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Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

• conductr 1y ago
  A lot of people don’t price shop, they have a default service they prefer and they just pay for it whatever the cost.
• baxtr 1y ago
  Interesting. Very little about the underlying reasons for this. Maybe it's driven by curiosity/awe for the new experience? Maybe being alone in the car makes a better ride?
  • JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    I pay a premium for Waymos. No need to tip, or even think about whether one should tip. The ride won’t cancel on me, which makes it more reliable. (Waymos are also more consistently clean.) I can take phone calls without worrying about my rider rating. And yeah, they’re more fun because they're novel.
    • milesskorpen 1y ago
      The tip piece is interesting - that'd close a big chunk of the price gap, if people are tipping 10-20%
      • Jelthi 1y ago
        I do. Sometimes almost 50%. I also do dumb things like order an Uber Black because I wanted a nicer ride or an XL because I don’t want to be shoved in the back of a model 3 even with just 2 people.
    • agumonkey 1y ago
      What about driving safety ?
      • sundaeofshock 1y ago
        Very safe. They obey most traffic rules and don’t do stupid things. I have friends who commute in bike and say they feel safer with Waymo’s on the street. As a pedestrian, I appreciate them since I don’t worry it might run me over when I’m crossing the street.
        • Scoundreller 1y ago
          Once every vehicle is a Waymo/autonomous, can we all jay-walk with impunity?
          • theamk 1y ago
            You won't get hit, yes. But if this starts happening too much, I wonder if in the future, vehicles will start reporting jaywalking to police automatically, complete with video evidence and automated face id?
            • astrange 1y ago
              Jaywalking isn't a crime in California.
    • Analemma_ 1y ago
      The “consistently clean” part won’t last, that’s just because they’re new. In 2010 “they’re consistently clean” was an advantage of Ubers over yellow cabs, which of course is gone now. But I agree with the rest of this.
      • Jelthi 1y ago
        My only experience with a dirty Waymo was smell. I reported it in app and got a message they recalled it to be cleaned. I think the fact they can just take a car out of rotation and to the hub which probably has dedicated cleaning staff is a big reason it will last. Your average uber driver is desperate to work. I’ve seen a driver open his trunk and clean up urine from a drunk female passenger he just dropped off in front of me and then just carry on with our ride like it was no big deal.
        • xnx 1y ago
          > My only experience with a dirty Waymo was smell. Also a plus that you can roll down all the windows in a Waymo if you want to.
      • xnx 1y ago
        > The “consistently clean” part won’t last, that’s just because they’re new. A fair bit of the unclean part of Ubers/Lyfts comes from the drivers: cigarettes, marijuana, food, perfume, air "fresheners", body odor. Waymo's have internal cameras that can detect visible uncleanliness. Easy to report and have accountability (to the previous rider) if there's a significant cleanliness problem (spilled food, vomit). Next generation Zeekr vehicles (limited by tariffs right now) might be better designed for cleaning: better materials, fewer nooks and crannies, larger door openings.
      • theamk 1y ago
        Last Lyft I was in, the driver had some sort on incense burning. He had window open, but this still made me feel sick. Can't wait for Waymos to appear in my area.
    • unsignedint 1y ago
      Yeah, I’d happily pay a bit extra just to take tipping out of the equation entirely. Not having to worry about it is enough of a draw on its own. (I’m not a fan of tipping culture to begin with — especially with apps like Uber, where you’re also being rated, which adds even more pressure.) Now if only Waymo were available in my area…
      • kubectl_h 1y ago
        I dislike tipping culture too but the idea that you would pay more so you don't have to tip doesn't make any sense. Additionally you are paying more so you don't have to tip and the thing that enables that is the literal job a human would otherwise have is destroyed. So bizarre. The levels people will go not to deal with any conflict, no matter how trivial it is...
        • unsignedint 1y ago
          I get what you're saying, but I think there's a misunderstanding. I would opt for something like Waymo, not because I'm trying to avoid people or conflict, but because I prefer a system where the pricing is clear and all-inclusive. It's not that I don't want people to be paid. I just believe compensation should be built into the cost upfront, not tacked on afterward through a tipping system that creates unnecessary pressure, especially when ratings are involved. This isn't about replacing people. It's about preferring a model that's transparent, predictable, and fair without making customers responsible for patching up systemic pay issues. Everyone has their preferences—this is mine, and I'm comfortable with it.
      • sgerenser 1y ago
        Ironically, Travis Kalanick felt the exact same way about tipping, and early marketing copy said something like "When you Uber, you never need to tip!" IIRC the drivers finally wore him down and they added a tipping feature shortly before he was forced out. Sad, as the no-tipping thing was one of the things I really liked about Uber when I first used it.
  • dboreham 1y ago
    "Lack of another person in the vehicle" is a feature. Don't have to interact with a person. No weed/cigarette smell. And so on. Also a computer may not drive as well as the best human but it will always drive much better than the worst human.
    • tialaramex 1y ago
      > "Lack of another person in the vehicle" is a feature. I remember this came up for self-checkout at grocery stores. Personally I mildly prefer not interacting, for one friend this is a huge psychological difference, they are much more able to shop when it doesn't involve trying to talk to a human. It's not impossible anyway but you can see it's a real burden. If I want to interact with a human there's no reason that should be a financial transaction. I can believe you would get a Waymo to a bar, hang out with friends (or even strangers) and then get a Waymo home, because you wanted the social interactions to be entirely separate from the financial transaction.
  • kreetx 1y ago
    But it makes sense it being this way, doesn't it? I assume there are way fewer of Waymo taxis and the premium they provide is being able to ride privately at your own company. Also likely is that the riders might be more well off, part of them being tech-savvy, thus also leaning towards willing to ride an autonomous car.
• taylodl 1y ago
  I think my autonomavertigo would prevent me from ever taking a Waymo. Autonomavertigo (noun): The disorienting fear or anxiety experienced when surrendering control to autonomous systems, especially self-driving vehicles. Often accompanied by phantom brake-pumping and suspicious glances at the dashboard.
  • browningstreet 1y ago
    There's none of this in a Waymo, and the phantom braking is reduced but still present in FSD Teslas... and yes, it's anger-inducing.
    • astrange 1y ago
      A Waymo did take me full speed through a pothole in LA recently. That was unpleasant.
  • nashashmi 1y ago
    Take a friend and watch them in awe and wonder. That will be your icebreaker. Otherwise, just remember this not completely autonomous. Some technician is troubleshooting behind the computer screen.
  • bitpush 1y ago
    Not dismissing your concerns, but curious how you deal with elevators or escalators
    • taylodl 1y ago
      Fixed track, few degrees of freedom
  • dham 1y ago
    You're gonna have a bad time in the next few years haha.
• pkrecker 1y ago
  I'm willing to pay more for a better ride experience: * Waymos are all the same. I underrated the value of this until I started taking Waymo more often. * I can control the music and volume with my phone. * I can listen to YouTube or take a call without AirPods. Sometimes I even hotspot and do some work. But most importantly Waymos all _drive_ the same way. I have had some really perplexing Uber drivers, either driving in a confused and circuitous way, distracted by YouTube, or just driving dangerously. I am more confident that I will have a safe ride in a Waymo than in an Uber.
  • onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
    I've been picked up multiple times by Uber drivers who have, essentially, bragged? about being drunk or high. I've also had multiple drivers in multiple countries try to sell me drugs. I also once had a driver in Chile who, somehow, micro-slept in stop and go traffic every time the car was stopped (which, was actually fascinating, and would've been very concerning if we ever got going more than like 10 mph). Women also have to worry about drivers trying to hit on them. The list goes on. It's not a surprise a lot of people will pay a premium to avoid all that.
    • rcpt 1y ago
      I also had one of those drivers who would sleep in traffic. I assumed he was very sleepy deprived and it was stressing me out while we went over hwy 17 in Santa Cruz
      • idontwantthis 1y ago
        Why didn’t you end the ride and get out?
