113 ms·
US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s
- EcommerceFlow 2y ago[flagged]
- DrNosferatu 2y agoThe EU should buy - or even license produce - Swedish Saab Gripens to help the Ukrainians resist. Low cost, simple to operate, and specially designed to fight Russian aggression.
- deeviant 2y agoThey are not low cost, they cost nearly as much as an F35.
- DrNosferatu 2y agoThat’s with subsequent production F35 batches / “lots”: then the Gripen can be cheaper too if made in larger scale.
- DrNosferatu 2y agoYou simply cannot trust US military equipment anymore. How do you know they won’t do to your equipment what they did to Ukraine’s F16s?
- geenat 2y agoCost per flight hour. Indeed though, F35 has become relatively inexpensive per unit, as intended.
- deeviant 2y agoCost per flight hour doesn't make nearly as much sense to focus on as you think it does in an active war.
- duxup 2y agoTrump administration is weakening the US faster than any enemy could.
- tomohawk 2y ago[dead]
- rich_sasha 2y agoRight now every buyer of American kit is feverishly evaluating non-US alternatives. Seriously, America, this is like Brexit but 1000x. A voluntary decision, taken with gusto, to chop off arms and legs and ears and fingers and whatnot, cut off the deadwood, be light and free, a lone vessel on the ocean of prosperity, free of the burden of the stupid foreigners who are the sole reason why everything was going wrong.
- eunos 2y agoEspecially F-35 where lack of American support means total brick. Hey, at least Ukraine can use their S-300 systems and Sukhois against their maker.
- bborud 2y agoThis is top of mind for all European countries that bought the F-35. They are painfully aware of this. So is the US defense industry which will notice softening sales kicking in a few years down the line as European countries are less inclined to buy US arms. This was predictable though. The markets have already rewarded those who saw this coming.
- eunos 2y agoBut if the EU has no 5th gen fighters then they'd have a hard time maintaining Air Superiority against Russia if they manage to mass produce Su-57 or Su-75 and I am betting the Russian can do it before EU can have 5th gen fighters or FCAS.
- postingawayonhn 2y agoThe Russian aviation industry has a terrible track record on delivering new aircraft.
- eunos 2y agoI'm willing to entertain the possibility that the Russian can improve the track record faster than the EU develops 5th gen fighters.
- 486sx33 2y ago[flagged]
- kklisura 2y ago> end the war Why is it that Ukraine needs to end the war but not Russia?
- m4rtink 2y agoThe Russian army can decide to leave and go to their side of the border at any time. It's more complicated than that (war crimes, reparations, all the people that have been abducted) but I still wonder why this is not being discussed at more often - it is totally clear who is the agressor here.
- kombine 2y agoFunny that you don't call for elections in Russia because we didn't have any for 20 years.
- Y-bar 2y agoHow can you even begin to hold a fair election when about 20% of your nation is occupied by a foreign power?
- dzogchen 2y agoDon’t forget holding an election during wartime is against the constitution of Ukraine. Also, even the opposition is against it.
- technothrasher 2y agoBeside the fact that it isn't practical, they would need to amend their constitution before they could hold an election during wartime. This is all also ignoring the question begging that the original poster was engaged in with the assumption that holding an election would end the war.
- 2y ago
- Escornabois 2y agoHello, Complete ignorant of strategy, international relations and power dynamics here. Is it nagging anyone else that the "Forbes Analyst" gets called Aks, Aske and Ax in just 10 lines or it is just me?
- brianbest101 2y agoBeyond sanity. The US breaking trust with the world will have repercussions for generations. This is a stupid decision
- anastasiapenova 2y ago[dead]
- k1kingy 2y agoDonald Trump really should leave his fragile ego at the door and continue to support the USA's allies at this time. People forget that it was Zelensky refusing to lie which led to Trumps first impeachment. At the very least this entire 180 and the attempt to humiliate Zelensky in the White House is Trump wanting to enact some kind of revenge. At the very worst him praising Putin, threatening to leave Nato, threatening other allies, moving troops out of Germany and into Hungary, et all just reeks of something more.. conspiracy theory or not it's pretty disgusting as someone looking in from the outside.
- michelb 2y agoI do not for a second believe Trump thinks this all up himself. I'm not one for conspiracies, but I'm wondering how large the group using him as a mouthpiece really is.
- apeescape 2y agoThat's the thing. Trump's actions make no sense unless you view them through the lens that he's driving the agenda of Putin. Then again, even if a global nuclear war broke out, some of his loyalists would still be convinced that Trump is playing some sort of 3D chess and that it's all going according to his masterful plan.
- Chance-Device 2y agoI used to think this, but now I think something different - isn’t Russia a useful domestic and geopolitical tool? Perhaps the US does not want for Russia either to be too weak or too strong, perhaps they simply want them to be useful.
- apeescape 2y agoBut would Russia's friendship be more useful than Europe's? I can see the logic behind strengthening ties with Russia to keep them from aligning with China, but Russia has proven itself an unreliable partner in the past, so you have to assume that as soon as Russia sees more benefit in fraternizing with China than the US, they'll turn their coats. The EU has been a pretty loyal vassal, even when disgruntled. But I think we've gone over the tipping point now. The US has shown it can't be trusted upon.
- smdyc1 2y agoPlaying right into Putin's hands.
- chii 2y agotrump is _in_ putin's hands.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- t4throwaway 2y ago[dead]
- meindnoch 2y agoTime for us in Europe to man up.
- k1kingy 2y agoThankfully it seems to be uniting the EU rather than dividing. Remains to be seen if they can get their act together though.
- eunos 2y ago[flagged]
- eitland 2y agoBetter than having to cry in russian in 20 years. Also, according to Perun, if Europe collectively raises defense spending to somewhere near 4,5% (I think, check last Sundays episode) it will outspend not only US but US and China together.
- eunos 2y agoMight as well adopt Songun.
- Kim_Bruning 2y agoHeh, North Korea is involved! *eg. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/09/europe/russia-advances-kursk-ukraine-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/09/europe/russia-advances-ku...
- TrackerFF 2y agoFWIW, all European countries combined spend 5x more on military expenditure, than Russia. And that's using old numbers, before Trump became POTUS.
- bufferoverflow 2y agoYet Russia has more brigades, more artillery and artillery shells, more nukes. The comment above is right. Europe needs to wake the hell up and increase military production 10X, even if temporarily. If Russians take Ukraine, they will force their population to attack the next country. Just like it happened with men of Donbass.
- finnjohnsen2 2y agoTrump just destroyed US advanced arms export. He is efficient at tearing things down, gotta give him that.
- actionfromafar 2y agoIt makes the US oligarchs comparatively stronger within the US though, with foreign backing diminished, which is probably the main objective of this circus.
- thewinnie 2y agoHow so? Isn't is way better when other countries heavily investing in your economy?
- bananapub 2y agobetter for who? I think everyone is underestimating the changes that are happening. Obviously if Trump wanted a prosperous USA, he wouldn't be isolating it, and destroying the federal government and wrecking scientific research and diplomacy across the world. but an overall poorer US with a permanent far right government under the control of a small group of rich lunatics is better for those rich lunatics.
- jfengel 2y agoI don't really care what he wants, but apparently tens of millions of Americans want isolationism. We have tried to make it clear that this will be an economic disaster, but they won the election and they get to make the decisions. So rich lunatics it is. Really sorry for Ukraine, though. We knew back in November that this meant certain death for them.
- stevenwoo 2y agoA guy who can bankrupt his own casinos is the opposite of whatever a good chief executive officer is.
- azalemeth 2y agoTrump is really a disgusting human being. I'm not a US citizen but this looks an awful lot like treason -- he is actively helping an enemy of the state.
- fellow_eng_25 2y ago[flagged]
- postingawayonhn 2y agoThis is an open forum. Put forward your solution to the war so it can be discussed.
- ncruces 2y agoTrump's is: Ukraine folds, because it holds no cards, Putin gets all he wants, and US companies can do business with Russia again. Russia a country who's GDP is between Italy and Spain. Surely worth it to antagonize all the other G7 members over Russia.
- ever5678 2y agoAhahaha. It's an "open" forum where? Parent poster got flagged, his post no longer readable (unless a user enabled flagged posts?) and you suggest discussion to them. This HN crowd is sarcastic!!
- eitland 2y ago> while hundreds of thousands get killed or mutilated? Most of them are russians in uniform, which, as tragic as it is, is a better outcome. The original invasion force brought tens of thousands of body bags and it is clear they weren't originally meant for russian troops. If you have any doubt, look up the pre written article that popped on Kremlins website a few days after the full scale invasion about large tragic but unavoidable losses of civilian lives. Or look at how the convoy that targeted Kyiv contained lots and lots of prison buses and how they brought mobile crematoriums. It is easy to sit safely here and comment. If you want to do something better get out and donate and help the fight.
