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Xiaomi: New CPU matches Apple cores single threaded, much faster multithreaded
https://xcancel.com/lemire/status/2091894299289874926 https://xcancel.com/lemire/status/2091894299289874926
- einpoklum 2mo agoWill these CPUs be available anywhere other than on Xiaomi devices?
- jackb4040 2mo agohttps://xcancel.com/lemire/status/2091894299289874926 https://xcancel.com/lemire/status/2091894299289874926
- diabllicseagull 2mo agohttps://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/xcancel/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/xcancel/
- HelloUsername 2mo agoAnd on iOS? (Also I'd recommend https://libredirect.manerakai.com/ https://libredirect.manerakai.com/)
- freehorse 2mo agoit works on orion
- Overrun4468 2mo agoI can install Firefox (and Chrome) extensions with the Orion Browser. It‘s developed by Kagi https://orionbrowser.com/ https://orionbrowser.com/ I also installed uBlock Origin on Orion, which works quite well on iOS
- Barbing 2mo agoURL Redirects feature, thanks Jeff Johnson! https://apps.apple.com/us/app/stopthemadness-pro/id6471380298 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/stopthemadness-pro/id647138029...
- bee_rider 2mo agoThanks!
- fishfasell 2mo agoI can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- palmotea 2mo ago> I can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security. The motivation for such messages may be greedy, but it doesn't mean the facts aren't wrong: 1. As a practical matter, no one can audit systems so thoroughly to determine a system built by an adversary won't act adversarially. 2. Free market incentives work counter to national security all the time, in many ways (e.g. causing domestic capabilities to wither and die).
- cyanydeez 2mo agoOH, BUT we have fable! We have AI! of course we can answer these questions? can't we? which is true: America's AI is a super powerful defense against our enemies or America's AI is too stupid to defend against such a threat, and only sactions and import controls will suffice. Just seems like you're inventing things to be scared of.
- NoidFonsense 2mo agoit's a hardware problem, you run into engineering, materials, and physics issues. we're not talking about reverse engineering software
- cyanydeez 2mo agoyeah, haven't you heard AI is magic.
- paxys 2mo ago
- khalic 2mo agoLPDDR6... that's not enough for speedy inference
- rjzzleep 2mo agoMaybe,but memory bandwidth is much better than on the DGX Spark at least.
- khalic 2mo agoI hate this RAMpocalypse so much
- fauigerzigerk 2mo agoOn the other hand, this year's RAMpocalypse could be 2028's RAMbundance ;P
- khalic 2mo agoRAMvana was right there!!
- kcb 2mo agoNo. its has a 96 bit bus.
- simlevesque 2mo agoNot every computing platform is expected to do fast inference.
- CharlesW 2mo agoIt depends on the number of channels. The Xring O3 appears to have 4×24-bit channels, so 113.8 GB/s. The iPhone 17 Pro's memory bandwidth is ~76.8 GB/s. Seems fine?
- rpdillon 2mo agoIf I recall correctly, Strix Halo gets about 450G/s. The M series processors get between 400 and 800G/s, and an actual NVIDIA card is like 5.5T/s. 113G/s is pretty slow for inference.
- otterley 2mo agoI'm curious as to the performance per watt. There's no such thing as a free lunch.
- diabllicseagull 2mo agono free lunch for a given process node I guess. It's using TSMC’s 3nm N3P.
- nerdsniper 2mo agoM5 (iPad) AnTuTu: 3.5 million XRing O3 AnTuTu: 5.5 million --- M5 iPad Geekbench Single-Core: 3,556 M5 Max Geekbench Single-Core: 4,300 XRing O3 Geekbench Single-Core: 3,945 --- M5 iPad Geekbench Multi-Core: 15,285 M5 Max Geekbench Multi-Core: 29,200 XRing O3 Geekbench Multi-Core: 15,221
- throwa356262 2mo agoI dont think Geekbench is a good cross-platform benchmark, given what it measures
- nerdsniper 2mo agoI don’t either, but these are the only benchmarks Xiaomi provided!
- simjnd 2mo agoGeekerwan has an excellent video [1] where they run the new Spec 2026 benchmark on the development board they received. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCCJuOopLK8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCCJuOopLK8
- TiredOfLife 2mo agoGeekbench is the only consumer usable cross-platform benchmark. It matches SPEC differences between platforms
- throwa356262 2mo agoDoes it test hardware, or hardware plus software that can be different on different platforms?
- wtallis 2mo agoWhat degree of OS-indepedence do you think is reasonable to expect from a consumer-facing benchmark suite like Geekbench?
- brcmthrowaway 2mo agoInsane if true. Does Xiaomi sell laptops?
