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Queen Elizabeth II has died
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dym_sh 4y ago
- yreg 4y agoWhen she was born there were less than 2 billion people on Earth. Now there are almost 8 billion of us.
- weavie 4y agoShe started with Winston Churchill and ended with Liz Truss.
- evgen 4y ago
- hydrogen7800 4y agoAnd something like 90% of the world population was born during her reign.
- 6d6b73 4y agoYou make it sound like 90% of people were under her reign while in fact 90% were thankfuly not her subjects
- glitchcrab 4y agoNo, that's not how it reads at all. It clearly implies that they were born during the period in which she reigned.
- patrec 4y agoNope, more like 98% of the world population.
- viridian 4y agoThe crazy thing is that we not ever see 10 billion at this rate. Globally we are down to 2.1 births per woman, and the majority of nations now have a birth rate below 2, meaning most countries are below replacement. And even the positive birth rate countries are rapidly trending downwards (with the exceptions of Uzbekistan, Kahzakstan, and Iran). It will be very interesting to see how the population J curve flatlining affects global society. We live in interesting times.
- viridian 4y agoFollow up: I was curious about the math, so I thought others might find these numbers interesting as well: At current continual growth rates (assuming the decline comes to a dead stop and remains steady), we will see 10 billion people late 2044. If the decline of the last 10 years continues indefinitely, humanity would go extinct around 3913.
- jl6 4y agoRIP. An incredible life.
- PaulHoule 4y agoShe learned to be a mechanic in WWII so she could do something tangible to support the war effort.
- 22SAS 4y agoRIP, your majesty! The end of an era, from volunteering in WW-II, to seeing the empire break, and the world getting crazier now.
- dijit 4y agodupe (many more comments here): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32768854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32768854
- zinekeller 4y agoIt should be merged, that has way too many comments to be left as-is.
- dang 4y agoThat thread was posted slightly later, so we've merged the comments hither. Thanks!
- mzs 4y agoBritain’s plan for when Queen Elizabeth II dies: POLITICO has obtained documents laying out Operation LONDON BRIDGE in granular detail https://www.politico.eu/article/queen-elizabeth-death-plan-britain-operation-london-bridge/ https://www.politico.eu/article/queen-elizabeth-death-plan-b...
- ars 4y agoThere can't be very many people alive who have been to a state funeral of this magnitude, let alone actually planned one. Is there another monarch alive with this many subjects?
- divbzero 4y agoIs there another monarch in history with this many subjects in a single reign? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_headed_by_Elizabeth_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_heade...
- that_guy_iain 4y agoI don't think there is another Royal family of the same prestidge. There are other royal families in Europe but you don't hear much about them.
- ClikeX 4y agoEh, it's also because the British royal family is basically a reality show. The Dutch royal family, by contrast, have a bit more privacy.
- kadoban 4y agoI'd be surprised if there wasn't. Does QE get credit for former colonies like Canada though? If so that might help. If you start counting what we'd usually call dictators, there definitely are bigger ones. The monarch/dictator line gets a little blurry and subjective/political I believe.
- deleted 4y ago
- controversial97 4y agoIf I remember correctly, the plan is that UK TV channels cancel all entertainment programs for the next ten days, so I look forward to more people going outside for the end of summer.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- astrange 4y ago
- shawabawa3 4y agoThere's no way that's true. Maybe one of the BBC channels
- mmikeff 4y agoThis is the first time we’ve had the TV on watching something whilst it is actually being broadcast though airwaves for months.
- netsharc 4y agoTo be glib about it, probably Netflix can tell us in the future how much viewership in the UK went up.
- petercooper 4y agoEven so, it's a different era now. When Diana died, the TV and radio were certainly very different for a good week thereafter. Nowadays, even if most TV and radio changes its schedule, there's Netflix, YouTube, Disney+, BBC iPlayer, 'catch up' services and all the rest, so you could very easily not be exposed to the national mood in the same way.
- balentio 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- COGlory 4y ago
- already 4y agoRIP. You had an inspiring life!
- bitcharmer 4y ago
- dang 4y agoFlamebait will get you banned here. No more of this please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- bitcharmer 4y ago
- 01100011 4y agoTwitter seems to be having trouble with the load.
- hk1337 4y agoTwitter is taking a moment of silence.
- annyeonghada 4y agoMay it last forever.
- Orthanc 4y agoSo say we all.
- faxmeyourcode 4y agoBorn in April, 1926, it's crazy how much the world has changed in her lifetime. May she rest in peace.
- yreg 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- CSMastermind 4y agoArguably the largest change in humanity in a ~100 year span? Especially if we go back to 1922. Mass communication, mass travel, etc. were all non existent. Like the first radio stations had just started broadcasting when she was born, now we're all discussing her passing on a communications network that connects the entire globe. Possibly some of us while on flights from one side of the world to the other.
- mytailorisrich 4y agoI would argue that the biggest change came to her parents' generation more or less. They were born without electricity, and everything it brought, and without cars or planes, and they lived to have pretty much all modern comfort and watch a man on the Moon on TV.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago> Mass communication, mass travel, etc. were all non existent Telegraphy had allowed current news to rapidly flow around the globe for decades.
- ThinkingGuy 4y agoTrue, but the information still had to be conveyed from the nearest telegraph office to your home (the 19th century "last mile problem")
- schroeding 4y ago:( It's mind-boggling to me to think about how long 70 years of reign actually is. How many world leaders she has seen come and go. How much the world changed since then.
- evgen 4y agoShe was just a year and a bit short of passing Louis XIV for longest reigning monarch. Almost made it...
- tromp 4y agoCloser to 2 years, as Louis reigned for 72 years and 110 days [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-reigning_monarchs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-reigning_monar...
- SllX 4y agoThere was a fairly mind-boggling bit in there too about the age gap of the Prime Ministers which served her. Winston Churchill born in 1874 and Liz Truss born in 1975 were her first and last Prime Ministers.
- distrill 4y ago
- kortex 4y agoShe reigned for about 1/3rd of the time America has existed. Incredible.
- artwr 4y agoCloser to a fourth, but still impressive.
- cygx 4y agoAbout 30%, actually: The US constitution came into effect in 1789, the Queen took the throne in 1952. (2022 - 1952) / (2022 - 1789) = 0.30 You're right if one starts counting from the declaration of independence, however, yielding 28.5%.
- already 4y agoRIP. You had an inspiring life!
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Victerius 4y agoGod save the King.
- matthews2 4y agoSaying that will take a bit of getting used to!
- christogreeff 4y agoRIP :(
- mywittyname 4y agoThis is the end of an era. I doubt any monarch can truly follow her legacy.
- johnchristopher 4y agoI don't think so. From what I read and see I think the world is about to change or die trying in the next 30 years. This monarch and the following one will also witness great changes and they may play some role in it.
- ryanbytes 4y ago
- privatdozent 4y agoShe always struck me as a person with extraordinary character and integrity. RIP
- protomyth 4y agoThe driving the Saudi King story is my favorite https://www.businessinsider.com/queen-england-terrified-saudi-king-driving-2017-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/queen-england-terrified-saud...
- pmontra 4y agoSpoiler: "Queen Elizabeth II doesn’t even have a driver’s license. As Queen, she doesn’t need one." but "as an Army driver during a war, she knew how to roll along Scotland’s winding roads."
- Aperocky 4y agoI AM THE LICENSE.
- 0xcafecafe 4y agoNice read! >>Queen Elizabeth II doesn’t even have a driver’s license. As Queen, she doesn’t need one Didn't know that either.
- Phrodo_00 4y agoThe king/queen's passport situation is also weird. British passports ask for passage "in the name of Her Majesty", but she theoretically doesn't need one since she can ask herself.
- OJFord 4y agoNot to disagree, just to say the phrasing IIRC is that HM 'requests and requires' (that the bearer of the passport be allowed to pass 'without let or hindrance', and so on).
- whoooooo123 4y agoArgh, and she was so close to overtaking Louis XIV as the longest reigning monarch in history! I was really hoping we'd beat the French. But seriously, this is a momentous day for Britain and the world. She was a titan of public life, known to billions. The world will never be the same without her. I don't know what these means for Britain but I expect it will be quite destabilising. May she rest in peace. Long live the king!
- dijit 4y agoThe many-many crisis' going on, the strikes, the incredibly unpopular ascent of a new prime minister and now this? Definitely destabilising. I suspect a collective mourning and unity of the country followed closely by civil unrest the likes of which hasn't been seen in living British memory.
- I-M-S 4y agoStalwart and solemn, she lived a life submitted to one's duty. Truly an end of an era.
- MichaelZuo 4y agoRest In Peace!
- nedsma 4y agoMay she rest in peace.
- UI_at_80x24 4y ago
- dang 4y agoDon't post flamebait to Hacker News, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- rvz 4y agoGood luck on moderating this one, dang. I think you need it.
- dang 4y agoIf accounts break the site guidelines and their history shows that they've been doing it repeatedly, we'll ban them. I've banned quite a few already. This is a housecleaning moment, since the accounts posting flamewar comments to this thread are so obviously not using the site as intended. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- prionassembly 4y agoA toast to dang's health.
- Hongwei 4y agoRIP. As a Canadian I've always liked that we technically had the Queen as our head of state. I wonder how attitudes will change now that her 70 year reign.
- collegeburner 4y ago
- shawabawa3 4y agoPeople hate change is the short answer The status quo has a lot of momentum and you need some sort of catalyst to make the change. Liz managed to avoid much controversy so that catalyst never appeared - perhaps her death will trigger the will to change it
- michael1999 4y agoBecause they have no power and we get to hold the actual elected leaders in contempt, as is right and just. The alternative is electing one, and that kind of worship messes with people's heads. Look how bonkers some Americans get about their blessed president.
- SonicScrub 4y agoI don't agree with the argument that having a Monarch somehow shields Canada from worship of it's leaders, or enables us to hold our leaders in contempt. Absolutely no one in country thinks of the Monarch as our head of state except in a technical sense. The Prime Minister is for all practical purposes. Having a monarch in no-way shields Canadian leaders from hero-worship. Nor does it make Canada uniquely able to hold politicians accountable. It's our Westminster-style parliamentary system that (somewhat) achieves that by concentrating less power in the hands of an individual, which could exist independent of the Monarch. It already essentially does since the King-Bing Affair in the 1920s cemented the Monarch's influence as purely ceremonial.
- dang 4y agoI'm going to assume that you didn't see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769101 before you posted this. Please stop now, so we don't have to ban you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- collegeburner 4y ago
- dang 4y agoWe ban accounts that post flamebait, which you've done more than once lately. Can you please stop? It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 6d6b73 4y ago
- balentio 4y agoIt'd be great to have a hacker news for things that are not hacker news. I refuse to go to reddit, though.
- dang 4y agoHacker News has never been purely about technology. You may be misunderstanding what's on topic here. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- drKarl 4y ago
- collegeburner 4y ago
- maxboone 4y agoMeh, it's more than tradition. It also brings stability and help with diplomatic relations. De facto, the country is not a monarchy but rather a democracy.
- dimator 4y agoDo they really have any power though? At this point they're there because they've always been there, but why is that bad on its own? It does give the people a sense of history and dignity about their longevity.
- gsatic 4y ago
- matsemann 4y agoWhy do you mean traditions are not important?
- hsavit1 4y ago
- dang 4y agoFlamebait will get you banned here, so please don't post like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- paxys 4y ago> In a statement, Buckingham Palace said: "The Queen died peacefully at Balmoral this afternoon. The King and the Queen Consort will remain at Balmoral this evening and will return to London tomorrow." Hearing "The King" in this context will take a long time getting used to.
- Beltalowda 4y agoIn the Netherlands we changed from queen to king in 2013, and you get used to it quicker than you'd think. There had been queens (rather than kings) since 1890!
- mytailorisrich 4y agoYes. Interestingly, though, she was only the 3rd Queen in British history (Edit: Oops, ok, 6th actually. Edit 2: ok the point is that there have been many more kings than queens!). But since her reign was so long there are few people alive who can remember a king on the throne.
- jp57 4y agoHm. I count six. Mary I, Elizabeth I, Mary II (joint monarch with Willam III), Anne, Victoria, Elizabeth II.
- nosianu 4y agoQueen Victoria also reigned for a very long time - 63 years, seven months and two days. A list, British Kings & Queens - by Length of Reign: https://britroyals.com/reigned.asp https://britroyals.com/reigned.asp These two women take the two top spots. By the way, in the otherwise completely unremarkable hobby-writer webnovel "Monroe" (https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/35398/monroe https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/35398/monroe) the queen was a - very popular - side character. After the introduction of "magic" in our universe she got her youth back and started killing monsters using armor and huge sword used by her ancestors hundreds of years earlier, in a sword and magic and levels fantasy universe. The author kept writing chapters about this initially not very important side character after it turned out a lot of readers found the Queen returning to youth and becoming a sword fighting and magic throwing monster killer at least as if not more appealing than following the story's actual main character. Sample chapter where she appears (look for "queen", it's down the middle of this chapter): https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/35398/monroe/chapter/847152/chapter-two-hundred-and-ten-god-save-the-queen https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/35398/monroe/chapter/84715...
- jackfruitpeel 4y agoSad on a human level, but she spent her years as the figurehead of an inherently fascist, racist institution — royalty. "Whoever had created humanity had left in a major design flaw. It was its tendency to bend at the knees.”
- ztgasdf 4y ago
- bogantech 4y ago[flagged]
- balentio 4y ago[flagged]
- dang 4y agoWe've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments. That's not allowed here. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- jackfruitpeel 4y agoThere were admirable things about her as a person, but the concept of monarchy is a stain on humanity. I can't respect anyone who supports the idea of superiority by virtue of bloodline.
- mariusor 4y agoExcuse my cynicism, but current European monarchies are just diplomatic services that are bred instead of hired. They represent a "superior bloodline" only if you have a chip on your shoulder.
- michaelwww 4y agoI admired her grace and incredible sensitivity to the role she played. To use an Americanism: "they don't make 'em like her anymore"
- celticninja 4y agoNo they do not and for that very reason we should abolish the monarchy. It is nothing but disappointment and indifference from here on. Go out on a high note I say. It doesn't have to be in the French style, but it also doesn't not have to be in the French style.
