46 ms·
Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests
- whyenot 1y agoI wish Kevin Drum were still here. I often didn't agree with his politics, but his blog posts were always insightful, and I wonder what he would say about our current situation.
- alexpotato 1y agoI didn't realize he had passed away. His posts were always insightful and it is indeed sad that he is no longer with us.
- wltr 1y agoI did not know him. Read his blog for a while, he was a decent man.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- DFHippie 1y ago[flagged]
- gnabgib 1y agoRelated: Trump deploys National Guard as Los Angeles protests against immigration agents (105 points, 2 days ago, 50 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44214230 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44214230 The National Guard Deployment in LA Is a Threat to Democracy (15 points, 7 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44230137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44230137 (Although you'd think 2000 National Guard troops would be enough without the 700 Marines)
- woodruffw 1y agoI don't think it's about the numbers at all -- he's seeing whether anybody will stop him from nakedly violating posse comitatus[1]. The President can of course dispatch the military for domestic law enforcement, but to do so he needs to establish a legal exception, like the Insurrection Act. That hasn't happened yet. [1]: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/posse-comitatus-act-explained https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/poss...
- crises-luff-6b 1y ago[flagged]
- maxerickson 1y agoThat's about deploying National Guard troops, not about deploying US Marines.
- woodruffw 1y agoThe text is indeed simple, and directly contradicts the President’s authority here: > Orders for these purposes shall be issued through the governors of the States or, in the case of the District of Columbia, through the commanding general of the National Guard of the District of Columbia. To surpass that, the president must declare an insurrection. But he’s done no such thing, since such a claim is nakedly indefensible. (This justification of course only applies to the national guard. The federal armed forces have even stronger guardrails.)
- crmd 1y agoI worry that, rather than de-escalation, one of the White House’s explicit goals here is to stage manage a Kent State-like demonstration of state force against left-wing activists that spreads to other cities. I sincerely hope I’m cynically wrong here.
- nodesocket 1y ago[flagged]
- mac3n 1y agolaw and order: arrests ignoring court orders and due process
- nodesocket 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- CamperBob2 1y ago"Law and order." ROFL. Where were you on January 6?
- perihelions 1y agoYou're not cynical; it's his plain, revealed character. He's been openly fantasizing about soldiers shooting protestors for years. He's asked his own defense secretary if he could do it for him, https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-defense-secretary https://www.npr.org/2022/05/09/1097517470/trump-esper-book-d... ("Former Pentagon chief Esper says Trump asked about shooting protesters")
- monero-xmr 1y ago[flagged]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- sh34r 1y agoI wonder how many civilians will be disappeared before a Dem governor finds their balls and musters the state militia. There’s millions of patriots out there just waiting for the call to action. This nonviolent shit will get you killed. MLK was a gun owner. If that kind of talk worries you, consider how much uglier it will be when the good people of LA form unregulated militias instead. Do you really want to see Ruby Ridge 2: Rooftop Korean boogaloo?
- tdeck 1y agoNewsom is too busy performatively harming homeless people and platforming fascists on his podcast to cook up anything like this.
- hackernoops 1y ago[flagged]
- protocolture 1y agoSounds good to me.
- wkat4242 1y agoI really don't think it would be a good idea to throw more guns into this mix. That will not help any protester and it will help Trump justify his decision to send the military, to his supporters. It will also escalate things. I'm sure most marines will be very hesitant to use force against unarmed American civilians. Half of them wouldn't even have voted for Trump. But if they're up against a militia all bets are off.
- DoodahMan 1y agoThe idea of unregulated blue state militias has me chuckling a bit, given how said states have largely neutered their citizen's ability to own capable rifles. We are to depend on our trusted local law enforcement to protect us, as well as our valiant governors who will assuredly call up local guards to do the same. Examples of brave, novel Democratic resistance to Trump abound these days. There's no need to worry!
- legitster 1y agoSoldiers, especially Marines, are trained to follow orders and kill. They are not specialists in de-escalation or crowd control. Here's hoping this is purely an optics play and they are only there to waste money and incite nationalism. Because if this escalates in any way and the US military turns on Americans, its hard to understate how bad things could get.
- smitty1e 1y agohttps://www.usmcu.edu/Research/Marine-Corps-History-Division/Information-for-Units/-Marine-Corps-Humanitarian-Operations/ https://www.usmcu.edu/Research/Marine-Corps-History-Division...
- acdha 1y agoI’m not sure that’s true any more. I know a few vets and it was definitely thought-provoking to hear a Marine who’d been in the thick of Fallujah react to some police shooting by noting that they had stricter rules about use of force because the top brass wanted to get the Iraqi people on their side.
- zzgo 1y agoI suspect that the current administration isn't concerned about winning the hearts and minds of Angelenos.
- acdha 1y agoVery true, but I don’t think there’s been enough time to completely reverse years of training.
- vrosas 1y agoYou suspect what is very obvious.
- leptons 1y agoEvery city in the US has illegal aliens, but how many ICE raids are making the news in places like St. Louis, or New Orleans, or Houston - no, they aren't sending ICE to red states like they are to California, they are focusing on Los Angeles for the purpose of fomenting unrest so they can enact martial law. That wouldn't be so cool for their supporters if red states had riots, but their supporters love seeing liberal California with a boot on its neck.
- jleyank 1y agoLet’s just hope Neil doesn’t have to update his lyrics. But, given as that’s probably the point of the exercise…
- pimlottc 1y agoWhat song are you referring to?
- mig39 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_(Crosby,_Stills,_Nash_%26_Young_song) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_(Crosby,_Stills,_Nash_%26...
- delgaudm 1y agoOhio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_(Crosby,_Stills,_Nash_%26_Young_song) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_(Crosby,_Stills,_Nash_%26...
- WarOnPrivacy 1y agoReminder that the authority under which the the US military is deployed against US citizens was intended to be used in exceptional (extreme) circumstances - ostensibly because no other options would suffice. The Insurrection Act authorizes the president to deploy military forces inside the United States to suppress rebellion or domestic violence or to enforce the law in certain situations. The statute implements Congress’s authority under the Constitution to "provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions." It is the primary exception to the Posse Comitatus Act, under which federal military forces are generally barred from participating in civilian law enforcement activities. ref: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/insurrection-act-explained https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/insu... This is the heaviest hammer in the toolbox. Deploying it against citizens he doesn't like because he resents their message is a historical display of bad character and is profoundly unethical in a way that the harshest adjectives struggle to reflect.
- crises-luff-6b 1y ago[flagged]
- locopati 1y agoDo you approve of the way ICE is going about their business? What I see is Gestapo-like behavior that deserves protest, which is being responded to with unnecessarily violent force by ICE.
