44 ms·
MacBook Pro
- aabajian 10y agoThe top 14 comments are negative. Five of them are about Microsoft's announcement yesterday. It's almost as if MSFT is paying for these comments.
- godmodus 10y agoso it's more a toy than a work computer. They boosted the "entertainment" factor - nothing else really. Lenovo ruinning the thinkpad, Apple turning pros into toys. it's been a harsh few years. - i think there's slowly a good hole to fill in terms of proper workstation laptops that are modular and robust. are people still hanging on to their 2012 pros? last i checked they still are.
- mickronome 10y agoYeah, one of those and one a bit newer. Have been waiting for one with 32G RAM since forever, but feared they would have time to bodge the entire line before getting around to it. Sometimes I hate being even _partially_ right. From expensive tool to expensive toy.
- godmodus 10y agoEver took a look at the HP Z Book? I might grab one if apple doesn't bring something out next year that has proper builtin hardware. A Z book can take 64Gb Ecc ram and has a xeon inside I think and it's very modular. Sadly not very compact tho.
- ihuman 10y agoI'm happy to see the escape button is still there,and you can bring back the function buttons by pressing the "function" button on the physical keyboard.
- avitzurel 10y agoI can't get over the ESC key. I need to experience it in order to make a final decision but even though it's "there" the position looks awkward.
- BooneJS 10y agoCan't escape Apple's courage. ;)
- ctocoder 10y agoLooks like you can program the touchbar to have an esc key.
- avitzurel 10y agoSaw that, but the position is really weird. So weird that I am not sure muscle memory will adapt. Since I use a real keyboard 85% of the time, the 15% I use on the mac is bound to be painful.
- falcolas 10y agoI keep watching it vanish, though, as other contextual menus overwrite it. Even the terminal "bar" has a contextual menu that will hide it.
- mcescalante 10y agoThe entire function row still exists including the Escape Key. The Touch Bar is customizable, and I would imagine we will see a "global ESC" application pretty quick.
- anonymfus 10y agoThere should be a single thread about all announcements on that event to don't flood front page with separate submissions.
- ihuman 10y agoUsually there's a thread for each new/updated device. I don't know if there is an official policy on it.
- rayiner 10y agoI think the touch bar is gimmicky, but I have to give Apple credit for bucking the trend of hiding UI and making functionality more rather than less visible to users. The trend in the mobile OSs has been to hide more and more functions being hamburger menus (Android), toolbars that only pop up when you tap them (Apple Maps), cryptic flat icons, etc. It's totally undiscoverable. This is the opposite: context-sensitive commands that show up and let the user know what he or she can do. EDIT: This is how I feel about the "ESC" key thing as an Emacs user: https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/59dp9u/apple_flips_off_vim_users_removes_escape_key_in https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/59dp9u/apple_f....
- willtim 10y agoDon't forget the 2014 X1 Carbon had a similar touch strip design that they reverted due to user backlash. It appears that the new MBP has a similar keyboard to the MacBook, if you're an Emacs user, you deserve a better keyboard.
- aljones 10y agoIt isn't that similiar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L-mIqJW1v0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L-mIqJW1v0
- stephenboyd 10y agoI'm typing on a 2014 X1 Carbon now. Its touch-sensitive function row really is a disappointment. The inherent flaws in the design concept have all been elaborated in these discussions, but the X1C also had a poor implementation that Apple could easily improve on. For example, it takes almost a whole second to change modes, there's often a delay when tapping an icon, and sometimes taps just don't register.
- dman 10y agoIs there really a return of the 17 inch?
- randallsquared 10y agoNo, sadly. 13 and 15.
- dman 10y agoSigh. Looks like there is a typo in the article - "According to the company, it’s the thinnest and lightest version of the Pro to date, with the 17-inch version of the laptop measuring in at 14.9mm thick. The 15-inch version of the notebook weighs in at four pounds and the smallest 13-inch version comes in at three pounds." . That is a cruel error to make since it made me hope for one.
- Hoasi 10y agoFalse hope for me as well. Disappointed already.
- dchuk 10y ago(Posted in another thread, that probably will not make it as high as this) I think conceptually this is really neat, but it could potentially suffer from one major flaw: I hardly ever look down at my keyboard. A flat, digital screen containing changing buttons does not cater well to touch typists, of which you can reasonably assume most are who use a macbook pro. Touch ID is sweet though.
