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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

• redeeman 9mo ago
  of course cloudflare deplatformed some without any court involved. it would be a whole lot more honest if they had not shown their true colors
• skilled 9mo ago
  https://xcancel.com/eastdakota/status/2009654937303896492 https://xcancel.com/eastdakota/status/2009654937303896492
  • fnord123 9mo ago
    [flagged]
  • Aeolun 9mo ago
    Thanks. I was looking for that at the top, but had to scroll down all the way here to find it.
• nektro 9mo ago
  some good takes in this response but complementing jd and elon was absolutely not necessary
  • hn_go_brrrrr 9mo ago
    He's just sucking up to them to get them to act on his behalf.
  • bflesch 9mo ago
    One must be thankful to him for removing the illusion that Cloudflare is some benevolent, neutral US company fighting for a more secure internet. My risk acceptance is not big enough to have all Cloudflare-secured websites in my country to go offline just because someone from my country has a Twitter fight with a member of the US administration or with the Cloudflare leadership.
    • blibble 9mo ago
      > One must be thankful to him for removing the illusion that Cloudflare is some benevolent, neutral US company fighting for a more secure internet. yeah it's great isn't it now all anyone has to do to discredit cloudflare is point to their CEO's pro-elon posts the AI slop picture at the bottom really sells it too
  • HDThoreaun 9mo ago
    It was necessary to get them to take action. The only thing the current administration cares about is public image so publicly fellating them is what you need to do to get them to go to bat on your behalf.
    • jacquesm 9mo ago
      He runs a private company, not a government institution and I'm sure they can pay a lawyer to sue the Italian entity if it displeases him so much. Like everybody else would.
  • Pedro_Ribeiro 9mo ago
    When did Hacker News start talking like Reddit?
• andy99 9mo ago
  I don’t know the backstory but Cloudflare arguing for an open internet is super ironic, presumably he means they want the be the one to close it off and are upset that someone else is ruining their monopoly on it.
  • k4rli 9mo ago
    Definitely getting that vibe. Also praising M*sk and USA leadership clearly points to only having his business interests in mind. Feels like engagement bait for attention seeking. No doubt they'll still keep the Olympics contracts as they are.
    • adrr 9mo ago
      1.1.1.1 DNS is just querying root DNS servers. And @elon.jet twitter account was just querying ADS data and posting it. Its exactly same, yet this guy praises Elon.
      • bflesch 9mo ago
        DNS lookups via 1.1.1.1 are also directly fed into the US surveillance state so peter thiel can use his palantir dashboard to see if you are the antichrist or not.
        • jacquesm 9mo ago
          I'm sure he has a mirror lying around somewhere?
    • rib3ye 9mo ago
      Is agreeing with an adversary on a single point the same as praising them?
      • jimnotgym 9mo ago
        Interesting choice of words to try and make the logic sound ok. Try: 'Is praising an adversary on a single issue the same as praising them'. Yes, yes it is
• adrr 9mo ago
  Elon Musk the bastion of free speech who famously banned a twitter account that posted publicly available information.
  • s-y 9mo ago
    Musk is a contrarian. He, however, is not a government body (nor does he represent one, u can choose to include the dubious Doge efforts into the discussion but that will devolve into semantics that do not negate the point). As a private citizen with a platform for which he overpaid - he can do as he pleases within the confines of said platform. Musk, however, cannot enforce fines on other providers and request stuff from them. This is what the post is about.
    • testdelacc1 9mo ago
      He can do whatever he wants on that platform. Equally, can elected officials decide to ban that private platform?
      • s-y 9mo ago
        Again, apples and oranges. Private citizens vs government. Musk has no power given to him by someone, the government does, using that power in a way that might be considered abusive/authoritarian might yield (deserved) backlash. I'm not sure if I'm not getting something. It's a for-profit organization vs a government entity. It's not even remotely similar.
  • littlestymaar 9mo ago
    One? Elon banned thousands after he took over. He event went as far as personally canceling a Tesla customer's order for criticizing him. That's how petty he is. He has no interest in freedom of speech whatsoever, it's merely a talking point.
    • ilc 9mo ago
      I disagree. Freedom of Speech guarantees the right to speak. Not the right to have no repercussions. Elon has GREAT interest in Freedom of Speech, it enables him to have far more power than regulating the type of "speech" he showed in cancelling that customer's order.
• thrance 9mo ago
  > I appreciate @JDVance taking a leadership role in recognizing this type of regulation is a fundamental unfair trade issue that also threatens democratic values. And in this case @ElonMusk is right: #FreeSpeech is critical and under attack from an out-of-touch cabal of very disturbed European policy makers. Pretending to take a principled stand against censorship but then randomly throwing flowers to two of the biggest threats to freedom of expression is deeply hypocritical, and makes it really hard to take his reaction seriously. And let's not forget that really vile AI image that is sure to alienate all Italians against Cloudflare.
  • testdelacc1 9mo ago
    He knows the only way he wins this is if the current US Administration goes to bat for him.
    • ben_w 9mo ago
      At this point, I'm wondering to what extent all this batting is driving the EU calls for digital sovereignty, and to what extent those calls will be turned into actions.
      • tjwebbnorfolk 9mo ago
        EU is extremely good at "calling for" things to happen. I haven't seen a single one of those things actually happen.
      • wmf 9mo ago
        EU can't build so if they firewall themselves from the US they'll just have a pretty empty Internet.
        • ben_w 9mo ago
          The other night I was thinking about graphene. Not the OS, the material. ‘We considered patenting; we prepared a patent and it was nearly filed. Then I had an interaction with a big, multinational electronics company. I approached a guy at a conference and said, “We’ve got this patent coming up, would you be interested in sponsoring it over the years?” It’s quite expensive to keep a patent alive for 20 years. The guy told me, “We are looking at graphene, and it might have a future in the long term. If after ten years we find it’s really as good as it promises, we will put a hundred patent lawyers on it to write a hundred patents a day, and you will spend the rest of your life, and the gross domestic product of your little island, suing us.” That’s a direct quote.' - https://innovationedge.com/2010/10/13/graphene-patent-geim/ https://innovationedge.com/2010/10/13/graphene-patent-geim/ So, we absolutely can get stuff done, the Americans just keep buying us up (DeepMind) or stealing it or using initimidation (Graphene) or espionage (of Airbus for benefit of Boeing way back).
• deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
• joduplessis 9mo ago
  Really like the forthrightness.
• bflesch 9mo ago
  Not a good look on that guy to list his "pro-bono" services and threaten to pull them while asking JD Vance for his help. How is he expecting the Milano-Cortina 2026 Winter Olympics to influence some representative of media right holders who have fined Cloudflare? Is he assuming that just because all of the listed things are Italian they can just make the fine go away?
  • Hikikomori 9mo ago
    Was with him in the first part, then wtf. Vance and the others dont stand for free speech either, it's only their own speech that matters and they'll proudly ban anything else.
  • everfrustrated 9mo ago
    It seems the panel that fined him is politically appointed so seems reasonable to reach for politics to attempt to fight/resolve it.
    • oaiey 9mo ago
      The panel is backed by a law. Respect the law. Italy has a judicial system and in cases like this, probably some EU court could be also called. US politicians can reach out to EU/Italian politics to harmonize trade... But wait, do not we kill trade deals. They are so unfair (aka. compromises)
  • wmf 9mo ago
    Politics tends to work that way.
  • grayhatter 9mo ago
    He replies to an Italian user > We can’t offer free services in a country that fines us millions unreasonably. Fix your government or lose access to our charity. On one hand, I agree with you, it's problematic to threaten collective punishment. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to "divest" from a country trying to fine you for behavior outside of said country. It's also important to communicate that clearly, and unfortunately bluntly. Did you have a different expectation or suggestion for what they should do?
• Arbortheus 9mo ago
  I agree with the CEO, while also feeling a bit nauseous at the MAGA Musk suck-up at the end - I suppose this is the game you have to play with this current administration.
  • deadbabe 9mo ago
    It really doesn’t matter what administration is in charge, at a certain level you have to curry favor with whatever administration is in power and hold your true motives close to your chest. People seem to think what people say in public is perfect knowledge of their true intentions. No. What they say is what they want someone to hear them say. There is nothing to gain by saying what you really feel, no one can prove it’s what you really feel anyway.
    • ben_w 9mo ago
      Yup. Plenty of activists on the other side of the spectrum note of "greenwashing" and "pinkwashing", nice words about the environment or LGBT+ rights without any noticeable action beyond adding a temporary pride badge to social media accounts in pride month or a picture of a wind turbine on their website.
    • miltonlost 9mo ago
      You really don't have to praise fascists.
    • NewJazz 9mo ago
      Yeah well nobody glazed Biden or Kamala's dicks that hard.
      • jacquesm 9mo ago
        In at least half those cases I can see why. Maybe choose your metaphors a bit more classy?
        • NewJazz 9mo ago
• grayhatter 9mo ago
  I do appreciate reading a PR, from a CEO, that's not unsalvageably tone deaf. At the first half, I was wondering what the point of this was, given if Italy thinks this is something they're allowed to apply across the globe. That instantly makes this a political issue they probably need to be talking to the State Department about. Then I got to the 2nd half, and was impressed that I wasn't immediately annoyed by the ass kissing. I assume Cloudflare has a great PR team because this feels like a master class in rhetoric. Given how you're expected to solicit help these days. Rhetoric aside, it'll be interesting to see how the whole thing plays out. Italy seems to have taken out a hammer, and their d.... well, I'm just gonna hope the Internet wins this one.
  • pavel_lishin 9mo ago
    > was impressed that I wasn't immediately annoyed by any ass kissing. Did it only annoy you after reading it again?
    • dandellion 9mo ago
      He should be careful, a third reading and he might start to enjoy it.