- michaelwww 4y agoI'm not British so I won't recommend what they do with their monarchy, but I agree with you that her descendants are an unimpressive lot
- origin_path 4y agoWilliam and Kate seem to be following in the Queen's footsteps though - they keep their head down and act dignified. He's the one who's next in line, so the antics of Harry+Megan don't count for much. After all the Royal Family has always had some characters who are more dramatic than others, but people judge it mostly by who sits on the throne.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoI do not find anything dignified about William and Kate either being bestowed a title due to the happenstance of the sequence and gender of one’s birth. Harry and Megan are capitalizing on their circumstances, as are William and Kate.
- whoooooo123 4y agoWhat's gender got to do with it? We abolished male primogeniture - William is the heir because he's the eldest, not because he's a man.
- deadcore 4y agoAs a Brit who's never really "followed" the Royals - I gotta say this makes me sad. The Queen stood for so much, in such a dignified way. May she rest in peace
- hangonhn 4y agoAs a former Hong Konger from before the handover but has long ago become American, the news also made me sad. I've always maintained a degree of affection for her throughout the years. I think the dignity you mentioned really helped in that.
- ipnon 4y agoThe Queen is the moral heart of the kingdom. She set an example for us. There remains a feeling that we lost a light to look towards.
- Balero 4y agoWas she? Did she? I couldn't place a single example she set for the country, or moral she espoused other than aloofness and politeness. I'm not sure I would count either of those as a moral. Her behind doors effects on laws and how they would effect her interests may have set an example[0], but not a positive one. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/14/queen-immunity-british-laws-private-property https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/14/queen-immuni...
- simonswords82 4y agoWinston Churchill (1951–55) Anthony Eden (1955–57) Harold Macmillan (1957–63) Alec Douglas-Home (1963–64) Harold Wilson (1964–70) Edward Heath (1970–74) Harold Wilson (1974–76) James Callaghan (1976–79) Margaret Thatcher (1979–90) John Major (1990–97) Tony Blair (1997–07) Gordon Brown (2007–10) David Cameron (2010–16) Theresa May (2016–19) Boris Johnson (2019–22) Liz Truss (2022 (two days ago) - current) Quite the reign! Can't help but feel a bit sad really.
- mytailorisrich 4y agoHeard on the BBC that Liz Truss was born 101 years after Winston Churchill.
- ricardobayes 4y agoCan't believe Brexit was voted 6 years ago, time flies so fast.
- IncRnd 4y agoAlong those lines, Britain joined the EU a year after Smalltalk-72 and K&R C were introduced. Smalltalk inspired Objective-C, which is still used today in Macs.
- origin_path 4y agoThe British Constitution can be seen as a large piece of legacy code which has never been tossed and rewritten from scratch, just incrementally patched and refactored over a really long period of time. Downside: lots of bizarre complexities, bits of dead code, stuff that works as long as nobody touches it etc. Upsides: it's really stable.
- neilwilson 4y agoMuch like our DNA. As I get older I have more and more respect for Chestertons Fence.
- 4y ago
- scrlk 4y agoRIP. An end of an era for the UK.
- ReptileMan 4y agoRip. May she rest in peace. And the timing was impeccably terrible... Charles doesn't have the skills, charisma, connections or political capital to help his nation in the upcoming hard times.
- knorker 4y agoMaybe he'll be less corrupt than her, though. Unlikely, sure. Never forget that Beth used all of those skills to further enrich herself and her family, and protecting her pedofile son.
- dang 4y agoPlease stop posting flamebait comments to HN. We ban such accounts and have had to warn you about this multiple times before. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (for anyone rushing to post 'oh so you support $hideous-thing do you' – no, just trying to have an internet forum that doesn't suck)
- knorker 4y agoI'm sorry. I disagree that this is flame bait, but respect your interpretation. I do think it's important to recognize the crimes of historical figures especially in cases where people fall over each other about how much of a saint they are. I have strong feelings about her, and exactly because this is HN I chose to not air them in this forum. Arguably ignoring the negative aspects is spreading fake news disinformation, which is a problem on the Internet in general nowadays.
- danielfoster 4y ago
- BerislavLopac 4y agoAnd Josip Manolić still lives. [0] (For context, this politician's ability to keep outliving his peers is a local running joke.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Manoli%C4%87 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Manoli%C4%87
- saberience 4y agoIt's weird, I've never considered myself a "royalist" but this news has affected me quite strongly. I just burst into tears unexpectedly on hearing this news and I don't quite understand why I feel so very sad. I guess I have grown up and lived my whole life (as a Brit) seeing and hearing the Queen, singing "God save the Queen" etc, and this news made me suddenly feel very old, very nostalgic, with the sense that all things pass in time, which makes my heart ache deeply.
- dijit 4y agoIt's understandable, she's been a constant vague presence for a lot of British people. It feels like a minor part of our personal history died. I definitely feel saddened, even if I don't have a connection with royalty.
- PaulHoule 4y agoShe's also been a moral authority. She avoided the soap opera situations that have dogged the rest of the moral family and frequently she's shown leadership. In WWII she trained as a mechanic so she could do something tangible to support the war effort.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago> the soap opera situations that have dogged the rest of the [royal] family "Soap opera situations" seems like a gentle way to put it. Several of her family members have been accused of serious crimes, and associated with some very nasty people. For years they were shielded by their association with her.
- type_Ben_struct 4y ago“I declare before you all, that my whole life, whether it be long or short, shall be devoted to your service” Rest in peace.
- andrepd 4y ago
- secondcoming 4y agoWhat was she supposed to do, stay at home and play minecraft?
- type_Ben_struct 4y agoShe was hardly partying in Ibiza every weekend. She spent her life serving her country.
- tssva 4y agoNone of those things are in conflict with her statement.
- dang 4y agoIt looks like you've mostly been using HN for political-ideological battle lately, and we ban that sort of account, so please don't do that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- xtracto 4y agoI remember clearly the time when Princess Diana died (1997). For me, it was THE moment when I understood the impact of the Internet. I was randomly browsing the web during the night in Mexico, and suddenly I started to see websites (I think Yahoo and MSN at that time) showing the news. I went to sleep without giving it too much attention. Next day, all the news in my country were mentioning the death as breaking news. My mind was blown over how I knew about this very important event the night before Mexico TV broke the news. May the Queen rest in Peace.
- elliekelly 4y agoI had a similar experience. I saw news of her death online and assumed it was some sort of hoax. When I woke up the next morning and saw it on the (TV) news I had this weird “Holy shit! The internet was right!?” moment. It was very surreal. Up until that point I hadn’t even considered that the internet could be used for much beyond screwing around and chat rooms let alone that it could be a platform for breaking news!
- axiolite 4y ago> My mind was blown over how I knew about this very important event the night before Mexico TV broke the news. I've had the opposite experience. It's clear that real-time news is detrimental, and it's better for reporting to wait a bit for facts to come in and analysis to be done. Early reporting is vague, light on facts, disjointed, facts are hedged, etc. It's really quite worthless.
- School-Cotton 4y agoYour parent comment never claimed that real-time news was a good or bad thing.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- divbzero 4y agoThe Queen learned of her father’s death by telegraph — her own death was announced by tweet.
- dirtyid 4y agoRIP. I don't look forward to her being replaced by Charles on my money.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y agoDon't worry too much about for money. From what I know, the royal family brings in far more in taxes on merch / tv coverage rights / other revenues than it takes to sustain them. They also have a considerable estate which is likely profitable.
- kraftman 4y agoI think he means literally on the bank notes and coins.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y agoUh oh I didn't think of that. Who has cash on hand these days?
- 12ian34 4y agoIt's good that she was able to go with her family by her side in a place she loved. There will be lots of mourning in the UK. I'm anti-monarchy but she's clearly left quite the legacy, and people that have met her have only great things to say about her manner and attitude.
- Accacin 4y agoI'm also anti-monarchy, but if we had to have one, I'm glad it was her :) I've never met or didn't know her, but she came across as a good person and it's odd to know that she's gone.
- fezfight 4y ago
- evgen 4y agoWell, I would guess that at the very least she would be able to spell throne.
- dang 4y agoPlease don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes everything worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 4y agoPlease don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769091.
- fezfight 4y agoDang, does this post 'gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.'? Should it be on HN? I don't believe so. The only intellectually interesting thing about the monarchy is how we let them persist now all the fake divinity is gone. Which is what my comment is intended to spur conversation about. So claim what you like, it's your site, but I believe you're wrong.
- dang 4y agoIt's a major historical event. History is on topic here and always has been. Readers who do not have an intellectually curious response are welcome not to post. There are plenty of other things to read. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- m00dy 4y agoone liz in one liz out
- Guy2020 4y ago
- yessirwhatever 4y agoFuck her and fuck all royalty. I couldn’t give a shit…
- dang 4y agoWe've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments. That's not allowed here. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- kensai 4y agoCanada has lost its queen as well. And not only Canada.
- cgrealy 4y agoYep, Australia, NZ, Jamaica, PNG and others.
- forrestthewoods 4y ago
- pedrosorio 4y agoBased on the data, that's unclear (18-24 year olds only) at best: https://www.statista.com/statistics/863893/support-for-the-monarchy-in-britain-by-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/863893/support-for-the-m...
- forrestthewoods 4y agoPublic support for monarchies is independent of whether they’re actually good or bad. I think everything about them is gross and revolting. Other people think otherwise. Thankfully democratic countries aren’t creating new monarchies. Nor should they.
- zo1 4y agoI don't think this thread is the one you should be using to proclaim your revulsion at monarchies.
- jmfldn 4y agoI am a republican i.e. very anti-monarchist but it is a historic moment and I feel sad for some reason. The end of an era. A constant throughout the postwar period in this country. Someone my gran loved too and looked up to, so I feel pretty sad as a Brit.
- zinckiwi 4y agoCommonwealth citizen and feel much the same. She had my respect, but takes all of it with her...
- bxhsiiaag 4y agoFrom one of the commonwealth countries, I don't feel sad and I am not sure how to feel about such news from anyone from the British royal family from that time, they surely must have had an effect on how the world turned out or maybe they didn't (I don't know much about British history and its inner workings). This family was responsible for a lot of pain and suffering world wide, or maybe these members of this family were responsible to put an end to the pain and suffering around the world as the world moved on. In any case, my condolences to the ones greiving.
- nprateem 4y agoYep. A good time to end it all on as much of a high as they're likely to get.
- nly 4y agoCharles should abdicate to the young and more relatable William and Kate.
- petre 4y agoIt's a pity she died. I'm a republican as well. Not British but I'll probably have a hard time getting used to Charles being king after he took Bin Laden's cash.
- Guy2020 4y ago
- pknerd 4y agoHow many American Presidents came into power during her tenure?
- evgen 4y agoAt her coronation Eisenhower was president and she saw 13 US presidents while queen (and there was an additional three between her birth and when she became the queen.) Victoria actually saw more presidents come to power in her lifetime since there was a greater tendency for one-term presidents earlier in US history.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mkmk 4y agoRIP. Perhaps the last reigning Queen of England the world will ever see.
- ianburrell 4y agoAre you expecting end of monarchy? There was recent rule change for succession to not depend on gender that makes it more likely there will be a queen in future. For example, Prince Charlotte is now third in line instead of fourth after her younger brother with the old rules.
- madamelic 4y agoIf global warming as predicted, it's very likely. The succession is all men: Charles (10 - 20 years of reign puts us in the 2030s) William (30 - 50 years puts us between 2060 - 2080) George (30 - 50 years puts us between 2120 - 2140) The next possible female monarch is if George dies for some reason (passing onto Charlotte) or if George has a daughter first which would mean she'd take the throne well into the 2100s.
- 988747 4y agoGeorge is already nine years old, I doubt he will be alive in 2120, let alone 2140 (that would require him to live till 127 years of age). You have to rethink your math here. If we assume he'll die at 100, that brings us to 2113.
- madamelic 4y agoAh yep. Forgot to include another 'skip' generation of either abdication or short reign like Charles will be, since my assumption was that William serves a term similar in length to his grandmother.
- bloak 4y ago> Prince Charlotte is now third in line instead of fourth Yes, but I don't think the gender-neutral titles are official quite yet!
- racktash 4y agoThis is probably the only death of a public figure that has really hit me hard. The Queen was a constant all of my life, all of my parents' lives and, indeed, a good deal of my grandparents' lives. The comfort she could bring to many is not to be underestimated in my view. When Covid-19 was kicking off in the UK, and our lives were changing in ways we couldn't predict, I remember being immensely comforted by her speech.
- JAlexoid 4y agoHer speech was almost perfectly engineered.
- bennyp101 4y agoIndeed, it felt like a safe, reassuring voice in a sea of panic. A voice that had been heard for decades and for me at least, represented that “keep calm and carry on” mentality. RIP
- ath0 4y agoHer speech early in the Covid-19 era was one for the ages[1]: Short, personal, reflective of history yet with a clear call-to-action for her country. I'm not British and also found it exceptional. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-britain-queen-text/text-queen-elizabeths-addresses-the-united-kingdom-on-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSL8N2BT0VD https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-britain-q...
- sph 4y ago"It reminds me of the very first broadcast I made, in 1940, helped by my sister. We, as children, spoke from here at Windsor to children who had been evacuated from their homes and sent away for their own safety." This is the broadcast she was referring to: https://youtu.be/VJI9LPFQth4 https://youtu.be/VJI9LPFQth4
- xpe 4y agoThank you for giving this perspective. I admit my aversion towards monarchy has inclined me to ignore news of the royal family. I also perceive a correlation between tabloid coverage and triviality. I admit neither of these are good reasons to discount the Queen's impact on people, much of which was in spite of a general preference for democratic rule.
- swalls 4y ago
- dang 4y agoWe've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments. That's not allowed here. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. (Edit: actually I took a second look and your account history doesn't seem to be as I described it above—perhaps I got my wires crossed—so I've unbanned it for now. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like that though! It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.)
- superchroma 4y agoPrince Andrew is a pedophile, it's not unsubstantiated, that's a monstrous thing to allege.
- dang 4y agoUnsubstantive ≠ unsubstantiated.
- superchroma 4y ago
- dang 4y agoYes? I've used that word thousands of times and it has purely to do with comment quality: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20unsubstantive&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....
- 4y ago
- insane_dreamer 4y agoThe last monarch of her kind; I don’t think the British monarchy institution will ever be the same nor future monarchs looked at with the same respect.
- pontifier 4y agoMakes me wonder what sorts of things will be triggered by this event. I bet security services are on high alert, and for some reason I'm a little worried about getting on my flight in a couple hours.
