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U.S. investors, Trump close in on TikTok deal with China

• jamescontrol 1y ago
  How will this not be used by trump/republicans?
  • herbst 1y ago
    Did anyone say it won't? Welcome to America the land of trump
• elzbardico 1y ago
  Oracle owning TikTok is one of the most unintentionally funny things to ever happen.
  • polishdude20 1y ago
    It's like a 100 year old with hardware crypto wallet.
    • abirch 1y ago
      Not sure why I thought of Bill Belichick
  • oldpersonintx2 1y ago
    [dead]
  • palmotea 1y ago
    > Oracle owning TikTok is one of the most unintentionally funny things to ever happen. I'm hopeful. With any luck they'll ruin TikTok and it will die, a satisfying result.
    • elzbardico 1y ago
      First they will start launching TikTok Enterprise. An all-buzzwords compliant subscription based solution for enterprise and professional content creators.
    • kilroy123 1y ago
      I immediately had the same thought. One can hope!
    • scythe 1y ago
      The "good" news is that they will only own the US operations, with the ROTW continuing to be operated by ByteDance. So if they diverge too far from the original product we can expect to see a discussion about life behind the Great Firewall of America.
    • jerojero 1y ago
      why do people hate TikTok as a product so much? if TikTok dies then one of the alternatives: instagram reels or youtube shorts would take its place. the brainrot will be the same. I guess people think tiktok's algorithm is particularly pervasive over Google's or Meta's? But I don't see why.
      • pests 1y ago
        For me it’s the potential china influence. Reels and Shorts is at least American and I already have established relations with both companies. Are we for sure the TikTok algorithm doesn’t bump towards or away from certain issues? The data on the cultural zeitgeist? The ability to promote political messaging? Brainrot the same. Intentions, maybe not.
        • jerojero 1y ago
          People keep saying this but shouldn't it be kinda trivially easy to check? Start new accounts, swipe through the content and establish what kind of algorithm it is. The few attempts I've seen on youtube seem to indicate it's heavily based on your geographical area. They don't really care that much which side the apple falls onto. I do acknowledge that there's a latent threat that could be activated. And I can see an argument being made on that front, I mean, China doesn't allow access to a lot of American social media for that reason. But I don't really buy the argument right now as I haven't seen a lot of evidence of Tiktok doing things that Meta/Google haven't done.
  • dessimus 1y ago
    Users better be running now before they get hit with those new licensing fees. Oracle: "Your phone has 6-cores and our minimum plan is 64 cores. Additionally, we see you upgraded from an iPhone 16 to the 17. Licenses don't transfer, of course. You owe us 3 kidneys."
  • 1270018080 1y ago
    I've always been fine with Tiktok dying, surely that will be expedited under their leadership
• drewbitt 1y ago
  Reminds me of Yahoo buying Tumblr. Mismatched. Their best bet is to change little to nothing, but not sure the administration will let them.
  • jerojero 1y ago
    It does seem mismatched but it's also an opportunity for Oracle to become relevant in the space, if they handle it right. Though yeah, if they go the Yahoo-route it's going to be a huge waste. But it's really up to how the company handles the acquisition. Yahoo missed big time by just trying to change the culture of the userbase way too quickly. They didn't like that people were posting porn on Tumblr when that was one of the most important aspects of the platform for the users. They bled way too many users and took way too long of a time to do anything about it. I feel like Tumblr should have done their own patreon/OF type of push within the platform but they didn't have the vision. They literally had all the creators of that type of content at some point and they've now all moved to X/Twitter. I hope (i mean, idgaf but you know it's a figure of speech) that Oracle has a better perspective about the issue so they don't commit another billion(s) dollar(s) crime.
    • rs186 1y ago
      That never worked. Google had Google+ which was a massive failure. Facebook tried releasing a product for workplace communication named Workplace/Facebook at Work and that is almost dead. Microsoft has been eyeing a social media platform for years, and the only relevant product that I am aware of is Viva Engage (formerly Yammer) that is not very good in my opinion. Oracle has never ever had any product that targets mainstream consumers. They always focused on enterprise products and don't understand consumers. Just like Microsoft never released a hardware product that matches iPhone's success, or Apple never has any enterprise product that remotely competes with Office. It's not in their gene. They'll be lucky enough if they don't run it into the ground.
• hollerith 1y ago
  >A new company will be created to operate TikTok, with U.S. investors holding a roughly 80% stake and Chinese shareholders owning the rest, the report said. It would've been better for the mental health of our country if it had been banned (along with Instagram Reels and Youtube Shorts).
  • acheron 1y ago
    The good news is, I can’t see “being owned by Oracle” as anything other than a death sentence.
    • miohtama 1y ago
      LawyerTok
    • SilverElfin 1y ago
      I doubt it. Oracle has a booming datacenter and cloud business right now. Their role is to host the data in a US jurisdiction, which they can do. It won’t affect the success or failure of TikTok. And frankly it won’t give TikTok users privacy since the data can still be accessed by software written by Chinese employees.
      • bl4kers 1y ago
        > since the data can still be accessed by software written by Chinese employees. Source?
      • archerx 1y ago
        Yea, I’m sure the sociopaths at oracle have the fingers on the pulse of the younger generations. They’re just going to up the censorship and enshittfy it resulting in its users moving on the next new thing.
        • Jensson 1y ago
          Oracle hosts data for many corporations, I don't think they will have any moderation input.
