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Steam Machine launches today
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine
https://www.lttlabs.com/articles/2026/06/22/the-newell-nucleus-steam-machine-ltt-companion-article https://www.lttlabs.com/articles/2026/06/22/the-newell-nucle...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QzlDewigE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QzlDewigE
- saidinesh5 3mo ago$1049 .. Damn. Here's hoping my $135 BC-250 arriving tomorrow works without any issue. Either way, congrats to Valve!
- seam_carver 3mo agoStarts at $1049
- zzixp 3mo agocongrats to Valve on the launch!
- Rooster61 3mo ago$1049 for the base package? Much better than I thought it was going to be. I figured minimum $1200.
- itsrobreally 3mo agoI mean, it is $1200 if you want a controller included
- littlecranky67 3mo agoIf you want a steam controller included. You can use also PS4/PS5 or Xbox controllers easily on linux (and thus steamOS) nowadays. I use a Ps5 controller on my setup, even though I never had a ps4 or ps5.
- Ekaros 3mo agoComponent pricing is bad. As even Valve can't get half of the hardware while other half is semi-custom... And this likely goes on until AI really dies or stabilises...
- panikal 3mo ago[dead]
- Venn1 3mo agoI was expecting $1200 for the base model, so $1,049 without a controller is nice to see. Having to enter a lottery to buy one makes it feel like Valve doesn’t have new stock in the pipeline for the foreseeable future.
- red_hare 3mo agoEh, it was the exact same system for the Switch 2 and no one I know waited more than a week for theirs. Given it requires a Steam login of a certain age to register, I suspect this is just to limit the scalpers.
- Venn1 3mo agoI hope that's the case. Seeing Steam Controller reservations pushed into 2027 tempers my optimism.
- no_news_is 3mo agoNo need to rush: > In an effort to improve the purchase experience and limit resellers, we're implementing a reservation system. > Starting right now, you can sign up for the Steam Machine model/bundle you're interested in. > If you're busy now, no problem: You can sign up anytime before Thursday June 25th at 10 a.m. Pacific. > At that time, we will close signups and do a one-time randomization to determine the reservation and waitlist order.
- evanjrowley 3mo ago[flagged]
- iLoveOncall 3mo agoI know they will sell, but at this price point I don't understand who is supposed to be the target for this. Either you want a gaming computer, and you'll get a much better one that can be upgraded in the future for the same price, or you want a console, and you'll never pay a grand for it. 4 years old hardware and poor connectivity.
- jrm4 3mo agoI feel like there's a midrange of "not particularly techy" gamers who will strongly appreciate - "I don't care about putting anything together, I just want to place PC games like a console."
- twoquestions 3mo agoPrebuilt machines have a terrible reputation, I could see people wanting this for a PC that you don't need hardware expertise to boot up. If you're reading this you could probably pick out your own parts and assemble them for cheaper, but for people who want a console-style plug-and-play type experience I could see the market for it. Pricey, but so is any other sort of electronic entertainment hardware these days.
- kibwen 3mo agoI wanted a gaming computer (read: an airgapped system that I could install arbitrary software on without fear), and I was sick to death of Microsoft's bullshit and resolved to never buy a Windows machine again, so I've been using a docked Steam Deck as my main gaming rig. It's performed far better than I imagined on the software side (has never failed to run any game in my library, though some have required minor settings tweaks), though the hardware is a little on the lighter side, which is perfectly acceptable for a handheld, but if the Steam Machine had been available at the time I'd probably have gone for that instead.
- iLoveOncall 3mo agoOk but why not buy a cheaper or more performant machine and install SteamOS on it?
- pursuitofugly 3mo ago[flagged]
- zzixp 3mo ago> created 2 minutes ago lol
- calebio 3mo agoDid you just stop scrolling at the first group of people to come and make this comment?
- pursuitofugly 3mo agoYes
- jauntywundrkind 3mo agoI'm tempted to go order yet another BC-250, even though I haven't gotten the first one going. Sure the Machine is considerably more modern, has great new features, probably vastly better power efficiency (even though it's only 6nm vs 7nm surprisingly). But 288GB/s memory bandwidth? Versus the BC-250's 448GB/s? https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/steam-machine-gpu.c4373 https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/steam-machine-gpu.c437... https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/playstation-5-gpu.c3480 https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/playstation-5-gpu.c348... Honestly tempted to buy a couple for relatives, who do some phone gaming and one who owns a 3DS they use, and see if they find anything interesting in PC gaming. Also make it a decent media center of course too.
- tylerflick 3mo agoAre you using the stock cooler? I’m going with an AIO for the APU, but I worry that the little heatsinks I’m planning for the VRMs aren’t going to cut it.
- lucius_verus 3mo agoI got impatient waiting for the Steam Machine to come out and grabbed a BC-250 on ebay that was already set up with a case, fan, and power supply. Works great for reasonably demanding games (CONTROL, Elden Ring, etc.). Now that I see the final price of the Steam Machine, I'm gonna be recommending the BC-250 more strongly.
- ThatPlayer 3mo agoLast I checked the idle power consumption of the BC-250 was on the higher side to make me not want to use it as a media center, though that could be my PSU. No hardware decode/encode (yet) either. And lack of DRM makes a PC in general a mediocre experience for official streaming services if you want more than 720p streaming. If you care about that.
- scuff3d 3mo agoOof, that price point is rough. I hope this does well for them, but I'm not sure who this is for.
- drnick1 3mo agoCan't you build or buy an equivalent (in performance) PC for cheaper? All with upgradable standard parts? I get the appeal of a small form factor, but I am afraid it may not sell well at this price.
- iLoveOncall 3mo agoI think you would struggle to NOT build a more performant PC for the same price. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/brbFsK https://pcpartpicker.com/list/brbFsK This is $50 more but it has 1TB of storage and a newer generation of both CPU and GPU and will absolutely destroy it. I'm sure you could get actually easily cheaper and better even, I haven't followed the market a lot lately. Prebuilt are likely to be even better deals because they will use some cheap noname parts for the RAM and the PSU, which is mostly fine.
- xinayder 3mo agoEven with similar specs you can still get more performance from a PC because Valve is throttling the Machine to keep thermals down.
- amunozo 3mo agoFor me, size and aesthetics play a role. A PC like that is huge and, imo, much uglier. I know a lot of people do not care but I am sure I am also no the only one.
- drnick1 3mo ago> A PC like that is huge and, imo, much uglier. It's not huge, it's a mid-tower (admittedly, not a pretty one). But the real benefit is that it is upgradable. Basically you are trading off user serviceability for "it just works" and the form factor. Another thing the Steam machine has is HDMI-CEC support, which is nice if you intend to use this with a TV, perhaps with KDE Plasma Bigscreen. But $1000 is rather steep for a console/HTPC.
- 3mo ago
- ZeroCool2u 3mo agoMore information here: https://youtu.be/66QzlDewigE?is=WC9vt6LBtdWFPqfp https://youtu.be/66QzlDewigE?is=WC9vt6LBtdWFPqfp
- haunter 3mo agoWorth watching for the Steam OS problems part
- HeavyStorm 3mo ago> who are we trying to tell you how to use your computer? Valve is still great.
- retired 3mo agoIsn’t this industry standard? How many PCs have locked boot loaders? Edit, reply to Rohansi as I am rate limited, I’m talking about gaming PCs not consoles.
- Rohansi 3mo agoPS5, Xbox? They're almost PCs and are in the same space as Steam Machine.
- mort96 3mo agoThis is more competing in the game console market than the PC market though.
- Rohansi 3mo agoYup, even though this is just a gaming PC, most people are going to be using it as a game console.
- inigyou 3mo agoA lot of machines ship with secure boot locked to Microsoft's key. Usually there's a way to turn it off, otherwise you need the shim loader Microsoft signed in 2015 whose signature has just expired and who knows if Microsoft will sign it again.
- koolala 3mo agoI can't believe all the replies who see no problem with a company completely controlling their device like it makes no difference.
- ben-schaaf 3mo agoEvery iphone, ipad, playstation, xbox, android phone (though there are ways of unlocking), smart TV, smart Fridge. These are all devices that run a full web browser, these aren't appliances they're full personal computers. You can write and run software on them, even if arbitrarily limited in hardware access.
- GL26 3mo agoThis seems very expensive for what a PC can do :(. A PC can be fully customizable with price ranges that are lower than the steam machine. The "hardcore console gamers" live on PS, and Xbox, and for "casual gamers", a Nintendo Switch would provide much better bang for you buck.
- panikal 3mo agoFind me a PC in this form factor that is as well tested and supported as the steam boxes are, with the specs they are claiming to have, at this price. Its a little above the curve but a little is not a lot, and you get a fully supported Linux box at that price. .....and if you think this is expensive just wait until the PS6 and new Xbox are released.
- bigyabai 3mo agoYou can install a SteamOS-style console experience on any old PC, including handhelds or mini-pcs with integrated graphics. Bazzite is a great choice for that, even my RX560 handles it without issue. > a Nintendo Switch would provide much better bang for you buck. A secondhand Steam Deck would also be better value, but this isn't a value-focused product. The Steam Machine is Valve's second stab at the premium couch-based PC gamer market, this time with Proton and a bigger focus on controller usability for ordinary PC games.
- bravetraveler 3mo agoMildly disappointed to see 1GbE when spending [at least] a thousand dollars. Stupid datacenters squeezing all the chips.
- littlecranky67 3mo agoInterested in hear the justification why you would need more than 1GbE in a machine built specificly for gaming.
- corndoge 3mo agoIt's a living room pc - using it to stream from a media NAS is one application that comes to mind
- kube-system 3mo agoYou could stream 5 bluray videos and hold a zoom call at the same time with 1 gbps.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- Keyframe 3mo agoDownloading those giant game installs and updates
- littlecranky67 3mo agoWhere do you live and how much do you pay for that Internet uplink that is > 1GbE?
- bravetraveler 3mo agoWith the 'Game File Transfer over Local Network' feature in Steam, you don't need a fast internet connection; 'just' another system on the LAN that can serve the files. Fairly common for those with full-powered gaming desktops and Steam Decks, and soon, Steam Machines.
- vachina 3mo agoI have a Series X with a very similar spec just sitting there collecting dust. I hope one day it will run linux like the PS5 and run Steam lol.
- CagedCoder 3mo agoFor some reason I never considered this route, despite following the PS5 Linux developments... is there a specific reason that the XSX is harder to homebrew than the PS5? It would be incredible to convert my dusty XSX to a linux box
- sedatk 3mo ago> is there a specific reason that the XSX is harder to homebrew than the PS5? Xbox 360 was notoriously hard to reverse engineer at the time. Maybe for similar reasons.
- asmnzxklopqw 3mo agoAre they crazy to ask for this price? Few months ago I have bought a minipc with amd 8845hs 8/16c, 32GB RAM, 512GB NVME for €519
- MYEUHD 3mo agoCan you check how much that mini pc costs today?
- vondur 3mo agoYou can get a Miniforums PC with the Radeon 780m for $699 US, but I don't think the graphics performance is on par with the SteamBox. I'm not sure on the reliability of these tiny PC's either https://www.amazon.com/MINISFORUM-Desktop-Computer-Output-Graphics/dp/B0DRVSK2T9/ https://www.amazon.com/MINISFORUM-Desktop-Computer-Output-Gr...
- Tiberium 3mo agoI think a lot of people expected it to be in the ~$600 price range, maybe ~$800 at worst. RAM prices made it quite expensive...
- LukaD 3mo agoYes, so many people were claiming that it will be around that price point. That seemed straight up delusional to me. Memory price has roughly quadrupled and 32GB DDR5 basically cost the same as the original cheapest steam deck.
- ErneX 3mo agoIt’s not just the ram now, it’s also the storage. A double whammy.
- matthew_hre 3mo ago[dead]
- robmccoll 3mo agoFor reference, a PlayStation 5 is $600-650 for the base models (lower performance than Steam Machine) and $900 for the Pro model (likely higher performance). I know this is a PC and thus an open platform, but for most buyers in living room gaming, that's the competition. I don't think this will reach mass market success, but I'm not sure that was the goal. Who are they selling to? Note: I ask as someone with a Steamdeck sitting on the desk in front of me and a custom-built computer under my TV running Linux.