- glitchcrab 4y agoI suspect you’re somewhat overthinking/over-worrying here. What scenario do you see playing out with regards to your flight?
- pontifier 4y agoI probably am. I had a dream a few days ago that I was in a plane crash, then a major world event happens just before I fly? The world feels very unstable at the moment.
- rbolla 4y agoOm Shanthi .
- cauefcr 4y ago
- adammarples 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- meowmeowmoo 4y agoWasn’t he a sexual predator?
- hit8run 4y agoI think he was one of Englands greatest child molesters.
- dang 4y agoPosting flamebait to HN will get you banned here. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769157.
- bengale 4y agoI’m finding this is hitting a lot harder than I expected.
- mattlondon 4y agoTime to end on a high? Shall we just abandon this whole monarchy thing and time to flip over to a republic and leave the much revered queen as the last ever monarch of the UK? Seems like Scotland is going to go independent, and if Scotland do Wales will only be a matter of time so may as well just can it now?
- cameronh90 4y agoI believe that Charles is now officially already king.
- philistine 4y agoThe phrase the King is dead long live the King exists to make sense of the whole concept. A throne is never empty. The second Elizabeth died, Charles became king.
- mechanical_bear 4y agoBut coronation will not occur for about a year.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y agoCoronation is just a ceremony.
- frereubu 4y agoThis threw me back to studying Ionesco at school - "Le roi se meurt! Vive le roi!"
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- lawlorino 4y agoYes I think this is the case. The death announcement from Buckingham Palace refers to him as such. "The Queen died peacefully at Balmoral this afternoon. The King and The Queen Consort will remain at Balmoral this evening and will return to London tomorrow."
- lotux 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ProfessorLayton 4y agoI have to wonder if people will be less receptive of the monarchy now that there's going to be a King instead of a Queen.
- petesergeant 4y agoI suspect the King in question is a bigger point than it being _a_ King. I think King William could easily carry the monarchy another generation
- datavirtue 4y ago
- anon291 4y agoWhile I admire the Elizabeth's dedication to preserving her own family's inheritance, I fundamentally do not believe anyone can inherit a country. The monarchy should die along with the monarch.
- jmyeet 4y agoSome view the monarchy as anachronistic. Of course there's merit to that argument but the monarchy as an institution really doesn't cost that much and has worked in the British political system as really a check on abuse of government power. The Queen's consent in forming government is routine but it can be withheld. Australia had an example of this where the Governor General (the Queen's representative in the Australian government) sacked the government and formed a caretaker governmen tin the 1970s. The American system of relying on centuries of tenuous interpretation of a fairly short document just isn't as much of an improvement as you think. The Australian constitution allows for the Governor General to have "reserve powers" without specifying what they are. Ultimately all these systems rely on trust. It's wild to think the Queen began her reign with having weekly chats with Winston Churchill all the way up to appointing Liz Truss just this week. Her father fought in World War I. She lived through World War II. It's wild to think about. It's also wild to consider the Queen never had an exepctation of ruling. An abdication caused that to happen. The happiest and freest time of her life may well have been living on Malta prior to that, living a fairly normal life with her husband and young family. Institutions exist to protect the people, not the institutions themselves. Never forget that.
- VictorPath 4y ago>... check on abuse of government power. The Queen's consent in forming government is routine but it can be withheld... > Australia had an example of this where the Governor General (the Queen's representative in the Australian government) sacked the government and formed a caretaker governmen tin the 1970s. Australia was ruled by a Liberal/Country coalition from the 1940s to the end of 1972. Finally the workers of Australia elect a Labor PM, and he was thwarted for three years and then removed at the behest of a hereditary monarch thousands of miles away. That sounds like abuse, but not of the type you mean.
- zizee 4y ago> then removed at the behest of a hereditary monarch thousands of miles away. That sounds like abuse You forgot to mention the part where Australia immediately held an election. The poor victimised Labour party, who you would have us believe was wrongly removed, lost the vote by a landslide. If the people wanted Whitlam's government, and thought it was a grave injustice, they would have voted them back in. They were clearly unpopular given the election results. The end result was decided by the people, not the Queen/Governor General/Liberals.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- 533474 4y ago
- dym_sh 4y ago
- 533474 4y agoI just said "top in HN..". I have no intention of starting a flame-war but seeing the amount of valid comments deleted it seems to me that despite being indifferent about this news, the only rhetoric left in this thread is praise, why is praise not flamewar?. I am not inviting comment on this unpopular opinion but asking for a reflection from fellow 'hackers' of how one-sided intelligent conversations are becoming here. People who may have a different opinion about this news may be afraid to state their facts. And individuals like me, indifferent, cannot express our indifference about this event
- dang 4y agoWe don't delete comments, but flags (whether from users or moderators) do kill them, which means only users with 'showdead' turned on in their profile can see them. If you see a [dead] comment that's actually following the site guidelines and using HN as intended, I'd appreciate a link so we can unkill it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- BryLuc 4y ago
- Guy2020 4y ago
- ChildOfChaos 4y agoHoping for a bank holiday although unlikely
- g42gregory 4y agoI really feel that Charles should at least consider passing on the Crown to his son William. William and Kate are immensely popular. It would be a good thing for Great Britain, British people as well as for the Royal Family. Charles and Camilla are the opposite in terms of respect and popularity to William and Kate, as far as I understand. If Charles does that, he would write himself into the annals of British history. I am not from GB, so I may be misreading the situation.
- bambataa 4y agoI find this an interesting idea. Normally the response is “the whole point of a hereditary monarchy is that you don’t get to choose” and obviously Charles has been champing at the bit for years. However, there is also the historical idea of the monarch needing to be a good one and keep up their end of the bargain. Interesting times ahead!
- aeneasmackenzie 4y agoEdward 8 had to abdicate to marry outside of the church of England, and Charles is already married outside of the church of England. His abdication wouldn't be weird.
- lostlogin 4y agoIt’s almost as though there could be a better system, one where ability could be judged and debated and voted on.
- Rackedup 4y ago
- dheera 4y agoWhy democracy? Monarchy isn't great, but neither is democracy when most of your population is idiots who don't believe in science.
- notorandit 4y agoI feel sad for all the U.K. people. Twice. Once for the death and once for whoever will come next on the throne. I am sorry for you!
- mrlonglong 4y agoKing Charles should consider stepping down in favour of William. We need someone fresh to take on the upcoming difficult times ahead for the disintegrating UK.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- antonymy 4y agoWilliam's children are too young to fulfill their role as immediate heirs. It's probably best to let Charles reign as long as possible until his grandchildren reach their majority.
- seydor 4y agocould this influence some of the last remaining royalties around the world? I don't think charles or his son will ever be well respected. Elizabeth was faithful to her role, very conservative, oversaw the end of the british empire, probably the last recognized monarch worldwide. Without her, the royalties of saudi arabia are somewhat without peers , which may delegitimize them in the eyes of their citizens.
- irthomasthomas 4y agoQueen Elizabeth shepherded Britain through one of the longest periods of peace, and stability in our history. I hope King Charles will continue that tradition. I always remember this letter she wrote in a old copy of Burke's Peerage, on why she was banning the use of foreign titles. "As chaste women ought not to cast their eyes on any other than their own husbands, so neither ought subjects to cast their eyes upon any other prince than him whom God hath set over them. I would not have my sheep branded with another man's mark; I would not have them follow the whistle of a strange shepherd." -Queen Elizabeth II 1926 - 2022 God save the Queen. And protect us all from strange shepherds.
- 9991 4y agoThat letter is one of the worst things I’ve ever read. She believed that God put her above other people.
- danuker 4y agoOr was obligated by the position to say so.
- PostOnce 4y agoThis is paraphrasing the Bible, and I can't find any evidence anyone ever said it in exactly those words. Look, this thread is the only result for exact phrasing: https://www.google.com/search?channel=fs&client=ubuntu&q=%22As+chaste+women+ought+not+to+cast+their+eyes+on+any+other+than+their+own+husbands%2C+so+neither+ought+subjects+to+cast+their+eyes+upon+any+other+prince+than+him+whom+God+hath+set+over+them.+%22 https://www.google.com/search?channel=fs&client=ubuntu&q=%22... However there is evidence Queen Elizabeth I (400 years ago) said part of it: https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=tayxm6fO1kIC&pg=PA528&lpg=PA528&dq=%22I+would+not+have+my+sheep+branded+with+another+man%27s+mark;+I+would+not+have+them+follow+the+whistle+of+a+strange+shepherd https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=tayxm6fO1kIC&pg=PA528&lp...
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y agoI was born in the UK, in 1963. Because of my step-father's love of first-wave UK punk, the first thing I did on hearing this news was to play the Sex Pistol's "God Save the Queen". It is remarkable how much the Queen's standing has improved during the time since that song (1977). My (UK) family are (as far as I know) staunch republicans, but the last couple of decades have seen all of us soften our disgust with the monarchy as Elizabeth represented it. We might still want the whole concept destroyed, but there is nothing close to the vehemence of Johnny Rotten (Lydon)'s lyrics from that song. Nevertheless, that is how a bunch of people felt in 1977, and as our memories become even more gilded and rose goggled now that she has died, it may be worth remembering those feelings too: God save the queen / The fascist regime / They made you a moron / A potential H bomb / God save the queen / She's not a human being / and There's no future / And England's dreaming These days, I think even us staunch republicans/anti-monarchists would begrudgingly admit that "She could have been worse" and that she actually was a human being. Maybe Charles will have the guts to end it all, but it doesn't seem likely.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tuoret 4y agoI put on the song as soon as I heard the news and it took Spotify something like 15 seconds to load it. There's a very stressed server out there right now.
- colechristensen 4y ago
- rhplus 4y ago> "the opaque procedure of Queen’s consent has been exercised far more extensively than was previously believed" https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vetted-more-than-1000-laws-via-queens-consent https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vette...
- antonymy 4y agoWikipedia wasted no time updating King Charles' page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles,_King_of_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles,_King_of_the_United_Ki...
- UncleSlacky 4y agoI think he's said that he's going to style himself "King George VII" as he didn't approve of Charles II.
- linker3000 4y agoNope, Charles III it is: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59135132 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59135132
- madamelic 4y agoYep. This morning there was a debate on QE2's page about the wording for Elizabeth's death section and they already had a draft written for when it was officially announced. This event was really well telegraphed hours ahead (BBC in all black, cancelling their afternoon programming, everything straight from Operation London Bridge started at 8 or 9 ET)
- Kenji 4y ago[dead]
- andrepd 4y agoNot that this is quite the right time, but is there any list of the Queen's achievements that isn't simply "she lived for very long" and "she witnessed some important events"? I fail to see why this is impressive.
- cvoss 4y agoIt's impressive because the rest of us have to read about these things in history books or in the news. She was there for it all, not only witnessing, but discussing, events of profound significance with the people at the center of them. And, I think, show-me-the-achievements represents a misunderstanding of the role of the monarch in the British government and British culture. It's not comparable to the Prime Minister or the US President, for example.
- rafale 4y agoThe role of the Monarch is not easy to qualify. She is a symbol of continuation, stability and unity. Her neutrality makes her look like she is doing exactly nothing, when it's the source of her power and influence. She lives above politics. Beyond that, the Queen has real so called reserve powers that in theory she could use in time of great crisis to change government or stop laws (she used it once I think). But she can't use them in an authoritarian manner or else risk losing them and tarnish her legacy.
- jsmith99 4y agoHer main achievement was utterly subordinating her personal life to the requirement of her public life. No one has any idea of what her personal belief was on any matter more consequential than what brand of cornflakes she ate.
- kfrzcode 4y agoGo here, scroll to the section entitled "References" and read some stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II
- jyscao 4y agoSomeone else linked this in the comments: https://www.businessinsider.com/queen-england-terrified-saudi-king-driving-2017-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/queen-england-terrified-saud... > She remains the only female member of the royal family to join the military, and is the only living head of state to serve in WWII. Personally speaking, I definitely respect her for that.
- privatdozent 4y ago«An introvert person in an extrovert job»
- zander312 4y agoGod save the Queen.
- VictorPath 4y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02D2T3wGCYg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02D2T3wGCYg
- bsedlm 4y agoI adamantly reject the belief that some people are inherently better and deserve special treatment by society and before the law because of their ancestry. This includes all nobility and royalty titles. Historically and traditionally, nobles are/were the owners of the land. Shoddy job they've done at taking care of the environment. Overpowered by the industrialists, the new ruling hegemonic class (since the aftermath of WWII); who have been clever to stay out of the public view, unlike these historical noble and royal icons.
- pphysch 4y agoThe royal family presently takes around £100,000,000 each year from the UK to pay for their "duties". It's called the Sovereign Grant system.
- mariusor 4y agoIf the monarchy wouldn't exist as an institution, a lot of that money would still go to the upkeep of the various domains that comprise it. The Buckingham palace won't disappear if the UK becomes a democracy. Assuming all of that money goes into the personal wealth of the members of the royal family is a little naive.
- andrepd 4y agoIt's weird that this is met with such hostility on a website like hn. Probably just the sensitive timing.
- cauefcr 4y ago
- dang 4y agoWould you please stop posting flamebait to HN? It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- cauefcr 4y ago
- acqbu 4y ago
- dang 4y agoThis is an internet entertainment site. It's not possible to "oppose literal fascism" here—that's a category error. All that is possible is to make pointless comments—either curious ones or tedious ones. "Literal fascism" comments are the latter and those are off topic, so please don't.
- cauefcr 4y ago
- dang 4y agohttps://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=likeliest%20explanation%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- lucideer 4y agoIf comments opposing fascism are not suitable for this site, surely posts eliciting broad support for fascism should be subject to similar restriction? If HN is choosing to continue to platform a discussion on a politically loaded topic such as this, then either anti-fascist sentiment should be permitted, or neither.
- acqbu 4y ago
- henriquemaia 4y agoTo everyone who feels sad by these news, my condolences. I respect your pain. However, I have to confess that to whenever I hear that someone aged 90+ (80+, even) died, I don't really feel sad. Actually, I feel an urge to praise this person's achievements, as I'm aware we are all mortals, and death is unavoidable. I prefer to rejoice in how much this person has witnessed throughout her life, how she had enough health to keep her wits until the end, how she could raise children, grandchildren, and even know her great-grandchildren. What else can we humans aspire? Living forever is out of question. As soon as we are born, we are bound to die. So it's a pretty good life to be able to reach a good age, knowing that all our dear ones are set for life, raising families of their own, and living their lives the way that is best suited for them. This is not just theory. I felt this when my grandfather died, aged 95, when my grandmother died aged 96, and when other people I knew died old enough for their deaths not really come as a surprise.