- WarOnPrivacy 1y ago> Here's the actual text[1], it's pretty clear. There's nothing in the text that suggests it is appropriate to preemptively deploy US military in response to protests, not even because the administration deems protestors to be enemies. Narratives in support of preemptively deploying the military against protesters are all crafted justifications, each built after the act has been decided on. What's left to for apologists to do is to choose whether to own the methods and intentions or mirror the administration's disingeniousness.
- hypeatei 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- spacemadness 1y ago[flagged]
- awnird 1y ago[flagged]
- TheAlchemist 1y agoYeah, people take democracy for granted. As a result, we have people like Trump and Musk, both narcissists and sociopaths, at the White House. Growing up, I dreamed about going to US, but was born on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain. As I got older and visited the country, it somewhat cooled my dreamed (Europe progressed dramatically in the meantime). And now I feel a bit nostalgic and disoriented to be honest - what I once regarded as the country with the highest standards of ethics, integrity and rule of law, is unfortunately proving once again that no empire lasts forever. Of course it's a bit too soon as the US is still a superpower, but it definitely feels like the tide turned and really quickly.
- jhanschoo 1y agoWhat news source calls these protests riots though?
- aaomidi 1y agoFreedom fighter vs terrorists. The state will always use loaded language to change public opinion.
- orwin 1y ago[flagged]
- tdeck 1y agoWhen I Google BF60 I get a boat motor. What does it mean in this context?
- mohaine 1y agoGuessing this: https://www.firework-shop.de/BF60S-Handlichtfackel-Signalfackel-rot-60-Sek-Xplode::104537.html?srsltid=AfmBOopwZ2-QyP3-38hwknrYOMhzAcaQlOa9HgrIblweJ_-3Z78jnrGR https://www.firework-shop.de/BF60S-Handlichtfackel-Signalfac...
- tdeck 1y agoThanks! So it's a German road flare. No way I would have found that.
- unethical_ban 1y agoWe need more like you to teach how to do this right. I tell my friends that we need to look to Hong Kong and France in case the protests move to Texas.
- giardini 1y agoIn Texas, if you drop rocks on someone or destroy their property, they are, in many instances, free to use deadly force to stop you. Such "protests" would be much rarer and shorter in Texas.
- unethical_ban 1y agoYou'd have police shoot into a crowd of people because rocks got thrown? edit: I got throttled, as is the case on HN when things get "active". Here is my response to koolba: --- At a head? Sure. Do I think police can get rough and "in it" with civilians without live fire and without the use of the US Military? Yes. Do I think, when a sufficient bloc of a city rebels against its law enforcement, then maybe the law enforcement should reconsider what they're enforcing? Also yes. I disagree with the premise that the State is always right and that their monopoly on violence is absolute. We celebrate the US revolution and revolutions across the world when governments act illegally and against the will of the people, violating civil rights. I would not support firing into a crowd of people because of minor property damage.
- bix6 1y agoThis is terrifying and unconscionable. Hard to believe this is the USA today. I don’t really see this de-escalating given the ongoing rhetoric but I hope I’m wrong.
- steve76 1y ago[dead]
- vasco 1y agoI'm not american but I remember marines being mobilized for hurricane Katrina in New Orleans too. Funny that if it's so bad to deploy them, why is it OK to deploy them in other countries?
- bolster8505 1y agoBeing deployed to help in a disaster is very different from being deployed to quell protests.
- MaxHoppersGhost 1y agoThey're not being deployed to quell protests they're being deployed to guard federal buildings from protesters.
- aceazzameen 1y ago[flagged]
- MaxHoppersGhost 1y agoICE agents are deporting people here illegally. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
- unsnap_biceps 1y ago
- vjvjvjvjghv 1y agoThis is probably an unpopular opinion but I would like politicians on the left to speak up about the rioting and burning of stuff at the current protests and also the Tesla and George Floyd protests. It doesn’t help the cause if we allow some assholes to destroy stuff. Basically they are giving people like Trump an excuse to deploy force and a lot of people will agree. I can’t see what is achieved by burning cars and stores.
- hobs 1y ago[flagged]
- hackernoops 1y ago[flagged]
- protocolture 1y agoWhats respectable?
- ekidd 1y ago> This is probably an unpopular opinion but I would like politicians on the left to speak up about the rioting and burning of stuff at the current protests and also the Tesla and George Floyd protests. I mean, Gavin Newsom just did a long interview from a "crisis center" where he did exactly that, today. And plenty of Democratic politicians also speak against violent protests whenever they occur. But unless you actually pay pretty close attention to what Democratic politicians actually say, you won't hear these statements. Fox doesn't cover Democratic politicians speaking against violence. And frankly, if there's a 99.9% peaceful protest with one burning car, the media will devote 80% of their coverage to the burning car, and maybe a few sentences to politicians saying the burning car is bad. The media is unfortunately interested in spectacle and entertainment. I pay more attention than average to what politicians of both parties say, and it's kind of hilarious how often I hear "Why didn't so-and-so say X?" (uh, they do every week or two), or "I never believed so-and-so would do Y" (uh, they literally promised Y on the campaign trail). I don't know how to fix this.
- absurdo 1y ago[flagged]
- unethical_ban 1y agoWhether or not someone supports the current topic of the mostly peaceful and somewhat rebellious and violent protests, this much is clear. You either support somewhat violent protests, regardless of topic, expecting that law enforcement and civilians will handle it amongst themselves, or you are authoritarian and demand that the federal government intervene with the US Armed Forces the moment someone throws a rock at a cop car. This is an abomination, and anyone who supports the deployment of troops in my opinion lacks the values I thought were universal in this country. (To support this action by Trump is to say you don't support the second amendment, on the grounds that the people should never have the power to subvert the state).
- hackernoops 1y ago[flagged]
- unethical_ban 1y agoLack of engagement with the premise.
- msgodel 1y ago>lacks values I really hated when Fox news would say things like this and I hate it when individuals do. It makes it impossible for us to communicate. Just because the other side doesn't share your values doesn't mean they have none. You might say their values are evil. That's a different discussion, but they're rarely just reacting blindly.
- unethical_ban 1y agoI didn't say they lacked values. They clearly value authority and order above all else. I'm saying they lack the values I grew up believing were universal in this country.
- mindslight 1y ago> They clearly value authority and order above all else No, they do not even get to claim order any more. This situation is being escalated by Trump in order to have a raging crisis for him to attack and drive even more division. Just like he did to the 2A/BLM protests, just like he did with the election lies culminating in the J6 protests, just like he did with his appalling anti-leadership throughout Covid. Trump doesn't possess the skills to actually tackle problems. His only real skill is slithering away from blame after he creates chaos and destruction. The fascists' only real value is now naked autocratic "strong" man authoritarianism. And the only reason they're still clinging to caring about the law is to assuage their own egos that the suffering they're reveling in is somehow justified.
