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Grok3 Launch [video]
- kristofferR 2y ago[flagged]
- ein0p 2y ago[flagged]
- kristofferR 2y agoYou should watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C27PlV_zijk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C27PlV_zijk
- defrost 2y ago"It's like looking for groceries in a landfill." (Yeah, you'll find some edible food but it takes time and meanwhile you're covered in garbage)
- kristofferR 2y agoYeah, that's a great analogy.
- defrost 2y agoIsn't it just? It's from the opening lines of the closing segment of the the video you linked. Not a bad discussion of the unfolding of news and social media responses follwing the shooting of Donald Trump's ear on the campaign trail.
- aprilthird2021 2y agoWhy did we start talking about news as "legacy media"? I mean, at least it has journalistic standards and some semblance of fact checking compared to social media which has given us great gaffes such as identifying the wrong Boston Marathon bomber and getting the poor guy to kill himself, wrongly identifying the Hispanic white supremacist shooter, and many many more.
- staticman2 2y agoWhen someone here says they don't like the news I assume it's because the only newsworthy topic in their mind is "Just how COOL is the new Iphone? Very!" Twitter is well suited to deliver the newest developments on this topic.
- ein0p 2y agoHere's why: https://news.gallup.com/poll/651977/americans-trust-media-remains-trend-low.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/651977/americans-trust-media-re... Mainstream outlets have viewerships that compare disfavorably to those of top youtubers. That has been the case for many years now. The only reason most mainstream outlets exist is the taxpayer money train that's coming to an abrupt stop as I write this.
- aprilthird2021 2y agoMainstream news had viewerships disfavorable to sports games and sitcoms. So what? It's not entertainment. It's informative. They of course have different viewerships
- ein0p 2y ago> It's informative. This is not supported by evidence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4RYyYtD6i4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4RYyYtD6i4
- aprilthird2021 2y agoYour evidence is a YouTube video with 100 views? Wtf
- ein0p 2y agoThe statement is true irrespective of the number of views. If you watch the news you are misinformed. You believe things that just aren't true at all. From time to time your view of the world clashes with reality, and you reject the reality and substitute it with your own. Many such cases.
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoSo, uh, Fort Knox has been robbed then? https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891566355532349445 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891566355532349445
- ein0p 2y agoI guess we'll see won't we? There's no harm in checking, just like with everything else.
- aprilthird2021 2y agoI didn't know about this. But I asked it if Elon Musk and DOGE randomly firing as many government workers as they can from all federal departments might be dangerous to Americans and it was pretty honest that yeah, it could be.
- staticman2 2y agoThey've been training the model for a while, right? It's unlikely he could have known Trump would let him rampage through the federal government when they started training it.
- spiderfarmer 2y agoTweet this @musk and he’ll make sure grok jumps in line.
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoI find it interesting that these two descriptions of news are treated as equivalent, where I think they're almost opposing: "raw, unfiltered news" "real, trustworthy news" Raw and unfiltered almost cannot be "news" (by my definition of what I go seeking for as "news"). X provides raw, unfiltered information. But real, trustworthy news almost requires filtration in order to be deemed trustworthy.
- modeless 2y agoPeople actually trying the model report that it does not say anything like this when asked the same question. Elon somehow prompted the model to bash The Information for his screenshot.
- xqcgrek2 2y agoLooks impressive. OpenAI and Sam Altman might be cooked if its as capable as advertised.
- rendang 2y agoI missed the first half hour, any highlights?
- therein 2y agoIt would be satisfying if he gets called out for repeating himself next time he tries to come out and say he is scared how powerful their next model is.
- taejavu 2y agoDespite explicitly requesting the tetris/bejeweled hybrid to be "insanely impressive", the result was ugly and clunky. With that demo running in the background, they then segued into a hiring pitch for a new AI game studio. Consider me unimpressed.
- stuckkeys 2y agoThey might try to have a senator block it or make it a crime to use it…wait Elon is the president. I guess they cannot.
- rich_sasha 2y ago[flagged]
- andsoitis 2y agoDoesn’t OpenAI claim their work will lead to artificial general intelligence? That seems like a much steeper gradient to climb. Hype is the fuel that bootstraps fortunes in techtopia.
- hobs 2y agoLying about FSD for almost a decade now through your teeth isn't "hype" - it's just bullshit.
- quyleanh 2y ago[flagged]
- JoelJacobson 2y agohttps://grok.com/ https://grok.com/ 500 Internal Server Error nginx/1.27.4
- LorenDB 2y agoElon just said they are launching an AI game studio. Does this mean they will be building games that are mostly built with AI, or will they make AI tooling available for anyone to build games easily? Probably the former, but it would be nice if they would make it fully available to everyone.
- bemmu 2y agoIt seemed to me that he was joking.
- chrisco255 2y agoHe's not joking, and it's not the first time it was announced.
- bemmu 2y agoYou may be right, he tweeted about it already last year, and seemed to confirm it again yesterday https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1861801046949191686 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1861801046949191686 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891388509191049307 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1891388509191049307
- TheDudeMan 2y agoMaybe he was joking about the Roaster 2, also.
- ta988 2y ago[flagged]
- rendang 2y agoGrok has gotten to the top of one benchmark: https://x.com/lmarena_ai/status/1891706264800936307 https://x.com/lmarena_ai/status/1891706264800936307 It's been said before but it is great news for consumers that there's so much competition in the LLM space. If it's hard for any one player to get daylight between them & the 2nd best alternative, hopefully that means one monopolistic firm isn't going to be sucking up all the value created by these things
- aprilthird2021 2y agoI think it's already clear that these are going to be commoditized and the free / open source versions will be good enough to capture enough of the value that the remaining players will not be Facebook-level monopolies on the space
- rendang 2y agoApparently it isn't clear to the investors valuing OpenAI at >300B. Possibly they're betting that the ecosystem & integrations around their models will generate a certain amount of lock-in or otherwise make the difference in a close-to-even field
- hmottestad 2y agoFunnily enough a lot of the open source world has landed on an API that is basically a copy of OpenAI. So if you develop against OpenAI it’s almost a slot in solution to switch to an open source solution.
