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Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

• TMWNN 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  • mvdtnz 2mo ago
    It's difficult to imagine lower quality comments. If you asked an AI to generate the lowest quality, most content-free comment thread possible I doubt it could rival the quality of comments on that website.
    • solenoid0937 2mo ago
      Reddit is an incredibly easy website to bot/psyop, especially if you have older accounts.
    • gpt5 2mo ago
      To be fair, it doesn't seem like the post here is attracting high quality and thoughtful comments either.
      • DarmokTanagra 2mo ago
        YC has an obnoxious habit of putting itself above other social networks when in reality its just a haven for spoiled little boys who were constantly told how smart they are and grew up into entitled assholes who think they are better than everyone because they can write some code.
        • bamboozled 2mo ago
          Trump supporter ?
          • DarmokTanagra 2mo ago
            I’m not even American, I guess I also forgot to say that YC users politicize everything in the most banal way possible.
      • blooalien 2mo ago
        > ... attracting high quality and thoughtful comments either. Sadly, U.S. politics doesn't attract high-quality thought in general (especially in more recent years), so any discussion surrounding our little three-ring circus cult here isn't likely to be much better than the subject matter bein' discussed. It's all just too crazy to base any sane discussion around.
• ElProlactin 2mo ago
  Art of the deal strikes again.
  • conartist6 2mo ago
    Very good yesterday, very bad today. I understand completely why nations are not eager to bargain with a petulant child
    • epolanski 2mo ago
      The problem is more long lasting. The world cannot accommodate 180 degree turns every 4 years in Washington. So anybody that will follow, regardless of the person's policies won't matter fully, as that person itself will be replaced 4-8 years later.
      • toast0 2mo ago
        At least the timing of the turns is predictable... I imagine working with countries with snap elections is harder, especially when they have trouble forming a government.
        • epolanski 2mo ago
          No, why would that be? That's the reality of most mature democracies from UK to Germany to Italy. If anything, that makes change slower and based on coalition consensus, not a single winner-take-all individual mood. Which means that there isn't much to "work" as previous arrangements keep holding and they hardly change. I would never exchange our democracy for a king electing one like in US, Turkey or Russia. I'd rather have our democracies slower, the governments more unstable, but representative.
          • com 2mo ago
            Deliberative and hopefully self-stabilising. Real directional change happens over the span of a decade, not a few months. All arms of government (including non-kingship executive) brought to a rough consensus of choice and consequences.
• sandworm101 2mo ago
  It is a good thing canadians are so nice. Dropping US alcohol is a tiny thing compared to some of the weapons canada might deploy. Look at all the back-and-forth deals in recent years and you will see an exemption for oil and potash. Think gas prices are high now? See what happens if canada starts shipping less crude. Think food prices are high? See what happens when there is no fertilizer because canada has restricted potash exports. And what will make Musk's head explode: canada is starting to allow cheap chinese EVs into north america. Canadians will be driving them around the US very soon. https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/dispatches/how-to-secure-the-flow-of-fertilizers-lets-talk-about-potash/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/dispatches/how-to-secure-the... > US mines produce roughly 500,000 metric tons of potash per year, only about 8 percent of the 5.9 million metric tons of apparent annual US consumption. The remaining demand is met through imports, producing a net import reliance of about 92 percent. Reflecting the high concentration of global potash production, most of that supply comes from Canada (79 percent), with smaller volumes from Russia (12 percent) and other producers (9 percent) including Israel.
  • thijson 2mo ago
    It's a slow moving train wreck. I hope the consequences of these petulant actions scar the minds of voters for years to come. We're seeing the yield on treasuries creeping up, I think that's one of the consequences.
  • thangalin 2mo ago
    The sentiment here is that nobody wants U.S. citizens to be negatively impacted by trade restrictions or tariffs. We are figuratively and, in many cases, literally friends and family. (Aside, even if our provincial governments allow southern booze back on shelves, it'll stay there.) It would be decidedly un-Canadian to leverage electricity, potash, or other commodities necessary for survival in trade negotiations -- despite what Ford may suggest. We're nice, but we won't bow to bullies. Elbows up, eh!
    • benj111 2mo ago
      You do realise it's the citizens that voted trump in? And you don't have to ban them, just make them more expensive. Your US brethren did vote for tarriffs. With that comes higher prices.
• woggy 2mo ago
  Meanwhile Trump is pushing to rekindle his love affair with Kim Jong Un.
• juliusceasar 2mo ago
  Meanwhile Israel is sucking USA empty and they call out Canada for being not "fair". What a sick people.
  • lemoncookiechip 2mo ago
    Someone has to fund Israel's universal healthcare.
    • throwaway384638 2mo ago
      [flagged]
      • exceptione 2mo ago
        Please switch off Fox News and fetch real world updates. Europe's dependence and weapon system fragmentation is by USA design; Europe has allowed the US to have this advantage as part of the security architecture, alongside other goodwill handed to the US. Europe is rapidly rearming while the American mil. complex is throwing tantrums, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
• tancop 2mo ago
  There's a good opportunity to use that tariff money and subsidize critical exports to everywhere but USA. Europe gets cheaper minerals and Trump gets left begging China for scraps at insane prices. If you want political gestures then impose heavy sanctions on Israel and declare that Latinos can get refugee status in Canada because of ICE. That would be an economic win too.
  • bluealienpie 2mo ago
    But the Canadian government wants to be the 51st state. They have rapidly defunded social services, expanded fossil fuels and will adopt US style militarization. In fact, purchasing those munitions from the only country that has threatened to take it over.
    • jleyank 2mo ago
      Sweden? Germany? Last two defense contracts negotiations…
• metalman 2mo ago
  People here in Canada have not been sitting still. It is a truely fantastic oportunity, it's almost like 10% of the US market was suddenly transported to another country for free, and all we have to do is fill it.
  • spwa4 2mo ago
    Prepare the distilleries ...
• MrSkelter 2mo ago
  You cannot negotiate with a country that doesn’t stand by its word. All other issues aside, Trump and the Republicans love to boast that they aren’t bound by anything including their own promises. This is the end result of that. You’d be mad to cut a deal with the US right now. The Trump Admin will just try to take another bite. They are dishonest and unreliable. Making America’s word mean nothing is the greatest long term damage done to the country and the surest indicator of the end of the American Century (80 years but we can round up)
  • Haven880 2mo ago
    It has to do with how America politically structured. The trade nego change every 1-2 terms. China is much more consistent in this, and will scrap all markets from America in the long term. I simply dont see America able to force a Plaza Accord out of this. Japan fizzled because of that. But China wont. And China now backed by Russia, world powerhouse of fossil and minerals. Russia has way more natural reserve than what Venezuela America and Middle East officially published.
    • bamboozled 2mo ago
      If China is backed by Russia then they are properly fucked.
• llm_nerd 2mo ago
  Importantly Canada has committed to matching every American tariff dollar for dollar, which the US already considers unfathomable. Greer repeatedly cites that only Canada and China retaliated, which is such a weird criticism. Is he intending to compliment us? So expect Trump to start spiralling. Also expect lots of astroturfing about how desperate Canada is and that it has no choice (one of those hilarious slop purveyors appeared below). Canada should begin the process of withdrawing from USMCA, and the truth is that NAFTA cum USMCA has worsened Canada's lot over the past four decades compared to peers. Trade agreements with the US are worthless, and even negotiating with that Epstein pedo cabal of grifters is useless. It sounds like the Canadian team were foolishly going to give in to many things (any concession of any form always comes back to hurt you), but at the last minute Howard "Epstein Island" Nutlick swooped in and tried to extract even more, undoing it all. Which...thank you Nutlick, you disgusting greaseball. You did us a great favour.
  • jleyank 2mo ago
    CUsMA might be convenient re Mexico. They can consider withdrawal once a bilateral deal is reached.
  • howmayiannoyyou 2mo ago
    Please have a look at the actual flow of trade between CAD and USA, and its components. The impact is nothing like what you suggest for the US. Canada can bend the knee to Trump, or it must gut its policies on natural resources and become an extractive economy similar to Russia pre-Ukraine war. There's no other option for Canadians and time is not on their side.
    • kannanvijayan 2mo ago
      The direct impact of the Canadian economy on the US one is small, but thankfully for Canada the broader economic reality is that the US isn't picking a fight just with Canada. America is creating a lot of messes for itself around the world. The effects of any Canadian retaliation will not be felt in isolation. Carney internally is playing to a domestic crowd that is actually more hardline on US trade policy than he has projected. The issue with "bending the knee" so to speak is that the hardship is just as bad as the no deal situation, except with the worse outcome that Canada's future prospects for diversification are diminished. There is hardship down both paths for Canada, but only one of those paths has a long-term future. You're right that it likely involves a heavier investment in our own resource extraction, but that seems to be precisely what Carney is moving towards. As for the amusing side-quip about Russia, chances are Canadians will likely look to emulate some other resource-extractive based economies, like the nordics. The issue is less the extraction and more how the wealth from that extraction gets hoarded. And there too, it would manifest as the need to move away from the American/Russian model of a small set of simple-minded, deranged oligarchs siphoning all the wealth in the economy towards themselves.
• metalman 2mo ago
  People here in Canada have not been sitting still. It is a truely fantastic oportunity, it's almost like 10% of the US market was suddenly transported to another country for free, and all we have to do is fill it.
  • bulbar 2mo ago
    Canada and EU tightening their relation, pretty sure there are a lot agreements in the making. Will be great for both and appreciated by the people living in EU (and surely Canada as well).
    • seydor 2mo ago
      The EU is definitely dragging its feet believing that Trump will go away and "normality" will return.
      • chadgpt3 2mo ago
        The EU can't understand anything except normality, we see it on all kinds of issues.
      • bulbar 2mo ago
        EU is already adopting. They are slow (that's a given anyway because of its size), but they are not stupid. It also opens up a lot of opportunities, everybody's right now loosening their bonds with the US.
    • llm_nerd 2mo ago
      A lot of it has been half-hearted. Basically "wait out this loser and everything will go back to the way it was". A lot of Americans are leaning on this as well. Like over the last year we (Canada) should have utterly obliterated the US from any element of the Canadian supply chain. Instead everyone just keeps expecting things to return to normal so no one makes the necessary investments to stop it at the border. Americans voted for Trump, a child-rapist stunningly stupid criminal, twice. It should never return to the way it was.
• Phelinofist 2mo ago
  Good for Canada, quite a shame the EU folded so easily
  • linohh 2mo ago
    He'll be nullifying any agreement within two or three tantrums anyway, eventually we will learn and retaliate.
    • lukan 2mo ago
      And maybe the US will learn again, that a great deal is something that people can rely on?
