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Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then canceled for poor sales
- tahoeskibum 10mo agoIt also came in almost double the promised price. AWD costs $80K vs $50K as promised. In comparison Model 3 and Model Y pricing is bang on!
- tracker1 10mo agoAt the size of Ford, sales numbers can be at a different mark for what is considered successful than others. Not to mention dealer gamesmanship fudges real sales numbers. As to the Cybertruck it's both interesting and kind of ugly... repairability is another concern/issue as is pure cost... I'm far more interested in the Slate[1] myself. It's probably closer to what a lot of consumers would want in an electric truck. It really feels like a spiritual successor to the OG Jeep (GP). 1. https://www.slate.auto/en
- jandrese 10mo agoI'll be interested in the Slate when I can actually buy one. I've seen far too many startup car companies fail to launch to ever get my hopes up. Also, the hopes that the very first vehicle from a brand new company will be affordable are not realistic. Making affordable vehicles requires production at large scale, and that requires enormous capital investment, which generally means your company needs to already have income. Even if it just to prove to potential investors that you have basic competence. Don't think that just because a billionaire is interested in the project that the funding will be easy. Billionaires don't like to spend their own money and can be easily distracted by newer and shinier projects.
- iancmceachern 10mo agoThis. When the cyber truck was announced we decided to buy a Super Duty instead. That was 5 years ago. It's now paid off and driven us and our RV all over the country, and still worth more than half it's purchase price with many more miles to go, and no issues at all (knock on wood). A lightning, cyber truck, or even rivian can't do those things. Instead of waiting for a slate just buy a little gas pickup and GO USE IT, live you life!!!
- wffurr 10mo ago>> no issues at all Other than all the CO2, CO, and NOx you've emitted over that time period. The government should have started taxing barrels of oil in the 70s.
- horsawlarway 10mo agoThe government started taxing fuel (both gas and diesel) at the federal level in 1932. Individual states go back to 1919.
- jandrese 10mo agoIf you want to kill coal and oil just tax them the fair market price of carbon sequestration for the amount of carbon they ultimately emit. Use that money to sequester the carbon. This is how carbon markets should have been set up, but unfortunately that would have killed the modern economy.
- tracker1 10mo agoIf that was the goal, then killing nuclear power and holding it back for the past 4 decades was probably the wrong move. Solar and other "renewable" sources aren't enough to meet energy needs now, let alone the near future.
- iancmceachern 10mo agoLook at the same specs for the cyber truck. There is about twice the carbon in the manufacturing of these, so it counts on people driving them for hundreds of thousands of miles, I don't see that happening with them because you can't even take a normal road trip while towing. These things just aren't going to see the miles, because they can't. They're just not usable as trucks. https://insideevs.com/news/719434/tesla-cybertruck-awd-vs-ram-2500-diesel-tow-comparison/ https://insideevs.com/news/719434/tesla-cybertruck-awd-vs-ra... Also the power plants and diesel generators for the data centers... https://www.selc.org/press-release/new-images-reveal-elon-musks-xai-datacenter-has-nearly-doubled-its-number-of-polluting-unpermitted-gas-turbines/ https://www.selc.org/press-release/new-images-reveal-elon-mu...
- everdrive 10mo agoSame. The Slate is so close to what I actually want out of an EV: basic, utilitarian, cheap, not made out of 5 iPads. It's not perfect, but neither is any of its competition.
- horsawlarway 10mo ago> At the size of Ford, sales numbers can be at a different mark for what is considered successful than others. Does this really hold when Tesla has a considerably higher valuation? Tesla is sitting at an egregious 30x market cap of Ford. If anything... I'd expect them to have sales targets that are ~30x the size of Ford. When you consider that Ford also makes many more models than Tesla (Tesla has like 8 core models incl the cybertruck [and the not-yet-for-sale semi...] , Ford has like 20+) By all measures - Tesla should be considerably more aggressive with sales targets for a core model, and it seems pretty clear the cybertruck is just a slow rolling market failure.
- tracker1 10mo agoFor 2025, Ford sold about 2.2 million vehicles, Tesla was like 1.6m. Given, more variety for Ford... But there's also margins and supply chains to consider. The Cybertruck is kind of ugly and very expensive... not to mention that no EV truck really does towing well. The fact that the Lightning sold more than the Cybertruck doesn't make it a success. The Cybertruck, imo, is not too different than a limited run sports car from a major car company... it's just a step above a concept car. The Lightning from Ford was an attempt to see if a market was really ready to shift to EV, it largely isn't. Even though I think it's probably a great option for a lot of work truck use, that doesn't include long distances or heavy towing, but then it likely prices itself out of that market segment too.
- horsawlarway 10mo agoI'm not sure what the takeaway from your comment is? I'm not arguing that the F-150 lightning was a commercial success for Ford, I'm suggesting that the argument that Tesla should be held to a different standard on sales numbers feels pretty shaky. Both of these are basically "concept cars", and neither company has really delivered. Both are expensive to make, and have very high sticker prices with low/negative margins (Tesla claims cybertruck is profitable, but they're sitting on an absolutely insane inventory count, which they can't seem to sell... so again... my guess is they're deep in the red for this model if you look at total costs instead)
- 1234letshaveatw 10mo agothe god awful range of the Slate is not closer to what a lot of consumers would want in an electric truck
- tracker1 10mo agoPlenty of people use pickup/work trucks and travel under 150-250 miles a day.
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoIt’s also the fact that Ford investors care about profits and its stock is not just a meme stock with no relationship to current or future profits like Tesla.