        • kelnos 1y ago
          Often you won't realize the problem until you're on a freeway and can't get out of the vehicle. Sure, you can ask the driver to get off at the next exit and bail there, but I imagine a lot of people would feel uncomfortable doing that, even if it's for something serious like a safety issue.
• daft_pink 1y ago
  The photo in the pictures is a brand new Jaguar. Just sayin’ I was under the impression they use Chrysler minvans, but I’d pay more to ride in a late model Jaguar than some random Hyundai.
  • browningstreet 1y ago
    That's what all the Waymo's look like. They did some testing in Chrysler minivans, now they're testing in BYD vehicles. But the rides are in those Jaguars (ya know, the ones burning in LA).
    • xnx 1y ago
      > now they're testing in BYD vehicles I hadn't heard that. Did you mean Geely Zeekr? https://waymo.com/blog/2021/12/expanding-our-waymo-one-fleet-with https://waymo.com/blog/2021/12/expanding-our-waymo-one-fleet...
      • browningstreet 1y ago
        Hmm. That’s the vehicle I saw in SF but when I looked it up I thought I read BYD. But maybe I got that totally wrong. EDIT: Yes you’re def right. I looked around a little more and there’s no support for my BYD memory. Geely it is.
      • Axsuul 1y ago
        I've been seeing these drive around LA too (the Zeekr).
  • xnx 1y ago
    > I was under the impression they use Chrysler minvans They used to, but retired them May 1, 2023: https://support.google.com/waymo/answer/13559409 https://support.google.com/waymo/answer/13559409
  • Jelthi 1y ago
    Every Waymo I’ve ridden in is a Jaguar I-PACE. I’m at 31 rides LA/SF.
• Pingk 1y ago
  The article doesn't mention if tips are included in their calculation (I suspect not). Are Uber/Lyft still cheaper after a 10-15% tip?
  • nashashmi 1y ago
    About the same.
  • Jelthi 1y ago
    My thoughts exactly. I usually tip well - too well if I’m drinking and that’s usually when I’m taking an Uber.
  • toast0 1y ago
    Assuming the rides are comparable, the article has a table which includes price/km (weird) of Lyft: $7.99, Uber: $8.36, and Waymo: $11.22. On that data, Waymo is roughly 40% higher, so way more than just a tip.
    • Pwntastic 1y ago
      in my limited experience, you're not usually tipping a percent but a flat dollar amount of like $2-5 per ride, so $3 on an $8 ride basically removes the price difference between lyft/uber and waymo
    • Jelthi 1y ago
      Assuming you didn’t upgrade to a different tier or pay for priority to get your uber faster or a nicer ride. Uber also can increase the cost of the ride on you with unexpected routes or time. Yes you can complain, but I am sure plenty don’t even notice. The math isn’t wrong, but it’s not so black and white. I’m in the camp though of “I would pay double not to deal with a human”
  • arealaccount 1y ago
    Only about 15% people tip https://www.businessinsider.com/1-percent-uber-riders-always-tip-study-40-million-rides-2019-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/1-percent-uber-riders-always...
• JohnFen 1y ago
  I don't use Uber because I think they're a bad actor and don't want to support them. Waymo is Google, so there's some of that there too, but in a pinch I'd probably use Waymo. I'd never use Uber.
  • aspenmayer 1y ago
    Greyball[0] is an interesting solution to a usually intractable problem while freebooting, how to prevent avoidable contact with interested parties, to the degree of identifying and tracking said parties. I’m surprised In-Q-Tel never made an investment, as these kinds of dual-use products and services are in their wheelhouse. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Uber#Greyball https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Uber...
• femiagbabiaka 1y ago
  Electronic vehicles have made riding in Uber's an almost uniformly nauseating experience (literally). In order of preference I will walk/bike -> public transit -> Waymo -> drive myself -> consider staying at home -> Uber/Lyft
  • xnx 1y ago
    > Electronic vehicles have made riding in Uber's an almost uniformly nauseating experience I've heard this a lot. Are drivers heavily accelerating and decelerating?
    • cosmic_cheese 1y ago
      Depends on the driver, but over the years I’ve gotten a decent number who floor it out of every stop sign/light and don’t adequately modulate speed to match the flow of traffic. With how quickly EVs accelerate I could see that making for a less than pleasant ride.
    • jpdstan 1y ago
      The worst is Revel, which, in NYC, are ALL teslas/EVs. worst taxi experience of my life was a 1 hr drive to airport in stop and go street light traffic. I appreciated the hustle but deleted the app soon after my gag reflex subsided. they should at least disable regenerative braking or something
      • recursive 1y ago
        Regen braking is a way of slowing down like drum brakes. It's not inherently any less smooth.
        • Dylan16807 1y ago
          It's likely they mean disabling one pedal driving, so regenerative braking will no longer trigger from letting off the accelerator.
        • Spooky23 1y ago
• dawnerd 1y ago
  At least half my recent rides in Ubers/Lyft have been drivers that shouldn’t be on the road, I’d happily pay more for a Waymo.
  • zomg 1y ago
    i've had quite a few experiences with AWFUL uber drivers as well. i think it would be beneficial for uber to require some sort of ODB monitoring like some insurance companies do. one time on a trip to the airport, i almost had the driver pull over on the side of the road to let me know. i was GENUINELY scared by her driving.
    • davejagoda 1y ago
      ODB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ol'_Dirty_Bastard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ol'_Dirty_Bastard OBD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics
• nashashmi 1y ago
  Yeah I noticed that too, and I paid for the first experience. But also because Lyft guy canceled on me after waiting for 12 minutes. Waymo does not cancel. I feel like Waymo has discouraged Lyft and Uber drivers from being in the area. I would rather pick an uber driver who can get there fast than a Waymo.
• zomg 1y ago
  out of sheer curiosity, i took my first (few) waymo rides while in san francisco last month. mind = blown. there is nothing more enjoyable than getting into a vehicle by yourself, no driver, no awkwardness, nothing. i was happy to pay more for a waymo than an uber, too.
• Jelthi 1y ago
  I pay more: - To support cool technology - To ride in a high end car of known quality - To listen to my music and at any volume - To not feel weird about the little things like talking or rolling down my windows or setting an AC Temperature - To know exactly when and where my driver will pick me up down to the exact curb. - To not have to make small talk with a person. Even when requesting quiet preferred you’ll get an uber driver who wants to share their life story or trauma dump on you. - To not die. I’ve been in some terrifying Ubers with either bad drivers or just exhausted ones.
  • klabb3 1y ago
    And carsickness. In stop-sign city traffic, I get nauseous with the breaking and speeding of aggressive driving. I mean stop signs are problematic for other reasons too, but I don’t want to get to a dinner with friends feeling sick. That said, if I’m going mostly highway to the airport I want a driver who’s knowledgeable and opportunistic, picking the best lanes and not missing lights.
• cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  A robot isn’t going to decide it doesn’t want to take my ride after accepting it and drive around aimlessly hoping I’ll get tired of waiting and cancel. I haven’t needed Uber/Lyft on a regular basis in several years, but back when I did that was a frequently recurring problem.
  • lhamil64 1y ago
    There's also a problem of drivers discriminating, like canceling rides if they see you have a guide dog. It's illegal and they can get banned for it, but it still happens. This wouldn't happen in a Waymo.
  • basisword 1y ago
    Reliability was the main selling point for me ~10 years ago. You could also get a ride quickly. It's the total opposite now. I've missed a flight due to multiple cancellations. I've been left standing in dangerous areas of town for an hour late at night trying to get a ride. Now, for important things where possible, I'll take public transport. It's far more reliable. If you want to compete with Uber, increase prices and increase reliability significantly. There are times when a lot of people will be more than happy to pay rather than risk their safety. Undo the enshittification.
  • timewizard 1y ago
    A robot can be programmed to do that. As soon as they're economically incentivized to do so someone will write that code.
    • pedrosorio 1y ago
      When the driver and the platform are different entities (like Uber) you end up with these weird incentives. How would that happen in the Waymo case?
      • Spooky23 1y ago
        Some analyst will figure out the robots have less billable time on task and they’ll find some way to avoid the problem. There’s a million ways to do it. Shadow ban locations, mistakenly pull up to the wrong location, etc.
