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China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

• brundolf 5y ago
  I wonder how Blizzard is feeling about throwing in with the CCP right about now
  • rolobio 5y ago
    Probably having a hard time thinking straight with all the piles of money around them?
    • brundolf 5y ago
      Their massive, important new market for expansion just got a whole lot smaller
      • rolobio 5y ago
        This only effects children. Plenty of room to expand into adults, for now.
    • blibble 5y ago
      they've lost 50% of their users in 4 years and this was before the recent PR disaster
      • jayd16 5y ago
        Probably has little to do with China.
        • blibble 5y ago
          which is why this decision will be such a blow they made the calculation that losing some percentage of their western markets to appease the CCP was worth it and now they're going to lose that too couldn't happen to a group of nicer people
      • mbesto 5y ago
        > they've lost 50% of their users in 4 years Blizzard maybe, but Blizzard is owned by ATVI and are still growing top line revenue QoQ: https://www.reuters.com/companies/ATVI.OQ/financials/income-statement-quarterly https://www.reuters.com/companies/ATVI.OQ/financials/income-... So, yes the company is technically still in "piles of cash" ($2.8B net cash from operations in 2020 for example).
  • zpeti 5y ago
    They are probably too busy pretending to be activist and on the side of minorities in the western world, ie taking zero risks pretending to be virtuous. In the meantime the actual authoritarians who are persecuting religions and minorities are walking all over them and getting them to comply.
    • bopbeepboop 5y ago
      I find it interesting how many companies “condemn mistreatment of minorities” in the US… then are silent on Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs. Where is Blizzards statement that Chinese abuse of Uyghurs is wrong? — where are the protest banners and digital events?
  • bArray 5y ago
    > I wonder how Blizzard is feeling about throwing in with the CCP right about now I'm wondering how many foreign investors in the Chinese market are feeling right now. They were warned over and over again, and continued to invest with the promise of short-term gains. This exact lack of foresight caused the 2008 financial crisis and will continue to cause many other financial disasters in the future. A few good rules I've heard are 1) Don't invest in a Country that won't easily give you a visa, 2) Only invest in Countries that have stable and accountable governments (democracies), 3) Diversify to prevent a single point of failure. The same reason you cannot negotiate with the Taliban is the same reason you cannot reason with the CPP. You cannot reason with a state led purely by an ideology. Ultimately, push comes to shove, the ideology blindly comes first. If Capitalism fails at all but one thing, it's that it is able to admit it's own failures and adapt, even co-exist with other ideologies if allowed. Where does this leave the HN startup? Consider investing locally into people and systems you can trust and understand. As some of the largest and oldest companies know, stability can be better in the long-run at the cost of profit margins.
  • bigbillheck 5y ago
    They're having too much fun harassing employees to care.
  • scruple 5y ago
    Doesn't Tencent flat out own Riot? I'd be much more interested in understanding what they (Tencent) think of this.
    • firebird84 5y ago
      No, they own a significant minority stake.
      • dxhdr 5y ago
        They acquired the entire company in 2015. You are probably thinking of Epic Games.
• mrfusion 5y ago
  Sadly when I hear news like this my first reaction is wondering when it’s coming to the US :-(
  • seattle_spring 5y ago
    Do you feel the same restrictions should be put in place for social media, TV, and non-educational books as well?
    • mrfusion 5y ago
      I feel like you’re agreeing with me?
      • seattle_spring 5y ago
        Not at all, just curious if you're consistent. Maybe we should ban listening to "harmful" music? Hell, let's ban playing instruments all together. Unless you're playing Christian rock of course.
        • mrfusion 5y ago
          I’m against all restrictions. I guess my comment was confusing? We could agree to disagree on whether we agree. Lol.
          • seattle_spring 5y ago
            Sorry, I've worked with so many puritans that I assumed you were expressing their sentiment. Yes I agree with never adding restrictions on media.
        • Shish2k 5y ago
          I’m very confused because to me it doesn’t look like either of you have expressed an opinion, so what are you claiming to agree or disagree with? (eg “When is this coming to the US?” looks to me like a neutral question, neither for nor against the policy)
• kordlessagain 5y ago
  Like with Bitcoin regulation, good luck to the governments with enforcement.
  • brundolf 5y ago
    All game companies operating in China, software and hardware, have to go through the CCP. They could definitely force companies to add software timers that automatically shut games down when a time limit is reached.
    • cracell 5y ago
      Sure but this is like DRM. You just create an arms war. Underage users would find ways to appear to be 18 or older. Or use multiple accounts to continue playing. This is already common in many grind games. You have support accounts that feed the main account items. Or just straight up hacking the timer system. Or playing games published outside if China. Where there's a will, there's a way.
      • brundolf 5y ago
        Remember we're talking about a totalitarian regime, where using real IDs for digital accounts is already a thing. Where importing unapproved foreign media is (presumably) banned. Where you can't so much as get a VPN without permission. I'm sure some people will find ways around it, but I don't think that will be the norm.
        • Gunax 5y ago
          I dont see it working any differently than piracy. If people can hack the bytecode to appear as though the game has received a valid key, I dont see why they cannot do the same for these restrictions.
          • brundolf 5y ago
            And the code or techniques for doing so will get scrubbed from the internet. Individuals may independently figure it out, but they'll be a drop in the bucket.
• mrfusion 5y ago
  I wonder why China feels so afraid of games.
  • saxonww 5y ago
    Most of the answers here are about games being addictive and a time waste, but what about communication? I actually have no idea about this - is in-game communication in e.g. fortnite able to be monitored? If not, and if the CCP is as interested in controlling discussion as people in the West think they are, online games are a problem. Youth are supposed to be more impressionable and easily influenced. So, the CCP may just be trying to limit competition.
  • devit 5y ago
    They are addictive and conditioning and thus compete with the social conditioning from the Chinese government.
    • bayesian_horse 5y ago
      With that logic you'd expect the Chinese government to force the gaming companies to do the conditioning for them... Addiction to Online/PC Gaming is a real problem in China.
  • throwaway5752 5y ago
    Trying to look at from their point of view and in good faith, excessive childhood gaming seem to be causing problems for some people like stunting their personal and intellectual development. China seems to be taking a stance that their citizens are a human resource for their country, and excessive gaming is hurting their asset.
    • TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
      > like stunting their personal and intellectual development This. And social development. What are the implications of having all of your friends online and never met them in real life?
• namelessoracle 5y ago
  I have mixed feelings about this. Younger me learned a lot of problem solving skills and most importantly spent a lot of time learning how to read by playing RPGs and games that required lots of reading. My reading skills would not have been as advanced if i wasn't playing text heavy games that had a lot of plot like Square Enix games and the CRPGs of the time. Modern games though are clearly designed to get you as addicted as possible and to play as long as possible to an extent that made the old school 90s RPGs grinds look tame and mild. (the grinds in those games basically existing to make sure you had to play long enough to not be able to return it to the store or beat it via rental) Modern UX of games is designed so that you dont have to really read or understand the game mechanics even to be able to play and get into that feedback loop. To the point where when a game comes along like Dark Souls that asks you to learn the game systems to beat it, gamers go gah gah over "how hard" it is.
  • bserge 5y ago
    I haven't played a good game in nearly a decade. I used to play them for the story, then it all became too grindy, trainers became moneymakers (yeah I used cheats, sue me, I played for fun), everything needs a fking Internet connection and anticheat software that does god knows what. Kinda sad.
    • darknavi 5y ago
      There are still plenty of non-garbage games if you wade out further than AAA. My friend group played Valheim a few months ago and it was spectacular (for the weekend anyways). It's a great game to lose your self in the environments and doesn't have any IAP rubbish.
      • katbyte 5y ago
        Even some AAA games have amazing story, but few and far between and a good number of the ones i'd point someone at are exclusive to ps4/ps5
      • Aeolun 5y ago
        I really don’t understand what people see in this game. It’s not bad, sure, but it’s almost a walking simulator. Getting resources feels pretty grindy, and the abilities and leveling system feel lackluster to me.
• tgv 5y ago
  Anyone want to argue why this would be bad, apart from restricting freedom? BTW, nothing in the article about limits on TikTok or YouTube or whathaveyougot. That's as much opium as gaming, IMO.
  • brodouevencode 5y ago
    > apart from restricting freedom? Do you need any more than that? From the western point of view this is the apex reason. EDIT: To add - it is true in the west that minors don't enjoy all the same freedoms as adults. However for most things those decisions are made by the parents and not the state.
    • hollerith 5y ago
      Individual freedom might still be the most important organizing principle in the US, but in Western Europe?
      • brodouevencode 5y ago
        Not sure why you're getting downvoted, there's something to this comment. Western Europe is where Judeo-Christian values married up with Greek and Roman societal models and produced (yes, there are obvious exceptions like religion) democracy, free speech, and capitalism. I also understand that this particular statement is a blanket statement open to nuance and is partially incorrect, but it's mostly correct. However in very recent times (hate speech mandates) this seems to be changing.
    • omarhaneef 5y ago
      We restrict a lot of freedoms for the under-18 crowd though. Purely in terms of freedom -- without arguing for any other pros and cons -- is this worse than mandatory school attendance, or not being able to vote, or take medical decisions for themselves, or whatever else kids cannot do these days.
      • brodouevencode 5y ago
• imbnwa 5y ago
  From the perpsective of someone who doesn't know too much details, China's ability to nope its way out of the social excesses of liberal capitalism is somewhat amazing here. I'm guessing they took a look at Korea and Japan's well-known issues with young men isolating themselves enabled by the high availability of online gaming and said "nah". Both of those countries are also experiencing widening gaps in hetero gender relations whereby there's a big issue with how many people are unmarried past their 30s into middle-age, and I imagine the CCP is not interested in either unregulated population controls or having to erect infrastructure to cater to elderly and middle-aged single people as is already happening in Korea. Also related to the notion that the real estate game is nominally designed to accomodate single people graduating from apartments to houses as married couples.
  • baq 5y ago
    it does look like a very small part of their attempt to solve the looming demographics crisis - to get men out of their caves and have them start families.
  • SonicScrub 5y ago
    I can see what problem they are trying to avoid, but this is treating symptoms and not problems. Why do so many young men in Japan and Korea (and heck, the West too although to a lesser degree) retreat from society into <insert vice here>? Narrow culture ideas of what "success" is, and personal relationships being dependent on reaching that definition of "success"? Lack of meaning found in career? Inability to find meaning in things outside of your career because there is no work-life balance? Video games are just a popular form of escapism. Limiting access will just drive people to other forms of escapism (potentially more dangerous ones) unless these underlying issues are solved.
    • sudosysgen 5y ago
      You could argue that recent Chinese crackdowns on bad working conditions and excessive cram schools do part of that. I agree it's nowhere near enough.
• omarhaneef 5y ago
  I have an idea for Footloose 3: Pacman
• anovikov 5y ago
  But this is silly and unenforceable, you can just as well prevent people from masturbating. Of course, people will massively opt out of totalitarianism especially as it is going crazier and crazier by the day - there are 18 "institutes" devoted to "studies" of Xi's personal "ideas" alone - this is literally half step away from the ridiculous Mao days. Those who can leave the country, will do so, and they are doing it already and have always been. The rest will simply "lie flat" (Chinese term) as a way of passive resistance.
