11 ms·
Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers
- xattt 5mo agoIt helps that the base plane is built in Canada, and that the PM made commitments to the Swedish king in November 2025.
- kspacewalk2 5mo agoWorth noting that the base plane for one of the US-based contenders, the Aeris X by L3Harris, would also be the same Bombardier Global 6500 business jet.
- rozab 5mo agoThat one has the disadvantage of not yet existing, although South Korea has ordered
- 866-RON-0-FEZ 5mo agoOr, consider that the smaller Saab better fits the mission profile for Canada, and may be cheaper to operate, all the while The Guardian is furiously beating off trying to turn this into a bigger story than it really is.
- xethos 5mo agoCheaper to operate and mission-fit (debatable) is one thing, but the real question is: "Would this have happened without the US president's antics?"
- munk-a 5mo agoWithout the second election of Trump? It's likely. Canada's aircraft industry got majorly burned by the US in 2017 during his first administration and Biden didn't significantly reverse the impact in any way.
- 866-RON-0-FEZ 5mo ago> Canada's aircraft industry got majorly burned by the US in 2017 Canada's aircraft industry has been on life support since long before Trump took office, having been forced to partner up with China. The C-Series was divested to Airbus, the Dash 8 isn't produced anymore, and all Bombardier proper produces are biz-jets.
- jgon 5mo agoLol, why do you think the C series was divested to Airbus? https://www.reuters.com/article/business/trump-administration-sides-with-boeing-in-bombardier-dispute-idUSKBN1EE2L9/ https://www.reuters.com/article/business/trump-administratio...
- munk-a 5mo agoI don't disagree that Bombardier commercial aircraft was struggling before that tariff - but it absolutely was the nail in the coffin. They actually ended up selling off the C-Series to Airbus for 1 CAD as a symbolic f-you to Boeing over the whole affair. The WTO ended up finding in Bombardier's favor but it came in too late to save the company from the financial damage. Whether the C-Series would have been profitable for Bombardier without the extreme heavy-handed US intervention is not particularly clear but the outlook already wasn't great - still, it's inarguable that Boeing leveraged lobbying to quicken Bombardier's demise.
- 8note 5mo agotrump is now going after said biz-jets its straight economic warfare on behalf of Boeing
- lysace 5mo agoObviously not. Canada would gladly have kept paying 2x market prices just to stay in the good graces of the US, with a presumption of 'free' defense in exchange for paying so much. This era is over. US defense companies now need to compete for real.
- jleyank 5mo agoUnfortunately, there is nothing in the US system (as far as I can see) that prevents Trump-like behaviour being the new standard. There were three supposedly independent, contentious branches of Government. One is inert (legislature), one enabled Trump (SCOTUS) and the third, of course, is Trump. I am unaware of any mechanism that can change things.
- vkou 5mo agoThere is also the fourth - the press, which is either actively cheerleading him, or sanewashing every insane thing be does, or walks an eggshells around him.
- ianm218 5mo agoTrump-like behavior isn't the inevitable result of the US System though. We could've had another 20 presidents in a row who didn't go and break the norm of maintaining global alliances and not threatening to invade our neighbors and closest allies constantly. So it's relevant to ask if this would still be happening without Trumps antics, even isolationists like JD Vance wouldn't force our allies hands like this.
- jleyank 5mo agoTrump would have done nothing if he wasn’t aided and enabled by the rest of the government. There’s no indication this was a one off.
- kshacker 5mo agoSure, but look at the alternative. Oppose him and he will support your primary opponent, like it happened yesterday in Texas. The problem is his pied piper like hold on the populace which happened because the parties did not actually try to solve the problems. Sure they did solve some, but then they closed their eyes to the evils their group demanded - sanctuary cities on one side, and "right to life" on the other side.
- 5mo ago
- poiuyt098 5mo agoyes. in 2015 trudeau ran a campaign on cancelling the F35 purchase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_Canadian_procurement?useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning...
