31 ms·

WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

1756 points by jamesbvaughan 3y ago

amacalac 3y ago
Reminds me of the time I dumped CANbus data off a Yamaha R1 bike, made sense of the data, and displayed it on a bunch of charts. Interesting data like Accelerator Handle position, you can figure out how much a rider is really cranking it, and how aggressive they are riding.
- jasonjayr 3y ago
  ... Which is precisely the data those data loggers you plug in from insurance companies track to adjust/refine your rates .....
  - mikepurvis 3y ago
    Honestly, it seems pretty fair to me. If I'm a careful, occasional driver, and the insurance company otherwise has no way of knowing that, then they have to bill me like I'm commuting every day in stop and go traffic, distracted by podcasts and who knows what else. There will probably always be a "premium" market for no-questions-asked insurance, but if the company can give me a break on my rate based on my driving behaviours correlating to a lower incident likelihood, I'll happily take that break. Even better if such measures correspond to drivers across the board adjusting their habits now that it hits them directly in the wallet.
    - jasonjayr 3y ago
      At it's face, yea, it sounds fair, and the more data you feed to the actuarial tables, the more accurately they can identify the specific cost of insuring that driver. My concern is that it's a tragedy of the commons type situation: this normalizes data surveillance. We have no idea exactly what data the device is transmitting, and what the insurance company will do with that data. Regulations protecting this data are weak-to-non existent. With everyone's budget being stressed, people are quick to trade a few dollars to sacrifice privacy, and then this technology is being mandated everywhere.
      - mikepurvis 3y ago
        Fair, though given that manufacturers are already doing this stuff anyway, it feels like a problem to be solved with broader privacy legislation than by making good drivers pay for the cost of bad drivers. On the other hand, I suppose I'm a bad person to make this argument since I actually dislike personal automobiles for a whole host of reasons, so I'd just as soon get back my privacy by walking, cycling, and using mass transit.
    - akira2501 3y ago
      The majority of fatalities involve drugs or alcohol, they often involve youth and speed, and occur at night. Many insurance claims involve single vehicle accidents and weather or other wear related damage. The most common two vehicle claim is rear ending into a stationary vehicle, where it's not particularly difficult to determine fault. Further, none of this matters all that much if you have a straight liability only policy, since that's based on liability of damages and not replacement property values. These devices make very little sense to me and I'd be curious to know if anyone has any data that the presence of these devices is having any impact whatsoever.
  - LesZedCB 3y ago
    I did one of those once and tried for three months to drive really carefully. in Boston. it basically broke me and my driving sanity for 6+ months and made me a really worse driver for a while, maybe permanently?? and my rate basically didn't change at all.
mvkel 3y ago
Love this kind of stuff.
atourgates 3y ago
I'm an Alaska (relatively) frequent flyer. That airline offers a free "messaging" plan, that lets you send and receive messages on apps like iMessage, Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp. Though, it somehow prevents images/attachments from coming through on those platforms. I've always wondered how this is implemented technically, and if it might be possible to setup some kind of protocol/wrapper to send data that looks like it's being sent over those protocols, but offers access to other parts of the internet.
- sixstringtheory 3y ago
  Could always send base64 data strings!
- phantom784 3y ago
  I'd suspect it kills TCP connections once a threshold of data has been transferred, and the threshold is enough to let text through but not enough for attachments.
  - grishka 3y ago
    Good luck doing that against Telegram. It would simply reconnect and resume the download where it left off.
- alexfoo 3y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33568994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33568994
- organsnyder 3y ago
  United wifi is similar. I've found that notifications work for most things, including my Home Assistant instance—they must all use the same Apple push service.
  - atourgates 3y ago
    I noticed the same on Alaska flying last weekend. As soon as I activated the "Free Messaging" service, I got a bunch of notifications from my Apple Home and Google Nest devices.
notmysql_ 3y ago
Thats funny, I discovered the same thing a few months ago and built a CLI flight tracker[1] that uses the API. I've tried it across a couple of airlines and it worked almost perfectly across all of them, because they were all using the same in flight ISP. [1]: https://github.com/NalinPlad/OuterFlightTracker https://github.com/NalinPlad/OuterFlightTracker
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  That's cool! I had wanted to make something similar, but I didn't have enough experience with making TUIs to build it without using the internet for reference during the flight. I'm glad to that it's been done though!
  - notmysql_ 3y ago
    Yeah, I was on a long flight home from a hackathon with some fellow programmers so it was fun to work on it together
gs17 3y ago
Glad someone looked into the flight tracker, I was always curious how real the data in it is. Although it doesn't answer my curiosity about how they manage to mess it up occasionally. I've had flight data from different flights pop up a few times on Southwest, which is never reassuring to see.
- grepfru_it 3y ago
  If it's the panasonic inflight system, it receives flight data from the FMS. If the system does not receive flight data from the FMS then it will not be up to date. Your browser could also be retrieving old cached content. Basically there is nothing about this system to assure you, it's entirely a secondary data-delayed system that is not critical to flight operations and as such can be INOP at anytime and no one will care.
  - flutas 3y ago
    I honestly miss having to debug the racks at pana. But there were so many "what" level bugs with the systems. I remember DRM breaking multiple times for the IFE because they assigned the same IP to multiple devices.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - mulmen 3y ago
      Based on the current top comment those IPs may not have been assigned. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37693293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37693293
    - grepfru_it 3y ago
      Worked on redboot, so i was probably the person you were cursing out
  - gs17 3y ago
    > Your browser could also be retrieving old cached content. No, these are flights I couldn't physically have been on. Sometimes it is old content, but it's for the flight the plane took previously and doesn't update. Here's an example of it happening to someone else: https://community.southwest.com/t5/Inflight-Experience/Flight-Tracker-problem/td-p/92977 https://community.southwest.com/t5/Inflight-Experience/Fligh...
cirrus3 3y ago
Fun story =) Anyone else freaked out by that "time" format though? Seems like a strange choice, would have expected something more standard like ISO 8601 with timezone offset. "time": "Sun Sep 24 22:02:19 2023"
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  I felt similar! My best guess is that whoever designed this system preferred to transform the time into a localized (based on the flight's location, I guess?) representation on the server so that they could drop it directly into the web UI without much client-side logic.
- hughes 3y ago
  It looks like the default formatting used by `ctime`. Could be a clue about the underlying backend. https://cplusplus.com/reference/ctime/ctime/ https://cplusplus.com/reference/ctime/ctime/
latchkey 3y ago
I was just thinking that you could take a picture from the window and then tie the GPS coordinates to the image with the output from that JSON. Kind of handy.
- jonah 3y ago
  If you have location permissions enabled in your camera app, the image's exif data will have the coordinates in it. (US Civilian GPS units are prohibited from working above 60,000 ft above sea level and 1,000 knots due to ITAR munitions export restrictions.)
  - pklausler 3y ago
    Stupid question: how do civilian GPS units know that they're above 60,000' or faster than 1000 knots without, um, working?
    - comprev 3y ago
      Maybe they read 60,000 even when at 62,000?
    - 0x457 3y ago
      Well, they work internally, just don't expose information to the outside.
    - lom 3y ago
      I’ve managed to get a GPS lock while flying, it just takes a few minutes to find one. Was it misreporting my position? because it usually matched up with what I saw outside of the window
      - extraduder_ire 3y ago
        Probably because you were in a large aluminium tube at the time, and had no internet to get the AGPS data, so it had to receive the orbital elements from the satellites. (IIRC, this can take as many as 24 minutes worst case) If you're using GNSS tracking on a flight, consider checking out the OSMand~ app for android. There's a map layout for flying, though I don't know if the navigation features work.
hocuspocus 3y ago
The speed unit looks more like knots than mph.
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  Good catch! I'm not very familiar with knots - what specifically makes the speeds here look like knots to you? edit: Updated the article. Thanks!
  - KolmogorovComp 3y ago
    Airline planes never use mph but only knots.
    - jamesbvaughan 3y ago
      That makes sense. One reason I think it could be MPH despite that is because some of the other data seems like it's been processed so that it doesn't need to be transformed any further on the client side before using it in the UI, and the UI displays the speed in MPH. If I were still on the flight, I could just compare the numbers in these payloads to the MPH number in the UI and confirm.
      - mulmen 3y ago
        Based on the lat/long of your destination and the coordinates of the plane I believe the distance and speed actually are in miles and mph: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37694487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37694487
    - capableweb 3y ago