      • llm_nerd 2mo ago
        Trump believes everything on this planet is zero sum, and the only way you can benefit is if the other party hurts. His entire history on this planet betrays this, where he is an unreliable scumbag to everyone he has ever dealt with, to the point where the guy couldn't find vendors or a bank outside of Russia to deal with him. And then Americans said "this is the guy we should put in charge". It is a particularly interesting position when the US is trying to counter China. The only hope the US had was an alliances with other Western-style nations, but instead it has been nothing but attacks and diminishing.
        • lukan 2mo ago
          "The only hope the US had was an alliances with other Western-style nations" Maybe Trump bets on his great relations with Putin and Kim instead.
        • __s 2mo ago
          If only things were zero sum stick-in-bicycle meme decision making would benefit others
        • pjc50 2mo ago
          > It is a particularly interesting position when the US is trying to counter China. The US put countering China way behind on its priority list, below "owning the libs" and settling old scores. I am convinced that if the Iran decapitation had worked like Venezuela, which seems to have been what they expected, then Cuba would have been next.
• nchmy 2mo ago
  Nice to see them putting up a fight. Though I assume this will cause pain for everyone. One note: aren't these sentences strange - like a series of half-thoughts? Especially the 2nd paragraph. > Our government understood, before many, that America is altering all its trade relationships. Putting tariffs on its closest allies and charging for access to its vast market. > > We have worked in that context. To strike a fair deal that would provide the best access to the U.S. market and greater certainty to Canadian businesses and workers.
  • epgui 2mo ago
    No, it’s just written as speech.
  • DiogenesKynikos 2mo ago
    It's a transcription of a spoken speech. The periods between connected clauses are just where Mark Carney paused for a moment.
    • nchmy 2mo ago
      Ah! I was not aware that it was a transcription. Yes, I had the thought that it sounded a lot like speech. Thanks.
    • jappgar 2mo ago
      Still. Many of those periods. Should be commas.
  • tgsovlerkhgsel 2mo ago
    > Though I assume this will cause pain for everyone. Yes, but the pain is likely unavoidable. The alternative is much more pain, but slightly later/more spread out, from repeatedly giving in.
    • nchmy 2mo ago
      Yeah, quite likely. It is surely for the best to stand up
• jarym 2mo ago
  Seems like the only thing more expensive and damaging these days than being an enemy of the US is being an ally! Wonder how long it’ll be before Trump throws his toys out the pram again. Wouldn’t be surprised if he moans his allies have abandoned him.
  • throwaway85825 2mo ago
    Canada is the kind of ally that sends a chinese spy to NATO headquarters. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwymk20n0v7o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwymk20n0v7o
    • dragon-hn 2mo ago
      If we want to be ridiculous, should we talk about Trump sharing intelligence with Russians, causing American allies to limit intelligence sharing?
      • throwaway85825 2mo ago
        Can you cite what intelligence was shared?
• draw_down 2mo ago
  [dead]
• jleyank 2mo ago
  Note that these new tariffs are on goods covered by CUSMA, making that treaty inoperative. Pity it’s one Trump signed… One must stand up to bullies otherwise they’ll keep at it. Until the US population feels the pain the rest of the world has been dealing with, nothing will change.
  • K0balt 2mo ago
    Oh, we’re feeling the pain. Anyone trying to actually build things in the USA relies on an increasingly unpredictable and expensive global supply chain. What he’s been doing is only good for his grift game, not the USA. If you want to bring manufacturing home, you frame a 5-10 year progressive tariff plan with tax incentives, financing, and grants to help build the infrastructure to progressively fill the demand as the tariffs roll in. Commerce thrives in stable environments with predictable changes, not in chaos and broken promises.
    • howmayiannoyyou 2mo ago
      False. I'm in the trenches on the cross-border trade and issue in general every weekday. Investment, industrial production and migration of CAD businesses to the US is rapidly growing. Nothing Canada can do will reverse this, though several storms on the horizon unrelated to Canada could slow it.
    • Waterluvian 2mo ago
      I’m curious just how much pain and abuse Americans need to feel before they do something about it. So far it seems to be record-setting.
      • sanderjd 2mo ago
        What do you mean by "do something about it"? The elections are in November and the new Congress will be seated a few months later. Our system progresses in two year increments, by design.
        • 2mo ago
• shevy-java 2mo ago
  Trump tries to betray Canadians here. When you make negotiations and then at the last second try to worsen the terms, you are not acting in good faith. This is a consistent theme with Trump: he wants to take advantage of you. This is a de-facto mafia system. The "art of the deal" is the mafia way. You can see this with Iran too - Trump negotiates, then attacks. Then fake-negotiates, attacks again (and loses anyway). The guy is a problem for the whole world.
  • seydor 2mo ago
    Trump attacked iran in the middle of negotiations. It's probably a pattern from the salesmen book he didn't even write.
  • II2II 2mo ago
    That should read, Trump betrays Americans. The reality is that he is destroying American credibility on the international stage, which is going to have long term effects on their ability to make agreements with other countries in the future. Standing alone is not in the interest of any nation. As for betraying Canadians, Trump is not responsible for representing Canadian interests. I wouldn't want him to either. (Speaking as a Canadian.)
  • metabagel 2mo ago
    He would run a child's lemonade stand into the ground.
• mrleinad 2mo ago
  King Charles should just leave the American continent.
  • pluc 2mo ago
    Bad analogy if you're Canadian
  • 7373737373 2mo ago
    It's ironic that the US might currently do better with a (constitutional monarchy) king, to serve as an ethical example of living and governance, and change the role of the president to more of a serving bureaucrat
    • dataviz1000 2mo ago
      Have you read John Steinbeck's "The Short Reign of Pippin IV?" [0] All political sides in France frustrated decide to create a constitutional monarchy. The Communists supported the idea because it would give everyone something to revolt against. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Short_Reign_of_Pippin_IV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Short_Reign_of_Pippin_IV
    • simonh 2mo ago
      In the UK we've been lucky with our royalty recently, but with a different roll of the genetic dice we'd have Randy Andy as king instead of Charles. Anyway, you have kings, you just elect them and call the presidents, but they have basically the same political role and powers as George III did in the 1790s cut-and-pasted across. The USA needs to get itself a decent parliamentary system.
      • carlosjobim 2mo ago
        > decent parliamentary system. Isn't that an oxymoron? Parliaments have their democratic shortcomings compared to powerful presidents. And vice-versa. Nations with parliamentary rule are plagued by having heads of state and ministers which weren't in any way, shape, or form elected by the population. A president is at least a democratically elected ruler to represent the people.
• badgersnake 2mo ago
  Don’t forget, it’s the longest land border in the world, largely remote. Feels like it would be easy to work around with minimal effort.
  • MattGaiser 2mo ago
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/04/trump-tariffs-smugglers/682303/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/04/trump-tari...
  • gucci-on-fleek 2mo ago
    Sure, it would be pretty easy to smuggle small, high-value items, but most of the trade volume is in large items like lumber, steel/aluminum, new vehicles, and potash, and it's pretty hard to sneak a dozen 18-wheelers across the border a day. Electricity and oil are also pretty common exports, but those are even harder to smuggle since they go across in fixed wires/pipelines.
• mhandley 2mo ago
  I wonder what would happen if Canada taxed electricity exports to the US, and used the money to directly subsidize other exported goods the US applies tariffs to?
  • jleyank 2mo ago
    Harsh, but same for oil and potash. Other minerals too.
    • Pxtl 2mo ago
      Oil and potash are made in provinces that have had their voter bases successfully propagandized by US Republican interests. They refused to get on-side at a political level.
      • THX1137 2mo ago
        Yeah, but export taxes are a federal responsibility. The fact that these provinces are irrelevant for the Liberals politically is those provinces' exact liability here.
        • cmrdporcupine 2mo ago
          If there's any way to swing the "referendum" in October in a very bad direction it would be to do this. Right now Alberta and Saskatchewan are not suffering at all (2% of exports affected) from Trump's tariffs. This is by design. He (or the "smarter" people he surrounds himself with) is attempting to drive a wedge in Canadian unity. Danielle Smith is, btw, totally onside with playing this to her advantage to get things. Export tax, as just as it might be in these circumstances, would be used as pretext for wholesale foreign interference and domestic disruption on a level we have never seen in this country. It would end up being a profound self-own
          • THX1137 2mo ago
            The referendum is a hypothetical while federal power is real and spelled out in the constitution. All I hear about Alberta and Saskatchewan's leverage is that we ought to fear their willingness to invite a foreign power to dismember Canada. It certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
• candlemas 2mo ago
  "However, last-minute changes in the U.S. proposed terms were unfair, uneconomic, and called into question the reliability of any deal." It seems like if the other side agrees to a deal too easily then Trump doesn't think the deal is good enough. He only likes deals where the other side is getting screwed and has to be coerced into signing.
  • scotty79 2mo ago
    > It seems like if the other side agrees to a deal too easily then Trump doesn't think the deal is good enough. That's a great observation. So basically everybody should be saying no to him all the time to limit the damage because as long as there's one yes the stupidity will only grow. I'm so glad there wasn't a single yes, when Greenland popped up.
• Gabrys1 2mo ago
  I think a retaliation for a tariff should be an export tax. Let's say Canada puts a 50% export tax on maple syrup unless the car tariff is withheld
  • unsupp0rted 2mo ago
    What's wrong with Vermont maple syrup?
    • Gabrys1 2mo ago
      I don't know, maybe there's not enough of it? > Canada supplies the overwhelming majority of U.S. maple-syrup imports.
      • Gabrys1 2mo ago
        Oh, also add a note on the bottle that this higher price is thanks to your beloved Trump. Canadians are way too nice to do this, but it would be sensational.
        • Hugsbox 2mo ago
          You may underestimate just how petty we can be.
          • Gabrys1 2mo ago
            anecdata and tribal knowledge tells me there are no mean Canadians
    • threetonesun 2mo ago
      Nothing, but they don’t make enough. Unless it claims to be 100% Vermont it’s likely blended with Canadian or entirely Canadian maple syrup.
      • raddan 2mo ago
• ModernMech 2mo ago
  Amazing that in 2026 Canada, Iran, and US Circuit Courts have the same stance: the US federal government cannot be trusted to tell the truth about anything. Fish really rots from the head.
• fidotron 2mo ago
  This was totally the right move, if for no other reason than it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run. Being in Canada though this does look v. short sighted of the US. All this is going to achieve is pushing Canada much closer to other countries, particularly China, which at least superficially these negotiations were meant to prevent.
  • spiderfarmer 2mo ago
    > it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run They don't respect anything. They stand for nothing. Their only concern is to pay lip service to Trump's crazy ideas.