- dghlsakjg 10mo agoI see the slate as the successor of the now extinct (in Can + US) mini-truck. 90s trucks like the small Toyota Truck, old Ford Ranger, Nissan hardbody, etc. The kind of trucks that landscapers are still using, that are beat to shit, and have three features, cheap, load carrying, reliable by way of simplicity.
- tracker1 10mo agoI can see that, but I mean in terms of body specs and room to reshape/cover/modify the vehicle to different needs beyond pickup truck. Including a second row of seats.
- k12sosse 10mo agoGet a vintage pickup off Autotrader for low 5 figures and put the Edison electric conversion kit on it. It will absolutely melt faces and hearts.
- gigatexal 10mo agoFord doesn't have a benefactor worth close to 1T usd...
- malfist 10mo agoNether does Tesla
- CursedSilicon 10mo agoAre you suggesting that markets are rational?
- dfajgljsldkjag 10mo agoIt says a lot that spacex had to buy so many trucks just to help the sales numbers. I always thought the ford lightning was a better option for most people anyway. It is too bad they are stopping production when it seems to be the winner.
- malfist 10mo agoIf you sell five thousand units but built production capacity for a quarter million units, that's not a success.
- mingus88 10mo agoThere is also the optic that the premiere US EV company failed to deliver an EV pickup truck behind Rivian, Ford, Stellantis, and arguably did a far worse job at it. The F150 lightning was always going to be a tough sell for die hard truck customers but it at least has all the fit and finish that those customers expect, with access to the F-series aftermarket.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- jandrese 10mo ago5,600 units of Cybertrunk and Semi combined is basically 5,600 units of Cybertruck. The Semi is still a boondoggle. I can believe that number. Your maximum sales figures are capped by your price point, and the Cybertruck, as well as the S and X, are in that "Fully successful this vehicle will have sales in the mid-thousands" price bracket. I sometimes wonder about a world where those trucks managed to hit their $40,000 price points. For the Cybertruck it was clear that Elon demanded way too much (four wheel seering? Come on) to ever get close to it, but for the F150 it seems more like the price was due to Ford halfassing the production.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 10mo agoI take it that SpaceX looked at all the trucks on the market and chose the cyber truck to maximize investor value and do what's right for SpaceX.
- CursedSilicon 10mo agoI'm sure the usual detractors will be here to whine "Electrek is biased against Tesla!" To which I would ask: Is it "bias" because they simply report on Tesla frequently? Would it be "less biased" if they ignored Tesla? Obviously Electrek can't simply invent positive press for Tesla to report on. Putting that aside though. The Cybertruck by all measures has been an abject failure. Its production run was so limited that insurance companies refused to cover it [1] and the NHTSA took something like two years just to crash test the thing due to how few of them there were on the road. Combine that with 10 fucking recalls for absolutely horrific safety issues [2] and the company making the batteries taking a 99% slash in its $2.8 billion dollar contract [3] the thing is a complete travesty [1] https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/insurance-rejected-cybertruck-coverage-post-for-awareness-which-insurance-company-do-you-use.28851/ https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/insurance... [2] https://www.cnet.com/home/electric-vehicles/every-tesla-cybertruck-recall-thats-happened-so-far/ https://www.cnet.com/home/electric-vehicles/every-tesla-cybe... [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-12-29/tesla-cybertruck-flop-proves-costly-for-south-korean-supplier https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-12-29/tesla-cyb...
- 1234letshaveatw 10mo agoElecdrek's bias against Tesla is only surpassed by its gushing over any/everything China.
- aeternum 10mo agoFred Lambert (Electrek founder) was pro-tesla and was using his site to get a huge number of referral credits. Then Tesla changed the rules on that referral program. That's what triggered the beef. Fred sold all shares, took down all the pro-tesla articles, and posts nearly exclusively only negative tesla articles since. Seems both parties were/are within legal rights, but it is clearly bias.
- mebizzle 10mo agoLiterally the only people who can think that this dude is anywhere remotely objective is if you are already a Tesla hater; he posts qualifications in every title and always adjusts the wording and tone to be negative. Every Electrek's take on an article is him describing how he warned everyone about the Elon/Tesla heel turn as you laid it out. It screams confirmation bias but since he isn't a journalist there's no code of ethics he's bound to follow.
- 4d4m 10mo agoWhy was it so ugly? The front lightbars execution looked cheap and toy-like. Expecting awesome designs for future Ford electric trucks lets go!
- seiferteric 10mo agoSimilar complaint for the chevy silverado, why can't they just make it look just like the regular silverado?
- DANmode 10mo agobecause they want to avoid selling these things as long as possible! Same reason they shot the Volt in the back before it even hit the production floor. They want you to get made fun of by your foreman for driving it, so they sell very few, and they can shrug at the government, or whoever, and say “See? Toldja nobody wants any.”
- jandrese 10mo agoLooks are subjective, but what I don't understand is why they put an enormous vision obscuring frunk on it. The vehicle could have been considerably easier to maneuver in tight spots and safer to pedestrians at the loss of just some dubious storage space with no loss in bed capacity. Or it could have been the same length or even a little shorter and have a full 4x8 bed in the back. If anything the vehicle was designed more for aesthetics than for practicality. There is no engine up front. There's no need for all of that space in front of the driver. It's entirely possible to engineer crash resistance without needing 4 goddamn feet of crumple zone. They could have had both a crew cab and a full size bed. Or the short bed but a more practical size.
- to11mtm 10mo agoThe Lightning was done the way it was because they were able to re-use a lot of existing F150 tooling/etc and keep the R&D cost lower in the process.