- jerlam 5mo agoThe US doesn't even use the Wedgetail, and has cancelled and then un-cancelled it: https://aerospaceglobalnews.com/news/pentagon-e-7-wedgetail-funding-usaf/ https://aerospaceglobalnews.com/news/pentagon-e-7-wedgetail-...
- bigyabai 5mo agoSaab makes excellent AWACS systems, this strikes me as a good choice. It'll be interesting to see if Canada also invests in the Gripen long-term, as a replacement for the aging CF-18 fleet.
- jleyank 5mo agoI think the F-16 would have been a good bird for Canada's needs. The F-18 had the advantage of two engines, which strikes me as a good thing in the Arctic. If these two are off the table, things like the Saab are reasonable. There's only 2-3 countries one needs stealth fighters for, and 30-40-ish won't matter in such cases.
- switchbak 5mo agoWe've long pushed for 2 engines - which has made sense in the past. Even a successful ejection over the vast arctic would basically be a death sentence. Though some of our allies don't seem to have the same reservations, and it seems modern engines are a lot more reliable - certainly the F-35 only has one, so it looks like we're ok with it now. The modern F-18's and the new F-15's would have also made sense, but agreed that modern F-16s would seem to be a nearly perfect fit if a single engine is now deemed acceptable. Given we like to keep equipment for as long as physically possible (and then some), the F-35 might have more runway (rimshot) in that regard though.
- jleyank 5mo agoIf the F-15 line is still in production, it's a damn fine bird and has broad mission capability. And the remaining B-52's are probably older that most of the HN community. At least those not retired or cashed out.
- switchbak 5mo agoThe F-15 EX looks to be pretty popular right now, export-oriented and will probably be around for a while. To be honest, which aircraft we choose isn't going to be the make or break part. All the other terrible decisions that politicians make will be. Like waffling on a decision for another 10-15 years, paying cancellation fees, etc.
- moltar 5mo agoNow the interesting question to me is why is that a country with a tenth of population can have car, truck and military plane manufacturing yet Canada can’t, even with virtually all resources for inputs, including energy can’t.
- toxik 5mo agoSweden does not have a car industry. The fighter jets are a different matter, very strong technical moat and need to prove the system in combat. You can't just start a fighter jet business.
- michaelscott 5mo agoIt does with Volvo, although I couldn't say how big it is relative to global industry. Within Europe it's a large player
- distances 5mo agoScania is Swedish, too.
- sedatk 5mo agoA Chinese company owns Volvo since 2010 or so.
- turtlesdown11 5mo agoThe car part of Volvo is owned by Geely, Volvo AB makes trucks, buses, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo
- jwandborg 5mo agoVolvo Cars is still headquartered in Sweden, and employ 22.4k people in Sweden out of 40k globally[1]. Given that the market for Volvo is global, it seems to me that Volvo Cars is still overwhelmingly Swedish, while at the same time being overwhelmingly controlled by Geely. [1]; https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/1000-personer-far-lamna-volvo https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vast/1000-personer-far-lam...
- ge96 5mo agoBring back the Arrow
- lwansbrough 5mo agoSomething new please. We should be looking forward not pining for what could have been. The future of air superiority, particularly with respect to sovereign defence is passive or quantum radar, autonomous A2/AD and directed energy.
- 8note 5mo agowe can still call it an arrow though or a whole series of arrows
- stackghost 5mo agoThe Arrow would be a terrible, terrible aircraft for today's world. It was built to shoot down Soviet bombers coming over the North Pole. It could not perform air superiority missions because it was too big to be agile. It could maybe be a strike fighter, but generally its reputation overstates just how good it would have actually been.
- jmclnx 5mo ago> as the country seeks to reduce reliance on US defense firms I wonder why ? I think we may be seeing a lot more of this. Maybe we will get to see what US Corporations value more, real paying customers or large tax cuts w/stock buy back curtsy of US Gov Monetary Support.