• atlasunshrugged 1y ago
  As a man I thankfully haven't ever really felt unsafe (in this way anyways, definitely some bad/distracted Uber drivers) but I could see women or kids finding Waymos to be a safer overall experience worth a premium
  • nineplay 1y ago
    Recently my daughter and I had to take a Uber home from airport at 11pm. I did not like the driver and I did not like the situation and I seriously was considering exit plans if he started going off the normal route. The next time I had to take a late Uber I paid up for Uber Premium, which is maybe imperfect reasoning but the driver was pleasant and polite and didn't give any bad vibes.
    • mstridder1 1y ago
      [flagged]
      • tomhow 1y ago
        Please don't attack people like this on Hacker News. It's not what the site is for and it destroys what it is for. Please read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      • nineplay 1y ago
        I'm genuinely curious why my comment made you think I've ever claimed to be not racist, falsely or not.
        • mstridder1 1y ago
          [flagged]
          • tomhow 1y ago
            We've banned this account.
• iwanttocomment 1y ago
  In Austin, Waymos are hailed via the Uber app, which will quote you a price which is good for either a conventional Uber or a Waymo, and you get a Waymo if one is available. Same price. The Waymo is actually cheaper because there's no tip. The issue I have with Waymo is that getting in and out of those i-Paces as a "person of height" is rather difficult - I really have to do a strange contortion - and if I want to sit in the right rear, there's nobody in front to pull the seat up for me so there's not enough legroom. (I've moved to adjusting and sitting in the front passenger seat when I get a Waymo, something human Uber drivers hate.)
  • gorfian_robot 1y ago
    for a while Austin had banned Uber/Lyft. do you know what happened to change that?
    • iwanttocomment 1y ago
      The Texas legislature enacted state-wide legislation that usurped the Austin fingerprinting requirement that caused Uber and Lyft to leave town. https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/29/texas-gov-greg-abbott-signs-measure-creating-statewide-regulations-rid/ https://www.texastribune.org/2017/05/29/texas-gov-greg-abbot...
  • kylehotchkiss 1y ago
    Do you always tip uber/lyft drivers? I usually only will if they get out of the car and help me load or unload a heavy (40+ lbs) suitcase. If they just push the trunk open button, I'm neither giving a 5 star review nor a tip ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
• cvsv 1y ago
  The Waymo cars are really comfortable luxury Jaguars. For Uber and Lyft there are many price tiers, but to reliably get an equally or more comfortable car you probably need to book the black car options. I’m sure Uber / Lyft are way more expensive per mile than Waymo on that tier. In addition to all the things people have pointed out that makes it a better experience.
  • Jelthi 1y ago
    Almost every Uber Black and Black SUV I’ve ordered was a Chevy Suburban or GMC Yukon. The quality is across the board, but one thing I’ve found consistent is the terrible quality seats. The seats feel like it’s just cardboard supporting you that pops in and out as you move with the car. It’s rare to get an actual luxury car even when paying more. Their promise of “professional” drivers is also wild. Sometimes you get a guy who’s friendly and seems eager to please and helpful with luggage, but I’ve had plenty of downright rude drivers who feel inconvenienced by my presence.
    • gottorf 1y ago
      > I’ve had plenty of downright rude drivers who feel inconvenienced by my presence This is my general observation about life (at least in the US) these days: the seeming prevalence of people who think they're doing you a favor by doing their job.
• black3r 1y ago
  my eastern european mind cannot comprehend 2 things: - if the average price per ride is $20.43 and average price per km is $11.22 does it mean that the average ride length is 1.8km? that seems kinda low..., like that's something I would walk if I didn't hurry.. - if the higher prices are really influenced by costs of operating AV and not simple greed fueled by "offering a better product", how long it's gonna take to be competitive in countries where driver salaries are lower than US? In Bratislava where I'm from the UberX price per km outside surges are lower than 1€ (there's a minimum price per ride of 4.50€ though, but a ride to the airport which is 9km away is 7.41€ now (and that's without the frequent discounts Uber offers, currently I have a 30% discount offered and it would cost me 5.19€ with the discount)...
  • msgodel 1y ago
    In most of the US it's not really possible/safe to walk between buildings just because of how everything got built. Often it would involve crossing six lane divided highways etc. That's why you see so many threads here talking about bikes/transit/urban design etc.
  • klabb3 1y ago
    > does it mean that the average ride length is 1.8km? that seems kinda low..., like that's something I would walk if I didn't hurry.. Idk about the average but I used to make a bad joke that walking is considered an extreme sport in most of the US. Sometimes, it’s for legit reasons such as extreme heat, literally no sidewalks, and areas that are perceived as dangerous because of the people there. Other times it’s just seen as a discomfort ”why walk when you can sit in a large car”. This is reflected in language, where ”walkable” is a frequent term used to describe the often rare parts of urban areas where you can comfortably walk from A to B. In EU there’s often no need for such a term. > how long it's gonna take to be competitive in countries where driver salaries are lower than US? Why not share my prediction, it’s probably as bad as the rest of them: I think this stage right now is about viability. Getting training data and real road experience, knowing what sensors are needed, range of road conditions, and grasping the enormous amount of novel traffic situations. I don’t think the purpose of the pricing is to make profits, but rather to test the markets end-to-end. Essentially, it’s an R&D project designed to inform and instill confidence for future investing and scaling. As for replacing human drivers, I think it’ll be region-by-region with a very long tail. Since cost of labor varies so much, you’d need many years to bring costs of vehicles and maintenance down to be competitive. Plus, expanding to new regions have huge fixed costs and risk, much more so with AVs than normal ”Uber-style” services, with BYO labor & vehicle. These things need service centers, depots, offices, probably quite densely, no? Not to mention the politics, unions etc.
• iw7tdb2kqo9 1y ago
  I am happy that Waymo is making money. Google would kill it, if it could not make money.
  • chrisco255 1y ago
    I don't think it's profitable yet. The capex for Waymo is massive.
  • TheDong 1y ago
    idk, google has a nice list of things that seem like they'll never be profitable, but it keeps running em. Like, google patents, google books, google translate... none of those make money, right? Chromium only makes money indirectly I think, and they invest a ton of engineering resources in that. Google kills stuff, but they don't kill everything, just stuff that no one is working on (like google reader, I think all the people who cared about the code just quit), or stuff that is specifically counter to some exec's strategy (like killing a bunch of chat software to centralize on Google+ or whatever it is now)
• nashashmi 1y ago
  I once went to a remote town in Maryland that had only one uber driver. Imagine how beautiful a Waymo machine would work there.
  • standardUser 1y ago
    Uber barely operates in huge swaths of the US. I've been in parts of Idaho and Kansas where wait times during the day can be a half an hour and after a certain hour no drivers are available at all. And the drivers who operate in these areas tend to be far less experienced/professional than in denser areas (to put it politely). Waymo solves all of this with just a handful of cars in each county.
    • conover 1y ago
      Bainbridge Island (connected to Seattle by ferry) is like this. There is approximately one Uber driver, at least the last time I was there, and good luck if you get back to the island later in the day. A single Waymo would be amazing.
• mstridder1 1y ago
  [flagged]
• moralestapia 1y ago
  Hehe, missed a chance to write a cheap pun on that headline. "Waymo rides cost waymo than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway"
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• greybox 1y ago
  This doesn't surprise me at all. I work in the EU but recently the Americans we hire are very hesitant to have conversations with service providers. They will pay more to use a service that has an app, rather than call up another taxi company by phone for example (and it's not a language barrier problem, because everyone speaks english). I can see this extending to not wanting to have a driver in their taxi. I see this with UK people recently too. I'm not sure what it is. I'm not saying it's not an EU thing at all, but from my vantage point, the behavior is most prevalent in Americans Edit: After reading this thread, it's possible this could be sampling bias and more of a cross-country generational thing from mellennials down. (I am a mellennial too)
  • nitwit005 1y ago
    Companies have spent decades, and quite a bit of money, trying to get people to stop calling them. It's worked. People mostly only call when there is no other option.