- thefourthchime 2mo agoThis smells somewhat legitimate and somewhat BS. The architecture itself looks impressive — TSMC 3nm, a 4+ GHz prime core, tons of cache, and a very wide execution engine. And the claimed Geekbench numbers — around *3,945 single-core and 15,221 multi-core* — are especially impressive, if not a little suspicious. But it’s sorta like, let’s throw everything against the wall and get the biggest number we can. Do they show sustained performance over ten minutes? What’s the power draw when it’s doing 15K? What happens when you put it in an actual phone? This was done in a cold room. It seems more like a proof of concept for what they could do than something that could actually ship in a phone and sustain those numbers.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- cogman10 2mo agoWere I to guess > The biggest cores on the the Xring O3 are the C1-Ultra. C1-Ultra really powerful cores. They support SME2 (Scalable Matrix Extension 2) for matrix/AI acceleration, SVE2 for data parallelism (SIMD). This is where the magic is happening (I believe). They have these ultra cores with additional extensions which they are pinning the benchmarks to. Realistically, that sort of thing isn't useful as non-homogeneous architectures really suck for an application or OS to deal with.
- brigade 2mo agoAll 10 cores support the same extensions. It’s silly to implement an SoC any other way, and it’s been a decade since someone has last made that mistake.
- wtallis 2mo agoIt's been a long time since anyone tried to actually ship a chip with different instruction set support enabled across its cores, but Intel has spent the past several years shipping consumer parts where they had to disable some features (AVX-512) on their P-cores to bring them down to the level of what their E-cores support, because they didn't plan ahead for doing a heterogeneous chip with those two microarchitectures. Toggling off some instructions in microcode for some cores is quite different from having two microarchitectures that are each designed to implement the same instruction set but with different performance and power characteristics.
- bip-bop-robot 2mo agoRIP Mediatek, RIP Qualcomm
- ajaimk 2mo agoApple's *Last Year* CPUs. We're literally about to get a new chip in 2-3 weeks from them.
- juiceland 2mo agoThe real concern is supply chains. The US can design but not manufacture, whereas it appears China can do both.
- celsoazevedo 2mo ago> whereas it appears China can do both Not these. They seem to be using ARM-designed cores that others already use and TSMC fabs in Taiwan.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- strictnein 2mo agoIn this case, a Chinese company is using a Taiwanese manufacturer (TSMC), so they're not doing both.
- fg137 2mo agoStill better than what Qualcomm is offering?
- otterley 2mo agoI'm not sure that it matters. You can't put a Qualcomm chip in an iPhone and you can't put Apple Silicon in any other device. So there's no really straightforward way to compare them other than specs on paper, which we all know are theoretical until they get integrated.
- fg137 2mo agoWhy "better than Qualcomm" doesn't matter? You don't have to compare everything with Apple products.
- jeffbee 2mo agoIs raw perf considered Apple's moat? I think it's their software. I would buy a MacOS laptop even if the performance is ghastly ... in fact, I did: the MacBook Neo.
- Thomashuet 2mo agoYes it is. I've bought a MacBook air despite despising MacOS (with the hope that Asahi support will come eventually) because the processor currently has no competition.
- jeffbee 2mo agoThat's sort of weird though because unless the operating system supports your applications, the performance of the processor cannot be appreciated.
- kccqzy 2mo agoMy applications are generally open-source and volunteers have already compiled them to any and all operating systems whose tool chain is available.
- mceachen 2mo agoThe general workload performance (browsing, text editing) is comparable for neo and m* MacBooks afaict. Ghastly was macOS on an Intel MacBook Air.
- jeffbee 2mo agoWhy would we compare it to an 8-year-old design? For browsing, the current MBP smokes the MBN, by margins of roughly one-third. It is a significant and noticeable regression. For sustained workloads like software development or even running the MacOS updates, it is a huge and glaring regression. But it's still good kit.
- turblety 2mo agoI don't like Apple as a company or how they act around locking people out of the devices they buy. I'm willing to pay double the cost of a MacBook Pro for anything that can run Linux, similar performance to M5, have a decent battery, good touchpad, be silent, have a good display, be light and portable. It doesn't exist. MacBook's simply have the best hardware, but terrible software/philosophy of software. So I'd say their moat is hardware in general. Performance, yes to an extent, but it's performance vs heat vs energy vs battery life and all their peripherals.
- pmkary 2mo agoSad thing is that it'll still be running the damn Android and so JVM not C or Swift on the machine.
- fg137 2mo agoWhat's the point of the complaint? Is there anything better that is commercially viable? Your Linux based dream phone is not going to sell more than 10 units.