    • grayhatter 9mo ago
      No? In a disagreement with Italy, cloudflare is definitely going to need the intervention of the US administration. This (angry Twitter post) is how you're expected to ask for help in this timeline. I was expecting to annoyed with the faux allegiance. But here, I think they communicated their distain over the behavior as best as they could, while still asking for help. I might not like it, but I understand it. Equally, I might be wrong; but this feels to me like the post tries to as subtly as possible communicate that they have problems with the administration (my expectations for anyone who is at all ethical) While still also needing their help. And if I'm wildly incorrect; and cloudflare is actually in love with the administration, then it's still a master class in rhetoric, because they tricked me, which was probably the point?
  • Dansvidania 9mo ago
• alpb 9mo ago
  censor from the Internet any sites a shadowy cabal of European media elites deemed against their interests Has he recently gone full conspiracy theorist? (Also what's that cringy chatgpt picture supposed to tell us?) Who is the shadowy cabal of EU elites? If anything EU is purely politicians obedient to USA interests. I'm guessing this is what happens in tech when the tide starts to shift, because tech doesn't have morals, it's all just about money. Start praising the new administration no matter what they do, until they're not popular and start praising the next thing. Looking forward to his back-to-woke pivot in 2 years.
  • Almondsetat 9mo ago
    He contradicts himself in the span of a single sentence. How is it possible that this was done solely by Italy (with concerns from the rest of the EU) and yet this is the work of a cabal of European media elites? If this were true, why isn't the entire EU involved?
    • ben_w 9mo ago
      That's not really a self-contradiction; if we pretend the USA's copyright lobby had made California pass a similar law… well, that might not work, I have no idea if that would be unconstitutional inter-state trade restriction or something in the USA, but for the sake of showing why it's not a self-contradiction can we pretend? If the US media elites had convinced California to do that, they'd be a "shadowy cabal of [US] media elites", even if there was opposition from the rest of the USA. Again, don't read too much into if this would actually work in the USA, the EU is not the USA, this isn't that kind of comment.
      • bflesch 9mo ago
        It's not that long ago that US media conglomerates used MPAA to threaten Sweden to remove piratebay?
        • ben_w 9mo ago
          Sure, but Sweden isn't in the US so I don't see that illustrating anything in this analogy.
• oytis 9mo ago
  Rhetoric is somewhat off, but I have to use 1.1.1.1 to access Anna's Archive from Germany, so he has a point.
  • sammy2255 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    • simianparrot 9mo ago
      Don't worry, this time it's the Social Democrats who ban books, it's _totally_ different.
      • undeveloper 9mo ago
        Most western countries who care about IP have banned piracy. I'm not anti piracy but it's silly to compare.
        • bflesch 9mo ago
          Back in the day it was US media companies which started the big war against piracy and for the use of DRM. It was pushed by US media companies and the US government upon Europe. Same as with software patents. It's weird that now US companies complain about local media rights holders doing their censorship thing when the whole thing was started by the US.
          • oytis 9mo ago
            I'm not sure, does US not block websites by DNS? Wrt Anna's Archive they've gone as far as revoking its main domain
            • bflesch 9mo ago
              US owns the registrars, they just deregister domains they don't like and show some sort of FBI logo instead.
• sammy2255 9mo ago
  [flagged]
• R_Spaghetti 9mo ago
  Another reason to dump an american big tech firm and switch to Bunny.net for example. Better a democratic based error than an american greed based CEO.
• anticristi 9mo ago
  This is great news! Who would have expected Cloudflare to truly contribute to EU digital sovereignty. On a more serious note, I'm surprised Cloudflare wants to pull out of Italy. Being a company which terminates TLS connections for Italy must be a gold mine for the NSA.
  • bflesch 9mo ago
    Yes, it is good for Europe that US tech leadership comes out in the open and share their twitter ramblings, so nobody can deny that their interests are not aligned with us.
  • linkregister 9mo ago
    Cloudflare and other US tech companies base business decisions on revenue (and apparently on emotion), not allegiance to government agencies that have fallen out of fashion.
    • jimnotgym 9mo ago
      The NSA don't pay?
    • oaiey 9mo ago
      A bit naive concerning the leaks of 15 years ago. NSA cooperation with big tech is very well known.
  • halapro 9mo ago
    Claiming to and following through are two different actions, lots can happen between the two.
• Dotnaught 9mo ago
  By "shadowy cabal of European media elites," is Prince referring to elected Italian officials? What have they asked Cloudflare to ban?
  • IncreasePosts 9mo ago
    The driving force behind this is getting pirated streams of football matches knocked offline. Currently by the time any action is taken the match is over, which is why they want the response-within-30-minutes.
  • sva_ 9mo ago
    No. To private entities (news outlets) who, according to this law, get to decide what websites to ban without a court order or any due process
    • bflesch 9mo ago
      The exact same thing is implemented in Germany already (DNS-level block), and I did not see Cloudflare CEO rage posting on Twitter about it.
      • hn_go_brrrrr 9mo ago
        Has Germany tried to fine Cloudflare over it?
      • sva_ 9mo ago
        I'm in Germany and Cloudflare DNS doesn't Block eg Annas Archive for me, while my ISP does. I also don't reckon Germany tried to fine Cloudflare yet. So what is your point?
      • bigbuppo 9mo ago
        "you must block things in germany after it goes through a formal government process" versus "you must block things globally even for places not subject to italian law because an italian media company doesn't like it" There's more than a subtle difference betweeen the two.
• iamnothere 9mo ago
  In case people can’t/don’t want to read something on X, here is the statement: Yesterday a quasi-judicial body in Italy fined @Cloudflare $17 million for failing to go along with their scheme to censor the Internet. The scheme, which even the EU has called concerning, required us within a mere 30 minutes of notification to fully censor from the Internet any sites a shadowy cabal of European media elites deemed against their interests. No judicial oversight. No due process. No appeal. No transparency. It required us to not just remove customers, but also censor our 1.1.1.1 DNS resolver meaning it risked blacking out any site on the Internet. And it required us not just to censor the content in Italy but globally. In other words, Italy insists a shadowy, European media cabal should be able to dictate what is and is not allowed online. That, of course, is DISGUSTING and even before yesterday’s fine we had multiple legal challenges pending against the underlying scheme. We, of course, will now fight the unjust fine. Not just because it’s wrong for us but because it is wrong for democratic values. In addition, we are considering the following actions: 1) discontinuing the millions of dollars in pro bono cyber security services we are providing the upcoming Milano-Cortina Olympics; 2) discontinuing Cloudflare’s Free cyber security services for any Italy-based users; 3) removing all servers from Italian cities; and 4) terminating all plans to build an Italian Cloudflare office or make any investments in the country. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. While there are things I would handle differently than the current U.S. administration, I appreciate @JDVance taking a leadership role in recognizing this type of regulation is a fundamental unfair trade issue that also threatens democratic values. And in this case @ElonMusk is right: #FreeSpeech is critical and under attack from an out-of-touch cabal of very disturbed European policy makers. I will be in DC first thing next week to discuss this with U.S. administration officials and I’ll be meeting with the IOC in Lausanne shortly after to outline the risk to the Olympic Games if @Cloudflare withdraws our cyber security protection. In the meantime, we remain happy to discuss this with Italian government officials who, so far, have been unwilling to engage beyond issuing fines. We believe Italy, like all countries, has a right to regulate the content on networks inside its borders. But they must do so following the Rule of Law and principles of Due Process. And Italy certainly has no right to regulate what is and is not allowed on the Internet in the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, China, Brazil, India or anywhere outside its borders. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT FIGHT AND WE WILL WIN!!!
  • 9mo ago
• npodbielski 9mo ago
  "EU shadow cabal" funny considering that he then mentions running for help to US politicians.
  • renewiltord 9mo ago
    If there were an EU shadow cabal who exactly would you run to help for? When Bonasera’s daughter is assaulted and the perpetrators released, he goes to Don Corleone. That makes sense. It’s not funny or ironic that he turns to criminals to help with criminals. You need power to counter power.
    • 9dev 9mo ago
      What an absurd twisting of reality this is. There is no EU shadow cabal, as opposed to the very real not-so-shadowy cabal currently running the USA. Where the EU is concerned with a rule-based order, justice, and fair conditions, the US administration engages in open corruption, cronyism, and outright rule by force. The CEO of an American company complaining about the unfair treatment in Europe is more than ridiculous.
  • 0xy 9mo ago
    Probably because the admin has been vocal and proactive about extraterritorial overreach by European countries hellbent on global censorship programs. The UK has thrown thousands of people in jail for speech on social media, as has Germany. Both of those countries also attempt to censor speech OUTSIDE of their own countries too. https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/2025/12/announcement-of-actions-to-combat-the-global-censorship-industrial-complex https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/20...
    • hermanzegerman 9mo ago
      There are no "European Global Censorship Programs". Maybe try to get your information elsewhere than Fox News (based on the Nonsense in all your recent comments)
• elAhmo 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  • t8sr 9mo ago
    I read the tweet twice and I don’t see any mention of free speech. What he’s describing, when you look past the rhetoric, sounds ridiculous: a single medium sized country is demanding power to institute global blocks of content on the internet? If that’s an accurate description, that’s deeply concerning for the long term viability of the internet.
    • bflesch 9mo ago
      I cannot believe this is the first time that Cloudflare has been confronted by a local government which asked to perform "global" filtering of content. It is clear for anyone who has worked with bureaucrats that their "global" means "within our jurisdiction". It is extremely weird that he feels emboldened to publicly lash out like this and pull in people who are extremely unpopular in Europe.
      • rpdillon 9mo ago
        You keep saying this, but 'global' has never meant 'in my jurisdiction' in any conversation or document I've ever read. What additional information can you provide the confirms your interpretation is correct?
    • miltonlost 9mo ago
      Read the tweet a 3rd time. Free Speech is mentioned in Paragraph 4 when he's thanking Vance and Musk. It's highlighted in Blue. It's a Hashtag.