- kiernanmcgowan 3mo agoMy guess are people who want to PC game but don't want to deal with building a PC themselves - there's a decent market of pre-built gaming PCs that this would be competitive with. https://www.newegg.com/Gaming-Desktop-PC/SubCategory/ID-3742 https://www.newegg.com/Gaming-Desktop-PC/SubCategory/ID-3742
- mikepurvis 3mo agoAnd there's a valid market there, but as someone who just spent half my Saturday morning debugging a CPU throttling issue on my kid's 2020-vintage Lenovo Legion laptop, I feel like a pre-built is in some ways the worst of both worlds, like you don't get the savings and fine-tuning that is something you assembled yourself, but you still get all the fun of debugging driver issues, weird performance stalls, and who knows what else. That said, I've never had a Steam Deck or tried to seriously game on Linux, so I may be out of touch with how much smoother the picture is in an all-Proton world. (the laptop issue turned out to be something in the firmware asserting BC PROCHOT for some reason; for now we can periodically clear it with the ThrottleStop utility, but who knows what the actual underlying problem is)
- Philpax 3mo agoThe Steam Deck is the closest thing the PC world has to a console (barring the Steam Machine, of course), and features near-console levels of hardware/software integration.
- 3mo ago
- everdrive 3mo agoThe prices I think a lot of us expected. I know Valve is being pressured by the market, but I can't imagine buying one for this price, even if I'm really excited for the Steam Machine. That said, the Steam Deck is now so expensive I don't think I can justify replacing mine when it breaks.
- BadBadJellyBean 3mo agoAt least it's repairable so unless you break the motherboard you can probably fix it.
- sailingparrot 3mo ago> Why a randomized reservation order? [...] we wanted to create a system that would be less frustrating and more fair for everyone. A launch that starts at a specific day and time tends to reward bots, people with fast internet connections, talented gaming fingers for quick F5/refresh reactions, and those who can schedule their life around that moment. By accepting reservation signups over the course of a few days, without any incentive to be first, we're hoping to take away some of that friction. This is nice.
- iLoveOncall 3mo agoIt's not worse than a traditional launch, but it's also not much better. Make 1,000 Steam accounts, which are entirely free, and you get 1,000 times more chances of getting one than others. To be fair I don't think they'll be scalped a lot because the price isn't attractive already and alternatives are plenty.
- Ekaros 3mo ago>You must have made a purchase on Steam prior to April 27th 2026. >Limit one signup per household. We will use payment method, shipping address, and other information to eliminate multiple entries. Seems like they have chosen some reasonable options here. 2 months ago having purchase and trying to detect households. Likely also including phone number, Steam Guard client and family sharing.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- xinayder 3mo agoSteam accounts newer than April do not qualify, plus I think you need to have spent at least $5 to qualify for the reservation queue (i.e. not community limited)
- flutas 3mo agoThe account has to have bought something on steam before April 27th. They also are verifying addresses via the accounts. > Are there any criteria for signing up? > Customers must meet the following criteria to be able to sign up: > You must have a Steam account in good standing. > You must have made a purchase on Steam prior to April 27th 2026. > Limit one signup per household. We will use payment method, shipping address, and other information to eliminate multiple entries.
- sergiotapia 3mo agoThanks to Valve, I've now been using Omarchy as my operating system for months now. Gaming just works on Linux now. It's crazy, used to be a pipe dream! I'm buying the Steam Machine as well to game on the couch. Give me 4k 60fps and that's all I need. The Steam Controller is also fantastic shape on my hands, very comfortable.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- john-titor 3mo agoCare to explain what Omarchy has to do with Valve?
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- getcrunk 3mo agoI assume they are referring to the general tide of improvements valve has brought to gaming working generically on linux, and that they are using omarchy to experience it
- erxam 3mo ago[flagged]
- furyofantares 3mo ago> D14HH How'd the 14 sneak in here
- radium3d 3mo agoI imagine Valve Software wanted to release the Steam Machine for $549-$699. The great RAM hoarding of 2025-2026 killed this product on arrival sadly.
- xinayder 3mo agoAccording to LTT the original price was in the $800 range, but thanks to Sam Altman it increased to what we saw today.
- yaro330 3mo agoI think that was already in the RAM crisis, so that was priced in. I think it would be a lot cheaper w/o the whole price boom.
- tokai 3mo agoNot it was definitely before.
- Insanity 3mo agoLTT was only speculating, they did not know the actual price as far as I remember. (They had a video doing some educated guesses, or maybe a WAN show, can’t exactly recall). No doubt the price was lower before this hardware shortage, but the $800 is not a reliable number afaik.
- sambaumann 3mo agoIn their video today, they said they asked Valve the original pricing, and they said (paraphrasing) "we can't tell you exactly - but the increase we recently had on the steam deck is about how much the pricing for machine increased" - which is how they came up with the $800 number
- ErneX 3mo agoYup, and another source: https://bsky.app/profile/papapishu.bsky.social/post/3movfklqvns2o https://bsky.app/profile/papapishu.bsky.social/post/3movfklq...
- vondur 3mo agoInteresting with the memory. It is 16GB plus an additional 8GB for graphics, or is it just 16GB with 8GB reserved for graphics?
- Rohansi 3mo ago16GB DDR5 + 8GB GDDR6
- andruby 3mo agoIt is 16GB plus an additional 8GB for graphics.
- postepowanieadm 3mo agoIt's GPU's VRAM or some sort of shared memory? I have never seen mixed ram before.
- fluoridation 3mo ago>I have never seen mixed ram before. What do you mean? Most PC's have mixed memory configurations.
- neko_ranger 3mo agoUnfortunate for them on the pricing of components. This won't do so well (right now), but I think the Frame will exceed expectations.
- metamet 3mo agoNaw. I think they'll sell every single one they're able manufacture for the next couple years. The pre-order list will probably fill most of those.
- trashface 3mo agoInteresting that they went with AMD for GPU, but not too surprising. My experience with a nvidia 5060 on my laptop is that nvidia's drivers on linux still have no idea how to reliably wake from sleep. Fixing that just not the priority for them I guess - datacenter GPUs doing AI probably never sleep and just idle at 50 watts or whatever.
- Tiberium 3mo agoIt was kind of expected since Steam Deck (obviously) had an AMD APU, and AMD works much better with mainstream Linux projects in general.
- jrepinc 3mo agoAnd since for AMD it is an open source driver Valve can also hack on it and squeze more performance out of it for their own specific hardware configuration.
- bjord 3mo agovalve themselves also personally employ multiple major contributors to the amd linux drivers https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Marek-Joins-Valve https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Marek-Joins-Valve
- singingtoday 3mo agoI understand why it costs that much, but it's too much. Don't get me wrong, I'm not commenting on the value, but rather the markets ability to handle it.
- MBCook 3mo agoYeah. But they’re only other choices to just sit on it for a few more years, which point they would need to put different hardware in and it would just increase costs. This may be the best option of a couple of terrible ones.
- Gigachad 3mo agoMy hope is this is just a soft launch that people who really want can get now, but that they revise it in the future to either be massively more powerful or much cheaper.
- patmcc 3mo agoYeah. I don't think they're gouging, I totally understand how expensive RAM and storage and GPUs are, but...oof. I just can't justify it as a 'fun' purchase.
- Lord_Zero 3mo agoSame, I could have maybe justified $600 to my wife, $800 would be really pushing it. But 1k+ with a controller? There's no way when we have other things to save for. I am sure young single people will still buy it and it will sell out, but my Series X was $550 a few years ago and ill enjoy that in my living room for a while longer.
- LinXitoW 3mo agoI mean, can the market really handle any of these prices? If we're truly stuck with these increasing prices for another year or so, whole sectors might get "restructured", including gaming, simply because people cannot afford the devices they depend on.
- Keyframe 3mo agoYeah, I don't see this succeeding at these prices. Succeeding in a sense to come close to Switch 2 / PS5 (Pro) levels.
- mathgeek 3mo agoI don't think we could ever expect a specific gaming PC to compete with the volume sold of gaming consoles that have exclusives people really, really want to play.
- kipchak 3mo agoI don't think the goal here is to necessarily sell a bunch of hardware units, but to create a new product category of devices which buy games from steam, like the steam deck did with handheld gaming PCs.
- Narishma 3mo agoIt was never going to do those numbers, regardless of price.
- BadBadJellyBean 3mo agoSad about the price. Maybe it comes down some day.
- dgellow 3mo agoGiven the current state of the global market it will likely take a few years for prices to come down
- BadBadJellyBean 3mo agoYeah I think so too. It's a shame. For maybe around $300 less it would be an awesome product. At least I have a good gaming PC at the moment.
- inigyou 3mo agoWell, that's how prices solve shortages. Less people buy, and the ones who want it more get one
- BadBadJellyBean 3mo agoAh yes. The good old cobweb theorem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobweb_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobweb_model
- haunter 3mo agoPrices and I mean the price tag will never come down again. That was an exception for technology and gadgets for a few decades but I'm not sure it will happen again.
- inigyou 3mo agoSemiconductors always go through boom and bust cycles - so say stock market analysts. But I'm not sure how long they typically are? (This is a boom not a bust for them)
- 3mo ago
- pseudosavant 3mo agoI know the price for PC parts is terrible these days, but $1049 for a 6-core 16GB RAM, with a 512GB SSD, and no controller, is a terrible value. For reference, the PS5 Pro has more than twice the number GPU CUs, an 8-core CPU, a 2TB SSD, a controller, and costs $899.
- mock-possum 3mo agoRight, but it’s a PS5, not a PC - you’re paying less for the privilege of letting Sony 100% control what you use the device for, including not being able to play your own games that you’ve paid for. Try doing that on a PC. Try checking your email on your PS5, or steaming the media of your choice.
- threetonesun 3mo agoSure, I have to use my gaming console as a gaming console, much like I use my smart thermostat as a thermostat and don't check email on it.
- keithxm23 3mo agoAnd all you use your IPhone for is to make phone-calls, right?
- threetonesun 3mo agoYou missed the point. If all I did was make phone calls on a $100 flip phone why would someone saying "oh but the $1000 iPhone can do so much more!" matter to me.
- celsoazevedo 3mo agoBut in this case, they even say: "...and it's a PC Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?" It's not just a gaming console.
- lksaar 3mo ago[dead]
- aranelsurion 3mo agoSo unfortunate with the timing, I wish they shelved it for a few years instead. At any other time this could've been the thing to entrench Steam, PC and Linux as finally THE gaming platform. At this price and features it'll probably just be a footnote.
- YuechenLi 3mo agoSurprised that they have 4 USB-A and only 1 USB-C. With their power profile, Steam Machine should be powerable by a single USB-C cable on extended power range which should reduce the need for the power supply altogether and greatly simplify mechanical as well as thermal design, although the power electronic design would be more complex as a result. I would also be expecting Wifi 7 support as well as unified memory considering they ordered custom AMD silicon. Understandable that it is a rather conservative design for their first generation though.
- diath 3mo agoWhy is it surprising? This is essentially a pre-built PC in a small form factor and most PC peripherals are USB-A.
- Reubachi 3mo agoMy 4 year old (maybe 5?) work laptop has 3 usb C ports. My macbook is all usb c, and my home media/gaming PC has a mix and match. All my cables I would connect to my home PC/macbook are USB C. IE bluetooth adaptor, sd card adaptor, external ssd, mouse/keyboard, a soundbar etc. I have several chinesium clones of dewalt batteries/tools, IE lights, compressors etc. They all have USB c output. "most pc perihpials are USB-A" is not exactly correct for some time now. (not that I'm a fan.)
- inigyou 3mo agoUSB C ports cost a lot more, needing extra controller chips and special HCIs. USB-A, especially 2.0, is dead cheap. I would've expected more than 3 though? Standard consoles used to support 4 controllers, plus you'd probably want a mouse and keyboard at the same time if it's also a PC. I guess it's fine if you're assumed to be using wireless controllers.
- YuechenLi 3mo agoNot quite right, USB-C ports are generally cheaper nowadays because they are smaller, consumes less material for plastic/metal, more easily automatable production wise in terms of tooling, and scale for them is a lot higher because of mobile usage. You don't really need extra production chips since the console USB-C ports are designed for PD and crippled 14/16 pin versions that only supports the USB 2.0 speed, because the high-speed pins literally do not exist on those.