- hnburnsy 5mo agoBoeing and Airbus have tremendous backlogs... >As of March 31st, 2026, Airbus reported a commercial aircraft backlog of 9,031 aircraft. Based on the company’s 2026 delivery target of 870 aircraft, this represents approximately 10.4 years of production coverage. >Boeing’s commercial backlog stood at approximately 6,719 aircraft at the end of March. Using Forecast International’s production estimates, Boeing’s backlog equates to roughly 10.1 years of production coverage. https://flightplan.forecastinternational.com/2026/04/14/airbus-and-boeing-report-march-2026-commercial-aircraft-orders-and-deliveries/ https://flightplan.forecastinternational.com/2026/04/14/airb...
- expedition32 5mo ago[flagged]
- cm2187 5mo agoGermany couldn't switch off their tanks remotely in 1936
- munk-a 5mo agoThey could refuse to supply replacement parts though and while reverse engineering critical replacements was easier in 1936 it was still a serious concern (especially when it came to figuring out where the capacity to do so would come from).
- mpol 5mo agoThose are facts. They do not mean that the people who ordered them today are wanting them today. If you need them in 10 years time, you need to order them today. It can easily change, if a flight company doesnt want to do business with Boeing or Airbus, they can cancel their pre-orders. Then the pre-order list might shrink really fast.
- Zigurd 5mo agoIndeed. Backlogs can evaporate. Can you imagine anyone taking delivery of a newly built 737 in 10 years? 7 years? Theoretically, that's part of the backlog.
- khriss 5mo agoI can understand why this change happened. Even if American equipment is superior, there is a lot of value to not depending on a supposed 'ally' which * Arbitrarily slapped high tariffs on all goods from Canada while exempting Russia and Belarus. * Threatened to take over the country by force. * Officially suspended the Permanent Joint Board on Defense between US and Canada because of criticism of US foreign policy by the Canadian PM
- greenleafone7 5mo agoVastly inferior and overpriced. From now till delivery the US will blackmail the buyer with delays and increase the agreed upon price at least 3 times. Standard practice.
- 866-RON-0-FEZ 5mo agoWe call this confirmation bias. The Saab is likely cheaper to operate as it's a smaller plane and Canada only has to patrol its northern border.
- mikeyouse 5mo ago> Canada only has to patrol its northern border. At what point on this current trajectory in the US would that change... mostly facetiously, but not entirely..
- petcat 5mo agoCanada would only have to patrol its southern Alberta border /s No coincidence that Albertans are sparking up the seceding issue again. When 10% of the population produces nearly 20% of the country's GDP it's a breeding ground for contempt. And it also seems like Albertans are the butt of a lot of jokes from the other Canadians anyway. I'm sure this US government would love to see an "independent" Alberta.
- squigz 5mo ago> And it also seems like Albertans are the butt of a lot of jokes from the other Canadians anyway. This is hardly my experience as a Canadian. They're not Newfoundlanders, for crying out loud...
- sourcegrift 5mo ago[flagged]
- Bender 5mo agoAwesome, the more suppliers, sources and competition the better. Might this bring prices down and quality up?
- winfredJa 5mo agoTrump's damage to the USA will be studied extensively in the future.
- SecretDreams 5mo agoDepends how much it gets damaged. There's a world where they won't know how to read in the future.
- thegrim33 5mo ago[flagged]
- toasty228 5mo agoThat's the first stage of grief, four to go
- AlexandrB 5mo agoMy only source of grief as a Canadian is the dismal state[1] of my country and the bleak prognosis for the future[2]. The whole "elbows up" thing is a convenient sideshow to take attention away from our domestic problems. [1] https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2026/05/apple-on-bill-c-22-this-bill-allows-the-government-of-canada-to-force-companies-to-break-encryption-by-inserting-backdoors-into-their-products/ https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2026/05/apple-on-bill-c-22-this-... [2] https://www.bcbc.com/insight/oecd-predicts-canada-will-be-the-worst-performing-advanced-economy-over-the-next-decade-and-the-three-decades-after-that https://www.bcbc.com/insight/oecd-predicts-canada-will-be-th...
- lfuller 5mo agoWhile I completely agree with you on [1] and it's tiring to have to re-litigate this issue every few years, [2] was from 2021 and doesn't reflect Canada's current policies.
