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DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731
- tosh 3mo agoresults comparable to gpt 5.6 luna but cheaper promising!
- minimaxir 3mo agoSince the x-axis is log-scaled, DeepSeek is much cheaper than visually implied (mousing over the raw values, it's 1/4th the cost of Luna).
- literallyroy 3mo agoIs this pricing from Deepseek with training on usage?
- minimaxir 3mo agoPer the announcement tweet, BaseTen was the inference provider which has 20% cache cost that is typical: https://www.baseten.co/library/deepseek-v4-flash-0731/ https://www.baseten.co/library/deepseek-v4-flash-0731/
- literallyroy 3mo agoAh thanks. That looks like 10x cost on cache reads vs Deepseek as the provider: https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731#providers https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731#provid...
- LUmBULtERA 3mo agoIs it still cheaper than Luna if using an OpenAI subscription? My gut is no, but I have not done the math.
- minimaxir 3mo agoEverything is cheaper if using a subscription, but some applications require API usage.
- swiftcoder 3mo agoYou'd have to compare against something like the OpenCode Go subscription, and I'm fairly sure deepseek napkins out cheaper in that scenario
- LUmBULtERA 3mo agoI'm still not sure, there's a promo going on now, but generally Go gives $60 of API credit and right now it might be $120 with deepseek. But $20/month OpenAI subscription I believe gives you many hundreds of API-equivalent usage? I've heard $100/month giving many thousands API-equivalent per month.
- K0IN 3mo agoSome china proxies charge as little as 1 cent / Mio tokens for luna, which I use. As far as I know they bundle multiple codex subscriptions to get subsidized token pricings, so in codex it should be.
- jrflo 3mo agoMight not actually be that much cheaper, we don't know what margin OpenAI is charging on Luna API. Open models likely have much less margin.
- minimaxir 3mo agoIt's always fun when Max reasoning is cheaper than High reasoning.
- Terretta 3mo agoRework is expensive. Tell your PjM who should tell your PgM who should tell your PdM, all the PMs... Maybe if "the business" sees it is true of LLMs, they might believe it's true of giving better context to engineers up front then giving them time to think and prototype (thinking tokens are an answer prototype).
- 542458 3mo agoKimi K3 was an interesting model only a month ago, and now we're looking at the same performance for 1/20th of the price. Wild how fast this is advancing.
- whinvik 3mo agoYeah either the benchmark isn't very useful anymore or V4 Flash is a really, really good model.
- ignoramous 3mo agoIn my use, DeepSeek v4 Flash (which replaced the quite excellent MiniMax M3) lags behind GLM 5.2 & Muse Spark 1.2 (let alone Kimi K3). Also, K3 is a much bigger multi-modal model, while Flash is text-only and likely optimised for coding tasks.
- nwienert 3mo agoYep, and the v4 flash final is about 2.5x slower than preview making it no longer a fast model, in fact slower than Luna and bigger models in many cases. Spark is actually the interesting one imo. It's significantly better, also significantly faster. If you are ok with letting Meta soak up your data (which DS does too) it's also the same price.
- fallingbananna 3mo agoGPT 5.6 Luna is an extremely cheap and still very capable model. A chinese model being in the same ballpark of capability at half the price sounds believable to me.
- nwienert 3mo agoIt's significantly worse than Luna and quite a bit slower in some fairly involved tests I run.
- 3mo ago
- muricula 3mo agoPrice is confounded by VC subsidies, economies of scale, and inference optimizations. I think a more interesting chart would be ARC AGI vs forwards pass flops or ARC AGI vs training tokens. Of course we don't have those numbers for the closed source models or even some of the open weight ones.
- minimaxir 3mo agoDeepSeek V4 Flash 0731 is an open-weights model which means price is determined by competition/invisible hand of the marketplace: https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731 https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731 With the exception of cache costs, all providers have similar input/output costs.
- kennywinker 3mo agoNot counting the cost of making the model, which is subsidized by… someone? The chinese gov i think?
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- _aavaa_ 3mo agoSubsidized by inference profits and volume.
- kennywinker 3mo agoIs deepseek actually turning enough of a profit off inference to fully pay for training the next model? And do those profits depend on releasing model weights somehow?
- segfault99 3mo agoDS comes out (one of, or) the most successful quant fund in China. They don't strictly need any kind of subsidies. FWIW they have a funding round planned (kerfuffle about leaks from CEO presentation few weeks back) -- presumably because infrastructure needs have ballooned. Naturally there will be some PRC government interest in one of their flagship AI companies. From what is visible seems to be more along the lines of ensuring that DS gets its fair share of resources -- e.g. Xi Jinping meeting founder and positive comments about success of DS means that (hypothetically) Alibaba can't screw DS too much on infra charges to kill off a 'competitor'. Also would imagine that DS's top guys have been clearly identified and will have been 'discouraged' from going to work for one of the SV polycules. But even here as much carrot as stick -- none of the DS top guys will ever need to work again except for love of the job.