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- billti 10mo agoI think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics hurt it quite a bit. It is such a distinctive vehicle with a strong association with Elon, that there was an immediate brand association. It may have had poor sales anyway, but it certainly didn't help that many folks on the left, who are typically the most 'pro EV', had a large 'anti-Elon' shift around its launch. That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. So many vehicles, especially in the truck space, are almost indistinguishable and lack any kind of imagination. Kudos to Tesla for trying to break the mold and push the category somewhere new.
- grouchomarx 10mo ago>I think the timing of the Cybertruck starting deliveries roughly aligning with when Elon got heavily involved in politics That and also it's just a bad product. >That said, even though it's not to my taste, I do admire that they dared to do something different and took a big gamble on it. A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one edit: agree there's a market for the raptor off-road tremor package thing, but it wasn't ford's first and they've been selling commerical trucks for 75 years. A true tesla f150 competitor would have sold like crazy, I think
- catigula 10mo ago>A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one I don't think this is actually true, most pickup trucks aren't designed for maximum utility. They're designed to sell a lifestyle.
- everdrive 10mo agoHeartbreaking but true. The most popular pickups today are not the most useful pickups. There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US. Pickups are a little bit interesting in this regard. For any given model (eg: Tacoma, Frontier, etc.) the more premium the truck, the worse it is at being a truck. Each feature you add reduces its payload, and in the case of the Frontier, you could drop from a 6' bed with ~1,600 lbs of payload on the base model all the way down to a 5' bed with ~900 lbs of payload for the most premium offroad model.
- Workaccount2 10mo agoIt's a shame the Lightning got discontinued. As an EV owner, it sucks that the main thing holding the technology back is misconceptions and misunderstanding, rather than actual practical matters. People think EVs are cars with tanks of electrons, and run aground the same way you would if you thought horses were cars full of hay. It's a different transport tool that gives the same results, you just have to know how to use it properly.
- mdavid626 10mo agoI disagree that EV-s are held back by misconceptions. More their price and range.
- ceejayoz 10mo agoThanks for illustrating the point.
- loeg 10mo agoThey have worse prices (higher) and worse range (lower, particularly for towing). These aren't misconceptions. (My only car is an EV that I'm happy with. But lying about EVs doesn't benefit advocates.)
- fullstop 10mo agoObviously this is slanted by tax credits, but the EV that I have shares a name with the existing gas model and was less expensive. EVs aren't for everything, but mine fits my use case perfectly.
- loeg 10mo agoI'd be interested to hear which model, because that's pretty remarkable.
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- godzillabrennus 10mo agoI wanted an F-150 Lightning when it launched. Demand was high enough that I was told I'd have to pay over retail. I did not buy an F-150 Lightning and bought an ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle. The depreciation of electric vehicles has made me appreciate those circumstances more and more.
- cmrdporcupine 10mo agoThe depreciation though has meant that used EVs are a bargain now. But yes, as usual, dealers killed an EV. Same story for so many EVs. They don't want to sell them. They saw their opportunity to milk and screw up a product they didn't want, because of scarcity, and effectively poisoned it.
- godzillabrennus 10mo agoTruth. EV's need less service and will kill the dealership model if adopted at scale.
- epistasis 10mo ago> Demand was high enough that I was told I'd have to pay over retail Meanwhile the article says "the Ford F-150 Lightning delivered approximately 27,300 units in the US." I wonder how much dealers lie about these things. They tell you that there's not enough of them to go around, then Ford cancels them, because of what exactly?
- bluGill 10mo agoThere were not enough to go around when it first came out. A couple years latter and everyone who wants one has one and there are plenty. This is normal for new cars - people who want the latest model line up to buy them as they come off the assembly line, then they all have one and sales drop.
- rootusrootus 10mo ago> Meanwhile the article says "the Ford F-150 Lightning delivered approximately 27,300 units in the US." In one year. Total was north of 100K
- throw0101d 10mo agoI've seen headlines / stories giving Toyota grief about not going 'all-in' on BEVs while many other companies did. It seems that the hybrid-first strategy has been working pretty well for them. (The 2026 RAV4s are hybrid-only with no ICE-only options, AIUI.)
- epolanski 10mo agoArmchair internet analysts think they know better than the biggest car producer in the world that reinvented the modern supply chain. "But look at Tesla market cap!!!" Toyota had the right intuition: focus on EVs when the global sales will make sense for it, meanwhile avoid throwing good money after bad like most legacy automakers did with EVs.
- dghlsakjg 10mo agoToyota is not immune to throwing good money after bad. They have dumped billions into hydrogen fuel cell research and production over three decades. Last year they sold more Venzas than hydrogen cars. Notably, the Venza was discontinued after the 2024 model year and those sales figures represent inventory leftover from prior years.
- epolanski 10mo agoYes doing business involves taking risks. Avoiding EV fomo when the market wasn't there was a good calculated risk.
- rootusrootus 10mo agoYou give them credit for taking a risk on hydrogen but not the manufacturers who took a risk on EVs? Interesting.
- mebizzle 10mo agoAlso conveniently ignores Toyota's quality slipping to shit in recent years
- erikstarck 10mo agoI'm as much of a Tesla Fan Boy that you can be but I have to say, the F-150 seems like a darn good vehicle and it's sad they're killing it. I especially like the V2X features.
- dyauspitr 10mo agoI have one and it is an amazing vehicle. However, what they are planning with their new EREV system coming out in 2027 seems pretty interesting too. You get your usual battery only mileage and then a generator kicks in to recharge the battery for longer trips. I would imagine it wouldn’t be required in 95% of most people’s trips but it gives folks the option n long road trips or heavy tows. I like it because it skips the usual hybrid approach of switching over to an ICE engine that drives your wheels in a different way and simplifies things immensely.
