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Apple Vision Pro: Apple’s first spatial computer
- curiousgal 3y agoHas anyone pitching these products actually worked with a computer all day? I can't imagine the state my eyes would be in after staring through this thing on a workday.
- wildpeaks 3y agoThey shouldn't have revealed the price today, it would have afforded them more time to build hype around features and in-person demos (and to give themselves a chance to reduce the price before release).
- allenu 3y agoThe high price tag is interesting from a strategy perspective. It feels like they wanted to start super high to really test the market and give themselves an out if it doesn't succeed for a long time. Each year that they keep the price high, it can be used as an excuse for the lack of uptake, should it not succeed. If they ever exit the space, they can always announce that it was too difficult to make it work at lower price points, instead of "people just weren't interested in an AR headset".
- coolandsmartrr 3y ago> It feels like they wanted to start super high to really test the market Reminds me of how Steve Jobs announced a price reduction by $200 in two months after the release of the first iPhone. Apple can likewise reduce the price of Apple Vision, but save face this time by releasing a non-Pro version. > If they ever exit the space I'm not sure if Apple would exit the space that easily. While markets for auxiliary products like homepods were easier to exit, Apple announced Apple Vision announced with too much fanfare to exit quickly. Apple will probably commit to Apple Vision for a while, just like the Apple Watch. While the first Apple Watch did not take off massively, Apple persisted by pivoting it from a luxury item to a more practical device for fitness and Apple Pay.
- cjbreg 3y ago> And with support for Magic Keyboard and Magic Trackpad, I like how they don't even mention the Magic mouse
- 2muchcoffeeman 3y agoSo, sounds like Apple nailed it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OFvXuyITwBI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OFvXuyITwBI
- Borrible 3y agoThey should raise the price, it's a Veblen good.
- kikoreis 3y agoI'm as perplexed as the dog
- tobr 3y agoThey should have called it the Reality Distortion Field.
- debacle 3y ago> Apple Vision Pro starts at $3,499 Insane.
- nrabulinski 3y agoIn classic modern Apple fashion they show no professional use-cases for their "pro" product
- nehal3m 3y agoWere you watching the same keynote as I was? I saw classic office work (Keynote, FaceTime) as well as 3D representations of manufacturing equipment.
- Oddskar 3y agoWriting emails and compiling documents in Word seems like very "professional use-cases" to me.
- codq 3y agoDid you miss the massive Final Cut Pro project window in VR, or does that not count?
- illuminati1911 3y ago3499. Could this finally be the turning point and beginning of collapse of Apple?
- bsaul 3y agofor purely professional usage, it's still fine. But it'll remain quite niche.
- throwaway4good 3y agoWe didn’t get the car but we got the price tag.
- smoldesu 3y agoNo. But it's an outrageous price for a redundant product that most people will not purchase. I don't see any meaningful market leverage for Apple here relative to Meta - if the selling point for this is "experiences, plus iPhone apps" then everyone with an iPhone will get a Quest or similar and save a few thousand bucks.
- just-ok 3y agoI suppose if you think of it as a high-end MacBook Pro + display, it’s an easier pill to swallow.
- ChildOfChaos 3y agoIt might be, but you still need the MacBook Pro if you want to use this as a Mac. So this is just the display, that can access some iPad apps. Although I still think it's pretty awesome, need to give it a few years and see the price come down and a few versions later, this tech will be very interesting in the 5-10 year time space, what a crazy time that is going to be with AI and all this stuff.
- bunga-bunga 3y agoI'll believe it when I see Xcode running on the thing. Plus I would not want to be seen around wearing that thing.
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- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- brucethemoose2 3y ago> Starts at $3499 Thar she bloooows!
- comment_ran 3y agowhat a year to be alive!
- arek_nawo 3y ago$3499 is a high price, but if Apple can deliver, this might just be the next iPhone-like product.
- KMnO4 3y agoIt’s effectively a nonstarter. $3499 USD prices this way beyond the grasp of everyone but a small minority of enthusiasts and professionals. And considering Apple isn’t really known for dropping product prices as the years go by, all this really does is tell us that the tech just isn’t ready for mass production yet. I’m considering this, like Google Glass, to be a neat proof-of-concept.
- petercooper 3y ago$3499 USD prices this way beyond the grasp of everyone but a small minority of enthusiasts and professionals. In a world of $1000 cellphones, $2000 computers and $40k cars, I wouldn't be so sure. I suspect if the prices do stay this high, it'll get priced on a monthly like how many people pay for their phones or cars.
- germinalphrase 3y agoPresumably, they would go the SE route where the Pro model retains highest performance and price while the SE model inherits the tech from past generations.
- bowsamic 3y ago> $3499 USD prices this way beyond the grasp of everyone but a small minority of enthusiasts and professionals. That's a really bizarre thing to say. People will literally spend that on a fancy watch. They will spend 30 times that on a car.
- kweingar 3y agoI think you proved their point. A very small minority of enthusiasts and professionals wear $3500 watches and >$100,000 cars.
- 3y ago
- jw1224 3y agoI will happily go on the record as saying that this will be as revolutionary as the iPhone, perhaps even more so. --- EDIT: To clarify this statement... - For personal/entertainment use it largely replaces the need for a TV, soundbar, or home cinema. - For business use, the days of multiple displays and screen management seem set to be a relic of the past. I look forward to coding in an IDE which isn't constrained to a physical device sat on my desk, or replying to emails "on the beach" versus under fluorescent lighting. My work environment will soon become consistent, without relying on the realities of my real-world physical environment. Think about people working from home with little-to-no desk space: this solves that problem. - In response to the obvious criticisms (high price, battery life, form factor, weird eyeball thing)... this is Gen 1. Look how quickly the iPhone and Apple Watch evolved between generations 1 to 3, and look how the price changed as production capabilities and economies of scale evolved. - Personally, I've been using Apple devices for 20 years. This is the first novel Apple device I've felt genuinely excited about since first joining the ecosystem. Will I use it for everything? No. Will the first version be perfect? No. Does it offer a whole new paradigm to any one of the physical devices I already own...? Yes! If Apple's reputation for growth and improvement in other product categories historically is anything to go by, I look forward to seeing how ubiquitous this becomes in 5 or 10 years from now.
- znagengast 3y agoCompared to how much progress the iPhone made from initial launch to now, the potential for this product line is very exciting.
- newaccount74 3y agoI think more iPad level. A successful product, but not something everyone will have.
- jonwinstanley 3y agoNot for a while, but this is v1. When they’re cheaper, smaller and lighter who knows
- bunga-bunga 3y ago
- 5350-uiop-1130 3y agocontrolling the UI with your eyes and fingers is cool. but the issue I always had with VR is at that point when I realise i can't actually touch or feel any of it.
- jarek83 3y agoName with "Pro" in it already, might suggest lower-tier versions coming in some future? Device looks promising, and I wonder if they plan to allow 2 devices to show the same content simultaneously to say watch 3D movies with someone else in the same room. Some say $3499 is a high price, but being able to carry huge design studio with you is heck of a value to me.
- stephanerangaya 3y agoThere's SharePlay for that
- Delphiki 3y agoSounds like a great use for SharePlay! (:
- justinator 3y ago>might suggest lower-tier versions coming in some future? First it has to not bomb.
- EnragedParrot 3y agoI get the impression this model is intended to introduce the product line to the market and give developers something to build on while Apple fine-tunes the hardware. The thing is way overpriced for the average consumer but the tech inside it is wild. I expect we'll see more consumer-friendly models in 2024-2025.
- lozenge 3y agoIt's shipping in 2024, surely they won't release a new model in the same year.
- dabluecaboose 3y agoIt's supposed to ship Q1 2024 according to the keynote. I wouldn't be surprised if a cheaper model becomes available around Christmas 2024
- golergka 3y agoGetting it as soon as I can. 3500 is steep, but 4k display for my Macbook anywhere I go is invaluable for a remote working nomad.
- nehal3m 3y agoLooks like an awesome device, but with that price I don't think it's aimed at consumers. Also, would the Pro moniker imply a non-Pro version at a lower price in the future?
- dr_ 3y agoExpensive but with such an immersive experience can right off the bat replace a television and surround sound system. But potentially offers a lot more than this. Not bad for a 1st generation product.
- tech_ken 3y agoMy (and I suspect many others') main use case for a TV+surround sound system is social consumption of media. A TV I can't watch with my partner is useless, a speaker I can't use to keep a party going is useless. To me the relevant comparison here is a PC, and by that measure this is a very expensive PC with an improved screen experience. Whether that screen improvement is worth the $1K-1.5K more than a Macbook will depend on how thoroughly they've actually delivered on the AR experience.
- DonHopkins 3y agoApple Vision by Bob Bishop has come a long way since 1979! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiWE-aO-cyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiWE-aO-cyU
- RGBCube 3y agoIt starts at $3499 BEFORE tax, lmfao
- 762236 3y agoI really miss the authenticity of an Elon presentation. Some of the people in the Vision Pro presentation looked 3D rendered with the degree of post processing the video underwent.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y agoWhen is the Cybertruck releasing again?
- rowanG077 3y agoEnd of this year.
- DANmode 3y agoWere they the people toward the end they had said were rendered?
- tkanarsky 3y agoNo kidding. This honestly felt like something out of Hunger Games, with some obviously well-off, out-of-touch, work-from-home dweebs wearing this unit to show off their status to their Apple ecosystem social circle. And then we have Disney! With Marvel and Star Wars! So you can experience Adventure! Without leaving your home! Yeesh, this says a lot about their target market. Cool tech, though. Let's hope I'm not peer pressured into wearing one of these masks for my kid's goddamn birthday party.
- IAmGraydon 3y agoI guess they had to call it a "spatial computer" in an attempt to overcome the shock that they want $3,500 for a VR headset when the competition is selling their newest generation for $500.
- ChildOfChaos 3y agoYes, but what they are doing seems to be nothing like the other VR headsets, did you watch or read?
- philjohn 3y agoHonestly, it really doesn't seem different at all. AR is also where other notable headset makers are betting, Quest has had hand controls for quite a while (which made the "clunky controllers" dig fall flat). It definitely seems more refined, but then again, it's over 2x the cost of the competition, so that would have to be taken as read.
- steveoscaro 3y agoThe Quest is not AR focused in the least, it's pure VR. And the hand tracking is clunky. This looks like a very different experience in general.
- IAmGraydon 3y agoI guess you missed the Quest 3 announcement last week. It's all about AR and it's $500. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAhce2OgZu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAhce2OgZu4
- ChildOfChaos 3y agoThere is really no comparison between the Apple device and what Meta announced, the devices are quite different. Even when Apple showed games, it was less full AR games or like VR experiences in AR, it was about putting a screen up and playing a standard game like this. The Apple experience is full VR and using every space as a screen to access the things you already do. Meta is insisting on building the 'metaverse' it's a completely different concept that people making this argument seem to have completely missed. And I say that as someone that uses a Q1 everyday for Fitness and will be purchasing a Q3, you saw Apple announce nothing like this, also I think the name is a give away 'vision pro' it's about visuals and virtual screens, not about creating another reality, which is likely why they moved away from the reality pro name that was rumoured.
- IceHegel 3y agoDisappointing to see it won’t ship until 2024. I wonder if they are waiting for a 3nm chip.
- NotSuspicious 3y agoIt looks like they aren't since they said it will use an M2 chip
- Dudester230602 3y agoCongrats Microsoft and Meta! Great work on Holo Quest Vision Pro!
- treesciencebot 3y agoUp until to the point they announced the price, apple was doing nice on the street but seems like $3,499 for a brand new platform is a bit too much risk than market was anticipating. Almost 60 billion $s went from the market cap (maybe not much for a giant in Apple's scale but still interesting).
- gmm1990 3y agoCould have been that it'll be out next year too
- ojbyrne 3y agoI think the price was expected, what was disappointing (at least to me) was "available early next year."
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoHonestly I think they’ll sell a ton to businesses and wealthy people looking to get into the new tech. The high price should raise the stock value if anything.
- epolanski 3y agoThat still is not nearly enough to cover all the research, development, legal and manufacturing cost.
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoThat money’s already spent and factored into the stock price.
- giantrobot 3y ago> Almost 60 billion $s went from the market cap (maybe not much for a giant in Apple's scale but still interesting). This is the same exact thing that happens with every Apple event. I can't think of a time their stock went up after an announcement event.
- samwillis 3y agoThe promo site is here: https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/ https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/
- saovq 3y agoApple really just obsoleted Meta's entire product vision, this is scary good.
- LegitShady 3y agonah they're not competing for the same customers. Metas headsets are affordable enough that people buy them for their kids. Apple's headset isn't competing with that. It's like saying "That bugatti obsoleted all the affordable cars" - not really.
- saovq 3y agoI see it more as tackling the core product they're trying to deliver. Meta is trying to deliver "Virtual Reality." Apple is delivering "Augmented Reality." Meta will be able to pivot quite well, but Apple's execution here has disrupted 10 years of vision and development furthered towards creating a virtual reality rather than augmenting it
- LegitShady 3y agometa has consistently been releasing affordable products only. They've been on a mission to drive the price of VR down to widen potential audience, because for them the VR metaworld is the actual platform they want to own and sell. Apple showed a headset that does what most headsets do, but better, with a lot of nonsense features ("it shows your eyes!") and a stable of mobile ios apps for launch, at a price thats unreachable to most buyers. People buy quests for their kids, they aren't going to be doing that with apple vision anytime soon. So its actually not that apple disrupted 10 years of vision at all. Apple's vision is totally different from metas, and meta continues. You have an imaginary view of what meta is trying to accomplish because meta isn't interested in $3500 unicorn headsets. If meta could figure out $100 headsets that gave a decent experience theyd be doing that. This apple vision isn't related to meta's vision at all, and hasn't disrupted it. Meta wants to run the metaworld to control what you see. If they could get there without VR headsets they'd do that first.
- fomine3 3y ago
- seydor 3y agoWell it s good, this is how you make something that turns us to cyborgs. A bit pricey to become a household items (because a family needs 4 of them) but this is probably where things are heading to There is so much engineering going on here that maybe ... it's simpler to start considering retina implants or just brain implants. This was more like a work of art than a consumer device. I wonder if Oculus can steal some ideas ... Like, these device are not for gaming but general productivity. Ditch the 2 oculus controllers, put the battery in the 1 controller and wire it to the head. I m not convinced if eye tracking is worth it. oculus' controls are precise enough and in any case it's better to hold something instead of pointing and pinching the air, it makes the device more physical. dont know what is needed for the ability to render a full field of view but would be interesting to know what is the level of nausea this causes when movement is involved. I guess Apple purposely chose to eliminate all optic flow movement - all the apps appear to be stationary.
- summarity 3y agoWith profiles and OpticID you probably wouldn’t need one for everyone in the household. Or even more than one. Just the lenses.
- seydor 3y agohow do u watch a movie together?
- RandallBrown 3y agoOn your TV? Group movie watching on this would be cool with people in different places, but if you're already in the same house that feels too dystopian for me.
- seydor 3y agosmartphones can switch profiles too, but it s not like people are sharing them We used to think it is dystopian that people were looking at their phones , now it s the most common image everywhere
- mikece 3y agoApple: We're concerned about myopia from holding screens too close to your face. Also Apple: Strap a pair of 4K displays an inch from your eyeballs!!!
- gbear605 3y agoTheoretically the lenses could make this not a problem. We’ll have to see how it works in practice though.
- nomel 3y agoIt’s not theory. Every VR headset produced, since the 90’s, and every microscope, shortly after their invention, has had optics that make viewing comfortable, by having a distant focal distance, for the eyes to settle on. This is, quite literally, Physics 101 material!
- doctoboggan 3y agoIt's the focusing close that is bad, and with the lenses you are focusing further in the distance
- fauigerzigerk 3y agoAs a glasses wearer I was wondering how this works. They mentioned extra lenses that I would have to install into the device. But why isn't it possible to do this all in software?
- seba_dos1 3y agoBecause making the lenses movable and adjustable by software is significantly more complex than making them replaceable?
- numpad0 3y agoIt takes optical phased array(we’re not there yet at all)) or light-field display(not there in computational power yet) to do this in software. Some googles has diopter correction/focus adjustment dials, but it’s not common for some reason, which I can only make assumptions, perhaps to do with motion sickness.
- doctoboggan 3y agoThe price is even higher than people expected at $3.5k! The passthrough of the wearers eyes with a front facing display is pretty interesting, especially with the 3D lenticular display giving every viewer the correct perspective. I hadn't seen that in the rumors leading up to the launch, its good to see apple still can keep some secrets.
- hmate9 3y agoExternal battery with a cord, and even with that only 2 hours performance. This has to be improved before mainstream appeal. (and the price of course)
- comment_ran 3y agoremember he said all day use. not sure what it mean.
- teacpde 3y agoI guess you could just swap batteries ...
- jaywalk 3y agoAll day use if it's plugged in, as in using an AC adapter.
- throwaway202351 3y agoiirc, he said something like "when plugged in you can use it all day, and on battery you get two hours"
- ASinclair 3y agoAll day use if you plug it into wall power.
- lijok 3y agoAll day use when plugged in
- moron4hire 3y agoYeah, with them touting watching movies and only having "up to 2 hours" of battery, that's going to severely limit the movies you can watch. "Everything, Everywhere, All At Once", which they showed someone watching, is 2.2hrs.
- chad1n 3y agoThis will only be targeted in US, no? I doubt it's GDPR compliant and won't probably buyers outside of US. If it's $3500, then in Europe, it will be around $5000.
- jw1224 3y agoWhat’s not GDPR compliant about it?
- idoh 3y agoWhat’s the issue with GDPR? If it is similar to other Apple products where data is collected / processed at the edge, then no more issues than anything else they do.
- pelorat 3y agoI don't think GDPR is a problem, but they might have to cut some features in some EU countries where facial recognition is illegal (if they use that, but they probably do). Kind of like Google Photos which has facial recognition and tagging, except in the EU.
- zyang 3y agoThe amount of innovation packed into one release blew my mind. Apple has done it again.
- turbobooster 3y ago[dead]
- paul7986 3y agoAR sized sunglasses is the next iPhone so much innovation to happen here. Though as of now and until they shrink all the tech into regular sized glasses the majority will reject while the innovators will jump on this headset and start creating amazing things.
- escapecharacter 3y agoWhat an early announcement before actual availability
- givemeethekeys 3y agoI think it was Bill Gates who once said that you're not a platform until the things built using your service are worth more than the service. This feels like it is going to be a platform. Before the Vision Pro part of the presentation, it already felt like the best WWDC presentation in years! For those experiencing sticker shock - think of the real estate you can free up in your bedroom-office.
- patothon 3y agoYou’ll still have all the stuff in your bedroom-office
- givemeethekeys 3y agoI'll be selling the monitor, desk and office chair and replacing them with a nice chair with a footrest, and a keyboard attachment.
- ttul 3y agoIt looks as though it can replace a laptop. Unlike the iPad, assuming the display really delivers on text fidelity, it may be a more comfortable working environment than the old paradigm. If that’s the case, the effective cost falls considerably because you don’t need the laptop anymore. And get rid of the iPad too.
- nehal3m 3y agoExcept battery life is 2 hours.
- jasonjamerson 3y agoSwap batteries with a click. Granted, I'm sure they'll cost $1,000.
- nehal3m 3y agoYeah, they probably won't be cheap. I wonder if swapping the battery would require turning the device off. Maybe they've put in a small internal battery to facilitate a swap.
- tornato7 3y agoHowever, unlike a Macbook, you could own a few external batteries and swap between them. You'll probably also see aftermarket batteries for this pretty quickly with even more power. I'm wondering if they're including a small battery on the headset for ~5mins of juice, just enough to swap batteries or from external power to AC power. It would be frustrating to have to shut down completely every 1.5 hours to recharge or swap packs.
- ttul 3y agoThis is version 1.0. I imagine down the road there will be larger batteries and greater power efficiency. But for desk workers using AR goggles for “laptop work,” you’re usually near a power outlet anyway.
- bobivl 3y ago
- jarym 3y agoSo where does this leave Meta with the billions poured into the metaverse?
- msie 3y agoMeta can still create the Metaverse for the device.
- LegitShady 3y agometa is fine, for now. Apple's $3500 headset isn't something most parents are going to buy their kids, while I know a bunch of people who have bought quest 2s for their kids because they're cheap af. If apple can lower the price to something reasonable or even twice the quest's price, maybe they can threaten them. They're not looking at the same customers.
- EatingWithForks 3y ago3.5k? Who would reasonably go outside with that thing-- its asking to be robbed off your body.
- gbear605 3y agoPeople go work at Starbucks with more expensive laptops.
- rcarr 3y agoIt's locked to your irises. Unless they're going to gouge out your eyeballs Minority Report style then it's not of much use.
- coolandsmartrr 3y agoI noticed that Apple's demo footage all took place in the living room. Apple probably doesn't expect people to take the Apple Vision outside.
- roughly 3y agoThe optics will make or break this, but I came in extremely skeptical, but it's clear they've put a lot of thought into the possibilities landscape, the interaction modes, and the human aspects of it. It looks a whole lot more interesting than I was expecting - it's the best shot I've seen at AR so far. It's also clearly the "First" in the line - similar to the first iPhone and iPad, it's expensive and a bit unwieldy, but you can start to see the potential.
- rektide 3y agoNot an iPhone user but I have yet to see a panoramic camera app that gets anything remotely high red for output. The panoramic mode felt cool, but I can't imagine they actually have the data there to make it look good. (Short of copious AI up scaling, which is a pretty new capability.)
- lowbloodsugar 3y agoIf this can replace the four screens attached to my corporate M2 Max by acting as virtual displays for it, then I'm buying one.
- zamadatix 3y agoWith the per eye resolution for your entire field of view being only slightly more than the resolution of the MacBook's main screen, replacing 4 additional screens seems lofty. I mean yeah, there is plenty of visual space to place all of the screens... but that's a heck of a DPI downgrade before we even get to unused visual space, stretching/warp of placing flat-rendered screens in positions across a perspective render, and the optics. There is also the whole matter of streaming that much low-latency screen over Wi-Fi from the MacBook, which is why I think it's limited to 1x 4k screen right now (per the video). Virtual screens is probably #1 on my VR/AR productivity list but, having tried so many prior solutions, I just couldn't believe them no matter how many times they repeated "crisp text" when talking about it. I'd love to see it and be so wrong... but the specs don't have me holding my breath. Maybe if it had double the resolution per eye it'd start to be something worth considering.
- justinator 3y agoI'd rather take a vacation for $3500 than buy this.
- enos_feedler 3y agoFunny I had the same comparison for $3500. We are 10+ years from a virtual vacation or augmented staycation could deliver similar benefits.
- justinator 3y agoWe're not 10+ years from traveling a foreign country, meeting people completely different from yourself, becoming enmeshed socialy in their lives, developing relationships with them (if only for a brief time), etc. Give me a break. What these will do is safe us from the dystopia we're creating outside our own doors, which isn't solving the problem, just ignoring it.
- Dudester230602 3y agoVacations in 10+ years... It will be hard for AR to beat an actual beach holiday in Finland to be honest.
- heynk 3y agoIncredible. The biggest downside is that it looks like you can only use a single display from your Mac. If I could run 3+ screens from my mac, this would become a no-brainer.
- rl1987 3y agoBut you will be able to to have 3+ screens in your field of vision without needing a Mac...
- oatmeal1 3y agoThe apps you can run on the 3+ visionOS "screens" will be limited compared to what you can run on a Mac
- evgen 3y agoI am expecting a lot of apps to be able to cast a window directly to visionOS devices by the time this thing actually launches or possibly a way to split out spaces into their own screens by the time this launches.
- kumarvvr 3y agoLooks incredible. The cinema experience itself feels amazing. Wonder what the long term effects of using this will be? Apple does not mention how usage metrics, or testing for harmful effects on vision, etc.