• SilverElfin 1y ago
  What does this “stake” get America at all? Will they be able to change the algorithms or censorship or amplification on TikTok? The point of the ban was to avoid national security issues from having an adversarial state (China) controlling speech in America. Banning it entirely is the best way to avoid these problems. As a reminder, TikTok forces staff to sign pledges to support China’s political system in order to work there and get stock awards: https://dailycaller.com/2025/01/14/tiktok-forced-staff-oaths-china-socialist-system-court-documents/ https://dailycaller.com/2025/01/14/tiktok-forced-staff-oaths...
  • Fade_Dance 1y ago
    >Banning it entirely is the best way to avoid these problems. Too popular to ban. Political constraints. >Will they be able to change the algorithms or censorship or amplification on TikTok? "An Asia-based investor of ByteDance said the new US TikTok entity would use at least part of the Chinese algorithm but train it in the US on American user data." ________________ I'm not sure you're looking at this the right way though. This isn't some conclusion of a search for the optimal way to address the situation (which would probably be an actual digital privacy framework). The ban couldn't go through because the app was too popular and Trump liked the attention he was getting on it. So if the ban has to be backed out of, what's the second best option? A "deal" of course, from the world's best deal maker. It's no more complicated than that. The Intel stake is the same - barely thought out. If you haven't noticed, this has been a common theme in many policy decisions lately.
    • nemothekid 1y ago
      >(which would probably be an actual digital privacy framework) The ban wasn't executed on digital privacy concerns. The intent of the original ban was on digital privacy concerns, and that was shot down. >The Intel stake is the same - barely thought out. If you haven't noticed, this has been a common theme in many policy decisions lately. The TikTok ban passed under Biden, and the ball was kicked to Trump so he would deal with the political fallout. But the reason the ban passed the second time around was because China would not censor content about the Gaza genocide. The ban had no legs until October 7th and TikTok frustrated the US/Israel message that Hamas was homicidal terrorist group that spawned from no where. What seems obvious is that, yes, the new TikTok, will fall in line with other US owned social media companies when it comes to spreading US propoganda. So while Chinese social networks have "What happened in tiananmen square?", US social networks will have "Is Israel committing a genocide?".
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• HackerThemAll 1y ago
  Oracle is then going to mandate license fees from every user, together with 22% support fees with 8% increase every year. They'll then rewrite TikTok in Java, and migrate to Oracle Database.
  • 1970-01-01 1y ago
    The Android .APK files are already Java.
    • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
      To be fair, that doesn't mean they can't be re-written in Java.
    • palmotea 1y ago
      IIRC, but I read the TikTok app is mostly WebViews, which was a design choice to help keep it functioning in the face of an App Store ban.
      • anon1395 1y ago
        IIRC TikTok is built using their own framework, https://lynxjs.org/ https://lynxjs.org/
        • giancarlostoro 1y ago
          I totally forgot about this... I might have to look at it again. Thank you.
  • lupusreal 1y ago
    They're going to send thugs into businesses demanding to see if any of their employees are secretly using TikTok on company time, then demand the business buy a million dollar corporate license.
  • cosmicgadget 1y ago
    The Enoracleification of Tiktok.
• Tarsul 1y ago
  so US users will be cut off from the rest of the world? Wow. Thats crazy.
  • TranquilMarmot 1y ago
    TikTok in China is already cut off from the rest of the world. The US is just copying China's homework.
    • lukewrites 1y ago
      We are doing state capitalism without China’s “serve the people” bit. Hm, maybe there’s a name for that type of government, idk.
      • morkalork 1y ago
        Careful now, you don't want to accused of spreading hate speech
      • palmotea 1y ago
        > We are doing state capitalism without China’s “serve the people” bit. Hm, maybe there’s a name for that type of government, idk. Except China doesn't actually serve its people. Things are way more cut-throat there, with much less safety net. The Chinese government sees workers as grist for the mill, not something to be cared for.
        • johnisgood 1y ago
          > The Chinese government sees workers as grist for the mill, not something to be cared for. I think this is universal, but perhaps China indeed may be worse.
          • tsunamifury 1y ago
            There is a significant difference in a population of 70 million educated workers who need to be maintained for high performance and 400 million low skill workers who are highly replaceable. I am trying to make no judgement here, just explaining then 'motivational environment' This math of course is in flux to a degree we haven't seen in maybe 1000+ years though right now.
• tensorlibb 1y ago
  I think this is a massively good step forward. However, TikTok is still a brain rot slop machine and we would be right to question Ellison's motivations.
• slg 1y ago
  Sometimes I'm truly baffled over the stories that the HN readership ends up mostly ignoring. When I heard about this news elsewhere, I came here fully expecting this to be high on the front page with hundreds of comments discussing it. For comparison's sake, the story about Tiktok shutting down[1] and then restoring service[2] in the US each had over 2500 comments. Meanwhile, 3 hours after this story was posted, this is the 14th comment. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42753396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42753396 [2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42759336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42759336
  • TillE 1y ago
    Frustratingly I can't recall specific examples, but in the past year there have been several major discussion-worthy tech stories I've seen on The Verge or wherever, and I come to HN a couple hours later and there's either literally nothing or the post got zero interaction. Strange!
  • ChrisArchitect 1y ago
    Not really news in this state. Because other than a few more details here it's not any different than the story from last week (which we knew Oracle was in the mix etc). The deal isn't final.
    • slg 1y ago
      It is funny to say this as if there was some past story on here that everyone saw. In the last month, the story about a potential TikTok deal with the most engagement maxed out at 3 comments and 17 points[1]. This is probably the most important news in the social media sphere since Musk bought Twitter and the HN audience doesn't care about it until contracts are signed? That's pretty unbelievable. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45249430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45249430
    • metalman 1y ago
      details, NO algorythm, Trumpy, China, Money, Twitteresque user base revolt....or worse so it's very much as you state, non final
• bix6 1y ago
  > one member designated by the US government. Why does the board of TikTok need a gov member? Is Meta going to get a gov chaperone too? And Oracle surely needs one as well. Is the gov putting out a call for board member civil servants? Like where does this person even come from?
