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Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack
- jeisc 5y agoSoon we will see a firewall around Russia to block cyber attacks?
- awb 5y agoNot so long ago they tested disconnecting the entire country from the Internet.
- le-mark 5y agoAs a US Army 19k (m1a1 crewman) stationed in Germany in the 80’s and 90’s, this is the fight we trained for incessantly. A horde of then soviet armor; we had A10s, Apaches, javelins, all that built just for this. No sane person courts war, but as old tanker I’m kinda sad it went to the Ukrainians, and not us.
- petre 5y agoThank you for your service in Europe!
- whitepaint 5y agoWhy is it happening exactly now? Just a coincidence? And why couldn't a deal between NATO and Russia happen? Something like "Okay, Ukraine won't join NATO within the next 10 years"? Who benefits from this the most? Is there anyone benefiting? I doubt it'd be happening if it wasn't the case, right?
- throwawaymanbot 5y ago
- 99_00 5y ago
- decebalus1 5y agoplease read the room
- cglan 5y agoIt’s sad but my father always told me that the good times we’ve had are unprecedented and they can end faster than we think. I never believed him growing up, institutions and America seemed infallible. It’s sad to say but I think with global warming, covid, and the general decline of American soft power we’ll see more and more global turmoil My heart goes out to Ukraine and its people
- asdff 5y agoIs this any different than any other military intervention America watched idly over the past century? Not really. In the "infallible" 1970s-1990s you might be remembering, we were casually ignoring plenty of similar actions around the world that make this present intervention seem pretty benign and slow moving. American soft power was over when the failure of the Korean war made it clear that all that could be done against a major nuclear power is a stalemate.
- unityByFreedom 5y agoRussia advanced under Obama, Trump, and now Biden. This war is entirely on Putin's shoulders.
- wernercd 5y ago
- 99_00 5y agoElections have consequences.
- unityByFreedom 5y agoRight, just "separatists" who happened to start fighting to expand Putin's empire and give him the region that supplies Russia's military with raw materials. From 2014, > Nevertheless, following its actions in Crimea, there is justified concern that Russia could now aim to annex eastern Ukraine. Unlike on the Crimean peninsula, there is not a large majority here who feel like they belong to Russia - and only about a quarter of the population of the east overall are ethnic Russians. https://www.dw.com/en/the-significance-of-the-donbas/a-17567049 https://www.dw.com/en/the-significance-of-the-donbas/a-17567... Trump did not want to stand up to Putin, so the early work to annex eastern Ukraine didn't make the news very often. Trump had no response to it.
- MattGaiser 5y agoI await the Russian trolls to tell us that this is all Western propaganda.
- nickysielicki 5y agoI didn’t follow this civil war for 7 years for someone to tell me I’m not entitled to an opinion on who is the real aggressor here.
- tadfisher 5y agoThe narrative is already pivoting to "NATO made them do this".
- murkt 5y agoRight, it’s the denazification of a country with the Jewish president. Fuck Russia :(
- jedmeyers 5y agoYou don’t understand, they are “nazi” because they are nationalists and support their country. So Russian nazis are going to attack Ukrainian nazis do “denazificate” them.
- nickysielicki 5y agoAzov battalion is full-on white nationalist neo nazi and they’re a large and legitimate player in this war. And they’ve been wiped off the map tonight. I guess it depends on your definition of a made up word but I’d certainly call it denazification.
- woodruffw 5y agoI don't know what the Azov battalion is, but I don't think shelling Kiev has much to do with them. Edit: They're a far-right/neo-Nazi group in the Donbas, apparently.
- ginja 5y agoI just woke up to this news and I'm wondering if it's possible for Apple and Google to brick all Russian phones? This would probably be more effective on their population at large than any form of sanctions.
- wyager 5y agoBrilliant idea, would definitely not have any knock-on effects or cause any retributive cyber-attacks
- hinkley 5y agoHow many machines can Kaspersky brick? I don’t think you want to start this.
- throwaway5752 5y agoKapersky? If it's running Kapersky it's not running anything that critical. The cyberwarfare capabilities of the US, EU and allies are not to be underestimated, even if they have used more precisely and conservatively than Russia's sphere.
- MattGaiser 5y agoIt should be illegal to continue to use Kaspersky in the West after today.
- hinkley 5y agoShould have been a couple years ago but yes.
- heavyset_go 5y agoBoth Apple and Google offer remote wiping of devices as features, and they both have root access on all of their devices. They can do whatever they want to on anyone's phone.
- enriquto 5y agoAs history shows again and again, attacks against the civilian population only serve to strenghten the support for the local tyrant. This would be just as counter-effective as the sanctions.
- dealforager 5y agoI've worked at tech companies that despise helping the US military. Please understand that the world is complex and although all superpowers have done terrible things, helping the US is the only way our children will live in a peaceful world. This isn't about democrats or republicans, the future of humanity will be decided in the next decade.
- wyager 5y agoNuclear proliferation, like it or not, has done more for global peace than US military/trade hegemony. Ukraine gave up all its nukes in the 90s which is why this is happening now.
- sorry_outta_gas 5y agoIt's hard to say, right now it looks like it's just letting countries armed to the teeth with them dominate whoever they want
- thatguy0900 5y agoSeems like an exageration. Do you think any country armed with nukes is dominating people as much as British empire, Romans, Mongols did? The fact that Russia (or China with Taiwan and Hong Kong) actually has to fight so hard for one country kind of shows they can't dominate whoever they want.
- freeopinion 5y agoThis reminds me very much of the slow motion train wreck leading into WWII. Germany had to fight hard in the same kind of political way back then, too. That was obviously pre-nuke. It takes a long time to build the many (logistical, psychological, political) facets required to lead your country down this path. With or without nukes. To answer your question, yes. A country with nukes is dominating people as much as the British empire, Romans, and Mongols did? How is that even a serious question? With military forces spread through Korea, Japan, Germany, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Poland, Lithuania, Arizona, Alaska, Dominican Republic, Cuba, you name it. From sea to shining sea, then another sea and another sea.
- purple_ferret 5y agoBetween this and the takeover of Afghanistan it certainly has been an extremely sad year. The End of History? Not so fast. Free people not having a good run here.
- throwaway5752 5y agoThe US was an occupier of Afganistan. The US agreed to a withdrawal in exchange for a truce with the Taliban under the previous administration, which was honored by the next administration. This is an invasion of a peaceful country by its neighbor. They are complete opposites.
- rectang 5y agoThe similarity is that the both the Russians and the Taliban do not allow for self-determination by the citizenry.
- basementcat 5y agoI’m sure if you ask public servants in Afghanistan and Russia, they’ll both agree that they have the overwhelming support of the citizenry and any statements to the contrary are obviously lies.
- tim333 5y agoI'm not sure what your point is there.
- 8note 5y agoRussia argues that it's defending the self determination of ethnic Russians in the Ukraine. Maintaining the current borders does not advocate for self determination. War might not either, but the Ukraine isn't going to give up that land peacefully
- rectang 5y ago
- xwdv 5y ago
- rdtsc 5y ago> Where is the best place to invest money as the market falls? No sense in letting a crisis go to waste. There is an invasion with innocent people in the the line fire and you’re worried where to be invest to profit from it. Kinda hoping it was sarcasm, but suspect it wasn’t…
- f3ljk 5y ago
- Johnny555 5y agoWhile he may be looking for profit, there are many people that are just trying to preserve retirement nest eggs. It's a valid concern, but probably no point in asking here since there's no guaranteed safe haven.
- weird-eye-issue 5y agoWell I'm curious what you're doing to help Ukraine?
- rdtsc 5y ago> Well I'm curious what you're doing to help Ukraine? Seeing if I can get my parents out. Thanks for asking. Good to see someone cares.
- xwdv 5y agoIt is too dangerous to get out now, you must wait for an opportunity.
- weird-eye-issue 5y agoThat's good and I'm sorry they are in that situation. But most of us have no ties to Ukraine and buying some shares is going to have exactly zero impact on you or anyone else
- warner_of_doom 5y agoI am for keeping Ukraine as a neutral buffer separating Russia and the US. NATO proposed Ukrainian and Georgian membership of NATO in 2005-2008, in the clear knowledge that this would destabilize the situation. France, Germany, and others were against this. The proposal began the issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJBQikfYyKs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJBQikfYyKs We then openly backed the 2014 putsch in Kiev, an open act of aggression just as irresponsible as a military incursion. CIA John Brennan, Senator John McCain, and Diplomat Victoria Nuland were there in Ukraine when Yanukovych was being overthrown. There is also evidence to show that we were involved through NGOs in overthrowing and promoting an atmosphere desiring the overthrow of Yanukovych. This war is about more than just Putin. Research: George Friedman, Peter Zeihan, John Mearsheimer, Peter Hitchens, Noam Chomsky (more of an ideologue), etc. on this issue. You can start on YouTube OR read their books, I guess. These are all PhDs or experts in some fashion that I just cited. You could just read their books too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Friedman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Friedman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Zeihan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Zeihan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hitchens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hitchens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky "F* the EU" said Diplomat Victoria Nuland -- knowing full well that the Germans and French would be against a coup in then-neutral Ukraine. Meanwhile, once again, soon after the Iraq debacle: here we are getting dragged into another "war for democracy". Russia and America turned Ukraine into a "if we can't have, burn it to the ground" situation. Further American intervention in Ukraine will just turn it into another Syria.
