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EU Passes Law to Switch iPhone to USB-C by End of 2024

• blue_light_man 4y ago
  Perfect example of why Brexit makes sense. A bunch of politicians thinking they know what is best for consumers across dozens of countries better than the companies operating in the free market.
  • acallaghan 4y ago
    > A bunch of politicians *elected* politicians is the key. The member states voted them in, they have a democratic mandate. No one running these companies have anywhere near the same level of responsibility to people as someone that's actually elected. This is just another regulation on that free market, decided for by democratically elected people and not by the companies choosing not to be regulated.
• MisterTea 4y ago
  I don't like the current basket case of a standard we call USB. I'd like to see it replaced one day because we can do better. Making it law is absurd.
• izacus 4y ago
  Bizarrely enough, this is actually a big boost to consider an iPhone for me. Having everything on USB-C is such a convenience that it was my no. 1 reason to stay in the other ecosystem.
  • allendoerfer 4y ago
    It's the number one reason, why I am not upgrading and tell everyone who asks me, to not do it either. This law is so good, even its anticipation has environmental benefits.
    • Krkrmfnfmmd 4y ago
      The law will stifle further innovation for cables. Imagine still having USB A because the EU said so.
      • Avamander 4y ago
        It will not, the previous one didn't either.
      • pimterry 4y ago
        > Imagine still having USB A because the EU said so. The EU literally did mandate USB-A/plug + micro-USB (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply). The successful development & widespread use of USB-C afterwards, culminating in this updated directive standardizing it, is a very neat demonstration that it didn't stifle innovation at all.
        • ralfd 4y ago
          Then why does Apple use lightning if the EU mandated otherwise? Surely there must be a difference between the old and the new law. And this difference can then still be stifling innovation.
          • kalleboo 4y ago
            There wasn't a mandate - the EU asked the manufactures to adopt a standard "or else we'll look at regulating it", and that worked great, everyone adopted microUSB and then switched to USB-C just fine. Except Apple. And since Apple continually refused to get in line, we're now getting that "or else". Apple is who got the whole industry in this situation.
            • enriquec 4y ago
              hilarious that the people in favor can't even agree on the previous state of things... they just get high on "doing something" and forcing compliance - when in reality they've done nothing and have no concept of what creates innovation and progress
• jmull 4y ago
  • hackeraccount 4y ago
    Who can imagine that something better then USB-C will ever come along though? Apparently not the people passing this law.
    • kypro 4y ago
      This is what I find most short-sighted about this. I swear the typical connectors I use for electronics have changed several times over the last decade alone (mini USB, micro USB, USB-C). The idea that innovation in this space is done seems optimistic to me. So now every few years do we just need to hope the EU will update it's laws in a timely manner so we can get better connectors for our electronics?
      • danielbln 4y ago
        You do know that the reason we were using micro-USB for everything instead of a hodgepodge of proprietary connectors ie because of the same EU body bringing the hammer down that is now also mandating USB-C?
        • jen20 4y ago
          How many times in one thread does this falsehood need to be debunked exactly?
          • timbit42 4y ago
            Until people stop posting the falsehood.
            • danielbln 4y ago
              How is it a falsehood? The EU was threatening to enforce micro-usb unless the companies get their shit together. They did, so the EU didn't have to, then.
• josteink 4y ago
  If the Apple product-designers committee couldn't come up with such a decision, I'm very pleased that the EU instead felt like they could do this. Signed, happy iPhone owner.
• fbn79 4y ago
  I'm European, I understand the good intentions at the root of such enforcement. But I believe such mandatory enforcements are liberticide, and against consumers in the long run.
  • josteink 4y ago
    Tell me. How many different kind of chargers and connectors did you have before the EU mandated everyone should use micro-usb (or something equally standardized)? And how many do you have now? Personally I had 1 charger per device I had, each with their own weird connector, and each cable sold at $20+ a pop, and definitely more if you wanted a "data-cable". These days I only have 2: USB for almost everything, and Lighting for the Apple-thingies only. With a move like this, I can be down to having only 1 type of charger and connector. It'll be great!
    • neilalexander 4y ago
      I have no real preference whatsoever in the Lightning vs USB-C battle but it seems strange to me that the EU's approach to supposedly reducing e-waste is by condemning 10 years of Lightning accessories to becoming e-waste. An iPhone 4 charger from 2012 will still charge an iPhone 14 today. That doesn't seem incredibly wasteful to me.
      • josteink 4y ago
        > An iPhone 4 charger from 2012 will still charge an iPhone 14 today And it will after this move too. You'll just need to use a regular USB-A -> USB-C cable instead of a USB-A -> Lightning cable.
        • neilalexander 4y ago
          That's an awful lot of cables globally to discard.
          • ThatPlayer 4y ago
• mensetmanusman 4y ago
  I hope they ban the 90% of sold usb-c looking cables that aren’t actually usb-c compliant. Someone needs to build a simple device you connect a cable to that stress tests it and shows a green or red light.
  • moring 4y ago
    Did the current cable used by the iPhone have this problem too? If not, isn't this changing it to the worse? edit to clarify: ... because while Apple might still include a working cable, but if you grab one of the 10 cables out of your cable box, you don't know if it will actually work.
    • mensetmanusman 4y ago
      https://9to5mac.com/2018/08/22/how-to-choose-a-usb-c-cable/amp/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/08/22/how-to-choose-a-usb-c-cable/a... It would be funny if this ruling strengthened Apple’s position because no one knows which off-brand cable will destroy their device by not limiting current draw. Without strong regulations on the usb cables themselves, it almost seems like putting the cart before the horse.
      • izacus 4y ago
        What in the world are you talking about? Cables aren't the ones limiting current draw, they're cables. And the millions upon millions of USB-C devices in the world right now have no such issues with USB-C charging so where are you pulling these silly ideas from? You think the rockstar engineers of Apple aren't capable of designing a charging circuit with reliability of a 80$ Chinese manufactured Android phone?
        • altairprime 4y ago
          > Cables aren't the ones limiting current draw Incorrect. All USB-PD cables, whether their connectors are USB-A, -B, and/or USB-C, are responsible for honestly declaring their charging power limit to the charger and to the device, and in the USB-PD specifications are specifically responsible for limiting current draw to the rated capacity of the cable. Per USB PD spec: > Sources Shall detect the type of Attached cable and limit the Capabilities they offer based on the current carrying capability of the cable determined by the Cable capabilities determined using the Discover Identity Command (see Section 6.4.4.2) sent using SOP’ Communication (see Section 2.4) to the Cable Plug. > The Cable VDO returned as part of the Discover Identity Command details the maximum current and voltage values that Shall be negotiated for a given cable as part of an Explicit Contract. Cheap, lying, uncertified USB cables that declare their ability to support higher charging rates — for example, 100W which is 5A at 20V in USB — have been known to short out and destroy chargers and devices in the process of doing so. This was discussed in a couple hundred comments across multiple posts when a Google engineer had to pressure Amazon through product reviews to enforce USB-IF certification on all USB-C cables several years ago: 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11387212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11387212
• NextHendrix 4y ago
  This gives me some cognitive dissonance. On the one hand, having a common connector will reduce waste and be much more convenient (eg "Hey have you got an iPhone charger?") and make losing a charger a cheaper mistake. On the other hand I'm not sure I like the idea of government mandating electrical connectors on devices, which could stifle innovation, or be very shortsighted in the typical government-rules-on-tech way (eg "banning encryption"). I don't know what to think.
  • messe 4y ago
    I wouldn’t be too concerned. They did it before to standardise on micro USB, in such a way that didn’t stop manufacturers from moving to USB-C. This is really just an update of that same rule.
    • skohan 4y ago
      How did Apple dodge this with micro-USB?
      • throwaway744678 4y ago
        A dongle was available.
      • danhor 4y ago
        It was not a law, but an agreement (to stop the EU enacting a law) and dongles were sufficient. This is a law and dongles aren't sufficient.
      • pimterry 4y ago
        See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply - they included a dongle that allowed micro-USB charging of iPhones.
  • DoingIsLearning 4y ago
    The general principle is wait for the dust to settle and then enforce whatever is the industry majority with an agreed mature tech. Btw the same thing happened with the EV charging (SAE J1772).
• that_guy_iain 4y ago
  This is an awesome move in my opinion. While it's pretty much defactor making it universal and legally required will be with the cutter and waste that is created by often requiring a special charger or a different charge for a device.
  • Y-bar 4y ago
    Yes, a big finally! I love my Apple device (personal iPhone 12 mini, work iPhone 8, Apple TV 4K with new remote, iPad Air, ...) but the lightning connection should obviously have been retired a few years ago.
    • oneplane 4y ago
      > should obviously have been Except that it isn't obvious. You're essentially at the end of an extremely long and complicated supply chain for a multi-million device pipeline. You have no idea what a change, any change, involves. And because you don't know this (assuming you're not a supply chain engineer of design for manufacture specialist) you cannot state that it is obvious either. What is obvious is that some people would have liked it sooner, and what is also obvious is that the manufacturer (Apple) has been moving in that direction for years (on other lower-volume lower-risk devices).
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      • Y-bar 4y ago
        I'm obviously talking from a customer and consumer perspective, but can you provide any kind of explanation why implementing USB-C is problematic in the iPhone when it already is in the iPad and desktop and laptop Macs and Apple displays? Tim Cook made himself a legendary leader in logistics and manufacturing before taking on the CEO role for being able to do just what you say he would have problem doing.
        • oneplane 4y ago
• _ZeD_ 4y ago
  FUCK YEAH!!!