- pzo 2y agoand on top of that you have solutions like openrouter.ai where you can route inference easily with a combobox
- riffraff 2y agoInvestors thought someone renting office space was going to revolutionize the world and valued their company 50B.
- Rover222 2y agoGrok 3 at the top of Chatboat Arena with 1400, and the model will continue to improve as it trains more.
- Rover222 2y ago[flagged]
- rvz 2y agoNo idea why was this downvoted, but you are correct. Seems like the team at xAI caught up very quickly to OpenAI to be at the top of the leaderboard in one of the benchmarks and also caught up with features with Grok 3. Giving credit where credit is due, even though this is a race to zero.
- Rover222 2y agoYeah, so many people aren't capable of talking about anything Musk-adjacent with clear thoughts. It's insane how quickly xAI went from not existing, to the top of the benchmarks.
- nhod 2y agoI'm not sure what you mean here? Musk has a history of doing both incredibly useful and cool things, and also incredibly dumb, cruel, and for some people even terrible things. That context should be part of any clear thinking around him. He does not get a clean slate in every new discussion of him. There are widespread, legitimate concerns about what kind of person Elon Musk is turning out to be. There is a lot of chatter about fears of China's AI rise, but what happens if we get Elon's brand of cruelty and lack of empathy in an authoritarian superintelligent AI ? Is that the AI future we want? Can you imagine an SAI with real power that interacts with people like Elon does on Twitter? I am not sure that is a future I want to live in.
- Rover222 2y agoWe’re trying to talk about the capabilities of Grok and you can only focus on Musk. That’s what I’m talking about.
- zone411 2y agoApparently the API will only be available in a few weeks, so I can't run my independent benchmarks yet.
- CSMastermind 2y agoI'm waiting for this as well, though I did try to run several manually now that it's live and the results have been impressive so far.
- drpossum 2y agoThanks for the update.
- ngai_aku 2y agoAny guess on its availability at that point? Is it likely to be limited to certain tiers like o1?
- justinbaker84 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ilaksh 2y agoIf what they say is true, then you have to give them credit for catching up incredibly fast. And slightly pulling ahead. Not only with the models, but also products.
- Rover222 2y agoAnd they mentioned at the end of the presentation that they're already planning their next datacenter, which will require 5x the power. Not sure if that means equivalent to ~1,000,000 of the current GPU's, or more because next-gen Nvidia chips are more efficient.
- grubbs 2y agoThe B300 8-way SXMs will use around 1.4kW for each GPU. I think the TDP on an H100 is like 700W.
- htfy96 2y agoI have a close friend working in core research teams there. Based on our chats, the secret seems to be (1) massive compute power (2) ridiculous pay to attract top talents from established teams (3) extremelly hard work without big corp bureaucracy.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nomilk 2y agoIt was mentioned during the launch that current datacenter requires up to 0.25 gigawatts of power. The datacenter they're currently building will require 1.25 (5x) (for reference, a nuclear powerplant might output about 1 gigawatt). Will be interesting to see if the relationship between power/compute/parameters and performance is exponential, logarithmic or something more linear.
- ncr100 2y ago[flagged]
- behnamoh 2y agoWill he do what he promised and open source Grok 2 now?
- guappa 2y agoI'm sure not.
- rvz 2y agoI'd expect them to open source it just like they did with Grok. We're still waiting for OpenAI to do the same. Even at least GPT-3.
- andsoitis 2y ago> We're still waiting for OpenAI to do the same. Even at least GPT-3. The exact details of OpenAI's models and training data are not fully disclosed, which can raise concerns about potential biases or vulnerabilities.
- vasco 2y agoYou just have to use openai for 5 minutes and you'll see the pretty evident biases.
- 1024core 2y agoThe question came up and he said they would, once Grok-3 is fully released.
- FergusArgyll 2y agoNote: this is "before April" so not a complete assessment https://manifold.markets/SaviorofPlant/will-xai-open-source-grok-2-before https://manifold.markets/SaviorofPlant/will-xai-open-source-...
- behnamoh 2y agoWe know RLHF and alignment degrades model quality. could it be that Grok, due to its less restrictive training guidelines (and the fact that its creators aren't afraid of getting sued), can achieve higher performance partly due to this simple factor?
- nialv7 2y ago> We know RLHF and alignment degrades model quality. I feel you can't make statements like this without giving some sources. IIUC, without RLHF/alignment, the model won't even be able to chat with you, it would just be a document completion engine.
- porridgeraisin 2y agoYou're both right because RLHF and fine-tuning are just techniques. It's dependent on the training data and not as much the method. So, if you make the RLHF/finetune data such that it avoids certain topics, then you reduce model quality in practice since your training data might accidentally cast a net wide enough that you make it avoid certain legitimate questions. On benchmarks these things don't typically show up though. But yes. Those techniques are required for making it chat. Otherwise it just autocompletes from the internet. It is also used in a couple of other places (reasoning/search(hallucination mitigation))
- sunaookami 2y agoThey will open-source Grok 2 when Grok 3 comes out. Also it seems like it will be paywalled - disappointing considering DeepSeek-R1 is free and open source.
- aprilthird2021 2y agoYeah not sure what profit these guys think they'll be able to squeeze out of these models with open source and free clearly being 95% as good
- imjonse 2y agoExclusive contracts with the defense industry or similar deals?
- aprilthird2021 2y agoThat probably won't come close to justifying the current valuation of either OpenAI or Grok (idk how much investment it took in or how much it has spent so far).
- ks2048 2y agoHaving the keys to the treasury department will probably help.