- mysecretaccount 5y agoWill the people downvoting this comment mind telling me what is wrong with it? I'm not a Russian apologist, just a fan of history, and am trying to understand why so many people reject this narrative. edit: Now I am downvoted too just for asking..? This just makes me think that there is not a solid answer?
- MattGaiser 5y agoFor one thing, NATO does not propose membership, something Russians seem to think though [0]. Countries apply to join. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-s...
- ripvanwinkle 5y agoTo some extent this situation feels analogous to a street mugging happening in very slow motion The thug accosts the victim, threatens and then proceeds to assault the victim in full view of a large number of bystanders who are numerous enough to defend the victim and alter the outcome but not convicted enough to take on the inconvenience of doing so. Nevertheless all the bystanders voice words of encouragement and sympathy and even offer to sue the aggressor in court after the fact if the victim is harmed or killed.
- jacobolus 5y agoWhen the thug has nuclear weapons, responses get a lot trickier.
- nickpp 5y ago
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- lamontcg 5y agoCongratulations you just ended human life on the planet, would you like to play again?
- nickpp 5y ago[flagged]
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- ghostwriter 5y agowhich part of your own country are you willing to risk to be hit by nukes first? It's easy to be militarily bold at someone else's expense, more so if you don't serve in a regular army.
- rdtsc 5y agoI am curious, what do Russians think of this. Does anyone support him? Is it completely just one maniac with his friends running this. Is his propaganda that effective that Russians agree with any of it. I think if anyone can stop him, it has to be ordinary Russians. I don’t see sanctions or warnings from Biden or EU doing anything. And they will never directly step in and protect the Ukranian people.
- NewJazz 5y agoRussians (some of them, to clarify) associate the current Ukrainian regime with Nazism/fascism. After all, far right groups were a major part of the 2014 revolution/putsch. https://crimethinc.com/2022/02/15/war-and-anarchists-anti-authoritarian-perspectives-in-ukraine https://crimethinc.com/2022/02/15/war-and-anarchists-anti-au... (note: the disinformation section is especially relevant)
- sbmthakur 5y ago> Russians associate the current Ukrainian regime with Nazism/fascism. I guess you are speaking for majority of Russians. Is there an independent survey to back it up?
- ironcurtain 5y agoLook up the chant - Moskalyaku na gilyaku - which supporters of the current regime chant all the time. Plenty of videos of that. Check what it means.
- artem247 5y agoThere were elections in 2019 which completely changed power in Ukraine, humorous chant from 2014 has no relation to power in modern ukraine.
- evilyach 5y agoWhy are you saying that? Not all Russians are brainwashed by state propaganda. I think very few Russians who read Hackernews actually support what is going on right now, if any. To be honest, me and all of the people around me thought that this is too crazy to happen, but here we are.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- VictorPath 5y ago
- bpodgursky 5y ago
- suzzer99 5y agoUkraine's president is Jewish. But also somehow a neo-nazi. Got it.
- alins 5y ago
- Kranar 5y agoI wouldn't expect many people here to know who John Mearsheimer is and honestly the conversation appears to be that you must unequivocally support what the U.S. and West in general have done or else you're some kind of Russian propagandist/puppet.
- r721 5y agoMearsheimer is extremely pro-Kremlin pundit though, he's even welcomed [1] at Valdai Discussion Club ("The Valdai conference is closely linked with Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has met with the participants of the Valdai Club’s annual meetings every year since its founding." [2]) [1] https://twitter.com/m_suchkov/status/1483765876310511617 https://twitter.com/m_suchkov/status/1483765876310511617 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdai_Discussion_Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdai_Discussion_Club
- throwawaymedia 5y agoHe is neither pro-Kremlin nor anti-Kremlin. Mearsheimer is a political scientist with 50+ years of experience. He relies on pure facts and explains why things are the way they are. Nothing more, nothing less.
- artem247 5y agoHe tells you the facts that you want to hear, that is all. His view is Kremlin-apologist. You are not in Ukraine, you rely on second-hand account. So for any 'facts' you have to rely on someone. Ukraine is a complex topic, and 'things the way they are' is extremely hard to get, there is an ideological lens to everything. His lecture was shared recently on some Ukrainian forums and widely derided as just repeating Russian state propaganda talking points.
- artem247 5y ago
- ImprovedSilence 5y agoHang on to your butts, they're gonna come for all of Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
- awb 5y ago> Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible. Finland gets the next worst treatment, simply saying it should be “absorbed”. Interesting that it says military action is to be avoided and that Russia should use it’s natural resource dominance to extract concessions from other countries.
- tim333 5y agoI wonder if Finland joins NATO now.
- Faelian2 5y agoFrance and Germany having a firm anti-Atlanticist tradition, and China being a danger for Russia are ridiculous. I don't believe for a second that this represent Putin's strategy in any meaningful way.
- cosmiccatnap 5y ago
- javajosh 5y agoHow horrible for those that will die now, and over time for anyone in Ukraine who wants the right to express dissent with government policies without being bullied, harrassed, harmed or killed for it. This is a right worth fighting for, for ourselves and others, and always will be.
- unityByFreedom 5y ago> who wants the right to express dissent with government policies without being bullied, harrassed, harmed or killed for it. This is the whole reason we have separate countries and government. Setting your own policy as a country is not supposed to result in war. Ukraine is standing firm on its sovereignty. A belligerent adversary has started a war because it feels the sovereign country isn't sovereign and can't be friends with certain countries. That upends the whole concept of countries, which further erodes Putin's credibility, if he had any left. He first upended self-determination in his own country, then internationally, and now seeks takeover of an entire foreign country.
- f3ljk 5y ago[dead]
- voisin 5y agoHas China weighed in at all?
- dade_ 5y agoRussia and China have a deal to back each other’s despotic regimes on the UN security council. No matter what Xi says, he will back Putin.
- f3ljk 5y ago
- philliphaydon 5y agoChina already stated they support Russia 100% because they need Russia to defend against the west. There was a document posted by Chinese media yesterday stating how to censor Russia content. Anything pro Russia to be promoted and anything against to be scrubbed. Edit: This was screen grabbed from Weibo which was posted by Horizon News. (sorry got the wrong news agency) https://twitter.com/lingli_vienna/status/1496097706493816833 https://twitter.com/lingli_vienna/status/1496097706493816833 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-news-outlet-ukraine-coverage-instructions-weibo-horizon-russia-2022-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-news-outlet-ukraine-co...
- fasteddie31003 5y agoI believe order and chaos are the two most predominate forces in nature. Russia is a very chaotic nation (granted they made the RD-180 rocket engines, but they murdered Korolev) Life favors the ordered.
- f3ljk 5y ago
- Gatsky 5y ago> "To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside: if you do, you will face consequences greater than any of you have faced in history. All relevant decisions have been taken. I hope you hear me."
- nickpp 5y agoThe speech of a bully, of an aggressor. The only correct reply is a direct retaliatory attack on his offensive positions.
- motohagiography 5y agoThe reason Putin is invading is because he knows the U.S. is weak, its leadership is politically weak, and there's very little it will do, and even if it does, it doesn't have popular support. It's the effect of clear incentives. If the U.S. intervenes, a retaliatory cyber op from Russia against critical infrastructure would make america amish again. Then, wait until midterms when the president loses the house and senate and doesn't have the power to muster a draft when China takes Taiwan. This is one of those happening slowly and then all at once events in history I suspect.
- awb 5y agoI don’t think this is the full picture. Post-Vietnam the US hasn’t engaged in large scale active combat against communism or Russian-backed forces. It has instead favored selling weapons to Eastern European states and building the NATO alliance. Putin has been clear about the breakup of the USSR being a mistake in his eyes. He’s been annexing territories (or in his eyes, re-annexing) since 1999. He looks for countries with strong Russian cultural and linguistic backgrounds and props up allies that will take over. If that doesn’t work he ratchets up the pressure until he feels comfortable using military force. See: Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea and now Ukraine. The US is far stronger militarily than Russia, but with nuclear weapons in the equation, no one wins. It’s easy to be an arm chair hawk and say we should go fight, but it’s another thing to look you kids in the eye and explain they’re going to die from radiation fallout. Instead, the US will likely prop up the resistance once Ukraine falls and try to make occupation as costly as possible just like we did in Afghanistan.
- steve76 5y ago
- friedman23 5y agoThis is a tragedy. This is what we get for enabling weak willed leaders and appeasers. People like to joke when basketball players go and visit dictatorships and companies do business with mass murderers. Well here is the result. Another war and more death. We need to have zero tolerance for these psychopathic dictators and their families. Full embargoes. Isolate them to their tiny hell holes and never let them leave. Fuck the "economy". Freedom is the most important thing, how many more millions need to die before we understand this?
- jdrc 5y agohow much support from russians does putin have for this kind of invasion?
- csee 5y agoHalf of Russia supports an invasion. A minority is opposed. Was a poll
- forlorn 5y agoThese are laughable numbers, trust me. It's the opposite in reality.