• captainmuon 4y ago
  Good decision, but bizarrely only after USB-C was established on almost every phone, except iPhones. I hope this has an expiration date, or they have a provision for easily updating the law when somebody develops a better standard. Otherwise this could mean we would be stuck with USB-C forever. (As a developer, writing "USB-C" in a law this seems to me like hardcoding a magic string in source code. Often, it is better to have your data separate from code. Maybe it would make more sense if the law would defer to some standards body, that could update the technical decision more easily.)
  • neilalexander 4y ago
    > As a developer, writing "USB-C" in a law this seems to me like hardcoding a magic string in source code Between various generations of Qualcomm Quick Charge and USB PD at various wattages for charging alone, and then USB 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 Gen 1, 3.2 Gen 2, 3.2 Gen 2 2x2, Thunderbolt 2, Thunderbolt 3 and Thunderbolt 4 for data, it seems like they have plenty of room for future movement/fragmentation.
• drewm1980 4y ago
  I switched to wireless charging pads because USB connectors keep failing on me. Now the USB connectors on my wireless charging pads are dying!
  • Ballas 4y ago
    There seems to be more than one common factor here...
• AlgorithmicTime 4y ago
• billpg 4y ago
  Around five years or so ago, I had lots of gadgets, all using Micro-USB. Life was good, I had purchased a job lot of cables and made sure every location on my house, car and desk at work had more than enough cables so any gadget would be ready to be charged up. Then I bought a new phone. I had a USB-C port. Suddenly, I couldn't charge it up just anywhere. If that phone had a Micro-USB version, I'd have chosen that one in a heartbeat. Yes, USB-C is nice. Better than Micro-USB. So good that it compensates for the hassle? No.
  • causi 4y ago
    Well, better in most ways. It's worse in a couple of minor ones. It's larger, so particularly tiny devices still come with microUSB charge ports. It also gets smooshed flat if you happen to step on it, which is a problem I had my first few months with a type-C phone.
  • skohan 4y ago
    I would argue it is good enough it compensates for the hassle. I think USB-C is one of the first "good enough" connectors we have had for the arbitrary use-case. It's reversible. It's suitable for high-power and high-bandwidth use-cases. It's robust. micro-USB works ok for charging small devices, but would it really make sense to replace USB-A with it for plugging peripherals into your PC for example?
    • billpg 4y ago
      Fair point, but my lived experience of USB-C is that several of my Micro-USB cables dotted around now have little converter heads added. My tablets and battery packs (and other gizmos) still need the Micro-USB port so I can't just replace the cables. Yes, being able to plug in the connector both ways around is nice, but it wasn't that inconvenient not to be able to do that, especially when put against the inconvenience of needing these extra heads. I can certainly imagine someone having similar frustrations when Mini-USB gave way to Micro-USB. I can only hope that when USB-D connectors come around, there's more than only small incremental improvements to get me on board.
• mdrzn 4y ago
  LET'S GO EU! These headlines make me proud. Let's reach a global standard for charging stuff. I wish everything that had to be charged sometimes had a USB-C plug. But also I hope that the USB standard gets less messy in the future.
  • acadapter 4y ago
    What if a device doesn't need all the extra pins in the USB-C connector? What if it only uses VBUS/D+/D-/GND?
    • counttheforks 4y ago
      Then you don't wire them up
    • danhor 4y ago
      There are cheaper USB-C connectors available with fewer pins for that purpose
    • ChrisRR 4y ago
      Presumably the same as when a device doesn't need all of the lightning pins
    • moolcool 4y ago
      Nothing happens-- most connecters on most devices have unused pins.
  • coffeeblack 4y ago
    There is no reason for USB to improve any further, because now it has to be used by law. Amazing that people still don’t get it.
    • Kuinox 4y ago
      Wait you think they somehow tried to compete with apple ? That's not how USB works.
• kypro 4y ago
  I like USB-C and would even be in favour of the iPhone using USB-C, but I really dislike the idea that EU regulators would know what's better for consumers than consumer electronics companies and the consumers themselves. I do kind of get it though. It's probably better for a whole host of reasons if electronics all used the same cords, but I guess you could make that argument for a lot of things. There would be benefits if there was only one mobile operating system or if all mobiles used the same interchangeable batteries, for example. When a standard makes sense companies will generally adopt it naturally. The fact so many manufacturers use USB-C today just proves that this probably doesn't need to be enforced. I suppose it's just strange to me this would even need to be a law or that there are people paid to pass laws like this.
  • Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
    Electronics companies decide what's best for them. Competition in the smart phone market is done, so consumers no longer have a say. These kinds of interoperability standards are great and would love to see more of them internationally.
    • kypro 4y ago
      Consumers still don't have a say. Now instead of companies choosing what hardware & features are best for their product, and you then choosing products based on your preferences, EU regulators are now forcing companies (and therefore you) to use whatever they think is best. I think in the case of USB-C it's not too bad just because USB-C is widely agreed to be a good connector that's already widely adopted, but there have been plenty of bad connectors in the past which in theory the EU could now be deciding consumer electronics companies are forced to use. This also assumes USB-C is always the best option which I doubt. I'm sure there are products which given the application, size or price point might suite a different cable better. Technology also moves on and connectors change for a reason. Now we're going to be stuck with outdated hardware until EU regulators update laws. At which companies and you as the consumer will be forced to adopt that new connector regardless of your preferences.
      • deleted 4y ago
• diebeforei485 4y ago
  Lightning is showing its age with how slow it is. USB 4 on iPhones, and ideally Thunderbolt on the Pro iPhones that shoot large videos, would be amazing.
• Vosporos 4y ago
  wooooooo finally some good news!!
• atemerev 4y ago
  One standard! One socket! One na.. wait oh shi
• nudgeee 4y ago
  Lightning had a good 10-year run. Let’s not forget that it was released a full 2 years before USB-C, and one of the first to being reversible connectors to the masses. Also, here is the final report commissioned by the EU: “Impact Assessment Study to Assess Unbundling of Chargers (July 2021)” [0]. [0] https://op.europa.eu/o/opportal-service/download-handler?identifier=90e9a07d-1054-11ec-9151-01aa75ed71a1&format=pdf&language=en&productionSystem=cellar&part= https://op.europa.eu/o/opportal-service/download-handler?ide...
• _trackno5 4y ago
  Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. A lightning cable weighs almost nothing and it's not a big deal to have one around. As to lightning port limitations, I question whether usb-c will give average iPhone users any other advantage other than charging their phone. What are people gonna do with it other than charge their phones or transfer files? Feels like there's nothing to celebrate here. Just the EU using its influence to exert control over things that don't matter at all.
  • webmobdev 4y ago
    > Why do people think it is a good thing to have this enforced by law is beyond me. It's because consumers have rights too. Standardising something actually fosters competition (healthy capitalism), increases profit (as standardising something often leads to lower manufacturing costs) while reducing costs for consumers (due to increased competition). It also reduces waste which is good for the environment. > I don't see any win besides a minor convenience. You will, when you have to buy another USB-C cable for your iDevice. I recently had to, for an iPad Air, and I was able to buy a good quality replacement USB-C cable (of similar spec) from Samsung for Rs. 750 (around $10) rather than paying Apple an exorbitant Rs. 2000 (around $20+). (Past experience with Apple cables has taught me that the higher price charged by Apple is no guarantee of better quality, and other non-Apple cables from reputed companies are often cheaper, more durable and last longer than Apple's).
    • danielheath 4y ago
      This I really don't get. It reads as though you're saying that non-apple cables are cheaper and better, and also that mandating USB-C is valuable because it means you don't have to buy cables from apple.
      • kioleanu 4y ago
        Most certainly there are cables that are much better than the ones Apple is selling. I’ve been an iPhone/iPad user for more than 10 years and I no longer use Apple cables because they are gone in 6-8 months. This is an issue they had from the very beginning and which they utterly ignored. In contrast, I bought an usb-c cable from one plus 5 years ago, which is still in perfect condition. With the iPhones, I use cables from some company (forgot the name) that have lifetime warranty. I swear I could tow my car with those, _for the same price_
• bodge5000 4y ago
  I'd certainly much rather type-c than lightning or, god forbid, micro usb, but it also has its own issues. Issues that one would hope would be solved by the usb-d, and so on. The problem with this law is that it makes it much more difficult to start using future usb standards. The EU addressed this by saying that they'll keep up with technology as it moves, but one thing that technology is famous for, and the EU is infamous for, is the speed at which it moves. 5 years is a blink of an eye in politics, and a lifetime in tech. Thats not to say we'll never see another USB version, I just worry this will considerably slow things down. It seems to me the more future-proof way to do this would be to force companies to use an open-standard. We'd still be stuck with the dreaded micro-usb, and possibly lightning if apple let everyone else use it too, but it solves the proprietary issue without locking us in for another ~10 years of just type-c
  • D13Fd 4y ago
    Saying they’ll keep up doesn’t really make sense. The regulation will cause innovation to slow or stop in this area. So there won’t be a whole lot to keep up with. After all, why invest money in improving your charging connector if you are going to be mandated to use USB-C anyway?
    • bodge5000 4y ago
      I said in another comment, its a chicken & egg problem. The EU will allow new standards as they're used, but nobody will use new standards until the EU allows it.
  • Dalewyn 4y ago
    Seeing as the U in USB stands for Universal, there are plenty of incentives besides politics to /not/ change physical designs such as the connections. USB-C's introduction was (and arguably still is) fairly disruptive because it invalidated the universal nature of USB-A (and to a lesser extent -B and Micro). Personally, I hope USB-C will be here to stay for at least the better part of a decade going forward. Finding that what was once universal won't be universal tomorrow is annoying.