- 3eb7988a1663 1y agoWasn't this roughly spelled out in Project 2025?
- an0malous 1y agoWhat was spelled out? Can you elaborate?
- aredox 1y agoFlashback: For years, the Insurrection Act has loomed large in the minds of Trump and his conservative allies. - In the summer of 2020, as Trump privately fumed over nationwide Black Lives Matter protests, White House aides drafted a proclamation to send thousands of active-duty U.S. troops into the streets. - Trump ultimately was talked down by Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Mark Milley and Defense Secretary Mark Esper, but he has publicly expressed regret over not acting more forcefully. - Top Trump allies, including architects of the far-right roadmap "Project 2025," have at various points called for using the Insurrection Act to secure the border, preempt Inauguration Day protests, and even subvert the 2020 election. https://www.axios.com/2025/06/10/los-angeles-protests-trump-insurrection-act https://www.axios.com/2025/06/10/los-angeles-protests-trump-...
- yahway 1y agoI originally turned to HN to get away from politics, so it's disappointing to see one of the last remaining refuges being overtaken
- MaxHoppersGhost 1y ago[flagged]
- 0_____0 1y agoThere's a little button called "hide" next to each post on the frontpage.
- DoktorDelta 1y agoYou cannot "get away" from politics. Burying your head in the sand will not insulate you from what is happening.
- darkmighty 1y agoPlato: "One of the penalties of refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." I don't love the phrasing of inferiors, but at least evil certainly applies. (Well thought out, well informed) Politics is a duty not a luxury.
- ThrowawayR2 1y agoWhat is the point of encouraging more people to participate in politics when that increases the chances of your party losing? From a relatively recent analysis of polls at https://archive.is/kbwom https://archive.is/kbwom "The reality is if all registered voters had turned out, then Donald Trump would’ve won the popular vote by 5 points [instead of 1.7 points]. So, I think that a 'we need to turn up the temperature and mobilize everyone' strategy would’ve made things worse." That's from a Democratic analyst, not a Republican one. The Republicans are rubbing their hands together and cackling every time one of you claims "everything is political" or "politics is a duty" because it just helps them win elections.
- 1y ago
- lenerdenator 1y ago[flagged]
- WatchDog 1y agoI'm not American, thus I had no vote in the election, nor do I like Trump for a number of reasons. However, enforcement of immigration laws has been one of the biggest parts of his election platform, if not the central part(build the wall, etc). I imagine his voters are happy to see some action being taken. The protestors could really do with some better optics, destroying property and waving foreign flags is just going to increase approval for military action. If the protestors had instead marched peacefully with American flags, it would have been a much better PR win.
- vkou 1y ago> However, enforcement of immigration laws has been one of the biggest parts of his election platform Then this would be a great time for him to start following them. Many of his actions this year have been in violation of immigration laws. Incredibly brazen violation of them, in fact.
- anon84873628 1y agoI'm so tired of hearing this type of thing. "If the protesters would simply protest correctly, then I would respect them." News flash. The opposition is always going to say something like this to set an impossible bar for the protestors. This type of thinking undermines all protests, protects the status quo, and basically boils down to victim blaming. Not to mention you can always have false flag operatives undermining a movement.
- speakfreely 1y agoDo you really think MLK Jr. didn't want to punch those cops in the face that were beating people at his marches? But he had emotional IQ, discipline, and effective organization. The current crop lacks all of that and the results are showing it.
- neuroelectron 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- MaxHoppersGhost 1y ago[flagged]
- khazhoux 1y agoAnd how will they protect? When a protester throws a rock at a federal building’s window. Or when they run towards the fed building with a can of spray paint. Will the Marines merely deploy harsh language?
- MaxHoppersGhost 1y ago[flagged]
- tangue 1y agoYou can prevent that without using the army. A country using its army against its own people is not a thing a democratic country does.
- charcircuit 1y ago>is not a thing a democratic country does. It is if the majority want it to be done.
- saintkaye 1y agoWas there a vote taken on this that I missed?
- decremental 1y ago[dead]
- charcircuit 1y agoNot every decision by the US government is made democratically. Sometimes a delegate is voted upon. In this case last year a new commander and chief of the US military was voted in who has this power.
- daft_pink 1y agoI lived through the BLM protests in a liberal city. They let them destroy everything, then they called in the National Guard to stop looting that already happened. Everyone’s okay with peaceful protests, but they should call in the national guard and prosecute people for violence. You might hate Trump, but in my previous experience, it’s the residents of the most liberal districts that suffer all the consequences of this nonsense.
- khazhoux 1y agoNow, did they really destroy “everything”?
- brewdad 1y agoOf course. You’ve never heard of the lost city of Neverhappenda?
- 0_____0 1y agoOakland had some boarded up windows for a while around then. The destruction of the window of the Chase branch in downtown was indeed complete, I think people might have broken it twice.
- daft_pink 1y agoHonestly in 2020, I went to an open grocery store, a little bit outside the city center, the next day and I'm riding in the elevator to the grocery store and there is this black elderly man from the poor area of the city riding with me and we get out and it's closed, and he's like "Oh Man, they destroyed all the grocery stores in my neighborhood." Was literally everything destroyed, no, but I've got photographs of small businesses boarded up with they already looted everything, please don't loot again. There was devastation throughout the city. After everything happened, national guard trucks showed up and guarded the devastation. If you drive out to the wealthy burbs, it's like nothing happened. They devastated one of the most liberal parts of America. Congrats.
- anon84873628 1y agoLA had plenty of local police to handle the scale of the protests (it's something like 88 different jurisdictions in the whole region). Of the 2000 national guard deployed, only 300 have actually been operationalized. There was hardly any looting or rioting. Certainly not more than could be handled locally. Trump is doing this to deliberately escalate the situation.
- khazhoux 1y agoSeems to me that sending the USMC to protect a burning Waymo is a bit of an overreaction.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- MaxHoppersGhost 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- speakfreely 1y agoYes, but their performative purpose is to create the illusion that the situation is out of the control of the civilian authorities.
- MaxHoppersGhost 1y agoHave you seen the photos? The situation is out of control. Cops were hiding under bridges while their cars are destroyed by rocks and Molotov cocktails. It’s a shitshow.
- komali2 1y agoA problem easily solved by the cops simply leaving. The cops escalated every situation they arrived at.
- speakfreely 1y agoActually, if a mob of angry people is setting my car on fire, I'd prefer that the cops don't leave.
- 1y ago
- kazinator 1y agoWhy doesn't Trump just send in the same goons that marched for him on the capitol.