- sovietmudkipz 2y agoI genuinely wish there was an understandable endgame for the USA. The USA seems to be throwing its weight around but I’m not entirely sure to what end. This headline/article is just one area where the US is behaving perplexingly. I understand that Trump wants Zelenskyy to sign the minerals deal and that implicitly there’s security guarantees. Fine there’s at least a through line. However; by demonstrating that the US is willing to revoke access to this war material during an active shooting war over some ego thing they’re showing allies who’ve invested in the US military equipment that they’re vulnerable to suffer this same fate. Now Europe is turning hard away from US tech. To some degree this is a good thing, I think, from USA’s POV. Trump has said it’s unfair USA spends the most on NATO and that member states should pay more (how many don’t hit the 2% target). However; the point was to spend their 2% GDP on American armaments. Now Europe is taking their demand and money and investing in domestic military equipment. Which will inevitably beg the question in the coming years if NATO, a US establishment, is to be made redundant? This US administration can’t seem to have their cake and eat it too. They want money, demand for their goods, but every time they act out they drive away their business partners.
- actionfromafar 2y agoWhat would you do if you were a team of US oligarchs with connections to the administration and wanted to increase your share of, and power over, the domestic cake? Tell me it doesn't fit. Edit: this story just dropped off the main page. Currently sitting at 85 points and 77 comments. It had position 2 or so, now it has position 79.
- ncruces 2y agoIf Europe collectively decides they must only buy French and German weapons, there's less US cake.
- actionfromafar 2y agoSure, but are these guys the kind who wants control over the whole cake or a smaller slice of a larger cake? Look at Russia.
- sras-me 2y ago[flagged]
- eitland 2y agoMeanwhile Putin became silent after he forced Sweden and Finland to reconsider and join. The threat to putin wasn't Nato om his doorstep but a partially russian speaking country becoming a successful democracy and joining EU.
- mmcnl 2y agoSomewhat surprisingly they are OK with Ukraine joining the EU [1]. > Ukraine has a sovereign right to join the European Union, but this “sovereignty” does not apply to military alliances, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said. https://www.politico.eu/article/dmitrt-peskov-kremlin-ukraine-sovereign-right-join-eu-not-nato/ https://www.politico.eu/article/dmitrt-peskov-kremlin-ukrain...
- sras-me 2y ago>Somewhat surprisingly they are OK with Ukraine joining the EU [1]. So this makes sense to me. Basically I think it is US that Russia sees as a threat (because may be US seen Russia as a major threat and wants to break it up).
- eitland 2y ago1. Kremlin says a lot of things so probably they also said Ukraine could join EU. The night before the full scale invasion they claimed they had no intention of attacking Ukraine. 2. Ukraine has the right to join whatever alliance it wants regardless of what russia means.
- rat87 2y agoThey very much are not. See the invasion in 2014 when Ukraine was not seeking to join NATO Ukraine tried to join NATO after the Russian invasion in 2014 but was not seeking to join it beforehand. Pro Russian propaganda frequently pretends the timeline was different then they actually was so they can flip cause and effect.
- dividedbyzero 2y agoToday it's Ukraine and F35s, who and what will it be in a year? I suppose European governments are taking a long hard look at strategic dependencies on the US right now, like the whole economy running on top of Microsoft and Google and other US-made SaaS. If all of that went dark at once, I honestly don't know how some of the larger companies I know could keep operating. They all have fallbacks for critical infrastructure obviously but those are US-made, too...
- jopsen 2y agoIn practice it goes both ways... Lots of critical things for the US is made exclusively in Europe. Lots of medicin that people rely on daily would be unavailable if EU/US trade broke down completely.
- generic92034 2y agoAdding to this: About half of the US companies over a certain size run on ERP software from an European vendor. And it is not trivial at all to change that, even if they wanted to.
- perlgeek 2y ago... and nearly all European corporations run US-made operating systems on some of their machines, many of which are critically important. A real untangling of the US and European economies seem both impractical and really inefficient.
- throwaway48476 2y agoAt this point it's inevitable, no matter the cost.
- Spivak 2y agoI feel like this overstates the importance a bit. Sure macOS and Windows can claim to be involved in a great many things but no computer system running Windows is that important and couldn't be replaced given you have quite a large amount of lead time before the software is inoperable. I've worked with airgapped Windows XP machines still in operation running scientific instruments. If you deleted Microsoft and Apple from world it world it would be a Y2K event but the world wouldn't end, it would just be a lot of work.
- pacifika 2y agoWhat’s the motivation, if the Russians have the strong cards in this upcoming peace negotiation the current administration feels the need to weaken the Ukrainian side equipment? Slice of the minerals?
- dashundchen 2y agoTrump/Musk/Republicans have taken the side of a fascist dictator Putin. Every recent move wrt Ukraine has benefitted Russia. Even if it means betraying democratic allies and decades long alliances. It is so shameful and disgusting.
- davidmurdoch 2y agoHonestly curious what you, and proponents for continuing to arm Ukraine, think should be done about Russia's encroachment into Western Europe?
- rocqua 2y agoWhat encroachment do you mean? There isn't much encroachment other than sabotage. Perhaps some financing of undermining political parties. There was significant encroachment of eastern Europe, but that has slowed down due to attention going towards the Ukraine war. The main goal in Ukraine should be to make sure that Russia has as little benefit from their invasion as possible. Luckily this is effectively wholly compatible with Ukrainian goals.
- davidmurdoch 2y agoSorry, I should have said encroachment towards the west, or really just "invasion of Ukraine". > The main goal in Ukraine should be to make sure that Russia has as little benefit from their invasion as possible But how? Is it mostly to prolong the war until Russia gets tired of spending money and resources on it?
- oezi 2y ago
- jopsen 2y agoI'm not sure Denmark is going to cancel our F35 orders. From a security perspective, it's certainly in our interest to pretend this isn't a big deal. And that everything is normal. But I'm not surprised that our prime minister recently did not leave out the possiblity of hosting nukes on Danish territory. Given the theatre in the US one could even say we'll need nukes to defend Greenland.
- realo 2y agoThe Donald wants Groenland ... After that, why not Denmark itself ?
- jopsen 2y ago> After that, why not Denmark itself ? Hmm, the US welcome to liberate us from sour tax burden. I suspect the invading force will surrender when they see the liabilities :)
- darthrupert 2y agoTrump probably is planning to cash in by raping the country of its mineral and oil wealth.
- arkensaw 2y agoI wouldn't presume to understand the bananas ideas of Trump and his kindergarten kronies, but I imagine they're looking at an inaccurately large landmass on a mercator projection map and hearing about the oil underneath and seeing dollar signs. On a map, it looks to be bigger than all of North America, although in reality its only about 1/5th of the size of the US. (although granted that's still a very large area that they probably see as 'up for grabs' since Denmark is small and far away and the US already have airbases there)
- tim333 2y agoI wonder if F35s will be like HP printers and refuse to start unless they phone home?
- DFHippie 2y agoPeople commenting here keep speaking as though Americans all decided to do this. Trump didn't even win the majority of votes of those who voted. And those who voted for him had only the most nebulous idea of what doing this would mean. It meant something like "Those people who never treated us with respect will get what's coming. If they don't love us they will fear us." This happens all the time. "Russia did X." "The UK just did stupid thing Y." "Why are Germans suddenly authoritarian again?" There are always lots of people who disagree with the actions of their government. Some governments -- the US government increasingly so -- punish dissent. Russians, for one, have almost no say over what their government does. Americans in general are not making these terrible decisions. Some cabal is, but even the Republicans, who have all the power at the moment, are mostly just knuckling under to decisions they know are terrible. I know it's tempting to blame and hate people as nations, but I don't think it helps. In fact, it's how we got here in the first place: firebrands telling nitwits that everyone in Europe or New York City or wherever hates them.
- chii 2y ago> Trump didn't even win the majority of votes of those who voted. he did win the popular vote this time, unlike last.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- eunos 2y agoStill below 50% (49% something) so technically not majority but plurality.
- ExoticPearTree 2y agoTrump: 77,302,580 votes / 49.8% of popular vote Harris: 75,017,613 votes / 48.3% of popular vote It doesn't matter it wasn't 50%. He actually won the popular vote this time.
- 2y ago
- whoitwas 2y ago[flagged]
- Chance-Device 2y agoI don’t think that’s the reason. Maybe there’s just too much discussion of the US and Ukraine. It’s understandable, the political situation at the moment is a big topic, it might risk drowning out other topics.
- eitland 2y agoThat wasn't the reason I think, rather than some people abusing the flag option to keep anything they don't like off the front page, thinking their personal preferences are more important than what everyone else votes. Please send a polite mail to dang, he is really helpful.
- walls 2y agoHe knows exactly what he’s doing.