      Well, most airlines. I think both China and Russia already switched to SI units (so km/h), and supposedly ICAO recommends using km/h but there is exception for using knots and there is also no end date to stop using knots, so everyone just continues to use knots.
      - 3y ago
pogue 3y ago
What browser or extension has Copy as cURL and all those other functions?
- idbehold 3y ago
  Firefox
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  All chromium-based browsers have it in the network tab of the dev tools
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- isodev 3y ago
  Safari has it out of the box in the web inspector.
- alana314 3y ago
  chrome
- system2 3y ago
  Inspect element (F12) > Network tab > when you refresh the screen check the header section to see the raw data. You can right click and copy curl or xor.
SirMaster 3y ago
I want to see someone build a proxy that uses the free iMessage or WhatsApp allowed connection to send arbitrary data. Like have a WhatsApp relay set up at home that you are sending messages to and from, from the plane. Like at a most basic level, send a message of a URL to your home WhatsApp which loads the web page there, and sends the HTML back as a WhatApp message reply so you can render it etc. Wonder what someone could all do and make work. edit Guess someone made a TCP relay using WhatApp already, neat.
- jackconsidine 3y ago
  I see you found that TCP relay- I've been dying to try it but I've heard of people successfully using it https://github.com/aleixrodriala/wa-tunnel https://github.com/aleixrodriala/wa-tunnel
- darknavi 3y ago
  https://github.com/aleixrodriala/wa-tunnel https://github.com/aleixrodriala/wa-tunnel
- vzqx 3y ago
  I've noticed that airline wifi doesn't block DNS traffic. You can likely accomplish the same thing with a DNS tunnel like Iodine (https://github.com/yarrick/iodine https://github.com/yarrick/iodine).
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Sometimes they just redirect ALL DNS traffic to their little portal until you sign in/up.
  - lazycouchpotato 3y ago
    Many years ago, I noticed I could browse the Google Play Store on a flight WiFi without paying for it. No images would load and no apps would download, but I could browse through app listings and read reviews. Would this be related to DNS?
    - 3y ago
billy99k 3y ago
I just took two delta flights in the US. The first had free Wifi through Tmobile. It marginally worked. It was just fast enough to view low-intensity websites and I was able to connect to my linux servers back home.
soupfordummies 3y ago
Fun read! Reminds me of the type of articles I would find in 2600. The hacker spirit at work :)
benced 3y ago
Another thing to notice: they use the highly nonstandard time zone abbreviation “PDT”. This works because they’re a US-only airline but if an international airline did this, they’d be in for a world of hurt.
- xxpor 3y ago
  PDT is extremely standard? http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/zoneinfo.tzc?s=default&tz=PST8PDT http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/zoneinfo.tzc?s=defa... Granted, I think everything should always be a UTC offset, but I'm also weird.
- everly 3y ago
  Is it really "highly nonstandard"? I thought it referred to Pacific Time during daylight savings. The rest of the time being PST (Pacific Standard Time).
- wil421 3y ago
  > Specifically, time in this zone is referred to as Pacific Standard Time (PST) when standard time is being observed (early November to mid-March), and Pacific Daylight Time (PDT) when daylight saving time (mid-March to early November) is being observed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Time_Zone#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20time%20in%20this%20zone,early%20November)%20is%20being%20observed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Time_Zone#:~:text=Sp.... What do you think is the correct format?
- kube-system 3y ago
  Southwest has international routes now to popular vacation destinations south of the US.
- jdminhbg 3y ago
  > This works because they’re a US-only airline They're not US-only (note that the response included a value for whether it was a non-US-including flight), but they are North/Central America/Caribbean-only.
- recursive 3y ago
fer 3y ago
I belive this is OPs flight if anyone wants to compare plane data with ADS-B one. https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA2340/history/20230924/2030Z/KSTL/KOAK https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA2340/history/2023...
- schoen 3y ago
  Conceivably, the ADS-B data source might be the same as the data source for this API, at least in that they might be calculated from the same instruments and flight systems.
  - fer 3y ago
    Potentially, but altitude and speed data on ADS-B are constrained to just 11 bits (+ 1 bit dedicated to the resolution: 25 vs 100-feet increments). So while I believe the data source is the same, one can see quantization artifacts when comparing both signals.
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  That is the flight. This is a cool idea - I wish I had thought of it!
api 3y ago
Fun fact: ZeroTier works in most cases on in-flight wifi without logging in. I guess they usually allow UDP.
- TurkishPoptart 3y ago
  Is this for connecting to a home device without paying for wifi?
cph123 3y ago
I did something similar on an easyJet flight, I wrote a little Python script to save the altitude and speed data from the free WiFi. They have a cool 3D WebGL rendering of the plane in the air like Flight Simulator, but the satellite imagery was really low res.
paul7986 3y ago
If you travel lite with clothes in a book bag(wash clothes if extended stay)… I don't see why anyone would fly United, Southwest, American Airlines, etc VS.the budget Airlines like Spirit. Maybe if you have points with those airlines… Otherwise, save hundreds of dollars using budget airlines which the planes are newer in my experience, and never had a bad experience versus my recent bad experiences with Delta and the others in which I paid a lot more for. Almost all airlines I've had to pay for Internet access, including Spirit so for me, I don't understand why I would fly all the more expensive airlines versus using Spirit. There's a lot of negative marketing out there about Spirit… After my 10 positive flights experiences in the last six months with them I don't believe the hype.
- technothrasher 3y ago
  Sometimes the budget airlines don't fly to where I'm going, or do so by long multi connecting routes. I'm currently sitting on an AA flight because it was the cheapest option with a reasonable travel time. Honestly, it kind of sucks for all the usual reasons, but I've at least got free wifi on my phone through some deal with T-Mobile.
- dboreham 3y ago
  > I don't see why anyone would fly United, Southwest, American Airlines, etc VS.the budget Airlines like Spirit. I'm on a spoke (not a hub) and just don't have the service available to use budget airlines even if I wanted to. We have JetBlue -- they fly to Boston and that's it. We have Allegiant and they fly to Phoenix (not really Phoenix -- Mesa), and we have Avelo they they fly to LA (not really LA: Burbank). All these airlines fly one flight per day, and often not every day of the week. When I'm traveling somewhere that works for the budget airlines, I'm still leery because if their plane breaks down or there is "weather in Cincinnati", I'm screwed. They don't have a second plane available. otoh we have United, Delta, American, Alaska, Southwest with flights to several hubs each, multiple flights per day, through international ticketing, first class sometimes open... Plus I don't pay for luggage on the major carriers due to credit card membership/status.
- itslennysfault 3y ago
  You must have buns of steel. I flew Spirit exactly once (well, twice, it was round-trip), and it was such a miserable experience I swore to never do it again. Their seats are made of concrete as far as I can tell. For domestic flights I pretty much always sit in the window and never get up during the flight. On spirit I had to get up and walk around after about 3 hours 'cause my ass was sore. Never again.
ardit33 3y ago
It is just 8 bucks for the full service... just buy the internet bro. It is actually pretty good.
- s3p 3y ago
  You're not understanding the point of the comment. The Flighty team did some amazing engineering work for anyone who doesn't pay.
  - catiopatio 3y ago
    > amazing engineering Background updates are a built-in, supported, documented feature, widely employed by applications on the platform, and accessible to anyone that reads the two pages of documentation required to use them: “Pushing background updates to your App — Deliver notifications that wake your app and update it in the background.” https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/setting_up_a_remote_notification_server/pushing_background_updates_to_your_app https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/... edited for politeness
    - teaearlgraycold 3y ago
      Why is that toxic?
      - catiopatio 3y ago
        A cognitive filter that misrepresents reality is toxic.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        teaearlgraycold 3y ago
        That’s how all thought works.
    - 3y ago
jackconsidine 3y ago
Love the spirit of this article. The author could have Git-scraped [0] this info! https://simonwillison.net/2020/Oct/9/git-scraping/ https://simonwillison.net/2020/Oct/9/git-scraping/
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  This is cool - thanks for sharing
hackmiester 3y ago
Here is how to get the equivalent data on a Delta flight. $ curl https://wifi.delta.com/api/flight-data | jq % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed 100 448 100 448 0 0 5600 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 5743 { "timestamp": "2023-07-11T14:54:41Z", "eta": "17:48", "flightDuration": 278, "flightNumber": "DAL786", "latitude": 39.723472595214844, "longitude": -97.1514205932617, "noseId": "3879", "paState": false, "vehicleId": "N879DN", "destination": "KPDX", "origin": "KATL", "flightId": "N879DN_SF_20230711121358", "airspeed": null, "airTemperature": 24, "altitude": 33922, "distanceToGo": 179, "doorState": "Closed", "groundspeed": 442, "heading": -73, "timeToGo": 174, "wheelWeightState": "Off" } And a fun snippet for you. $ curl -s https://wifi.delta.com/api/flight-data | jq -r '"https://maps.google.com/?q=", .latitude, ",", .longitude' | tr -d '\n'; echo https://maps.google.com/?q=40.5615234375,-101.2824478149414
- c7DJTLrn 3y ago
  It would be nice if you could send a POST request to open the door if you want some fresh air.
  - pwillia7 3y ago
    DELTE
  - hackmiester 3y ago