- lysp 1y agoThey are already, in masked ICE uniforms
- mindslight 1y ago[flagged]
- kmarc 1y agoAs a Hungarian, told my friends in November: "the election results, Project 2025, the newly elected president, etc... is the same old story we have already seen with Orban 10+y ago. But don't worry, the US has a much better established democracy, shit can't really go as wrong as in Eastern-Europe" Well, I'm not so sure about that last part anymore.
- barrenko 1y agoI used to think that the quote "Elections have consequences." is much much more benign.
- input_sh 1y agoAs someone born just south of the Hungarian border, I feel it is important to point out just how quickly election integrity deteriorates afterwards. Or to quote Serbian president's freudian slip (from just two days ago): "Every living soul in Kosjerić [small town that held municipal elections] came out to vote against us, but we still managed to win." It is fucking bullshit how a country can spend decades building up its democratic institutions and all it takes is one opportunist to get elected once to undo it all and solidify himself into power for the next 15ish years. And then after they finally leave, you have to start all over again from scratch.
- mrtksn 1y agoAt some point the "If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal" quote went popular among the leftists. At the same time the right wing were convinced that elections are rigged. Turns out it's all BS. Unless it already deteriorated, and no it has not deteriorated in most of the world, votes do count and you live with the outcome which may include the eventual reality of vites stop counting. It's very weird, I can't form an opinion if its a psyop or just how the societies work.
- jxjnskkzxxhx 1y agoThere's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state. The other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.
- Aeolun 1y ago> The other serves and protects the people. I think you’d already kinda lost this? Cops seem to mostly serve themselves?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> One fights the enemies of the state "At stake is a fundamental component of the framework of US constitutional democracy. It begins with the principle, enshrined in law, that military forces exist to protect the country from existential threats — such as an invasion or rebellion — not to enforce the law. Most fundamentally, the founders of the American republic understood very clearly that concentrated military power, loyal to a single man, could be used to achieve total control by that person. And they had a historical example in mind: Rome — a republic governed by the people and the Senate — was transformed into an empire ruled by an emperor as a result of the Roman army being turned against its citizens." https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2025-06-09/trump-s-national-guard-deployment-is-a-threat-to-democracy https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2025-06-09/trump-...
- kpw94 1y ago> military forces exist to protect the country from existential threats — such as an invasion or rebellion — not to enforce the law. serious question: are Countries such as Italy, France etc not a democracy? All of them are, verbatim from wikipedia, "a military force with law enforcement duties among the civilian population.". Ditto for spain Guardia Civil, and many of the countries listed in that same wiki page: Algeria, Netherlands, Poland, Argentina, Romania, Turkey, Ukraine, Chile, France, Italy, Portugal, Spain, ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendarmerie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendarmerie
- Larrikin 1y agoIf illegal immigration is such a problem, why not fine businesses 5x salary for using the labor, for as long as it was used? There are a lot of systems in place to verify working status at this point. It eliminates any incentive to hire this cheaper labor willing to work for lower wages. The people coming will be coming for a variety of reasons but it won't be to take the jobs of the uneducated Americans
- seanmcdirmid 1y agoThis is what Canada mostly does and it’s super effective, the problem is that the people who employ illegal immigrants: farmers, construction contractors, hotel owners, etc…belong to the same party pushing against illegal immigration, they would basically be punishing themselves, so it isn’t going to happen.
- Symmetry 1y agoI think the real reason is that Trump feels that the illegal immigration issue generates votes for him so actually solving it is the last thing he wants to do.
- lazide 1y agoThis has been true of every major policy ‘lock in’ topic for both parties for at least a decade, if not more. Gun control, abortion, immigration (legal and illegal), taxation/gov’t spending, affirmative action (aka DEI), etc. Trump is really good at pushing buttons and generating outrage though. Not unexpected for a reality TV show star.
- larrled 1y agoIt’s sad how addicted people are to his button pushing. I’ve got an elderly family member with dementia who can’t go more than 2 hours without watching a outrage video about Trump. You know the ones on YouTube, still doing hourly updates on russiagate and other “legal analysis” around Trump prosecutions, still. She lost much of her life savings because these YouTube “experts” explained how Trump would crash the market when in actuality, from 2016 to today, the market has actually gone up. A lot. Thanks medias touch or whoever it is for destroying the sanity and financial security of so many American seniors. What a business model.
- csours 1y agoAhead of time, and from the inside, it looks and sounds like 'restoring proper order'. Afterwards, and from the outside, it looks and sounds like ... well read some history about attempts to 'restore proper order'. The outcome and progression is entirely and sadly predictable. It's been about 80 years since WWII. Are we doomed to repeat this on an 80 year cycle, when the last generation who went through this passes from the scene?
- RangerScience 1y agoYes. AFAIK, this is exactly the (theoretical) cause for the "doomed to repeat it" effect of "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - the death of the last generation who remembers it from the previous iteration. So - maybe not doomed to an 80 year cycle, as life expectancy changes, and/or as cultural memory changes due to more/better records. But in broad strokes... yes.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- csomar 1y agoAs someone who got advice when I was younger and got older; I think we are doomed to not learn anything from history. This might explain the persistence of religion: Here are a set of rules that kind of worked, just follow them blindly and religiously. The current US generation didn't go to a full blown war; and the US did little infighting in the previous decade (that requires mass mobilization). Think about it this way: Trump wants to lower the interest rate and ease monetary policy in good times. Putin maintain high rates despite him having a full blown war. Trump has never experienced hyper-inflation but Putin did.
- Izkata 1y ago> Are we doomed to repeat this on an 80 year cycle, when the last generation who went through this passes from the scene? Have fun reading about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generatio...
- 1y ago
- a0-prw 1y agoLots of very vocal yankees thought it was great when "pro-democracy" protesters in Hong Kong waved American flags and firebombed police and public buildings. That went on for about 6 months, if I recall. Karma's a bitch, America. P.s. China never deployed the military in the Hong Kong insurrection.
- hulitu 1y ago> Marines being mobilized in response to LA protests Finally, the American people fights for democracy, after centuries of oppresion. /s
- notepad0x90 1y agoPolitics aside, LA just can't seem to catch a break. Floods last year, fires earlier this year and now this. That said, what the current administration is doing is almost like they're following a manual other countries followed on their road to nationalistic decline and all the right people in places of power seem to know this. I wonder if they're ready for it? My observation is that the previous administration had four years to pass laws and measures based on trump's first four years and they didn't, which tells me there is really no stopping what is to come. The planned decline of America won't be like other countries because of post-WW2 "super power" repositioning of country and it's critical role in global trade, communications and finance. All of humanity might suffer, at least that's my fear. On the other hand, I like to think that if things turn sour and gruesome very fast, the American public might react to that well enough to make a u-turn.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> LA just can't seem to catch a break. Floods last year, fires earlier this year and now this I'm in LA right now. If I didn't read the news I wouldn't know anything is up.