- agumonkey 5y agoYou mean propaganda plus fear of being arrested if speaking against the king ?
- murkt 5y agoReality? We’ll see if there will be any demonstrations in Russia against the war in this reality.
- unityByFreedom 5y agoDoes anyone wish for or expect that? We saw people go up against tanks during the fall of the soviet union, but it's rare. If Russian people have such a mindset it should be entirely their own decision. Let's not speculate.
- unityByFreedom 5y agoI can't imagine anyone excited over warring with so near a place where so many families are connected. Also the two accounts above you are new.
- thatguy0900 5y agoRussia is a state that actively dissapears dissenters. I'm not sure how much you can trust polls.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
- nikolayasdf123 5y ago
- anothernewdude 5y ago
- mahkeiro 5y ago
- hexxagone 5y ago"Ukraine did not behave reasonably" UH ?
- dinamic 5y ago
- BasDirks 5y agoShady.
- dinamic 5y agoAbsolutely not. Proof Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_Back_Alive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_Back_Alive Facebook page with 3 million followers: https://www.facebook.com/backandalive/ https://www.facebook.com/backandalive/
- Trasmatta 5y agoCivilian donations to a state military? I don't really think that's a thing...pretty sure this is a scam.
- dinamic 5y agoNo, it's not! Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_Back_Alive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_Back_Alive Facebook page with 3 million followers: https://www.facebook.com/backandalive/ https://www.facebook.com/backandalive/
- spacechild1 5y agoI don't think so. My Ukrainian friends have shared this link as well.
- ycombinete 5y agoIn his 1997 book The Grand Chessboard Zbigniew Brzezinski did say that if Europe went to war again it would start in Ukraine. Some choice quotes: “Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire.” “However, if Moscow regains control over Ukraine, with its 52 million people and major resources as well as access to the Black Sea, Russia automatically again regains the wherewithal to become a powerful imperial state, spanning Europe and Asia.”
- rozab 5y agoThe same prediction is made in Dugin's Foundations of Geopolitics. Many of his recommendations have come to pass. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#Content https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#Con...
- emteycz 5y agoThat's because these "predictions"/recommendations are taken as school textbook (literally, it's required reading!) by Russian military.
- jessaustin 5y agoNowhere does Dugin have a larger stature than in the fever dreams of western military aficionados.
- sitkack 5y agoThis is one of the issues I see with books of prognostications, they aren't so much as predicting the future as advocating for a course of action. They are selling their own version of the future.
- abrichr 5y agoCan you please provide a source? Here are some suggesting that he is influential: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/23/ukraine-crimea-what-putin-thinking-russia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/23/ukraine-crimea... : Dugin serves as an adviser to State Duma speaker Sergei Naryshkin, a key member of the ruling United Russia party who has loudly supported Russian intervention in Ukraine, and has made widely viewed television appearances to discuss the Ukraine crisis alongside high-ranking members of the government. [Economist Sergei Glazyev] is also an associate of Dugin's. https://www.hoover.org/research/russias-new-and-frightening-ism https://www.hoover.org/research/russias-new-and-frightening-... : Few books published in Russia during the post-communist period have exerted such an influence on Russian military, police, and foreign policy elites as Aleksandr Dugin’s 1997 neo-fascist treatise Osnovy geopolitiki: Geopoliticheskoe budushchee Rossii (Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geo-political Future of Russia). https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/27/geopolitics-russia-mackinder-eurasia-heartland-dugin-ukraine-eurasianism-manifest-destiny-putin/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/27/geopolitics-russia-mack... : The Foundations of Geopolitics sold out in four editions, and continues to be assigned as a textbook at the General Staff Academy and other military universities in Russia. “There has probably not been another book published in Russia during the post-communist period which has exerted a comparable influence on Russian military, police, and statist foreign policy elites,” writes historian John Dunlop, a Hoover Institution specialist on the Russian right. https://azure.org.il/include/print.php?id=483 https://azure.org.il/include/print.php?id=483 : The publication of The Foundations of Geopolitics in 1997 was received with great interest, and brought Dugin to the attention of powerful figures in the Russian government. He wisely befriended the oligarch Aleksandr Taranzev, who recommended him to the military general staff. ... Dugin’s book was incorporated into the curriculum of the Russian military academy and became required reading for the next generation of officers. One year later, Dugin was appointed senior political adviser to Gennadiy Seleznyov, a former member of the Communist Party and chairman of the Russian parliament, who headed the Center for Geopolitical Analysis, a think tank dedicated to policy recommendations on internal security matters. ... The radical intellectual’s stature reached new heights with the appointment of Vladimir Putin to the Russian presidency. Slowly but surely, Dugin succeeded in ingratiating himself with the new president’s inner circle. He forged strong ties with a hawkish, security-oriented clique of insiders, mostly composed of ex-members of the military and the security services. First and foremost among them was Igor Sechin, a former KGB official who has served as Putin’s closest adviser for the past fifteen years and is now deputy prime minister. Other members of this powerful faction include Security Council secretary and former head of the FSB Nikolai Patrushev; former deputy prime minister and Security Council member Sergei Ivanov; and Boris Gryzlov, the speaker of the lower house of parliament and chairman of Putin’s ruling United Russia party. https://books.google.ca/books?id=0qQixjX1hwoC&q=Gennady+Seleznyov+dugin+-during&pg=PA380&redir_esc=y#v=snippet&q=Gennady%20Seleznyov%20dugin%20-during&f=false https://books.google.ca/books?id=0qQixjX1hwoC&q=Gennady+Sele... : The activities of the copious and studious Eurasianist intellectual Alexander Dugin are making progress, and it is known that he has close relations with the Academy of the General Staff and once headed an advisory group in the office of Duma Speaker Gennady Seleznyov.
- osynavets 5y agoKharkiv, 25 miles to Russia. Just want to say that we are strong, we are confident about our army and I hope that everything will be fine. I'm sorry that I share content like this on this platform, but that's my reality
- yonisto 5y agoI'm so sorry. But the truth is that you don't stand a chance. Russia will get what it wants (it got the support of China that will offset any sanctions the the West might impose) I really hope you will stay safe.
- jevgeni 5y agoRussia can't even get a gas pipeline to all of its cities
- sillysaurusx 5y agoEveryone already knows that. It's not helpful to say it, you know.
- replwoacause 5y agoUkraine will make Russia suffer though as they seem very determined to protect their country. And the rest of the world will make Russia suffer economically. So this is a lose-lose situation.
- adventured 5y agoUkraine was always going to lose, going up against Russia, as would most nations. Lose-lose is a better option for the people of Ukraine, if you accept they are desiring to defend themselves (which will entail a higher death toll); the other scenario is Russia wins (taking no losses) and Ukraine loses (nearly everything). Ukraine can make Russia suffer if the West has given them enough weapons to do so. I'm skeptical that they did in time. They had seven years after Crimea to help Ukraine, and waited far too long to do it to a great enough degree.
- morelandjs 5y agoThurb off Google Russia. Looks to be one of their more popular websites.
- slekker 5y agoYandex is way more popular and has all services Google provide. Similarly there are multiple marketplace and Amazon-like companies, one aptly named Ozon. Russia is also planning on an alternative to SWIFT.
- uejfiweun 5y agoDoes anyone have any projections for how this war will go? Is the Ukrainian military powerful? Will this turn into a guerilla war, or will it go the way of total war? Or will it result in total capitulation? And another key question. What will Western governments actually do? What if the war gets really bad? Does the West actually have the balls to put real, biting sanctions on the regime? And will this crash the economy?
- nikolayasdf123 5y agonobody is helping ukraine with any military so far. nor NATO nor any other allies. it is sad, but whole ukraine can fall within days.
- paxys 5y agoNobody is helping ukraine with any military, period. There is zero appetite for yet another military conflict in any western country, especially not with a country armed with nukes and with a madman's hand on the trigger. The response will just be yet more sanctions. If Russia provokes a NATO member then it's time to invest in those doomsday bunkers.
- neilwilson 5y agoSanctions can do nothing to affect Russia. The belief in them is beyond stupid. It's like washing your hands in the face of an airborne virus.
- BasDirks 5y ago> Nobody is helping ukraine with any military, period. This is not true.
- catlikesshrimp 5y agoReference?
- freeflight 5y ago
- Osiris 5y agoThis whole action makes no sense to me. I do not understand Putin's motivation here. I can't see an economic or political justification. The only reason I can think of is that he just yearns for more power regardless of the costs. Can anyone provide any possible reasons Putin would have for doing this?
- unityByFreedom 5y agoI don't think it benefits him either, but maybe he doesn't see that yet. If he starts feeling the losses he could still get out of it by cancelling the military campaign and pursuing diplomacy.
- throwaway829 5y agoUkraine joining Nato is akin to the Cuban missile crisis. Nato is WW3 in the making. It's an idiotic pact that agrees if Russia does anything deemed hostile, they all have to declare war. It's the same stupid type of pact that caused ww1 & ww2. The people pushing it want war with Russia. It will only benefit fat cat oligarchs. You will pay the taxes and you will be doing the dying.
- xyzzy_plugh 5y agoEven if that were true, it doesn't justify annexing a country and erasing a nation.