- throwaway4good 3y agoLooks amazing and wild full of possibilities but the price tag and perhaps the clunkiness of the device (size and external battery) indicates that the technology is not quite there for mass adoption.
- mmastrac 3y agoSki goggles, mixed reality, less storage than a Nomad. I don't see what this brings to the table over other VR systems.
- moultano 3y agoNo tether. Worse tracking than an index. Lame.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jansan 3y agoI already hate those people who think they must walk around in the streets wearing these AR masks.
- zwieback 3y agoI still wonder what the TAM for these kinds of headsets is, even if they are Apple quality. Nausea and dork factor might limit to a fairly small clientele.
- emoII 3y ago"The kids are playing, better record a spacial moment" was one of the most dystopic things I've seen in a long time. Same with the ad at the end, with the father wearing it around his kids. I feel like the interface demands strapping something this futuristic over your head is just... wrong. Perhaps a few years of refining the tech can lead to something that feels more natural
- shippintoboston 3y agoAgreed for some reason I had a really repulsive reaction to seeing that as well. Feels like this is the next step in people turning more inward. A screen strapped to our face at all times.
- wtetzner 3y agoIf they can get it into a pair of glasses, it might help a lot. Yes, the screen will be there all the time, but people won't be staring down at their phones all the time either.
- ElongatedMusket 3y agoOh good, they'll be staring directly at/through me from across the room instead. Can't wait!
- crack__fox 3y agoImagine you realise that you haven't taken off your vision for a few months. You lift them up and you're just all alone with sores on your face, in your piss-soaked chair in your isolated flat in your decaying suburb of your polluted city. think I'll just put them back on...
- lyu07282 3y agoYou probably also don't want to take them off if everyone around you is going to wear one, not sure if AR is the right bet though for our dystopia. We don't want to augment the tent we live in the billionaire city, we want to replace the cardboard box we live in with a mansion to ease our embarrassment at not yet being a billionaire. Future consumer electronics needs to focus on easing the transition of hundreds of millions of people in the western world into poverty.
- MrJagil 3y agojust a point on my comment yesterday on Metas trailer[0]. I wrote: > I think [Meta] missed the mark with that trailer. They promote it like it’s a skateboard: cool tricks, fast paced, hip and happy. I don’t think that’s why you want a VR headset at all, it’s actually the opposite: immersion, sinking into a another world, it’s concious dreaming. The D&D pitch could be perfect. I’d love to play a VR/AR d&d game. But in the video, the first thing he does is take off the headset and smile? It makes no sense. He should be totally enraptured, not happy to take it off. Compare this to Apples trailer. The guy sits down, with the headset on and a bowl of popcorn, enlarges the screen, ready to delve in. Sitting in an airplane, but just have it all meld away. A guy playing ball with his kid, while wearing the headset. I can't afford it at all but Apple made me want the product just for a bit. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36152725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36152725
- mk_stjames 3y agoYour comment about the Meta commercial is exactly what I was thinking after watching it yesterday. The last shot is the guy taking the headset off and smiling. And the first thing I thought was: "Is he happy to be getting it off his head? Because it looks like he's fucking relieved it's over." I love the idea of VR but the fast paced, cool games world is NOT for me. I dislike most modern 3d gaming in general. I'm much more interested in either passive viewing experiences, desktop computing augmentation, and creative applications. TiltBrush is still the most amazing thing I think I've come across in VR. TiltBrush in an AR envrionment, surrounded by multiple displays of other conent, work apps, dragging and dropping my 3D work into 2D powerpoint, etc... There is so much more potential than the hyperactive-chic-gaming metaverse world that the Quest and Meta is pushing.
- d3nj4l 3y agoThe weird price fixation and doomerism here is weird. People said the AirPods were overpriced; half my uni has one. People said the AirPods Max were overpriced, and I see it all the time in co-work spaces and libraries. People said the M1 Pros were overpriced; they're literally everywhere, used by almost all of the professionals I know. People said the Pro Display XDR is excessively overpriced; more than a few consumers I know bought it. $3500 is high but considering it is a phone, laptop and massive display bundled into I'm pretty sure there's a more than sustainable market for it. That aside, I'm curious whether it will be more like the mac or more like the iPhone. Will we be able to "sideload", i.e. install things without papa apple's approval? Can we use a web engine that's not WebKit? Things like that will make the difference for me, not the price.
- matsemann 3y agoThe AirPods you see all the time is because wearing them is a fashion statement. You're "hip" or "rich" or whatever you want it to signal. Airpods are advertising themselves by people wearing them and influencing others to buy them. That's what driving the sales. No one will be wearing this in public. And if anything, the person in the office using this first will look dorky. So I can't see it having the same appeal/free advertising.
- uw_rob 3y agoDo you own a pair of AirPods? My Gen2 AirPod Pros are what I consider to be the best purchase I have made in the last 10 years. The small package and ANC is fantastic. Before purchasing AirPods I would walk around with ATH M50X (Great headphones; not fashionable) and these have replaced that.
- elijaht 3y agoI don't know about that. My AirPods just work in a way that no other wireless headphones do with my iPhone. Using them is delightful. I still rock a Gen 1 pair which would no longer be "cool"
- pdabbadabba 3y ago> The AirPods you see all the time is because wearing them is a fashion statement. You're "hip" or "rich" or whatever you want it to signal. That's what driving the sales. Exactly the opposite is true among the people I know. People feel like dorks wearing AirPods in public, but often find themselves doing it anyway because they're convenient. (I know this, because it still comes up in conversation all the time.) Not sure this tells us anything much about the Vision Pro, though--except, perhaps, that some people will happily use the product even if it looks dorky, if the user experience is on point.
- marricks 3y agoMeta has a social network, but they don't really have an electronic ecosystem connecting them. Mac has a social network (anyone with an iPhone arguable) and an operating system. This might give them the edge needed in integration to do well. Additionally, apple fan boys will pay a few grand for a high end device. So the whole "glasshole" issue from Google will be less of a thing. It's easier to see where they are coming from here is what I'm saying. I think the nay sayers sure have reasonable nays to say, but I can see how it'll be popular to Apple's core "creative pro with pro level pocket change." Growing beyond that is definitely anyones guess and needs a "VisionLite"
- rektide 3y agoThe Mac private social networking was on mad display this WWDC. IMessaging has really upped the game on what a group chat is, mainly via emoji creation tools that will really add personality & flavor & build repetoir over time; touching stuff to me. Other nice to haves like builtin location reporting in the chat & ability to drop emojis positionally on posted graphics are also very good social capabilities. The communication technologies on display at WWDC impressed me a lot a lot a lot. There's a huge list of ways people will have markedly better everyday experiences, with each other & solo.
- fomine3 3y agoEven though it's made well, it's annoying that Apple is investing for their own communication platform. It's completely useless for communicating non-Apple device user. Platform closed communication tool is nonsense IMO.
- mikece 3y ago"Reliving the memories closest to your heart -- that you apparently recorded with this thing over your face." Seriously though: if this takes off I can see specially designed video capture devices/cameras for recording events like weddings (and other significant life events) meant for consumption on an Apple Vision Pro (and captured in higher quality than the cameras and lenses in the Apple Vision Pro).
- abracadaniel 3y agoI fully expect iPhone pros to start having the 3d camera in the next gen or 2
- stuff4ben 3y agoThis really blows whatever it was that Zuck and Meta were doing out of the water and into outer space! This is light-years more game-changing than the metaverse and old VR. Only drawback is the price, but I'm sure a non-pro will be released at a cheaper price point.
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- chrbr 3y agoI was thinking the same thing. I know the price points are way different between what Apple's putting forward and what Meta was shipping, but Apple's vision and tech here blows Meta's out of the water. Meta seemed to be approaching the problem with an iterative approach, where the payoff in vision was down the road, and wanted consumers to share the journey to get there - whereas Apple jumped all the way to the end.
- blitztime 3y agoIncredible the amount of new tech that goes into this device. Still seems pretty niche and I’m skeptical about how good the controls will be.
- matsemann 3y agoFor the FaceTime calling to make sense, you have to be the only one actually using this product. If everyone in the call is wearing this, you're basically talking with avatars..
- gomjabbar 3y agoThe avatar is supposed to be lifelike, captured from the lidar camera...we'll see though
- turingfeel 3y agoI think the avatar they demoed was somewhat lifelike to put it very generously.
- nickpinkston 3y agoI'm betting that even Apple can't get this form factor to take off in mainstream use cases. Maybe in very niche cases, but there's a lot of dead bodies on the VR/AR hardware hill even there with Hololens, MagicLeap, etc. Then again Oculus sold like 20M units, so who knows...
- sebzim4500 3y agoOculus sold a lot of users but most of them were used 0 or 1 times. This product will need to be actually useful to take off, the early adopters need to rave about it to their friends. Presumably that's why Apple is targeting such a high price point at first, I'm sure they could remove half the cameras and use a worse CPU and end up with a device that sort of works, but first impressions matter.
- l33t233372 3y agoI highly doubt many Oculus devices were sold that were used 0 times.
- nickpinkston 3y agoI used my Quest 3 like twice and forgot to sell / gift it. It's a pretty big problem, but I'm unsure the distribution.
- anonomousename 3y agoThat’s very surprising to me. The Quest 3 hasn’t even come out yet. Did you mean Quest 2?
- anonomousename 3y agoI can no longer edit my comment, but this was unnecessarily sarcastic.
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- satysin 3y agoFor all the tech inside a device you can wear on your head it is quite impressive even for the $3499 price tag. I will hold off judgement until I can actually use one. While it certainly has some goofiness and kinda dystopian vibes in some of the demos shown it also has some very interesting use cases that could be something almost everyone uses day to day like the TV or computer. But who knows, predicting the future is hard :)
- IceWreck 3y agoAwesome trailer, but the Meta Quest 3 can do the same things, with somewhat worse hardware but that's acceptable considering its 7x cheaper. The biggest improvements over it are the higher resolution, the spatial audio and using a PS5/xbox controller to play regular apple arcade games. They are heavily leaning into the "use it as a large monitor aspect" which is something Meta Quest sucks at because of poor resolution.
- dmitrygr 3y ago> Awesome trailer, but the Meta Quest 3 can do the same things, with somewhat worse hardware but that's acceptable considering its 7x cheaper. "My pinto can do the same thing as your Private jet, just with somewhat worse hardware but that's acceptable considering it cheaper."
- rngname22 3y agoBiggest notes: - 3d camera built-in to the device is huge, photo and video got so big online because smartphones meant we all had cameras on us and they made sharing those media easier, we may finally see stereo photo and video content go beyond adult content if consumers can record stereo video with this device they already have and upload to YouTube, Tiktok, etc - Microgestures as input like two finger pinch and flicking up the hand are really wise. Gorilla arms syndrome sucks and means most people prefer to sit there and play Call of Duty rather than jump around and play Beat Saber or Wii Bowling. - FOV seems to be full field of view, unlike Hololens and Magic Leap
- oezi 3y agoDid they say anything about Lidar and room mapping accuracy? The gestures seems very minute. I am astounded they can pick those up well.
- joking 3y agoanother product to add to the apple walled garden, you will have to go through the vision store for everything, and they will capture their share from all the transactions happening inside it. It's incredible how apple can be so innovative and nobody can fight such prevalence. Will be a handset with the same features, but that you can connect to an open operating system someday? i would like to think that it will happen someday.
- numpad0 3y agoInteresting that they didn't mention a pancake lens. It isn't one? edit: the other thread is growing faster: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36200708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36200708
- Rhedox 3y ago$3500 to watch movies or use it as a virtual monitor. With 2 hours of battery life. Tough sell...
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- polycaster 3y agoWell, looks like we'll have to do without the extended LOTR edition...
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- minimaxir 3y agoNo tech spec sheet other than the battery life: "The external battery supports up to 2 hours of use, and all‑day use when plugged in."
- DANmode 3y agoM2 chip + R1 chip
- dragonwriter 3y agoTo be fair, it also gives vague hints on resolution with “more pixels than a 4K TV for each eye”, which is simultaneously more verbose and less informative than giving the actual resolution.
- SirMaster 3y agoI mean, they said it's got 23 million pixel microOLED. Dual 4K would be 16.5M pixels. So it's comfortably 40% more than 4K per eye, so as long as say a virtual TV screen filled up most of your vision it should be at least close to 4K quality. Maybe a bit less in the end, but even somewhere between 1080p and 4K should look great. Ever been to a movie theater using digital 2K projectors? Looks pretty good to me still.
- fassssst 3y agoIt should look fine for video, text is another story.
- mojomark 3y agoYeah, "4K TV resolution" doesn't mean anything as that completely ignores viewing distance. Pixels Per Degree (PPD) is the core metric and it drives me bananas that marketing professionals continue to intentionally obfuscate basic facts about products for sale. I assume they're just ashamed that after billions of dollars in product development, they were unable to obtain the requisite 35PPD necessary to emulate a very basic "virtual computer monitor" and display readible text - or get close to the 62PPD that actually represents the limits of human resolution and is the golden benchmark to shoot for. Maybe they did achieve these goals, which would be impressive, but without using standardised meaningful metrics for HMD resolution you just can't tell.
- llm_nerd 3y agoIt's interesting that HN is completely overloaded right now...with people coming to announce how unimpressed they are and how it isn't for them. The displays in this device are crazy. I honestly didn't think they'd be able to put together a value proposition, but I think they legitimately did. It's super expensive, and some of the cost of the device seems kind of silly (if I heard correctly, the display on the front is 3d and gives different perspectives based upon the viewers), so obviously they're going to have a lot of room to improve value in subsequent generations. But it's going to be a hit. HN is going to be swamped with "How I used Vision Pro to..." posts when it comes out. One element that didn't get a lot of play (if any...though I was distracted with work) -- did they talk about using it as a display for a Mac? I'd love to use a real keyboard mouse interacting with flexible Mac displays.
- selectodude 3y agoThe guy on the commercial was using a real keyboard so I imagine this can be used relatively standalone, with the caveat that it uses iPad apps.
- junofan 3y ago> did they talk about using it as a display for a Mac Yeah, you look at the screen through the headset and then pinch to move it around and grow/shrink it.
- j2bax 3y agoThere was one moment in the presentation when a guy at the office opened his Macbook Pro and the screen popped up above it much larger.
- solarmist 3y agoHe also used a keyboard and trackpad.
- soneca 3y agoYes, they showcased that you just have to take a look at a Mac screen and the glasses become the display.
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- faefox 3y agoDOA at the announced price of $3499. I don't think even the Reality Distortion Field can overcome the intrinsic problems with VR/AR, namely that most people simply do not want to deal with the hassle of strapping something to their face or clearing a sufficiently large area for room-scale experiences.
- pcurve 3y agoYep. Most people don't even like wearing eyeglass. I feel like we're going backwards from Google Glasses.
- ladberg 3y agoYou don't really need to clear an area for this because you'll be using passthrough 99% of the time and won't hit stuff. You'll be able to run around a cluttered room, pick up things, interact with people, type on keyboards, etc. without taking the headset off!
- BudaDude 3y agoI can't wait to come back to this comment in 5 years. Hacker News is always so critical of Apple's new products that turn out to be massive successes.
- sanitycheck 3y agoNever bet against the RDF, it's slightly diminished post-Jobs but still very much active and unbelievably (sometimes literally, to me) powerful.
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- namuol 3y agoIt seems like Apple knows this first generation hardware isn’t going to sell much but they’re going forward anyway. Should be interesting to see what the next couple generations looks like.
- jsisto 3y agoI don't see this taking off until there is a killer app that sells these things
- seatac76 3y agoLot of potential.Beautifully designed. I can see it selling a million a year. Questioned that before but I can see enough demand for 1M units a year. Could be an iPad level business if they keep miniaturizing it.
- GNOMES 3y agoWith the M2 chip they should have called it the "eye mac"
- nabla9 3y agohow many degrees field of vision?
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- amoss 3y agoTwo hours of battery life is a joke. They did not mention FoV, which seems to be the biggest limitation on other headsets. The technology looks nice: foveated rendering, eye tracking controls and geature recognition. The image quality could be amazing and the battery life is still bad enough that it will be v2 or v3 before it is worth looking at.
- rektide 3y agoThe battery has to be comfortable wear, so I'm hoping it's closer to 40Wh/10Ah than the airline maximum 100Wh/27Ah bricks the laptop class is used to. Two hours seems fine to me, if the battery is indeed reasonable size. Knowing Apple though they're going to spit in the EU face & require Apple MFi Usb-c certified batteries or some shit, cause that's the shitty shit Apple does.
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- fullshark 3y agoI am skeptical but applaud anyone trying to introduce a new computing form factor. All the use cases in the presentation seemed like they could be done already with a computer, and much better.
- tkanarsky 3y agoThis really is technology wrapped up in an experience that feels magical. I'm decently familiar with the state of the HMD industry and I reckon they're a solid 5 to 7 years ahead of Meta in terms of processing power and display tech, not to mention all the ancillary details you have to get right to deliver a convincing AR experience like lens adjustment (they demonstrated a crazy 2D motor controlled carriage for centering the screens, no doubt automatically driven by the eye tracker without user intervention) I guess the only real bummer is the high price -- all those optical components can't be cheap at this scale -- and the short battery life which really can't be solved without either a serious breakthrough in power efficiency (which apple is on the frontier of), battery density (likely same) or sacrificing visual fidelity (not in Apple's ethos). I don't mind the external battery pack, actually; hopefully it results in a well balanced headset. I wonder if they're going to do in-person demos at the Apple store. I might have to go check it out.
- gtirloni 3y agoDid he really say this? """“Just as the Mac introduced us to personal computing, and iPhone introduced us to mobile computing, Apple Vision Pro introduces us to spatial computing. Built upon decades of Apple innovation, Vision Pro is years ahead and unlike anything created before"
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- jedberg 3y agoThis device will revolutionize movie making. Given that this is cheaper than most 3D rigs used today, 3D movies just became way easier to make. With the ability to record 3D videos and then play them back, you can expect a whole new breed of consumer made 3D videos to hit the market. Also, no one else is saying it, but this will revolutionize the pornography industry, for all the reasons above. It'll be super easy for OF creators to make custom 3D videos for big bucks for example.
- awesomelvin 3y ago[dead]
- contemporary343 3y agoThe micro-OLED displays alone explain a lot of the price point.. along with apple silicon, really hard to see how Meta can compete at the high end.
- anonymouse008 3y agoThis is the first inverse of Apple. It's the first device that doesn't live with you on the journey... everything from "the throw it out the window macintosh," iPod, iPhone, Air, iPad... you name it, was about going with you where you went. It's striking... This is a shift of epic proportions.
- peddling-brink 3y agoWhat are you talking about you strap it to your face.
- denimnerd42 3y agoRSI inducing machine. No way I could wear that more than 20m.
- fnordsensei 3y agoIt’s highly custom, and clearly engineered not to compromise on the vision they have for it. Early adopters will foot the bill for the R&D required to create the non-“Pro” version of this, hence the price. But there’s always going to be a Pro version of this, that pushes what “no compromise” looks like, as there is for the rest of their products.
- MatekCopatek 3y agoInteresting, I thought they would come out with some kind of radical new use case that would change how VR is percieved. But it seems like they decided the main barrier to wider adoption is hardware quality.
- lopkeny12ko 3y ago$3500??? What a complete joke
- shp0ngle 3y agoI will say this is not for me, but the presentation makes it look like it makes more sense than anything Meta has produced so far. I don’t want it, but I understand why someone might. I don’t care about metaverse or gaming, but they made it look actually useful.
- graypegg 3y agoWell said, I’m not convinced I’m going to get value out of it, but I can totally see real use cases here. Better than “you’re going to socialize” from meta.
- rtsao 3y agoThe demonstrated software doesn't look too compelling (mostly floating 2D app windows), but I could see this becoming the ultimate learning/training tool. Interactive, step-by-step guides/instruction on how to do literally anything would be incredibly useful (play an instrument, vehicle maintenance, cooking, etc.) If the hardware is sufficiently good, eventually the software will come, which is probably why this initially targeting the pro market. I'm skeptical the current frameworks make it easy enough to build quality AR apps, but hopefully the difficulty will go down eventually (maybe with the help of AI).
- pipeline_peak 3y agoThis won’ be successful No one wants a serious product strapped to their face hours on ends, idc if it’s $1200. VR is a 1980s pipe dream that will be as “revolutionary” as the wiimote was (which we all thought would be) Steve Jobs would think this is stupid and you all know it. Sorry to come off as pessimistic, would rather tell it like it is than pretend this thing taking off.
- vvilliamperez 3y agoApple is taking small but important steps here. Notice how most of the content is 2d rendered onto a plane in 3d space. Meta and previously Magicleap perhaps bit off more processing than they could chew with 3d models in a 3d world mesh.
- qbasic_forever 3y agoIf apple really believed this were a revolutionary product they would have done the entire keynote with every presenter wearing and using the device. The fact they didn't is a major tell... This thing has sunk cost fallacy written all over it and I'll be shocked if it even makes it to a version 2 of the device. They likely had so much time and talent engaged in the creation of it over the last few years that they feared it would be more of a demoralizing and attrition inducing event to kill it before launch vs. quietly abandon it afterwards. I'm just starring slackjawed at their press photos of people using it and thinking if that's the absolute best they can make this thing look it is completely DOA with normal people. Nevermind all the usability issues that are sure to exist with strapping goggles to your face and head for hours at a time.
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- homarp 3y agohttps://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ipod https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-i...
- qbasic_forever 3y agoIf you recall Steve Jobs was actually wearing and using the iPod when he announced it. This AR device is so shoddy and weird looking I'm certain Jobs would have binned the whole project the first time he saw it in prototype.
- homarp 3y agokind of... he had it in his pocket: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN0SVBCJqLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN0SVBCJqLs but Steve is a showman and Tim is coordinator.
- qbasic_forever 3y agoYes, he was showing people the iPod was a normal thing a normal person would wear and use and still seem... normal.
- mciancia 3y agoInteresting, in terms of resolution: PS VR2: 2000 × 2040, so ~4Mpix per eye Quest pro: 1800 x 1920 pixels per eye, so ~3.5Mpx per eye Vision pro: "The custom micro‑OLED display system features 23 million pixels" So 11.5Mpix per eye, assuming similar aspect ratio (1:1) resolution ~3400x3400 Probably there is more then resolution to this, but still, seems impressive
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- illuminati1911 3y agoThe price is so insane and outrageous that this will be pretty much 101% failure. It's essentially iOS app browser inside Oculus Quest like glasses + Disney garbage content. Hard to see even value for 1000 USD price tag.
- adamwk 3y agoI always consider V1 Apple products like kickstarters funded by Apple whales
- travisgriggs 3y agoI think this is very point on. This is not the sweet spot on the supply demand curve that maximizes the units sold * price per unit. But at this point in time, that's not actually what Apple would want/need with this new "innovation". They need a limited set of people who are zealous enough to jump in at that price, and help refine the product. Apple gets feedback and a publicity that will be biased positively. "Let's drop 3500+ and then pan this thing" will not fit the majority of reviewers. But "I spent discretionary money that you didn't/don't have and I want you to know it, and I'm certainly going to paint it as a wise first mover type experience" is more likely. People who pay more for seats at a game, always make a bigger deal about how awesome the game was.
- wongarsu 3y agoA Valve Index will run you $1000, for less resolution and no onboard computing. Lenovo has $1700 AR glasses. Both of these seem like much better comparison points than a budget product like the Oculus Quest.
- moron4hire 3y agoDisappointed there was no mention of WebXR support in Safari.
- s-xyz 3y agoI am sure that I bought a TV for the very last time. This is mind blowing, the future is here!