• ddtaylor 5y ago
  My understanding is that South Korea already does this to some extent with users having to be over 18 or having a Pro Gaming license to play after some hour. The result has not been that the vast majority of SK gamers promptly log off at said hour. The result has been the majority of them connect to non SK servers immediately at said hour or use a friends account.
  • colinmhayes 5y ago
    China was already restricting minors to 8 hours a week.
  • ihuman 5y ago
    That law was abolished a few days ago https://www.engadget.com/south-korea-gaming-shutdown-law-end-163212494.html https://www.engadget.com/south-korea-gaming-shutdown-law-end...
    • ddtaylor 5y ago
      Thanks. Amazing timing!
  • make3 5y ago
    Are you saying China can't enforce this? the difference is that China is able to actually apply the law, with it's fire wall and unprecedently separated tech infrastrure. It may also threaten the companies to straight up boot them from China if they don't comply.
    • Seb-C 5y ago
      People will just start to crack the games to remove this rule, and use private self-hosted servers imho.
      • make3 5y ago
        and get sent to the gulag
• bserge 5y ago
  How are they realistically gonna enforce it?
  • ailun 5y ago
    They force the gaming companies to use real-name ID and face verification.
  • jimbilly22 5y ago
    same way it's always done. Pick and choose enforcement based on whims, political opponents or anyone otherwise whom they target.
  • falcolas 5y ago
    Look back to July's news of Tencent implementing facial recognition via smartphones for an example.
• cyberpsybin 5y ago
  Based
• hollerith 5y ago
  The rates of rule breaking and law breaking are much higher in China than they are in the West. One of my goals if I were in charge of the Chinese government would be to get that rate down by making what rules and laws I introduce easy to enforce (and easy to understand and to follow). In particular, if I were going to impose this kind of ban, I would've made it apply to everyone, not just under-18s. Well, actually, I would've made 2 tiers of restrictions, the looser tier allowing more hours per week, so that if a boy escapes the stricter tier of restrictions (e.g., by signing in with the credentials of an adult in his life) he still has some limits on how much he can play.
  • zepto 5y ago
    > a boy Seems odd that you’d only apply this to boys.
    • hollerith 5y ago
      I'd apply it to girls, too. I was assuming (but do not want to defend the claim) that most of the children wanting to play more than the allowed amount of time will be boys.
• lhorie 5y ago
  For those comparing to western standards, note that this is just an increase on existing regulation. According to wikipedia[0], China has had regulation limiting underage video game play time from as early as 2005, meaning that most children there have never actually lived in times when underage unrestricted play was allowed. So in terms of "voice", this is akin to parents deciding what's good for children, except on a national scale. > China has sought to deal with addiction to video games by its youth by enacting regulations to be implemented by video game publishers aimed to limit consecutive play time particularly for children. As early as 2005 China's Ministry of Culture has enacted several public health efforts to address gaming and internet related disorders. One of the first systems required by the government was launched in 2005 to regulate adolescents' Internet use, including limiting daily gaming time to 3 hours and requiring users' identification in online video games. In 2007, an "Online Game Anti-Addiction System" was implemented for minors, restricting their use to 3 hours or less per day. The ministry also proposed a "Comprehensive Prevention Program Plan for Minors’ Online Gaming Addiction" in 2013, to promulgate research, particularly on diagnostic methods and interventions. China's Ministry of Education in 2018 announced that new regulations would be introduced to further limit the amount of time spent by minors in online games. While these regulations were not immediately binding, most large Chinese publishers took steps to implement the required features. For example, Tencent restricted the amount of time that children could spend playing one of its online games, to one hour per day for children 12 and under, and two hours per day for children aged 13-18. This is facilitated by tracking players via their state-issued identification numbers. This has put some pressure on Western companies that publish via partners in China on how to apply these new anti-addiction requirements into their games, as outside of China, tracking younger players frequently raises privacy concerns. Specialized versions of games, developed by the Chinese partner, have been made to meet these requirements without affecting the rest of the world; Riot Games let its China-based studio implement the requirements into League of Legends for specialized release in China. > A new law enacted in November 2019 limits children under 18 to less than 90 minutes of playing video games on weekdays and three hours on weekends, with no video game playing allowed between 10 p.m. to 8 a.m. These are set by requiring game publishers to enforce these limits based on user logins. Additionally, the law limits how much any player can spend on microtransactions, ranging from about $28 to $57 per month depending on the age of the player.[126] In September 2020, the government implemented its own name-based authentication system to be made available to all companies to uphold these laws.[1] So China is quite serious about it, even going as far as tying playtime to their national id system (which westerners are probably going to balk at), and imposing limits to micro-transactions for underage players (which, I think, is actually a good thing). It's interesting that eyesight issues are also brought up as a rationale (especially considering the school cramming culture there). Kind of a mixed bag IMHO, but alas, what'd you expect from mass-implemented regulations? [0][1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_games_in_China#Government_oversight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_games_in_China#Governmen....
• scythe 5y ago
  The biggest problem with this legislation seems to be not its intended target (youth gaming), but the fact that, since it is likely to be very difficult to enforce and a lot of kids will try to break the rules, it opens up a wide opportunity for selective enforcement - $opposition_politician lets his kids game too much, $foreign_company has ineffective age verification for their online servers, et cetera. With that said, I'm not surprised to find people in the West wondering what else we're going to do about "artificial addictions".
• artur_makly 5y ago
  Finally I have an official excuse to tell my 9yr old why he must curtail his addiction. "You want daddy to go to Chinese jail???"
  • coolspot 5y ago
    Rule #1 of parenting 2020+: “Don’t stand in a way between a 9yo and Roblox” They will absolutely send you in jail rather than give up Roblox/MC/Youtube.
• runnr_az 5y ago
  Presumably, a market for video game time will emerge…
• sudosysgen 5y ago
  To note, this only applies to online games. The restrictions are supposed to be server side only.
  • falcolas 5y ago
    Tencent is implementing facial recognition on phones to enforce this. I don't believe we can realistically claim it's server-side only. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/08/business/video-game-facial-recognition-tencent.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/08/business/video-game-facia...
    • sudosysgen 5y ago
      The facial recognition is in order to make sure the user of the game corresponds to the ID they logged in with. It still only applies to online videogames.
      • falcolas 5y ago
        Mobile games, actually. No specific word of whether they have to be online games (whose definition is pretty vague these days - singleplayer games like Diablo III require a login and internet connection to play singleplayer). > The new functions will initially be used on around 60 mobile games, including the massively popular "Honor of Kings" multiplayer battle game, which boasts over 100 million daily users.
        • sudosysgen 5y ago
          If you read the article, you will see that the ID is specifically to link users to the already existing player ID verification system. That system applies only to online games. Purely single player games are exempted from the ID system, so the facial recognition system is not useful. Diablo III is a bad example in that it's actually an online multiplayer game now. It didn't use to be, but I think it was planned all along. Beyond that if it means kids won't play online-only single player games with all of the economic impacts that has on these games I think that's a very different thing. But that's not actually the case rn.
• lhorie 5y ago
  People talking about the benefits of games reminds me of people talking about the benefits of, say, a glass of wine with every meal: it's worth looking into but at the same time it's the sort of thing that obviously doesn't scale linearly with the amount/intensity of consumption. I similarly have mixed feelings as well, but for slightly different reasons. I've read about studies that say that musical training (which is often believed to translate to improvements in other cognitive aspects of life) doesn't actually correlate to said improvements, and I suspect that the same might be true for games (e.g. solving game puzzles doesn't necessarily mean you get better at school math or whatever) This line of reasoning is also supported by research on correlation between games and violence (i.e. the consensus is that no such causation relationship exists). All of these suggest (to me) that gaming is just its own activity without much impact on life other than opportunity cost itself. However, there are some aspects of gaming that can affect overall well-being, specifically aspects related to repetitiveness (e.g. grinding). Repetitiveness is something that does come up in a lot of disciplines (e.g. its soothing effect in autist kids, or repetitiveness as tool in the context of meditation, etc). The "addictive" aspect isn't necessarily a bad thing either, IMHO. Games are, almost by definition, supposed to be engaging. But that addictiveness may come in a form of trade-offs, for example, back in the day of grindy RPGs, delayed gratification was basically the entire point of grinding. The one aspect that I think is justly vilified is monetization strategies that tie to addictive elements of gameplay (especially the gacha variety) and this is something that I'd actually commend China for trying to address via regulation.
  • andrepew 5y ago
    I agree that playing a game might not improve a class of skills in general like coordination or problem solving, but I don’t think it requires much study to determine improvement of skills directly used. For example, to improve your reading skills you need to practice reading. If a game is providing reading material and motivation to read, it will improve reading skills. Games can also drive motivation in other areas. In the early 90’s when I started computer gaming, you actually needed to know how to use a computer and understand them to some extent. Half the time I spent gaming was spent figuring out how to get the computer to do what I wanted which lead to a life long interest in technology. Sadly, like the parent poster mentioned, that is probably no longer a thing.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  Good.
• shahbaby 5y ago
  Bad idea. Scarcity artificially increases percieved value. This is how you make something more addictive, not less.
  • pphysch 5y ago
    On the contrary, not having access to a bad habit for 5 days a week is a great way to replace that habit.
    • criloz2 5y ago
      It is not the work of the government to do those things.
• andrewmcwatters 5y ago
  I'm sure I would think differently if I were a parent, but this kinda sucks from just the perspective of letting a kid be a kid. I fondly recall draining days and days and days into online multiplayer games, made some of my best friends who are still with me to this day across state lines, and came to my wedding, while eating all sorts of stereotypically bad gamer junk food. Other than spending too much time arguing with people online, I don't find myself outside of what people would consider "well adjusted." Besides, most people don't spend their entire lives playing video games for hours on end. You do get tired of it. On second thought, maybe such rules would help one keep their love of games for longer...
  • mproud 5y ago
    Only online games. And kids could sign in using their parent’s account.
• lnyng 5y ago
  Original notice from the government: https://web.archive.org/web/20210830120201/http://www.nppa.gov.cn/nppa/contents/279/98792.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20210830120201/http://www.nppa.g... Google translation of the first entry: > Strictly limit the time for providing online game services to minors. Since the implementation of this notice, all online game companies can only provide minors with one-hour online game services from 20 to 21:00 on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and legal holidays. At other times, it is not allowed to provide online game services to minors in any form.
  • mlillie 5y ago
    Is the original article not a major journalistic misstep then? Nowhere does it clarify that this only applies to online gaming.
    • lnyng 5y ago
      I wonder if the journey article author didn’t think online game differs much with general games.
    • sudosysgen 5y ago
      Yes, it's a very major mistake.
