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US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles
- chasd00 3y agoIf true, what would be even more remarkable than alien spacecraft is the secret actually being kept. I have zero confidence the US government, let alone in conjunction with other governments, would be able to keep a secret like this.
- t0bia_s 3y agoEvery month or two there some kind of UFO story in US media. Is this some kind of propaganda to convince people that government needs more money to find out what is going on? Or maybe to keep people safe from UFO?
- NickC25 3y agoWon't happen. Why? The most obvious questions will be asked, and those questions will hurt the financial interests of the powers-that-be. Questions like "how did they get here?" and "what is the energy source that powers these crafts?" Politicians with stock portfolios chock full of Oil&Gas stocks will certainly not want that info seeing the light of day. Same with those who hold defense stocks - all those trillions spent and they can't shoot down a small craft? That's nothing to say of the major religious organizations that will inevitably whine and cry that their gravy train is also now also permanently derailed. No more tithing or mandatory donations to a god when there are now species from another planet coming and going as they please, and are likely thousands of years ahead of us.
- HWR_14 3y agoYour understanding of incentives is backwards. Politician's stock portfolios aren't fixed in stone. They can sell their Oil & Gas and then short it, or more importantly invest in whatever single company they would steer the commercialization of a new power source to. Defense stocks go up, not down, when people discover there is a new threat we need to arm ourselves against with newer weapons because the old ones were inadequate. And major religious organizations wouldn't suffer at all if aliens exist - I know of no major religion that denies the existence of alien life. Meanwhile, during turmoil, more people turn to religion.
- dumpsterdiver 3y ago> No more tithing or mandatory donations to a god when there are now species from another planet coming and going as they please, and are likely thousands of years ahead of us. While certainly there would be tension caused by the canonical issues, I don't think people will stop making pleas to what they perceive as higher powers. I would expect that such a shocking revelation would cause more people to flock to the church because they suddenly realize how small and powerless they are.
- NickC25 3y agoYes, but the whole thing about "(insert deity of your choice here) made man in his own image" that seems to be quite prevalent throughout most major religions gets debunked almost immediately if there's some bipedal creature that predates our entire civilization showing up in a hyper-advanced spacecraft. There are no higher powers if someone rolls up being able to do what our current understanding of physics calls magic or has no way to explain it.
- Firmwarrior 3y ago"Surely THIS piece of logic will be the one which topples the concept of Religion"
- notaustinpowers 3y agoAs someone raised southern baptist but no longer religious, they'll just change the meaning behind the phrase. "He made us in his own image in the sense of our spirit" "He is imperceivable and therefore He may take many forms" (I.E. when God was a flaming bush) Or my fave, "He works in mysterious ways". The church will adapt as it always has for millennias.
- dumpsterdiver 3y agoAgreed. The various scriptures would simply be reinterpreted to align with our current understanding. Even if some scripture explicitly stated that aliens do not exist, the existence of aliens would not disprove, or even diminish the possibility of the existence of God. From the perspective of practitioners it would simply mean that whoever wrote that scripture misunderstood what was told to them. In other words, man is fallible, and easily forgiven for misinterpreting the word of God. I honestly believe that the arrival of aliens wouldn't even prove to be a minor speed bump for organized religion.
- bostonsre 3y agoSuccessful conspiracies seem hard to keep a cap on when they get too big. If this is the first leak of something true related to actual materials, it could spur the few non-evil congressman to dig further and cause further leaks. If this is a true conspiracy and they had complete control, all of this UAP stuff wouldn't have popped up in the media and in congress in the past few years.
- lithos 3y agoNah it would spur the evil ones more. Knowing what companies got tech access first would be worth billions when insider trading.
- gumballindie 3y agoDont get my hopes high. I have the feeling it will be a disappointment. Also why would aliens only visit the us? Surely other countries would be in possession of alien tech if the us was.
- HWR_14 3y agoI don't believe that there are any alien vessels, intact or otherwise. But I would imagine that a superpower with global reach and a stealth program could (and would) gather craft before the countries where they were located knew they were there.
- gumballindie 3y ago> I don't believe that there are any alien vessels, intact or otherwise. Me neither, but as the saying goes: “i want to believe”. Guaranteed there’s nothing more than a guy that’s either crazy or marketing a book. > But I would imagine that a superpower with global reach and a stealth program could (and would) gather craft before the countries where they were located knew they were there. By traveling to china or russia and snatching ufos from right under their nose? I doubt it. I think if anything remotely alien would visit earth everyone would know.
- markus_zhang 3y agoMaybe Afghanistan? OK this is sci fi materials...
- mywittyname 3y agoRight, America has trouble retrieving it's own equipment when it is downed near (not in) adversarial territory. That's with the advantage of knowing exactly when and where the equipment went down and with the benefit of advanced planning for a potential recovery. There's no way they are suddenly so much more competent when the downed equipment is "alien." If this stuff is so easily tracked, then it's not so easily hidden from the public. And if this stuff went down in a smaller country, you can bet there are plenty of people out there ready and willing to pay for it just because. We have difficulty enough charging wealthy people with real crimes, much less putting them away for buying alien technology.
- thedangler 3y agoThe fact of the matter is the implications if this is real. Which it probably is to a point. Free energy devices and instant travel would decimate the economy that keeps the elite in power. “We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity.” ― Ben Rich CEO Lockheed Skunk Works
- devwastaken 3y agoFree energy is not real, you've been watching too much conspiracy material designed by said elites.
- dekhn 3y agowell, gibbs free energy is real
- devwastaken 3y agoGibbs free energy is an equation for maximum work, not free energy as in magic that violates thermodynamics.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- zamadatix 3y agoWhy would it decimate the economy and oust those in power when every other new advancement seems to grow the economy and concentrate wealth on those already able to invest in it?
- d1str0 3y agoExactly. You don’t think the US or whatever nation state would absolutely use these technologies to try and conquer the rest of the world or acquire power/money?
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- tmn 3y agoI find this subject fascinating. As the article states, Navy pilots are on record as eye witnesses for this stuff, along with the various radar feeds, etc. I'm curious what HN thinks of the following: There are 3 comprehensive possibilities (correct me if you think differently): 1. These crafts are ET origin 2. These crafts are human origin (secrete military tech or similar) 3. This is a psyop Due to the supposed feeds and eye witness accounts, it seems infeasible there is a 'weather balloon' type explanation Any of these 3 possibilities is very interesting. I have my own take for what is most likely. But I'd like to hear thoughts of others.
- yellow_lead 3y agoWhat about 4. A collection of shadows, mistakes, pilot fatigue, and instrument malfunction?
- v0idzer0 3y agoToo coincidental for pilot fatigue/shadows AND instrument malfunction to always happen at the same time in all of these cases. There are hundreds of reported instances in the past few years. This is simply not a serious explanation.
- SonicScrub 3y agoStrongly disagree. The sheer number of flight hours performed by all the world's professional pilots multiplied by the average percentage of a flight that a pilot could be considered to be "fatigued", multiplied by the odds of a cosmetic/minor sensor blip occuring is still an astronomically large number. That confluence of events probably happens quite regularity. This can be acendotealy verified hanging out at any general aviation flight club, and asking pilots about the times they got temporarily confused by some aerial phenomenon that turned out to be a strange reflection off a cloud. Happens literally all the time.
