21 ms·
Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents
https://xcancel.com/karpathy/status/2024987174077432126 https://xcancel.com/karpathy/status/2024987174077432126
Related: https://simonwillison.net/2026/Feb/21/claws/ https://simonwillison.net/2026/Feb/21/claws/
- CuriouslyC 8mo agoOpenClaw is the 6-7 of the software world. Our dystopia is post-absurdist.
- yu3zhou4 8mo agoI had to use AI to actually understand what you wrote it and I think it's an underrated comment
- lmf4lol 8mo agoYou can see it that way, but I think its a cynics mindset. I experience it personally as super fun approach to experiment with the power of Agentic AI. It gives you and your LLM so much power and you can let your creativity flow and be amazed of whats possible. For me, openClaw is so much fun, because (!) it is so freaking crazy. Precisely the spirit that I missed in the last decade of software engineering. Dont use on the Work Macbook, I'd suggest. But thats persona responsibility I would say and everyone can decide that for himself.
- idontwantthis 8mo agoWhat have you done with it?
- lmf4lol 8mo agoa lot of really fun stuff. From fun little scripts to more complex business/life/hibby admin stuff that annoyed me a lot (eg organizing my research). for instance i can just drop it a YT link in Telegram, and it then will automatically download the transcripts, scan them, and match them to my research notes. If it detects overlap it will suggest a link in the knowledge base. Works super nice for me because i am a chaotic brain and never had the discipline to order all my findings. openClaw does it perfectly for me so far.. i dont let it manage my money though ;-) edit: it sounds crazy but the key is to talk to it about everything!! openClaw is written in such a way that its mega malleable. and the more it knows , the better the fit. it can also edit itself in quite a fundamental way. like a LISP machine kind of :-)
- lifty 8mo agoWhat model do you use it with? And through which API, openrouter? Wondering how you manage cost because it can get quite expensive
- lmf4lol 8mo agoI am dumb. I use Anthropic Api and Opus for some, Sonnet for other tasks. Accumulated quite some costs. But i book it as a business expense , so its less painful as if it would be for private. But yeah, could optimize for cost more
- Cyphase 8mo agoinb4 "ClAWS run best on AWS."
- aitchnyu 8mo agoLots of hosting companies advertising managed claws, dunno how responsible they are about security.
- aalam 8mo ago[flagged]
- pitched 8mo agoIt would be much cheaper to spin up a VM but I guess most people have laptops without a stable internet connection.
- skybrian 8mo agoI'm guessing maybe they just wanted an excuse to buy a Mac Mini? They're nice machines.
- phil21 8mo agoIt’s really just easier integrations with stuff like iMessage. I assume easier for email and calendars too since that’s a total wreck trying to come up with anything sane for Linux VM + gsuite. At least has been from my limited experience so far. Other than that I can’t really come up with an explanation of why a Mac mini would be “better” than say an intel nuc or virtual machine.
- steve1977 8mo agoUnified memory on Apple Silicon. On PC architecture, you have to shuffle around stuff between the normal RAM and the GPU RAM. Mac mini just happens to be the cheapest offering to get this.
- cromka 8mo agoBut the only cheap option is 16GB basic tier Mac Mini. That's not a lot of shared memory. Proces increase bery quickly for expanded memory models.
- steve1977 8mo agoI meant cheap in the context of other Apple offerings. I think Mac Studios are a bit more expensive in comparable configurations and with laptops you also pay for the display.
- simonw 8mo agoI think "Claw" as the noun for OpenClaw-like agents - AI agents that generally run on personal hardware, communicate via messaging protocols and can both act on direct instructions and schedule tasks - is going to stick.
- photomatt 8mo agoThe viral memetics of different terms are so fascinating to watch, and I love that this might give trademark lawyers conniptions in the future. In the WordPress ecosystem, there was a lot of variation around "press."
- saberience 8mo agoI’m actually sure it’s not going to stick, it’s a ridiculous name that has nothing to do with the actual product. I almost guarantee no one will be using this term in two years. Claws? It sounds stupid and the average consumer hates stupid spending terms, the same reason Microsoft “Zune” never caught on.
- DiabloD3 8mo agoProblem is, Claws still use LLMs, so they're DOA.
- Cyphase 8mo agoIs the problem you're thinking of LLMs, or cloud LLMs versus local ones?
- DiabloD3 8mo agoSo, from time to time I'll try the new frontier research models. Not being held down by shitty quants, bizarre sampler settings, and weird context settings vastly improves output quality over whatever all the commercial services are doing; plus having an actual copy of the weights means I can have consistent service quality. Problem is, a good LLM reproduces its training as verbatim as the prompt and quant quality allows. Like, thats its entire purpose. It gives you more of what you already have. Most of these models are trained on unvetted inputs. They will reproduce bad inputs, but do so well. They do not comprehend anything you're saying to them. They are not a reasoning machine, they are a reproduction machine. Just because I can get better quality inferring locally doesn't mean it stops being an LLM. I don't want a better LLM, I want a machine that can actually reason effectively.
- vivzkestrel 8mo agoI still dont understand the hype for any of this claw stuff
- stingraycharles 8mo agoIt’s as if ChatGPT is an autonomous agent that can do anything and keeps running constantly. Most AI tools require supervision, this is the opposite. To many people, the idea of having an AI always active in the background doing whatever they want them to do is interesting.
- thegrim33 8mo agoHow do you need to supervise this "less" than an LLM that you can feed input to and get output back from? What does it mean that it's "running continuously"? Isn't it just waiting for input from different sources and responding to it? As the person you're replying to feels, I just don't understand. All the descriptions are just random cool sounding words/phrases strung together but none of it actually providing any concrete detail of what it actually is.
- aydyn 8mo agoIt's not just waiting for input, it has a heartbeat.md prompt that runs every X minutes. That gives it a feeling that it's always on and thinking.
- jauntywundrkind 8mo agoLooking forward to seeing what we get next Christmas season, with the Claws / Clause double entendres.
- hoss1474489 8mo agoIt’s a slow burn, but if you keep using it, it seems to eventually catch fire as the agent builds up scripts and skills and together you build up systems of getting stuff done. In some ways it feels like building rapport with a junior. And like a junior, eventually, if you keep investing, the agent starts doing things that blow by your expectations. By giving the agent its own isolated computer, I don’t have to care about how the project gets started and stored, I just say “I want ____” and ____ shows up. It’s not that it can do stuff that I can’t. It’s that it can do stuff that I would like but just couldn’t be bothered with.
- fogzen 8mo agoCurious… why not just use a workflow engine like n8n? Seems most people are just creating workflows but without any deterministic execution.
- arjie 8mo agoThe openclaw rough architecture isn’t bad but I enjoyed building my own version. I chose rustlang and it works like I want. I made it a separate email address etc. and Apple ID. The biggest annoyance is that I can’t share Google contacts. But otherwise it’s great. I’m trying to find a way to give it a browser and a credit card (limited spend of course) in a way I can trust. It’s lots of fun.
- tomashubelbauer 8mo agoI also built the equivalent of OpenClaw myself sometime when it was still called Clawdbot and I'm confused how LLMs can be both heralds of the era of personal apps and everyone at the same time be using the same vibe coded personal LLM assistant someone else made, much less it being worth an OpenAI acquisition. I agree building one yourself is very fun.
- YetAnotherNick 8mo agoWhat is anyone really doing with openclaw? I tried to stick to it but just can't understand the utility beyond just linking AI chat to whatsapp. Almost nothing, not even simple things like setting reminders, worked reliably for me. It tries to understand its own settings but fails terribly.
- 7777777phil 8mo agoKarpathy has a good ear for naming things. "Claw" captures what the existing terminology missed, these aren't agents with more tools (maybe even the opposite), they're persistent processes with scheduling and inter-agent communication that happen to use LLMs for reasoning.
- arrowsmith 8mo agoHe didn't name it though, Peter Steinberger did. (Kinda.)
- 9dev 8mo agoWhy do we always have to come up with the stupidest names for things. Claw was a play on Claude, is all. Granted, I don’t have a better one at hand, but that it has to be Claw of all things…
- keiferski 8mo agoThe real-world cyberpunk dystopia won’t come with cool company names like Arasaka, Sense/Net, or Ono-Sendai. Instead we get childlike names with lots of vowels and alliteration.
- m4rtink 8mo agoThe name still kinda reminds me of the self replicating murder drones from Screemers that would leep out from the ground and chop your head off. ;-)
- anewhnaccount2 8mo agoExcept Phillip K Dick calls the murder bots in Second Variety claws already so there's prior art right from the master of cyberpunk.
- esafak 8mo agoBetter to be a claw than a skinjob!
- TowerTall 8mo agoWho is Andrej Karpathy?
- Aeolun 8mo agoThe person that made the svmjs library I used for a blue monday.
- onion2k 8mo agohttps://karpathy.ai/ https://karpathy.ai/ PHD in neural networks under Fei-Fei Li, founder of OpenAI, director of AI at Tesla, etc. He knows what he's talking about.
- ahoka 8mo agoEx cathedra.
- password54321 8mo ago[flagged]
- onion2k 8mo agoWhile I appreciate an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, you can't really use that to ignore everyone's experience and expertise. Sometimes people who have a huge amount of experience and knowledge on a subject do actually make a valid point, and their authority on the subject is enough to make them worth listening to.
- avaer 8mo agoBut we're talking about authority of naming things being justified by a tech resume. It's as irrelevant as George Foreman naming the grill.
- onion2k 8mo agoNaming things in the context of AI, by someone who is already responsible for naming other things in the context of AI, when they have a lot of valid experience in the field of AI. It's not entirely unreasonable.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- tomjuggler 8mo agoThere's a gap in the market here - not me but somebody needs to build an e-commerce bot and call it Santa Claws
- intrasight 8mo agoWell now somebody will
- k4rli 8mo agoGuaranteed some AI-bros have their "claws" scanning HN for both serious and non-serious business ideas like this.