    • karp773 1y ago
      This. It used to be that customer service agents in America were super helpful and would go an extra mile for you. Not any more, dealing with customer service is just a lot of pain, and often a waste of time. As an example, let's say you have a problem with Windows. Would you rather ask AI for help or a human support agent on the microsoft's website?
  • yurishimo 1y ago
    Are the American's you're referencing living in the EU or back in the US? Could the language barrier be a reason for their hesitancy? I've heard stories about gen-z/alpha being more app brained, but most of my peers in their early 30s are generally fine with calling people or sending an email perhaps depending on the service.
    • greybox 1y ago
      > Are the American's you're referencing living in the EU or back in the US? The EU > Could the language barrier be a reason for their hesitancy? No: > (and it's not a language barrier problem, because everyone speaks english) >I've heard stories about gen-z/alpha being more app brained I think you might be on to something there, maybe it's more of a generational thing than a cultural difference between American and EU citizens.
• rossdavidh 1y ago
  The last time I got an Uber, it was driven by a young fellow who looked to be in his first year of driving (I could be wrong), the car smelled like mothballs and was obviously in poor shape, and he accidentally drove on the wrong side of a divided road for a block or so (he was apologetic). The last time I tried a regular taxi stand, the car looked even worse, and it broke down. So, we called Lyft, and the driver could not find where we were because it was not a normal address (she was trying her best, but her English was not up to the task of understanding our explanation). Waymo's selling point might be that its cars are all in good shape (right now), and customers know this.
  • aerostable_slug 1y ago
    > her English was not up to the task of understanding our explanation Another Waymo selling point is its universal (since they're all the same) ability to communicate with anyone.
  • PessimalDecimal 1y ago
    I've been in more than one Uber that smelled like the driver just smoked weed.
    • mdaniel 1y ago
      I formally report it every time I'm in a car that has the deodorizer turned up to 11 because it makes me nauseous. My worst one was a 30 minute ride to the airport in LA - I thought about just having them pull over and ordering a replacement
      • lupusreal 1y ago
        Just say you feel carsick and want a window open for fresh air. They surely don't want puke in their car so they should be willing to oblige.
        • mdaniel 1y ago
          Oh I lean my head out the window like a dog, I am not their friend and give no fucks about offending them, but riding so long having to breathe in 65 mph wind just because a gas station toilet spilled in the car is a reportable offense
• drzaiusx11 1y ago
  I’ve had several questionable uber rides regarding personal safety and would gladly ride with something with a consistent safety track record for a premium. Recently rode with a visibly sick driver that had had a hard time catching his breath long enough to keep his eyes on the road. Automation doesn’t get sick.
• ec109685 1y ago
  “Colloquially, there is an idea that autonomous vehicles are something that will erode driver jobs and put drivers at risk. And I think the irony of what we’ve seen is that it’s actually quite expensive to run an AV” This seems like a temporary problem. Google is charging what the market will bear and doesn’t have ability to get more cars on the road.
  • doctorpangloss 1y ago
    The simpler explanation is that Google mismanages its pay-per-use consumer-facing products. Consider Google One and YouTube Premium are also overpriced, and everyone tells them so. It's obviously a mistake to charge more than Uber or Lyft, it's crazy obvious, like mind meltingly obvious. Sometimes it's just the obvious thing. Google's problem is that its management is so bad, it doesn't understand: just because something happens (paying more for rides) doesn't mean it makes sense. After all taxis are more expensive sometimes, and people pay for them, and where's the article that litigates all the dumb reasons people give for doing that?
    • ldjkfkdsjnv 1y ago
      "One of the most valuable companies on the planet is mismanaging its products" see the issue with that assertion?
      • doctorpangloss 1y ago
        Yeah… on the other hand I don’t let the stock market do all my thinking for me. As an aside, I thought /r/superstonk was a parody subreddit.
      • Den_VR 1y ago
        Google mismanages an enormous number of things. Users, Customers, Products, Teams, Talent. You can observe this in your interactions with Google/Alphabet and in ex-googler post-mortems. They are amazingly valuable as a stock, as a business and as a collection of talent. That doesn’t entirely excuse failures of vision and leadership, let alone pricing. Edit: That said, I am inclined to believe that Alphabet pricing likely better reflects reality. The others have some bad habits.
• Animats 1y ago
  Waymos will get cheaper to make as they scale up. The Ioniq version [1] costs less to build. All the sheet metal and mechanical mods for Waymo are done at the Hyundai factory in Georgia.[2] Waymo just mounts the electronics. Jobs at the Hyundai factory start at $23.66/hour, with reasonably good benefits.[3] [1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/10/waymo-and-hyundai-enter-partnership/ https://waymo.com/blog/2024/10/waymo-and-hyundai-enter-partn... [2] https://www.hmgma.com/ https://www.hmgma.com/ [3] https://careers-americas.hyundai.com/hmgma/job/Ellabell-Production-Team-Member-%281st-Shift%29-GA-31308/1277384600/ https://careers-americas.hyundai.com/hmgma/job/Ellabell-Prod...
  • passwordoops 1y ago
    >Waymos will get cheaper to make as they scale up. Meaning their profits will rise as they inevitably increase prices
    • elcritch 1y ago
      Exactly, capitalism isn't about putting capital to work doing things. It's only concern is share holder profit!
    • silvr 1y ago
      Minority view here I'm sure but maybe profits are a just reward for inventing the future - this is literally science fiction come to life
      • owebmaster 1y ago
        Facebook was once inventing the future, too
      • MegaButts 1y ago
        Self-driving cars are cool but I'd rather have good public transit. These vehicles clearly have utility beyond just public transit, but I'd rather they be an edge case rather than considered a main solution. So yeah, from my perspective the problem is being focused on profits instead of trying to solve the real problem with solutions that have already existed for decades. If you zoom out a bit, your argument would be more-or-less the same when regular automobiles were replacing the functioning transit systems in the USA, specifically in LA.
• oytis 1y ago
  People are eager to pay money to not deal with other people. Which makes me pessimistic about the future of humanity given recent developments in AI really
  • yusina 1y ago
    Well it's not just the talking or otherwise awkward interactions. It's also smells and generally being in a person's personal space. Let's face it, sitting in a car, you physically get closer to the driver than you'd normally be comfortable with in an open, unrestricted space. And the car is closed too. You are essentially forced to be in their personal space. Not so with a driverless car.
  • ghaff 1y ago
    I question that as a general statement if the "other people" are competent, clean, and polite. That's not to say I won't do something online if it's lower friction than going into a DMV office or whatever. Though I don't really do online food delivery in general, I'm perfectly happy going to a number of local restaurants.
    • oytis 1y ago
      Other people are different, that's the thing, while AI is generally predictable quality, and it's not going to go down. Autonomous driving is just one example, I really think it's a general pattern
      • JadeNB 1y ago
        > AI is generally predictable quality, and it's not going to go down. "Not going to go down" does not seem consistent with the way other tech trends have developed: magical at first, then subject to endless churn to seem dynamic and reduced quality, increased costs, or both as it becomes harder to squeeze out additional revenue.
    • kelnos 1y ago
      If I could be 100% certain that every Uber/Lyft driver I encounter would give me a perfect "social" experience (where "perfect" varies for me depending on the day), I'd choose it over Waymo at the same price. But of course that's unreasonable and impossible to expect. So for a comparable price and wait/drive time I'll pretty much always pick Waymo. It does make me sad to some extent; I do enjoy interacting with people working service jobs in my neighborhood, people I see on a regular basis and who recognize me. But I don't think that's ever going to be the case for me for something like a taxi/rideshare driver.