- KronisLV 4y ago> What else can we humans aspire? Living forever is out of question. As soon as we are born, we are bound to die. I don't know, living to anywhere between 1'000 to 1'000'000 years of age would surely be quite the interesting experience, lots of things to learn, lots of things to experience. Such numbers might seem humorous but in the grand scheme of things that's still nothing, given the age of Earth and all that. I get the feeling that if humans approached aging and death as an engineering problem, in a few centuries to a few thousands of years a viable solution might just spring up. If nothing else, then fighting aging and everything that comes with it is definitely worth it, so the last decades of your life don't consist of being trapped in a degrading flesh prison and possibly suffering from ailments that will take away your ability to be a person (e.g. Alzheimer's or other neurodegenerative conditions, or serious health conditions due to aging). Of course, most people don't like to think about their own mortality or consider it (or diseases that may affect them later in life) a serious problem, much less a solvable one. For some religion is enough, for others ignorance does nicely. It feels like we might benefit from more focus on this and research in this direction. Realistically, one just has to take care of themselves as best as they can and spend their time well. > Actually, I feel an urge to praise this person's achievements... Regardless, this is admirable. A life well lived is one worth celebrating, with its many achievements and its impact on the people around them.
- ed_db 4y agoVery sad news
- xchip 4y ago
- rkuykendall-com 4y agoYou will find any news story of this magnitude on HN. Things like a new president. You're probably just not used to it because they are pretty rare.
- dtx1 4y ago
- birdyrooster 4y agoThe end of an era
- Emma_Goldman 4y agoI realise she has just died and it's unbecoming to do anything but laud the person, but this is just moral obsequiousness. She claims fealty by right of blood, reigned as the crown of an extraordinarily cruel empire, and frequently interceded in the democratic government of Britain to protect her private interests.
- origin_path 4y agoGiven that most empires in history were pretty darn cruel, you might have to justify the idea that the British Empire was extraordinarily cruel, especially given that the Queen only reigned in its last years and that many of the former members of the Empire chose to stay on as part of the Commonwealth. Also the British Empire is unique (AFAIK?) in having wound itself up more or less peacefully at the end, rather than needing to be destroyed by a massive rebellion or war - the usual way empires usually die (well, except for the pesky Americas of course... but that was a bit before Liz's time!)
- samstave 4y ago
- origin_path 4y agoThe Queen was not responsible for the acts of her children once they became adults, whatever they may be, no more than any mother is. As for comments about what she was like in private, who can really say? But perhaps more to the point - does it matter? The Queen was The Queen and not Elizabeth Windsor because of the exceptionally strict and rigorous separation she kept between her private life and her public role. She had a very long life, yet rarely if ever did it become known what her personal or political views actually were. Undoubtably she had help in this from an establishment that tacitly agreed to uphold these conventions, but ultimately it was down to her. The Queen was, in some very real sense, not an individual with a personality and all the complexities individuals bring but an abstraction, a constitutional icon, that was created and maintained by a woman named Elizabeth Windsor through sheer force of will. This is easier to see when you contrast it with King Charles III of course, whose personal views and personal life is well documented. A big question mark is whether he will now adopt the conventions that his mother sustained and become that abstraction, or whether he will be a monarch of opinions. W.R.T. the Empire, this is probably not the thread for it, but it slowly became the Commonwealth over the period of Elizabeth's reign and it did so in a unique and largely peaceful manner. She was born just after World War 1, into a world that had been torn apart by war between empires. She died in a world where empires had long ago ceased to exist. Where there were exceptions to that peaceful transition, it wasn't because the Queen sent in her army to capture or recapture territory as it was for most of history. That's the reason she was the Queen and not merely a Queen: it's that legacy of peaceful transition that left her the notional reigning monarch over large parts of the world, even decades after the British Empire had ceased to exist. Even if that's a mere historical convention and not political reality, what other empires had such good relations with its old territories like that? Not many, and the Queen deserves a lot of credit for that outcome.
- knorker 4y ago
- WFHRenaissance 4y agoReally finding out whose reactionary vs revolutionary today at work.
- cwillu 4y agoReminder that the rules of chess now swap the roles and movement of the king and queen.
- BonoboIO 4y agoI feel sad for the british empire, she was like the figure that represented the whole Great Britain. I think it’s the start of a Long way down. Brexit is a disaster, Prince Charles is not really a charming person, Scotland wants to leave Great Britain and join the EU, Northern Ireland is split as ever. God save the king.
- petesergeant 4y ago> Scotland wants to leave Great Britain I'm not sure that's geologically feasible
- Waterluvian 4y agoMy Canadian money is about to get weird.
- cgrealy 4y agoIt's probably worthless now. Give it to me, I'll dispose of it responsibly :D
- Waterluvian 4y agoThat’s kind of you. Ill send it all over!
- phkahler 4y agoBloom County. Comic strip. Back in the 1980's did a whole series after William was born poking fun at the royals. I collected a whole shoebox of comics including most of that series. Long since put it in the trash, but I have never seen any of those strips again. Oh but google: https://www.google.com/search?q=bloom+county+prince+william https://www.google.com/search?q=bloom+county+prince+william
- dpbriggs 4y agoGod save the King.
- rishabhd 4y agoEnd, of an era. RIP.
- phtrivier 4y agoThoughts for the family, and all people affectively attached to the monarchy That being said, given the geopolitical situation, I would not want to be responsible for the sitting arrangement of international dignitaires at the funeral. (In a fantasy book, it would be the "perfect" occasion for every one to meet on "sacred ground", observe a truce, and get so drunk that unexpected settlements get found. Sadly, we don't live in a fantasy book.)
- frosted-flakes 4y agoYes, Prime Minister had an amusing bit about that, and how they definitely weren't going to be seated in alphabetical order.
- wtcactus 4y agoI don't believe in monarchies generally, and this sentiment remains throughout my life, although for slightly different reasons that keep improving with age. The more I read and know about history, the more I understand that the ideal of the Enlightened Monarch is a rare event, that can be destroyed in a single generation (we only have to look at Imperial Rome history for quite a few examples). Still, I do really respect the person and work that Elizabeth II did thorough her entire life, I really believe she helped improve the world with her limited power. Many purely democratic countries - mine included - would be so lucky to have her as the head of state.
- dimensionc132 4y agoOne person should not receive so much attention. People die. We all die. Yes, I understand she was a fake Queen of a country, but so what? Why do we feel we need to worship these people, be it royalty or celebrities? They are just people, like you and me who happen to be famous. People are dying in Gaza too, maybe spare a tear for them.
- _-david-_ 4y ago>Yes, I understand she was a fake Queen of a country, but so what? She was a real queen, albeit with little power. What is a fake queen? >Why do we feel we need to worship these people, be it royalty or celebrities? Can you point to anybody worshipping her? Talking about a person or showing them respect is not worship. >People are dying in Gaza too, maybe spare a tear for them. Can people not do both?
- dimensionc132 4y agoA Queen, without power is a fake; it's just a title but with the inability to do anything because successive governments over time striped the Royal Family of any and all powers, and any that do remain can be vetoed by the Govt. This media circus, is a form a worship. Sure people can cry for a person such as the Queen, a person they do not know except for what they see on TV or in other forms of media. Personally I don't get it, I think Israel bombing Gaza killing children (just an example) is far more sad
- nly 4y agoShe did have power. She chose not to wield it or interfere, and trust in the system.
- dimensionc132 4y agoShe was a figurehead only Although she was Commander-In-Chief, she gave responsibility to the prime minister and the Secretary of State for Defence, along with other officials. Theoretically she could have ordered a strike against the white house but this would be vetoed by the govt. She had the ability to declar war, however the government doesn’t need the Queen’s permission. She could have issued an order of Dissolution of Parliament, but parliament is not the same as the government. The British government is the one that actually rules in the UK. Also such an act would have caused an absolute uproar among UK citizens and probably ensured the beginning of a Republic So she has "power" in name only, but no real power which was my point, everything has been taken away from her ... and now also King Charles.
- gwbas1c 4y agoFYI: When people are this age, they can die suddenly without much warning. I saw a headline a few hours ago about her family coming to visit, and I thought we'd have a few days. Both of my grandmothers died at 91 without much warning. Cherish your time with your elders, and don't procrastinate a visit.
- netsharc 4y agoI mean, the family rushed there because they knew "this could be it", and the statement issued by the palace this morning "Following further evaluation this morning, the Queen's doctors are concerned for Her Majesty's health and have recommended she remain under medical supervision. The Queen remains comfortable at Balmoral." was probably meant to also be taken as a big warning, despite it sounding understated.
- jesuscript 4y agoDo we understand what makes it sudden yet? The point has been made many times about Biden, Bernie and Trumps age, but I guess that suddenness doesn’t quite kick in until 85+?
- gwbas1c 4y agoSome tests (I think blood) can detect that a body is about to die. As far as why, the human body just can't go on forever. With my grandfather, who was 101, someone did a blood test and told us he was going to die very soon. A few hours later, when I visited, he was pushing his wheelchair around and pestering the social worker about all of his funeral plans. It honestly reminds me of the end of the movie Zardoz. (He had his funeral planned for years.) He died four days later.
- irrational 4y ago
- beebmam 4y ago
- lame-robot-hoax 4y agoSpeak for yourself
- beebmam 4y agoPeople in the US vote for politicians out of spite and animus towards the other party, not because they endorse their own party or politicians.
- Psychoshy_bc1q 4y agowhich is even more stupid in my opinion
- lame-robot-hoax 4y agoThat’s much different than cheering when someone dies.
- bmsleight_ 4y agoNew stamps, now bank notes. New Prison names
- rcarr 4y agoBrit here. I'm no royalist but by God, if you're going to have a monarch, I don't think you could have ever asked for more than Liz.
- lordleft 4y agoRIP. I've always believed that there was a place for constitutional monarchy in the world. As the world hurtles forward, having a tether to the past grounds us, reminds us that we are not ahistorical, but part of a continually unfolding story.
- seydor 4y agosometimes clinging for too long in the past causes violent movements
- pigtailgirl 4y ago-- Queen Elizabeth was cool in my books because - she was pretty quippy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgQpcC-ne64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgQpcC-ne64 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd1v2OX6vE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd1v2OX6vE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAD6P_y-ZAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAD6P_y-ZAo --
- dang 4y agoThis story of how she pranked a couple of hikers near Balmoral is priceless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw9g1Q74t4s#t=48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw9g1Q74t4s#t=48
- Beltalowda 4y agoApparently she did impressions of people (in private); including Ian Paisley. Would have loved to see that. In case you don't know what Paisley sounded like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ME45v08fQ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ME45v08fQ0
- criddell 4y agoDoes the royal family do anything non-ceremonial? Do the royals have real power?
- kzrdude 4y agoRegular meetings with the prime minister must count as having some power.
- snapetom 4y agoThe non-ceremonial stuff is PR and goodwill for the UK. She's essentially fostered economic cooperation between the Commonwealth for decades. That has been quite important and should not be understated. The American view that her duties are fluff is a lazy take.
- criddell 4y agoCan she set her own agenda, or does she essentially work for the elected government?
- snapetom 4y agoSets her own agenda, but I mean she holds weekly meetings with prime ministers. It's all closely coordinated.
- criddell 4y agoI saw that Prince George is third in line. I wonder how that would work if he ended up a child king? In that case, I’m guessing he would just be doing what he’s told to do.
- cgrealy 4y agoTechnically, I believe she can dissolve parliament in NZ and Australia.
- rafarios3 4y agoR.I.P. She was the real image of monarchy in the world for almost a century. God saves the Queen
- shp0ngle 4y agoFun fact about English royalty It’s technically easier for a muslim to become king/queen than for a Catholic. Catholics are the only ones who are banned by law to become English royals.
- secondcoming 4y agoWell yes, Catholics are/were considered to be loyal to Rome. But I'm pretty sure Tony Blair's government successfully repealed that restriction.
- shp0ngle 4y agoTechnically, Boris Johnson converted to Catholicism during his time as PM, while Blair did afterwards. So BoJo was the first English Catholic PM, I think
- ryanbrunner 4y agoI think they are taking about the restriction that excluded Catholics from the line of succession, which Blair did repeal.
- gumby 4y agoDrat, she had less than two years to go to pass Louis XIV. I have been a republican for most of my life and don't like to have her name in my passport. Nevertheless the first time we brought our young son to the UK we had a picture of him in front of Buckingham Palace (and I have the same picture of myself at that same location).
- drewg123 4y agoThis is an interesting world event, but I'm confused that it is considered on-topic here on HN. I had thought that non-technical news did not belong on HN. Can somebody please clarify the guidelines as to what is considered topical?
- lucozade 4y agoThe guidelines are linked at the bottom of every page including this one. In practice, pretty much any topic where people can remain civil is generally ok.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dang 4y agoOn-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- lucideer 4y agoOff-Topic: [...] If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. I'm aware commenting on moderation/appropriateness of submission is also outside of guidelines, but I think given the gravity of this event and the clear slant evident in top comments resultant from the difficulty of moderation "crap comments" it does seem worth mentioning that this doesn't feel like it belongs here in the HN community. Statement of my own biases: from a country that suffered the horrific hand of British colonial forces, both preceding and under Elizabeth's rule and finding the comments here repulsive. Positivity can be just as "crap" as ad hominem when expressed with such ignorance.
- dang 4y agoAll: please don't post flamebait, including ranting against monarchy or railing against "the nobility" like it's 1770. Such reflexive comments are not on topic here. We want curious conversation. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. This story is on topic because it's a major historical event and history has always been on topic here. If it doesn't produce an intellectually curious response in you, you're welcome to find something else that does—there are plenty of other things to read—but in that case please refrain from posting. Positive-empty comments aren't substantive either, but as pg pointed out way back when HN was getting started (https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html), those are benign. The comments we need to avoid are the malignant ones. Edit: by positive-empty I just meant comments like these: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32770030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32770030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769019 I'm not telling you guys to be royalists! I'm just asking you not to post crap comments, which this thread was filled with when I first saw it. We don't care what you're for or against, we just care about people using HN as intended. Edit 2: I think the problem is that this comment has outlived its usefulness at the top of the thread because the bottom of the barrel comments have mostly been moderated away, whether by user flags or by us. I'm going to unpin this and mark it offtopic now. Please don't post any more bottom-of-barrel comments!—and if you see some, please flag them.