- freeflight 5y ago> erasing a nation It's interesting how this kind of language now suddenly starts emerging, wonder how long until everybody will be talking about "genocide".
- xyzzy_plugh 5y agoI'm more than happy to be proven wrong. But the erasure of Ukraine is not novel.
- 5y ago
- dukeofdoom 5y agoAfter the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was looking for a little while like the West might make peace with Russia. In the post collapse of the Soviet Union, Billionaire Oligarchs emerged that controlled most of the business and finance while the Russian population was extremely poor. When the Russian judicial system went after a few of them, and specifically Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the US immediately started to sanction Russia. Since then I've lived through years of the West accusing Russia of interfering in democracy, and just endless nonsense propaganda, like blaming Putin for Trump winning the election. Zero self reflection on them interfering in Russia. While I support Ukrainian independence, I understand why Putin would freak out about having a hostile neighbour backed by the West and capable of installing weapon systems within close Range of Moscow.
- throwaway_4ever 5y ago> blaming Putin for Trump winning the election What do you call it when the Russian state hacks the the political party institution in America before an election? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee_cyber_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee_...
- 8note 5y agoI'd call the Americans weak, and their system poor. It's not Russia's fault that American institutions are in decline
- xyzzy_plugh 5y agoI'm neither Russian or American but you're seeing through tinted glasses. Russia's direct interference through social media over the past decade has paled in comparison to... what, indirect interference of supporting a neighbor who wants independence? If everyone around you would rather associate with the other side of the planet, maybe you have to take a look at yourself. Russia is not equipped for such introspection and self-driven reform. Joining NATO is not remotely equivalent to annexation.
- neop1x 5y agoThis is how their propaganda explains it. But in reality why on Earth would West want to attack Moscow?! What would West gain from that?! And just because of "his personal fears" he decided to invade an independent country. That's an is indefensible act of terrorism.
- xyzzy_plugh 5y agoThe party was never truly over, was it? I know many people who have escaped Ukraine over the last century. I say escaped, because for most of the last hundred years the Ukrainian people have been in a vice. Their culture, society and history have been gradually erased. The expats I know who left a few generations ago don't consider recent generations of Ukrainian peoples to even be Ukrainian. Russia has been bitterly grooming their neighbor ever since they were divorced in the fall of the USSR, but even before that, too. It's all so sad. Beyond the deaths, turmoil, economic destruction, if Putin sees this through then an entire nation will have been erased. Erased! I don't want a world war, but we must ask ourselves when is it worth risking sacrifice of that which is personal. When the next nation is consumed? When it's too late? I recently worked with some really lovely peers from that region, from Ukraine. I wish I could teleport them somewhere else. All of this makes me feel so sick.
- anshumankmr 5y agoIt is quite interesting to see publications like Jacobin posting obvious flame bait such as this:https://twitter.com/jacobin/status/1496693868955246599 https://twitter.com/jacobin/status/1496693868955246599. Even Tucker Carlson is parroting Russian propaganda. https://i.redd.it/pr9tnneyemj81.png https://i.redd.it/pr9tnneyemj81.png I hope the Ukrainian people fight back as hard as they can and the governments of the world help them in any way they can.
- Wiseacre 5y agoVery Orwellian. We were never at odds with Russia. The only ones telling you this are the bad people.
- keewee7 5y agoTucker Carlson and the rest of the Republican party's support for Russia boils down to "we need Russian support against China". Have they actually been to Russia? The country is intensely anti-Western and already on the verge of becoming a Chinese puppet state.
- ciphol 5y agoI think it's more "we need Russian support against Democrats". Given the events in US politics of the last 6 years.
- tim333 5y agoFits with the "Trump praises ‘genius’ Putin for moving troops to eastern Ukraine" stuff.
- originalvichy 5y agoDon’t minimize the effect of Russia being a conservative christian white (for Republican standards) nation. The European conservative christian right wing has allied with the likes of Russia and their puppets just to combat liberalism and secularism.
- Borrible 5y agoOh, just in case. How will NATO respond if one of its members invokes NATO Article 5 in the near future because of cyberattacks against it? Kinetic attacks, of course, are easy to classify, even if they happened accidentally. For example near the polish border.
- agumonkey 5y agoIn the recent video where Putin gathered some officials to discuss intel, you could see them stuttering and fumbling their speech. It seems Putin is pulling all the strings and that even higher ranks are puppets. Potentially a lever.
- xapata 5y ago> While the meeting was presented as a “live” event, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, one of the advisors, was wearing a watch showing that the event was recorded five hours before, thus placing it before the “governments” of the regions asked for recognition. https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/february-21-2022 https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/february-21-2022
- agumonkey 5y agoInteresting, that's two obvious mistake revealing staging communications. And either rushed or voluntary carelessness. How much was being prepared behind curtains during previous weeks ..
- ir77 5y agoalso what no one noticed, i don't think, is how putin takes off his wrist watch at the beggining of the speach from his right wrist -- as there seem to be camereras to his right, and faces it towards him and away from any camera view. the watch stays there for the whole sessions, turned away from the camera on the right. https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/russian-president-vladimir-putin-chairs-a-meeting-with-members-of-the-picture-id1238671810?s=2048x2048 https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/russian-president-vladi...
- entropicgravity 5y agoI have a feeling that Putin and the oligarchs will continue to access the world financial institutions through China, particularly Hong Kong.
- unnouinceput 5y agoUkraine is the new 80's Afghanistan. War by proxy between US and Russia. Welcome to Cold War 2.0
- dandanua 5y agoI'm in Ukraine and I'm not considering myself as a proxy. We just want to live in a free country, not under the rule of a despot.
- unnouinceput 5y agoUnfortunately is not your choice, same as was no choice for Korean, Vietnamese or Afghanistan people. These 2 big superpowers like to piss on each other using somebody's else land.
- dandanua 5y agoEveryone has a choice. Humans on Earth are not a proxy for the war between God and Devil. Ukraine could have become an autocratic republic like Belarus or Kazakhstan easily. But people of Ukraine chose not to.
- unnouinceput 5y agoYou're stating what should be and I 100% agree with you. I am stating what it is, and indeed is ugly.
- leke 5y agoI'm not happy that (my) Western governments are not fighting with the Ukrainians after seeing them invade the Middle East - Iraq (false flag WMDs) and Afghanistan (ok they were harboring terrorists, but pointless operation). This would seem like the right thing to do, but apparently it isn't. I have a feeling that sometime in the future, we will look back at this as an oppertunitly where we could have stopped Russia.
- BasDirks 5y agoThis war is far from over.
- throwawaymedia 5y agoI'm Ukrainian, but I just want to throw a provocative thought in here. Everyone's talking about how bad and evil Putin is and all that. However, nobody's talking about the _why_ Putin is doing what he's doing. For the past 14 years, Russia is trying to find a solution as for the NATO's expansion to the east. The US does NOT want to stop the expansion despite anything. If I place a tent next to your house and start watching your windows daily, what's going to be your reaction? That is EXACTLY what's happening today. Nobody cares about Ukraine. Neither the US nor Putin. Ukraine is poor country. The _core_ of the problem is the US and its desire to place military bases across the world, including Ukraine, hence next to Russia's borders. Who'd like that? The US didn't like it in 60th during the Cuban Missile Crisis, so is Russia today. Everything started in April of 2008, during the Bucharest Summit Declaration saying that "NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO". Russia immediately said that this is not going to happen because it affects their security - and it DOES make sense, doesn't it? That led to a war in Georgia. Today it's a war in Ukraine, my home country. Once again, Putin is just a side effect. The core, the _root_ cause is the US's maniacal NATO expansion aspiration.
- DrJaws 5y agothere are other countries that are closer to Russia than cities like Kyiv , but Russia is invading them also, why Russia should decide on how other countries decide their internal affairs? Ukraine doesn't need the approval of Russia to join or not join NATO.
- throwawaymedia 5y agoYou are right, Ukraine doesn't need the approval of Russia, however, becoming a member of NATO is only possible if membership does not affect security of any other country. That's written on paper and one of the conditions. But since the US politics is against Russia (for some _stupid_ reasons - do a research and educate yourself), Ukraine becoming a member of NATO is a direct threat to Russia. Edit: I also want to add to this that the US is completely aware of the situation. They know exactly that their decision not to stop the expansion leads to a war. First, the US is not stupid. Second, there is a great example - Georgia, where war for the exact same reason took place. So, who's to blame here? Is it really Putin? My common sense tells the opposite.
- FpUser 5y agoI was hoping that the whole thing was one big case of Russia trolling West for whatever reasons. Now I see that Putin just went insane and acts like a mad dog.
- xyzal 5y agoIf the west fails to act effectively, I bet China will invade Taiwan in the following years.
- CommanderData 5y agoI think this is highly likely to happen.