- NickC25 3y agoNeat. I won't buy one any time soon, but it looks cool and knowing Apple, they will iterate like hell on this platform over the years and hopefully the price will eventually come down to a more reasonable point like $2k-2.5k. In 3-5 years down the line, though, this will really start to take off. The Vision Pro 2 or Vision Pro 3 will be a game changer. Some of the features are quite useful, though.
- yvsong 3y agoAirPods Max synthetic fabric is not comfortable to touch face. Hope Vision Pro has more comfortable materials. Many big headphones have comfortable velour or leather ear pads. It's also better for the pads to be replaceable.
- stellalo 3y agoIf there’s a company that can make the VR/AR headset thingy fly, that is Apple. I’m not sure it will fly (I’m skeptical) but I’m happy that we will finally find out.
- w10-1 3y agoThe underlying tech is amazing, as is the design. Augmented reality is a much harder problem than virtual reality. Have they defeated cybersickness? Possibly, in part due to only 12ms latency from outside camera to display. The neurological visual latency is about 100ms, but there are many drivers to cybersickness[1]. fovea-centric resolution: improve not the whole screen, but the area seen by the retina's fovea, which has much higher resolution (and attention). I can see how the R2 processor schedule could prioritize what you're actually looking at relative to the rest of the UI. Is it weird? The device projects the eyes and face out to others, so they can "interact" with you. It's telling that the ad places the user not in a business context, but making toast for kids, and interacting with a surprise soccer ball. Notwithstanding the "everyday" appeal of 3D games for play and minority-report displays for work, there are many, many specialty applications where this could be huge and $3,500 would be nothing. I wonder what their manufacturing runway is. It could take time to start selling millions of these units, but small lots can be really, really hard to justify. [1] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/frvir.2020.582204/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/frvir.2020.5822...
- activitypea 3y ago12ms puts it at about 90hz latency. I play games on a 144hz screen, and I can tell the difference between 90 and 144 hz, and that's on a bad screen at an arms length from my face that's definitely not trying to convince me I'm looking at reality. It'll probably be in the same ballpark as a good transparency mode on headphones -- close to indistinguishable in small bursts, but long term causes alienation/lack of presence.
- ncr100 3y agoA Wall Street Journal reporter tried a preproduction unit, she felt nausea after 30 minutes, Apple said they'd "fix that by release time". :/
- samsolomon 3y agoI've always thought the killer feature to get people to start using AR/VR wasn't games or social experiences, but just a bigger screen for web browsing, Excel, dashboards and a bunch of other boring software. Honestly, I'm not sure how Vision Pro product stacks up to what Apple says, but the marketing shows that Apple has clearly figured it out. > I was initially a skeptic of widespread adoption of VR. I'm not sure that it's going to be the next smartphone. However, if it gets more comfortable and the price point goes down, I could see it being a replacement for traditional desktop monitors. Instead of paying $1k for a 27-inch display you get as many large screens as you want. That seems probable to me. > > I know that sounds awfully boring and mundane, but that probably comes way before other applications. After all the original iPhone was just an iPod you could make calls with. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33358495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33358495
- rcconf 3y agoRegardless of how well this product does, the presentation and vision from Apple was phenomenal. It was like watching a cinematic AAA movie, so exciting and inspiring. There has been no other company that has been able to present AR and VR in such a way that is so exciting. The augmented reality shifting to virtual with the dial is so genius. I feel like a kid, and that's rare to feel these days. Love it, dream on Apple!
- the42thdoctor 3y agoCan't wait for the GPT integration with GitHub and start programming like Tony Stark
- ecliptik 3y agoCan't wait to run GopherVR [1] on this. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GopherVR https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GopherVR
- sekai 3y agoUseful metric to gauge potential success of an innovation: will it make consuming porn more enjoyable / transcendental?
- tennisflyi 3y agoI think if Apple leans in to it, porn might prop it up.
- eastbound 3y agoApple is too prude to authorize that. Maybe Apple’s strategy relies on EU’s sideloading law… to make porn both persona non-grata and available in VR. They can deny it’s here, and blame it all on EU, and let parents decide whether they give the “PUK” code to their teenager, and that’s a winning trio.
- riffraff 3y agoVR porn has been around for years. I do not own VR goggles so I can't comment on how enjoyable it is.
- paxys 3y agoThe hardware is no doubt impressive, as expected, but I just can't see myself in any of the situations they keep showing in VR/AR demos. Does someone really sit on their couch, put on a massive headset, and scroll through their vacation photos? Does someone watch an entire 2+ hour movie with a sweaty headset strapped to them (and plugged into a socket) instead of on a couch with their family/friends? Would I want to be in a group call with generated avatars of people rather than their actual faces? If the kids are having a fun moment would I want to run inside, grab my headset, strap it on and record a video, or just go join them? Would I rather work on this all day instead of a laptop? And the one thing I could maybe see this being useful for – gaming – was barely even mentioned in their keynote. If I'm dropping $3,500 and cutting myself off from the outside world (and no, that weird eye display thing doesn't count), a half-assed substitute for consuming the same content as I would on any other screen isn't going to cut it. Show me the actual future, in terms of software/content/communication/immersiveness, then we'll talk.
- capex 3y agoThey're just advertising the tech and the platform. Probably so people could come up with some real use cases and apps for it... otherwise what's the point of introducing it a year earlier.
- wly_cdgr 3y agoAgreed, bur just give this to some cool people, they'll figure it out
- drrotmos 3y ago> Would I rather work on this all day instead of a laptop? That really is the $3,500 question. Can I see myself preferring to work streaming my Mac's screen to a Vision Pro for my IDE, having and things like Slack and e-mail off to the side running on the headset? I don't know, but if I can, this seems worth it to me.
- oezi 3y agoThe key question is if this thing will stay cool enough to be comfortable.
- asimpletune 3y agoThe demo greatly exceeded my expectations. If the v1 actually works as well as their presentation, then this is going to fundamentally change personal computing. Sure, it's expensive, but that's because they are bringing to market something that is truly high tech. In 5-10 years this will be mainstream if it's not too expensive. It's going to be interesting because we're going to repeat the cycle of a new competing platform coming up, like Android, and copying the UX. This time around though it seems that they patented it really hard, so it'll be interesting to see that fight go down. Ultimately it's going to come down to if their products lives up to its claims, and if they'll be able to bring the costs down.
- srvmshr 3y agoI understand they have built a whole deal of spatial audio technology around it. But in a practical sense, I hope one could just plug in Airpods instead to go with the MR display. Under no circumstances, real world settings will match their design studio perfection. Too often stray sounds & ambient noise pollution could dilute that experience.
- Geee 3y agoYeah, they showed the guy using Airpod Pros in the airplane for noise cancellation (and privacy).
- rallyforthesun 3y agothey have shown in a video that they use the lidar to scan the room and its furniture for spatial sound
- kabanossen 3y agoFor someone who hasn't really tried this kind of thing (VR goggles...), what's it like after thirty minutes? Two hours? I feel reluctant because it's a huge thing wrapped around my head, isn't that something a twelve year old likes but not a 32 year old?
- rcarr 3y agoI was sceptical going into today that Apple were going to be able to make an AR product for $3000 that could justify that price point, especially when my XReal glasses only cost $399. I was even more sceptical when I heard they were going to be VR capable and goggles. Well fuck me. This thing looks absolutely insane. It’s come in at $3499 and if it performs as good as those videos make out then, if anything, it’s a bargain. I can’t believe they’ve managed to do away with controllers for everything except serious typing. I can’t believe they’ve managed to cram more pixels than a 4k TV on to the size of a postage stamp. And I can’t believe we’ll soon be reliving memories in 3d (just please put the same camera technology into the phones so the kids don’t have a childhood of staring up at goggle eyed parents until this tech become sufficiently miniaturised). Computers this decade are going to be incredible.
- qumpis 3y agoWhat stood out to you that justifies the pricetag, especially in comparison to cheaper competitors?
- oezi 3y agoLow latency Video pass through so that you can actually see the physical surroundings and/or your own hands to grab something that somebody is handing to you without getting motion sickness.
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- getmeinrn 3y agoCalling it now, the failure of this Apple product is going to be a big turning point for the company. Apple is supposed to be the company that sets trends, but instead they're following Meta down a path that has now shown to be a dead end, and no amount of aesthetics or marketing can prevent it.
- DANmode 3y agoHas it been a dead end because of no demand, or has there been no demand because of the poor UX?
- illuminati1911 3y ago100% agreed. This is going to be the point in history that people will remember when Apple went too far and how it destroyed the company...or destroyed the Apple as we know it today. I've understood every single Apple product so far (with some small exceptions) but this is just DOA. People are used to thinking that Apple doesn't go into a product space unless they can really nail it in terms of implementation and pricing. There is no excuse for 3499. This product is dead. If they can't manufacture it any cheaper they should have never done it.
- klelatti 3y agoIt may or may not be a dud but I’ve no idea how even a resounding failure could ‘destroy’ a company as profitable and with as successful a product as the iPhone.
- pcbro141 3y agoDestroy the company how? They have tens or hundreds of billions in cash. Couldn't they just discontinue the product and move on if it flops?
- stirlo 3y agoWhat makes you think they can’t manufacture it cheaper? I see this price as a way of earning a healthy profit off early adopters and allowing them time to get third party apps developed before they announce a Vision (non pro) for $1000-2000 that flys off the shelves
- riffic 3y agoThink before you post. Remember, whatever opinions or hot takes you have of this product now will be resoundingly made fun of for the rest of history.
- picture 3y agoYou make it sound like this is the new steam engine, but is it really that historical of a product? Nothing here strikes me as an entirely novel idea, in fact it just seems like an iteration on an already pretty well developed concept
- renewiltord 3y agoNot wireless. Higher price than a Quest. Lame.
- drdaeman 3y ago> Not wireless It's supposedly an autonomous device, although from the photos it seems that there's a brick on a cable to carry around.
- renewiltord 3y agoI'm just snowcloning "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame" since the comment I'm replying to seems like an unintentional snowclone of exactly what GP comment was talking about. Ignore me.
- ok_dad 3y agoIt’s everything that’s best from the VR world put in one package by Apple. The only downside to this device for VR might be if it isn’t supported by SteamVR or OpenXR. If this is a walled garden, it will be more of a niche product for professionals. If you can plug this into any PC to do VR, it’s actually quite awesome as a headset, but pretty expensive due to all the extra chips.
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- anonzzzies 3y agoI have been trying a lot of these helmets/glasses for work the past years. I didn't expect Apple to go for something that still needs so much work, but more is more. The Quest 2 is my favourite for meetings, some gaming, movie watching etc, but for work, I just use the nreal air. It really did become the replacement for my laptop the past 6 months. There isn't a lot of software for it, but I don't take my laptop anymore for coding. I do see when these things all fall in place, monitors, tvs etc could just fall away. Phones seems not very real now, but it depends on how fast the developments go. I had expected Apple to wait 5 or so years more with this until it's a market they can really take on; currently this is quite bold imho. But it's good; huge corps going in means hopefully someone will solve the battery usage of these things; even in this presentation, there was a battery connected. That's why I like the nreal; for all it's faults (mostly; just open source the thing so people can dig in!), it is very light and has the battery life of my phone, which is 15 hours. So I can wear it all days, there is no irritation or fatigue, and when I take it off, it has a lot of time left.
- Oddskar 3y agoIt takes a lot of time for people to warm up to a new device type. Probably makes sense to get a premium version out to make people yearn for it and build an ecosystem, and then create a more palatable version for mainstream use.
- ok_dad 3y agoThe only question I have is: can I use this as a SteamVR headset? If not, then Apple will only sell this generation to Apple consumers who can afford this sort of thing. If so, I'll buy one tomorrow, because an OLED ~5k-per-eye VR headset made by Apple would be worth that price, because I know it would work and be supported for a while. Oh, and I just noticed they seem to also support some sort of hand tracking, so knowing Apple that feature alone will be pretty revolutionary, maybe you won't even need controllers to play VR games anymore?
- alexb_ 3y ago>capable of running for two hours on a single charge. hahahahahahahahahaha This is absurdly awful. Nobody, absolutely nobody, is going to use this if it can't even survive two hours on a single charge.
- stiltzkin 3y agoSaved comment, like the Slashdot user mocking the iPod: "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."
- rektide 3y agoI hope this actually turns out to be a win. The idea, in my mind, being that comfort is a priority & swapping batteries should be low effort. I didn't see real info on the battery (no surprise), but I'm hoping it's like a 40Wh/10Ah pocketable little thing that isnt very noticeable. It'll be interesting to see how the fate of the IBattery goes. Will it charge fast? I hope so. Will it be easy to pocket? Will price be reasonable enough for people to pack a few? Hope so. Apple didn't talk about it but they shipped a presumably usb-c battery this WWDC. That's interesting for sure.
- herval 3y agoAnyone have any idea of what the FOV will be?
- jdprgm 3y agoNo tech specs available on https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/ https://www.apple.com/apple-vision-pro/ and no release date "early next year". Both are unusual for apple. I wonder why they didn't hold off to announce it when actually ready.
- jhatemyjob 3y agoKuo says supply chain issues.
- cududa 3y agoWhat do you mean "no tech specs" are "unusual for apple"? That's like their ethos. It has an M2, 2x "over 4k" display panels, and 2 hour battery life. Has Apple ever announced the amount of RAM in an iPhone?
- jdminhbg 3y ago> I wonder why they didn't hold off to announce it when actually ready. Apple has always pre-announced new product categories. No worries about Osborne-ing their own sales, time for developers to build before launch day, etc.
- dcchambers 3y agoThey need apps, thus they need developers, thus WWDC is the perfect time to soft launch it.
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- donbongo 3y agoThe only thing I dread is having my expensive ass monitor and speaker setup made obsolete by this.
- mellosouls 3y agoThere is not one mention in the Apple Press Release of any of the terms associated with the product's market: virtual augmented reality Etc It's a Spatial Computer don't you know. Very arrogant but clever marketing I guess. Anyway, as somebody who would normally by default scoff at the Apple tax, I'm pleased to see them taking the tech seriously, it definitely needs to advance to fulfill the non-gaming promise pointed to by Meta/Oculus. Perhaps the huge price is justified by the significant specs here.
- kjreact 3y agoWhy should Apple use existing technology words to describe their new product? They are trying to create a “new” product category and come up with their own vernacular for this segment. I can just see the patent trolls salivating over this new opportunity. At least now Apple can use each of these lawsuits to promote their product with their own terminology (ads via news articles, Apple Marketing 101).
- mellosouls 3y agoThey are trying to create a “new” product category But they haven't. Its a VR/AR headset; just relatively powerful and expensive; absolutely no need for the new terminology technologically; its pure marketing.
- gregmfoster 3y agoI wonder if folks can trade in dev kits for the first version when it's released next year. That was the case for me with the Apple TV dev kit.
- donohoe 3y agoHonestly, I just want a headset that's so slimline I don't look like a weirdo on an airplane, and to achieve that all I want is for it to be able to play movies in the 3d cinema experience. Doesn't need to be optimized for games or interactivity. I get that I'm likely minority but my VR needs are very simple.
- bullen 3y agoThis is pretty bad for VR. It will most likely flop because it has no reliable input. So far FrankenQuest 2/3 is on top: http://move.rupy.se/file/FrankenQuest.png http://move.rupy.se/file/FrankenQuest.png Let's see what Valve can do...
- pelorat 3y agoAlready have an index, and SO has a Quest2, but I'm holding out for their rumored standalone, codename "Deckard". I wish valve actually worked on the "Steam VR Home" environment again, because in 2023 their engine is ready and could be used to create something like ChatVR but on steroids.
- bullen 3y agoIt needs to nail many things: pancake with diopter and open drivers. I also want it to use lighthouse tracking since I have them.
- firefoxkekw 3y agoIf this device delivers 80% of what they showed, this is insane. Like with iOS, the devs that adopted early where able to make a lot of profit, 3.5k looks way too cheap for what they showed. Legit makes me want to work for apple.
- jumploops 3y agoAs a child I used to read books with just one eye open. This device will be revolutionary for me, but not because of the immersion. My excitement is tied to the two high resolution displays, entirely independent for each eye. I asked Brendan Iribe about this for Oculus back in Fall of 2014 and he told me they were two generations away. As a programmer, I'm staring at a screen all day long, and the effect has not been great. Having both eyes focused 1-2 ft in front of me has caused strain on my eyes, headaches, and seemingly permanent loss of far-sighted vision (my prescription gets worse every year). It's not proven yet, but hopefully the estimated 20ft focal length can help alleviate my eyes for my day-to-day work!
- dcchambers 3y agoIncredibly impressive technology with a price that is simply unreachable to almost everyone. Maybe if Apple can bring the price down in a few years we'll see widespread adoption, but until then I don't see how this is anything but a toy for the wealthy. Maybe it will have some commercial/industry adoption.
- drumhead 3y agoVision Pro implies a non-pro version could be possible. Cheaper and less funcionality. Either way its an interesting new product and knowing apple they wont ditch it after a couple of years. At this price its just going to be the pro users and richer people that buy it, but hopefully its going to spawn competitors from Samsung and the Chinese companies, at a much lower price but with less functionality.
- billychuck21st 3y agoThis is the "pro" verison, maybe eventually Apple will sell non-pro version that can connect with the pro one, but at a much lower price, then you can create experience for the whole familiar, if the set of 4 can cost <$6000, then it will be the same as a 8K tv + sound bar + a couple of work monitors.
- billychuck21st 3y agoThis is the "pro" verison, maybe eventually Apple will sell less powerful non-pro version that can connect with the pro one, but at a much lower price, then you can create experience for the whole familiar, if the set of 4 can cost <$6000, then it will be the same as a 8K tv + sound bar + a couple of work monitors.
- contemporary343 3y agoThose micro-OLED displays alone will drive the cost that high. Still kinda shocked to see them at this scale and in a product!
- bmcclure 3y agoOoof, the price point on this is killer ($3500). Will need to have some major differentiating features to justify that pricing compared to a Quest 3. I know they are fundamentally different (Quest having roots in VR but also enabling passthrough AR and Vision Pro focusing on AR ala Microsoft HoloLens) but hard to chew on that price!
- duncan-donuts 3y agoI think this looks cool as hell. The only thing that obviously sucks about it is how big it is. Admittedly I didn't really jump on the VR/AR hype train years ago so I don't know what's possible today. This headset gives me some serious uncanny valley vibes and kinda freaks me out which no other product in this space has ever done.
- motoxpro 3y agoAs someone who travels for work, this is well worth 3500. To wear these on flights, in small hotel rooms, etc. is definitely a game changer. I have no use for video games so the Quest stuff with the controllers never made sense. I think people that complain about the price are anchoring on the Quest price, same as people who anchored on MP3 player prices when the iPod came out at 10x the price. Even if the Quest was $100 or $50, I wouldn't buy it because its just not useful. For sure I am an early adopter on this one, but as others have said, this is Gen 1. It will get cheaper, faster, smaller, better, last longer, have less bugs, etc. This is the way technology works. It makes progress. So many unfortunate maximalist (bigger than the iPhone moment) or doomer (this is pointless and always will be) takes here. I'm glad companies still take swings in the face of the way people respond here. EDIT: I don't see these as "metaverse" glasses or VR as much as a $3500 display which framed in that way is completely reasonable, it's $1000 cheaper than this https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/pro-display-xdr https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/pro-display-xdr
- kllrnohj 3y ago> As someone who travels for work, this is well worth 3500. To wear these on flights, in small hotel rooms, etc. is definitely a game changer. I have no use for video games so the Quest stuff with the controllers never made sense. Eh? Things like watching videos on a flight were tried with Samsung Gear VR or Google Day Dream. It flopped. Want a virtual office on a flight? Well fire up Virtual Desktop on an Occulus today and you've got exactly that - no controller needed. On a flight something like Occulus' passthrough mode looks perfectly adequate - after all, the whole point in that scenario is to isolate not to socialize. So the plain/train/bus usage seems questionable, and do you really want to travel with something that bulky?
- motoxpro 3y agoThis is not the same experience https://youtu.be/74KInxQ8suI?t=208 https://youtu.be/74KInxQ8suI?t=208 The low res, jerkiness, having to use controllers, etc. wether or not the apple experience is worth it is up to the person. I don't see these as "metaverse" glasses or VR/AR as much as a $3500 display.
- drno123 3y agoIf it can run stable diffusion in real time, and “augment” people walking around you to appear naked, it will be a hit
- nateb2022 3y agoBecause of the "Pro" branding, I'm really interested in how soon we can expect a baseline non-pro Apple Vision. Determining what specs/features they're going to cut will be interesting. Also, with the release of visionOS, Apple is now maintaining a pretty hefty load of systems: macOS, iPadOS, iOS, watchOS, tvOS, and now visionOS. I have no doubt that beneath the UX they share a LOT of common building blocks, however I wonder if Apple will try to consolidate one or more of those platforms. E.g. macOS and iPadOS could be merged into a hybrid, watchOS is basically turning into iOS on a small screen, and visionOS may have some very interesting common ground with macOS -- possibly a continuity-screen style interop in the future.
- xtalax 3y agoI really hope that they have thought about alternative accessible gestures, not all of us have the luxury of functioning fingers
- stuckkeys 3y ago3500? Holly Applemolly. That is expensive as shit considering the VR is not new tech. Ofc, someone is going to smash at me with "well this is Apple ok." Cool story. Looks like a fun little gadget but is way too pricey for the consumer line. Unless ofc, they will have a beat down version without the "pro" features.
- coolandsmartrr 3y agoIt's probably the most expensive product launch price since Jobs returned to Apple. Apple probably considers Apple Vision as an alternative, not a compliment, to desktop computing.
- browningstreet 3y agoBets please: Date and city location of the first reported occasion of a person, wearing these outside, who get them stolen off their head.
- maxlin 3y agoFebruary 24th 2024 in SF
- rattray 3y agodup of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36201593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36201593 I think
- preseinger 3y agoHonest question: will this play any subset of existing VR games?
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- evan_ 3y agoNone of them. The only games they mentioned are essentially iOS games in little floating windows. Beat Saber is the only VR game most people know and Meta owns that so I think they're just ignoring games until some third party developer comes out with something that catches on. I don't think they expect anyone to pay $3,500 strictly for Apple Arcade.
- preseinger 3y agoOof. Thanks for the reply. Yeah, good luck, Apple.
- GiorgioG 3y agoAmazing tech, can't wait for it to get smaller and cheaper in the next few iterations.
- pyrophane 3y agoI was a bit surprised to see the "virtual monitor/TV" use case featured so heavily here. A bigger TV/more monitors is neat, but I doesn't feel particularly revolutionary. Also, if that is what you are after, you don't need a $3,500 device. I imagine that is just where they are at with the device right now, rather than an indication of where they are going.
- bovermyer 3y agoIt's really, really expensive. But after watching that video, I might have to get one. The appeal of having a portable display of arbitrary size but great resolution anywhere I go... that's pretty worthwhile.
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- richardw 3y agoFirst one of these things I’ve wanted. They’re honestly the only company that could pull this off. Meta has been doing some draft devices and Google will follow as hard as they can, but the UX, ecosystem integration and leverage with partners makes this a whole new animal.
- jdlyga 3y agoI used up all of my interest in VR with the Oculus Quest. It's cool for a month to watch Netflix on your ceiling on a giant screen, until you get tired of the poor quality video. The same goes with having 5 monitors surrounding you. This is stuff we were all doing pre-covid. So the ideas aren't really new. The real deciding factor is implementation. Oculus / Meta Quest remains on the cusp of "having potential, but not being there yet" for the past X years. What will this actually be like when you try it yourself? That's to be determined.
- IceHegel 3y ago2024 release date is disappointing. I wonder if they are waiting for 3nm chips? They didn’t announce any tech specs so I guess it’s all subject to change.
- turingfeel 3y agoThey announced all the tech specs. As for the chips, an M2 and a new dedicated chip for sensor processing called R1.