    • moulei 5y ago
      I found some government documents to support my view that all games available on the Internet are "online games" in the eyes of the Chinese government http://www.gov.cn/flfg/2010-06/22/content_1633935.htm http://www.gov.cn/flfg/2010-06/22/content_1633935.htm translated form deepl: "The online game referred to in this method refers to the software program and information data composition, through the Internet, mobile communication networks and other information networks to provide game products and services. Online game online operation refers to the business behavior of providing game products and services to the public through information networks using user systems or fee-based systems. Online game virtual currency refers to the virtual exchange tool issued by online game operation unit and purchased directly or indirectly by online game users using legal tender in a certain proportion, existing outside the game program, stored in the server in the form of electromagnetic records and expressed in specific digital units."
• oxymoran 5y ago
  This is the thing that is going to spur a backlash against the CCP in China. Or at least it should. Minors are the perfect protesters: are you going to jail, beat, or kill them? The international backlash would be incredible.
  • postingawayonhn 5y ago
    Yes. Taking away entertainment from the youth so they have to find something else to fill their time with. What could possibly go wrong.
  • notsureaboutpg 5y ago
    Feels like you know very little about this issue. China has huge problems with addictive mobile games. All those IAPs you hate in games and loot boxes, etc are rampant in games popular in China. Moreover, many parents around the world are starting to limit the screen time of their kids out of fear. It is a common parenting tactic of famous tech CEOs. The CCP will be seen as caring about kids and helping to parent them. Kids are not going to protest this and their parents are going to happy with the result. Kids who really care will find a way around the restriction. Tencent and related stocks will slip for a few weeks then climb back up again
• sergiotapia 5y ago
  Is crime going to skyrocket? These kids are going to have a lot of time on their hands and nowhere to spend it.
  • solox3 5y ago
    One could try reading a book, learning a new skill, or socializing.
    • zepto 5y ago
      > or socializing Perhaps by joining a gang…
    • falcolas 5y ago
      I enjoy reading immensely, but even I hardly consider it to be a replacement for online gaming with your friends. Or, if I'm being frank, a more inherently valuable form of entertainment than gaming.
    • sergiotapia 5y ago
      That's not how it works for the majority of bored kids with raging hormones.
      • pphysch 5y ago
        In functioning societies with functioning economies, it certainly does work that way.
• NDizzle 5y ago
  Thinking back to my gaming binges with Ultima Online… imposing something like this would have turned me into a radical. I’m mad just thinking about it. And to think people want socialism / communism in the US.
• bluishgreen 5y ago
  Title should read: China has forbidden under-18s from playing VIDEO games for more than three hours/week
  • VanillaCafe 5y ago
    Title should read: China has forbidden under-18s from playing ONLINE VIDEO games for more than three hours/week. (And even ONLINE may not be quite precise enough.)
    • mproud 5y ago
      I’d read many kids will just use the ID of an older sibling or parent to get around the limitation.
• pototo666 5y ago
  Wrong title. Online games are forbidden, not all games. You can download and play many steam games. Edit: or pirated games.
  • phelm 5y ago
    also non-video games are not forbidden
    • ttflee 5y ago
      Try to imagine children playing solitaire.
  • ttflee 5y ago
    Offline games downloaded are regarded as online games, in this restriction.
• bell-cot 5y ago
  "...coaches of the Chinese Olympic volleyball teams decry this move, saying 'it will condemn our great nation to certain defeat in 2024'". /s (Though to look at reaction here on HN, doing a 's/games/video games/' in the title would be utterly superfluous.)
• arduinomancer 5y ago
  Talk about a capacity planning pain for the game companies. Your entire <18 player-base coming online at the exact same time for only 1 hour. Of course there are solutions like scheduled auto-scaling but still, I guarantee that's going to cause some outages at least in the beginning.
  • HenryKissinger 5y ago
    Imagine waiting a week for your weekly allocated one hour of gaming, only to have the servers crash for the whole time under the load. Tfw.
  • foreigner 5y ago
    Actually it sounds great - imagine the savings!
• tejohnso 5y ago
  With school out for summer, my preschooler is either playing a video game or watching youtube for hours on end. We try to force some time away from screens but it is a never ending struggle, as screen use is the immediate, default state to return to. I find most of the youtube content worse than the gaming, but neither are all that great.
  • piaste 5y ago
    Disclaimer: not a parent. He's a preschooler, not a teenager or even a kid. Can't you just... not give him a phone/tablet except at specified reward times?
    • aidenn0 5y ago
      I am a parent. You absolutely can. The kid will make your life miserable about it for anywhere from 4 hours to 3 months depending on how stubborn they are.
      • persedes 5y ago
        dito, it's hard, but doable. We've gone cold turkey with the TV on our five year old and after a week or two he was much more tolerable and plays with legos for hours to keep himself occupied. He's still a 5-year old though, so removing TV alone won't help with that, you still got to parent / occupy him most of the time. It did however get easier to connect with him and reason about those decisions. We still watch stuff together every now and then (or if we really need to be focused on smth), but he's in a much better mood throughout.
        • tejohnso 5y ago
          >He's still a 5-year old though, so removing TV alone won't help with that, you still got to parent / occupy him most of the time Right. There's nothing quite as engaging as tv/gaming that he can just sit without guidance and safely do by himself for a few hours at a time while his parents are busy working. Probably comes down to lazy parenting.
• mrlonglong 5y ago
  Wouldn't those kids grow up resenting the CCP? If the CCP keeps doing this long enough, they're going to have millions of sullen people and then all it takes is just one spark.
  • andix 5y ago
    They try to create a very tight net to control people. This works quite „well“ in North Korea, China is trying to create a „better“ version of that, by using technology. Creating a social scoring system, rating every move you make and everything you say. If people can’t express their resent at all, at some point they even stop thinking about it.
  • dragonwriter 5y ago
    > If the CCP keeps doing this long enough, they're going to have millions of sullen people and then all it takes is just one spark. ...and lots of disaffected people end up dead or beaten or in prison or, seeing those options demonstrated vividly, resigned to their fate under the CCP’s rule, unwelcome as it may be. It’s not like this hasn't played out already several times over different issues.
    • mrlonglong 5y ago
      They have a billion citizens. At some point the few will become the many disaffected.
      • simmerup 5y ago
        That’s why the CCP has tanks
      • dragonwriter 5y ago
        > At some point the few will become the many disaffected. Yes, we [*] know that, because its happened before, see, e.g., the ’89 Democracy Movement. On the other hand, we [*] know how that ended, too. [*] Unless our information comes exclusively from the CCP-filtered internet, in which case, maybe not.
• savant_penguin 5y ago
  The state clawing its hands inside families' decision making It does not matter if you agree or disagree with the proposition, this should not be decided by the state
• choeger 5y ago
  We live in interesting times, indeed. All the devices we own now become bricks in the walls government wants to build around us. Make no mistake, China is just the first state to implement such a measure and video gaming is just the first use case. It's really obvious by now that more and more policies like this will be embedded into software. There are so many applications: Cars (how much, where, and how do you drive), TVs (what do you watch and when), personal assistants (what do you talk about with your children)...
  • javajosh 5y ago
    I think this rule only applies to "online gaming services", which is significantly less dystopian. But I agree with your larger point, and would argue that insofar as we no longer understand our tools' functioning then they can (and will) be used to control us.
    • mproud 5y ago
      I’d read kids can sign in with other IDs to get around this.
• zetazzed 5y ago
  When I was a kid, I learned a tremendous amount from playing complex games like SimCity, Civilization, and Ultima. I feel like they opened my horizons to feel empowered to do interesting and meaningful things in the world, and they basically substituted for time I would've spent with GI Joe. Now, as an adult, when I do game, it substitutes for time I would've spent exercising, working on coding/ML side projects, or hanging out with the family. Hence, I'd like to flip this policy - please cap me at 3 hours a week but allow my kids to play!
  • dharmab 5y ago
    This policy is for online games. All of the games you listed would not be subject to it.
  • thekingofravens 5y ago
    I couldn't agree more. In high school and grade school, nothing mattered really, so games were just fun. However, I noticed there came a time recently when myself and all my friends had to choose between video games and failing college (or not going to college). Almost everyone I knew well enough to keep tabs on post high school chose video games. A total of 9 people and only 2 (myself included) were able to get gaming under control enough to make it. The others had their ambition sucked away by video games, and are starting to seriously regret their lives now. So while I think their approach is far too extreme, I can understand why they would be very concerned about video games.
  • stoned 5y ago
    Everyone's experience is different. My conclusion has been that I didn't learn anything from gaming as a child. I wish my parents had done a better job (they did try) steering me from gaming into pursuits I belive (emphasis on I) promote greater intellectual, emotional and social development than gaming.
    • turbohz 5y ago
      This is because not all videogames are equal and, of course, not all people are equal. Even among online games, there's a huge variety of experiences available. I'm not against regulation, just not overbroad.
• javajosh 5y ago
  The restriction is specifically "online games". Not offline games. Which is interesting because it implies that offline games are somehow less addictive - but in my experience, offline games can be very engaging, too. But perhaps it's in a more wholesome, problem-solving way? It's kinda impressive that the CCP can make decisions that affect 1B+ humans like this, overnight. I hope it's the right thing to do, for the kids' sake.
  • sudosysgen 5y ago
    There is a different incentive. For an offline single player or LAN game, you want to make the game interesting to play enough that the player will buy the game. For an online game or a microtx based semi single player game, you want the player not to play, but to pay, over and over. That means that engineering addiction that leads to nothing but payment and compulsion is very profitable. Offline games can definitely be very addicting and engaging. But ime those that are are because you're trying very hard to do something difficult, or because you're exploring, or because you're creating, all of which are ways in which video games can plausibly be helpful. And you will eventually get bored or move on to another game, which will give you time and pause to reconsider what you're doing. Meanwhile you could be grinding an online video game doing menial tasks and buying microtransactions without ever having an end goal in mind and without being creative, for over a decade, every day. So I think they're very different.
  • krsdcbl 5y ago
    i find it amazing how much tolerance is expressed when authoritarian rule is passed "for the kids sake". I feel reminded of the current apple issue. Are people really that ready to accept dictate over their and their kids behaviour in the name of moral and health? Isn't "time spent online" miles away from what the government should be allowed to regulate in your life?
    • MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
      If you know anything about the Opium problem in China during the Qing Dynasty, China doesn't take to kindly to that kind of stuff. This time they're not executing people in the streets though. Videogames are extraordinarily addictive. They should absolutely be limited for kids.
• dirtyid 5y ago
  Kids will just sink time in old games / old emulators. I had a phase playing gamse on TI83 growing up. The silver lining is hopefully the market will focus more on short single player offline experiences. Or publishers can cirvument entirely by moving games web on foreign server, and it's another entertainment locked behind VPN situation.
  • floatboth 5y ago
    Good! Old emulators and (truly) offline games in general can't be lootbox casinos.
• jayd16 5y ago
  Haven't we been through at least two generations of ubiquitous video games in the west? Is society noticeably different?
  • saxonww 5y ago
    Are you kidding? Look at the US in 1980 vs. now. There has been a lot of societal change. I don't think it has much to do with video games, though. Nationwide BBSes (Compuserv, AOL, etc.) and then the Internet have made or accelerated societal change. People can congregate and share information at a scale that wasn't feasible before, and in particular marginalized groups have found strength in numbers that just wasn't possible before. I think the 24 hour television news cycle (and the advertising it takes to support it) has also had more of an impact than games.