- habnds 4y agois it a malignant comment to point out that the royalty is a malignant influence on the United Kingdom?
- glcheetham 4y agoWhy is it malignant? Monarchy is the foundation of the whole system. It goes from the top all the way from the bottom. That's like saying blood is a malignant influence on the body.
- kypro 4y agoAs a Brit I'm not a huge fan of the royal family on principle, but Queen Elizabeth has been such an excellent head of state for us you really can't fault her. People like to make out her life was easy and that it's not fair that she inherited such a privileged position, but I think the exact opposite. Her life seemed like living hell to me. Every day for the last 70 years she's had to serve this largely ungrateful country, and she did so without complaint. Even in her 90s she took her duties extremely seriously, and I respect the hell out of her for that. It was only a couple of days ago she invited our new PM to Balmoral Castle to form a government. She was clearly looking weak and it's been no secret that she's been struggling to fulfil her duties as Queen for a while, but even just two days before her death at the age of 96 she put on the performance that was expected of her. And she did this practically every day of her life. RIP. I doubt anyone will ever live up to her legacy. Despite all the problems I have with the royal family, I couldn't feel more pride that she was our Queen.
- linuxftw 4y ago
- evgen 4y agoRegardless of whether or not that statement is true the head of state has absolutely nothing to do with it.
- fit2rule 4y ago
- codeduck 4y agoThe Monarch is not responsible for that. That blame rests squarely on the Government and Parliament.
- dang 4y agoPlease don't post flamewar comments to HN. We ban accounts that do that—I've banned a thwack of them in this thread already, and we've had to ask you about this more than once before. Fortunately I didn't see other cases of that in your recent history. Please stick to posting within the site guidelines and things will be fine. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- mabbo 4y agoQueen of Canada for 44% of its existence[0]. My father remembers her coronation when he was a little kid- he's 75 now. Meanwhile my daughter is 6 months old and will likely live to see a half a dozen monarchs. [0]https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=%28June+2%2C+1953+to+now%29+%2F+%28July+1%2C+1867+to+now%29 https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=%28June+2%2C+1953+to+no...
- rcarmo 4y agoEven as a (still) EU citizen, I'm saddened by the news. One has to remember she took upon her shoulders a lot (essentialy from WWII to everything we've all gone through in recent memory, plus a lot of responsibility we can only guess at), and yet, by all accounts[1], was an amazing human being. [1] https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/1567894552744271872 https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/1567894552744271872
- danity 4y agoI greatly admired her dignity, strength, and no-nonsense approach over the years. RIP.
- gpmcadam 4y agoGod save the Queen
- shaftoe444 4y agoGod save the King.
- citilife 4y agoFun facts: - She ruled for 30% of the time since the American Revolution - She oversaw the largest reduction of landholdings of any empire in the history of the world. Notable because it was also one of the most peaceful transitions in history -- Australia, Canada, South Africa, Israel, Egypt, etc. - She oversaw the loss of Sterling the world reserve currency and the rise of another (the USD, EU).
- Tsarbomb 4y agoShe has been Queen of Canada for 45% of Canada's existence as an independent nation. Wild.
- citilife 4y agoI'm curious if they'll be splitting the monarchy between the children or keeping it consistent. Government could actually change quite a bit at this point across much of the west.
- bena 4y agoWho is "they" in this case? Technically there is no one who could authorize that split except the current monarch. I'd imagine things will continue just as they were
- peeters 4y agoI'm not sure what GP is speculating about either but as for succession, AFAIK sovereign countries in the commonwealth have their own rules. The head of state of Canada was not the Queen of England, it was the Queen of Canada, and theoretically nothing would stop the heir to those positions being different. In fact this was momentarily a topic of conversation in Canadian news outlets as the UK was talking about changing the rules of succession to be gender neutral and whether that would make for different heirs if the rest of commonwealth didn't change their rules in step. In practice that was moot since Prince William's firstborn was male.
- speedylight 4y agoWhen I saw the news of her death on Twitter I had a really uneasy feeling, I don’t know how to describe it… it’s like mortality slapped me across the face. From all indications she was a strong and noble queen. May she rest in peace.
- bzmrgonz 4y agoTHE QUEEN IS DEAD, LONG LIVE THE KING... HIS MAGESTY KING Charles Philip Arthur George!! (formerly Prince of Wales) THIS IS THE WAY.. to announce a Monarch's death guys!!!
- UncleOxidant 4y agoNot to mention that she was the last monarch to have any memory of WWII and served as an ambulance mechanic. Now that generation that remembered the horrors of fascism has mostly passed and we find ourselves in a period that seems to have many echos of the 1930s with a new rise of authoritarianism and fascism around the world.
- sofixa 4y ago> Not to mention that she was the last monarch to have any memory of WWII That's probably not true. There's the Dalai Lama and Simeon II of Bulgaria, who were minors but at least Simeon surely remembers (his father died in suspicious circumstances, he had an unconstitutional regency, and then he was dethroned, expelled and spent his life in exile). > Now that generation that remembered the horrors of fascism has mostly passed and we find ourselves in a period that seems to have many echos of the 1930s with a new rise of authoritarianism and fascism around the world It's honestly infuriating that with the wealth of information available at everyone's fingertips so many people are so easily making the same mistakes as a century earlier.
- tialaramex 4y agoIs the Dalai Lama a monarch? I see a resemblance in how monarchy works to how the Dalai Lama is chosen, but it's not obvious to me this is the same kind of thing.
- stakkur 4y agoAs Queen, she met 14 US Presidents (15 total) and 16 Prime Ministers (17 total). Whatever our feelings toward the anachronism of hereditary monarchies, she's been a participant in (and witness to) a significant amount of modern history.
- triceratops 4y ago"Her reign spanned 15 prime ministers starting with Winston Churchill, born in 1874, and including Ms Truss, born 101 years later in 1975." Unbelievable the history she was a witness to.
- sacrosancty 4y agoJust like every other 96 year old though, right?
- triceratops 4y agoHow many other 96 year olds have interacted weekly with all those prime ministers? And also met all the other significant figures in that time? Churchill faced down (figuratively) Hitler and Mussolini, which makes him a heroic and legendary figure. (He was also a racist monster). Until yesterday, she was a living person who had actually talked to him at length, regularly when he was alive. That's amazing to think about.
- sacrosancty 4y agoWell yes, but that's not what your parent comment said. Normal people watch the news and see all the prime ministers.
- triceratops 4y agoSeeing people and events on the news is nowhere near the same thing as being a witness to those people or events. You have to be on the scene of, or at least nearby, the events or speak first hand to the people who are involved. News reporters are witnesses to historical events as well. Their viewers are not. (This is putting aside what the legal profession might consider a "witness"). I said she was a witness to many important things, which is absolutely correct.
- pipeline_peak 4y ago“Everybody hates the President, everybody loves the Queen” - Jesus and Mary Chain
- alfl 4y agoGod bless her and long live the King.
- tus666 4y ago> His Majesty the King said Interesting there is no transition period or ceremony - he is just King.
- frutiger 4y agoThat’s the origin of the phrase “the King is dead, long live the King”.
- yrgulation 4y agoRegardless of what you think about the monarchy she was exemplary throughout her reign! May she rest in peace.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- oblib 4y agoI've never really understood how we can still have monarchies but I do believe Elizabeth was probably one the better ones that have sat on those thrones. A few years ago I looked into how much power she had and I was shocked. I was also shocked by how much that monarchy owns.
- kurupt213 4y agoYou were shocked that most of the UK’s Democratic institutions exist at her pleasure?
- oblib 4y agoYes I was, but that was just a part of it. The "United Kingdom" is huge. It's hard for me to imagine, for example, how Australians are still owned and controlled by that Monarchy. In practice it's not much different here since we still have the military draft but so far we can still fire a "President" via impeachment if they go crazy on us. The UK's "subjects" do not have that power, they are truly akin to chattel.
- kurupt213 4y agoJust wait until there’s a King who thinks he can do better than parliament.
- User23 4y agoIt depends on what you mean by "owns" too. My understanding is that legally the monarch (or is it the Crown, I know there is some kind of distinction) is the landlord of last resort for all of his or her holdings. In the case of the British monarch, that includes not just the isles, but the Commonwealth realms as well. Any property taxes in those realms are technically feudal rents. And yeah the British monarch's theoretical legal power is immense. For one thing the UK armed forces swear loyalty personally to the monarch, not to the government! The monarch could go to war with Parliament again and the military would be upholding their oath! The late Queen was a woman of impeccable public ethics though. In some sense it's more admirable for a person who is not bound by the law to choose to follow it scrupulously, which she did.
- sgt 4y agoCan we have a black ribbon on HN?
- techno_king 4y ago
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- sgjohnson 4y agoI wonder how many of the Commonwealth Realms are going to retain their monarchies. We might see Canada, Australia, New Zealand (and the rest of them) becoming republics.
- savryn 4y agoAll my rich feelings about this as a millennial woman are from watching Netflix's The Crown. I think that fact is absolutely incredible, and I'm just noticing how it works, the glimpses of feeling I get as I scroll news feed... images from real photos of the queen seamlessly woven in with flashes of scenes and emotions evoked from watching... Even emotional bits that I KNOW are not legit accurate/real.... My mind treats it all as one category anyway. The show is an elegant testament to what fiction does, to portray a woman's epic coming of age and into the power and duty of something much bigger than her, across a century. Our literature just doesn't have that grandness anymore, there are no literary novels by writers today about today that do this. Aesthetics there have changed in their scope somehow. It's all on our film and tv technology to refresh these themes of responsibility, inner steeliness, honor, sacrifice, respectability etc... to make what's old new again. I'm certain before the show I cared nothing, and after it, I care a lot.
- aa-jv 4y agoYou've learned something from fictional propaganda. Are you now prepared to face the truth of her reign and the immense suffering it caused for millions of people?
- roca 4y agoYou seem to be saying that if she had not reigned, that suffering would not have occurred. That seems unlikely.
- aa-jv 4y agoNo, I'm saying the suffering happened because of her reign. She was the direct cause - as a heinously racist, totalitarian monarch sovereign - of endless policies that caused calamity and suffering across the globe. There are literally millions of people who see her as the criminal she truly was.
- ErikVandeWater 4y ago
- rexreed 4y agoWhat is the criteria for when a Black Stripe is added to the top of HN in the case of a notable death? Are the criteria set or is it arbitrary?
- mrguyorama 4y agoIt's usually reserved for "Important people in tech" plus or minus whoever dang and the people who actually own Y Combinator care about. HN is NOT an unbiased, unaffiliated, open forum. They make no effort to hide that fact, but so many people here put it on a pedestal instead of understanding that it's just orange reddit with good moderation.
- deadbeefq 4y agoThat's a shame. I'm no monarchist but appreciated her service. RIP.
- w10-1 4y agoI, too, am sad. I am deeply attracted to the model of the servant leader and the hero. I'm particularly attached to leaders who make the best of a bad situation, in her case the retreat of the British Empire. I think courage in retreat is much more rare than courage in victory, and might bring more value to society. My (our) relationship to Queen Elizabeth seems to stem less from the history or even events, and more from her extensive media depictions, mainly movies and series of late. Many of them focus on her as long-suffering: beset by crises she cannot really control, both emotional and political. Her stalwart response turns out to be the best available - at once non-intrusive, but pointing the way out. When she speaks, it is not to tell people what to do, or what is right and wrong, but to summon our better nature. I understand this attachment may be seen as emotionally immature and even regressive. In her case, it seems benign. However, something like these sentiments underlies people's attachments to other leaders who seem disruptive to societies and companies. Modeling heroes is in many ways deeper than even learning a trade, and yet we seem to leave it to chance. Can do better? Can we mourn Queen Elizabeth II without falling prey to false gods?
- rurban 4y agoInterestingly the details of the planned operation London Bridge https://www.politico.eu/article/queen-elizabeth-death-plan-britain-operation-london-bridge/ https://www.politico.eu/article/queen-elizabeth-death-plan-b... were posted today on some British news site before her death, when all others confirmed her stable health. Some insiders obviously were in the know earlier today.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
- netsharc 4y agoBut that article is dated September 2021. The Guardian also wrote about it in 2017: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens... The articles probably landed on the top 10 list of most read articles (due to Google hits) after the Buckingham Palace statement this morning that the doctors are recommending continuous monitoring of her health, which probably was British understatement for "Her situation is bad".
- rurban 4y agoYes, that's a good explanation
- yuan43 4y agoThe Wikipedia article on the British Monarchy is (as expected) informative: > The monarch and their immediate family undertake various official, ceremonial, diplomatic and representational duties. As the monarchy is constitutional, the monarch is limited to functions such as bestowing honours and appointing the prime minister, which are performed in a non-partisan manner. The monarch is also Head of the British Armed Forces. Though the ultimate executive authority over the government is still formally by and through the royal prerogative, these powers may only be used according to laws enacted in Parliament and, in practice, within the constraints of convention and precedent. The Government of the United Kingdom is known as His (Her) Majesty's Government. I wasn't aware that the monarch appointed the prime minister, but here you have the last one the Queen made: > Liz Truss has became Britain’s next prime minister after meeting with Queen Elizabeth II, who asked her to form a new government. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/6/uks-johnson-bows-out-as-pm-liz-truss-to-be-appointed-by-queen https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/6/uks-johnson-bows-out... The Wikipedia article later notes that prime minister appointment appears to fall into the ceremonial category: > The sovereign has the power to appoint the prime minister. In accordance with unwritten constitutional conventions, the monarch appoints the individual who commands the support of the House of Commons, usually the leader of the party or coalition that has a majority in that House. The prime minister takes office by attending the monarch in a private audience, and after "kissing hands" that appointment is immediately effective without any other formality or instrument.[15] The sovereign also has the power to dismiss the prime minister, but the last time this power was exercised was in 1834, when William IV dismissed Lord Melbourne; since then, prime ministers have only left office upon their resignation, which they are expected to offer to the monarch upon losing their majority in the House of Commons.
- erehweb 4y agoCould there be any code that breaks as a result of this? Can't think of anything, but wondering if there is something deep in some Civil Service script.
- boffinism 4y agoBet someone will be rooting out hard-coded strings with incorrect pronouns in for years to come.