- AlexandrB 5mo agoCanada's current policies seem like a continuation of their previous policies. The only major change is the weakening of links to the US, which is likely to make the economy worse, not better. Even bill C-22 is a zombie bill from the Trudea era (C-63). Tech investment is still flat (nearing zero)[1], taxes are up, and 20% of the workforce have government jobs[2]. This country is cooked. [1] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-venture-capital-investment-in-canadian-growth-stage-firms-fell-to-near/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-venture-cap... [2] https://thehub.ca/2025/12/08/canada-added-950000-government-jobs-in-past-decade-outpacing-private-sector-job-growth-study/ https://thehub.ca/2025/12/08/canada-added-950000-government-...
- hermitcrab 5mo agoIn related news: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2026/05/21/italy-moves-to-airbus-a330-tankers-in-major-nato-aligned-shift https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2026/05/21/italy-moves-to... I guess insulting and threatening your allies isn't great for arms sales.
- felooboolooomba 5mo agoIf people want to grasp the view of US in Europe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8qSZO4jvTI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8qSZO4jvTI (You can watch just the first minute to get the gist)
- hermitcrab 5mo agoHadn't seen that before. Bloody marvellous.
- golem14 5mo agoAnd speech was from 1yr ago. The view has probably not improved since ?
- Fordec 5mo agoHere's a video from this year from a French General that is more up to date on the current vibes https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XQJ5YEsNQws https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XQJ5YEsNQws And for some more data than anecdote, the current polling where the US is now 14 points behind China in net approval. https://news.gallup.com/poll/707945/china-edges-past-global-approval-ratings.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/707945/china-edges-past-global-...
- 0xDEAFBEAD 5mo agoEh, the US was also hated in Europe as Biden was sending lots of money to Ukraine in the wake of Russia's invasion: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u... You can see even with Biden as president, around half of Europe's population regarded the US unfavorably. This was at a time when the US was sending more aid per capita than almost all European countries: https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1hd7aud/military_aid_to_ukraine_per_capita_compared_to_usa/ https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1hd7aud/military_ai... There's no point in trying to please these people. They'll accuse the US of warmongering one year, then demand that the US help them fight a war the next year.
- throwaway85825 5mo agoThe US wedgetail order was canceled and Canada can't afford to fund the program on its own. But slop journalists will spin a geopolitical angle because it gets clicks.
- e40 5mo agoOver the last few months we've seen announcements of shifts from US-based supply chains to non-US-supply chains. As an American, I think this is prudent, based on what has happened in the last year and change. The US is no longer a reliable partner and this is what you do when that happens. 100 years from now, the last 15 months will be written about in no uncertain terms: this administration has loaded many footguns and pulled the trigger, over ideologies which are just plain stupid. "America First" indeed. Soft power is power. "Forever" wars are wars we shouldn't be in. Retribution by POTUS acting like a 5 year old is disgusting no matter what party that person came from. It will take decades to recover from what has and will happen during this administration's run. Let's hope the power they have ends in November 2026 and not Nov 2028.
- throwaway85825 5mo agoLook around you. What products do you own with a US supply chain and what has a Chinese supply chain.
- e40 5mo agoSupply chains are not just components, but things like military planes. See referenced article.
- jleyank 5mo agoGuess the people writing on HN here don't have Mac's, iPhones or iPads or use whatever the watches are called.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- throwaway85825 5mo agoThe supply chain for apple products is almost entirely Chinese. From BOE displays to PCBs and passive. Then assembled in China.
- vitally3643 5mo ago
- standardUser 5mo agoAs an American with mostly headline-level knowledge of Canadian politics, this Mark Carney seems unusually competent and effective, as far as heads-of-state go.
- Laurel1234 5mo agoHe was the Governor of both the Bank of England and the Bank of Canada.