- otterley 2mo agoI think they might be saying that there's still no supported way to build a native-code app on the Android OS. It could be construed as a plea to make that happen in order to unlock greater performance, not necessarily a desire to have a DIY Linux-based OS option.
- spogbiper 2mo agoThere's NDK which seems supported. It's been some years since I messed with mobile stuff but https://developer.android.com/ndk https://developer.android.com/ndk
- MobiusHorizons 2mo agoI believe the comparison is with iOS not Linux. Android is Linux after all. It’s just that most programs don’t get to run a that level of abstraction, and instead run on top of a jvm. At least in iOS the code does seem to be able to be more efficient due to to higher usage of natively compiled code, which is what I think the op was complaining about.
- ZenDroid 2mo agoThere's no JVM in Android. Most important parts of an Android app are compiled ahead of time into CPU machine code, rarely used parts are compiled into machine code in runtime using JIT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Runtime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Runtime
- ksec 2mo agoThis is still an ARM C1-Ultra. Same one used in Mediatek dimensity 9500, which also got more than 4000 points in GB6 lab test. But actual results inside phone with smartphone cooling and wattage requirement became close to 3300. But perhaps the most important thing, Xiaomi is now able to make chip similar to Mediatek. They are the third largest Smartphone manufacturer by shipment volume. And they are still growing. This is bad news for Mediatek and Qualcomm.
- pelagicAustral 2mo ago> This is bad news for Mediatek and Qualcomm. And good news for everyone else.
- yoz-y 2mo agoYes and no. Having more competition in the space is excellent news. However I am sad that the world interdependence is eroding as most other countries seem to sit on their hands and happily outsource every bit of manufacturing to a single country.
- cromka 2mo agoExcept this trend is actually reversing now, with fabs being built outside of Taiwan?
- celsoazevedo 2mo agoNice. Let's see if they perform well in the real world.
- hn_submit 2mo agoYeah but they can't use TSMC to make it so they'll have to make due with older or more expensive lithography processes. That probably explains why there's so few of these CPUs around: the yields of the domestic Chinese lithography processes (non-EUV) are awful.
- trynumber9 2mo agoXiaomi has not been sanctioned like Huawei. So it is made by TSMC on N3P. The Huawei chips, made by SMIC, are so far behind they're not competitive at all with even Xiaomi's first generation chip.
- throwa356262 2mo agoAfter this news they might suddenly be.
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- hn_submit 2mo agoThe U.S. is already making moves to completely halt the export of ASML machines to China, including non-EUV ones. Every semiconductor China produces could be used in weapons and that's agains U.S. law.
- spacedcowboy 2mo agoLast I knew, ASML was a Dutch company with a Veldhoven HQ. With the amount of shit that Trump's been pulling in Europe, The EU might be more willing to side with China and ban exports to the US.
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- hn_submit 2mo ago
- dfedbeef 2mo agoYay free markets China makes a fast chip Yay national security
- trvz 2mo ago"matches" could've also been written as "this year's product falls short of the competitor's last year one". And multithreaded is 10 cores vs 6 cores. I appreciate Apple being kept on their feet, but they're not dethroned yet.
- robotpepi 2mo agothat's precisely what the post says under the title.
- dgellow 2mo agoCrazy how long Apple has been able to keep their lead, there is so much money trying to catch up
- beacon294 2mo agoI won't belittle their hard work, but there's a qualifier here that they're bidding the most for the foundry time, or else nvidia would have the fastest chips.
- gok 2mo ago"Arm-designed CPU core matches Apple-designed CPU core from a year ago"
- throwaw12 2mo agoI love this, really, competition on a global scale is good for us, bad for greedy US corporations. For example, I consider Meta as bigger threat to society, than Xiaomi, DeepSeek, z.ai and other top Chinese companies (haven't used Chinese social media, so can't comment about its content)
- ford 2mo agoDo you still believe this considering those companies live and die by the CCP? Would you feel differently if scale was reversed and Meta was the upstart trying to compete with Xiaomi/etc? I'm right there with you questioning Meta's value for society, but I do believe it has less opportunity for abuse/manipulation
- throwaw12 2mo ago> those companies live and die by the CCP I don't care about internal politics of a state, as long as they are not killing people deliberately on a daily basis or invading other countries and killing their people. How government is structured is up to Chinese people to decide > Would you feel differently if scale was reversed and Meta was the upstart trying to compete with Xiaomi/etc? It's not only about scale and upstart, it's also about how much are they harming society.