- manuelflara 10y agoYeah, I thought the same thing (specially since 95% of the time I'm using my laptop, I actually have it closed, hooked up to a screen and with external keyboard and mouse). But I guess this will be useful for most casual users, since they often look down to their keyboards (and to be honest, the keyboard and the screen aren't that far apart in a laptop) and who don't usually use/know hotkeys for common actions they perform, and which now they'll have access to through the touch bar. But for most developers, yeah this seems like a gimmick. And yes, Touch ID is sweet. That 3 second payment demo was great.
- jonknee 10y ago> But I guess this will be useful for most casual users, since they often look down to their keyboards Which is weird it's a feature exclusively on their "Pro" line of laptops.
- glassx 10y agoWell, there are many kinds of "professionals". Designers, photographers or people working with audio/video production don't really need touch-typing. And those are arguably the kind of "Pro" users Apple is targeting, not coders.
- jonknee 10y agoAnd those are almost all people who don't use a 13-15" screen for their work whenever they can help it. Which makes the touch bar useless.
- felixrieseberg 10y agoI cannot understand how a company like Apple, known and proven to build exceptional hardware, won't let me use my iPhone headset with the new MacBook.
- duaneb 10y agoWhat is an iPhone headset? How does it differ from other headsets? Edit: thank you. Does that mean the female lightning connector would only be used for headphones? Yeah, talk about vendor lockin and connector deprecation.
- nandhp 10y agoLightning connector, since the iPhone 7 has no headphone jack.
- BonoboIO 10y agoLightning Port
- kogepathic 10y agoLightning headphones.
- rrdharan 10y agoNo lightning jack on the laptop, is what the poster meant.
- imron 10y agoIt no longer uses a standard headphone plug.
- matt4077 10y agoHN is full of people who touch-type F9, I know. But I'm pretty excited about the toolbar. In anything but my primary editor, it will dramatically increase my ability to get by keyboard-only. For 99% of people, the increased discoverability will dramatically increase their ability to use shortcuts. And even the other 1% don't spend all their time within a set of applications small enough to memorize all shortcuts.
- falcolas 10y agoSure, so long as you're OK looking down at your keyboard to find the right function on the touchbar every time you want to use it. Better, IMO, to use a mapped key chord.
- cdubzzz 10y ago> HN is full of people who touch-type F9, I know. This is interesting. I don't really have an opinion about the feature either way, but the touch-type issue didn't even cross my mind while reading about it. I never learned to do it and can't think of anyone I know who does. Although I'm sure more than enough people here have very different experiences. I wonder what percentages of computer users actually do touch-type regularly...
- matt4077 10y agoI can't think of any argument except the missing tactile feedback, considering it is strictly equal or better in any other regard (as you can apparently customize it to revert back to just static keys). And I'm pretty sure 90%+ of people here touch type when within the 0-9a-Z range. I just doubt that many people press, without looking, F5 to `continue` in the chrome developer tools. Because (a) you don't remember shortcuts for any app you use less than an hour a day and (b) f5 is a bt too far out of reach (at least for me) to get their using the usual landmarks.
- igravious 10y agoPoll: Do you touch type? (by mcobrien 1723 days ago) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3566079 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3566079 ▲ The Right Way 318 points ▲ Sloppily, without using home keys 210 points ▲ No 45 points
- bluehazed 10y agoVim users: best of luck.
- pawelduda 10y agoThis is a nice excuse to start using ctrl + [ rather than esc key. It is even better if you remap your caps lock key to ctrl. :)
- beefield 10y agoIn non-english keyboards [ is often behind some key combination (e.g. altgr - 8). Compared to just clicking esc (or remapped caps lock) it is difficult for me to see how people with these keyboards would be willing to go for ctrl-[.
- nolite 10y agojk (no, not just kidding.. jk is my ESC shortcut)
- pabloski 10y agoNo problem! The world is full of laptop manufacturers.
- thatrascaltiger 10y agoNow might be a good time to rebind Caps-Lock to Esc.
- madlynormal 10y agonmap jj <esc>
- gizmo 10y agoWhy would any professional want to look at their keyboard to do anything? This is just a reinvention of the F-keys row from the 80s, but worse: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/Norton_Commander_5.51.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/Norton_Comman...
- bluedino 10y agoLenovo dropped it from the X1 already.
- brian-armstrong 10y agoReplacing hardware keys with a touchscreen on a laptop made for power users is a sign that Apple has lost touch with what made the MacBook Pro popular in the first place. I think they could have just upgraded to the newest CPU and put a new battery in and made everyone happy.