- jandrese 10mo agoI remember when Elon promised that they would have an extended range battery option for the Cybertruck, but then realized the logistics of such a thing are extremely challenging and quietly dropped it.
- rootusrootus 10mo agoI like the idea of easy additional range, but I use my frunk all the time and I don't think I'd give it up for additional range that would only benefit me two or three times a year. Along with additional things to maintain.
- epolanski 10mo agoWhat's there to brag to be a fanboy of a company?
- rootusrootus 10mo agoI don't think they're really killing it. The Lightning EREV is next, and my bet is it's almost identical to the BEV version but with an engine where the big beautiful frunk is now. Gives them something to sell the people who think they need big range numbers, but also gives them an easy path back to a full BEV. I kind of expect them to backpedal on the full cancelation and make both vehicles.
- loeg 10mo agoNo shit. The CT is ugly to most consumers' sensibilities, and not a "real" truck to most consumers in the truck segment. It only survives as long as it serves Musk's ego. But that's ok -- Tesla is Musk's company and shareholders are happy with that status quo. Who else cares?
- jandrese 10mo agoThe Cybertruck isn't a "real" truck, but the vast majority of trucks never do real truck stuff anyway so that's not as big of a gotcha as people think. Hell, even F-150s and Dodge Rams and GMCs have stunted vestigial cargo beds now, they're more like minivan utes. How many trucks can you buy today that can fit a standard everyday 4x8 sheet and a load of 8' studs in the back and close the tailgate?
- overfeed 10mo ago> but the vast majority of trucks never do real truck stuff anyway so that's not as big of a gotcha as people think. The whole point for those non-utilty buyers is the badass, tough-guy branding. Would a whiskey-drinking, steer-wranglin', meat-smokin', spur-boot-wearin', woodshop-havin', permanent-5-oclock-shadow BAMF drive a electric CT? No. Therefore the CT fails at the one thing they expect of trucks due to its lack truck aura.
- jandrese 10mo agoOh no. What if Elon's highly visible foray into right wing politics is an attempt to market his truck to people who would not normally give it time of day? Basically turn it into a rolling red baseball cap.
- loeg 10mo agoThe CT is even worse on these metrics than common lifestyle trucks like the F150.
- ortusdux 10mo agoI think the dealership monopoly is partly to blame. Dealers get more reoccurring revenue from ICE vehicles, so they are incentivized to not stock EVs and to steer customers away from them. Ford seemed to understand this and attempted a direct sale program for EVs, but they canceled it due to dealer pushback. https://fordauthority.com/2025/02/ford-ev-inventory-hub-system-scrapped-after-dealer-pushback/ https://fordauthority.com/2025/02/ford-ev-inventory-hub-syst...
- nilsbunger 10mo agoYes I think there's a real innovators' dilemma here for traditional automakers with dealer networks. Dealers make most of their money on servicing vehicles, not selling them. And EVs require almost no servicing.
- kristianbrigman 10mo agoI bought a used Audi etron a couple months ago. Agent was going to try to sell me a service plan and realized none of them apply to electric :) The downstream fanout of the auto industry is huge…
- Hamuko 10mo agoThere's still brakes, suspensions, tires, etc. to sell to EV buyers. Especially when EVs are so heavy that they have more wear on many of these.
- Izikiel43 10mo agobut nothing compared to the oil changes, filter changes, as well as an ICE having multiple moving parts, so more chances for something to break.
- seanmcdirmid 10mo ago> There's still brakes, suspensions, tires, etc. to sell to EV buyers. The brakes last a lot longer because of regen, everything else applies but is pretty marginal, although I had to pay BMW $500 to replace a tire on my i4 because of a nail. I could have shopped around for that I guess.
- BeetleB 10mo agoIt wasn't canceled for poor sales. It was canceled because it was too expensive to produce, and would not fund all their other EV/battery projects. They found a better road to profitability in that front.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- rootusrootus 10mo agoAnd because they have problems as it is sourcing aluminum for more profitable F150 variants. Ford lives or dies based on the F150, they needed to focus on higher profit margins on the trucks they could actually build.
- bottlepalm 10mo agoThis is the answer, CyberTruck achieved positive gross margins in Q3 2024. The F-150 never did. So the Lightning is canceled and the CyberTruck lives on.
- jillesvangurp 10mo agoExactly. Their truck was apparently quite nice but expensive. And then dealers made it worse by adding a hefty markup to that. It would have done fine at a much lower price point. But that would have required a manufacturing cost level that Ford could not deliver: There are a few reasons for that: - Ford designed this as a one off vehicle, not as a platform to build multiple vehicles on. So, a lot of the manufacturing process is making components in low volume just for this truck that they are selling in small numbers. It never hit the economies of scale where they could optimize and lower cost. - It's a big heavy vehicle that needs lots of battery. Batteries are expensive. - The tariff situation made importing components from Mexico, China, and elsewhere prohibitively expensive. Ford can't source everything they need locally just yet. All this drives the production cost up. When they launched the vehicle a few years ago, they were still able to import components. They had a shot at sourcing much cheaper batteries from China down the line. All that went away and locally produced batteries aren't as cheap. Another factor is that it's a product that was designed to be premium and more expensive than the ICE F150 in order to protect sales of that. It was forever going to be compared to that in terms of performance and towing capacity. And the combination of being more expensive than that while having less range and even less while towing is not a great selling point. Companies like Rivian or BYD that have no ICE truck sales to protect can operate differently. They simply make the best and most affordable vehicle they can without artificially making it needlessly expensive. Rivian isn't cheap of course but they sell well because it's a desirable product. And Rivian has done a lot of work to lower cost and is now introducing cheaper models on the back of that. BYD is cutting well below F150 ICE prices with their Shark truck. Because they can. Not for sale in the US of course but it makes F150 Lightning international sales a bit unviable. As a US only niche vehicle selling in the low thousands per year the Lightning had no future.