- hunglee2 1y agoThe irony is that one of the main rails upon which the MAGA train rides is States rights. But then, Trump was always going to be a rule breaker, not least to his own supporters, in the end all that will be left will be absolute fealty to the chief
- JumpCrisscross 1y agoDoes Newsom have the right to defederalize the National Guard? Put another way, who is currently the supreme commander of the California National Guard?
- jxjnskkzxxhx 1y ago> The irony is that one of the main rails upon which the MAGA train rides is States rights. No it's not. They just like slavery. If it was about states rights they wouldn't support sending in the military. What I find shocking about comments like yours is the reminder that propaganda works. Someone in the republican party decided "guys, advocating for slavery openly doesn't go over well, let's tell them it's actually about states rights", and loads of people actually believed it.
- LightHugger 1y ago[flagged]
- BryantD 1y agoHuh. The most recent Democratic Presidential nominee was clear that she supported comprehensive immigration reform, seeking pathways to citizenship for immigrants in the U.S. without legal status, with a faster track for people living in the country illegally who arrived as children. So sort of not without legal status at all. And as one might not realize given the rhetoric, border crossings in 2024 plummeted (although not reaching pre-pandemic levels) thanks to increased arrests on the US side of the border and more efforts from Mexico to control the flow of refugees.
- 1y ago
- DidYaWipe 1y ago[flagged]
- jxjnskkzxxhx 1y ago> And the wrong people have most of the guns. Ironically, those people were right about that aspect.
- DidYaWipe 1y agoWhat "aspect" of what?
- jxjnskkzxxhx 1y agoWhen there's a lot of chaos in society, it's useful that your faction has the most guns. Lefties go "constitution is outdated, you can't beat tanks with rifles, therefore having guns is useless". Reality isn't that black and white tho. If your faction has the most guns you might not even have to use them.
- DidYaWipe 1y agoI don't know who you mean by "lefties," but I don't hear anybody staking their ideology on "the Constitution is outdated." Except, notably, the orange RINO-in-chief. And it's "though," FYI.
- jxjnskkzxxhx 1y agohttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tho https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tho
- wellthisisgreat 1y agoany ex-marines here? how would they actually take to the orders that everyone's worried about? "no questions asked"?
- mrj 1y agoYeah. So.. a big chunk of the Marine Corps are hard-right Trump supporters but not nearly all. The Marines are different in that the leadership is steeped in the history and tradition of the Corps from the start of bootcamp. They will know they can be punished for following illegal orders, and they will already know about the last time Marines were called into LA. In the end, it will come down to SNCOs and NCOs to make the decision because the Marines try to push down "battlefield" decisions to as close to the action as possible. Of any service, I expect your average Marine to be able to make independent decisions in the moment. That may or may not be a good thing.
- CapricornNoble 1y agoMarine officer here (Reservist). The officer corps has a LOT of careerist yes-men, if the enforcement of COVID vaccinations is anything to go by. I know a surprising number of Catholic Marines who refused to get COVID vaccinations and had to deal with significant pressures from senior officers over it. I'm not confident that commanders will refuse orders on the basis that they consider them illegal. EDIT: That said, I concur with my sibling comment that decisions are very much pushed down to the NCO/SNCO on the ground, and I expect that those young Sergeants might actually have more sense and restraint than the O-5s and O-6s (battalion and regiment commanders). Also, military demographics are changing....I bet (but can't confirm with hard data right now) that there is a substantial growth in Hispanics in the combat arms compared to ~30 years ago. I had a female Corporal working for me once who's hometown was Sinaloa (yes, cartel Sinaloa). I think even normally "eager to engage the enemy" Marines will be more restrained about escalating to violence against their own demographics.
- int_19h 1y agoI think the more interesting question is what happens when the right-wing paramilitaries (Three Percenters, Oath Keepers, and various assorted local militias) step in, if Trump gives the military orders to stand aside and let them do whatever.
- golemiprague 1y ago[dead]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- xeornet 1y ago[flagged]
- shakna 1y agoThe police shot a foreign reporter, on camera, standing nowhere near the protesters. What part of that behaviour is seeking to control, and not escalate?
- xeornet 1y ago[flagged]
- jusssi 1y agoYou seem to be new here, so I tell you how it works (I didn't downvote, I'm just here to eat popcorn and watch the birth of another Russia): Low effort top level comments on hot topics are downvote bait. Why it's low effort: You claim things are out of control for the police. You don't explain why, or how this is different from previous situations when marines were not needed. It just reads as a +1 post.
- isleyaardvark 1y agoThe LAPD opposes the Marine deployment: https://newrepublic.com/post/196357/lapd-slams-trump-decision-marines-protests https://newrepublic.com/post/196357/lapd-slams-trump-decisio...
- ringeryless 1y ago[flagged]
- rwyinuse 1y agoIt's funny how so many Americans claim having loose gunrights is necessary to guarantee a free state, and protection against a federal army. Now same people have elected a government that really tries its best to turn that free state into an authoritarian dictatorship, using American military as its tool. We'll see how far Project 2025 will go within Trump's term. I'm not optimistic.
- CMay 1y agoEverything is a constitutional crisis now, because nobody really knows what a constitutional crisis is. We're just numbing people down and normalizing the words until they mean nothing, because we aren't using them when they really matter. The details of this do not seem like they warrant calling it a constitutional crisis. When we actually face one, there won't be words we can use to describe it anymore, because we've wasted them.
- e40 1y agoDJT just talked about arresting Newsom. When asked why by reporters he said because he was a bad governor. We can bury our heads all we want, but this seems like a constitutional crisis to me. Said another way, hiw many signs do we have to ignore before we call it one?
- CMay 1y agoWhat you're talking about is the rhetoric and politics surrounding the current times as opposed to the reality. Trump says a lot of things and he is a man of action, so that makes him a credible threat whenever he says he's going to do something. At the same time, it's pretty normal that whatever he does goes through a team of lawyers first. This is convenient for Trump, because anything he says that people get riled up about ends up discrediting them as ridiculous, because the reality ends up being less surprising. In the US you can only be president so long as you remain within an operable window of reasonability, which Trump remains within despite his character. Now, does that mean you just ignore the rhetoric and stop paying attention to let it normalize in your mind so that when something actually bad happens it can just feel like a minor iteration rather than a shocking leap? No. That said, the rhetoric is the rhetoric and the reality is the reality. Trump also said to lock Hillary up, yet that never happened. Sure, you shouldn't have to be a constitutional lawyer or understand entirely how the country works to get a decent sense for what's really happening, but ideally high quality journalists help fill that role to contextualize important events, grounding viewers in reality. The problem is that people get so much of their news from entertainment comedy shows and emotional opinion shows now rather than actual boring (good boring) journalistic media. It becomes celebrity clickbait.