- n00b101 10y ago+ NVIDIA GPU
- rsync 10y agoGet used to using "mac pro'd" as a verb. "They finally mac pro'd the macbook pros."
- revicon 10y agoI think the thing that is being missed here is that Apple doesn't make much money off of "power users". They make money off people buying movies on itunes and subscribing to icloud for their photos. Everything Apple is building is aimed toward that market, emojis and all. If you feel that Apple isn't designing with you in mind it's probably because you've outgrown them. Time to look at alternatives.
- dudurocha 10y agoYou are missing the real statistics. Only 11% of all apple revenues come from services (app store, Icloud, itunes). apple makes money from selling phones and computers. If you want to sell a $1,799 notebook (or even $2,399 for the 15 inch version), they need to think on power users.
- 0x0 10y agoThey still need "power users" to build apps for iOS and macOS.
- brian-armstrong 10y agoApple catered to power users for years with the MBP. That was the entire point of the device and why many programmers said it was the best laptop on the market. I'm not saying it was necessarily a good market decision (though you'll see no shortage of MBPs in the bay area) but that was the strategy. Now that's clearly changing.
- benologist 10y agoTBH the touch bar seems like a half-arsed response to everyone else getting touch screens. Swiping photos, swiping timelines ... would be more natural on your actual screen, and almost as natural just using the trackpad or mouse.
- daturkel 10y agoOh wow, you were 5 minutes ahead of my comment with the exact same sentiment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12807528 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12807528
- cpr 10y agoExcept that you can reach these "keys" with your hands staying on the keyboard. No "gorilla arm" problem.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- orky56 10y agoMicrosoft Ribbon on the HUD to Apple Touchbar on the Keyboard. I think this was a natural transition since it is more customizable and baked into more applications. The mobile/social UIs have created an opportunity for Apple to make a more modular interface that goes beyond the screen, or at least extends the screen onto the keyboard. This also allows Apple to avoid making the primary screen a touchscreen since they ergonomics don't make sense with the current form factors. Also, by not making the entire keyboard surface touch it ensures the primary typing experience with haptic feedback stays intact.
- blocke 10y agoThe touch bar examples shown are a usability disaster. You're going to hide UI from the screen and make me keep looking at the keyboard to find functionality? I stopped looking at the keyboard every 10 seconds when I learned how to touch type. The presenter spent most of his time looking at the keyboard and not the screen. This gimmick will disappear when Apple decides a touch screen is needed to complete the slow merge with iOS.
- ihuman 10y agoWhat UI are they hiding? The ones they've shown are all new ones, or shortcuts to existing ones (like how the function keys were used).
- agumonkey 10y agoAlas it's probably true. Albeit, maybe with time space memory kicks in if the app uses the bar in order to promote really important "instructions". I didn't see any mention of tactile feedback, which is sad. The idea of a more generic dynamic keyboard will have to wait for a v2, or maybe longer.
- nnain 10y agoExactly, I want to look at the screen continuously with my fingers feeling the keyboard. Too much eye movement and distraction from the main task. Personally, this will just slow me down.
- nnain 10y agoFinally, they also introduced a separate model with the traditional keyboard layout!
- guyzero 10y agoNever learning to touch type has finally paid off!
- 3pt14159 10y agoThis is not for when you are in "get stuff down quickly" mode. They might have predictive text, but I don't think anyone will use it. For me it's when I'm editing images in Lightroom I wish I could do more stuff full screen so that I don't have the visual clutter in the way.
- Sgt_Apone 10y ago4 USB-C ports. Kind of a bummer that I have to get a dongle to charge my iPhone SE with this thing.
- oldmanjay 10y agoI imagine they'll happily sell you a USB-C->lightning cable at an inconvenient price.
- profmonocle 10y agoI wonder how long until the cables bundled with new iPhones/iPads have USB-C instead of USB-A. I suspect they'll start doing this with the next generation of devices, maybe with a bundled USB A to C adapter.
- FireBeyond 10y ago$39 to be precise (are you kidding me?!?) but $25 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-MK0X2AM-USB-C-Lightning-Cable/dp/B01DGYJBQA https://www.amazon.com/Apple-MK0X2AM-USB-C-Lightning-Cable/d... That's a joke. Wow.
- akramhussein 10y agoThey really screwed over iOS devs here. I have multiple cables as backups and in different bags etc - all need replacing now...except that I can't use the USB-C variant in the power brick :( I also do Android dev...need to get a USB-C to Micro-USB too just for that! Just one big mess.