    • dgellow 2mo ago
      They stand for Project 2025 and the Maralago Accord, and the ideology behind them. So far they followed both projects quite closely. Trump is a tool they have to manage to reach their goals Also, of course, extracting as much money from the state as possible
      • JKCalhoun 2mo ago
        Had to look up "Maralago Accord": https://marketwise.com/investing/what-is-the-mar-a-lago-accord/ https://marketwise.com/investing/what-is-the-mar-a-lago-acco... Wow, a global Great Depression II really does look like it is in the cards.
        • spiderfarmer 2mo ago
          Those people always assume like the US can do stuff in a vacuum. And they always underestimate how smart other economies will respond to the chaos. Most big economies are in a better position than the USA.
        • dgellow 2mo ago
          FWIW it’s what Vance has been hinting at multiple times in recent public statements, and what Bessents seems to be following
• somarugaberthol 2mo ago
  Reciprocity, if well designed, automatic and generalized, is a great diplomacy tool. Politicians tend to not want to do things that display them as directly responsible for eroding their support base’s quality of life.
• drgo 2mo ago
  The Art of the Lose-Lose Deal!
• Aboutplants 2mo ago
  I’m interested to see if this spurs other countries to push back on this administration. Once you get a couple of countries to collectively stand firm is when things take a turn. Bullies can only push for so long
  • bhouston 2mo ago
    What Canada is doing is turning to trade with other countries. It is the main solution we have to this issue. It is a long game, but necessary. Ganging up on the US isn't likely to work well.
    • foogazi 2mo ago
      Because the US is such a good market at some point “caving” makes it a good deal
      • win311fwg 2mo ago
        The trade deficit is what allows the US market to be a good market. If the US was closer to trade neutral or with a surplus it would be consuming considerably less and thus wouldn't be good anymore. Tough situation for other countries as if they don't agree then they can't access the market, but if they do agree to close the trade gap they'll decimate the market. The best option for them right now remains to withdraw from the market to the extent they must and hope things turn around soon so that things can go back to normal. The decimation option doesn't have a path to return to how things were and all they'll be left with is a bad market.
      • gmerc 2mo ago
        Sovereignty is not for sale
    • make3 2mo ago
      it's also just waiting for Trump to be less powerful & making sure a bad precedent is not established, which is a good idea
  • seydor 2mo ago
• robmccoll 2mo ago
  Huh 30% of our lumber just got 50% more expensive. Good thing we don't have shortages of affordable housing that need new construction to solve. Brilliant stuff Donald. Truly some 4D chess moves.
  • watutalkinbout 2mo ago
    You still think any of his moves are driven by 'what's good for the US'? I think it's motivated entirely by schemes to stuff his pockets with money.
    • rapnie 2mo ago
      He's just running a kleptocracy, and doing so reasonably well.
      • rjzzleep 2mo ago
        People still happily buy his tokens though, and then blame China for getting scammed.
        • bdangubic 2mo ago
          Not China’s fault but Biden’s :)
          • deleted 2mo ago
            [deleted]
      • trueno 2mo ago
        indeed. i'm sure he's surrounded by some lumber moguls stateside that are going to get very rich from this. very russia coded. i don't doubt deregulation on clearcutting as well as removing land ownership and no logging in national forests & protected lands.... are around the corner with this admin. feel like they attempted that during his last term with attempting to disgrace park rangers over wildfires and saying they didn't rake the leaves on the ground or whatever.
• seydor 2mo ago
  Just at the right time when China is looking to expand its exports. People said that Trump was Putin's stooge, but he might have been Xi's. I'm concerned that governments worldwide are finding tarrifs to be a popular (and exciting!) way to exorbitantly increase the size of governments and goverment coffers which are then used for populist aims. We need to re-educate people that tarrifs are bad.
  • LeBit 2mo ago
    You think the tarrifs proceeds are going in the government coffers? Trump is officially billions richer since he became president for a second term. Officially.
    • timbit42 2mo ago
      They said, 'governments worldwide'.
• cmiles8 2mo ago
  Its nice to see some backbone, but the challenge for Canada is that it’s broadly in a weak negotiating position here. Generally speaking Canadian companies need access to the US market a lot more than US companies need access to the Canadian market.
  • dennis_jeeves2 2mo ago
    >Canada is that it’s broadly in a weak negotiating position here. That's an understatement. Hypothetically if Canada were isolated from the world, it would regress in the quality of life in 10 years. The most capable Canadians have moved out, mostly to the US. The average Canadian has unwarranted sense of nationalistic pride about them (compared to their neighbors). Isolate US from the world, and assuming that the govt does not meddle too much with local businesses, in 10 years they will bounce back to being more self sufficient than it is now.
    • poncho_romero 2mo ago
      This is a useless hypothetical. Almost every country would regress in quality of life if it were suddenly cut off from the global economy. The options aren’t a bad deal from the US or complete isolation. Canada is making deals with reliable partners abroad.
    • THX1137 2mo ago
      By definition if you isolate a country from the world it would be more self sufficient that very moment than it is the moment before it is isolated. Isn't that obvious?
      • dennis_jeeves2 2mo ago
        Agreed self-sufficiency isn't the best term. But if I were to rephrase it, let say that self-sufficiency in terms of the quality of life - US would be in much better shape than Canada. Canada has _significantly_ much more to lose than the US.
        • 2mo ago
• andy_ppp 2mo ago
  Can the US even afford a trade war, they are beginning to find borrowing more money increasingly difficult… currently the debt is around $130k for every man, woman and child in the US.
  • cmiles8 2mo ago
    More difficult is a relative term. More difficult but still easier than other countries so the US remains in a stronger position here. The US can sustain the mess a lot longer than most countries can survive it.
    • diego_moita 2mo ago
      > is a relative term More "relative" than you think. Look at the wars the US fought after WWII: Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. The US suffered a lot less pain than any of those countries and was in a lot stronger position. But those countries were willing to face the pain, the US wasn't. That's why the US lost those wars. The same pattern goes now with Iran. You kill people on those countries, those countries hurt the American voters in their pockets. In trade wars it might be the same mechanism. For the American people, a trade war is mostly to follow the glorious orange leader. For Canadians it is a matter of national sovereignty.
  • Schiendelman 2mo ago
    Gross debt to GDP ratio in the US has fallen from 130% in 2021 to under 125% now. It'll likely tick back up closer to 130, but it's been relatively flat. Economic growth and inflation have kept pace with gross debt for a long time, and if the US continues to stay on top of the tech industry, the raw numbers will likely continue not to matter.
    • lossolo 2mo ago
      > Gross debt to GDP ratio in the US has fallen from 130% in 2021 to under 125% now. Most of that was inflation, so it hurts U.S. citizens. I mean, you could reduce it even further pretty easily, but I'm not sure you would want to pay $1,000+ for a Big Mac.
• locallost 2mo ago
  I think Trump is severely misreading his position in the world. It's not April 2025 anymore. There will be consequences for everyone, but I am not sure his own party will support him through this in an election year. Especially now as the last time he publicly stated he backed down because if rising bond yields, which is actually happening already before any trade war. Is he really going to start another one, already in deep trouble because of the mess he made in Iran. I think he will cave pretty quickly and Canada knows it.
  • sanderjd 2mo ago
    I think they'll support him through the election. If the election goes as bad as it seems likely to, that might upset the apple cart. But it's also possible that it won't, and the Republican party will just be an empty discredited husk when Trump leaves the stage a couple years later.
• bradley13 2mo ago
  This is the way. If the US imposes tariffs, impose tariffs on US goods. The US administration twists facts to suit their agenda. For example, they often complain about the trade deficit the US has with other countries. However, that deficit often (depends on the country) only exists if you exclude digital goods (Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc.). If the rest of the world were to restrict the import of those digital goods, in the interest of fairness, the tech lobbyists would swarm D.C. in panic.
  • peterbecich 2mo ago
    Agreeing with your larger point but on the other hand, Trump-voting districts with older industries probably have trade deficits, both with other American districts and especially internationally.
    • angulardragon03 2mo ago
      Yeah but this is the point, right? The guy thinks the US is still living in an era before it became a massive service economy
      • peterbecich 2mo ago
        I agree it is the point, but it is not the end of the story. These districts will continue to vote for Trump-like candidates until their situation improves, I predict.
  • luckyjajj 2mo ago
    Ironically Canada’s trade deficit with the USA is largely due to our oil exports. Remove that the trade is fairly balanced.
    • carefulfungi 2mo ago
      Why is this ironic? I see this point a lot but don’t understand the underlying reasoning for why it is a meaningful rebuttal? It’s insane that the US administration (said as an American) doesn’t continue to treasure a values-aligned, peaceful, stable, independent neighbor along a massive unprotected border. But I don’t understand this energy carve-out argument.
• xyzelement 2mo ago
  I have not been following the Canada thing but generally have been learning more about trade and Trump's approach seems less chaotic and random than is talked about. US's largest trading partner is Mexico. The biggest thing we import from them is automobiles & auto-parts and the second largest is computers and electronics. We all understand the benefits of trade is meant to bring in - such as goods manufactured by countries whose prowess making those goods better to the benefit of all. So it's interesting to look at this example. Automobiles - does Mexico have a prowess in that segment? A tell tale sign of "no" is that Mexico has no domestic auto brand. In other words 100% of auto exports from Mexico is actually US automaker production that shifted to Mexico is persuit of cheaper labor, weaker unions, and less environmental and other regulations that gets in the way of manufacturing. I am focusing on this example because it's the largest segment of our trade with our largest partner - literally the biggest thing the US imports is our own shifted auto production. The second largest segment is also interesting. Mexico isn't known for its computer and electronics brands either. What's going on? Turns out that Asian manufacturers (eg Lenovo) do the very final assembly in Mexico but all the components come from Asia. It's not actually "efficient" to do this except that when assembly happens in Mexico those components magically become a "north American good" by NAFTA terms and can go all over US and Canada with no duties or tarrifs or restrictions. So the second largest segment with our largest trading partner is Asian manufacturers exploiting a NAFTA loophole. As an American who inherently is pro trade (I am an MBA...) this is revealing about the obvious disadvantages of how trade has been configured. The auto example is literally NAFTA being used to bypass American labor laws and environmental regulations while maintaining access to our market by American companies themselves. The electronics example is Asian companies bypassing the long standing trade conditions by whitewashing Asian products as north American goods. It is obvious that trade pre-Trump was not set up in a smart way from American perspective. The auto is a great example: the government simultaneously made it very hard and expensive to manufacture at home, and very easy to shift to Mexico. I don't know the details with Canada as much but I no longer assume things were working great and US is meddling lens by default.