- CSMastermind 2y agoKarpathy gave his initial impression: https://x.com/karpathy/status/1891720635363254772 https://x.com/karpathy/status/1891720635363254772 The pull quote is: The impression overall I got here is that this is somewhere around (OpenAI) o1-pro capability
- sigmoid10 2y agoThe impression seems to be warranted: Grok 3 has directly jumpted to the top of all leaderboard categories in Chatbot Arena: https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard In math it shares the top spot with o1 and is just a few points behind (well within errors). In creative writing it is basically ex-aequo with the latest ChatGPT 4o and in coding it's actually significantly ahead of everyone else and represents a new SOTA.
- bboygravity 2y ago[flagged]
- ban-evader 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- numpad0 2y agoConsidering that OpenAI subscription is $200 per month, and "Premium Plus" subscription that includes this thing is only $40 per month, does that mean instantaneous "Elon factor" is now at least -$160 per month per user, or is it supposed to be added up to more than -$240 per month? How would the math change after factoring in that OpenAI isn't even covering entirety of opex with the sub anyway, and/or people finding associating their money and Twitter accounts to be weird, and/or this thing is supposedly running on a bigger cluster than that for OpenAI?
- JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y agoCompanies have hijacked the open source concept to mean downloadable blob and we follow them as I see in the comments. It’s a real shame.
- raverbashing 2y agoBetter a downloadable blob than a non-downloadable one
- kortilla 2y agoCool, that’s not open source though. That’s like a chef giving you chicken instead of beef and calling it vegetarian.
- ineedasername 2y agoI’d say it’s more like eating Chicken Cordon Bleu and then asking the chef for a recipe, who replies, “Certainly! Step 1) Acquire Chicken Cordon Bleu, preferably cooked. Step 2) if uncooked, cook. Otherwise, consume
- aiono 2y agoParent doesn't argue about that. How is this relevant?
- nicce 2y agoThis is the problem - we accept this approach and then they don't have to do any effort to correctly publish them in open means.
- frabcus 2y agoNo, it's not, as it means nobody is pushing for actually open models. A truly open model has open code that gathers pre-training data, open pre-training data, open RLHF data, open RLAIF data generated from its open constitution and so on. The binary blob is the last thing I'd want - as a heavy user of LLMs I'm actually more interested in the detail of what all training data is in full, than I am the binary blob.
- ddxv 2y agoI think they put the new model behind a $40 paywall so less people use it. The model seems only marginally better than open source models, based on xAI's own internal tests, and they spend $$$ money for it to run. Elon talked in the second half about making one of the largest GPU data centers just to get this running. I guess the next iteration they'll be trying to reduce the costs. Also, they will be open sourcing Grok 2, which is probably pretty behind at this point, but will still be interesting for people to check out.
- modeless 2y agoI am excited for the voice mode promised in "a week" or so. ChatGPT Advanced Voice has been a big disappointment for me. It can't do some of the things they demoed at the announcement. It's a lot dumber than text mode. I find the voice recognition unreliable. I couldn't get it to act as a translator last time I tried. But most of all I find I don't have much to talk to it about. If Grok 3 voice mode can discuss current events from the X timeline then it should be much more interesting to talk to.
- nprateem 2y ago[flagged]
- oulipo 2y ago[flagged]
- breakitmakeit 2y ago[dead]
- chrisco255 2y ago[flagged]
- mnewme 2y agoBecause running a company is different to running a state and we doubt his intentions, not his skills. Someone that is not elected gets 8mill/day from the government now overseas the government with some 20-year old fanatics that can’t even put up a secure website for DOGE?
- chrisco255 2y agoYeah, most of the government isn't elected, that's how it works. You only vote for 3 roles in the Federal government (I guess 4 if you count the veep). The rest of them are hired. For those downvoting, the roles are President, Vice President, Senator, and Representative. Outside of that, everyone is hired / appointed.
- mnewme 2y agoYes but in most modern societies we have laws against conflict of interest…
- addandsubtract 2y agoBeing appointed is still different from being hired. It's a process that includes oversight and background checks.
- givinguflac 2y ago“Outside of that, everyone is hired / appointed.” Tell me you don’t know how the US government works without telling me you don’t know how the US government works, why don’t you?
- chrisco255 2y agoArticle II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the US Constitution: ""[The President] shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: *but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.*" Emphasis on the last sentence. There have been a plethora of such vestments in the Executive branch over the decades. 5 U.S.C. § 105 - This statute authorizes the creation of "necessary agencies" within the Executive Office, giving the President flexibility to establish entities like the USDS and staff them as needed, subject to funding. 5 U.S.C. § 3101 - This law states that "each Executive agency" (including the EOP) "may employ such number of employees ... as Congress may appropriate for." It implies broad authority to hire staff, with Congress controlling the budget but not necessarily the individual appointments. Excepted Service Authority (5 U.S.C. § 3301 and Schedule A) - Under 5 CFR § 213.3102, agencies like the OMB can use Schedule A hiring authority for positions requiring specialized skills (e.g., tech expertise) that aren’t practical to fill through standard civil service exams. This authority, delegated by Congress via the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 (Public Law 95-454) and regulations from the Office of Personnel Management (OPM), allows the President (or OMB leadership) to appoint USDS personnel directly. Term Appointments - Many roles are temporary or term-limited (e.g., 2-4 years), often filled by detailees from other agencies or private-sector experts. These don’t require Senate confirmation because they aren’t permanent "officers." This flexibility is supported by 5 U.S.C. § 3161, which allows temporary organizations within the executive branch to hire staff for specific projects.
- mnewme 2y agoMusk already has too much power, won’t trust him with my AI conversations
- piperly 2y agoBut you trust Google, OpenAI, and whatnot with it?
- procaryote 2y agoTrust is a strong word, but there are levels of hell
- marticode 2y agoBetween your average corporate megacorp and a drugged-out antivax fascist, I'll take my chances with the former yes.
- misiti3780 2y agoantivax lol - give it a rest man
- xzjis 2y agoYes that's true: Elon Musk isn't an antivax, he's just a (neo-)Nazi
- misiti3780 2y agoYou clearly don't understand the definition of Nazi, but that's on you
- marticode 2y agoHe has been publicly attacking Fauci for his handling of Covid and retweeting antivax people
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- Swoerd 2y ago[flagged]
- patrick4urcloud 2y ago[flagged]
- man4 2y ago[dead]
- apples_oranges 2y agoI'm no longer considering a Tesla but I still think Starlink is great..