- jFriedensreich 3y agothis thing is so feature complete the only thing left i was kind of hoping to see is innovative use of the apple watch as HID. For example using the taptic engine as feedback provider and the apple watch sensors for improved microgestures similar to what google Project Soli was researching. i am very sure this will come in a future version if this prevails.
- ambyra 3y agoThe oculus 3 will be most people’s choice for games. This will cover “the rest”? Oof.
- sleepybrett 3y agoI pickture Mark Zuckerberg, in the fetal position in a running shower wailing "I'm not crying, you're crying."
- jdlyga 3y agoIt's a much better version of the Oculus Quest, basically. The reason why AirPods took off is because they were immediately, 100% useful in your day to day life. The same with Apple Watch (notifications, fitness). What is the day 1, must have use for this?
- FredPret 3y agoI have a sweet setup - huge screens, stand-up desk, mouse and keyboard at home. But when I go on holiday / a long trip / a weekend away, I have to hunch over my laptop. Now I can pack this thing and have 15 massive monitors. Heck, I can set up a little bridge-of-the-enterprise situation where I know where to turn my head to get the status of system x. This could really change how I work once it's all ironed out.
- divan 3y agoCan anyone help to orient in the current VR/AR/XR programming landscape in a light of this announcement? My goal is just to learn programming in VR/AR for myself. Assuming this is gonna be a leading XR platform in the coming years, does it make sense to focus exclusively on learning ARKit/RealityKit? Or there are some "true cross-platform XR" stacks are being actively developed? I vaguely remember some initiatives from Kronos group, but have no idea how this landscape currently looks like. Would really appreciate some elif5 brief into current state of XR programming.
- turbo_fart 3y agoNo controllers mean that people will get bored of this very quick. It's already tiring using a headset even if you can just let your arms flop. Also very out of date strap design that has the device resting on your face instead of using a builders hat type of harness system. Massively disappointing
- 0xDEF 3y agoEverything serious in VR/AR is being done using either Unity or Unreal Engine.
- UI_at_80x24 3y agoWhile I don't think this has yet shown 'the killer app' that will make everybody want VR; I do think that this has a killer feature that will revolutionize the segment. Facial expression matching on your avatar. The ability to make an avatar of yourself is kinda cool, but match the eye-tracking and other internal cameras you now have a way to have your avatar facial expression match your real-life expression. And THAT is what flattens the uncanny valley. Regardless of a 2D 'Teams/Zoom' meeting or a special 3D Facetime, you will (A) always be looking directly at the camera, and (B) your facial expressions will convey all the hidden subtext that missing in communication done via voice-only. This is a WIN over having a webcam pointed at your (messy) room too. I am not an Apple fan. I do hope that this can inspire the spark that gives us the VR killer app.
- avaloneon 3y agoFWIW, the Quest Pro can do both eye and face tracking on avatars right now, although whatever app you're using needs to support it and it's not yet photorealistic. (Meta's been working on photorealistic avatars but my understanding is they're currently too computationally expensive) I couldn't find a really good demo, but this should give a decent idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt0O4_56_qE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt0O4_56_qE Meta also announced plans to use face tracked avatars for video calling in What's App and Messenger, although I'm not sure the status of that.
- preseinger 3y agoHonest question: can I play Elite Dangerous or No Man's Sky on this thing?
- Uptrenda 3y agoI'm really surprised that Apple chose to work on this. Think about the track record of companies of similar products (in no particular order): - Google Glass -- tried and failed - Facebook's 'meta' -- slashed development - Metas space glasses -- now defunct, idk if they even even shipped - Magic leap -- did they end up shipping? - Microsoft surface -- looks like it was rolled out to 'enterprise' but does anyone actually use it? - Numerous headsets on the market causing nausea, eye strain, head aches, and social ridicule (lmao) Many big companies tried to do this but didn't really get past the gimmick stage. So yeah, it seems like a massive risk that Apple took or is taking to do this. Hopefully they've done enough to push the concept past these usability hurdles. I mean: as a tech guy this would be awesome if it delivers.
- coolandsmartrr 3y agoDid you mean Microsoft HoloLens?
- iamthepieman 3y agoI just can't imagine buying one of these for every person in my household so we can watch TV together or game together. My kids have friends over and they take turns playing on the switch. Even the kids who aren't playing get involved because they can see the screen and shout encouragement/advice/heckle. Even if they come down in price by an order of magnitude, that's still too pricey to buy one for everyone in my house and an extra or two for a friend. Totally see the value for certain specific business and industry uses though. My company has a product that help keep line and construction workers keep utility information up to date in real time by scanning poles, cabinets, transformers etc and identifying them along with positional information. This could be amazing for something like that and the price tag will just be a business expense.
- m3kw9 3y agoApple just started the AR/VR era, thank you very much. Every other company will use this as the new benchmark for VR/AR, every other device feels like prototypes compared to this.
- coolandsmartrr 3y agoI'm sure Apple Vision made Meta feel more validated in their efforts in Occulus.
- nemo44x 3y agoIf the price is a concern to you then this product isn't for you. Watch the video and look at the spaces the people were in. Every single one of them was in a high end space that has been maintained by maids (no clutter, sparkling clean) and professionally painted and styled and their spaces were large. At least initially, this is for the high end market. For people that want an object others can't really obtain yet. For those that want to be the first.
- zamadatix 3y agoI wouldn't read that deep into it, they used the same types of homes in the same announcement video for the Apple TV ($100) section. It just looks nicer to the marketing folks.
- hgl 3y agoThis seems to be another iPhone moment, but I wonder what’s its killer feature? iPhone had the killer feature of phone calls, so everyone has a reason to buy one, I can’t come up with any for AR. Don’t get me wrong, I’m actually incredibly excited about AR, I just can’t imagine how it becomes mainstream. It can of course be mainstream if it’s just like glasses and has all day battery, but it still seems pretty far away.
- Demmme 3y agoPorn. Perfect for porn. Honestly could be a deal breaker for porn. Just no clue if I will ever shelf out 3.5k for porn. But it's perfect for porn. Otherwise holy shit if this is taking of in any relevant capacity I will eat a broom. And it looks even weirder than I thought. It looks like a really interesting piece of technology while also looking tremendously weird. It's like a gold dagger pearcing to my dream of ever having a cool at/vr future ever.
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- sylens 3y agoThis headset is without a doubt an order of magnitude above things like the Meta Quest Pro, but even with that increase in power, UI, hardware, etc - I'm not sure they have really figured out the "why" for it quite yet. The biggest tell is the fact that the battery pack is going to give you only two hours of use. Part of the appeal of a headset being AR instead of VR is that I can use it while out and about to add context and value to what I am seeing. The battery is a major limitation that will keep its use squarely at home or in the office, where it essentially is just another monitor (or set of monitors).
- codq 3y agoPerhaps, but my sense is you can hot swap the battery while using the device, instantly getting back to 100% charge. Inelegant, but solves the battery problem.
- patwolf 3y agoI'm usually a fan of shiny new things, but this might be the first time I'll make an intentional effort to not buy something. I expect it's going to be fantastic, and using it for my development workstation would be amazing. However, I feel like this will be a net negative for humankind. My kids will plead with me to get them one, and it will be easy to say no because it's so expensive. But with each successive generation it will get better and cheaper until I can no longer use cost as an excuse. My kids will explain to me that they have no way to interact with their friends because they all use it. I'm already dreading it.
- spideymans 3y agoApple says kids younger than 13 shouldn't use the product. Another excuse for you :)
- l33tbro 3y agoFor now. Think it's pretty reasonable to assume these things become integrated with childhood over time in the same way other screens have.
- pityJuke 3y ago> However, I feel like this will be a net negative for humankind. The sinking feeling hit me too. I'm well aware of how my usage of computers and technology, despite how well they've served me professionally, have absolutely caused me to be a more isolated human being. Spending times on online forums were fun... but frankly, I shouldn't've been hanging out there, and instead been developing my social skills with my peers. But now having conversations with others while my AI eyes signal to them that I am totally listening? Sitting in an empty room watching a TV? Or worse, sitting in a room with someone else, both of us strapped up with a headset to watch something, which we have to sync through the internet. I mean, one of the demos was a parent sitting with one of these things strapped to their face so they could record a 3D Video of their kids. Instead of, you know, being with their kids. VR/AR was already here, but now Apple have made it real. Not looking forward to this.
- 3y ago
- ericzawo 3y agoI don't want the face computer.
- gslaller 3y agoDisney did a better job of demonstrating the Vision Pro's ability than apple. This is obviously going to be a hit, and by gen 3 - 4(with a ton a immersive apps) it might by trailing behind iPhone.
- wildpeaks 3y agoThey shouldn't have revealed the price today, it would have afforded them more time to build hype around features and in-person demos (and to give themselves a chance to reduce the price before release). Now it's going to kill interest in the device before it's even out.
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- __MatrixMan__ 3y agoI'm skeptical. But if I put my inner skeptic in the corner, what I'm most excited about is how it will affect ergonomics. Most input happens in a (typically horizontal) plane, but the human body is better modeled in polar coordinates. It's called "tech neck" because we've attached a screen to the input plane and then end up hunching while we look at it. Decoupling the two, if we can pull it off, will help a lot of people.
- peddling-brink 3y agoHanging a computer on on face seems like an ergo negative.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y agoThat's going to depend pretty heavily on what you're doing with that computer on your face. Ergo problems typically come up when you're assuming the same posture for long periods. If there are no other constraints to lock you in (e.g. desk and monitor), then I expect there will be much more moving around (perhaps even explicitly encouraged by the OS). Whether this offsets the weight-on-head thing... time will tell. Whatever the problems will be, they'll be different problems.
- quickthrower2 3y agoI could see myself enjoying this for work - insane screen real estate! And for catchijg up with family abroad IF we can see each other in 3D. How do you see each others face though? Can it reconstruct your face using AI or something (it already is looking at your eyes)
- summerlight 3y agoGiven the $3500 price tag + US only release, it looks like Apple also doesn't think that this product will strongly appeal to the market broader than enthusiasts. Perhaps the first version is more of an experimental product with no high expectations, so we probably need to see if it draws enough attentions from enthusiasts and generates a good level of tech hypes here.
- ur-whale 3y agoIf I need reading glasses, will I be able to use this thing?
- zamadatix 3y agoIn the announcement video they mentioned you'll be able to get prescription lens inserts via some partnership with a lens company. That said, even though they are physically very close, optically most VR headsets are somewhere around 6 feet focal distance, so if you don't need reading glasses for that it might not matter.
- stephenhandley 3y agovisionOS UI unsurprisingly still feels very tethered to a stationary AR model (i.e. mostly on couch / at table use cases). Of course hard to tell without trying it, but even if this had full day battery and wasn't a glowing please rob me sign, wearing this while navigating some outdoor spatial environment with the current OS seems like a great way to break an ankle. Maybe they have some gesture or accelerometer-based trigger to do the equivalent of Mission Control's "desktop" to minimize everything except for the camera pass-through so a person can safely walk around their house. Seems like if it is eventually going to become outdoor-friendly OS, it would need to minimally be multi-mode for stationary vs. moving user, where when moving there's more minimal overlay (maybe like Anon [1] hopefully minus the dystopian hellscape). 3D camera + spatial audio is probably most interesting near term thing for me in this version, will be interesting to see how people use that to record and share immersive experiences. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuaa4hJVC5s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuaa4hJVC5s
- djake 3y agoIf I want to try developing an app for this, should I just wait for the thing to be generally available and try to buy one? Would Apple ever offer some kind of developer preview device?
- lukko 3y agoI think they will probably offer some kind of developer program? Developers apply for early access to a device. I wonder if it will also be possible to preview Vision apps on Xcode via the simulator... Very interested to see how much access they give to the hardware and sensors via APIs.
- lukko 3y agoEdit: you will be able to preview in simulated rooms in Xcode simulator; Apple will have testing locations where you can test on a physical device.
- SebastianKra 3y agoI'm not going to make predictions that I'll later regret, but I have the following concerns: Comfort: This needs to sit on your face for 8 hours or more. Unlike with the Quest Pro, your face always touches the shield. If you wear AirPods Max with this, the majority of your head is covered, sweating and unable to breathe. Apple supposedly paid lots of attention to making the material breathable, but their rubber products also deteriorate notoriously fast, so we'll have to wait and see. Resolution: The displays have an impressive resolution, but I'm not sure it will be enough. So far, none of the VR headsets I've tried have come even close to matching the resolution that I would want for coding and desk work. But image quality at the same resolution can vary heavily based on the lens quality and the headset, so we'll have to wait and see. Input: I hated Hand Tracking on the HoloLenses and disliked it on the Quest. The pinching gesture becomes uncomfortable really quickly, as it requires more and more monotonous movement than tapping a key or clicking a mouse. However, they seem to heavily involve eye-tracking as an input method, which none of the other headsets have tried, so we'll have to wait and see. Price: Well, I have a year to justify this in my head.
- rahkiin 3y agoApple Vision pro has 3x more pixels than the Quest 3. Cannot say anything about the resolution without comparing exact display sizes though
- hxugufjfjf 3y agoIt has a battery life of 2 hours.
- fomine3 3y agoIt's not a problem if people don't mind (I don't mind if I can afford $3499) to buy multiple batteries, thanks to it's external.
- hxugufjfjf 3y agoI was just pointing out the fact that they said "This needs to sit on your face for 8 hours or more." when it is limited by the fact that it will only be available for the 2 first hours.
- fnord77 3y agoI imagine the tone of the comments would be a lot different if this thing were $500
- consultSKI 3y agoNot happening. Where is my new iPhone like the AR units used in "The Expanse?" Oh yea, the great SciFy series about the future of outer space is on Amazon Prime. Tim Cook: Stop by and I will show what you should have released. #justSayin
- idk1 3y agoNow I see why they never made a tv! Why make a tv if you can replace it!
- karowana 3y ago$3500 is insanity
- nikolay 3y agoI will never buy something like this and put it on my head. Sorry, Apple is way too late into this gimmick!
- nappy 3y ago> "starting at $3,499" I wonder what the model that you actually want to buy will cost and what average sales price will be. From the looks of it, I wouldn't be surprised if they sell a "pro" headband like Meta does for the Quest that has a battery pack that does better than the 2 hours of charge with the brick.
- dboreham 3y agoZuckerberg was right then.
- frou_dh 3y agoEven once this is released, it's going to take a while for the OS and applications to find their groove. So rich people will essentially be paying to beta test this. Probably going to be unequivocally awesome 3 years from now though.
- m3kw9 3y agoWelcome to the ultimate skeptics vs optimists thread regarding our AR/VR future
- tdba 3y agoThe external facing screen conveying the user's eyes and a sense of what they are looking at is a simple but really great idea that makes this device feel much more faithful to the idea of augmented reality than any predecessor.
- porsager 3y agoI'm just looking forward to being able to work/focus without the people around me always disturbing me, not thinking I'm doing anything important.. I hope this outside eye thing can be tweaked so I can use them as an "availability marker"
- VisionNoob 3y agoIt's hard not to be impressed by it. From a design standpoint, it feels magnitudes more human and thoughtful than everything else. It will help open the world of "spatial computing" to the everyday consumer (who has the money), not restricting it to the VR people who have already grown used to the limitations of current headsets and may not see how cool this handset-free, see-through-ish device is. The fact that existing apps already work on it is amazing, and who knows what new apps this will inspire. I'm excited.
- artemiszx 3y agoRegardless of the future of the device, it’s been a long way for Apple to get here. ARKit was released in 2017 and is on version 6 by now, so far mostly for gimmicks. The same is true for the lidar sensor on every iPhone and iPad Pros: consumers have been bearing cost of R&D and establishing the supply chain for years. Also don’t forget binaural spatial audio: though quite cool on its own in the AirPods, it is clear that AR/VR is the application it shines. Finally, Apple Silicon’s absolute performance and performance per watt gives them an definite edge over competitors. Although not needing handheld controllers is quite an Apple move, I am personally disappointed that the UX is not more spatial, but rather floating traditional 2D interfaces. As users of the first gen bear more of the initial manufacturing and R&D cost, let’s hope Apple can further iterate on the ideas, and also reduce costs for a proper consumer-range model.
- solarmist 3y agoAll new paradigms heavily crib from the original while finding their place. I fully expect this will fall away within 5 years if there’s a healthy adoption.
- xwowsersx 3y agoCan I use this with my Mac to replace my physical displays and work with the headset on? That would be incredible if possible.
- MacsHeadroom 3y agoYes, you can airplay your Mac's display to a virtual display inside the AR experience of the Vision Pro.
- mjamesaustin 3y agoIt looks like yes, but only one display for now. One of the reasons I'll wait till version 2 or 3 – my primary use case would be to have unlimited virtual displays for working in macOS.
- xwowsersx 3y agoRight, that's exactly how I feel. I'd already have 3-4 Studio Displays if it weren't so costly. To be able to have unlimited virtual displays would be so great.
- two_handfuls 3y agoThe presentation says that yes you can. Incidentally, you can also do this with the cheaper Quest Pro headset (or any headset in the Quest line, so $300-$1000 price range). There are a few options, [VRDesktop](https://www.vrdesktop.net/ https://www.vrdesktop.net/) being one.
- lvl102 3y agoThere’s no question this will be a game changer. Applications will be absolutely endless. Can you imagine putting this on and having guides on fixing homes or cars? I didn’t know it was going to be completely untethered. That you can walk around with this thing freely. By the 3rd gen and cheaper price, Apple will be selling a lot of these devices. As software ecosystem emerge to create this entirely new experience, I cannot wait to see what people develop to use this device. I don’t necessarily think this first gen will sell well but it will make people start thinking of all the possibilities. I am excited.
- uticus 3y ago> A unique dual‑chip design enables the spatial experiences on Vision Pro... The powerful M2 chip simultaneously runs visionOS... the brand-new R1 chip is specifically dedicated to process input from the cameras... Any information on the new "R1" chip? Signal processing sounds like FPGA territory, would be interesting to know what is unique for giving this chip new branding, versioning, and calling it out... versus just saying "the headset processes input from the cameras..."
- jwmcq 3y agoI think that signal processing is really only 'FPGA territory' because most people who need to do custom signal processing don't also have access to large scale chip design and fabrication capacity. For Apple, it could just be a matter of "we built a custom chip because that's kind of what we do now - might as well tell people about it". I agree that I'd definitely love to hear more, though!
- mikenew 3y agoI find it pretty hilarious that VR started off as a product for gamers, designed by gamers, and funded by gamers. And even before it made it to market, it was bought up by Facebook who said "no no no, forget games, we're going to give you experiences". And it's been a parade of uninteresting, nobody-actually-wanted-this products and ideas ever since. By far the most compelling things you can do in VR are games. Modded Beat Saber is incredible (and a total pain in the ass now that Facebook bought the game and tries to release a mod-breaking update every few weeks), VR Chat (a moddable, nerd/furry/whatever/anything goes playground), and Half Life: Alyx, a AAA game delivered by a gaming company. EDIT: almost forgot Phasmophobia. Hearing all your friends (and yourself) scream like little girls in unison is a priceless experience. I think Apple designed an incredible piece of hardware here, and I really would like to put on a headset and have as much virtual desktop space as I want while I'm sitting on a beach. But what I really want are games. That's what everyone has always wanted from this, and yet somehow the whole VR space has been taken over by these lame corporate execs who have never touched a game more serious than Candy Crush in their life, insisting they know better.
- programmarchy 3y agoI don’t care about games at all. Have never put on a VR headset. But I will likely pre-order Vision for a better productivity workflow. Apple will get the OS right, whereas Meta never had a chance.
- mrguyorama 3y agoOh good, just wait until you get regular headaches from attempting to decipher the text on your virtual screen. It works terribly. VR is an awful, desperate, not fit for purpose replacement for even a single 1080p monitor.
- bl0rg 3y agoMay I ask which headsets you've tried? I was stunned by the visual clarity of even a Pico 4, and I expect the vision pro to be far clearer.
- pazimzadeh 3y agoSeems strange to make a point about myopia being caused by screens being too close to your face minutes before announcing this.
- peplee 3y agoDoes this help or hurt someone like Magic Leap?
- m3kw9 3y agoHurt because if I buy this, I won’t buy the other.
- d_burfoot 3y agoFeels like the marketing department at Apple has gone down hill: is "Apple Vision Pro" really the best name they could come up with? How about something like "iView" or "iWorld" or "iSight"?
- codq 3y agoiSight was the name they used for their webcam a decade ago, and when was the last time they used the ‘iDevice’ naming convention? Seems they’ve been getting away from that for a long time.
- dangus 3y agoOkay since you just stepped out of the time machine, I can get you up to speed. A global viral pandemic happened, America elected a Black president, and Taylor Swift replaced Britney Spears as the most popular female pop star. Also, Apple stopped putting "i" before every product name and that whole thing isn't cool anymore.
- coolandsmartrr 3y agoApple seems to have been shifting from the i-prefix since Apple TV. The i-prefix trademark is very easy for competitors to mimic; there's no trademark protection. "Apple X" scheme is better suited to capitalize on and enhance the Apple brand. No competitor can mimic that, as "Apple" name is a monopoly under trademark protection.
- shrimpx 3y agoI could see this being revolutionary for in-computer music production, because currently that space is heavily modal and arcane to use with a mouse and tons of deeply buried UIs. Imagine organizing digital instruments spatially in your office and composing music with a spatial feel similar to using a hardware setup. Then you can flip between various setups. For example you might bring up the mixing environment when you're ready to mix, which fills your office with a mixing board, amps, compressors and whatnot instead of synths and drum machines. Could make digital modular synthesis a lot of fun, too, as you could move digital wires around in physical space.
- codq 3y agoI feel like announcing/releasing Logic Pro X for iPad just prior to the Apple Vision announcement was not a coincidence.
- rockmeamedee 3y agoLike a non-toy version of this: https://artsandculture.google.com/story/ar-synth/7AUBadCIL5Tnow?hl=en https://artsandculture.google.com/story/ar-synth/7AUBadCIL5T...
- shrimpx 3y agoThat’s awesome, thanks for the pointer.
- luis_cho 3y agoAll the other people that are attending the facetime call should also be using the glasses and why not an apple headphone. That way instead of talking to my brother I could talk to a Daft Punk member. We could change the name of the app to robottime.
- wg0 3y agoSeems like another collector's item. Something later to be looked at "Why X didn't take off?" sort of.
- ripvanwinkle 3y agoIMO what makes Apple different and more likely to succeed than Meta is that they are pursuing more concrete scenarios like viewing content in a more immersive environment or spinning up a large viewing surface where you may have none . Meta's problem is this focus around social interactions which just isn't taking hold apart from a niche audience of enthusiasts. Having tried the Quest Pro, if Meta pursued the remote office collaboration scenario more vigorously which is really quite promising and multiple desktop monitor replacement they would do a lot better The obvious drawback with the Apple device is price and it's going to have challenges with traction. The enterprise would be a good place to start but that doesn't seem to be Apple's forte
- dangus 3y agoNo matter what they try, Meta can't really implement a vision of an enterprise collaboration OS because they don't make a widely adopted desktop OS. More generally, the whole "productivity computer" market will also have to convince thrifty companies that they should spend thousands of dollars per employee on a headset for remote work when they already spent thousands per employee on a laptop that has a webcam. Nobody's going to be able to demonstrate ROI on these devices for making employees more productive. Buying your employees two or three $150 monitors has the same effect. This is why Apple's strategy of marketing directly to the consumer can work. It forced companies to support the iPhone on corporate networks, because everyone wanted an iPhone. It didn't matter that all these companies were Microsoft shops with Blackberry phones. Apple's still not going to get far with this thing until they can bring the price down to three digits.