  • II2II 2mo ago
    Canada doesn't have domestic auto companies, yet we manufacture auto parts and assemble automobiles destined for the US. From my understanding, this was negotiated as part of the trade deals. There is no good reason for them to desire cheap Canadian labour, weak Canadian unions, or weak Canadian environmental regulations. For one thing, Canada is known for none of those things. On the other hand, Canada had a lot of things the US wanted: access to the Canadian market and access to Canadian resources. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened when trade deals were manufactured with Mexico. While Mexico isn't on the same economic tier as the US, it isn't a third world nation that people like to paint it as. As for companies looking for loopholes, it may be fun to blame it on Asian manufacturers. I would suggest that Americans take a good long look in the mirror. US companies were outsourcing assembly to Mexico long before Mexico came under the NAFTA umbrella. Quite often, at least with electronics, those US companies were using parts manufactured in Asia. Should Asian companies hold themselves back, should they avoid using the same practices as their American counterparts, just because it isn't fair to Americans? If anything, they have less reason to because Asian countries are responsible to their own citizens, not to Americans.
• hmokiguess 2mo ago
  True North, Strong and Free
• pluc 2mo ago
  Carney had to take a stand, the last few moves he pulled angered a lot of people. For example he started talking about asking the provinces to put US booze back on the shelves which for us who boycotted prior to the govt saying it was a good idea, is giving up our leverage before any demands were acquiesced. He's playing the same song with the digital media tax and even with the case that made Meta forego all Canadian news outlets. Basically he was elected to stand up to Trump and as an economist, come up with a strategy. He initially appeared to do that, but given that it largely hasn't swayed Trump, he is now backing off most of it. You could argue it's a strategy worth trying since to buck-for-buck hasn't worked, but you could also make the point that the electorate, without being told what the plan is (duh), feels he is weakening our position. A lot of the strategy has been to wait it out and expect uproar from the US people which... largely hasn't come.. yet?
  • radford-neal 2mo ago
    If a bear is rampaging around your campsite do you think you have to "take a stand"? This isn't some sort of status game. Well, maybe it is for Trump, but not for anyone who's not an idiot. Unfortunately, Carney is an idiot, and is in it for himself and his friends, not Canada. The way to deal with the bear to the south is to first get rid of all the stupid stuff that is bad for Canadians regardless of Trump, like provincial liquor monopolies and dairy supply management. Don't ask for anything in return - Trump's word is no good anyway - but it may help with public opinion in the US. It will also help with better trade relations with other countries. After getting these other countries to open up as much as they're inclined, unilaterally eliminate tariffs on all countries (including the US). It's what's best for Canadians, apart from a few who profit off the lack of competition from other countries. For bonus points, get rid of sales taxes, so there is zero friction importing things to Canada. That's great for consumers, and also great for any business that wants to continue or establish itself in Canada.
    • sanderjd 2mo ago
      I don't understand your point about public opinion in the US. Public opinion here is already strongly against Trump and his foolish tariff policy. Most people here do not want to see Canada acquiesce to "the bear". It only prolongs the madness.
• kjellsbells 2mo ago
  If Alice and Bob strike a deal then Alice must be confident that an acceptable subset of her interests are met and that Bob will stick to the deal. If Bob shows evidence of not sticking to deals, there's little point in Alice striking any deal.
  • dennis_jeeves2 2mo ago
    [flagged]
• howmayiannoyyou 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  • llm_nerd 2mo ago
    Is this some sort of weird AI slop? Like, what even is this nonsense? "~70% of Canadian exports go to the US" If you remove oil[1], Canada has a trade deficit with the US. And strangely the US has never said an iota about tariffing or restricting oil, and on the contrary keeps trying to increase it. Like Trump's big celebration was about hoping to revive a pipeline. The vast majority of Canada's economy is internal, and rapidly non-US. We replace what we buy from the US. Somehow lots of countries on this planet don't rely upon being a subjugated feeder to the US. >Unemployment, business investment, and the CAD are all deteriorating far more deeply and rapidly than any impact on the USA Canada has fielded better employment numbers than the US. Business investments are at an all time high (lol, slop purveyor now claims that actually no, that's bad too!). The CAD has been gaining over the past few weeks. Stop writing hilariously stupid slop on here. [1] The US actually makes hundreds of billions of dollars processing and exporting Canadian oil, and it was yet another foolish decision of Canada not to process in country. But don't worry, exports to other destinations are rapidly increasing.
    • cindyllm 2mo ago
      [dead]
    • howmayiannoyyou 2mo ago
      Why would you remove oil? And, Canada is emphatically NOT a internal economy. First, it imports most of its cars, industrial machinery and hardware. Second, its experiencing an FDI flood due to M&A activity that has key business being acquired and then relocated or repositioned to supply the US market.
    • sanderjd 2mo ago
      I'm fairly certain it's AI, yeah. Downvote and move on.
  • jappgar 2mo ago
• deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
• klm127 2mo ago
  These tariffs will be struck down as unconstitutional just like the ones Trump attempted under the IEEPA were. Any company who paid in the meanwhile will be compensated while consumers will get the short end, so it will be a nice payday for northern importers. It's Congress who has the power to tax. If Trump wants tariffs he needs to propose a bill that creates them or gives him clear powers. The legal scholars in his cabinet know this, so why has he not proposed a bill?
  • goodluckchuck 2mo ago
    Regardless of our different readings of the SCOTUS’s recent opinion, statutes are a poor process for imposing tariffs. The legislative process is intentionally slow and difficult. It’s suited to permanent laws, not diplomacy and negotiations.
    • sanderjd 2mo ago
      There is no reason for tariff policy to be made quickly. Indeed, it would be much more effective if it could change only very slowly, because any positive effects tariffs may have rely on businesses having certainty when making decisions with multi year horizons. Only a fool would make a decision about where to build a new factory based on the Trump era of whim based tariff policy.
    • klm127 2mo ago
      Statutes can delegate the president tariff powers and appropriately circumscribe them, and that's what both the IEEPA and Trade Expansion Act did - they gave the executive tariff authority in certain circumstances. Trump is stretching the definition of those circumstances to the limit, in my opinion, especially because protectionism is the fundamental policy being pursued. If we want general protectionist tariffs than the law should be passed that enables the executive to do so, but that hasn't been forthcoming. How effective are tariffs as a trade negotiation tool if your counterparty believes its likely the courts will take away the big stick?
• jt2190 2mo ago
  For some perspective about what’s being negotiated: “What’s at stake in the Canada-U.S. trade deal? How looming tariffs could cost Canada 90,000 jobs”. Trevor Tombe, professor of economics at the University of Calgary https://thehub.ca/2026/08/20/whats-at-stake-in-the-canada-u-s-trade-deal-how-looming-tariffs-could-cost-canada-90000-jobs/ https://thehub.ca/2026/08/20/whats-at-stake-in-the-canada-u-...
• qwery 2mo ago
  Sounds like the right move. I can only hope that the rest of us lap dogs see the (common) sense. The USA is increasingly the source of economic and military destabliisation in the world and it's getting real hard to justify being the best little doggy for them. I'm not suggesting any action more drastic than calling a shit deal shit, and frankly it's pathetic and embarrassing that this is such a rare occurence. And yeah, maybe some miracle corrective action will begin with a new president but the thing is, that will necessarily include restoring our "special relationship". You're better off refusing a bad deal outright, rather than trying to reneg later.
• Bleedblood 2mo ago
  Everything you need to know about Canada is on a population density map.
  • morkalork 2mo ago
    That population density is highest in more temperate regions with the most arable and productive land?
  • THX1137 2mo ago
    You can get the same knowledge about every country via a population density map, incidentally!
• elmer2 2mo ago
  Good luck Canada. The economy is already pretty bad and they can't win a tariff war against their largest trading partner.
  • jappgar 2mo ago
    American can't win a shooting war in Afghanistan. It's not actually a strong country.
• A_D_E_P_T 2mo ago
  I get it, but tariffs will only make things more expensive for Canadians, too. I've got a better idea. 1) Repeal all DMCA-like laws. Make it explicitly legal to break a digital lock to repair a device, run custom code, install third-party parts, or just tinker and hack with your own devices and software. 2) Ban parts-pairing. Prohibit manufacturers (looking at you Apple & John Deere,) from using cryptographic serialization to block independent mechanics and technicians from swapping parts. 3) Legalize "Adversarial Interoperability" (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interoperability https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera...) 4) Copyright reform. That's it. This would make things cheaper and better for Canadians. Lutnick and Trump would seethe eternally, but it would be downright excellent for Canada and a shining beacon unto the world.
  • diego_moita 2mo ago
    > but tariffs will only make things more expensive for Canadians, too. Yes, there is no war without pain. But I am willing to face the pain. However, in the long run, the pain might bring good. It might help products from other countries to enter the Canadian market. I hope to see more food, cars and appliances from Latin America, Europe, Asia and Africa in the Canadian market. Elbows up, at last.
  • adverbly 2mo ago
    I love the concept. I'd be happy to see the solution to consumer pain And economic productivity to pass permanently pro productivity and pro consumer policies. Anti monopoly stuff. Maybe a growth policy like land value tax. I'd need to hear from some experts to know which specific policies would be best though. Ideally you choose some policies that are not perceived as going nuclear, or which leave open counters, or which you would want to remove after a deal is made. In general, going heavier into consumer/data protection laws and proceeding to prosecute both the Canadian and American monopolies would be amazing though.
    • A_D_E_P_T 2mo ago
      > In general, going heavier into consumer/data protection laws and proceeding to prosecute both the Canadian and American monopolies would be amazing though. IMO you don't want lawfare -- but rather you want to remove bad laws like the DMCA (and related), and the life-plus-70 copyright term, and thus foster more innovation and growth. It's easiest to repeal anti-consumer/anti-commons laws.
• iNerdier 2mo ago
  Reciprocal tariffs alone don’t make much sense, it’s just making things for Canadians more expensive with an adversary that’s larger and can sustain them longer (although how long remains to be seen with guilt yields rising.) If they really want to hurt them start making it legal to circumvent DRM on American products and allow build meaningful replacements.
  • jtrn 2mo ago
    If this was even close to true, why did basicly this exact same move work when china did it and when EU threatend to do the same before. And from a different angle: “giving fines to firms makes no sense since they firm can only get money from customers so it’s just going to make it more expensive for the customer”. Not an identical situatio, but to say it’s the only consequence, that it becomes more expensive for Canadian, is just not right.
  • diego_moita 2mo ago
    > Reciprocal tariffs alone don’t make much sense, In the short run, yes. In the long run we can start replacing American imports with other countries' imports. I want to see more fruits and vegetables from Mexico, Africa and South America in supermarkets. Give me less "Made in America" on shelves.