  • Auracle 4y ago
• spiffytech 4y ago
  I'm eager to watch how Apple spins this as a voluntary decision in their product announcement. To see the specific wording they pick for how the timing is a coincidence and they really just care about their customers' best interests.
  • mwint 4y ago
    I’m kind of hoping they ship an EU Edition phone that is a normal phone, but with a dongle welded into the lightning port. The dongle should have the phone numbers of those who passed this law etched into it. Just let me keep my Lightning port as an American.
  • redox99 4y ago
    I think they'll just go full wireless.
  • boxed 4y ago
    I think Apple knows they need to switch, but now the EU will take all the bad press and their hands are clean. Such a huge PR win for Apple!
• Xophmeister 4y ago
  I didn't search _that_ hard, but I can't find the text of the EU directive; everything I did find does seem to mention USB-C explicitly. What is the procedure/convention for superseding this directive when something supersedes USB-C? That said, even if the upgrade path is not expressly defined, I think on balance this is still a good thing. In a "best time to plant a tree was yesterday; second best time is today" kind of way, when it comes to reducing e-waste.
  • haunter 4y ago
    Yes it explicitly says "USB Type-C" https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/A-9-2022-0129_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/A-9-2022-0129_... Hand-held mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, in so far as they are capable of being recharged via wired charging, shall: (a) be equipped with the USB Type-C receptacle, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021 ‘Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power - Part 1-3: Common components - USB Type-CTM Cable and Connector Specification’, which should remain accessible and operational at all times;
  • bodge5000 4y ago
    > What is the procedure/convention for superseding this directive when something supersedes USB-C? I believe the EU are saying they'll keep up with new standards as they come in. The problem I see is, how can a new standard come in if nobody is allowed to use it. Its a chicken & egg problem, the EU will allow new standards as they're used, but nobody is allowed to use new standards until the EU allows it. Thats aside from the obvious problem that the EU isnt exactly famous for its speed. The only ways around it I can think of is either if new standards become popular in markets foreign to the EU, or if some company decides to add both USB-C and USB-D to their device, which in a world of needlessly removing the headphone jack I cant see happening.
    • temprose 4y ago
      The connector can still remain the same while the internal changes. USB-C is just the connector head. Look at USB4 that still uses the USB-C head. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4 It's just like we have new modern electronics, but they are all able to plug into the same wall sockets. I don't have to remodel my home.
• sam_lowry_ 4y ago
  Why not enforcing split sales? Charger apart from phone? Pretty much like they should have done with computers and OSes in 2009. Mind you, split sale = two items at checkout and the oppotunity to buy separately.
  • ThatPlayer 4y ago
    Yes, that was part of the proposal: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_4613 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_21_... > Unbundling the sale of a charger from the sale of the electronic device
• thiht 4y ago
  What happens if a constructor wants to push for full wireless charging? I didn't read the texts, but wouldn't something like mandating companies to release a version of their products with USB-C better instead of only allowing USB-C? Say for example Apple wants to release iPhone 20 with Lightning, or full wireless, then force them to also release iPhone 20 with USB-C and leave the choice to consumers? Is this allowed by the texts?
  • haunter 4y ago
    The text literally say ""in so far as they are capable of being recharged via wired charging" So pretty much nothing, a manufacturer can go straight to wireless charging.
• auggierose 4y ago
  Did the EU just forbid improving on USB-C? Are cables really creating such a waste compared with the amount of resources that goes into creating the devices themselves?
• roenxi 4y ago
  This legislation would have been stupid at any other time in the history of hardware. It will prove to be stupid now as well. There is no reason to think the USB-C is the peak of technical achievement or even consistently a local optimum design choice. The EU has enough problems right now, they don't need to try and help Apple design iPhones.
  • nolok 4y ago
    This is not about making the best technical choice, this is about ecology and limiting waste, which frankly is a very important and urgent issue. They let the industry regulate itself before regulating, Apple didn't play ball, leading to samsung saying either regulation or we do our thing too, so, regulation. I prefer a slightly worse technical solution and a regulation that needs to be updated every few years, than every phone going back to the waste hell that used to be the cellphone charger/cable market.
    • roenxi 4y ago
      > This is not about making the best technical choice... Thank goodness for the EU parliament, protecting their citizenry from accidentally being exposed to the best technical outcome? Wouldn't want that. If people can't confidently say that the EU is making the best technical choices then the EU shouldn't be legislating technical outcomes. And they can't say that, because this isn't going to be the best choice - the best choice is flexible and context dependent. There are going to be better options than USB-C in some use cases. Possibly many use cases as technology improves. The legislators can't see the future - if they could they'd make better decisions. I bet this doesn't have any material difference on waste. People will still lose and throw charges out at the same rate they always have. And manufacturers are going to turn out to be less efficient, the market is absolutely cut-throat at dealing with manufacturing processes that generate unnecessary waste. It won't be better than it is now, and they've locked out anyone doing a cheaper and less material-intensive charger than USB-C.
      • nolok 4y ago
        > Thank goodness for the EU parliament, protecting their citizenry from accidentally being exposed to the best technical outcome? Wouldn't want that. That is a nice way to completly miss the point and how we got there, but you do you. > I bet this doesn't have any material difference on waste. I bet it does, you're again missing the point, it's about not going back to what we had before, and what we have now made a significant different to what we had before. > the market is absolutely cut-throat at dealing with manufacturing processes that generate unnecessary waste. Ah ah ah ah. Pretty much every phone until very recently had a paid of low quality headphones that were instantly thrown out or put in a box and forgotten, and it only disapeared because jack is going away, so your own exemple doesn't work. > There are going to be better options than USB-C in some use cases. Possibly many use cases as technology improves. The legislators can't see the future - if they could they'd make better decisions. Yes, so the regulation will need to be kept up to date, just like regulations on things like food, pesticides, industrial processes, ... Still, parliament recognized the inferiority on the technical level of a system driven by regulation in this specific case and offered manufacturers to handle it themselves without involving them, but they couldn't (more specifically, apple refused). Anyway, each his point of view, these people are elected and I personnaly consider this a big issue that I'm glad to see resolved by my representatives.
• DrNosferatu 4y ago
  Can anyone please post a link to the list of MEPs who voted against? (or the complete list of vote directions) Thanks!
  • haunter 4y ago
    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-9-2022-10-04-RCV_FR.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-9-2022-10-0... Against: ECR (European Conservatives and Reformists ): Ilčić (Croatia), Jurzyca (Slovakia), Zahradil (Czechia) ID (Identity and Democracy ): Haider (Austria), Kofod (Denmark), Mayer (Austria), Vilimsky (Austria) PPE (European People's Party Group): Herbst (Germany)
  • looperhacks 4y ago
    You can find a PDF [1] on the website of the european parliament [1] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-9-2022-10-04-RCV_FR.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-9-2022-10-0... page 16
• jhoelzel 4y ago
  "Starting in 2026, USB-C will also become the norm for laptop chargers." I believe it when I see it! My Surfacebook has USB-C Charging but its not enough to run the GPU at max. I hate the surface dock that I need to use but from my understanding -i do have to use it- because of the power requirments.
  • iampivot 4y ago
    USB-C can easily deliver 100w continuously if the charger and laptop supports it.
    • capableweb 4y ago
      Seems current USB-C is limited to 100W, future will be limited to 240W. Seems most modern mobile GPUs could exceed 100W, but are within 240W at least so seems we're relatively safe. But who knows with the new GPUs... Maybe should be a bit more headroom?
      • neogodless 4y ago
        Just some reference numbers off the top of my head. Mobile GPU max power (using Geforce examples) 80W GTX 1660 Ti (mainstream/high end before Geforce RTX took off) 115W RTX 2060 (if OEM tunes it that high) 140W RTX 3070 175W RTX 3080 Ti
        • jhoelzel 4y ago
          Exactly! paired with a powerfull cpu you will drain the battery while working on full performance. Also sadly there are multiple reports about this issue with microsoft products too. That and coil whine...
        • rtkwe 4y ago
          Does the law require only USB-C charging or must charge by USB-C? The language of "will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C charging port" makes it sound like it's only required to take USB-C power not that it can't have a higher power alternate port.
• sudden_dystopia 4y ago
  Because they don’t have bigger things to worry about right now…
  • nolok 4y ago
    One, large entities like that have a lot of people working on a lot of things, and the people dealing with whatever emergency is the current one are not disturbed or slowed down by that in the slightest Two, if you wait until everything is perfect and there are no issue to fix the everyday things, then you never do. Your comment makes no sense.
  • JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
  • akmarinov 4y ago
    That's like saying that you have you a mortgage to take care of, so you have no time to buy groceries, make food, eat and spend time with family.
• akmarinov 4y ago
  Currently Apple sells new iPhone 12s, a 3 year old "design". Starting 2024, they'll have to only sell phones with USB-C in the EU. Assuming the iPhone 15 has USB-C, where does that leave the previous generations that they keep selling for new? Do they: 1. Stop selling anything but the 15 in the EU? 2. Make a change to all new iPhones, even 13, 14, SE to: 2.1 Take out the port completely and leave it portless, with Magsafe for charging 2.2 Change the 13, 14 and SE designs to USB-C just for the EU? What costs them the least money and makes them the most?