- stevenhuang 3y agoI would encourage you to actually look into the sort of anomalous cases we're talking about here. https://www.narcap.org/blog/narcaptr20 https://www.narcap.org/blog/narcaptr20
- devwastaken 3y agoThe X planes project was intentionally obscured by the idea of "aliens" to hide the unhideable. It's no different here.
- DoreenMichele 3y agoI'm trying to think of any sci-fi stories where the aliens are lost tourists or similar. They are usually presumed to be scientists or government representatives checking out Earth and/or humankind. Maybe ET? -- I don't think that's explained? It's been a lot of years since I saw it. The reality is that the government is interested in unexplained phenomenon primarily for security reasons. That statement does not say nor imply "Belief in aliens means you're a nutter!" I just get really tired of people acting like "They study this stuff because they know there really are aliens visiting Earth!"
- shrimp_emoji 3y agoLike Twoflower from the other side of the Discworld, an "in sewer ants" agent on vacation, visiting a medieval society. Zogg from Betelgeuse? Invader Zim?
- DoreenMichele 3y agoI'm not familiar with those. Thanks.
- ancientworldnow 3y agoRoadside Picnic, the inspiration behind Stalker, has aliens using Earth much like a family on a long drive might pull over for a scenic picnic site.
- asimovfan 3y agoThey actually just shoot stuff in the direction of the earth inadvertently if i recall correctly, they dont actually visit
- generalizations 3y agoThat sounds like Transition, by Ian Banks.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoPredator? Hunting tourism is a thing.
- huijzer 3y agoWhat about the US military pretending to see UFO’s instead of admitting they have their own stealth airplanes and drones? This suggestion was made at the recent Required podcast about Lockheed Martin.
- thoughtstheseus 3y agoThe sensor apparatus needed to “find” these UFOs is the same as the one needed for missile and drone defense.
- geraldwhen 3y agoIt’s exactly this. It’s not just aircraft, either, but aircraft designed to disrupt other aircraft’s instrumentation. There is a white hat team somewhere in the DoD whose only job is to develop technology and software to make other aviation software instrumentation fail or perform incorrectly. It would be absurd if this were NOT the case.
- DrBazza 3y agoNever in human history have we had so many high quality cameras in the hands of so many people. And still no pictures of ufos. Or Bigfoot. Or Nessie.
- BasedAnon 3y agoActually we do have good pictures of Nessie, which is how figured out 'she' was actually just a whale penis Edit: apparently this is actually bs
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y agoSerious question: are there any whale species which inhabit Loch Ness?
- simmerup 3y agoApart from the ones released by the US military
- uhtred 3y agothere are some pretty convincing videos and photos of UFOs out there, the problem is when they are good enough to look real people call them fakes.
- pengaru 3y agoOr when they're good enough to actually try identify objects, they're birthday balloons like the mylar batman one with its very distinctive profile.
- postalrat 3y agoAnything that doesn't have an explanation is labeled a fake unless it's from an official source like the military.
- tzs 3y agoSeveral times now I've seen birds that I didn't recognize or planes that didn't look like the normal airliners or small private planes that are common here and taken photos, only to find that the photo is a pretty much unrecognizable blob.
- thekevan 3y agoAm I missing something or is the only thing that makes this different than so many other "insider" claims is that this guy has a career history that implies he isn't just another crackpot spewing theories? It reads just like so many claims like we have heard in the past, but this time people think the guy is more reliable. It is pretty funny that the one of the people often quoted who backs up Grusch's claims is Jonathan Grey. (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2241801/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2241801/) I'd love to think that alien contact is possible, but as I attempt to learn more and more about physics, travel approaching the speed of light, the mechanics that transformed us from a basic life form to a life form with a consciousness, it just seem incredibly unlikely sadly.
- hderms 3y agoI personally believe FTL is likely impossible so I think the only realistic hypothesis is if we encounter aliens, that they're von Neumann drones on the vanguard edge of a colonization wave from an alien race that's been doing it for millions of years. If we survive for long enough as a species, either we'll meet races in this manner or we'll be the ones doing it. For the record I still only assign a fairly low probability that this is what is happening, it's more likely that UAPs are craft from terrestrial origin.
- erdos4d 3y agoThere is the fact that Grusch gave sworn testimony to congress on it, he's going to prison for perjury if he's lying. Doesn't prove it, but it's more than just saying it in an interview.
- krapp 3y agoPeople lie to Congress all the time without any consequences. That depends more on the political necessity of having a scapegoat/figure to tar and feather than the actual law.
- mostlysimilar 3y ago> People lie to Congress all the time without any consequences. Examples?
- seanw444 3y agoDarn. Guess I need to be distracted from Biden's corruption now. Darn you, diversion tactics!
- kgwxd 3y agoSounds like you were already distracted by someone else's diversion.
- tiffanyh 3y agoIf true, I'm curious to know how the government even came into possession of such non-human aircraft. E.g. - did they shoot it down? (this seems to contradict the claims that the aircraft can perform unrealistic maneuvers like massive acceleration / extreme changes in vector) - did some random farmer stumble upon the craft? (then why didn't the farmer post photos of it online and/or speaking out about it) - where was it found and where is it today? Note: I'm not saying there isn't ET. But some first principle questions seems like they need to be answered before people jump to conclusions.
- generalizations 3y agoOr it crashed of its own accord, but instead of a farmer finding it, they'd been tracking it carefully and got there first.
- 100pctremote 3y agoLike an enemy weather balloon
- 0xbadcafebee 3y agoAliens are notoriously bad drivers. Have you seen those videos where they just hover in the sky and then zoom off? Homeboy's gonna catch an intergalactic DUI.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- madspindel 3y agoCan we rule out UT? Ultraterrestrial, meaning "they" are from this Planet Earth, but maybe left due to an event (the flood?) many millions years ago, or maybe just 12 000 years ago (the younger dryas impact?).
- tiffanyh 3y agoMy thoughts exactly, which is why I asked the question of "how did the government come into possession of this aircraft". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36218316 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36218316
- LargoLasskhyfv 3y agoIn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangar_18_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangar_18_(film) !
- elric 3y agoSounds like a social experiment to see how fast rumours spread or something. Next up: hysteria. Give it a week and the papers will say that there are big bad aliens in Moscow or some such.
- jacknews 3y agoSounds like Grusch is upstanding, but I suspect he's been trolled by the rest of them. You can just imagine; "hey Eagle, the UFO guy's coming to ask about that UAP report, you know, the one where the IR tracker locked-on to a speck of dust. Let's mention the (nudge, hehe) black-ops alien testing site we saw when we went to file the report"
- gfodor 3y agoYou don't troll someone to the point of letting them go testify under oath to the IG.
- paulddraper 3y agoEpic troll
- throwaway892238 3y agoYou do if you work for a different 3-letter organization
- mustacheemperor 3y agoIt also seems like you’d need to troll someone extraordinarily thoroughly for them to have enough material to testify to congress for hours. Even assuming ET is the least likely explanation, it’s at least very curious what else could have resulted in the testimony described in the article.