- reliabilityguy 2mo ago> I don't care about internal politics of a state, as long as they are not killing people deliberately What about forced cultural assimilation and re-education camps? Or, as long as it’s confined to the borders of a country doing so, it is fine? > How government is structured is up to Chinese people to decide Funny take given the events of 1989
- aaroninsf 2mo agoIt would be quite a demonstration of supremacy for any Chinese firm to to equal or exceed the damage done (and ongoing) to western society by meta.
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- lowbloodsugar 2mo ago[flagged]
- strictnein 2mo agoMissing the most important metric: processing power per watt. I have some server CPUs laying around that can also beat Apple CPUs. But putting them in a compact, densely packed, sealed box (aka a phone) would result in a fireball and almost no battery life.
- cyp0633 2mo agosome chinese youtubers have posted their test results, seems pretty good, but the devices have been provided to them in advance fwiw
- StilesCrisis 2mo agoI'm sure it benchmarks well, but does it actually have good battery life?
- frollogaston 2mo agoEven aside from battery life, high TDP means thermal throttling under sustained load. Which most of these benchmarks don't really test, or if they did, the ambient temperature affects the results.
- sorz 2mo agoThey do test continuous (1-hour) gaming performance in controlled environment regularly. Thermal throttling can be easily spotted on the frame rate vs time graph.
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- well_ackshually 2mo ago[flagged]
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- waazy 2mo ago44mb of cache really highlights the bottleneck of how raw compute is cheap, but the real limit is memory latency.
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- comboy 2mo agoThis is nothing. China is about to start doing their own 5nm. When they roll out their own silicon at scale, I don't think there's catching up, nobody can match their manufacturing capabilities. Not even close.
- culi 2mo agoThey are already doing 5nm with multi-patterning DUV. But that's not the same as EUV machines. It is not nearly the same scale of production (with yields as low as 20%). They are still a few years away from indigenous EUV. Though I have to admit the shenzhen breakthrough was pretty impressive
- rshm 2mo agoIs DUV inherently 5nm a 20% yield class or it's matter of process improvement that China is struggling compared to taiwan or Intel ?
- culi 2mo agoFor multi-patterning DUV, each patterning/etching step accumulates defect risk. Actually now that I'm reading about it, 20% is the better end of the spectrum. I don't think technology could possibly improve it much beyond that. I believe the theoretical maximum yield for multi-patterning DUV at 5nm and 7nm is 30-40% It's not economically sustainable/viable long term. China is only doing it because they've been forced to by the trade war Trump started against them in his first term (Biden didn't really back down either and now Trump 2 tried to ramp it up even higher). China is okay with such low yields because its supposed to be a temporary solution until they achieve domestic EUV tech.
- amluto 2mo agoSurely yield is very much a function of the size of the device in question and its tolerance for defects. I don’t think it makes sense for a technology to have a theoretical maximum yield that’s a constant number unless it somehow destroys entire wafers with highish probability.
- ur-whale 2mo ago2020's US geopolitical doctrine: 1) Pick a historically extremely innovative and disciplined culture which also happens to have massive human capital 2) Please arbitrary artificial ill-thought-out economic constraints on them 3) wait a while 4) get a bunch of magnificent spanking in return (AI, chips, etc...)
- cromka 2mo agoThis worked just as well in the 1980s when they wanted to protect their auto industry...
- Alien1Being 2mo agoXiaomi also make amazing cars. "WSJ I Test Drove a Chinese EV. Now I Don't Want to Buy American Cars Anymore. https://www.wsj.com/tech/personal-tech/chinese-ev-test-drive-xiaomi-su7-c3e59282 https://www.wsj.com/tech/personal-tech/chinese-ev-test-drive... "
- warkdarrior 2mo agoThat journalist may not want to buy American cars, but thanks to our enlightened government, they must buy American cars, since everything else is taxed significantly or banned altogether. Free market for all! /s
- testing22321 2mo agoThe CEO of Ford directly said if Chinese EVs are allowed into the US it will be the end of US auto manufacturing. They know they are inferior, and choose not to compete, just lobby for more regulations to keep competitors out. Free market, haha.
- dirck-norman 2mo agoChina is nowhere near “free market”. Their EV sector received more government subsidies in the last 15 years than the entire U.S. automobile market since inception. The total subsidies make up half of the market cap of their entire EV industry. 250 billion in EV subsidies from China. 10 billion by the U.S.
- testing22321 2mo agoYou’re forgetting the 9.3$ billion given to us automakers to bail them out that was never recovered.
- oblio 2mo agoThe US auto industry is also subsidized by all aspects of American life requiring a car outside of NYC and a few big cities.
- yaro330 2mo agoHow is this news worthy? The cores are off the shelf C1-Ultra. Even Google got them in the new pixel.