    • jayd16 5y ago
      Technology has progressed, obviously, but I don't see any reason to assume video game addiction has had any real impact.
  • pphysch 5y ago
    Sexual inactivity among males 22-35 has skyrocketed since the late 00s when social media and online games started getting really big. From ~7% to ~14% [1]. Similar explosion in depression/self-harm among both sexes. [1] - https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-sexlessness-is-rising-but-not-for-the-reasons-incels-claim https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-sexlessness-is-rising-but-no...
• MangoCoffee 5y ago
  China is also cracking down on the kpop/jpop style in the entertainment industry as well. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fstar.ettoday.net%2Fnews%2F2068072%3Fredirect%3D1 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=...
  • justicezyx 5y ago
    It's about banning feminine characters and ultra youth idols.
• SubiculumCode 5y ago
  I guess China really does want a revolt among the youth.
• dom96 5y ago
  My question is: how will this be enforced?
• devteambravo 5y ago
  I learned English playing Starcraft Shareware with a bunch of Canadians. I learned about money, economics, marketing, psychology and social skills via Runescape. I used games as an escape from my hell on earth childhood. And yet, I see this and think... maybe they're onto something. Today's games are engineered to rake in and manufacture addicts. People who don't know what dark design patterns are. Forgive my French here, but fuck the "Freedom" bullshit, this is about the one and only thing it's always been about, $$$. I say good for them.
  • throwaway5752 5y ago
    Yes, there is just a massive wave of scam artists and other bad actors that cry freedom to keep their exploitative practices from being criminalized or regulated. We all see it in certain online games, certain social media practices, some NFTs/crypto ICOs, current wave of SPAC/meme stocks, and it goes on. A large portion of them are robbing less sophisticated people. It's a major question of how much protection from their own bad decisions people get (and how equitable that protection is between the rich and the poor). I also think games and gaming communities have gotten much worse in 25 years. I wouldn't want a child I knew to get involved in most gaming communities at all, now.
  • krsdcbl 5y ago
    And yet, this fights the symptom, not the cause. Regulation should target companies that manufacture said addictive products, not dictate how citizens should behave under the guise of protection
    • devteambravo 5y ago
      I just don't buy the premise. Got it China bad. We're not acting better at home here in the US of A. You may disagree, but at the end of the day, you're walking with the same style of state surveillance in your pocket as any other. We cannot both be the cause of the problem and the solution. "not dictate how citizens should behave under the guise of protection". Do we live on the same planet???!
      • 5y ago
• CountDrewku 5y ago
  Think about this when you support "sin taxes". At some point the "sin" they target is going to be something you partake in. I generally dislike any government mandate punishing an entire society because some people lack the control to limit themselves. I understand this is aimed at someone who isn't legally an "adult" so I can give some small leeway in that case. However, I don't think this enforceable at all and it really still comes down to the parents putting in time to limit them.
• jovial_cavalier 5y ago
  The dismissive attitude commenters have in this thread towards the personal freedom aspect here is concerning. Though, maybe when discussing China it seems like beating a dead horse to some...
  • criloz2 5y ago
    Most people don't really appreciate the thing that they have until the day that they lost it. That why human history cyclical
• FpUser 5y ago
  I think I am on board with this decision unless said the game is actually educational. Otherwise we have some students spending all the time shooting monsters and having bad health and lots of other problems as a result.
• beaunative 5y ago
  Here is the thing, those online games prey on inner mechanism of the human nature for profit, and kids are specially vulnerable, so to some extent, certain level of restriction would be desirable. Also note the general background of Chinese bureaucracy, especially at country level are almost all at Biden's age. Imagine their rage when their children abandon them for games and now it's their time to pay them back. That being said, it's still surprising since 3 hours/day seems fair and ok, but 1 hour/day and 3 hours/weeks feels overreaching.
  • overgard 5y ago
    > Here is the thing, those online games prey on inner mechanism of the human nature for profit You're painting with far too broad of a brush here.
• rank0 5y ago
  I am appalled by all the supportive comments in this thread. Why are HN users so comfortable with authoritarian government? It’s about more than just online games. It’s about control. I’m sure the great firewall is perfectly fine as well?
  • uncoder0 5y ago
    I feel like the last year of 'quarantine' for most of the Western world has made people more comfortable with authoritarian governments and actions. It's rather alarming how widespread and quickly this change in ideology has happened.
    • ezekg 5y ago
      It's crazy to me because I would have thought the last year or so would produce the opposite effect. But a fearful populace is a malleable populace, I guess.
    • lvs 5y ago
      The analogy doesn't hold. It's hard to say that video games are an acute crisis causing hundreds of thousands of deaths.
    • knownjorbist 5y ago
      This is comparing apples and oranges, frankly.
      • honkdaddy 5y ago
        I would say in both cases it's the government exhibiting control over its citizens lives under the notion that it's for their own protection. I think everyone has a point at which government control becomes tyranny. For some it's lockdowns during a pandemic, for others it's time-limits on video games. Seems like all apples, to me.
        • dlp211 5y ago
          Your kid playing videogames 12 hours a day has no impact on my life. You giving me Covid does. These situations are not the same and the complete lack of nuance on when government authority is good and needed, and when it is bad and harmful is...well, I don't have the word(s), perhaps disappointing. I don't get the desire to see everything as black and white and boil everything problem down to a slippery slope fallacy.
• Tiktaalik 5y ago
  This will destroy the Chinese games industry and this may have broader implications than just stocks in free fall. Video game programming is very cutting edge technology (eg. 3D graphics, animation, wayfinding, and more). China throwing this industry away will mean there are no home grown video game programmers which will have implications on their entire software engineering capability. This gives the rest of the world a big edge technology wise.
  • kuschku 5y ago
    Honestly, it'll just destroy the shitty gambling microtransaction games. Most studios will focus on offline games again, back to old-school games. Honestly, I'm a fan of this. No harm done to anything worth saving.
    • aero-glide2 5y ago
      Then just regulate the microtransactions instead of doing this.
      • qnsi 5y ago
        perfect example of a keyhole solution. Also perfect opportunity to link to my favourite propaganda site [0] [0] https://openborders.info/keyhole-solutions/ https://openborders.info/keyhole-solutions/
    • Tiktaalik 5y ago
      There are LOTS of online games that are not "shitty gambling microtransaction" games. Even in the west where traditional, non-microtransaction games are very common, having an offline, single player, non-cooperative game is increasingly rare.
  • sudosysgen 5y ago
    Tencent et al already get a single digit percentage of their revenue from minor users on online games. It will not kill them. There is also a massively underdeveloped market for single player Chinese games that is only recently starting that will benefit massively from this decision.
• reversengineer 5y ago
  Look for exceptions to this rule in the near future as eSports continues its rise in popularity, and even becomes offered as an official school activity.
• mproud 5y ago
  Online games. Play all the offline games you want. Or log in with your older sibling’s ID or parents ID.
• jhanschoo 5y ago
  I wonder if game addiction is a bigger problem in China, if Chinese kids are feeling a lot more pressure compared to the US, and if (if both are true) that would explain the addiction problem.
• ironman1478 5y ago
  This is really difficult for me to have an unbiased opinion on, but I think this is an OK decision (3 hours seems a bit too little >.>). I've pumped WAY too many hours into online games. I played fighting games, dota, starcraft, you name it, I played it and I played it before I was 18. I really think that it stunted my social growth (though not too much) because I got really hooked on the competitive aspect of those games. Those games still get their hooks in my once in a while (splitgate I'm looking at you). However, another reason I played so many games is because I lived in the middle of nowhere in florida and didn't have a car. There wasn't much I could do other than go to school, exercise, and play games. Everything was 30+ miles away by car. I think if China is going to do this, they have to provide other outlets for people to interact with each other. Games are a way of doing that for many because there simply isn't another option for them when they are young and don't have a car and don't live in a major city like new york or SF.
• Akuehne 5y ago
  And just like that, China's competitive Dota scene will disappear. I wonder how this will effect the Perfect World/Valve partnership.
  • jjcm 5y ago
    This is the one I'm really curious about. With many esports the competition has been West vs China. Esports are on the rise as well, and now China has crippled their presence in the scene. It'd be akin to restricting athletes to training for only 3 hours before their 18 for the olympics. China's representation in the competitive scene, especially among the new generation, is heavily damaged with this.
  • pphysch 5y ago
    It will take a hit but certainly won't disappear. Success in Dota 2 nowadays is not based in having fast reaction times and dexterity but in strategic planning and team cohesion. If top teams have a young player, it is usually in position 1 or 2, and many older players are also currently succeeding at those roles. Besides, this regulation does not appear ban things such as a Dota club at school (online play would be forbidden, but local lobbies would not).
• persedes 5y ago
  Speaking from my own childhood, I'd be curios if kids in China are going to try to circumvent this ban or if it is even possible to do so. (Similar to how homepages ask for your birthday... no one is going to check up on it). While this ban seems very specific (only online, certain hours of the week) I wonder if the companies might try to overachieve and extend it to offline games or social media platforms as well. Guess it depends on how the parents/ companies interpret that law (is it a law?). Watching the recent VIPKid / online teaching fallout, they just banned online classes very short notice for the remaining summer holidays. According to some VIPKid teachers however they're not getting new classes booked for september or the existing ones are getting cancelled.
  • masterof0 5y ago
    Yeah, this is just for the CCP to feel good about themselves and send a message. They have no way of enforcing that. Kids would just use their parent's phone. Or go to a WangBa that doesn't give a flying f*ck about the regulation.
• deleted 5y ago
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• bayesian_horse 5y ago
  Good luck enforcing this...
• S_A_P 5y ago
  So secures western dominance in eSports competitions. Like everything in life computer games are diverse enough that they can be harmful/predatory to high/mid level programming. I struggle to keep my son from gaming all of his free time away, but he also has learned Lua and C# to a pretty large degree doing this stuff and I cant be too mad about that. This weekend we are going to put together his first gaming rig from parts he started researching. If he didnt care about gaming, he would not have any of that...
  • doomleika 5y ago
    I fail to see removing one from eSport scene damages the productivity of a country, if not increase it. eSports are pretty much a negative to the country as a whole. Gaming company use it as ad and sell the illusion to make big bucks. Yes, you could have the next Faker in your country. So what? for every international pro you create there's 100s more kids wasted their youth on a pipe dream where their time could be used to more productive matter. The damage could be justified IF you are the game dev/publisher so your country could benefit from all the royalties, but this is not the case for many of the countries(of course in China this is a mixed case where Tencent holds 100% of Riot). This is actually a problem in Korea that they have many failed eSport candidate that have no proper skill to live in a very competitive job market. Although Parasite(2019) is a bit exaggerated but not getting in prestigious school/company(Samsung) will likely to put you in a very miserable economy situations.
    • masterof0 5y ago
      This is a pretty good take, also what happens to the teens who don't make it to the competitions or twitch? I dont think the tax that eSport winners pay have any influence on a country's economy.