    I tried to change the flight level by PATCHing altitude, but it seemed to require authentication. Oh well.
    - CamperBob2 3y ago
      This sounds like a good way to meet some upset people with expensive sunglasses shortly after you land.
benbristow 3y ago
I've done something similar on trains in the UK before, specifically LNER (was Virgin Trains East Coast at the time but don't think the Wi-Fi solution has changed) trains. The icomera captive portal has an endpoint which returns the GPS coordinates of the train along with the speed. And some other endpoints for next stops etc. Once made a little React app that showed the train on a Leaflet map. Was a good waste of a few hours.
pjot 3y ago
I have an American Airlines flight in a few hours. Looking forward to see what kind of data I can find now
1B05H1N 3y ago
Did you have permission to do that ? Sounds pretty risky to be probing the network of a flight imo.
- Etheryte 3y ago
  Are you aware what the website you're currently on is called?
  - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
    Hackers talk about ethics and legality all the time!
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  No permission - just curiosity :) I'm not too concerned about the risk associated with fetching a JSON file that their flight status page is already fetching on a loop. That said, I'm curious what risks you have in mind.
  - mulmen 3y ago
    > That said, I'm curious what risks you have in mind. Overzealous prosecutors.
- fouc 3y ago
  There's no "probing the network" involved here. The in-flight webpage was continuously fetching a specific end-point from the in-flight web server. This end-point is basically public data. All he did was duplicate what the webpage was already doing, and then do some basic analysis on the data the end-point was returning.
  - mcast 3y ago
    Cybersecurity and internet crime laws are notoriously outdated (created in the 80s). I could see a bad lawyer arguing that cURLing an API repeatedly is “hacking”.
sswaner 3y ago
On many United flights you can connect to onboard wifi without buying the plan and have internet access on port 22 and apparently unrestricted UDP. This allows me to connect to an EC2 instance running mosh. Coding in vim is a great way to pass the time on a flight.
- system2 3y ago
  Can't you create an SSH tunnel to a machine and RDP with it? Then you'd have fully functioning internet.
Thaxll 3y ago
Reminds me how old and unsecure those system used to be, years ago they would perform DNS queries but block most traffic, meaning that you could get free internet by using DNS tunneling. Same for the movies on board, if they have some apps and not just movies in front seat, you can use vlc, ffmpeg to download / watch the movie without ads / interruption. When I was doing some digging they used a lot of Panasonic solution and open source stuff such as squid cache, apache http. https://na.panasonic.com/ca/industries/avionics https://na.panasonic.com/ca/industries/avionics
alexellisuk 3y ago
What did you use to create your graphics?
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  I used chart.js [0], but I don't necessarily endorse it - it's just what I knew how to use quickly. I usually try to keep my posts free from javascript, and could have used a different tool that gives me SVG data or images. You can see the code that's generating these charts here: https://github.com/jamesbvaughan/jamesbvaughan.com/blob/main/content/posts/southwest-wifi/charts.js https://github.com/jamesbvaughan/jamesbvaughan.com/blob/main... [0] https://www.chartjs.org/ https://www.chartjs.org/
  - alexellisuk 3y ago
    Thanks
luc_ 3y ago
this is such a wholesome nerd post. i love it.
dramm 3y ago
“According to this data, the plane’s altitude was only fluctuating by about 20-30 feet. This is more stable than I expected!” Autopilots are very good and they are servoing to the pressure altitude. Many pressure altitude encoders used in modern aircraft (for example to drive altitudes that transponders report to SSR radar or via ADS-B) have 25 ft encoding resolution. That 25ft resolution is likely what is being seen here. Other encoders have 10 ft resolution but 25 ft is very common.
- jfim 3y ago
  A plane going up and down 20-30 feet seems like it would be very unpleasant. Considering that there's longitude and latitude, isn't it more likely that the altitude is coming from GPS, which is notoriously inaccurate with regards to elevation?
  - chatmasta 3y ago
    Maybe the plane is staying level but the ground is variable terrain.
    - rockostrich 3y ago
      Elevation is relative to sea level, not the ground.
      - funnyflywheel 3y ago
        This only holds true if you’re flying at or above the transition altitude. The transition altitude depends on where you’re flying: for example, in the USA and Canada it’s 18_000 feet MSL.
        danbtl 3y ago
        It's still sea-level. The transition altitude just changes the altimeter setting from one that matches the current air pressure to a standard pressure setting.
MayeulC 3y ago
Ah, interesting. I guess this could be used by UnifiedNLP: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.sorunome.unifiednlp.trains/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.sorunome.unifiednlp.train... Also, KDE Itinerary: https://invent.kde.org/pim/itinerary/-/blob/master/src/app/SettingsPage.qml#L194 https://invent.kde.org/pim/itinerary/-/blob/master/src/app/S... I'm off pinging the relevant projects :)
not2b 3y ago
But SouthWest will give you a much prettier display of that same data (track your flight, see the current altitude and ETA, and a lot more, like the plane's position on the map) without paying for their WiFi. My guess is that they are using the same data that article writer wrote a program to process. Essentially there is one site you can visit for free and that's where it is.
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  Yep, that's exactly right! They have a nice status page that you can visit free of charge that visualizes this data. I chose to scrape it for a couple reasons: 1. I wanted see all of the data for the entire flight - that status page only visualizes the current values. 2. It was fun!
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Plus there's no Internet. What're you going to do, read a book?
- coffeebeqn 3y ago
  I was on some US flight recently - maybe Alaskan airlines - and they basically had a LAN box with movies and shows accessible on wifi without internet access
- samwhiteUK 3y ago
  Thank you. That answers the question I had which was, "why does trying to get the portal page return a load of data about the plane?"
warkdarrior 3y ago
> I didn’t know what I’d do with the data at this point, but I started collecting it right away so that I’d have as much as possible to play with later. And people complain that everything everywhere collects data on everyone.
- mulmen 3y ago
  The complaint is collecting data on others. Specifically the complaint is on others collecting data on me.
ejcx 3y ago
I have a similar program I run that does this stuff for United flights: https://github.com/ejcx/uwc/blob/master/uwc.go https://github.com/ejcx/uwc/blob/master/uwc.go The code is horrendous but it has worked for years and I guess when I wrote it originally I didn't want to use a go struct for some reason?
dekhn 3y ago
Wait, doesn't everybody set up a prometheus/grafana dashboard for each flight to show the telemetry?
- system2 3y ago
  I usually connect to the cockpit directly with rj45 to keep it stable. Sometimes even talk to the pilot with the encrypted coms.
  - H8crilA 3y ago
    Talking to the pilots costs about $200 and is really easy, though very illegal - just find out which ATC freq are they currently on and transmit, from a handheld radio or a HackRF. You could also transmit on Guard. If you prefer to text rather than speak you can send them ACARS, with roughly the same hardware. Though if you use a handheld radio you'll also need a laptop to generate the baseband signal, as I don't think there are any commercially available ACARS transmitters. (Please never do this, you'll go to jail for a long time).
    - dekhn 3y ago
      I just listen (with an SDR, I never got a HackRF because I don't transmit). Where I live I can see planes on approach to SFO and can cross-reference flight codes on the radio with planes that I can see flying by and on flightradar.
aplusbi 3y ago
The `ac` in `actime24` probably means `arrival city`.
wesapien 3y ago
What software did you use to do the visuals? I want to try this out.
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  I used chart.js [0], but I don't necessarily endorse it - it's just what I knew how to use quickly. I usually try to keep my posts free from javascript, and could have used a different tool that gives me SVG data or images. You can see the code that's generating these charts here: https://github.com/jamesbvaughan/jamesbvaughan.com/blob/main https://github.com/jamesbvaughan/jamesbvaughan.com/blob/main... [0] https://www.chartjs.org/ https://www.chartjs.org/
mavili 3y ago
Almost a duplicate, but actually not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37692832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37692832
sciencerobot 3y ago
Just make sure to never send a PATCH request
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  Considering how delayed that flight was, I'd have loved to be able to PATCH the `dist_remain` field.
commandlinefan 3y ago
When my son was younger - maybe 9 or 10 or so, we were on a plane and he was using his phone and I looked over his shoulder and realized he was on the internet... but I hadn't paid for an internet plan. I said, "son, how are you using the internet?" He said, "oh, a kid at school showed me - if you go here" (he opened up the wifi settings where the DHCP assigned IP address is) "and start changing the numbers, eventually the internet will work." Apparently, at the time, on American Airlines, when somebody bought and paid for an internet plan, it gave them an IP address and authorized it to use the internet... if somebody else guessed your IP address (which was pretty easy, it was a 192.168 address) and spoofed it, they could take over your internet connection with no further authorization. I had to tell him not to do that, but I was kind of proud of him for having the temerity to go for it.
- wferrell 3y ago
  This is an amazing story. Thanks for posting.
- KMnO4 3y ago
  I used to do the same thing at hotels. Still often works. nmap -sn 192.168.0.1-255 To find everyone on the network, then start spoofing each of their MACs until you find one that works
  - savrajsingh 3y ago