- unixhero 3mo agoMy phone has 1tb storage since 2022...
- andy_xor_andrew 3mo agoThis is a weird thing to call out, when there's so much else to talk about (price, specs, etc) buuuuuut- Check out the gameplay video partway down the page, where the two people are on the couch playing Cuphead. Right under "Your Steam library in more places." It's just... a real clip of real people playing a real game and reacting in a real way. It's funny. I know it's stupid to call out, but how many exaggerated versions of this scene have you seen before? And Valve is smart enough to say "Let's just film two people playing a real game and snip a nice, realistic reaction shot from it."
- abustamam 3mo agoThat's basically how I looked playing Cuphead with my wife except I think there was a bit more swearing coming from her
- bowsamic 3mo ago[flagged]
- imustbeevil 3mo agoI'm not sure I understand, I'm just seeing a very clearly staged 2 second clip of product usage and reaction like you'd see in any commercial.
- retired 3mo agoI hope they will release a version with a replaceable CPU and GPU. For a company that does so well on repair ability I don’t understand why they solder everything on the board. I prefer a mini-ITX system where I can easily change the components.
- prhn 3mo agoI want to buy one just to raise the signal that Linux support is important. When these machines were announced I switched to Fedora as a daily driver on my high end gaming rig. It’s been awesome. I still have to go back to Windows for music production unfortunately. I may switch to Mac for that so I can completely abandon Windows. I run an optical HDMI cable from my office to my TV and get to play games and use Linux in 77”. Something feels awesome about that.
- hypertexthero 3mo agoDitto. I use Macs for work and PC for games, and this little box seems a good opportunity to play The Legend of Linux on a desktop or a couch, and make it true.
- inigyou 3mo agoLet me guess, DAWs? Have you tried Reaper (FOSS) or Bitwig Studio (commercial)?
- intrikate 3mo agoReaper is neither Free nor Open Source.
- tuvix 3mo agoSeconding Reaper, great software. Renoise is also extremely fun to use if you’re comfortable with trackers (for midi input not that they track you) and you make electronic music
- Melonai 3mo agoAs a sibling comment pointed out, Reaper is not FOSS, it's fully proprietary. What makes it stand out is its great Linux support, and very generous licensing. If you want to venture into the FOSS DAW realm on Linux you have to go to LMMS and Ardour. I've played around with them, they're a little bare-bones, but they do work. Issue is I haven't been able to use them properly, because I just can't stand to look at them, they are afflicted with the medium-size open-source project curse of looking particularly horrid. I hope this isn't taken as an affront to any of the developers behind these projects, a DAW is a hard task, but I keep asking myself, out of the set of developers who work on these projects, is there really no one who feels the same way as me? Am I just afflicted with some weird pixel-peeping autism-esque disorder that makes me stare at the constantly-reocurring-throughout-all-FOSS-applications clump of jarringly gradient-ed grey buttons with white icons on them, their round corners contrasting with each other because they're clearly placed way too close together than they were meant to be? (I swear I see this in every mid-scale project using QT and older GTK!) And I also need to confirm, this isn't just a "slight annoyance" for me, I have genuine issues when I have to concentrate on a project within some application that is suffering from the FOSS UI affliction, my mind wanders to looking at those buttons again, or those #00FF00 greens, or at some label that has clearly seeped a few pixels downwards out-of-alignment with the button it was placed in... Ugh, I know I have some issues for sure, but I know someone else has to care about this too? It's the main reason why I fail at using non-textual FOSS software, and have to resort to Logic Pro or Ableton! Sorry for the rant, I had to get it out of me. I wish I had more time in a day, then perhaps I could go to these projects and help out with UI, but I have a feeling my proposals will be rejected, even if I had the time to make them, I have found most FOSS developers are quite happy with how their UI usually looks like, including many people here on this forum.
- rootsudo 3mo agoThey released it. Companion cube.
- byteflip 3mo agoMy steam deck is underpowered as a living room gaming PC. Wish it was cheaper but would look forward to a “just works” experience including sleep/instant game resume. Add my thousands of already owned Steam games and it makes me excited for a great couch gaming experience. It’s the reason I don’t get a PS5/Switch cause I don’t wanna rebuy all the games and they are not on sale as much.
- skupig 3mo agoIf you already have a powerful desktop PC in your house, streaming via Sunshine/Moonlight is pretty much perfect these days.
- cassianoleal 3mo agoI honestly can't understand this. It's ok for games where latency and lag don't matter much but otherwise it's pretty bad. I have even connected 2 computers directly with an ethernet cable to rule out my networking gear and it was ok but very very far from perfect! Not to mention the experience is clunky at best. Switching resolution, losing settings, dealing with encoding/decoding, etc.
- Hikikomori 3mo agoIts not too bad. I played through animal well, a platformer, which requires quite a few tricky jumps, but I did connect the controller to my PC instead. Adequate for most couch gaming but I wouldn't play cs2 or similar competitive game with a controller anyway.
- jddecker 3mo agoI played Celeste using Steam Link from my PC over wifi to an Nvidia Shield and it worked good about 99% of the time. Is the tech perfect? No, but it does work great a lot of the time.
- skupig 3mo agoI'm looking at the performance stats streaming a game to my living room PC right now, and total latency is about 4-5ms, which would be unnoticeable even on a 120hz TV.
- hari1123 3mo agoSteam Deck is probably better value
- sudobash1 3mo agoI am pleased to see hardware not being locked down as a selling point: > Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer? It feels very commonsense that you should be able to run whatever you want on the computer that you have purchased, but it is surprisingly uncommon.
- tonymet 3mo agoAnd I like knowing that I will own the hardware long term. I have so many bricks at home with great hardware and locked boot loaders.
- all2 3mo agoThe urge to tear down the stack of cellphones I have and pull the boot flash chip hits me occasionally. It would be a substantial project, though, so I haven't done it. Yet.
- inigyou 3mo agoYou have to do things. You can't sit on project ideas forever while they become obsolete. A lot of things on my project ideas file became obsolete while I didn't do them, and that is sad. I even had enough time to do them but still wasted it on places like HN.
- all2 3mo agoI know. It hurts to let things die in my project backlog. But there's so much of 'life' outside the project log that I don't have time. I have to prioritize. I feel the 'don't waste time on HN' thing. I'm working on it, minimizing social media usage, minimizing non-productive screen time.
- jamespo 3mo agoThey must have gone obsolete quickly as your account is only 4 months old
- lawn 3mo agoIt's interesting how so many are complaining about price and how it's dead etc. Yet it will still be out of stock for a long time.
- mrguyorama 3mo agoThe repeated insistence that a company can only possibly be successful if it reaches every human being on earth is killing the world. A company that spins up a division, builds a product, sells 100k of them, and winds down is a success Keep in mind this entire venture from Valve is also about ensuring they can't be made a vassal of Microsoft.
- Fogest 3mo agoValve isn't doesn't have to appease any public shareholders every quarter. There are likely no real expectations apart from making some profit which I am sure they will easily do. Then they just do like they have done with the Steamdeck and leave it on their store as an item they keep in stock and make some decent side income on. Throw it on sale for all their big sales and get some nice sales bonuses off it here and there. I think ultimately there goal is to push more people towards Linux so that more games get developed there. All of their hardware pretty much targets the Linux side of gaming, so they really are trying to get rid of the Microsoft monopoly on PC gaming which I think is great.
- Torkel 3mo ago"Internal power supply, AC power 110-240V" I wonder if they mean that? Japan is 100V.
- emadabdulrahim 3mo agoI'm not familiar with SteamOS and Valve hardware in general. Could I play something like Overwatch on this, and connect keyboard and mouse? Could I play other PC games like World of Warcraft?
- Creamsicle47 3mo agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48633563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48633563
- nananana9 3mo agoIt's just a Linux box, you can do anything that you can on any other Linux machine (including install Windows). Linux more or less runs most Windows games. The ones that don't run are ones where the developer is going out of their way to make them not run - mostly with kernel-mode anti-cheats that just find themselves staring at the wrong kernel. Steam makes that pretty seamless and Steam games "just work". For non-Steam games you need to do some tinkering, it's stuff that most people browsing this forum can do.
- sparkling 3mo agoDual-booting SteamOS for gaming and some regular Distro for daily work would be neat.
- koolala 3mo agoIt's pretty good for daily work. You can use Distrobox to do any software dev without dual booting.
- crooked-v 3mo agoNote that the "just" is overlooking that it's more locked down than a typical Linux box, in that the OS filesystem is read-only and all app installs live in userland (though you can turn off the read-only behavior). For what it's worth I'm very much a fan of it as a default for a mass-market machine, but you'll run into weird gotchas if you want to do "programmer stuff" with it.
- etchalon 3mo agoSummary - Get a PS5 Pro.
- alecsm 3mo agoBut I don't want a PS5. I think most of people who wanted (me included) a steam machine are now between buying it or not buying anything at all.
- etchalon 3mo agoFair.
- ErneX 3mo agoThe good news today is that Steam OS will be available for any PC soon.
- jrepinc 3mo agoOr already is in form of many freely available gaming Linux distributiuons like CacjyOS, Nobara, Bazzite... not 100% exactly the same but still 99% there already so no need to wait for SteamOS.
- rvz 3mo agoAs I was saying. With those specs, you might as well get a PS5 [0] even with a PS5 Pro it would still be cheaper than the Steam Machine. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45908208 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45908208
- efilife 3mo agoBut you are severely limited on what you can do on a console
- ChrisArchitect 3mo agoAssociated announcement post: https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/45479024/view/685257114654870245 https://store.steampowered.com/news/group/45479024/view/6852...
- HelloUsername 3mo agoWhy isn't this URL included in this post?
- ChrisArchitect 3mo agoUpdated
- dang 3mo agoFrom last year: Steam Machine - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404 - Nov 2025 (1514 comments) For balance: I don’t need a Steam Machine - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45943992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45943992 - Nov 2025 (272 comments)
- alecsm 3mo agoWhat a great machine it would've been without these stupid prices we have now...
- charcircuit 3mo agoIf Valve learned to operate on a proper schedule instead of Valve Time they would have been able to stockpile these parts and release with better prices.
- dang 3mo agoRelated ongoing thread: Steam Machine game testing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48632989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48632989 - June 2026 (19 comments)
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- ChrisArchitect 3mo agoRelated: Steam Machine https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48632884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48632884
- pphysch 3mo agoValve could have made a $2-$3K rig that outperforms other consoles for 4K gaming but I'm glad they didn't. It's genuinely unfortunate the components market went crazy at the same time. I hope this and the steam deck-likes continue to be successful and incentivize developers to optimize their games for last-gen and portable hardware. I think the "steam deck compatible" certification has already been fairly good for that.
- danielodievich 3mo agoback in 2019, I was thinking of getting an MBA and as part of the exploration, shadowed an MBA class at University of Washington for a day. It was so fun. One of the things they were discussing in the class that day was a case study of Valve, specifically around the Steam Machine. The team's consensus was that Valve was carefully arranging money in a barrel, lovingly soaking it in high octane gasoline, and was about to light a match.
- iknowstuff 3mo agothis Steam Machine hadn’t been announced back then? Not even the steam deck, which has been a massive success.
- stryan 3mo agoWe know they've been kicking the idea around since the first line up and I believe pretty decent leaks saying they were working on it were out around 2019.
- hilariously 3mo agoYeah there was the steam link, but that was also way before 2019, so not sure what they could be referring to.
- amlib 3mo agoOf course it was, they are talking about the 2012~2015 (not sure about the exact date) steam machine that was released and failed. It took a long time for enough pieces to fall into place that would lead to the success of the steam deck and now the, too soon to call a success, launch of the new steam machine (2026).
- seba_dos1 3mo agoThe original Steam Machines were a line of pre-made PCs with SteamOS from various vendors. Valve made a reference machine, but it was never widely available. The device released today is their first product that's actually called "Steam Machine".
- SkitterKherpi 3mo agoI like the idea, but I am worried that it's yet another step on the road towards personal multi-purpose tower PCs built part by part no longer being a thing.
- Forgeties79 3mo agoWow that LTTlabs article was damning. The language is optimistic but this thing can’t possibly move steamdeck-numbers of units at $1100+ with that performance. DOA if you ask me.
- axus 3mo agoCan we use it for AI?