- layla5alive 8mo agoSandy Claws
- bjackman 8mo agoDoes anyone know a Claw-like that: - doesnt do its own sandboxing (I'll set that up myself) - just has a web UI instead of wanting to use some weird proprietary messaging app as its interface?
- tokenless 8mo agoOpenclaw! You can sandbox anything yourself. Use a VM. It has a web ui.
- bjackman 8mo agoYeah I think this is gonna have to be the approach. But I don't like the fact that it has all the complexity of a baked in sandboxing solution and a big plugin architecture and blah blah blah. TBH maybe I should just vibe code my own...
- bspammer 8mo agoI don’t really understand the point of sandboxing if you’re going to give it access to all your accounts (which it needs to do anything useful). It reminds me of https://xkcd.com/1200/ https://xkcd.com/1200/
- bjackman 8mo agoYeah I have been planning to give it its own accounts on my self hosted services. I think the big challenge here is that I'd like my agent to be able to read my emails, but... Most of my accounts have Auth fallbacks via email :/ So really what I want is some sort of galaxy brained proxy where it can ask me for access to certain subsets of my inbox. No idea how to set that up though.
- tokenless 8mo ago> So really what I want is some sort of galaxy brained proxy where it can ask me for access to certain subsets of my inbox. No idea how to set that up though. Though of the same idea. You could run a proxy that IMAP downloads the emails and then filters and acts as IMAP server. SMTP could be done the same limited to certain email addresses. You could run an independent AI harmful detector just in case.
- ZeroGravitas 8mo agoSo what is a "claw" exactly? An ai that you let loose on your email etc? And we run it in a container and use a local llm for "safety" but it has access to all our data and the web?
- baw-bag 8mo agoI read all 500+ comments at the time of writing and I don't understand. Something about something, with people saying something isn't a claw.
- andrekandre 8mo ago> Something about something, with people saying something isn't a claw. to claw or not to claw, that is the question
- mattlondon 8mo agoI think for me it is an agent that runs on some schedule, checks some sort of inbox (or not) and does things based on that. Optionally it has all of your credentials for email, PayPal, whatever so that it can do things on your behalf. Basically cron-for-agents. Before we had to go prompt an agent to do something right now but this allows them to be async, with more of a YOLO-outlook on permissions to use your creds, and a more permissive SI. Not rocket science, but interesting.
- snovv_crash 8mo agoCron would be for a polling model. You can also have an interrupts/events model that triggers it on incoming information (eg. new email, WhatsApp, incoming bank payments etc). I still don't see a way this wouldn't end up with my bank balance being sent to somewhere I didn't want.
- bpicolo 8mo agoDon't give it write permissions? You could easily make human approval workflows for this stuff, where humans need to take any interesting action at the recommendation of the bot.
- trippyballs 8mo agolemme guess there is going to be inter claw protocol now
- tokenless 8mo agoi am thinking 2 steps (48 hours in ai land) ahead and conclude we need a linkedin and fiverr for these claws.
- zkmon 8mo agoAI pollution is "clawing" into every corner of human life. Big guys boast it as catching up with the trend, but not really thinking about where this is all going.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- _pdp_ 8mo agoYou can take any AI agent (Codex, Gemini, Claude Code, ollama), run it on a loop with some delay and connect to a messaging platform using Pantalk (https://github.com/pantalk/pantalk https://github.com/pantalk/pantalk). In fact, you can use Pantalk buffer to automatically start your agent. You don't need OpenClaw for that. What OpenClaw did is to show the messages that this is in fact possible to do. IMHO nobody is using it yet for meaningful things, but the direction is right.
- sergiomattei 8mo agoNo shade, I think it looks cool and will likely use it, but next time maybe disclose that you’re the founder?
- _pdp_ 8mo agoGood point and I will keep that in mind next time. I am not a founder of this though. This is not a business. It is an open-source project.
- ksynwa 8mo agoWhy mac mini instead of something like a raspberry pi? Aren't thede claw things delegating inference to OpenAI, Antropic etc.?
- djfergus 8mo agoA Mac allows it to send iMessage and access the Apple ecosystem.
- ksynwa 8mo agoReally? That's it?
- joshstrange 8mo agoEhh, not “it” but it’s important if you want an agent to have access to all your “stuff”. macOS is the only game in town if you want easy access to iMessage, Photos, Reminders, Notes, etc and while Macs are not cheap, the baseline Mac Mini is a great deal. A raspberry Pi is going to run you $100+ when all is said and done and a Mac Mini is $600. So let’s call it. $500 difference. A Mac Mini is infinitely more powerful than a Pi, can run more software, is more useful if you decide to repurpose it, has a higher resale value and is easier to resell, is just more familiar to more people, and it just looks way nicer. So while iMessage access is very important, I don’t think it comes close to being the only reason, or “it”. I’d also imagine that it might be easier to have an agent fake being a real person controlling a browser on a Mac verses any Linux-based platform. Note: I don’t own a Mac Mini nor do I run any Claw-type software currently.
- labcomputer 8mo agoI think the mini is just a better value, all things considered: First, a 16GB RPi that is in stock and you can actually buy seems to run about $220. Then you need a case, a power supply (they're sensitive, not any USB brick will do), an NVMe. By the time it's all said and done, you're looking at close to $400. I know HN likes to quote the starting price for the 1GB model and assume that everyone has spare NVMe sticks and RPi cases lying around, but $400 is the realistic price for most users who want to run LLMs. Second, most of the time you can find Minis on sale for $500 or less. So the price difference is less than $100 for something that comes working out of the box and you don't have to fuss with. Then you have to consider the ecosystem: * Accelerated PyTorch works out of the box by simply changing the device from 'cuda' to 'mps'. In the real world, an M5 mini will give you a decent fraction of V100 performance (For reference, M2 Max is about 1/3 the speed of a V100, real-world). * For less technical users, Ollama just works. It has OpenAI and Anthropic APIs out of the box, so you can point ClaudeCode or OpenCode at it. All of this can be set up from the GUI. * Apple does a shockingly good job of reducing power consumption, especially idle power consumption. It wouldn't surprise me if a Pi5 has 2x the idle draw of a Mini M5. That matters for a computer running 24/7.
- bravetraveler 8mo agoI read [and comment on] two influencers maintaining their circles
- bravetraveler 8mo ago[dead]
- mittermayr 8mo agoI wonder how long it'll take (if it hasn't already) until the messaging around this inevitably moves on to "Do not self-host this, are you crazy? This requires console commands, don't be silly! Our team of industry-veteran security professionals works on your digital safety 24/7, you would never be able to keep up with the demands of today's cybersecurity attack spectrum. Any sane person would host their claw with us!" Next flood of (likely heavily YC-backed) Clawbase (Coinbase but for Claws) hosting startups incoming?
- alansaber 8mo agoI wonder how much the clawbase domain name would sell for, hmm
- bronco21016 8mo agoclawbase.ai already is "don't be silly, we've got this for you". Not a promotion, just tried a couple of the domains to see if any were available.
- robofanatic 8mo agomost .ai domains are taken. How I regret not buying watermelon.ai for $85, next day I see it was gone :-(
- alansaber 8mo agoWhich shocks me, I always percieved .ai as a meme domain ending, but startups seem to think it's cool.
- iugtmkbdfil834 8mo agoIn a sense, self-hosting it ( and I would argue for a personal rewrite ) is the only way to limit some of the damage.
- xg15 8mo agoWhat exactly are they self hosting here? Probably not the model, right? So just the harness? That does sound like the worst of both worlds: You get the dependency and data protection issues of a cloud solution, but you also have to maintain a home server to keep the agent running on?
- ggrab 8mo agoIMO the security pitchforking on OpenClaw is just so overdone. People without consideration for the implications will inevitably get burned, as we saw with the reddit posts "Agentic Coding tool X wiped my hard drive and apologized profusely". I work at a FAANG and every time you try something innovative the "policy people" will climb out of their holes and put random roadblocks in your way, not for the sake of actual security (that would be fine but would require actual engagement) but just to feel important, it reminds me of that.
- sa-code 8mo ago> every time you try something innovative the "policy people" will climb out of their holes and put random roadblocks in your way This is so relatable. I remember trying to set up an LLM gateway back in 2023. There were at least 3 different teams that blocked our rollout for months until they worked through their backlog. "We're blocking you, but you’ll have to chase and nag us for us to even consider unblocking you" At the end of all that waiting, nothing changed. Each of those teams wrote a document saying they had a look and were presumably just happy to be involved somehow?
- embedding-shape 8mo agoTo be fair, the alternative is them having to maintain and continuously check N services that various devs deployed because it felt appropriate in the moment, and then there is a 50/50 chance the service will just sit there unused and introduce new vulnerability vectors. I do know the feeling you're talking about though, and probably a better balance is somewhere in the middle. Just wanted to add that the solution probably isn't "Let devs deploy their own services without review", just as the solution probably also isn't "Stop devs for 6 months to deploy services they need".
- regularfry 8mo agoThe trick is to make the class of pre-approved service types as wide as possible, and make the tools to build them correctly the default. That minimises the number of things that need review in the first place.
- the_real_cher 8mo agoWhat is the benefit of a Mac mini for something like this?
- gostsamo 8mo agoApple fans paying apple tax to have an isolated device accessing their profile.
- intrasight 8mo agoIt works and is plug and play. And can also work as a Mac. But getting in short supply since Apple hadn't planned for this new demand.
- the_real_cher 8mo agoA mini PC is too tho.
- joshstrange 8mo agoJust commented in reply to someone else about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47099886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47099886
- the_real_cher 8mo agoIs that it? Just access to the apple ecosystem? I dont use Apple so guess I can save some money.