- nameless912 3y agoWhile I think I believe this whistleblower, the CIA is _definitely_ willing to troll someone to the point of letting them go testify under oath to the IG. I'm pretty sure they _have_. Not to mention all the LSD they dosed people with.
- lisasays 3y agoAs the other commenter mentioned - these people troll each other all the time. It's practically the job description for a large portion of them, in fact. And it doesn't even have to be anybody is trolling him directly. The trolling could be happening several layers deep. And can be entirely unintentional -- just a matter of a few genuinely naive or deluded people somewhere.
- vlod 3y agoHere's an interesting video clip of Lex interviewing Pilot Ryan Grave [0], ~10 months ago (~27 mins. Note: not full interview). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT6av8ZFCks&t=184s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT6av8ZFCks&t=184s
- beefman 3y agoAliens have never crashed here. Aliens have never even visited our solar system. The truth is more interesting: the galaxy is emptier than it should be.
- FredPret 3y agoI read somewhere that all of our radio signature would fade away to the point that it's indistinguishable from background noise within five lightyears. Plus, we've been around for ages and only briefly let out a bunch of radio waves. I image we might not even generate that many anymore. By that logic, you could easily image that the universe is teeming with intelligent life that happens to not have sent a powerful radio signal out here, or whose tech development timeline never included wide public radio signal broadcasting.
- baja_blast 3y agoYep radio waves degradation is due to the inverse square law. The strength of the signal is determined by the inverse of the distance squared. So the drop off is pretty extreme.
- mclightning 3y agoI used to be greatly tempted by the fermi paradox, but upon learning about limitations we have observing the skies.... I believe the entire fermi paradox talk, is just steeming from the fact that we think too highly of ourselves as a civilisation and the efford we put into observing the skies. Most people, including myself until recently, don't realise that most of our astrophysics/space science is very limited to our immediate close promixity in the cosmological scale. Correct me if I am wrong but we are only able to do science around the other stars in the Milky way (e.g. exoplanet observations) Beyond Milky way, all the light from the stars are collapsed into a single blob along with the rests of the stars in their home galaxy.
- baja_blast 3y ago> Correct me if I am wrong but we are only able to do science around the other stars in the Milky way (e.g. exoplanet observations) Oh yeah and on top of that the way we detect planets around stars creates a extreme bias on dwarf stars since a positive detection needs a few transits before confirmation of a planet can be made. And since dwarf planets transit within days/weeks sun like stars take around a year so it would take 3 years of observation to find an Earth around a sun-like star. But I have heard science communicators imply that what we have detected so far is representative of what is out there which is absurd. If FTL is impossible(which I doubt since it's only "impossible" in some capacity in Special Relativity. But Special Relativity does not describe our universe, General Relativity does and even that has limits),then not seeing Aliens is not a paradox at all considering radio waves only go out a few light years, and the distances are just too great. And if there are any Alien probes in our solar system sitting on IO or some moon we'd have no idea since we have only done flybys and never truly scanned the surfaces.
- boringuser2 3y agoWould anybody with even an ounce of critical thinking faculty believe this even if they explicitly came out and said "yep, we've got aliums, folks"? There's literally no level of evidence I would accept because the premise is contrary to numerous, basic logical inferences.
- notJim 3y agoAlliums are delicious and their flowers are quite nice as well.
- bsaul 3y agoWhat would those logical inferences be ? I’m not sure i got your point right
- boringuser2 3y agoI'm willing to put aside literally every mechanical interpretation of probability here, ignoring really poignant questions, in favor of one overarching question: Do you really, really think a species capable of interstellar travel would have vehicles or crafts that we could recognize as such? That feels more like a technology 100-200 years ahead of us, akin to science fiction, than the reality of a species hundreds of thousands or MILLIONS of years ahead of us technologically, whose existences would simply be fucking incomprehensible to the human eye or mind. The conception that such entities are travelling the galaxy in dinky little craft is completely absurd. They could probably scan our fucking souls and create replicas of our qualia with technology from the interstellar equivalent of a Walgreens. Or, more likely, they simply have technologies that we can in no capacity conceive of or understand at all.
- bartislartfast 3y ago> That feels more like a technology 100-200 years ahead of us, akin to science fiction So my theory is in about 150 years, DJI will release a drone with a time-travel capability, and the UFOs we see now are people in 2170 trolling us.
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- orbital-decay 3y agoAliens just seem to love the USA, don't they? Just like giant prehistoric sea monsters seem to love Japan. It's totally not a cover-up for another black project.
- Madhouse61 3y agoOff topic but somewhat related... As of late, I've really enjoyed watching FPV racing drone footage on YouTube. And it's made wonder - if commercial drones currently on the market are capable of this: https://youtube.com/shorts/mMmBC2nwcjY?feature=share3 https://youtube.com/shorts/mMmBC2nwcjY?feature=share3 What do you get when you have a multi-billion dollar defense budget and some of the best engineers on the planet?
- zakki 3y agoAn UFO?
- incrudible 3y ago> What do you get when you have a multi-billion dollar defense budget and some of the best engineers on the planet? A huge waste.
- mostlysimilar 3y agoI don't think 80 years of global peace and safe international trade have been a huge waste.
- WalterBright 3y agohttps://qz.com/911990/the-cottingley-fairy-hoax-of-1917-is-a-case-study-in-how-smart-people-lose-control-of-the-truth https://qz.com/911990/the-cottingley-fairy-hoax-of-1917-is-a... 'nuff said
- stevenhuang 3y agoBeen a big fan of your work but I think your take is wrong on this one, Walter. Saving this for later to say I told you so :).
- WalterBright 3y agoI've been hearing "this time it's for real" my whole life. They never pan out.
- stevenhuang 3y agoThere's a breaking news blast on at the moment with the uap whistleblower. Thoughts on the following? If anything, whatever that's happening this time really does feel different. https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/144a9xz/abcnews_house_oversight_plans_ufo_hearing_after/jne9vm6/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/144a9xz/abcnews_house... https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/143tj5x/us_has_12_or_more_alien_spacecraft_say_military/jnbv7gn/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/143tj5x/us_has_12_or_... https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/143zpak/interview_with_a_family_member_who_witnessed_the/jnd48bg/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/143zpak/interview_w... https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/143v66e/las_vegas_family_claims_to_see_aliens_after/jncv2d8 https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/143v66e/las_vegas_fam... https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/143xcjp/excerpts_from_david_gruschs_interview_with_the/jncicge/ https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/143xcjp/excerpts_from...
- strangattractor 3y agoIt's the perfect grift. If the DoD denies having evidence then they are hiding something. If they show you the evidence they possess then they are hiding stuff anyway. The grifter gets payback/attention in either case because it is all indisputable and unprovable. Legally you are untouchable because the proof for or against is unobtainable. The X-Files poster says it all "I want to believe."
- bragr 3y agoTangential, but there's some great analysis and debunks of the video the headline photo is taken from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs Simulation: https://www.metabunk.org/gimbal/ https://www.metabunk.org/gimbal/
- zdyn5 3y agoIf the rotation of the craft is simply due to a rotation of the camera, why do the clouds not also rotate? I’ve only skimmed the video but he doesn’t seems to account for this relative rotation between the craft and clouds…
- heavyset_go 3y agoMick West has consistently put out the best videos examining the UAP phenomenon.