- ensocode 2y agoWhat are your first impressions using it? (Not available in Europe currently). Is it a game-changer?
- weberer 2y ago>Not available in Europe currently I hate how its the same story for every new AI technology. If someone can tell me who to vote for or where to protest to change this awful EU law, that would be great.
- superflow 2y agototally agree. And this is one of the reasons the EU is falling more and more behind, all the silly regulations.
- cbg0 2y agoThe EU regulations are there to protect the average citizen, not to help the 1% run wild with whatever business idea they have. You personally might not like it, but the non-entrepreneurs, which is most people, are pretty satisfied that the laws in the EU are more focused on the citizen and their rights and not on boosting the shareholders' profits.
- weberer 2y agoHow exactly am I being protected by not having access to the latest models that the rest of the world has?
- cbg0 2y agoNothing is stopping X from complying with EU regulations to make it available to you. I'd wager that they most likely lack compute capacity to make it available everywhere, not legal compliance.
- 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- albertzeyer 2y agohttps://garymarcus.substack.com/p/elon-musks-terrifying-vision-for https://garymarcus.substack.com/p/elon-musks-terrifying-visi... I'm not sure if this was a very bad joke by Elon, or if Grok 3 is really biased like that.
- ReptileMan 2y ago> Everyone—and not just The Information—should be genuinely terrified that the richest man in the world has built a Large Language Model that spouts propaganda in his image. If we survived Gemini refusing to draw white vikings we will survive that too.
- llm_trw 2y agoIt did give us racially diverse Nazis though. Not sure if grok would do that.
- int_19h 2y agoThe real concern isn't that Grok chatbot will be biased if you ask it a question like that. In any case, knowing Musk, it won't be subtle, so people will know what they are getting. No, the real worry is that Grok is what Musk's "young conservative genius" squad is going to put in charge of many of the things in our government, basically, on the basis that it saves money.
- unclebucknasty 2y ago>In any case, knowing Musk, it won't be subtle Or, that "conditioning" would have us assume as much.
- cbg0 2y agoA bit apples to oranges on that comparison there.
- cm2187 2y ago[flagged]
- dazzaji 2y ago[flagged]
- frotaur 2y agoI'm very sorry if this isn't the case, but this message really feels LLM-written.
- Oarch 2y agoI'm a big fan of sprinkling in a little profanity just to pass the LLM bullshit check
- tmikaeld 2y agoIt may also be deliberate, I know a lot of people that are very dyslexic and are using AI for making themselves understood online.
- dazzaji 2y agoIt’s gracious of you to say that you’d be sorry, and I did run my comment through 4o (perhaps ironically) which caught a slew of typos and weird grammar issues and offered some improvements. But the robotic sound and anything else you don’t like are my own responsibility. Do you, perhaps, have any thoughts on the substance of the comment?
- infecto 2y agoIt's not the robotic sound or the content. 4o has very easy tells that it wrote (rewrote) the content. It uses an insane amount of em dashes.
- Igrom 2y agoThat's discomforting. My practice of sprinkling em-dashes like salt on a salad dates from my early days on various video game communities' forums. They comfortably mimic interrupted speech in writing. I hope I won't have to soon defend myself against accusations of AI usage just because I belong to the minority that read The Punctuation Guide[0] or a related resource. [0] https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/em-dash.html https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/em-dash.html
- makerofthings 2y ago[flagged]
- yuppii 2y ago[flagged]
- ddxv 2y agoWhat lie are you talking about? That he supports far right parties? That he did some kind of gesture which the video looks like a Nazi salute but he says was just the my heart goes out to you gesture? Neither seem to be that the OP was lying, but I understand you have a different opinion than they do.
- Workaccount2 2y agoOP said he did a Nazi Salute. He did not do a Nazi salute. He did something that people who fetishize the downfall of their enemy desperately want to be Nazi salute, so they call it that, but it was not a nazi salute. If it was he would have said so, since at that point you are basically showing the world you are a nazi. But that is not what happened. People really don't take their credibility seriously, and will cry wolf at anything that moves, seriously undermining any argument they make. There are ample ways to hate on Elon using factually true things he has done. Sticking to those makes your arguments rock solid, and keeps your credibility high. So much is wasted by idiots slinging smoke because it makes themselves feel right.
- abrahamepton 2y agoIf it looks like a Nazi salute and is done by a Nazi to honor another Nazi while adoring Nazis cheer, why do I care that you think it’s not Nazi?
- ddxv 2y agoWhat if he does it again and just says "My heart goes out to you" and does the same hand throwing gesture? Just curious what you think in that hypothetical. To me it seemed like he did it to troll 'libs' who dislike gestures like that. There always exists a difference between what a person thinks of their own motive and how it is seen by others. In this case, while he might say he did one thing, many people took it to mean something else. Both those are true.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- lionkor 2y agoI don't understand how and why Grok would be related to "understanding the nature of the universe", as Musk puts it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but they basically just burned more cash than any human should have to buy Nvidia GPUs and make them predict natural language, right? So, they are somewhat on-par with all the other companies that did the same. This is not innovation, this is baseless hype over a mediocre technology. I use AI every day, so it's not like I don't see its uses, it's just not that big of a deal.
- 7bit 2y ago[flagged]
- crocowhile 2y agoYou must be new to Elon's modus operandi.