      • doomleika 5y ago
        IMO there's no win in the eSport games unless you are the country developing it or host major platform for it(ex: Twitch), they hold too much power. Competition by nature is a winner takes all game. Age is a strong factor it's event worse than programmer like us which caps around 35-40. For them, it's 25. that means one had to start playing at early teens. Unfortunately most kids are also bad at negotiating terms and compensation nor they hold the bargain chips before they made names, this makes them susceptible from exploitations from all the parties involved. If a player is successful, they make probably same wages as a few high tier engineers. If a player failed, then you have lots of unskilled man with bad health conditions because they spent 12+ hours sitting in fronts of a computer for 10 years. That's disasters waiting to happen. If I am governor I'll simply make my country very hostile to eSports. If some kid managed to make it, good for the. For the rest of them if they can't even show perseverance than they are bound to fail anyway.
• hammeiam 5y ago
  What are the odds that this isn't an effort to get kids offline, and instead an attempt at freeing bandwidth or reducing energy consumption? This feels like when they banned bitcoin mining at the same time they were having rolling brownouts - the issue wasn't the mining but the resources it consumed.
• adenozine 5y ago
  Conspiracy theory I just made up, don't take seriously: This is to control the demand for GPUs, as there is now such a drastically psychotic situation around the supply that a nation-state must now intervene to allocate cards for their AI projects.
• CmdSheppard 5y ago
  Glad I don’t live in China
• throwawaymanbot 5y ago
  This is not about Kids gaming and it ruining their minds. This is about Chinas gaming kids playing games where people can talk/converse with/to them, and thus depart "information" without much official control.
• stephc_int13 5y ago
  This is insane. There should be no debate about this, discussing the pros and cons of games and the potential for addiction. Well, this is China, at least this has the merit of clarifying their policies.
• pknerd 5y ago
  Seeing how people dying playing games like PUBG. I'd like my government also implement this. Though I don't know how could it be implemented. Must be at ISP level.
  • pknerd 5y ago
    Uncertain why my comment triggered others. Google and you'd find stories. Do not take every other ban an attack against democracy.
• clarle 5y ago
  I feel like this might unexpectedly have a good side for consumers. The ban applies to the service, not the client. Could we have another Renaissance of local gaming again? More games allowing LAN-based play in response to minors not being able to regularly access a centralized server.
• stephc_int13 5y ago
  This is barely credible as the pitch for an episode of Black Mirror.
• steve76 5y ago
  The richest boss, the poorest bum, all die the same. I would rather focus on something important, not dying, as in curing liver cirrhosis or blocked arteries or matted down nerve hairs in the brain than try to tell a billion and a half of people what to do all the time from far far away. What a wonderful weapon that is. Cure disease, and don't give you the cure. How can your people excel if they really do not want to do it? If they don't like you and want you gone? It will just be contorting yourself to the test, a facade without any true knowledge. People in, and what comes out? Another day away from the gallows? Leave other people alone. They're probably going through stuff and know what's best for them. You took away their humanity and turned them into industrial stock, something to be harvested and consumed. No wonder they run and hide from you.
• deleted 5y ago
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• 908B64B197 5y ago
  It's interesting how they are only restricting online games. Games where young frustrated [0] [1] Chinese teenagers could talk relatively freely with others from different regions of China. Or god forbid, learn English and have contacts with westerners. Better to keep them grinding on shaving a few tenth of a second on basic algebra problems for the Gaokao. That will better prepare them for the factories. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/too-many-men/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/too-many-... [1] https://www.newsweek.com/2015/06/05/gender-imbalance-china-one-child-law-backfired-men-336435.html https://www.newsweek.com/2015/06/05/gender-imbalance-china-o...
  • DantesKite 5y ago
    What do you think about the government banning alcohol?
    • sadgrip 5y ago
      If you and I sat next to each other. You with an online game in front of you and me with a few handles of vodka and we both started playing and drinking without stopping I would likely be dead before you reached Chinas mandated time limit. I thought it was obvious that the risks between these two things are very different.
      • DantesKite 5y ago
        You could use the same analogy for gambling, but I wouldn’t conclude the risk profile for gambling is safe. It’s why it’s banned in most countries for people under the age of 18
• doomleika 5y ago
  This is actually worse, underaged minors are only allowed to play from 2000-2100 in Fri, Sat, and Sun(and holidays). Down from cumulative 1.5 hours(3 hour in holidays) per day in 0600-2200. There's no clear effective date for this mandate. But many of the game I see have those policy in place already. The restriction applies to "online games", but keep in mind in China GaaS games(read: gacha games) are the norm, they are always online to fight piracy. So basically, this applies all the games that actually matters in China. This will likely to push the China game industry to a new round of battle royal to fight for those little time they have from players, I feel bad for small shops, after 10 years of bloodbath China games had their monetization pattern in place(gacha/monthly passes/daily missions). Now they have to restart over and try again. eSport scene? yeah, gone, but honestly this is probably good in the long run. China shops has been winning this era of gaming and crubstomping JP/KR gamedevs with superior gacha models, server stability, update quality/quantity. This mandate will likely to halt their dominance and gave JP/KR a breather. and I guess Bytedance's game divisions is a goner now...
  • cucumb3rrelish 5y ago
    i can't imagine tencent and the like are happy about this in the slightest
    • doomleika 5y ago
      Tencent have been reducing their gaming revenue footprints down to single digit %. IMO giant behemoth for the like of BATTMD will manage since they have the money to spare. It will hurt. but in the long run it won't be a big deal.
• Dig1t 5y ago
  This seems like a good way to breed a generation of kids who are good at cracking/circumventing game restrictions, and play more offline games.
• rexreed 5y ago
  Isn't this the "kids watch too much TV" of the Z generation? I mean, I know that gaming in large quantities to the exclusion of social interaction and education is harmful, but that's what was also said about TV and the growth of cable. So is this much ado about nothing?
  • mywittyname 5y ago
    China is where the USA was 20-30 years ago. Had video games been as advanced in the 90s as they are today, the USA would have instituted similar policies back then. There was a huge crusade against gaming in the 90s, particularly when it came to children playing videogames. The USA benefits from having an older population who grew up playing videogames. Anyone under 40 probably played games at least a little bit growing up. And those under 30 almost certainly did, as games started becoming more broadly appealing in the PS2 era. So they view games in a much different way than their parents, who largely knew nothing about videogames did.
• laumars 5y ago
  > Gaming companies will be barred from providing services to minors in any form outside the stipulated hours and must ensure they have put real-name verification systems in place, said the regulator, which oversees the country's video games market. This will almost certainly be extended beyond China because of the obvious data mining revenue and will almost certainly be a net loss for consumers globally.
• rexreed 5y ago
  As a side note, this is more evidence that we're about to see the pendulum swing back towards decentralized IT systems. Social media, megatech companies, censorship, and privacy issues are taking some of the shine off highly centralized systems, and we might see a renaissance of offline, sometimes-connected, distributed, privacy-oriented systems.
• thomastjeffery 5y ago
  This comment thread is a really interesting instance of a social phenomenon that happens in forums. The overwhelming majority of comments here are both: 1. Partially or fully supportive of this policy. 2. Downvoted to grey. There seem to be two ways people are engaging with this topic: 1. Writing a nuanced comment about how this is probably good for children or well meaning (to be downvoted by most readers). 2. Upvoting the handful of comments that point out how this is obviously a terrible overreach (but not writing as much in a comment because it has already been said). Because those with an unpopular opinion have so much more to express, those perspectives generate the most comments and the fewest upvotes/most downvotes. This phenomenon tends to make it seem like a minority opinion is held by the majority present.
  • dang 5y ago
    That's not how the thread turned out in general. It's a good idea to wait and see how things develop. The earliest comments usually are not representative of community opinion.
    • thomastjeffery 5y ago
      The thread may have more comments now, but the top ones are all still the same. The top comment is still, "I have mixed feelings about this" and totally lumps together all "modern games" as the toxic problem this win-some-lose-some law might be "needed" for; and that's exactly the facade of nuance I'm complaining about. Just because a law is intended to fix a real problem doesn't mean we need to prop up devil's advocate on stilts to balance it against criticism. A government forcing tens of millions of children to log in to a centralized database to make sure they only play video games during a specific perscripted three hours/week is prima facie insane. Leading discussion about it with "mixed feelings" is utterly disingenuous and unrepresentative.
• yellowapple 5y ago
  China and heavy-handed intervention: name a more iconic duo.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• nonamenoslogan 5y ago
  Realistically, how will this be enforced?
  • bmc7505 5y ago
    Facial recognition: https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/9/22567029/tencent-china-facial-recognition-honor-of-kings-game-for-peace https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/9/22567029/tencent-china-fac...
• streamofdigits 5y ago
  What about edutainment type games? Will there be a censor deciding which game is eligible? The loopholes and ambiguities are many. This could backfire, especially if not enforced in some visibly meaningful and fair manner... Caveat: I know next to nothing about the gaming universe in China :-)
• honkycat 5y ago
  Bad law, this basically kills the online gaming hobby for people under 18. I think there is a lot of value in online multiplayer games, personally. People aren't robots, they need a way to relax, and I find it an amazing way to have a bit of competition in my life when I struggle to fit in anything else. I watched an interview with David Harbor and he made a really amazing point. ( David is an avid poker player ): D&D is a lot like poker, in that it doesn't get REALLY good until you've been doing it so long that you get the feeling you should REALLY be doing something else. I feel the same way about gaming. I play a lot less anymore, and that is because the way to play a game is to dive in and really immerse yourself in it for a few hours straight. Hell, you can't even get warmed UP in an online FPS game in under an hour.
• X6S1x6Okd1st 5y ago
  It'd be a fantastic story if this lead to Chinese kids who are interested in gaming developing hacking & programming skills to get around the limits.
• karmasimida 5y ago
  Well video game is the new cigarette for Chinese teenagers. The harder the government bans it, the more tempting it would be.
• timwaagh 5y ago
  There is a time for nuance and there is a time for condemnation. This isn't the time for nuance. It's a government telling people what they can and can't do. It's deprioritizing happiness for merely ideological reasons. What do they expect kids to do instead? Lie Flat and watch the state propaganda channel?
• frashelaw 5y ago
  Note that it's specifically Online games, not all games.
• wildwex 5y ago
  The State should recognize that the responsibility begins with the Parents. If the State wants to promote a level of guidance that aligns with some common sense, then provide information/advice/recommendations to Parents on how to manage their children's growth. Mandates are a draconian move when you've lost control.
  • pphysch 5y ago
    > Mandates are a draconian move when you've lost control. Mandates are only enforceable if you have control in the first place, so your reasoning is backwards.
• SnowProblem 5y ago
  Like many other commentors here, I grew up playing primarily skill-based video games, like Legend of Zelda, RollerCoaster Tycoon, Counter-Strike, StarCraft. It was wanting to make these games that led me to become a software developer. But games were different. Even a game like Pokemon, which has a few loot-box mechanics, was only mildly addicting. The first game I remember being extremely addicting was World of Warcraft. It became a habit to simply click the icon as soon as the desktop loaded, and although I do have many good memories, I also know friends that played 8 hours a day for years whose lives look worse off to me. Through loot-boxes, social scores, and now mobile, addiction has been perfected. And yet, we are not robots. We make our own choices. Parents set limits and create alternatives, and schools and community groups do too. Games also simply get old after a while. Anyone who really wants to stop a gaming addiction can stop it - it is only a question of will. So I find what the CCP is doing abhorrently wrong because their actions create the very dependence on government, and the removal of will at any other level, that perpetuates themselves as a solution. The Western way is messier for sure, but if we want freedom, we have to be OK with mistakes.