- zoogeny 3y agoI saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believe". These individuals would take vague evidence and through their own nature would exaggerate and fill in the blanks. They then nudged those individuals with carefully curated credible fake evidence. Then they just sat back and waited for a few of those guys to "leak" the information.
- newZWhoDis 3y agoIf this is a psyop that’s still huge news. These are fantastic claims from a highly ranked and decorated member of the IC, released with official backing/DoD preAuth Someone has some explaining to do
- op00to 3y agoWhat official backing?
- hugh-avherald 3y agoHe applied for permission to disclose this to journalists and that application was approved by the Pentagon.
- KETpXDDzR 3y agoSounds like the plot of the x-files.
- fnordsensei 3y agoTo what end?
- hervature 3y agoWhy would the organization that would be expected to protect our skies want to make people believe there is something to protect our skies?
- 1970-01-01 3y agoForensic evidence? No. 1080p 30fps video? No. High resolution photos? No. Any evidence to back up the extraordinary claims? No. Sorry, but you are crazy if you believe this.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tikwidd 3y agoWe now know that exoplanets and the conditions for life abound in the universe. Where the conditions for life abound, the null hypothesis ought to be that life abounds. In discussions of alien life and intelligence, we are often biased by earlier states of knowledge about the universe and our position in it. When we first started digging up dinosaur bones, we came up with fantastical notions of creatures to explain these artifacts that were mysterious to us. Notions that fit into our existing worldview, drawn from folk knowledge and cultural history. Once archeologists started studying the bones carefully, they gave us stories more fantastical than we could have ever imagined in the framework of our folk knowledge. I suspect the same will turn out to be true of UAPs. For example, UAP stories are often ridiculed on the premise that intelligent alien life would not bother to come all this way just to hide out in the ocean. That's our folk knowledge of aliens: they like to travel, are eager to make contact with other life forms and are capable of doing so. But the elusive behaviour of UAPs is exactly what we would expect from an "unmanned" scientific probe. The home planet would be dozens or hundreds of light years away, so the craft would need to be completely autonomous in the absence of any communication system. Where does an autonomous probe go to look for signs of life? Oceans.
- tedivm 3y agoKnowing that life may be common is a lot different than knowing that intelligence is.
- jay_kyburz 3y agoYes, but the universe is so mind mindbogglingly vast. So many galaxies and so many stars! It just doesn't seem right that what happened here didn't happen somewhere else.
- nonethewiser 3y agoWith vastness comes separation. The more vast it is the more likely there is life elsewhere, and the less likely its in travel rangeor would be able to identify life on earth.
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- ivoras 3y agoOr is this another instance of "UFOs appear when we are close to a nuclear crysis"?
- andrewstuart 3y agoScience fiction, literally.
- fintechie 3y agoGlobal IQ getting lower at an alarming pace.
- nessbot 3y agoSince IQ is designed to be a normal distribution, isn't the average IQ the same (100) year after year?
- fintechie 3y agoWe've probably peaked in the western side of the world... https://phys.org/news/2023-03-online-iq-scores-century.html https://phys.org/news/2023-03-online-iq-scores-century.html
- lost_tourist 3y agoyeah this is the first time some people said that there are aliens visiting the planet
- mberning 3y agoThe MIC wants to juice defense spending again.
- atleastoptimal 3y agoWow, another UFO story about how one guy said something but he was reaaaaallly believable right? Lmao.
- vic-traill 3y agoI can say I'm not sure what to think about this; I don't understand possible motivations nor psyop sufficiently to comment on the veracity/lack thereof. Anecdotally, I'll note that this has sent folks I am acquainted with who believe that the Replicants walk among us (or variations thereof), right off the deep end. This validates what they've been asserting, and which people have pooh-pooh'd, all along. Man, the fox is loose in the mental health henhouse. And please know that I don't judge or claim to understand that place. It just all seems so irresponsible.
- dogma1138 3y agoThe ultimate reason why I don’t believe in this despite the attention this seem to be getting from congress and the more reliable than one can expect witnesses at least if we take them on face values this time around is that Trump hasn’t tweeted a selfie with ET during his presidency…
- kumi111 3y agoIs it my impression or looking at all those irrelevant jobs, like people trying their best to... : * Censoring Internet: claiming that, watching porn has something to do with real world threats. * Protecting Skies: 90% of the time is waste of money, but well there is new threat the "aliens" yay... our job is not over xD And honestly it's not that different from business made by climate change, AI threats, pandemic and so on (that I can summarize as "fear"), only that there is need more money... or the job is at risk... P.S: I'm not thinking some of them are not real threats, just that they are abused.
- 0xbadcafebee 3y agoI'm not saying it's not aliens.... ....but it's not aliens.
- lamontcg 3y agoThe paradox about this is that even though our sensor technology keeps getting vastly better we still only have evidence at the extreme edge of it. Never any really conclusive proof -- spaceship lands and aliens get out and get caught on video. And then there's this guy who just knows about a secret government program, but hasn't seen any of it. It sort of reminds me of the "God of the Gaps" fallacy.
- rustymonday 3y agoNot really a paradox. The public only has minimal evidence. While the US government has mountains of data and recordings.
- newZWhoDis 3y agoI hope someone keeps an archive of these comments. HN is in for quite the gut punch. All of this is happening because of the 2023 NDAA provisions where congress invalidated all NDAs blocking disclosure (to congress, not the public). Not saying this guy is 100% legit, but hang on…
- renewiltord 3y agoThe truth of the matter is that some dude in the military once told a journalist something like "it's hard to control an LLM: if you tell it to kill people, and then an operator tries to override that, it might kill the operator or go for the comms tower" and the journalist reported it as "Air Force drone kills operator if told to stop; destroys comms tower". Given that, we know there's a lot of people who will claim extraordinary things. So, chances are that some sucker (of which the military will have a whole bunch on account of being so large) completely misinterpreted something completely inane and decided that aliens are here.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- baseline-shift 3y agoWhat I find compelling about this new evidence is that what they see flying is a small sphere doing impossible things. Can a sphere fly and hold its geolocation position perfectly in a hurricane as these reports cite? How would you explain it as any earthly tech? And if not US, what nation hass more advanced tech than the US? And isn't as likely that alien civilizations would send a probe, rather than arrive with their organic selves in a big spaceship needing food etc? Like us with our Mars rover, etc, wouldn't they send a small remote controlled probe to check out alien worlds?
- allenrb 3y agoI would very much like to believe, but… no doubt we’ve all heard the crackpot theories that we (speaking as a US citizen) faked the moon landings. That’s nonsense for all sorts of reasons, but one of my favorites is this: It would literally be easier to build giant machines using 1960s technology to land people on the moon and return them safely than it would be to keep a secret like “fake moon landings”. Now imagine the secret being “alien intelligence/time travelers/angelic beings are visiting earth on the regular”. No matter how good some of us are at keeping secrets, this one would have gotten out long ago. That said, I’d still love to be demonstrated wrong.
- twobitshifter 3y agoIf these are a recent phenomenon and not the flying saucers of the past, the secret may have not been kept long.