- luyu_wu 3mo agoIt is wild that this a log scale of cost to me!
- LaurensBER 3mo agoI've been using it extensively since the release and the best summary I can give is that it's good enough to use it for (almost) everything and cheap enough that the cost are irrelevant. I'm running it in Oh My Pi with a second instance running as "advisor" and even with 5-6 active sessions (effectively 12 streams) I'm struggling to spend more than 5 bucks per day. OpenCode Go even has double limits temporarily so for 10 USD you effectively get 140 USD of tokens to spend. It would impress me if someone could burn that amount with "normal" usage. Even when running multiple sessions. I have a Claude Max subscription but I've barely touched it, it just feels like a step back to have to think about limits and usage even though the models are stronger. The beauty of intelligence at this cost (even if it's not SOTA) is that it opens a whole bunch of new use cases. Test failure in CI? Have the bot automatically propose a fix, its cheap enough that you can discard it w/h issues. Test coverage too low? Auto generate tests on CI for every pull-requests! Monitoring server logs, continuous security audits and investigating every received exception now becomes possible. I'm thinking about having it automatically filter and re-rank my social media feeds so I can steer the algorithm instead of the other way around. Perhaps other people (with enormous budgets) were already doing all of the above but for us this is a really exciting release!
- Aeolun 3mo agoBut DeepSeek now has a warning they’re going to sharply increase their API pricing sometime in the future.
- metadat 3mo agoSource?
- striking 3mo agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/DeepSeek/comments/1vgpysh/deepseek_says_api_pricing_is_going_up/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DeepSeek/comments/1vgpysh/deepseek_...
- dolebirchwood 3mo ago
- CharlesW 3mo agoLast weeks's discussion (591 points): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49120299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49120299
- antirez 3mo agoPrice is not a good meter. Active parameters per token are. Joule would be even better.
- minimaxir 3mo agoPrice accounts for computational/architectural efficiency improvements whereas active parameters does not.
- orbital-decay 3mo agoIt's an excellent metric, the amount of applications not viable now due to cost/latency/throughput is vastly bigger than the amount of current use cases. Even current ones do benefit, e.g. it's a great executor subagent. Energy and intelligence are good too, sure.
- polytely 3mo agofor someone with a limited budget it is actually very important because it makes me less scared to experiment.
- fallingbananna 3mo agoWhat if we used 100% of the brain all the time? As an end consumer, I don't care about the number of active parameters. I really do care only about the tracked metric (how well does it do the job, and how much does it cost... ideally also with time included, but that wouldn't fit on a 2D chart)
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- surprisetalk 3mo agoThis reminds me of those pareto-style speedrun record charts when a new glitch is discovered. [0] https://taylor.town/silver-landmines https://taylor.town/silver-landmines When I see dramatic leaps like this, it tells me that the important hacks haven't yet been discovered.
- clayhacks 3mo agoWhy wasn’t this run against ARC-AGI-3? Or did it fail to solve anything?
- chorizo 3mo agoThey tweeted that ARC-AGI-3 results take longer to run, so we’ll need wait a bit longer.
- esafak 3mo agoIt's serviceable but, like many Chinese models, it uses a lot of tokens to get work done.
- gruez 3mo ago>it uses a lot of tokens to get work done. That's irrelevant when you use $/task as the metric, which the OP does use.
- esafak 3mo agoIt also affects the time.
- aitchnyu 3mo agoIt felt like a rocket compared to GLM 5.2 though. Are Chinese models generally token-heavy?
- esafak 3mo agohttps://artificialanalysis.ai/?cost=intelligence-vs-cost-per-task&models=gpt-5-6-terra-medium%2Cgpt-5-6-luna-medium%2Cgpt-5-6-terra-high%2Cgpt-5-6-luna-xhigh%2Cgpt-5-6-terra-xhigh%2Cgpt-5-6-luna-high%2Cglm-5-2%2Cqwen3-8-max%2Cdeepseek-v4-flash&intelligence-category=reasoning-vs-non-reasoning&intelligence-efficiency=output-tokens-per-task#intelligence-efficiency-tabs https://artificialanalysis.ai/?cost=intelligence-vs-cost-per...
- cyanydeez 3mo agoIf I had the GPU size, hook it up to llama.cpp and setup the --reasoning-budget and reasoning-message; Most of that additional reasoning is a lot of garbage and you can redirect it to useful output. That's how I handle the Qwen27B and 35B
- nomel 3mo ago> Most of that additional reasoning is a lot of garbage and you can redirect it to useful output. What do you mean by "redirect it to useful output"? Could you give an example? This sounds interesting.