- wly_cdgr 5y agoI could see that happening in the next few weeks
- keewee7 5y agoRussia is intentionally hyping up the risk of nuclear war and WW3. Western leaders should impose total sanctions on Russia but also calm their own populations that there will not be any military confrontation with Russia.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- lavp 5y agoThis is pretty much exactly what is going on
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- guilhas 5y ago
- thecleaner 5y agoTaiwan is Taiwan. Not part of China
- edwinyzh 5y ago
- throwaway894345 5y agoI really hope the world comes down hard on Russia with sanctions and support for Ukraine, but I’m afraid that so much of Europe depends on Russian gas that they won’t risk getting cut off. Which begs the question: how did Europe allow itself to come to depend so heavily on Russian energy? And how quickly can Russia pivot to buy energy from elsewhere (for a reasonable price)?
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
- ant6n 5y agoA strategy to not be dependent on fossil fuels due to climate change and a strategy to not be dependent on fossil fuels from Russia align very well.
- raxxorrax 5y agoSince you cannot change infrastructure over night, gas was the much cleaner alternative to lignite. If Russia stops supplying Europe, they will look for other gas suppliers.
- trinovantes 5y agoI think GP might be referring to anti-nuclear movement Germany shutting down nuclear plants in favor of natural gas plants and soon-to-be-increasing coal plants for base load is bad for energy independence, climate, and now world stability
- ant6n 5y agoThat wasn’t Gretas demand
- trinovantes 5y agoBut she is anti-nuclear which IMO is very naive and unrealistic
- allisdust 5y agoIt's like he was just waiting for Merkel to leave the office. Really weak response from NATO. Not even advanced arms supply apart from some token donation. Afghanistan withdrawal seem to have emboldened a lot of global players.
- ironcurtain 5y ago
- keewee7 5y agoEvery Western country should impose total sanctions on Russia. Stop all trade with Russia.
- scotty79 5y agoAnd nationalize all property and capital owned by Russian companies and possibly wealthy individuals.
- flavius29663 5y agoat what point does that turn into an act of war?
- scotty79 5y agoWhen shots are fired?
- sillysaurusx 5y agoI’m trying to help my programmer friend escape Ukraine. Since smuggling is a hack, I’d like to ask HN for suggestions on how to pull this off. His elderly father is being drafted. I got a DM from a mutual asking me whether there’s anything I could do for them. I have money but no knowledge of the country; they live there but have no money. During WW2, various affluent people helped smuggle Jews out of Germany. I’d like to help my friend’s family in a similar way. But the reality of doing this is very different than the stories from history. Currently my only plan is to yeet some cash at them and say good luck. But I was hoping to come up with something better. I could book an airbnb for their family in a neighboring country, for example. Does anyone know if the busses are still running? Is it possible to leave Ukraine right now via traditional means, or would they have to hoof it on foot? If they need to walk, does anyone have a suggestion on which part of the border might be friendly for an elderly family to cross? I know this sounds unlikely, but given the choice between unlikely and “do nothing,” I’ll bet on unlikely. EDIT: I made a twitter thread to share updates: https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1496761074258952193 https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1496761074258952193 And a second HN comment further upthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30451691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30451691 It turns out that other people are trying to do this too. If we pool our knowledge, our chances probably go way up. Definitely get in touch.
- nuodag 5y agoI don't know the current situation, hopefully someone else can tell you that. But the good thing is Ukrainians can travel ( with a biometric Passport) to EU for 90 days and then see further. One good travel Option (was, but I think should be still, AFAIK only planes stopped because they could be shot down) to travel by train to Lviv, take a taxi to Przemysl in Poland for maybe 50€ worth, and then take a train from there to for example Berlin. All the best to your friend and his family.
- kragen 5y agoAre you in Ukraine? If not, how will you yeet cash at them?
- nlitened 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- twocatss 5y agoI feel so pessimistic and angry right now. What can I do is only making best wishes to Ukraine people.
- twocatss 5y agoI feel so pessimistic and angry right now. What i can do is only making best wishes to Ukraine people, wish the Ukraine soldiers are tough enough to expel Russian army.
- kragen 5y agoHistorical context: https://dercuano.github.io/notes/wwiii-genesis.html https://dercuano.github.io/notes/wwiii-genesis.html Today's Reuters article text: Russian forces invade Ukraine with strikes on major cities By Andrew Osborn and Natalia Zinets MOSCOW/KYIV, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Russian forces fired missiles at several cities in Ukraine and landed troops on its coast on Thursday, officials and media said, after President Vladimir Putin authorised what he called a special military operation in the east. Shortly after Putin spoke in a televised address on Russian state TV, explosions could be heard in the pre-dawn quiet of the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv. Gunfire rattled near the capital's main airport, the Interfax news agency said, and sirens were heard over the city. "Putin has just launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Peaceful Ukrainian cities are under strikes," Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said on Twitter. "This is a war of aggression. Ukraine will defend itself and will win. The world can and must stop Putin. The time to act is now." U.S. President Joe Biden, reacting to an invasion the United States had been predicting for weeks, said his prayers were with the people of Ukraine "as they suffer an unprovoked and unjustified attack", while promising tough sanctions in response. read more "I will be meeting with the leaders of the G7, and the United States and our allies and partners will be imposing severe sanctions on Russia," Biden said in a statement. Russia has demanded an end to NATO's eastward expansion and Putin repeated his position that Ukrainian membership of the U.S.-led Atlantic military alliance was unacceptable. He said he had authorised military action after Russia had been left with no choice but to defend itself against what he said were threats emanating from modern Ukraine, a democratic state of 44 million people. "Russia cannot feel safe, develop, and exist with a constant threat emanating from the territory of modern Ukraine," Putin said. "All responsibility for bloodshed will be on the conscience of the ruling regime in Ukraine." read more The full scope of the Russian military operation was not immediately clear but Putin said: "Our plans do not include the occupation of Ukrainian territories. We are not going to impose anything by force." Speaking as the U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting in New York, Putin said he had ordered Russian forces to protect the people and appealed to the Ukrainian military to lay down their arms. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said Russia had carried out missile strikes on Ukrainian infrastructure and border guards, and that explosions had been heard in many cities. An official also reported non-stop cyber attacks. Zelenskiy said that martial law had been declared and that he had spoken by telephone to Biden. Reservists were called up on Wednesday. Three hours after Putin gave his order, Russia's defence ministry said it had taken out military infrastructure at Ukrainian air bases and degraded its air defences, Russian media reported. Earlier, Ukrainian media reported that military command centres in Kyiv and the city of Kharkiv in the northeast had been struck by missiles while Russian troops had landed in the southern port cities of Odessa and Mariupol. A Reuters witness later heard three loud blasts in Mariupol. Russian-backed separatists said they had launched an offensive on the Ukrainian-controlled town of Shchastia in the east, Russia's Interfax news agency said, and explosions also rocked the breakaway eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk. Hours earlier, the separatists issued a plea to Moscow for help to stop alleged Ukrainian aggression - claims the United States dismissed as Russian propaganda. Global stocks and U.S. bond yields dived, while the dollar and gold rocketed higher after Putin's address. Brent oil surged past $100/barrel for the first time since 2014. 'DECISIVE WAY' Biden, who has ruled out putting U.S. troops on the ground in Ukraine, said Putin had chosen a premeditated war that would bring a catastrophic loss of life and human suffering. "Russia alone is responsible for the death and destruction this attack will bring, and the United States and its Allies and partners will respond in a united and decisive way," he said. NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg condemned Russia's "reckless and unprovoked attack" and said NATO allies would meet to tackle the consequences. U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, speaking after the Security Council meeting, made a last-minute plea to Putin to stop the war "in the name of humanity'. Ukraine closed its airspace to civilian flights citing a high risk to safety, while Europe's aviation regulator warned against the hazards to flying in bordering areas of Russia and Belarus. Russia suspended domestic flights at airports near its border with Ukraine until March 2, its aviation agency said. Shelling had intensified since Monday when Putin recognised two separatist regions as independent and ordered the deployment of what he called peacekeepers, a move the West called the start of an invasion. In response to Putin's Monday announcement, Western countries and Japan imposed sanctions on Russian banks and individuals but held off their toughest measures until an invasion began. The United States stepped up the pressure on Wednesday by imposing penalties on the Russian firm building the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline and its corporate officers. Germany on Tuesday froze approvals for the pipeline, which has been built but was not in operation, amid concern it could allow Moscow to weaponise energy supplies to Europe.
- pknerd 5y agoPutin is following the US business model: Attack on other sovereign countries to sell weapons. Though I doubt he would be as successful as the US.
- pknerd 5y agoThanks, down voters! The world remembers how US invaded Iraq, Afghanistan in recent past. Am I forgetting some country here not invaded by US in recent past?
- yumraj 5y agoI'm sure China is watching this very eagerly and taking notes. Fate of Taiwan depends on how the West and the rest of the World reacts against Russia.
- cambaceres 5y agoThe west can't do anything to stop China from incorporating Taiwan. The only thing stopping China is that they are not fully prepared yet, they will be in a few years however.
- denton-scratch 5y agoI think this is correct. China is very happy with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. But they will not subordinate their long-term strategy on Taiwan to Russian goals; Xi will stick to "slowly slowly catchee monkey". He is not a military opportunist, as Putin has shown himself to be.
- yumraj 5y ago> The west can't do anything to stop China from incorporating Taiwan. Who knows, I certainly don't. Except, I believe that Taiwan is much more important to the rest of the World than Ukraine, (no disrespect intended towards Ukraine). Also, Taiwan has been preparing for this longer and not sure but it seems they have better equipped and prepared military. Then there's the matter of about 100 miles of Taiwan Strait between them..