    • tacker2000 9mo ago
      He is mentioning Vance and Musk as beacons of democracy and free speech.
      • 0xy 9mo ago
• Foxboron 9mo ago
  So blocking Kiwifarms took.. months of activism and loud complaining. Heraled by Matthew as "this is an extraordinary decision for us to make and, given Cloudflare's role as an Internet infrastructure provider, a dangerous one that we are not comfortable with". However a fine that amounts to ~0.7% of the annual revenue and they threaten to block an entire country?
  • simianparrot 9mo ago
    How do you not understand the difference..?
  • renewiltord 9mo ago
    Yeah that makes sense to me. If you come up to me and say “you have to arrest that guy; he’s stealing from me” I have to do a lot of research to make sure that everything is correct. On the other hand, if I see you steal from me, I don’t have to do a lot of research. I am a first party to the thing. I can be sure. It’s the difference between a policeman arriving on the scene of an assault and someone actually assaulting the policeman. The acting party being the affected party simplifies things because you know you’re not a “confused deputy”.
  • ExpertAdvisor01 9mo ago
    Actually, the fine amounts to over 200% of Italy-sourced revenue ($17 million fine vs. $8 million in revenue in 2024). Why would you continue doing business in Italy?
    • Foxboron 9mo ago
      They are a conglomerate and per Matthews words "an internet infrastructure provider". Why does the local revenue matter when they are serving a global market? EDIT: And fwiw, "Why would you continue doing business in Italy?" is not what is being proposed. They are threatening to block 55 million people from ~20% of the world wide web.
      • ExpertAdvisor01 9mo ago
• alanfranz 9mo ago
  Italian here. If somebody wants to read the full document about the fine (in italian) it's here: https://www.agcom.it/sites/default/files/provvedimenti/delibera/2026/Delibera%20333_25_CONS_Cloudflare_Ordinanza%20Ingiunzione_CLEAN_per%20pubblicazione.pdf https://www.agcom.it/sites/default/files/provvedimenti/delib... Part of this doc states: ``` The rights holders also declared, under their own responsibility, providing certified documentary evidence of the current nature of the unlawful conduct, that the reported domain names and IP addresses were unequivocally intended to infringe the copyright and related rights of the audiovisual works relating to live broadcast sporting events and similar events covered by the reports. ``` So, I'm not sure anybody verified that what the right holders claimed was actually true. While I understand what AGCOM (the italian FCC, more-or-less) is trying to do, it seems that, as usual, a law was created without verifying how the implementation of such law would work in practice (something very common in Italy), and this is the result. Cloudflare CEO seems irate, and some of his references are not great, but I'd be inclined at thinking he's got at least _some_ reason on his side.
  • bflesch 9mo ago
    I also wonder why he felt emboldened to escalate like this. Maybe he thinks Italy is so small it can be slapped around by a rage post on Twitter? There's a DNS blocklist from media industry applied by German ISPs and I assume Cloudflare was also asked to block these websites, so why didn't I read a story about Cloudflare making a big stir about the German DNS blocking?
    • cubefox 9mo ago
      If the German filters only apply to ISPs in Germany, they have no effect on users in foreign countries. Moreover, Cloudflare is obviously not an ISP.
      • bflesch 9mo ago
        Do you think the Italian bureaucrats really want to ban something in France or Germany? The Cloudflare CEO is clearly misinterpreting something that was lost in translation, which is the bureaucrats stating "Cloudflare must prevent access to XY from everywhere". For bureaucrats "everywhere" means "in my jurisdiction". I cannot believe that the Cloudflare CEO is trying to nitpick around a single word that he so clearly misinterprets.
• renewiltord 9mo ago
  Makes sense to me. Italy is going to fine them. Then Italy can build their own service.
• deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
• deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
• cubefox 9mo ago
  More information: > Italy’s communications regulator AGCOM imposed a record-breaking €14.2 million fine on Cloudflare after the company failed to implement the required piracy blocking measures. Cloudflare argued that filtering its global 1.1.1.1 DNS resolver would be "impossible" without hurting overall performance. AGCOM disagreed, noting that Cloudflare is not necessarily a neutral intermediary either. [...] https://torrentfreak.com/italy-fines-cloudflare-e14-million-for-refusing-to-filter-pirate-sites-on-public-1-1-1-1-dns/ https://torrentfreak.com/italy-fines-cloudflare-e14-million-...
• janlucien 9mo ago
  [dead]
• exceptione 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  • renewiltord 9mo ago
    Italy is much more powerful than Cloudflare is. The only sensible thing for him to do is to rush to who will protect him. If the Italian authorities would protect him from capricious use of DNS blocking requests from La Liga or Serie A or whoever he would rather go there but they won’t. It’s an old story. You make a guy’s life hard and the next thing you know he’s working with your enemies even though he’d rather be free. He has no choice. He’s powerless on his own.
    • bflesch 9mo ago
      Other people run to their lawyers, and he runs to Musk and Vance.
    • exceptione 9mo ago
      Your context window is too small, you ignored all my input. Besides, I hope this isn't yet a minority stance on here, a democratic state is hopefully more powerful than a company, yes, indeed. The mode of a state captured by the biggest enterprises isn't really something we should run to, right? What mr. twitter account could have done is vent all his outrage, without normalizing all that other shit. Then he has media attention and most likely some public debate, unlike many other sufferers whose life are less interesting. And you know what? The people could have found that he had a point! He could have triggered some further debate in parliament, some adjustment from the law makers. You know, the usual, normal way of respecting the rule of law, especially when you heavily disagree with one aspect of it. Because that is what is meant by participating in what we call democracy. I am sorry for my lack of sugar coating, but man do I get upset by the normalization of anti-democratic thinking here.
      • arjie 9mo ago
        Sports organizations in most countries have widespread latitude that are afforded to few other companies. Whether this is crony capitalism or simply protecting one of the largest domestic industries, Italy will likely side with the industry that is responsible for 0.5% of their GDP over some foreigner who can easily be justified as trying to spread piracy. It’s hard to honestly believe that this is some democracy vs corporation war. At best it is two corporation groups (a powerful Italian sports and broadcasting one and a weak US tech one) attempting to recruit state power (respectively the powerful Italy vs. the much more powerful US) to their cause. European nations also have a long and storied history of communications control and they haven’t really changed very much on that front (as recent Chat Control attempts have shown). It will be unsurprising that they exercise their muscle to practice before they do so for a significant event. Naturally, any proponent of such schemes will gladly hope that organizations affected use ineffective means. In general, I prefer that my opponents also don’t harm me and instead fail to achieve their goals. It’s pretty natural to ask others to play by some rules while simultaneously choosing to add escape hatches for oneself. As an example from a different sphere: Russia, having invaded Crimea, preferred a peaceful end to the war and that Ukraine respond not militarily but through ineffective diplomatic overtures to other countries. One always wants others to follow norms while being free to not do so oneself. That usually helps one win. Wrapping such isolated demands for rigor in polemic is a sufficiently standard strategy that it’s identifiable as such.
• easyThrowaway 9mo ago
  The interesting part is that neither the AGCOM nor Cloudflare quite understand how each other really work. Also they both believe they got more leeway than they truly have. AGCOM is an institutional apparatus, they operate separately, but not independently, from whatever leftwing or rightwing government in charge for the most part (past Berlusconian interests aside) and everything they do is entirely subject to not getting out of the guidelines imposed by the EU, no matter what they want anyone else to believe. Frankly the best course of action for Cloudflare would be getting in touch with the Board of European Regulation pointing them out that AGCOM is, probably for the hundreth time I guess, overstepping their authority. And they should stop right there, otherwise they're the ones that will be actually fined.
  • bflesch 9mo ago
    Well put. Several nuances are most likely lost in translation. Nevertheless the Cloudflare CEO took it as an opportunity to out himself as a buffoon and harming Cloudflare's international reputation.
    • easyThrowaway 9mo ago
      They clearly have way more in common than expected. Hell, I think AGCOM will probably rescind the fine for the sole reason they found out someone who's taking them seriously for the first time.
• robinhood 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  • epolanski 9mo ago
    Can't find any, what's the point of witch hunting?
  • klez 9mo ago
    Are we reading the same comments here? Am I missing anything specific? Can you please point out a couple I may have not seen?
  • heraldgeezer 9mo ago
    Ok.
• gkoz 9mo ago
  A person praising Vance and Musk obviously doesn't value due process, judicial oversight and ultimately decency.
  • financetechbro 9mo ago
    His argument of “free speech” has zero meaning when “shouting out” JDV and Elon. What a joke of a CEO
  • selfmodruntime 9mo ago
    And yet this is the only thing people seem to focus on in a discussion about a government agency without any of those attributes.
  • goshx 9mo ago
    I agree. Musk calls for "free speech" while censoring his own AI and manipulating elections. There goes my respect for this CEO.
    • Hamuko 9mo ago
      Maybe the free speech he was thinking of was Grok dressing people in microbikinis. I think that's Elon's favourite free speech too.
  • Dylan16807 9mo ago
    Please don't make everything into us versus them. Also that paragraph is very critical as far as praise goes.
    • NicuCalcea 9mo ago
      > don't make everything into us versus them Why not? There are real people out there who wish us harm, are we supposed to just take it?