- throwaway85825 10mo agoRange extended EVs make far more sense. Smaller cheaper batteries but range benefit of a gas tank. 90% of trips are less than 30 miles.
- WorldMaker 10mo agoThey are the worst of both worlds: not enough battery range to satisfy on long trips plus the weight and maintenance headaches of a gas tank and engine, especially silly to lug that around if 90% of your trips are in battery range. As a 2012 Volt owner I think EREV was a great idea in the 2010s given battery tech and networks at the time. In the 2020s, they seem a weak compromise that I wouldn't recommend to people.
- dalyons 10mo ago& battery tech continues to evolve at high speed. China is already selling 1000v 5min charging evs. Semi solid state are shipping. 500+ mile range cars exist. EREV is going to be obsolete in a few short years, if it isnt already.
- pbmonster 10mo ago> especially silly to lug that around if 90% of your trips are in battery range The same argument works for large batteries, right? On 90% of your trips, you're lugging around several hundred pounds of battery you're not using. If you want to tackle the weight argument, you could always drop 40 kWh battery capacity from the truck. That frees up around 600 lbs you can now use for the genset. The maintenance thing is a real problem, of course. A 50 kW genset that almost never runs will be much better on mainenance than a classic ICE car, but still add significant maintenance cost to a BEV.
- WorldMaker 10mo agoWhich is part of why I think Range is often a distraction in EV discussions. The people asking for 600+ mile Range EVs may see those built because it always sounds like there are plenty of people "demanding" that, but the weight trade-off in batteries isn't going to make those great cars, most of that range will be "waste" given average trips. But it is easier to get to 600+ miles of range by adding more (and better) batteries than by making larger gas tanks and engines.
- testing22321 10mo agoJust before its release there was some press about a few high ups at Tesla who urged Elon to make a “traditional” looking pickup alongside the cyber truck in case it was a flip, but Elon shut them down hard. I’d be really interested to know if they’re going to do that. The tech is incredible and will filter into all vehicles in a decade or so (48v, Ethernet instead of CAN, etc)
- sfblah 10mo agoAny other tech? Because Ethernet and 48v don't sound "incredible." They sound "incremental."
- testing22321 10mo agoThey’re both things the legacy automakers have been trying to do for 10 or 15 years, but they just couldn’t pull it off without getting all the suppliers on board. Both result in much lighter wiring, saving money. The steer by wire is also very cool, but I don’t know enough to say if it’s justified on regular cars or a cost saving.
- UltraSane 10mo agoThe steer by wire that adjusts how much the wheels turn based on speed is by far the most innovative part of the cybertruck
- Facemelters 10mo agoHave you met truck guys? Truck guys call you gay for driving an EV. Yes yes, not all truck guys.
- rootusrootus 10mo agoDo you know how pickups became the most popular vehicle in America? By not being appealing to just one type of guy. There is no "truck guy", there is "everyone." (well, yes, there are some anti-truck people, but they're niche and mostly online).
- evan_ 10mo agoSUVs are the most popular body type in America, not pickups. Pickups always top the "best selling model" list, but there are only a couple models of pickup and dozens of models of SUV. If you total up all the SUVs, they sell much better than pickups.
- rootusrootus 10mo agoThat may be, but it remains true that pickups are extremely popular. They are not even slightly a niche vehicle, they are broadly popular.
- dzonga 10mo agoF-150 Lightning is better vehicle than Cybertruck - however Ford is a political company (not like Musk) as in the fortunes of Ford lie to an extent with politicians, unions etc so hopefully ford can turn the F-150 into an Extended Range Electrical Vehicle
- etc-hosts 10mo agoThe Musk suite of companies all exist at least partly to promote Musk's politics and policies.
- schainks 10mo agoI thought the F-150 was cancelled because their aluminum supply caught fire? https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a69147125/ford-f-150-lightning-production-pause-supplier-fire/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a69147125/ford-f-150-light...
- adolph 10mo agoAnd they announced the next version of the Lightning last month. People don't like that it isn't purely BEV, but I don't see the big deal. Unlike a traditional hybrid, the F-150 Lightning EREV is propelled 100 percent by electric motors. This ensures owners get the pure EV driving experience they love — including rapid acceleration and quiet operation — while eliminating the need to stop and charge during long-distance towing. https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/next-gen-f-150-lightning-extended-range-electric-vehicle https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us/en/articles/2025/next-ge...
- evereverever 10mo agoI love my EV, but for anything that needs the range they should have a super-efficient gas or diesel engine that can charge the batteries? It could be a much less complex engine. That said, they big car makers only chased the government incentives, which was a great reason to have them. Electric everything is the future. It is obvious (e.g. heat pumps, EVs).
- instagib 10mo agoMaybe they can sell them at the announced prices instead of the inflated ones. Used is selling around $40k with 20-40,000 miles. New started at 40k, went to 60k for sale, pre-order fulfillment fell off a cliff so it sunk to 56k, and settled around 50k. 2022: 15,617 sold 2023: 24,165 2024: 33,510 2025: “Around 27,300 units sold in the U.S” $4k-$6k per battery module replacement. Full pack $25k-$50k.