    • kasey_junk 2mo ago
      You’d have to tariff fruits and vegetables like crazy to make the American varieties more expensive than oceanic shipped produce. That seems a fairly steep price for the Canadian consumer. Which highlights the problems with tariffs, they are self harming. You have to be willing to give up better alternatives for some other reason, and food is a hard one.
      • diego_moita 2mo ago
        > You’d have to tariff fruits and vegetables like crazy to make the American varieties more expensive than oceanic shipped produce. Bullshit. I already see in the supermarket (Canadian Superstore) oranges from South Africa, lemons from Morocco, broccoli from Mexico, mangoes from Malaysia, fish from the Philippines, coconut from Vietnam, kiwis from Italy, etc. Yes, oceanic shipping adds to the cost. But most of those countries already have cheaper labor, and that partially offsets the extra cost.
• diego_moita 2mo ago
  YES! YES! Elbows up, finally! This is will be painful. But it is what we need. It is more than time for Canada to learn the lesson that Navajos, Comanches, Apache and Cherokees learned too late: Americans lie, cheat, betray and steal. We shouldn't be cozy with them.
• hereme888 2mo ago
  In 2025 there was a $46 billion trade deficit with Canada. The U.S. was already buying considerably more Canadian goods than Canada bought from it.
  • sigspec 2mo ago
    How do you expect to have a trade balance with a country that is 10% of your population.
    • hereme888 2mo ago
      How do you expect to have a trade deficit with a country that is 10% of your population?
  • sanderjd 2mo ago
    This reads like a non sequitur to me. What is your point?
    • hereme888 2mo ago
      Canada's (Carney's) framing is basically propaganda by omission.
      • sanderjd 2mo ago
        How so? Is the thing you accuse them of omitting this thing and the trade deficit? How is that relevant?
  • THX1137 2mo ago
    I've had a trade deficit with supermarkets my whole life. Not once has any one of them bought anything from me, yet I keep buying and buying...
    • hereme888 2mo ago
      How does that justify Canada openly lying?
• khriss 2mo ago
  The craziest thing is, that in spite of the obvious, balatant corruption and supreme incompetence of the US govt, Trump still has around 35% approval rating. That means the hardcore MAGA base is a third of the US population. I genuinely don't know how to reconcile that with the long term future of the United States.
  • Waterluvian 2mo ago
    Americans love to single out Trump, but he’s just a symptom of an epidemic of civic unfitness that is hollowing out the country. It underscores why the only correct move for the world is de-Americanization. Make them economically and militarily unnecessary and they might even be forced to once again behave correctly, even if out of necessity.
  • barbazoo 2mo ago
    That plus the 20% or so that don't care enough to vote.
    • Ylpertnodi 2mo ago
      Maybe the 20% don't want a fucking thing to do with the shitshow.
      • jjtwixman 2mo ago
        If you don't care enough about Trump to vote against him then you're at best a gigantic moron.
        • taskforcegemini 2mo ago
          people didn't like the candidates or politics the democrats pushed.
  • beej71 2mo ago
    As a constitutionalist American, I really wish I had an answer for you. The best I have is that two-thirds of the country thinks he's off-base. But I can only agree that's an alarming figure. It seems like a lot of the governmental structure of this country is predicated on the idea that the People will not elect someone who puts their own interests over those of the nation. And when we do, the whole thing starts to unravel.
• hereme888 2mo ago
  Total TDS meltdown in Silicon Valley members. It's like they can't help insult Trump and >50% of US voters any time they get a chance. No intellectual honesty for the fact that there's a large trade deficit with Canada, and facts are facts.
• g8oz 2mo ago
  In general any deal with the other party is introducing last minute changes is one to walk away from. And specifically any deal made with the U.S under Trump has no credibility, just ask Iran.
• sigspec 2mo ago
  I've always said that the only way Trump would "Make America Great" would be to show the world how completely hollowed out by kleptocrats we've become. These moves increase other countries independence of us, lessening our power and forcing us into a more post America world. If Trump isn't a double agent then he missed his calling. It feels like every decision they are making is intentionally the "wrong" one.
  • kilroy123 2mo ago
    The most ironic part for me is that he has probably now done more to push renewable energy than any other President.
• softwaredoug 2mo ago
  This is on targeted industries, not on 50% of all trade. In particular, the largest industries are Motor Vehicles, Alcohol, and Dairy per https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-of-us-trade-tariffs-hitti https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-of-us-trade-tariffs-hitti...
  • bix6 2mo ago
    Great dude thanks for defending the klepto king. Really important work you’re doing.
    • softwaredoug 2mo ago
      I’m not defending anything I’m trying to encourage people to understand the facts in a forum dedicated to intellectual discussion.
      • bix6 2mo ago
        [flagged]
  • giarc 2mo ago
    Motor vehicles is funny - tariff the vehicles owned by American companies (GM, Ford, Stellantis). I wonder how the CEOs of those companies react or communicate with the White House their feelings on this.
• luckyjajj 2mo ago
  Won’t work out well for either side, namely citizens and leadership aside. Wearing my forecasting hat… Canada holding $200 billion in USA treasuries, one of the largest exporters of oil into the USA, and integrated supply chains for everyday goods. A fast and painful price shock is coming for every average American. Canada has and will continue to be very dependent on the USA. No amount of new trade partners can change the fact that the largest economy in the world is a 2-hour trip down the road while everyone else is an ocean apart. This has a risk for long-term price pain for decades.
  • ActionHank 2mo ago
    Australian beef is cheaper than Canadian beef, in Canada, the ocean is not the obstacle.
    • luckyjajj 2mo ago
      I don’t know offhand what the price of beef is generally these days (I am a vegetarian). Generally speaking, capital and commerce steer towards efficiency. Goods from Australia will always be “less efficient” than goods crossing between Canada and the USA and Mexico due to geography. The only way to make up for that difference is if goods are dramatically cheaper to produce (i.e China) to make up for the geographical barriers. While it may work for beef, it can’t work for everything. So, Canada is generally stuck with the USA until it can find ways to export/import efficiently from other countries, and some things, like produce, can never work.
    • 8note 2mo ago
      canadian beef is expensive in canada because canadian beef producers can make a bigger buck selling to the US
    • dgudkov 2mo ago
      Australian beef is of worse quality. It should be cheaper. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/australian-beef-canadian-import-export-costs-9.7307835 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/australian-beef-...
    • 2mo ago
• FartinMowler 2mo ago
  Canada needs to create an "Economic Reparations Fund" to help those workers and companies harmed by trump's tariffs. Its initial funding should come from selling $10B of US bonds (Canada is ~5th largest holder) and a 5% surcharge on oil exported to the US. US already extracts a 12-22% discount off world oil prices from Canada (who's taking advantage of who?) so 5% shouldn't be an issue. As needed to cover damages, more bonds could be sold and the oil surcharge could be raised.
  • pebbly_bread 2mo ago
    Canada needs to reduce its exposure to the US market, giving resources to the companies harmed by the tariffs doesn't accomplish that
  • deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  • Pxtl 2mo ago
    The trick is that the stuff about steel and car parts is in Ontario, which is a province that does not kick up a fuss and pressure the federal government to protect its industries.
• ck2 2mo ago
  now imagine the next level of his destructive crime-spree August 2027 because this is nothing compared to when he starts to feel his loss of power btw there are reports he's going to use ICE to do actions NEXT to voting centers to get around "no armed agents in voting centers" to force the voting to shutdown electrocution gloves and all we're in the US authoritarian era, Supreme Court and Congress let it happen and now there's no undo button
• catlover76 2mo ago
  [dead]
• josefritzishere 2mo ago
  At some point , looking at all the damage, it becomes hard to dismiss Trump as merely unintelligent and incapable. The other possibility is that the destruction deliberate, and the goal to end US hegemony. Would things proceed any differently if it were?
  • atmavatar 2mo ago
    Much of the self-destruction flowed from the pages of Project 2025. You can't just blame Trump: you have to include the Heritage Foundation and the entire Republican party. This is not a problem that goes away when Trump ultimately leaves office.
    • Jordan-117 2mo ago
      Not to mention an electorate that voted for it after the entire plan was spelled out for them.
      • atmavatar 2mo ago
        I'm willing to give his base some benefit of the doubt, given how heavily propagandized they are via Fox News, OAN, Newsmax, Sinclair Broadcast Group, etc. On the campaign trail, Trump disavowed any connection to Project 2025 when it was leaked, and I suspect most of his base took him at his word. To anyone not trapped inside the right-wing media bubble, that is somewhere between naive and insane, of course, but people inside the bubble don't live in the same reality as the rest of us. However, your response does remind me of an important point: two other rather large, looming threats which need addressing are media consolidation and money in politics.
        • metabagel 2mo ago
          You're right, but his base are also a bunch of lemmings who will believe what they are told to believe.
    • metabagel 2mo ago
• gsky 2mo ago
  People who elected this clown are more dangerous
• zeagle 2mo ago
  The average American suffers being hated for this government and I say this currently sitting in a town filled with fly in rich American tourists to keep it alive. IMO the only retaliatory pain point for Americans to start to care will be taxing discounted oil, electricity, fertilizer, and transits of everything to Alaska. But they’ll just blame rather than support Canada. I don’t like Doug Ford or his policies but hopefully he brings up the electricity thing again as leverage because it won’t happen in the other sectors given AB separatism and SK being, well, SK.
  • dustbunny 2mo ago
    SK catching a stray here undermines the unity we are seeking. Uranium and potash from SK are huge bargaining chips. AB separatism is meaningless and it's emphasis and influence is propped up by Canada's adversaries.
    • Pxtl 2mo ago
      What unity? They didn't take American liquor off the shelves during the last round of this mayhem unlike every other province, we have no reason to expect solidarity this time.
• nekusar 2mo ago
  Ya know, there's not a damned thing I can do about any of this, other than TRY to get citizenship elsewhere and leave this shithole. And fascism is taking hold lots of other places as well. Canada's a laugh, with Alberta seperatism. And they also had trump trucker caravans. EU? They're boiling in their own juices with the fact they now need air conditioning due to climate devastation... And many countries make it illegal without health reasons. Japan and SK are both doing very poorly. China has some of the harshest immigration. South America is still being fucked with by the CIA and destabilization idiocy. I understand the tune-out check-out hippie response. There's fuck-all I can do, other than watch.
  • dustbunny 2mo ago
    Id like to suggest that you rethink your opinion on the trucker caravan protest. It is a reasonable position to frame them as opposing authoritarian government policies and for the governments response to be overreach. The popularity of the trucker protest made and makes sense. Big anti government movements like that attract all sorts of bad actors and the media and government worked to highlight the worst aspects of that protest. Mentally reducing the trucker protest to "thus Canada is bad" makes you seem like the type of black and white American fool that has created the political environment in the USA.