- 8note 5mo agobank of canada during the 08 problems, and bank of England over brexit, too he's worked through a lot of emergencies
- fatbird 5mo agoWill Ferguson wrote a book named _Bastards and Boneheads_ [0] that told the history of Canada's prime ministers as one or the other. The bastards made history, the boneheads are remembered for their folly. Mulroney and Pierre Trudeau were bastards, and supremely consequential in Canadian history. Joe Clark and Paul Martin were boneheads. Which ones Harper and Justin Trudeau are may be too soon to tell, but Carney is clearly a bastard. [0] https://www.amazon.ca/Bastards-Boneheads-Canadas-Glorious-Leaders/dp/1550547372 https://www.amazon.ca/Bastards-Boneheads-Canadas-Glorious-Le...
- throwaway27448 5mo agoSwimming downstream is easier than swimming upstream. Admitting basic reality we all talk about—eg that canada is a vassal state of the us—is only difficult until the cash river stops.
- stuxnet79 5mo agoMark is a technocrat. He started his political career after a long, successful stint as an economist and central bank governor. Nobody is perfect but he is about the best leader Canada can hope for to lead it out of the current funk it is in. Pivoting away from a long-term trading partner is not an easy process. Frankly, the issues that Canada faces now stem from a long history of questionable policies, starting from when Diefenbaker shuttered the Arrow and stripped the talent and parts to be scooped up by Boeing, Lockheed et al all the way to when Mulroney & Reagan signed the FTA dooming Canada's private sector. None of this has been good for Canada's sovereignty and long term independence/success. A non-trivial amount of the SV luminaries that have started companies which showcase American inventiveness have a Canadian passport even though they don't advertise it. The strained relationship with the US right now is actually providing ample opportunity for Canada to make some strategic long term bets without the "US foreign policy alignment" overhang. I'm optimistic.
- jleyank 5mo agoWe can also have a chuckle and imagine the kerfuffle in the US West Coast wanted to be the 11th provinces...
- jameson 5mo agoTrust matters in business because it provides a sense of predictability
- LightBug1 5mo agoCompletely understandable. It's like when your favourite restaurant gets taken over by new management, and you discover cockroaches and maggots in your Trenette al Pesto You switch restaurants.
- carlosjobim 5mo agoCountries always use the threat of buying Swedish war planes as a bargaining chip to get a better deal from the US, or whoever they're really going to buy from. So these news are best believed when everything is signed, sealed, and delivered. This has been going on for at least 20 years with SAAB fighters. From the article: "Saab is also in the running to sell Canada some of its Gripen fighters. Canada has a deal to buy 88 F-35 jets from Lockheed-Martin, but last year, after the US slapped tariffs on key Canadian imports, Carney asked the military to investigate whether it could cut back the order and buy some planes from another manufacturer." Ask yourself: Why would a nation spill military secrets like this to the media? They're trying to put pressure on the US. Those Gripen fighters are in all likelihood staying in Sweden after all is said and done.
- Waterluvian 5mo agoI feel a deep sense of pride and hope, palpably in my chest, when I get a week of news about how we're developing much closer ties with our European allies and divesting ourselves of the abusive American relationship. Carney's Davos speech was powerful, but those words needed to be followed by actions, which I think we are seeing. I'm used to being so disappointed by politicians.
- gunsle 5mo ago[flagged]
- Waterluvian 5mo agoIt’s not abuse when I threaten your freedoms because think of all the things I say I did for you! That’s the way an abuser thinks.
- fooster 5mo ago“for you”. Not because you were asked mind you.
- 1718627440 5mo agoPrecisely this blame game is part of the abusive relationship.
- bluegatty 5mo agoThis is actually more likely a non-political procurement decision that looks like a political one. This is the 'right size' for Canada and other nations - the US doesn't offer a true comparable, and, looks like the US balked at buying the 'kind of comparable' Boeing E7 putting it in jeopardy. With European military renaissance and the SAAB gear proving itself in Ukraine ... well, you see the shift. This is the shift writ large. This is going to happen across all industries. I don't think it's going to 'fundamentally' alter the landscape, but it will be a shift we don't come back from.