- jusonchan81 3y agoI use Meta Quest 2 on an average around an hour a day - workouts, Netflix, Youtube etc. I am really excited but Vision Pro, but $3500 is a bit too high for me. I am now eagerly waiting for what Meta Quest 3 has in store for us. I'll just upgrade to that for now and will wait for Vision Pro cost to come down.
- collenjones 3y agoYep. I’m planning the same thing.
- ripvanwinkle 3y agoIMO what makes Apple different and more likely to succeed than Meta is that they are pursuing more concrete scenarios like viewing content in a more immersive environment or spinning up a large viewing surface where you may have none . Meta's problem is this focus around social interactions which just isn't taking hold apart from a niche audience of enthusiasts. Having tried the Quest Pro, if Meta pursued the remote office collaboration scenario more vigorously which is really quite promising and multiple desktop monitor replacement they would do a lot better The obvious drawback with the Apple device is price and it's going to have challenges with traction. The enterprise would be a good place to start but that doesn't seem to be Apple's forte
- cwkoss 3y agoMeta just isn't very good at building software that users want. They've been optimizing for advertisers and stockholders instead for the past decade. Really a shame that Oculus got acquired by them.
- cjohnson318 3y agoYeah, I haven't bought/used any AR/VR devices before, but I'm excited about a device that will offer seamless interaction with the rest of my Apple devices. > pursuing more concrete scenarios like viewing content in a more immersive environment 100%. I'm not into playing video games or watching TV, so their focus on real world things really appealed to me. It's a huuuge price tag, but I'm psyched.
- RandallBrown 3y agoThis was maybe my biggest complaint about the Quest 2. I would get a text message or notification on my phone. I could feel it vibrate in my pocket or on my wrist, but I couldn't actually see it unless I took the headset off.
- 76SlashDolphin 3y agoOn the other hand, Meta are very very good at acquiring key companies for their ambitions. My Quest 2 is a Beat Saber machine and everything else that comes with it is icing on the cake.
- rumori 3y agoI feel this is the point where they have to heavily rely on the developers and possibly give out devices to developers to experiment like they did with the Apple TV. It’s a huge risk for an indie dev to buy and bet on, it will be really interesting to see how they approach this.
- marricks 3y agoSo many technologies Apple has launched in the past 5 years seemed nifty & weird but were all being built to lead up to this: - Spatial Audio - Is any one a huge fan of this? It doesn't matter a ton outside of AR but matters greatly within it - Side Car - mirroring to a local apple device. It's useful as a second monitor but... mirroring your iPad or MacBook into VR and typing on it. Super useful. - FaceID - is it really better than using your finger to unlock? I think it is now but it wasn't initially... This face scanning tech is an entry point into the whole "face as an avatar" integration into their ecosystem. Also keeping a secure local image of your face on device. - Separating a subject from scene used live in iPhone "portrait" view and in photos to clip out w/ neural engine - sure that's fun, but in AR this is a lot more useful for presenter view they showed. That's off the top of my head. This totally could fail but piece by piece Apple has been building and trying out the tech for this in their ecosystem. If it fails, it won't be because of a buggy ecosystem. Actually, I still find side car buggy so it definitely could/will be buggy, but, it is a broad integration and feature set they've been working towards for a while.
- mft_ 3y agoMaybe add the 3D scanner on the back of the Pro iPhones (and some iPads?) to your list? It’s cool, but I never understood why they bothered, especially as they barely supported it with their own software.
- kylehotchkiss 3y agoI can't wait for more 3D photography - I bet an iPhone in the near future is going to support stereocameras somehow so that even pictures you take off the headset will be 3d. And I bet they're going to have more ways to view them without the headset.
- okwubodu 3y agoI made a similar comment almost a year ago and it seems like it's panning out nicely: > "Apple has been testing overengineered features that are suspiciously well suited for AR in broad daylight for a few years now. If they can't pull it off, I don't think anyone can." They've reached a stage where outpacing the field is just a matter of reaching into their grab bag of miscellaneous technologies.
- datatrashfire 3y agoToo expensive. It's giant and obtrusive. This will be a niche product for the Apple die hards. It will not reach mainstream acceptance.
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 3y agoThere’s a lot of impressive technology in the device but I’m not convinced that it’s going to be as popular as the iPhone. Even the Watch has a smaller market than the iPhone—I think this one is even smaller than the Watch. Perhaps if they made a lighter version that people could take outdoors and quickly take photos/videos with for sharing in social media (i.e. something to compete with Snap’s Spectacles), then it’d be easier to see more popular adoption. They wouldn’t really be innovating, though, and I’m not even excited by the idea of being surrounded by people who wear such glasses whenever I am outdoors.
- gowld 3y agoThis could be the new Nexus Q.
- sinemetu11 3y agoSo it's a big screen? The tech looks impressive, and I'm sure many people will buy it. I'm guessing they'll also shortly after find it as exciting as their phones...
- elfrinjo 3y agoWell, we have seen something like this failing about six years ago. Let's see whether - there is a new killer-use-case or - technology has advanced enough to make it less cumbersome or - Apple can generate enough hype around it to make it work on its own.
- rednerrus 3y agoThis has iPhone 1 feel. Killer hardware, killer idea, giant price tag, and no killer app. They were really stretching with the heart and the skyview app. Eventually they'll get the killer app and it'll take off.
- riccardomc 3y agoHow do I make a zoom call with this thing?
- turndown 3y agoVery interesting and I can’t really blame them on the price point; this is basically the pinnacle of the in-house engineering they’ve been working at since they decided to spin out their own processors. I think it is so early on for these kinds of products that the true “market” isn’t known or formed yet, so nobody really knows if this thing is positioned well or not.
- batmenace 3y agoAlso presumably the reason for making the first one a 'pro' version -- and beginning the presentation with a focus on work. Easier pitch that way, and once it can establish itself / there is an ecosystem, you can probably get more 'consumer' focussed versions with less compute power or that are plugin only etc
- TIPSIO 3y agoI could see this reinventing the living room. Imagine in 5-10 years when this tech is perfected. It's a Saturday night. You, your spouse, and 3 kids each have one of these strapped to their face. Why watch a movie on the couch facing a wall with a traditional flat TV format? Certainly Disney or whoever will invent 3D interactive plays/games with stadium type immersive entertainment. Living rooms will become circles like when people playing a board game.
- davem8 3y ago"It's a Saturday night. You, your spouse, and 3 kids each have one of these strapped to their face." That sound's like a futuristic hellscape to me. I sure I'm not buying 1 never mind 5.
- throwaway106382 3y agoI think what's much more likely: Parent 1: watching a drama Parent 2: playing a video game Kid 3: zoned out watching a movie/cartoon/playing videogames See this already with kids that mindlessly consume television while parents just drone out doomscrolling on facebook on their devices.
- lagrange77 3y agoI'm still curious, how they will enable developers to start developing for the device, before it gets released. A simulator will not be as effective as in the iPhone case. Maybe by something like the M1 Mac mini developer kit, that you had to return.
- mark_l_watson 3y agoI will probably wait for version 2 in about 2 years, but I am fairly certain I will buy one. I get a huge amount of value from my Quest 2, so spending money on a new toy is not unreasonable. I worked in the field of VR about 25 years ago (SAIC, Angel Studios, Disney project). VR and AR as consumer tech will eventually be AWESOME, but I am not holding my breath - it will be a long wait.
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- samuell 3y agoIt seems they waited for the Metaverse to tank before unveiling this?
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- wiremine 3y agoRandom thought: I'll be able to see what I look like in 3D... I'm both dreading it, and am also extremely curious. I'm guessing it will be hearing myself on tape. "I _look like that?" ...
- 0xr0kk3r 3y agoEager to see how it works with +6.00 glasses. That's been a problem with headsets for me.
- mjamesaustin 3y agoThey're offering magnetic clip-in prescription lenses to use with the headset. I assume the experience will be pretty good, though obviously it comes with an added price...
- ryanianian 3y agoNew hardware advancements often prompt us to anticipate corresponding strides in accessibility research. > Navigate visionOS simply by looking at apps, buttons, and text fields. App icons and buttons subtly come to life when you look at them. I will defer to experts for a more in-depth discussion on accessibility, but this feature does raise a concern for me. I have a condition that causes my eyes to rapidly move back and forth. My visual processing compensates. I see like normal, but my eyes do not stay still for long even when looking in one spot. Initially, I assumed that this condition would prove problematic for VR use, but I've found that I can see quite clearly inside current VR headsets, although I've never tried anything that has eye-tracking. The prism component of my prescription does reduce the area of optimal focus. In addition, certain degenerative and congenital conditions cause individuals to rely very heavily on peripheral vision if central vision is impaired. If visionOS can tailor its visuals to the user's specific visual abilities, it could provide a profoundly useful tool for these users.
- wahahah 3y agoApple seems to have a good track record for considering this kind of stuff. On the "Learn more about visionOS" section of the site they state this: > Like every Apple product, Vision Pro was designed with accessibility in mind. The flexible input system lets you use your eyes, hands, and voice individually or in any combination with features like Dwell, Voice, and Pointer Control.
- evan_ 3y agoSeems obvious there will eventually be a Vision Air that cuts some of the premium fit & finish and drops the price. They wouldn't have launched it with the "Pro" moniker unless they were planning to drop it later.
- alden5 3y agoIt'll be very interesting what they'll cut though, I have a feeling that any future version will be very similar. There's not much they can cut without making it feel cheep and comparable to a cheeper meta product
- ripvanwinkle 3y agoIMO what makes Apple different and more likely to succeed than Meta is that they are pursuing more concrete scenarios like viewing content in a more immersive environment or spinning up a large viewing surface where you may have none . Meta's problem is this focus around social interactions which just isn't taking hold apart from a niche audience of enthusiasts. Having tried the Quest Pro, if Meta pursued the remote office collaboration scenario more vigorously which is really quite promising and multiple desktop monitor replacement they would do a lot better The obvious drawback with the Apple device is price and it's going to have challenges with traction. The enterprise would be a good place to start but that doesn't seem to be Apple's forte
- wombat-man 3y agoI think the big differentiators are: 1. The avatar and face scanning for video chat 2. Screen quality, pixels shouldn’t be viewable. Meta could copy both with time but the 2nd just requires more expensive hardware. I never liked the meta avatars and it looks like the apple ones could work with any chat app?
- joewadcan 3y agoExactly ! The social stuff requires a network effect... hilarious that the makers of Facebook bet their chips on the same bet as their existing products. Apple knows it doesn't need groups of people to use this together, just enough early adopters to help pay for (and more importantly help guide) the user research and material advancement.
- gonehome 3y agoI can at least cash in a called shot for this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27583456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27583456 Fun to see the incredulity in replies two years ago for what seems like was inevitably leading to this. Still really curious what it’ll be like to use in person.
- Andrew_nenakhov 3y agoLong ago in the Avatar (2009) movie there was a scene when a guy was walking with a tablet-like device displaying some info, then grabbed that info with some kind of hand gesture and threw that info on a wall-mounted screen. This AR demo was the first thing I ever saw that did something comparable by taking the app off mac and opening it in VR. Now, I don't really want an AR glasses, but I absolutely want to grab things from my smartphone and display it on any nearby screen, and not in (clunky) Chromecast / Airplay way, but seamlessly.
- ncr100 3y agoWearing a personal sensor-net without it being also a VR headset might be nice - to control fixed screens around the room.
- rektide 3y agoMinority Report (2002) had a nice immersive space too. I've long long long been a fan of wearable & ubiquitous computing. Having great gesture detection to do physical computing with would really be epic.
- strictnein 3y agoI really wonder how much that "creepy eyes" tech adds to the cost. It would be great if they had a model without that, because for my use case its completely unnecessary and probably adds ~$500 to the price tag, plus additional weight and battery usage.
- drewbeck 3y agoThis made me think that they may have put everything into v1 so they can really learn what is necessary for a successful experience – ie v2 may come with a cheaper version without the external display because they discover that the display isn't necessary for the experiences that prove most successful on the platform.
- oatmeal1 3y agoRelated: In the full video demo they showed use of the external 3d camera - What appears to be a dad interacting with his kids while wearing the headset and capturing a moment using the 3D camera. Later he watches the 3D video he captured, reliving that moment. They could just call this feature the "Noncustodial Parent" feature, because absolutely no one is going to wear Apple Ski Goggles TM while interacting with their children, unless they are extremely desperate to draw out a few special moments into a year's worth of memories.
- cdme 3y agoThis whole product category feels like a solution in search of a problem.
- lagrange77 3y agoAre there any further infos on the R1 chip? I guess it will be some kind of DSP, maybe along with some machine learning accelerator HW.
- StillBored 3y agoFrom someone who ignored the iphone because I didn't think it was going to be a big deal and hopefully learned a lesson. OTOH, 12 milliseconds in the AR mode doesn't sound fast to me. I'm not in this space as other than a past oculus owner, but that is 8 frames of latency at 60hz. I thought that the best devices were much less these days.
- FinnKuhn 3y agoThis seems very promising by being based on already existing experiences (support for iPhone and iPad Apps). Considering all the other features the price of 3499$ doesn't seem to crazy, especially because it can replace all of your monitors, TV and more while also enabling entirely new experiences for basically the same price.
- sourcecodeplz 3y ago$3500 and you have to carry a weird battery around. The Oculus is so much better.
- Hippocrates 3y ago3,500 seems SO worth it if this can be used to comfortably replace external displays for long periods of time. If I don't need external monitors, I don't need my large desk, and I don't need my home office, which adds like 100k to the price of any home I'd consider. I'd just work from a bedroom, a closet, or my deck if I had this. It would be amazing if I could use this to do more work outside, while benefitting from a larger screen without glare, even though "outside" might be watered down a bit. It would be excellent for nomading or work/entertainment from a hotel room. This could be a great way to regain some privacy and focus in an open office environment, plus be able to personalize your setup. A digital beach backdrop is better than seeing my coworker scratch his crusty scalp 2 feet in front of me. The benefits for air travel are obvious. People already swaddle themselves with large noise cancelling headphones and zany neck pillows. I don't think this would be weird plane at all. I'd kill for an immersive 4k display over craning at my phone or relying on flaky seatback entertainment.
- Terretta 3y ago> If I don't need external monitors, I don't need my large desk, and I don't need my home office, which adds like 100k to the price of any home I'd consider. First thing my SO mentioned on seeing this was "wow, we can try more kinds of places to stay when we travel". Lots of VRBO / AirBnB can't work for remote work. This expands the inventory of WR options for less than the price difference of a week's stay.
- fomine3 3y agoWow, it's a great excuse to buy this expensive one
- goolz 3y agoThank you for this! While yes, it is expensive and I do think a bit wild I would pay serious, serious money to migrate away from my home office. Ever since I began remote work I have been cooking up ways to code outside but the glare alone puts me off from it. I am a solo kind of person who enjoys media a ton and am already a huge fan of Apple’s displays. I guess with all the naysayers here it makes me happy to see someone who understands the potential. This is awesome, and the first VR set I have wanted to purchase. The price is steep and I may even wait a generation. But if I had to bet, this will end up absurdly successful similar to all of their other recent home runs.
- vonnik 3y agoLooking at the demo through the link, the next step here is to translate whatever the dog is thinking into natural language. Would much rather get enriched reality than a 3D theater for my 2D screens. I'm sure that's coming eventually, maybe through an app store.
- coryaf 3y agoCan we tell if it will be possible to develop with anything other than Swift? For reference, Apple says that it will have "familiar tools and frameworks like Xcode, SwiftUI, RealityKit, and ARKit, as well as support for Unity and the new 3D-content preparation app Reality Composer Pro" My guess is that since we can use other frameworks like react native on iOS that you could eventually do things with something like Python or JS, but someone will need to create some frameworks to interface with their APIs. Any thoughts?
- ThinkBeat 3y agopR00000n. If the Apps are restricted in the samme manner other Appple devices it will be a bit more difficult. but this will create a whole new level of porn for the world. Combined with the rather impressive advances made in teledildonics one can get a lot closer to "being there". Various mostly shitty "VR" enabled ways to watch porn have been developed but have been disappointing in use. This may kick off a whole new frenzy. Some folks will make a lot of money. Esp if they manage to combine it with the independent "Content creators" In fact, getting out early and opening in a studio making recordings for people would be sustainable for a good while. If you are in the right location.
- jeppester 3y agoVR screens eliminate the eyes' ability to focus naturally. Unless this devices solves that problem, I find it hard to believe it will be comfortable to wear for many hours per day. And if the device is not comfortable to wear for longer durations, then it doesn't make sense that it's priced as premium work equipment.
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoSo if I get this thing I don't need to return to the office right? /s
- AHOHA 3y agoFor the facetime part, you are seeing people WITHOUT the VR headset, what will they/you see if all is using it!?
- rallyforthesun 3y agothey will see an avatar of you with some kind of facial expression and eyetracking, but with a different name (not avatar) of course. But they wont see a videostream of you, what is kind of akward imho.
- slushh 3y agoThe front screen is brilliant. If you commute by train it will be socially acceptable to wear the headset. Apart from frequent flyers, millions of people will by the headset for the illusion of private space.
- lukko 3y agoThis is the first time I have been excited about XR - it feels right. Seeing it makes me feel like how I saw technology as a kid, sort of like a magic parallel world. I think a spatial UI will sit much better with people, our brain obviously evolved to manipulate stuff in 3-dimensions. It's very exciting to see where this will go.
- xnx 3y agoThe product looks really good. Hope someone also starts selling a "dumb" version (no cameras, sensors, speakers, external display, etc.) with the same quality internal display. It would be great to have a large high-quality display that can be used in a reclined position.
- activitypea 3y agoHow do you sell this without the cameras and sensors?
- adelarsq 3y agoIts safe for people that uses glasses like me? How this works?
- the_watcher 3y agoIt would very obviously be useful for work if you can actually get high res, effectively unlimited monitor space. Maybe not for everyone, but people already spend $3500+ on monitor setups somewhat regularly (and employers definitely do this). Apple themselves sell a single monitor that costs $2300 when fully spec'd out (5k, but the point is that they know what people spend on monitors). I can't figure out why that wasn't the highlight of the demo, since that's just very clearly the easiest way to sell a $3500 device with this specific set of features. The recording video of a kid's birthday was one of the most ridiculous thing's I've ever seen. I'd maybe record my kid with something like this every once in a while, but I certainly wouldn't be wearing ski goggles while he blows out candles.
- ray__ 3y agoYes, I agree with this. I'll only be buying one of these if it means I can replace my work displays with it–I'd happily pay the exorbitant price if it meant being able to have the equivalent of an unlimited high-res display anywhere, at any time. The lack of sub-pixel rendering on macOS means that I'm already forced to buy an expensive 5K display for every place that I plan to do work; a headset like this is a bargain in comparison. Obviously this means that the headset will have to be comfortable enough to use for long periods of time and have high enough resolution to compete with a hiDPI display. I doubt that this device will be able to deliver on both of those fronts.
- dwhitney 3y agoYeah that was silly, but aren't all of the new iPhone cameras 3D cameras? People take photos/videos all of the time. Now you can immerse yourself in them. I think it's pretty cool
- bredren 3y agoPresumably the current and next iPhone Pros can capture 3D video. I don’t know why this wouldn’t have been ridiculous, because it really is ridiculous to suggest this would be worn by a parent during a young child’s happy birthday singing and blowing out the candles. This idea seemed like way too much of a stretch for this intro. They had to know this, so I am very curious what the reasoning was for why they included it.
- TheAceOfHearts 3y agoJust commenting to leave my footprint for when people look back on the discussion a few years from now. The high price seems like it'll be a barrier to adoption, which will limit the amount of developers willing to invest time in developing for a closed platform. It'll probably take off in the furry / kink scene. The real killer app will have something to do with sex or porn, and Apple will try to kill it off or refuse to acknowledge it. On release day some couple will record a first-person POV sex video and upload it to a major porn site. If the spatial video recording experience is really good it might take off in the porn space.
- activitypea 3y agoYou thought about leaving a comment for people 10 years from now, and decided to open with "this will be big for furries"?
- TheAceOfHearts 3y agoFurries have a lot of money and are often technologically proficient. It probably won't take long after release before it's possible to transpose an avatar or fursona over someone, a mix of VR Chat and IRL.
- oatmeal1 3y agoIf you're going to write something that's going to be seen in 10 years, it's good for it to be right!
- Apocryphon 3y agoLeaving a ten year time capsule comment to reference a currently fifteen year old movie which repeats an evergreen point about the two things that drive technological adoption and innovation: https://youtu.be/V5TqHKB_RDM https://youtu.be/V5TqHKB_RDM
- drvdevd 3y agoGonna leave my footprint on this one too. Here’s my take since my favorite app on my Meta Quest 2 is actually Immersed (for virtual desktop / multi monitor setups): I’m less interested in either Apple or Meta here because I think Apples Vision Pro ideas just reinforce what we’re being told repeatedly: the industry wants to move away from screens, and the future is not screens. We have two big things on the near horizon now: AR/VR and AI. The industry as a whole will push these technologies until they are the norm. Smartphones, PCs, tablets and laptops (maybe even TVs?) will become legacy technology, but they will of course live on in emulated forms (a “window”). Conversational and ubiquitous computing will be the future, like it or not.
- dandongus 3y agoFor those of us who can't be bothered to watch through the whole announcement to find where they say it, what's the refresh rate of this thing?
- denysvitali 3y agoI think they mentioned 12ms (~ 83fps?), but don't quote me on that.
- zamadatix 3y ago12ms was the passthrough latency. Screen refresh rate is likely faster.
- b_d98 3y agoI really
- jakobdabo 3y agoI think wearing such a massive thing on your head is a dead end. It may become a niche product for professionals (as the price and "Pro" in the name suggest), but it's not practical for everyday casual use. Is it still out of the reach from the current state of art in technology for a thin client, not much heaver than sunglasses - just the visual component and some simple circuit to receive the signal from an iPhone?
- koromak 3y agoIf the virtual screens feel as good as my 4K external monitors, then I'm in 100%. Theres a good chance they won't though.
- rallyforthesun 3y agoif the resolution per eye is 4k, that would mean that you need to scale the screen to the whole fov of the hmd and stop moving, because that might blur the content on the virtual screen. i think, apple has put a lot of effort to get around the bluriness but there wont be more pixel available than there are on the little screens. So, its probably a downgrade in resolution for you
- mupuff1234 3y agoDoesn't even come with a controller, which I assume will eventually come out and will cost 100$+
- nblgbg 3y agoThe one unintended effect is that the apps may charge extra for supporting this! For example, Disney+ or the NBA may charge extra $$ for supporting this device! Also, everyone is assuming that it's powerful enough to run the development environment. We need to wait until Apple releases the specs.
- 037 3y agoMy feeling is that since we sometimes looked away from the phone, they are now sticking it directly to our faces.
- vivegi 3y agoThis is probably going to be even less successful than the Apple watch in terms of adoption. $3.5k for a personal device -- perhaps it will capture a niche. Genre defining like the iPod or iPhone, this isn't going to be.
- krishna0902 3y agoa lot of things started with games :)
- botverse 3y agoIt’s sad that they had to partner with Unity instead of EPIC… So no Unreal engine for this because of the store dispute, great loss for both parties
- jablongo 3y agoThe tech is amazing, but also ridiculous. Think about how much time and cost went into developing these features: - Creepy Eyes fake transparency (a work around for the fact that you look dumb wearing ski goggles on your face) - The realistic 3d facetime avatar (a work around for the fact that you look dumb wearing ski goggles on your face, creepy eyes isn't a good enough work around for facetime, and you need an external camera to do facetime). None of the use cases seemed to compellingly improve productivity or well being, they just close the gap between the digital and physical w/ no benefit. I'd have been more convinced if it was depicted helping a mechanic assemble an engine with AI annotations and advice, but instead almost all of the demos seemed dystopian. The eye tracking technology involves shining infrared light at your eyes at all times - not an expert but I can't help but wonder if that is going to have long term effects. https://ehs.lbl.gov/resource/documents/radiation-protection/non-ionizing-radiation/light-and-infrared-radiation/#:~:text=Prolonged%20exposure%20to%20IR%20radiation,eye%2C%20swelling%2C%20or%20hemorrhaging https://ehs.lbl.gov/resource/documents/radiation-protection/.... It is ironic that Apple Health is launching an eye-health initiative which reminds kids to keep their device far enough from their face to prevent eye damage, and then is releasing another device that is covering your entire field of vision at like 2 centimeters away from your eyeballs (Edit: this last part is a non issue because the focal point is not so close due to the lenses).