- kortilla 2y agoIt’s more comments than upvotes. That’s a good indicator it’s a shitty topic filled with a flame war
- slavetoukraine 2y ago[flagged]
- ctack 2y ago@dang - why flagged?
- layer8 2y agoFlagging is done by HN members, not by dang.
- beveldropshadow 2y agoEverything nominally related to Trump is getting flagged, even comments. Several unrelated comments of mine went from neutral/positive to flagged suddenly. Salty folks, or maybe coordinated, probably a little of both.
- tastyfreeze 2y agoI've noticed the same. Wish I knew if it was real people or an army of bots flipping switches to influence visibility for someone's gain. You're right, probably both. Unfortunately the question alone makes HN have much less utility.
- saintamh 2y agoPolitics is explicitly marked as off-topic for HN in the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- acdha 2y agoThe guidelines don’t completely rule out politics, and in this case the topic is of interest here since it dovetails with other political issues of long-running concern in the HN community: who owns devices with outside service dependencies, right to repair, etc. The question of whether someone who physically controls an ECM pod can configure it feels a lot like the question about whether John Deere can prevent a farmer from configuring their tractor’s software or an IoT vendor can shut down a service without providing an alternative. One area where this is especially of interest is everyone considering their dependency on U.S. products. If you live in a country under military threat, questions like what happens if the first strike against Canada involved a malicious Chrome or Windows update or holding back a patch for a vulnerability the NSA wants to exploit is quite an interesting problem.
- tw2347288 2y agoI'm glad that this discussion finally takes place, even though the discussion is of course flagged. You can flag here, but the mainstream press has picked up the issue: "Can the US switch off Europe’s weapons?" https://www.ft.com/content/1503a69e-13e4-4ee8-9d05-b9ce1f7cc89e https://www.ft.com/content/1503a69e-13e4-4ee8-9d05-b9ce1f7cc... "Such is the concern that debate has turned to whether the US maintains secret so-called kill switches that would immobilise aircraft and weapons systems. While never proven, Richard Aboulafia, managing director at consultancy AeroDynamic Advisory, said: “If you postulate the existence of something that can be done with a little bit of software code, it exists.” In practice, it may not even matter because of how already reliant advanced combat aircraft and other sophisticated weapons — such as anti-missile systems, advanced drones and early warning aircraft — are on US spare parts and software updates." There you go, finally mainstream press and politicians are mentioning the kill switch.
- jopsen 2y agoYeah, not delivering additional aid for free is one thing. But retracting support is the nuclear option. Figuratively, because you can probably one do it once, so you better pick a good reason for doing it. And literally, because small European countries do now have to consider nukes.
- jcgrillo 2y ago> small European countries do now have to consider nukes It wouldn't be all that surprising to see Poland and Finland doing atmospheric tests in the next few months. Given that Ukraine gave up their weapons for a totally vacuous security guarantee it would make sense for them to build bombs too. 2025 could be the year of global nuclear proliferation.
- sidewndr46 2y agoI don't think anyone is dumb enough to restart atmospheric testing. If you want a subsurface test to be public knowledge, there's a pretty good track record of how to do that: invite the press. Pakistan, North Korea, India & others can serve as a good example. In fact, while most nuclear powers have dabbled in the idea of 'how could we conceal a nuclear test', it seems that only Israel is capable of doing it. That is an argument from the absence of evidence unfortunately.
- darthrupert 2y agoWill America ever be trusted again? Also, stop flagging news articles simply because they are slightly anti-Trump.
- jfengel 2y agoI don't know why anyone trusted us post 2016. Even with a sane President it was always clear that we were dangerously unreliable. And even if this insanity ends in four years it will always recur.
- 11235813213455 2y agoCould recent wars just be a worldwide plot for just accelerating economy (selling weapons, buying food, etc..)?
- mcmcmc 2y agoNo. War is bad for economies. It’s good for firms that produce materiel but on the whole is a net negative. Classic broken window fallacy. Killing your workforce is a drain on economic growth.
- tim333 2y agoI'm wondering if the deal with Trump and Russia is just favours like they find investors for his questionable businesses and he helps them or if they do have kompromat? Apparently in the days they were entertaining him in Moscow it was quite common to provide hookers and film things and given Trump's character it may not have been that hard to get him to go along. He always looks rather embarrassed with Putin. Also it could explain this stuff which is hard otherwise.
- icegreentea2 2y agoI honestly think Trump is just impressed by Putin. Like he loves the power that Putin wields and likes and wants that. Trump has consistently expressed his admiration of unconstrained power in all forms. It's not just a Putin thing, though I think there is a little extra going on with Putin. Otherwise, I think what Trump has said about Ukraine is more or less what he believes and wants. He wants there to be peace, quickly, so that he can be known as a peace maker. He wants to be known as the person who can do the undoable. His henchmen repeat it endlessly - "only Donald Trump could bring peace here". He does not care about the details for Ukraine, and he doesn't really care about the details for Europe - he's wanted to cut loose from Europe since the first term. In addition, there's probably quite a lot of personal apathy towards Zelensky specifically. Finally it's possible that his China hawks are also shaping his base tendencies to try to deliver a Russia-China split. But I don't think that Trump really believes in that, it's just the people in his admin trying to make something of this situation. And I don't really believe that even a peace favourable to Putin can deliver the type of split that the China hawks might dream of, at least within this term.
- devsda 2y ago"Trump is an alien impersonator trying to destroy humanity from within to make it easier for the aliens to colonize earth" That is also a probable explanation for what's happening, if you believe in UFOs and aliens. Sorry, I mean no disrespect. As a non-american and non-westerner, it's absolutely wild to see what people are willing to believe when it comes to Trump. Surely, there's a more rational and simple explanation for what's going on ?
- 2y ago
- TrackerFF 2y agoWho would have thought that the POTUS would be the person to kick foreign arms industries into sixth gear?
- pokstad 2y agoWell he’s been very vocal about NATO countries increasing their defense contributions. That doesn’t necessarily mean that the US needs to sell all the weapons.
- mrighele 2y ago"Trump Tells Europe to Buy American Arms to Keep NATO Strong". [1] "U.S. President Donald Trump complained Thursday that his country's decades-old security treaty with Japan is nonreciprocal, as he steps up pressure on allies to increase defense spending and buy more American products." [2] It's about buying more American weapons. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-13/trump-tells-europe-to-buy-american-weapons-to-keep-nato-strong https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-13/trump-tel... [2] https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2025/03/fd3521d51353-update1-trump-complains-security-pact-with-japan-nonreciprocal.html https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2025/03/fd3521d51353-upda...
- rocqua 2y agoWe're not increasing defense spending to appease Trump though. We're increasing defense spending because we realize a need for strategic independence from the US. Because for the comming 4 years, it's obvious that the US won't be a reliable partner, and might even be an adversary. It makes no sense for us to buy American if we need strategic independence from the US.
- bhaak 2y ago> It's about buying more American weapons. He's an idiot if he really thinks that his actions will result in this. European defense stocks are going parabolic right now.
- 2y ago
- regularization 2y agoI am tired of being taxed and having the money go to forever wars in other countries. Slaughtering Palestinians in Gaza, destabilizing Russia, and on and on. At least Trump is winding it down in one place. If Europeans think a hardline against Russia is important, then they can pay for it. We're on the other side of the ocean. This is why the Democrats lost. All they care about is war in the Ukraine. Bernie Sanders supports the war too, but at least he says a few scraps from the table should go to US workers. But he is thrown aside. The Democrats were for the Ukraine war, Jill Stein and Trump were not, and Americans voted for this. Americans voted for this, Trump is implementing it, and all the warmongers and war profiteers and neocons have left is some neocon press and downvotes here for the majority American opinion which screwy old Trump is implementing.
- declan_roberts 2y agoThis was a democrat/liberal position until 2016, and now it is exceedingly right-coded.
- otherme123 2y agoA lot of that is inherited from Germany not going fully armed again after II WW, and some capable countries not making nukes (Spain and Italy halted their advanced nuclear programs when the US pressured for it, offering them NATO coverage). How could the USA ask now European countries to not develop nukes? It's in the interest of the USA to cooperate and be part of defensive alliances. When USA goes to their wars and they ask for help, Europeans, Canadians and Australians oblige. If USA goes full isolationist, the rest of the world must develop their own nukes and their own forces. Goodbye to the dollar hegemony and the industrial military complex. USA fought hard with the USSR to achieve hegemony, and now that they got it they throw it away? If that's what US wants, it's OK, but I believe some people don't fully understand the reality or the consequences. The US citizen don't pay taxes for Europe protection; Europe citizens pay taxes to buy american weapons.