- no_wizard 3y agoAlright HN, we all know that this is likely untrue, from a rational angle, and this thread is full of reasons why, but play this mental exercise with me for a minute: What if its true? What repercussions would having alien technology have on civilization? Would this fundamentally change beliefs? Influence religion? EDIT: someone pointed out to make this more stimulating we need constrains, assuming the following is true: The UFO is likely "rogue" in that it was off course, pilot dead, and we are not currently engaged in hostilities with this other civilization
- nopal 3y agoGeopolitical Implications of a Successful SETI Program https://arxiv.org/abs/2209.15125 https://arxiv.org/abs/2209.15125
- curiousllama 3y agoThere’s literally billions of words written about this - they’re called sci-fi novels. For this to be an interesting question, you need to specify what exactly is true - then we can game implications. Are we positing that aliens exist? That FTL/time travel is possible? That aliens are attacking, like right now?
- goodells 3y agoSome unsolicited recommendations for sci-fi novels that cover this topic well: - "The Mote in God's Eye" by Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven (1974) - "A Fire Upon The Deep" by Vernor Vinge (1992)
- nonethewiser 3y agoIt would unify earth in previously impossible ways.
- elboru 3y agoIf you are curious about how Christianity in particular would need to react you could read CS Lewis’ essay “Religion and Rocketry”. We Christians would need to answer these questions: 1. Are there animals anywhere else besides earth? 2. If yes, do any of these animals have what we call ‘rational souls’? That is, are they spiritual beings? 3. If there are such spiritual beings, are any or all of them, like us, fallen? 4. If any of them have fallen, have they been denied Redemption by the Incarnation and Passion of Christ? Christ could have come to those worlds also. 5. Finally, if all of the first four questions could be answered yes, is it certain that this is the only possible mode of Redemption? https://www.cslewis.com/religion-and-rocketry/ https://www.cslewis.com/religion-and-rocketry/
- Octokiddie 3y agoZero specific claims. Zero evidence examined by the person making the allegations. All hearsay. To top it off, the focus of the story, David Charles Grusch, is a "a former intelligence official." Pardom me for disregarding this as the diversion it appears to be. The US military has quite a track record on this kind of thing. It's not hard to think of reasons why such diversions might be deployed right now, either. Maybe some kind of physical evidence - any physical evidence - will be presented. If so, I'm happy to change my mind. Until then, there's zero compelling reason to believe any of it and every reason to think Grusch either a liar or a stooge.
- nonethewiser 3y agoExtraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
- MacsHeadroom 3y ago> To top it off, the focus of the story, David Charles Grusch, is a "a former intelligence official." "From 2019-2021, he was the representative of the reconnaissance office to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force. From late 2021 to July 2022, he was the co-lead for UAP analysis at the NGA and its representative to the task force." > Zero specific claims. The specific claim is that he has provided to congress documentation on successful non-human craft retrieval programs hidden from congress, under oath. He makes no claims about the projects other than that he was not a part of them and that he was provided said documentation on them. The U.S. Inspector General called the claims "credible and urgent" and congress is planning a session on them.
- m3kw9 3y agoMore talk of aliens, it’s either that or 10 pixel blurry photos of one. Coincidence?
- 29athrowaway 3y agoIs not the only ex air force person with wacky claims. Extraordinary claims needs extraordinary evidence.
- curiousllama 3y agoMy favorite theory is that the government periodically leaks this stuff so that junior military members are less scared to report weird stuff they see (stuff that could be new enemy tech) “Sergeant, I’m telling you, I saw floating meta orbs - it’s aliens! The pentagon said they exist!”
- lolinder 3y agoAs I recall this was explicitly spelled out as the reason when the Pentagon first started being more open about their UAP programs. I can't find the source now because "UAP" is ungoogleable now under all the sensationalized sources. EDIT—found it with "site:*.mil": > The Department of Defense and the military departments take any incursions by unauthorized aircraft into our training ranges or designated airspace very seriously and examine each report. This includes examinations of incursions that are initially reported as UAP when the observer cannot immediately identify what he or she is observing. https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/Press-Releases/display-pressreleases/Article/2314280/establishment-of-unidentified-aerial-phenomena-task-force/ https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/Press-Releases/display-pre...
- phlipski 3y agoWhere's Art Bell when we need him!?!?!?
- whartung 3y agoIndeed. The real question is why are the aliens apparently loosening their grip and letting the government release more information now? Is this some alien end game!?!? Art Bell’s show was a hoot to listen too.
- hayst4ck 3y agostep 1: Throw shit against the wall step 2: See what sticks step 3: Amplify that messaging step 4: Exercise power through providing spectacle and influencing attention step 5: Pacify with spectacle or agitate differences through amplified narratives to create chaos or division Am I insane for thinking that nation state manipulation of social media narrative is a more likely explanation for the upsurge of UFO/alien related media in the last 2-5 years than "otherworldly" craft?
- celtoid 3y agoNo, you're not insane. That's a more rational explanation than ET is.
- DoreenMichele 3y agoThe Flying Dutchman is thought to probably have been a Fata Morgana. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Dutchman https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Dutchman With everyone handwringing about climate change clearly being our doom, has no one once wondered if it might be partly responsible for an upsurge in sightings of unexplained aerial phenomenon?
- dcow 3y agoReminds me of the UFO that ended up being a lens flare on a gimbaled camera of a fighter jet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_UFO_videos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_UFO_videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs
- somenameforme 3y agoI'm beyond skeptical of the 'alien' videos, but Mick West is no better. He comes up with some pet theory that can create a similar visual phenomena, completely ignores any and all other factors, and then declares his pet theory the 'truth.' It's literally the exact same sort of conspiracy theory style behavior he claims to be fighting against, but he feels his theories are special because they're mundane, so they must be true - even if they're also about as sound as a house of cards. So for instance at 2:00 in the video you linked, he at least acknowledges that he's "not going to address" among other things that there were reported to be a fleet of the observed objects. He fails to acknowledge that he's also not addressing that the object was also observed from multiple sources. And the "SA" was also picking them up, which I can only assume is a sort of scanned array radar type system. In which case you have multiple forms of instrumentation picking the signals up, multiple trained pilots interpreting them as meaningful and distinct, and more. So in other words he's not going to address the countless things that effectively falsify everything else he's about to say. Finally, this seems to be a newer video. In his past videos he went so far as to suggest that the glare caused by the exhaust of a jet, when one fighter jet was (apparently?) locking onto another jet, all without realizing it. I fully agree with the implied idea there of tossing appeals to authority in the trash, but.... like with all things, sometimes this can be overdone. It seems that part of his theory was removed, and now it seems he's just leaving it as glare from nowhere? Ah yes, that's also one of those things he's "not going to address" now.
- klik99 3y agoI'll save my judgement for the inevitable Joe Rogan interview
- coolspot 3y agoEp 1315
- wintorez 3y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTHB8iC1C0E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTHB8iC1C0E
- twobitshifter 3y agoHumans crash probes into planets and asteroids. At the scale of the galaxy, alien probes could have launched long before humans were even a thing. Or if they had expected intelligent life, they wouldn’t know how intelligent the life would be. They could suspect equal intelligence to theirs. In the chance that this equally intelligent life could capture this probe, self destruct may be the optimal strategy. People are making the mistake of assuming an all knowing intelligent life-form. There are at least some feasible scenarios where alien craft could crash into earth.