- CobrastanJorji 1y agoBecause the CNN article seems to have accidentally omitted it, allow me to paste the full text of 18 U.S. Code § 1385, the Posse Comitatus Act: > Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, or the Space Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
- TiredOfLife 1y ago[flagged]
- spencerflem 1y ago[flagged]
- shard972 1y ago[dead]
- Majestic121 1y agoDon't be over-dramatic, the comment is downvoted to death and every response is against it.
- spencerflem 1y agoYou're probably right. (Though fwiw when I left the comment I was the only response and it was not downvoted) But it just makes me so sad. I think I ought to delete my account. Every time anything US politics-y comes up, especially the supreme court, the comments are filled with such horrible takes. It makes me feel like, if this is the sort of world the people here want and its so different from what I hope for, what common ground do we have. Why should I care about, idk retrocomputers or WASM OSes etc. if its just to be part of a group that's like this. Idk, same sort of angst about doing anything on a computer these days. I get embarrassed telling people what I do. People in general seem to hate programmers and the more I go on the more I think they're right. Idk blehjj, just in a bad mood sorry for ranting. Thanks for the comment, honestly
- internet_points 1y agohttps://bsky.app/profile/iwillnotbesilenced.bsky.social/post/3lr3v7gc4js2n https://bsky.app/profile/iwillnotbesilenced.bsky.social/post... The galaxy is watching.
- sam345 1y agoSo what is the complaint that tear gas was used? It's used all the time it's a normal crowd control measure. The galaxy is watching? Please.
- regularjack 1y agoI don't think people sitting in traffic qualify as a crowd that needs control.
- justinrubek 1y agoThis is not justification in itself. It's abused as a crowd control measure frequently. This rendition doesn't gain some special immunity to that abuse.
- laurent_du 1y agoFunny that this "proud Mexican" has such a long story to tell but zero proof to show. Neither he nor his girlfriend were able to record any of that while sitting comfortably in their car?
- johnnyanmac 1y agoWe're on Hacker News and complaining that people don't want to record their entire lives on the internet?
- bradley13 1y agoUsing the National Guard is clearly justified. Using the national military (in the case, the Marines) is...highly questionable. That said, California should have been on top of this situation. It looks like Newsom is willing to sacrifice the safety of his citizens in an attempt to score political points.
- OkayPhysicist 1y agoThe protests were all but entirely peaceful (as in, no more violent than your typical sports celebration) until the National Guard showed up. Newsom's far from my favorite person, but his handling of this situation was spot on, and he's bang on the money about deploying troops being a gross escalation.
- spacechild1 1y ago> Using the National Guard is clearly justified. WTF? How was this justified?
- z0A0Q0I8lSmC 1y ago[flagged]
- AStonesThrow 1y ago[dead]
- bigbacaloa 1y ago[dead]
- seydor 1y ago"Putin does it, ergo I can do it"
- hypeatei 1y agoIf this is an "invasion" then Trump should invoke Article 5 against all nations where the illegal immigrants originate from.
- technothrasher 1y agoArticle 5 isn't invoked "against" anybody. It is a call for help from a NATO member after being attacked, which each other member state can respond to by taking "such action as it deems necessary." Trump could certainly invoke Article 5, but the likely response from other NATO members would be, "no action necessary."
- typeofhuman 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- pvdebbe 1y agoQuestion from outsider: if a Marine uses lethal force against a civilian in this case, in what court will he be tried?
- technothrasher 1y agoOutside of military installations, a member of the US military may be subject to prosecution for any crimes committed under both civilian criminal law and the UCMJ. DUI is the most common scenario for this.
- sph 1y agoThe one with the marsupials.
- HideousKojima 1y agoThey'll be prosecuted by Kevin Bacon, with Tom Cruise as their defense attorney, and with Jack Nicholson giving a rousing testimony in which he confesses that he is the one who gave the order to the marines to commit the crime.
- wewewedxfgdf 1y agoOnly in LA though.
- parsimo2010 1y agoThe way this is usually handled with smaller crimes (DUI) is that the local civilian court gets “dibs” but the military installation can ask to discipline someone under the military system (Uniform Code of Military Justice, UCMJ). Usually the locals are happy to let a military person be disciplined by the military. It keeps the burden off the civilian system, which usually has plenty of other cases to get through. Plus, the military can do things that the civilian court can’t, like reducing a person’s rank. If the civilian court wants to make an example out of the military member they can opt to keep the case in their court. This can happen if the crime was egregious or there are some other circumstances. Plus, any additional civil suit brought by a victim or their family will always be a civilian lawsuit. There are times where things are different- in particular, there are times in which something is only a crime in one system but not the other. You can be court-martialled for failing to follow orders, but this is not a civilian crime. In terms of shooting a civilian, it probably depends on the circumstances. If the Marine was given an order to shoot and had some legitimate feeling reason to do so in the moment, the military would probably do their best to protect the marine, but it would probably be a civilian court trying them (the military won’t take a case if they don’t intend to follow through). Note that for this to be the case, there is probably now an officer who gave an illegal order and the officer would probably be tried for a crime. But there are conceivable ways in which a marine can shoot someone under lawful orders and not really have done anything wrong- self defense is the likely scenario. If a protestor starts shooting a gun toward a marine then they will get return fire. If the marine were to disregard his orders and shoot someone because he’s trigger happy, then the military is probably going to ask to take the case, throw him in prison for life while demoting him down to E1 (the lowest rank), and generally ruin his life as much as they can. They really crack down on this kind of thing because they rely on discipline to make things work. Marines are generally trained to do as they are told, no matter how much it sucks. And marines that don’t do as they’re told get examples made out of them so that everyone else knows to follow orders. At least that’s what would have happened in the past, but with the current president who knows how it would turn out. Because the state may choose not to let the case go- the president can pardon a federal/military crime, but not state crimes. So California might keep the case because then the president couldn’t let him off easy.
- Ylpertnodi 1y agoDon't forget the Epstein files, whilst all the current events play out.
- typeofhuman 1y ago[flagged]
- bigyabai 1y agoElon has a working relationship with the Israelis. If any of what you said is even remotely true, then why would Musk betray the Mossad to expose a sitting president? Why can't Trump go to Bibi and make him admit to fielding a (now dead) operative and exonerate the case entirely? That makes no sense. If you want to manufacture a wholesale lie like this, at least make it believable. I know it's hard to grapple with the fact that America elected a pedophile and convicted rapist as it's president, but you'll need more than tough words to blame it on Israel.