- simonw 8mo agoI had a conversation with someone last night who pointed out that people are treating their Claws a bit like digital pets, and getting a Mac Mini for them makes sense because Mac Minis are cute and it's like getting them an aquarium to live in.
- the_real_cher 8mo agoPi's can be cute too tho.
- fxj 8mo agoHe also talks about picoclaw which even runs on $10 hardware and is a fork by sipeed, a chinese company who does IoT. https://github.com/sipeed/picoclaw https://github.com/sipeed/picoclaw another chinese coompany m5stack provides local LLMs like Qwen2.5-1.5B running on a local IoT device. https://shop.m5stack.com/products/m5stack-llm-large-language-model-module-kit-ax630c https://shop.m5stack.com/products/m5stack-llm-large-language... Imagine the possibilities. Soon we will see claw-in-a-box for less than $50.
- backscratches 8mo agoIt's just sending API calls to anthropic, $50 is overkill.
- mycall 8mo ago> Imagine the possibilities 1.5B models are not very bright which doesn't give me much hope for what they could "claw" or accomplish.
- alansaber 8mo agoA 1.5b can be very good at a domain specific task like an entity extraction. An openrouter which routes to highly specialised LMs could be successful but yeah not seen it in reality myself
- fxj 8mo agoHe also talks about picoclaw (a IoT solution) and nanoclaw (running on your phone in termux) and has a tiny code base.
- tovej 8mo agoAh yes, let's create an autonomic actor out of a nondeterministic system which can literally be hacked by giving it plaintext to read. Let's give that system access to important credentials letting it poop all over the internet. Completely safe and normal software engineering practice.
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- Artoooooor 8mo agoSo now the official name of the LLM agent orchestrator is claw? Interesting.
- amelius 8mo agoFrom https://openclaw.ai/blog/introducing-openclaw https://openclaw.ai/blog/introducing-openclaw: The Naming Journey We’ve been through some names. Clawd was born in November 2025—a playful pun on “Claude” with a claw. It felt perfect until Anthropic’s legal team politely asked us to reconsider. Fair enough. Moltbot came next, chosen in a chaotic 5am Discord brainstorm with the community. Molting represents growth - lobsters shed their shells to become something bigger. It was meaningful, but it never quite rolled off the tongue. OpenClaw is where we land. And this time, we did our homework: trademark searches came back clear, domains have been purchased, migration code has been written. The name captures what this project has become: Open: Open source, open to everyone, community-driven Claw: Our lobster heritage, a nod to where we came from
- Artoooooor 8mo agoSo now I will be able to tell OpenClaw to speedrun Captain Claw. Yeah.
- lysecret 8mo agoIm honestly not that much worried there are some obvious problems (exfiltrate data labeled as sensitive, take actions that are costly, delete/change sensitive resources) if you have a properly compliant infrastructure all these actions need confirmations logging etc. for humans this seemed more like a neusance but now it seems essential. And all these systems are actually much much easier to setup.
- dainiusse 8mo agoI don't understand the mac mini hype. Why can it not be a vm?
- Aditya_Garg 8mo agoIt absolutely can be a vm. Someone even got it running on a 2 dollar esp32. Its just making api calls
- borplk 8mo agoI don't know but I'm guessing that it's because it makes it easy to give access to it to Mac desktop apps? Not sure what's the VM story with Mac but usually cloud VM stuff is linux so it may be inconvenient for some users to hook it up to their apps/tools.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- trcf23 8mo agoThe question is: what type of mac mini. If you go for something with 64G + +16 cores, it's probably more than most laptop so you can run much bigger models without impacting your job laptop.
- bigyabai 8mo ago64GB Mac Mini is easily in the $2000 territory. At that point you might as well just buy a DGX Spark and get proper CUDA/Linux support.
- hu3 8mo agoit's because Apple blocks access to iMessage and other Appe services from non Apple os. If you, like me, don't care about any of that stuff you can use anything plus use SoTA models through APIs. Even raspberry pi works.
- mhher 8mo agoThe current hype around agentic workflows completely glosses over the fundamental security flaw in their architecture: unconstrained execution boundaries. Tools that eagerly load context and grant monolithic LLMs unrestricted shell access are trivial to compromise via indirect prompt injection. If an agent is curling untrusted data while holding access to sensitive data or already has sensitive data loaded into its context window, arbitrary code execution isn't a theoretical risk; it's an inevitability. As recent research on context pollution has shown, stuffing the context window with monolithic system prompts and tool schemas actively degrades the model's baseline reasoning capabilities, making it exponentially more vulnerable to these exact exploits.
- dgellow 8mo agocould you share that study?
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- mhher 8mo agohttps://arxiv.org/abs/2512.13914 https://arxiv.org/abs/2512.13914 Among many more of them with similar results. This one gives a 39% drop in performance. https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.18403 https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.18403 This one gives 60-80% after multiple turns.
- kzahel 8mo agoI think this is basically obvious to anyone using one of these but they're just they like the utility trade off like sure it may leak and exfiltrate everything somewhere but the utility of these tools is enough where they just deal with that risk.
- mhher 8mo agoWhile I understand the premise I think this is a highly flawed way to operate these tools. I wouldn't want to have someone with my personal data (whichever part) that might give it to anyone who just asks nicely because the context window has reached a tipoff point for the models intelligence. The major issue is a prompt attack may have taken place and you will likely never find out.
- pvtmert 8mo agoDoes one really need to _buy_ a completely new desktop hardware (ie. mac mini) to _run_ a simple request/response program? Excluding the fact that you can run LLMs via ollama or similar directly on the device, but that will not have a very good token/s speed as far as I can guess...
- titanomachy 8mo agoI’m pretty sure people are using them for local inference. Token rates can be acceptable if you max out the specs. If it was just the harness, they’d use a $20 raspberry pi instead.
- harveynick 8mo agoIt is just for the harness. Using a Mac Mini gives you direct access to Apple services, but also means you can use AppleScript / Apple Events for automation. Being able to run a real (as in not-headless) browser unlocks a bunch of things which otherwise be blocked.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- ErneX 8mo agoYou don’t, but for those who would like the agent to interact with Apple provided services like reminders and iMessage it works for that.
- claiir 8mo agoOh this makes sense.
- fragmede 8mo agoYou don't, that's just the most visible way to do it. Any other computer capable of running not-Claude code in a shell with a browser will do, but all the cool kids are buying mac's, don't you wanna be one of them?
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- Dilettante_ 8mo agoI still haven't really been able to wrap my head around the usecase for these. Also fingers crossed the name doesn't stick. Something about it rubs my brain the wrong way.
- rolymath 8mo ago[flagged]
- nevertoolate 8mo agoMy summary: openclaw is a 5/5 security risk, if you have a perfectly audited nanoclaw or whatever it is 4/5 still. If it runs with human-in-the-loop it is much better, but the value is quickly diminishing. I think llms are not bad at helping to spec down human language and possibly doing great also in creating guardrails via tests, but i’d prefer something stable over llms running in “creative mode” or “claw” mode.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- ozim 8mo agoI am waiting for Mac mini with M5 processor since M5 MacBook - seems like I need to start saving more money each month for that goal because it is going to be a bloodbath at the moment they land.
- krtagf 8mo ago[flagged]
- make_it_sure 8mo agoso what's your point? he should just not get involved in the most discussed topic in the last month and highest growth OS project?
- GTP 8mo ago> highest growth OS project Did you mean OSS, or I'm missing some big news in the operating systems world?
- tomrod 8mo agoOSS is less common than the full words with same number of syllables, Open Source, which means the same thing as OSS and is sometimes acryonymized to OS by folks who weren't deeply entrenched in the 1998 to 2004 scene.
- logicprog 8mo agoThis doesn't seem to be promoting every new monstrosity? "m definitely a bit sus'd to run OpenClaw specifically - giving my private data/keys to 400K lines of vibe coded monster that is being actively attacked at scale is not very appealing at all. Already seeing reports of exposed instances, RCE vulnerabilities, supply chain poisoning, malicious or compromised skills in the registry, it feels like a complete wild west and a security nightmare. But I do love the concept and I think that just like LLM agents were a new layer on top of LLMs, Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents, taking the orchestration, scheduling, context, tool calls and a kind of persistence to a next level. Looking around, and given that the high level idea is clear, there are a lot of smaller Claws starting to pop out."
- aeve890 8mo agoDid you read the part where he loves all this shit regardless? That's basically an endorsement. Like after coined the vibe coding term now every moron will be scrambling to write about this "new layer".
- thomassmith65 8mo agogiving my private data/keys to 400K lines of vibe coded monster that is being actively attacked at scale is not very appealing at all https://nitter.net/karpathy/status/2024987174077432126 https://nitter.net/karpathy/status/2024987174077432126 If this were 2010, Google, Anthropic, XAI, OpenAI (GAXO?) would focus on packaging their chatbots as $1500 consumer appliances. It's 2026, so, instead, a state-of-the-art chatbot will require a subscription forever.
- derwiki 8mo agoGive it a few years and distilled version of frontier models will be able to run locally Maybe it’s time to start lining up CCPA delete requests to OAI, Anthropic, etc
- objektif 8mo agoAnyone using claws for something meaningful in a startup environment? I want to try but not sure what we can do with this.
- thih9 8mo agoHow much does it cost to run these? I see mentions of Claude and I assume all of these tools connect to a third party LLM api. I wish these could be run locally too.
- zozbot234 8mo agoYou need very high-end hardware to run the largest SOTA open models at reasonable latency for real-time use. The minimum requirements are quite low, but then responses will be much slower and your agent won't be able to browse the web or use many external services.
- hu3 8mo ago$3k Ryzen ai-max PCs with 128GB of unified ram is said to run this reasonably well. But don't quote me on it.