    • nekusar 2mo ago
      > It is a reasonable position to frame them as opposing authoritarian government policies and for the governments response to be overreach. Well that's a big coded pile of bullshit. What polices are "overreach"? By what standards? What authoritarian rules are being protested? Oh that's right. It's all anti-vaxxer and 'cure yourself of Covid with bleach and ivermectin' bullshittery. I have absolutely no fucking sympathy for a bunch of covidiots. Doubly so, since these chuckle fucks were ALSO pro-Trumpers. > black and white American fool that has created the political environment in the USA. And it's hilarious that you wouldn't touch the Alberta seperatism/fascist movement happening right now. You all like to pretend your shit doesn't stink... And well, I smelled it during wildfire season. Turn my sky yellow orange. But all of this is spoken like a Republican riling shit up on Facebook.
• elzbardico 2mo ago
  If the democrats don't manage to control both houses on the midterms and IMMEDIATELLY start the impeachment procedure against trump, I will start selling my portfolio and buying gold as fast as I can. If Trump and his cabal is left unchecked we will be running fast towards something that will make 1929 like child's play. And no, I am not a liberal. Far from it.
• nativeit-net 2mo ago
  Remember the halcyon days of “earlier this year” when the Supreme Court ruled these tariffs illegal and unconstitutional?
  • metabagel 2mo ago
    He's using a different rationale, so this would have to be litigated all over again. It's like whack-a-mole.
• deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
• FpUser 2mo ago
  Canada should grow their population to 100-150 millions. this way it will have decent internal market and be more attractive to make trade deal with the rest of the world. Instead it relies on the US which appears to be very bad idea.
  • THX1137 2mo ago
    That's my view. The "Century Initiative" is being criticized for suggesting that Canada should reach 100 million by 2100. But you'd never believe it, the criticism is that this is too many people, and not many people criticise this "Iniative" as having an unambitious goal.
    • jlos 2mo ago
      The criticism of the Century Initiative is that the extra 60-80 million are going to come largely from countries like India at rates that destablize Canada while further entrenching the kind of inequality that we've seen grow over the past 15 years. The British did this to almost 20 different colonies, with the same people groups for the same reasons.
      • THX1137 2mo ago
        Is that what it said in the Century Initiative? That it would come "largely from countries like India"? Show me where it says that I'm open to it.
        • tredre3 2mo ago
          Century Initiative obviously doesn't specify from which countries, it merely mentions skilled immigration as its primary source of growth. However if you take a step back and wish to argue in good faith, and look at where people did come from when Trudeau decided to open the flood gates 10 years ago, you'll find that India represents roughly 40% of immigrants. I'd say that can be described as "largely", and there is no reason to believe that opening the gates even wider would change those proportions.
• globalnode 2mo ago
  trumps the best thing that could have happened to the rest of the world
• hunglee2 2mo ago
  The world should've collectively recognised what Liberation Day was and responded together, in lock step, and in kind. Instead, the Europeans caved, Japanese caved (PM resigned after doing so), Republic of Korea caved (PM resigned after doing so), India of course caved and so on, shattering any prospect of collective action which might pull the rogue hegemon back into line. Now, the US is simply able to renege or renegotiate the bilateral deals whenever he feels like it, forcing the other party to face down the US by themselves - not many can do this, maybe only China. Anyways, I wish the Canadians well and I hope they gain global support
  • anon291 2mo ago
    India has no trade deal. Trump announced they did without signing anything. He just makes shit up and people believe him. India still buys oil from Russia
  • toomuchtodo 2mo ago
    They still can of course, all they need to do is collectively start selling off their US treasuries. The US is at a highly vulnerable and precarious point with their potential bond market debt spiral situation, and this is a point of leverage that can be exploited to encourage improved behavior from a bully. This capital can then be reallocated into domestic investment to continue to decouple from the US. Very similar to how Germany learned the hard way that buying fossil gas from Russia wasn’t going to prevent aggression. Canada has started this with their recently announced energy investment plan, Europe can do this with Eurobonds. PM Carney announces largest clean energy investment in North American history - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49339577 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49339577 - August 2026 China and Canada Energy Pact as Canada Aims to Cut Reliance on US - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46640932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46640932 - January 2026 (a component of China’s next five year plan includes LNG infra investment to support imports from Canada) On Eurobonds: Macron says €300B in EU savings sent to the US every year will be invested in EU - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46722594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46722594 - January 2026 (207 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46708337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46708337 (Canada and Europe collective hold ~$9T in US treasury debt, almost 25% of total outstanding debt)
• bambax 2mo ago
  Negotiating with the Trump administration is completely pointless, and can even result in your own government buildings being bombed while negotiations are still going on. The only argument bullies understand is being punched in the face. I wish more countries wiuld have the courage of cutting off ties with the US.
• LowTechHN 2mo ago
  [flagged]
• tygon 2mo ago
  It has been shown time and time again that the only thing the US administration respects is brutish headbutting, so I cannot blame the Canadian government for responding with such a stance. It is unfortunate for everyone though that it is happening. Ultimately, these tariffs just tax the consumer for no real gain on either side. I think I speak for many when I say 2028 cannot come soon enough.
• martythemaniak 2mo ago
  Question for Americans: do you guys understand what's happening? The thing to keep in mind is that the current trade agreement was negotiated and signed by Trump himself. He has spent the last 18 months seeing what a terrible deal it is. He does not want a "deal" into conventional sense, that is an agreement that works for both parties. He needs the counterparty to be humiliated and subjugated. CUSMA (the current agreement he promoted and signed) is bad because it works for all parties, it does not subjugate and humiliate the counterparties. What happened in these particular trade negotiations? Is that the actual negotiators had something worked out earlier in the week, then at the last minute the US made some new demand that was meant to humiliate Canada, and this tanked the negotiations. What exactly did they ask for? It's irrelevant, the point was humiliation. Actual trade policy, whether you want access to Canadian dairy market, or lumber tarrif rates or whatever, none of that matters. Is this a common understanding down south? Edit: after I wrote the above, it came out that the thing they demanded last minute is restricting Canada's ability to trade with other countries. Obviously, no PM would agree to such a thing, it's purpose isn't to have a deal, but as I said, subjugation and humiliation. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/livestory/us-canada-trade-war-new-tariffs-9.7310605?id=9.7310605.15375 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/livestory/us-canada-trade-war-...
  • metabagel 2mo ago
    As an American, there is a lot of disinformation in the U.S. A lot of people absorb MAGA talking points. The rest of us are in a continuous state of stunned disbelief. Trump tore down a third of the White House without permission, and somehow it doesn't set off alarm bells. He's supposed to be a steward of the government for 4 years, not a king.
• danity 2mo ago
  Time for Canada to cozy up closer to China, that'll end well for them I'm sure.
  • testing22321 2mo ago
    Yep, we’re getting low cost EVs, solar panels and a bunch more. We’re stoked.
    • JungleGymSam 2mo ago
      [dead]
  • timbit42 2mo ago
    It'll be better than the trade we have with the US as long as we don't reach the amount of trade we have with the US. Ideally I'd rather not have more than 20% of our trade with any one country.
• silverlinex 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  • deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  • THX1137 2mo ago
    And people say there are no positives to trade wars. With some luck the other half will pack up and leave asap
  • Arodex 2mo ago
    We'll see how long they stay after the US midterms (either after the Democrats win or Trump and Hesgeth start shooting civilians).
  • jappgar 2mo ago
    Source: boomers on YouTube
• guessbest 2mo ago
  Is YC News an American website? It seems like all the comments are advising against American interests with regards to tariffs.
  • rhyperior 2mo ago
    Are you not loyal and patriotic if you see your government is bad for the people and you support opposition to it? US citizen here. Fight back against my government, please, even when the current admin is replaced with another more benign one.
    • guessbest 2mo ago
      > fight back against my government, please I don't understand what you mean by this? Fight back against what? Protective tariffs?
      • metabagel 2mo ago
        Trump doesn't have the legal authority nor the mandate to enact arbitrary tariffs. His previous attempt ended with the Supreme Court declaring his tariffs illegal. This was the President of the U.S. willfully breaking the law, and he's doing it again. The law is not meant to be stretched into whatever shape Trump wants. And Trump has given no thought to his tariffs. There is no analysis underlying it. It's just him acting out like a child and trying to get some kind of "win" that he can sell as a personal triumph.
      • metabagel 2mo ago
        Tariffs in and of themselves might make sense, but the process has been arbitrary and illegal. There needs to be some sort of a plan to these things, and there is no apparent plan here.
      • rhyperior 2mo ago
        I don’t understand your confusion? Canada is standing up to bullying tactics from a corrupt administration. Yes, please, more. And if the world would continue to stand up for themselves in the future we might have more balanced relationships.
• bethekidyouwant 2mo ago
  "Our existing free trade deals already provide Canada with preferential access to 1.5 billion consumers, and we are on track to double that market access by the end of this year." the amount of mental gymnastics needed to believe this is off the charts.
• arecurrence 2mo ago
  Very interesting speech and Q&A from Prime Minister Carney on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx9ExdjaREg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx9ExdjaREg . He provides some details about the last minute demands that the US made including restricting Canada's ability to trade with other countries. He also refers to the US signature as being written in "pencil".
  • rkagerer 2mo ago
    This link to the same video skips the first few minutes of staring at an empty podium before he walks in: https://youtu.be/Dx9ExdjaREg?t=217 https://youtu.be/Dx9ExdjaREg?t=217
  • cmrdporcupine 2mo ago
    My favourite part was the face he made when he was asked about Lutnick's last minute involvement potentially changing the negotiations. The words were mostly diplomatic. The expression was not.
    • blitzar 2mo ago
      You mean Jeffery Epstein associate Howard Lutnick?
      • cmrdporcupine 2mo ago
        The one and only Jeffery Epstein Island Visiting Howard Lutnick.
        • blitzar 2mo ago
          > Jeffery Epstein Island You mean Pedophile Island?
• Klapaucius 2mo ago
  I though politics was to be kept out of Hacker News?
  • groundzeros2015 2mo ago
    Trump grievance is allowed and the comments are extremely low quality.
• deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
• duxup 2mo ago
  I don’t blame them, even if you cut a deal the president sees something on social media and comes back for more tariffs.
• billfor 2mo ago
  Time for War Plan Crimson. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/war-plan-red-crimson.htm https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/war-plan-red-cri...