      • Dylan16807 9mo ago
• danielspace23 9mo ago
  I'm Italian, and as much as I think Piracy Shield shouldn't exist, I find hard to empathize with Cloudflare, especially after this tweet. First off, the immediate appeal to Vance and Musk is embarrassing. I believe he knows he's technically in the wrong for not abiding to the law, so gathering the sympathy of the "freedom fighters" of the web is all he can do. But the funniest part about this tweet are the "threats" he makes towards Italy. > In addition, we are considering the following actions: > ... > discontinuing Cloudflare’s Free cyber security services for any Italy-based users He phrases it to be as if the free tier is a favor Cloudflare does to the world, as if it's not obviously a loss-leader designed to get more people into the Cloudflare ecosystem. > Removing all servers from Italian cities This is my favorite by far. Does he think that this will start a popular uprising? My take is that when Italian customers notice their ping going up by 10x because all their traffic is now routed through France, they will switch to BunnyCDN, Fastly or any of the dozens of CDNs that do have servers in Italy. In this political climate, Cloudflare siding with the current administration's general line of "we're Americans, our economy is strong so we're above international law" sends a message I don't think they fully understand. I hope this ends up as being a push for independent European cloud.
  • codingcodingboy 9mo ago
    What happens when BunnyCDN finds itself in the same situation?
    • blibble 9mo ago
      I suspect they'll follow the law and do what the court says rather than pleading to their feudal masters on twitter and threatening to throw their toys out of the pram
      • HelloMcFly 9mo ago
        > I suspect they'll follow the law and do what the court says Which, to me, seems like a clearly worse outcome? I hate the feudal masters more than most on HN, if that somehow matters for the credibility of my own opinion.
• TIPSIO 9mo ago
  List the sites they want offline'd, @eastdakota?
  • wmf 9mo ago
    I think the pirates are using fast flux so the list of sites changes daily or hourly.
• vander_elst 9mo ago
  Why cannot cloudlflare just apply a filter to the incoming requests and if the IP is belongs to am Italian AS they just drop it?
  • jacquesm 9mo ago
    And if they can, can they please add my IP to that list as well.
• wrxd 9mo ago
  I think the fine is wrong, but the attempt to weaponise JD Vance and Elon Musk doesn’t look well at all. The next time they see something they don’t like hosted/protected by Cloudflare they will only have to ask more or less nicely and there is a good chance Cloudflare will handle it for them
• m00dy 9mo ago
  looks like, he didn't pay enough for bribes
• pannolino 9mo ago
  I am just translating this from https://www.agcom.it/sites/default/files/provvedimenti/delibera/2026/Delibera%20333_25_CONS_Cloudflare_Ordinanza%20Ingiunzione_CLEAN_per%20pubblicazione.pdf https://www.agcom.it/sites/default/files/provvedimenti/delib.... "In its memoirs, Cloudflare also states that its services: “do not give rise to the transmission of content on the websites of service users; [...] do not allow Cloudflare to know, control, or modify in any way the content of the websites, which always remains available on a third-party web server regardless of its services.”" :))) > In addition, we are considering the following actions: > ... > discontinuing Cloudflare’s Free cyber security services for any Italy-based users
• philip1209 9mo ago
  "Show me the incentive, and I'll show you the outcome." - Charlie Munger
• eur0pa 9mo ago
  Another C-suite having a meltdown because their self-perceived power is not ubiquitous
• languagehacker 9mo ago
  For the first couple of paragraphs, I almost agreed with this dope. Thought he was a moderate on the wrong side of things after the next couple of paragraphs, and after the AI-generated anime picture, I'm pretty sure the guy is a groyper.
• Smortaxen 9mo ago
  This tweet is unhinged and disappointing. Another techbro billionaire. I've sold what little stock I had in Cloudflare and will be moving off their services.
  • asgeesg 9mo ago
    [dead]
• prettygood 9mo ago
  Damn, that’s a pretty disappointing statement. Some parts are correct but then he goes completely overboard. After everything that has been happening the past year with the new administration it’s hard to keep supporting this as a European. Will move our startup from Cloudflare.
• orthecreedence 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  • brcmthrowaway 9mo ago
    Soon?
• drcongo 9mo ago
  I was nodding along in agreement until he inserted his tongue into Musk and Vance. A little bit of sick came up.
• linkregister 9mo ago
  It is banal to observe that an agency of a government can act orthogonally to another, and also the citizens of the country. I have noticed a trend post-2020 of a higher level of emotionality and impulsive thinking among government and business leaders in the United States. Hopefully thermostatic opinion engages and this trend reverses.
• 1vuio0pswjnm7 9mo ago
  Cloudflare CEO threatens to pull out of Italy and to stop offering free "cybersecurity" to its residents Would this mean Italian websites would be free from Cloudflare "bot protection" or whatever marketing name is used for those annoying "Checking your internet connection..." interstitials
  • stickfigure 9mo ago
    Sure, at least the ones that survive DDoS attacks will be.
    • 2478238434780 9mo ago
      [dead]
    • luke5441 9mo ago
      They can use an European alternative like bunny.net. It's cheaper anyway.
  • pred_ 9mo ago
    One thing it should mean is that anyone using Cloudflare is doing so while risking that its CEO suddenly pulls the rug and closes down the service; not a dependency you want in your stack, and not a great look for a service that's supposed to be usable as a stable high-availability one.
    • Aeolun 9mo ago
      I’m sure they’d give you several month to migrate off (and make noise to your government). I can honestly see why you’d want to stop giving stuff for free to people taking your money.
  • jeroenhd 9mo ago
    The alternative to the "checking your internet connection" page for many websites is either "508 Resource Limit Is Reached", "Please click all the boxes with traffic lights", or no website at all. They're not there to bully you, they're there to protect websites from abuse.
• ed_blackburn 9mo ago
  That's an epic polemic. If the cost of operating in Italy isn't profitable, exit Italy. If it is, then adhere to the laws of Italy. If Italy makes the cost of business too high they'll dial it back.
• gibbsnich 9mo ago
  If american corps do not want to play according to European rules: go ahead, just stop doing business in Europe. Europe will be fine! Understand that there are other things than the US‘s commercial interests even though it seems ATM that’s everything the US is: commercial interests. On the east, on the west: Wake up!
  • betaby 9mo ago
    > Europe will be fine! Unfortunately, no. Europe is not fine and won't be fine anytime soon. CloudFlare's situation is one of the cases.
    • ilogik 9mo ago
      I don't fear getting shot by police. Or fear for my kid's while he's in school. Or medical debt We can live without cloudflare
    • oaiey 9mo ago
      Doing business is different in the EU as it is different in China or Russia. If you want it to be not different, work in globalization not America first. Europe was fine until it got disrupted by Russia and the US. But that has nothing to do with this topic here. This is just a company not following a local law. Nothing special in the law (it is shitty like any IP law) or the case here.
• heraldgeezer 9mo ago
  Good, make it hurt. Saying this as a European. Why I actually use American DNS etc, it is at least open by default often. EU loves to censor and hide.
• lijok 9mo ago
  Oh how far eastdakota has fallen. What is it with billionaires losing their damn mind the wealthier they become?
  • klaff 9mo ago
    And they all seem to love LOTR while acting just like Gollum.
  • UqWBcuFx6NV4r 9mo ago
    There was a gas leak on the island.
• jimnotgym 9mo ago
  I'm dead against Privacy Shield, but if it gets Cloudflare out of Europe then maybe it was worth it? BTW, before I read this Xweet I was a Cloudflare fan.
  • richwater 9mo ago
    > BTW, before I read this Xweet I was a Cloudflare fan. The CEO of a US tech company asking the Vice President for help with censorship caused you to immediately flip you opinion? And not only flip your opinion, but practically embrace complete censorship of the internet if that means Cloudflare leaving Europe? ..yikes.
    • Hamuko 9mo ago
      Why is he asking for Elon for help too?
• ancorevard 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  • UqWBcuFx6NV4r 9mo ago
    You know in your heart of hearts that this is a blatantly intellectually dishonest comparison. Nobody’s buying it, not even yourself.
    • ancorevard 9mo ago
      True. CCP does not attempt to impose their censorship on other countries, while EU have asked Cloudflare to DNS block their wish list for the entire world.
    • xdennis 9mo ago
      I'm buying it. Look up the number of people prosecuted in China for internet speech versus the UK (not even EU). The UK prosecutes more even though it has a much smaller population.
      • philipwhiuk 9mo ago
        That's not true.
      • monkaiju 9mo ago
        source?
    • Wyverald 9mo ago
      FWIW, this is the least effective way to disagree with someone on the internet. Everyone knows it, even yourself. (snark aside -- either say _why_ you disagree, or just don't engage at all if you think it's a troll.)
  • Hamuko 9mo ago
    If the Italian law is equivalent to the Great Firewall, why is Cloudflare upset about it? They have servers in 35 different locations around mainland China and I don't remember reading about their plans to pull out. https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/network/ https://www.cloudflare.com/en-gb/network/
• 0x_rs 9mo ago
  The appeal to an open internet from Cloudflare to Elon and Peter Thiel's stuffed toy is evidence this is not about freedom of speech but a political game. The AGCOM requests are inane and the so-called "Piracy Shield" sponsored by sports team corporations currently eyeing VPNs needs to go and those responsible for it must pay, but this doesn't make this right, either. And the current USA "cabal" isn't shadowy, rather right up your face, mocking you every day.
• lazzlazzlazz 9mo ago
  Europe's censorious behavior has become completely absurd, and reading the Italian docs (as several people here have already shared) doesn't make me more sympathetic. It's a real shame, and I'm disappointed that the dream of an internet free from censorship and manipulation seems to be forgotten by so many here - in favor of political squabbling.
• based2 9mo ago
  CF: 'Cloudflare is not the hosting provider of the reported content. Cloudflare offers network service solutions including pass-through security services, a content distribution network (CDN) and registrar services. Due to the pass-through nature of our services, our IP addresses appear in WHOIS and DNS records for websites using Cloudflare.'
• kelvinjps10 9mo ago
  Is this similar to what happened in Spain?
• jurschreuder 9mo ago
  So now in Europe we can now also download all Hollywood movies for free? Because of the open internet?