- Havoc 3mo agoThey did recently announce they're increasing prices though (got a mail yesterday I think), so not sure this analysis showing it as price outlier will last
- minimaxir 3mo agoThat is only when using the DeepSeek API directly. OpenRouter has 24 different providers serving it at existing prices.
- dcchambers 3mo agoThis latest DeepSeek is almost at the "too cheap to meter" level. That's going to be a larger unlock than models like Fable/Mythos that are way too expensive to justify, IMO. What secret sauce do they have?
- throwaway_95283 3mo agolimited resources, no modern GPUs, no $10 billion dev budgets. pair it with codewhale, 50 agents, 200 MB of ram.
- pama 3mo agoNo secrets—all published. Very efficient attention. Excellent kernels. Great caching subsystem. Small and well trained model.
- est 3mo ago> What secret sauce do they have? Quant company usually squeezing every penny.
- gentlewater 3mo agoI’ve been refreshing hacker news constantly for a week now waiting for v4 pro, after they stated it would follow «soon». I have learnt «soon» is a matter of definition.
- indigodaddy 3mo agoI guess you mean a "new" v4 pro?
- ignoramous 3mo ago> been refreshing hacker news constantly for a week now waiting for v4 pro https://reddit.com/r/DeepSeek https://reddit.com/r/DeepSeek is where the fellow F5ers are at.
- mosura 3mo agoI strongly recommend trying this for programming tasks. It is strong (not Fable strong though) with a much better “persona” than Opus, and very different blindspots. If you flip between Claude and this you will find both catch the mistakes of the other before they get out of control. On balance I actually prefer DeepSeek for programming now, because of the way it talks.
- xyzsparetimexyz 3mo agoThat page needs a Pareto frontier display. But wow, it absolutely demolishes.
- sourcecodeplz 3mo agowow. i remember when GPT-5.2 (medium) was everyone's favorite. ARC-AGI II: - GPT-5.2 (medium) %26.7 ($0.759) - DSV4-Flash (max) %61.4 ($0.04)
- WhitneyLand 3mo agoThe DeepSeek team is so strong, very impressive. Imagine if they had GPU resources of western labs.
- mosura 3mo agoNecessity is the mother of invention. SV companies get way too comfortable when they have enough in the bank to stay running more than three months.
- SwellJoe 3mo agoDeepSeek is my cheap and cheerful Chinese model of choice for API use. Has been for a while, but now it's Flash instead of Pro. Even cheaper, and now better then Pro. I feel like most of the major Chinese models are benchmaxxed, they have weird quirks every time I use them (Qwen 3.8 Max doesn't check its work and leaves stuff broken, doesn't write tests unless prompted, etc., Kimi ends up being quite expensive and rarely better than GPT Sol or Opus 5), while DeepSeek models seem to be generally as good as the benchmarks indicate: Not the best, but stronger across the board than any model within an order of magnitude of its price.
- eli 3mo agoQwen 3.8 Max is very strong at troubleshooting and code review.
- SwellJoe 3mo agoI'll grant it's very thorough when assigned a troubleshooting task. I'm not as confident of its code review though it is very good at security vulnerability auditing, and isn't hobbled for that work like Fable, and even Opus refuses some work in that area now.
- croes 3mo agoPrice raise incoming https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49198661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49198661
- inknight 3mo agothey are probably out of compute due to demand increases. since its an open model, other provides could offer similar prices as well https://x.com/thdxr/status/2085377844515922210 https://x.com/thdxr/status/2085377844515922210
- iagooar 3mo agoI love DeepSeek V4 Flash since the pre-0731, now even more. It is the first model that is truly too cheap to meter. But I find it having a pretty significant problem with tool calling - no idea why, but tool calling with it is SLOW. As long as the model is reasoning, all good. But give it a bunch of tools and it becomes extremely slow. Am I the only one experiencing this?
- arjie 3mo agoIt's not frontier, but it's far past what we had at the beginning of the year. It's very usable. I get great instruction compliance, tool calling, and with a trivial workflows flow it has very good long-running performance as well.
- modeless 3mo agoDeepSeek has announced an upcoming "significant increase" in price, so this line may have to move to the right soon. https://api-docs.deepseek.com/quick_start/pricing/ https://api-docs.deepseek.com/quick_start/pricing/
- vb-8448 3mo agoWhy? It's open weight, there are plenty providers on open router that are serving the latest v4 flash at 0.14/0.28 $.
- nicce 3mo agoThe most expensive defines the price. Others need to be just slightly cheaper.
- modeless 3mo agoThis would be more convincing if those providers had converged on a number that was not the exact pricing of DeepSeek themselves. Clearly DeepSeek is setting the price here and without them holding it down I expect increases.
- vb-8448 3mo agoNon necessarily, they can easily increase market share by staying where they are.