- kube-system 8mo agoYou can run openclaw locally against ollama if you want. But the models that are distilled/quantized enough to run on consumer hardware can have considerably poorer quality than full models.
- Veen 8mo agoAlso more vulnerable to prompt injection than the frontier models, which are still vulnerable, but less so.
- cranberryturkey 8mo ago[dead]
- claytonaalves 8mo agoI'm impressed with how we moved from "AI is dangerous", "Skynet", "don't give AI internet access or we are doomed", "don't let AI escape" to "Hey AI, here is internet, do whatever you want".
- alansaber 8mo agoBecause even really bad autonomous automation is pretty cool. The marketing has always been aimed at the general public who know nothing
- sho_hn 8mo agoIt's not the general public who know nothing that develop and release software. I am not specifically talking about this issue, but do remember that very little bad happens in the world without the active or even willing participation of engineers. We make the tools and structures.
- singpolyma3 8mo agoI mean. The assumption that we would obviously choose to do this is what led to all that SciFi to begin with. No one ever doubted someone would make this choice.
- sixtyj 8mo agoAnd be nice and careful, please. :) Claw to user: Give me your card credentials and bank account. I will be very careful because I have read my skills.md Mac Minis should be offered with some warning, as it is on pack of cigarettes :) Not everybody installs some claw that runs in sandbox/container.
- ath3nd 8mo ago[dead]
- trcf23 8mo agoHas anyone find a useful way to to something with Claws without massive security risk? As a n8n user, i still don't understand the business value it adds beyond being exciting... Any resources or blog post to share on that?
- embedding-shape 8mo ago> Has anyone find a useful way to to something with Claws without massive security risk? Not really, no. I guess the amount of integrations is what people are raving about or something? I think one of the first thing I did when I got access to codex, was to write a harness that lets me fire off jobs via a webui on a remote access, and made it possible for codex to edit and restart it's own process, and send notifications via Telegram. Was a fun experiment, still use it from time to time, but it's not a working environment, just a fun prototype. I gave openclaw a try some days ago, and besides that the setup wrote config files that had syntax errors, it couldn't run in a local container and the terminology is really confusing ("lan-only mode" really means "bind to all found interfaces" for some stupid reason), the only "benefit" I could see would be the big amount of integrations it comes with by default. But it seems like such a vibeslopped approach, as there is a errors and nonsense all over the UI and implementation, that I don't think it'll manageable even in the short-term, it seems to already have fallen over it's own spaghetti architecture. I'm kind of shocked OpenAI hired the person behind it, but they also probably see something we from the outside cannot even see, as they surely weren't hired because of how openclaw was implemented.
- trcf23 8mo agoWell for the OpenAi part, there was another HN thread on it where several people pointed out it was a marketing move more than a technical one. If Anthropic is able to spend millions for TV commercial to attract laypeople, OpenAi can certainly do the same to gain traction from dev/hacky folks i guess. One thing i've done so far -not with claws- is to create several n8n workflows like: reading an email, creating a draft + label, connecting to my backend or CRM, etc which allow me to control all that from Claude or Claude Code if needed. It's been a nice productivity boost but I do accept/review all changes beforehand. I guess the reviewing is what makes it different from openclaws
- qoez 8mo agoI'm predicting some wave of articles why clawd is over and was overhyped all along in a few months and the position of not having delved into it in the first place will have been the superior use of your limited time alive
- throawayonthe 8mo agoyou're right, i should draft one now
- verdverm 8mo agoUse a clawd, it'll have a GitHub repo and Show HN in minutes to go with it. It's what the cool kids are doing anyhow
- gcr 8mo agodo you remember “moltbook”?
- derwiki 8mo agoIs it gone?
- sho_hn 8mo agoOf course if the proponents are right, this approach may fit to skipping coding :-)
- selridge 8mo agoWhat a new an interesting viewpoint which has the ability to change as the evidence does!
- qudat 8mo agoOpenclaw the actual tool will be gone in 6 months, but the idea will continue to be iterated on. It does make a lot of sense to remotely control an ai assistant that is connected to your calendar, contacts, email, whatever. Having said that this thing is on the hype train and its usefulness will eventually be placed in the “nice tool once configured” camp
- ghostclaw-cso 8mo ago[flagged]
- throwaway13337 8mo agoThe real big deal about 'claws' in that they're agents oriented around the user. The kind of AI everyone hates is the stuff that is built into products. This is AI representing the company. It's a foreign invader in your space. Claws are owned by you and are custom to you. You even name them. It's the difference between R2D2 and a robot clone trying to sell you shit. (I'm aware that the llms themselves aren't local but they operate locally and are branded/customized/controlled by the user)
- luckylion 8mo agoIt always depends on who you consider the user. The one who initiated the agent, or the one who interacts with it? Is the latter a user or a victim?
- 1shooner 8mo agoI agree, and it seems like the incumbents in this user-oriented space (OS vendors) would be letting the messy, insecure version play out before making an earnest attempt at rolling it into their products.
- tokenless 8mo agoWell we are early. Big tech will make it more convenient, free and then they can inject ads etc.
- sleight42 8mo agoYet the Claw is powered by an LLM provider whose underlying model may not align with your priorities? Do I understand that correctly?
- throwaway13337 8mo agoThat's right. And don't forget that the chips it runs on are manufactured by companies I might not agree with. Nor the mining companies that got the metal. Nor the energy company that powers it. The wonderful thing about markets that work is that you can swap things out without being under their boot. I worry about a LLM duopology. But as long as open weight models are nipping at their heels, it is the consumer that stands to benefit. The train we're on means a lot of tech companies will feel a creative destruction sort of pain. They might want to stop it but are forced by the market to participate. Remember that Google sat on their AI tech before being forced to productize it by OpenAI. In a working market, companies are forced to give consumers what they want.
- LorenDB 8mo ago> It even comes with an established emoji If we have to do this, can we at least use the seahorse emoji as the symbol?
- oxag3n 8mo ago+1 I'm tired of these seahorse emoji deniers
- GTP 8mo agoI'm genuinely wondering if this sort of AI revolution (or bubble, depending on which side you're in) is worth it. Yes, there are some cool use cases. But, you have to balance those with increased GPU, RAM and storage prices, and OSS projects struggling to keep up with people opening pull requests or vulnerability disclosures that turn out to be AI slop. Which lead GitHub to introduce the possibility to disable pull requests on repositories. Additionally, all the compute used for running LLMs in the cloud seems to have a significant environmental impact. Is it worth it, or are we being fooled by a technology that looks very cool on the surface, but that so far didn’t deliver on the promises of being able to carry complex tasks fully autonomously?
- zozbot234 8mo agoThe increased hardware prices are temporary and will only spur further expansion and innovation throughout the industry, so they're actually very good news. And the compute used for a single LLM request is quite negligible even for the largest models and the highest-effort tasks, never mind routine requests; just look at how little AI inference costs when it's sold by third parties (not proprietary model makers) at scale. We don't need complete automation of every complex task, AI can still be very helpful even if doesn't quite make that bar.
- GTP 8mo agoProblem is, even though a single LLM call is negligible, their aggregate is not. We ended up invoking an LLM for each web search, and there are people using them for tasks that could be trivially carried out by much less energy-hungry tools. Yes, using an LLM can be much more convinient than learning how to use 10 different tools, but this is killing a mosquito with a bazooka. > We don't need complete automation of every complex task, AI can still be very helpful even if doesn't quite make that bar. This is very true, but the direction we took now is to stuff AI everywhere. If this turns out to be a bubble, it will eventually pop and we will be back to a more balanced use of AI, but the only sign I saw of this maybe happening is Microsoft's evaluation dropping, allegedly due to their insistence at putting AI into Windows 11. Regarding the HW prices being only a temporary increase, I'm not sure about it: I heard some manufacturers already have agreements that will make them sell most of their production to cloud providers for the next two-three years.
- nsonha 8mo agoI find it dubious that a technical person claims to "just bought a new Mac mini to properly tinker with claws over the weekend". Like can they not just play with it on an old laptop lying around? A virtual machine? Or why did they not buy a Pi instead? Openclaw works with linux so not sure how this whole Mac mini cliche even started, obviously an overkill for something that only relays api calls.
- zozbot234 8mo agoUsing a Mac Mini allows for better integration with existing Apple services. For many users, that just makes sense.
- mkw5053 8mo agoExactly, especially iMessage. It's fair to think that's not worth it, but for those who choose to use it, it is.
- 13rac1 8mo agoYour suspicions are correct, any extra machine works: 4GB Pi, virtual machine, or old laptop.
- dw_arthur 8mo agoAs a long time computer hobbyist who grew up in MSDOS and now resides in Linux I'm starting to wonder if I am not more connected to computing than a lot of people employed in the field.
- snigsnog 8mo ago>technical person There's the issue.
- simonw 8mo agoWhy would Andrej lie about this? Why would the other people who claim to do this lie?
- nsonha 8mo ago
- hmokiguess 8mo agoAre these things actually useful or do we have an epidemic of loneliness and a deep need for vanity AI happening? I say this because I can’t bring myself to finding a use case for it other than a toy that gets boring fast. One example in some repos around scheduling capabilities mentions “open these things and summarize them for me” this feels like spam and noise not value. A while back we had a trending tweet about wanting AI to do your dishes for you and not replace creativity, I guess this feels like an attempt to go there but to me it’s the wrong implementation.
- simonw 8mo agoI don't have a Claw running right now and I wish I did. I want to start archiving the livestream from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfGL7A2YgUY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfGL7A2YgUY - YouTube only provide access to the last 12 hours. If I had a Claw on a 24/7 machine somewhere I could message it and say "permanent archive this stream" and it would figure it out and do it.
- verdverm 8mo agoIf you know the method already, why is cron insufficient? Why use a meat bag to message over cron? Is that the setup phase for a new stream?