    I should probably know the answer, but what happens when two devices have the same MAC address?
    - queuebert 3y ago
      Only one way to find out.
    - commandlinefan 3y ago
      No way to tell for sure, but I can only assume that he had actually hijacked somebody else's connection and the other person's device stopped working for them. I sure wasn't going to stand up and ask the plane if anybody had had their internet plan hacked...
punnerud 3y ago
Nice trick with the watch to download periodic: watch -n 30 "curl https://getconnected.southwestwifi.com/current.json https://getconnected.southwestwifi.com/current.json | jq -c >> flight-logs" I often use crontab, but this looks easier for testing. Thanks.
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  Yeah, if this were something that I wanted to leave running for more than the duration of a flight, I'd reach for cron, but a bash one-liner was perfect for this use-case!
kristopolous 3y ago
On redeye international flights with exorbitant WiFi fees I'll admit to scanning for MAC addresses, get the top talkers, then come back later when ones been idle for like 15 minutes, presuming the person is asleep and change my mac to take the address and get online. I just did it for fun, ok fine.
- kkyr 3y ago
  How do you determine who the top talkers are?
  - sneak 3y ago
    The wi-fi on planes is not encrypted.
    - cromka 3y ago
      Even if it was, you’d still see the top talkers
  - cromka 3y ago
    By setting the WiFi card into monitor mode, and using by e.g. Kismet for data collection.
    - kristopolous 3y ago
      I did it with tshark but yes this is a pretty easy problem to solve. I think I even made a script in lua to do it automatically
javier_e06 3y ago
Fun fact: I used to work for a company that provided equipment and services for satcom. The price tier and license for airborne communication was higher and we had software calculating the speed and if the speed went over 300 m/hr or alike it will check your license features and expiration date. If you forgot to pay your bill, no wifi for ya! We did not use altitude for obvious reasons.
the_mitsuhiko 3y ago
I added flight status on airlines I fly into my shell prompt from the wifi status. It’s surprisingly fun. https://x.com/mitsuhiko/status/866601971565944832?s=46&t=xvVku2nNB5qI0ZzjVKuITw https://x.com/mitsuhiko/status/866601971565944832?s=46&t=xvV...
TrackerFF 3y ago
Yes, that's standard data which is broadcasted to the passengers via the plane app/website. Usually the apps will have some "show position" feature where you can see position, speed, altitude, ETA, etc.
xhkkffbf 3y ago
On one of the earlier flights with wifi, I found that my Google docs were saving correctly even though I didn't pay for the wifi upcharge. The router wasn't blocking those ports. It seems like this has changed recently. Too bad.
yread 3y ago
We messed around on a recent KLM flight and what's interesting is that you get a DNS prefix of klm.com in DHCP (or some ms extension of it). The gateway has a name of www that allows you to access www.klm.com even though no name servers are accessible so DNS shouldn't work.
macinjosh 3y ago
Pretty sure all these hacks and tips for getting free Wi-Fi aren't actually very legal. Sure the chances of getting caught are small, but you are also stealing connectivity someone else paid for by spoofing their mac address. Something, something, mucking about with an airliner even if its just the wifi could probably be twisted into some sort of federal aviation offense too.
munro 3y ago
I've always wanted to bring a lil router like a GL.iNet, pay for internet, then share it free for everyone on the plane hehe
- josu 3y ago
  Why not just use the hotspot on your phone?
  - MostlyStable 3y ago
    I believe that you can't both simultaneously provide wifi hotspot and use wifi internet (at least, I couldn't on a phone several years ago last time I tried it). I think you can only do that if the network the phone is using is accessed via the cellular modem.
    - pests 3y ago
      That used to be the case but it has changed now. Probably depends on the phone broadband chipset used. These days you can passthru your WiFi or even a wired connection (via USB to a connected PC or a Ethernet-to-USB adapter) via a Hotspot.
    - ikjasdlk2234 3y ago
      You can on Android, and have for some time IIRC. This is how I get free wifi on my computer by passing it through my T-Mobile phone.
    - mbesto 3y ago
      Correct. My GL-E750 Mudi has a repeater function: https://docs.gl-inet.com/router/en/3/setup/gl-e750/internet/#2-repeater https://docs.gl-inet.com/router/en/3/setup/gl-e750/internet/... My iPhone does not.
    - Eavolution 3y ago
      I absolutely can, that's how I connect my ps4 to my uni accommodation internet as it's mschapv2 or smth the ps4 can't connect to. I know it's definitely using the wifi and not my mobile data as my data usage for the day is unchanged after I've downloaded a game. Cheap Chinese android phone from 2020 (or maybe 2021 can't remember).
bowsamic 3y ago
What a waste of time
userbinator 3y ago
I was expecting an article about a LAN party aboard a flight.
ern 3y ago
Airlines have a moving map on their captive wifi portals. Didn’t know it was rendered client side though. Something to try when I next fly.
TheHappyOddish 3y ago
For those not in (I presume) the US, "Southwest" appears to be the name of an airline. I was disappointed to find out this wasn't a puzzle to solve when only travelling in a specific direction, but still an interesting read.
demondemidi 3y ago
This is just the raw data from the in-flight GUI. Is that it? What am I missing?
- teacpde 3y ago
  Nothing, I believe this gets the upvotes simply because it is fun.
  - demondemidi 3y ago
    Good point: I upvoted it! :)
pperi11 3y ago
I remember when buying wifi on a plane was sooooo forbidden by my parents. Now i literally buy wifi on every flight lol
RagnarD 3y ago
I have to wonder if some eager LEO would try to find some illegality in this, especially given all of the federal laws around aircraft. Obviously it's innocuous, but I'd think twice about writing about this kind of tinkering for that reason.
justinclift 3y ago
In this fragment here: // This looks like info about the system's satellite internet connection. "sat_commlink_portal": { // The connection is okay! "status": "conn_ok", // I'm not sure what this time is. // It hasn't changed at all. "time": "Sun Sep 24 22:02:19 2023" The "time" field could be the timestamp of when the status field last changed. That's the most obvious thought anyway. :)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
flemhans 3y ago
I remember the days when I poked around like that too, and go to 128.65.70.1 and find the Hughes admin interface for the satellite link itself.
birdyrooster 3y ago
WiFi with internet if you use a DNS VPN, they are handy and cost you nothing to use
mmaunder 3y ago
Bring a Stratus, Sentry or open source equivalent with and you can get that data for most other aircraft within line of site in real-time, along with weather, radar, pilot reports and more.
suction 3y ago
[dead]
philprx 3y ago
actime24 is possibly for Arrival City time, not aircraft time. Fun research!
ggm 3y ago
does anyone think the marginal cost of internet in flight may drop to free? It's already commonly rolled up in J class seats.
H8crilA 3y ago
You can also get an SDR (a $50 RTL-SDR will do) and listen to your own plane's ADS-B signal. For visualization you can use tar1090. Private Flightradar24. With the same SDR you can also listen to the ATC comms, as well as see ACARS messages. It's a bit tedious to listen to ATC and your own pilots, but you'll know exactly why your plane is delayed.
tempestn 3y ago
Anyone else halfway through reading, already thinking this would be a great way to end up on a TSA watchlist?
ingen0s 3y ago
fun!
allarm 3y ago
Read this post while traveling on an ICE train. I decided to see if there was something similar in DB WiFi - and it turns out you can get two json files with current trip data. Here's a graph of the train speed for the last hour of my trip: km/h ice train speed 160 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | + + + + + ** + | |* ** | 140 |*+ ** +-| |* ** | |* ** | 120 |*+ ** +-| | * * * | | * * * | 100 |-* * * +-| | * * * * | 80 |-* ** ** * ** +-| | * ** *** * * | | * ** * ** | 60 |-+* * ** * ** +-| | * **** * ** * ** | | * * * * * * * | 40 |-+ ****** * **** ** * * +-| | ***** * **** * ** | | * * * * ** | 20 |-+ * * * * ** +-| | * * * * ** | | + * * * + + + *+ * + | 0 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 350 count
gregfjohnson 3y ago
This is why I love hacker news. I was sitting in the waiting area at Long Beach Airport about to board a Southwest flight when I read this article. Did the hack, it worked spectacularly. I didn't have jq installed, but whipped up a python script with 'import json', watched the data stream the whole flight. Thanks a million for posting this!
dtjohnnymonkey 3y ago
This is fun. I used to build these REST APIs for airlines (not Southwest though). Fun to see them get some attention!
gslepak 3y ago
Why don't all the images load in Firefox?
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  I just took a look on my machine and the images are all loading in Firefox. If they're still not loading for you, would you mind sharing more info? Are you just getting 404s?
intellix 3y ago
When I don't have internet and nothing else to do, I'll spend the entire flight trying to get free internet
willhackett 3y ago
I remember doing something similar on a flight until a flight attendant, very confused, asked me how I had all of the graphs from the flight deck on my laptop. Was a funny conversation, especially giving Panasonic (who made the inflight flight tracker) exposes way more data on their API than I could get in the airline’s provided view.
kantorkel 3y ago
Thank you for sharing this story. That motivated me to write mine down: WiFi without internet on a Marabu flight https://marx.wtf/2023/09/30/wifi-without-internet-on-a-marabu-flight/ https://marx.wtf/2023/09/30/wifi-without-internet-on-a-marab...
- jamesbvaughan 3y ago
  This is great! Thanks for sharing.
shortformblog 3y ago
When I was 13, I got a modem, and I would frequently call MeritNet lines to see how far I could get on the locked-down Lynx browser without a login, not having access to type in any addresses myself. If I managed to get on an interesting page before I was eventually booted off, I won. Tided me over until I actually got to use an ISP.
spandextwins 3y ago
What happened to the notion that the internet should be free and open?
ahmadznz 3y ago
Check out https://flightradar24.com https://flightradar24.com