- dghlsakjg 3mo agoBefore this release, there were providers undercutting deepseek on the preview version. I suspect that once the hype dies down, or the field gets more competitive we will see the same on 0731.
- rikima_ 3mo ago$0.14 is CN¥1. that's where the 0.14 comes from
- 3mo ago
- leizhou 3mo agoso cool. does it mean it can understand the verificated code
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- CrosswordPuzzle 3mo agoI'm really excited for where the open weight models go from here. I've had fun with just CPU inference on old servers that only have AVX1; here's hoping for commoditized TPU-like hardware!
- simonw 3mo agoThat's a pretty great score for a model you can run on as (expensive) laptop.
- nikp123 3mo agoI just used it for some Kubernetes + FluxCD tasks and oh my is it good.
- harisamin 3mo agoI'm curious... is anyone using DeepSeek V4 Flash from HugginFace? Is the cost around the same as directly form DeepSeek or from Openrouter?
- walrus01 3mo agoOke of the great advantages of v4 flash 0731 is that even in the largest size unsloth quantized gguf, Q8 K XL, it will fit well within the resources of a 256GB DRAM server. If you have no gpu at all and are okay with setting up a workflow that handles slow token per second rate, give it a task and check back in 4-6 hours, it works great. And remember to give it more lengthy tasks to run overnight. Whatever workflow you set up, the idea is to keep it busy 24x7 doing different things in parallel.
- johnmlussier 3mo agoBeen running it using Prime Agent and absolutely love it.
- mycall 3mo agoI'm curious how much worse the 0731 quantizations do.
- hnc3yfnu6f 3mo ago[flagged]
- NoboruWataya 3mo agoMy Claude account was banned the other day. The only possible cause I can think of is that I tried to authenticate from the AI assistant in a JetBrains IDE and, not thinking, entered the details for my regular subscription rather than an API account. As soon as it became apparent that I needed an API account rather than a subscription, I just closed out of the tab. Nevertheless, about 20 minutes later I got an email saying my account was banned for a violation of the usage policy, and my appeal was rejected. My initial thought was to sign up for ChatGPT, but I had $20 in OpenRouter so I've been trying out DeepSeek V4 Pro with Pi for the last few days and I gotta say, it's good enough for my use case. And even with paying for API usage rather than Claude's subsidised subscription, and with OpenRouter taking their cut, I will probably end up paying significantly less overall. And I really like the flexibility of being able to use whatever minimalist open source harness I want (and being able to switch providers easily, too). (My demands probably aren't as high as many others' - I mostly use it for help with some hobbyist coding projects, and I tend to ask it questions about how to approach problems rather than just telling it to go off and code stuff for me.)
- andai 3mo agoI've been asking about psyops and bioweapons and I'm still going strong. I did get a Sonnet session shut down the other day though which feels like some kind of achievement.
- nodja 3mo agoI'm the same way, I have a very low/sporadic usage of any subscription I've tried. I now just use openrouter with DS4 pro/flash. It also gets rid of usage anxiety where I would try to justify the $20/month by forcing myself to use the tokens for projects as the weekly limit deadline neared.
- ignoramous 3mo ago> My initial thought was to sign up for ChatGPT, but I had $20 in OpenRouter so I've been trying out DeepSeek V4 Pro with Pi for the last few days and I gotta say, it's good enough for my use case If you prefer subscriptions, OpenCode Go ($10/mo), Cline Pass ($10/mo), Atlas Code ($20/mo), and CommandCode ($1/mo) serve some of the best open weights with generous limits. OpenCode Go currently offers $120 for $10 on DeepSeek Flash v4 (if you're okay with data retention).
- KolmogorovComp 3mo agoLooking at the caching price of deepseek compared to its competitors, does it have a secret sauce or is it just subsidizing?
- ignoramous 3mo agoThat's DeepSeek's way of selling "token plans", yes. But without the downsides like daily or weekly limits and guaranteed upfront/fixed spend.
- evanjrowley 3mo agoThe benchmark performance tells me DeepSeek v4 Flash could be very cost-effective at playing SNES/Gameboy games.
- andai 3mo agoIt won't be long before I can just stay home, and have my robot ride my bike for me.
- qup 3mo agoI'm going to send mine to visit my mom. It's so hot in August.
- andai 3mo agoYou reminded me of a short story published over a century ago. https://americanliterature.com/author/em-forster/novella/the-machine-stops/i-the-air-ship https://americanliterature.com/author/em-forster/novella/the...
- andai 3mo agoThe recently announced they're raising their prices 10x right? Which would put them... exactly where everyone else is on this graph. Edit: I seem to have misunderstood the news. I thought the magical cache read pricing was going away (0.002) and they were going to be on par with everyone else (0.02). But I have no idea. Edit 2: Apparently, neither do they! >We plan to raise the overall pricing for DeepSeek API services in the near future, with a significant increase expected. Please plan your usage accordingly. The specific pricing plan will be subject to official notice.