- typeofhuman 1y ago> Musk... expose a sitting president? Well he didn't expose him did he? You fell into a trap of cognitive dissonance. What Musk said was, "[Trump] is in the Epstein files." While this is already well known, what we don't know and what wasn't said was to what _degree_ Trump is in them. Musk is well-known for falsely accusing people he's upset with of being a pedo. Yet he didn't go that far this time. If Trump was in any compromising situation in the Epstein files we would have known about it already. The Democrats and intelligence community would not have needed the fake dossier, fake hooker allegations, Russian collosion hoax, or any of their other tricks.
- bdangubic 1y agomust be amazing living in this kind of fantasy world, I envy this…
- 1y ago
- spwa4 1y agoI always find it difficult to understand how the press sometimes misunderstands cause and effect. While this military intervention is being implemented now, it's not like there weren't protests before, or in other cities (including Trump's native New York). What happened immediately before Trump started sending in armed groups to the streets of Los Angeles was Trump getting credibly accused by Elon Musk of associating with Jeffrey Epstein. So the correct title here is "Marines deployed to LA in response to Trump's association with paedophile Jeffrey Epstein being widely discussed on Twitter". This allows people to correctly infer cause and effect, and most importantly, intent.
- bufferoverflow 1y ago[flagged]
- typeofhuman 1y ago[flagged]
- kj4211cash 1y agoHmm... as someone who lives in LA... I think your news stream is polluted. There were maybe 100 bad actors. Responding to people in military gear vanishing day labourers and fruit sellers and seamstresses. Bringing in 10,000 National Guard and 1,000 Marines is not an appropriate response.
- bufferoverflow 1y ago[flagged]
- f38zf5vdt 1y ago50 people raiding a Nike store in LA isn't even beyond local news lol... you can find hundreds of videos online of this happening on a regular basis for the past decade. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/group-50-people-shoplift-100k-luxury-items-l-mall-used-bear-spray-guar-rcna99598 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/group-50-people-shoplif...
- Ylpertnodi 1y ago>Last time they were allowed to riot, they caused a ridiculous amount of damage. As a non-US, was that Jan 6th, you're talking about, or is there something else you're referring to that i could look up?
- bufferoverflow 1y agoI am against Jan 6th riots too. You seem to think that one action 4 years ago justifies your violence forever.
- gmerc 1y agoThe hapless imperial waymo droids summoned into the middle of the uprising to provide the right visuals are a nice touch. "Who Are You? LA Edition"
- FrustratedMonky 1y agoMade up and staged need for troops. Check. Hyped antagonism between both sides on purpose. Check. Remember Ghorman
- major505 1y agoNot everything you dont like is nazism. Burning the city? Check Incopetent mayor not doing its job? check Incopetent governor watching the caos unfold? Check.
- aaronbaugher 1y ago[flagged]
- major505 1y agoagreed. And they alse benefited the business of several friends and canpaing donnors who use the cheap labor of this imigrants.
- FrustratedMonky 1y agoThe Ministry of Enlightenment is doing its job well. "We made the story. We shaped it. We blew it up. We decided when it was over. With the right ideas planted in the right markets, in the right sequence, we can now weaponize this galactic opinion." ―Dee Shambo[1] Now that the people that believe in QAnon are in power, they have 100x resources to spread disinformation. When conspiracy theorist are the ones in power, is it really a conspiracy anymore? It is policy.
- major505 1y ago[flagged]
- FrustratedMonky 1y ago
- Hilift 1y agoCalifornia has 25% of the 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the US. Last year, while Biden attempted to promote an immigration bill that did not pass, California made Medicaid available to unauthorized immigrants. 22% of California residents are on Medicaid, requiring $85 billion per year in matching federal assistance. Now the state has a $12 billion deficit projection for 2026. Los Angeles city recently issued bonds to fund a $1 billion budget gap for the current year. It didn't take long to speed run all that success into the ground with a few criminals that hijack protests and destroyed over $1 million in taxpayer funds in destroyed city vehicles. Half the people cheering this on will probably be unemployed in a few months.
- major505 1y agoThe problem is that people think that because they have a degree they will not be affect by the illegal imigration crisis. They think this is a problem only for blue collar workers, that they cannot empathize with.
- righthand 1y ago11 million is less than 5% of the population. What immigration crises? Less than 5% is a working system.
- aaronbaugher 1y agoWe've been hearing "11 million" for decades. No one really knows what the number is because no one in charge of finding out has wanted to know, but it's far higher.
- righthand 1y agoNo it’s not. We know, we can calculate just like we can calculate the population from the census even though not everyone fills it out. You are a disgusting person spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt. You’ve got zero proof of that and are trying to revert my comment to spread your fear campaign.
- sam345 1y agoExactly why is this HN appropriate? Nothing that is not already in the papers and nothing particularly interesting to the HN crowd per guidelines. I came here for HN and I got reddit. "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- bendigedig 1y agoI think it's interesting to see how much panic, head burying, and fascist apologia there is around.
- anonfordays 1y ago[flagged]
- jl6 1y agoIt's clear that many commenters here are operating from completely different factual bases, in terms of who did what, and in what order. Fog of war seems to be in effect.
- typeofhuman 1y agoCorrect. Lots of emotions in here too. I wonder if this is an appropriate HN post.
- Trasmatta 1y agoLast I checked, emotions aren't banned from HN
- CSMastermind 1y agoNo but generally this place tries to encourage curious discussion and this thread seems to have moved squarely away from an attempt to learn or understand something into venting and flame war territory.
- beyondHelp 1y ago[flagged]
- johnnyanmac 1y agoWe're in a post fact era, so ignoring facts seems inevitable in lieu of emotion.
- thesuitonym 1y agoFog of war? Call it what it is: A misinformation campaign fueled by one of the most successful propaganda networks in history.
- laurent_du 1y agoThe funny thing is that it's impossible to know which side you belong to just by reading this one comment.
- FergusArgyll 1y agoMore Americans think the US is on the right track than at any point during the Obama administration https://news.gallup.com/poll/1669/General-Mood-Country.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1669/General-Mood-Country.aspx
- a_shovel 1y ago38% is still deep in "F" territory. The last time we got a "C" (70%) was December 2001. That probably means something regarding what this poll is measuring.
- i_love_retros 1y ago[flagged]
- noworriesnate 1y agoMove to another country where they ban politicians for being right wing, like France
- i_love_retros 1y agoI wish I could. Is that your plan then?
- croisillon 1y agothe trial for all the money marine le pen stole has been ongoing for 10 years but ok, cry more
- aaronbaugher 1y agoYou could try to convince Democrats (and their establishment GOP pals) to stop flooding the country with illegals and taking their side against Americans even when they riot under foreign flags. That would suck the air right out of the Republicans' #1 issue that's gaining them votes. Good luck with that.