- regularization 2y ago> It's in the interest of the USA to cooperate and be part of defensive alliances. Bulgaria, Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Romania are in NATO. "Defensive alliance" means the US bankrolls and guarantees their security, there is no two way street with them, they can do nothing for us. Finland is the most ridiculous case as Stalin could have easily swallowed it up in 1945 if it was in Russia's interest to do so, with little a peep from the West. Them joining NATO in 2023 is an absurdity. A military alliance which should have never existed in the first place - which both Taft and former VP Henry Wallace said in the 1940s. > Goodbye to the dollar hegemony and the industrial military complex. Goodbye military industrial complex? Hallelujah! > USA fought hard with the USSR to achieve hegemony It's more absurd thinking. In 1917 Russia's economy was about Brazil's size. It was like an NFL team playing against a high school team for over a century. Russia barely even had influence over the communists in China.
- guerrilla 2y agoI love the irony that it's the complete opposite of "America First" in practice.
- sorokod 2y agoThe Danish air force is likely experiencing a buyers remorse about their batch of F35s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Danish_Air_Force https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Danish_Air_Force
- Sammi 2y ago"27 in total ordered; 17 delivered as of January 2025; 11 in Denmark and 6 in Luke Air Force Base for training purposes as of January 2025" Project is so far along that Denmark is probably stuck with them.
- sorokod 2y agoIf, and that is a big if, the US would allow Denmark or any other of their "allies" to suspend their commitments to the US arms industry. "The weak are meat the strong do eat."
- soramimo 2y agoThey can probably sell them to Russia or China a few years down the road at the current trajectory.
- sidewndr46 2y agoRussia wouldn't know what to do with them, given that they effectively do not develop weapon systems after the collapse of the Soviet Union. China probably has decent enough espionage they don't really need them, although it might make a nice political overture.
- soramimo 2y agoAnd to clarify, this was a bit of a tongue in cheek comment implying that the US will become friendly enough with the two big autocracies of the world so they will officially buy arms from US defense companies (in which case Denmark can pass those F-35s to them). For the record, I dearly hope it doesn't come to this, but right now I'm not sure.
- RandyOrion 2y agoWhen totalitarian governments all start applauding what you're doing, using what you're doing as a distraction from a bad domestic situation as well as a justification for their dictatorships, you should know that something is totally screwed up. Yes, I'm talking about the totalitarian governments of China and Russia.
- mistrial9 2y agoyou are talking about (edit almost) a third of the entire human population, as if you know better. Reality says - random armchair Western Educated Individual Rich and Democratic does not rule the day for a third of humanity by claiming some political imperative. More reality - the Muslim world is organized and very wealthy in spots. By confrontational and arrogant (see above) posturing and actions by Westerns, it drives power alliances to the Muslim world. So then there is one third of the actual population of the entire world, embracing the Muslim world economically and politically. Secondly and perhaps more importantly, the backdrop economically for all parties is substantially about Oil and Gas. In the USA, the Oil and Gas interests have gained the upper hand, and they know very well how to apply it. Oil and Gas industry has all the capital and all the ambition to expand, fortify and entrench for the next multiple decades. It is rarely mentioned in the provocative and divisive social "news" that fills the media in the West each day.
- RandyOrion 2y agoThe combined population of China and Russia is less than a fifth of the world (15-16 bn vs 80+ bn). Edit: should be 1.5-1.6 bn vs 8 bn. I'm only discussing Trump's behaviour and its effect on totalitarian governments, I don't have enough knowledge to discuss the rest of what you wrote. I think the recent series of Trump's actions against Ukraine have failed to send a message to totalitarian governments that matches his own words. This has nothing to do with how much of the population Trump rules.
- mistrial9 2y agoplease read this page: https://worldpopulationreview.com/ https://worldpopulationreview.com/
- tananaev 2y agoBuild trust for a hundred years. Then flush it down the drain in two months.
- vagrantJin 2y ago[flagged]
- mystified5016 2y ago> The US is an actual sovereign state, with democratic leaders, acting on behalf of their constituencies. At no point in history has this ever been less true.
- goodluckchuck 2y agoWhat are you implying? We had an election. People voted. What am I missing?
- eitland 2y agoDid you vote for alienating all your allies? Increase tariffs even more on allies than your supposed enemies? Massively increasing cost of living in US? Sending European and South Korean defense stocks through the roof while tanking US defense stocks? Eliminating free travel through Canada to Alaska? Becoming the laughing stock of every stand up show around the globe? Yes, I know you voted for Trump. Do you think you got what voted for?
- OKRainbowKid 2y ago[flagged]
- wqaatwt 2y ago> Do you think you got what voted for? They want whatever Trump tells them to want. Just look at how Zelensky was polling amongst Republicans before and after the “incident”. Specific policies are irrelevant, they’ll just pretend that they always supported all of the random shit Trump does from the very beginning (even though nobody knew that hose options ever existed).
- Gollapalli 2y agoThere’s a good reason for people to flag these posts. It seems like most folks in the comment section didn’t even read TFA. Per TFA, this impacts F-16s NOT F-35s Per TFA, the US is not actively “turning off” any piece of equipment, they are no longer providing updates (something with which we are all familiar. Per TFA, this means that the US is no longer providing active support in a country-vs-country battle of electronic warfare. Which is what the title and article says, and very different from what most of you actually READ.
- adamors 2y ago> Per TFA, this impacts F-16s NOT F-35s Title it about F16s > Per TFA, the US is not actively “turning off” any piece of equipment From the article: "the Trump administration has cut off vital support for their [the F16s'] jamming capabilities" What article are you reading?
- ExoticPearTree 2y agoExactly this: the US is not providing software updates anymore. The planes fly just fine. It is going to be tricky if they decide to stop hardware support - meaning spare parts.
- legitster 2y agoThe article pretty clearly explains how important the missile jamming feature is, and that Ukraine has to switch to other planes and equipment.
- Gollapalli 2y ago[flagged]
- actionfromafar 2y agoSo, to conclude, foreigners shouldn't buy F35s.
- pseudony 2y ago
- ryao 2y agoWhat stops the Russians from reprogramming their radars to switch to a different frequency every 5 minutes as specified by a CSPRNG? It seems like it would make the manual reprogramming of jammers pointless.
- mrweasel 2y agoSo in the article, they talk about the AN/ALQ-131 jammer. It needs to be updated by the US, to keep up with the Russia counter measures, that's what's stopping. At least the F-16 donated by Denmark will most likely have pylons from Terma (ECIPS), which should work with the CJS from Leonardo (ECIPS/CJS). Shouldn't be to hard for Europe to make the required pylons for the planes who don't have the ECIPS and for those that do, some of them might already have CJS installed. It's a problem for sure, but it's a manageable one.
- gonzobonzo 2y agoAnd the article itself appears to be making some logical leaps. It says it's getting its information from a Forbes article, but the information in the Forbes article is simply this[1]: > But the Russian air force could sidestep the jamming by reprogramming their radars to operate at slightly different frequencies. Under Biden, the USAF team might’ve kept pace with Russian adaptation by constantly adjusting the AN/ALQ-131s own frequencies. Under Trump, Ukrainian airmen are stuck with pods whose programming may soon be out of date. Some people were asked why this got flagged, by I think there's some justification for that given the fact that it's a misleading headline for an article editorializing another article, and that most people here used it as a jumping off point to talk about politics and not what was actually being discussed. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2025/03/07/france-to-the-rescue-french-made-mirage-2000-jets-could-become-ukraines-most-important-aerial-radar-jammers/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2025/03/07/france-to-t...
- cutemonster 2y agoThe Forbes article also says: > U.S. President Donald Trump has halted U.S. aid to Ukraine, including vital support for the F-16s’ radar jammers. > That could deprive the Ukrainian air force of its most important aerial countermeasures at a critical moment That does sound really bad, I think.
- Narretz 2y agoWell it's always good to be specific, but I think it was the only thing that the US did for the F-16, wasn't it? They didn't exactly support sending planes in the first place. And it's not gonna be the last wrench the US will throw into Ukraine's (and Europe's) gears. It all piles up.
- Waterluvian 2y agoI think this from French senator Claude Malhuret sums it up: This is a tragedy for the free world, but it’s first and foremost a tragedy for the United States. [President Donald] Trump’s message is that being his ally serves no purpose, because he will not defend you, he will impose more tariffs on you than on his enemies, and he will threaten to seize your territories, while supporting the dictators who invade you. I’ve thought for a while now that the U.S. has spent a long time building up subjective resources in goodwill, trust, reliability, etc. (you can certainly bicker about the details here). But with Trump, they’re cashing in on all of that. They’re selling the laptops and office chairs (sometimes quite literally) as a business strategy. I think there’s a fatal misconception among many Americans about where their prosperity comes from. They’re not special or exceptionally capable by any means. It comes from wielding tremendous economic and military power gently, preferring cooperation over conquest. My concern is that the consequences of the current strategy are too far into the future to act as a sufficient deterrent. It’ll feel like it actually works for a time. But then eventually everyone hates you and adapts to exclude you.