- dyauspitr 10mo ago8 years of battery warranty though.
- fnordpiglet 10mo agoAfter 10 years batteries tend to have about 80% charge retention and a usable life of 20+ years and have basically no maintenance for the life of the vehicle. So, economics work out well for EVs.
- chasing 10mo agoCybertruck is a gimmick. And the fad has passed. No wonder they're not selling well. And they don't age well. Most of the ones around here are starting to look... grimy. Or dingy. After just a couple of years. It's a poor advertisement for itself. And, yeah, then there's cultural eye-rolling. It's really the only vehicle I hear people openly mock when they see one... And that's not a Tesla/Elon thing entirely, since people don't have the same reaction to other Tesla vehicles.
- cramcgrab 10mo ago[dead]
- electric_mayhem 10mo agoUnless they come right back with a comparable implementation with a maverick/ranger type form factor, Ford is absolutely shot itself in the foot canceling the lightning. I’ve been Evie only for five years and have driven both the electric Silverado and the lightning. I bought the lightning. It’s fantastic. They are absolute idiots for discontinuing it.
- segfaultex 10mo agoAlso bought a Lightning. I use it for plenty of truck related things that don't involve towing and it's great. I like to target shoot on family farm land, and it's awesome to toss my steel targets and equipment in the bed and offroad to the area I shoot on (there's an area pretty far in with a sharp elevation change that's created a large berm). Or going to lowes to get a ton of fertilizer/plants/gardening equipment for my spouse. I also use it to commute, and it's even better at that (part of that is mine being the Platinum trim). Quiet, smooth, powerful, has Android Auto/CarPlay (unlike GM's products), etc. They really are a fantastic vehicle for those who don't need to quickly tow heavy trailers 400 miles. Especially on the used market. I think the issue was that Ford wasn't making much margin on them and they weren't moving sufficient volume to make up for that. (around 20K/yr avg)
- guga42k 10mo agoimho, CT is horribly looking car with absolute disregard to any aesthetics. everything else is secondary. it has vibes of Aztec. one of the worst selling car ever.
- parpfish 10mo agoI’m still shocked that the CT went into production. I’m convinced that the CT could’ve become a legend if they had just done a limited run of like 500-1,000. At that level, nobody would care if it was poorly built or worked well as a truck. It’d just be a crazy collector item that would go to car shows.
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- soperj 10mo agoThe Cybertruck was always the Homer car.
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- matthewfcarlson 10mo agoI do not understand why we haven’t seen someone take a cybertruck and drop a new body on top. I see “put a model 3 into x” on YouTube all the time. I would love to buy a cybertruck chassis with a VW bus or minivan on top (current political issues of Tesla aside).
- _whiteCaps_ 10mo agoThe Cybertruck is a unibody, not body on frame, so it would be a lot of work.
- rootusrootus 10mo agoNot only that, it's aluminum. The first bit of work would be giving it a real frame.
- cenobyte 10mo agoI would gladly own a Cybertruck if prices come down. Approximately 100k for a truck of any type is ridiculous.
- harrisonjackson 10mo agoI've owned a few F-150s over the last 20is years. It has the best fold up seats of any truck - entire back cabin floor is flat which is great for my dogs. I rented a lightning on Turo and it was amazing - planned on getting one as my next truck. I would drive a CT depending on price but they just draw too much attention.
- iknowstuff 10mo agohttps://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/check-out-the-rear-legroom-storage-space-w-back-seats-folded-up-and-huge-glass-roof.10618/ https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/check-out... Like this?
- driverdan 10mo ago> I would drive a CT depending on price but they just draw too much attention. That's your deciding factor? Not all of the other things wrong with it and the brand?
- sroerick 10mo agoAnother truck thread on HN, another 150 bad comments about how trucks are pointless.
- yread 10mo agoI find it funny that car discussions here are so much busier than computer discussions. I wonder if over there at the mechanics forum they spend as much time discussing their laptops and ignoring the drills and screwdrivers
- whamlastxmas 10mo agoIt's because people have a bone to pick and aren't actually invested in the car industry
- datahack 10mo agoThis is a case study in the failure of product market fit. There is tons of room for a low cost, high quality small electric or hybrid pickup in today’s market. Ford Maverick sales have been exceptionally strong, setting records in 2025 with 155,051 units sold in the US of A, up almost a fifth from last year. Tesla needs to make a product that people want, and continuing to try to sell one they don’t want just won’t work. Why not pivot and build the truck people are asking for? Otherwise, this program will fail.
- parpfish 10mo agoThey should’ve released the electric tuck for the segment that wanted the maverick. Even better would e been an electric lei truck, but I don’t know if you’d be able to stack enough batteries on one of their tiny li’l frames
- Izikiel43 10mo agoI mean, Cybertruck sold specially poorly, it's not a hard bar to surpass.
- rootusrootus 10mo agoFord sold more than 100K Lightnings. By many metrics that don't involve "compared to the best selling truck in America" that would be considered a successful run for a model.
- Izikiel43 10mo agoI will take your word for it, I have no idea what the metric for "good" sales is.
- josefritzishere 10mo agoAt a normal auto company the board would have fired Elon long ago. It's a shame too, because the right CEO could really turn Tesla around.
- whamlastxmas 10mo agoWhat evidence do you have of Tesla performing poorly as a whole compared to others in the space, and/or Elon not successfully growing the company at reasonable rates?
- ac29 10mo agoTesla sales peaked in 2023
- doktor2un 10mo agoShort term Ford thinking again, that’s why they’re losing to Tesla.