1756 points by jamesbvaughan 3y ago

Reminds me of the time I dumped CANbus data off a Yamaha R1 bike, made sense of the data, and displayed it on a bunch of charts. Interesting data like Accelerator Handle position, you can figure out how much a rider is really cranking it, and how aggressive they are riding.

jasonjayr 3y ago
... Which is precisely the data those data loggers you plug in from insurance companies track to adjust/refine your rates .....
- mikepurvis 3y ago
  Honestly, it seems pretty fair to me. If I'm a careful, occasional driver, and the insurance company otherwise has no way of knowing that, then they have to bill me like I'm commuting every day in stop and go traffic, distracted by podcasts and who knows what else. There will probably always be a "premium" market for no-questions-asked insurance, but if the company can give me a break on my rate based on my driving behaviours correlating to a lower incident likelihood, I'll happily take that break. Even better if such measures correspond to drivers across the board adjusting their habits now that it hits them directly in the wallet.
  - jasonjayr 3y ago
    At it's face, yea, it sounds fair, and the more data you feed to the actuarial tables, the more accurately they can identify the specific cost of insuring that driver. My concern is that it's a tragedy of the commons type situation: this normalizes data surveillance. We have no idea exactly what data the device is transmitting, and what the insurance company will do with that data. Regulations protecting this data are weak-to-non existent. With everyone's budget being stressed, people are quick to trade a few dollars to sacrifice privacy, and then this technology is being mandated everywhere.
    - mikepurvis 3y ago
      Fair, though given that manufacturers are already doing this stuff anyway, it feels like a problem to be solved with broader privacy legislation than by making good drivers pay for the cost of bad drivers. On the other hand, I suppose I'm a bad person to make this argument since I actually dislike personal automobiles for a whole host of reasons, so I'd just as soon get back my privacy by walking, cycling, and using mass transit.
  - akira2501 3y ago
    The majority of fatalities involve drugs or alcohol, they often involve youth and speed, and occur at night. Many insurance claims involve single vehicle accidents and weather or other wear related damage. The most common two vehicle claim is rear ending into a stationary vehicle, where it's not particularly difficult to determine fault. Further, none of this matters all that much if you have a straight liability only policy, since that's based on liability of damages and not replacement property values. These devices make very little sense to me and I'd be curious to know if anyone has any data that the presence of these devices is having any impact whatsoever.
- LesZedCB 3y ago
  I did one of those once and tried for three months to drive really carefully. in Boston. it basically broke me and my driving sanity for 6+ months and made me a really worse driver for a while, maybe permanently?? and my rate basically didn't change at all.

mvkel 3y ago

Love this kind of stuff.

atourgates 3y ago

I'm an Alaska (relatively) frequent flyer. That airline offers a free "messaging" plan, that lets you send and receive messages on apps like iMessage, Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp. Though, it somehow prevents images/attachments from coming through on those platforms. I've always wondered how this is implemented technically, and if it might be possible to setup some kind of protocol/wrapper to send data that looks like it's being sent over those protocols, but offers access to other parts of the internet.

sixstringtheory 3y ago
Could always send base64 data strings!
phantom784 3y ago
I'd suspect it kills TCP connections once a threshold of data has been transferred, and the threshold is enough to let text through but not enough for attachments.
- grishka 3y ago
  Good luck doing that against Telegram. It would simply reconnect and resume the download where it left off.
alexfoo 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33568994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33568994
organsnyder 3y ago
United wifi is similar. I've found that notifications work for most things, including my Home Assistant instance—they must all use the same Apple push service.
- atourgates 3y ago
  I noticed the same on Alaska flying last weekend. As soon as I activated the "Free Messaging" service, I got a bunch of notifications from my Apple Home and Google Nest devices.

notmysql_ 3y ago

Thats funny, I discovered the same thing a few months ago and built a CLI flight tracker[1] that uses the API. I've tried it across a couple of airlines and it worked almost perfectly across all of them, because they were all using the same in flight ISP. [1]: https://github.com/NalinPlad/OuterFlightTracker https://github.com/NalinPlad/OuterFlightTracker

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
That's cool! I had wanted to make something similar, but I didn't have enough experience with making TUIs to build it without using the internet for reference during the flight. I'm glad to that it's been done though!
- notmysql_ 3y ago
  Yeah, I was on a long flight home from a hackathon with some fellow programmers so it was fun to work on it together

gs17 3y ago

Glad someone looked into the flight tracker, I was always curious how real the data in it is. Although it doesn't answer my curiosity about how they manage to mess it up occasionally. I've had flight data from different flights pop up a few times on Southwest, which is never reassuring to see.

grepfru_it 3y ago
If it's the panasonic inflight system, it receives flight data from the FMS. If the system does not receive flight data from the FMS then it will not be up to date. Your browser could also be retrieving old cached content. Basically there is nothing about this system to assure you, it's entirely a secondary data-delayed system that is not critical to flight operations and as such can be INOP at anytime and no one will care.
- flutas 3y ago
  I honestly miss having to debug the racks at pana. But there were so many "what" level bugs with the systems. I remember DRM breaking multiple times for the IFE because they assigned the same IP to multiple devices.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - mulmen 3y ago
    Based on the current top comment those IPs may not have been assigned. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37693293 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37693293
  - grepfru_it 3y ago
    Worked on redboot, so i was probably the person you were cursing out
- gs17 3y ago
  > Your browser could also be retrieving old cached content. No, these are flights I couldn't physically have been on. Sometimes it is old content, but it's for the flight the plane took previously and doesn't update. Here's an example of it happening to someone else: https://community.southwest.com/t5/Inflight-Experience/Flight-Tracker-problem/td-p/92977 https://community.southwest.com/t5/Inflight-Experience/Fligh...

cirrus3 3y ago

Fun story =) Anyone else freaked out by that "time" format though? Seems like a strange choice, would have expected something more standard like ISO 8601 with timezone offset. "time": "Sun Sep 24 22:02:19 2023"

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
I felt similar! My best guess is that whoever designed this system preferred to transform the time into a localized (based on the flight's location, I guess?) representation on the server so that they could drop it directly into the web UI without much client-side logic.
hughes 3y ago
It looks like the default formatting used by `ctime`. Could be a clue about the underlying backend. https://cplusplus.com/reference/ctime/ctime/ https://cplusplus.com/reference/ctime/ctime/

latchkey 3y ago

I was just thinking that you could take a picture from the window and then tie the GPS coordinates to the image with the output from that JSON. Kind of handy.

jonah 3y ago
If you have location permissions enabled in your camera app, the image's exif data will have the coordinates in it. (US Civilian GPS units are prohibited from working above 60,000 ft above sea level and 1,000 knots due to ITAR munitions export restrictions.)
- pklausler 3y ago
  Stupid question: how do civilian GPS units know that they're above 60,000' or faster than 1000 knots without, um, working?
  - comprev 3y ago
    Maybe they read 60,000 even when at 62,000?
  - 0x457 3y ago
    Well, they work internally, just don't expose information to the outside.
  - lom 3y ago
    I’ve managed to get a GPS lock while flying, it just takes a few minutes to find one. Was it misreporting my position? because it usually matched up with what I saw outside of the window
    - extraduder_ire 3y ago
      Probably because you were in a large aluminium tube at the time, and had no internet to get the AGPS data, so it had to receive the orbital elements from the satellites. (IIRC, this can take as many as 24 minutes worst case) If you're using GNSS tracking on a flight, consider checking out the OSMand~ app for android. There's a map layout for flying, though I don't know if the navigation features work.

hocuspocus 3y ago

The speed unit looks more like knots than mph.

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
Good catch! I'm not very familiar with knots - what specifically makes the speeds here look like knots to you? edit: Updated the article. Thanks!
- KolmogorovComp 3y ago
  Airline planes never use mph but only knots.
  - jamesbvaughan 3y ago
    That makes sense. One reason I think it could be MPH despite that is because some of the other data seems like it's been processed so that it doesn't need to be transformed any further on the client side before using it in the UI, and the UI displays the speed in MPH. If I were still on the flight, I could just compare the numbers in these payloads to the MPH number in the UI and confirm.
    - mulmen 3y ago
      Based on the lat/long of your destination and the coordinates of the plane I believe the distance and speed actually are in miles and mph: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37694487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37694487
  - capableweb 3y ago
    Well, most airlines. I think both China and Russia already switched to SI units (so km/h), and supposedly ICAO recommends using km/h but there is exception for using knots and there is also no end date to stop using knots, so everyone just continues to use knots.
    - 3y ago

pogue 3y ago

What browser or extension has Copy as cURL and all those other functions?

idbehold 3y ago
Firefox
jamesbvaughan 3y ago
All chromium-based browsers have it in the network tab of the dev tools
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
isodev 3y ago
Safari has it out of the box in the web inspector.
alana314 3y ago
chrome
system2 3y ago
Inspect element (F12) > Network tab > when you refresh the screen check the header section to see the raw data. You can right click and copy curl or xor.