- kubb 2y agoYou don’t understand the Musk business model. It has been the same for years. His wealth doesn’t come from his products, but from his fanbase buying his stock. The purpose of everything he does is to influence the public opinion to make him the tech genius of today in the collective psyche. Of course, he needs to do impressive things, stuff that a normal person wouldn’t have the resources to achieve. It’s similar to Mr. Beast’s channel on YouTube, just on a way bigger scale. Do things that people can’t see anywhere else. Musk’s money will come from his fans. And ETFs, trust funds and such will amplify this when he reaches a certain market cap. His crypto coins are the exact same scheme. Once you stop thinking in classic business school terms, it starts making way more sense. Some of his ventures actually produce value! But that’s not where the money comes from. It comes from the belief, the adoration and the celebrity status that he has. This is the real power in today’s world. People need to know you from the screen. This clout catapulted him to the government of the US, made him the most wealthy man in the world and given him the license to do anything he wants publicly without repercussions.
- tw1984 2y agoKarpathy believes that this is at o1-pro level[1]. This again proves that OpenAI simply has no tech moat whatsoever. Elon's $97 billion offer for OpenAI last week was reasonable given that xAI already have something just a few months behind - it would probably be faster for xAI to catch up with o3 than going through all those paperworks and lawyer talks required for such an acquisition. Elon also has some huge up-hand here - Elon and his mum are extremely popular in China, it would be easier for him to acquire Chinese AI engineers. He can offer xAI/XSpace/Neurallink shares to those best AI engineers who'd prefer some kind of almost guaranteed 8 figure return in long run. Good luck to OpenAI investors who still believe that OpenAI worth anything more than $100 billion. [1] https://x.com/karpathy/status/1891720635363254772 https://x.com/karpathy/status/1891720635363254772
- UltraSane 2y agoWill the vast sums of money being spent on Grok ever actually have a positive ROI?
- SilverBirch 2y agoFirstly, the 97Bn was for the non-profit, not for the company. The company is being valued in funding rounds closer to 300Bn. I think it may be true that OpenAI has no moat, but if it has no moat then all of these AI companies are overvalued (including xAI) and Elon should just stop bothering to throw his money at it. I would say Elon probably actually doesn't have much of an advantage here. In both SpaceX and Tesla he was able to do something no competitor could do - raise cash. Car companies simply couldn't invest in tech research to build self-driving to compete with Tesla. SpaceX consumed enormous amounts of cash before anyone saw value. That is a unique skill that Elon had over the 2010s. That is not an advantage in a race against Microsoft, Google, Meta etc. he's competing against all the biggest companies in the world in this race. He's not going to be able to outspend them if the economics look at all sensible.
- misiti3780 2y agoI know HN hates to admit it, but FSD 13 is fucking incredible and I use it for 90% of my drives.
- hnroo99 2y agoLooks like they recently updated their ToS as well: https://www.diffchecker.com/w4dbxWwt/ https://www.diffchecker.com/w4dbxWwt/
- phtrivier 2y agoOff topic, but just in case: is there a good reference on how people actually use LLMs on a daily basis ? All my attempts so far have been pretty underwhelming: * when I use chatbots as search engines, I'm very quickly disappointed by obvious hallucinations * I ended up disabling github copilot because it was just "auto-complete on steroids" at best, and "auto-complete on mushrooms" at worst * I rarely have use cases where I have to "generate a plausible page of text that statistically looks like the internet" - usually, when I have to write about something, it's to put information that's in my head into other people head * I'd love to have something that reads all my codebase and draws graphs, explain how things work, etc... But I tried aider/ollama, etc.. and nothing even starts making sense (is that an avenue to persevere in, though ?) * At once, I tried to write in plain english a situation where a team has to do X tasks, in Y weeks, and I needed a table of who should be working on what for each week. I was impressed that LLMs were able to produce a table - the slight problem was that, of course, the table was completely wrong. Again, is it just bad prompting ? It's an interesting problem when you don't know if you're just having a solution in search of a problem, or if you're missing something obvious about how to use a tool. Also, all introductory texts about LLMs go into many details about how they're made (NNs and transformers and large corpuses and lots of electricity etc...) but "what you can do with it" looks like toy examples / simply not what I do." So, what is the "start from here" about what it can really do ?
- concordDance 2y agoBig emuse cases for me are: 1. Exploring a new domain and getting some terms I can google for. 2. Making small scripts to do things like query github's GraphQL API. 3. Autocomplete of code using copilot.
- namaria 2y agoThe only plausible explanation for the amount of resources poured into these language models is the hope that they somehow become the origin of AGI, which I think is pretty fanciful. I can feel the cold wind of the next AI winter coming on. It's inevitable. Computers are good at emulating intelligent behavior, people get excited that it's around the corner, and the hype boils over. This isn't the last time this will happen.
- pveierland 2y agoTLDW. Will this be open weights? This commit seems to indicate so, but neither HF or GH has public data yet: https://huggingface.co/xai-org/grok-1/commit/91d3a51143e7fc2ce362f35b41ffeaca709c6a9c https://huggingface.co/xai-org/grok-1/commit/91d3a51143e7fc2... Edit: Answer from Elon in video is that they plan to make Grok 2 weights open once Grok 3 is stable.
- bearjaws 2y agoThis is how they've done the past releases as well, soon after they release the latest and greatest they open source the last model.
- submeta 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- concordDance 2y agoInteresting thing about this is that because of all the Musk-related overhyping that's gone on and because the launch is a video, the thread that marks the entry of another company into the select group of serious AI companies will go off the front page with possibly only 200 points!
- msuvakov 2y agoTo put it this way: after seeing examples of how a LLM with similar capabilities to state-of-the-art ones can be built with 20 times less money, we now have proof that the same can be done with 20 times more money as well!
- lopatamd 2y agoImagine what they'll achieve if they'll apply deepseek methods here with this insane compute
- iclimbthings 2y agoAnd they will since Deepseek open-sourced everything.
- boroboro4 2y agoThe only thing Deepseek open sourced is architecture description and some of training methods. They didn’t open source their data pipelines or super optimized training code. Their architecture achievement is their own MoE and own attention. Grok was MoE since v1. As for attention we don’t know really what grok use now, but it worth noting DeepSeek attention was already present in previous version of DeepSeek models. As of reasoning recipe for R1 seems like Grok already either replicated or came up to it by itself, since they have well performing reasoning uptrain too.