- cute_boi 2mo agoUS Government - China is a security risk & they will steal our data. We should ban xiaomi for national security risk. We found the phone collecting telemetry..... just like google and apple.
- StrLght 2mo agoWould be nice to see some independent numbers and benchmarks. Apparently, Xiaomi announced this SoC today, so there's no 3rd party data about it.
- AM1010101 2mo agoInteresting how quickly they seem to have caught up.
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- romanovcode 2mo agoGood. Competition is great for consumers.
- brcmthrowaway 2mo agoIf China has technological superiority to the US in every facet of science and engineering, is that really good for us though?
- wds 2mo agoNot good for us if it gets banned domestically because the US can't compete in a free market.
- wolvesechoes 2mo agoFree market was a tool, yet for you it is a venerated idol.
- palmotea 2mo ago> If China has technological superiority to the US in every facet of science and engineering, is that really good for us though? I'm too stupid or too mad a Trump to care.
- romanovcode 2mo agoWho is "us"?
- brcmthrowaway 2mo agoUS consumer
- romanovcode 2mo agoYeah I am not from US so this does not concern me.
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- tambourine_man 2mo ago“…of course, Apple may soon announce their next processor” I’m pretty sure they will, as they have, like clockwork, in the same month, for over a decade.
- Schiendelman 2mo agoAnd reportedly early next year they have another coming out of band.
- smith7018 2mo agoSpecifically, the M7 is supposedly coming out in the Spring. The M6 band is going to be so small because the M7 will have a lot of AI-focused upgrades and Apple doesn't want to waste manufacturing on M6 Pro/Max/Ultra chips when they can start building the M7 sooner.
- nazgulsenpai 2mo agoI think it's great that the Chinese are catching up and can compete directly with the incumbents. The GPU space I find really exciting with several new IPs out there that aren't quite ready for primetime, but still fascinating. Also, here's to hoping we get some relatively competitive Chinese DRAM flooding the consumer market someday soon.
- LPisGood 2mo agoSuspiciously ignored is power consumption. That’s the biggest and most useful metric often ignored because it’s less flashy than speed.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- subscribed 2mo agoI'm also interested in the security features of this new CPU. Where doesn't it sit compared to Apple and ARM (Qualcomm, Titan)? Modern processor without memory tagging for example is a little..... dated, given how much the new AIs accelerated the vulnerability discovery in all the apps and system components.
- LPisGood 2mo agoI have heard it said that security is the new power when it comes to microarchitecture. I feel like that’s something security enjoyers tell themselves to be happy.
- subscribed 2mo agoI don't understand your comment - did you want to say that hardware security is overrated or that security and microarchitecture don't mix? Or maybe that security doesn't have a practical application?
- lukan 2mo agoOr maybe just a joke, that most of the world does not care so much about security, unlike security minded people would like to?
- MBCook 2mo agoGood question. I’m sure Apple’s chips could do better in single core if they were willing to push the power envelope way higher too. Multi-core is easy to beat, just add more cores until you win. There were already chips that beat the M series just by having way more threads/cores.
- Lagoon3384_SWE 2mo agoThis site is just crazy pro-china now. Guess that happens when non-westerners dominate online, sadly.
- himata4113 2mo agoHave you considered that china has been working on these things for the past decade and they're finally getting results out of that? And yes, it is known that they do steal tech as samsung discovered in their tech preview phone bust in korea.
- gameman144 2mo agoI don't see any editorializing, mostly just reports that China is actually competing well. Whether you're for or against China, seeing that they're outperforming or performing close to American-owned chipmakers seems like very relevant information.
- lbrito 2mo agoThat's a profoundly strange take. I've never in my life seen a more anti-China technology forum than HN. Whatever the headline is, say "CO2 levels have been falling for 21 months", if it has "China" in it, it will be ignored. If it has "US", it will make the front page for days. Try Algolia and see for yourself.
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- bee_rider 2mo agoApple is the least interesting company to compare against. They are in their own MacOS/iOS software ecosystem, which you want if you want and you don’t if you don’t. Not to be dismissive of either side of that, there are legit reasons to stay in or out of Apple’s ecosystem. But benchmarking points is not a reason anyone would switch operating systems, right? What OS will these chips run and what is the competition on that platform? He makes a lot of comparisons to AMD and Intel in the post, why not benchmark against them?
- MBCook 2mo agoThey are the kind of single core right now, so they’re the most interesting comparison. Do you want to compare to Intel/AMD? If these are destined for phones that’s not a useful comparison by your metric.