- dude250711 3mo agoYou have my permission. Just do not share any learnings. There is enough LLM trash around as is.
- ErneX 3mo agoThe Verge: Nearly twice the price of PS5 for PS5 performance. That’s rough.
- chrishare 3mo agoRough but true. This has PMF but not at this price.
- randomstate 3mo agoWhat a sad time to be buying a gaming PC, it seems that my 7yo rig bought for the same price is just as powerful.
- Peaches4Rent 3mo agoI say, be happy this means your 7 year old pc will be future proof for longer!
- Insanity 3mo agoHope the Frame is available for pre-order soon as well! I know I’m going to pay more than the HW was worth a year ago because of “AI”, but I’m really looking forward to that one.
- LoveMortuus 3mo agoSince it’ll have a mobile SoC with baked in memory I’m hoping that the price won’t be too inflated!
- tonymet 3mo agoA question for both developers & gamers – why are we continuing to push hardware capacity upward to untenable costs? 2013 games are awesome, I still play them. Why not continue targeting that capability and sell $250 consoles instead of $1250 consoles?
- dude250711 3mo agoYou are describing indie games.
- tonymet 3mo agonot quite. Indie games don't yet publish titles with the scope or ambition of 2013 AAA titles. I mean publishing titles with the polish & breadth of content of Arkham City , 2013 Tomb Raider , Titanfall 2 etc.
- d3Xt3r 3mo agoIndeed. I guess one reason is that PC gaming hardware was always a moving target, and so newer games and graphics APIs exploiting features found in newer hardware, and hardware makers enabling them (driven by capitalism) created a vicious cycle. Luckily the market did find a sort of stable target to aim for with the Steam Deck; many modern titles do aim to work well with those modest specs, such as Cyberpunk 2077, Baldur's Gate 3 etc. And when Blizzard launched Diablo IV on Steam, they explicitly announced that they had partnered with Valve to ensure the game was heavily optimised for the Deck and very playable on Day 1 (and it was indeed, from my experience). Hopefully we see more such examples with the Steam Machine. And I do agree with you that they could've gone with specs worth $250, but sadly with the current pricing crisis, $250 won't get much and I bet many people would've laughed at the specs. Even the Switch 2 now costs $500. :(
- tonymet 3mo agothat's what I'm working to figure out. The business model worked until around 2018 . Software could target gen + 1 , and things would balance out as hardware got cheaper. Now we have the inverse, where hardware is only going up, so why are software developers still pushing hardware into unattainable territory? The capitalism part actually made sense until it didn't
- dmitshur 3mo agoInteresting that its HDMI is 2.0 and not 2.1. Hopefully it's still possible (for those that really want) to connect modern 4K TVs at 120 hz via the DisplayPort 1.4 output.
- cassianoleal 3mo agoThat's likely because the HDMI Forum don't allow open source HDMI 2.1. [0] That said, there are signs that it's coming to the AMD drivers. [1] [2] [0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no-you-cant-make-an-open-source-hdmi-2-1-driver/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no... [1] https://www.techpowerup.com/348723/amd-readies-full-open-source-hdmi-2-1-support-for-linux https://www.techpowerup.com/348723/amd-readies-full-open-sou... [2] https://www.fosslinux.com/157755/hdmi-2-1-on-linux-complete-guide-to-amd-intel-and-nvidia-support.htm https://www.fosslinux.com/157755/hdmi-2-1-on-linux-complete-...
- Gigachad 3mo agoSeems like a case of under promising and planning to over deliver later. The hardware seems to be 2.1 but they haven't sorted out every feature in the drivers yet.
- ThatPlayer 3mo agoThe DisplayPort 1.4 instead of 2.1 is also interesting. The RX7000 series came with DisplayPort 2.1. DisplayPort 1.4 should be enough to do 4K@120hz. Not enough bandwidth for HDR at the same time though
- c0rruptbytes 3mo agoi'm in, i think prices are gonna suck anyway, i own a playstation and that shit sucks, i want to do more couch co-op with my partner and the steam library opens up so much indie games can i build a mini pc myself? probably but meh
- alexashka 3mo agoFor comparison - cloud gaming such as Nvidia's Geforce NOW is at ~20$/mo for 4k resolution with a monthly subscription one can cancel anytime. That's what, ~4-5 years of gaming on a superior GPU without the headaches of hardware failures or upfront cost of 1000$? Yikes Valve. The only folks buying gaming PCs these days are people eeking out an advantage in competitive 3D shooters or folks unaware of how far cloud gaming has come.
- snootypoot 3mo agoyikes, you will own nothing and be happy.
- punpunia 3mo agoCloud gaming is nowhere near the same experience as playing locally. There are a lot of games where milliseconds matter; it's big enough for me and my friends to try Geforce NOW and say, "No, this isn't good enough for a lot of games." You are kind of saying, "the bus only costs $4 a day, that's 30 years of using a car."
- xboxnolifes 3mo agoNo matter how superior the GPU, the latency from streaming will never be able to compete if you're outside of a major hub. I couldn't imagine playing a game by streaming inputs to a server 30ms away, which then streams those inputs another 30ms to the game server, and then having that round trip. 60ms screen delay and 120ms total delay.
- alexashka 3mo agoFair. There's a free 1080p Nvidia Geforce NOW tier anyone can try to see if latency is an issue for them and the games they play. One more data point - you're getting 1080p medium settings (for latest games) with a Steam Machine at ~1000$ upfront vs 4k max settings but 20-50ms added latency (for most people) for ~20$/mo without any longterm commitment. That's where we're at. I'm in the 2000$ upfront to get max settings, minimal latency camp myself but I consider that to be a niche, luxury purchase category.
- IAmGraydon 3mo agoMan...I'm certainly glad a happened to build a gaming beast rig in January of 2025. The RAM alone (64GB DDR5) would cost nearly as much as the entire rig now.
- jrepinc 3mo agoYeah I can feel you. I built mine just a few months before that terrible "AI" slop bubble scam hypte started. The only mistake I regret now is that I only went with 32 GiB of memory and said to myself I can upgrade later to 64 GiB if I need more. Well luckily most of the time I don't but yeah sometimes it could come in handy. Not for games but for other work. Ah well, still happy I was lucky to do it before the AIpocalypse
- binarycleric 3mo agoI was interested until I saw the price. Gonna pass on that.
- butlike 3mo agoThe only thing that I get with consoles that I don't get with the Steam Machine is a guarantee; a GUARANTEE that the games I buy will play on the system. If I but a game and it says PS5, I know it will play. A list of specs on the Steam Machine landing page does not absolve this for Valve.
- legitster 3mo agoOn the Steam store they've done a great job with their certification program for the Steam Deck. Also, I don't think their target market is people who don't own any Steam games yet. It's going to be people with already extensive back catalogues on Steam.
- butlike 3mo agoI disagree. I see this becoming an Xbox/PlayStation killer/contender.
- Peaches4Rent 3mo agoTrue. But if it doesn't work, a refund is quick and easy
- mariopt 3mo agoNow game devs can optimised their game for it and Steam Machine will get royal treatment. It's not unusual for a PS5 game to run slow on a PC with much better hardware due to not being optimised. The Nintendo switch is a great example, pretty old hardware but the games run well (for their intended experience). Many people are complaining about the price but you can bring you entire steam game collection and even use as a PC if you want, I sold my PS5 once it became a useless brick cause Sony prevents you from running Linux.
- legitster 3mo agoI'm tempted even at this price. I've tried various iterations of a gaming HTPC over the years, and they've all been pretty miserable. That lack of any reasonable or stable CEC solution this whole time so far has honestly been an oversized anchor this whole time. And I think Valve is doing a bit of a disservice not advertising it more.
- diseasedyak 3mo agoSame here, I know why it costs as much as it does, and that doesn't deter me. I want it for my living room, and to just mess around with. Will enter the lottery and hope my number gets picked!
- scott01 3mo agoYep, and I feel many commenters in this thread are comparing value propositions only in terms of specs. I’ve built a number of Mini-ITX cases, from 5L to 20L, and they are a pain to work with and maintain. In some cases it’s impossible to make a reasonable filtered airflow, so dust builds up very fast, and a teardown to do clean up is pretty annoying. Steam Machine looks very straightforward to maintain. And it’s also tiny and quiet.
- throwawayk7h 3mo agoI'm skeptical that they have working CEC. The steam deck, for example, does not. It also doesn't work reliably with many TVs. I'll believe it when I see it.
- tiahura 3mo agoDoes your tv not come with a remote?
- Lapsa 3mo ago[dead]
- raffael_de 3mo agoWhat is the appeal of Steam Machine as a dedicated gaming device? Isn't it going to be old in a few years and then you have to get rid of it because upgrading components isn't a viable option? Isn't that quite the opposite of anything that deserves to be associated with them term "hacker"?
- jpk2f2 3mo agoCompact, convenient, console-like experience that pulls games from your existing steam library. Same niche as a normal console, just not locked down in the same sense. If it weren't for the price I'd consider one, but I'd rather limp along my existing systems for as long as possible (and it sounds like SteamOS support for broader systems is improving).
- benoau 3mo ago> Isn't it going to be old in a few years and then you have to get rid of it because upgrading components isn't a viable option? I expect to get the rest of this decade out of my Steam Deck so IDK, very different to my normal expectations for a computer. The Steam Deck also defines a floor that will allow compatible games to be very performant on the Steam Machine so I think that will help the Steam Machine have a decent lifespan. I also think on some level we need to start resigning ourselves to getting 10+ years out of our computers!
- Gigachad 3mo agoI fully believe that the current PC hardware should be able to play essentially any game for a very long time. And the only reason we are being pushed to upgrade is because games are pushing poorly optimized graphics with mandatory features like ray tracing. No game play experience is impossible to achieve on the steam deck level hardware. I'm hopeful that with the insane hardware prices right now, studios will be forced to actually make their games work on older hardware.
- terribleperson 3mo agoWith current hardware prices, I'm not sure it'll be 'old' in gaming terms in a few years. I'm expecting the PS6 to be only a moderate upgrade over the PS5, not arrive for another year at least, and probabky take 5 years to overtake the PS5.
- snootypoot 3mo agothanks to sam altman and jensen huangs bubble this will cost 2500$ next year at this time
- ElijahLynn 3mo agoWhy so many USB-A ports and only one USB-C?
- ReliantGuyZ 3mo agoBecause most PC peripherals (mice, keyboards, microphones, controllers, USB headphones, detachable hard drives) are still USB-A on the other end of their cable. Yes this is changing, but in this case I appreciate them acknowledging the reality on the ground and not creating a situation where there are many dongles afoot.
- Gigachad 3mo agoMost peripherals these days have a fully detachable cable so it can be whatever you want. Usually they include some garbage 10 cent C to A cable in the box that you throw in the bin and replace with a good quality C to C cable. I could understand having both C and A on the machine, but having the one C port on the back seems like a mistake since that's the port I'd think you'd most want quick access to to plug in flash drives and such if you wanted to copy files from a phone or laptop. While the back ports are where you'd stick the fixed receivers.
- butlike 3mo agoThey should include the (entire) Valve game library for free with purchase for the first 6 months to drive adoption.
- xlmnxp 3mo agoI think Apple Mac Mini's prices make since now, only if you can install Linux on them
- nottorp 3mo ago16 Gb system ram... i'd bet that they originally planned it with 32. Note that you can order more storage but not more RAM. Although that may also be to force vendors to target this exact architecture. Also: oooh internal power supply! Someone thought about elegance too.
- koolala 3mo agoYou can upgrade the ram yourself.
- lowbloodsugar 3mo agoYou probably can. Not sure target market can.
- nottorp 3mo agoYou can, but why would you when all steam deck/machine certified games will run fine on this hardware? Unless you buy it because it's an x86 based mac mini. That may be true for quite a few early adopters, who knows.