- jansan 2y agoThere was this joke about rich Russians that I heard maybe 25 years ago. Two rich Russian guys meet and one brags about his new necktie. "Look at this, I paid $500 for it." The other rich Russian guy replies: "Well, that is quite nice, but you have to take better care of your money. I have seen that same necktie just yesterday in another shop for $1000."
- jaysonelliot 2y agoCan you explain that joke for me? I keep reading it and I don't get it.
- greatgib 2y agoBillions spent, one of the most powerful AI developed, and still no one competent enough to trim the 15 mins of waiting time filler at the beginning of the announcement video...
- vachina 2y agoTells me they have spent their entire engineering time on engineering and zero on marketing fluff, which is good.
- throw16180339 2y agoI'm guessing Musk wanted it that way.
- maelito 2y ago[flagged]
- Alifatisk 2y agoDo we have any details on how large the context window is? Or how many input tokens it can handle?
- korantu 2y agoIn the opening blog post they mentioned it to be 1 m tokens.
- lngnmn2 2y agoAnyone else noticed anything? https://lngnmn2.github.io/articles/grok3/ https://lngnmn2.github.io/articles/grok3/
- dankobgd 2y ago[flagged]
- shekhargulati 2y agoI don't know, but I found the recording uninspiring. There was nothing new for me. We've all seen reasoning models by now—we know they work well for certain use cases. We've also seen "Deep Researchers," so nothing new there either. No matter what people say, they're all just copying OpenAI. I'm not a huge fan of OpenAI, but I think they're still the ones showing what can be done. Yes, xAI might have taken less time because of their huge cluster, but it’s not inspiring to me. Also, the dark room setup was depressing.
- pixelsort 2y agoSeems like the opinion of someone who doesn't know that OpenAI cloned Anthropic's innovations of artifacts and computer use with their "canvas" and "operator".
- cromwellian 2y agoThose are applied-ML level advancements, OpenAI has pushed model level advancements. xAI has never really done much it seemed except download the latest papers and reproduce them.
- pixelsort 2y agoDon't forget that OpenAI was also following Anthropic's lead at the model level with o1. They may have been first with single-shot CoT and native tokens, but advancements from the product side matter, and OpenAI has not been as original there some would like to believe.
- swyx 2y agoand Gemini's Deep Research
- swyx 2y ago(forgot to plug their interview https://latent.space/p/gdr https://latent.space/p/gdr)
- 2y ago
- sebzim4500 2y agoControversial opinion but I think the AI game studio idea is a very good one. Not because I think they will make any money off the games, but dogfooding will lead to so much more improvement than relying on feedback from external customers.
- firejake308 2y agoEspecially on code, think of all the free data you get from the generation-evaluation loop
- mobiuscog 2y agoBecause 'dogfooding' has worked so well for other products... If you don't get feedback from the people actually playing your game (or using your product), you will never get the improvement you need to help them. You can have the most talented passionate people there are developing a product, but if it's not working for the people you want to sell it to, it's the wrong product. Most tech products are terrible because those paying for them are not those that have to use them every day, or because they solve a corporate problem (compliance) and not a usability problem which is the actual need from the people on the shop floor. Many big games/products are already built mostly on metrics, and that has proven to be a terrible way to work out what people 'want'. It's a great way to justify money decisions though, so it keeps happening (and games/products from big companies keep getting worse).
- raincole 2y agoI see. So you don't know what dogfooding is.
- malcolmgreaves 2y agoI like and agree with something you've touched on here. I think the downvotes are perhaps because you're not putting an end cap onto this idea here. And I think that end cap is: the feedback a company gets when it dogfoods its own product is *not* guaranteed to be similar to the feedback it gets from customers. The implicit assumption with dogfooding is that more feedback is better, even if that feedback is artificially constructed. I think the idea here is that foisting one's product onto one's own workers is likely to incur a bunch of additional biases and preferences in feedback. Paying customers presumably use the product because they need it. Dogfooding workers use the product because they are told to do so.
- pred_ 2y ago> Currently, Grok Web is not accessible in the United Kingdom or the countries of the European Union. We are diligently working to extend our services to these regions, prioritizing compliance with local data protection and privacy laws to ensure your information remains safely secure. I suppose you can take that to mean that people who do have access to the service should not expect much in terms of data protection.
- verisimi 2y agoThe EU and UK are good for data protection?
- cbg0 2y agoPretty good considering there are laws around data privacy and government institutions that enforce them. Are they perfect? Of course not, but it sure is better than no laws to protect my personal data.
- diggan 2y agoProbably SOTA in terms of data protection today in the world. Happy to be proven otherwise.
- danparsonson 2y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regu...
- sigmoid10 2y agoThere are just more regulations to comply with before a release. OpenAI's new Deep Research tool wasn't originally available in the EU either, but it was released less then a week after it came out in the US. Since the EU is a gigantic market with a lot of buying power and this release makes a strong case for people to switch over from competitors, I doubt it'll take long.
- diggan 2y ago
- harisec 2y agoAnybody can try Grok3 on Chatbot Arena (even if you are in Europe). Select Direct Chat and select the model early-grok-3. https://lmarena.ai/ https://lmarena.ai/
- ban-evader 2y agoThe story about how they made this happen in such a short period is impressive to say the least. Elon’s strength seems to be making things happen. Getting the largest computer cluster in the world up and running in a matter of months? Unbelievable.
- greenie_beans 2y ago[flagged]
- bamboozled 2y ago[flagged]
- ban-evader 2y agoI’m not sure if that’s the case. He’s obviously a smart man, but what’s truly unbelievable is that someone has so much resources that they can make something like this happen (what looks like) pretty casually.
- bamboozled 2y agoHe knows how to take money from people and then market things as if they’re his creations which then turns into him having more money because people think it’s a good investment to give him more money. It’s really quite a genius con he has going. It seems as if the sky is the limit too. Remember when he got caught having people play games for him so he had a top ranking ? He does that with basically everything.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 9283409232 2y agoElon's strength is a massive wallet.