- mschuetz 2mo agoNot at all. I specifically bought a MacBook Air M4, first Mac product in my life, for its fantastic performance in a passively cooled notebook. I have zero loyalty to Apple and usually use Windows. If someone else starts beating them perf wise, I'll happily switch again.
- mrheosuper 2mo agoThe air m4 is really the best sub-thousand-dollar laptop.
- apt-apt-apt-apt 2mo agoI was surprised when I bought my 'cheap, crappy' 2024 M3 Air ($1.3K) and it ran circles around my top-of-line last Intel MBP ($4.6K).
- jorvi 2mo agoLinus specifically always buys Apple laptops to run Linux on because they're just that good. Even despite all the paper cuts.
- 48484848 2mo ago[flagged]
- bar000n 2mo agoXiaomi still need to improve their UX and also match the UI to western culture, in spite of now being a global "tech giant" they still want to convince everyone else to be Chinese?
- malkosta 2mo agoGreat, now they can put much more Ads in my notes app...
- gigatexal 2mo agogood. competition is good. we, the consumers, win. the a20pro and what not will match or beat it and the cycle will continue. if this chip turns into a decent desktop chip then arm linux laptops might be very nice.
- dmitrygr 2mo agoNo mention I can see of power consumption multiple compared to apple's chips at matching perf. My guess is 2x-5x
- calf 2mo agoIf Moore's law is truly ending as is generally believed, then it seems logically inevitable that the entire industry will flatten out and equalize. Or, I am oversimplifying something.
- trynumber9 2mo agoIn this case it's more that multiple companies (Apple, Qualcomm, MediaTek and now Xiaomi) have used the same process (N3P) to produce multiple chips with similar performance. Regardless of Moore's Law death that isn't surprising.
- calf 2mo agoThat's just punting the meta which is why are companies converging on similar processes? Plausible explanation being that Moore's law exponential is going away.
- mrheosuper 2mo agoIt's already flattening out. The rate of progress is much faster in 90-00s then now.
- alok-g 2mo agoMoore's law is flattening, however, designs and implementations are often highly inefficient. Just like software often has bloat, so does chip design.
- aaroninsf 2mo agoThank you OP for using xcancel.
- Preston67 2mo agoI think describing what's happening "other countries seem to sit on their hands and happily outsource every bit of manufacturing to a single country" is disingenuous. It's been dubbed China Shock 2.0 and it's being taken very seriously by the EU. The US admin is a joke and too busy shooting itself in both feet to have coherent policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Shock_2.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Shock_2.0
- simjnd 2mo agoThe GPU performance is insane too, approaches M5 results at ~20W. Of course it will be in Android phones so it will be throttle hard past 4W and will have terrible drivers. I wish phones moved to HPB packaging and active cooling so we could have sustained 10W and use them as light workstations.
- snowram 2mo agoThat exist, kinda. Android gaming handhelds have mobile SoC and also active cooling. See Ayn and Retroid devices. Their (almost) throttle free is a very nice experience.
- simjnd 2mo agoYeah I have an Ayn Thor with a Snapdragon 8 Gen 2, it's great being able to play fairly demanding Windows games on this tiny device. It's still PoP with the RAM stacked on top in a plastic casing so you need a pretty big fan to cool it since you have to go through insulating plastic, then the RAM to get to the CPU. With a HPB packaging you can cool the CPU directly and could theoretically get the same amount of cooling power with a much smaller fan that could be integrated into a thing smartphone (à la RedMagic).
- lostmsu 2mo agoXiaomi smartphones were extremely well made at least a few years ago. Even the core software was impressive vs Google for example (try echo cancellation on any of your non-Xiaomi devices). Its only real problem is ads.
- simjnd 2mo agoYeah it wasn't a dig a Xiaomi specifically. All Android devices have broken Vulkan drivers. We have to rely on alternative open-source drivers (e.g. Turnip for Snapdragon) for real compatibility and performance.
- jayd16 2mo agoJust get a laptop?
- formvoltron 2mo agoIs AI helping to improve chip design?
- ilyassanida 2mo agocan't wait to see Xiaomi enter the GPUs market and beats Nvidia
- ChrisGreenHeur 2mo agothis is an arm mali gpu?
- maxglute 2mo agoPRC going to get have surplus of semi talent and equipment in a few years that food delivery companies Meituan probably going to starting making chips like they do LLMs. Only 60% joking.
- ErrorNoBrain 2mo agook but power consumption??
- kikimora 2mo agoIt is the same Xiaomi which announced 300 000 SU7 vehicles sold in a day and 6 months later reported they are struggling to hit their sales targets? Just don’t believe anything a Chinese company say, divide it by at least 2. I have nothing against China, this is a cultural thing which you should be aware reading anything coming from the country.