  • xattt 4y ago
    Tesla appears to have no problem selling EVs with standard plugs in places where it’s mandatory. (1) https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/14/tesla-model-3-in-europe-will-come-with-a-ccs-charging-port/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/14/tesla-model-3-in-europe... I think Apple will find a way to say that the iPhone 12 was made before the law was enacted and therefore shouldn’t apply to this particular model. I also think the iPhone 15 will be the one to have with USB-C. At the same time, they haven’t had too many problems to keep multiple SKUs of the same model - ie CDMA iPhone 4, mmWave only 5G phones in the US, eSIM only versions of later models.
  • Heliosmaster 4y ago
    From the text of the Proposal: > With respect to charging by means other than wired charging, divergent solutions may be developed in the future, which may have negative impacts on interoperability, consumer convenience and the environment. Whilst it is premature to impose specific requirements on such solutions at this stage, the Commission should be able to take action towards harmonising them in the future, if fragmentation on the internal market is observed. So they left the door open to regulate also Magsafe etc.
• wdb 4y ago
  Nice, it is pretty stupid I need Lightning cable for my iPhone, an USB-C cable for my iPad and MacBook and electric tooth brush. One less able that I can be lost
• sva_ 4y ago
  Now do Laptops.
  • danielbln 4y ago
    They did, coming into effect in 2026.
• imchillyb 4y ago
  This year Apple removed another long standing port from their devices. This time around it was the sim tray. Apple is going completely portless with their devices. By the time this law is in effect there will be no external ports on Apples devices. Anyone want to take bets on whether Apple introduces its own wireless charging standard at that time or the following year?
  • zimpenfish 4y ago
    > This time around it was the sim tray. Only in the US, I believe. My UK iPhone 14 certainly has a SIM tray with a physical SIM in it - lucky, really, because my provider doesn't support eSIMs. [edit: just checked and it seems my provider is the only big one that doesn't support them.]
    • nottorp 4y ago
      > just checked and it seems my provider is the only big one that doesn't support them And how about the small ones? I see eSim as limiting choice. First the provider must support it. Second they have to support it and be compatible with my phone. Third, how do you switch providers with an eSim? Do you need to contact servers for both the provider you're leaving and the one you're switching to? What if one of them is not reachable? How likely is it that the provider you're turning off can put in some innocent administrative hurdles? Physical sims seem to give me a lot more choice since no one has any say in what I plug into the phone.
      • zimpenfish 4y ago
        > And how about the small ones? I see eSim as limiting choice. I think most of the UK's small providers are just virtual providers (MVNOs)backed onto one of the big ones - eSIM support would presumably just be an option they select. > Third, how do you switch providers with an eSim? Haven't checked but I suspect it's exactly the same as porting your number with a physical SIM which, in the UK, is basically either a webform or phoning up to get a code from customer service. > How likely is it that the provider you're turning off can put in some innocent administrative hurdles? In the UK, zero, because they are explicitly prohibited from putting up any kind of obstruction to people wanting to move providers.
• PaulWaldman 4y ago
  I wonder what the EU thinks of Tesla's charging port? Will all electric cars in the EU eventually be regulated into using J1772 ports without an adapter?
  • kalleboo 4y ago
    Tesla superchargers in the EU all use the standard CCS2 ports. Tesla model 3 cars in Europe have the standard CCS2 port instead of the Tesla port, the older models ship with adapters. For car charging, the industry appears to be self-regulation well enough.
  • tehbeard 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure if I remember a technology connections video right, that EU Tesla's already ship with either the standard port or an adapter, none of the US supercharger plug mess.
    • wincy 4y ago
      Do they charge as fast? Is there a trade off for the standard port being used in the EU?
      • ShockedUnicorn 4y ago
        Tesla's plug support max 250kw charging, while CCS2, the standard in EU supports 350kw max. The trade off for the CCS2 plug is mainly that it is a bit bigger than other plugs, but it's really nice to have a standard across almost all of Europe.
  • jeroenhd 4y ago
    Most Teslas in the EU use the standard ports. I believe the Tesla charging network also uses these. Imported Teslas probably need some kind of adapter to work.
  • sebazzz 4y ago
    EU doesn't use J1772 but CCS Combo 2 instead (for DC fast charging and AC). Vehicles without DC charging usually have a Mennekes connector. Tesla has an adapter to allow charging via CCS. Almost all cars in Europe use CCS, except for a few older Asian cars which may use CHAdeMO. Modern Tesla vehicles also use standard CCS. Besides, this EU regulation is for small portable electronics. Last time I checked I didn't carry my car in my back pocket. Legislation to require CCS on charging points has been active in the EU since 2014, 8 years ago.
• klworks 4y ago
• pain2022 4y ago
  Forced usb-c charger for laptops is concerning. 1) it is additional attack vector, what if maid in my hotel enhanced my charging brick with rubber ducky? 2) mag safe is very convenient
  • thefz 4y ago
    Why? I use the same Baseus 65-W power brick for two phones and two laptops very, very conveniently. And GAN chargers are a third of the size of traditional power bricks. Also, who cares about magsafe? Only Apple laptops have it. I think the move to USB-C is a smart one, it can even reach 100W. Speeds are insane too.
    • wincy 4y ago
      Gaming laptops draw over 100W. Won’t this eliminate an entire market of laptops that require specialized plugs that can deliver more power? Or else you’ll end up with the dreaded “dies while it’s plugged in” situation.
      • thefz 4y ago
        USB-C will deliver up to 240W.
      • abracadabra_ 4y ago
        "...laptops that are rechargeable via a wired cable, operating with a power delivery of up to 100 Watts, will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C port" From: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220930IPR41928/long-awaited-common-charger-for-mobile-devices-will-be-a-reality-in-2024 https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220930IP...
      • krzyk 4y ago
        Besides the fact that USB-C was updated to support 240W, laptop can have e.g. two USB-C ports for charging.
    • scrlk 4y ago
      USB-C for laptop chargers isn't a fantastic idea IMO. The majority of laptop manufacturers solder USB-C ports to the motherboard, so when the port inevitably wears out/becomes loose, you need to have micro soldering skills to replace it. Putting the USB-C port on a daughterboard (or flex cable as seen in phones) isn't easy to do if you want to push USB 4 speeds through the port (40 Gbit/s). Compare that with the traditional barrel connector which is usually an easy repair. Most designs have the barrel connector on a cable assembly rather than having the connector soldered to the motherboard.
• Fiahil 4y ago
  Fast-Forward to Autumn 2023 or Spring 2024 : Tim Cook: (40:20) Now let’s talk about iPhone. iPhone has forever changed the world. Every single day people rely on iPhone, from their most demanding tasks to capturing the moments of their lives, streaming their favorite TV shows, playing their favorite games, staying up to date with the news of the world and connecting with friends and loved ones. Tim Cook: (40:42) This is what drives us to create the best iPhone possible. To create an experience unlike any other, with legendary ease of use, beautiful and durable designs with water resistance and great battery life, with industry leading performance and the world’s most advanced camera systems, and with privacy built in. People love iPhone, and we keep making iPhone better, more powerful, more capable, and even more fun to use. Today, we are thrilled to introduce our next generation of iPhone. Here it is. Tim Cook: (41:54) [inaudible 00:41:54] Tim Cook: (41:55) This is iPhone {15,16}. To tell you more, here’s Kianne. Cayenne: (42:24) Let’s take a closer look at, iPhone {15,16}, starting with design. It has the sleek, flat edge design that people love. It also have a fantastic new charging port, featuring the same USB-C connector as our beloved iPad, developed in a tremendous effort to {fight against climate change and electronic waste,further enhance the connectivity of the iPhone {15,16}}.
  • nucatus 4y ago
    Say no more. You're hired.
  • WithinReason 4y ago
    I thought it was going to have no ports and only wireless charging
    • Bilal_io 4y ago
      Unless I can charge it with my body temperature, I don't want anything to do with a device that has no connector.
      • oaiey 4y ago
        I would be careful with the body temperature statement :)
• Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4y ago
  > Starting in 2026, USB-C will also become the norm for laptop chargers. Fuck off! Barrel plugs are great.
  • sbuk 4y ago
    Certainly if the quality of USB-C ports on Thinkpads in anything to go by.
    • peteradio 4y ago
      Have thinkpads 2+ years but don't have any issues. What is the problem with the ports?
      • sbuk 4y ago
        Had 2 Thinkpads through work from new - x280 and P14s. Both, within a month, had issues with the cable falling out of the socket. Tried several different cables, all fell out. The build quality is shitty by-and-large; I currently have keyboard keys that squeak and creek on the P series, cheap, plasticky and overpriced rubbish.
• 0x0 4y ago
  What happens when "USB-D" is designed? Will it be illegal to upgrade to in Europe? Also I wonder if this will push Apple to go wireless-only.
  • temprose 4y ago
    The connector can still remain the same while the internal changes. USB-C is just the connector head. Look at USB4 that still uses the USB-C head. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4
    • ralfd 4y ago
      Yes, but are we now stuck with the USB-C connector head? Is a smaller form factor now impossbile?
• cabirum 4y ago
  Any guarantees a new, incompatible USB standard does not get introduced soon after? (Or even before end of 2024) The one true universal charging port is a round DC plug. USB power delivery should only be used to power external devices.
• dahfizz 4y ago
  Is this just mandating the physical plug? USB-C has a near infinite number of power delivery and/or data modes. Not to mention thunderbolt, display port, etc which are totally different protocols running on the same physical cable as USB-C. How will this legislation be maintained? Are Europeans going to be stuck to USB-C in 30 years, when the rest of the world has phones that charge wirelessly in 10 seconds and last for weeks?