  • duxup 1y ago
    Same reason they put a guy at CBS as a "bias monitor": https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-fcc-cbs-news-bias-censorship-60-minutes-rcna224423 https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-fcc-cbs-ne... They want their guy to make sure things go their way / people say the "right" things.
    • piva00 1y ago
      Didn't expect to see the USA employing press censors in my lifetime but here we are. In Brazil during the dictatorship it was common for newspapers to print cooking recipes in place of censored articles, now I'm waiting to see if media in the USA has the balls to play the malicious compliance game... I guess I won't see it since money is basically God in America.
      • xboxnolifes 1y ago
        One could argue they're not the same, but there has been TV broadcast censors for decades in the US. They were still least following somewhat defined laws though.
        • tempodox 1y ago
          > They were still least following somewhat defined laws though. I expect them to continue to do so, except that uncle Donald is the law now.
    • throw310822 1y ago
      > a guy at CBS as a "bias monitor" Kenneth Weinstein. "Mr. Weinstein has had a long career in right-leaning and neoconservative public policy circles. He is a firm and vocal champion of Israel." (NyTimes)
• ChrisArchitect 1y ago
  Source: https://www.wsj.com/tech/details-emerge-on-u-s-china-tiktok-deal-594e009f https://www.wsj.com/tech/details-emerge-on-u-s-china-tiktok-... (which has a clearer title that's not that much different than days ago news: U.S. Investors, Trump Close In on TikTok Deal With China)
  • dang 1y ago
    We changed the URL from https://www.reuters.com/world/china/oracle-silver-lake-consortium-control-80-stake-tiktok-us-wsj-reports-2025-09-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/oracle-silver-lake-conso... to the article that it points to.
    • anon1395 1y ago
      dang why can't I downvote comments
      • dang 1y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
        • anon1395 1y ago
          what is this threshold?
• k310 1y ago
  The party of laissez-faire capitalism is now into "let's interfere", with government ownership, presence within companies and of course, dropping the hammer on "unpatriotic" speech, a kind of Amended First Amendment. 10 Small Steps: Executing the Fascist Playbook [0] The Fascists’ Playbook [1] [0] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/10-small-steps-executing-the-fascist-playbook_b_585dfec2e4b04d7df167cfab https://www.huffpost.com/entry/10-small-steps-executing-the-... [1] https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/05/08/the-fascists-playbook/ https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/05/08/the-fascists-playboo...
  • Vegenoid 1y ago
    You can’t call them fascists - that’s dangerous, illegal rhetoric that incites violence.
• nodejs_in_2025 1y ago
  [flagged]
  • otterley 1y ago
    Why is it that for nearly every story involving a Jewish name, someone has to come in and complain about Israel? Besides, there are plenty of venues to criticize Israeli policy and actions, especially if you do so respectfully.
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• sun_fresh 1y ago
  So finally all that pesky people saying that their own government is funding a brutal genocide with their tax dollars will be banned. American media is one of the most thightly controlled and censored in the world. They need to carefully control the media to maintain the ilusion of "moral superiority" that is used to justify foreign interventions.
  • camdroidw 1y ago
    [dead]
• Justsignedup 1y ago
  The most terrifying thing is there will be a trump-government representative in the governing body. We are truly looking at 1984 as a blueprint not a warning.
  • adastra22 1y ago
    You can just not use TikTok.
    • OKRainbowKid 1y ago
      That doesn't diminish the impact it has on the rest of humanity, and by proxy, on me.
      • andsoitis 1y ago
        Wouldn't it be better if fewer people used TikTok, given negative impact of social media on individuals and society? Wouldn't it be better if these investors lose money on this investment?
        • mrbombastic 1y ago
          Yes but how likely do you think it is that that will happen?
        • A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
          Depends. Better as a word is a little too wide to interpret accurately without some additional information to go on. For example, if you look at my post history, you will know that I am not too keen on social media in general. From that perspective, it could be interpreted as a win. And yet, I think most of us here recognize the development as a whole is not 'good' ( since we are going with generic, not-easily-defined verbiage ).
    • cookiengineer 1y ago
      The problem with that rhetoric is that at some point you need social media to prove legitimacy of your identity. It already happens at border controls and TSA checks. Guess when that "you can just not use TikTok" argument will expand to "you can just not use the internet" and effectively be punished monetarily or socially for not wanting to use it.
• greekrich92 1y ago
  >Current users of the app will be asked to shift to a new app So it's just going to fade into obscurity then huh
  • reaperducer 1y ago
    So it's just going to fade into obscurity then huh We won't be so lucky.
    • cjbgkagh 1y ago
      What's to stop ByteDance from waiting a while and making a new TikTok app under a different name? The network effect moats do not seem insurmountable. I'm sure once the US starts meddling with the algorithm people will start looking for alternatives.
      • basisword 1y ago
        >> What's to stop ByteDance from waiting a while and making a new TikTok app under a different name? I'm sure this deal is more complex than "ByteDance is not allowed to run an app called TikTok within the US". Politicians are morons so I could be wrong but I would hope it's much more liberal than that.
• tw04 1y ago
  I hope this is sounding alarm bells for everyone else as much as me. Larry's son buys Paramount (CBS) and promptly fires Stephen Colbert, a money making machine who was leading his timeslot as what was, in hindsight, a clear message to everyone that nobody is safe if they don't fall in line. Larry now gets TikTok, which like it or not is the most influential social media platform among today's youth. Both are Trump fanatics. This is the next stage in the Ailes playbook that has already gone too far in ruining the American experiment.