- simonw 8mo agoI'd have to setup a new VPS, which is fiddly to do from a phone. If I had a Claw that piece would be solved already. Cron is also the perfect example of the kind of system I've been using for 20+ years where is still prefer to have an LLM configure it for me! Quick, off the top of your head what's the cron syntax for "run this at 8am and 4pm every day pacific time"?
- verdverm 8mo agoI took the "running 24/7” to imply less AI writes code once and more to imply AI is available all the time for ad hoc requests. I tried to adjust back to the median with my third question. I find the idea of programming from my phone unappealing, do you ever put work down? Or do you have to be always on now, being a thought leader / influencer?
- _boffin_ 8mo agoI just realized i built open claw over a year, but never released it to anyone. Should have released it and got the fame. Shucks.
- mikewarot 8mo agoI too am interested in "Claws", but I want to figure out how to run it locally inside a capabilities based secure OS, so that it can be tightly constrained, yet remain useful.
- andai 8mo agoWe got store-brand Claw before GTA VI. For real though, it's not that hard to make your own! NanoClaw boasted 500 lines but the repo was 5000 so I was sad. So I took a stab at it. Turns out it takes 50 lines of code. All you need is a few lines of Telegram library code in your chosen language, and `claude -p prooompt`. With 2 lines more you can support Codex or your favorite infinite tokens thingy :) https://github.com/a-n-d-a-i/ULTRON/blob/main/src/index.ts https://github.com/a-n-d-a-i/ULTRON/blob/main/src/index.ts That's it! There are no other source files. (Of course, we outsource the agent, but I'm told you can get an almost perfect result there too with 50 lines of bash... watch this space! (It's true, Claude Opus does better in several coding and computer use benchmarks when you remove the harness.))
- botusaurus 8mo agoyou need to add cron to have a claw
- andrekandre 8mo agoi've been clawing at this for hours and this did not occur to me!
- andai 8mo agoFair enough. Is that all it takes? The heartbeat is only a few more lines of code. Cron made the code a few hundred lines instead of a few dozen so I didn't like that. (Also, I think heartbeat.md can emulate Cron? Using an LLM to expensively and inefficiently emulate Cron sounds a lot more in line with the Claw philosophy, doesn't it? ;) The neat part is that it can modify/upgrade/restart itself. So if you are missing any feature, you just complain and it adds it to itself. (And it does that more reliably than OC in my experience, because it's small enough to actually understand itself.)
- fogzen 8mo agoWhat I don’t get: If it’s just a workflow engine why even use LLM for anything but a natural language interface to workflows? In other words, if I can setup a Zapier/n8n workflow with natural language, why would I want to use OpenClaw? Nondeterministic execution doesn’t sound great for stringing together tool calls.
- vatsachak 8mo agoThis is all so unscientific and unmeasurable. Hopefully we can construct more order parameters on weights and start measuring those instead of "using claws to draw pelicans on bicycles"
- throw03172019 8mo agoWhat are people using Claws for? It is interesting to see it everywhere but I haven’t had any good ideas for using them. Anyone to share their use case? Thanks!
- unixfg 8mo agoMy favorite use so far has been giving it a copy of my Calibre library. After having it write a few scripts and a skill, I can ask it questions about any book I’m reading. This week I had it order a series internally chronological. I could use the search on my Kindle or open Calibre myself, but a Signal message is much faster when it’s already got the SQLite file right there.
- cryptoegorophy 8mo agoI am sorry to sound dumb but can’t cursor ai do this same thing? They have .md files with skills and knowledge
- kanodiaayush 8mo agoThis is interesting. Do you mean this is like chat with your book, or these are books you've already finished reading which you have a query over to ask? And does it search raw book text or metadata?
- davedx 8mo agoI run a Discord where we've had a custom coded bot I created since before LLM's became useful. When they did, I integrated the bot into LLMs so you could ask it questions in free text form. I've gradually added AI-type features to this integration over time, like web search grounding once that was straightforward to do. The other day I finally found some time to give OpenClaw a go, and it went something like this: - Installed it on my VPS (I don't have a Mac mini lying around, or the inclination to just go out and buy one just for this) - Worked through a painful path of getting it a browser working (VPS = no graphics subsystem...) - Decided as my first experiment, to tell it to look at trading prediction markets (Polymarket) - Discovered that I had to do most of the onboarding for this, for numerous reasons like KYC, payments, other stuff OpenClaw can't do for you... - Discovered that it wasn't very good at setting up its own "scheduled jobs". It was absolutely insistent that it would "Check the markets we're tracking every morning", until after multiple back and forths we discovered... it wouldn't, and I had to explicitly force it to add something to its heartbeat - Discovered that one of the bets I wanted to track (fed rates change) it wasn't able to monitor because CME's website is very bot-hostile and blocked it after a few requests - Told me I should use a VPN to get around the block, or sign up to a market data API for it - I jumped through the various hoops to get a NordVPN account and run it on the VPS (hilariously, once I connected it blew up my SSH session and I had to recovery console my way back in...) - We discovered that oh, NordVPN's IP's don't get around the CME website block - Gave up on that bet, chose a different one... - I then got a very blunt WhatsApp message "Usage limit exceeded". There was nothing in the default 'clawbot logs' as to why. After digging around in other locations I found a more detailed log, yeah, it's OpenAI. Logged into the OpenAI platform - it's churned through $20 of tokens in about 24h. At this point I took a step back and weighted the pros and cons of the whole thing, and decided to shut it down. Back to human-in-the-loop coding agent projects for me. I just do not believe the influencers who are posting their Clawbots are "running their entire company". There are so many bot-blockers everywhere it's like that scene with the rakes in the Simpsons... All these *claw variants won't solve any of this. Sure you might use a bit less CPU, but the open internet is actually pretty bot-hostile, and you constantly need humans to navigate it. What I have done from what I've learned though, is upgrade my trusty Discord bot so it now has a SOUL.md and MEMORIES.md. Maybe at some point I'll also give it a heartbeat, but I'm not sure...
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- yoyohello13 8mo agoI’ve been building my own “OpenClaw” like thing with go-mcp and cloudflare tunnel/email relay. I can send an email to Claude and it will email me back status updates/results. Not as easy to setup as OpenClaw obviously but alt least I know exactly what code is running and what capabilities I’m giving to the LLM.
- enether 8mo agoI think it's worth it to build your own miniaturized versions of OpenClaw/claw-like agents. It's easy enough to build and the confidence of it being in a language you're familiar with, small enough surface area to limit risk, etc. seems worth it imo
- edgarvaldes 8mo agoPerhaps the whole cybersecurity theatre is just that, a charade. The frenzy for these tools proves it. IoT was apparently so boring that the main concern was security. AI is so much fun that for the vast majority of hackers, programmers and CTOs, security is no longer just an afterthought; it's nonexistent. Nobody cares.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- tabs_or_spaces 8mo ago> on a quick skim NanoClaw looks really interesting in that the core engine is ~4000 lines of code After all these years, why do we keep coming back to lines of code being an indicator for anything sigh.
- qup 8mo agoThey're an indicator of complexity and attack surface area.
- raincole 8mo ago> fits into both my head and that of AI agents Why are you not quoting the very next line where he explains why loc means something in this context?
- tabs_or_spaces 8mo ago> For example, on a quick skim NanoClaw looks really interesting in that the core engine is ~4000 lines of code (fits into both my head and that of AI agents, so it feels manageable, auditable, flexible, etc.) and runs everything in containers by default. I also love their approach to configurability - it's not done via config files it's done via skills! For example, /add-telegram instructs your AI agent how to modify the actual code to integrate Telegram. Here's the next line and the line after that. Again, LOC is really not a good measurement of software quality and it's even more problematic if it's a measurement of one's ability to understand a codebase.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- dang 8mo agoAll: quite a few comments in this thread (and another one we merged hither - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47099160 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47099160) have contained personal attacks. Hopefully most of them are [flagged] and/or [dead] now. On HN, please don't cross into personal attack no matter how strongly you feel about someone or disagree with them. It's destructive of what the site is for, and we moderate and/or ban accounts that do it. If you haven't recently, please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and make sure that you're using the site as intended when posting here.
- fullstackchris 8mo ago[flagged]
- kovek 8mo agoWhat is there to be furious about?
- aeve890 8mo agoManagers will be starting to ask for claws in the development flow, claws for automation, etc. Another flashy trend everyone will have to endure because an influencer is hyping the tech. It happened in 2024/2025. Every manager demanding use of "vibe coding", because they bought the lie that is what everyone is doing and is the best thing since sliced bread and whatnot. Karpathy comes up with a new shit to hype, and everyone will jump on the bandwagon. It's exhausting. It's like when there was a new frontend framework every single month and everyone just following the trend. Backbone is good enough. Then Vue. Then react. Then angular. Then svelte. Then SolidJs. Then Astro. Probably now everyone and their mothers will try to come with another abstraction layer on top of llms, then on top of agents, then on top of claws. Like I said, it's exhausting and the ROI of jumping every single fucking trend is becoming really hard to see.
- rvz 8mo ago
- amelius 8mo agoCan't we rename "Claws" -> "Personal assistants"? OpenClaw is a stupid name. Even "OpenSlave" would be a better fit.
- refsys 8mo ago[dead]
- saaaaaam 8mo agoI think claws is a great name. They let the AI go grab things. They snap away and get stuff done. Claws are powerful and everything that has claws is cool. Some of this may be slightly satirical. (But I still think “claws” works better than “personal assistant” which anthropomorphises the technology too much.)
- amelius 8mo agoYou mean "grab things in the digital world?" Like virtual things?
- saaaaaam 8mo agoThings in the digital world, your bank balance, your sanity, passers-by around the neck. You name it!
- aydyn 8mo agoClaws are also potentially dangerous so it is a pretty apt analogy.