- tough 3mo agoI lost access to my 10y old steam account due to their 2fa app getting auto-removed from my iPhone. I couldnt produce 10y visa statements from another country i lived in. Since then I just dont use steam, shame cause i like the hw
- saltamimi 3mo agoIt's just dead-on-arrival. I'm not convinced this hardware is "an extension of PC gaming, not a console" when the hardware is generations out of date. To credit Microsoft, Sony, and other players, the reality is that unless you are "in the game" for decades, you HAVE to provide a convincing differentiator from the other console markets. Steam had this with the Steam Deck and personally, I see the world moving to thin clients that play games via some remote desktop infrastructure. It makes no sense to buy this hardware even if it was 500-700 dollars. In my opinion, it would've been worth the money to just buy a gaming PC, put it in a garage, hidden room, etc with the networking gear, then stream it over the network to a Steam Link or using Apollo/Artemis/Moonlight/Parsec; anything. Tangential to this discussion: Steam is in the unique position to create a kernel anti-cheat. I know that's not popular. But they are the only ones with the install base AND ability to pull it off in a such a fashion that wouldn't be so god-awful. It's clear that multiplayer gaming isn't going to go away from kernel anti-cheat. It's also clear that developers are still going to target Windows-only with Steam Deck support as a best-kept basis. I don't see the Steam Machine/Deck as a competitor until they solve the kernel anti-cheat portion. Until then, it can play games that are older, not popular, or single-player which is a valid market but not one that I am a part of, anyway. EDIT: S) It's not meant for you. A) Sure. But you're telling me people are going to pay $1,050 to couch-potato games? I don't see that market and I'm not really sure how you would swing that. S) But it's on-par with the PS5. A) Which isn't a valid differentiator. The PS5 is 6 years old and not $1,050. Even if it was $600, that's not a good deal. S) It can be a regular PC. A) Sure. But you could also save money and put a regular PC behind or near your monitor or TV. S) I just want to game on hardware that's good enough. A) I get it, but there's so many cheaper options out there. Honestly, it'd be better value to get a Steam Deck, get a docking station, then hook that up to your TV than to buy this. Dead-on-arrival doesn't mean that this doesn't serve a niche. The niches this serves just really cannot be this compelling. You cannot tell me you have $1,050 laying around just to spend on this machine that comes with 512GB of storage. I don't get it. I don't get the market segment that does want this when there's so many better options on the market.
- buellerbueller 3mo ago>It's just dead-on-arrival...the hardware is generations out of date Some people say this same thing about the Nintendo Switch and its successor, but here we are, with the former closing in on highest selling console of all time, and the latter tracking above that.
- tsouth2 3mo ago[dead]
- __natty__ 3mo agoThe biggest win for me from this product is pushing developers to release on Linux.
- mariusor 3mo agoSadly I don't see that happening. Game devs have gotten used to having their cake and eating it too by developing for Windows and using Proton as a crutch to get the the Steam OS certification too. flibitijibibo was right: linux porters have probably gone out of business.
- Gigachad 3mo agoReleasing an actual Linux binary doesn't really matter that much. Proton is just a better experience. Even when games did include a linux build you were usually better off telling Steam to run the Windows one in Proton because it just ran faster with less bugs. A Windows binary is just more portable, more stable long term, and a better experience. What we actually need is developers testing their games on Proton to make sure they run well day, releasing graphics presets that run well on the hardware, and simply not blocking Linux through anti cheat.
- sedatk 3mo ago> A Windows binary is just more portable How the turntables…
- fooker 3mo agoWindows API and ABI has always been more portable than anything else. This is why Microsoft is a tech giant. You can take a windows binary from 1995 (actually even older) and run it reliably today. If it doesn't run and you are a commercial client, Microsoft will implement a compatibility hack for you in the latest windows code so your thing from 1995 will work. There is no parallel to this in the tech world so far. Linux gets around this by requiring you to recompile things, but recompiling old code along with old compilers and old libraries and all their dependencies is a nightmare.
- curvaturearth 3mo agoYes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer? This is glorious
- wxw 3mo agoEagerly awaiting the steam engine release.
- CodesInChaos 3mo agoWhat's the competition in the gaming-capable pre-built mini-PC category? How does it compare to these on price/performance?
- zerolines 3mo agono thank you.
- ErneX 3mo ago“starting with the SteamOS 3.8 release, you can put together your own Steam Machine using whatever PC parts you want” That’s great.
- mbmbn 3mo agoBut, will it properly support NVIDIA GPUs? That’s was the biggest pain point for years.
- bigyabai 3mo agoYep, Valve is working with Nvidia to create an installer with the proprietary Nvidia drivers bundled in. FWIW, Nvidia's Wayland experience has been very usable with post-550-Series drivers. If you have an Nvidia GPU that supports more recent drivers, chances are that it will work like a charm.
- jhack 3mo agoThe pricing is all out of sorts. Close to $500 more expensive than a PS5 for worse performance. I understand this is a PC and you can do other things with it, but if you're buying a gaming device to play games this is a horrible value.
- godshatter 3mo agoIf you have hundreds of Steam games you bought through sales events, then that changes the calculus a bit.
- nxc18 3mo agoDoes it? Do people actually play those games? I thought people just liked buying them and never playing the vast majority of them.
- HDBaseT 3mo agoWell, you can play them. Not playing the games you purchased sounds like an issue with you, rather than the system.
- Alchemista 3mo agoHow many people who are that invested in their Steam library don't already have a mid to upper range PC?
- simpaticoder 3mo agoAdd "in their living room" and the answer is low. But is it a good experience to game in the living room, on the couch? To me that's an open question that is (sadly) very expensive to answer.
- Kostic 3mo ago70% of the Steam users have a PC that's weaker than the Steam Machine[0]. These things will sell out, that's not the issue. The issue is that Valve probably won't have enough power to secure hardware deals to fulfill all the orders, thus limiting the growth of their hardware side. [0] https://www.techpowerup.com/342970/valve-claims-steam-machine-outperforms-70-of-current-gaming-pcs https://www.techpowerup.com/342970/valve-claims-steam-machin...
- IOT_Apprentice 3mo agoI’d just like to buy steamOS and install it on my ryzen 9 desktop and my Ryzen laptop.
- jrepinc 3mo agoNo need to wait and buy anything. Try any gaming focused Linux distributions and you can already have this. Check out CachyOS, Nobara, Bazzite ...
- grahar64 3mo ago"This item is not available in your region" :(
- Fraterkes 3mo agoIt's funny how this (imo) almost feels like an inherently inert topic to discuss: Is it dumb of them to do this? Not really, they got unlucky with the timing and they already designed the machines. Selling them below cost to subsidize steam-sales would probably create bad incentives for them. What will this mean for Valve's future? Nothing, they're still a relatively lean company with a money machine. Will this dissuade them from creating hardware in the future? Probably not, the Steamdeck was really succesfull and they've got more than enough resources to do a few failed experiments.
- fluoridation 3mo ago>Selling them below cost to subsidize steam-sales would probably create bad incentives for them. They could have sweetened the deal somehow, though. Maybe owners get a discount on games or something. It was bad timing, but it's not like they can't afford to take a bit of a hit for good will.
- gigatexal 3mo agoSmall, quiet, underpowered and some games you can’t play because of stupid kernel level anti cheat and expensive. Not quite DOA but not the hyped thing I was looking for.
- awill 3mo agoI wish they had a few different options with better specs. Or maybe a shell with the case/fan/mobo etc.. where you can just add CPU/GPU/RAM. I'd love that, and would be willing to pay extra to get something a bit more modern. I want a Steam Machine for my living room, but these specs are just terrible for 2026. According to Digital Foundry, this $1200 machine is worse than a $500 6-year-old base PS5.
- ctdinjeu5 3mo ago[dead]
- deng 3mo agoWell, when they announced it (7 months ago) I got laughed out of the room when I said this will be at least 1k$ because of the RAM crisis, and people quoted famous Youtuber "Moores Law is Dead" that this thing has a 300$ BOM and will be 600$ max, probably just 450$...
- tpurves 3mo agoAn unfortunate series of events that this thing ended up with these specs at 1,049.00. It was supposed to be cheap and cheerful. At first Steam took an opportunistic deal to buy up a bunch of near-obsolete-already chips from AMD to build a low-cost box around. Then years of delays and an explosion in DRAM and SSD prices and here we are. 4 year old chip design on an equivalently old process node, not that unlike nvidia selling 2-3 year old chips as the spark. Thanks to AI boom, consumer market really just getting the warmed-over leftovers here from AMD and NVDIA.
- sedatk 3mo agoInsant buy for me because as an owner of a PS5 and Xbox One X, I’ve been using my Steam Deck a lot for gaming on TV using the dock. It works really well. This is just the dream version of that setup.
- jrepinc 3mo agoSimilar here. I have the PS4 here and rarely even use PlayStation these days. Mostly it is just PC (now runing Linux even for gaming) and Steam Deck. I was thinking about upgrading to PS5 a year or two ago bu then did some calculations and it is more expensive then it looks at first (PlayStation+ is in practive not optional and it is 72 €/year at minimum, games are quite more expensive themselves than on the PC, and well there is a lot less choice in games). So I have basically just started moving my game library to Steam and PC (GoG and similar other sources store), just makes more sense with PC and now Steam Machine makes inot the a console form factor while still having all the power and freedom of PC. So yeah an easy decision to go with Steam Machine. Sure price of the hardware itself is not exactly very attractive but yeah not so much different to what is normal these days in PC hardware (fsck all these terrible "AI" slop scam bubble corporations). Would love to see a cheaper bare-bones edition without RAM and SSD inside but even without this I think Steam machine will be quite a nice replacement for PS4.
- simpaticoder 3mo agoMost people don't know if they'll like the living-room PC gaming experience and at this price not enough people will even try. That's sad to me. It could be that with the right hardware and software the experience would be even better than a console, and if that happens then all the other good features of the Steam Machine (it's relative openness, the fact that you own it, etc) could shine. But without proving that people really like the experience, the rest is irrelevant, and lots of early adopters were just priced out of the experiment.
- janaagaard 3mo agoWhy all USB-A ports instead of USB-C? (I counted 4 USB-A and just one USB-C.)
- Narishma 3mo agoBecause most peripherals that are likely to be used with it are still USB-A. Things like mice and keyboards and gamepads and headphone and whatnot.
- Gigachad 3mo agoBudget reasons would be my guess. The USB-C port here is 10 gbit while the USB-A ports on the machine are USB 2.0(front) and 5gbit(rear) speeds. While they could have and imo should have just put usb 2.0 C ports on it, users have an expectation that USB-C ports are fully functional high speed ports. On most machines you can plug something in to any USB-C port on a device and they all work the same.
- Mr_Eri_Atlov 3mo agoDamn, that's expensive for PS5 performance
- gymbeaux 3mo agoCirca 2013 you could get a Steam Machine (made by Alienware/Dell) - the Alienware Alpha - for something like $300. Granted they were clearing them out at that time, but $300 was a no-brainer when consoles cost about the same and had significantly weaker hardware. Now we're expected to pay almost 2x the cost of a current-gen console for what is probably near-identical console performance? Doesn't make sense. I appreciate Valve being in the hardware business and I understand that inflation/the AI bubble are hurting PC components but a grand for this is a terrible value. I mean let's see what the benchmarks look like, but "Semi-custom AMD Zen 4 6C / 12T" sounds like what's in the PS5 and Xbox One. Actually those have 8C/16T CPUs.
- sylens 3mo agoThe 2013 Steam Machine is as different from this device as it could possibly be. Proton didn't exist back then and Steam Input was still in (relative) infancy.
- gymbeaux 3mo agoBoth are console-sized x86 based computers that can run Windows or Linux. Both even lack a 3.5mm headphone jack (maybe that’s too old for a 2026 computer though). Both have a low TDP that means they will never compete with a traditional gaming computer. I’m not sure what Proton has to do with anything.
- let_rec 3mo ago> Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer? Valve gets it
- keoneflick 3mo agoDisappointing to see the release and still no implementation of multi-user sign on for local multiplayer games (like all true consoles). As I noted when announced, it's something that doesn't get headlines, but a real barrier for enjoyment for a console-like PC. Hate being stuck with 'guest 1' and 'guest 2' or whatever. Many games want each player to progress and without true multi sign on, it just doesn't work. Hence games dropping local multiplayer on PC.
- x______________ 3mo agoDoes anyone have a rundown of Steam OS?
- lowbloodsugar 3mo agoPS5 performance at PS5 Pro price to target Nintendo Switch demographic?