  • otterley 1y ago
    > Stephen Colbert, a money making machine Unfortunately not: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/18/business/media/stephen-colbert-late-show-cbs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/18/business/media/stephen-co...
    • deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    • tw04 1y ago
      Yes, as with all well-run businesses, it's common to terminate your flagship products due to one down year without any attempts to fix cost overruns. There's a reason the people at CBS keep leaking that it lost $50m last year but don't tell you how much it lost or made the previous 5 years, they just say "viewership was down since COVID". https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/07/20/wsj-late-night-ad-revenue https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/07/20/wsj-late-night-...
  • firesteelrain 1y ago
    Stephen Colbert shutting down was explained otherwise when it happened. [1] https://www.natesilver.net/p/why-colbert-got-canceled https://www.natesilver.net/p/why-colbert-got-canceled
    • conductr 1y ago
      Conjecture. But, since the article says Colbert has 10 months left, I think this would be a awesome turn of events if they canceled his show for political reasons (to get Trump's FCC approval) only to ultimately keep the show now that the FCC has approved the deal. That would be the purest form of beating Trump at his own game.
• volleyball 1y ago
  So Larry Ellison just took over Paramount group which is now looking to bid for Warner Brothers and CNN. And now Ellison is going to take over TikTok. Paramount(being run by Larry Ellison's son) is looking to install the pro-israel-propagandist who has variously masqueraded as a liberal, a conservative and anti-woke free-speech champion, Bari Weiss[1] as CBS's editor-in-chief or co-president[2]. It also bears mentioning that Ellison is a life-long zionist, friend of the IDF and close personal friend of Netanyahu to whom he even offered a post at Oracle.[3] This very much looks like a hostile take-over of the American mind by a tech billionaire who just overtook Elon Musk to become the world's richest man. People should be talking about whether they want to go through this all over again. [1] - https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-falsely-denies-her-years-of-attacks-on-the-academic-freedom-of-arab-scholars-who-criticize-israel/ https://theintercept.com/2018/03/08/the-nyts-bari-weiss-fals... [2] - https://archive.is/20250916040811/https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/10/business/media/cbs-news-bari-weiss-free-press.html https://archive.is/20250916040811/https://www.nytimes.com/20... [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Larry_Ellison&oldid=1311558388#Political_involvement https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Larry_Ellison&old...
  • ecshafer 1y ago
    [flagged]
    • tensor 1y ago
      The consolidation of US media under a small number of right wing owners is an easily verifiable fact, not some conspiracy. Also, it's bad. Free markets need diversity, both in products AND in ideas.
    • TSiege 1y ago
      Is the argument that the Larry Ellison doesn't have huge sway over the companies he's owns outright or in part, or that saying him and Elon Musk have outsized control over America's information environment is conspiratorial? Either seem laughably wrong since these things are all public information
• ulfw 1y ago
  Why would any company want to operate in America, sell to Americans or onboard American users anymore? If you're not successful you just wasted a ton of time and money. If you are successful the newUSA will force you to divest what you've build against your will. Doesn't sound like a country worth investing in anymore.
  • bluecalm 1y ago
    Because it's the biggest market. Half of my customers are American. I have never even marketed anything to them. It's the biggest, best market with the most people willing to spend the most money.
    • TMWNN 1y ago
      Similarly, when the Trump administration came close to forcing a divestment/shutdown on TikTok in 2020, Americans were 10% of TikTok's user base but 50% of revenue. Of the top 50 most-followed accounts <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-followed_TikTok_accounts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-followed_TikTok_a...>, 21 of 49 (not including TikTok itself) are American.
  • TMWNN 1y ago
    >If you are successful the newUSA will force you to divest what you've build against your will. Besides what bluecalm said, if TikTok were a Canadian, British, French, German, Korean, Japanese, or Taiwanese company, the US government wouldn't have intervened in the first place. Conversely, if TikTok were a Canadian, British, French, German, Korean, Japanese, or Taiwanese company, American would not have to fear a hostile Chinese government silently gathering data on American users, or a company repeatedly shown to be lying about using its app to do so.
    • ulfw 1y ago
      Hostile in what way exactly? What have the actions of hostility been to warrant theft?
  • f33d5173 1y ago
• aurareturn 1y ago
  I think it's bad news if the US government owns Tiktok data rather than the Chinese government. Chinese government won't prosecute me. US government might. The State Department also said it would crack down on non-citizens who have made posts making light of the shooting. “In light of yesterday’s horrific assassination of a leading political figure, I want to underscore that foreigners who glorify violence and hatred are not welcome visitors to our country. I have been disgusted to see some on social media praising, rationalizing, or making light of the event, and have directed our consular officials to undertake appropriate action,” Deputy Secretary of State Christopher Landau posted on Thursday. “Please feel free to bring such comments by foreigners to my attention so that the @StateDept can protect the American people.” [0] Americans prefer that Tiktok data lives within the jurisdiction of the US government, why? If you don't think Palantir is putting together a centralized database to survey individual Americans for the US government, you are crazy. There will be real consequences where if they don't like what you're saying or doing, they will come after you some how. I'd much rather have my data based in China. [0]https://time.com/7316628/charlie-kirk-death-celebrations-social-media-consequences-fired-immigrants-deport/ https://time.com/7316628/charlie-kirk-death-celebrations-soc...
  • jcarrano 1y ago
    When you reach the point of choosing the lesser evil, you might just as well uninstall TikTok.
    • aurareturn 1y ago
      If you're a Chinese citizen, use all American services and hardware if you can.
      • lmm 1y ago
        And vice versa!