SirMaster 3y ago

I want to see someone build a proxy that uses the free iMessage or WhatsApp allowed connection to send arbitrary data. Like have a WhatsApp relay set up at home that you are sending messages to and from, from the plane. Like at a most basic level, send a message of a URL to your home WhatsApp which loads the web page there, and sends the HTML back as a WhatApp message reply so you can render it etc. Wonder what someone could all do and make work. edit Guess someone made a TCP relay using WhatApp already, neat.

jackconsidine 3y ago
I see you found that TCP relay- I've been dying to try it but I've heard of people successfully using it https://github.com/aleixrodriala/wa-tunnel https://github.com/aleixrodriala/wa-tunnel
darknavi 3y ago
https://github.com/aleixrodriala/wa-tunnel https://github.com/aleixrodriala/wa-tunnel
vzqx 3y ago
I've noticed that airline wifi doesn't block DNS traffic. You can likely accomplish the same thing with a DNS tunnel like Iodine (https://github.com/yarrick/iodine https://github.com/yarrick/iodine).
- bombcar 3y ago
  Sometimes they just redirect ALL DNS traffic to their little portal until you sign in/up.
- lazycouchpotato 3y ago
  Many years ago, I noticed I could browse the Google Play Store on a flight WiFi without paying for it. No images would load and no apps would download, but I could browse through app listings and read reviews. Would this be related to DNS?
  - 3y ago

billy99k 3y ago

I just took two delta flights in the US. The first had free Wifi through Tmobile. It marginally worked. It was just fast enough to view low-intensity websites and I was able to connect to my linux servers back home.

soupfordummies 3y ago

Fun read! Reminds me of the type of articles I would find in 2600. The hacker spirit at work :)

benced 3y ago

Another thing to notice: they use the highly nonstandard time zone abbreviation “PDT”. This works because they’re a US-only airline but if an international airline did this, they’d be in for a world of hurt.

xxpor 3y ago
PDT is extremely standard? http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/zoneinfo.tzc?s=default&tz=PST8PDT http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/zoneinfo.tzc?s=defa... Granted, I think everything should always be a UTC offset, but I'm also weird.
everly 3y ago
Is it really "highly nonstandard"? I thought it referred to Pacific Time during daylight savings. The rest of the time being PST (Pacific Standard Time).
wil421 3y ago
> Specifically, time in this zone is referred to as Pacific Standard Time (PST) when standard time is being observed (early November to mid-March), and Pacific Daylight Time (PDT) when daylight saving time (mid-March to early November) is being observed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Time_Zone#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20time%20in%20this%20zone,early%20November)%20is%20being%20observed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Time_Zone#:~:text=Sp.... What do you think is the correct format?
kube-system 3y ago
Southwest has international routes now to popular vacation destinations south of the US.
jdminhbg 3y ago
> This works because they’re a US-only airline They're not US-only (note that the response included a value for whether it was a non-US-including flight), but they are North/Central America/Caribbean-only.
recursive 3y ago

fer 3y ago

I belive this is OPs flight if anyone wants to compare plane data with ADS-B one. https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA2340/history/20230924/2030Z/KSTL/KOAK https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA2340/history/2023...

schoen 3y ago
Conceivably, the ADS-B data source might be the same as the data source for this API, at least in that they might be calculated from the same instruments and flight systems.
- fer 3y ago
  Potentially, but altitude and speed data on ADS-B are constrained to just 11 bits (+ 1 bit dedicated to the resolution: 25 vs 100-feet increments). So while I believe the data source is the same, one can see quantization artifacts when comparing both signals.
jamesbvaughan 3y ago
That is the flight. This is a cool idea - I wish I had thought of it!

api 3y ago

Fun fact: ZeroTier works in most cases on in-flight wifi without logging in. I guess they usually allow UDP.

TurkishPoptart 3y ago
Is this for connecting to a home device without paying for wifi?

cph123 3y ago

I did something similar on an easyJet flight, I wrote a little Python script to save the altitude and speed data from the free WiFi. They have a cool 3D WebGL rendering of the plane in the air like Flight Simulator, but the satellite imagery was really low res.

paul7986 3y ago

If you travel lite with clothes in a book bag(wash clothes if extended stay)… I don't see why anyone would fly United, Southwest, American Airlines, etc VS.the budget Airlines like Spirit. Maybe if you have points with those airlines… Otherwise, save hundreds of dollars using budget airlines which the planes are newer in my experience, and never had a bad experience versus my recent bad experiences with Delta and the others in which I paid a lot more for. Almost all airlines I've had to pay for Internet access, including Spirit so for me, I don't understand why I would fly all the more expensive airlines versus using Spirit. There's a lot of negative marketing out there about Spirit… After my 10 positive flights experiences in the last six months with them I don't believe the hype.

technothrasher 3y ago
Sometimes the budget airlines don't fly to where I'm going, or do so by long multi connecting routes. I'm currently sitting on an AA flight because it was the cheapest option with a reasonable travel time. Honestly, it kind of sucks for all the usual reasons, but I've at least got free wifi on my phone through some deal with T-Mobile.
dboreham 3y ago
> I don't see why anyone would fly United, Southwest, American Airlines, etc VS.the budget Airlines like Spirit. I'm on a spoke (not a hub) and just don't have the service available to use budget airlines even if I wanted to. We have JetBlue -- they fly to Boston and that's it. We have Allegiant and they fly to Phoenix (not really Phoenix -- Mesa), and we have Avelo they they fly to LA (not really LA: Burbank). All these airlines fly one flight per day, and often not every day of the week. When I'm traveling somewhere that works for the budget airlines, I'm still leery because if their plane breaks down or there is "weather in Cincinnati", I'm screwed. They don't have a second plane available. otoh we have United, Delta, American, Alaska, Southwest with flights to several hubs each, multiple flights per day, through international ticketing, first class sometimes open... Plus I don't pay for luggage on the major carriers due to credit card membership/status.
itslennysfault 3y ago
You must have buns of steel. I flew Spirit exactly once (well, twice, it was round-trip), and it was such a miserable experience I swore to never do it again. Their seats are made of concrete as far as I can tell. For domestic flights I pretty much always sit in the window and never get up during the flight. On spirit I had to get up and walk around after about 3 hours 'cause my ass was sore. Never again.

ardit33 3y ago

It is just 8 bucks for the full service... just buy the internet bro. It is actually pretty good.

s3p 3y ago
You're not understanding the point of the comment. The Flighty team did some amazing engineering work for anyone who doesn't pay.
- catiopatio 3y ago
  > amazing engineering Background updates are a built-in, supported, documented feature, widely employed by applications on the platform, and accessible to anyone that reads the two pages of documentation required to use them: “Pushing background updates to your App — Deliver notifications that wake your app and update it in the background.” https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/setting_up_a_remote_notification_server/pushing_background_updates_to_your_app https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/... edited for politeness
  - teaearlgraycold 3y ago
    Why is that toxic?
    - catiopatio 3y ago
      A cognitive filter that misrepresents reality is toxic.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - teaearlgraycold 3y ago
        That’s how all thought works.
  - 3y ago

jackconsidine 3y ago

Love the spirit of this article. The author could have Git-scraped [0] this info! https://simonwillison.net/2020/Oct/9/git-scraping/ https://simonwillison.net/2020/Oct/9/git-scraping/

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
This is cool - thanks for sharing

hackmiester 3y ago

Here is how to get the equivalent data on a Delta flight. $ curl https://wifi.delta.com/api/flight-data | jq % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed 100 448 100 448 0 0 5600 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 5743 { "timestamp": "2023-07-11T14:54:41Z", "eta": "17:48", "flightDuration": 278, "flightNumber": "DAL786", "latitude": 39.723472595214844, "longitude": -97.1514205932617, "noseId": "3879", "paState": false, "vehicleId": "N879DN", "destination": "KPDX", "origin": "KATL", "flightId": "N879DN_SF_20230711121358", "airspeed": null, "airTemperature": 24, "altitude": 33922, "distanceToGo": 179, "doorState": "Closed", "groundspeed": 442, "heading": -73, "timeToGo": 174, "wheelWeightState": "Off" } And a fun snippet for you. $ curl -s https://wifi.delta.com/api/flight-data | jq -r '"https://maps.google.com/?q=", .latitude, ",", .longitude' | tr -d '\n'; echo https://maps.google.com/?q=40.5615234375,-101.2824478149414

c7DJTLrn 3y ago
It would be nice if you could send a POST request to open the door if you want some fresh air.
- pwillia7 3y ago
  DELTE
- hackmiester 3y ago
  I tried to change the flight level by PATCHing altitude, but it seemed to require authentication. Oh well.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    This sounds like a good way to meet some upset people with expensive sunglasses shortly after you land.

benbristow 3y ago

I've done something similar on trains in the UK before, specifically LNER (was Virgin Trains East Coast at the time but don't think the Wi-Fi solution has changed) trains. The icomera captive portal has an endpoint which returns the GPS coordinates of the train along with the speed. And some other endpoints for next stops etc. Once made a little React app that showed the train on a Leaflet map. Was a good waste of a few hours.

pjot 3y ago

I have an American Airlines flight in a few hours. Looking forward to see what kind of data I can find now

1B05H1N 3y ago

Did you have permission to do that ? Sounds pretty risky to be probing the network of a flight imo.