  • nucatus 4y ago
    The core of the law is to have the same standard across the entire consumer products. Which basically it is already, only Apple having the power to ask you more money for unnecessary accessories whilst contributing to more e-waste, even if they talk against it - hypocricy detected.
  • gumby 4y ago
    It mandates Type C plug and receptacle and the use of PD. PD 3.0 doesn’t require so many modes, and since there isn’t much choice in chipsets things should work OK as long as the brick provides adequate power. Read the directive for yourself: https://oeil.secure.europarl.europa.eu/oeil/popups/ficheprocedure.do?reference=2021/0291(COD)&l=en https://oeil.secure.europarl.europa.eu/oeil/popups/ficheproc... I do wish there were type C USB condoms that passed PD only but they are hard to build. EU previously required USB mini A, and permit wireless (which isn’t completely standardized) so I wouldn’t worry about the “30 years” problem, though it’s a good problem to have: IEC 60320 is over 50 years old: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320
    • dahfizz 4y ago
      Very informative, thanks!
• harvie 4y ago
  Well. Somebody said they will just ship adaptors with the iPhones...
  • timbit42 4y ago
    Then iPhone users will be stuck with Lightning's USB2 speeds.
  • skinnymuch 4y ago
    Wouldn’t that count as a dongle? Those aren’t allowed.
• bb123 4y ago
  What happens when we want to move on from USBC? Do we need a stamp of approval from the EU to do it? No thanks.
  • temprose 4y ago
    The connector can still remain the same while the internal changes. USB-C is just the connector head. Look at USB4 that still uses the USB-C head. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4 It's just like we have new modern electronics, but they are all able to plug into the same wall sockets. I don't have to remodel my home.
    • jmull 4y ago
      That doesn't really answer the question, though. Is the USB-C connector going to be the best connector for everything on into the future? What about mag-safe-like connectors? Wireless? Something you and I can't even think of right now? Introducing such a connector won't be an engineering challenge so much as a political one. The barriers and cost will be much higher, and quite possibly insurmountable from a practical perspective.
      • amelius 4y ago
        You can say the same thing about wall sockets. At some point you have to make a choice. And you can always add another type of plug next to the existing one. <- this answers your question
        • jen20 4y ago
          The EU has not done this with wall sockets though. And the idea of just installing two is particularly beclowning.
          • amelius 4y ago
            > The EU has not done this with wall sockets though. Because Apple doesn't make entire homes, I guess. > And the idea of just installing two is particularly beclowning. Why? A connector does not consume a significant amount of resources.
• dividedbyzero 4y ago
  No mention of sex toys, even though globally I believe that market is already larger than the smartwatch market. Are they covered but not mentioned in the article, or have they been left out?
  • TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
    Another fucking adaptor.
• whiddershins 4y ago
  I genuinely believe if Apple thought USB-C was better for the phone they would have implemented it. For one thing, I suspect it is harder to the make the phone as thin, or as waterproof, with the bigger connector. Apple also doesn’t have a monopoly, Android has far larger market share globally than they do. I’m confused what is supposed to happen as new connectors are developed, will the Eu prevent progress on phone connectors or does this law have a sunset? I’m having trouble seeing a bright side here. If we’d had this law before we would all be stuck using mini-usb.
  • MikusR 4y ago
    To make lightning cables/devices you have to pay apple. To make USB-C you don't
• tommoor 4y ago
  This is great in the short term, but does the law covers what happens when a superior format is invented in a few years. Are we stuck legislated to the old plug?
  • coffeeblack 4y ago
    No superior format will be invented, because it would be illegal to use it anyway. This is how progress is destroyed. It’s not the first time.
    • hu3 4y ago
      If you read the law you'll see that your concern was taken into consideration and they planned for innovation. More info in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33080042 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33080042
  • LeetHacks 4y ago
    No, the law allows for technological innovation if the usb group proposes a new connector, or if the industry wants to move to another connector. It will require some lobbying though, but the big tech companies are well skilled in that.
    • tommoor 4y ago
      Seems like a reasonable compromise
  • pimterry 4y ago
    I'm not sure the mechanism, but it's certainly _intended_ to support future standards. Quoting from the press release (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220930IPR41928/long-awaited-common-charger-for-mobile-devices-will-be-a-reality-in-2024 https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220930IP...): > This future-proof law allows for the development of innovative charging solutions in the future Also says they're already looking at how to support interoperability during a future migration to wireless charging too.
• qwertyuiop_ 4y ago
  • etiennebausson 4y ago
    I suppose petty outburst are an explanation for your comment, given that this law has been in the works since 2018, and anticipated since 2005. I truly have no idea what your links have to do with the subject.
• IYasha 4y ago
  What about photo and video industry? It is SO maddening to have proprietary incompatible overpriced plugs, cables and adapters everywhere!
  • heckelson 4y ago
    i believe the article mentions video and photo gadgets too, but I only skimmed it briefly
• emaro 4y ago
  I agree with the overall tone in the comments here: yay in general, but what a shame a law needs to specify a specific port for ~iPhones~ devices. I really like USB-C. It's sooo convenient to charge my notebook, my headphones, my phone, my everything with the same cable. However what bothers me since someone pointed it out to me: for phones, which are used all day in all kind of situations, lightning has a big andvantage over USB-C. It's has no parts inside the port and therefore is harder to break. Maybe we get something like this with USB-D, but hopefully it will take a long time until then. Meanwhile I'll enjoy my Fairphone, which has a replacable USB-C port.
  • nottorp 4y ago
    Well i really like magsafe :)
    • jayd16 4y ago
      They're not incompatible. They make bootleg magsafe USB-C cables.
      • CGamesPlay 4y ago
        Beware, there is a lot of actual safety equipment that goes into a MagSafe connector that probably isn’t in the knock-offs. Moving 5 A of current can cause a spark and start a fire right in your lap. - http://www.righto.com/2013/06/teardown-and-exploration-of-magsafe.html http://www.righto.com/2013/06/teardown-and-exploration-of-ma... - http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-teardown.html http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-te...
        • nottorp 4y ago
          I have a "bootleg" magsafe usb-c cable for my 2018 "worst model in history" mbpro with emoji keyboard. When I bought it i did the research and random magnetic cables on amazon were reviewed along the lines of "this burned my laptop". I ended up getting an (expensive-ish) one from my local apple dealer. I'd rather have Apple do it thank you.
• zaphod420 4y ago
  So many problems and this is what politicians spend their time on. SMH.
• donatj 4y ago
  This is supposed to "prevent e-waste", but I can't imagine how. Like I've switched between iOS and Android, and I didn't just throw all my lightning cables out. Now with them being made actually useless rather than not what I'm using right now, it's going to create so much e-waste when every iPhone user switches cables. Seems like it's doing the exact opposite of what it's intended.
  • pimterry 4y ago
    It also mandates that manufacturers must make "do you want a charger" optional in purchases of electronic devices, which is where waste reduction comes in. That only works because the chargers are all interoperable, and hopefully leads to a world where far fewer device chargers & cables are produced and distributed unnecessarily.
    • donatj 4y ago
      If it were about chargers, you'd only need to dictate the plug on the charger, not the plug on the phone.
  • timbit42 4y ago
    It creates some more e-waste now but will reduce e-waste by a lot in the future.
• asasidh 4y ago
  Imagine if we had to wait for legislators to get any tech innovation. EU is proving that it is going backwards in everything with each move.
• owisd 4y ago
  Everyone upset about losing lightning. Apple will 'malicious compliance' this and keep the lightning port and just add a USB-C port that does charging and nothing else.
  • ReptileMan 4y ago
    It will be damn ugly. Non starter.
  • saurik 4y ago
    I am much more expecting them to do something like remove the port entirely and move to wireless charging only; or, for maximum humor value, make the lightning port incapable of charging the phone in Europe only, such that it isn't a charging port there and thereby isn't subject to the regulations (forcing only the people in Europe to use wireless charging).
    • seanw444 4y ago
      Now that would be funny.
    • gempir 4y ago
      As far as I understand the ruling they have to have a USB C port on their device that allows charging. Removing the port entirely is not an option.
      • jen20 4y ago
        Can you quote the part that you believe enforces that?
• whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  I'd rather it hadn't come to this because I don't believe in regulation to this extent. But there honestly hasnt been any excuse for a long time for them not to do it. Especially when some other iOS products have it, same with the AirPods case. It's purely to make more money from cables and you can tell this from the lengths they go to that make sure non-legit cables are so unreliable and have DRM.
  • rmccue 4y ago
    AirPods use Lightning cables for charging, not USB-C. (Potentially your sentence could be read the other way though so not sure if you intended to say that.)
    • whywhywhywhy 4y ago
      You knew what I meant so it doesn’t matter.
• Night_Thastus 4y ago
  I have no sympathy or love for Apple, but this seems wrong. Technology comes and goes, standards evolve and fall away as new ones arrive. I don't think the law has any place in deciding who uses what connector in this fashion. They can make an e-waste argument all they want, but it's nonsense. All it does is stifle future work on connectors and devices in general.
  • manuelabeledo 4y ago
    Apple has actively participated in the USB-IF almost from its inception. The answer to your conundrum is thus quite simple: Apple must now work with the standards it has helped create.
  • Deukhoofd 4y ago
    The law just makes it so that a single industry standard must be followed. Changing this standard is fairly easy, it just requires the European Commission to amend it. This means that if there's a better connector, USB-IF (being made up out of most of the people actually designing the hardware using it) can just release a new standard and get it approved. Edit: It's actually the Commission, not parliament that's allowed to change standards.