- i_love_retros 1y agoYeah? Should we also get the dems to cosy up with neo Nazi gangs and Russian dictators? Seems the people voting for trump support that.
- Tadpole9181 1y agoAmerica as it was died 24 years ago.
- energy123 1y agoPush for the right collection of social media regulations to alter incentives in just the right way. Push for a solution to the housing crisis.
- danity 1y ago[flagged]
- etblg 1y agoHe can't hear you.
- drysine 1y agoTime for a Russian diplomat to go to LA and give cookies to the protesters in show of support? [0] [0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/6/61/Victoria_Nuland_in_Kyiv.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/6/61/Victoria_Nula...
- croisillon 1y agothis might come as a shock but Kyiv is not in Russia
- drysine 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27
- croisillon 1y agooh you meant Lithuania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania
- drysine 1y agoNot at all. "Prior to the emergence of Kievan Rus' in the 9th century, most of the area north of the Black Sea was primarily populated by eastern Slavic tribes." Likewise Lithuania was a union of Baltic tribes. Later Lithuania grabbed the territory of Kievan Rus' when it was greatly weakened by the Mongol invasion.[0] "The grand duchy expanded to include large portions of the former Kievan Rus' and other neighbouring states, including what is now Belarus, Lithuania, most of Ukraine as well as parts of Latvia, Moldova, Poland and Russia." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Kievan_Rus%27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Kievan_Rus%...
- lordfrito 1y agoMore and more I don't understand what's happening with all of these political articles making it to the front page of HN and stuffed full of charged comments and lots of grey. We may be smart techies but the arguments here about politics seem awfully reductive. We're out of our lane on most of this. What's with all the hate here? The commentary here feels like its sliding it's way towards Reddit. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it's accidental, or maybe it's on purpose? Hoping not to lose my faith in the quality of discourse on this website.
- LexiMax 1y agoYou are seeing the outcome of structural problems that plague any site that puts pseudo-moderation tools into its users hands. Voting and flagging has been weaponized on this site for far longer than most HN users would care to admit. In fact, I feel like HN is much worse about promoting echo chamber behavior than Reddit, due to the visibility differences between a comment being downvoted/flagged dead, as opposed to merely being greyed out and collapsed. If you haven't noticed it before now, it's because the incentive structure is weighed heavily in favor of the echo chamber. Those who engage in good faith eventually get tired of their comments being hidden by an unaccountable mob and leave - and to be clear, I am speaking in the past tense, as in this has already happened to HN several times over.
- spencerflem 1y agoI think its reflective of broader society. For this issue in specific- You either think sending the military to break up protests against the wishes of the governor and mayor and against the bounds of the constituion is a problem, or you are insane. When ICE wears masks and whisks people off the street and sends them to overseas torture camps without warning or due process, you are either opposed or insane. There's honestly no room for nuance on this. We're reaching the point where Trump is sending the military to enforce his unconstitutional actions. Things are awful right now and are about to get so much worse. To be clear- if you support what's happening here: you are a bad person. i genuinely hate you.
- lordfrito 1y ago
- localghost3000 1y agoI live in LA and have been here for almost 30 years now. This stunt is a provocation designed to get a reaction. He wants an excuse to crack heads in a city he hates and that hates him back. He probably also wants us to forget about Musk outing him on the Epstein files. Watching this unfold here is reminding me strongly of the Ghorman plotline in Andor S2: "You need a resistance you can count on to do the wrong thing at the right time."
- yupitsme123 1y agoI don't disagree with you, but after all the damage that was done by riots in 2020, there should be a desire to nip violent protests in the bud.
- BriggyDwiggs42 1y agoWhy does 2020 fundamentally alter the nature of protest?
- yupitsme123 1y agoIt doesn't. Just an example from recent memory of how things can get out of hand if there's no law and order. My city suffered a lot from the drstruction and violence and I would prefer it not happen again.
- BriggyDwiggs42 1y agoWhat I’m just not getting is how there should be this new urgency or desire is all. We’ve had protests, some of which turned into riots, throughout American history. A certain amount of law and order has always been imposed by the authorities (when they haven’t made it worse). It seems like you want that amount to change everywhere, “there should be a desire to nip violent protests in the bud,” but the only reason is because you personally experienced a lot of negative results from riots in 2020. Maybe it’s just your city?
- 1y ago
- QuiEgo 1y agoTo become a hero, you need a villain.
- amai 1y ago"Marines have not been mobilized within the US like they are in California now since the 1992 riots in Los Angeles." Seems to be some kind of tradition to send Marines every 33 years to LA.
- computerthings 1y ago[dead]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ITDoofuses 1y ago[flagged]
- Havoc 1y agoAnd just like that the Elon/Trump thing and Trump/Epstein no longer leads the news. How convenient
- AStonesThrow 1y ago[dead]
- TrapLord_Rhodo 1y ago2k NG, 9k Police, and LA is still burning. The protests are still violent. I'm not sure how this ends without a continued escalation and some very violent night that gets dubbed the "California massacre" in the history books. Deploying military members who are trained to put two in the chest and one in the head all but ensures this. But then again, how are people protesting ICE doing their literal job? The other side of the coin is that anyone can come into the united states and live here. Which is an unsustainable policy. I don't have the answers here, but i pray the violence stops.
- computerthings 1y ago[dead]
- computerthings 1y ago[dead]
- ITDoofuses 1y agoYour entire lifestyle is depending on, respectively subsidized by, the exploitation of imported labor from 3rd world countries. That is why a sizeable portion of you guys is so upset about these ICE immigration law enforcement actions. You are probably posting from your Californian gated communities, afraid to lose your Mexican gardener, Venezuelan housemaid, Philippina babysitter, or your Cuban pool boy.
- wickedsight 1y agoThis might be the worst take I've seen yet. I'm watching this from the other side of the ocean and what I see is a wannabe autocratic leader trying to stay relevant through defining an enemy that doesn't exist. I also see people who just want to live a normal life being kidnapped. I also see judgement without fair trial. I see hate becoming the main driving factor in a country I used to love for being so welcoming. Also, you seem to forget that your food and housing and many other parts of your country are also depending on foreign labor. If Trump deports as many immigrants as he wants to (he can't and won't), the US will have a massive labor crisis.
- xunil2ycom 1y agoI live in a flyover state, and do not have any "staff" of any kind, and you are full of horse hockey.
- xunil2ycom 1y ago"Preserve, protect, and defend the constitution of the United States of America".. more or less what our soldiers take an oath to do. I don't see any of this as consistent with that oath. Our military commanders have a duty to refuse this order.
- KETpXDDzR 1y agoYou should judge a civilization by how they treat their poorest. In this case the US is treating them with batons and rubber bullets.