- glitchc 2y agoNo, I'm afraid you're wrong. US prosperity is rooted in its overwhelming military might. People dare not take it on for fear of reprisal. Those who occasionally try are quickly reminded through reciprocal action. US companies benefit greatly from secure operations and relatively laissez-faire domestic economic policies to grow into world behemoths. Don't kid yourself for one second into thinking that your safety and security are tied to some "Kumbaya good feeling" that random strangers have towards you. The stick may be silent most of the time, but everyone knows it's there.
- rincebrain 2y agoIt's both. The stick being silent only works if people believe you won't randomly start swinging it if they cooperate, and people trusting you not to swing wouldn't matter if you didn't have a stick.
- tim333 2y agoMeh. I think that's backwards. The US has a strong military because of its economic success. Same with China. Get rich first then buy guns.
- 9283409232 2y agoTrump has had it out for Ukraine since he tried to bribe them. Telling them to find dirt on Biden or he would withhold military assistance. They didn't go for it and it is what directly led to his impeachment. While Russia absolutely owns Trump, I believe Trump would do this even if they didn't.
- MaxPock 2y agoZelensky campaigning with democrats didn't help
- 9283409232 2y agoZelenskyy did not campaign with the Democrats. He met with both Dem and Republican senators throughout 2024.
- ta988 2y agoAnd the story continues. This means that no country will want to buy F16s. If you don't get support they are useless. They are eroding really fast the US shine and trust in the world. This is going to have a massive effect on the US economy, internal consumption will not save it. This is the end of an empire while its rich kings are golfing every weekend on the taxpayer dime using federal and local resources. I am really amazed there are still almost half of the people able to twist reality to defend what is a direct attack against their own personal interests (they have proven already that other's interests do not matter for them). This sounds like self-flagellation seen from the outside.
- samcheng 2y agoThe best explanation I've heard is that this (almost) half of the US population doesn't care if it hurts a bit, as long as it hurts the other half of the US population more.
- onlyrealcuzzo 2y agoNot half - but probably around 30%
- signalToNose 2y agoMost of politic seems to be about negotiating to keep a third of the population away from power. Because once they get in power they will trash almost anything in their path
- lolinder 2y agoNo, that's not it. I'm writing this from rural America in deep Trump territory, and people here are already struggling and have been for years. From their perspective they've been left out of the benefits of the global economy—the big cities and the coasts might be better off, but the middle of the country wants to go back to when they had opportunities and jobs for working class Americans. They're almost certainly wrong about the medicine, but their diagnosis isn't far off: globalization has not helped them as much as it's hurt them. Cheaper goods don't make up for dying towns. Edit: Downvoting people who actually understand Trump voters and try to vocalize their needs and perspectives just silences the voices that could be used to shape a better platform for the Democrats next time. You won't win elections by fighting a straw man invented by your echo chamber.
- theahura 2y agoObligatory: https://open.substack.com/pub/theahura/p/the-five-year-old-test https://open.substack.com/pub/theahura/p/the-five-year-old-t... Trump is constantly failing the five year old test. A child could tell you that this is the wrong thing to do.
- grej 2y agoEuropean defence companies are about to see the biggest demand boom of our lifetime.
- pydry 2y agoThe Soviet arms industry experienced a similar boom in the 1980s due to an eye wateringly expensive arms race with America. Spoiler alert: it did not end well for them. Putin is setting another trap.
- tim333 2y agoI'm not sure how this plays out as Putin setting a trap? This is probably going to be a bit expensive for European taxpayers, myself included, but we'll get by. Russia on the other hand may have issues similar to the 80s/90s if we get serious with sanctions on shipping oil.
- throwccp 2y ago[dead]
- bigyabai 2y agoI think you misunderstand why exactly the USSR's weapon production hurt them. There were a number of circumstances that were specific to the Soviets that made their decisions uniquely self-destructive: 1. They already had an enormous weapon stockpile from the 60s and 70s that was becoming rapidly outdated, and was manufactured with few basically no limit on the unit count being made, resulting in tens-of-thousands of surplus weapons being funded by the state and the economy bending to support an oversized MIC. 2. Soviet Russia had a struggling economy in the 60s and 70s, and an almost nonfunctional one in the 80s. The idea of developing new digital weapons was basically trashed, and the "next generation" Soviet weaponry became the surplus analog stuff they stockpiled. Research and prototyping ground to a halt as Russia lost self-sufficiency on the technology that mattered. 3. The Soviet-Afghanistan war weakened the USSR's traditional force composition to the point that it was doubtful they could fight a traditional war, even with a relatively untrained adversary. Thousands of Soviet soldiers died to prove that Russia's doctrine wasn't going to win a pitched battle against a well-funded enemy. Europe already avoided over-arming themselves like the USSR, they have a modernized economy, and they aren't fighting proxy wars against forces they can't beat. As an American citizen I'm more concerned with our own country resting on it's laurels, struggling to modernize it's supply chain and threatening to fight wars in the Levant with no clear goal.
- Chance-Device 2y agoI think I’ll use this thread to make a prediction. At the end of Trump’s term: - Europe will still be using F-16s and F-35s - The US will still be in NATO, and will still be actively committed to the alliance - European defense spending will be massively higher, with manufacturing and supply chains that are far less easily disrupted - The US forces deployed to Europe will still be there, but will be bolstered by more European troops - Russia will have maintained its status as simultaneously a threat and a non-threat - Whatever the outcome in Ukraine, suddenly, nobody will care. The media won’t talk about it, people will have largely forgotten, and some other controversy or distraction will be the story of the day. All of which will nicely serve the broader long term interests of the United States. As it always is, no matter who is in the White House.
- kragen 2y agoDo you have reasoning to support this improbable conjunction, or are you just seeking to bet money?
- Chance-Device 2y agoThe strategic interests of the US stay the same. All of this is posturing which will only improve the alliance which the US leads. Carrot or stick, this president or that president, certain things don’t change. All that changes is the implementation.
- kragen 2y agoJohn Bolton, Vladimir Putin, Emmanuel Macron, Friedrich Merz, Wesley Clark, and Justin Trudeau seem to be unanimous in their assessment that the things you are saying "don't change" just changed. Of course they could be wrong, or lying, but they certainly aren't acting in concert.
- Chance-Device 2y agoLook what’s happened: the Europeans are now unanimous on the idea that European rearmament is necessary for survival, and have a political environment that allows them to sell that idea to their electorates. Electorates that historically have been opposed to spending on military over healthcare and social programs. And once that rearmament happens, or is underway to an extent that it’s irreversible, what is the US going to do? They’ll simply resume the same leadership position they always held, but now over a greatly reinforced alliance. And the Europeans will say, thank goodness the US is back. Aren’t we all safer now.
- 34679 2y ago[flagged]
- MeetingsBrowser 2y ago"Video of Zelensky Saying Thank You to America 94 Times Goes Viral" https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/international-relations/video-of-zelensky-saying-thank-you-to-america-94-times-goes-viral/ar-AA1Af56p https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/international-relations/v...
- hollywood_court 2y agoCongratulations to Russia for winning the Cold War I guess.
- simion314 2y agoI remember when Europe was launching stuff in space and USA americans were calling this stupid and wasteful, they demanded Europe give th money to Elon
- lucasyvas 2y agoI find some of the comments I’ve read today in this thread somewhat enlightening - there is intelligent conversation about the capabilities of the American hardware and its software. The sophistication of the F-35 cannot be debated. But the rest of the world doesn’t trust the US anymore, so it doesn’t matter how good it is - people would gladly explore a worse product because they see it as lower risk. That’s the reality of where America is at the moment. There are many Americans on Hacker News (if not the majority) and naturally the merits of the product that America produces are being discussed, and its superiority is front and center. This viewpoint is not relevant to the rest of the world. We don’t want the US’ stuff anymore and the only thing that can save that relationship is full software control. If America wants to make sales it needs to adjust to that expectation, or buyers are going elsewhere. The argument is missing the forest for the trees - the relationship is more important than the product itself. The sooner that is acknowledged the more likely a political course correction is possible. Otherwise, sure, you might see a few short term F-35 sales conclude. But the purchasing will stop as soon as it can.
- titzer 2y agoIt's only been 2 months. America in free fall.
- childintime 2y agoMiddle finger politics at work, brought about and cheered on by evangelical christians.