    • logicalmonster 4y ago
      > This means that if there's a better connector, What if there's more than 1 design in progress for a better cable and connector with competing tradeoffs? Designing stuff means picking the right tradeoffs. For instance, you could probably design a phone that is close to indestructible and has a battery that lasts for a month if you made it as big as a brick, but obviously nobody wants that. For cable connectors, there's all kinds of subtle tradeoffs that could be taken into account: data transfer speed, electricity transfer, size and weight of cable, how easy it is to connect and how secure it is when connected, its role in waterproofing, stability in heat and challenging environments, security, etc. Are you really comfortable with some parliamentary committee vote picking between the right design tradeoffs? And what if there's a connector that's slightly better than the existing one today, but you know that something that's clearly much better is ready in about 1-3 years? Can a parliament have the judgement needed to make the right engineering decision in the face of loads of political pressures? Their choice has to be right because no market alternative would exist. Do you genuinely feel comfortable with this? I sure don't.
• necovek 4y ago
  I personally already have a number of USB-C cables that had their connectors detach at one point or another. They are mostly braided, rather thick, 100W-rated PD cables, but they generally suck and are quick to break (I keep a couple at my desk, a couple in my car, a couple stored away for travel, and a couple bedside — it's great they can charge both my laptop and my phone). Connectors in my devices also look a bit fragile. I am all for sharing connectors and standardization in this space (and I check if a device has an USB-C port before I consider it), but I surely hope this does not stop improvements to the charging port which are highly needed!
  • jeffbee 4y ago
    USB-C cables and ports are more fragile than Lightning cables and ports, unfortunately. USB-C is sort of the complement of Lightning: instead of a sturdy paddle on the cable end, it has a delicate paddle inside the port. It is very easy to break this paddle off. That happened almost immediately to my Nexus 5x, one of the first USB-C implementations. You can also easily break off the pins when you need to clean pocket lint out of the port, an extremely common problem for mobile phones. Physically, Lightning is a much more robust solution.
• cyborgx7 4y ago
  Self-regulation only works if government regulation is a serious threat in case self-regulation fails. In this case, self-regulation failed, so government regulation stepped in to force industry to do what is right. All the handwringing about stifling innovation is on its face ridiculous as mandates to use micro-usb didn't stop android phones from adopting the new and better standard as soon as it was viable.
  • Krkrmfnfmmd 4y ago
    Government mandates on how you can charge your phone won't stifle innovation?
    • emptyfile 4y ago
      Was that a question? Of course not. In fact the parent comment even provides an example.
    • garmanarnar 4y ago
      Correct! In fact it can even help innovation.
    • pimterry 4y ago
      Yes, it won't. As parent points out, the EU previously mandated micro-usb support (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply) which worked fairly well, and hasn't stifled the innovation that's resulted in USB-C.
      • nulld3v 4y ago
        > the EU previously mandated micro-usb support No they didn't, compliance is voluntary, just read the linked wiki page. I agree with the point that it won't stifle Innovation though. The swift passing of the USB-C mandate has proven to me that the EU can move quickly, so if a new connector comes along they will be able to switch the law reasonably quickly.
• the_other 4y ago
  And just like that, 100s of 3rd party devices become obsolete and worthless.
  • timbit42 4y ago
    No, they will still work.
• donatj 4y ago
  Are there exceptions to this for things like small devices? For instance, my Xiaomi smart watch charges with a USB->magnetic pogo pin adapter and that seems apt for the small size. Way easier than trying to fiddle with a tiny door covering a USB port like on some of my headphones.
  • etiennebausson 4y ago
    Quoting the article: >> Exemptions will apply for devices that are too small to offer a USB-C port, such as smart watches, health trackers, and some sports equipment, but the legislation is expected to be expanded to other devices over time. Companies will also have to ensure that dedicated labels clearly inform consumers about the charging characteristics of devices they buy.
• chasd00 4y ago
  A law specifying a technical hardware feature on a consumer device not related to safety is ridiculous. Is there no other higher priority for the EU to work on?
  • Avamander 4y ago
    I'm sure the EU isn't single-threaded.
  • Zigurd 4y ago
    Like the law regulating every power cord attached to every AC powered device ever?
    • jen20 4y ago
      That is nominally related to safety, is not mandated EU wide, and if it were would be a great example of a dumb idea unless they standardized on the type G plug. I have encountered four different connectors just this week in the EU, none of which are as safe as the British design.
• yourusername 4y ago
  Apple should love it. No way a USB-C port lasts 5 years in daily use.
  • dzikimarian 4y ago
    My oneplus from 2017 would like a word with you.
• burlesona 4y ago
  There’s an eternal conflict between “Chaotic but Smart” vs “Orderly but Dumb.” Historically the tech industry has been very much on the side of “Chaotic but Smart.” This is a victory for “Orderly but Dumb.” For the essential read, see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State
• Hippocrates 4y ago
  USB-C is inferior from the hardware/form standpoint. It's a larger, more fragile and flimsy connector (than lightning) which is very un-apple. It can be crimped shut if rolled on by a chair. Additionally the charging standards are a total mess, with PD and QC requiring compatible chargers and cables, which are often unlabeled. I'm all for a great charging standard but USB-C ain't it.
  • izacus 4y ago
    Apple itself is using the USB-C connector on their Apple MacBooks and Apple iPads. Somehow it's "Apple" there?! (Seriously, why am I constantly seeing these utterly ridiculous comments in Apple topics? Do you not think for half a second before writing something utterly misguided?)
    • phendrenad2 4y ago
      Well maybe it's because you're also misguided. You missed the part where they use USB-C where appropriate. Think for just a second about how people use different devices, and you'll understand. Or if I have to explain: iPads are mostly used by responsible adults (such as parents). iPhones are used by a wide range of people who might be charging them while driving on the road, while sitting in a chair, in a public transit terminal, etc. iPhones need a much more rugged connector. So I suggest that you "think for half a second before writing".
  • simplyinfinity 4y ago
    Is this why Apple use USB-C on some of their iPads?
    • seanw444 4y ago
      That's a fantastic point actually. I wonder why they choose to use USB-C at all for any device, when Lightning is objectively better from a physical engineering standpoint.
      • 4y ago
• teekert 4y ago
  But can they still drop the port altogether? I bet they will, going full MagSafe.
• idkwhoiam 4y ago
  Just a regular day in the EU. Can the EU pass law for all cars to use the same tyre dimensions? A set of EU approved haircuts would also be very welcome! /s
  • nudgeee 4y ago
    Closer to mandating common EV charging connectors, which has already happened in the EU (CCS Type 2).
• exabrial 4y ago
  Apple is just going to remove all ports. Keep complaining and they're going to remove screens next to be super super duper innovative.
  • timbit42 4y ago
    The EU did this to help the environment. Wireless charging is less efficient than charging cable and wastes electricity, so we may see the EU ban wireless charging.
    • mwint 4y ago
      Apple should ban the EU, that’d straighten this mess out pretty quick.
      • timbit42 4y ago
        That wouldn't be a big deal. Not as many people own iPhones outside the US.
• pier25 4y ago
  Ironic isn't it? Considering Apple was enforcing USB-C on their MBPs back in 2016 to try to impose innovation.
• shaman1 4y ago
  Being recently in the market for car tires I say that some standardisation benefits the consumer and reduces waste. There are so many sizes of tires that you have limited choice on purchase and resell. Unfortunately there is no incentive for companies to standardize because they loose revenue. Apple can make a custom port and sell an overpriced cable and adapter for it. Maybe it's slightly better but is it that much better to worth keeping it? There should be a work group that takes more of these decisions with the aim to reduce waste says the dreamer in my but the circumspect thinks otherwise. If Apple invents a revolutionary port what happens next? Do they need EU approval?
  • karolist 4y ago
    Car tire sizes are designed for specific wheel sizes (diameter and width), which in turn are manufactured on criteria such as arch sizes, break disc and caliper clearance requirements, engine power, steering mechanism and suspension setup (for offset) and of course looks. Car wheels are interchangeable to an extent but you have to maintain same diameter to keep speed measurement accurate, so bigger wheel results in thinner tires for summer for example, and smaller, cheaper and uglier wheels for winter season where you risk curb damage, but then smaller wheel - taller tire. We would have to give up the massive car choice amounts we have to standardise here so I'd say not a great analogy.
• kalleboo 4y ago
  The EU tried very hard, for very many years to signal to the industry "do this yourself so you don't have to legislate it, we don't want to legislate it, you don't want us to legislate it" but Apple (and only Apple) just refused to listen, so here we are. For micro-USB, they got the industry together in a "memorandum of understanding" to get them to self-implement it without regulation, and it worked great - everyone adopted micro-USB, and then could switch to USB-C, without thinking about legislation with the understanding that the industry would use common standards. The whole rest of the industry adopted the common standard and are looking at Apple "hey if they can do it why can't we?". If the EU doesn't crack down on Apple now, we're going to end up back again with a Samsung charger, a Sony charger etc.
  • kortilla 4y ago
    >The EU tried very hard, for very many years to signal to the industry "do this yourself so you don't have to legislate it, we don't want to legislate it, you don't want us to legislate it" but Apple (and only Apple) just refused to listen, so here we are. This doesn’t make the approach any less interventionist. “Either do what we want or we’ll pass an official regulation for you to do what we want” isn’t much of a choice. Tell me, if Apple truly believes their lightning connector is better, what was the better play here? Intentionally make a worse product (from their perspective) or keep making the better user experience for as long as possible?