- cambaceres 5y agoI'm not an expert on Chinese politics either, but I've read analyzes written by people who are and their opinion is that which I stated in the parent.
- jmkni 5y agoStupid question here but why will it take China years to prepare? Taiwan is a relatively small Island, surely China is more than capable already?
- kisstheblade 5y agoWhy can't the western nations seaze all assets of the oligarchs. For example take their super yachts and drive them out to sea and blow them up as a symbolic gesture? Take control of all their appartments etc. Drive all russians out of their countries (yes it will hurt "normal" russians but so what, this is war, maybe they would start to think about their leaders a little bit more).
- galaxyLogic 5y agoDoes Putin care about possible NATO expansion? Probably yes because he can't push NATO countries around so easily. And he really likes to push countries and people around to do what he wants them to do. Think about it, he likes power so much that he has made himself the de facto dictator of Russia. People opposing him get murdered or jailed, or murdered in jail. He really likes power. He is said to be world's richest man. He loves money and power very much we can tell from his actions. If he can get more power he will take it.
- ohwellish 5y agorussian military never been in direct full scale fight with Ukrainian forces before till this morning, they have no idea where they got themselves into and what is coming to them - we will bury them all! every single one of them Our time to fight back has come - Glory to Ukraine! Слава Україні!!! update: dont get me wrong, true Russians are against this war, I have alot of friends in Russia and they ALL sending me messages of support - мы поможем вам стать свободными, братья!
- drewhk 5y agoFrom Hungary with deep shame because of our traitor government. There are many of us that are deeply disturbed with what is happening, and our government is not representative of all of us.
- ed_balls 5y agoIf Putin will take over Ukraine and the army will be in next to Hungarian's border, who will invest in Hungary? This is extremely short-sighted. I hope you will kick him out in a month.
- drewhk 5y agoMany of us are trying, trust me. Things got out of hand here, big time. If the next election is lost, I will go through half of my life (20 years!) under the rulership of one single person.
- bsd44 5y ago
- flavius29663 5y agoCompanies invested in West Germany very well before 1990, so I don't see that as a problem
- ed_balls 5y agobecause RFN has a nuclear umbrella from US. Hungary does not have one.
- tremon 5y agoPutin has no need to invade Hungary. Orban already rules the country with an iron fist and is very eager to play Putin's fiddle, I suspect. Romania has more to fear than Hungary.
- drewhk 5y ago
- hnplj 5y ago
- randomsearch 5y agoFrom a tech perspective, we should be considering the part we have played in these events. I’ve come to the conclusion that democracy cannot coexist alongside unfettered propaganda divorced from truth. That is what social media represents - Twitter and especially Facebook - machinery for manipulating people without regard to truth. Trump and Brexit have greatly harmed the West and their ability to respond to Russian aggression. Both were made possible by the social media companies. We obviously need governments to step in to heavily regulate or shut down these companies, but their employees should also be asking if they are truly making the world a better place. What we are seeing on our screens right now is the physical consequences of an asymmetric information war, aided by thousands of software developers earning large salaries.
- puffoflogic 5y agoThe US administration has been crying wolf for so many months now that I practically doubt this news.
- MrDisposable 5y agoRussian here, under a throwaway account. Putin's Russia is committing a civilizational suicide. Soon we will turn into a North Korea, completely isolated from the world, with no high-tech industry, and the only major "ally" being China. Lots of human potential will be wasted forever. This will last for 10-15 years, then Putin dies (he's not immortal). I don't see Russia being chained to China forever, so I think we are bound to repeat the process of re-opening to the world -- the same process we went through in the 1990s. I have pretty good chances of spending my entire remaining life in this predicament.
- scotty79 5y agoMove out if you can. Don't bind your future to a country under the heel of a madman.
- meijer 5y agoI hope all Russians reading this are aware how serious the situation is. The world now looks at Russia similar to how it looked at Nazi Germany in 1939. You've got to get rid of Putin.
- denton-scratch 5y agoWon't help; Putin is just playing out conventional Russian geopolitical doctrine. His successor will conduct his affairs the same way.
- meijer 5y agoNot true. What Putin does is far out of the conventional doctrine. He is attacking Russia's sister nation. He is not defending Russia's interests.
- robk 5y agoUkrainians who are looking to emigrate (temp or perm) will be handled with speed if they're applying for a UK endorsement for moving here https://technation.io/visa/ https://technation.io/visa/
- a0-prw 5y agoRussia will not accept NATO in Ukraine and have stated so explicitly and clearly. It is childish to talk about "rights". The West needs to start thinking realpolitik again. It is childish to focus on Putin. The West needs to get its head out of its arse.
- xyst 5y agoNATO needs to stop the bleeding. It's silly to think Ukraine is where it will stop. Stop pussyfooting with the sanctions and fully block trade with Russia. Might need to consider sanctions with China as well... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-24/china-refuses-to-condemn-russian-attack-deflects-blame-to-u-s https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-24/china-ref...
- vekker 5y agoIf they reacted too forcefully, that could mean retaliation by Putin and escalation of the conflict into WW3. Do we really want that? As a Belgian citizen, I'd rather not wake up to artillery fire in Brussels...
- frenchman99 5y agoSometimes, trying to be nice at first turns into deadly encounters. Sometimes, employing force early means not having to employ even more force later on. Difficult balance I guess.
- baybal2 5y ago
- dbingham 5y agoDid we learn nothing from World War 2? Appeasement doesn't work on someone like this. Only force. The only thing keeping dictators like this in check was the threat of nukes and mutually assured destruction. Apparently that has stopped working. So now what? It's not going to stop with Ukraine.
- hutrdvnj 5y agoBiden made it clear, if russians open fire on US troops (NATO), we have WW3.
- friedturkey 5y agoHistory has shown that trying to let people like Putin take chunks of land as they please doesn't end well. They don't one day decide, "Yep, that's enough! Sorry for the trouble, lads!" They see how easy it is and do it again and again until one day they're bombing your home because you're in their territory.
- Tenoke 5y agoAre there any good verified resources of primary targets for bombings in different countries? E.g. I live in Berlin and would like to know in the worst case which places are most likely to be bombed. Similar for other places I'm curious about.
- h2odragon 5y agoYou might see about volunteering for any Civil Defense type organizations you have.
- MisterSandman 5y agoI don't see why the answer wouldn't be "major cities and/or Capitol cities" in every country.
- Tenoke 5y agoThere's bases and critical equipment outside of major cities, and some major cities are more critical than others. Further, even in a city like London or Berlin it's unlikely to get the whole city - the aim would be for important targets and places further from any of those are likely much safer.
- VoodooJuJu 5y agoI never understood the good effects of American hegemony until they started breaking down. - nyokodo | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27565836 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27565836
- siliconescapee 5y agoUpdates from Russia today: - City centers are blocked by policy to prevent protests/marches - Arrests of people at protests - Volgograd airport has been closed - Russians lining up at banks to withdraw cash, bank limits put in place midway through the day
- achenet 5y agoso the Russian people aren't entirely enthusiastic about this. Maybe they'll have another revolution.
- Invictus0 5y agoWho would be enthusiastic about a 45% drop in the local currency
- hogrider 5y agoThere can be huge gains to be had, for example if the oligarchs all have all their wealth in foreign currency or large debt in the national currency.
- vixen99 5y agohttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10546799/More-150-senior-Russian-officials-sign-open-letter-condemning-Putins-invasion-Ukraine.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10546799/More-150-s... "More than 150 senior Russian officials have signed an open letter condemning Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine as 'an unprecedented atrocity' and warning of 'catastrophic consequences'."
- Qub3d 5y agoI hope none of them plan on accepting cups of tea in the near future[0]. [0]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvine...
- tim333 5y ago
- bsd44 5y ago
- sllewe 5y agoYou can keep swallowing whatever garbage your propaganda ministry is selling you. The rest of the world knows the truth.
- bsd44 5y agoYes the "rest" of the world knows the "truth". It's just a matter of defining what "the rest" and "truth" mean. In the context of the modern Axis of Evil also known as Five Eyes the "truth" is whatever the propaganda machine releases to its mass audience of intellectually handicapped people. The "truth" were the "weapons of mass destruction" where the Allies killed over 550k children only in Iraq, not counting Syria, Libya, Afghanistan. Quiet an achievement in just twenty years. Let's not talk about killing children in Serbia in 1999, keeping Cuba isolated for over fifty years, having English aristocracy go on man-hunts in Africa in the 1980s... "truth" is a very funny word nowadays.
- artem247 5y agoUkraine is not a western country, not a part of any pact, not a part of EU. No western country is protecting Ukraine. How things that West done are somehow connected to Putin’s desire to challenge the sovereignty of his neighbor? Don’t live in black and white world with good guys and bad guys.
- stewx 5y agoThe idea that Russia was under threat of attack from Ukraine is laughable. These are absurd Kremlin talking points.
- waffleiron 5y agoUS very recently threatened decisive action if Russia would station troops/missiles in Venezuela or Cuba. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/14/russia-threatens-latin-america-troop-deployments-amid-us-tensions https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/14/russia-threatens-la...