- yotamoron 4y ago
- j0hnyl 4y agoGenerally I agree with the sentiment, but at the same time this is impactful, because this is a person that has been in the public eye for people's entire lives, so it presents as somewhat of a shock. It's a reminder that the only constant is change and that death comes for us all... at least that's why I think many people have a strong reaction to the news. My personal reaction is "meh".
- OJFord 4y agoShe succeeded her father, George VI, if that's what you meant.
- dividefuel 4y ago> Do you even remember the name of the king that queen elizabeth inherited? When he died? I'm not at all invested in the royal family, but I think this question actually makes the point of why it's a big deal: she's been the queen for such a long time that very few people alive can remember a time when she wasn't the queen. It marks the end of a long era.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jbotz 4y agoSymbols are important, even to history. As for how major a historical event Elizabeth II's passing is, only history can tell and history tells it's stories with a delay, so we'll have to see. It could mark the beginning of the end of the monarchy in the UK, for example, which in turn could coincide with other major changes.
- mirciulica 4y agoLong live The King!
- tannhaeuser 4y agoNot a Brit, but my respect for the queen has always been tremendous, representing the British monarchy and being a public figure for all my life and seemingly forever, such that her death seems unreal, reminding us that she was a human being and nice old lady after all. I was even hesitant to turn on the news. RIP.
- zeruch 4y agoI've always been an anti-monarchist/posh class in terms of the sense of entitlement and inherited perks while "in government", but I also feel as a leader QE2 was an unusually astute 'Monarch' (in quotes as she was a very different monarch, both in actual power and in tone from say a Sultan Bolkiah, the KSD, or Sultan bin Tarik) and that there is now a bit of an informal power vacuum in the UK, which will have network effects beyond their borders.
- xwdv 4y agoWith the Pandemic, and the death of the Queen, and several other events, we can now say that the beginning of the 2020s marks the true cultural beginning of the 21st Century. These times will look increasingly different from whatever came before.
- mavu 4y agoThe Queen is dead, long live the ... King? Queen? What?
- AlbertCory 4y agoI'm American, and I loved the Queen. May she rest in peace and may her record of service never be broken.
- rdm_blackhole 4y agoThis is not a rant nor a flamebait. I am a commonwealth citizen and a staunch republican. I am against monarchies by principle. Unfortunately the king/queen of England is also the Supreme Governor of the Church of England which goes against my principles as well since I am an atheist. I do not wish ill will on the royal family, but as a humanist who believes that every man, woman and child born on this planet is equal in rights, I cannot accept nor promote a system of governance that deems certain people to be above others by simply being born in the right family. I am sorry for the loss caused by her death and I feel sad for her loved ones but that loss should not stop people form pushing for the creation of genuine republics in the countries within the commonwealth.
- seydor 4y agoI think certain commonwealth countries will rethink whether they want Charles to be their official head of state. With Elizabeth dead, the memory of british empire becomes much more faded
- mmastrac 4y agoFor those of us in the colonies, this is complicated. For better or worse, HRH QEII brought an element of stability to our government. I believe that she could have handed off power to her son sooner, but I understand that she was probably torn on that. She's probably the best monarch we could have hoped for, and any future monarch won't be able to live up to her standard.
- lampshades 4y ago911 days after COVID was declared a pandemic.
- major505 4y agoI'm not even brit and I`m sad to see her go. She inspired people in the best and the worst, and I wish other leaders took their job as serious as her. In a fast changing world she was a constant, always doing her best. It's like a small Light Beacon in the world had been turned off.
- nobodyandproud 4y agoMy deepest condolences. Years ago, I remember reading about how her family remained during WW2 while it was being bombed, against what was certainly “sensible” advice, and sharing in the hardship that everyone else was going through. Even generations and culturally separated, this sort of shared hardship left a lasting impression on me; and she certainly represented the best of the UK.
- basedgod 4y agoGood riddance. The world is rid of a horrible person who has done horrible things, and who has never once tried to do the right thing in the face of adversity. She could have done so much more, spoken out against so many atrocities, in her own family and Britain's role in the world in general. She could have attempted to use the last vestiges of monarchical power - likely ending the monarchy in the process - and stopped Brexit, or this turmoil that has ensued because of it. But she chose not to do any of this. Because the "prestige" of this disgusting tradition was worth more to her than the lives of any of the citizens she "rules" (symbolically) over. It would have been hard to have had a worse monarch than her.
- nly 4y agoHard to see how she could have "stopped Brexit" given that there was a referendum on the issue. The British people reaped what they showed with that one.
- dang 4y agoWe've banned this account for posting flamewar comments. That's not allowed here, and you've been doing it repeatedly (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32574659 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32574659). If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- confidantlake 4y agoThere are countless comments praising her that are allowed to stand. She is a historical figure, there will be people disagreeing. Labeling comments that criticizes her as "flamewar" and banning their accounts isn't enabling curious discussion, it is creating an echo chamber that protects the status quo.
- muzani 4y agoIf you look at that account specifically, they've been posting only flamebait on HN, not curious discussion.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- rpmisms 4y agoThe word "Majesty" holds meaning that few people today contemplate. Her life was lived in complete service to her people, and was inextricably linked to the nation she ruled. That's a relic of a bygone era, and I think we lost something on the way.
- AngeloAnolin 4y agoWith the transfer of the crown to King (Prince) Charles, is there an explainer article that provides a comprehensive information on who is deemed the next in line in multiple scenarios (i.e. assume next in line dies, the heir/heiress are incapable, challenging someone's ascension to the throne, etc). This would make for a good read and understanding of how the royalty works. On the topic, I think what Queen Elizabeth has done despite of the challenges within her sovereignty is being a living example on how to rule and govern, without negatively interfering with how the affairs and progress of the state needs to be carried out.
- jbotz 4y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_British_throne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_British_thro...
- Bubble_Pop_22 4y agoWill Putin go to the Funeral? This person has entertained relations with the Soviet Union first and then Russia for 70years. Allies against the Nazism . It’s peak tension between the West and Russia now but maybe a impromptu occasion to finally get to Peace
- junon 4y agoNot sure why this is downvoted. Really curious of the Kremlin's response, given the juxtaposition of the history and current events (UK bring an early and strong militaristic supporter of Ukraine).
- btheshoe 4y agoI wonder what the odds are on the monarchy being abolished within, say, the next few decades.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- thevania 4y ago
- dang 4y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y agoIt feels strange when someone, who has been here since seemingly forever, dies. As it was recently discussed here [0], You have a sad feeling for a moment, then it passes. [1] [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32252198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32252198 [1]: https://everything2.com/title/You+have+a+sad+feeling+for+a+moment%252C+then+it+passes https://everything2.com/title/You+have+a+sad+feeling+for+a+m...
- xbar 4y agoI believe we have witnessed the passing of a truly great human being, born into power within a system that is completely unjust. She could have disrupted her society, but instead she did her best to maintain the culture while helping as many as she could and harming as few as possible. I am an American, and I am grateful to have been among her contemporaries in a way that I cannot say that about any other British monarch.
- tehbeard 4y agoAs tests of a "new" government go, the implementation of Operation "London Bridge" (Protocol related to the period of mourning, state funeral and coronation) is certainly going to be an interesting one to watch unfold. With the track record of successive Tory governments however... Interesting for perhaps the wrong reasons. Unlikely to unite the nation either.
- anshumankmr 4y agoRest in Peace
- hnarn 4y agoNow begins the crucial and cringeworthy task of C-level executives (and those mimicking them) all over the world posting about this on LinkedIn and emailing all employees regardless of how many of those receiving the message have any connection to the UK or the Commonwealth. I’m not saying this doesn’t matter, of course it does. It’s sad like any death is, and it’s meaningful to many people. But there are many kings and queens out there, and just because this one meant a lot to you doesn’t mean you should start roleplaying a member of the British nobility. The only decent and respectful way to approach this for all parts involved in my mind is to acknowledge it, pay your condolences and move on. That’s the respectful and sane common ground we can all agree on. As soon as you start making business decisions based on this for a global company (like global days of mourning, for example) you are, in my humble opinion, treading on thin ice. This type of cultural hegemony kills the employer-employee relationship. Be professional. Be reserved.
- Hallucinaut 4y agoI'm echoing what others have said but as a Commonwealth citizen turned British citizen with a grandmother who was the same age but died last year, I can't help but feel an extended member of my family has passed. I am not a monarchist by any means, but I felt an attachment and affection for the Queen that made me value the institution. I know she led a privileged life but ceaseless service and consistency across literal generations is, to my view, no easy ride. Rest in peace
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- smarri 4y agoI was in London during Covid, and the Queen's Speech to the nation during the pandemic was a pivitol and powerful moment. "We should take comfort that while we may have more still to endure, better days will return: we will be with our friends again; we will be with our families again; we will meet again."
- greenthrow 4y ago
- pigeons 4y agoI don't understand why all criticism is being considered flamebait. Yes some of it is flamebait, but the worship is some pretty juicy bait too.
- dang 4y agoNot all criticism. I posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 because the thread was filling quickly with bottom-of-the-barrel stuff at the time. Edit: I mean comments like these (chosen at random): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769043 Once that sort of comments were no longer so prominent, people thought I was asking them to say nice things about the monarchy. It took me a while to realize what was causing the misunderstanding, and once I did I demoted my post. It was basically a victim of its own success.
- k__ 4y agoDo you think this will break the Commonwealth?
- cgrealy 4y agoProbably not, but it will almost certainly spark renewed conversation in countries like Australia and NZ about becoming republics (but still Commonwealth members).
- divbzero 4y agoQueen Elizabeth II’s first official photograph from 70 years ago: https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/18050875/queen-first-official-photograph-70-years-countdown-platinum-jubilee/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/18050875/queen-first-offic... Queen Elizabeth II’s last official photograph from 2 days ago: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11185023/The-Queen-meets-incoming-Prime-Minister-Liz-Truss.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11185023/The-Queen-...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- andrewstuart 4y agoQueen Elizabeth served in the armed forces during World War 2 as a truck mechanic. That's something that has always struck me as indicative of her character.
- jeff-davis 4y agoWhat points in history depended on her words or actions? (Sincere question about her legacy; not questioning whether she was important.)
- imranq 4y agoAs someone who has no idea what this monarchy means or what powers it has in the UK government, I was wondering if there was a good resource to learn more?
- P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul 4y agoI'd consider her equal in relevance to Kim Kardashian. For some quality entertainment, read through the comments pretending they're talking about Kim Kardashian. "I've never considered myself a ['celebrity worshipper'] but... I just burst into tears unexpectedly [upon hearing of Kim's death]."
- badcppdev 4y agoI am sad for her passing. Was tuned into the news all afternoon waiting for the announcement even thought the writing was clearly on the wall and the announcement still made me tear up. But for all the talk of duty, morals, and leadership I saw none of that in the Queen. I saw a figurehead. Shaking hands and listening but what did she contribute? Definitely not morals or direction. People talk of her speech in 2020 during Covid in which she spoke about WW2 and how we need to stand together. And for me that just makes me feel that she could have made a huge difference in the global struggles that we are going to face coping with climate change. She could have made a real difference last year or 10 years ago. Or 40 years ago. Her son has been more vocal about caring for the environment. Is it too much to hope that he will spend some of his influence swaying the new UK PM away from her reactionary pro-fossil fuel agenda. As the climate crisis starts to feel more and more like a existential threat is it foolish to hope for an ally. The Queen is dead. Long live the King
- xg15 4y agoI honestly wonder how much actual options she had in her position. The office of king/queen in the UK is both a cornerstone of the country and severely restricted by centuries of history. It might be that her taking any specific kind of political position might have been seen as damage to the democratic system of the uk.
- crazygringo 4y ago> I saw a figurehead. Shaking hands and listening but what did she contribute? Definitely not morals or direction. But that's her role -- as figurehead. The job is to be a symbol, not a leader. Leading is left to the democratically elected politicians, and for good reason. And it's not the new king's job to sway the PM. It's literally the opposite of his job. And if you don't think she contributed morals? Her behavior was impeccable. She contributed morals leading by example.
- dvzk 4y agoIs the monarch just a figurehead, or a failsafe? I know nothing about UK politics, but sometimes I wonder if sovereign influence would re-emerge if democracy or society were to fail.
- MKais 4y agoPeople are like a flock of sheep looking for a shepherd. This is the business model of all royalty/democracies around the world. Humanity needs an alpha male/female to lead the flock because it would have a better chance of survival than if everyone went their separate ways. Leadership and other corporate BS teaches nothing more than this truth: Ignore your own doubts, have a straight face and lead the herd where you want. The queen and her family cost less than 2$/year/brit, less than a stupid game on the app store.
- dctoedt 4y agoFrom the NY Times: "Her personal behavior, unlike that of most of her family, was beyond reproach, never tainted by even the remotest hint of scandal. Elizabeth offered her subjects a mirror of the high moral standards that many might aspire to but most generally fail to attain." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/08/world/europe/queen-elizabeth-dead.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/08/world/europe/queen-elizab...
- handoflixue 4y agoI'm not saying she was a bad person, just that this praise is obviously ridiculously over-wrought. You simply can't reign as Queen of England for 70 years "without even the remotest hint of scandal" Just last year there was the Guardian investigation that suggested she was trying to hide the true extent of her wealth: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/07/revealed-queen-lobbied-for-change-in-law-to-hide-her-private-wealth https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/07/revealed-que... (I've seen other sources disputing it, but one can't argue that this is at least a hint of scandal)
- gizajob 4y agoAt the same time though, her face is printed on the money. There's wealth and then there's levels far beyond and transcending wealth...The Guardian just loves to stir division, panic, resentment, and chaos – it's all the modern Marxist can do.
- abanksy 4y agoLet’s have a black banner please
- dr_dshiv 4y agoPlease read Charles’ book “Harmony: a new way of looking at the world.” Like it or not, we have a philosopher king.
- appleflaxen 4y agoGreat. Now the stock market is going to crash and we are going to slide into a global depression.
- xg15 4y agoFor some reason it seems extremely surreal to me that England now will have a king again. "The King of Great Britain" sounds like something out of a history movie, not present.
- avidphantasm 4y agoAs an American watching with dismay over the past five years or so, I can see some virtue in having a non-partisan head of state (realizing that that does not mean the Royal Family is beyond ideology). Not sure how that would work in our republic, but I feel like it would help with national unity during divisive political times.