  • hjek 5y ago
    > But games were different. They were, and I wonder why. If you run some open source 16-bit gaming console emulator, you also know that there won't be in-game purchases, because it just wasn't a possibility. Perhaps it was a technological sweet spot that limited capitalist exploitation within video games? The games still had ethical issues then, like, it's actually difficult to find non-violent games. Even Zelda is addictive in its immersiveness and the game mechanics rely a lot on assaulting baddies. > The first game I remember being extremely addicting was World of Warcraft. It became a habit to simply click the icon as soon as the desktop loaded, This is interesting to read, that you as a ex-gameaholic disagree with this law. I wonder whether it could really be the forces that are moving game development (as in money, as in capitalism) that are the real problem because they profit from creating addiction, rather than computer games as such. One can only wonder what computer games would look like in a world not dominated by neoliberalism, and whether a healthier game development model is possible? I am reminded of this longer comment that was removed from the Godot source code recently: > A capitalist oligarchy runs the world and forces us to consume in order to keep the gears of this rotten society on track. As such, the biggest market for video game consumption today is the mobile one. It is a market of poor souls forced to compulsively consume digital content in order to forget the misery of their everyday life, commute, or just any other brief free moment they have that they are not using to produce goods or services for the ruling class. From https://github.com/godotengine/godot-docs/commit/b872229427dddb9b749f46af597e85e25cf2955a https://github.com/godotengine/godot-docs/commit/b872229427d...
• 2snakes 5y ago
  Some very famous prodigies made a 'game' out of their field. Terence Tao for example, said he used to make a game out of mathematical solutions. And that he knows more about math after graduate school than before or during. My personal experience in this was with a imaginative text-based game called a MUD. There were times when I was spending 20-50+ hours a week role-playing and player-killing with a group of friends. I very nearly flunked out of a full-tuition scholarship my freshman year, and left anyway because it wasn't fulfilling to me - I wanted to be a sysadmin, not study liberal arts. In HS it was fun using a PoE adapter to POTS for Internet access. The things I took away from excessive gaming were "saying the right words to convince other people I have their best interests at heart" (RP for player-run cabals) and "speed reading skimming" "fast-twitch typing" and "writing conversationally." I probably could have saved myself a lot of trouble financially and academically and emotionally without these 'second lives' but I did see some positive outcomes. Real Life is usually a richer experience socially/experientially... except when it comes to playing make-believe... how much of the intersubjectivity superstructure (sociologically) isn't make-believe...? Perhaps, perhaps.
  • compactdisk 5y ago
    > The things I took away from excessive gaming were "saying the right words to convince other people I have their best interests at heart" (RP for player-run cabals) and "speed reading skimming" "fast-twitch typing" and "writing conversationally." This is extremely relatable. I grew up playing Runescape and I legitimately think it helped me develop better rhetorical skills than my peers and just better instincts in general when it comes to social and economical things. Don't get me wrong though, those thousands of hours spent on video games were still not worth it. And I also don't think it's desirable to be too instinctive and "twitchy".
• Kiro 5y ago
  There are already many restrictions imposed for people under 18. To circumvent them kids link their parents' QQ when gaming so don't know how much of an impact this will actually have.
• clomond 5y ago
  I can't help but think that this action could very well spur out some 'unintended consequences'. Prohibition can restrict and reduce participation and usage at an overall level, but certainly some portion of this will be pushed underground, or to unregulated spaces - probably just the thing the government WOULDN'T want to have. Particularly when we are talking about some portion of the players being addicts here... how many are going to sign up for VPNs, Tor (or some other workaround) and find some other game or activity that satisfies that itch?
• didibus 5y ago
  I was just thinking about if I should limit game time for my kids or not. My thoughts were that there are too many kind of video games to club them all as "games are bad". And probably I'll focus on limiting the kind of games or specific games themselves. Some games are just elaborate casino games in nicer clothes. I really don't see benefits to that. But some offline games offer interesting stories and challenges that need brain/dexterity to solve. I feel those are probably just as good as books or movies/tv. For online competitive games, that's a harder one. Games like Fortnite, COD, online sports games, and all that. Some people say it lets kids play together with friends, but I find nowadays it can also just expose yourself to kind of bad social interactions. Coop online games and such, where the friend group is closed, like you play within your friends, no other strangers involved I feel is probably fine. Having said all that, I feel that we're missing some actual evidence here to say if games are good or bad. Is there actually some data on it? Any correlation with kids who spent a lot of time playing video games and how they turned out later in life? I personally did grow up playing games, and I turned out fine, so sometimes I wonder if it's more of a false scare than anything.
• m0zg 5y ago
  China, apparently, does not know any 18 year olds. I'm sure they'll all voluntarily comply, no problem. /s
  • detaro 5y ago
    Rules for how online gaming companies can offer their service is kind of the opposite of expecting users to comply voluntarily with restrictions on online gaming?
    • m0zg 5y ago
      There are also self-hosted, and offline games. Shit, my 17 yo plays until 4 in the morning somehow even though his internet turns off at 10pm and his phone has no data plan.
      • detaro 5y ago
        So your point is that people won't follow regulation targeting online games, by playing not-online games?
        • m0zg 5y ago
          My point is that if "playing games" for days on end is a concern, this does next to nothing to fix that. In fact, I'm not even sure there is a fix per se. As a parent, I think this is a big problem. Literally an entire generation of young men and women are wasting entire days on their YouTube/TikTok/computer games addiction (often all three) and neither learning nor doing anything worthwhile with their lives. That bill will come due in the form of poverty, crime, substance abuse, and death 10-20 years from now, when these folks see that they can't get paid for watching youtube all day. At least not reliably. Kudos to the Chinese for seeing a little bit ahead of everyone else, even if their "solution" is nothing of the sort.
• bigbob2 5y ago
  Really strange decision to make in the middle of a pandemic. You would think they would be encouraging activities which enable social distancing, not banning them.
  • fma 5y ago
    Chinese citizens: "What pandemic?" The Chinese government was able to control the pandemic because they are authoritarian. Meanwhile Florida just received 14 portable morgues. Before I get the "Fake News" crowd coming at me...I was on a video conference call last week with my Chinese counterparts in my company (my first meeting) and I was taken aback when everyone in the conference room didn't have masks...then I remember their spread is basically nill.
    • bigbob2 5y ago
      I mean the virus came from China so I guess they didn't do that great of a job of controlling it. Not only that but can we really trust the numbers China is reporting? They have been completely non-compliant with investigations which could have resulted in saved lives. Lots of people (most?) in the US seem to have the same brazen attitude of not wearing masks in crowded spaces. Not long ago CDC was advising that people who are fully vaccinated don't need to wear masks in crowded public spaces.
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  • doomleika 5y ago
    COVID have been under control for a long time in CN, there’s lambda outbreak here and there, but most of them are eliminated fast. Giant exhibition have been hold for more than a year now. And CN is getting kids back to school
    • 5y ago
• aazaa 5y ago
  > Gaming companies will be barred from providing services to minors in any form outside the stipulated hours and must ensure they have put real-name verification systems in place, said the regulator, which oversees the country's video games market. Those critical of the Chinese government should take a look in the mirror. Governments around the world, including those in the US, routinely impose restrictions on minors' ability to access online content. These laws are even structured in a similar way: hold the service providers accountable for monitoring use. > "Teenagers are the future of our motherland," Xinhua quoted an unnamed NPPA spokesperson as saying. "Protecting the physical and mental health of minors is related to the people's vital interests, and relates to the cultivation of the younger generation in the era of national rejuvenation." It's a favorite tactic of authoritarians everywhere: "Just think of the children!" First get a foothold by selling the thing as protecting children. In the US, we have two other options: terrorism and drugs. With the precedent set, expand the policy and watch opponents scramble to find a foothold.
  • Spivak 5y ago
    You're ignoring the huge cultural differences. Completely seriously, what do you think the endgame is for the Chinese government? In the US there's always the suspicion of ulterior motives because that's how our government is structured. The Chinese gov't doesn't have to bother. They don't need a foothold, they can just do it.
• Animats 5y ago
  The official announcement is more useful.[1] Google Translate does a decent job on this. Some of these restrictions have been in place for a few years. The number of allowed hours are being reduced, and the technical standards for enforcement are being strengthened. A key part of this is "real name verification". That's been around in theory for years, but was not that effective. A tougher standard was introduced in September 2020.[2] Tencent and NetEase, the big game companies in China, already have it working. Some of it uses the national identity card, and some of it uses face recognition. Identity cards are only issued at age 16, so verifying kids is hard. There's a slow but steady tightening up on ID in China that's been underway for decades. There's been a purge of unapproved online games. The Apple app store cooperated last year and deleted about 500 games. Unauthorized game publishers are being shut down. [1] http://www.news.cn/2021-08/30/c_1127809919.htm http://www.news.cn/2021-08/30/c_1127809919.htm [2] https://www.scmp.com/abacus/games/article/3095509/chinas-real-name-verification-system-games-launch-nationwide-september https://www.scmp.com/abacus/games/article/3095509/chinas-rea...
• Karunamon 5y ago
  This probably eliminates China as a serious esports region going forward. You can't even go anywhere near professional play without a lot of time and effort, and 3 hours a week simply isn't enough to even get into scouting range.
• logicalmonster 5y ago
  Putting aside the horrible ethics of controlling society like this, it sounds like a really bad policy by China that would likely backfire. 1) Mandating that kids all game at the same time will have bad problems for some web services. Some games geared towards younger people might be close to a ghost town 95% of the time, and then surge radically in traffic during allowed gaming hours. This is asking for technical problems dealing with radically different usage patterns. 2) The limits are unreasonably small for a hobby. If they had said something like 16 hours a week any time you want as long as your homework was done, most Chinese gamers would have begrudgingly accepted it as part and parcel of living in a CCP Wonderland. But 3 hours is too small and is asking for kids to try and hack and find workarounds to the tiny limits. I'm sure that 14 year old me would have made a game out of trying to find workarounds around this rule regardless of the consequences.
  • bogwog 5y ago
    I agree this is fucked up for a lot of reasons, but I'd take point 1 as a positive for the service teams. This gives them a way to perfectly predict the load on their servers in advance.
    • Aicy 5y ago
      Not really, there will still be a lot of variance day to day, week to week etc in on how many people log on and play. I think it's unlikely that every kid will be using 100% of their playtime every weekend, and thus giving a perfectly reliable usage pattern.