- dgfitz 2y ago[flagged]
- surge 2y agoThis is a political bubble view if I've ever seen one. Evangelical Christians (those that are practicing and going to church regularly and very zealous in their beliefs) make up a tiny minority of those currently aligning with the right, and many are fervent never Trump'ers and prefer a Romney or Bush type Republican. They've simply lost their voice within the party. Most "conservatives" are okay with gay marriage and abortion up to a 22-24 week term (about the point where the fetus can experience pain). Devout religious practice by every survey and measure has fallen into the minority in the US and the country is largely agnostic at best if not in profession, then in practice. They don't care about the The middle finger is by a larger portion of the working blue collar middle class that has had their economic base wiped out by free trade or trade policies like negative tariff's (ex: China subsidizes shipping of products to the US, hiding the true costs and incentivizing higher carbon/energy consumption practices like shipping raw products overseas to be processed and shipped back, its why you can ship something from Shenzhen for 30 cents when it costs $50-$80 to send the same small item the other way). The few manufacturing facilities and industries here view this as a hostile predatory business practice, similar to when Walmart or chain moves in, cuts prices to cost/loss, drives local competition out of business, then raises prices after they're gone to at or above what the prior businesses sold at. You'll never see this reported on because its a practice that benefits the very rich and people in cities who like cheap goods and don't care where it came from. They view this trade war as a return shots to a war or attacks that's been ongoing for 20 years. If you frame this as anything outside of working class politics or rural vs metropolitan you're still viewing politics from a view point of 30 years ago. People in rural or less populated areas don't care if people in NYC pay more for goods. They've had their entire economic infrastructure ripped out from under them and were told to learn to code or move to an expensive city or something after they're already barely surviving. They've seen the cost of living raise as they're outcompeted in lower cost housing segments by an influx of migrants who need housing and buy up/rent out the few affordable lower cost areas of a city or location to live. Meanwhile everyone living in the nice neighborhoods thinks its all racism and enjoys the novel new ethnic restaurants popping up. They're experiencing none of the downsides and all of the upsides so find it easy to say its entirely xenophobia. People not affected by it at the same levels in academic or corporate jobs are able to talk in idealist terms about how great these things are because they don't have to deal with the base realities of the issue or fentanyl epidemic, etc. So yes, that segment of the population is very much in a mood of "if we have to suffer, you'll suffer too until you start giving a shit about us instead of entirely what just benefits you". Whether or not this is entirely correct or nuanced doesn't matter. That's the overwhelming sentiment. If you still keep thinking of politics from the viewpoint of what's discussed in bars and dinner tables in cities with a population >500k or everyone in your friend group has a 4 year degree and gets their politics from major outlets, you're dealing with outdated information and context. Even highly educated conservative pundits who live in high population density areas don't get it and have struggled to catch up with the huge shift over the last 10 years.
- syntex 2y agoI wonder why Poland is still buying F35 and other European countries.
- preisschild 2y agoBecause it's the only mass-produced (and thus relatively cheap) 5th Gen fighter that gives you a lot of advantages over 4th Gen and it will likely take at least a decade before mass-produced EUropean alternatives are available. But yeah, actual experts with access to hardware should validate if there is a kill switch and if replacement parts / weapons could be reverse engineered before buying any more.
- fpoling 2y agoPoland was already pissed off with US arm industry under Biden with slow deliveries of US weapons and started to order more and more from South Korea. I guess it will only accelerate.
- iamsanteri 2y agoHahahaha, do they even know what they are doing to their US hegemony?! This kind of short-term thinking leads to the US enemies laughing all their way into the bank. They don‘t even understand what they‘re losing here. If they don’t try to path-correct very soon this is the beginning of a gradual decline. Is the current U.S. leadership really that afraid? There is no reason to act like this otherwise. Or this is some very very incredibly smart way of ”peace through strength”. Go figure and good luck all.
- yimby2001 2y agoThey aren’t even useful the anti-air is too good for either side to use jets
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- fvrther 2y agoFrance sending jets while the U.S. waves the white flag? Looks like the surrender baton just got passed westward.
- nxm 2y agoSigh… a few jets can’t compare to level of aid American tax payer has given the past few years. More than OK with France finally doing something.
- Etheryte 2y agoEurope has given more aid to Ukraine in total numbers than America if I'm not mistaken? So I'm not really sure if I see what you mean.
- DFHippie 2y agoYes, Europe has given more aid overall. And certainly much more per capita in many countries. The US has given more military aid, but not that much more.
- TiredOfLife 2y agoAnd part of European aid has gone directly to US economy to buy stuff for Ukraine.
- altacc 2y agoThe US' contribution has been incredibly significant and the war would have gone very differently without US support but the idea that the US has contributed most money is false and driven by hubris. There's various ways of tracking support and by many metrics there are European countries that have given more than the US once you account for population & GDP. It gets more complicated for EU members as the EU has given financial support, so the largest funders of the EU, like France, have paid proportionally more via the EU than directly. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s... https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/these-countries-have-committed-the-most-aid-to-ukraine https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/these-co... Also worth remembering that 70% of that aid from the US never left the US and was spent on procuring weapons from the US. https://econofact.org/factbrief/does-most-u-s-aid-to-ukraine-go-to-u-s-companies-and-workers https://econofact.org/factbrief/does-most-u-s-aid-to-ukraine...
- Springtime 2y agoThe article is written to give the reader the impression only the US can reprogram the jamming system and the comments seem to mostly be taking it at face value. In the very Forbes article the OP's article cites it links to info about this F-16 reprogramming effort[1], showing it was collaboration between the US/Norway/Denmark and that the US electronic warfare team wasn't familiar with the system, yet within two weeks they say they managed to reprogram them to meet the initial deadline. > The 68th EWS assembled a dedicated team comprised of a mixture of seasoned experts and bright, young engineers to approach the reprograming challenge. Their first task was to understand the unfamiliar EW system and how to reprogram it. > Relying on data provided by Denmark and Norway, then adapting new processes and approaches to the usual process, the team was able to understand the system and start their work. > After understanding the system, the 68th EWS deviated again from normal methods and sent its members overseas to a partner-nation lab to collaboratively develop and test the system alongside coalition teammates. [1] https://www.dvidshub.net/news/479401/dominate-spectrum-350th-sww-enables-ew-capabilities-ukrainian-f-16s https://www.dvidshub.net/news/479401/dominate-spectrum-350th...
- TheBlight 2y ago[flagged]
- gizzlon 2y ago> hysterical leftists How so? As an European and quite pro-US for a long time, i have turned quite sharply against, for example, buying US weapons.
- asynchronousx 2y agoWe would love to see Europe develop a military spine for once, I’m excited to see how long it takes before they come crawling back under the wing of the US.
- gizzlon 2y ago> come crawling back It was Trump servered the relationship. Also, who wants to make deals with someone who can't be trusted to follow through. What's the point? Would you sign a 10 year deal with someone who keeps ripping it up and changing their mind every 3 weeks? What's the point?
- ea550ff70a 2y agoFckd up
- joshdavham 2y agoRegarding flagging: I think the worry is that, with all the political news constantly generated by Donald in the white house, HN might get submerged by politics constantly rather than the hacker-related stuff we all come here for.
- ifyoubuildit 2y agoThat and the discussions are basically devoid of any new info or insight. If you were to take a random comment from each of these threads, youd probably have a hard time telling which came from where.
- jmward01 2y agoTrue. This post is just being used as a reason to continue previous threads with very little connection to the submission. I am of two minds on this. The first is 'I want my life to be about cool tech and interesting ideas' and the second is 'This is a critical moment in history so people need to discuss it more than anything else'. At this exact moment I lean towards the latter so I think it is, unfortunately, important to get everyone out into discussion and action even in discussion forums like HN.
- joshdavham 2y ago> This is a critical moment in history so people need to discuss it more than anything else You may be correct on this, but I'm trying to keep in mind that we still have 4 more years of this and I think this may sorta be the new normal for the time being. I'd hate to see HN get distracted by every new drama Donald gets himself involved in till 2029.
- iancmceachern 2y agoOther countries who fly then will fill in the gaps. They may start making replacement parts themselves, that's what I would do if I were them.
- tehjoker 2y agoMy suspicion is Trump is putting pressure on Zelensky (a) because he hates him personally and (b) because he wants an even bigger mineral rights deal. The thinking being, let Zelensky stew in it without U.S. help and suffer some humiliating defeats and let him come crawling back to the table so that he can sell of the majority of his country to the Americans, far more than the Russians will ever get.
- iw2rmb 2y agoIt's because Russia is on the verge of economic collapse and Putin forces Trump to cancel sanctions critical to them. At this point, Russia got maximum from this war. These rare minerals deal is just to distract and it's nothing compared to oil, manganese and soil Russia will capture. Also, I'm struggling to find any reason for Zelensky to sign the deal – no protection, zero chance to get land back. Just thrown under the bus. EU is better option.
- netsharc 2y agoIt's 2 assholes friendly with each other sharing the spoils of war: Putin gives Trump the opportunity to brag about bringing $500B to the US/maybe it'll be today's Halliburton that'll get the mining rights, for a donation to the new Trump Mansion, and Putin gets everything else.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- niemandhier 2y agoCould there be an orchestrated effort by volunteers to replace what the Americans were doing or does this rely on intelligence insight the Americans have? In country if 40 Million desperate people as educated as the Ukrainians there should be quite the talent pool to try to hack this.