• harmmonica 1y ago
  As a Waymo-booster on HN for a while now, here's my latest anecdote. I tried to figure out how to take Waymo to LAX even though it's not actually in their territory yet just because I value the experience so much. I was borderline going to take it within walking distance (about half a mile), but got lazy at the last minute. I took Lyft instead, and, as if the universe cursed my laziness, I booked a "comfort" car for $3 more than the base level Lyft. At first I was going to get a Tesla Model Y to take me, but that cancelled. Instead, what must have been a first generation Honda Pilot picked me up, suspension creaking and muffler that had seen better days. Did Lyft recognize what they sent instead of the "comfort" they promised and therefore charge me $3 less? Of course not. When I tried to contact customer service I ran into what I'm sure plenty of HN people have, which is a dead end where you report the issue and they (programmatically?) adjudicate the complaint on the spot. Their determination? I wasn't entitled to a $3 refund. Ironic that the rideshare app with human drivers doesn't allow me to contact their customer service whereas Waymo has no problem with it (yeah, yeah, I get it, "we'll see once they reach a huge scale." But today the experience is so much better than Uber or Lyft that while it lasts I will bask in its driverless glory).
  • meindnoch 1y ago
    I had the opposite once with Uber. I paid regular price (UberX or whatever it's called), then a guy showed up in a black BMW 530 with leather seats.
    • harmmonica 1y ago
      I've had the same many many times. I think almost universally it's fair that the product/provider upgrades your experience when you agree to pay for something, but when they are specifically telling you "pay x and we'll give you y" and then they give you <y that's, I think, shitty.
    • kelnos 1y ago
      Of course, that happens, but the point is that it's a crapshoot, and you don't know what you're gonna get until the driver confirms, and you don't know what the car's actual condition is until you get in. And regardless, it's always reasonable for someone to provide you a better service/product than you paid for, but it's never ok to do the opposite. With Waymo, you know what you're going to get every time. I've also never experienced a Waymo interior that was in bad shape when I got in the car, though I'm sure that does happen to people.
• lupusreal 1y ago
  Call me crazy but I greatly prefer old fashioned taxis, because their drivers know how to step on it and drive like maniacs instead of doddering grandmothers. Sure they stink and have weird accents but why would I care about that when I just want to get home from the airport and get to bed as soon as possible? Accepting cash and not needing some bullshit app is also a huge bonus.
• tempestn 1y ago
  This makes a lot of sense to me. When you ride in an Uber or a taxi, you're a guest in the driver's space. In a Waymo, it's your own space. You can play music, talk on the phone, etc. without worrying about disturbing the driver. You're not likely to have strong odors, or driver's phone conversations. And the experience will be roughly consistent each time. In an Uber, you have no idea what the car or the driving standards will be like until you're in it. I trust my own driving over a Waymo, but I'd trust Waymo over an average Uber driver, let alone a bad one. I've had some nice conversations with Uber drivers, but I've had some unpleasant rides too. I'd definitely pay a bit extra for a good driverless car. ('Good' being key. After trying out the Tesla FSD beta a couple times though, you couldn't pay me to ride in one of those without the ability to grab control.)
  • Simon_O_Rourke 1y ago
    Maybe it's my rampant misanthrope leanings, but even in more trivial things like choosing automated kiosks other staffed in CVS, I'm just more comfortable not having to make small talk with a person, worry if they're having a good day or not etc. I'd happily pay 20 percent more to Waymo for that personless experience too.
    • Mordisquitos 1y ago
      It's interesting how American cultural expectations of forced social interaction may be having the effect of promoting automated systems as a reaction. As someone who lives in Spain and has lived in the UK, the idea of choosing self-checkout at a supermarket to avoid small talk with a cashier sounds alien to me; we simply don't do that here. While cashiers will certainly chat with certain customers while scanning their items, it's either that they know each other or it was initiated by the customer. I always choose staffed checkout over self-checkout because it's literally less effort for me, but I could imagine American social expectations at checkout —"How are you doing today?", "Oh these apples look amazing!", "Having a party are we?"— absolutely tipping the balance of effort and pushing me to self-checkout.
      • dgunay 1y ago
• grazing_fields 1y ago
  How many of you have used ZipCars or an equivalent? I guarantee you Waymo cars will look worse than the average Uber/Lyft once they stop fluffing up the experience.
• lxgr 1y ago
  Simply not playing Uber’s bait-and-switch game (happened again just yesterday: A purported $40 ride ended up being $80 due to being “unexpectedly 3x the planned distance”) would get them my business immediately once they become available in NYC for the very few times I do take a car. Not marking up rides when there’s a gift balance on the account would also be a great distinguishing feature.
  • cflewis 1y ago
    I managed to get a Waymo after a big event at Intuit Dome. It found a reasonable place to pick me up a couple blocks away. I didn’t have to try calling the driver to get them to figure out where I should go to try and get around roadblocks and traffic (I had no idea about the area). It didn’t cancel on me. It didn’t hit me with a surge price. So I don’t even buy the central premise by the article that Waymo is guaranteed to be more expensive. And I didnt have to worry about a Waymo being unavailable late in the evening, or canceling my ride because it didn’t want to go that far at night. It just worked. Why would I ever take anything else?
• kelnos 1y ago
  This phenomenon is interesting, and a bit surprising. I can kinda see it: while my experiences with Uber & Lyft over the past ~13 years has been overall very positive, there are quite a few minor-seeming-but-adds-up-to-annoying things that can happen with Uber/Lyft that just won't happen with Waymo: * Driver cancels and you have to wait for a new driver to accept. * Driver is really chatty and you aren't in the mood, or worse, they want to talk about uncomfortable topics like politics or religion (and even worse, they hold views you find bad). I sometimes (rarely) get drivers who want to complain about something or other, and it's just awkward. * Car condition is unknown until you get in, and could be bad. There might be unpleasant smells, either from cleaning issues or driver body odor. * It's hot enough for air conditioning, but the driver instead has windows open to save gas (which is dubious anyway as open windows creates more drag); it's uncomfortable but you feel awkward asking them to close the windows and turn a/c on. On the other hand, sometimes you do get an awesome driver who enhances the experience beyond what a robotaxi can offer. I'm not the most chatty sort with people I don't know, but I have on occasion had a really fun, positive conversation with an Uber/Lyft driver that I genuinely enjoyed. And in SF at least, Waymo will still not drive on freeways, so if there's a significantly faster freeway route for your trip, Waymo will take more time. I generally do prefer Waymo over Uber/Lyft, but I'm not willing to pay all that much more for it. One thing to remember is that you should also factor in the tip you'd give the Uber/Lyft driver when making the comparison, since you don't tip a Waymo. Lately I've seen prices like (tip-adjusted) $12 for Uber/Lyft and $25 for Waymo for the same ride, but I'm not willing to pay that much more for Waymo. If Waymo is a few bucks more expensive I'll use it, but not $10. (I also have a 10 points per dollar thing on Lyft rides with my credit card, so I try to remember to take into account a more-or-less 15% discount on the ride, versus the standard 1.5% 1 point per dollar I get with Waymo.)
  • sokoloff 1y ago
    I don't see how Waymo would be immune to the unpleasant smell issue. It might happen less frequently, but it'll definitely happen.
    • kelnos 1y ago
      I would expect it to happen much less often. And each instance of it will likely only be for a single customer's ride, as they'll report the issue in the app, and the car will be taken out of service until it's cleaned. For an Uber/Lyft driver, if they're even (made) aware of the problem, they'll probably not take care of the issue until they've finished their day of driving.
• habosa 1y ago
  I mix and match but I’ll take a Waymo if it’s <= $5 more for these reasons: 1. Literally zero variance. Every car is the same. Every driver is the same style. If it says it’ll be there in 7 minutes it will be 7, not 5 and not 10. 2. A jaguar SUV is a premium vehicle. It’s comparable to an Uber black not a regular Uber. 3. It’s so child friendly. My son can make all the noise he wants and I can take time loading him in without a driver being impatient. 4. They’re very clean. I’ve never been in a dirty or bad smelling Waymo. That’s very nice. 5. No aggressive driving. I’ve had Ubers that scare me weaving between lanes above the speed limit. A Waymo is always smooth.
  • camel_gopher 1y ago
    I’m seeing more of them with trash. Last one I took had a rolled up bundle of used bandages.
    • bertil 1y ago
      Were you able to flag it to Waymo?