Etheryte 3y ago
Are you aware what the website you're currently on is called?
- WendyTheWillow 3y ago
  Hackers talk about ethics and legality all the time!
jamesbvaughan 3y ago
No permission - just curiosity :) I'm not too concerned about the risk associated with fetching a JSON file that their flight status page is already fetching on a loop. That said, I'm curious what risks you have in mind.
- mulmen 3y ago
  > That said, I'm curious what risks you have in mind. Overzealous prosecutors.
fouc 3y ago
There's no "probing the network" involved here. The in-flight webpage was continuously fetching a specific end-point from the in-flight web server. This end-point is basically public data. All he did was duplicate what the webpage was already doing, and then do some basic analysis on the data the end-point was returning.
- mcast 3y ago
  Cybersecurity and internet crime laws are notoriously outdated (created in the 80s). I could see a bad lawyer arguing that cURLing an API repeatedly is “hacking”.

sswaner 3y ago

On many United flights you can connect to onboard wifi without buying the plan and have internet access on port 22 and apparently unrestricted UDP. This allows me to connect to an EC2 instance running mosh. Coding in vim is a great way to pass the time on a flight.

system2 3y ago
Can't you create an SSH tunnel to a machine and RDP with it? Then you'd have fully functioning internet.

Thaxll 3y ago

Reminds me how old and unsecure those system used to be, years ago they would perform DNS queries but block most traffic, meaning that you could get free internet by using DNS tunneling. Same for the movies on board, if they have some apps and not just movies in front seat, you can use vlc, ffmpeg to download / watch the movie without ads / interruption. When I was doing some digging they used a lot of Panasonic solution and open source stuff such as squid cache, apache http. https://na.panasonic.com/ca/industries/avionics https://na.panasonic.com/ca/industries/avionics

alexellisuk 3y ago

What did you use to create your graphics?

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
I used chart.js [0], but I don't necessarily endorse it - it's just what I knew how to use quickly. I usually try to keep my posts free from javascript, and could have used a different tool that gives me SVG data or images. You can see the code that's generating these charts here: https://github.com/jamesbvaughan/jamesbvaughan.com/blob/main/content/posts/southwest-wifi/charts.js https://github.com/jamesbvaughan/jamesbvaughan.com/blob/main... [0] https://www.chartjs.org/ https://www.chartjs.org/
- alexellisuk 3y ago
  Thanks

luc_ 3y ago

this is such a wholesome nerd post. i love it.

dramm 3y ago

“According to this data, the plane’s altitude was only fluctuating by about 20-30 feet. This is more stable than I expected!” Autopilots are very good and they are servoing to the pressure altitude. Many pressure altitude encoders used in modern aircraft (for example to drive altitudes that transponders report to SSR radar or via ADS-B) have 25 ft encoding resolution. That 25ft resolution is likely what is being seen here. Other encoders have 10 ft resolution but 25 ft is very common.

jfim 3y ago
A plane going up and down 20-30 feet seems like it would be very unpleasant. Considering that there's longitude and latitude, isn't it more likely that the altitude is coming from GPS, which is notoriously inaccurate with regards to elevation?
- chatmasta 3y ago
  Maybe the plane is staying level but the ground is variable terrain.
  - rockostrich 3y ago
    Elevation is relative to sea level, not the ground.
    - funnyflywheel 3y ago
      This only holds true if you’re flying at or above the transition altitude. The transition altitude depends on where you’re flying: for example, in the USA and Canada it’s 18_000 feet MSL.
      - danbtl 3y ago
        It's still sea-level. The transition altitude just changes the altimeter setting from one that matches the current air pressure to a standard pressure setting.

MayeulC 3y ago

Ah, interesting. I guess this could be used by UnifiedNLP: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.sorunome.unifiednlp.trains/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.sorunome.unifiednlp.train... Also, KDE Itinerary: https://invent.kde.org/pim/itinerary/-/blob/master/src/app/SettingsPage.qml#L194 https://invent.kde.org/pim/itinerary/-/blob/master/src/app/S... I'm off pinging the relevant projects :)

not2b 3y ago

But SouthWest will give you a much prettier display of that same data (track your flight, see the current altitude and ETA, and a lot more, like the plane's position on the map) without paying for their WiFi. My guess is that they are using the same data that article writer wrote a program to process. Essentially there is one site you can visit for free and that's where it is.

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
Yep, that's exactly right! They have a nice status page that you can visit free of charge that visualizes this data. I chose to scrape it for a couple reasons: 1. I wanted see all of the data for the entire flight - that status page only visualizes the current values. 2. It was fun!
- fragmede 3y ago
  Plus there's no Internet. What're you going to do, read a book?
coffeebeqn 3y ago
I was on some US flight recently - maybe Alaskan airlines - and they basically had a LAN box with movies and shows accessible on wifi without internet access
samwhiteUK 3y ago
Thank you. That answers the question I had which was, "why does trying to get the portal page return a load of data about the plane?"

warkdarrior 3y ago

> I didn’t know what I’d do with the data at this point, but I started collecting it right away so that I’d have as much as possible to play with later. And people complain that everything everywhere collects data on everyone.

mulmen 3y ago
The complaint is collecting data on others. Specifically the complaint is on others collecting data on me.

ejcx 3y ago

I have a similar program I run that does this stuff for United flights: https://github.com/ejcx/uwc/blob/master/uwc.go https://github.com/ejcx/uwc/blob/master/uwc.go The code is horrendous but it has worked for years and I guess when I wrote it originally I didn't want to use a go struct for some reason?

dekhn 3y ago

Wait, doesn't everybody set up a prometheus/grafana dashboard for each flight to show the telemetry?

system2 3y ago
I usually connect to the cockpit directly with rj45 to keep it stable. Sometimes even talk to the pilot with the encrypted coms.
- H8crilA 3y ago
  Talking to the pilots costs about $200 and is really easy, though very illegal - just find out which ATC freq are they currently on and transmit, from a handheld radio or a HackRF. You could also transmit on Guard. If you prefer to text rather than speak you can send them ACARS, with roughly the same hardware. Though if you use a handheld radio you'll also need a laptop to generate the baseband signal, as I don't think there are any commercially available ACARS transmitters. (Please never do this, you'll go to jail for a long time).
  - dekhn 3y ago
    I just listen (with an SDR, I never got a HackRF because I don't transmit). Where I live I can see planes on approach to SFO and can cross-reference flight codes on the radio with planes that I can see flying by and on flightradar.

aplusbi 3y ago

The `ac` in `actime24` probably means `arrival city`.

wesapien 3y ago

What software did you use to do the visuals? I want to try this out.

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
I used chart.js [0], but I don't necessarily endorse it - it's just what I knew how to use quickly. I usually try to keep my posts free from javascript, and could have used a different tool that gives me SVG data or images. You can see the code that's generating these charts here: https://github.com/jamesbvaughan/jamesbvaughan.com/blob/main https://github.com/jamesbvaughan/jamesbvaughan.com/blob/main... [0] https://www.chartjs.org/ https://www.chartjs.org/

mavili 3y ago

Almost a duplicate, but actually not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37692832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37692832

sciencerobot 3y ago

Just make sure to never send a PATCH request

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
Considering how delayed that flight was, I'd have loved to be able to PATCH the `dist_remain` field.

commandlinefan 3y ago

When my son was younger - maybe 9 or 10 or so, we were on a plane and he was using his phone and I looked over his shoulder and realized he was on the internet... but I hadn't paid for an internet plan. I said, "son, how are you using the internet?" He said, "oh, a kid at school showed me - if you go here" (he opened up the wifi settings where the DHCP assigned IP address is) "and start changing the numbers, eventually the internet will work." Apparently, at the time, on American Airlines, when somebody bought and paid for an internet plan, it gave them an IP address and authorized it to use the internet... if somebody else guessed your IP address (which was pretty easy, it was a 192.168 address) and spoofed it, they could take over your internet connection with no further authorization. I had to tell him not to do that, but I was kind of proud of him for having the temerity to go for it.

wferrell 3y ago
This is an amazing story. Thanks for posting.
KMnO4 3y ago
I used to do the same thing at hotels. Still often works. nmap -sn 192.168.0.1-255 To find everyone on the network, then start spoofing each of their MACs until you find one that works
- savrajsingh 3y ago
  I should probably know the answer, but what happens when two devices have the same MAC address?
  - queuebert 3y ago
    Only one way to find out.
  - commandlinefan 3y ago
    No way to tell for sure, but I can only assume that he had actually hijacked somebody else's connection and the other person's device stopped working for them. I sure wasn't going to stand up and ask the plane if anybody had had their internet plan hacked...

punnerud 3y ago

Nice trick with the watch to download periodic: watch -n 30 "curl https://getconnected.southwestwifi.com/current.json https://getconnected.southwestwifi.com/current.json | jq -c >> flight-logs" I often use crontab, but this looks easier for testing. Thanks.