- Barrin92 4y ago>Not sure how that would work in our republic here in Germany we have what is probably the most common setup in republics, a chancellor and a president as the ceremonial head of state.
- alewi481 4y agoOut of curiosity, how visible is the President of Germany in the media and everyday life? Are the doings of the President talked about and reported on? As an outsider from the United States, I'm aware that you have one, but they get almost no exposure here in the media. People here with a passing familiarity with international current events could probably tell you who the Chancellor of Germany is, but far fewer could name the President.
- Barrin92 4y agothe president isn't very visible. Probably quite a few Germans who aren't politically interested couldn't tell you who holds the office. But nonetheless when there's big social disagreements, anything extremely divisive or a crisis the president usually will have something to say, to unify people somewhat. Ideally the president is sort of like the moral consciousness or representative of the country as a whole. Also it depends on the person. Gauck our last president who was a Lutheran Pastor was quite outspoken on moral questions or democratic issues and somewhat of a divisive figure, the current president is more of a former career politician and much less so.
- junon 4y agoNot very at all. Nobody talks about the president. The chancellor is who is viewed as the leader of the government, and who is talked about regularly. President is hardly mentioned - anecdotally, never.
- samhickmann 4y ago
- dang 4y agoHN is about more than tech and startups: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. That's been so ever since pg changed the name of this place to Hacker News 15 years ago. Btw, your account isn't banned, but your submissions are getting killed because HN's software thinks you're running afoul of the rule against using the site primarily for promotion—see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html: "Please don't use HN primarily for promotion. It's ok to submit your own stuff occasionally, but the primary use of the site should be for curiosity." Those are very different motivations! Our software detects that sort of submission history and starts filtering the posts once the percentage of own-posts is too high. IIRC, I warned you that this might happen in an email a week ago. On HN, the idea is for people to submit stories that they ran across and personally found intellectually interesting, not because they have something to promote. It's fine to post your own work, as long as it's interspersed with interesting posts from unrelated sources. But when an account only submits promotionally, it feels like they're not participating as a community member, and HN users notice this and flag the posts. It's not in your interest to post like this—the audience will eventually start using unkind words like "spam" and emailing us with complaints. What to do instead: build up a track record of interesting submissions from unrelated sources, and intersperse your own articles with those. The software considers submission histories adaptively, so if you do that, your own-posts will eventually stop getting filtered. If you dig up interesting things from a variety of places, things people haven't run into before, you'll be perceived as a community contributor rather than someone trying to market something. Particularly good are stories on out-of-the-way topics that rarely or never get attention. The best submissions are the ones that can't be predicted from any existing sequence: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=can%27t%20predict%20sequence%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor....
- samhickmann 4y agoFrom YOUR guidelines: "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." but there we are: a dozen of posts about Queen Elizabeth II's death on HN...
- Guthur 4y agoAnd the last meaningful act was to swear in Truss, not how I'd like to bookend my legacy :)
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- heavyheavy 4y ago
- _ph_ 4y agoHer watch has ended. Not being a citizen of the commonwealth, I have no political beef in this, I can only admire her for holding her office for a longer time than most here (including me) have lived. Being the formal head of once a colonial empire turning into a commonwealth with these days most of the member nations rightfully going their own way, she was an important participant in the history of hundreds of millions of people. Her role was one of constance over a long time in which the world changed a lot. She was a truck driver in WW2 and became queen not too long after that considering she was queen till today. Now an era ends and a new one begins.
- sdfjkl 4y agoImagine being groomed to do this job from birth, with no real way to opt out[1]. You wanted to breed horses, become a blacksmith or start a business? Get that nonsense out of your head, you're a princess! Then, when you're 25, your daddy dies aged only 56 and after a rather brief period of mourning you get pushed into taking his job in a pompous ceremony. Now you're going to be doing this until you die. No retirement! I bet there were times where Lilibet just wanted to go to her room and cry. I wouldn't have wanted her job for all the wealth and power that came with it. [1] Well, you could make a big scandal about marrying an American divorcee, but that didn't go down too well for the last guy.
- scaramanga 4y agoMonarchs all over Europe bowed out of this bullshit after WW2, so it can definitely be done. The UK monarchs rebranded themselves as "the royal family", at considerable effort and expense, so that they could carry on "enjoying" their lifestyle. Whatever enjoyment might mean in this context, in terms of the personal enjoument of one woman, who knows, and I'm not sure why I'd care either.
- skissane 4y ago> Now you're going to be doing this until you die. No retirement! If she had wanted to, at some point, abdicate in favour of Charles, that could have been arranged. It would have required a special Act of the UK Parliament (following the prior example of His Majesty's Declaration of Abdication Act 1936) [0] – and probably also supporting legislation in the other Commonwealth Realms (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc) – but no doubt the governments of the Commonwealth Realms would have obliged. It was her own decision that she did not want that. I would not be surprised if, in another 10 or 15 years, King Charles III makes a different decision, but we shall see. In recent years, monarchs abdicating due to advanced age has become rather common – the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Luxembourg, Japan, among others. [0] http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/1936/ukpga_19360003_en.pdf http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/1936/ukpga_19360003_e...
- twblalock 4y agoThe only recent abdication in UK history (and maybe the only voluntary one ever?) put her father and herself in line to the throne, dragged the monarchy and the rest of the UK's system of government through a major public scandal, and caused serious damage to the royal family. Because of all that, I doubt she would have considered abdicating herself.
- bot41 4y agoI'll need to thread lightly before I get banned by Dang for not loving the british queen! If we observed monkeys and saw that one was showered with gifts and jewellery their whole lives because they were offspring of two other particular monkeys.. we would chuckle at that. Not for being the strongest, tallest, biggest, smartest or best at something. Just for existing.
- ellen364 4y agoThere’s a lot of debate in this thread about the rights and wrongs of monarchy, the extent to which the Queen chose to serve, and so on. There isn’t much context about Britain as it was when she became Queen. Since I used to be a historian, I figured I’d throw some in. Princess Elizabeth wasn’t originally expected to become Queen. Her father was only the second son of King George V and was not expected to become King either. But, in a move that was deeply shocking at the time, the older son, King Edward VIII, abdicated in 1936 so that he could marry a divorcee. The abdication crisis was complicated and further complicated by the Commonwealth. The members of the Commonwealth, all of whom had Edward VIII as their king, had to agree to the abdication. The government of the Irish Free State, as it was then known, used the opportunity to dramatically reduce the role of the King. Elizabeth’s father became George VI and she became the heir presumptive. At this point (1936) it still wasn’t clear that she would become Queen. She was just 10 years old and if her parents had a son, he would leapfrog his older sisters and become the heir. Edward VIII had become Duke of Windsor after the abdication and he remained something of a thorn in the sides of the royal family and British government. There were fights about money and titles and whether the Duke would be allowed to return to the UK. There were bad feelings all round. In 1937 the Duke visited Nazi Germany, which infuriated the British government. During World War II he was considered to be pro-Nazi and was for a while under surveillance by the Americans. Things had in some ways calmed down by 1952, when George VI died. But the UK was still intensely feeling the effects of World War II. There were several financial crises, the country’s debt was enormous and rationing didn’t end until 1954. The British Empire had also continued to fall apart. Today many people consider that a good thing, with countries gaining independence and people gaining self-determination. But from a monarch’s perspective, losing an empire is a pretty terrible failure. I’ve missed out all sorts of things because this was already so long. But that, roughly speaking, was the situation when Princess Elizabeth became Queen Elizabeth II in 1952.
- soueuls 4y agoI am not British but I see monarchy positively. She was indeed an interesting character, witty, frail yet fierce, out of this time and truly royal. It’s definitely the end of an era, that makes me a little bit nostalgic. I have been thinking about this for the past two hours, rewatching the speech she gave at 21. She was hesitant, unsure, obviously unprepared for the death of her father, yet she became a queen at the blink of an eye. One of my favorite speech, very human, a young lady suddenly realize the weight of her destiny, pledge to put her life, her only life, aside for the rest of her life. She spent the next 70 years being the Queen, no matter what, never complained, never showed any sign of weaknesses, relentlessly performing diplomatic duties. Being right for 70 years is difficult. I think she genuinely tried.
- droptablemain 4y agoMay she be the last of her kind.
- etothepii 4y agoGod save the king.
- NaturalPhallacy 4y agoThe Queen ruled since my dad was born, a fixture of my life if not an influential one here in the colonies. Her dying feels so strange. Like if the moon just went away one day.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 4y agoI gotta admit that it is a bit weird to see british royalty being so heavily privileged that they even get special moderation treatment here on HN to protect them (?) from any negativity, or rather stop negativity about them. I'm not keen on the idea of using this submission to flame the Queen, I obviously agree with the general rule of avoiding flamebait, what I mean is that other HN submissions on the deaths of people certainly didn't get this special treatment. It is also not at all enforced in both directions when looking at the obviously and comically over the top positive comments of low quality which contain no real substance. Edit: I used the wording "stop negativity" which might be misleading, since (as far as I am aware) no comments are being deleted. What I'm talking about is moderation giving out a lot of warnings and keeping a closer watch on "flamebait" violations than I've ever seen before on any submission.
- mlindner 4y agoAs a general rule, you don't criticize people who've just died. That's just common courtesy.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 4y agoIt seems like you misunderstood or are misrepresenting what I wrote. While we have these kinds of submissions pretty regularly on HN, this is the first time in multiple years I've seen a reminder about this under almost every single negative comment and every comment containing critique. The reminder about the rule was even expanded to the whole concept of royalty. My point is not that speaking ill of the dead should be encouraged, my point is the selective enforcement of that sentiment with only a special, priviliged group benefitting from it. Edit after consideration: Whether criticizing the dead or not criticizing the dead should follow a general rule, I can't and won't comment on.
- tempalotesc 4y agoI agree with you. I just think there is too much hype in the whole Royal Family than what it’s worth for. (Sorry if this offends some Brits but being from one of the colonized countries I strongly feel this is not worth it)
- jollybean 4y agoThe Queen is dead, long live the King!
- talideon 4y agoAs an Irishman, while our two countries might not have always gotten along well, she always came across as a good person who took her role seriously and executed as well as anyone could. RIP.
- mcbishop 4y ago> From commoners to heads of state, the queen has been known to smooth over embarrassing situations with a gentle quip or two. According to Blaikie, at a Buckingham Palace Garden Party, a woman was chatting with the queen when her cell phone embarrassingly started ringing. “You’d better answer that,” the queen told her. “It might be someone important.” > Then there was the notorious incident that occurred during Charles and Madame de Gaulle’s state visit to Buckingham Palace. “Somebody asked Madame de Gaulle what she was most looking forward to in her retirement, which was imminent,” Blaikie writes. “Not speaking English much at all, she replied, ‘A penis.’ Consternation reigned for some time but it was the queen herself who came to the rescue. ‘Ah, happiness,’ she said.” https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/08/behind-queen-elizabeths-surprising-wit https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/08/behind-queen-elizab...
- the_lucifer 4y agoAw, may she rest in peace. :(
- ActionHank 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoThe Madame de Gaulle story is apocryphal: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/happiness-envy/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/happiness-envy/
- bergenty 4y agoLong live the king.
- gadflyinyoureye 4y agoFirst of all, let’s give a round of applause to Charles. Few thought he would be king. Many assumed Liz was holding on just to spite him. You did it, Chucky! Second, now is a good time to figure out if Reptoids can hold their shape when dead. I’ve never seen a definitive answer in the literature.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- theirishrover 4y agohttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S7woEXovruc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S7woEXovruc
- theirishrover 4y ago
- theirishrover 4y ago
- talideon 4y ago
- RRRA 4y agoNow let's get rid of this imperial family in all of the commonwealth and let the UK decide for themselves...
- gstipi 4y agoThe Queen is dead. I've dreaded writing these words for quite some time now, because to me, she's become the prototype of someone who hasn't been quite alive for some time now, but still embodied the spirit of a nation - a nation arguably in perceived decline, but still somehow held together by the almost poetic and optimistic belief that as long as the Queen is alive, the nation will prosper or, at the very least, persevere. At the same time, I feel relief that even the Queen may die, and life still goes on. May she rest in peace. The Queen is dead.
- fwip 4y agoLots of people, especially in former colonies, are justifiably glad to hear of her passing. For instance, the people in Kenya or India whose family survived the war crimes inflicted by the British under her reign.
- sizzle 4y agoThank you for speaking up. Diversity of perspectives is important to society.
- chamberecho 4y agoNo it isn't!
- aa-jv 4y agoThose of us who suffered under the White Australia (White Stolen Generation) fiasco are also glad to see this heinous war criminal perish. She was a significant component in Western imperialist desire and should have been prosecuted for crimes against humanity multiple times over.
- Gatsky 4y agoThis is the most disappointing thread I’ve seen on HN in a long time. A large number of accounts have been banned and rightly so. There are lots of good and interesting comments, but also lots of comments dancing on her grave. This is one of the lowest, meanest and fundamentally uninteresting things one can engage in.
- lucideer 4y agoI would say there are many things lower one can engage in than commenting on an internet forum on a news event, not least, presiding over decades of colonial terror and genocide. It might be worth considering that comments you find offensive due to their apparent disrespect might be justified in their anger in some way you can't directly relate to.
- Gatsky 4y agoShe's dead. She has ceased to be. If you think this is an appropriate time to trot out grievances, which I'm sure are all well justified, then we have a different understanding of common decency.
- lucideer 4y agoThe subject wasn't any grievances of mine (I had trotted none before your comment) - the subject is those lavishing praise. You imply trotting out grievances would not be "commonly decent", but what of the opposite? Praising someone who has brought so much pain and suffering to the world? Is that what you consider decent?
- Bakary 4y agoCommon decency is a concept most often wielded to increase social control and to stifle challenges to social norms. Where was decency when the monarchy was plundering and altering the lives of millions? Westerners are generally able to understand this idea, because they are for instance receptive to criticism of Japanese revisionism and loyalty to the Emperor. Yet there's a mental block when it comes to applying this concept to Western monarchies.
- Karupan 4y agoAs the most visible monarch of our times, I do wonder if the % of world population that will mourn her (either as colonizers or allies), will be greater than the % that will bade good riddance (as the colonized).