- black_puppydog 5y ago> Biden praying for victims of 'unprovoked' attack I think there should be a line added to the press codices of this world to never ever let this kind of meaningless "thoughts and prayers" line be transported. A politician should not even put it in their press releases, knowing that nobody will print it. As a citizen, thoughts and prayers might be all you can do. As a politician, it's your damn job to do things. Thoughts and prayers won't cut it.
- hnthrowaway0315 5y agoIs this the beginning of end?
- belter 5y ago"How to help the people of Ukraine: things you can do" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30454181 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30454181
- formvoltron 5y agoPutin is an absolute mad man. The West should have taken him out a long time ago. It's doubtful anyone who replaced him would be so crazy.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoThe interesting thing is that this wouldn’t have happened if the US hadn’t gotten rid of Ukraine’s nukes and promised to protect them after they got rid of them.
- jevgeni 5y agoUSA, UK and Russia - those were the parties of the Budapest memorandum.
- Otek 5y agoUS, and UK and Russia never agreed to "protect" Ukraine in exchange of their nukes, but that they won't attack them. US and UK didn't broke it, Russia did. But it's arguable that this deal was ever good for Ukraine, only for Putin so far.
- M0r13n 5y agoWhat would happen if the western tech giants decide to shutdown every service in russia? No AWS, no GCP, no peering, etc. I am pretty sure, that most companies in russia rely on western infrastructur in some way. Also it would be pretty hard for russia to keep spreading fake news. I guess that Putin would loose his remaining following if the smartphones of the population became useless.
- miniatureape 5y agoWhat is the best way to help people in Ukraine? Are there charities or organizations that I can donate to?
- wyiske 5y agoNot sure if this has been shared, but Yuval Harari, eloquently explains why everyone should care about this, the first invasion of a democratic peaceful country in my memory https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2022/02/09/yuval-noah-harari-argues-that-whats-at-stake-in-ukraine-is-the-direction-of-human-history https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2022/02/09/yuval-noa...
- adamors 5y agoNon-paywalled version: https://outline.com/pbz4uv https://outline.com/pbz4uv
- llarsson 5y agoDisable Javascript to circumvent the paywall if you want to read this.
- GiorgioG 5y agoOur collective cowardice and inability to avoid repeating mistakes of the past (Poland) will come back to bite us in the ass. "But, but he has nukes!" - sure, and he'll still have nukes if/when they invade Poland, Romania, and the rest of Europe too - so let's just give him a pass. Next we'll give China a pass when they "take back" Taiwan.
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- Invictus0 5y agoA lot of HN commenters looking really stupid today after this thread a few weeks ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30220841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30220841
- reddog 5y agoSome economic perspective. The Russian economy is 10x the size of the Ukrainian. The US economy is 14x larger than Russia's. The Canadian economy is larger than Russia's. The combined economy of all of NATO is 25x the size of Russia's. This does not even include Pacific allies like Japan and ANZUS. For historical perspective, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor the US economy was 7x larger than theirs. At the end of WW2 the red army had 12 million soldiers in uniform compared to the estimated 120K Russian soldiers now invading Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...
- Cthulhu_ 5y agoA country's economy may be a good indication of how long a battle of attrition would last, possibly, but at the same time, money is not really that important if you mobilize a country and have the raw resources. Or if you already have nukes ready to go.
- lordnacho 5y agoWhat you seem to be saying is that we should be willing to fight, but it's not been long since our last involvement. How big is the Afghan economy in relation to the West?
- phkahler 5y ago>> What you seem to be saying is that we should be willing to fight... Who is this "we"? For all the condemnation and claims about sanctions, everyone saw this coming and did not a damn thing. If sanctions actually are imposed, Putin can just turn off the gas to Europe. If anyone wants to engage militarily (and Europeans rightly had enough of that) they have to worry about nuclear weapons. I see this as a big eye opener to the other European "Union" countries when they see nobody actually has Ukraine's back.
- DFHippie 5y agoUkraine is in neither the EU nor NATO. That was what this whole conflict ostensibly was about: Ukraine gaining allies and support outside Russia's control.
- unersame 5y ago.
- MisterTea 5y agoWell Russia invaded firing the first shots so those missiles are in fact necessary.
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- tablespoon 5y ago> If you follow the news agenda in Russian news agencies you will notice that Putin has placed a lot of blame on the latest negotiations. Apparently no one was willing to negotiate and he went for broke. Most of Russia's demands were unreasonable nonstarters. IIRC, he demanded NATO pull troops out of some EU countries. Saying "no one was willing to negotiate" is very misleading. It's victim blaming, like saying a mugger was justified in shooting his victim because he wasn't willing to negotiate over the mugger's demand he hand over his cash.
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- efitz 5y agoThe globalists have been telling me for years that we are post-national, that borders are obsolete, etc. We have seen mass migration from the Middle East to Europe, and from central and South America to the US, and we’ve been told that this is good. Now I’m supposed to actually care about a Westphalian nation state? I don’t get it.
- artem247 5y agoThe real world is not some intellectual tongue in cheek discussion between liberals and conservatives. It is no surprise for me that westerners couldn’t care less about suffering of “other people”. You don’t need to invent complicated reasons why you do not care biggest war in Europe since 1940’s, or the lives of Eastern Europeans.
- efitz 5y agoI never said I didn’t care about the suffering of other people. I said I don’t care about Ukraine. I’ve read the CIA world fact book entry on it; I’ve listened to a lot of the rhetoric, and I just fail to see any interest there compelling enough to make me support war with Russia. If “suffering” is the bar for involvement, why didn’t we do anything about Rwanda? Why is it unethical for me not to support involvement in yet another war, when I’ve been lectured for the last two decades about how bad it is for my country to go to war. Seems like cherry picking. The American public is tired of wars and the USA is not in financial shape to begin a multi trillion dollar war, especially if there is no compelling national interest. If Europe cares, let them fight the war. If Putin attacks a NATO country then we should fulfill our treaty obligations. Other than that, we can’t fix all the problems in the world. Besides, we are extremely likely to end up in a war with China when they invade Taiwan; we do have a national interest there (semiconductor fabrication) and we can’t afford to be bogged down in Ukraine with that looming.
- hogrider 5y agoWow, I mean pushing for immigration never meant abandoning the nation state way to kill a strawman.
- VoodooJuJu 5y agoWhat is the endgame here? Russia is outclassed by NATO both economically and militarily. If NATO intervenes economically, Russia will lose much. If NATO intervenes militarily, Russia will lose much (but at great cost to NATO). The risk of NATO intervention is high, right? Russia understood this before invading, right? So it seems Russia is accepting a high risk of loss. But it doesn't make sense that a nation as sophisticated as Russia would accept such a high risk of loss. Which means that they might actually believe the risk of NATO intervention is low. How could the risk be low without some kind of collusion or hidden knowledge (hidden from us common folk)? Are "they" ("the global elite", "the military industrial complex") all "in it" (profiting) together? Is Russia just suicidal? If (when?) Russia loses out, how do they react?
- kraig911 5y agoEconomically I'd say the oligarchy is so wealthy and diversified in Russia that it doesn't hurt them that much. Russia does have much to gain in this and yeah it could lose some money. It's a shot across the bow for western political alliances. Let's hope it stays that way.
- BurningFrog 5y agoRussia has thousands of nuclear missiles. This makes them immune to NATO invasion.
- enahs-sf 5y agoI feel like people always forget this is an option.
- VoodooJuJu 5y agoI had this mind as I wrote up my post but didn't mention it because I didn't consider the nuclear option as a serious option. Or maybe I'm just optimistic/delusional. But how would the nuclear option play out? Here I am, a Russian oligarch. I ordered the Ukrainian invasion because I bet that NATO wouldn't intervene because of my nukes. But it turns out I was wrong and NATO is pushing back my invasion. So I fire some nukes. But then they fire nukes back at me. ???? Did I profit?
- throwaway374533 5y ago
- hnthrowaway0315 5y agoWhat I'm thinking is, if Russia moves forward a few more days, maybe Poland will move as well. Lvov, anyone?
- the__alchemist 5y agohttps://liveuamap.com/ https://liveuamap.com/ - Probably the best source for live coverage
- cambaceres 5y agoThey need to buy more CPUs
- mleg 5y agoAnother Russian here. I don't agree and don't support this action. We anticipate long years if not decades of isolation, even more stagnating economy, even more authoritarian government. By all means it's a terrible thing. For both Russians and Ucrainians alike. But... The drama around it as portrayed in Western media is ridiculous. There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. It would be no more war than it was in Crimea in 2014. I don't justify. It's a political disaster but not a humanitarian one.
- nikolayasdf123 5y ago
- MadeThisToReply 5y agoHe's not a native speaker and his native language doesn't even use the Latin alphabet. Give him a break.
- throwawayloco 5y ago
- jacquesm 5y ago> There won't be major loss of life nor any "war" in conventional sense. That's a bit premature. As for the rest: Russians could rise en-masse to put a stop to this. Call a general strike all over Russia tomorrow and you might be able to avoid those decades of isolation and stagnating economy.