  • mothballed 1y ago
    I've come across at least one businessman who refuses to use anything but a Chinese phone he bought in china, with chinese sim card and chinese apps, for that exact reason.
• 737282251819 1y ago
  One more reason to despise Oracle.
• duxup 1y ago
  I'm curious how bad the misinformation type stuff will be. It's bad everywhere, but I found TikTok to be the absolute worst. Not even just fake news political stuff where I can guess the motivation (still bad), but just basic everyday tips and tricks, local users describing news events. I've found it to be so much worse on tiktok. Other platforms there seems to be "more" intent by creators to provide somewhat consistent / factual content. Tiktok often feels to me like content accuracy / quality isn't a concern for most creators.
  • quickthrowman 1y ago
    Short form video is basically worthless outside of comedy and cute animal videos. The format does not allow enough information to determine whether the information provided is accurate or not, for videos that have facts in them. Every time I watch a short form video I feel an overwhelming urge not to trust what I saw and verify it elsewhere, now I just don’t want short form videos at all.
    • vkou 1y ago
      The modern propaganda machine does not run on meaningful facts, nor does it give a shit about not being able to convince you. It cares about convincing people in general.
    • emddudley 1y ago
      Short form video is tailored for the fast, instinctive, emotional brain. Not the slower, deliberative, logical brain.
  • Workaccount2 1y ago
    I don't know about tik-tok, but Instagram is totally unhinged. Boobs, butts, gambling, brain rot, watchbait/ragebait, all that stuff. YouTube shorts gets all the hate, but I find the content to consistently be the most sophisticated? PG rated? educational?
    • duxup 1y ago
• andsoitis 1y ago
  So now we will split American TikTok users from those of the rest of the world? Madness.
  • pelorat 1y ago
    Madness for the USA, but a win for Europe if our kids are shielded from right wing American content. I wish Europe could do this with X. Force Elon to create a wall between US and EU users.
    • brianmurphy 1y ago
      Why do you want to exist in an echo chamber? Suppressing ideas doesn't make them go away.
      • Duralias 1y ago
        The US is simply too polarized, and clearly has been intentionally made so, and it has spread over here, but thankfully not to the same extreme. Of course it is bad for the international community that all nation's people aren't connected but since the US really wants to become isolationist may as well look on the bright side. And personally I don't consider the world exluding the US as an echo chamber, even just the EU is far from an echo chamber, it is a continent of many unique countries, US concerns are heard over here in the EU a lot even if a whole lot of it doesn't matter over here and just causes polarization.
• just_human 1y ago
  This seems like a premature reaction. The Trump administration has been known to anchor to extreme positions as a negotiation tactic. Given the complexity of forced platform migrations (user data transfer, algorithm preservation, creator monetization continuity), and the technical/legal hurdles involved, I suspect we're seeing opening moves in a broader negotiation rather than a final outcome. Let's all be patient and wait to see how this plays out before assuming users will actually have to migrate to a completely new app with new ownership.
  • wbl 1y ago
    The thing is there is a law directing that TikTok be sold or shut down. Trump has already illegally given extensions several times.
• g8oz 1y ago
  TikTok dealt a serious blow to the Western consensus manufacturing apparatus. We saw that with Gaza especially. This deal is a step towards taking back control.
  • corimaith 1y ago
    More like walking straight into another form of "consensus manufacturing". You are not more informed than people a decade ago.
    • fullshark 1y ago
      It's not a matter of more or less it's a matter of what information you receive and in what order.
  • fullshark 1y ago
    Maybe these crypto-zealots who scream about decentralization will actually try and build a thriving decentralized media instead of pumping and dumping shitcoins?
    • cogman10 1y ago
      The problem is that it's hard to make these things popular. There are several ActivityPub services that are pretty good and even have decent UXes, but they aren't super active. A major issue is it's confusing and the funds are limited.
      • SketchySeaBeast 1y ago
        Yeah. I'm on Lemmy and Mastodon, but it ain't exactly jumping, and I'm sure part of it is definitely the confusion around how to get going and what it is. Lemmy at least is also pretty buggy, and I'm not able to find posts I saw a few hours ago, but ultimately I don't really know what the draw is or even could be for the average user.
      • frollogaston 1y ago
• alephnerd 1y ago
  I swear I saw all these exact comments yesterday - why are they showing that they were posted 10 minutes ago?
  • deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  • TSiege 1y ago
    I believe the HN team is intentionally consolidating the thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45270431#45277295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45270431#45277295
• ImPrajyoth 1y ago
  This would just make them go in a situationship. Both are not compatible with each other in any way, but they are in a great deal, one they can't say no to. This is where either one fails or sometimes both.
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• barbazoo 1y ago
  I'm not an expert but this makes me think that it might time to turn off the screens and stop letting half-trillionaires decide what we look at.
  • fogzen 1y ago
    It's time to go take the half-trillion from them.
    • deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  • amatecha 1y ago
    Use Fediverse/ActivityPub, XMPP (maybe matrix), IRC. Use protocols, not "apps"/"platforms". Stop using corporate-owned centralized services. Well, unless you like being the subject of exploitation and manipulation of course.
    • deadbabe 1y ago
      The nuance of protocols vs apps though is lost on the masses. Most people just want to stare at reels or be stared at in reels. This means that the only people you will encounter in protocols will be privacy freak type nerds and “normal” people you might actually feel better interacting with or watching are on popular apps.
      • amatecha 1y ago
        Word. Leaving the made-to-be-accessible/engaging hyper-capitalistic walled gardens requires some initiative and/or agency, which unfortunately only the minority of people are willing to bother with. Either way, I like to make it more broadly known: there are, in fact, alternatives. Ask a geek near you to try out some neato stuff that isn't trying to make you spend all your money and/or isn't trying to manipulate your beliefs etc. But yeah if the normal people are where all the ads and spam and nazis are, I'm fine being a weirdo :)
      • 1y ago
• pyrophane 1y ago
  One thing I’m looking for in all of this is how trump will get a piece of this deal.