• pluralmonad 9mo ago
  I think maybe I should seek out AI art for awhile. I know this is where everything is going and I'm tired of cringing so hard every time one of these AI gen'd images is used in a serious way. But that image at the bottom of the tweet makes the entire post seem less serious to me.
  • deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  • deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  • fuddle 9mo ago
    Yes I thought the same. I thought the post was making a good point, but the image just undermined the seriousness of the post, as it characterized Italian politicians as zombies. It made me think less of the author.
    • agoodusername63 9mo ago
      It reminds me of any of elon musk’s crash outs. Kinda a bad thing to be associated with
  • plagiarist 9mo ago
    Attaching a little cartoon at the bottom makes it extremely childish, no "seem" about it.
• BenGosub 9mo ago
  I have a feeling that usually when someone complains about freedom of speech, they are actually complaining about something else.
• Ritewut 9mo ago
  Definitely an everyone sucks here situation.
• UqWBcuFx6NV4r 9mo ago
  As a non-American (and non-European) I got the foul stench of ‘American upset that other legal jurisdictions exist’ before I even finished the first sentence. The absolute slathering on of such emotive language feels very disingenuous. It’s immediately obvious that I’m being taken for some sort of ride. I can picture Kyle’s dad from South Park, at his computer, with his glass of red, writing his Yelp reviews. I genuinely don’t know how anyone can write like this and think that it’s a good look.
• tekkk 9mo ago
  While he has a point and Italians are kinda embarrassing in their politics, can't help the feeling that he comes off as a bit of cry-baby. Trying to win points with the JD/Musk mafia that hard seems weird and icky. Seems like signaling to other billionaire bros that they belong to their faction, which in my books isn't that great either. That last uppercase line a cherry on top of shattering my image of CF as respectable tech-vendors.
• jacquesm 9mo ago
  That's a pretty bad take. This whole situation came into existence because CF has positioned itself as a convenient choke point. The Italian government is dumb, but 'eastdakota' is being dumber here. JD Vance and Musk are about as poisonous to international relations as it gets and bringing them up in relation with Europe making and enforcing its own laws - no matter how misguided - makes me think you should probably focus on the beam in your own eye first. As for the rest of the threats: please do. Europe needs less, not more dependencies on USD and US companies. We'll figure it out, or not.
  • everfrustrated 9mo ago
    There are many European CDN providers. Cloudflare is nowhere near as critical to the internet as HN crowd would suggest.
    • jacquesm 9mo ago
      They're at 82% or so of all websites using CDNs, other providers are extremely small in comparison. CF is this large because of a feedback loop with respect to being able to deal with large denial of service attacks. They are - for most serious players - the only game in town now.
    • DenisM 9mo ago
      If a company choses Cloudflare they would have great service everywhere except Italy. If they chose a service with lower quality / reach, they will suffer degraded service across the board. If they try to use more than one CDN that’s a lot of hassle. It’s not clear which way the decisions will go in reality. Past experience suggests that tech companies eventually accommodate local laws, trading complexity of explaining this to customers for complexity of implementing targeted blocking tools.
      • jacquesm 9mo ago
        A lot depends on the next couple of months and the US's continued belligerence against - former? - allies. If that isn't toned down, and drastically so then I expect there to be many more consequences than just for CDN providers.
• UqWBcuFx6NV4r 9mo ago
  > We believe Italy, like all countries, has a right to regulate the content on networks inside its borders. But they must do so following the Rule of Law and principles of Due Process. I really couldn’t care less about your legal philosophy, mate. I understand that you’re used to corporations setting the rules, and I’m sure that it brought you such great joy to write a little post where you got to flex about being well-connected with your country’s morally corrupt administration. However, your views on whether or not a country had a right to self-regulation, have zero impact on your obligation to comply. You don’t get to parachute in and set your own terms. Do you really think that your childish threats of ‘pulling your free plan’ and ‘not opening an office’ will have the intended effect? I genuinely can’t work out why someone didn’t tap this kid on the shoulder and suggest that he tone his rant down a bit. The US is a sick, sick country. Nowhere else does anyone have the misplaced confidence to act this insanely stupid.
• scarlehoff 9mo ago
  I find the "censorship" frame funny. This is happening because certain countries in Europe are governed by soccer oligarchs instead of big tech. Choose your poison, I guess.
  • jacquesm 9mo ago
    Fortunately I can ignore soccer, big tech however, not so much.
• ExpertAdvisor01 9mo ago
  I don’t understand why they are tying the fine amount to global revenue rather than Italian revenue. Any Italian here who can explain it ?
  • betaby 9mo ago
    It's pretty common in fact for certain countries, see for example https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-fines-google-20-decillion-world-gdp-youtube-kremlin-war-ukraine-rcna178172 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-fines-google-20-de...
    • ExpertAdvisor01 9mo ago
      Where does it mention Global Revenue ? It's just a symbolical fine
      • betaby 9mo ago
        Practically it's the same - some arbitrary amount.
  • ExpertAdvisor01 9mo ago
    Ah Digital service act fines and other eu fines are tied to Global revenue.
  • philipwhiuk 9mo ago
    Easy. Tech companies love revenue and profit shifting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich The sales are 'made' in the US despite the customer and the "sales team" in the country.
    • ExpertAdvisor01 9mo ago
      Ehm This is already completely outdated. Every EU country has now strict transfer pricing laws
• superkuh 9mo ago
  >Italy insists a shadowy, European media cabal should be able to dictate what is and is not allowed online. That, of course, is DISGUSTING What's equally disgusting is that one corporation has managed to put itself in the position to dictate these things instead. Cloudflare has literally been running a denial of service on congress.gov (any many other important domains) for at least 3 years if you aren't running latest chrome or latest firefox or similar. Like a broken clock, he's not wrong. But it's the pot calling the kettle black.
• pop_calc 9mo ago
  The appeal to JD Vance is properly craven and validates the view that their business model is effectively a protection racket. Recall the unsavoury episode with taviso, when they lobbied the FTC to investigate him after he helped clean up their mess during Cloudbleed. They always pivot to aggression when challenged.
  • shwaj 9mo ago
    I’m not sure whose business model you’re referring to, Cloudflare or Trump/Vance? Or sounds like the former, but I’m not sure how that appeal “validates the view…”.
    • goodrubyist 9mo ago
      He's very likely being defensive.
  • idopmstuff 9mo ago
    I mean I dislike JD Vance as much as the next guy, but I don't see how it's unreasonable to appeal to the federal government for assistance in dealing with international legal issues. That's very much in the government's remit.
    • croes 9mo ago
      Lawyers are for legal issues. Do you call your government if you get a fine in a foreign country? Unless it’s life threatening I doubt that.
      • Alupis 9mo ago
        You do when the fine is more than double your annual revenue in the foreign nation, has international and geopolitical implications, impacts many other US businesses, could harm foreign relations, and will harm regular US citizens. That's exactly the type of thing the Executive Branch is supposed to deal with.
• aforwardslash 9mo ago
  Regardless of whether the law is absurd or not (I honestly have no idea, but we've seen some crazy stuff lately in the EU), its kinda precious that a CEO only complains about it when his company is fined. I'm certain it is also quite reassuring for any paying Cloudflare customer that the company strategy is driven by the CEO Twitter rants; That if by some reason doesn't want to play ball with local laws (as draconian as they may be) and the company is fined, his public reaction is threatening to leave the country. Its not the first time he does this, and certainly it won't be the last. This communication style gets old fast, and IMO this actually hurts the company - I'm a free tier user and would never subscribe any paid products. I think their tech is amazing, they surely have great engineers, but I don't feel comfortable financing a company that thinks it is above the law. The icing on the cake is the plea for a free internet; You know what a free internet looks like? A network that doesn't make half its content inaccessible because someone in a major company did a mistake on a SQL query. Or a network that isn't controlled by a company that basically just said "we're tight with the US government, so f** your laws".
  • tuwtuwtuwtuw 9mo ago
    What is an example of a crazy law from EU?
    • aforwardslash 9mo ago
      https://fightchatcontrol.eu https://fightchatcontrol.eu
      • tuwtuwtuwtuw 9mo ago
        Agreed. But to be fair, the proposal was rejected.
        • NoahZuniga 9mo ago
          Not for long, seemingly.
        • 9mo ago
• throwaway89201 9mo ago
  The Italian 'piracy shield' is indeed reprehensible, but the tweet is very far out there as well. For all I care Cloudflare blocks the entirety of Europe for a week or so in protest, but aligning yourself with the bunch of fascists now in charge of the US government and prefacing that with "while there are things I would handle differently than the current U.S. administration" is pretty insane as Cloudflare will be at the complete mercy of their lawlessness, if not now, then in the future.
• paganel 9mo ago
  > To effectively tackle live sports piracy, Of course it's about football/calcio. I love Italy and almost everything related to Italy (I'm a Juventus fan to boot), but in this the Italian officials are way out of their element and behind the times.
• bluecalm 9mo ago
  As a side note: just today Polish president veto'ed a law that would allow similar government power. The government coalition instantly turned on "think of the children" rhetoric in response. I think they are misreading the public sentiment on this one though.
• onraglanroad 9mo ago
  Wow! That's an appalling image to finish with. How could you possibly think that was good?
• silexia 9mo ago
  [flagged]
• TurdF3rguson 9mo ago
  Wow that guy does not sound like what in my head a Cloudflare CEO sounds like. Win stupid prizes? Bro...
  • coffeefirst 9mo ago
    Seriously. If only he had a professional comms team who could help him craft a message that didn't read like... that.
    • fc417fc802 9mo ago
      I got the impression that he might be trying to imitate Trump's communication style as part of his appeal to the US administration throwing its weight behind him here. Particularly given the image attachment at the end. It's difficult to imagine that nobody qualified double checked this before he posted it.
• Sol- 9mo ago
  His tone and sucking up to his authoritarian government will probably only serve to negatively polarize Europe against Cloudflare, even if he might have a point of the substance itself.