- activitypea 3y ago> Creepy Eyes fake transparency (a work around for the fact that you look dumb wearing ski goggles on your face) - The realistic 3d facetime avatar (a work around for the fact that you look dumb wearing ski goggles on your face, creepy eyes isn't a good enough work around for facetime, and you need an external camera to do facetime). And transparency mode on modern headphones is a waste of time since you can just take them off. I agree both the demoed features suck and I don't want them in my conference calls, but stuff like that is a necessary bridge for a new product category. Hard to call that wasted effort.
- simse 3y ago> And transparency mode on modern headphones is a waste of time since you can just take them off. Unless you want to continue listening to what's playing through the headphones. I enjoy listening to both the nature and quiet music when I go on walks.
- mrsmee89 3y agoThis is spectacular. What a great achievement. I have a few questions. 1. Will the battery pack be an additional charge? 2. What will be the defining factor for higher priced models (memory, larger battery, cellular etc)? 3. What effect on the body will this have for long term daily use? 4. Will content creators be able to price their content differently for this device? 5. How will Apple display the demo in store? 6. Is there a feature that allows multiple users? 7. Will this function as a real computer like a Mac or more like an iPad? 8. Is there a feature to prevent social awkwardness?
- themagician 3y agoI think there is a possibility that this device actually looks the way it does in the promo. Every VR device that's come to market so far show a promo that's completely disconnected from the actual experience. They show these crisp, high resolution images. But when you get the headset on you've got this really soft image, with damn near abysmal edge sharpness, and a display riddled with fun new unique artifacts like mura and screen door.
- londons_explore 3y ago>Early next year Wow - It's 8 months till you can even buy one of these!
- dottjt 3y agoI think a big limitation with VR headsets in general, is that if you have a morning facial routine (moisturiser, sunscreen etc.), it smears all of the headset. In fact, it's probably the primary reason why I stopped using my Quest 2. It's like, I used to use it religiously, and then the moment I started a facial routine I stopped using it immediately.
- nlitened 3y agoYou don’t need facial routine for your digital avatar
- mathgorges 3y agoNo, but many physical avatar do. Especially if the avatar is fair skinned and/or experiences a lot of sun light ;-)
- mindvirus 3y agoAssuming that test is crisp and usable, and it's more of a Mac than an iPad, this looks very promising. If pass through works well, I could see this replacing a laptop for a bunch of use cases.
- b_d98 3y agoThis seems like incredible hardware from apple, but I'm really hoping for root access to be more prevalent in the mixed-reality space. I really don't want to see another ios and android walled garden with so much creative potential on these devices, especially considering Meta seems to be taking the android position in the space.
- ncr100 3y agoit may serve in the same way the ipad / tablet adoption did - though this is more limited as it's single-user & ipads can be shared easily multi-user
- siva7 3y agoLoneliness Accelerating Device is what i would call that thing. Hope i will be proven wrong.
- dougb5 3y agoDid they intend to make their 50+ demographic nostalgic for "Apple-Vision", the BASIC demo program that shipped with the Apple II? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqPe7pE_5uQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqPe7pE_5uQ, https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Apple-Vision https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Apple-Vision). Boy, that takes me back.
- ftio 3y agoThe current price of this first-gen product will make it a niche, early-adopter kind of thing — just like the original iPhone — but the Vision Pro is going to absolutely slay over the next five years. Which isn't to say that this won't sell out. It's going to get a lot smaller, lighter, more comfortable, and more capable (with better battery life) and be years ahead of the next best competitor. They're also setting this up as the "Pro" version, which means a lower-priced model is already planned, maybe in two years. In ten years, these'll be regular ole glasses, maybe even a contact lens. Amazing launch.
- wb14123 3y agoI don't see lots of AR/VR techs in the intro: there is no interaction with real world, there is no 3D object other than virtual screen and virtual controls. It seems to be just a traditional portable computer with bigger screens. I can see the potential of it. But at the current stage, it's hard to justify the price.
- gnicholas 3y agoIt would be amazing if the downward-facing cameras could be used for 'typing' on a phantom keyboard. It would be weird to do so without tactile feedback, but it would make it possible to be productive anywhere, without having to bring a keyboard along. I'm sure that someone will come up with some sort of alternate text input method, given that Siri is not great at speech-to-text, and speaking out loud is terrible for privacy.
- nkotov 3y agoI'm not exactly sure what the "aha moment" is for this compared to the iPhone launch. Don't get me wrong, it looks incredibly exciting and I love new shiny tech but the demo videos felt incredibly lonely and I can't really picture myself using this on a daily basis for hours. I have a Quest 2 that gets used once, perhaps twice a month for VR Chat or to entertain family/friends with Beatsaber. Once you played enough VR, you kind of get over it. It's like the iPad for me. When I want to get serious work done, I use a MacBook. For quick stuff, the iPhone is sufficient. The iPad then ends up being an entertainment device.
- coolandsmartrr 3y agoThe iPhone's "aha" seemed to come from making existing workflows so much easier with touch gestures (e.g. scrolling through texts and contacts). It addressed and improved upon a pain point that we all knew from using cellphones. > Once you played enough VR, you kind of get over it. This, very much. It's one thing to invent in a new device category, it's another to turn it into a habit. The iPhone targeted existing habits, such as checking emails and watching videos, that made it very sticky. I'm not sure if Apple Vision has a sticky application, especially with the obstacle of (1) wearing a headset (2) plugging the battery chord (3) enduring the weight.
- nojvek 3y agoIf the displays and sensors on the device are as good as they say they are, I'd buy it. Watch a movie, play a game, workout, code, dance, be fully immersed. Like have multiple screens around my garage walls in 3D where I can walk up to them. I tried NReal AR glasses, Roku, Quest, Holo lens. They didn't feel right. If Apple vision pro could really take me to another world, be immersed for multiple hours, $4000 (including tax) is worth the experience.
- Sodman 3y agoOne use case I'm psyched about for this - shared virtual whiteboarding for remote workers. No traditional apps have been able to reproduce the feeling of being in the room with a small group, collaborating on a shared whiteboard, feels like a huge opportunity!
- ncr100 3y agoI feel collaboration is the 'killer app' for this tech - though it won't achieve that. Now, how big is that market?? I don't think it's all that big. yet. Generative AI is making an impact on that world too - perhaps there will be a change in generative AI's presence in creation / media creation, which will require AR / VR. I think THIS product will be sold as a PC / Monitor replacement, and in 5 years the collaboration killer app will be the "novel" usage.
- rektide 3y agoAgreed. Huge opportunity. Computing always has been about information spaces, and making those implicit informatics explicit & visible is highly interesting. Apple notably didn't show a single collaborative capability, to my eye, the entire time. Everyone was inside their own pocket space. They went extra far to let people videoconferencing as normal while wearing it, preserving the current norms for shared connectivity.
- zmmmmm 3y agoThey'd have to do a lot better than anything I've experienced. There are loads of these whiteboarding apps, including a first party one from Meta and they all suck when you try it. If you carefully look though you'll see they don't demo shared anything. No people playing games together, watching movies together, literally anything. There's something missing here in the story, I don't know why they would have left that out. I wonder if you really can't do it.
- mrdatawolf 3y agoThe Apple faithful are going to wake up tomorrow and realize THIS is what they used to make fun of Google and Microsoft for. It's a pair of REALLY expensive snow goggles. Worse it's goggles with a tiny battery life, a bizarre generated face, it looks goofy and the first time that cable snags on anything... Imagine Steve Jobs on stage and he says "One more thing..." and puts that on his face, That would NEVER happen. This is cool in the same way the Newton was! (edited for typo)
- keithxm23 3y agoI find it fascinating that Apple is deliberately avoiding the terms VR or virtual. 51 uses of the word "spatial" but only 1 "virtual" which is also not in the context of VR. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/06/introducing-apple-vision-pro/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/06/introducing-apple-vis...
- kqvamxurcagg 3y agoVery good point - I guess they are trying to redefine the terminology in this category and create unique marketing keywords. I suspect that is too late, VR Goggles just seems to ingrained but perhaps I'm wrong.
- mgkimsal 3y agoWas sort of expecting a demo of interacting with a real object in your field of vision. And... maybe 'interacting with' isn't the right phrase. But the idea of looking at a table and being able to call up info about the table, or a dog, or a couch, or mountain, or whatever... I suspect that may come later, but was a little surprised to not see it out of the gate.
- JustSomeNobody 3y agoNope. I get it, it's Apple and it's great and all that. I'm just not going to wear that on my face. I'm not.
- Pxtl 3y agoI always figured Apple would target Glass before going into full AR. I mean, the "smartwatch for your face" accessory for your phone seems more up their alley, something lightweight and fashionable that just sends you notifications and turn-by-turn directions and stuff like that. Going instead for this huge bulky thing is really surprising, since it's so far outside their normal wheelhouse. It seems like the real things it would bring to the table would be gaming and 3D viewing/modeling applications, which were barely considered in the demo.
- browningstreet 3y agoMy two warm takes, as a non-gamer and “never VR” guy who wears glasses and is old enough that I need new prescriptions every year and I don’t see trying to keep up with yet more annual prescription lens purchases: In 5+ years will it be glasses and we can dump the iPhone? That'd be good (I realize it’ll surely take longer). I might pay $2K for that but I like taking my glasses off and sitting in front of my big 4K TV without anything on my face. So take that use case away unless I’m on a plane. Mark Zuckerberg must realize how unserious his efforts have been. He probably can't ever do anything this ambitious, coordinated, and platform integration dependent. Even with his Brewsters Billions. It’s about as refined and impressive and futuristic as I could’ve expected a v1 product to be, but while I enjoy gawking at it I don’t really want to take one home. No one’s going to say, “Where’d you leave the vision pro’s?” It’ll be goggles or mask or something else. Not well named. Except they won’t be shareable (with lenses in), because they’ll be too personal, like a hat. I maxed out the new Mac Pro on the Apple Store site and it came to $10K even. With full memory. That’s really blowing my mind.
- gtop3 3y ago> No one’s going to say, “Where’d you leave the vision pro’s?” It’ll be goggles or mask or something else. Not well named. Except they won’t be shareable (with lenses in), because they’ll be too personal, like a hat. I could see Vision sticking as a name in colloquial use. Vision Pro is a signal there is room for a lower price headset in the future. No one ever called their iPad an "iPad Pro" in colloquial use. This name is least as good as Quest.
- browningstreet 3y agoFair. Probably. We’ll grow into it. Vision feels slightly too generic and off product. Kinda like how they spell it “Apple silicon” and not “Apple Silicon”.
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- gervwyk 3y agoI’m due for a new mac, going to wait it out and give this VR thing a proper try. Remember those first cell phones.. we’ve just past the “dude why would you carry a brick in your pocket” situation.
- nunez 3y agoIs anyone else terrified that this is the beginning of the end of "outside"? Like, I can see people wearing these full-time, everywhere, to "enhance" life at first with the ultimate goal of these _replacing_ life (i.e. why go outside, where you have to spend money and deal with people, when you can just wear these and be in a world that you control without leaving your couch?) Or am I just becoming a curmudgeon? If I am, I didn't expect it to happen at 35!
- ncr100 3y agoNo - may I still reply to your question? I think MORE efficient indoor-tech, that allows you to get your stuff done MORE QUICKLY so you can go outside, is a goal we all should seek, as technologists. Not forcing users outside in order to get their work done . . (not that is what you were saying).
- paul_grisham 3y agoActual delusion
- johndhi 3y agoYou know why phones are so addictive and VR isn't? Phones make us feel like we have control over how and when we use them. We can just set them down. With something you strap to your head that illusion of you controlling it goes away. We don't want to strap something to our head because it means admitting we want our life ruled by technology.
- rektide 3y agoI liked your first drift but where I see the real hangups happening is with software control. People put up with a lot of fussy uneven software they can't really tweak or adjust or make comfortable. Prescripted everything is endurable. But if we have to live inside the software, it seems like all the fixed feature way of doing not-so-soft not-so-personal computing today will be oppressive. The metaverse idea is interesting most of all to me because it has to be a better computing space, for all kinds of experiences to be hosted & play together somewhat. Right now, it doesn't feel like there's many companies that have open possibility & rich multi-party ecosystems in their genes (especially after G+ turned Google's back on APIs and interoperability). Almost all the prevailing winds in software seem going the other direction, which leaves a lot of new ecosystem resistances for XR/spatial to grow well & flourish.
- hyperthesis 3y agoShadows help ground images (e.g. characters in games seem to float without contact shadows). Seems simple, but requires a 3D model of the room to work properly. LiDAR Lag between reality and virtual would be noticable side-by-side, no matter how much the "R1" chip reduces lag (12ms)... Ah! they might do the Guitar Hero trick, and delay the reality feed by the same amount, so they are exactly syncronized... see-through AR (like google glasses) can't delay reality. The outward display of reverse faux-transparency is a nice touch, displaying a fuzzy image of the wearer's eye on the front. (Though not sure what to make of the back-side of the displayed image - could a user ever see it?) I think this is the first major Apple developmemt without Jobs' involvement?
- ncr100 3y ago"lag" of 12ms is good enough - less than one frame of 60fps. it's 1 frame of 83 per second. should be good enough.
- lardo 3y agoA Dyson Sphere for your attention.
- uejfiweun 3y agoIt looks sweet. I want one, for sure. But I have to say, it's a little concerning that they haven't publicly stated the FOV. FOV is an absolutely CRUCIAL issue in modern XR, and I have a feeling if Apple had actually solved it, they would be bragging about it just like how they're bragging about "23 million pixels" or whatever.
- nforgerit 3y agoFinally I got a clue to how the next Ted Lasso season is going to look like: He's going to coach remotely having everyone happily wearing a VP. Joke aside: It's mind-boggling how Apple uses product placement to hammer pictures in our heads and get us to consider not looking like a jerk anymore when wearing AirPods just because some "icons" are wearing them.
- trafficante 3y agoWho else noticed that none of the presenters were actually wearing the device they were unveiling? Best case scenario is they didn’t want to monkey around awkwardly with fit and adjustment. But even in that case, wasn’t the whole thing pre-recorded anyways? My hunch (combined with the 2024 release date) is that this thing isn’t fully baked yet.
- tabulatouch 3y agoI love the "spatial" term, it was in the air.. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/s-arcade-first-spatial-augmented-gaming-system#/ https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/s-arcade-first-spatial-au... My bet, or wishful thinking, is that lower-fi spatial augmented experiences can be more fun and engaging when "shared" with our senses. Maybe also cheaper :D
- 1letterunixname 3y agoApple doesn't do enterprise or gaming. VR headsets is a "flying car" tech category: always around the corner, but unlikely to ever reach widespread adoption.
- JumpinJack_Cash 3y agoThey got duped into the Metaverse?
- thih9 3y agoAll this - software demo, hardware demo, and the price - feels like a developer preview. That’s fine, it’s the wwdc after all.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ChildOfChaos 3y agoIt seems to me that Apple is going for a very different direction than Meta, I see a lot of comments online by people that don't seem to understand this or perhaps didn't see Apple's presentation, they were very clear and careful about how they presented it. Even when showing gaming, it wasn't VR games, it was a screen in AR playing a traditional game. It seems to me this is also in the name and the branding, it was heavily rumoured that it would be named Reality Pro, but naming it Vision Pro seems to set what they are aiming for more clearly or at least how they are marketing it, it's about vision and essentially a replacement for screens, not a metaverse or virtual reality.
- zmmmmm 3y agoyes, it's a very interesting reset on the marketing for AR/VR. Quite interested to see how it plays out - it looks very boring to VR enthusiasts (really, you're making a big deal that I can look at a photo?!), but Apple is so good at this - they may very well be laser focused on what they really know will sell.
- kelseydh 3y agoIt might also reflect the fact that the device does not have the GPU computing power to deliver impressive gaming.
- polishdude20 3y agoExactly this. Even a 4090 can struggle with the next highest resolution display headset out there. This apple headset has like four times the pixel density or something? What GPU will be able to run this that isn't in some big PC tower on your floor?
- jayd16 3y agoHaving nothing to show isn't always the same as having a different direction.
- ChildOfChaos 3y agoThey had plenty to show though, stuff you wouldn't do in the meta quest, it made that look like a toy.
- bgribble 3y agoThe Simula One (https://simulavr.com https://simulavr.com) has been targeting similar productivity use cases for a while. I've been following it from a distance; I have to wear reading glasses for computer work now, and I would love to be able to focus on a virtual screen 2 meters or so away for coding etc. Whether I could stand wearing the headset all day is another question. The Simula folks think that there's a lower limit of about 30 pixels per degree for something to be useful as a low-eye-fatigue virtual desktop. Their device meets that threshold but really nothing else currently on the market does. I haven't seen PPD info for the Apple device yet but I am interested to see where it falls. The Simula is at a pretty similar price point ($2700 for the preorder, but it's not shipping yet and has a way to go before it's a reality).
- rektide 3y agoHaskell & Godot engine. Wildly interesting effort, wishing them well. Currently pretty sparse choices for open source XR computing spaces!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- londons_explore 3y agoSometimes new and soon to be very popular things have a seriously negative response here in HN initially. Think of Snapchat. I'm sure everyone in tech would have said 'nah, there is no market for a messaging app where all messages disappear after 15 seconds'. And yet only a year or so later it was sending more photos than any other platform. Apples product might be the same.
- graypegg 3y agoThat’s the usual refrain isn’t it? You can apply “remember how everyone said X wasn’t useful?” to almost anything. Honestly I think this will be pretty middle of the road. Apple Watch started off with a general market, and pivoted to health/fitness. I could totally see them readjusting as time goes on into whatever people start using it for. But it’ll be a niche. I think the “it’s for everyone” marketing from today is a way to gauge who really is their target market, not the market itself.
- joexner 3y agoBut is it advanced enough?
- 0xDEF 3y agoThis product will fail among Apple's traditional customer segment of high-income Westerners. High-income Westerners do not like to engage in activities that make them appear like mindless consumer zombies. In Denmark the highest income households have small cheap TVs they can hide away while low income households have big 4K TVs as the main attraction in their living room. The reason is that the former don't want to appear like passive mindless consumer zombies who watch TV. It is a very superficial opinion but wearing a VR/AR headset is literally the most 1984 consumer zombie thing you could possibly do.
- redbell 3y agoI'm truly wondering what M. Zuckerburg and the rest of the Quest team are thinking/saying/feeling seeing Apple entering this field with such an impressive device. Will they welcome such a player to give more credibility to the metaverse concept and the VR/AR headset market or they would panic because they may feel unable to compete, who knows?! But surely, the next months would interesting to sit and watch.
- cjmcqueen 3y agoTwo words, flight simulator.
- robotburrito 3y agoI wonder if we will be able to connect this to a PC for use with steam VR. All of the best things in VR happen in the PC realm where you don't have to jump through hoops to get your experiments out to others.
- annexrichmond 3y agoIt's hard to be excited about a device that will supposedly be released early next year yet had no live demos. How do we know that anything they announced will work as expected? I recall that with the original iPhone and Apple Watch, they even had live demos 6+ months ahead of their release.
- jzombie 3y agoCurious to hear anyone's experience playing non-VR-optimized games on a VR headset, as I have a lot of those types of games and am working on a WebRTC project that streams those types of games.
- wankerrific 3y agoWhat’s up with Apple touting this headset for remote work while they were one of the first to force people back to office. And now Facebook/meta too. Marketing hypocrisy.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- JakaJancar 3y ago$3500 is perceived as expensive, but a MacBook Pro can easily exceed that. Both have an M2, and while a MacBook has a display, more RAM, larger SSD, ... it's still a bunch of standard-ish components, while Vision Pro has a ton of really innovative never-seen-before hardware.
- magpi3 3y agoThis may be an age thing (it is probably an age thing), but the picture of a smiling woman with a VR headset on completely detached from reality looks dystopian as hell to me. And it is being advertised as something I would actually want.
- arnaudsm 3y agoImagine if you could plug this to your desktop dock and use it like a Mac Mini. It would be the ultimate multimodal workstation, and justify its price easily.
- zeroEscape 3y agoMy biggest concern with this is how easy it would be to steal. If I'm sitting in a train, someone could just yank it off my head and run away. That's $3,500 bucks down the drain. When using a phone for example, I don't really have to worry about it as long as I'm careful. I wear a shirt long enough to cover my pockets making it hard for a thief to lift up the shirt without me noticing and grab the phone in my pocket. When I use the phone, I keep it close to my body. If I were using the Vision Pro, I'd have a giant screen in front of my face. I wouldn't even see the thief coming. Maybe they could make a strap that you attach around your chin like a helmet and charge $1,000 bucks for it. Or perhaps screws to drill it into your skull.
- dandandan 3y agoGiven the Optic ID demo, I assume it's locked to authorized users only and not valuable outside of being a source of parts if stolen.
- zeroEscape 3y agoI'm sure an hour after it's released, a YouTube video will appear of someone demonstrating how to hack it.
- GravityLabs 3y agoAmazing day for Apple. What an incredible company and what incredible products. So excited to buy one of these next year. Thanks Apple!!!
- schaefer 3y agoI own a Varjo Aero. A comparably priced PC VR headset (after including graphic cards costs) that runs only under windows. I bought this setup for productivity – not gaming. I want to give a quick reaction to apple vision pro from that perspective. On the Aero, under windows I quickly came to learn that while the screens were clear and legible… The primary drawback was lack of software. Specifically there was no true 3d window manager. I couldn’t arrange 10 different programs spatially around me, like some cliché virtual hacker’s den. I couldn’t layout a pillar of source code that expanded hundereds of pages above and below my current focus… I was locked into looking at my 2d windows desktop, projected onto a plane, in a 3d virtual space. I wasn’t in 3d at all. I was still trapped in 2d. --- The window manager in apple vision is already far better than that! So, here’s my prediction. Just like when microsoft sat out the race to mobile (iphone v. android), they are decidedly on the sidelines here too. VR productivity seems to be almost exclusively apple’s for the taking. (yes, I’m aware that FB has some offerings in this space, but no way in hell do they get telemetry on my literal eyeballs). Just as products like the ipad haven’t exactly challenged microsoft windows, they have diminished it’s roll in people’s lives, apple vision seems to be a product with that kind of potential. – Last but not least, in the old days, I owned an ipad pro, which I supposedly bought for productivity. It had some weird limitation where I couldn’t run apps side by side in the way that I wanted. Eventually I gave the ipad away. Sooo… this time around apple doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt. I’ll pretty much have to demo one and personally confirm my top use cases before I’d consider buying.
- bloggie 3y agoA good 20 years ago there was a bit of software called SphereXP that arranged windows in a 3D sphere around you, I really liked it and I’m glad the tech is coming back!
- brundolf 3y agoWhat's so weird is that Microsoft had the Hololens years ago. It had a similar price, hand-based interaction, entirely self-contained, etc. I used one once, and it was astonishing. A totally magical AR experience Of course the FOV was narrow and the resolution was probably too small for virtual monitors, and I don't know what the battery life was like. But this was so long ago, and then they just... stopped. I can't remember the last time Microsoft announced anything in mixed-reality. Maybe that Minecraft demo? I'd love to be a fly on that wall
- fosk 3y agoThis looks fantastic. Now do it in a “contact lenses” format and it will change the world like the iPhone did.