  • kranke155 1y ago
    Larry Ellison and A16Z will invest in Truth Social, buy Trump Coin, help his family, (or something) just asynchronously enough that it can’t be directly connected to the TikTok deal.
    • LeafItAlone 1y ago
      Doubt they feel the need to wait. Nobody is going to do anything about it, just like nobody has yet done anything effective about the other blatant corruption. Look at the Saudi “investment” in Trump’s crypto.
• jeffwask 1y ago
  Oracle is just really going wild to get into the media and social media spaces.
  • gtk40 1y ago
    Reminds me of when Cisco bought Flip Video
• xyst 1y ago
  [flagged]
  • 1234letshaveatw 1y ago
    hackernews going full reddit lol
• ferguess_k 1y ago
  Just don't use it. Regardless of who is in control, Tiktok is basically an app designed by some of the smartest minds in the world to get you addicted. I already observed the brainrot similar apps caused to my parents, and for hell I won't allow my kid to touch it whenever I have control. Whether you "learned" anything from it is irrelevant too -- you can always learn better with books, classes, and heck even YouTube videos are better sources of knowledge these days.
  • estearum 1y ago
    Obviously someone not using it themselves mitigates only a fraction of the harm of these things. If everyone around your kids is brainrotted or subject to destructive propaganda, your kids suffer too.
    • throwaway29812 1y ago
      [dead]
    • amatecha 1y ago
      So, same old, basically. When I was a kid it was the same thing, kids spending all evening watching sitcoms and otherwise-trash TV. I was online on my computer learning programming, audio production, trying different operating systems, playing every game I could get my hands on, as well as chatting with people all over the world & making friends who I'm still friends with today, ingesting media from all over the world as well, completely free of corp/govt propaganda. Kids can still do so, if they choose to skip past the pop culture garbage that is shoved in everyone's faces, just as I did 20-30 years ago. Like, yeah, it does suck when everyone around you lazily envelops themselves in inane crap. Isn't that just the norm (sad as it is)? I mean, it's a bit worse now that everyone has a propaganda/influence factory in their pocket and they are incentivized to spend untold amounts of time on it, but the same counter-culture mindset that led me to disregard what society was attempting to coerce me into is a mindset that can surely be instilled/reinforced in kids today. I hope >_>
      • estearum 1y ago
• LetsGetTechnicl 1y ago
  Are there any other examples of something like this happening? A successful (foreign) app is forced to be sold to a US company just because of its country of origin? What happened to the free market? It's remarkable that privacy is even in the conversation when FAANG is just as bad Not to mention that this is all just a distraction from the very real destruction Trump 2.0 is doing to peoples' lives, safety, financial outlooks, rights, etc and flushing our country and planet down to the toilet for his benefit *edited for clarity and fixed typos
  • smegma2 1y ago
    Yes, in 2020 Grindr was forced to sell for similar reasons.
    • LetsGetTechnicl 1y ago
      Today I learned! I remember it being sold to a Chinese company a few years ago, didn’t know it went back to US ownership. Ironically just deleted it because even with an Adblocker it’s still unusable with all the bots
    • Jensson 1y ago
      And why didn't people get up in arms over that?
      • smegma2 1y ago
        Honestly I do wonder the same thing.
• Animats 1y ago
  With, apparently, a board member appointed by the Trump administration. The U.S Steel deal included three board seats, but the Intel deal did not include any. This is starting to look like the way China does things, with the central government having a financial stake in important companies.
  • SilverbeardUnix 1y ago
    I'm not a fan of the administration by any means but a lot of democracies do this. Public/Private partnerships are commonplace in Europe.
    • jay_kyburz 1y ago
      Yeah, I don't mind the public profiting if public money and or concessions were made to set up the business. And especially for bailouts!
    • kelnos 1y ago
      Is it common for this sort of company, though? I can see public-private partnerships making sense for infrastructure, for example, but a social media company? That just sounds like a way for a country to censor and push propaganda.
      • Jensson 1y ago
        Governments are much better at free speech than companies are, the US government is much more for free speech than Facebook or Google or Apple or Microsoft is etc. So it is common for Governments to cooperate with media to ensure they remain independent and not just push corporate propaganda, not just to push government propaganda.
        • SilverbeardUnix 1y ago
          If you actually believe this then I do not know what to tell you.
      • 1y ago
• gpt5 1y ago
  Key details: 1. New, US-specific TikTok App, separate from the main TikTok app in content and users. 2. 80% owned by a U.S. investor consortium led by Oracle, Silver Lake, and Andreessen Horowitz, 20% by Bytedance. 3. Board will include one U.S. government–appointed director. 4. All U.S. user data would sit on Oracle infrastructure in the US. 5. Algorithm will be initially licensed, but has to be reengineered to comply with the law. Not discussed - whether the US tiktok app is allowed to compete with TikTok outside of the US. My guess is NO.
  • hvb2 1y ago
    > All U.S. user data would sit on Oracle infrastructure in the US. Legally required to use the services of a specific company, that's a sweet deal right there.
    • rtehfm 1y ago
      As part of Project Texas[1], they've already been using Oracle's infrastructure. > The central feature of Project Texas is our work with Oracle to isolate the TikTok services serving U.S. users within Oracle’s U.S. cloud environment as an additional safeguard. Although gateways to the storage infrastructure are strictly monitored and controlled, U.S. users of the TikTok platform can still communicate and interact with global users for a cohesive global experience. [1]https://usds.tiktok.com/usds-about https://usds.tiktok.com/usds-about
    • hamburglar 1y ago
      TikTok has been on Oracle cloud for years. One of its biggest customers.