- stcredzero 10y agoI wonder if someone is going to sell a power brick that doubles as a docking station/hub?
- nicky0 10y agoCan you expand on what you mean about not being able to use the power brick?
- duaneb 10y agoThey aren't buttons, it's a touch screen. Meaning: fuck blind people and touch typists.
- binthere 10y agoExactly! I don't understand how Apple, known for being a pioneer in accessibility, does something like this. They might kill their keyboard altogether already.
- kgwgk 10y agohow do blind people use current macbook pro laptops? (serious question). Edit: at least there is an option to get actual function keys in the 13" model if they are required to use Voice Over and they cannot be reliable found on the touch bar... and the user won't really care about the screen size (I'm joking, I can think of many reasons why a blind person might want/need to use the 15" model).
- talmand 10y agoWith the keyboard and VoiceOver.
- mikestew 10y agoYeah, especially given their track record with accessibility on their other touch screen devices.
- adamnemecek 10y agoDo apps have to be changed to use the OLED bar or does it work automagically.
- daturkel 10y agoI think in a few years, we're going to be looking back at this as a half-assed hack before we were ready for a macbook with a full touch screen. Touch typists (which I'd imagine are an increasing proportion of computer users) don't look at the keyboard. Touch cues (ridges on the F and J keys, placement and size of keys) guide typing and control without the need to look. Even if you just used the touchbar to allow for context-sensitive buttons, I'd lose the real tactical feedback of a keyboard and need to build new muscle memory for each application. Worse is when you start putting GUIs on the touch bar—now I'm really expected to look down and scroll through a library of photos or find my favorite website on this tiny strip which isn't on my screen? Why?
- toufka 10y agoOr maybe a full-sized touch 'interface' where the entire keyboard used to be. Imagine if the entire bottom half of the laptop was one of those touch-pads with some kind of haptic feedback. You could dynamically have mouse, keyboard, contextually customized input the entire mirror of the screen itself. Input below, output above. A curious concept. If this little touch panel merged with the trackpad (a better placement for it in my mind), you'd have a pretty powerful input system.
- digi_owl 10y agoWas it Lenovo that demoed something like that just recently, or was it some other asian company? Edit: Ah found it, the Lenovo Yoga Book. http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/lenovo/yoga-book/ http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/tablets/lenovo/yoga-book/
- toufka 10y agoIf done properly, I fully expect that kind of input idea to be inevitable. If done poorly, it's a total failure and prevents any work from being done. In order to bridge that gap it seems Apple is starting small.
- hprotagonist 10y agoAs long as TouchBar supports IDE actions, we're good. If it doesn't, I'll be damned if I have to type Fn Ctrl Alt 6 just to step in a debugger.
- JoshGlazebrook 10y agoThey didn't skimp out on the graphics card for once.
- rl3 10y ago"6th-generation Intel processor" So in other words it's using Skylake, not Kaby Lake (7th-generation). No mention of display resolution either, which leads me to believe the 15" model won't feature a 4K display. It's using an unspecified AMD Polaris GPU. There's also a 13" MBP sans Touch Bar, featuring normal function keys.
- TurboHaskal 10y ago"6th-generation Intel processor" (Audience claps)
- Jayakumark 10y agoIf you notice its mostly the first 2 rows who are clapping for everything, they are apple employees or executives
- dexterbt1 10y agoIIRC, AMD Polaris 460 or 450 (?)
- rl3 10y agoFrom the order page: Intel Iris Graphics 540 (13" sans Touch Bar) Intel Iris Graphics 550 (13" with Touch Bar) Radeon Pro 450 with 2GB memory (15") Radeon Pro 455 with 2GB memory (15" top-end)
- AhtiK 10y agoThere's also option "Radeon Pro 460 with 4GB memory" [1] [1] http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MLH42LL/A&step=config# http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MLH42L...
- lostgame 10y agoUnbelievably unimpressive compared to Microsoft's announcement yesterday, and 45 minutes into the keynote I still have no idea what the specs are. I don't need some stupid touch strip on my Mac, I need a touch screen. I haven't been this let down by product announcements ever as I have been this year with everything Apple's done. Now we get all our standard USB ports removed, very little by way of actual hardware improvements, are we even going to get an upgraded Mac Pro that might meet the minimum 4GB gfx card requirement for Oculus, etc? I've sworn by Apple products for a decade and a half. I'm done.