- hkyu12 2y agoSo much warmongering going on here. The site where majority used to call to end US as world police, stop interfering and instigating overthrowing government now wants the opposite. This site is surely astroturfed or suddenly people have turned violent.
- lif 2y agoI can assure you that there would never be any chance of paid shill brigades shouting down opposing viewpoints on HackerNews. Instead, as I have been informed many times, posts critical of Trump are being flagged. The posts that make it through then naturally are flooded with independent thinkers who just happen to all be in agreement. I mean, how could you not agree with them, right? Those who disagree about this particular topic obviously deserve whatever they get here. That's why ad hominem rules do not apply to them, and there is no need to be civil when replying to Russian trolls such as them!! If astroturfing were happening, it would show up as most anyone critical of the astroturf comments being downvoted and/or flagged into grey oblivion, while the astroturf brigade would present as an unusually large number of comments that all agree with each other. Anyway, I have been keeping track for a small study I a doing on information warfare, and look forward to presenting my research on this. Am still gathering screenshots and other data. So far, I am in awe at the deep thinking and high level of civil discourse on display here. I really like that folks here show respect even to those who disagree.
- hkyu12 2y agoDeep thinking, civil discourse? Your comment even indicates that if you disagree you are russian troll. How come a left leaning site become a rabid warmongering right leaning one. It seems like left and right switched sides on some issues.
- retrorangular 2y agoMany here are anti-war, not pacifist. They disliked the US starting wars. Likewise, they dislike Russia starting wars. That's neither astroturfing nor people turning violent. Quite the opposite: many abhor violence, and letting people invade other countries without consequence does not lead to a world with less violence. People don't want the US to interfere with domestic politics in Ukraine, they want it to help the national government that has overwhelming support from the local populace fend off an invasion from a foreign nation. They're not in favor of overthrowing the government, they want to prevent that very thing from happening.
- abujazar 2y agoI guess the Danes (just like us Norwegians) think the choice of F-35 rather than neighbouring allies' planes was wise... In contrast to the F-16, one can only assume that Trump & co can basically disable the F-35 or at least render it completely useless for battle. Norwegian operation of the F-35 is even completely dependent on American personnel for years to come.
- bsdice 2y agoUsed to be "buy cheap, buy twice", now it's "buy American, buy twice". One step could be to replace what Israel replaced, for more independance. Wouldn't buy their solution though, they sell bad pagers. Trump has the soccer world cup in USA soon. Spectators could make it hell, boo the USA anthem at every game. I think they will.
- cornhole 2y agocapitulation will not bring peace
- ReptileMan 2y ago[flagged]
- I_am_tiberius 2y agoI wonder when European founders start switching from Azure/AWS/Google to domestic alternatives. I feel the risk of being thrown out all of the sudden increases every day.
- jacquesm 2y agoAlready happening in multiple places.
- serpix 2y agoSo is it going to be Kubernetes as the IaC stack from now on? I'm asking as a heads up as I foresee a potential major demand for infrastructure migrations in the future.
- KaiserPro 2y ago> going to be Kubernetes as the IaC stack Not unless its heavily modified to scale past 10k nodes sensibly. its security/secrets model also needs a boatload of work before you can think about hosting untrusted parties on your kit.
- perlgeek 2y agoI work for one of the domestic alternatives. Guess where our network gear vendors are? (Currently using mostly Arista, but also some Juniper core routers, used to have Cisco gear too). Guess where our OS is being sold from? (Even when use Linux, much of it is RHEL). We use VMWare products (yep, US), and Openshift (RHEL, also US). We use F5 and A10 load balancers. Both US. There's sooo much off-the-shelf hardware, software and firmware from the US; replacing one of them would be a big to huge integration project; replacing them all would be an endless nightmare, especially if the only alternative is from China. If there even is a practical alternative.
- darkhorn 2y agoDefinatly going to happen for critical infrastructure, especially when there is a Russian asset at the head of the States.
- m3kw9 2y agoAmerica is turning into Russia in real time right now, it’s nuts and a lot of people is saying Trump is playing 6D chess
- d_burfoot 2y agoThe Ukraine Today article seems to be a copy of this Forbes article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2025/03/07/france-to-the-rescue-french-made-mirage-2000-jets-could-become-ukraines-most-important-aerial-radar-jammers/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2025/03/07/france-to-t... For additional context, here's an article from August about how the USAF helped to upgrade the F-16 electronic warfare capabilities: https://www.airandspaceforces.com/ukraine-f-16-electronic-warfare-us-air-force/ https://www.airandspaceforces.com/ukraine-f-16-electronic-wa... The words "lose support" is carrying a lot of weight in this reporting.
- matt-p 2y ago"why did everyone stop buying our planes and weapons"
- maelito 2y agoFrance's Rafales just had an incredible sale boost.
- HumblyTossed 2y agoThe US has been compromised by Putin. It’s very clear for all to see.
- anuraj 2y ago[flagged]
- przemub 2y agoSure, if we had kept Berlin Wall up and Soviet Union alive then Western liberal democracy would be in a much better state, tech bros would not exist and everyone would be rich, young and beautiful. Please get a grip.
- bitcurious 2y agoIf your "energy security" is dependent on a belligerent state, you don't have energy security. This was something Trump himself has repeatedly criticized the Europeans for, so if you lead with "Trump was right" follow that thread.
- anuraj 2y ago[flagged]
- ozgrakkurt 2y agoI don’t understand, why does the government of US has to give support for privately manufactured weapons. The company that sells the weapons should do that right? Also what does US gain if all countries are using f16?
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago1. ITAR, 2. They get money.
- davethedevguy 2y agoThis seems like a huge own goal for the US. Who will want to buy American military technology, when the ability to employ it is at the whim of whoever wins the next election? Especially as it's clear now than any alliance with the US is fragile at best, and could end overnight depending on which side of the bed Trump wakes up on.
- mahkeiro 2y agoThis will soon be not only limited to military technologies
- jacquesm 2y agoToday your aircraft, tomorrow all your mobile phones. I'm pretty sure those could all be remote bricked.
- bigyabai 2y agoNuh uh! Hacker News told me that American businesses have the ultimate moral imperative to cease operations in any country that demands invasive control of my devices. Surely my smartphone OEM would fight the entire American government before handing over my data.
- zapnuk 2y agoLet's assume a Russian asset somehow becomes President of the USA. What would he have done? How would he weaken the USA and strengthen Russia? At this point, I don't see a difference between Trump + GOP (leaders) and actual traitors.
- ssssvd 2y ago[flagged]
- shmerl 2y agoDoes anyone still have any doubts that Trump is helping Putin? He consistently helps Russian fascists using "boiling the frog" method to avoid doing it too rapidly. But it's still glaringly obvious. Everyone who for voted for this scum should be blamed.
- ibspropaganda 2y ago[flagged]
- paulsutter 2y agoAm I reading this right? Nothing has been disabled, they're no longer sending frequency updates? Not even clear if this is related to the current spat. > the Biden Air Force was able to keep up with the Russian adaptation by constantly tweaking the AN/ALQ-131 frequencies, under Trump, Ukrainian pilots are not receiving updates, and the programs could soon become obsolete. If so, title seems inflammatory. Not that I support the action, just saying it should be characterized accurately
- nbzso 2y ago[flagged]
- justahuman74 2y agoThis is going to make Australia think twice about those Virginia subs
- nabla9 2y agoEven if Trumpism is gone by 2028, nothing goes back to normal. We'll see the raise of ITAR-free weapons systems from Europe and Asian "former" US allies and cooperation around the US. What Trump and MAGA people don't realize is that 11 carrier groups sailing around the seas alone are not that big a threat. Defence Cooperation Agreement (DCA) and Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) provide unsinkable airfields, supply depots for the US all over the world. They are massive power multiplier for the US military.
- dboreham 2y agoThere goes the US defense industry and thank you very much from Saab.
- dangapeass 2y ago[dead]
- Simon_O_Rourke 2y agoIf I was a defense minister in Western Europe right now I'd go looking at whatever the Dassault, Saab or other European based defense tech can provide. I'd also immediately halt any pilot training in the US. I can see shares in Raytheon, Lockheed, etc. taking losses in the next couple of quarters, I mean here we have a president that won't even spend money on its own defense tech for export, and is now actively shutting down that export market.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoIt's hard to feel sorry for Raytheon Lockheed and the like, but it's looking like they should have thrown a few tens of millions at Trump's inauguration. It's pay to play now.
- alienthrowaway 2y agoWhich is why EU defense company share prices have been on a tear. The only US defense contractor that had a good week/month is SpaceX.
- pseudony 2y agoBeyond being morally reprehensible (and it really is), this is a humongous own-goal. I don't think US arms manufacturers should expect many future orders from the EU.