    • fnordpiglet 1y ago
      People are excited by driverless cars but it also means a car with no social barriers and no person who considers the cars condition important. For now they’re well surveilled and a premium vehicle. Soon they will be filthy pods in a race to the bottom with all the charm of a public bathroom. They’ll be cheap, but you’ll get what you pay for. Private driverless cars will be the premium alternative.
      • seanmcdirmid 1y ago
        Why do you assume the surveillance will go away as they become cheaper? The taxi company know who is in their car and they have access to interior cameras if something happens. In many respects, it is going to be even more difficult to take a dump in one and get away with it than if a human was driving it. They have your credit card number and visual evidence of what you did, they will just charge your card automatically for things like puking.
• WhyNotHugo 1y ago
  Replacing 100% of cars with self-driving taxis are definitely the future. In this context: Corporate owned for-profit self-driving cars are the mark of a dystopian. Publicly-owned or non-profit self-driving cars are the mark of a utopia.
  • ChadNauseam 1y ago
    I'm not sure I see why. If hailing a publicly-operated waymo equivalent is as convenient as going to the DMV or making a withdrawal from a treasury direct account, I don't think anyone is ever going to use it. From my perspective, waymo is the private sector solving a problem that was largely created by the government (zoning → lack of density → needing to drive everywhere).
  • Geee 1y ago
    Obviously the opposite. Competition keeps prices low and quality high. "Publicly-owned" would be expensive and low quality, and would make the people running the operation filthy rich. Non-profit would mean that whoever is running it would increase their salaries until there's no profit. There would be no reason to lower prices or increase quality, if competition is non-existent.
    • WhyNotHugo 1y ago
      > "Publicly-owned" would be expensive and low quality, and would make the people running the operation filthy rich. By publicly owned, I mean “owned by the public”, not “owned by a publicly traded company” (which is, ironically, private property). You’re thinking the latter, which counts as corporate-owned. I used a bad choice of words. In most of the world “public owned” means the former, whereas in the US it means the latter. The exact opposite, ironically.
      • Geee 1y ago
        No, I really did mean "owned by the public". Which means that the company is actually 100% owned by the state and they would have a monopoly, assuming that you'd want to ban commercial operators. This is the usual interpretation of "public ownership". This would be extremely bad compared to a situation where there's a dozen of companies competing in the same market.
• killion 1y ago
  This looks like a clickbait study. Waymo is cheaper 100% of the time for me. The two big data points I think they purposely glossed over are: 1. Tip – Uber and Lyft cost 20% more than the ride price. 2. Car quality – Sure, a Corolla on Lyft is cheaper than Waymo. But once you select something desirable the price goes up, a lot.
  • kelnos 1y ago
    My experience is very different. About a year ago I'd agree that Waymo was mostly cheaper or comparable in cost to an Uber/Lyft ride, but in the past 3-6 months I usually see Waymo at 75%-150% more than Uber/Lyft, and yes, I do account for the Uber/Lyft tip when I compare.
  • serbuvlad 1y ago
    What's up with the US tipping culture? I live in Romania and I only tip restaurants a standard of 10% (not fast food, not coffee, just restaurants). Also delivery people when they help bring heavy stuff into my appartment (theoretically they are only paid to bring it to the block entrance). Back when I used taxis we would tip those. But I have never tipped an Uber. Or a Glovo (our Door Dash) deliveryman.
    • preommr 1y ago
      Started off as a way to pay people less, especially for odd jobs. Grew to a point where it's disconnected from the actual value of the service, so people like waiters make way more than if it was priced according to market price, but people pay anyways because it's not about the service, but about not feeling guilty for being cheap. The ecosystem has now found a balance that hurts the consumer, which they're willing to put up with because it's socially ingrained. The people providing a service make more, the business owner doesn't really care, and can't get rid of tips because it's a cutthroat industry and they wouldn't get workers, and higher wages would cause sticker shock, so they too have no incentive to make any changes. The customers group is too big, and don't have enough structure to organize any meaningful change. So it is what it is. You can see it now, people complain about how tipping is everywhere, including for walk-ins where no table service is provided, but eventually this too will be normalized. My personal hope is that one day we start tipping our doctors, our dentists, our programmers, to see how big and stupid this dumpster fire can grow.
• mvac 1y ago
  In my experience Uber/Lyft/Bolt in their race to the bottom started tolerating cars in bad shape and drivers that don’t care about driving safely. Really hoping to see Waymo or any other robo-taxi in Europe soon.
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• tomduncalf 1y ago
  This doesn’t surprise me and I’m not sure it’s about people not wanting to interact with people or whatever - many of the Ubers I’ve got while in SF have been pretty grim (unclean, weird odors, ancient badly serviced car etc) and badly driven. I’ve not noticed this being such an issue in the UK/Europe but that might just be because I take Ubers much more rarely there (with more prevalent public transit etc). I’d definitely pay more for a Waymo, which is a much more reliably pleasant (and very cool!) experience.
• nout 1y ago
  Last Uber driver I took was solving Rubik's cube while driving, so I can see the value in Waymo actually paying attention to the road. On top of that I know what to expect and I can just listen to podcasts or do whatever. One thing that worries me a bit is the camera that's pointed at your phone in the back...
• Schnitz 1y ago
  Uber and Lyft’s cheapest fare options are far from what they used to be. Want a timely pickup? Gotta pay for priority. Want a car that isn’t 10 years old and smelly? Pay extra. Don’t want a sketchy driver smelling of weed? Pay extra. The list goes on. Waymo however at least you know you get a clean and safe car.
• siliconc0w 1y ago
  The real pain with Waymo is that they just aren't as reliably available in a short period, especially at high demand times. Uber can incentivize bringing on extra drivers at certain times - Waymo can't. Unless they size the fleet for high demand peaks - which would be incredibly cost prohibitive, I don't see how they solve this except maybe a hybrid model or they distill their "waymo driver" into something that runs on a standard economy car.
• EnPissant 1y ago
  I will take Waymos whenever possible just to avoid the black ice tree air fresheners you find in >50% of Ubers that makes my eyes burn for hours. That and the aggressive driving that makes me car sick.
• nemo44x 1y ago
  Serious question - what are all the unskilled immigrants that drive taxis/rideshare/etc going to do? Many millions. What’s the plan for these guys?
• Ericson2314 1y ago
  We need Waymo busses, either directly operated, or licensing the technology.
• segfault99 1y ago
  Who wouldn't pay more to not have to interact with an unknown human?
• ConradKilroy 1y ago
  Oh Wow, I wonder if this experiment would yield similar results outside San Francisco, hmmm?
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• jbombadil 1y ago
  There's still a "wow factor" associated with this. I live in a city that doesn't have Waymo. I recently had a work trip to a city that does. Waymo was 25% more expensive than Uber (~15 vs ~20). I still took Waymo because I don't get to experience it often, so it's fun to be in a driverless car. If I had constant access to Waymo, I would have probably chosen the cheapest option.
• UrMomsRobotLovr 1y ago
  The driving is much more comfortable than Uber or Lyft. Taking them through San Francisco I find they gentler on hills, accelerate and break more mildly, and don’t try to drop you in unsafe places. They’re just better drivers than people and that comfort is worth the up charge.
• rayxi271828 1y ago
  I've been taking these rides 5-6 days a week, everywhere, and also in other countries outside the US. What I've come to realize is this: what matters to me the most is the consistency of the lowest bar of the experience. I get that sometimes with human drivers, when I'm lucky, I get someone who goes above and beyond, someone who's fantastic to talk to along the way, and so on. But if I can trade all that with a guarantee that there's a consistent, predictable floor to my worst experience, I'll take it in a heartbeat. At the end of it, I take a ride to get from point A to point B. I'd rather have a machine does it for me very efficiently, without all the messy human element, with the ups and the downs, because it's the downs that ruin my day.
  • zenonu 1y ago
    100%. I've discovered the floor: Small cars that probably aren't safe, trashed interior, and drivers who smell of literally every vice while talking on the phone AND playing whatever music all together. "Premium" is simply not that experience.