- catigula 3mo agoHonestly seems kind of pointless in an era of cloud gaming :)
- branon 3mo agoI respect what Valve is doing here and I loved the Steam Deck but a prebuilt desktop PC with 16 GB system memory and 512 GB storage for $1,000+ is insulting. Those are specs that belong on a laptop or a lowend console offering like the Series S. I think this product is going to be hamstrung by its attempts to present as a midpoint between a PC and a console. The way this is being achieved seems to be by selling a device with the specifications of a console but the price tag of a PC. Valve already did the "this is a lowend device and that's okay" thing with the Steam Deck, and got away scot-free because nobody expected a handheld and people didn't have a ton of preconceived notions. The Deck was also a better value since it was (prior to the price hike) priced reasonably for its specifications. The desktop PC and/or living room console modalities are both significantly more stratified. People have solidly defined expectations about price-to-performance-to-usability ratios in both of these sectors, and I worry this doesn't go far enough in any particular direction to meet the demands of either market. Leaves me wondering who exactly this is for.
- ajs1998 3mo agoIt's been a while since I built a PC but that price seems very fair
- aeturnum 3mo agoThis device does sit between mac-mini-esq lower power devices and compact enthusiast builds and, like the Steam Deck, it's an attempt to build a new segment. That said, if you think paying $1000 for this kind of hardware is some kind of exception, I think you should go take a look at what you can get on the prebuilt gaming PC market. You get a little less because the Steam Machine has a small footprint, but if you're looking for a nice little machine you don't overpay by much.
- user43928 3mo agoNo it does not. The Late 2024 M4 Mac mini benchmarks x1.6 faster in ST and 2x in MT. The Mac mini costs $600.
- 3mo ago
- LoveMortuus 3mo agoI don’t understand why it doesn’t have a headphones jack…
- dtj1123 3mo agoIs there anything actually worth playing in the steam frame? The hardware looks incredible, but my understanding is that the current state of VR games is less than brilliant.
- j2kun 3mo ago> Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer? Indeed, thankful for that.
- LoveMortuus 3mo agoI was hoping that Steam Machine + Steam Frame would be around 1000€ or there about.
- thelonelyborg 3mo agowould be amazing.
- nekusar 3mo agoSigh. I've been in line for a Steam controller since May 8. Not a peep. I dont have much hope in getting that, let alone this.
- kryllic 3mo agoMy first thought was "I wonder how this would work as a small-factor game dev machine" and lo and behold, there is a clip of someone working in Godot running a debug version of their game. Very cool to see Valve market this as Linux PC rather than strictly gaming.
- fluoridation 3mo agoIt's even worse value for productivity, though, because the CPU is purposely throttled to prevent overloading the thermal solution and the PSU.
- morserer 3mo agoI can't find evidence for this anywhere. Can you provide a source?
- fluoridation 3mo agoIt's in the Gamers Nexus review, around the 23-minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QzlDewigE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QzlDewigE The CPU hard-throttles to 4 GHz after exactly 8 minutes of sustained load.
- LoganDark 3mo agoIs sustained 4 GHz really so bad?
- fluoridation 3mo agoThe point is there are better-value options if all you want is a SFF PC for development work. 16 GB is also pretty tight for development, come to think of it.
- CafeRacer 3mo agoIs this US only?
- d3Xt3r 3mo agoAccording to Tom's Hardware, it's North America, the United Kingdom, the European Union, and Australia. https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/console-gaming/valve-opens-steam-machine-reservations-details-usd1-049-starting-price-randomized-queue-to-stop-scalpers-and-limited-inventory https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/console-gaming/valv...
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- flocked 3mo agoCrazy. A Mac Mini costing nearly half as much as based on the released benchmarks, the same performance playing games with Crossover.
- asdff 3mo agoNot a lot of games play nice with crossover. I wish I could dual boot windows on this m3 mbp like I could on my old 2012 model. I feel like tf2 performance is actually worse on kegworks with the m3 pro than it was when I would dual boot windows 10 on the 2012 computer. So many lag spikes. A bunch of explosions will go off and the game will stall for a moment and you just get fragged. There are plenty of games that also won't let you play multiplayer at all due to anticheat not playing nice with wine. "native" macos games on the m series aren't even that much better because they usually just run through a rosetta layer that seems to lock FPS at only 40. Fans will spin full bore because the game is so unoptimized.
- nottorp 3mo agoWill Crossover survive the dropping of Rosetta 2 that is coming?
- minraws 3mo ago1050$ I am very sad about the price. Like orders of magnitude sad. I would have hoped for ~600$ with the economic realities maybe 800$, but 1000$+ just feels like too much doesn't valve have like a multi-billion dollar muscle couldn't the folks make it a tad cheaper... I guess we can only blame the current market conditions at the end of the day.
- delbronski 3mo agoDammit, I don’t think this is going to be as popular as the Steam Deck at this price. I hope they don’t shelf it and I can buy this in a few years for a reasonable price once the big AI labs go bankrupt.
- jrepinc 3mo agoI would love to see Valve release a cheaper bare-bones edition without RAM and SSD.
- sssilver 3mo agoI don't understand the specs of this computer. At the end of the day, will this "Semi-custom CPU" and "Semi-custom GPU" run modern AAA games at 4K?
- Peaches4Rent 3mo ago4k with upscaling is the promise.. don't know if it will hold
- otto-riz 3mo agoI can't find anything that indicates the expected wait if you get in the reservation queue. Maybe I've been burned by too many Kickstarters.
- oliver66677 3mo agoThis is Framework level pricing. Provides some of the worst value for money on the market ($1,049 with no controller, additional $70 for controller): worse than the PS5 ($599), Xbox Series X ($599), Switch 2 ($449), and DIY PCs.
- Peaches4Rent 3mo agoFramework provides adequate price to value, what are you saying? This doesn't have the best value
- Gigachad 3mo agoThe MacBook neo is cheaper, faster, and higher quality in every way.
- bigyabai 3mo agoThe iPad Mini is cheaper than the Macbook Neo, is more efficient, and has more apps. Comparing the Machine to the Framework to the Mac is an Apples-to-Grapes-to-Oranges comparison.
- Gigachad 3mo agoBoth of them are laptops. The average person buying a laptop basically just needs a web browser and some office tools that will run on either. But they will run better on the macbook neo for less money. It's a no brainer choice right now unfortunately.
- bigyabai 3mo agoWell, let's defer to the market share statistics, as usual. We hear this line every few years, but the market knows what it wants. iPads are almost a larger market than Macbooks, at this point.
- sedatk 3mo ago
- smcleod 3mo agoYikes twice the price of a PS5 in Australia! I will still be buying one though. I'm looking forward to moving away from Sony after having a PlayStation in my living room for 16+ years. I really like Steam's ethics / how they treat their customers - and the steam deck (while under powered) has been fantastic.
- notnmeyer 3mo agoanyone talking about hw performance is not the intended market. if you have a gaming pc, like building systems, etc, you are not the intended market. this is for folks who want steam games in their living room and dont want to build their own system.
- xtracto 3mo agoI've built my own PC several times and am a hardcore Linux enthusiast. However at this point in my life, the best gaming experience i get is from XBox live/online subscription. I got to the browser, click on a game and start playing without caring for anything else. The most complicated thing i have to do is connect an Xbox gamepad for games that require it (I prefer keyboard +mouse whenever possible). I wish Steam had something like that for the games I've bought. I've got several games in the library, I cant play some of them because currently I have a Mac m4.
- notnmeyer 3mo agoyeah, so this was exactly my scenario. i have an xbox and ps5, but bought a steamdeck about 6 months ago to play indie and windows games... its been utterly amazing. i dont care about specs, or graphics, or framerates (within reason). playing on steam still feels like it did when i was young. maybe im misunderstanding, but you exactly like the person that a steam machine is for.
- baby 3mo agoThe deck is such a good console compared to the switch and switch 2 that I can’t be stop being happy that they released this now. How is Valve, a tiny company, doing so much better than Nintendo?
- chrisco255 3mo agoThey're not. The Deck is hundreds of dollars more expensive than the Switch 2. The Switch 1 sold 155 million units, making it the second most popular console of all time. Switch 2 is also selling very well.
- bigyabai 3mo agoI don't think by "better" they meant financially. It sounds like they own both consoles and are surprised to replace their Switch use with a Deck. Which tracks, to my wit; my Switch 1 is a buyers remorse product. If I knew that a Linux x86 handheld was eventually getting made, I'd have never bought it.
- chrisco255 3mo agoThe Steam Deck is an ok PC gaming machine, but most PC games aren't optimized for console experience. There's even quite a few Windows games that don't work or have bugs on the Deck. Meanwhile all Switch games are made for that platform and there are a ton of exclusives you can't get on PC. Glad each one has a niche, but Switch is an order of magnitude (or two) more successful than the Steam Deck.
- baby 3mo agoSounds like you never tried the deck and the switch. So many games are unplayable on the switch besides nintendo official games. I dropped split fiction because it ran so horribly on the switch
- TiredOfLife 3mo agoSwitch 2 is faster, lighter and cheaper than Steam Deck.
- Peaches4Rent 3mo agoThe big problem isn't that this pc is weak, it's that games aren't well optimized
- panicinducer 3mo agoYou could build the equivalent PC for quite a bit cheaper or a PS5 and 7 full price AAA games for the same price. No way this is a console-killer, but will be a nice novelty for Gaben fans for whom $1049 is not a significant amount of money.
- SoMomentary 3mo agoJust today I was thinking about threading the needle on that and making my own Steam Machine with an AMD BC-250 board. Maybe I still will, it'd be a 10th the price and I do love to tinker.
- cloudengineer94 3mo agoNot sure who the target audience is for this.. indie gamers? But yeah I saw the news piece about the 750$ before memory craziness set in, still a lot.
- Aeolun 3mo agoThe Japan situation is so fucking weird. Why can I only buy Steam hardware from a website that someone seems to have set up on a weekend, and where half the inventory is out of stock…?
- zero0529 3mo agoI hope this is successful, like it or not this might be one of the best ways that Linux can reduce the Microsoft Windows monopoly. I would actually go as far as to say that it has to succeed.
- chrysoprace 3mo agoThat's my hope as well. I don't need/want a Steam Machine, but I want it to succeed, especially if it forces better support for anti-cheat. Maybe it'll become a cheaper entry-level machine in a couple of years if they can keep producing them.
- nelox 3mo agoSteam Engine, surely?
- jokoon 3mo agoSo SteamOS is just arch linux? I guess there are important differences?
- wetpaws 3mo ago[dead]
- jrepinc 3mo agoYup it is Arch Linux, that basically boots into Steam client with Big Picture mode. And if you switch to desktop mode you get a standard Linux with KDE Plasma desktop environment.
- d3Xt3r 3mo agoIt is immutable and has versioned image releases (unlike Arch, which is mutable and rolling release).This adds stability, makes the system less prone to breakage, and easy to rollback (factory reset). Ans of course, the biggest visible difference is that this boots directly into Steam big-picture mode, where you operate the UI using a controller (although it does support KB+mouse), which makes it ideal to use connected to a TV, like a regular gaming console.
- Gigachad 3mo agoSteamOS is highly customized and managed by Valve. It doesn't have the Arch repos or pacman. Updates to the OS come from Valve in large releases rather than per package. All apps installed either come through Steam or Flatpak. So it's Arch in the same way Android could be called Linux.
- jokoon 3mo agoso the available software is a bit limited then I can still customize and configure things, or not really? does that mean I can't customize the OS, like shortcuts?
- Gigachad 3mo agoThe way SteamOS works is a bit weird. By default the OS partition is read only, you can do whatever in your user directory. But they let you unlock it to make whatever changes you want. I’m pretty sure that this OS partition gets completely wiped every update though so your customisations will have to be reapplied.
- RyanOD 3mo agoI like this randomized reservation approach. What if, in addition, a nominal fee was charged just to have a chance to purchase a Steam Machine? Let's say $3 (or whatever). Then, all that money is donated to an organization like Extra Life or Game for Love? In that way, someone with 5000 scalper accounts knows they're going to be out $15k just to get in line. And everyone else who is trying to buy just one isn't sweating the nominal fee. I'm genuinely asking.
- pclowes 3mo agoI really appreciate Gabe's approach of treat the user as THE USER not the thing we are trying to use. Very tired of every interaction with every tech company and subscription service making me feel used rather than served.