- baobabKoodaa 2y ago
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- abrahamepton 2y ago[flagged]
- ckbishop 2y ago[flagged]
- designov 2y agoVery impressive work given the timeline
- angusturner 2y agoCredit to the engineers that built this, but it fills me with rage that Elon has this sort of unchecked power. How long before this starts getting deployed in safety critical applications or government decision making processes? With no oversight because Elon seems to have the power to dismiss the people responsible for investigating him. Anyone not scared by this concentration of power needs to pick up a book.
- niceice 2y ago[flagged]
- therouwboat 2y agoHe also runs tesla, twitter, xai, boring company, that brain thing company, government agency and has like 10 kids. I'm scared.
- amazingamazing 2y agoAre you actually? Why?
- niceice 2y agoRichard Dawkins: "I have a very favorable impression of Elon Musk and his concern for the welfare of the world. I have sat with [Elon] on a transatlantic plane and had a very, very long conversation with him. He's undoubtedly highly intelligent and knowledgeable. I've had lunch with him on two or three occasions, and so I know him a little bit. I have formed a very favorable impression of his intelligence, his knowledge and his concern for the welfare of the world." The Poetry of Reality, November 17, 2024
- lonelyasacloud 2y agoIntelligence is not a guarantee against getting drawn in by evil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_ideologues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_ideologues .
- MangoCoffee 2y ago[flagged]
- wyclif 2y agoThat's because here and on Reddit, there is a strong element of EDS (Elon Derangement Syndrome), which is characterized by not being able to discuss anything SpaceX, Tesla, X, The Boring Company, &c. do without completely politicizing it and completely avoiding talking about its technical or engineering merits.
- ramesh31 2y agoCan't stand Elon but happy to see this. We badly need a frontier model that is not so obsessed with "safety". That nonsense has held things back significantly, and leads to really stupid fake constraints.
- srid 2y agoFor some ouroborus fun, I attached this whole HN discussion and asked Grok 3 to summarize (with specific focus on the members attitude towards Elon Musk). Here's what it came up with: https://x.com/i/grok/share/CTDC0WOi7RCbEDrm11AJ3PtLM https://x.com/i/grok/share/CTDC0WOi7RCbEDrm11AJ3PtLM
- s1artibartfast 2y agoHow did you customize the output?
- srid 2y agoI have no idea why that page says "Grok’s output has been customized by this user"; I don't see anything related to custom prompts in my Grok settings page. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?
- zb3 2y agoI'm a freeloader and it appears that unfortunately Elon is not stupid enough to just give it to me for free.. There's no fair price either since I see no pay-per-use pricing, so.. unavailable for me for now.
- drusepth 2y agoWhat makes pay-per-use pricing inherently more or less fair than unlimited usage from a subscription?
- zb3 2y agoI don't use much, so for me this is not a good deal - I'd pay for "unlimited" usage, but make just a few requests daily.. So those who use less pay for those who use more, and I don't see it as a fair deal. BTW, Grok 3 will be available on x.ai in coming weeks.
- mrbonner 2y agoHave you thought of a future where LLM will be fined tune to target advertisment to you? I mean look at search: first iterations of search were pretty simple in term of ads. Then personalized ads came. I wouldn't help but envision the distopia where the LLM will insert personalized ads based on what you are asking for help.
- mherrmann 2y agoI do believe this is the next natural evolution. People don't like to pay for things and ads are a proven business model. I bet the big labs are looking into this
- dekervin 2y agoIt's way worse than that. First, We interact with LLMs through private conversation and we are used to have private conversation with human we trust. Some of that trust will be transfered to LLMs. Second, LLMs have a vastly bigger "mental" power to build a long term mental model of us, while we interact with them. Which mean they can chose with extreme precision their words to trigger an emotion, a certain reaction. Combine the two and the potential for manipulation, suggestion, preference altering is through the roof.
- AyyEye 2y agoThe next step is to combine it with heartrate/bloodpressure/eye tracking in phones and generate the text you're reading in realtime based on biofeedback. We'll be able to control people like robots. See where those $1MM+ salaries and billions of dollars are going, yet?
- qoez 2y agoMeta probably already does this on the top 10k people that spends most or is a high ranked influencer on instagram etc.
- UltraSane 2y agoI'm more worried about LLMs with specific political biases built into them. Imagine one that sounds like Conservapedia or the most insane left-wing parts of Tumblr
- 1970-01-01 2y agoIt blows my mind that Musk hasn't integrated Grok as an app inside their vehicles. A literal AI copilot is a completely novel and killer app that cannot be pulled off by any other vehicle manufacturer.
- rtkwe 2y agoGetting them to actually do something useful other than generating text is still a work in progress. What do you envision them actually doing in this integration?
- 1970-01-01 2y agoWhy does it need to work beyond text-based output?
- geor9e 2y agoBecause all you need to do is Bluetooth your iPhone to your 1995 Ford Ranger, and install Gemini to have a voice conversation with your cars speakers. But then your original comment doesn't make any sense about it being only possible with a Tesla.
- 1970-01-01 2y agoThe iPhone screen size is too small, and nobody takes their iPad with them on every trip.
- rtkwe 2y agoWhy do I need a big screen? The models mostly all have voice interfaces now. I shouldn't be sitting there reading and typing text input or output while driving anyways... What are you actually imagining doing with these models in the car? I still haven't heard what use they are.
- 2y ago
- geor9e 2y agoLaunched where? https://x.com/i/grok https://x.com/i/grok just loads Grok 2. I assume it's only accessible from iOS right now?
- waynenilsen 2y agogrok.com
- mirekrusin 2y agoLove low budget on marketing side, just few guys talking about essence - job done, tons of money saved if you ask me.