- guilamu 3mo agoWhere does this "10x" comes from?
- freakynit 3mo agoEvery "other" provider other than deepseek on openrouter (or elsewhere) is charging at the very least 10x for cached input tokens... and in agentic coding, that is where the 90%+ of the costs from from... that means with these providers, your costs will jump by 10x or more. https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731#providers https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731#provid... Sort by cache read.
- surgical_fire 3mo ago> The recently announced they're raising their prices 10x right? No. They sent an email to customers saying that they will raise prices "significantly". How much that will be is speculation. My guess is that they will just remove the 75% discount they gave when they released V4 preview. It will still be relatively cheap even at 4x the current price.
- gizmodo59 3mo agoIt will be comparable to Luna then.
- ak_t 3mo agoNote this is the 07/31 release of DSv4 flash and not the "preview" that they put out a couple months or so ago. I've been running this model locally for a week, and the preview version before that. This updated one feels like a whole tier up. It's very capable for debugging and analyzing documents/data I upload. The killer feature, IMO, is the speed. On 2x RTX Pro 6000 Blackwell, its ~8k tok/s prefill and ~250 tok/s on a single stream. I saw 1000 tok/s with ~64 concurrent streams on vLLM. That's fast enough that you can interactively chat with it without switching tabs while you wait, and its a ~300B (13B active, hence the speed) model so the responses are also very good. It's actually more convenient now for me to direct 95%+ of my day to day usage to my local model, and only use Claude Fable for really big coding tasks. Until this model was released, I was contemplating spending even more money on hardware to run GLM5.2 (~750B) at reasonable speeds, but I no longer feel that need. This is smart enough, and I think it only gets much better for local models from here.
- ComputerGuru 3mo agoWhat quantization level is that? Because official endpoints are slow.
- bel8 3mo agoFrom opencode go $10/mo plan I get between 60 t/s and 100 token/s even with large contexts of 150k+ tokens. I wouldn't call 80 t/s slow.
- ponyous 3mo agoYou are right, relatively to other llm providers this is not slow. But if you think what is possible when you have 1000t/s a sec you might find it slow.
- hatefulmoron 3mo agoThat's across 64 concurrent streams; you could make more concurrent requests to DeepSeek API no?
- nylonstrung 3mo agoCompared to the last Deepseek V4 Flash version I've had tons of issues with it getting in infinite loops and talking to itself without executing tool calls, wasting tons of tokens This is on Pi agent, nothing fancy at all about my prompts or use case. Anyone else experiencing this? I've also had it randomly go from talking about Rust to talking about the electric chair, controversies about D&D rules (both irrelevant and something I've never discussed) and it's completely blind to it in future prompts even when its pointed out and referenced directly All this said its still worth it but the agentic performance has degraded in my experience at least
- bel8 3mo agoI've been using for work, from opencode $10/mo subscription plan, on high effort (which is better than max imo), and haven't had any issue. When it was first available in opencode, it was kinda slow for me, I guess because everyone wanted to try the new shiny. But now it's back to being screamingly fast and Opus 4.8 level of smart, for penies.
- the_duke 3mo agoYeah, I saw the same thing - quite annoying. It can be mitigated through the prompt.
- natrys 3mo agoI think this one requires a bit of strong prompting. I am also normally a Pi user, but my experience in OpenCode with this model has been drastically better than in Pi, where it overthinks a lot and gets distracted by random things. It might be even better in Codex or Oh My Pi according to this bench I saw earlier: https://nitter.net/composio/status/2085330847951970801 https://nitter.net/composio/status/2085330847951970801
- johnnyApplePRNG 3mo agoWhat quantization are you using? Which infra provider? Baseten.co's version got into a loop rather rapidly... I've since added loop detection and adjusted some other settings on the pi coding agent and have yet to notice it again. I also switched to DeepInfra ... who serves an fp4 version admittedly, but I've had no issues with it as of yet and it's the top provider on openrouter.ai volume wise.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- nmitchko 3mo agoPerhaps it might be interesting: a latent thinking version is here https://huggingface.co/nmitchko/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-Latent-Reasoning https://huggingface.co/nmitchko/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-Laten... Does no thinking emissions for context saving.
- kamranjon 3mo agoThis is pretty interesting, I've never heard of this approach before - do you know if there is a research paper that covers how this was achieved?
- nmitchko 3mo agoIt’s an adaptation of CoLaR, but my implementation is a little different: - Dedicated stop head to fire when latent thinking hits threshold - MTP support with training taking draft support as first class - different architectural layer 35 -> layer 42 writeback. So latents skip roughly 6.2 tokens of reasoning per token, then never make it to decoded output
- krackers 3mo agoThis deserves its own hn post!