    • justapassenger 1y ago
      Vendor lock-in, with a heavy legal implications, is Oracle's bread and butter of operation.
    • foota 1y ago
      I suspect the legal requirement is for it to be in the US, the Oracle part is probably just because they're the ones investing.
• elzbardico 1y ago
  [flagged]
  • fooqux 1y ago
    It's rather amazing. They found one of the few organizations I trust less than the Chinese government to run this.
    • elzbardico 1y ago
      Compared to Larry Ellison, Kim Jong-un strikes me as a supreme humanist, a beacon of goodness and generosity.
      • tclancy 1y ago
        Probably a better neighbor too.
      • geodel 1y ago
        Indeed. And since you are so nice to Kim he can get a job as remote IT worker.
        • elzbardico 1y ago
          Oh my. Forgot that nowadays people need to be explicitly warned about sarcasm or irony as they tend to interpret everything literally
          • decimalenough 1y ago
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_remote_worker_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_remote_worker_sch...
      • FortuneIIIPick 1y ago
        [flagged]
      • 1y ago
• wnevets 1y ago
  Between this and the US government taking ownership in Intel the "small government is good" and "socialism is bad" crowd have been very very quiet.
  • Zigurd 1y ago
    But its different. It's national soc... Wait...
  • yoyohello13 1y ago
    The Evangelical thought-police republicans seem to have beat the libertarian republicans into submission.
  • cosmicgadget 1y ago
    They have been on a leash since the first term. Look what happened to Paul Ryan, the deficit, money supply, and federal reserve balance sheet.
  • deepsquirrelnet 1y ago
    The term has been so abused that it’s no surprise the current administration was going to push in that direction themselves. All it takes is a minor rebranding and half the country or more would immediately sign up for it. For all intents and purposes, socialism just means “the people we don’t like”. As long as people feel like they’ll get theirs, I seriously doubt they care what economic system they’re living under.
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• hackable_sand 1y ago
  I am ashamed to be an American. We are going to have so much healing to do.
  • tasty_freeze 1y ago
    I'm 61. I've told my kids I could not have ever imagined we got to the state we are in, with the president trying (and largely succeeding) in advancing the "unitary executive" abetted by the Supreme Court. Hell, I wouldn't have believed it even 10 years ago.
• Zigurd 1y ago
  I've built a 12k follower audience for TikTok's on product management and project management. Time to migrate to YouTube.
• lenerdenator 1y ago
  I'm still trying to figure out if putting off the shutdown until they had a deal was even legal. The Constitution has the worth of toilet paper if the executive can just keep saying "I don't want to enforce this law because my buddy here has a financial interest in that not happening as its supposed to", which is exactly what is happening given how close Larry and Trump are.
• jmyeet 1y ago
  There are so many comically evil villains in ths one deal. Example: Silver Lake. Many younger HNers may not be that familira with the story of Skype. To summarize, Skype was a big deal, the first real mass market caller-to-caller Internet voice messaging services. It was founded in 2003, bought by eBay (of all people) in 2005 for several billion dollars. There were plans to spin it out on an IPO but Silver Lake led a buyout for less than eBay paid for it I believe in 2009 (~$2.75 billion). Now in 2011, Microsoft bought it for ~$8.5 billion. That was great for the employees, right? Wrong. Dead wrong. I believe the new company was incorporated in the Cayman Islands to make it difficult to sue, a bunch of executives were fired before the buyout to avoid paying them out and, most controversially, the options had a clawback option that allowed Silver Lake to forcibly purchase options at the original rather than the buyout price [1]. Larry Ellison is more well known in HN circles as comically evil. Pretty much everything he touches leaves a Grand Moff Tarkin level of stench of evil from his attack on public access to Carbon Beach through his massive property portfolio to his more well known attacks on open source (originally as a threat to Oracle's dominance). He is a Trump loyalist and true Putinesque oligarch who will probably amass levels of media control well beyond Rupert Murdoch's wildest dreams. You can bet your bottom dollar that every media property he touches will serve the administration and I'd be shocked if one or more of these deals doesn't directly enrich Trump and/or his family. Welcome to the tleptocracy. [1]: https://www.wired.com/2011/06/skype-silver-lake-evil/ https://www.wired.com/2011/06/skype-silver-lake-evil/
• neilv 1y ago
  Questions regarding the US government-appointed director (CCP style?)... IIUC, Oracle has strong connections to the CIA, and Andreessen the person lately seems right-wing activist. 1. Under the current administration, maybe it doesn't much matter that there's a government monitor? 2. But if a more left-wing administration comes back into power, then a government appointee there could help moderate the other influences?
• dotnet00 1y ago
  I fully expect a decent number of people in favor of this to, without a shred of irony, whine about wanting a free market whenever environmental regulations are in the news again.
  • 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
    What are principles?
    • an0malous 1y ago
      Rhetorical devices to get a certain demographic to buy your product. Open AI, free speech platforms, save the planet, democratize information. At the end of the day, it’s always about power.
• jonahbenton 1y ago
  Useful additional context https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/top-trump-ally-may-soon-control-tiktok-and-cnn/sharetoken/d30bb8e0-b542-4052-bb8a-479f55ff49ad https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/top-trump-ally-may-soon...
• ElijahLynn 1y ago
  Is this a coup by conservative government to gain control of this social network to promote it's ideologies? first Twitter, now Tiktok, both controlled by conservative interests?