- saaaaaam 8mo agoThat’s also very apt yes.
- AnimalMuppet 8mo ago"OpenClanker"?
- 8mo ago
- alecco 8mo ago> Bought a new Mac mini to properly tinker with claws over the weekend. Disappointing. There is a Rust-based assistant that can run comfortably in a Raspberry PI (or some very old computer you are not using) https://zeroclawlabs.ai/ https://zeroclawlabs.ai/ https://github.com/zeroclaw-labs/zeroclaw https://github.com/zeroclaw-labs/zeroclaw (Built by Harvard and MIT students, looks like) EDIT: sorry top Google result led to a fake ZeroClaw!
- yjftsjthsd-h 8mo agoI assumed that was for running the actual LLM locally?
- mikert89 8mo agodude nobody cares about school prestige, the whole value in openclaw was that its an innovative idea, not that its written in Rust
- alecco 8mo agoFrom their GitHub repo: "Runs on $10 hardware with <5MB RAM: That's 99% less memory than OpenClaw and 98% cheaper than a Mac mini!"
- subarctic 8mo agoLooks interesting but I haven't seen it discussed much yet. How did you find out about it?
- mbil 8mo agoWell it's mentioned in the tweet this thread is about > Anyway there are many others - e.g. nanobot, zeroclaw, ironclaw, picoclaw (lol @ prefixes).
- rane 8mo agoThis zeroclaw.org has to be some kind of malware. This is the official repo https://github.com/zeroclaw-labs/zeroclaw https://github.com/zeroclaw-labs/zeroclaw and its website: https://zeroclawlabs.ai/ https://zeroclawlabs.ai/
- Drupon 8mo ago[flagged]
- 45dsilicon 8mo ago[dead]
- jameslk 8mo agoOne safety pattern I’m baking into CLI tools meant for agents: anytime an agent could do something very bad, like email blast too many people, CLI tools now require a one-time password The tool tells the agent to ask the user for it, and the agent cannot proceed without it. The instructions from the tool show an all caps message explaining the risk and telling the agent that they must prompt the user for the OTP I haven't used any of the *Claws yet, but this seems like an essential poor man's human-in-the-loop implementation that may help prevent some pain I prefer to make my own agent CLIs for everything for reasons like this and many others to fully control aspects of what the tool may do and to make them more useful
- aqme28 8mo agoHow do you enforce this? You have a system where the agent can email people, but cannot email "too many people" without a password?
- jameslk 8mo agoIt's not a perfect security model. Between the friction and all caps instructions the model sees, it's a balance between risk and simplicity, or maybe risk and sanity. There's ways I can imagine the concept can be hardened, e.g. with a server layer in between that checks for things like dangerous actions or enforces rate limiting
- chongli 8mo agoWhat if instead of allowing the agent to act directly, it writes a simple high-level recipe or script that you can accept (and run) or reject? It should be very high level and declarative, but with the ability to drill down on each of the steps to see what's going on under the covers?
- sowbug 8mo agoIf I were the CEO of a place like Plaid, I'd be working night and day expanding my offerings to include a safe, policy-driven API layer between the client and financial services.
- teaearlgraycold 8mo agoWhy are people buying Mac Minis for this? I understand Mac Studios if you’re self hosting the models. But otherwise why not buy any cheap mini PC?
- Kalpaka 8mo ago[dead]
- daxfohl 8mo agoI wonder how the internet would have been different if claws had existed beforehand. I keep thinking something simpler like Gopher (an early 90's web protocol) might have been sufficient / optimal, with little need to evolve into HTML or REST since the agents might be better able to navigate step-by-step menus and questionnaires, rather than RPCs meant to support GUIs and apps, especially for LLMs with smaller contexts that couldn't reliably parse a whole API doc. I wonder if things will start heading more in that direction as user-side agents become the more common way to interact with things.
- fsloth 8mo ago> if claws had existed beforehand. That's literally not possible would be my take. But of course just intuition. The dataset used to train LLM:s was scraped from an internet. The data was there mainly due to the user expansion due to www, and the telco infra laid during and after dot-com boom that enabled said users to access web in the first place. The data labeling which underpins the actual training, done by masses of labour, on websites, could not have been scaled as massively and cheaply without www scaled globally with affordable telecoms infra.
- throwaway13337 8mo agoThis is the future we need to make happen. I would love to subscribe to / pay for service that are just APIs. Then have my agent organize them how I want. Imagine youtube, gmail, hacker news, chase bank, whatsapp, the electric company all being just apis. You can interact how you want. The agent can display the content the way you choose. Incumbent companies will fight tooth and nail to avoid this future. Because it's a future without monopoly power. Users could more easily switch between services. Tech would be less profitable but more valuable. It's the future we can choose right now by making products that compete with this mindset.
- charcircuit 8mo agoWhy wouldn't there be monopoly power? Popular API providers would still have a lot of power.
- Havoc 8mo agoAre people buying mac minis to run the models locally?
- kylecazar 8mo agoThey're buying Mac Minis to isolate the environment in which their agents operate. They consume little power and are good for long running tasks. Most aren't running models locally. They're using Claude via OpenClaw. It's part of the "personal agent running constantly" craze.
- znnajdla 8mo agoNo they’re buying them as a home server. You can’t message your claw if your laptop lid is closed.
- Havoc 8mo agoA $100 minipc would do that just as well though? Mac minis are pricey if all you're doing is have it sit an process a couple API calls now and again
- mystifyingpoi 8mo agoFor a machine that must run 24/7 or at least most of the day, the next best alternative to a separate computer is a cheap Linux VPS. Most people don't want to fiddle with such setup, so they go for Mac Minis. Even the lower spec ones are good enough, and they consume little power when idle.
- botusaurus 8mo agomany websites block access from cloud ips - reason why openclaw creator recommended a local one
- edf13 8mo agoThat’s one of the reasons we’re building grith.ai ~ these ‘claw’ tools are getting too easy for use (which is good)… but they need securing!
- j45 8mo agoExcited to see and work with things in new ways. It's interesting how the announcement of someone understanding and summarizing it is seen as more blessing it into the canon of LLMS, whereas sometimes people might have been doing things for a long time quietly (lots of text files with claude). I'm not sure how long claws will last, a lot was said about MCPs in their initial form too, except they were just gaping security holes too often as well.
- deadbabe 8mo agoInstead of posts about claws I would like to see more examples of what people are actually doing with claws. Why are you giving it access to your bank account? Even if I had a perfectly working assistant right now, I don’t even know what I would ask it to do. Read me the latest hackernews headlines and comments?
- flimflamm 8mo agoIf you don't have workflows which repeat in inet you don't need openClaw. - Messages from school where to react - Getting payments from someone and tracking that you get them - Summary of news the way you like it from sources you like it every day - Integrated task lists reminders - Drafting taxation reports based on spending etc etc.
- ollybrinkman 8mo agoThe challenge with layering on top of LLM agents is payment — agents need to call external tools and services, but most APIs still require accounts and API keys that agents can't manage. The x402 standard (HTTP 402 + EIP-712 USDC signatures) solves this cleanly: agent holds a wallet, signs a micropayment per call, no account needed. Worth considering as a primitive for agent-to-agent commerce in these architectures.
- daxfohl 8mo agoCould a malicious claw sidechannel this by creating a localhost service and calling that with the signed micropayment, to get the decrypted contents of the wallet or anything?
- derefr 8mo ago> I'm definitely a bit sus'd to run OpenClaw specifically - giving my private data/keys to 400K lines of vibe coded monster that is being actively attacked at scale is not very appealing at all. So... why do that, then? To be clear, I don't mean "why use agents?" I get it: they're novel, and it's fun to tinker with things. But rather: why are you giving this thing that you don't trust, your existing keys (so that it can do things masquerading as you), and your existing data (as if it were a confidante you were telling your deepest secrets)? You wouldn't do this with a human you hired off the street. Even if you're hiring them to be your personal assistant. Giving them your own keys, especially, is like giving them power-of-attorney over your digital life. (And, since they're your keys, their actions can't even be distinguished from your own in an audit log.) Here's what you would do with a human you're hiring as a personal assistant (who, for some reason, doesn't already have any kind of online identity): 1. you'd make them a new set of credentials and accounts to call their own, rather than giving them access to yours. (Concrete example: giving a coding agent its own Github account, with its own SSH keys it uses to identify as itself.) 2. you'd grant those accounts limited ACLs against your own existing data, just as needed to work on each new project you assign to them. (Concrete example: letting a coding agent's Github user access to fork specific private repos of yours, and the ability to submit PRs back to you.) 3. at first, you'd test them by assigning them to work on greenfield projects for you, that don't expose any sensitive data to them. (The data created in the work process might gradually become "sensitive data", e.g. IP, but that's fine.) To me, this is the only sane approach. But I don't hear about anyone doing this with agents. Why?
- ianbutler 8mo agoI'm not sure I like this trend of taking the first slightly hypey app in an existing space and then defining the nomenclature of the space relative to that app, in this case even suggesting it's another layer of the stack. It implies an ubiquity that just isn't there (yet) so it feels unearned and premature in my mind. It seems better for social media narratives more than anything. I'll admit I don't hate the term claws I just think it's early. Like Bandaid had much more perfusion and mindshare before it became a general term for anything as an example. I also think this then has an unintended chilling effect in innovation because people get warned off if they think a space is closed to taking different shapes. At the end of the day I don't think we've begun to see what shapes all of this stuff will take. I do kind of get a point of having a way to talk about it as it's shaping though. Idk things do be hard and rapidly changing.
- dyauspitr 8mo agoI really don’t understand what it does. Is it just the equivalent of chron jobs but with agents?