  • jacquesm 9mo ago
    Indeed. There was a much better way to make this point.
    • luke5441 9mo ago
      I don't get how such idiotic people get into those kinds of positions.
  • Dansvidania 9mo ago
    The post is unhinged. Basically a tantrum. It’s sad really. It reminds me of https://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-reports/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-r... tldr you don’t get angry discussing with institutions because it makes you look like an amateur.
  • novoreorx 9mo ago
    Agreed, he really should learn from how Pavel Durov responded to France after he was treated unfairly by French police.
• llm_nerd 9mo ago
  I suspect the "we're an American company and we're going to get the government protection racket to threaten you" gambit isn't going to achieve the results he's hoping for. I was reading through this and at first I saw Italy as the bad guys, demanding ridiculous asks. The moment the "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." nonsense appeared, followed right after by callouts to Vance and Musk, and threats that he's going to stomp his little feet to the administration...good god, this is pathetic. He looks like a clown. A snivelling, whiny, entitled clown. lol, ban Cloudflare from Europe. Honestly, at this point all American companies should be banned everywhere but the US, as every American oligarch like this guy does this "We're American gosh darnit!" bit while this administration talks about annexing allies. Disgusting, deplorable behaviour.
  • asgeesg 9mo ago
    [dead]
    • llm_nerd 9mo ago
      Two things can be true- a) sovereign nations can impose literally any rule they want on foreign businesses, even if those rules are ridiculous, arbitrary, or defy the "freedom" values of some other country. b) This incredibly tired "I'm telling Daddy Trump!" bit is pathetic, and it, among with the fact that America is currently -- by far -- the most dangerous country on the planet, should yield garbage people like Price getting their ass handed to them.
• Phelinofist 9mo ago
  I mean just banning stuff because some media companies want it is brain dead, but immediately calling for daddy Vance and mommy Musk is just pathetic.
• Hamuko 9mo ago
  Is Matthew also pro-CSAM or is there some other reason to namedrop Elon Musk right now?
• tibbydudeza 9mo ago
  I am all for an open internet- I want to torrent US copyrighted content :)
• forty 9mo ago
  His whole #freespeech theater would be slightly more convincing if they did not praise America's neo fascists in the same tweet and also if cloudflare did not work in, for example, China (where I guess they comply with local censorship). It's fine to defend your profits but don't pretend you defend anything else.
• pier25 9mo ago
  Given the La Liga situation in Spain with Cloudflare you can't really say he is wrong. But his MAGA comments make me ashamed to be a Cloudflare customer.
  • jacquesm 9mo ago
    > But his MAGA comments make me ashamed to be a Cloudflare customer. You have the power.
    • pier25 9mo ago
      I'm actively looking for alternatives to migrate current projects. For sure I won't use it for new projects.
      • jacquesm 9mo ago
        https://european-alternatives.eu/category/cdn-content-delivery-network https://european-alternatives.eu/category/cdn-content-delive...
        • pier25 9mo ago
          The CDN is the least crucial aspect of Cloudflare for me. There's really no one else that has Pages, Workers, KV, R2, WAF, etc at the same price. You need to stitch services from multiple providers. Bunny is the closest option I've found but still lacking in some areas and the pricing is quite different.
  • neysofu 9mo ago
    Which MAGA comment, specifically? Are you referring to this? > While there are things I would handle differently than the current U.S. administration, I appreciate @JDVance taking a leadership role in recognizing this type of regulation is a fundamental unfair trade issue [...] You may or may not agree, it hardly seems MAGA though.
  • tick_tock_tick 9mo ago
• oriettaxx 9mo ago
  If you are curious on how it looks a website taken down by Italian state apparatus, have a look at https://phica.eu https://phica.eu (in details: the action was carried out by the Central Directorate for Scientific Police and Cybersecurity within the Department of Public Security, Ministry of the Interior). The domain resolves (by many DNS, 1.1.1.1 included) to Cloudflare IPs :)
• register 9mo ago
  This follows 23—again, 23—violations reported to Cloudflare. There is nothing more to add. Given how slowly Italian law typically moves, Cloudflare had more than enough time to take corrective action. The tone would likely have been far more accommodating had Cloudflare attempted to contact the authorities and negotiate its position. Instead, it appears that, in all likelihood, nothing was done after 23 violations. What exactly was the CEO expecting?
  • cm2012 9mo ago
    23 violations of an unjust and unworkable law. The law is bad and should go.
    • monkaiju 9mo ago
      Fair enough but thats not up to cloudflare to decide, if they operate in the country they must respect its laws
      • Nemo_bis 9mo ago
        We don't know what the law is. The rules were created with an administrative procedure backed by a very generic statute which is likely unconstitutional. Neither the Supreme court (Cassazione) nor the Constitutional court have ruled on the matter yet. Getting a fine is the first step towards further judicial review, probably.
      • Moldoteck 9mo ago
        so CF is clear - if the law is not changed they'll leave italian market. That's fair
        • register 9mo ago
          And he is more than welcome to do so. The services provided by Cloudflare can easily be replaced by more local providers that have no problem complying with Italian laws. The takedown might not happen within 30 minutes, but there would still be action and a response to a report from the authorities. Italy and Europe do not need the arrogance of those who believe they are above the law by virtue of a freedom that is used only as an ideological shield. As if Trump were really the champion of freedom, right?
• moktonar 9mo ago
  It’s easier for a state to enforce censorship when there is only a SPoF
• knowitnone3 9mo ago
  Geoblock all of Italy
• ildon 9mo ago
  It's a shame that Italy is going down this path. As an Italian, I'm very disappointed and worried that these kind of fines are issued. The worst part: because this has been issued by Agcom, it is also likely that this is not caused by the current government. Agcom is a bunch of bureaucrats that do not report to anyone other than themselves. Eastdakota is right in saying that the rule of law is being disregarded. As a lawyer, and as someone that has been studying Italian institutions for decades, the problem is real and is only getting worse.
• notepad0x90 9mo ago
  does he not understand that countries are...countries? "quasi-judicial" is so childish of a thing to say, of all people by a CEO. I don't even care about the details of the law, what is he aiming to achieve here by disrespecting their government as a foreigner and accusing them of "censorship". Makes wish they'd fine him just for that tweet alone. You do what a country tells you to do as a foreigner, or you leave. These people want immigrants in their own country who obey their own laws to be treated like animals and deported to countries they've never even heard of before, yet they don't think they're obliged to follow the laws of other countries. Isn't this guy an HN user too @eastdakota (https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=eastdakota https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=eastdakota), or am I mistaken? I'd love to hear his response to this thread, just as a fly-on-the-wall.
  • neysofu 9mo ago
    > You do what a country tells you to do as a foreigner, or you leave. I suppose you're right. You're still allowed to criticize the government's decisions though! This is certainly true in Italy, which has quite reasonable laws with regards to freedom of speech. > what is he aiming to achieve here by disrespecting their government Western government instituitions are hardly sacred. Again, people are allowed to criticize them, or disrespect them event if they so desire. What he's trying to achieve is a more just and reasonable application of the law, as it's quite clear if you'll care to carefully read the tweet instead of raging at his supposed disrespect for the Italian government.
    • notepad0x90 9mo ago
      The people in italy are allowed to do whatever they want with their own government. Even foreigners in other countries, who cares. But if you're a guest, you don't disrespect your host, certainly not about the rules they have. Imagine if I were to complain about HN rules and how the moderators are tyrants. That's what @eastdakota is doing. It's one thing to say that when you're posting else where, but not here. he's not having to following italian laws because he's an italian, he's having to do so, so that he can be afforded the privileges of doing business there.
  • 9mo ago
• anthem2025 9mo ago
  [dead]
• techblueberry 9mo ago
  “any sites a shadowy cabal of European media elites deemed against their interests” Does anyone else find it difficult to discern truth in this era where everyone seems to want to pray in your emotions. My gut is that he’s angry for the right reasons, but it’s hard for me to trust anyone who tries to use the words “shadowy cabal” in a serious context.
• cultofmetatron 9mo ago
  [flagged]
• gusgus01 9mo ago
  I should probably make sure my usage of Cloudflare is ready to be migrated off at a moments notice if it's this easy for Cloudflare to consider getting rid of it for a whole country. Funny enough, after a month in Italy and using my tailscale node at home out of habit, most online services assumed my home IP wanted the Italian version of every website (including Cloudflare). I wonder if that would have also included blocking me from access (if this ends up going through).
• cdrnsf 9mo ago
  He lost me when he started thanking fascists (Vance, Musk et al) who are actively attacking speech in the US they don't agree with. The hypocrisy is unbearable.
• bambax 9mo ago
  I kind of like(d) Cloudflare, but appealing to Musk and the couch lover that's currently serving as VP is despicable. What a swamp the US have become.
• anal_reactor 9mo ago
  I'm sure there are popular Italian websites behind CloudFlare. Say, train tickets. Probably not, but just for the sake of the argument. 1. Order comes to block address 69.69.69.69 within 30 minutes 2. Quickly switch Trenitalia to 69.69.69.69. Which is fine, because CloudFlare probably doesn't promise you any specific IP address, so they can assign them from the pool as they please. 3. Block 69.69.69.69. 4. In the whole country everyone who tries to buy a train ticket or check the schedule sees "train service doesn't work because football, please try again after the match", effectively paralyzing public transport. 5. Average Giuseppe learns about the ridiculousness of the situation and gets upset. 6. The government suddenly has to explain to the people what happened. They cannot pin the blame on CloudFlare (as per current fine), so the only remaining scapegoat is the football association. 7. The entire bus stands up clapping.
• stemlord 9mo ago
  How is it a bad thing to have cloudflare out of your country? No single entity should have the power to do this kind of thing even if they choose not to. Don't threaten italy with a good time
• angoragoats 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  • angoragoats 9mo ago
    I’d appreciate the person who downvoted this comment explaining why they condone nonconsensual pornography including that of minors.