- maybelsyrup 3y agoYou will get in the pod, you will eat the bugs
- mattbrewsbytes 3y agoWhat I can’t wait for is unbiased hands on reviews, hopefully from MKBHD or someone big enough they can just shell out the money for it and tell us how it actually is to operate.
- rickreynoldssf 3y agoThis is a proof of concept. It's going to take many more years to get it into a practical form factor for widespread adoption. In the meantime, early adopters including developers will define it. It's basically the same as the Macintosh. That essentially failed to gain mainstream adoption for 15 years. People called it an expensive toy. Same same but different.
- celeritascelery 3y agoI found it a little funny that they had a doctor on explaining about their new feature to keep the screen farther from your face to reduce eye strain and myopia, then proceed to release a device where is the screen is right in front of your eyes.
- zmmmmm 3y agothis represent a persistent and common misunderstanding of how VR optics works. VR is good for your eyes because the focal point is actually quite far away. Hence why you still need corrective lenses to use it if you are short sighted. It's a lot better than staring at a close up screen.
- anonymousiam 3y agoThe facetime video shows the faces of the people she's online with, but they will not be able to see her face while she's wearing the "spacial computer", unless it generates a fake avatar for them.
- thomk 3y agoWhen the iPad came out I thought to myself "Who needs a big iPhone? also, god what a dumb name, 'iPad'. Apple really missed the mark on that one." Welp, I was wrong then. I don't personally see myself using this but that doesn't mean it is not going to be successful. I'll just wait and see.
- Melatonic 3y agoSo the hardware looks amazing....... can we hook it to a PC so I can play some real VR games?!
- retrocryptid 3y ago[flagged]
- jspaetzel 3y agoWait for consumer reviews?
- tiedieconderoga 3y agoToo late for anyone to actually see this, but am I the only one who is terribly amused that Apple's silicon lineup now consists of A-series, R-series, and M-series chips, with the R-series handling realtime workloads? I feel like I've seen that naming convention somewhere before.
- wpwpwpw 3y agoand i was all excited thinking they would finally launch the powerbook g5...
- alongrinshpoon 3y agoSome quick thoughts: - Focus is on entertainment, remote work, collaboration, and utility, but their partnership with Unity might mean that gaming is part of the long-term strategy. Gaming is a top use case for VR with Meta devices, so Apple is focusing on AR use cases first. - Disney is aligned on Apple's AR vision with Disney, Marvel Studios, ESPN 3D content, and more available on launch. This will make more entertainment companies jump into AR/VR! - Can create a digital persona ("avatar") and make a virtual version of you with face tracking. Interesting move that can affect companies focusing on avatar creation. - No physical controller - you can use your eyes, hands, and voice. Really interesting approach, and leaves room for haptic companies to shine. - Comes with an M2 chip and a new R1 chip. Not sure how the R1 (or M2+R1) compares to the leading XR chip, Qualcomm Snapdragon XR2. - Spatial photos and videos are supported and can be created with the device. Can be competitive with Leia's Lume Pad 2. - Your Mac screen expands automatically to the VisionPro, which can be competition for companies building "AR laptops" or remote collaboration apps. - Price is $3499, definitely a "Pro" price, which probably means that a "non-Pro" version is in the works. - visionOS is Apple's OS for spatial computing. Interesting move that can affect companies building an OS for XR. - "Spatial Computing" is the notable messaging (vs. "Metaverse"). - Launching early next year. Let's go!
- deviation 3y ago> - Price is $3499, definitely a "Pro" price, which probably means that a "non-Pro" version is in the works. I would perhaps argue the opposite here. They list it on the official page as "starting" at $3499 which gives me the indication that there will be other, higher tiered models to choose from on release.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoThe new Mac Pro starts at $6,999 and can definitely go up from there. Does that mean there are higher tiered models to choose when it is released? I just configured one for $12,199. Ya, still a pro. Nope, I can’t afford it.
- anaganisk 3y agoColorful headbands, red version, battery pack etc?
- dang 3y agoAll: there are over 2700 comments in this thread - to get to them all, you need to click More at the bottom of each page, or a link like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36201593&p=2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36201593&p=2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36201593&p=3 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36201593&p=3 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36201593&p=4 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36201593&p=4 There are also a bunch of other threads: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Apple%20comments%3E10&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... Sorry that our server has been creaking today. Perf improvements are on the way (fingers crossed), but alas not today.
- cubefox 3y agoIt's unfortunate that apparently Apple won't include any controllers for this. Just with imprecise gesture controls VR gaming is out of the question. Which is a bummer, as the headset itself appears to be amazing and massive step forward in the tech. Instead they decided to use it for ... floating virtual screens. An iPhone & iPad replacement.
- drojas 3y agoI just want a portable gaming console with apple-level quality that can run Steam games. The VR thing is not very practical in my experience.
- kylixz 3y agoI am most intrigued by the use of the 6x Sony IMX418 which seems to be brilliant for daisy-chaining cameras over MIPI lines in such a small package even if the sensor is older. Anyone else have experience with these?
- dahwolf 3y agoI think one telling section of the presentation is the very speedy run-through of a few 3rd party apps for this platform. They all looked crappy, quick and superficial pseudo-3D versions of existing 2D apps. Which is a problem on all VR platforms: to deliver a truly engaging and convincing experience is extraordinarily hard and expensive. Even Disney couldn't deliver (yet). They showed a lot of imaginary scenarios that are not implemented and concluded with: Disney+ will be available. Which is just a 2D streaming app like any app. I'm not all negative. I think movie watching in this incredibly immersive way might be stunning. That would be a type of baseline "killer app" to fall back on. Assuming it works well, without it being tiring. There's the prospect of gaming, which is interesting as you pretty much use this device stationary. Those two solo experiences hold promise if the tech is as good as is suggested. I'm not sold on the productivity scenarios, because they aren't really re-imagined. If your work consists of zoom calls, messages and email, projecting those into the air doesn't really do much and slightly unsharp Excel still sucks. There's the usual amusement of hypothetical scenarios that only happen in Apple's imagination where everybody is balls deep into every iOS device, is permanently connected and instantly available on a whim. You decide to "relive" memories by projecting photos on your TV (most people never do or just watch it on their phone) and then spontaneously drag in grandma to have a shared live experience. That's not real world. Grandma is taking a nap, has none of these devices and wants you to come by and visit instead of fooling around with your toys. Which is the point I'll end with. I'm very much technically impressed and will readily admit that from a philosophical angle, I hope it will fail. I genuinely believe that technology that isolates you even further and gives you even less reason to interact with actual reality is the last thing we need in an already touchless society where mental health problems are skyrocketing. I do not want a world where dad has ski goggles to record the kids, the kids looking back at a digital version of his eyes. Dad should stop recording at all and just bloody engage.
- hank808 3y agohttps://venturebeat.com/mobile/heres-robert-scoble-showering-with-google-glass/ https://venturebeat.com/mobile/heres-robert-scoble-showering...
- _trackno5 3y agoMan, if this was available today I would be preordering right now. Just the the big monitor use case is enough for me. I live in a tiny apartment and don't have the space for multiple / large monitors or TV. If I could use this to play on my ps5 and work on my MacBook, it would be perfect.
- 6510 3y agoWhen the flat icons came up in the middle of the users vision I was impressed by how bad it looked.
- PetitPrince 3y agoI am curious about the recording functionality of this product. This tech demo from a few years ago [1](https://store.steampowered.com/app/771310/Welcome_to_Light_Fields/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/771310/Welcome_to_Light_F...) and a more recent one[2] were one of the most jaw-dropping experience I had in VR. It's basically VR photo and VR video; you can actually move you head as if you were here. [1] : https://store.steampowered.com/app/771310/Welcome_to_Light_Fields/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/771310/Welcome_to_Light_F... [2] : https://augmentedperception.github.io/deepviewvideo/ https://augmentedperception.github.io/deepviewvideo/ If they can manage to compute similar light field with their camera and depth sensor (and perhaps a sprinkle of NeRF ? [3]) within a reasonable time, they could have an effortless killer app. [3] : https://www.matthewtancik.com/nerf https://www.matthewtancik.com/nerf
- Klonoar 3y agoI'm gonna just be honest and say that I'm sure it'll be a hit - whether now or in a few years when they get the price down - but I just... don't care? I'm not entirely sure I want a world where people are wearing things on their head like this, it just feels dystopian and ripe for abuse.
- aprentic 3y agoApple is an interesting company. They didn't invent computers, mobile phones, mp3 players or tablets. Instead they tend to take products where the whole industry is essentially still in alpha, polish it to a mirror finish and then show the world how those products will make their personal lives better. Computers don't just have to be for big companies running accounting software; they can unlock the creative potential of writers and artists. Mobile phone aren't just for drug dealers and business executives; they let people share their lives with their friends. There were a few misses too. The Magic Mouse looked sleek but was mostly annoying and didn't really do anything that other mice didn't already do better. I'm afraid this headset falls in the same category. This seems to have marginal improvements over the HTC Vive I bought 6 years ago. The resolution is better, it looks lighter and less bulky. It also gives you pass through mode for an AR experience vs just a VR experience. It looks like a good headset. That's just not enough. Not only does it fail to meet the high innovation standards that we've come to expect from Apple, it fails to meet the standards that we already expect from AR. Unlike with all the previous hardware innovations, we already know what we want from AR. Everyone who has played modern video games is already used to various forms of HUDs and we've seen many iterations of what works well and what doesn't. When I put on an AR headset I want all the things I've seen in video games. I want name indicators. I want automatic highlighting of relevant objects. I want to replace my map with floating directional indicators. I want to see my health stats floating off to the side. I want to be able to make all my friends wear silly hats. I want a virtual cat following me around.
- drones 3y agoI really hate the overall form factor of these things. The future is more and more powerful devices in smaller and smaller tech. Sleek and subtle, not clunky and ostentatious. I can't believe this is the same society that 10 years ago saw the google glass as a conceptual failure. At most with the google glass you looked a bit like a dork, but with the vision pros you look like a gormless twat. Wearing a VR headset in public is like wearing a big kick me sign telling to the world "I am suggestible and easy to part with my money, please mug me". A VR headset in private is useless because I already have a desktop at home that can o what it does 10x better (and doesn't cost $3500).
- hn_throwawa_100 3y agoThis is an unpopular take among the HN crowd, but I haven't seen it posted yet so here it is: this product will either be a huge hit, or it will be a massive failure, or somewhere in between.
- Invictus0 3y agoWeren't any of you made fun of as a kid for wearing glasses? This is 10x worse.
- treprinum 3y agoNot a single AR functionality was demoed; all that was shown was a 2D overlay on top of real-world view. No 3D computer vision segmenting objects on the screen, no placing 3D objects on real objects etc. It felt less capable than Hololens a few years back.
- rektide 3y agoExtra stunning because iOS already has some quite fine AR capabilities. This was such a freakish ommission. At my most charitable, maybe they didn't want to take the risk. They don't know what they would do with those capabilities. AR isn't their thing, as a platform provider. They need developers to go build stuff. By not showing anything, they emphasize what they control, and they show only things they have power over. In short, the omission keeps the narrative from getting out ahead of the horse.
- nlitened 3y agoWhat’s the use case for placing 3D objects on real objects?
- treprinum 3y agoFor example, tutorial on how to fix/replace things, how do things work internally, playing chess, demo surgery etc.
- numpad0 3y agoThe focus on Hololens style air tap seemed like an expectation adjustment to me, that it's more or less AppleLens.
- zmmmmm 3y agoYes. The other standout was no shared space AR. Meta is big into this with shared anchors. They specifically spell out how they don't want it to be isolating, but every shot of someone using it to do things like watch movies or sports they are entirely by themselves in the experience. It feels like something went seriously wrong with some piece of this and they yanked a large segment of the AR stuff out. I don't believe they didn't try. I wonder what the story is.
- garrickvanburen 3y agoNo one else in the FaceTime calls was wearing one! How does that work?
- cyode 3y agoThey explain at 1:52:25 of the keynote. Callers without Vision Pro show up on calls like normal. Vision Pro wearers are portrayed by a 3D representation of them wihtout the headset on. > This was one of the most difficult challenges we faced in building Apple Vision Pro. There's no video conferencing camera looking at you, and even if there were, you're wearing something over your eyes. Using our most advanced ML techniques, we created a novel solution. > After a quick enrollment process using the front sensors on Vision Pro, the system uses an advanced encoder-decoder neural network, to create your digital Persona. This network was trained on a diverse group of thousands of individuals. It delivers a natural representation which dynamically mathces your facial and hand movement. With your Persona, you can communicate with your a billion FaceTime-capable devices. When viewed by someone in another Vision Pro, your Persona has volume and depth not possible in traditional video.
- etempleton 3y agoThis product feels like Tim Cook trying to a will a product into market to leave a lasting impact and legacy. My gut reaction is it will have the opposite effect. I have a lot of respect for Tim Cook for being the CEO after Steve and keeping the company moving forward and operating smoothly. This feels like hubris.
- tgtweak 3y agoDon't underestimate Apples ability to make a successful product where many others have tried and failed before. This could be the spark that is needed to spur on AR/VR in a big way. At $3500 it's definitely out there.
- Balladeer 3y agoI'm cautiously optimistic here. I have a very specific idea that the Vision Pro might make real. There's a great urban park nearby and I so want to just...walk while I work. Not on a treadmill and not 'to get away from my work'. Just: walk on a safe road / trail and do my computer work at the same time. I've been exploring the consumer AR space --- I have a Viture One and have been eyeing the Xreal Air, but neither seems to solve the problem of "keep the virtual screen stable while I walk through real space". If the Vision Pro can do that for several hours at a time, my interest in getting one will skyrocket. (The whole 'how do you type while walking' issue is a separate problem, but one I feel is far more solvable than the virtual screen stability issue).
- larodi 3y agowell it may actually be appealing for winter sports, snowboarders and skiers can appreciate it. but at this pricetag, maybe 5 years later. lets hope we would not have to project the snow bythen...
- RhysU 3y agoThis product release marks the beginning of the Spacer/Settler divide.
- fumeux_fume 3y agoLol, not even Apple can make VR not seem stupid AF
- Aeolun 3y agoWhy would I spend $3500 on a device that seems to essentially have the same specs and abilities as the Quest 2 (with an unsightly battery pack to boot)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- throwaway743 3y agoCan this be worn comfortably by people who wear glasses?
- rektide 3y agoThere are circular magnetically attached lens inserts. Kind of hard to get started but looks like it could have really good optical performance, much more so than the glasses-capable devices we have today. It will be very interesting to see how Apple Stores manage to demo these things. A case full of inserts?
- rallyforthesun 3y agoshort answer, no you cant wear your glasses, BUT you can order prescription lenses from zeiss and put them in.
- winstonprivacy 3y agoUh, no thanks.
- eliseumds 3y agoSo unimpressive. The demos were terrible. Who would actually use it the way it was presented?
- rektide 3y agoThe demos were verryyy minimal. I think one of the biggest risks is overselling the product, is creating expectations they can't live up to. They probably could have gotten some AR iOS apps ported & being neat. But are those things people would really use day in day out? Do they set the right expectation, or are they wow & hype? Apple showed the intended mainline usecases: boring regular everyday stuff. Watching videos, browsing the web. And notably all experiences they & not app devs are in tight tight control over. So, setting realistic expectations. And remaining in absolute control of the experience.
- coolandsmartrr 3y ago> The demos were verryyy minimal. Certainly not as dramatic as Steve Jobs using an actual device on stage and prank-calling Starbucks.
- ehnto 3y agoThe marketing makes it sound like Apple invented all of this, but as usual they have actually just packaged it well. Very unfair to the entire industry that actually got the tech to where it is today. You know people will eat it up as well, and just like the iPhone people will tell us that Apple invented VR/AR all on their lonesome. The iPhone was a great leap though, this headset is not. It is not even current gen tech, the OS is going to be the novel part of it and I look forward to seeing the UX innovations they can pull off. Good product in general, just disingenuous marketing.
- mavu 3y agoSpatial computer. Really Apple? Is anyone left in that company leadership who is not a bad Jobs cosplayer?
- dathinab 3y ago> the world’s first spatial operating system, no, why do they always reinvent terms and claim they are the first for things they clearly where not the first
- jrmyphlmn 3y agoa very expensive television
- metadat 3y ago@dang congrats on reaching the 66999! https://ibb.co/bQGgPtF https://ibb.co/bQGgPtF
- royaltheartist 3y agoThis strikes me as Google Glass in the form factor of SCUBA goggles
- coldtea 3y ago[flagged]
- armini 3y agoFaceTime on Apple Vision Pro makes it easy to connect and collaborate. It's just a shame that you can't see their face while wearing apple-vision.
- jcrash 3y agoYou literally can though, did you watch the presentation?
- coolandsmartrr 3y agoApple Vision synthesizes a model of your face during Facetime.
- jakeinspace 3y agoPersonally, I can’t imagine using VR/AR headsets for development because of eventual eye strain and the sweatiness factor. But I’m willing to entertain that there are specific dev activities that could benefit from the enhanced immersion. Maybe a debugger that’s built from the ground up to support gestures and provide all of my breakpoints, watchpoints, stack frames, variables, etc in a visually intuitive AR display. That could be amazing, even a killer app, but would be ridiculously difficult I think to get right. How cool would it be to single step through a function with a snap of the fingers, wave downward to jump to the return, and then jump over to an adjacent thread with a glance to the left?
- casey2 3y agoApple is a full stack trillion-dollar company, they should be inventing many (1000+) multi-million-dollar full VR systems. Just that will make them the world's first quadrillion-dollar company, even if VR never takes off.
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- daemond 3y agoI am curious if wearing this device for a long time will cause dizziness.
- mgh2 3y agoWhy is it called Vision Pro instead of just Vision? I predict they will release a lower end version for average consumers so that it can couple with it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_skimming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_skimming
- fomine3 3y agoA missed pros for HMD is that it's very energy efficient. 85 inch TV is quite power hungry while Vision Pro might consume power similar to an iPad Pro.
- sour-taste 3y agoIs this the first really big thing to come out under Tim Cook? I guess the homepod and apple watch also came out under him? Still those feel like relatively minor things that were never going to revolutionize the world. The way they're trying to sell this they really think it will. There's no avoiding the Jobs comparisons. My guess is this is just too expensive for people to actually use in any large numbers, but maybe there will be cheaper versions down the line.
- nlitened 3y agoAirPods have been big, and I love them tbh
- mcoliver 3y agoApple is incredible at a lot of things and no doubt this is impressive. Apple's entire lineup is the best version of things people already have and use. A computer, a laptop, a screen, a phone, a watch, headphones, speakers. The tablet was new but made sense as a replacement for books/newspaper/laptop. I have been in the vr space since the dk1 and used a bunch of headsets in both consumer and professional settings. It is magical if not a bit gimmicky...in short bursts. It can do wondrous things like give you a sense of scale or transport you to another environment. But it's not an extension for or replacement of the real world. The use case is gaming, media consumption on mass transit, and niche professional use cases (eg how to do heart surgery, or fix an engine, or location scout a movie) where 3d visualization adds meaningful context to the process. It's not billions of people. Or rather if it is, then we are all plugged into ready player one and I think that would be a sad outcome for our species. Maybe we are already headed that way with the amount of screen time everyone is putting in these days. Time to log off and go for a run.
- rifty 3y agoPersonally, face emulation isn't there yet for video calls and face pass through is a bit odd giving off a dead eyes stare look. Their focus on a portable interface, but stationary and passive spatial entertainment experiences is the right call for where we are with battery capability and weight. It is also what can be generally 'useful' to the broad market class Apple likes to target. Hopefully, the field of view experience is really as good as it appears. I think they nailed the execution here and definitively defined the vision of these devices going forward.
- trogdor 3y agoI hate that Apple has joined the vaporware trend. It started with the Mac Studio, which was announced before it could be purchased. Now we have another device announced… that will be available for purchase next year.
- ryeguy_24 3y agoWill it have the Terminal app so I can code like Minority Report?
- alden5 3y agoI fear they'll position it just like they have the ipad, primarily focused towards entertainment with a super locked down environment that's noticeably worse than a mac, if it ends up that way it'll be a deal breaker for me although we'll have to see, they did convince me to buy an ipad for nothing but procreate lol
- tempnow987 3y agoDoes anyone track the apple criticism for the ipod, the iphone, the watch etc etc? Apple takes some risks, not everyone is fan, it costs a lot, but they have the money to burn, I don't get why they aren't allowed to try this stuff out.
- klik99 3y agoAs a developer I sure would like to make product for people who spend that much, much like I did in early days of iPhone. Crazy expensive for regular consumers sure, but very attractive for conspicuous consumers and developers who want to laser target only conspicuous consumers. Exciting stuff
- dmitshur 3y agoDid anyone catch if they said anything about WebXR being available on it? Not seeing it so far, but hopefully eventually…
- alexbock 3y agoThe single most important and most revealing aspect of this announcement is Apple's framing of the promotional images showing the face display on the front of the headset. I think the large R&D investments tech companies are making into VR/AR headsets are ultimately centered on the idea that years in the future, an affordable, comfortable, and socially acceptable headset for all-day wear in daily life could hypothetically replace smartphones, tablets, laptops, and screens. If a future daily wear headset as a phone/computer replacement reached a critical mass of adoption, then control of the platform will provide the owner with a huge profit source in selling virtual goods that can be "worn" or "placed" in the real world and are seen equally by any other person wearing a headset. I won't speculate on exactly what would be popular, but it is conceivable that this could include things like: buying virtual wall posters of licensed characters, virtual landscaping objects placed outside a house, filters that virtually "repaint" the exterior or interior of a house, or personal adornments like virtual clothing or appearance modifiers. That is to say, a digital layer of adjustment on top of the real world where everyone wearing a headset is automatically shown the virtual objects or adjustments that anyone else has made (within the scope of the latter's own appearance and owned spaces - random members of the public could not place publicly visible digital objects in the middle of a NYC street). Note that this virtual economy is a profit motive for a company to build AR, but not the selling point for a headset adopter. Apple is not trying to sell this headset to consumers for $3500. They're showing off future hardware that they believe represents the bare minimum for what average people might be willing to wear regularly, with the expectation that they will be able to produce essentially this same unit and sell it for perhaps a third of the current price in several years. The way it's presented is also an early form of reputation management for the product space trying to influence public perception of how someone wearing a headset is viewed by others around them. Standard see-through AR headset designs face fundamental implementation limits with the display technology that generally result in accepting one of two unacceptable limitations: a display that projects an image over the real world but cannot render black or otherwise draw anything darker than the scene behind it, or a liquid crystal light modulator with a polarizer that permanently makes the glass tinted dark like sunglasses even indoors. Apple is instead making a VR headset that is completely enclosed, displaying the world through pass-through cameras and drawing the wearer's eyes on a front display for everyone else to see. The front lenticular OLED shows how Apple is approaching the social aspect of trying to market the acceptability of wearing a headset in the company of other people. In the long term, establishing a virtual economy for digital world overlays is fundamentally dependent on the social acceptance of wearing an AR device regularly. This announcement seems to be trying to thread that needle in advance of when this technology could eventually be priced and sold as a consumer product. I.e. establish an image of an Apple headset positioned without the kind of negative associations Google Glass quickly garnered. I have no idea whether AR will succeed in replacing smartphones years from now or fade into obscurity, but what I find interesting about this announcement is that it makes a timeline where AR does take off at least appear conceivable. They've only taken a first and early step into trying to make it happen, but they haven't made a fatal mistake yet.
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- nuker 3y agoFacetime: "Users wearing Vision Pro during a FaceTime call are reflected as a Persona — a digital representation of themselves created using Apple’s most advanced machine learning techniques — which reflects face and hand movements in real time. " I want to see it. Can it make me pretty?