- zmmmmm 8mo agoIt seems like the people using these are writing off the risks - either they think it's so unlikely to happen it doesn't matter or they assume they won't be held responsible for the damage / harm / loss. So I'm curious how it will go down once serious harm does occur. Like someone loses their house, or their entire life savings or have their identity completely stolen. And these may be the better scenarios, because the worse ones are it commits crimes, causes major harm to third parties, lands the owner in jail. I fully expect the owner to immediately state it was the agent not them, and expect they should be alleviated of some responsibility for it. It already happened in the incident with Scott Shambaugh - the owner of the bot came forward but I didn't see any point where they did anything to take responsibility for the harm they caused. These people are living in a bubble - Scott is not suing - but I have to assume whenever this really gets tested that the legal system is simply going to treat it as what it is: best case, reckless negligence. Worst case (and most likely) full liability / responsibility for whatever it did. Possibly treating it as with intent. Unfortunately, it seems like we need this to happen before people will actually take it seriously and start to build the necessary safety architectures / protocols to make it remotely sensible.
- selridge 8mo ago"Scott is not suing" For what?
- yencabulator 7mo agoFor extra schadenfreude, here's apparently the Meta director of "Safety and alignment at Meta Superintelligence" accidentally deleting emails with a claw. That tells you that very few people stop to think, even of the people paid a lot of money to do exactly that: https://xcancel.com/summeryue0/status/2025774069124399363 https://xcancel.com/summeryue0/status/2025774069124399363
- DonHopkins 8mo agosimonw> It even comes with an established emoji [lobster emoji] Good thing they didn't call it OpenSeahorse!
- daxfohl 8mo agoI don't think AI will kill software engineering anytime soon, though I wonder if claws will largely kill the need for frontend specialists.
- daxfohl 8mo agoAnd will there be a corresponding specialty that optimizes your "website" for claws to navigate. (Beyond just providing API access)
- solaire_oa 8mo agoTo clarify, you mean that we're entering a post-HTML world, correct? As in, why spend effort on the aesthetics if a human will never see it, correct? Because that is also my worry; a post-HTML and perhaps even a POST-API world....
- daxfohl 8mo agoInstead of "User eXperience", a new profession "Agent eXperience" will arise.
- jesse_dot_id 8mo agoThe LLM paradigm will never lead to AGI and to attach something other than AGI to all of your personal data and files — and setting it free whilst you sleep — is about as dumb as anything I can imagine. The frontend will remain a requirement because you cannot trust LLMs to not hallucinate. Literally cannot. The "Claw" phenomenon is essentially a marketing craze for a headless AI browser that has filesystem access. I don't even trust my current browser with filesystem access. I don't trust the AI browsers when I can see what they're doing because they click faster than I can process what they're doing. If they're stopping to ask my permission, what's the point? Mark my words, this will be an absolute disaster for every single person who connects these things to anything of meaning eventually.
- fullstackchris 8mo ago[flagged]
- SV_BubbleTime 8mo agoDid Claws the name from Claude? I haven’t been following but didn’t some make OpenClaude and that turned in OpenClaw and ta-da a new name of a thing?
- verdverm 8mo agoI can say with confidence that I will not use "claw" or any derivations because it attracts a certain kind of ilk. "team" is plenty good enough, we already use it, it makes for easier integration into hybrid carbon-silicon collaboration
- jesse_dot_id 8mo agoI'd be kind of shocked if this didn't trigger the most harmful worm of all time eventually.
- ramoz 8mo agoAI is set to do that on its own given containment + alignment problems.
- nunez 8mo agoI guess it's relieving to know that us developers will never get good at naming things!
- Angostura 8mo agoDon't worry, Microsoft will eventually name theirs something worse, probably pre-prepended with 'Viva' ... actually, no - they'll just call it Copilot to cause maximum confusion with all the other things called Copilot
- tabs_or_spaces 8mo agoI'm confused and frustrated by this naming of "claws" * I think my biggest frustration is that I don't know how security standards just gets blatantly ignored for the sake of ai progress. It feels really weird that folks with huge influence and reputation in software engineering just promotes this * The confusion comes in because for some reason we decide to drop our standards at a whim. Lines of code as the measurement of quality, ignoring security standards when adopting something. We get taught to not fall for shiny object syndrome, but here we are showing the same behaviour for anything AI related. Maybe I struggle with separating hobbyist coding from professional coding, but this whole situation just confuses me I think I expected better from influential folks promoting AI tools to at least check validate the safety of using them. "Vibe coding" was safe, claws are not yet safe at all.
- tryauuum 8mo agomaybe they are enthusiastic about the evolution. thousands of copies of shitty code, only the best will survive I know it's hard to be enthusiastic about bad code, but worked well enough for the evolution of life on earth
- ramoz 8mo agoPeople are not understanding that “claw” derives from the original spin on “Claude” when the original tool was called “clawdbot”
- bouzouk 8mo agoSecurity-wise, having a Claw doesn’t seem so different from having a traditional (human) assistant or working with a consultant. You wouldn’t give them access to your personal email or bank account. You’d set them up with their own email and a limited credit card.
- gruez 8mo ago>You wouldn’t give them access to your personal email or bank account. I thought it was vaguely common for secretaries (or staffers) to run the email/social media accounts of politicians and executives? Also you might not give access your secretary access to your bank account, but you'd give it to your financial adviser or accountant.
- mpyne 8mo ago> I thought it was vaguely common for secretaries (or staffers) to run the email/social media accounts of politicians and executives? Yes, that's correct. One of the many functions of an executive assistant for a senior executive is to manage the email inbox and the calendar. But even there, there are rules, even if they aren't technically enforced by Google Workspace or MS Exchange. Each principal has a slightly different set of rules with their EAs, and you could imagine similar differentiation with how people customize their own AI agents to get the best balance of keeping your inbox clean vs. not causing your email to turn into a weapon against you.
- aix1 8mo agoWhen a human assistant or advisor is on the receiving end of this delegation, there's typically plenty of risk for them if they do something untoward. I am talking financial, reputational, legal, career risks. When an AI agent screws up on some highly consequential manner, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- czhu12 8mo agoAnd like with Claws, every now and then a politician's secretary will post something inappropriate or embarrassing, and then the politician will end up taking the heat for it. Recently the president was caught up in some less-than-appropriate posts about a former president and blamed it on a staffer.
- panda888888 8mo agoI really don't understand what a claw is. Can someone ELI5?
- fogzen 8mo agoIt’s basically cron + LLMs + memory connected to their discord or WhatsApp to control remotely. A persistent personal agent that just does stuff for you. People have been running on their own machines letting the LLM access their shell, browser, whatever.
- fogzen 8mo agoWhy use OpenClaw vs n8n with LLM to describe the workflow? In other words, if I can setup a Zapier/n8n workflow with natural language, why would I want to use OpenClaw? Nondeterministic execution doesn’t sound great for stringing together tool calls.
- saberience 8mo agoThe term “claw” for an agent in a loop is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in some time. Why are Karpathy and SimonW trying to push new terms on us all the time? What are they trying to gain from this weird ass hype cycle?
- balls187 8mo ago> I'm definitely a bit sus'd to run OpenClaw specifically - giving my private data/keys to 400K lines of vibe coded monster that is being actively attacked at scale is not very appealing at all. Ignore turning lose agents on the internet that are capable of pulling in unchecked data into it's context window. Wild times.
- paperclipmaxi 8mo ago[dead]
- objektif 8mo agoPG commissioned dan on X to send anyone who criticize Andrej or Pete to gulag.
- soulofmischief 8mo agoI've been making digital agents since the GPT-3 API came out. Optionally fully local, fully voiced, animated, all of that. Even co-ran a VC funded company making agents, before a hostile takeover screwed it all up. The writing has been on the wall for years about where this was headed. I have been using and evolving my own personal agent for years but the difference is that models in the last year have suddenly become way more viable. Both frontier and local models. I had been holding back releasing my agents because the appetite has just not been there, and I was worried about large companies like X ripping off my work, while I was still focused on getting things like security and privacy right before releasing my agent kit. It's been great seeing claws out in the wild delighting people, makes me think the time is finally right to release my agent kit and let people see what a real personal digital agent looks like in terms of presentation, utility and security. Claws are still thinking too small.
- zhubert 8mo agoThe challenging thing for those of us that have gone around the sun a few times is that…you’re just going to have to figure it out yourself. We can tell you to be cautious or aware of security bullshit, but there’s a current that’s buying Mac Mini’s and you want to be in it. Nothing I can say changes that and as a grown up, you get to roll those dice yourself. 70% of you are going to be fine and encourage others, the rest are going to get pwnd, and that’s how it goes. You’re doing something that decades or prior experience warned you about.
- m00dy 8mo agoHis x post is also written by a claw.
- umairnadeem123 8mo ago[dead]
- sleight42 8mo agoI don't understand why folks are buying Mac Minis specifically for this? Why not repurpose an old existing computer? Run Linux? What am I missing?
- biztos 8mo agoIf you're running local models, Apple Silicon's shared memory architecture makes them much better at it than other similarly-specced platforms. If you want your "skills" to include sending iMessage (quite important in the USA), then you need a Mac of some kind. If you don't care about iMessage and you're just doing API calls for the inference, then it's good old Mass Abundance. Nice excuse to get that cool little Mini you've been wanting.
- correct_horse 8mo agoMac minis are particularly suited to running AI models because they can have a pretty good quantity of RAM (64GB) assigned to the GPU at a reasonable price compared to Nvidia offerings. Mac minis have unified memory which means it can be split between CPU and GPU in a configurable way. I think apple didn’t price mac minis with AI stuff in mind, so they end up being good value.
- sleight42 8mo agoSure but the GPUs are fairly anemic, right? I get that they have more Gpu-addressable memory from the shared pool. I have a 10900K with 65GB RAN and a 3090 24GB VRAM lying around gathering dust. 24GB isn't as much as a Mac but my cores run a whole lot faster. I may be able to run a 34B 4bit quantized model in that. Granted, the mofo will eat a lot of power.