• anonzzzies 9mo ago
  Is this, like in Spain and some other countries, all basically focused on blocking illegal sports streaming? Especially soccer. I have a friend who runs a fairly large forum (aka a lot of user content including links to illegal things) in Spain who gets letters about 'Illegal streaming links to movies, TV shows and sports' with a list of links; he knows he only has to remove the sports, they do not give a crap about illegal US show streams locally and US requests go to /dev/null as they cannot enforce anyway. So I assume this is only about streaming sports as well?
  • itopaloglu83 9mo ago
    It's all a racket to extract money from Italians, not enforcing IP rights. Just like it's mentioned in Why Nations Fail by Daron Acemoglu, some organizations are designed to extract resources from masses. Italian loves soccer and some big shots managed to get the TV rights for a per-pay service, and that's why they're pushing for so hard. Otherwise I don't think Italian courts would go after people selling pirated DVDs on the streets of Milan.
• lovich 9mo ago
  Threatens retaliation against the individuals in Italy directly on top of the government, and I notice he specified "based in Italy" not "Italian citizen". Then goes on to thank JD Vance, and crow about Elon "I censor anyone who offends my ego" Musk as being right on Free Speech being in danger. Also the "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." which sounds synonymous with FAFO which this admin is using to mean "if you resist us, we will hurt you" If he had just said that Cloudflare is unwilling to comply with these terms and is leaving the Italian market as such, that would be one thing, but this reads like he just ordered his MAGA hat and is going to suck up to the current admin to get them to pressure another country. Lets add the hypocrisy here too, since he says that countries shouldn't regulate outside their borders, and is then running to Uncle Same for support > "I will be in DC first thing next week to discuss this with U.S. administration officials... > We believe Italy, like all countries, has a right to regulate the content on networks inside its borders. But they must do so following the Rule of Law and principles of Due Process. And Italy certainly has no right to regulate what is and is not allowed on the Internet in the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, China, Brazil, India or anywhere outside its borders.
• ta9000 9mo ago
  AI generated image he attached to his post is cringe.
• croes 9mo ago
  >Using global revenue is further example of the extra-judicial overreach Thank companies that transferred their national revenue via shady tax evation tricks into other countries so that their national revenue was nearly zero.
• rsimmons 9mo ago
  Sounds similar to the UK Online Safety Act and their internet Czar.
• cfabuses 9mo ago
  Cloudflare is a haven for abuse. Most large scam groups now have their own ASNs and IP registrations, so CF just forwards them the report and tells you to contact fiberscam.co.za or whatever fake company the scam group has created. They are not cut out for this workaround and yet the largest scam groups have been using it since 2023. I don't think they are currently doing any statistical analysis, one provider has just 3 /24s and hosts thousands of scam shops, hundreds of reports to CF and nothing done, they won't consider blocking the ASNs even when you show them a report that 98% of the IPs they own serve scam shops. At this point I consider CF willfully negligent.
  • tylergetsay 9mo ago
    Any further reading on this?
• karel-3d 9mo ago
  note that this is all about football streaming, which is so funny as far as i can tell, it's really not about politics or surveillance... it's really just about football streaming, and they push the 30 minute thing because it's important for them to stop it during the match. it's stupid; but it's even more stupid to do draconian censorship for... football streaming.
• perfmode 9mo ago
  Matthew Prince’s framing of Italy’s action as a “free speech assault by a shadowy cabal” is rhetorically exaggerated, but his underlying concerns about due process have legitimate basis—confirmed by EU Commission criticism of the same system. The reality is more nuanced than either party presents: Italy is enforcing an aggressive copyright protection regime with documented implementation flaws, while Prince is strategically reframing an anti-piracy dispute as a censorship issue and overstating US administration support for his position.
  • register 9mo ago
    Exactly this.
• deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
• jiveturkey 9mo ago
  > quasi-judicial the tweet starts off pretty strong, which I didn't care for but I understand. this phrase however feels wrong. i guess i don't understand Italy, but isn't this like saying the SEC or FCC is quasi-judicial? > In other words, Italy insists a shadowy, European media cabal should be able to dictate what is and is not allowed online. ah, unlike when CF themselves decides unilaterally, not even as part of a cabal, what should and should not be allowed online. got it.
• fckcldflr22 9mo ago
  Italian authorities woke up pissed and decided to block some sites. Matthew Prince can decide to censor the sites he doesn't like, but god forbid some actual legal authority does the same thing.
• fckcldflr22 9mo ago
  [flagged]
• Nux 9mo ago
  Started reading the post on Cloudflare's side, but halfway through I ended up against it. It's a little bit scary that guy is the CEO, his post sounds crazy and unprofessional. The fact he's posting on X to begin with is a warning in itself.
  • azangru 9mo ago
    > The fact he's posting on X to begin with is a warning in itself. Why so? The counter at the bottom of the post claims that it has been viewed 7.5 million times. I don't know how this translates into individual people; but still, probably a decent reach?
    • pornel 9mo ago
      It's not about reach, but about not seeing a problem in being a member of Elon Musk's website.
      • azangru 9mo ago
        People are there for reach. Politicians, celebrities. Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Jeremy Corbyn, Keir Starmer, Kaja Kallas, Ursula von der Leyen... If they don't see a problem, why should the Cloudflare CEO?
      • gck1 9mo ago
        Which social network would you choose if you wanted reach? There isn't any that isn't run by questionable people.
• licebmi__at__ 9mo ago
  I totally disagree with Italy's law, but quoting Vance and Musk on this plus the AI slop at the end. Nah, I'm taking my stuff out of Cloudflare.
• polack 9mo ago
  Surly this post must have the opposite effect of what he intended. Even if you side with Cloudflare on the core issue this post is so cringy my butthole collapsed into itself. Are Americans not embarrassed by the way these tech bros operate? As a European it’s obvious that the US gone from an allied to an enemy. I would feel like a traitor if I picked US tech these days.
• novoreorx 9mo ago
  Reminds me of what France did to Telegram, but Pavel Durov has obviously made a much better statement
• mikelitoris 9mo ago
  Just by looking at the profile picture my douchebag detecting spidey-senses were tingling. And reading further down the text with people he brings up as he cries for mommy... ding ding ding!
• df0b9f169d54 9mo ago
  okay, Cloudflare CEO is gonna complain his business and legal issues with the one who is defending a murder . Great!.
• pembrook 9mo ago
  Reading this comment thread it’s now clear to me that HN is beyond any repair and is officially dead. It’s fully transitioned to a political reactionary Reddit board devoid of any interesting discussion or insight. Did it get too popular for its own good or has everyone just gone crazy?
• nalekberov 9mo ago
  Since when Cloudflare started to fight for Open Internet? Thanks to them last year we weren’t able to visit many websites. If that’s how they perceive openness, they have to think twice.
• ic_fly2 9mo ago
  No matter the merit of the claim, the appeal to the fascists in the US government invalidates any legitimacy. And that is an achievement given how moronic the current Italian government is.
• nurettin 9mo ago
  Their dns service is used for circumventing illegal sports streams. And when a government institution wants to prevent that (ideally, before the end of that match) it is an evil cabal and cf is the protector of free internet and tags #elonmusk This must be a joke.
  • Moldoteck 9mo ago
    banning them outside of italy is evil. Fining 200% of revenue from italy is evil too
    • nurettin 9mo ago
      Banning them or not banning them has nothing to do with evil, it has to do with due process. CF complies with lawful protection against piracy or gets tfo. For me, throwing a tantrum on twitter, riling people up and telling daddy elon doesn't change any of these definitions.
      • Moldoteck 9mo ago
        It has. You are trying to enforce a policy that affects global customers instead of a localized one
• dependsontheq 9mo ago
  Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive amounts of desinformation, deep fakes, just emotional appeals with the goal of destroying liberal democracy. The US government is actively trying to support them by fighting against any kind of European rules and spreading their part of desinformation. This is not about normal politics, Europe is under siege.
  • budududuroiu 9mo ago
    > In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive amounts of desinformation, deep fakes, just emotional appeals with the goal of destroying liberal democracy. The disinformation campaigns have always been there, the reason they're growing roots in the mind of the average European is because the EU is spending it's razor thon political capital on things Chat Control, Digital Omnibus which are wildly unpopular. Isn't it a bit ironic that in order to protect "liberal democracy" you need to reach out for authoritarian suppression?
    • StrauXX 9mo ago
      The average person in Europe does neither care about chat control, nor have they heared more about tgan one or two surface-level news articles. Russian propaganda being more and more effective and these actions are not related.
      • budududuroiu 9mo ago
        Russian propaganda is effective because the EU leadership has dropped the ball so hard that the Kremlin looks attractive. People aren't as stupid as you think
    • dependsontheq 9mo ago
      Yes we need to restrict the freedom of non citizens to influence our debates. And we need to have rules how digital platforms can influence our internal debates, we had this rules for TV and newspapers. That's not suppression thats's defense.
• CodinM 9mo ago
  I read through that and I'm not a fan of Cloudflare. I live in the EU, I dislike the increased control that the EU keeps desiring - but generally we've fought it with various degrees of success. I feel it's a bit disingenuous to act like the US has total internet freedom since you're the folks that invented ISP letters. Regardless of that, what really bugged me was the threat of removing the free-tier service for any Italy based accounts, which despite being fully in their right to do, is a shitty thing to threaten with - and it's shocking he would threaten that so easily. So yes, my reaction is now to move all of my shit from Cloudflare as soon as possible because I don't see CF as a reliable partner right now after that tantrum.
• mcintyre1994 9mo ago
  Oh, wow. I had no idea the CEO of cloudflare was so unprofessional.