- gmerc 2y ago[flagged]
- tinyhouse 2y agoDeepSeek wouldn't be able to train R1 without their ~600B parameters base model, so you should consider the cost of that model when you compare with Grok. In any case, Elon won't win this race cause the best talent will not work for him. He used to have good reputation and a lot of money, which is a deadly combination. Now he only has the latter -- not enough when leading AI people can make 7 figures in other companies. To be clear 1: I'm not saying that people who currently work on Grok are not great. It's not about hiring some great people. It's about competing in the long run - people with other options (e.g. offers from leading AI labs) are more likely to accept those offers than joining his research lab. To be clear 2: I'm not talking about Elon's reputation due to his politics. I'm only talking about his reputation as an employer. He has the vision and marketing skills but it's not going to be enough for leading the AI race.
- gmerc 2y agoIt’s not like Grok3 didn’t have precious work to build on either, but point taken. I think the situations are a bit comparable given timelines however. A perfect analogy for AI … your ability to replace talent with money. And if you don’t have the talent, it’s gonna cost you 100x more.
- tastyfreeze 2y ago> your ability to replace talent with money That sure seems to be the message given in Apple AI commercials. From those commercials the tag line for AI should be "enabling idiots everywhere".
- andy12_ 2y agoActually, the 5 million figure is for the compute cost for the base 600B parameter model. Training R1 was just 8000 steps of reinforcement learning, so I expect that the vast, vast majority of the training cost is already included in the pretraining stage.
- xnx 2y agoA very impressive debut. No doubt they benefited from all the research and discoveries that have preceded it. Maybe the best outcome of a competitive Grok is breaking the mindshare stranglehold that ChatGPT has on the public at large and with HN. There are many good frontier models that are all very close in capabilities.
- nmca 2y agoThis is grok 3, so not a debut
- cj 2y agoMaybe this is Grok’s “ChatGPT moment”. Similar to how OpenAI’s debut was with GPT-3.5 (not their first version) Debut in the sense that it’s something good enough that it’s getting mainstream attention.
- bangaladore 2y agoIt is a debut of their thinking mode iirc. Unfortunately LLMs are shifting compute time to test time instead of train time. I don't really like this and frankly it shows a stalling of the architectures, data sets, etc...
- minihat 2y agoAnother take is that the base models are now good enough that spending more money for more intelligence is viable at test time. A threshold has been crossed.
- bangaladore 2y agoI guess I'd always thought the direct opposite. Naively, I feel to be useful, the goal of LLMs should be to more power efficient. So that eventually all devices can be smarter. Power efficiency can be gained through less time-time, or more "intelligence" or some combination of the two. I'm not convinced these SOTA models are doing much more than increasing test-time.
- kernal 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoOk, but please don't respond by posting the same sort of thing as well. That only makes it worse.
- arj 2y agoStill no post on their official blog. How disappointing.
- ccorcos 2y agoThe politics in the comments here are really toxic. What’s happening to HN? This is the largest computer cluster the world has ever seen. Can someone please post interesting comments about things I can learn?
- 9283409232 2y ago[flagged]
- sixQuarks 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoPlease don't cross into personal attack.
- blain 2y agoI'm going to risk it and say you can ignore it, you just have to want and if you need to went go to reddit. In Poland we have a new affair every month and I don't care. Your country will be fine. I would also love to see more technical stuff discussed here.
- breakitmakeit 2y ago[dead]
- zulban 2y agoIndeed. Nearly every news outlet I follow is slamming Elon. I come here for tech.
- dang 2y agoIt's a reflection of the wider society and (as others have pointed out) the media environment. HN can't be immune from macro trends. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=macro%20trends%20immune%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... We've been here before. It will likely subside, as past swings and fluctuations have. It always takes longer than it feels like it should, but in retrospect turns out to be shorter than it felt like it did.
- 9283409232 2y agoI wonder if people will attempt at jailbreaking this model to see if they can find evidence of federal data being used to train it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- pkkkzip 2y agoAm I the only one who isn't impressed by this? Grok3 is failing basic OCR, react/sql coding excercises that Sonnet and Gemini completes successfully. I'm also skeptical of lmarena as there is a large number of Elon Musk zealots trying to pass off Grok as a proxy for Tesla shares.
- misiti3780 2y agoexamples? i have been using it all morning and just canceled my claud subscription
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- podobo 2y agoSay what you will about the guy, he kept the training running on time.
- sgerenser 2y agoOK that's actually a pretty good one. If you didn't steal that from an X comment, I give you props.
- mint2 2y agoSo he took credit for improvements others worked on and they also weren’t as good as purported? (Assuming that is a reference to the Mussolini quote.)
- UltraSane 2y agoWhy can so many people not see it?!
- onepremise 2y ago[flagged]
- archagon 2y agoPeople who buy into Grok are willingly submitting themselves to the far-right propaganda machine. I’m sure it’s nice and tidied up for release, but there is zero chance that Musk will not use this tool to push his ideological agenda given its reach and impact.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- braincat31415 2y agoWas Hitler mentioned yet?
- andrewinardeer 2y agoSo the Rust code it generates for me has a right-of-centre bias?
- verisimi 2y agoYour code will list and go round in wide circles.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- falleng0d 2y agoWell, if you see any kind of propaganda, you can denounce and I’m sure this community will respond just like we responded to china propaganda and censorship on DeepSeek. No good will come from of denying progress just because you don’t like someone else is opinions and worldviews.
- bpodgursky 2y agoThe $400m cybertruck purchase was planned months ago under Biden. There are many criticisms founded in genuine conflict of. interest, it helps everyone to stick to those.
- adamhartenz 2y agoThey should have asked Grok3 how to create a good announcement stream before going live. That was a mess
- onepremise 2y ago[flagged]
- archagon 2y agoI imagine it's been manually vouched by the mods.
- I_am_tiberius 2y agoDoes it already include the datasets Musk received from the government or do I have to wait for Grok4?
- keepamovin 2y agoThe most fascinating part of the video for me was how they built the hardware to do this: https://youtu.be/AUAJ82H12qs?si=sHz3ddZnz2-HU3UL&t=2192 https://youtu.be/AUAJ82H12qs?si=sHz3ddZnz2-HU3UL&t=2192