• xKingfisher 1y ago
  I've had the opposite experience recently. Going from downtown Los Angeles to Santa Monica is $30s for a Waymo and runs up to $50s for Uber/Lyft (sometimes). Otherwise, they tend to be within a few dollars. I figured it was a combination of Google subsidizing rides and a lack of a "traffic tax". They're a significantly better experience for 45+ minute rides.
• somewhatrandom9 1y ago
  Speaking to a European woman, she said she was not surprised women would pay more not to be harassed. I guess in her country there is more of that. Me, I enjoy human interaction, but the European female angle on taxi "safety" was something I hadn't considered.
  • lotsofpulp 1y ago
    Most American women, and women all over the world, would say the same thing.
• NotAnOtter 1y ago
  The new age version of cabs are over fit, people take them for many things they don't need. Me included; I no longer ask my siblings/friends/spouse to take me to the airport, I just order a lyft/uber where as I wasn't doing that with cabs 10 years ago. People are catching on to that reality but at least WayMo offers something novel.
• 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
  I just realized why I'd pay premium for Waymo. Sometimes rideshare drivers refuse to pick up my fare, or get lost, or cancel a trip halfway to me. A robot car (one would hope) wouldn't do those things. Get rid of the human bullshit? Take my money.
• AustinDev 1y ago
  [flagged]
• steveBK123 1y ago
  How much of this is just new entrant, unprofitable disruption & pre-enshitification? Like the first 5-10 years of zipcar…
• noahbp 1y ago
  This would change if there wasn’t a culture of giving 5 stars to every driver. It started because Uber unfairly punished good drivers for very good but honest 4/5 reviews, and now every Uber driver who uses their phone while driving or has an interior smelling of cigarette smoke gets 5 stars out of obligation.
• Suppafly 1y ago
  I suspect they are more reliable and the end user experience is better.
• Detrytus 1y ago
  Is it just a matter of Waymo being tourist attraction? Last time when I was in LA my friends and me, we had a rental car to go around, but we still took couple of Waymo rides just for fun. With enough demand from people who have "autonomous car ride" on their bucket list the price can be much higher, as Uber/Lyft are not really competing in the same category.
• FabHK 1y ago
  Wow, USD 8 to 11 per km. Hong Kong taxis cost USD 3.5 for the first 2 km, then USD 1.4/km, and less than a dollar per km above USD 13. https://www.td.gov.hk/en/transport_in_hong_kong/public_transport/taxi/taxi_fare_of_hong_kong/index.html https://www.td.gov.hk/en/transport_in_hong_kong/public_trans...
  • danielbarla 1y ago
    The prices are pretty shocking for me too (Hungary). I don't use taxis much due to the city being pretty walkable, and there being good public transport, but a quick check says that taxis here have a base fare of 3.16 USD, after which it's 1.26 USD per km or 0.32 USD per minute, depending on the billing option (the two are roughly equal around 15 km/h speed). Another thing that is odd for me is that for all 3 companies in the article, the average trip seems to be less than 2 km. I'm slightly more "walkey" than the average person for sure, but that is a leisurely 15 minute walk, and on the threshold of the distance I would start considering public transport for. With bags to the airport, sure, I'd take a taxi. But I find it hard to believe that the average person is ~2 km from the airport, so the median trip is likely done without extensive luggage at an _even shorter_ distance. I find this kind of absurd.
• jen20 1y ago
  Unfortunately in Austin, Waymo have screwed the pooch by making their service only available through Uber, with no way of saying you only want Waymo instead of a human driver. I used an Uber the other day out of necessity, and the driver smelled so bad I had to stop the ride and get out.
• horns4lyfe 1y ago
  Well ya, it’s better
• patrickhogan1 1y ago
  Uber is increasingly annoying where it will delay putting in an order for a ride and then try to upsell you. As in upgrade to Uber plus or black to get a faster time. If there is a concert or game and big demand spike I get it. But it’s doing it on almost every ride in SF. Upsell nags are annoying but seemingly extending my trip time to upsell is unforgivable.
• nmca 1y ago
  I get motion sick more easily than most, and a Waymo is much much smoother than a typical uber driver. I am happy to pay a fairly large time&momey premium for this.
• data_maan 1y ago
  This is as much about Uber/Lyft, as it is about the (nonexistent) level of politeness in the vest (US+Europe). Have you ever taken a Uber in Japan? The driver will make him/herself invisible. The space in the car is, factually, your space. No phone conversations on their part, no music, no odours. Waymo won't thrive in Japan, because it offers nothing extra advantages to regular Uber. We suck in the west in terms of customer friendliness.
  • cAtte_ 1y ago
    so, in your opinion, the best way to be polite is to not exist? that's a nice outlook on humanity
    • data_maan 1y ago
      Hah! The converse to your claim is: the only way to exist is to intrude on other people space (by loud talking, hearing music etc).;)
      • lotsofpulp 1y ago
        Contrapositive is the logistically consistent statement, and that does not involve intruding in others’ space (depending on one’s definition of intrude, I guess).
        • data_maan 1y ago
          You're right about the contrapositive, but wrong about its meaning in this context. OP said: polite => not exist. I said: exist => not polite (the contrapositive). Thus this very well involves potentially intruding on other people's space :)
  • 1776smithadam 1y ago
    > Have you ever taken a Uber in Japan? You're being snarky but it's obvious you're speaking from the prospective of a foreign tourist who has only been to Tokyo and major cities while not being able to speak Japanese. You're making a strong but false generalisations as a tourist. The tourist aspect is important because of the anthropic principle. If you were a local who was in the inaka where Uber doesn't operate and you had to reserve a taxi by phone in Japanese, you'd have an entirely different experience. Japanese people are notoriously introverted and shy. That's why people don't make small talk especially on a taxi. Plus, if they presume you're a tourist who doesn't speak Japanese, why bother? It's also not true that it's "your space". Just because the driver and other service people aren't confronting you on your behavior doesn't mean it's socially approved behavior. Japanese people silently judged and tourists can't even notice. There is an unspoken rule you keep your conversation with your fellow passenger private and quiet. Even wearing a perfume/cologne in a communal space, which a taxi is, can be considered rude. If the reason people prefer Waymo is because they're introverted and not just avoid socializing but avoid being the presence of other people alltogether, then it's entirely possible for Waymo to do okay in Japan. > The space in the car is, factually, your space. This such an arrogant Westerner thing to think and say. Until you can step out of that, you will never understand Japan like you think you do.
• wyager 1y ago
  There was a while, early on, where (at least in the areas I used it) the modal Uber driver was a college student or a (semi-)retired person looking for something to do. Generally polite, fluent in English, upwardly mobile or already successful. Cars were higher quality and cleaner than taxis. Now, the modal Uber driver seems to be relatively rude, cannot speak English well, seems financially desperate, and drives a dirty/crappy car. Even if I pay extra for "comfort" I often get a pretty junky car. It's basically as bad as a taxi. When the human element is a substantial net negative on the whole experience, I'll pay extra to avoid the human element.
• nottorp 1y ago
  Not "people". Early adopters willing to pay the early adopter tax. By the way, why hasn't all this automation triggered lower prices for anything? Why doesn't the self checkout at a supermarket give you a discount for doing their job?
• drusepth 1y ago
  It's like 5-10% more for a Waymo (which is nothing in the $10-30 range) and you don't have to talk to anyone and/or sit in awkward silence for the ride. Yeah, I'll pay that every time.
• xivzgrev 1y ago
  why is it surprising that Waymo costs more, and people pay anyway? Waymo is prioritizing safety over all things and is in gradual roll out mode. The easiest way to contain demand is to raise prices. and...what's not to love about riding in the future for a few bucks more?
• almosthere 1y ago
  I've only used Uber a handfull of times, and all of them at least 7 years ago - nothing recent. Last time I used it was late at night, I had used an Uber to get Pizza but it was kind of far from my hotel. After eating I used it again to get a ride back. Unfortunately whatever driver it chose for me, decided to just SIT for an hour at their house (or somewhere). And then finally left. It was like 11pm, middle of nowhere and I was freezing cold. I'd rather choose a Waymo than freeze my ass off. This was an area that had so few drivers (I wasn't from here so I had no idea).