• flumpcakes 9mo ago
  I'm not sure I have ever seen such an unprofessional communication from the CEO of Cloudflare, irrespective of a poorly written Italian law. The fine was also peanuts for a company the size of Cloudflare. Given the current political climate I think the tone he is using will turn a lot of Europeans off: Open threats against citizens of an EU country (turning off free cyber protections) and general 'American Exceptionalism' attitude and brown nosing of the current administration. He is within his rights to pull out of a market, but this is an example of the now-becoming-classic Trumpism of smugly shouting pretty extreme open threats to bully your way into getting what you want (and screw everyone else who isn't America). It honestly makes me want to add it to the list of American tech companies willing to sabotage Europe for disproportionate reasons. (Currently X, Microsoft) and start planning strategies to decouple from them, if not outright replace. Perhaps this is a knee-jerk reaction, but I was not expecting this from Cloudflare.
  • OGEnthusiast 9mo ago
    > Perhaps this is a knee-jerk reaction, but I was not expecting this from Cloudflare. You’re surprised that an American CEO is speaking out against a large fine many believe is bogus, instead of not saying anything to avoid offending…Europe? I don’t think anyone in the world right now is intimidated by the EU, from China to the US to Russia.
  • Moldoteck 9mo ago
    the fine being 2x revenue from italy is not peanuts. The threat to leave the country is more than fair. If we are talking about sabotaging europe we should focus in the first place on chat control laws and how those slowly slip into adoption...
• arter45 9mo ago
  As an Italian with little interest in watching soccer (pirated or not), I have just read AGCOM's decision and it provides a bit more context (although with typical legalese language): - right holders used the piracy shield platform to report Cloudflare-owned IP/FQDNs used for piracy streaming - Italian anti-piracy law mandates that "IT service providers" (rough translation) have to comply with AGCOM orders by enforcing blocks at the DNS or IP level or with other technical or organizational measures - in 2024, AGCOM told Cloudflare to appoint someone in charge of these matters, highlighted that a lot of piracy websites use Cloudlfare, and invited Cloudflare to join itself the piracy shield platform - again in 2024, following additional notes explicitly sent to Cloudflare (apparently via snail mail, but I guess it's for legal reasons) and published on AGCOM website, AGCOM also invited Cloudflare to join the "Technical Board" of Piracy Shield, basically the forum where ISPs discuss technical aspects of how Piracy Shield is actually implemented - in 2025, AGCOM told CF to block certain IPs. CF didn't reply and AGCOM checked that those IPs were not blocked (surprise? I guess?), so AGCOM formally told CF they were violating the law. AGCOM also asked CF and Guardia di Finanza (Italian police specialized in fiscal/financial matters) to report CF's European and Italian sales figures. CF gave these data (which are redacted in the public AGCOM document). - CF replied with a long list of observations, essentially saying that 1) CF hasn't joined piracy shield so they don't know which IPs should be blocked, 2) there is a pending hearing at the TAR (the court responsible for complaints against government/public entities/regulators decisions), 3) CF has no technical way to "know, control, modify or interfere in any way" with the content published by its customers, 4) even if blocked by CF the website is still online, 5) setting up a DNS filter will be very complicated and will impact performance (latency) - AGCOM argued that 1) yes, CF hasn't joined piracy shield but it also didn't accept the invitation to join its technical board and, anyway, when it asked CF to block certain IPs it actually listed them, 2) AGCOM is not accusing CF of violating copyright laws, but of not complying with these piracy shield measures and, because CF actually didn't block those IPs, there is no need to wait for the other court hearing. In addition, other court hearings have considered CF responsible when illegal websites are hosted using its services, because of the reverse proxy service (basically, the CDN itself) and the fact that CF services can optimize performance and allow users to reach a website even when it's blocked (I think they're talking about their 1.1.1.1 DNS), 3) over 11 years, CF received a lot of notes from AGCOM because of domains hosted/protected by CF, but never challenged them, and in many cases CF was acting as reverse proxy for these domains (surprise?) 4) blocking these resources is mandated by law, and that resources not hosting illegal content anymore have been "unblocked" in the past, 5) CF has the technical knowledge to set up this kind of filters and should be organized to be able to comply with various laws and regulations. I think this gives a bit more nuance. By the way, personally, I would argue that it's not true that CF has no technical way to "know, control, modify or interfere in any way" with the content, precisely because it acts as a giant reverse proxy/MITM. Arguing about the validity of this law (although the law was written by the parliament) or its implementation is one thing, but claiming that a CDN has no technical way to block resources seems a bit naive.
• amai 9mo ago
  The americans get here a dose of their own medicine. An IT related law with global reach. One of the first of this kind was actually created by the US itself with the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act Now they complain that other countries do the same to them. Somehow I can't feel sorry for them.
• sidcool 9mo ago
  If the CEO of the company of a foreign nation threatens a country, they country needs to inspect.
• SergeAx 9mo ago
  This is a continuation of LaLiga vs Cloudflare in Spain. Spaniards are just blocking the whole CF IP ranges during the broadcast of important sports games, shutting down half the internet altogether. Italians are trying another way. I can't ad hoc the best solution for all, but asking for help from Elon Musk and JD Vance, two prominent borderline fascist figures of our time, is disturbing.
• fc417fc802 9mo ago
  > It's impossible for either a government or parliamentary body to tell to an indipendent authority what to do and what not to do What did Borghi mean by this? Isn't that the equivalent of a US senator publicly stating that the FCC is outside of the US federal government's ability to reign in?
• ahmetomer 9mo ago
  I respect and agree with Cloudflare's right to pursue the decisions that Matthew Prince outlined — even if it is used as retaliation or a threat. What has completely turned the tone of the message for me is appealing to Elon Musk & JD Vance for democratic values and free speech. I can't really take it seriously when free speech and democracy are pretended to be important only when the interests of the political figures of the US admin or of Elon Musk are at stake. Those values are supposed to be enjoyed by everyone and followed through on, no matter whose agenda and interests they may harm (or improve) as a result. At this point, they are tools (or weapons) that are appealed to when one's interests (or opinions, or feelings) are threatened. If we listen to JD Vance and Elon Musk, we get the idea that it's the leftists and brown immigrants and democrats and woke people who are making everything worse, inciting violence and terror, are a block to prosperity and advancement, a threat to Western civilization. And thus, free speech is important to only further repeat and consolidate these points. The other way around cannot be entertained even as a possibility. They are exempt, for they are free of such flaws and imperfections. It is a difficult balance to keep between universal values, such as democracy and free speech, and one's own interests, such as political and financial. I would want to see more honesty than a pretense of complete devotion to these values. No one is. I am not, for that matter. I don't buy into Matthew Prince's appeal to free speech and democracy, but I am open to happily changing my mind in an incident where Cloudflare consequently takes an action that would harm the interests of said figures in a meaningful (not symbolic) way.
• mrkramer 9mo ago
  Cloudflare is not for the open internet; they can you kick you out of their service if they don't like you whenever they want, which is fine and legal for that matter or they freaking can have an outage and have your service shut down that way. It's a lose, lose situation. Stay out of Cloudflare, there is nothing good about them.
  • mrkramer 9mo ago
    they can kick you out*
• StrLght 9mo ago
  Related: EU commission has also criticized AGCOM for Privacy Shield [0]. > The Commission would also like to emphasize that the effective tackling of illegal content must also take into due account the fundamental right to freedom of expression and information under the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU [0]: https://torrentfreak.com/piracy-shield-concerns-prompt-eu-commission-to-engage-italian-govt-250702/ https://torrentfreak.com/piracy-shield-concerns-prompt-eu-co...
• seydor 9mo ago
  American services leaving the European market would be a blessing for european IT, but alas the europeans are not kicking then out, instead milking for fines. I WISH cloudflare did all the things they threaten to do, but they won't
• evilmonkey19 9mo ago
  I want just to step in by telling that Cloudflare also has networks in China. Probably not the best company to talk about freedom of speech when they collaborate with these goverments actively... https://www.cloudflare.com/application-services/products/china-network/ https://www.cloudflare.com/application-services/products/chi...
• datsci_est_2015 9mo ago
  Cringey and childish appeals to US government and billionaires aside, it’s funny how this is framed as “Magnanimous Free Speech Technology Company” vs “Evil European Bureaucratic Shadow Cabal” when the latter is more like “Massive Sports Monopoly Regulatory Capture”. When corporate entities do something bad, like attempting to maximize profits by capturing regulatory entities and bending them to their will, it’s the government’s fault. It’s laundering agency: the corporation has no agency because it simply seeks to maximize profits, but the bureaucrats have agency and are therefore morally wrong (Cloudflare CEO appealing to morals in his tweet). Very few comments in this thread decrying the root of the issue, which is that the football media empire has grown large enough that they’re imposing negative outcomes on the pubic hand that feeds them.
• tigerBL00D 9mo ago
  They should fight it. But why does he have to suck up to JD Vance and Musk I the same post? I kind of lost empathy at that point.
• hansvm 9mo ago
  This seems easy enough to solve. Every time the football oligarchy catches too many IPs in their dragnet, you can accidentally drag all the legitimate football exit nodes into your DNS blacklist. The only way to be sure DNS doesn't work for pirated football is to ensure it doesn't work for any football.
• cartofupai 9mo ago
  What has Cloudflare done to fight piracy enabled by their services and help solve the root cause of the issue? Anybody know? This seems like an issue that could have been solved when it was smaller. Lawyers and politicians are not who you want to find solutions to this kind of issues. Did Cloudflare provide solutions that were refused by the other party?
• aaronrobinson 9mo ago
  You may have a point but you lost me citing Vance and Musk.
• shermozle 9mo ago
  Moral high ground somewhat undermined by the post being on the deepfake porn and CSAM distribution platform formerly known as Twitter.
• mouthwooed 9mo ago
  regardless, every time I hear this dweeb open his mouth I find I think less of him.