• docmars 5y ago
  This is an interesting policy to me. I spent a LOT of time gaming in my teen years, but my parents practically forced me to play outside with friends, ride my bike, be a part of a church youth group, and greatly encouraged my hobbies programming and designing software formally starting at age 8. I already had a pretty well-balanced life, and by this policy's standards, I would be "too addicted to gaming" and breaching its rules. Today I work a wonderful job in tech getting paid well, and by and large love my life. While in some ways, I can agree with the outcomes these policies are driving at, I can never get behind a government enforcing these at the risk of penalizing a family or children for breaching it. Wars have been fought and won (rightfully) over the culmination of these types of far-reaching policies that seek to determine how an individual spends their recreational time outside of other obligations like school and work. It also sets a terrible precedent for controlling the amount of time an individual spends on any other activity. I fundamentally reject the reasoning behind viewing gaming as a potential addiction when any other recreational activity could be classified as such if one spends a great deal of time pursuing it, especially given that many games incorporate history; useful story tropes for understanding life, myth, and relationships; and for online games, the social bonds, management of guilds/clans/resources, and other portable skills that readily translate to corollary activities in a multitude of career fields. China really knows how to bum its citizens out on so many levels, and the fact that so many in Western cultures seek the cold-calculated utilitarian outcomes of policies like these for Western civilizations without considering the tangible, psychological, emotional, and cultural impacts (among others) on societies is absolutely appalling. Western civilizations didn't endure wars and literal genocide over freedom from authoritarian lawmaking (and taxation) only to have these freedoms challenged again and again by a select few who have the audacity, hubris, and arrogance to impose on them in the name of the better good. Fuck that.
• mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Ahah, my problem solving was so honed by 13 hr per week Starcraft in high school. My elders thought I should spend time doing normal things like watching TV instead. Hilariously out of touch.
• throwlejos 5y ago
  I don’t understand why there is such an outrage about this. I bet most of the HN crowd supports vaccine requirements to even buy groceries, always using the argument that is to protect everyone. Well the Chinese gov has determined that people being addicted to games is a threat to their society as a whole so they decided to restrict them. I’m sure you could even get some doctors to do publish some papers about how the games are really affecting these kids, that way you have the “Science” blessing.
• highfreq 5y ago
  I wonder how well their internet infrastructure and game servers will handle the enormous spike in traffic 8pm - 9pm Fri, Sat, and Sun.
• lhorie 5y ago
  China thinks that video games (specifically, the online variety) are harmful enough to children that it needs to be regulated at a federal level and children's exposure to games should be restricted. But here's the thing: We on the west do exactly the same thing for things like cigarettes, alcohol and gambling. The motivations behind all those restrictions are even similar (largely related to children's health/well-being). It's a big double standard to call their flavor of restrictions "authoritarian", while being ok with (or even strongly in favor of) our flavor of restrictions, even though the two are objectively similar in nature. Since you mentioned the great firewall, I think it's interesting to bring up some perspective I've heard from various Mainland Chinese people: that many of them thinks western media brainwashes us (think the thing about Olympic photo coverage of Chinese medalists) and many condemn westerner take on social matters (the US' handling of Covid, for example, is seen as a "proof" that the our infatuation with freedom has severe failings). I've even heard someone once say that "American egos wouldn't be able handle Chinese opinion if the firewall was lifted, because it's a voice 1.4b people strong - intellectuals, trolls and everything in between - who disapprove of American ideologies". To be clear: I'm not attempting to inflame, I'm merely bringing up what I heard from their side, for your edification. My advice is to be careful of using loaded terminology such as "authoritarian"; you don't own objective truth, and humility might go a long way in dispelling animosity from both sides.
  • joshschreuder 5y ago
    I don’t agree that the restrictions are objectively similar. Cigarettes, alcohol, and gambling all have very well researched and understood physical and psychological problems over decades. I’m not aware of any such research done into the effects of playing video games more than three hours per week (though would be interested to read it), so there’s a good chance that this is more than “government looking after the wellbeing of their citizens” in the same way as restrictions on the other things you mentioned.
    • lhorie 5y ago
      They cite myopia as a specific clinical reason and while there is some evidence correlating "near-work" activities (screen time, studying, etc) and nearsightedness, I personally think that's a weird way to slice a policy (especially considering the correlation isn't very strong). To be fair, it's not the only factor they cited, so I'm willing to concede it's an attempt at a "two birds with one stone" sort of policy. The other major factor that was mentioned was addiction. I'm not sure there are studies on this, but at least anecdotally, a lot of people seem to think it is a problem. Some other comments are also mentioning that this is more a restriction on companies providing services to underage audiences, and we do have a bunch of legal restrictions on how companies are allowed to interact with children; see COPPA.
• adotbacon 5y ago
  Importantly this is limited to online games. The reuters article doesn't make that clear, but NYT / WSJ articles do [1][2]. Many online games use matchmaking which push you towards a 50% win rate which keeps you more interested than if you were to 'always' win or lose. Depending on the game, you might then spend money or grind time in an attempt to improve the resources available. And in some of those, 3 hours a week necessitates redesigning these games so that they're playable - at least segmenting China's user experience to retain interest. If this regulation can encourage developers to better respect gamers' time and resources, that's a win. On the other hand, games with longer matches like DotA2/League in their standard modes may run too long to squeeze into an hour. I don't think the experience in those games themselves disrespects the time of users, but the 50% win-rate matchmaking and dream of getting out of 'dumpster tier ELO' can be problematic. On a hot streak or a cold streak? "Let's play til we win/lose." Single-player games have less pressure and more ability to walk away at mostly anytime (especially these days with quick-save) so you're playing them more on your schedule rather than beholden to the game itself (really the people playing). Multiplayer creates a lot of replayability through the unique decisions other players are making. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/business/media/china-online-games.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/business/media/china-onli... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-sets-new-rules-for-youth-no-more-videogames-during-the-school-week-11630325781 https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-sets-new-rules-for-youth-...
  • Karunamon 5y ago
    >Many online games use matchmaking which push you towards a 50% win rate which keeps you more interested than if you were to 'always' win or lose. Any competitive, skill-based matchmaking system that's tuned to produce the fairest game will strive to produce games where all participants have a statistically equal chance of victory. That includes non-video games. Why are you spinning this as if it's some dirty, manipulative ploy?
    • adotbacon 5y ago
      Matchmaking alone isn't inherently evil. As you allude to: what's the point playing if you're going to win 100% of the time or lose 100% of the time? I'm commenting in the context of why China might ban online gaming. If you can learn the strategies that you fight against in a bot in offline play - or exploit the blunders they make - it can still be fun, but there's less variance and more predictability. You'll probably get tired of it sooner than seeing emergent strategies from other players. Until games are built with bots that can effectively mimic the full range of ELO and unique strategies like you get in online play, I think there will be something missing in offline play. Even then, do we derive the same satisfaction from beating a bot? Partner up matchmaking with engagement tricks like "first win of the day" and other quests that net you some in-game resources like battle passes and you create a sense of FOMO that drains player time (while ensuring active players to keep queues fast). Add in micro-transactions and financial drain can happen too.
• Seanambers 5y ago
  Looking back at all the hours that I spent in Q1/Q2/Q3/BF2/BF3/BF4/CS/CSS/CSGO. Yeah, maybe I could've used that time better - But none of my friends did anything reasonable with that time and I don't think I am any more special than them. Still do the occasional session, still love the FPS! I find the reckless timewasting on social media, reddit, much more harmful in comparison.
  • civilian 5y ago
    Yeah, like what else should I have been doing with my free time in middle & high school? Smoking pot and sneaking out at night?
• brokenlantern 5y ago
  Wouldn't this also crush their egame industry or is the environment there appreciably different from what it looks like here?
• MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  I don't think it's useful or productive to go that far. But I do think everyone would be better off if any game with a cash shop tied to randomness (loot boxes) or an in-game mechanic tied to randomness that can be exacerbated with cash shop purchases (Black Desert Online's gear improvement mechanic being a good example) be limited to those who are of gambling age.
• ahallock 5y ago
  I get that China is authoritarian, so I'm not even going to argue about that, but even if you agree with the premise, three hours seems to be swinging too far in the other direction. Do they enforce the same rule with other entertainment? What about board games or MTG? And it's not like movies are much different, other than being passive. Actually, passive entertainment might be worse.
• beloch 5y ago
  >Previously, China had limited the length of time under-18s could play video games to 1.5 hours on any day and three hours on holidays under 2019 rules. How effective/strict has enforcement of the previously existing time limits been? If time limits haven't been hard to circumvent or punishments for doing so severe, most kids would have routinely flouted the rules. Video games are quite the carrot. It would be interesting if, by feebly enforcing these time limits, a totalitarian government would willingly commit the blunder of passing a law that trains children to disobey the state.
• BEEdwards 5y ago
  I don't know much about youth culture in China, maybe all their teens are well behaved and obedient... But my working experience is largely with "transition" students in America and can tell you that rules like this are like commanding the tide not to go out. At best you teach them that your rules are arbitrary and give them a framework for subverting them, they may just reject your authority outright and then you've got nothing...
  • majani 5y ago
    Exactly. The problem with all these highly publicized, flimsy regulations is that when you eventually fail to enforce them, the extent of your authority comes into question. Better to have few laws that are strictly enforced.
• holoduke 5y ago
  I believe we in the west fail in creating a healthy and friendly society. I mean today I saw a TV commercial about a state funded lottery. In this commercial a well known rich person sits in his small boat. Then suddenly a big yacht appears with a not so rich looking guy on it. Smiling and overlooking the small boat. Obviously a person who won the lottery. The message: bigger and richer is better. Promoting this kind of mentality is not good for a respectful society. I am not a pro China person. Not at all. I am all for a free world in which people can take their own responsibility. But is that possible when the government is showing bad education? I don't think so.
• seppobi69 5y ago
  Speaking only for myself, but... I have been playing +12h per day semi casually, taking non-scheduled brakes for weeks when it gets boring. For me it is more an escape than addiction. I do it because everything else sucks, not because I got symptoms if I don't play. I have real addictions and gaming is not one of them.
• trashface 5y ago
  Not sure Chinese authorities have thought this through. If the video game ban is strictly enforced, but 996 ban is not strictly enforced, that's a recipe for a lot of social discontent down the line.
• deleted 5y ago
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• Tucanix 5y ago
  China being bat shit crazy in their favorite authoritarian dystopian way as usual. Maybe they should ban the literal slavery and genocide that they do against the Uyghurs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide, but oh wait they do that on purpose for political reasons so that wont happen. People in this thread are giving China way too much leeway. If they cared so much about people not wasting their time maybe they shouldn't have forced thousands of people to become athletes solely for the Olympics and when they inevitably fail to become pro and they don't have any education because they spent their entire life sheltered training so they now have to beg on the street for handouts, that seems like a waste of time. China is just North Korea in different clothes and with the long term aspirations of Nazi Germany during WWII. China will be the next catalyst for the next major war, they are pretty much that aggressive.
• mrobot 5y ago
  Good. I ruined my damned brain playing stupid first person shooters for disgusting amounts of hours from like age 12-22. Aside from the social life i lost out on, I really think my brain is permanently deprived of chemicals.
  • civilian 5y ago
    You should see a psychiatrist & a therapist, if your brain chemistry is off then there are interventions that can be done for it.