- RagnarD 3y agoThere’s orders of magnitude more stars than grains of sand on earth. Mull that over before breezily dismissing evidence of extraterrestrial activity.
- hindsightbias 3y agoUFOlogy would be interesting if it ever made any effort to make engineering, science or biological sense. But these guys always have stories that dovetail with current fashions. Back in the day I believed in some of this stuff because there were stories from the 60's about alien remains that looked like insects. Because of course they'd have to sustain high g's crossing light years. They'd also be very lightweight, to keep the mass down. Completely sensical. Then somebody made up warp drives and every account switched to gray humanoids. Every conspiracy is so low effort and lazy now. But millions will believe it.
- motohagiography 3y agoI'm waiting for either, a) the rug pull after a credulous alternative media piles in, and then some minister says, "see, this is why we need to regulate social media" or b) the triple-down by politicians saying that the existence of aliens gives them a mandate to redistrubte everything immediately, supported by people who believe normal rules of humanity don't apply anymore because they've been told about aliens, and a bunch of other people who stand by and watch hoping nobody will come for them.
- ftio 3y agoCan someone explain to me how a species that can do one of the following can also do something as mundane as…crash? 1. Travel faster than light 2. Sustain a peaceful, productive, spacefaring civilization over millions of years to travel here 3. Create AI that can do 1 or 2 Am I missing something here? How can both of these facts be plausibly true? These are genuine questions, not snark.
- optymizer 3y agoI think ants could say the same thing about us. How could someone as advanced as a human just drown in the water or fall from a window and die?
- bongobingo1 3y agoEntropy? Surely even hyper intelligent mega aliens can spill coffee on their keyboard at least once. Things just go wrong sometimes.
- smeej 3y agoWhat evidence do we have that they traveled faster than light rather than, say, leaving a very, very, very long time ago? Or launching something in our direction, in hopes of generations surviving, but they didn't manage to, so there's nobody on board anymore? Or why couldn't they just have significantly misidentified what it would take to navigate in our atmosphere and have sent a ship that wasn't prepared, and didn't have a way to realize it wasn't prepared? I can think of a lot of very prosaic reasons.
- krapp 3y ago>What evidence do we have that they traveled faster than light rather than, say, leaving a very, very, very long time ago? We would see a generation ship coming. It would be big, it would give off waste heat, it would probably have to stay in orbit, if we're assuming it follows physics we're familiar with, it would have to use chemical or nuclear rocket propulsion, dump waste and need constant refueling and maintenance. So either they have warp drives and magical tech bullshit or they don't exist. Those are the two options.
- charliea0 3y agoIf the US had an alien space ship, why keep it secret? Seems like it would a globally important discovery and diplomatic / technological credit for the US. Even if the US were inclined to keep their space ship secret, other countries should be encountering UAPs given that the US sees hundreds per year. Some ground control operator should eventually share an in-focus picture at some point.
- myko 3y agoIf the US knew there were aliens it would have been exposed during the trump admin. Whether you like him or thought he did well or not you must admit he would've trumpeted this from the mountain tops.
- operatingthetan 3y agoIf this is hidden in some black budget somewhere you think they would have told Trump or anyone in his administration? No freaking way. It is well documented that even his closest advisors carefully controlled the information he was given.
- sandspar 3y agoIt'd be weird if it turned out that it is an alien aircraft and... that's it. It's too advanced for us to understand, it's too high tech. And we're left with, "Yup, aliens exist. No, we don't know anything more about them." It's like that old movie where an airline pilot drops a Coca Cola can into the midst of an uncontacted Amazonian tribe. "Wow, this thing sure is neat. Damned if I know what it's for though."
- cheshire137 3y agoThat old movie you're talking about... Is that The Gods Must Be Crazy?
- sandspar 3y agoBingo!
- double0jimb0 3y agoThis is the situation I’m leaning towards. Military has been trying unsuccessfully for 80 years to figure it out. An adult finally walks into the room, sees how hopeless their attempts are, and whistleblows.
- erdos4d 3y agoThis 100%. If this turns out to be real, I bet anything that they are clueless how it works, if they can even get it do anything.
- stevenhuang 3y agoAs someone who dug deep into the rabbit hole, yes, this is the "in-lore" explanation of it. Apparently a secretive clique in the air force take a group of scientists every few decades to see if any headway can be made into reverse engineering the technology. See "The day before Roswell" from US Colonel Corso Phillip. Epistemic note: the book has been dramatized by the publisher for effect and diverges from Corso's personal notes, and there is some disagreement with the way the story is told from Corso's son. Still, it paints a certain picture of who the major players are behind this alleged once-cover-up and how it apparently played out. Not too sure what to make it but it's a fun sci-fi story nevertheless :)
- OOPMan 3y agoLol
- treprinum 3y agoThis type of disclosure could destroy the society - what if we are just an experiment seeded and pruned by some alien civilization? Most philosophical reasons for a stable society would be thrown out of the window instantly.
- thsksbd 3y agoex-airforce claims that the air force is hiding alien craft. What's more likely? 1. That aliens who can break the speed of light were successfully shot down decades ago by the US using... a phantom f-4? 2. The "whistleblower" is spreading FUD to encourage an increase in the airforce budget
- Animats 3y agoThis guy seems to have done all the right things you're supposed to do if you discover a coverup as a DoD employee. He reported to the Inspector General. He reported to the committees in Congress that oversee intelligence activities. That's all authorized by law and regulation. He may be wrong, but he didn't do anything wrong.
- botanical 3y agoThe world is burning and what gets our attention? Aliens; and from a country infamous for alien ship sightings and that same country is known to lie when it's an advantage to them. Not to mention the testimony is hearsay. Either we have some grifters who don't have a job and are looking to make something out of their background. Or the US is doing some psyops for who knows why. Or just plain old mistaking one thing for another, perhaps through mental illness or jumping to conclusions.
- sholladay 3y agoI had an encounter with a UAP while I was with some friends in a park. We all saw the same thing. It was so black that its darkness was the only reason we noticed it against the night sky. It loomed over us, maybe 100 feet above the ground, and followed us when we walked away from it. It stayed for about 10 minutes and then flew away. It never made a sound, I never saw any lights, never felt any heat, but it was able to hover. It was hard to tell the shape, but roughly a disc, maybe a sphere. I never reported it or anything, mostly due to not knowing who to call and lack of evidence (cell phone cameras were primitive at the time and it was too dark). We still talk about it occasionally, not really knowing what to make of it.
- drumttocs8 3y agoWhat year? Fits the military drone narrative.
- sholladay 3y agoThis would’ve been around 2010-ish. I could maybe buy that it was a stealthy military drone, although I kind of doubt any drone is that big or stealthy. But then, why would a military drone be interested in some random young adults hanging out in the park? I considered that it might’ve been testing the limits of its stealthiness. But then why did it hang around after we started talking about it, pointing at it, and trying to record it? No, it felt a lot more like we were being studied. Especially in the way it followed us. Slowly, smoothly, and with a little distance.
- drumttocs8 3y agoDefinitely crazy any way you look at it; something was observing you, whether man or otherwise. I personally could buy the "autonomous alien probe sent 10,000 years ago" narrative, but just seems like we'd have more concrete, widely distributed evidence by now.