- ftxbro 3y agoOnce it's socially expected to wear these in certain settings, they will start putting ads in them.
- parentheses 3y agoOne of my curiosities is "how will they design the buying experience?" It's something that goes on your face and over your eyes. You breathe into it and may get all your dead skin and oils all over it. I don't want to try the floor model. That or I'll come in first thing so I can at least ensure it's aired out for a full night :P
- andsoitis 3y ago"Over 5,000 patents!"
- andsoitis 3y agoParent interacting with small child while wearing the headset is positively and grossly disgusting.
- snowcrash123 3y ago[dead]
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- Acrobatic_Road 3y agoA 3000 dollar novelty trick that I couldn't stand to wear for more than 30 minutes. Big no on this.
- wly_cdgr 3y agoThis thing is so boring and funny
- zwaps 3y agoBut there are virtually no games on Mac. They recommed on their very website to play "Apple Arcade" games. Seriously?
- soft_dough 3y agoDude, college lectures. Having a notepad running to take notes in, have the recording going, be able to look back at the recording and the notes. That would be sick.
- ddingus 3y agoI think wearing that thing will be a sweaty experience. (Because I sweat) That rules it right out. Will be interesting to see whether Apple has what it takes to get people on board.
- GnarlyWhale 3y agoLocking the away the eye data is a big miss for me. With the hololens we were able to get interesting visual confirmation that what you were looking at was indeed focused prior to selecting objects using an air tap. This also limits enterprise use cases quite substantially. I hope in the future they move to a permission system where users can opt-in to their eye data (literally just the pointer location) being available for specific apps.
- dainiusse 3y agoI still don't see myself wearing this thing more than a few minutes on my head. However I am open to where it moves in the future. The realistic (and convenient) way would be to get to simple glasses concept, however technology is behind so far
- dchftcs 3y agoIt looks like the most compelling differentiator is the AR and pass-through experience. I wouldn't say it's a game changer for VR, but it does sweeten the deal. But if there is ever a perfect AR experience for desk work, if it does seriously allow me to have only a keyboard and a mouse on my work desk, without compromising my productivity like using a single screen laptop does, it could save me some real estate cost in the long run that would be well worth the price - I'd be able to work better in a smaller room or at the dining table.
- tmsh 3y agoNeed to imagine more in terms of the possibilities before dismissing it. Were all of the promises of mobile fully realized? No, but about 60% were (uber, increased mobility, notifications, shopping, news, mail, 80% of use cases previously handled by desktop only, etc.). Consider the use cases of full 3d immersion at crisp, high resolution (not seen until now). If 60% of them are realized we won't want to go back to 2d. These use cases could include: smart-home monitoring but in a doll-house-sized model of your actual house. Infrastructure (AWS/Azure/GCP) monitoring but in a 3d-architecture diagram that you can inspect at a high level. Imagine how much more infrastructure you can manage (similar to Star-Wars-esque zooming in and out of planets). If even 60% of that is realized 2d will never feel the same. And we will evolve use 3d for any type of semi-complex user interface with the need to abstract and still dive deep into data. The display gives instantly 2-3x horizontal v. vertical resolution. That's insane. But also it gives let's say 2-3x depth resolution. Obviously you can't see more things if you have windows in front of you stacked (the depth pixels aren't as valuable as the x and y plane). But they're still quite valuable and allow for much better management of what's in front of you. And much better modeling of real-world objects; they're a much richer model of the world -- and all software is a model of the world in some ways. They "re-charge" the 2-3x horizontal and vertical resolution and in total give something like a 5x resolution. That approaching an order of magnitude more resolution. If anything is limited by not being able to see enough on the screen, you now have approaching an order of magnitude more space. That has the power to revolutionize what we can manage and manipulate in terms of analyzing and building things. If you had a monitor/new paradigm that's 5x resolution that you can actually fully use, could you do parts of your job 2x more quickly? Could do you 3x more work in some areas? Can you build unimaginable things that previously with less bandwidth couldn't really be mustered up (e.g., imagine the first extremely small resolution Macintosh SE). That's the potential power.
- nprateem 3y agoWell I'm going to buy Apple today. This is the display. Next they'll release a tiny, screenless computer that'll work with it (i think they have one already?). Then you'll be able to dump the heavy laptop for basically just a box that sits in your bag/a drawer and a virtual/small keyboard.
- misterflibble 3y agoDoes it play Half-Life: Alyx? :-D
- benreesman 3y agoIf anyone can pull this off it’s Tim Cook: make no mistake, you could live a thousand years and never see a nuts and bolts logistics and go-to-market maestro like him. With that said, as others have commented, the iPhone and iPad and maybe the watch are just the form factors that make sense. Science fiction from Star Trek to the Expanse has…iPads. I appreciate that the investment community has been waiting for a new iPhone like the USSR was waiting for a second front, but when Carmack says the batteries don’t work for the graphics? Yeah, I’m wait and see.
- shams93 3y agoSo why are they not pursuing holographic projection? https://news.mit.edu/2021/3d-holograms-vr-0310 https://news.mit.edu/2021/3d-holograms-vr-0310
- clarge1120 3y agoUntil it works as well with Windows, no soup for me.
- HellDunkel 3y agoThey managed to demo an AR device without showing anything 3D.
- coolandsmartrr 3y agoIt suggests that most of the rich media (text/image/video) we interact with have yet to find a compelling application to be represented in 3D.
- HellDunkel 3y agoI don‘t think there is even a need to translate/represent most of that (text/image/video) to 3d. VR was not invented for that purpose but rather to „present“ 3d media in 3d space. So the ultima ratio now is a device which is a basically a private monitor? While great for spacially confined waiting situations this falls short with the original dream.
- nntwozz 3y agoWhat are the health implications of watching a screen this close for many hours every day?
- hydroreadsstuff 3y agoWhy did they make the front out of glas? This weigh a lot more than plastic (or aluminium if transparency is not needed), and is probably wuite expensive, too.
- amy_seqmedia 3y agoI for one am actually excited for this. (Price tag is admittedly still high.) When I look at a piece of technology I want to know what problem is it solving. And for me it will solve the biggest one: I want to work on the couch while next to my partner. My current solution involves bringing an extra monitor down and putting it on the coffee table. Beyond that, the massive increase in screen real estate will be great for working on highly visual projects like Final Cut or Ableton.
- account_created 3y agoI've been thinking about this for 12 hours. This product is going to change everything (sales going to skyrocket). The only problem I see if how Apple projected it in the entire demo. They are projecting this to be like a mobile phone which will always be the part of day-to-day activity, but in reality this is not. This is a single person device which will be only used when no one is around and mostly for work. Nothing else. You can't expect someone to have this on his head all the time for all the thing.
- jrflowers 3y agoI’ll believe that this is groundbreaking when I hear tons of stories about folks using it to watch porn.
- lelag 3y agoYou are on your death bed surrounded by your children. You: Help me take this mask off. Son: But you’ll die. You: Nothing can stop that now. Just for once, let me look on you with my own eyes.
- GenericDev 3y agoI mean... It's not. Magic Leap[1] did it years ahead of them, and in my opinion better. I mean - they're doing pass-through AR which is silly. There's all this work being done to emulate people and faces when they could just build lenses. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills watch everyone get so hyped over this, because there's literally better devices already out on the mark. This is effectively a $3500 Oculus device. Like what the heck? I know it's just because Apple made it, but still. This is pretty weird to watch the reaction. [1]https://www.magicleap.com https://www.magicleap.com
- pram 3y agoIt's not... what? It's not "Apple's first spatial computer"? Did Apple have one before this? Did you even read the title before you typed out your crybaby "less space than a nomad" post lol
- somedude895 3y agoApple presentations have kind of started to give me the creeps. They're speaking is so soothing and the production so polished, it's just kind of off-putting, like an AI generated video telling you "everything's gonna be alright."
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- mise_en_place 3y agoI could be wrong but I just don’t see it. As a mantle piece and curiosity it’s interesting, but real world use cases are far and few between, especially at this pricing point.
- solarized 3y agoI'm terribly sorry. Even the frickin' lightweight gadgets like Google Glass totally bombed a few years back. Like, why the heck did we have to learn the hard way? - RIP steve jobs. RIP Jony Ive.
- skc 3y agoI like that Apple are being so ambitious. They are literally the ONLY company that could possibly make this work as they make and control the stack from top to bottom. That said, it's still a very tough sell. I don't think having a physical conversation with someone wearing this thing will ever really catch on, it's still taboo to this day to be looking at your phone when someone is talking to you after all. But if the price comes down I can see this being very successful with the ever growing population of loners out there.
- Dave3of5 3y ago3500 hahahahahhahahaha hahahahahhahahaha hahahahhahahaha hahahahahaha hahaha ha
- lawrenceyan 3y agoZuckerberg has the vision/drive to make VR headsets real with the Quest. Don't underestimate the underdog. Apple doesn't have anyone like that on their side.
- usrbinbash 3y agoYeah, 3,500$ for a device that offers ... what killer app exactly? That I can see floating screens? That I can use a bluetooth keyboard while working on those screens? Newsflash: I am looking at screens right now. I am using a keyboard right now. And I can do that for much longer than 2 hours, and don't have to wear a ski mask to do so. And my coworkers can see my eyes. And I can sip coffee and eat my breakfast easily. And the entire setup I am using for this, plus the luxurious chair I am sitting on, plus the aforementioned coffee and breakfast, cost less than that. Actually, I'm pretty sure the desk would still fit into the budget. And it's a large desk.
- tibbydudeza 3y agoReminds me of a 3D TV - glasses did not work then - it will be a niche product. Now if Neuralink actually figures out how things work and develop a inducer type of headband technology without requiring invasive surgery then it will be the killer product.
- sameehsn 3y agoCan't read and argue with all 2300+ comments but I am pretty sure this is best we can get so far in the market and over the next 5 years - it will be improved significantly. Zuck can be the competitor in some way but Apple has this moat so it's very difficult to win.
- nomoveno 3y agoI think what would be revolutionary if this this tool could be used for blind people or for people with little sight. It seems a tool for those that can't move.
- sentientmachin3 3y agoyet another bs the world did not need, alongside foldable phones.
- hinell 3y agoPure trash. Sorry for telling you. There are all sorts of jokes around it now. Nobody wanted to weark Google's glasses back then, won't do it now either.
- dalbasal 3y ago”No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.” - Slashdot's famous 2001 dismissal of ipod. Apple has a history of high prices, and a history of making it work by pioneering forms and user interface paradigms . The desktop GUI everyone now knows as "computers." Laptops. Click wheel ipods, and their multi-device paradigm. All-screen smartphones. There's no guarantee of success, but VR is exactly the kind of problem where Apple has a legacy of releasing breakthrough products. Going with apple's history... and 2000 skeptical comments... it all comes down to content. I'm also skeptical about using a heads up display for 2D stuff... like watching regular movies or using a virtual, 2D monitor. That said who knows. There are things that I would like to see. VR films could be amazing. Design software could be amazing. Simulators. Regardless of what content, all content faces user base issues. Can't make a $100m Star Wars film for a <1m person audience. The $3500 price tag might restrict the number of users, and make profitable content difficult. OTOH, pushing for the best device possible might make new kinds of content work.
- goosedragons 3y agoMaybe. But the iPod was also not 10x the price of the Nomad. The iPod also had essentially the same feature set. Here the Vision Pro is undoubtedly better in ways like the screen but also seems to be lacking support for VR controllers. Right now VR gaming is pretty much the main reason VR exists. Perhaps Apple will change that but something like Beat Saber is a pretty great demo for VR. And without VR controllers more complicated titles like RE8 VR are not going to offer the same experience as other platforms like PS VR2.
- scentoni 3y agoI’d rather reduce the weight on my face by combining the computer with the external battery.
- holoduke 3y agoWho is gonna pay 3500 for a pair of 90s ski goggles. I have never seen an ugly device from Apple. This is the first one.
- sanitycheck 3y agoImage search "toilet seat ibook" if you'd like to see another.
- callamdelaney 3y agoIt's a VR headset, not a spatial computer.
- globular-toast 3y agoIs anyone able to watch Apple marketing without cringing or feeling uncomfortable? Part of it is the actors' exaggerated enthusiasm and practising what they've learnt at some bullshit, TED-style, influential speaking bootcamp. But it also makes me feel defensive. Like when a religious nutjob or cult leader tries to tell me the "good news" or something. I get the very same feeling as I have done on the few occasions I've attended church.
- RektBoy 3y agoImagine being so dense to drop $3,500 on yet another Golden Cage from Apple.
- RNAlfons 3y agoHow is this thing STILL on top here?
- nikolahorvat 3y agoAs a runner and a tech enthusiast, the prospect of incorporating Apple's new gadget into my running routine piques my attention.
- quantamental 3y agoThe goggle form is at the crux of everyone's criticisms and uncertainties. Its actual features and value propositions are, for the most part, welcomed. If this product were instead in the form of contact lenses, I'm confident that this would be viewed much more favorably. The psychological friction of appearing disconnected from the world would suddenly dissipate. Capturing a video of your child blowing out the candles on their birthday cake would seem much less dystopian. Given Apple's ecosystem, influence, and vast wealth, I would be surprised if their venture into this domain ended in failure.
- fennecfoxy 3y agoOther companies have been developing VR along with gamers and whatnot for a long while now, especially with the explosion that Vive/VRChat enabled, etc. As per usual Apple hops on the bandwagon late, doesn't contribute much to any new tech/software developments, creates a locked down platform with a stupid special name "spatial" "retina" etc. The VR desktop already exists. There's an entire ecosystem already, and like other ecosystems certain things don't exist or aren't used at the moment because there's no good reason to, or they lack finesse. People don't use virtual desktops because it's annoying to wear a VR headset and interaction with virtual objects isn't as fine-tuned. We're not waiting for Apple for this, we're waiting for an extremely lightweight, comfortable pair of glasses for VR and some gloves or other interaction device that makes it natural and easy and then we'll see the virtual desktop come to light. Apple has solved none of these problems. But omg it has an Apple logo on it. "a revolutionary spatial computer" absolute BS, nothing revolutionary about it. "“Today marks the beginning of a new era for computing,” said Tim Cook, Apple’s CEO. “Just as the Mac introduced us to personal computing, and iPhone introduced us to mobile computing, Apple Vision Pro introduces us to spatial computing." BS, VR/AR has been around for a long time now, with many offerings that Apple's doesn't really differ from. Tbh I give up. Their entire press release if full of the regular Apple crap "innovative" "most advanced" "best materials" bla bla bla, I can't believe people eat this stuff up. I'm not even working in the VR/AR space & it irks me, can't imagine how people who've been hard at work progressing a tech only to have charlatan Apple step in must feel.
- fennecfoxy 3y agoAnd omg, their demo is a "gallery app"...and for their AR/VR showcase, with their "spatial computing" "visionOS" their galley example is a FLAT, 2D APP! No virtual object photo album, no virtual folder/box of photos that you can reach into. No holding a virtual polaroid "in your hand" as you move it back and forth to look at it and then place it on a surface where it stays and is remember that it's there for your next session. No being able to decorate your virtual/AR space by placing an art frame up onto the wall and having it stay there. No demo of 3d (multiple angles reconstruct 3d scene)/360* footage being played "around" the viewer. No demo of any proper virtual objects at all, hell nothing in 3d or anything with any real depth beyond 2d planes in the whole thing.
- mdtrooper 3y agoWell, Apple is doing the same old time, because there is one before it, https://simulavr.com/ https://simulavr.com/ .
- wslh 3y agoI am not seeing the pricing comparison with HoloLens 2 pricing [1]: $ 3,500, $ 4,950, $ 5,199. [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/buy https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/hololens/buy
- kumarvvr 3y agoI wonder if this can correct vision for cross eyed people.
- drexlspivey 3y agoThere is a calibration step where it highlights UI elements and you have to look at it so I’m guessing yes
- foxbyte 3y agoImpressive, but the price point seems steep. Curious to see if its unique features will justify the cost.
- ragazzina 3y agoSince we are leaving comments for the future, let me leave my prediction. In a couple of years, a new version will come out, with no screen on front, maybe just called Apple Vision, with no M2 on it, just the spatial chip, and no screen on the front. It will need to be tethered to your M2 Mac or iPad, but with no processor and no screen it will cost much less, it will look like a bargain ($999 or $1500) and it will be a huge success. This way, the version with the eyes will differentiate Pro users from normal users, and in time it will be seen around less and less: by that time, people will be used to wearing a ski mask in public.
- amai 3y agoI need to wear glasses. Can I still use it?
- alexhayes 3y agoLooking forward to the R2 chip and then pairing that with the D2.
- tap-snap-or-nap 3y agoTwo possible use cases for me would be integration with drones, RC vehicles and other upcoming robotics and live sports and entertainment.
- anentropic 3y ago> Apple Vision Pro can transform any space into a personal movie theater with a screen that feels 100 feet wide ... Users can watch movies and TV shows > Apple Vision Pro is designed to sustain high-performance workloads and is capable of running for two hours on a single charge. So... you can watch a movie on a virtual 100 ft screen, but only when plugged in else you have to take a break to recharge it partway through
- jrcplus 3y agoI worked at Apple during most of the golden Steve Jobs era. Back in the day, Apple was a fraction of its size, but Apple almost singlehandedly set the agenda for the computer industry. It's fascinating and sad to see Apple now chasing after industry trends, and at the same time being too big and heavy to pivot after the AR/VR/XR winds changed. I can believe Apple Vision Pro will actually sell due to the novelty factor, and then Apple will get quiet about it. It'll take a few years it to find a niche, just like what happened with Apple Watch. shrug With iPod and iPhone, Steve clearly loved music and hated the MP3 players and feature phones of the day. With Apple Watch, Jony was into luxury watches and fashion, and Tim is a fitness buff. Does anyone at Apple actually love VR goggles? Why the hell are they doing this, besides flexing their "only Apple can" muscles and, more probably, because the bean counters running Apple predict it will be a $B market? As a friend put it: Apple has become a parody of itself.
- jsdeveloper 3y agoWhy weren't the CEO and the presenters were wearing it, if its so easy and natural to switch between immersive and real world? I am not impressed so far. Yeah you have better display, but its not something a trend setter AR/VR headset would have looked like.
- clovey 3y ago[flagged]
- penjelly 3y agocrazy that people bash VR viability until apple releases a 2.5k machine they haven't even tried yet
- agentgumshoe 3y agoI just love how people start making up reasons why "this time it'll probably work" because Apple is doing it. They've certainly got a devoted flock. I'm not anti Apple, they make some great hardware, but it just amazes me how much the brand convinces people all by itself.
- agentgumshoe 3y agoI'm certainly going to laugh at anyone I see wearing one not in front of a gaming rig.
- jayd16 3y agoThey'll be in front of macs, not gaming rigs.
- agentgumshoe 3y agoThen it will be laughter
- finikytou 3y agoI keep reading pricepoint is high. it has a M2 and 4k screens... many people spend that much for those.
- pharmakom 3y agoJesus wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer!
- Dowwie 3y agoTake the money you were going to spend on this first-generation technology and use it to pay for your parents to go on a holiday
- briandear 3y agoIt’s like people read about Vision Pro, ignore the demonstrations in the Keynote presentation, and then comment and criticize as if this was an Occulus. These comments are peak Hacker News. Practically “why would anyone ever want a touchscreen on a phone.” Or “where’s the stylus?” Or “You can make your own Dropbox in just a few hours.” The intense criticism of a device nobody has even seen in person is astounding. Some guy that codes CRM software complaining that Apple isn’t innovative enough. Or some other person that makes one of hundreds of podcast apps is lamenting that nobody needs Vision Pro. And those from third world countries are whining about how expensive it is. And the Marxists are going on about rich CEOs. Vision Pro apparently has something for everyone to hate — which is why is clearly a world-changing product. However very few are actually discussing the world changing possibility that Vision Pro is finally going to unlock. People laughed at the 3D birthday party demo.. but can you imagine having conversations with your grandparents and recording those like you are actually there? Or 3D immersive journalism that lets a single reporter take you into the battle, protest, or history making event? What about an app that can take you inside of 1942 Paris.. you walk along down the streets and see it as if you were in occupied France. Imagine the Pokémon-Go level of immersive real world gaming that is unlocked. Imagine the possibilities for rural and remote medical care delivery. VR required lots of specialized programming — Vision Pro can make everyone a creator. This isn’t the f’ing “Metaverse” — this is real life at a whole different level of possibility. Many of you folks are talking about the boring, whining, pessimistic view of Vision Pro. Where is the optimism? The imagination? What innovation will this inspire? Possibilities are endless. The original TV cameras were huge and obtrusive, but TV changed the world. Now imagine what Vision Pro is going to do. I miss the times when the tech world was about the (Peter Thiel definined) Definite Optimism. Now it’s as if we have this European-influenced malaise and everyone is indefinitely pessimistic about everything. Everyone is so cynical and lacking in imagination. However, thanks HN, these comments are going to be legendary in 10 years.
- User23 3y agoThe accessible implications this could have for the blind could be profound. Persons with some usable vision could have data only projected in their usable field. Just as with prism glasses, the brain will eventually click and suddenly the partially sighted legally blind can see everything.
- steele 3y agoGaze+attention analytics are going to be the data broker treasure chest.
- AltruisticGapHN 3y agoIt's really awesome but I think what we really want eventually is to be able to project those displays into the space around is without having to wear any goggles. No doubt we'll get there eventually. Until then headsets can become smaller and lighter and also we may be able to get rid of the cables.
- 2devnull 3y agoPeople don’t want to wear these it seems. Some do, some don’t, sort of like masks or regular glasses. Those that don’t will mock those who do. This will never get widespread adoption but that’s fine. It’s a niche product for a relatively small market. Maybe they can get IT departments to purchase them for execs and certain workers, which would help explain the price tag. I bet Zuckerberg buys one.
- jk_tech 3y agoYou cannot deny that this is an immense technical feat. I think the real draw comes, of course, from the integration with their own eco-system. I imagine 3d videos shot on the iPhone being played back, Ironman like interfaces that can integrate with your physical Apple devices, etc. I have no doubt that it will eventually become smaller and lighter and there will be a tipping point for price and size where this makes complete sense instead of an iPhone or Mac. And if anyone is in it for the long game, I do believe it's Apple.
- blondie9x 3y agoWhat a lonely isolated future to look forward to. It feels like the scene in Minority Report where he is watching a video of his lost son alone. Wish technology had a way to connect us more to reality instead of further removing us from it.
- iancmceachern 3y agoCan you play doom on it?
- lnauta 3y agoAfter watching MKBHD talking about how amazing the eye tracking is, my first thought is: When will apple start selling ads? They can use the eye tracking as feedback to advertisers, allowing apple to ask more money than non-eye tracked ads because they can prove you actually watched the ad. Next you can track what people are looking at in netflix shows and adjust the shows to make them even more algorithmicly optimized (I dont even want to go there). Interesting tech, but I think apple has something in mind we'll only realise a few years down the road (like how the app store turned out).
- elicash 3y agoIn the keynote, they went out of their way to say that they won't give this data to websites, only click data. This, of course, is different. To the extent they can prevent it, they will. But I'm not sure what data app developers NEED to receive for this to work, and certainly any of that info could get passed to a developer. Anyway, Apple has an interest in locking that down as much as possible and expressed a desire to do so. We'll see what happens.
- frankish 3y agoI feel like there's a missed opportunity to continue with the iDevice trend... - Apple Eye - Apple iVision - Apple iGlass But this is so awesome to finally have a company like Apple bring products like this to market. Too bad for the Metaverse.
- synaesthesisx 3y agoAgain, for those complaining about price - the current (and far less capable) Microsoft HoloLens is also $3500. I've personally used and interacted with the HoloLens and was thoroughly impressed, however the leaps in optics & tracking Apple has pulled off make the Vision Pro quite compelling.