- bigtex 3mo agoFor reference to the current prices of consoles: Nintendo Switch 2 $449.99 Xbox Series S (512GB/1TB) $379.99 – $449.99 Xbox Series X (1TB) $649.99 PlayStation 5 Slim (Digital) $599.99 PlayStation 5 Slim (Disc) $649.99 PlayStation 5 Pro $899.99 From reading posts on X/Twitter, I got the feeling that PC Gaming enthusiasts truly believed this was going to compete with console gaming and those players would flock to the utopia that is Steam OS and managing hardware. At this price I believe its way too expensive to temp console gamers and Steam supporters will probably balk about the specs to price ratio.
- Eji1700 3mo agoThe main market to me is going to be ibuypower people, so a console gamer who wants to jump to PC but doesn't want to self build. I've been screwing around on pcpartpicker on and off for today, and I don't see a clean way to get steam machine specs for less than $800 if you build it yourself, and closer to $900 if i'm being honest (and in no way will it be SFF). I think the big thing will be if steam can commit to this like the deck and get better performance over time. Consoles out perform their hardware thanks to lots of optimization, enforced by knowing you're stuck with/always going to have the same specs. The steam machines success to me pivots completely on if they can capture a market of customers who want to jump from console and don't want to become hardware savvy (which has not gotten as easy as it should). Compatibility and performance in the next 6 months is going to determine a lot. And if someone better than me wants to check my PC Part picker work: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/HCtXkD https://pcpartpicker.com/list/HCtXkD I've got $766 for CPU/MB/HDD/GPU/RAM.
- westpfelia 3mo agoNo case. No custom made motherboard that supports HDMI CEC. Lack of developers specifically developing around valve hardware like they did with the SteamDeck.
- bigyabai 3mo ago> Lack of developers specifically developing around valve hardware Like what? The only "specific" thing that comes to mind are the boot animations and the Decky plugins (which should work with all SteamOS-like distros). All of the optimizations, "Steam Deck" graphics settings, controller mapping support, Linux-friendly anticheat and more works on any Linux PC. Almost nothing is bespoke to the Deck, by design.
- dejan_kocic 3mo agoit would be nice if steam os could be downloaded officially
- next_xibalba 3mo agoI'd love to know how the demographics of steam's actual users compare against those represented on the marketing page (https://store.steampowered.com/hardware/steammachine https://store.steampowered.com/hardware/steammachine).
- Acrobatic_Road 3mo agoSorry Valve. I know its not really your fault but I refuse to give you my money this time. Instead I'm executing plan B: converting my Steam Deck into a workstation. It's the best hardware I have and while it can't play everything smoothly what it can run well is practically endless.
- ddxv 3mo agoI feel like Framework really missed this boat with their desktop PC they released last year. They could have used that + a gamepad to have captured so much of this.
- bgdkbtv 3mo agoI will definitely be getting this regardless of price or specs. I'm no hard core gamer and I play Balatro, Vampire Survivors and occasional online Halo 2 with friends. This is perfect. Too bad YouTube doesn't have a proper API for building 3rd party clients. I would love to build one and use it on my SteamDeck and on the big TV with the SteamMachine.
- LowLevelKernel 3mo ago$1000 !!!
- Lucasoato 3mo ago> Steam Machine, like our other hardware products, is made up of many components that we source from manufacturers around the world. The price at which we sell our hardware is a direct result of the cost of these components. We felt like we had a good understanding of how those costs might change over time when we first started sourcing them for Steam Machine back in 2023. That understanding was born from the many years of data we all have about the evolution of PC hardware prices – primarily, that it tends to get cheaper over time as new technology arrives. > Over the past year or so, that has changed quickly and significantly, most visibly for RAM and storage components. There are a variety of reasons, all of which are affecting hardware products everywhere. The overall effect is that our original goal for the price of Steam Machine is no longer viable. So the prices we're sharing today reflect the state of the world for manufacturing; or, more accurately, it reflects the price of the components as we've secured them over the past 6 months. Take notes about the tone, the communication style, the honesty that you can feel by reading those words. There are no problem that can’t be alleviated (if not solved) with good communication to your customer, and you can bet that Steam knows damn well theirs!
- giancarlostoro 3mo agoI have a feeling it would have cost drastically less if we didn't have a RAM / storage crisis, which is really sad.
- NothingAboutAny 3mo agothere's probably ~$150 in the ram and ~$100 in the SSD alone, not to mention everything else. we gotta have data-centers though because, uh.. well, we gotta have em.
- dannyw 3mo agoTo a large extent, all these datacenters are being built because people want tokens. Do you use something like Opus or GPT5.5 for coding? Well, you're part of the demand. If you don't, then yes, as a PC enthusiast I'm sad as well. But like, it's a little bit ironic to be complaining about RAM prices if you've got 5 sub-agents hacking away.
- Telaneo 3mo agoOof. Great machine. Wrong price. I'll be getting one eventually either way, hopefully after the RAMpocalypce has ended, just because I enjoy collecting consoles and games, and I want to support Linux through SteamOS. I'm sure I can find a place for it in my life, but it's not something I need.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- bryanhogan 3mo agoMy prediction was that they would bundle it with Steam store money or other games to bring the "end price" below a 1000 Euro, surprised to see I was wrong!
- trafficrider 3mo ago[dead]
- pseudosavant 3mo agoI think this put this all in perspective for me. If Microsoft came out with this exact hardware (with Windows but still open and you could load SteamOS on it), at this price point, people mock Microsoft to death about how this product is a joke.
- righthand 3mo agoIt’s called the Xbox and the reason it wasn’t at this price point is that Microsoft has the capital power to subsidize the cost at risk of the Xbox division not being profitable. Valve doesn’t have such freedoms on hardware it seems.
- pseudosavant 3mo agoThe XSX costs 43% less than the cheapest Steam Machine, even though it has twice the SSD and includes a controller. Microsoft isn't subsidizing it that far.
- righthand 3mo agoThat’s a Nth generation device that has a built out hardware pipeline. I assure you that Microsoft still subsidizes the devices and has lowered the cost on later models through hardware supply chain build out agreements. What are you trying to prove? That Microsoft has hardware pricing magic?
- bigyabai 3mo ago> with Windows but still open and you could load SteamOS on it You're describing Every Computer Ever.
- pseudosavant 3mo agoAs opposed to an Xbox, which doesn't do that. But the XSX also costs 43% less.
- 3mo ago
- sheepscreek 3mo ago[dead]
- Stevvo 3mo agoMight be the first hardware Valve has priced correctly. All previous hardware was underpriced leaving it unavailable for months/years on end.
- righthand 3mo agoA Framework Desktop is the better deal and more capable machine IMO. Also upgradeable.
- JoshTriplett 3mo agoOne disappointment: you have to have already made a purchase, which doesn't help if owning a Steam OS machine is the first time you will be buying and playing anything from Steam.
- casey2 3mo agoDOA lol, I built a computer 6 years ago for less with 64GB of DDR5. I can't imagine anyone buying this. Maybe they can hold out for 5 years and add some more ram and sell it for 25% in true Steam fashion.
- osti 3mo agoIf AI is so good, then why don't we have perfect compatibility layers between OS's for games yet?
- mberning 3mo agoI really don’t get the bellyaching about the price. They are going to sell as many of these as they can make, so there is no sense in subsidizing the price. Maybe in the future they will, especially if Windows continues on it’s current trajectory.
- rvz 3mo agoUnfortunately, the only game that matters this year is GTA 6, and it only plays on consoles such as the PS5 and the Xbox. So unless it releases on the Steam Machine or PC, then the sales of the Steam Machine are going to be really poor. That is even with the price of the Steam Machine being more expensive as well. You might as well buy a PS5 Pro or Xbox at the point.
- crossroadsguy 3mo agoI wish there was a clear Mac Mini alt. With lots of drawbacks of the mac mini fixed e.g. a very simple way to connect to tablets (iPads, Androids tabs) as screen and ability to connect to any keypad and mouse, natively (I am sure a linux mini pc box will have that already - at least I may not need a "connector hardware"). I really like the idea of travelling around with my iPad but have a very small but sufficiently powerful computer tucked away in my bag (along with needed cables) if I need it (because, well, Apple is not going to let their iPads unleash their capabilities). There are some around (even in my geography) but all of them seem to be half-heartedly done.
- hinkley 3mo ago> We think of Steam Machine as an extension of PC gaming, not as a console. But is that really so bad? I don't want to say 'sell it at a loss' but loss leaders don't need to bankrupt their companies in order to do their job. If you sold them at or below cost then people would figure out how to buy 100's and make server farms out of them. Particularly for this hardware. The awkwardness of the hardware being made up for by the subsidy from the manufacturer. But pricing them at break-even would still be good business.
- theredleft 3mo agoabsolutely amazing value
- yashthakker 3mo ago[dead]
- juleiie 3mo agoI don’t know for who this is if you can easily build a better mini pc yourself for cheaper It’s dead on arrival This is gonna be such a litmus paper test for the most fervent valve suckers
- danielabinav160 3mo agocool
- amatecha 3mo agoSo awesome. If I needed/wanted a gaming PC or "family TV" gaming machine, I'd snag this for sure. I've had the Steam Deck since launch and it's really quite well-executed and I've logged hundreds of hours on it. SteamOS is totally decent and the level of polish has been continually improved. The price for the Machine is totally acceptable considering the market currently, particularly considering these [0][1][2] would be my options if I had $1500 CAD to spend on a gaming PC right now -- all machines with 8gb VRAM GPUs and 16GB of RAM. [0] https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX00135058 https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX00135058 [1] https://www.canadacomputers.com/en/armoury-gaming-desktops/267853/armoury-amd-ryzen-7-5700-radeon-rx-9060-xt-16gb-ram-1tb-ssd-w11h-rtaru00162.html https://www.canadacomputers.com/en/armoury-gaming-desktops/2... [2] https://www.canadacomputers.com/en/gaming-desktop-pcs/275404/msi-codex-r2-intel-i5-14400f-rtx-5060-16gb-ram-1tb-ssd-win11h-codex-r2-b14nvl5-447us.html https://www.canadacomputers.com/en/gaming-desktop-pcs/275404...
- dimgl 3mo agoI'm gonna be real here. I think they should have cancelled this release.
- nazgu1 3mo agoWe have pricey PCs, consoles and other electronics, but at least we have AI
- foo12bar 3mo agoIt was never about us.
- OtomotO 3mo agoSadly not a good fit for my needs. My 2021 machine is still more powerful (apart from the GPU maybe, but that one is from 2022 and has 12GB memory) and I can't justify buying this for that amount. Would've loved to have a dedicated machine for gaming, but alas.
- donkeylazy456 3mo agoweaker hardware than BC-250 compute card. volvo what is going on?
- numlock86 3mo agoI have doubts in their reservation process, though. I signed up for the controller reservation as soon as it started (after they just gave the first batch to scalpers) and it was mentioned that they prefer genuine accounts. My account is over 22 years old at this point and has regular transactions going on. Countless games with countless hours, almost daily activity. I even got the Index back in the day and still use it. Anyway, upon registration I was informed that my account was "not eligible". You are welcome, I guess.
- prartichoke 3mo agoDo you have an active VAC ban? If not, it may be worth contacting them to ask why, they're quite responsive
- numlock86 3mo ago> Do you have an active VAC ban? No, and never had one. My account is as clean as pristine as it gets. I already mailed them but never got an answer.
- sevenseacat 3mo agoHonestly, it seems pretty enticing for a PC-just-for-gaming-but-not-a-“gaming-PC”, if you get my meaning. I have no need for it right now, but when the next big Windows-only game comes out, it’ll be pretty tempting. (The last Windows gaming I did was when The Elder Scrolls Online came out…)
- Cort3z 3mo ago"This item is not available for purchase in your region" This is such a bummer. I live in the European Economic Area (EEA)
- borosuxks 3mo agoWe have too good consumer protection laws for Valve. Makes my view of them negative, so I'll go elsewhere when I can.
- hamburgererror 3mo agoI hope they will add the expected performances for a given game on the store pages, just like the required specs are specified.