- nmitchko 3mo agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49230550 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49230550
- kromem 3mo agoFlash is a delightful model and the start of intelligence at effectively insignificant cost. From here on, it's going to become all about harnesses that best situate and organize swarm intelligence at scale.
- casey2 3mo agoFinally something that is breaking away from the pack. Interesting that max costs less than high. I still think, currently, TPS is more important than near frontier intelligence. Likely for reasons that LeCun outlined, maybe out of a billion prompts you will get value from that intelligence. When we have very fast models abstraction will work as that filter.
- steadyw0 3mo agoShould try it sometime
- apitman 3mo agoThese are very interesting results, and honestly hard to believe, even as a big 0731 fan. If I'm reading the chart correctly, a couple observations: * deepseek-v4-flash-0731 max is better than kimi-k3 max * glm-5.2 is dumber than a box of rocks (this must be on low reasoning or something, right?) This is way more extreme than other results I'm seeing, like those from Artificial Analysis.
- zmmmmm 3mo agoit's great but we need a multi-modal model of this quality and price to truly declare victory. But it makes me quite curious, how a text-only model can do so well on ARC-AGI-2 being a set of visual puzzles? It would have to solve it entirely using text-only spatial reasoning about the grid (or maybe writing code?). I am curious if this is normal or do other models use their vision capabilities to solve the puzzles?
- ghosty141 3mo agoxiaomi mimo is very cheap and not bad.
- seanmcdirmid 3mo agoNote they double the price if you use during peak time. However, they define peak time with respect to China, not Europe or the USA...so if you are out of Asia, I guess Australians might be impacted, and its still cheap anyways.
- w2seraph 3mo agoThere's no reason that LLMs should cost beyond grave digging sums when this one topples the charts it'll be over.
- dools 3mo agoI have been using deepseek v4 pro almost exclusively. I was using Kimi a lot but it just nose dived. The decline started with the release of 2.7 and accelerated with the release of 3. When I need vision capabilities I use GPT 5.3 codex and if deepseek can’t figure something out after a few goes I switch to GTP 5.5 or 5.6 (I’ve been giving Terra first bite recently and it does pretty well, and have used Sol a couple of times). Using this regimen means I spend under $100 per month on inference and I work all day everyday with multiple agents running simultaneously all on API token spend not subscriptions.
- tarruda 3mo agoOne of the best things about this version is that it is trained in the codex harness. It feels just as good as OpenAI models in using codex tools, but extremely cheap and with 1M context
- djc404 3mo agoDo you have any sense how using it with codex compares to OpenCode? It’s always a bit tricky picking the right harness (when you have options). Sometimes the differences are subtle but meaningful. But who has the time to run everything twice and compare all the time!
- tarruda 3mo agoI don't have experience with opencode, so I couldn't tell you. Codex is really good in my experience, especially due to its native sandboxing. Deepseek seems really well versed in its tools, including update_plan and knowing when to request sandbox escalation.
- gxs 3mo agoOne thing that popped into my head is that this shows how committed they are to building something that scales across the world China has zero energy concerns in terms of energy production - not literally zero, but they’d be able to prioritize other dimensions and not necessarily worry about efficiency Here they are though releasing models that sip resources
- system2 3mo agoHow can OpenAI or Anthropic fight against these prices?! $0.14 input, $0.28 output. For 1M tokens...
- Almondsetat 3mo agoIt's crazy to think V4 Pro still hasn't finished the post processing.
- m3kw9 3mo agoThe token price seem to be jigged, how do you know if it's subsidized or temporary. Anyone can just lower the token price to get to the left.
- jacquesm 3mo agoAlmost every service provider in the AI field is subsidizing their token cost to some degree, they're all shooting for marketshare and lock-in (and they're not really achieving the latter).
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- artursapek 3mo agoThese prices are not real. They already said so.
- addozhang 3mo agowhat's the real you mean?
- LeBit 3mo agoI always find it confusing that a meaningful volume of the comments are saying "this reached parity with SOTA models. Best $/task." And a meaningful chunk of the comments are saying "this piece of garbage isn’t even at the level of gpt-oss 20B".
- ddxv 3mo agoI guess both are true and for everyone at some point. All models, even SOTA, fail. When they fail, it is quite frustrating. Additionally, some models are very cheap to run and use. When Deepseek fails the cost was minutes and pennies.
- freakynit 3mo agoI was in the first group up until last week.. now, the second one. For anything even moderately complex.. like, even low end of complexity, this model behaves maximum like gpt-5.6-luna-high .. nothing more. Yesterday itself I gave it a coding task in some existing moderately complex small project, and i was using xhigh thinking effort, it was unable to cover all edge cases... and i had already got it to review, and then fix, 3 more times, after the first initial one. Still it left 2 edge cases. Then, reverted full code, gave sol-high the same task, it took well over 20 minutes, and completed it in one go with zero edge cases remaining. I am not using it for anything serious anymore.