- ashoeafoot 2y agoWhat a move to break the spine of us forces and industrial complex at the same time .
- PoignardAzur 2y agoThis is yet another "People said the US would never do that, it would undermine their credibility too much, we shouldn't spread FUD -> oops, they did it anyway" moment. I'm hoping that people eventually understand that "losing credibility" isn't a deterrent when the offending party is entrenched enough that they believe (correctly or not) that everyone will keep buying their stuff anyway.
- mixxit 2y agoit seems so sad that americans dont find it worth while to stand up to their president
- Element_ 2y agoAnd if the American defense sector wasn't bruised enough from the last month, Elon musk was on social media this weekend claiming he could collapse the Ukranian frontlines by disabling Starlink and insulting the Polish foreign minister for buying Starlink systems... https://bsky.app/profile/tatarigami.bsky.social/post/3ljxhgc2k322o https://bsky.app/profile/tatarigami.bsky.social/post/3ljxhgc... https://bsky.app/profile/tendar.bsky.social/post/3ljx3esi74k2h https://bsky.app/profile/tendar.bsky.social/post/3ljx3esi74k...
- justin66 2y agoMusk might not value Poland’s patronage but the rest of the American defense industry certainly does. Poland is a huge buyer of arms. I can’t imagine what the internal struggles look like right now, but it definitely hasn’t dawned on most of the Trump people that whatever budgetary gains they make by randomly firing people will be offset - to put it mildly - by the effect fucking up the arms export market will have on the federal budget.
- physhster 2y agoReally makes you wonder if that "president" could be teaming up with the other side...
- yctim 2y agoThis is a sign of a rapid decline of the US in the world stage, faster than I expected a year ago. A new world order is being established and the US wouldn't be a leader in that world.
- DrNosferatu 2y agoThe first steps are already underway, nevertheless the European Democracies should start a, new, NATO-like military Alliance on their own, but without Trump's America. (and without the notorious US-made military equipment kill-switch ability - like with the F16s here) And while we're at it, this time will be different: Instead of the membership criteria being anti-soviet communism, as in NATO, it should be effective Liberal Democracy - and - Freedom from Exceptionalist Exemptions, namely from the International Rule of Law. So, to be part, 1. Compulsory International Criminal Court membership and compliance - hence no exceptionalistic US, and no exceptionalistic Israel. 2. No "Illiberal Democracies": say, for example, composite of a minimum 0.67 score on the WJP Rule of Law Index and others: therefore no Orbanic Hungary, and no illiberal others like it. Poland, Slovakia, Italy: time to make some hard choices if you want in. 3. Democratic backsliding removes you rights in the Alliance, and, can proportionally lead to outright expulsion. Not one more new military equipment purchase from the US, (and dispreference for other non-qualifying nations procurement). Member nations should use their - substantial - industrial capacity to equip themselves with indigenous military materiel. Hey, it would be actually great for the economy! Initially European scope, but bridges to a broader global scope (or even a secondary sister-Alliance) with open-ended partnerships with Canada, Australia, New Zeland, Japan, South Korea, and yes: Taiwan. US and/or Israel want to join, if a more Democratic future selves? Simple: fully join the ICC, and meet the Alliance's full criteria as every other member. Same applies for prospective new members. Sweden shows how principled positions can be maintained while building serious defense capabilities. Now multiply that model by Europe's combined industrial and technological base. We just need the political will to execute - instead of just rolling over and wagging our tail to bullies.
- Animats 2y agoSweden will reportedly be supplying Ukraine with Saab-built Gripen fighters.[1][2] Maybe. Apparently Sweden has been holding off on transfer of 14 Gripens while Ukraine was learning to use and service F-16s. The Gripen has advantages for Ukraine. It's a more rugged aircraft, with lower maintenance demands and lower operating cost. It can operate from very basic airstrips and roads. Saab boasts about this.[3] Their pitch mentions that servicing an aircraft between missions requires just one trained tech assisted by five other workers. The USAF likes to operate from big, well-equipped, secure air bases, and US aircraft tend to be designed for that environment. The US has, in the past, tried to discourage other countries from buying the Gripen, to protect US manufacturers. That sales advantage just disappeared. [1] https://min.news/en/military/a409faa4bc530b328f75ed6ccff23b7e.html https://min.news/en/military/a409faa4bc530b328f75ed6ccff23b7... [2] https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/03/04/saab-ceo-pushes-for-sooner-rather-than-later-swedish-gripen-jets-for-ukraine/ https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/03/04/saab-ceo-pushes-for-s... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyD0liioY8E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyD0liioY8E
- guerrilla 2y agoFascinating. What's with the US approach then? In general, it seems like lean forces tend to win. Afghanistan (twice) and Vietnam, for example. The Houthis as another example.
- whymeogod 2y agoI thought the US lost in Afghanistan and Vietnam. Am I misunderstanding something in your post?
- arkensaw 2y agoYes I think you are misunderstanding. The leaner forces in all of the cases above are not the US, but the opposition.
- wqaatwt 2y agoPolitically, not militarily. Same in Afghanistan. US could and did easily win the conventional parts of both conflicts. They lost because they didn’t know what to do after that or didn’t want to escalate it into a full scale war (Vietnam).
- quelup 2y agoThe comments in this thread freak me out. Either the world's media has brainwashed the population into believing America is failing and the 'right' is evil/dumb, or I'm totally delussioned (as an American) for seeing mostly good in what the current administration is doing. Both are terrifying.
- throwaway48476 2y agoWhat exactly is the good here?
- whymeogod 2y agowith kindness and respect. Ideally, "hacker news" is for people who have a hacker/engineer mindset. Look at the actual facts of the situation, not the flashy sales brochure. Odds are that your second hypothesis is the correct one. You may wish to start by comparing what you think the current administration is doing with what it is actually doing. You cannot count on Fox News to be accurate, they have never claimed to present "accurate" news. You may be interested in the results of this study, where Fox viewers were paid to watch CNN for a month. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/fox-news-study-comparing-fox-cnn-highlights-cable-tvs-harm-rcna23620 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/fox-news-study-compari...
- ajuc 2y ago"The right" isn't one thing. MAGA is a particular brand of "the right" that is pretty clearly evil/dumb. Ultimately USA is just 350 million people. Without its allies it's just another country. You can't bully half the world into "better deals" forever. Some countries might agree short-term out of desperation, but long term they'll throw you under the bus. Consider how you would behave if your business partner changed the price +25% -25% every few days, threatened to cut you off if you don't do what he wants and insulted you randomly. You'd search for a reliable competition.
- rwyinuse 2y agoI think it's time for foreign buyers of F-35 to evaluate that choice too.
- throwaway46713 2y agoMeanwhile, Trump forgets what Aukus is, and one of his peoples is making concerned noises about whether it's a good idea ([1]). If the point is to piss off every single one of the US' allies in an any% speedrun, the current administration seems to be doing a pretty bang-up job of this. It's terrifying, though. The world's (current) superpower might have a big military and all, but actively signalling that you don't really need friends can only lead to a decrease in overall geopolitical stability, right? [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/09/trump-pick-for-pentagon-says-selling-submarines-to-australia-would-be-crazy-if-taiwan-tensions-flare https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/09/trump-pick-for...
- tclover 2y ago[flagged]
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y agoAs russians say, pendosy tupyyye.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- DrNosferatu 2y agoI would be hard pressed to find decisions more helpful to Putin (and destructive to Ukraine) than what Trump has made so far. In fact, it seems quite many others are asking the same questions - a US Senate Committee has just directly asked, “is Trump a Russian asset”? - via Forbes: https://youtu.be/ibfVfAETlmA?t=16s https://youtu.be/ibfVfAETlmA?t=16s
- upghost 2y agoI've been unable to find a primary source confirming this information or providing technical details on the significance or consequences of the decision. Every article I've seen parrots the same language and they all point back to this same article[1] as the source of the information, but the article itself provides no proof whatsoever or explanation. This smells like propaganda. And it seems to be quite effective here. Before going for each other's throats on this maybe it would be better if we verified the facts. [1]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2025/03/07/france-to-the-rescue-french-made-mirage-2000-jets-could-become-ukraines-most-important-aerial-radar-jammers/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2025/03/07/france-to-t...
- red-iron-pine 2y agoRussia aggressively chases the agi-prop. Ironically, they outsourced a lot of the online presence efforts to Ukraine and Eastern Europe pre-2014; this is why Ukraine has a strong online propaganda presence, and is bolstered by NATO efforts. Both sides have a lot to say about F-16s and it's both sides' interest to flog various angles to death. I suspect you won't see real appraisals of the impact for a while yet, and maybe only after the war ends.
- ashoeafoot 2y agoBoeing is as good as bankrupt now?
- kimlopez 2y ago[flagged]