- zthrowaway 5y ago> That's a bit premature. I don't think so when looking at what has happened historically. Also, until Putin attacks NATO territory (which he most likely won't) there's not going to be an all out war. We in the West are being a bit hyperbolic. This is a serious issue, but not a "omg nukes are going to be flying next week" level of seriousness. I'd instead watch what China will do with Taiwan while we are distracted... Russia isn't some democracy that is cool with protesting. There are plenty of Russian's living there that are still USSR brainwashed and support this.
- welklkr 5y ago
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- welklkr 5y ago
- welklkr 5y ago[dead]
- newbamboo 5y agoWe should send Hunter back over there and see if he can’t fix this mess.
- swayvil 5y agoMaybe it's a distraction. Mainstream media is already using it as justification for the present extreme inflation in usa.
- TremendousJudge 5y agoThis is the most self-centered take I've read all day.
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- Borrible 5y agoOh, that? That's simply the strategy of Mad Men. The problem is, he really is mad and has thousands of nukes. The self induced detachment from reality like Angela Merkel suspected in 2014. In reality a corrupt second class paranoid ward boss of a corrupt second class paranoid former major power. With thousands of nukes. And he probably thinks his time is running out to establish a Russian empire in his lifetime. Despite thousands of nukes. Do you recognize the repeating pattern above? Thousands of nukes. So yes, he will use nukes if there is no other option left. There will be a Russian Empire or there will be nothing. Your choice. Pray some fraction from the Russian power apparatus eliminates him in time. But I doubt, there is anyone left, not infected by the same illusion.
- coryfklein 5y agoCan anyone explain why Putin wants Ukraine so badly? Is it natural resources, geography, or simply a "the country must grow" mindset?
- neop1x 5y agoMaybe he fears that Ukraine would join EU, NATO and people there would live happier life than people in Russia. And maybe their russian state propaganda is not working as well as they would like in today's interconnected global world. Maybe he is sad that he is getting old. Only he really knows. But IMO he will lose more than gain from this invasion.
- cdot2 5y agoAccess to the Mediterranean would be the traditional reason Russia has wanted to control Ukraine
- maybelsyrup 5y agoI love threads like these bc it really makes clear how knowing like 2 years' worth of C++ turns you into the world's greatest strategic genius
- holoduke 5y agoMeanwhile China is observing and giving green light for operation Taiwan.
- gxt 5y agoStupid question, why doesn't NATO extends membership to Russia if it were to match accepted/existing criteria on corruption control, free press, free elections, etc. Putin never will accept, but Russians surely aren't all Putin's buddies...
- simonh 5y agoA quarter of the EU's grain imports come from Ukraine, and they're a big supplier to Turkey and the rest of the Middle East and Africa. Germany also depends on Russian gas. None of that matters though, Putin is at war with us. We should wake up and go to war with him back, something we've avoided. Wars are costly, but this one doesn't have to cost lives. NATO isn't going to send troops into Ukraine, but we should economically shut down Russia. Kick them off Swift, close the gas and oil pipelines. Eat the cost. Germany's gas infrastructure is much better integrated to the rest of Europe now than it was a few years ago, and the EU has extensive emergency reserves. We're also coming out of winter soon. We'll just have to buy more cereal from the US. Prices will go up, jobs will be impacted, but solders won't be dying. Not yet. If we don't bite the bullet and accept the pain now, this is only going to get worse. What's next, Georgia? Kazakhstan? Finland isn't in NATO. If China sees we're soft on Russia, what does that mean for Taiwan? We need to wage all out economic war. The cost of doing nothing has gone up, and up, and up. How high are we prepared to see it go?
- hansoolo 5y agoI so much agree with you!
- frigatepilot 5y ago
- ifokiedoke 5y agoThere's some real vitriol here and comments bordering on being open discriminatory attacks ("Russia is a wasteland of civilization and we should just nuke them", "stop drinking Vodka, Sergei"). I hope that folks remember that the state isn't the Russian citizenry, and even if there is a minority support for this in the country it doesn't represent the people... _especially_ when the leader is a murderous autocrat. This is a disaster and heartbreaking for everybody on the ground, Ukrainian and otherwise. We shouldn't forget that when the USSR fell, folks had moved all over the place. Friends and families are very blended in the former Soviet Union, and there are many, many Ukranian-Russians as well. My wife was born Russian-Estonian, with a lot of Russian-Ukranian family, and it's unhelpful to have one half of your heritage bombed and the other half being called the wasteland of civilization. Don't make the situation for everyone even worse, no one needs that.
- PoignardAzur 5y agoYeah. There's a lot of cause for vitriol, but it shouldn't come out as dehumanizing attacks against Russian people. Whether or not the Russian people supports the war, using racist slurs doesn't help the peace process.
- CogitoCogito 5y agoI feel bad for the innocent Russians receiving unwarranted vitriol, but I feel much worse for the innocent Ukrainians currently being killed.
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- walkhour 5y agoPutin's approval rating is at 70% [0]. From [1] (referring to the invasion of Crimea): > President Putin's approval rating among the Russian public increased by nearly 10% since the crisis began, up to 71.6%, the highest in three years, according to a poll conducted by the All-Russian Center for Public Opinion Research, released on 19 March.[346] Additionally, the same poll showed that more than 90% of Russians supported unification with the Crimean Republic So it looks to me that most Russians supported the Crimea invasion. Why would it be different now? Why do you think a minority supports this? [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-ra... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_...
- jrx 5y agoMy reasoning here is as follows: Putin doesn't care about money - he has all the money he needs. He doesn't also care about welfare of average Russian citizens as long as he can stay within power. He cares mostly about staying in power and by extension about others perceiving him as a good leader. It is incredibly obvious to me that dictators don't end well when they lose their power. I assume losing power is as bad outcome for Putin, game-theoretically as getting Russia nuked to the ground. Over the last 30 years Russia was progressively losing ground within its' sphere of influence. Poland, Ukraine even Belarus are slowly fading further and further away. All the context for today we need is the Orange Revolution, Euromaidan and recent protests in Belarus which show high level of anti-russian and pro-western sentiment among society of these countries. When those countries turn fully pro-western, with relatively wealthier and happier citizenry, it's a matter of days rather than years when the same sentiments will reach Russia, leading to a quick change in Russia's top-level government. If Putin wants to stay in power, he must convince people in Ukraine and Belarus that it's in their best interest to stay on his side. And lethal force is really the only tool he has at his disposal for it. So his options really are: - Hope that he can cling to some remaining bits of power until a reasonably peaceful end of life and be aware that probably soon afterwards Russia will start turning pro-democratic. - Do whatever is within his control to keep Ukraine and Belarus subdued. Weighing pros and cons in this particularly hard situation, he must have chosen that option number two has a higher EV to keep him in power for longer. What can happen now: - (best scenario for the democratic world) Ukrainian forces manage to defend themselves from the offensive. That basically means Russia's collapse as it is today. It's probably in the best interest of many western democracies to maximize the probability of this outcome, but I'm not sure how probable it is really. - (worst scenario for the democratic world) Ukraine is taken over completely very quickly with minimal Russian cost and loss. World doesn't really have a chance to react. Russia weathers sanctions ok and gets into closer ties with China. - Russia cripples Ukraine military, the war drags on guerilla-style. Russia manages to successfully occupy part of the country and the rest becomes warzone wasteland. Russia saves face, Ukraine and Belarus and under complete control. - War drags on and Russian can't continue with the cost of it. Ukraine gets severely weakened but manages some resemblance of independence while Russia occupies only very minor territories. May be enough for Russia to save face, but I would bet not really and it would lead to another scenario where Russian government collapses. - Western allies get involved in the conflict, but none of the sides decide to use nukes. Russian military will get destroyed and Russian government collapses. - (worst scenario for the whole world) Western allies get involved in the conflict, and one of the sides decide to use nukes. Humanity's development gets moved back hundreds of years. - China and Russia are in active cooperation. Russia will keep escalating the war in Europe until one or all western nations engages. On that day China begins offensive on Taiwan and attacks US. WW3 starts. I believe in most of the countries in the world military command is playing out all of those and many more potential scenarios. I would like to live in more boring times.
- Zanneth 5y agoCan anyone provide a non-biased explanation about why this is happening? Why is Russia carrying out this attack?
- vernie 5y agoNon-biased answer: only Putin knows.
- neop1x 5y agoIt appears that Putin is a psychopath. He said that Ukraine is run by narcomans and fashists (obviously a total nonsense) and that he fears NATO presence in nearby countries and he doesn't "feel" safe. He said that disintegration of the Soviet Union was biggest mistake in history and he would like it back. He violated earlier agreements and attacked Ukraine while giving fictional propaganda reasons. It started on the east, where higher concentration of pro-russion rebels lived. But despite not having real reasons he attacked Ukraine as a whole. After he lied that it was just an exercise and they won't start the attack. He is a mad terrorist and his brain processes can't easily be explained. Maybe he feared that Ukraine would join NATO and EU and that Russian people would see that ukrainians can live a better life and prosper more and didn't want this to happen. Or maybe he was mad about economic stagnation of Russia and their incompetence so he wanted to show the world that he still has power. Maybe this idiot wants to provoke world war III... Only he knows.
- LoveMortuus 5y ago