  • epistasis 1y ago
    This is a huge huge huge problem for Uber. They have severely degraded their one key fearure: reliable knowledge that your taxi is on its way. This is the entire point of Uber versus a regular taxi.
• franciscop 1y ago
  Reading the comments here, the experiences people are sharing feels out-of-world since I live in Tokyo and it's unthinkable to have a bad experience in a Taxi/Shareride like that. They've always been very professional, the highest quality I could expect. Cars always clean, driver always polite, etc. Sure, there WILL be some edge case out there, but I've ridden taxis and Uber many times here and not a single odd experience, nothing at all like what is being described in these messages.
  • Shank 1y ago
    > I live in Tokyo I also live in Tokyo and surely you’re not expecting Japanese taxi standards to be remotely comparable to US Uber or Lyft, right? It’s a race to the bottom in any major US metro. Japanese taxis are refined and designed around passenger comfort. There is a specific model of car for Taxis. In the US you’re rolling the dice on what Uber or Lyft offer.
    • franciscop 1y ago
      I'm not from the US, I'm from Spain and while they are better in Japan than in Spain, it's not like the "out-of-world" difference that I'm seeing in these comments. That's why I'm confused, I expected the US to be similar to Europe in these regards. I have taken Uber a couple of times while traveling to the US (long ago though), and while they were dirtier than in other countries it wasn't that bad as the comments suggest. So either things have gone dramatically downhill or I had a "good" experience in my brief US rides relatively speaking. As a non-American, I am not sure why it's so crazy to think standards would be high in other countries? Grab standards and quality in e.g. Taiwan, Thailand, etc IS within the same order of magnitude as Japan and those are much poorer countries than the US.
  • kalleboo 1y ago
    I live in Japan outside of Tokyo and over COVID about a quarter of the taxi drivers retired/quit the business, now on a weekend it can be impossible to get a cab at all. Waymo would be a godsend here!
• jbverschoor 1y ago
  Surprise. I’m happy to pay Apple tax in return for ease of use and cancellation
• patchtopic 1y ago
  just read this before so I can see why https://old.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/1lbn0fs/is_it_normal_in_melbourne_for_ubers_to_cancel_the/ https://old.reddit.com/r/melbourne/comments/1lbn0fs/is_it_no...
• thordenmark 1y ago
  The novelty of Waymo, as well as not having to interact with a stranger (especially for women, my wife used Waymo and liked it) makes Waymo a compelling option.
  • IshKebab 1y ago
    I agree. At least in San Francisco it's still a tourist attraction. I took two rides when I visited that were twice the price of an Uber and I only did that for the novelty. Definitely wouldn't if I lived there.
• DecentShoes 1y ago
  I would pay the extra since there's no driver to talk to me.
• LightBug1 1y ago
  Turns out people value the experience (and their lives) ... huh.
• gnrlst 1y ago
  After the initial 60 seconds of shock that nobody is at the wheel, the rest of the ride makes you quickly realize how much better AI is at driving than regular humans.
• andrewfromx 1y ago
  tried to take a waymo today in LA: https://i.imgur.com/ufoDjue.png https://i.imgur.com/ufoDjue.png
• bryanrasmussen 1y ago
  if products cost more than other products in a similar domain and people are paying anyway I would naturally assume the more expensive products are a luxury brand, and given some of the other comments here I'd think my assumption borne out.
• scoobernut 1y ago
  If you pay more now you just proved to Waymo they can charge even more later. Way to go. Once they corner the market it will cost even more than uber/lyft/taxi today.
• nu11ptr 1y ago
  It might be more expensive now because it is novel, but over time, as it commoditizes and more competition enters, prices will likely go down. Also, this is how the free market works. The actual users decide what something is worth based on using their wallets. Is it more valuable to have solitude and your own space in the car? Or better to have human interaction? The market will decide.
• maxlin 1y ago
  This bodes well for Tesla. After their product is fully ready and released, regardless if it takes 5 years, with any sense it's going to be the cheapest, will reach anywhere (no requirement for mapping, can reliably calculate to the limit of its range), AND have the privacy benefits of a self driving cab.
• 1oooqooq 1y ago
  obvious paid advertisement is obvious
• sgarland 1y ago
  The novelty aside (I don’t live in a service region for Waymo, so I can only try it if I fly out to SFO for work), I will happily pay a premium to have a consistent experience where I don’t have to potentially deal with an obnoxious driver. That sounds misanthropic, I know, but for every good experience I’ve had where the car was clean and the driver was either silent, or interesting to talk to, I’ve had five others where that was not the case.
• johnisgood 1y ago
  I admit I did not go further than the title, because I assume the conclusion is in the title. Waymo is considerably cheaper in LA (at least in a region) than Uber. I have no clue about Lyft. I know this for a fact, because someone I know has taken Waymos and Ubers between the two identical points, around the same time of day, multiple times, and Waymo has always been way cheaper, considerably so.
• tchbnl 1y ago
  I'll happily pay extra to never interact with another human. I'd live in a cave and yell at passersbys if I could.
• specialist 1y ago
  Ride share grifts (Uber, Lyft) extract wealth from drivers. Morally equiv to MLMs, value added resellers, platforms (Amazon, Spotify, Meta, etc). It feels icky being an accomplice. Less importantly, I now despise the degradation of driving etiquette and overall safety. At least as much as I despised taxis. eg don't block traffic loading / unloading; there's a loading zone RIGHT THERE, ffs.
• bloppe 1y ago
  "there is an idea that autonomous vehicles are something that will erode driver jobs and put drivers at risk. And I think the irony of what we’ve seen is that it’s actually quite expensive to run an AV, and that that’s not going to be happening, at least in the near term" Why are they assuming the higher price results from supply rather than demand? Seems like a no brainer that waymo will trounce drivers on price once adequately scaled
• fooker 1y ago
  This is why Uber was aggressively fighting for getting self driving tech.
• anordin95 1y ago
  Surprisingly, it appears TechCrunch's analysis regarding price ratios and trip distance is a bit off! From the article: "This was true of the Uber and Lyft rides, too. But Obi found the shortest Waymo rides were priced 41.48% and 31.12% higher than Uber and Lyft, respectively. That gap shrunk as the rides got longer. In rides lasting between 4.3 km and 9.3 km, a Lyft cost $2.60 per km, an Uber cost $2.90 per km, and a Waymo cost $3.50 per km." Relative increase in cost of Waymo vs. Lyft by trip-distance (inferred from the article's chart): 0.1 - 1.4km: 40% 1.4 - 2.2km: 45% 2.2 - 2.9km: 46% 2.9 - 4.3km: 39% 4.3 - 9.3km: 35% That seems like pretty minor fluctuation and even then it doesn't entirely fit the pattern TechCrunch described.
• RAdrien 1y ago
  There was some report in the New York Times while back that indicated that these companies staff a remote operator for every three of these cars, or something close to that, so the idea that they’re fully automated is a pretense, and the price needs to make up for the cost of remote assistance
• mcqueenjordan 1y ago
  I haven't read all the comments and I'm sure someone else made a similar point, but my first thought was the flip the direction of the statement: "Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft /because/ people are willing to pay more".
• ElCapitanMarkla 1y ago
  We were in LA 2 weeks ago and got to ride in a Waymo for the first time. We took a few 45min+ trips and would compared prices with Uber each time. Waymo was consistently cheaper, by a lot. $60+ for the Uber quote vs $20-30 for Waymo.
• andrewstuart 1y ago
  How much mo you pay? Waymo.
• SomeUserName432 1y ago
  I mostly use Uber and find the pricing from my perspective to be random and opaque. The price for a trip may be 3x compared to yesterday, but as long as I don't own car, I'm going to be requesting a ride either way. Consistently high prices might lead me to get my own car again, I don't know. To me, the main selling point of app A or B isn't minor price differences, it's "will the car actually get here?" Frequent cancellations, uber drivers accepting the trip, driving around for eons then cancelling. This is definitely an experience I'd be willing to pay extra to avoid.