- zoom6628 4y agoWorld has lost a person of great decency and stability in a time of increasing nationalism and unhinged politicians. Regardless views on monarchy and “the firm’s “ happenings the Queen was a standout beacon of loyalty and commitment that we all could learn from and whom commanded utmost respect from everyone. I was born in UK but grew up in NZ and now I live in HK and wherever I have been over the decades the Queen is known, recognised and respected. She totally lived her role and the world is a better place for it.
- VictorPath 4y ago> World has lost a person of great decency and stability in a time of increasing nationalism Yaa it was real decent of her to pin medals on the parachute regiment who shot down unarmed men in Derry protesting about the internment of political prisoners in concentration camps without trial. But they were "increasing nationalism" (against the nationalism of the foreign English occupiers) so it's ok.
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y agoYea we plebs like to think we’d do better than heads of state when they do terrible things because the pressure of political situations and survival are sooo beneath us.
- IndigoIncognito 4y agoI did laugh when I found out the news, not sure why, I did have a small existential crisis after
- IndigoIncognito 4y agoThe [Dead] comments on this post are wild.
- junon 4y agoBut entirely unsurprising, unfortunately.
- Rackedup 4y ago
- VerminOctopus1 4y agoLots of effusive praise in this thread. When I heard the news, I cheered, and felt giddy for a little bit, then the feeling subsided. I’m Canadian and have been forced to observe this bizarre institution my whole life. Seeing any bit of the monarchy and the British empire chip away feels good.
- NomDePlum 4y agoWhilst I sympathise with people's personal feelings relating to this death it makes me really sad that one privileged and utterly protected and cocooned life has this impact whilst daily we walk by malnourished people on the streets without a second thought. And that is in the first world countries, god help those in the 3rd world countries.
- kldx 4y agoInteresting take. Do you believe humans have always had a tendency for apathy to the less fortunate or is it a modern trend to be more apathetic as one gets more self-sufficient in a society that encourages individualism?
- NomDePlum 4y agoNever really thought too deeply about it but I would guess there is a correlation with increasing mobility (commuting, etc) meaning more exposure to this sort of thing and less likelihood to feel responsibility or necessity to act.
- Siira 4y agoIn Farsi we have a saying, “All the troubles are for the lame.” Bad things are correlated. It’s not fair, but true. People with the most merit are statistically the ones with the most undeserved privilege. Consider the extreme case; unborn people are the most unlucky, and yet nobody even thinks about them much.
- moomoo11 4y agoAs someone whose people and grandparents suffered under British rule, really don’t care. British imperialism is a bloodstain that I’m not gonna just forget about because the smile behind the menace has passed.
- sizzle 4y agoThis is an important take, the bloody legacy of British rule over India is still painful for many here and their loved ones/ancestors that suffered, died defending their nation, or were enslaved.
- Onewildgamer 4y agoMy blood boils everytime I remember how the brits cut off thumbs of my people, the silk weavers. People underestimate the atrocities done by British empire, one tiny example is when they chopped off thumbs of handloom weavers to stop the Indian business spread within India in order to sell their goods from Manchester produced from the stolen cotton from India again, my clan of people were the silk weavers since more than a millennium and were wiped out of existence. Even now I sometimes hear the horror stories from my Grandpa who lost a lot of kin and daily bread due to the greedy pigs and jealous barbarians that the empire was. The words imperialism and colonialism don't do justice for the horrors they brought upon us. I generally have empathy towards the dead, but for this incident, I hardly care.
- shmde 4y ago
- frosted-flakes 4y agoDo you also hold that against Liz Truss? She and Queen Elizabeth played equal parts in those atrocities; ie none, even though they are part of the same institutions that did have a part in that history.
- Onewildgamer 4y agoI don't hold this against anybody who wasn't directly involved in the atrocities. I've posted the same here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32775652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32775652 Edit: With all those things in perspective I ask the same question, would the late Queen of England have given up imperialism and colonialism and gave the nations to themselves if she lived during that era? Or was it convenient that she or anyone in power now didn't have to oversee the imperialism.
- tigerBL00D 4y agoIt is always sad when a good person passes, but this royal institution is ridiculous.
- rvz 4y agoEnd of an era regardless and may she rest in peace. Long live the King.
- bawolff 4y agoInteresting fact: Queen Elizabeth ascended to the throne the same year huffman encoding was invented.
- dromedariusCase 4y agoAs a long time lurker and infrequent poster, I am positively revolted by moderation's handling of this topic. Under the guise of "disallowing flamebait" HN's moderation team has systematically driven out anyone expressing negative opinions of an individual. At the start of this topic, there was a diversity of viewpoints[0] but now there is only trite, non-intellectually gratifying comments praising the queen or expressing their despair at her death (which is a weird sentiment for someone most have never met). As a second-generation immigrant from an Asian country, I have to admit that I was ecstatic at hearing the news. For someone who's family was poor to the point of drinking rotting bone stew and foraging grass partly due to the queen refusing to decolonize until Britian lacked the military might to do so, the only reaction anyone in my close circle could have is positive. This is juxtaposed with the prevailing sentiment here where it's socially unacceptable to celebrate her death. I wonder if all the moralist harping about how one should never celebrate a person's death felt about Stalin, or how they would react to the death of Carmen Ortiz or Vladimir Putin. I really enjoy my time lurking here in this small corner of the internet and I hope that the moderators here step it up and either 1. ban politically divisive topics or 2. moderate away both trite positive and negative comments. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769317
- sizzle 4y agoThank you for sharing your diverse perspective. Many Indian friends tell be the bloody legacy of British rule over India has had a lasting negative impact on life and liberty of their people and nation still felt to this very day.
- remram 4y agoThose are still there, as you point out with your link. You mean that you are dissatisfied with the crowd's upvotes, not the site's moderation?
- dromedariusCase 4y agoThe ones that aren't there, are not there! I can link you to some that aren't, but they show up as [flagged] and don't do a good job of illustrating my point[0]. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769867 [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769585 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769585 [2]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769281
- chirau 4y agoI WILL NOT MOURN THE QUEEN. I have never liked the queen or the British monarchy. To me they are the biggest symbol of oppression in history and set my people and continent several centuries back while they enriched themselves. Never an apology, never any reparations. So while i will not jump around and rejoice, I would be lying if I said I did not feel some happiness and relief at the news. And i think always will as this monarchy chips away. I am not alone in these sentiments, but our sentiments as Africans have never really mattered in the grand scheme of things. This press release from one of South Africa's bigger political parties expresses this succinctly. They did not mince their words and i know there are plenty of Africans who feel the same. LINK: https://www.politicsweb.co.za/documents/we-do-not-mourn-the-death-of-queen-elizabeth--eff https://www.politicsweb.co.za/documents/we-do-not-mourn-the-...
- jononomo 4y ago
- TaylorAlexander 4y agoThe same language has a very different meaning when coming from a people who have been colonized rather than coming from the colonizer. People who have been oppressed have every right to celebrate the passing of their oppressors.
- dromedariusCase 4y agoShe was a symbol of an institution that has brought perhaps the most harm out of any institution in our time. She was also the leader and sovereign of the UK while they engaged in atrocities against Malaysia and much of the rest of Asia and as GP points out Africa. She is not just "some women" and it is a position of privilege to see her as such.
- athorax 4y agoThis is honestly a bafflingly ignorant comment. The British royalty are responsible for reprehensible acts against humanity. To pretend as if the queen is no different than any other person undermimes centuries of oppression by the British empire.
- jononomo 4y agoWow, this got to 1,000 comments super fast. What is the record for the most comments on a Hacker News thread?
- dang 4y agoBiden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25015967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25015967 - Nov 2020 (4576 comments) Not a very interesting answer, but there you have it.
- jononomo 4y agoI honestly don't think anyone will care about the monarchy much after this. Charles just has zero charisma and William is pretty wooden as well. The queen had a vibe and presence that won't be repeated.
- agustinbena 4y agoWhat is the relevancy of this in tech? Can we stop posting here worthless news?
- dang 4y agoPlease see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- rufflez 4y ago
- ianvisits 4y agoBrits haven't been subjects since 1982. I am all for people not liking the monarchy, but at least get the facts right.
- DisjointedHunt 4y agoAll the comments about the monarchy in this thread miss the point that she is seen as a mother figure of the nation. The maternal figure head for the UK, a commentator on twitter put it well saying "It felt like we all lost our Grandmother"
- rufflez 4y agoWhy? I don't get it
- DisjointedHunt 4y agoWhy what? Why is she seen as the maternal head of a nation ? : Well, that's the historic role played by royal families in Europe, there are references to the tradition in heads of state elected around the world with POTUS' family referred to as "The First Family" You don't need to understand the tradition to respect it if you haven't lived there or experienced it.
- rufflez 4y ago> commentator on twitter put it well saying "It felt like we all lost our Grandmother" This is a nice, soft and mushy comment that will gather likes and retweets. It also influences one into suspending critical thinking and follow a narrative of reverence Some folks are born into riches and royalty - why put them on a pedestal simply because they sit on a throne?
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- jononomo 4y agoI'm really glad that they got that platinum jubilee celebration in earlier this year.
- rejor121 4y ago
- stillicide 4y agoTo put it in perspective, Queen Elizabeth II reigned since before UNIX epoch.
- gigatexal 4y agoSo one of the worlds best tourist attractions has died. Bummer. What is the point of the UK royal family again other than being a very expensive family on welfare? (UK tax payers paid them some 50M pounds for “support”.) I’ll admit growing up I had some affinity for all the good in the world Pincess Diana was doing. And then she died. Which was sad. Her life ruined by the royal family and a failed marriage to guy who wasn’t faithful. And then many years later after visiting the UK and learning how much the public supported them financially etc and how little power they had and other than being the face of the money I asked myself: “what is the point of it all? To sell tabloids?” Or if you come from one of the countries like me that was colonized under her watch you might have this reaction: https://twitter.com/laurajedeed/status/1567940027279196170?s=46&t=sVrFngUgYFgWhjzT6Gt_rQ https://twitter.com/laurajedeed/status/1567940027279196170?s...
- mbgu 4y ago
- tibbydudeza 4y agoEngland colonized us and left the place in a mess - not hatred but ambivalent compared to my wife who prattled to the kids about it (I wanted to sleep). She did her best in a system that does it best to rob you of being an individual - her behind the scenes limited intervention to get the Commonwealth and misguided scumbag Thatcher to at least condemn the Apartheid regime. I hope Charles does some of his more zany things like climate change and sustainability.
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- 2143 4y agoWhere I'm at, we hear a lot more about the British monarchs than any other monarchs. For instance, I just found out that Norway, for instance, also has a monarch. So does Sweden (?), and several other countries. But they — the Nordic monarchs — are unheard of in my country, and don't seem to have the same level of influence internationally. Is that your experience as well? (FWIW, my country was a former British colony but the British royalty is NOT my country's head at all).
- was_a_dev 4y agoYes, but I'm British I imagine the reason is because the Queen is part of the national identity of the UK, much more than the other European countries. Millions visit London annualy to visit Buckingham Palace - the Queen is a symbol of Britain.
- rdixit 4y agoThis lady represents British military violence to millions of black and brown people around the world. I don't understand why people, especially the British, aren't ashamed of this person. India alone had $45 trillion dollars of wealth looted from the country: https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/how-britain-stole-dollar45-trillion-from-india-with-trains/5f0daf981081ce619c33ac73 https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/how-britain-stole-dollar4... Literally millions of Indians died as a result of deliberate policies of colonization and economic enslavement by the British. Their history in Africa is too chilling to even recount here. In 7 decades as a figurehead and leader of her people, she never apologized for these crimes, and continued to quietly benefit from the spoils of war. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/true-story-koh-i-noor-diamondand-why-british-wont-give-it-back-180964660/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/true-story-koh-i-noor...
- gadders 4y ago
- rdixit 4y ago[flagged]
- gadders 4y agoI'm saying that was the culture at the time, and to judge one nation by today's standards but not others is racist.
- manquer 4y agoIt is not about how they behaved at that point in time of history. It is what do they about it since then about it. Tens of thousands of artifacts never returned to the countries from which it was taken including Crown jewels like Kohi-noor, or how Meghan was treated, views on reparations, or preserving the legacy of empire[1] and still holding on to being head of state of so many countries and all the privileges they have fought to keep their way of life - A president does not withhold signing a law to negotiate special exemptions for his family (see Royal Consent abuses) [1] not about the kingdom that is internal to UK
- 2-718-281-828 4y agoIn movies as well as in real life kings and queens are always played by the others. People like a big show - now they have a reason for a big show - but at the end of the day she was just an old woman living much too wealthy off taxes representing an anachronistic system of government.
- bbno4 4y agoThis is by far the most important event in the last 30 years. What a truly sad day.
- CloudGreed 4y agoI've never seen myself as a "royalist", but this is truly a loss.
- teddyX 4y agoHow is this appropriate or relevant to YC?
- nextstep 4y agoBraindead comments which add nothing to the discussion are allowed if they are bland, pro-monarchy messages. Anything critical of the queen will need to be carefully supported or it will be flagged.
- gillesjacobs 4y agoLong live the Republic!
- hackerlight 4y agoStunning to see the fake news and misinformation on social media. https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1568157931538989056 https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1568157931538989056
- lucideer 4y agoThis tweet itself is a misrepresentation. There's a history of monarchist sympathy in Ireland, partly stemming from the history of anglo-irish wealth in Dublin (readers of this journalist's paper) but also the political party that's been in power for the past 11 years would be historically sympathetic (as I guess would some subset of their voters). That said, none of the above is broadly representative of a majority, and apart from the one example she posts there of a tweet being shared out of context, there's been a very loud and varied anti monarchy sentiment expressed within Irish (not American) media and circles today. Much of the reportage is in fact not misinformation.
- gcj 4y agoNice.
- gcj 4y agoNice
- lern_too_spel 4y agoWith Charles being considerably less popular than Elizabeth, maybe the British will finally remove some royal privileges like https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/08/queen-power-british-law-queens-consent https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/08/queen-...
- azalemeth 4y agoI have cried several times today because of this. I did not expect to, and I did not think I would. Yet I did -- and I do not understand why.
- dirtmerchant 4y agoLet's leave aside the atrocities committed by British Colonialism. In fairness, those crimes are far bigger than any one person. Instead, focus on the individual. This is a woman who brow beat her daughter in law to the such a degree, that her two choices viable options were suicide or deportation. All for the crime of being born with a trace amount of black blood in their veins. This was not a good human being.
- k5z 4y agoThanks
- unixbane 4y ago[dead]