  • drywater2 5y ago
    Same. I feel like games are fun, but at some point there are diminishing returns and negatively affect your social life.
• hellbannedguy 5y ago
  Some of the things Xi is doing is making me happy. I'm with him on this, gambling, and even flapping a few billionaire's egos/finances.
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• lxe 5y ago
  China is on a massive cultural crackdown right now. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/30/china/china-entertainment-crackdown-mic-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/30/china/china-entertainment-cra...
• frozencell 5y ago
  Suicide might raise in China if school is not entertaining enough.
• frozencell 5y ago
  This is gamification in game theory terms, so does it mean they are banning their own reform?
• andy_ppp 5y ago
  Are dictatorships going to prove to be more resilient than democracy in the age of endless noise? The west needs to realise that everything we have is at risk if we don’t get our act together. We need to forget arguing amongst ourselves and look at a billion people who are going to rule in a very different way from our pseudo-liberal societies. They will be a lot less considerate of us that we have been of them while we transferred jobs and money into their society.
• dillondoyle 5y ago
  One point I haven't seen brought up yet is the amount of interaction and forum type communications that happen in modern games within the context of CCPs wanting to control all online speech. The TV show Occupied (norway Okkupert) has a fun example where a militarized group uses video game live audio chat to secretly communicate and pass info. I think there are memes about COD waiting rooms too illustrating digital forums of speech, even the most dumb teenager smack talk you can think of! And that seems scary to CCP.
  • graderjs 5y ago
    Could be, but i don't think they have a problem policing speech anywhere else, why would they particularly focus on it in games in a way to restrict the time? If it was the case there's always another online property people can occur to converse. the correct English acronym is CPC now, i think
    • dillondoyle 5y ago
      Didn't know about that acronym! Yeah i think the point that they don't have a problem policing speech everywhere else kind of points out that this is just another excuse (or value add minimally). The online places that the less tech savvy majority have is shrinking.
      • graderjs 5y ago
        Yeah fair enough that's an interesting way to turn it around. I guess we come at it from different perspectives. I suppose I get you see it as the main thing the CPC is trying to do is control people's thoughts and speech and everything is subsumed to that goal and so all the other reasons are just fake pretexts in order to achieve that single goal. But I suppose I have a more broad view of the cpc's goals and while I definitely acknowledge and I'm okay to some extent with their attempts to control speech because I see the utility of them doing that and I understand the reason they try to do that. I also think they have a lot of other goals that they're trying to do. you know they are trying to create various types of social reform and get people to behave in ways that they think of as good for the country. so I do believe that this is genuinely about that; I mean they want to free up young people to do some useful work and enhance themselves and not just you know become sort of slaves to these game companies and make the money or become addicted to that kind of behavior. but I think the argument you propose is sort of an effective counter narrative to the cpc's policy argument there I guess so if people wanted to criticize it they could claim it was just you know another suppression of speech but at the same time that trope seems a little bit tired and stretched thin particularly I think if you look at the realities of what they do achieve and I think from the point of view of a CPC adversary you know the danger of using thinly stretched tropes is they lose value and they lose weight over time. so if that's your bag I suggesy coming up with sort of a constantly you know updating set of counter narratives. because that's certainly what the CPC narrative engineers and propagandists are doing they are always refining their rhetoric and their arguments so if you want to compete you can't do it with a tired thin stretch trope you have to kind of constantly be innovating. Hope that helps! ;P ;) xx
• SMAAART 5y ago
  How is that enforced?
• graderjs 5y ago
  The energy and creativity would come out other ways, hopefully through more businesses, invention and art.
  • mippenhappen 5y ago
    What? This is about kids. They are gonna play more offline games, or watch more "TV", or masturbate more, or find ways around the rule.
• lanevorockz 5y ago
  Soon to be law in your nearest Democrat city
• zarzavat 5y ago
  In an effort to get people to look into each other’s eyes more, and also to appease the mutes, the government has decided to allot each person exactly one hundred and sixty-seven words, per day. When the phone rings, I put it to my ear without saying hello. In the restaurant I point at chicken noodle soup. I am adjusting well to the new way. Late at night, I call my long distance lover, proudly say I only used fifty-nine today. I saved the rest for you. When she doesn’t respond, I know she’s used up all her words, so I slowly whisper I love you thirty-two and a third times. After that, we just sit on the line and listen to each other breathe. - Jeffery McDaniel
  • omot 5y ago
    Dang… perfect metaphor.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• mlindner 5y ago
  3 hours a week is nothing... When I was a kid I was restricted to 2 hours a day for a certain period of time and I thought it was insufferable. A friend had restrictions of 30 minutes a day and I couldn't believe they lived with that.
• stretchwithme 5y ago
  THAT will lead to the downfall of the regime :-) OK, probably not. Kids will figure out how to go around it somehow.
• WiSaGaN 5y ago
  China hasn't forbidden them plaing games. China has forbidden them from playing online games for more than 3 hours a week. You can play GTA 5, the last of us, the witcher 3 just fine. No one will care if you play Inside for 8 hours a day either. What the government and Chinese parents do care, is not let children play too much those games designed to cause addition, and constant in-game purchasing .
• kerryoco 5y ago
  Creativity loves constraints. It will be really interesting to see what types of games or hacks are cooked up to get around this. Perhaps a burgeoning distributed gaming scene.
• fma 5y ago
  Most people probably don't know...but a time-limit ban was already in place in 2019 so this isn't really news. This just reduces it more. Old ban: 1.5 hours per weekday, 3 hours on weekends
• nwellinghoff 5y ago
  The key to making games productive is NOT to buy them for your children :). Or at least make it a rare event. When I was a kid, my parents refused to buy me a machine good enough to play the games I wanted. As a result, I got scrappy and found a way to piece together a computer that was decent enough to play at least "something". The main game I was interested in was the infamous "Star Control II". I was able to social engineer my mother to nag my father into bringing home a dusty 386 that was in his office so he could "work from home". It was weak sauce but back then you had stacks of manuals to read, and I spent endless hours "tweaking" and learning everything to get things to run. Scrapping ancient free hardware from my “rich” friends. Little did I know I was learning valuable skills. Before long I was building computers for the whole neighborhood, went on to be a CS major and now do large scale software. Make the kid earn the fun.
  • TheFattestNinja 5y ago
    I play online LoL at top 5% level on a 2011 laptop with integrated graphics though, free to download. Not sure that approach really works anymore.
    • nwellinghoff 5y ago
      hmm maybe it has to be a linux based system or something these days. Also, don't kids always want to play the latest ?
• banku_brougham 5y ago
  So far the only thread is about the utility of video games. This is not the first thing that comes to mind for me. How can they possibly implement this regulation?
• cardosof 5y ago
  I love how a very small group of the elite may rule on how millions of parents do their parenting on such small matters. The less parents need to think, the more time they have! /s
• akho 5y ago
  I expect to see lots of new “educational” apps with addictive qualities.
• dang 5y ago
  To read all the 1000+ comments in this thread, you need to click More at the bottom of the page, or like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28356141&p=2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28356141&p=2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28356141&p=3 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28356141&p=3 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28356141&p=4 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28356141&p=4 Comments like this will eventually go away...sorry for the annoyance.
• rambojazz 5y ago
  I don't know how they can enforce this rule. First off, they can share accounts with adults; or pay adults to share their accounts. Second, I reckon people in China are already familiar with VPN services.
• dgellow 5y ago
  This year has made it clear that counting on the Chinese market for your products is a very risky decision. It’s now transparent that the government come can from nowhere with a swift decision to ban or heavily restrict your industry as soon as announced. I don’t know who will want to deal with that kind of risk. Today the decision is for children, tomorrow another restriction can be for adults too, and you would see your audience vanish instantaneously.
• pavlovskyi 5y ago
  I really dont like that idea, in my opinion it should started with expending self awareness in parents more than moving center of gravity straight on the children.
• Gravyness 5y ago
  Great, now they will finally have time for social media.
• ElectricMind 5y ago
  It amusing how people are justifying playing video games. Backward rationalization is amazing. If parents are defending it, I guess apple is not going to fall away from the tree, is it?
• WhyNotHugo 5y ago
  3 hours a week seems SO extreme. As an introvert kid, socialising mainly happened via video-games for me (and most of my circle of friends). With 3hs a week of ANY social interaction, I doubt I'd ever had made any friends, or developed ANY social skills at all.
• emadabdulrahim 5y ago
  Instead of regulating played time of video games for kids, how improving education so it's actually engaging and entertaining to kids, then they won't feel like they have to escape their boring and dull childhood? I'm obviously against that kind of regulation coming from the state. I'm saying that and I was addicted to WoW during end of high school and college. But guess what? It was better than any alternative. My life sucked at home, at school, and personally. I lived in country where I was a misfit. I was lucky to have a fun outlet that also made me fluent in English and learn a few skills along the way.
• meristohm 5y ago
  After reading and thinking more about this, I’ll add that in many ways I’m still an impressionable child who struggles with setting healthy limits (less so now three years into parenthood in my 40s), and regulations like these seem both draconian and helpful. Thankfully my parents said firmly “no” to me buying a videogame console while I was living at home. They’d seen how easily sucked-in I could be when we had an Atari, C64, 386, and while visiting friends with Nintendo. Better I spend my escape-time reading, and better still that they find a way to help me recognize and process my emotions, but none of us quite knew how at the time. I don’t blame them, mind; that’s a heavy burden to carry around. I’ll do better for my child. While I am responsible for my actions, I am still learning and growing, and it is helpful to have government looking out for our collective health.
• danielyaa5 5y ago
  I’m appalled at how many people are defending this. I don’t think it’s comparable to any other western bans, I.e alcohol and tobacco. We don’t ban anything that goes into a child’s mind as long as their parents consent. Just because video games aren’t in societies best interest doesn’t mean a child should be barred from doing what they love. Man it’s so hard to fit in for some people and this is there escape. This really seems like just another of the hundreds of rules China uses to sap the absolute freedom and childhood out of kids. The school schedule is absolutely insane. I do think this will have negative effects on the Chinese culture
• thewileyone 5y ago
  If you look at what China has done with online companies like Alibaba, Didi, Tencent, etc., there seems to be a method to their madness. Essentially, China doesn't see the value in having the largest online marketplace, or the largest ride-sharing platform, or the best e-sports team. If you look at their 5 year plan release this year, there's a huge focus on research on next generation technologies. This is a write-up about it: https://merics.org/en/short-analysis/chinas-14th-five-year-plan-strengthening-domestic-base-become-superpower https://merics.org/en/short-analysis/chinas-14th-five-year-p... Right now, games like Apex Legends, League of Legends, etc. suck up a lot of time and I think China doesn't want its youth to do that. It would rather them focus on how they can contribute as they grow older. China has always had a heavy hand in social engineering and this is just another example. Whether it's good or not, is left to be seen. If China finishes building their city in space and lands on Mars, while the rest of the world are watching e-sports, don't be surprised.
• throwaway675309 5y ago
  Anyone who seriously thinks that the reason for these restrictions are anything other than a means for the CCP to exert control and remind big tech (the entertainment industry in this case) exactly where they stand in the pecking order is simply naive. For the children my ass...
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