- nk83 3y agoI created an account just to chime in . Had the same experience happen to me around 30 years ago in a rural area. I think the only reason I was able to distinguish the round shape against the night sky was because there was almost no light pollution. In my case it was a small group of them flying in a v shape Formation just passing by.
- olalonde 3y agoNew solution to the Fermi paradox: Highly advanced extraterrestrial civilizations deliberately delay their appearances, letting centuries of erroneous UFO sightings desensitize us first. This tactic allows their real spacecraft to go unnoticed, as cynicism has led us to dismiss any new reports.
- leepowers 3y agoJonathan Grey, a current US intelligence official at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (Nasic), confirmed the existence of “exotic materials” to the Debrief, adding: “We are not alone.” ... Grusch said it was dangerous for this “eighty-year arms race” to continue in secrecy because it “further inhibits the world populace to be prepared for an unexpected, non-human intelligence contact scenario.” “I hope this revelation serves as an ontological shock sociologically and provides a generally uniting issue for nations of the world to re-assess their priorities,” Grusch said. A conspiracy spanning the better part of century should have more high-level whistleblowers than Grusch and Grey. If their claims are proven out the names Grusch and Grey will be immortalized in history. We still talk about the Gutenberg printing press. Centuries from now people will still talk about Grusch and Grey, and how they kick-started a new era of human knowledge. Are we to believe that over the course of eighty years, comprising hundreds if not thousands of individuals, many of whom would have access to the same documents and materials, not a single one of these individuals, motivated by either honor or ego, decided to make this world historical disclosure? The story seems engineered to appeal to the conspiracy theorist. A brave iconoclast bucks the system and exposes a massive coverup - a truth that just happens to confirm all the poorly sourced and speculative claims made by the true believers. Wait, why haven't we seen any miraculous technology derived from alien tech? Ahhh, this tech exists, but it's hoarded by a secretive cabal who may or may not themselves be aliens/reptiles or blood-drinking elites. Etcetera, etcetera. On the other hand ... it would be apropos if bureaucratic inertia led to a world-shattering disclosure. And the conspiracy theories could be 95% b.s. and 5% truth. For all those reasons I'm not really convinced. Are Grusch and Grey convinced because the evidence is that overwhelming? Are they seeped in online UFO conspiracy culture, and reading a very slanted interpretation into the intelligence documents they have accessed? Are the analyses the military has run on any recovered materials sufficient to determine an origin in non-human intelligence? Have any experts outside the military examined and tested these materials? Does there exists genuine recovered craft ala Independence Day or are the "craft" large meteors that, if you squint, kind of look like a spacecraft? Have they recovered biological material? Ultimately we won't be able to make a true determination until we get some actual evidence. First, reviewing any documents that supposedly contain these extraordinary claims. Second, interviews with other intelligence officials who have spoken with Grusch and have had access to the materials. Third, getting these materials into the hands of relevant experts, to determine if non-human intelligence is the most likely source.
- rhaway84773 3y ago> Grusch said the US government and defense contractors had been recovering fragments of non-human craft, and in some cases entire craft, for decades. This makes it sound like the US govt is recovering material that has been found lying around, maybe due to a crash, or debris from an accident, or a piece of a UFO that broke off, etc. Simple question. Why is it that only the US govt is recovering this? Presumably if these are pieces of matter that aliens are leaving behind unintentionally, they would have left them behind distributed across the world. So why aren’t other, less allegedly secretive governments with spy agencies that are less capable or protect data better, not also recovering such material? Why, in hundreds of years of UFOs visiting the earth, and leaving debris behind, are random goat farmers not finding this debris lying around? How has every govt that has managed to find this debris managed to keep it a secret?
- secondary_op 3y agoThis is CIA psyop to distract and hid in this noise, actual news, that it is been exactly 10 years since whistleblower former intelligence Edward Snowden told world the truth about CIA and U.S. government. What is the connection ? Headlines: > *Whistleblower former intelligence* official says government possesses ‘intact and partially intact’ craft of non-human origin And here is Snowden interview from 5 hours ago: SNOWDEN REVELATIONS 10-Year Anniversary: Glenn Greenwald Speaks with Snowden & Laura Poitras on the Past, Present, & Future of Their Historic Reporting | SYSTEM UPDATE #93 https://rumble.com/v2sgyx2-snowden-revelations-10-year-anniversary-glenn-greenwald-speaks-with-snowden.html https://rumble.com/v2sgyx2-snowden-revelations-10-year-anniv... Try searching the web "Whistleblower former intelligence" it is all about UFOs now. then add "before:2022" to search query, this is what CIA trying to do. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Whistleblower&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://www.google.com/search?q=Whistleblower+former+intelligence+before%253A2022&hl=en& https://www.google.com/search?q=Whistleblower+former+intelli...
- winrid 3y agoOr is it a psyop to make us think it's a psyop to remind us how powerful the CIA is?
- jrflowers 3y agoThe “news” is an anniversary?
- secondary_op 3y agoYes, it is news because subject matter is still relevant as before and CIA want people forget about this and instead think about UFOs.
- jrflowers 3y agoIf I hadn’t seen this post about UFOs and clicked on the comments I wouldn’t have read about this anniversary at all.
- erdos4d 3y agoA lot of people have remarked that the government couldn't keep a secret this big for so long. This is correct but misses the point that this secret wasn't kept. I've heard this story multiple times in my life, it's been a staple of US lore for decades and numerous whistleblowers have come forward in the past to retell it. All have been discredited and often smeared as nuts and the media has reported as much and moved on. If this really is true and they really do have a massive disinfo campaign to protect it, we have no choice but to admit that they have never kept a lid on this through secrecy, they have done it through character assassination and control of the media narrative, turning anyone who speaks up into a lunatic off his meds, a liar, and so on, and then moving the public's eye onto something else. That this strategy has worked so effectively and for so long is scarier than aliens, IMO.
- naruhodo 3y agoPish posh. Psy op.
- thryg 3y agoFunnily all UFO sightings happened in America. Coincidenc i don't think so
- chunk_waffle 3y agoIt would be absurd to think that some organization _doesn't_ have a _plan_, or perhaps even an entire team prepared, for handling retrieval of an unidentified craft, right? Even if it's never happened, surely there's a plan for handling something weird falling from the sky. That's definitely someone's job... Now, if that playbook is seen by someone and then goes through several games of telephone I wouldn't be shocked if it turned into "we have retrieved vehicles of non-human origin."
- interfixus 3y agoClose encounters of the blurred kind. If, at some point in the future, we get small, handy, cheap, good quality cameras that people make a habit of always carrying around, then surely the nature of these phenomena will easily be determined.
- jl6 3y agoIt is my opinion that the decline in US Christianity has not reduced the underlying religiosity, and the population that would previously have been firm believers in angels/demons/gods/etc. have directed their desire to believe to something else. UFOs are one of many such alternatives.
- Dr_Birdbrain 3y agoAh yes, we’re about to get photographic and evidence of aliens right when widespread generative AI explodes, cannot possibly be a coincidence
- dtx1 3y agoWhen this is ultimately revealed to be true, I just want this reference here to show you: I told you so.