- wolttam 3mo agoYours is the only mention of GPT-OSS in the whole thread. I count about 2-3 comments saying the model is meh and many more saying it’s a big step up. I am among those with real life experience with the model that used the previous as well and will attest that the new model is a big improvement
- thebytefairy 3mo agoDefinitely interesting. My guess it has to do with the level of hand-holding the users are doing. Ie. Full on vibing vs pair programming.
- stuaxo 3mo agoSeeing everyone spend like 200USD a month seems kind of mad. I have £20/month Gemini and £20 a month claude for a bunch of personal projects. Yes I have to wait sometimes, it's probably a good thing.
- therealdrag0 3mo agoJust depends on commitment, time, and scope. Personally I also use the 20$ plans. But people spend 200$ for a gym membership. So shrug.
- Petersipoi 3mo agoI max out my $200/month Claude plan. You are obviously just not taking advantage of it to the same level as others. Which is fine. Don't pay for something you don't need. But I would definitely take a massive productivity hit if I had 1/20th the usage.
- Mkengin 3mo agoAre you also talking about personal projects? That wouldn't be enough for me for work either, but for personal use, my $20 Codex subscription is perfectly fine. Then again, as a new dad, I can maybe only work on personal projects for 1 hour in the evening if things go well, so for my current situation in life, it's enough.
- kilroy123 3mo agoSame here and my codex plan. I have to wait until next week to get back to work.
- system2 3mo agoPeople use Claude Code for professional reasons. Waiting is not a luxury when there is a deadline.
- scrollop 3mo agoGemini? Are you locked into google as that's an odd choice.
- ClipBGNET 3mo ago[flagged]
- g023 3mo agoIt says 'yes' where the others say 'no'. Good enough for me.
- jacquesm 3mo agoThis is the best model to come out since the beginning of open weights models for those working with classified data that you can not use hosted services for. I've been using it pretty much day and night since it landed and I'm nothing short of amazed. You'll need some pretty good hardware to run it though.
- zacksiri 3mo agoI'm not sure about all these benchmarks, I did some very simple tests (I have my own benchmarks https://upmaru.com/llm-tests https://upmaru.com/llm-tests) and these models fail, not sure if it's the inference provider or the model. They seem to be optimized for benchmarks more than real use cases. Do anything outside their distribution (even if it's not complex) they fail. I Compared Deepseek V4 Flash 0731 (low) to Gemini 3.5 Flash Lite (minimal) and GPT 5.6 Luna (no reasoning) and Deepseek V4 Flash 0731 gets it wrong alot, where as Gemini and 5.6 Luna just gets it done.
- theogravity 3mo agoYou're using it on low, that's why. There's a huge difference in performance from low to max effort.
- zacksiri 3mo agoI’m comparing same / similar settings between models. I can’t use high on one and low on others it’s not a fair test. Not sure why I was downvoted. But seems the downvoter is quick to downvote anything that doesn’t fit the narrative they’re looking for. I’m just reporting my findings.
- theogravity 3mo agoI did not downvote you. I think it was the way you wrote the comment which made it seem like it couldn't perform in general.
- lejalv 3mo agoComparing at similar thinking hasn't much value. You can compare the tiers that have the closest price, that would be more interesting.
- zacksiri 3mo agoYes, I think a proper comprehensive test would be a better judge of the outcome. I may do round 2 given my first batch of models is already outdated.
- h4fizwasabie 3mo agoive been enjoying this deepseek v4 flash 0731. i think its a great model, it helped me with finishing all of my abandoned projects.
- geniium 3mo agoIt's really amazing to see how the gaps between the self hostable models and the closed models has been shrinking in the last 24 months. And how this has been accelerating!! I felt this very hard when I had to travel in the middle of nowhere in south america, with no network, and wanted to keep an LLM model on my macbook pro with 48GB of RAM. That was back in April 2026, a few months ago. I downloaded Google Gemma 4 (google/gemma-4-26b-a4b) and - Oh boy - I was amazed by it's capacity! I was able to use it to code simple things, ask it about nature, learn new stuff while traveling and make stories for the kids. Was really amazing to observe and experiment this! Seems to me there will be some good chance to run these great LLM locally on our hardware! Amazing time to be alive
- antonyragleap 3mo agoThe interesting part for me is whether DeepSeek V4's reasoning gains hold up on long-running tasks rather than short benchmarks.
- Helldez 3mo ago[dead]
- JunkiesCoder 3mo agoDidn’t deepseek recently announce prices will go up significantly?