- adjejmxbdjdn 5mo agoIn the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing agreements left and right and the President has openly said he may not respond to a valid Article 5 invocation. - Being a U.S. ally seems to bring even more threats from the U.S. as Canada and Europe are seeing - Being a U.S. ally is no guarantee of protection even if you literally host American bases like the gulf countries are seeing. In fact, it’s only made them a target and the U.S. prioritized protecting Israel entirely over protecting any of the Gulf states. The value proposition for buying U.S. weapons has become really bad at this point.
- bluegatty 5mo agoSo I don't think 'buying US gear made you an ally' - it was just part of the package, and in some cases, the US would 'require allies' to buy. The US Ambassador to Canada is openly threatening Carney right now with some procurement things - the 'Big One' is the F35. This is Can PM Carney playing a decent card, and biding for time until the midterms, and then waiting out the 'lame duck' period. 'Border State Republicans' are badly upset with the anti-Canada situation, and will buck Trump if given the chance without massive repercussions. Trump may not force the issue if he knows he's going to lose. If we see Trump with conciliatory language towards Canada after the elections, it's because he knows he's been beat. Or if he just shuts up about it and let's the negotiations roll. I give it 50/50. But - to be very clear - the world is 'doing 1 nudge' away from the US - not 'breaking away'.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- throw8756 5mo agoCanada will pay for this
- fragmede 5mo agoYes. They're paying Sweden. It's in the title.
- nl 5mo agoThe Saab GlobalEye is based on the Bombardier Global 6500 airframe. Bombardier Aviation is a Canadian company. For those who aren't aware, the Boeing E7 is yet-another-delayed-Boeing project. The UK has bought it but it has been continually delayed: https://breakingdefense.com/2026/03/uk-defense-official-boeing-has-been-troubled-partner-in-much-delayed-e-7-program/ https://breakingdefense.com/2026/03/uk-defense-official-boei... Australia flies it (an earlier version) but today announced they are also buying three Bombardier Global 6500: https://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/news/bombardier-defense-provides-global-6500-aircraft https://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/news/bombardier-de...
- ThePowerOfFuet 5mo ago>Bombardier Aviation is a Canadian company. Was. They are now part of Airbus, much like Bombardier Transport is now part of Alstom.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- maxglute 5mo agoGlobalEye still ~20% US components, probably fall into US ITAR/EAR shenanigans territory if US wants to US.
- bushbaba 5mo agoSaab uses the Bombardier Global 6500 here. Which is entirely manufactured in Canada. This is less politics and more about economics
- dingaling 5mo agoNot 'entirely', the 6500's wings are made in Japan, the rear fuselage and tail in Northern Ireland and the engines in England.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- gchokov 5mo agoThe world is slowly moving away from the US. It's interesting because this administration main goal was to MAGA.. but it happened quite the opposite thing. It turns out, the world doesn't need much of the US products and services.
- GJim 5mo agoHere is some hard data to back that up; the Country Perceptions Index. https://www.niradata.com/country-perceptions https://www.niradata.com/country-perceptions
- Imustaskforhelp 5mo agoThis was interesting but it seems that it requires me to access to properly see the data of all countries (which requires me to contact them basically and perhaps be a business, not sure) I would find it interesting if you can share with me hopefully a less restrictive chart than this. The data does seem interesting to me.
- GJim 5mo agoHere you go. https://www.niradata.com/global-country-perceptions-2026 https://www.niradata.com/global-country-perceptions-2026 (From the above, following the link to free sample for USA data is very revealing. )
- Imustaskforhelp 5mo agoThanks the data is interesting. The net perception of US among its top trading partners being all negative seems a clear indicator. Sad that niradata has paywalled rest of the data because I was interested in the rabbit hole of comparing different countries. From the data: Across the 84 countries that evaluated the United States, 22 had a net positive perception, while 62 had a net negative perception. The average net perception of the United States is negative (-16), ranking #128 out of 132 countries.
- 5mo ago
- stuaxo 5mo agoIs this the "multipolar world" that Russia keeps talking about.
- jschveibinz 5mo agoWhile $3.6 billion is a big order, Boeing stock price is up 2% so the market (which has global participation) doesn't seem to view this as very negative in the short term?