    • yellowapple 4y ago
      > if Apple truly believes their lightning connector is better, what was the better play here? The better play would've been to open up the Lightning connector specification such that other vendors could standardize on it, and then all users of all phones would have been better off.
    • TheCoreh 4y ago
      I don't think Apple believes Lighting is superior. They were heavily involved in the design of USB-C, and that was _after_ Lightning was already in use. They certainly applied learnings from Lightning into it. I believe the most likely reason they stuck with it this long is contracts with accessory makers. After they switched from 30 pin, there were probably concerns from third parties that they would soon switch again, so to ensure everyone was on board with the transition they probably signed agreements to keep it for a while. Notice how it's been exactly 10 years since they launched Lightning and now we are getting rumors of next year's iPhone moving to USB-C, before this legislation comes into effect. Bluetooth Audio and wireless CarPlay are now commonplace, so this is no longer an issue going forward, but wired accessories were a big market in 2012.
• jupp0r 4y ago
  If this had passed earlier, we'd be stuck with micro USB for ever. I want USB-C instead of lightning as much as anyone on my phone but I wonder what this will mean for innovation in the future.
  • timbit42 4y ago
    Read the other comments for the answer.
• Decabytes 4y ago
  I wonder if Apple will just make them iPhones in 2024 portless and only chargeable via wireless to combat this
  • ajdude 4y ago
    I honestly hope they go this route, and as a side effect give us waterproof iPhones.
• roamerz 4y ago
  EU knows best. Just look how well making everyone click to accept cookies worked out. And “empower consumers to make more sustainable choices“. typical gov speak. If I was Apple I’d build in a lightning to usb-c adapter to the bottom and add a chin to the phone that resembled the older Pixels and engrave on it EU mandated.
  • rswail 4y ago
    The GDPR is an unalloyed good for consumer protection. The fact that stupid website designers and even stupider web marketers want to collect useless information to the point that they have to have complicated cookie acceptance banners is not the EU's fault. The GDPR forces system designers to actually work out how to deal with their customers saying "forget about me" and the regulations have the force of law and fines behind them. It makes it much easier as a designer to say "No you can't collect random information and make a profile of the customer that we can sell to unrelated companies, because otherwise we'll get a huge fine."
    • roamerz 4y ago
      It actually is the EU’s fault as before the law I didn’t need to click through anything. It’s a clear cause and affect. Also regardless of what websites say in the notices that I must click through I still manage privacy settings on my side through browser controls.
• bartread 4y ago
  To be honest I have pretty mixed feelings about this. The Lightning port is extremely robust, and I already have quite a few Lightning cables from several generations of iPhone, so to some extent this seems like it's just going to generate quite a bit of e-waste.
• plandis 4y ago
  Why is it so hard for Europeans to not buy an iPhone if they don’t like the charger type? This will slow any innovation in charging cables until enough powerful companies need something new. Small innovators are SOL since they won’t have the influence to get the EU to allow it.
  • IsNotNull 4y ago
    This will allow me to use my Apple iPad charger or my Apple MacBook charger to charge my Apple iPhone. Not being able to do that currently is not innovative, it's annoying.
• alfor 4y ago
  Think about how wonderful are the cookies laws! That really improved the web and the reduce tracking!
• sfaruque 4y ago
  Thinking out loud if Apple would resort to making 2 versions of their iPhones? And then exclusively selling the USB-C version in the EU, and everywhere else giving the customers a choice.
• zephrx1111 4y ago
  Scared mao, thought EU is regulating the size of my dick.
• jbotz 4y ago
  No matter what you think about regulating this kind of thing in general, in this case I think it's not a big deal and definitely a positive. No matter whether it's a lightning, usb c, or other kind of connector, these connectors break fairly often and thus should be easily swap-able modules by design in the first place. Manufacturers like Apple who think they have a better connector will be incentivized to make the connectors as modular as possible so that having different models for different markets will add little to the cost. Everybody wins.
• albertTJames 4y ago
  HN / libertarians: Laws are for fools. Reality: Laws are the only way to civilise mankind.
• TheYumasi 4y ago
  As an EU citizen, I am really happy with this decision. I am an iPhone user, but having an iPhone is not ubiquitous here, almost all of my friends/special other, use an Android phone with USB-C. Most of their laptops, Mac or not, use or allow USB-C for charging. This as been the case for a few years now, yet, if I go somewhere for more than a full day and forget my lighting cable, my phone will become a useless paperweight while every non-iPhone user is fine in the meantime because of the wide adoption of USB-C. It is also ironic how Apple markets heavily on how you can take great RAW photos or videos but somehow you have to use lightning USB2 speeds to transfer them. Lightning is barely smaller than USB-C, and clearly my iPhone thickness will not change if it switches to USB-C. As for the e-waste generated by "having to throw all of those lightning cables", how is it not e-waste that someone buying an iPhone will have yet another lightning cable that will only be used to charge it. If we want to really be more environmentally friendly, wouldn't it make more sense to have no cable at all with the devices we buy, force the sellers to clearly tell the consumers about it and offer the cable on the side only if needed? With that cable being usb-c, the consumer don't have to think about the cable type, for non-tech savvy people, that would be "the regular charging cable" and that's it. I would also add that all lightning cables won't suddenly go to the landfill in 2024. Many people will keep their iPhones/AirPods for a while after that date. Many would probably donate their old lightning cables to whoever needs them. In the meantime, we all already have an ever growing landfill in our homes called the cable drawer, and it is also an issue that needs to be addressed.
  • m00dy 4y ago
    As a Turk living in EU, I second the comment above.
  • blue_light_man 4y ago
    This is such a short sighted view. What just happened is, EU, a political organization enforcing the use of a technology on a company which operates on free market. It's Apples best interest to make technology that the consumers want so that they can sell more units of that. A political organization like EU has no say in this. EU citizens already make this decision for themselves by voting with money and choosing to buy/not buy an iPhone. Today is one of the dark days of EU. In short sight it's a victory. But in long sight it's a hinderence to progress by enforcing a technology on the market instead of letting the free market decide the technology.
• aaomidi 4y ago
  I thought this was done?
• slac 4y ago
  The regulation around adopting GSM as a standard for mobile networks was very positive for Europe. It can be good at times.
• bamboozled 4y ago
  I needed a new iPhone desperately as my old one was screwed. I was really disappointed to find the new iPhone lacking USB-C. So glad about this.
• blue_light_man 4y ago
  What next EU? New law to mandate using space over tabs? How do I send my suggestions?
• bvoq 4y ago
  But i want to keep my magsafe charger for macbooks. USB-C is not good for laptops in case you accidentally run into the cable.
• heavenlyblue 4y ago
  What is going to happen to devices like diving computers/Apple Watch Ultra that require a charger that is magnetic to ensure they are waterproof?
  • timbit42 4y ago
    This question is answered in other comments.
• AndroidKitKat 4y ago
  I read the law and perhaps I misunderstood it, but I'm curious if there is a grey area with regards to pogo pin like connectors, seen as the MagSafe connectors on Apple's MacBooks or the ones on the back of modern iPads / the ones on the side of my old Galaxy Nexus. Do those count as wired or wireless charging? To me, that's the only tricky part. My bet is that it would count as "wired" (and thus be illegal in the EU). My knee-jerk reaction to the law in general is "but why...", but after reading more and the comments in this thread, I think this is a major win.
• PeterStuer 4y ago
  Can Apple under these rules still ID the charger and refuse or downgrade the loading process if a 'non-genuine up-to-date model version' charger is failed to be detected?
• seydor 4y ago
• NDizzle 4y ago
  Way, way too much government. I don't understand why people are cheering for this. Why is a government body telling companies what kind of power adapter to use?!
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• bottlepalm 4y ago
  I’m worried about that little wafer in the usb-c port breaking.
• blue_light_man 4y ago
  So looks like EU knows USB-C is the best port for the citizens. Following the logic, EU should also know what the best charger, screen, CPU, GPU, drivers etc for the phone is since EU is represented by the people. Clearly, there should be also no reason why EU should not know what is the best way to source these items and manufacture it as well since EU is represented by the people. So why stop at the USB-C regulation? Why can't EU manufacturer the phone as well? How do I sign a petition for this?
• tuxone 4y ago
  Ok fine, now I can’t wait for the EU to ban USB-C crapphones that people keep buy and trash every second year.
• thom_ 4y ago
  • barrucadu 4y ago
    Sure, if Apple don't want to be part of the EU market they can just stop selling to the EU. Is that supposed to be some kind of "gotcha"? Are you saying the EU market needs Apple more than Apple needs the EU market?
    • thom_ 4y ago
  • IsNotNull 4y ago
    Apple already make iPads and Macbooks with USB-C and have done for years. They're already moving away from Lightning.
• salzig 4y ago
  Ok, I really like to have one connector for everything, and USB-C is quite dominant. But at least for me, USB-C feels way more sensitive/fragile compared to Lightning. While Plugging-in the USB-C Cable into my steam-deck i’m a bit afraid to break the port. Ramming in a Lightning Cable to any matching device doesn’t give me that feel. Besides the obvious benefit of a single connector, do you really think USB-C is a good connector for phones/portables?
• iLoveOncall 4y ago
  So Apple is going wireless charging only in 2024, did I get that right?
• frogpelt 4y ago
  Can Apple comply with this by simply including an adapter in the box?