- amelius 2mo agoYeah, well, I'm still waiting for 1 Apple Car ...
- Almondsetat 2mo agoWhy are you waiting for something that was never announced?
- amelius 2mo agoYou never heard of project Titan? It even has a wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_car_project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_car_project "around 5,000 employees were reported to be working on the project as of 2018."
- Almondsetat 2mo agoWas it announced?
- amelius 2mo agoWhat difference does that make. It's the end result that counts.
- Dylan16807 2mo agoThis is a discussion of whether company announcements are true or not in various circumstances. It makes all the difference.
- bizstrategy10 2mo agoI think constraint creates the best innovation, the US is shooting itself in the foot by forcing China to innovate.
- cherioo 2mo agoGeekerwan's review is up, with caveat that this is the prototype board, not even packaged into a phone yet, but still shows some amazing results in spec 2026, 3dmark (gpu), perf-per-watt for single core and multi-core https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCCJuOopLK8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCCJuOopLK8 (you can turn on YouTube auto-dub)
- ezekiel68 2mo ago"Let's isolate China's semiconductor industry," they said. "This will all turn out well," they said.
- trynumber9 2mo agoThere is a nuance: Xiaomi is not Huawei. They were not sanctioned. This chip is made in Taiwan like all the non-Samsung competition.
- ezekiel68 2mo agoArgh -- perfectly read. I was thinking of Huawei.
- russli1993 2mo agoHuawei is launching a mobile soc built with logic folding. They take a single logic ip, like a cpu, and spread it's components across to dies and use hybrid bonding to combine top to bottom. For example the CPU SRAM on top and logic gates directly below. This reduces critical path, increases fmax, reduces power consumption. They claim this method allow them build faster, more power efficient, more function units with duv process than traditional duv. Will be interesting to benchmark after launch later this year
- kjeldsendk 2mo agoAs usual with claims from China based companies. It's pure lies until we have an independent test with free access. Two rather rare words in China
- angry_octet 2mo agoAnyone can make a fast CPU, but is it also a safe and secure CPU? Or does it have architectural defects as a consequence of the race to be fast? See eg LoongLeak and the Loongson processor: https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity26/presentation/hetterich-lorenz-2 https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity26/presentat...
- Alpha3031 2mo agoXiaomi are implementing ARM cores on an ARM ISA so any architectural defects would also affect other ARM processors.
- angry_octet 2mo agoThere are side channels available, they have licenced IP blocks, not a whole CPU. All that logic for the cache and interconnect.
- micromacrofoot 2mo agoGood, get this qualcomm garbage out of here
- tpurves 2mo agoWhere is this being fabbed TSMC? How advanced a process node CPU maker has access to is usually all you need to predict relative performance. (as long as you take similar assumptions in die size, advanced packaging and power envelope).
- ChuckMcM 2mo agoIt is pretty amazing the creativity with compute architecture which is afforded by a zillion transistors.
- pranav_tech26 2mo ago[flagged]
- sinuhe69 2mo agoI would find the news much more interesting if they put the new processor in a laptop with 48 GB DDR5 unified memory or more! Right now, M5 with its neural execution engines and unified memory architecture present a unique local AI computing platform.
- nomendos 2mo agoNew CPU is 100% ARM design and nothing by Xiaomi other than "Chinese menu" configuration (i.e. how many blocks of this or that type,..). Apple CPU is a full custom design that just complies with ARM. Xiaomi Xring O3 CPU is designed by ARM and Xiaomi (as well as Mediatek) did not do any CPU design, other than custom bus interconnects, physical implementation on TSMC 3nm, an in-house NPU, and adopting next-generation LPDDR6 memory support.
- yanhangyhy 2mo agoyeap, it's xiaomi's thing. it dont have the ability.
- mrheosuper 2mo agoEveryone has to start somewhere, they achieve better performance than Tensor CPU on Pixel, to me that's an achievement.
- dcrazy 2mo agoThere’s a big gap between spec’ing an SoC by configuration code, and designing one from the ground up. That difference amounts to who, if anyone, gets the credit for being competitive with Apple.
- rf15 2mo agoI wonder just how different their processes really are, considering both can be safely described as "full custom design". I write this especially in the context of apple always being about The Look, so they might also describe their design process in a more optimistical light in advertisement material. An insider take would be helpful.
- reliabilityguy 2mo ago> I wonder just how different their processes really are Night and day. Apples has in-house silicon dev groups starting (at least) 2008 w/ acquisition of PA semi for their low power CPUs, followed by the acquisition of Anobit in 2012(?). Apple does their own architecture, microarchitecture, etc, full cycle development. Apple licenses ISA, not designs.