- mellosouls 3y agoDiscussion of this story from a couple of days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36195832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36195832
- drumhead 3y agoMy feeling is that they're prepping us for full disclosure. The evidence and witnesses that were seeing more recently are less fringe and more mainstream. They also don't seem to be trying as hard to debunk claims as they used to. The fact that the Guardian has covered this seriously is quite surprising, they usually treat this issue like a joke.
- ithkuil 3y agoCould this be ascribed to a generational change in the general population which includes journalists and editors and whatnot?
- Havoc 3y agoRemember those mysterious propulsion patent the us military filed? Perhaps they had inspiration
- psychoslave 3y agoLet’s suppose that aliens where able to travel from distant galaxy to earth. Let’s suppose that they didn’t travel to dispose of resources abundant on earth (in which case it seems obvious that they would most likely already ostensibly or furtively dominating the world with their advanced technologies). For example, instead they want to make tourism in invisibility-intangibility suits: "look my darling, how quaint this planet is!". I very strongly doubt any group of human could catch an alien vehicle of such an advanced civilization.
- jtode 3y agoThe Guardian has been tentatively placed in the "Tabloid" category. In the absence of UFO evidence emerging, there they shall stay.
- z7 3y agoAnother episode of 'people who sit in a box and stare at a screen all day tell us that the military pilots, air traffic controllers and government workers are mentally ill or lying because something they say challanges the customery view of what constitutes reality outside the box with the screen'.
- neom 3y agoIsn't the whistle blower stuff considerably less interesting than this: But some insiders are now willing to take the risk of coming forward for the first time with knowledge of these recovery programs. Jonathan Grey is a generational officer of the United States Intelligence Community with a Top-Secret Clearance who currently works for the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC), where the analysis of UAP has been his focus. Previously he had experience serving Private Aerospace and Department of Defense Special Directive Task Forces. “The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said. “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.” huh? This is a current NASIC officer saying “The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” - isn't that in itself extremely weird/surprising?
- atentaten 3y agoYes, that along with the last sentence. It sounds like what you are ‘supposed’ to say when this type of revelation is made because we’ve heard it many times before in movies and books over the decades.
- dmix 3y agoIt's always some unnamed US gov unit hiding the discovery from the wider US gov itself in these ~~movies~~ I mean whistleblowing claims.
- gsatic 3y agoThe Pentagon is full of self important buffoons. Could be generic crap from crash sites of test drones, aircrafts, missiles, satellites etc if its secret stuff are ppl going to inform everyone on the planet? Just never ending mindlessness thanks to the Attention Economy giving morons too much attention.
- Loquebantur 3y agoWhy do you imagine yourself more competent than those "buffoons" who work in the Pentagon? You believe they see some crap, jump to the conclusion it was "alien spaceships" and go on record declaring to have "working craft"? I wonder who is who here.
- Geee 3y agoI'm pretty sure this is related to those balloons they shot down. They we're UAPs officially. They're too embarrassed to admit that they we're just hobbyist balloons, and thus they want to keep it under wraps. Meanwhile, someone extrapolates it into alien spacecraft. On the other hand, I think that it's in the realm of possibilities that there are some AI-controlled Von Neumann probes on Earth, sleeping in the bottom of the ocean, and checking on us from time to time. It's not unlikely that there's a point in time where they think we're ready to know the truth and they reveal themselves and their knowledge.
- m0llusk 3y agoReally weird how political this is. UFOs are totally real but space lasers are funny, yet the evidence for both is basically the same grainy video. General AI as a strong problem, indeed.
- footlose_3815 3y agoThis is what happens when misinformation runs rampant. Legitimate news publications are being pressured by know-nothings on the internet listening to a guy who is literally not a primary witness to anything he claims to have "proof" of. Happens every now and then, but lately, the UFO crazies keep resurfacing every few months. The dumbest are dragging down credibility, as usual. If there were aliens, they'd have communicated or killed us by now.
- konart 3y agoSome Bene Gesserit schemes right there.
- stevenhuang 3y agoMy epistemic claim after having dived deep into this topic from a rational and analytical perspective, is that it's all true. And as crazy it sounds there may also be a mystical component to reality that conventional science cannot (currently) explain. The topic is vast and deep and may have profound implications about humanity and the universe. But like many, we can only speculate until more hard data is released and further research into this "phenomenon" is conducted.
- berniedurfee 3y agoAs much as I want to believe that the truth is out there. It seems highly improbable that every craft that has crashed ever has done so in the territory of the small number of countries with the motives, resources and strict governance to recover and hide these artifacts with zero shreds of physical evidence. I’m certain there are plenty of countries and groups that would proudly parade around a crashed UFO if it came down on their soil. Maybe these craft spend 99% of their time hanging out over highly secure US military sites. Sounds pretty boring to me to come all this way to observe ancient technology.
- xtrohnx 3y agoI hope Bob Lazar is kicking back with a cigar and a cold one in his backyard and having a good day.
- fennecfoxy 3y agoLmao. If aliens actually did exist (they may well do, but given the size of the universe, probably far far away from our terrible species) then why do all the paranoid conspiracy loving Americans seem to think that ONLY the U.S. would have found evidence of aliens, or found an alien craft or materials or whatever? Because it's all bullshit, that's why. Granted, the Brits silenced themselves so that the entire world didn't know that they were the first to build a computer, so I suppose the secrecy required is possible. But in all of human history, we're expected to believe that an alien craft was discovered by the U.S. gov, at the right time for us to have the tech to discover it and that this was the only craft around? Surely an alien species' timelines aren't going to magically line up with ours, surely a supposed craft could've landed at any point in our short history on this planet.
- docmars 3y agoWhy is the US government peddling conspiracy theories after condemning true ones for the past 3 years?
- dsfsder3423 3y agoThe whole chit-chat isn't productive actually, because almost everybody gives a fun about the aliens, we just need to know how those things fly without wings, fans, rockets in them. We mostly don't even care about the pilots. How they can easily zip to the LEO in less than a minute like it wasn't a big thing at all vs. how a human built rocket needs a carefully planned operation just not to blow up even before raising up from the very floor?
- rocket_surgeron 3y agoIf an extraterrestrial intelligence has reached the level of ability needed to transport large masses over vast interstellar distances, they are not lazily buzzing F/A-18s off the coast of California. They're not coyly darting to and fro in a game with, almost exclusively American, pilots. They're not hiding themselves from humanity, for whatever reason. Their immense power would be like the Sun shining next to humanity's candle. They would not care, or even know to care, about how we would react to their presence. Their interaction with Earth would be like Earth's with Mars. Sure we take steps to sterilize Mars rovers to prevent contamination but only because when we drill the hell out of that rock in broad daylight for all the Martians to see we want to make sure we only get Mars stuff. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.
- jabradoodle 3y agoWe also often prefer not to disturb animals because they are interesting and we think they have value. Of course there are motives that intefere with that; but you can't make a blanket assumption about an alien racing traveling vast distances through space to visit. Maybe they would just want to observe out of interest.
- andy_11246 3y agoDoes anyone remember the story of Bob Lazar: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar
- mvkel 3y agoThis reminds me of the psyop that the British executed in WWII: that carrots improve your vision. They spread that misinformation to cover the fact that they had new radar tech that let them bomb at night. I wonder if the US gov has some kind of hovering tech and they're smoke signaling it under UFO?