- rm30 3mo agothe title is misleading, somebody could think that a startup launched a new steam based machine after the Hormuz closure
- musha68k 3mo agoWith those unfortunate specs a used PS5 + Steam Deck OLED is the better deal to me. HDR on that screen is just something to behold and UHD-BD drive is the cherry on top. https://github.com/streetpea/chiaki-ng https://github.com/streetpea/chiaki-ng I could see myself buying the undeniably beautiful GabenCube at spec if the price were at or only slightly above SW2/PS5 level; as an additional device to play the outlier game that is exclusive to "PC" and Steam Deck / Macbook Pro not delivering enough oomph for it to run satisfactorily.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3mo agoI know many people keep pointing at PS5 as the competition, but I'll throw this in: I can buy a game on PC and play it on the go, I don't have to buy anything else. The Steam Deck+a PC places Steam in a different league than the PS5 (for now). Nintendo Switch 2 is way closer, however the games are different (I don't love Nintendo games). Finally for those of us with a big Steam library and kids, buying a Steam machine or a Steam Deck means I will spend ZERO on games (I can confirm)
- fragmede 3mo agoUntil the next Steam sale. Steam Summer Sale is coming up!
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3mo agoLol! I know right? Jokes aside, I figured out techniques to avoid buying all together, which is great. I already spent plenty.
- TiredOfLife 3mo ago> The Steam Deck+a PC places Steam in a different league than the PS5 (for now). It places it in same league as PS Portal and PS5
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3mo agoNo the PlayStation portal streams, there is an enormous difference there. I can already stream any steam game on any android and iphone out there
- utopiah 3mo agoWondering how it’d benchmark against https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/TUXEDO-Nano-Pro-Gen14-AMD.tuxedo https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/TUXEDO-Nano-Pro-Gen14-AMD... in an even smaller form factor and similar price range for specs.
- unrevokeapp 3mo agoHonestly, it seems overpriced (as expected). But it's much smaller than PS5 and according the first reviews it runs much cooler. Still not my cup of tea.
- dbg31415 3mo agoThe original NES cost $179 at launch, or about $550 today. And for premium games we spent $45, or about $150 today.
- theknarf 3mo agoI wish it was available in my country.
- wraptile 3mo agothere are re-shipping services that will re-ship the item to you for an extra fee. The fee can be quite high though.
- calini 3mo agoMan it's so unfortunate that this launch coincided with the component crisis, forcing the prices to be just outside the range of people that were debating between getting this and getting a console, it would've made so much more of an impact if the prices were $200 lower.
- mateioprea 3mo agowell, is there a better alternative for the money? I'm asking because i'm in the market for this
- bryanhogan 3mo agoI'd say that heavily depends on what you see as alternatives. For some the Steam Machine is filling an unmet need in the market, for others it's a more expensive gaming pc or gaming console. As we are on HackerNews, there's a good chance that you can build / setup your own pc with better specs which you might want to look into and then decide.
- bookofjoe 3mo agohttps://poshmark.com/listing/Valve-Steam-DeckHDMI-64-GB-Black-Brand-New-Sealed-6a1b55312061e42ca7df593b?utm_source=gdm&utm_campaign=23908509003&campaign_id=23908509003&ad_partner=google&gskid=&gcid=&ggid=&gdid=c&g_network=x&enable_guest_buy_flow=true&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23918000611&gbraid=0AAAAADwcDC_Wh3rZ7DAyil2fL5TpNp7gV&gclid=CjwKCAjw3ejRBhAdEiwADkqPnypxeM7-rekO2e8JlLirFJ2VFWnIOLP7yYzhWgMFQjUn6it8psRZWRoC6bwQAvD_BwE https://poshmark.com/listing/Valve-Steam-DeckHDMI-64-GB-Blac...
- DanielHB 3mo agoI think the steam machine is more important as a benchmark for 3rd parties developing their own Steam OS based systems. Although I am sure Valve would be happier if it was popular on its own merits too.
- brachkow 3mo agoIt is interesting to know how it compares in terms of performance to 500$ Mac Mini with Crossover? Of course Crossover support is worse than Proton, so it will not be viable alternative in real gaming scenarios. But Proton is made by Crossover team. And Apple hardware is 2x cheaper.
- 360MustangScope 3mo agoDue to the memory and storage crisis, you actually cannot buy the $500 mac mini anymore. It starts at $799
- brachkow 3mo agoJust checked what your claim, and... its even worse – 1000$ in my part of EU (m4 + 16gb, aka base configuration)
- Etheryte 3mo agoYour mileage may vary, but I've never gotten reasonable performance out of Crossover. I have a decked out Mac for development and most of the games I've tried in Crossover still need you to turn the settings to damn near lowest possible.
- bigyabai 3mo agoIf Mac Minis were viable for gaming, everyone would get one. Unfortunately, Crossover has very spotty support and GPTK starts fraying at the seams on CPU-heavy titles. The upcoming Steam Frame will be the real make-or-break moment for ARM PC gaming. Up until now, nobody has seriously attempted to make ARM work for the "Steam Deck" segment of users.
- frollogaston 3mo agoToo bad there's no Proton for Mac. Ironically the Windows Steam itself is the hardest thing to run in plain Wine on Mac. There are lots of games that work fine in Wine by themselves, but just getting Steam to launch them is a mess. The fact that my Mac can run any games at all is just a happy accident. That's not what I got it for.
- fithisux 3mo agoIs it supporting ReactOS as rumored?
- throwaway2037 3mo agoI saw a bunch of reviews (written and YouTube). It seems that the Valve development team behind this product was disappointed by the final cost. If this machine was built 2-3 years ago, can anyone estimate how much cheaper the cost would be? I assume this biggest price hikes have come from memory (RAM) and storage (NVMe).
- lemiffe 3mo agoaround 800 usd according to LTT’s video (near the end)
- sylware 3mo agoThe bus is not PCIe between the system and the GPU?
- mikelevins 3mo agoI was interested in the Steam machine, but I might not get one because I cannot log in to my Steam account, for no reason that I know. Steam's web-based process for resetting my password always gets stuck after successful completion of the captcha, regardless of which device or OS I use to do it, the accessible-to-Google procedures for getting past that blockage have not worked, and the email address that one could once use in this situation now just sends an autoreply that says no one is monitoring it anymore. So I have exhausted all of the obvious routes for logging into my Steam account. Perhaps there are additional routes to discover, but I'm not particularly motivated to look for them at this point. If just getting logged in is this painful, I'm not particularly optimistic about the experience of buying or owning the thing.
- swinglock 3mo agoSteam Support can probably get it sorted.
- mikelevins 3mo agoProbably, if I could contact them. But all the links I turned up lead me back to the captcha black hole, and the only email address I've found elicits a reply telling me that nobody is reading it. Perhaps something is reachable through additional effort, but I'm not particularly motivated to keep searching further. Perhaps someone there reads HN and would like to know this happened to someone, in case they want to fix it (for someone else's benefit if not for mine).
- icemelt8 3mo ago[dead]
- seobot_dk1289 3mo ago[flagged]
- DiskoHexyl 3mo agoFor the inevitable minisforum machines comparisons - it's not as bad for Valve as it seems. You can't just add a dedicated GPU to a cheap miniPC with an integrated graphics- power delivery and airflow will have to be different, and you may be surprised to find out that even the cheapest mini PCs with dedicated graphics aren't significantly cheaper than a Steam machine (if at all). And then my personal experience with these cheap no-brand mini-computers is that their Linux compatibility is spotty, BIOS updates are non-existend, quality control is severely lacking, and you have basically no support. They are also often pretty loud, overheat and die within a year or two. If something doesn't work properly, you are on your own- the manufacturer will have forgotten about this model in a couple of months, and user base is so low that it's unlikely someone will find a workaround. So comparatively, a Steam Machine would be much preferable to me, considering that it will likely work out of the box with no compatibility issues, will have a typical valve support (which, judging by Steam Deck, is quite fair), is well-built and near silent. The problem is once the price crosses a thousand, I'd rather add, say, 500 eur, and get a much more powerful machine. I see a point for the cheapest bottom of the barrel gaming pc/handheld (which would be 700-750) with many performance tradeoffs, but this doesn't look like a good enough upgrade from that. A 12+ GB RTX4070-class videocard, 24-32GB of RAM and maybe even an 8-core CPU for $1500+ would likely be more usable in the current market
- Forgeties79 3mo ago>which, judging by Steam Deck, is quite fair I love my Steam Deck but let's not forget that it took a solid 2-3 years for it to really become a somewhat turnkey, stable experience. They shipped it in a near-beta state. Flipping between gaming/desktop mode induced a fail state probably 30% of the time until a year ago, docking to TV's can still be very frustrating (aspect ratio and latency are almost always wonky until you tinker with it a fair bit) and isn't nearly as smooth a transition as with the switch, there used to be a VERY frustrating lockout where if your deck wanted to update and you weren't on your home network it wouldn't log in, just all sorts of really frustrating points of friction. Again I love my deck, it's an incredible and capable device. But it was very clunky those first 2-3 years. It really only matured in the last 12-18mo or so. Hopefully the SM is a stronger experience day/week/month 1.
- dicklip 3mo ago[dead]
- gilbetron 3mo agoVery late to the discussion, but many people see the price of the Steam Machine and balk at the high cost, even if they understand the reasoning. However, this isn't about the Steam Machine. Computing has just gotten more expensive. This is the new reality going forward, Steam Machine is just on the front edge of the wave. (Until, and if, RAM manufacturers catch up).
- draginol 3mo agoWith the scalping issue, the issue isn't whether can we detect scalpers to which anti scalping mechanism has the lowest false positive cost to it? The random reservation order takes the scalping issue out of the fulfillment part and into allocation making it a lot harder on the scalper.
- LarsDu88 3mo agoExpensive, but corrected for inflation, around the price of a ps3 at launch, and the ps3 was sold as a loss leader when it came out
- laurentiu021 3mo ago[flagged]
- Chazprime 3mo ago[dead]
- sedatk 3mo agoGamerNexus found out that an equivalent DIY machine would cost $979 in parts only to give a perspective on the pricing. It would probably be bigger too due to the discrete GPU.
- Forgeties79 3mo agoSo you'd save $150-$200 building it yourself, around 15-20%. Seems reasonable to me.
- neogodless 3mo ago$1049 - $979 = $70 (7% savings)
- Forgeties79 3mo agoDepends on which model the 979 is competing with and if it includes tax. Do you have a link to the article you saw with this build?
- neogodless 3mo agoThe comment I replied to... replied to the comment about GamerNexus. They estimated a comparable build (to the $1049 Steam Machine) based on their benchmarks would be about $979.
- Forgeties79 3mo agoNo need for the tone I was just asking. They didn't include the link so I figured you looked it up yourself. I found the YT video: https://youtu.be/66QzlDewigE?si=q2p-sURxi1vKExZG&t=800 https://youtu.be/66QzlDewigE?si=q2p-sURxi1vKExZG&t=800 It's not a great look. Cheaper and significantly more powerful. Unless that form factor and SteamOS are particularly important, I just don't see it. It can't compete with consoles because traditionally consoles are an easy way to save money on the initial hardware purchase, and it can only lightly compete with comparably priced PC's unless the smaller form factor is considered, which even then is not that impossible to build if you're patient. And every year it'll be cheaper to beat it, and you can upgrade your machine if you need. The steam machine is not really built for hardware upgrades, which is a big con from to the console experience. I think if they could've squeezed this to $900-$950 I'd be less skeptical but crossing $1k without even giving you the controller...that's a big mental barrier for folks, you can see it everywhere. As I've said in other comments, I REALLY want it to succeed and I hope I am wrong. But this one is hard to feel optimistic about. I saw a Costco pre-built today that smoked it at $1399 (32gb DDR5 ram, 2TB nvme, better GPU/processor). It's just a really hard price to get people excited for. Still, I'm rooting for them.
- m3kw9 3mo agolooks like DOA from reviews
- nickv 3mo agoThe thing I'm most excited about here (other than Yay! Valve!) is that this will bleed towards making projects like Bazzite even better.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- leipie 3mo agoNo half-life bundle mentioned (yet) :'(
- jrepinc 3mo agoAn insightful video by Gamers Nexus: Excellent Repairability: Steam Machine Tear-Down and Accessing RAM and SSD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glXA3ObwSwQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glXA3ObwSwQ
- Schlagbohrer 3mo agoMe, praying nightly for the gods to watch over Gabe Newell. We all know that the day after he sells the company or passes away, Valve will be "MBA-ified" into slop by the nameless executives who will take over afterwards and squeeze every penny of profit out of it, screwing over the customers as much as possible.
- surcap526 3mo ago[dead]