• jmward01 2mo ago
  We are leaving the time when trust allowed trade agreements that went beyond the maximum minimum with the US. Trust allowed countries to make agreements with the US that had obvious potentials for exploitation, but overall they were followed to the greater benefit of both. Trust enabled that. Now the US has decided to break trust and countries know it. That lost premium means a major loss in value to both sides but ultimately the US will be the biggest looser because the other algorithm here is tit for tat. In a world economy, countries that cooperate will thrive and those that exploit will fail. We are seeing completely uneducated, emotion driven, economic policy play out.
• cdrnsf 2mo ago
  Everything the current US administration has done has been an unmitigated disaster. Tariffs are taxes. Manufacturing is still declining, not returning and a man who could not run casinos successfully is not going to change that. His economic and foreign policy are dictated entirely based on who flatters him the most. Add to that continued environmental damage, domestic policy dictated by a regressive religious minority and a lack of interest in performing the duties of the position in favor of caring about only what it can be leveraged for. A failing state operating on grievances and stupidity.
  • Spooky23 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    • aorloff 2mo ago
      The Democrats are not smartening up. The weak kneed leadership will be getting replaced by the populist message of Trump but coming from the left, people like Mamdani, the DSA candidates, etc. The people clearly want leaders who will say : we will use political tools to help the economic situation of the poor and middle class. Everyone from Jon Ossoff to Angie Nixon has some version of this message and its resonating
      • 8note 2mo ago
        DSA are democrats. clearly they are smartening up
        • chermi 2mo ago
          Smartening up in the sense of winning elections? Or serving their constituents?
          • NuclearPM 2mo ago
            Yes
          • 2mo ago
• suthakamal 2mo ago
  Under Trump, the us governments signature might as well be in pencil. This is America’s high water mark. It has lost the trust of the world. And since OpenAI and Anthropic and NVIDIA are the bulk of the hope of the American economy… America is fucked. Canada walking away from American Bullying will go down in history of the moment the empire’s descent accelerated. Fuck all the halfwit racists who voted for trump.
• christkv 2mo ago
  Looking past the political posturing i cannot even find any objective information about what the terms were. I just wish they could say what was the state of the deal and why it broke down in some detail.
  • brimwats 2mo ago
    They wanted to prevent Canada from signing any trade deals with anyone else (i.e. giving US a veto over deals)
• manojlds 2mo ago
  Is it Canadian dollar for US dollar? /s
• samizdis 2mo ago
  The Atlantic has just posted a piece about this [0] in which it argues many points echoed in comments here. Chief among them: > The Trump administration has one big idea about Canada: The U.S. is larger, stronger, and richer than Canada, so Canada must sooner or later surrender to Trump’s demands. That one big idea is wrong. > Yes, Trump can hurt Canada more than Canada can hurt Trump. That part of Trump’s thinking is true. But wars are not decided only by the question Who can inflict more pain? Wars are also decided by the question Who can endure more pain? Trump’s failure to accept this truth is why he lost the Iran war—and why he is losing his trade wars. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/08/why-us-canada-trade-talks-fell-apart/688386/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/08/why-us-canada-trad...
  • deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  • QGQBGdeZREunxLe 2mo ago
    Even with rising economic uncertainty within Canada, the LPC is enjoying ever-growing support amongst the Canadian voting public including amongst conservatives. Premiers are almost united (excluding Alberta's Danielle Smith) in their support for Carney walking away from trade negotiations.
• deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
• beloch 2mo ago
  Canadian here. The leaks surrounding the deal that was on the table earlier this week did not look promising. e.g. Locking in 15% tariff's on autos made in Canada would have resulted in slow death for the Canadian auto sector, not to mention hamstringing all of NA at a time when their only way to compete with Chinese auto makers is crushing tariffs or outright import bans. Something probably had to move here to get the deal done. Unbelievably, things went in the opposite direction. Howard Lutnick strolled into the Whitehouse at the eleventh hour and told Trump he thought that they could get an even better deal with Canada than what was on the table[1]. Americans should probably remember this guy. His family runs Cantor Fitzgerald, who has been buying up rights to tariff refunds[2]. Companies hit by tariffs can gamble on them eventually being declared illegal, or they can sell the rights to their refunds for a smaller amount and have some degree of certainty. When tariffs are struck down in court, companies like Cantor Fitzgerald make serious bank. So, here Lutnick is again, whispering in Trump's ear, drumming up more business for his family. Trump tends to listen to the last person who talked to him, whether it's an economist (This is unlikely, as Trump prefers not to talk to academics) or a bell hop. In this case, Lutnick got in last, Trump decided to move the goal-posts, the talks failed as a result, and now there are more tariffs that will probably be struck down by courts. Meanwhile, in Canada, people actually seem to be happy that this deal failed. Carney has made multiple concessions over the last year and change while the U.S. has made none and just kept demanding more and more. The general sentiment was that it's time to get tough, even if that means tariffs. Reports are that the latest demands during these talks were for limits on Canada's ability to strike trade deals with other countries, exclusive U.S. access to Canadian critical minerals, and even meddling in Canada's French language laws. Any one of these things would have been seen as a deal-breaker during normal times. With the mood being what it was, they were unthinkable. The American contingent knew this, so we can only conclude they deliberately scuttled the deal. Interestingly enough, Carney seems to have taken a page out of Trump's book by delaying retaliation until Sept. 8th, giving the Americans a deadline for a change. That leaves room for a couple of TACO Tuesdays. However, the messaging from the PM and premiers has been careful to point out that they are ready to hunker down and wait for Trump to leave office. Carney has solid support for this stance while Trump does not, even among republicans, plus the midterms are looming. Trump increasingly looks like the one without the cards. --------- [1]https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-us-tariff-trade-talks-howard-lutnick-us-commerce-secretary-9.7314835 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-us-tariff-trade-talk... [2]https://fortune.com/2026/03/07/winners-supreme-court-tariff-ruling-hedge-funds-creating-100-billion-secondary-market-refunds-brandon-howard-lutnick/ https://fortune.com/2026/03/07/winners-supreme-court-tariff-...
• water-data-dude 2mo ago
  A few months prior to the midterms is exactly the right time for this sort of action. If the voters keep seeing prices increase because of Trump's tariffs, it increases the odds that the republicans will lose the legislative branch and will be able to act as a check on Trump's power. Ideally some other countries will follow suit. This will cause some short term pain for Canada, but hopefully they'll have a less insane trading partner after November.
  • cmrdporcupine 2mo ago
    Unfortunately I think the only usable big lever we have as Canadians -- wine/beer liquor imports and people choosing to restrict personal travel to the US -- has already been used. We cannot and will not exercise energy or potash restrictions. And import tariffs are unlikely to be substantially impactful enough for Americans to notice enough that it alters their decisions at the ballot box. I would however urge my fellow Canadians to continue to or start boycotting goods from the US and travel to there, generally. And likely encourage Americans to come visit here. Come ski here this winter. You're more than welcome here.
• techteach00 2mo ago
  I'm sorry. As an American. The United States has no business treating Canada like some hostile foreign power. We're a grotesque country right now.
  • joshdavham 2mo ago
    Appreciated! But please get out and vote! And please convince all of your sensible friends, family and neighbours to do the same!
    • justin66 2mo ago
      > sensible friends, family and neighbours The trouble is that we need a majority.
    • techteach00 2mo ago
      Vote for who or what exactly? Both parties are completely corrupt. I'd vote for the guy running for Senate in Michigan. But I'm not stupid. The Democratic Party is identical to the Republican Party for anything that matters. Ultra fast imperialism or just fast imperialism. Hopeless situation.
      • deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]
      • joshdavham 2mo ago
        > The Democratic Party is identical to the Republican Party for anything that matters. Well they're at least not identical when it comes to tariffing your friends!
        • techteach00 2mo ago
          That's a good point.
      • BLKNSLVR 2mo ago
        Voting has always been about the lesser of two evils.
• deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
• cineticdaffodil 2mo ago
  [dead]
• pessimizer 2mo ago
  This is so cute, won't bother the US in the slightest, and will be backed down from instantly. It could literally be within days. Tariffs are the only good thing that Trump has tried to do - really driven by Bessant, the only competent person in the administration. He's had to react to "Trump's" bizarre decisionmaking, which is really the sum of Israel's and random lobbyist's desires, which has completely thrown off his vision, but "free trade" is bullshit, only benefits big business and the market, only in the short term, and everyone always knew this. It is absolute exploitation of poverty and authoritarian regimes around the world, and ends up in US margins, not in US working people's pockets. Bessant doesn't give a shit about working people, but he gives a shit about shifting the failing US from short-termism into long-termism - and you can't do that when your population is borrowing to buy imports and not working. You are forced into using your military for conquest in order to protect your own supply chains, and your military has been corroded by the same corruption as the rest of your economy, you pay 10x as much for everything, so there was never any need for them to increase production capacity. The anti-tariff libs are like "it's really taxes!" No shit, Sherlock. Remember when Grover Norquist wasn't the spirit of progressivism? Remember those protest movements that you hollowly ape the language of while openly opposing the policies of - the anti-globalization, anti-free trade movements? Remember how every single thing they predicted came true? Tariffs are a tax on foreign exploitation and supply chain insecurity. We need to bring that exploitation back onshore. Cheap bullshit is of no benefit if you don't have a job. Don't be fooled by elites in upper-middle class jobs furiously trying to ban anything that would lower their own incomes for a second - those are the same people who were telling you to learn how to code when your parents got laid off. They're the YIMBY gentrifiers of your neighborhoods. They've got hundreds of thousands or millions of $ in the market and in housing, and it's doubled and tripled while you moved back in with your parents, who can't afford their medication. When housing prices drop, they get mad. Housing prices are dropping right now, and they're getting mad. Completely unproductive financialized ways of making money are disappearing. They've bet the farm to the tune of trillions on hundreds of giant factories dedicated to word association. If you're a desperate poor person who has made meme-y financial decisions, please sell your bitcoins and your pokemon cards. I'm not even sure if precious metals can save you. You need production to move back onshore. You probably need immigrants gone, because you might have to learn how to pick fruit if you want to be able to eat it - it's the most productive thing the US does. Also, don't be fooled that there's some sort of economic consensus about how unwise tariffs are because you're online. Most of the people participating in that conversation are foreign elites who sell their own populations to the US for an extraordinarily luxurious living, send their kids here to go to school (and write articles about how that's somehow good for you) drive up your rents, and call you a racist for objecting - when they were literally propelled here on a cushion built by and on the slave classes of their home states. Tariffs are meant to transfer their (the few) success to you (the many) - so you can buy. They're compradors, and they're propagandizing you for their own benefit. After the US completely falls, and we're at 90% poverty, 9% comprador, and 1% plutocrat, they'll bring back manufacturing and sell your poverty to the flourishing Chinese middle class - a country that doesn't let the wealthy and foreign interests control its policy.