• hcurtiss 4y ago
  Isn't the reason we're comfortable with mandating USB-C the fact that it's been implemented successfully in so many devices already? How's that supposed to work next time around? Will politicians or bureaucrats pick the next standard in a vacuum of real-world implementation/testing? I'm skeptical they'll do that well.
• rkagerer 4y ago
  ...its requirements will start to apply to new devices after 24 months I can't help but feel like USB-C may be superceded by something better by then.
• taylorlapeyre 4y ago
  What happens when USB-D comes out? Will legislation decide if the port is acceptable for consumers?
• unity1001 4y ago
  All these different types of connectors had little to do with innovation than they had to do with companies trying to force you to buy their own chargers and peripherals. Its a good thing that the Eu is forcing them to adopt a standard.
• JacobiX 4y ago
  Hope that they will extend this regulation to not just mobile phones, tablets and cameras but also to electric razors, hair care appliances, toothbrushes, home appliances, etc ... considering that many big EU corporations manufacture those products, maybe the likelihood is low ?
• jiveturkey 4y ago
  Why can't apple just include a lightning:usbc (m:f) dongle in the box?
• kreeben 4y ago
  This "Europe is morally superior to USA" vs "the USA is technically superior to Europe" dispute needs to stop. It's making this forum suck. Can't we do better?
• ianbooker 4y ago
  For the younger: EU regulation is the sole reason why most devices charge by USB nowadays. In the age before the smartphone, every company would ship their own charging bricks with fixed cables and connectors. I still have a drawer full of that stuff...
• datavirtue 4y ago
  Backward and weird.
• jedberg 4y ago
  What happens when a better standard comes around? Will we be stuck with USB-C for the foreseeable future until they EU changes their laws again? I am glad that Apple will finally come around, even if by force, but I worry how much this could stifle innovation.
• babypuncher 4y ago
  Where was this law 20 years ago when every device had a different proprietary connector?
• sylware 4y ago
  EU starts slowy to regulate tech. I am waiting for the web... critical sites working with noscript/basic (x)html browsers, and not requiring those grotesquely and massively complex and huge big tech browsers with their similar SDK. They did something for "whatsapp", but it seems it does not handle account creation.
• theshrike79 4y ago
  This will also affect Android manufacturers, the ones with the Super Special Speedy Charging, that only works on their specific charger. The law forces them to support the USB-PD standard, which they don't at the moment.
• ab_testing 4y ago
  Breaking News: iPhone 2023 gets rid of charging port
• wpdev_63 4y ago
  Is really that big of a deal that we have two types of connectors for cellphones sold today? Why does EU think it's so important to have USB-C on iphone that they must pass laws dictating apple's business strategy? It feels the EU is overreaching here, by alot. There are alot of other e-waste that's much worst than iphone cables and they serve as a solid competitor to the usb-c clusterf%^$ standards that's going on right now. Can't be passing consumer laws imo to make things slightly more convenient for the end user.
• klysm 4y ago
  The real problem is apple is big enough for this to be required in the first place.
• phendrenad2 4y ago
  USB-C is inferior to lightning in every way, except for compatibility (which very few people care about) and the environmental impact (which is tiny). The EU really fucked this up bad. Luckily, I suspect that Apple will continue selling their highest-end phones with the superior lightning connector as an option.
• guilhas 4y ago
  Lawl, 2024 Android phones adopt USB-D.5
• alberth 4y ago
  iPhone 16 (2025)? Am I understanding this correctly that the first required iPhone to be updated would be the iPhone 16 (2025), given that next years iPhone will most likely be released before this effective date.
• muaytimbo 4y ago
  I wonder what product decisions the EU will make for Apple next. Maybe Tim Cook should just hire them. Imagine that first conversation: [Apple Employee]: What other great product ideas do you have for Apple? [Legislator]: BRING BACK MY HEADPHONE JACK YOU FREE MARKET BULLY!
• ur-whale 4y ago
  Two large and despicable organizations fighting one another, what's not to like?
• nashashmi 4y ago
  So basically if tomorrow I create a USB-D spec, this law will prevent adoption? What a stupid law! Why did not they instead create a law that prohibits non-standard connectors license-only connectors? That also creates roadblocks to innovation (of proprietary stuff), sure! But it does not kill innovation outright.
  • nashashmi 4y ago
    I'm feeling sulked so strongly right now. California did something similarly stupid in 1990s. They mandated the selling of EVs. Car makers asked the courts to limit the law "in case no one wanted them." Then car makers tried to prove no one wanted EVs and then tried to convince everyone against buying the very EV they were making!
• adventured 4y ago
  HN: a corporation with a monopoly dictating standards is bad Also HN: government bureaucrats dictating standards in a monopolistic manner is good Also HN: choice good Also HN: the government must protect us from choice Yeah, sure. This is just psychotic nanny state behavior. Millions of Europeans cried out in unison: protect me from myself, I can't make decisions on my own, I'm not well enough informed to know what to do!
  • dzikimarian 4y ago
    > HN: a corporation with a monopoly dictating standards is bad Typically on HN it's "Corporation enforcing closed standards is bad. Unless it's Apple. They for sure do this for innovation". I've seen people saying that iMessage is closed for "security", where there are literally emails from Apple execs denying that. Now tons of people state that USB 2.0 molded into different plastic was vastly superior to USB-C.
• ramesh31 4y ago
  This is painfully stupid. Nothing could illustrate why Europe lags behind in technology better than this.
• cassepipe 4y ago
  A really good thing for the planet would be to force manufacturers to only produce repairable phones with purely open source components. Sure it's not good for business neither for innovation but who cares? The climate is a mess and we have produced enough phones already. You have a computer in your picket that take photo and you can communicate with anybody. What else could you possibly need in the future ? I'll tell you what, a climate that is not trying to kill you.
• emkoemko 4y ago
  does this mean Apple will finally have fast transfer speeds that Android phones have had for at least 5+ years? or will they still give you USB2 speeds over USB C?
• omegacharlie 4y ago
  What is preventing Apple (could be considered the subtle target of the legislation) from weaseling out and attempting compliance by using adapters for USB-C?
• 10g1k 4y ago
  How to make anything worse: add bureaucrats.
• dfee 4y ago
  The discussion is about EU forcing Apple to play ball. The discussion should be about how the EU just mandated a monopoly for the USB-IF. For Apple detractors, this is a hollow victory.
• endisneigh 4y ago
  I'm genuinely interested in what people would think if the EU mandated that all new code must be written in a particular programming language.
• harywilke 4y ago
  https://www.androidauthority.com/state-of-usb-c-870996/ https://www.androidauthority.com/state-of-usb-c-870996/ "Editor’s note: This is an updated version of an article published in 2018, 2019, and 2020." USB-C is a mess. It's not getting better over time. If i buy a cable, will it work? Usually, sometimes, maybe.
• adam_arthur 4y ago
  Amazing to witness all the Apple apologists coming out to defend the lightning cable, which is both technologically inferior to USB-C, and proprietary. Apple has reached sufficient scale where their anti-competitive practices can be hugely detrimental to society... we don't need regulation if they would opt into consumer friendly practices to begin with. Obviously any regulation needs to be implemented in such a way to avoid stifling innovation. Connectors have been pretty much standardized without the need for any regulation, barring Apple. Is there any logical justification for their design choice?
  • CharlesW 4y ago
    This isn't an "anti-competitive" thing. (1) Lightning was introduced a decade ago when USB-C was just a dream, and (2) Lightning works. > Connectors have been pretty much standardized without the need for any regulation, barring Apple. In reality, Apple took a leading role in USB-C adoption starting with 2015's MacBook Pro. Do you really think Apple wasn't going to adopt USB-C everywhere anyway? The cool thing is that this is an absolute P.R. coup for Apple. Apple now gets to go all-USB-C, and can redirect blame for the unimaginable amount of electronic waste that this will create to the EU.
    • adam_arthur 4y ago
      Apple could have easily adopted USB-C on the iphone, just as they did on many of their other devices years and years ago. The fact that they didn’t strongly implies they didn’t want to give up the revenue from their proprietary connector. Because there is no technical reason not to use it. Cables being sold for a dead protocol are the real waste. There is far less waste in the long run having all devices use the same connector. There’s not even an argument otherwise
  • phendrenad2 4y ago
    > technologically inferior to USB-C How so?
• palata 4y ago
  Would someone happen to know what that means for MFi/accessories? Hint: Apple themselves don't seem to be aware that USB-C does not have an MFi program.
• pagthem 4y ago
  This is good. Less fumbling around with wrong cables.
• e-clinton 4y ago
  When they first introduced this regulation 10 years ago, micro-usb was the standard. This is a bad idea for obvious reasons.
• fennecfoxy 4y ago
  Doesn't matter anyway, Apple's paid the fines and whatnot while delaying this move until they believe they're ready to go full wireless for charging/data transfer, etc. Maybe they'll stick C in a couple more devices, maybe one iPhone gen, but in all likelihood I'd say they're gonna go portless - something I wish other manufacturers had just done already, but Apple will tout it as a technologically advanced, "bold" move or something.
• bpmayer 4y ago
  Soon they will be irrelevant anyway.
• rs999gti 4y ago
  Apple has a few choices 1. Stop selling in the EU, but this is unlikely due to it being 20% of their market 2. Make a new model of iphone for the world with USBC 3. Add a premium to EU market phones to pay for the regulations I'd like to see 2 and 3 implemented with 3 making the iPhone cost 1.5x or more in the EU
  • LeanderK 4y ago
    nobody would buy such an expensive iPhone. I bet they will just switch to usb-c, like they did with the iPad.