- floki165 3mo ago[flagged]
- saturn5k 3mo agoFor the last 3 months I've been using V4 Flash Free with Hermes through Opencode Zen both personally and at my company and I've been having a great experience so far. It's my go-to model for terminal work, managing my entire ubuntu server, Cloudpanel, managing static websites, doing SEO audits, network tests, DNS troubleshooting, e-mail deliverability troubleshooting... Furthermore, in my company we are using MCPs for Google Ads (it manages our ads), Analytics, Search Console, Zoho CRM, Microsoft Clarity... We use it to crawl specific websites and send daily summaries to our sales team in MS Teams channel. We use it to send daily summaries on marketing statistics and analytics... All with a FREE model. We are rarely hitting any limits so far and in case we need more tokens - we use NOUS or openrouter to pick between Flash or Pro for specific tasks that require more churning. AMA.
- djfjfndmwpekdm 3mo agoSounds super simple stuff compared to what I use Fable and Opus 5 for.
- kzrdude 2mo agoIs dflash still free there after the 0731 upgrade?
- zacurryyyy 3mo ago[dead]
- blueflowerbed 3mo agoPerhaps I am doing it wrong, but the deepseek llms fail so hard for any complex task and don't compare to the paid models. It keeps forgetting basic instructions after two responses
- hnussffjc9 3mo agoBeen burned, can confirm every word
- Numeros 3mo ago[flagged]
- momojo 3mo agoDid anyone else experience a change in verbosity? I've been playing around with an agent that holds your hand in a Jupiter notebook and it felt like it started writing essays versus nice, concise, helpful paragraphs like before. My gut was correct because I checked my Deepinfra usage and it was almost a 2x out-token usage for every in-token. Not a huge deal since it's still cents per session, but my bigger issue was the weird change in tone. It became a lot more pretentious and over-explanatory. Heavy prompt reworking helped but maybe that's just the cost of being better at coding and ARC-AGI?
- balageivibeai 3mo ago[flagged]
- Kuyawa 3mo agoI use DeepSeek on a daily basis and I didn't spend $10 in the whole month of July delivering eight fully functional apps. Btw if you need an app I may deliver it to you in ten minutes for just five cents if I'm in the mood. Just let me know.
- paulddraper 3mo agoI assume you got the email about them increasing prices "significantly" soon (but no hint on what significantly means).
- Kuyawa 3mo agoYep I got the email, but I am not worried. Building an app for 5 cents will cost me what 10 cents? A full dollar? Still a bargain. Still giving me two months and 29 days free for something that took me three months to do
- hna8hjbqzy 3mo ago[dead]
- vijucat 3mo agoCaching makes a huge difference to cost. On Fireworks AI, for example, if it hits the cache, you pay only 20%. And uncached is just $0.14/M tokens for DSV4-0731! I get entire re-architecture projects (with new tests and documentation) done for mere dollars. DSV4-0731 is a daily driver for me. But note that you have to use Cline (or other harness) if using vscode. I was shocked at how poor the recent versions of GitHub Copilot are at using the cache (with Fireworks AI, but I believe it's a more generic problem). https://x.com/vijucat/status/2085415745144672492?s=20 https://x.com/vijucat/status/2085415745144672492?s=20
- retinaros 3mo agomany are buying into routing as a way to save money but it destroys the cache savings. prob that is what copuilot is doing
- taf2 3mo agowe got this running on 4 RTX Pro 6000's and for single request we're getting around 250 tok/s we can support about 48 concurrent requests we're seeing around 2400 agg tok/s peaking around 24-31 concurrent users. Model performance feels like gpt 5.4 - mostly using it with pi agent. the only thing i'm missing with this model is vision and i see some folks have done some work like https://huggingface.co/webbrain-one/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-Vision-NVFP4 https://huggingface.co/webbrain-one/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-V... but have not yet tried it out.
- taf2 3mo agoGot this up and running at 250 tok/s about 2500 agg tok/s for 16 users and now this morning got https://huggingface.co/webbrain-one/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-Vision-BF16 https://huggingface.co/webbrain-one/DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-V... working - patched it to support multiple images... should post this soon to huggingface - having about gpt-5.6 terra high locally feels pretty good
- hdjrudni 3mo agoWell, I'm impressed. Someone else here said we could get the model via OpenCode Go for $10/mo and get about $120 worth of credit, so I decided to give it a whirl. My first month is actually $5. In the 3 hours I've been using it I've burned 3% of my 5-hr, 1% of my weekly and 0% of my monthly. It's fixed 3 or 4 issues in my C++ game, despite not having visual capabilities to see the screenshots I was trying to give it. One-shotted them too. Luna struggled with what I thought was an easy task (had to replace a few ASCII chars with the correct unicode char but kept choosing incorrectly). I'll keep using it.
- bishengke 3mo ago[flagged]