• gla67890543 2mo ago
  MAGA wanted factory jobs and Trump is providing that. There is nothing wrong. I hope they go and work in factories rather than Going to other countries and murder school children.
• PowerElectronix 2mo ago
  It's still surprising to me that countries legit tried to negociate a trade deal with this administration. I think it would have been easier to just discount the US until 2028 and make compensate trade with the rest of the parties involved, a canada-mexico-eu-japan-korea trade axis is easier to pull off than a mutually beneficial trade agreement with the US at the moment.
  • data-ottawa 2mo ago
    It probably means nothing, but it’s now impossible to rationally say Canada is acting unjustifiably or targeting the US to legitimately trigger these new tariffs. It’s like a PIP for our relationship with the US. However the US government is not rational anymore, otherwise this will get challenged and thrown out. That’s a long shot though. As a Canadian, I’m so tired of the US’s antics. Everyone I know is. Sun Tzu teaches to never fight an enemy with their back against the wall, and I think the US will find they’ve emboldened Canadians to absorb pain as there’s no escape.
    • cindyllm 2mo ago
      [dead]
• jongjong 2mo ago
  Tariffs are a moral and economic necessity. Every country should have some kind of tariff on foreign goods and services to offset regulatory asymmetries. It's not fair that an entire industry in one country is wiped out and replaced by that of a foreign industry with fewer regulations (and thus lower operational costs and higher margins)... It's bad not only from the business and opportunities perspective, but also from an environmental perspective as the damage is merely relocated to a different country with fewer regulations. Tariffs help to protect local industry which adheres to local laws. It provides a mechanism for the government to offset the business harms of the regulations it introduces whilst also blocking regulatory arbitrage loopholes which it would otherwise create. It's pretty straight forward; if the government introduces some environmental regulation which increases production costs by 10% for local producers, but foreign producers don't have to adhere to this regulation, then that just wiped out 10% profit margin from all local producers... If they were only just profitable before, now with the new regulation, their margins are now negative. To stay profitable, the local producer would have to increase the price of their products but this would cause sales to collapse as they will no longer have the cheapest product on the market. They may have the most cost-efficient process among all the local environmentally-friendly alternatives, but they can't compete against the foreign environmentally-harmful alternatives. And this is extremely harmful in the current financial system which has a tendency to eliminate people's surplus income. Without significant surplus income, the consumer is forced to buy the cheapest product available. Even if the quality is lower and even if it's not their first preference. The entire banking system is predicated on the idea of sucking out every dollar of surplus income out of the economy. This creates the race-to-the-bottom environment which keeps eroding quality of goods and services; the consumer is forced to accept increasingly low quality goods over time. Price becomes the only metric which matters and this ensures that businesses can never afford to adhere to any ethical frameworks. Of course tariffs don't work instantly, it can take decades for them to take effect. You can't revive a local industry overnight after it has been killed off. Also, there has to be confidence that the tariffs will remain in place in the foreseeable future. People aren't going to start businesses if they fear that the tariffs which protect them might disappear after the next election.
  • bystander2026 2mo ago
• aussieguy1234 2mo ago
  When prices are shown in store and online, it's not uncommon to show the amount and the "taxes" portion. It's time to show a "tariff" portion as its own amount so that people who support the traffis can see exactly who has to pay it. It's them.
• davesque 2mo ago
  In a way, it's nice that Trump is giving such a good, practical demonstration of why being a bully never works out the way you think it will. A good education for those who need it. Just sucks that we all have to pay for it out of pocket.
• kalstone 2mo ago
  Is everyone here sick? What's the reason to be on Canada's side here or is just always be on the opposing side of the "orange man"?
  • JungleGymSam 2mo ago
    [dead]
  • anigbrowl 2mo ago
    You know. a lot of people here are not from the US. And many people thought launching a trade war last year was a bad idea in the first place.
  • unethical_ban 2mo ago
    What's the reason to be on Trump's side? He's not on America's.
• bawolff 2mo ago
  As a canadian, i'm so over this drama. They will either trade with us or they won't. If they don't it will be painful - but im happy with the government reciprocating in kind (so we arent being taken andvantage of), and then moving on as best as possible. At some point you have to stop worrying about the things you cannot change. If trump wants a lose-lose deal, so be it.
  • savanaly 2mo ago
    >so we arent being taken andvantage of For the last time...that's not how trade works! People who say this in this context mean well, but are committing the exact same category error/misunderstanding of economics that Trump and his supporters are.
    • bawolff 2mo ago
      It is 100% how trade works. Free trade for both sides = good for both sides. Lopsided deals where one side gets the free flow of trade but the other side gets protectionism = exploitative. What is the category error here? Where is the misunderstanding? If you really believed what you wrote, why do you think trade deals exist in the first place? What function do you think they serve?
      • neom 2mo ago
        I'd guess that they're saying is, the point of trade, from a country's perspective, is to get imports. Exports are what you give up to obtain them (comparative advantage). So, when the US puts tariffs on Canadian goods, the main people who eat that cost are American consumers and firms buying those goods...basically, it's a tax Americans pay to Americans. Canada loses some export markets, however, the US isn't "extracting" anything...both sides just get less of a mutually beneficial thing.... So, In that faming, "one side gets free trade, the other gets protectionism" is in theory, a situation where the protectionist country is mostly shooting itself in the foot, not beating its partner. By the same theory, retaliating by taxing your own citizens purchases of American goods doesn't undo the damage... it adds to it. Also fwiw, a trade deal isn't a swap of comparative advantages, it's a bundling where each side concedes in sectors it can politically afford to lose in, inorder to win in sectors it cares more about. For example Canada protects dairy and gives ground on autos.
• bfrog 2mo ago
  Why would anyone be surprised by this outcome? No one should be surprised.
• resters 2mo ago
  At this point nobody should assume good faith on Trump's part... not citizens, not allies, not adversaries engaged in negotiation. It turns out "The Art of the Deal" is simply lying.
• clove 2mo ago
  Dollar-for-dollar counter-tariffs are a tax on Canadian buyers of US goods. The Federal Reserve studies on tariffs have shown basically no net tangible benefits to tariffs: any import protection industries gain from tariffs is cancelled out by the cost of the tariff on consumers. And of course, the two governments' accounts of the collapse of the talking are in direct contrast: within hours, both placed the failure to make a deal on the other party. It appears to me that any discussion in support or against tariffs here now isn't data-based but just political teamsports. The old HN would just note the studies on tariffs and move on. But not today's HN! So here we have a really long thread on HN saying "go team go."
• bloppe 2mo ago
  As an American with Canadian family, I salute Carney's handling of this situation
• etc-hosts 2mo ago
  On Saturday, he said that American negotiators “asked too much and offered too little.” Among other things, Mr. Carney said that American negotiators pushed to roll back Canada’s efforts to promote Canadian and French language content in online streaming services, subsidies for industries like publishing and film production and even mandatory labeling in French, an official language in Canada, as well as English on packaging. “We were close to reaching a comprehensive agreement with the U.S., but they made changes, including threats on French language and culture and Canadian culture that would never be acceptable for that reason,” Mr. Carney said in French. “That marked the end of that stage of negotiations.”
  • epistasis 2mo ago
    This is so stupid. It's really hard to understand how such utter moronic behavior even gets proposed. The best comparison I heard for the cultural idiocy is that it's like asking for the US to end SEC football. And ending French language in Canada has about potential benefit for the US as ending college football would have for the Canada: zilch. There's so much stupidity going on in the US right now that voters don't believe it when it's described to them, because it's sounds like it has to be biased. This is an indictment against the voters, however.
    • nostromo 2mo ago
      Nobody in the US minds that Quebecois speak French. The negotiations are because Canada taxes US cultural exports (movies, etc.) and gives that money directly to their Canadian competitors. It’s perfectly reasonable for any country to ask that their exports not be penalized with taxes, which is what Canada does to many US cultural exports.
      • brailsafe 2mo ago
        > The negotiations are because Canada taxes US cultural exports (movies, etc.) and gives that money directly to their Canadian competitors. Canada subsidizes U.S film production to incentivise the companies to use Canadian labour. It's the opposite of a tax, but there is a consumer digital services tax that's only been a thing recently.
• achiles 2mo ago
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• achiles 2mo ago
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• mkhalil 2mo ago
  People might think that Americans are selfish - and there ofc is truth to that - but I strongly believe that many-to-most of us WANT the world to 'reverse-uno' any tariffs or ridiculousness that the administration in power force upon others. We BEG for someone on the outside to standup; because clearly the people in power on the inside are not willing to. People fail to understand that our system of checks and balances are not some magic potion - or some Boolean flag - that flips on when a violation occurs; its just the power that is given to certain government bodies and people. The failure to use them is not much different than if they didn't exist in the first place.
• maxglute 2mo ago
  Times need to get less interesting.
• TitaRusell 2mo ago
  Everyone talking about trade but this is about sovereignty. America wants to take over Canada. All countries on this planet at some point were faced with a similar choice: capitulate or fight to the death. Ironically those who chose the latter are the ones who survived.
• Varelion 2mo ago
  Canada needs to export banking services to us. I don't trust this country's financial institutions.
  • good8675309 2mo ago
    They literally locked down peoples bank accounts simply for donating to a covid protest, no thanks
• arendtio 2mo ago
  Can't all the countries that are hit by US tariffs try to lower the barriers to trading with each other? Not a quick fix, but a signal to the US that they are losing its position in the long term.
  • Argonaut998 2mo ago
    This is definitely going on in the background. Mercosur and another EU trade deal with India. Canada and China (which was struck down but I imagine it will be rekindled with this). Just wait for some EU + Canada deal soon enough.
• bystander2026 2mo ago
  Too much political noises and not enough fact. Why would any country not to have the following: Industrial based Customers based Stop focusing on exporting too much.
  • fifilura 2mo ago
    Because trade is a benefit for both parties. And lack of trade takes your economy back decades.
    • bystander2026 2mo ago
      I did not say trade is not needed. Just don't make trade 50% or more of your economic activities.
      • fifilura 2mo ago
        You'll have to be prepared to take the hit on your GDP and general wealth then. Just look at how UK has developed after Brexit.
        • bystander2026 2mo ago
          [dead]
        • fifilura 2mo ago
          Like back to the 70s then. Shipbuilding. Soon it will be economically viable for them to open up the coal mines again. Then everyone can have a job. Even the children. Just like North Korea. (Brexit was 2020)
• bawolff 2mo ago
  The rumour floating around is that one of the things America wanted was US goods to be exempt from quebec language laws. LOL. LMAO. We'd probably sooner let them annex the fucking country than touch that bag of worms with a 40 foot stick.