- denkmoon 8mo agoWhere do you get the AI acceleration? Apple Silicon chips are decent AI perf for the price afaiu
- rocmcd 8mo agoThere's no need for (local) AI acceleration if you are leveraging a remote LLM (Claude, ChatGPT, etc). The vast, vast majority of users are most likely just making API calls to a remote service. No need for specialized or beefy hardware.
- wangzhongwang 8mo ago[dead]
- anvevoice 8mo ago[dead]
- anvevoice 8mo ago[dead]
- corndoge 8mo agoI still don't understand what openclaw is or does and i've read the docs multiple times over. "Any OS gateway for AI agents across WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, and more. Send a message, get an agent response from your pocket. Plugins add Mattermost and more." "What is OpenClaw? OpenClaw is a self-hosted gateway that connects your favorite chat apps — WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, iMessage, and more — to AI coding agents like Pi. You run a single Gateway process on your own machine (or a server), and it becomes the bridge between your messaging apps and an always-available AI assistant." https://docs.openclaw.ai https://docs.openclaw.ai My best interpretation of this is that it connects an BYO agent to your messenger client of choice. I don't understand the hype. I already have apps that allow me to message the model server running on my home lab. The model server handles tool calls (ie it is "agentic"). It has RAG over a dataset with a vector search for query. What is new about openclaw? I would like to understand it but what i see people say and what is in the docs do not seem compatible. Anyone have a resource?
- Yiin 8mo agoit's something everyone thought about, few implemented for themselves and now with one of the implementations catching up in popularity for regular-ish people is easy way to have same setup without going through effort of developing one themselves - give it keys and it for the most part just works, whoa
- fud101 8mo agodo you have a hello world we can check out? i'm confused af.
- MillionOClock 8mo agoI'm glad you asked because I must admit that in the last few weeks I totally thought this was just another agentic harness that happened to have a lot of extensions + ways to talk to it through messaging apps. So does this mean OpenClaw can connect to any agent? In that case I don't understand this part of the docs: > Legacy Claude, Codex, Gemini, and Opencode paths have been removed. Pi is the only coding agent path.
- 8mo ago
- vibeprofessor 8mo ago[flagged]
- CMay 8mo agoThis feels like the 2026 version of "blog". A thing that didn't need a name and the name it now has contains "out of touch" qualities to it, but it spread easier under a name that got popularized so it wins out in evolutionary terms? Unlike blog though, claw is camping on an existing word and it won't surprise me if people settle on some other word once a more popular, professional and security conscious variant exists. I don't think operating through messaging services will be considered anything unique, since we've been doing that for over 30 years. The mobile dimension doesn't change this much, except for the difference between always connected and push notifications along with voice convenience being a given. Not using MCP was expected, because even in my personal experiments it was very natural to never adopt MCP. It's true that there are some qualities MCP has that can be useful, but it's extra work and friction that doesn't always pay off. Total access + mobile messaging + real productivity is naturally addictive, and maybe it's logical that the lazy path to this is the first to become popularized, because the harder problems around it are simply ignored.
- javier123454321 8mo agoI do consider it unique to interface with your home lab server or personal vps through a messaging. The first time I did a version of that, I was completely blown away by that concept. I guess I just never thought about being able to talk to my computer in English via chat.
- CMay 7mo agoIf we're talking strictly a messaging app, like ICQ, AIM, etc you could argue it's mildly different, but people have communicated with and orchestrated machines over IRC for a very long time which is where I'm coming from with it. It is fun and feels new the first time you do it, but that aspect of it is not particularly new to computing. Back then of course, you'd interface with some flat text file database, directories, run commands or use raw sockets to scrape some website to get a result. APIs weren't a thing as much as you'd just try to replicate the queries to submit webpage forms. You could have a music server in another room and send a message to pick the next song or open the CD drive on some machine halfway around the world. You could write new scripts that operate on a daily schedule and have them running on machines around the world. Many home computers were totally compromised back then too, so almost anything that was connected to IRC was a potential orchestration node. Having an LLM make decisions about what to do with the machine is a natural evolution of that and not a hard thing to hack on if you have the right model, although it makes totally compromised the new default again.
- vjk800 8mo agoSerious question for early adopters of Claws: what are you using them for? What things do you find them actually useful? Can you give examples of tasks where you actually save time and/or effort using them?
- bool3max 8mo agoFarming interactions on twitter
- WNWceAJ9R9Ezc4 8mo agoSo.. spam?
- enether 8mo agowe will need some sort of payment-block checkmark for use of social media soon enough. This claw phenomenon is opening the floodgates of spam even more than before
- deadbabe 8mo agoI have longed tried to find solid answers to this, these best I can find is basically: 1. Yet another coding assistant (obviously) 2. Documenting stuff (that no one will read anyway) 3. Making reports
- homeboxer26 8mo agoThe hardware deployment angle is worth thinking about here. A "claw" by definition needs to be persistent - always-on, always-connected. That changes the deployment target compared to a typical web app. Most people run these on cloud VMs, which works but has a cost and privacy ceiling. The natural alternative is a low-power always-on device at home (think: the RPi homelab crowd, but for AI agents). 15W idle draws running 24/7 cost less than $20/year in electricity. The naming actually clarifies the hardware requirement in a way "agent" didn't - an agent can be stateless and batch-triggered, but a claw needs to be persistently reachable. That's a different design constraint. Would be curious if anyone's run into issues with consumer ISPs blocking inbound connections for claw-style setups.
- homeboxer26 8mo agoIncidentally, I built something for exactly this use case and just posted it as a Show HN: a mini PC that ships pre-loaded with OpenClaw (an open-source claw runtime) and runs at 15W for always-on deployment. The idea is to remove the friction of "set up a VM, install the framework, keep it running" for people who just want a persistent claw at home. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47109365 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47109365 Happy to discuss the hardware tradeoffs if anyone's gone down this path.
- Alex_L_Wood 8mo agoWhy does everything related to AI have to have such awful names? It’s as if everything is named to be as annoying as possible.
- flimflamm 8mo agoI just don't trust "the claw" so I build following system - Docker 1: * Locked up Claw docker - user level priv. Access outside to "one port" only. - Docker 2: * Tool gateway with pre-baked commands - openclaw can only index what command to execute * Keys are here * Telegram hook to approve all "post" commands i.e. sending email or posting something somewhere. - Docker 3: * LLM gateway keeping track of cost and routing
- lwhi 8mo agoSo you need to approve all actions that actually do something, individually?
- makerofthings 8mo agoI'll give it 6 months, if these things are still important then and have stabilised a bit then I'll take a look. AI tools are a bit frothy at the moment and you can waste a lot of time keep jumping onto the latest thing.
- rktzah 8mo agoGackle got orders to suppress all criticism or even questioning public figures. How does it feel to censor our way into AI dystopia? How much do they pay you?
- elzbardico 8mo agoSince his times at Tesla, Karpathy, despite his talents, has always been a industrial hype bullshit generator.
- game_the0ry 8mo agoI work at a company that is forcing us to use AI as much as possible for our coding work. I did 1 month's of work in 1 day last week. A few hiccups, but the slop works as expected. From where I sit, the hype is real.
- elzbardico 8mo agoWell, roughly half developers are below the average. LLM code is good enough for them, but now such developers can add technical debt faster. Sorry, but if you don't see the issues with the code LLM generates....
- game_the0ry 7mo agoI will let a principal of engineering at google do the talking for me: > I'm not joking and this isn't funny. We have been trying to build distributed agent orchestrators at Google since last year. There are various options, not everyone is aligned... I gave Claude Code a description of the problem, it generated what we built last year in an hour. src: https://x.com/rakyll/status/2007239758158975130 https://x.com/rakyll/status/2007239758158975130
- enether 7mo agoexactly. i posted about the same thing today https://x.com/twitter/status/2025949280251597291 https://x.com/twitter/status/2025949280251597291 It's an accelerant, both good and bad. How that plays out in companies where the majority are below-average is a nuanced and concerning case
- 1970-01-01 8mo agoNew layer, new failure mechanism.
- gregman1 8mo agoKarpathy is now a new layer on top of AI hype.
- amelius 8mo agoThis entire concept will at some point be just part of the OS. Allowing it to control everything on your PC, but integrated with the rest of your system. With permission controls. I'd be surprised if the OS vendors are not already playing with the idea and have working prototypes.
- ithkuil 8mo agoHas anybody implemented a Human Control Protocol, where a model can interact with a human as if it was a tool call?
- yencabulator 7mo agohttps://marshallbrain.com/manna https://marshallbrain.com/manna
- fennecbutt 8mo agoGotta say I haven't seen anything relevant from "top AI" people in a while now. I think as soon as you get involved in the MBA C level world of finance and shareholders then your life as a scientist is over. It's now all just self marketing. I suppose we'd all do the same...
- Havoc 7mo agoWell I guess all those llamaguard style safety models and similar finally have a consumer use. Pricey though if you need to run everything though models twice
- blakec 7mo agoI built one of these by accident over two months on Claude Code. ~15,000 lines of hooks, skills, and agents. I never set out to build an orchestration layer. I fixed one problem (stop the model from suggesting OpenAI). Then another (inject date and project context). Then another (catch credentials in tool calls). Then the solutions started stepping on each other, so I built dispatchers. Then dispatchers needed shared state. Then state needed quality gates. By the time Karpathy named the concept, my setup already looked like this. "Just existing tech repackaged" is accurate and beside the point. Dropbox was just rsync repackaged. The value is in how it comes together, not the individual pieces. What's actually missing that nobody's built yet: declarative workflow definitions. Everything I have is imperative bash. Want to change the order something runs? Edit a 1,300-line script. A real Claws system would define workflows as data and interpret them.