- burnte 10mo agoIf the Lightning OUTSOLD Tesla, is that really losing to them? Feels to me like an indictment of the scale that Tesla actually operates: an order of magnitude less than the big car makers. If Ford declares a truck that sold better than CT as a failure, it's because for their size it didn't sell enough. If that lesser number IS enough for Tesla, they're simply not a player in the same league as Ford.
- troad 10mo ago> If the Lightning OUTSODE Tesla This reflects a very common pronunciation of syllable-final Ls in English, called a vocalised L, but I've never seen it reflected in spelling in such a way. Very cool! I'm extremely curious - did you go for that spelling as an intentional stylistic variation, or was it a typo reflecting your usual pronunciation?
- doktor2un 10mo agoThe Tesla model Y is the best selling car in the world.
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- rootusrootus 10mo agoJudging from how many people seem surprised by my open frunk at the grocery store, saying things like "I had no idea Ford made an electric truck!" I think they could have done more to market it. I sometimes wonder if they really wanted to sell a lot of them.
- pas 10mo agothe dealerships did not want them, this already made it unlikely to succeed (towing range mania was the other thing)
- PNewling 10mo agoWhy did the dealerships not want them? (Honest question, I have no idea about any of this)
- testing22321 10mo agoDealerships only make money on “the back end”, which is servicing. Any vehicle that requires less servicing makes them less money, so they don’t want to sell them.
- rootusrootus 10mo agoThere is a hypothesis that dealers disincentivized salespeople from selling EVs due to a lower expected amount of service department revenue in the future. I work in the industry close enough to get a whiff of that and I never heard anything more than speculation.
- m463 10mo agoI remember when tesla was young and elon talked about selling electric cars through dealers. He said it would not work, they would not be advocates, they would prevent sales. And I think that is spot on. I also suspect internally the thinking is that the f150 lightning costs more to make than sell, which means it won't get strong advocacy. Thing is, I'm 100% certain years of tesla vehicles cost more to make than they sold for, just in the nature of developing new things.
- fortran77 10mo agoI'm surprised S sales are so low. I would have thought they'd be much better than the cybertruck.
- linkage 10mo agoCars are almost a niche form factor at this point (sadly). The Mercedes-Benz GLS vastly outsells the S-class, and the same holds true for the BMW X7 vs. 7-series.
- yndoendo 10mo agoFor people discussing about truck sizes, here is a good web sites that highlight the history of trucks and how they the cab size and bed size did a 180 [0]. [0] https://www.axios.com/ford-pickup-trucks-history https://www.axios.com/ford-pickup-trucks-history
- cprayingmantis 10mo agoI keep looking for good deals on a R1T, CT, or Lightning in the used market. To be fair they’ve dipped but not enough to make an amazing deal.
- exabrial 10mo agoI swear, Telsa makes cars for gamers. If you're not in this demographic, it's not for you. Ford, GM, everyone needs to stop emulating Tesla. Practical people do not want this. Unfortunately other automakers see this as the pinnacle of interior engineering; swoon over this and try to pull a "LETS REMOVE ALL OF THE BUTTONS, ITS WHAT CONSUMERS WANT" maneuver. All consumers really need/want is an affordable, repairable, minimalistic and simple vehicle. What automakers are shoving down their throats is touch screens, animations, ridiculous LED light displays, etc. Then they wonder why electric sales suck.
- apaprocki 10mo agoMy anecdata feeling from all the Tesla owners I know is that they stole customers wanting affordable, repairable, etc. from Japanese manufacturers and they stole customers who were luxury car buyers (Ford, GM, etc. weren’t even competitors) willing to forego some luxury for the EV.
- werdnapk 10mo agoI see many many F-150 lightnings in Canada (Quebec at least) used by construction people. Are there any country or more detailed stats on where F-150s were sold?
- pokstad 10mo agoUntil you solve the tow range problem of electric trucks, it’s going to be hard to replace ICE-based vehicles.
- hu3 10mo agoTrucks in general are doomed to decline in sales.
- porjo 10mo agoMeanwhile they're so high value, organised criminals are stealing them from driveways and shipping them to middle east: https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/family-suvs-stolen-across-brisbane-by-syndicate-using-keyless-device-police-allege-20260107-p5nsac.html https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/family-...
- lo_zamoyski 10mo agoNot surprising. The Cybertruck looks awful and scary, like something out of a nihilistic dystopian scifi film, maybe Mad Max. Hostile.
- LarsDu88 10mo agoAbsolute sales numbers are not the determinant of whether or not a product is sustainable. It's unit profitability. Ford was spending 17k per pickup on the battery alone. Larger sales flow can improve efficiency and unit economics but so can savvy engineering
- kazinator 10mo ago> Tesla is actively trying to hide its Cybertruck sales performance. Have they tried cladding it in flat, steel panels, to get it off everyone's radar?
- treebeard901 10mo agoIt seems China has won the race for EV dominance in battery technology and manufacturing. Probably not much the U.S. can do to catch up. From the insane oil needs of the U.S. Military to the gasoline needed for a functioning economy and transportation, China will be light years ahead in every category which will have huge implications for U.S. National Security.