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
Yeah, if this were something that I wanted to leave running for more than the duration of a flight, I'd reach for cron, but a bash one-liner was perfect for this use-case!

kristopolous 3y ago

On redeye international flights with exorbitant WiFi fees I'll admit to scanning for MAC addresses, get the top talkers, then come back later when ones been idle for like 15 minutes, presuming the person is asleep and change my mac to take the address and get online. I just did it for fun, ok fine.

kkyr 3y ago
How do you determine who the top talkers are?
- sneak 3y ago
  The wi-fi on planes is not encrypted.
  - cromka 3y ago
    Even if it was, you’d still see the top talkers
- cromka 3y ago
  By setting the WiFi card into monitor mode, and using by e.g. Kismet for data collection.
  - kristopolous 3y ago
    I did it with tshark but yes this is a pretty easy problem to solve. I think I even made a script in lua to do it automatically

javier_e06 3y ago

Fun fact: I used to work for a company that provided equipment and services for satcom. The price tier and license for airborne communication was higher and we had software calculating the speed and if the speed went over 300 m/hr or alike it will check your license features and expiration date. If you forgot to pay your bill, no wifi for ya! We did not use altitude for obvious reasons.

the_mitsuhiko 3y ago

I added flight status on airlines I fly into my shell prompt from the wifi status. It’s surprisingly fun. https://x.com/mitsuhiko/status/866601971565944832?s=46&t=xvVku2nNB5qI0ZzjVKuITw https://x.com/mitsuhiko/status/866601971565944832?s=46&t=xvV...

TrackerFF 3y ago

Yes, that's standard data which is broadcasted to the passengers via the plane app/website. Usually the apps will have some "show position" feature where you can see position, speed, altitude, ETA, etc.

xhkkffbf 3y ago

On one of the earlier flights with wifi, I found that my Google docs were saving correctly even though I didn't pay for the wifi upcharge. The router wasn't blocking those ports. It seems like this has changed recently. Too bad.

yread 3y ago

We messed around on a recent KLM flight and what's interesting is that you get a DNS prefix of klm.com in DHCP (or some ms extension of it). The gateway has a name of www that allows you to access www.klm.com even though no name servers are accessible so DNS shouldn't work.

macinjosh 3y ago

Pretty sure all these hacks and tips for getting free Wi-Fi aren't actually very legal. Sure the chances of getting caught are small, but you are also stealing connectivity someone else paid for by spoofing their mac address. Something, something, mucking about with an airliner even if its just the wifi could probably be twisted into some sort of federal aviation offense too.

munro 3y ago

I've always wanted to bring a lil router like a GL.iNet, pay for internet, then share it free for everyone on the plane hehe

josu 3y ago
Why not just use the hotspot on your phone?
- MostlyStable 3y ago
  I believe that you can't both simultaneously provide wifi hotspot and use wifi internet (at least, I couldn't on a phone several years ago last time I tried it). I think you can only do that if the network the phone is using is accessed via the cellular modem.
  - pests 3y ago
    That used to be the case but it has changed now. Probably depends on the phone broadband chipset used. These days you can passthru your WiFi or even a wired connection (via USB to a connected PC or a Ethernet-to-USB adapter) via a Hotspot.
  - ikjasdlk2234 3y ago
    You can on Android, and have for some time IIRC. This is how I get free wifi on my computer by passing it through my T-Mobile phone.
  - mbesto 3y ago
    Correct. My GL-E750 Mudi has a repeater function: https://docs.gl-inet.com/router/en/3/setup/gl-e750/internet/#2-repeater https://docs.gl-inet.com/router/en/3/setup/gl-e750/internet/... My iPhone does not.
  - Eavolution 3y ago
    I absolutely can, that's how I connect my ps4 to my uni accommodation internet as it's mschapv2 or smth the ps4 can't connect to. I know it's definitely using the wifi and not my mobile data as my data usage for the day is unchanged after I've downloaded a game. Cheap Chinese android phone from 2020 (or maybe 2021 can't remember).

bowsamic 3y ago

What a waste of time

userbinator 3y ago

I was expecting an article about a LAN party aboard a flight.

ern 3y ago

Airlines have a moving map on their captive wifi portals. Didn’t know it was rendered client side though. Something to try when I next fly.

TheHappyOddish 3y ago

For those not in (I presume) the US, "Southwest" appears to be the name of an airline. I was disappointed to find out this wasn't a puzzle to solve when only travelling in a specific direction, but still an interesting read.

demondemidi 3y ago

This is just the raw data from the in-flight GUI. Is that it? What am I missing?

teacpde 3y ago
Nothing, I believe this gets the upvotes simply because it is fun.
- demondemidi 3y ago
  Good point: I upvoted it! :)

pperi11 3y ago

I remember when buying wifi on a plane was sooooo forbidden by my parents. Now i literally buy wifi on every flight lol

RagnarD 3y ago

I have to wonder if some eager LEO would try to find some illegality in this, especially given all of the federal laws around aircraft. Obviously it's innocuous, but I'd think twice about writing about this kind of tinkering for that reason.

justinclift 3y ago

In this fragment here: // This looks like info about the system's satellite internet connection. "sat_commlink_portal": { // The connection is okay! "status": "conn_ok", // I'm not sure what this time is. // It hasn't changed at all. "time": "Sun Sep 24 22:02:19 2023" The "time" field could be the timestamp of when the status field last changed. That's the most obvious thought anyway. :)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

flemhans 3y ago

I remember the days when I poked around like that too, and go to 128.65.70.1 and find the Hughes admin interface for the satellite link itself.

birdyrooster 3y ago

WiFi with internet if you use a DNS VPN, they are handy and cost you nothing to use

mmaunder 3y ago

Bring a Stratus, Sentry or open source equivalent with and you can get that data for most other aircraft within line of site in real-time, along with weather, radar, pilot reports and more.

suction 3y ago

[dead]

philprx 3y ago

actime24 is possibly for Arrival City time, not aircraft time. Fun research!

ggm 3y ago

does anyone think the marginal cost of internet in flight may drop to free? It's already commonly rolled up in J class seats.

H8crilA 3y ago

You can also get an SDR (a $50 RTL-SDR will do) and listen to your own plane's ADS-B signal. For visualization you can use tar1090. Private Flightradar24. With the same SDR you can also listen to the ATC comms, as well as see ACARS messages. It's a bit tedious to listen to ATC and your own pilots, but you'll know exactly why your plane is delayed.

tempestn 3y ago

Anyone else halfway through reading, already thinking this would be a great way to end up on a TSA watchlist?

ingen0s 3y ago

fun!

allarm 3y ago

Read this post while traveling on an ICE train. I decided to see if there was something similar in DB WiFi - and it turns out you can get two json files with current trip data. Here's a graph of the train speed for the last hour of my trip: km/h ice train speed 160 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | + + + + + ** + | |* ** | 140 |*+ ** +-| |* ** | |* ** | 120 |*+ ** +-| | * * * | | * * * | 100 |-* * * +-| | * * * * | 80 |-* ** ** * ** +-| | * ** *** * * | | * ** * ** | 60 |-+* * ** * ** +-| | * **** * ** * ** | | * * * * * * * | 40 |-+ ****** * **** ** * * +-| | ***** * **** * ** | | * * * * ** | 20 |-+ * * * * ** +-| | * * * * ** | | + * * * + + + *+ * + | 0 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 350 count

gregfjohnson 3y ago

This is why I love hacker news. I was sitting in the waiting area at Long Beach Airport about to board a Southwest flight when I read this article. Did the hack, it worked spectacularly. I didn't have jq installed, but whipped up a python script with 'import json', watched the data stream the whole flight. Thanks a million for posting this!

dtjohnnymonkey 3y ago

This is fun. I used to build these REST APIs for airlines (not Southwest though). Fun to see them get some attention!

gslepak 3y ago

Why don't all the images load in Firefox?

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
I just took a look on my machine and the images are all loading in Firefox. If they're still not loading for you, would you mind sharing more info? Are you just getting 404s?

intellix 3y ago

When I don't have internet and nothing else to do, I'll spend the entire flight trying to get free internet

willhackett 3y ago

I remember doing something similar on a flight until a flight attendant, very confused, asked me how I had all of the graphs from the flight deck on my laptop. Was a funny conversation, especially giving Panasonic (who made the inflight flight tracker) exposes way more data on their API than I could get in the airline’s provided view.

kantorkel 3y ago

Thank you for sharing this story. That motivated me to write mine down: WiFi without internet on a Marabu flight https://marx.wtf/2023/09/30/wifi-without-internet-on-a-marabu-flight/ https://marx.wtf/2023/09/30/wifi-without-internet-on-a-marab...

jamesbvaughan 3y ago
This is great! Thanks for sharing.

shortformblog 3y ago

When I was 13, I got a modem, and I would frequently call MeritNet lines to see how far I could get on the locked-down Lynx browser without a login, not having access to type in any addresses myself. If I managed to get on an interesting page before I was eventually booted off, I won. Tided me over until I actually got to use an ISP.

spandextwins 3y ago

What happened to the notion that the internet should be free and open?

ahmadznz 3y ago

Check out https://flightradar24.com https://flightradar24.com