- i23942ok 2mo ago[dead]
- Melatonic 2mo agoCan we get a powerful arm CPU yet that is geared purely toward performance and just slap an AIO or water cooler on it ? Don't understand why this doesn't exist
- Ouman 2mo agoExecution units are cheap if you can't keep them fed, so the huge cache seems like the other half of the story
- bestmark 2mo ago[dead]
- picture 2mo agoHere is an excellent video showing silicon die analysis and comprehensive performance-power curves compared against other leading products. Please skim through it and skip the speculating. https://youtu.be/BCCJuOopLK8 https://youtu.be/BCCJuOopLK8 Edit: There are also memory latency charts
- rawoke083600 2mo agoMy last three phones has been XIAOMis. I absolutely love them for the their price-performance value, and honestly their Android version MI (build/skin ?) is my favorite android version.
- seunosewa 2mo agoFrom the benchmarks, the single core performance is close but lower.
- ozereray1 2mo agoCompetition in the ARM space is exactly what the industry needs right now. If Xiaomi can actually sustain that multithreaded performance without thermal throttling, it changes the hardware landscape significantly.
- cold_boot 2mo ago[dead]
- honestlyranked 2mo agoThis is the only advantage Apple had on its rivals.
- flyingshelf 2mo agoYou forgot the /s
- jackskip22 2mo agoYou will be vibecoding using MiMo on your Xiaomi android phone with the Xiaomi Token Plan and everything. I guarantee you.
- jingpostmedia 2mo ago[flagged]
- BrucecarlL 2mo agoXiaomi did a great job. This area need new player which is good to consumers
- xutopia 2mo agoThe benchmark done in a lab is different than one done on a production phone. In a lab you can cool the room or even drop the CPU inside cold oil. Run the benchmark there and it means you have a good freezer. I'd love to see what it looks like inside a production phone. I really hope for this to be true because we need more competition on the CPU front.
- bArray 2mo ago> This smells somewhat legitimate and somewhat BS. The architecture itself looks impressive — TSMC 3nm, a 4+ GHz prime core, tons of cache, and a very wide execution engine. And the claimed Geekbench numbers, around 3,945 single-core and 15,221 multi-cor, are especially impressive, if not a little suspicious. I was under the impression that there was still a trade export from TSMC to China [1]? Not to mention a near complete ban on ASML devices [2]? Maybe they exfiltrated a few chips into a lab, but can they really source production quantities? > But it’s sorta like, let’s throw everything against the wall and get the biggest number we can. Do they show sustained performance over ten minutes? What’s the power draw when it’s doing 15K? What happens when you put it in an actual phone? People using the same C1-Ultra core are struggling to get the same performance in applications where heat and power are important. It would be surprising if this is sustainable and not just a temporary boost. > The Xring O3 will debut in the Xiaomi 18 Fold, the world's first foldable to use it, and the Xiaomi Pad 9 Pro Max, both launching in China in September 2026. Xiaomi also unveiled the Xring O100 AI chip and the Xring D100 smart-driving chip, the latter built to run models with up to 200 billion parameters locally, with commercial use planned for 2027. Reuters reports TSMC is producing the chips. I guess we will find out very soon when Chinese customers get their devices. I don't know how they will even source enough LPDDR6 at reasonable prices. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/creve4x8drgo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/creve4x8drgo [2] https://www.trendforce.com/news/2026/08/25/news-u-s-may-push-near-total-asml-china-ban-on-duv-sales-and-servicing-amid-chinas-domestic-lithography-push/ https://www.trendforce.com/news/2026/08/25/news-u-s-may-push...
- throwaway2037 2mo agoThe opening paragraph: > Xiaomi is the Chinese tech giant. Their phones compete with iPhones. To the first: I say, "Hmm... maaaaybe. More like they are a large consumer goods company. Many of their goods are very low value." No one doing professional stock analysis on Wall Street would put Xiaomi in the same category as Huawei (which has a frighteningly large and effective R&D division for telco/networking kit). To the second: I summon my inner Aussie: "Yeah, nah." I think only peak Google Pixel or Samsung Galaxy phones are the only two that can possibly challenge iPhones. The rest are poseurs.
- Synaesthesia 2mo agoXiaomi and other Chinese manufacturers are ahead of Samsung, Apple etc. They have superior cameras, battery technology and the best, latest SOC's.
- bitcharmer 2mo ago[dead]
- noahhhh 2mo agoIt's crazy how quickly this thread became a political discussion. No one is talking about tech details.