- tirant 10mo agoI am not so sure about it. EV dominance is not only defined by battery technology but also by ADAS functions, driving dynamics and many other considerations also common to ICE cars. In Europe, Chinese vehicles are only selling in any meaningful quantities in the low and very low price segments. And that is mainly due to cheaper labor costs in China and very thin margins (something European OEMs are not interested anymore). When it comes to higher price segments, European OEMs and Tesla dominate clearly due to superior technology offerings. As an example, the BMW iX3 is completely sold out for months even before market release, as it’s the first car so far that has reached 1000km without charging (Debrecen - Munich). That’s not only a battery technology achievement but also aerodynamics and drivetrain efficiency, where BMW leads together with Tesla. The Chinese market is very competitive itself as well, and is clearly dominated by Chinese OEMs. Classic European OEMs are seen as vehicles for old people, and newer generations are opting for local manufacturers. Infotainment and ADAS are also driving customers towards Chinese OEMS, mainly because of looser regulation which allows Chinese offerings to edge what Europeans and Americans are offering at the moment. To the point that the big three, Mercedes, BMW and Audi had to switch their ADAS stack to a Chinese made one (Momenta) in order to not lose more customers. Battery technology is quickly becoming commodity and margins are thinning. Same as it happened in other industries: no one knows who is manufacturing their Samsung or iPhone battery. They might know about the CPU but they clearly care about the brand and the software experience. Cars are becoming not different. In Europe that software experience (including driving dynamics) is and will be dominated by European OEMs, while leaving the cheap offerings for Chinese brands. They might even recover long term in China if they can quickly adapt their software to Chinese needs. American OEMs will do fine, they either have high quality software offerings like Tesla or Rivian, or they can easily partner with American software companies to provide Americans with their desired experience.
- smetj 10mo agoBe it as it may, its aesthetics are so distinct it isn't for everybody. Also a big part of the target audience expecting to buy an utility vehicle have cheaper, proven and more practical alternatives. I guess the fact its not road legal in the EU doesn't help either whilst other Tesla models are quite popular there.
- erulastiel 10mo agoWhat sickened me is our quarry wanted to buy 5 Lightning F150s a few months after they came out and no dealer near me in DFW would even take an order because “the wait list is too long”.
- JimmaDaRustla 10mo agoThe GOP cancelled he Lightning - it's not irony that Trump is touring their plants a week or two after them cancelling the Lightning, while going all in on oil.
- tim333 10mo agoFord swapping pure EV for generator backed EV seems quite sensible. There's some youtube saying such vehicles have been a hit in China https://youtu.be/rTT5Wq49Ss4?t=286 https://youtu.be/rTT5Wq49Ss4?t=286
- 1970-01-01 10mo agoThe Cybertruck failed to sell because it is stupendously ugly. All other (technical) reasons are and were manufactured for political purposes. We're too itchy to stop picking at it, so we blame everything else we see and hear as an add-on reason, but really it was how it looked. Ford didn't cancel the electric pickup, they did even more research and decided the upcoming EREV F150 will eventually eat it's mother, so it is better to stop now.
- ragingregard 10mo agoIt's sad to see how much of an echo chamber hackernews has become, used to see a a decent number of users engage in critical discussion and exchange perspective, now threads like this are just a gong show of self-reinforcement. To give some weight to the above, this thread leans way too heavy into EVs being awesome and the main issue is "the people or industry" (misconceptions, misunderstanding, oil industry bad, etc) while backing that with "rest of the world is winning the race" (FOMO). Here's some counter points to a bunch of claims made in this thread: 1) EVs are not as practical as this thread proposes: - Battery degradation is still mostly an unsolved issue. 10% within 3 years is common on the latest models as reported by drivers, 15% within 5-7 years is also quite common. LFPs do better but provide considerably less ideal range. 20% degradation is the cliff, where degradation accelerates and lithium ion batteries are considered EOL. For cars that under ideal conditions do 500km - 550km that's not okay over the lifespan of the car where you want good performance in the 8 to 16 year range. In addition, average car on the road in the USA / Europe is at 12 years (many cars far above 12 years old). These batteries will be lucky to make it to 12 years so the average age of EV fleet will end up much lower than ICE (not great)(more disposable) unless you replace the battery. Battery replacements are $10k-$20k and poor warranties (4 years or less). Costs are not coming down for various reasons. - Actual cold performance (under -10C) is not good, there's no way to resolve this without increasing ideal range - Range is considerably lower at highway speeds than city driving due to energy dynamics, exactly the opposite of what users need. ICE cars have an advantage here because their power curve is non-linear and power output improves with RPM, RPM goes up with higher speeds in the final gear so efficiency improves for a portion of the curve. - Charging when living in apartment complexes or in multi-home units is not competitive at all with filling up at a gas tank, time wise or cost (unless subsidized). - Most people drive few miles daily but long road trips yearly, often to remote places without reasonable charging infra. Versatility of use cases is a core requirement for most car users and EVs are not competitive here. 2) Growth is not as significant and growth rate has significantly slowed down - EV sales are not at 30%+ of all car sales world wide as someone proposed in this thread claiming China is at 50%. China is at 50% NEV, which stands for new energy vehicle and makes up hybrids, BEV and EREV. EREV + hybrids are 40% of sales in China. That means BEVs are only at 30% of total which is what the rest of the world considers EV. World can't be at 30% EV sales itself as the rest of the world is far behind this sales % compared to China. - China is pushing higher EVs not due to tech superiority but for energy security for obvious reasons, i.e. a lack of traditional energy independence and rising geopolitical risk - Subsides have played a huge role in the growth and removal of subsidies will depress sales growth more 3) "rest of the world is winning the race" (FOMO) - No one has won this race because the tech is not technically sufficiently superior to the currently available. This will change when solid state batteries become common place, but the problems with the tech are hard with a long tail of issues so that's still many years away from being widely rolled out. This list is not exhaustive. Moving on.
- VerifiedReports 9mo agoSo what? They're from different companies with different product lines and economies of scale.