  • UncleOxidant 1y ago
    Seems like it. It seemed kind of inevitable. Biden made a mistake going down this road - of course, Trump started the ball rolling during his first term, but Biden should've just left it alone because it wasn't hard to see that this was the likely outcome.
    • tw04 1y ago
      Biden? You do realize Trump attempted to “ban” TikTok in his first term when the original Oracle “deal” happened, right? Pinning this in Biden takes some serious mental gymnastics. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/20/914032065/tiktok-ban-averted-trump-gives-oracle-walmart-deal-his-blessing https://www.npr.org/2020/09/20/914032065/tiktok-ban-averted-...
      • UncleOxidant 1y ago
        Yeah, I do realize that and in fact mention it in the comment above: of course, Trump started the ball rolling during his first term. Not "pinning" it on Biden, per se, but he is the one who signed the bill. It would have been much better to leave it alone. https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/tech/congress-tiktok-ban-what-next https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/tech/congress-tiktok-ban-what...
      • whyenot 1y ago
        Biden signed the bill.
        • 1121redblackgo 1y ago
          With very large and rare bipartisan support
• fogzen 1y ago
  The USA forcibly nationalized TikTok so they can install their own surveillance and censorship apparatus along with skimming from TikTok's profits. All while decrying China for... the same thing.
  • hollerith 1y ago
    >The USA forcibly nationalized TikTok Unlike most nationalizations though in this case the company will be compensated: the new US entity will pay ByteDance licensing fees.
    • fogzen 1y ago
      Isn't that how it works in China? At least since the 80s. The CCP forces companies to insert their state-backed fund and officials into the cap table. Either through golden shares, forced mergers with state-owned enterprises, or forced equity sales.
      • hollerith 1y ago
        I dont know.
  • vehemenz 1y ago
    Republicans, not USA
    • crummy 1y ago
      Isn't this as bipartisan as it gets? Trump wanted China to divest from Tiktok. Congress passed the bill. Biden signed it. The Supreme Court agreed that, yes, this is legal. Sure, people didn't vote for Larry Ellison to take control. But something like this is what we wanted, right?
      • Jensson 1y ago
        It is, if it was Democrats installing a government appointed board seat you'd see a very different response to this event from both sides, but both sides want to do this in the end.
• nadermx 1y ago
  If anyone want's to save stuff off tiktok just incase this doesn't go through, just remove the "OK" from the URL, ending up at https://tikt.com https://tikt.com https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44283876 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44283876
• mettamage 1y ago
  Sorry for the silly question: is the US geofenced from the global tiktok?
  • gpt5 1y ago
    They will be on the app, and the app will also be removed from the app store/play marketplace. I don't know whether they'll be blocked on the web.
• Drunkfoowl 1y ago
  [dead]
• LightBug1 1y ago
  One of the biggest grifts in history ...
• user1999919 1y ago
  basically seizing a foreign product/service. should do wonders for the 'free market'
• ares623 1y ago
  Lol is that why the Oracle stock jumped. Probably someone timed it with the other announcement to make it look innocent.
• m3kw9 1y ago
  if the algorthm server isn't in the US, it's pretty useless.
• axel6665 1y ago
  [dead]
• ergocoder 1y ago
  TikTok is going to be dead in US either way whether it's banned or sell to Oracle. Snap to the moon.
• andy_ppp 1y ago
  So basically devalues TikTok worldwide and TikTok US, presumably a UK/EU user won’t be seen in the US and vice versa? The EU is already preparing a fine I’m sure… such an incredibly strange deal IMO, I can’t work out why anyone would do it?
  • platevoltage 1y ago
    I cant figure out why someone would buy Twitter and completely change the name and branding but here we are.
  • herbst 1y ago
    I am wondering if this is maybe very welcoming for the EU. I don't think the common American creator ads a lot of value to our culture at this point, so maybe nothing of value was lost really.
• aucisson_masque 1y ago
  So much for capitalism and the invisible hand of the free market: forced sellout, TikTok US forbidden to compete with TikTok, board member appointed by the government, infrastructure contract has to be given to a selected company ‘oracle’. That’s something you see in Russia, not America.
  • rhetocj23 1y ago
    This has been going on for decades. Its just more obvious now, especially with an administration who are so open about it.
• tw1984 1y ago
  so there will be three tiktok versions - US tiktok, Chinese douyin, tiktok international. nice
• gorgoiler 1y ago
  Is this all a canard to avoid having to implement actual consumer privacy laws? The question is more about whether it is an intentional decision to go this route or a built-in, institutional decision. When faced with the foe of consumer data harvesting and tracking, right now it seems the US government has concluded the answer is that it is better to have an American company spy on people rather than a Chinese one. The best answer would be to enact laws to stop the act of spying on people, but that’s anathema to US political culture right now!
  • outside1234 1y ago
    Beyond spying, the government wants to be able to actively manipulate the feed to amplify certain voices and suppress other ones is my guess.
• phtrivier 1y ago
  > This new company would also have an American-dominated board with one member designated by the U.S. government. This is the part I'm really curious about : what is the legal framework for mandating a privately-owned company to have a board member designated by the government ? The closest thing I could imagine is "national" companies (totally or partially owned by the government.) We have plenty of that in France (once in a while the State would nationalize energy utilities, banks, car makers, etc... then make them private again, then buy x% of them, etc, etc...) In this case I completely understand that the "State" wants their say in the board - they have money in the game. But here, it does not seem like the US are part of the new ownership (or did I miss that ?) So, what happens when the next government nominates a board member that Elison dislikes ? On which law would a judge rule ?
• junto 1y ago
  The one good thing to come out of this (since I hate TikTok) is that you can count on the fact that Oracle will ruin it.