- randomsofr 10y agoI've never been a fan of touch screens on a computer, but this new macbook thing looks good.
- simplexion 10y agoI wasn't a fan of it about 3 years ago before I had to work with them daily at my job. Now when a user brings in a laptop that doesn't have a touchscreen I tend to smudge the display because touchscreens are so damn useful.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- lostgame 10y agoDidn't think about the 'touch typing' thing others have mentioned...totally valid. Furthermore, the lack of a Mac Pro update is just frickin' pathetic.
- Jtsummers 10y agoAs a touch typist, I'm not sure this'd be an issue for me. The distance between this Touch Bar and the monitor is minimal. With a bit of experience with a particular app, I imagine I'd be able to use my peripheral vision and muscle memory more often than not to achieve any particular function. It's not like the distance between my desktop monitor and keyboard. That would be incredibly annoying as I'd actually have to take my eyes completely off the monitor to see the Touch Bar in that situation.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- LeicaLatte 10y agoMicrosoft’s dominance over desktops has never changed. Be it servers, PCs or game consoles. And it is Apple who have forged their own path into mobile computing these last 15 years.
- sidcool 10y agoI for one like the new MacBook pro. Good idea to bring touch id, touch bar etc. Think programmable bar. I m sure it can be locked to standard mode. HNers are a tough crowd to please.
- TurboHaskal 10y agoThey better show another computer refresh later on to save they keynote. This is incredibly gimmicky and disappointing.
- davesque 10y agoAnd...nope.
- 6stringmerc 10y agoSo, Apple didn't stick with their, ahem, "courage" and eliminate the headphone jack from the MBP? How curious.
- KingMob 10y agoPossibly because professionals with actual pro headphones won't stand for it? I'm seriously contemplating switching, but if they'd tried to make me buy a dongle for my $300 headphones, there'd be no question I'd buy a Win/Linux box.
- satysin 10y agoThe touch bar could do with being a little taller. Considering there is space above it it is a shame they couldn't make it 3-4mm bigger. I find it amusing Apple makes such a big deal of adding a fingerprint reader to a laptop, I have had that for about a decade on all my Windows machines. Hardly anything special these days. So it is thinner, yay!(?), but it was pretty damn thin anyway, would have been nice to have a 20 hour battery (estimating on size differences if same battery life as previous). God I hope they improved the butterfly switches from v1. Those things were like using a Blackberry keyboard on a laptop. Disgusting IMHO. Does anyone know if their "wide" colour display beats the OLED in the new Lenovo? Edit: Also 4 USB-C, how long until they kill the Lightning port on the iPhone/iPad do you think? Seems idiotic to have a phone and tablet with one connector and a laptop (and desktops I assume in the future) with a totally different port. They should have switched to USB-C on the iPhone 7 when they killed off the 3.5mm jack IMHO.
- grzm 10y ago"I find it amusing Apple makes such a big deal of adding a fingerprint reader to a laptop, I have had that for about a decade on all my Windows machines." I think it's more than just the the fingerprint reader though, right? The secure enclave and integration with a payment system is pretty compelling as well, isn't it? Granted, I'm not familiar with the fingerprint readers you've been using. Are they integrated into the machine? Do they have the equivalent of these secure enclave hardware?
- satysin 10y agoThe fingerprint should be stored in the TPM. The payment features have been possible for a long time although not built into Windows so you would have had to use third party software to manage that. This is what Windows Hello is supposed to unify however I cannot remember if Microsoft has actually deployed these features yet, I know they have talked about them. The hard part is getting everything to support a single way of managing secure payment. Obviously with Apple Pay this gives you that single platform however I wonder if Microsoft would fall foul of the law if they only support bio-metric payment with an MS Account?
- binthere 10y agoThis trend of killing hardware buttons needs to stop. It's very inconvenient. The sense of touch is important for me. It's one of the annoying things I don't like about many Android devices and it seems that Apple is slowly transitioning to this as well.
- exBarrelSpoiler 10y agoThey're probably working on some sort of next-gen haptic feedback interface.
- oliv__ 10y agoIn the meantime, can I have my buttons plz?
- santaclaus 10y agoHardware buttons have no place in a post millennial world. Kids under 12 don't even know what physical buttons are.
- rjohnk 10y ago2056 After decades of touch interfaces, Apple releases, "Button" a revolutionary device that connects the physical world with the digital. FEEL the movement. HEAR the keypress. Old millenials gesture wildly and swipe back and forth on VR forums saying how amazing it is to actually use senses of touch.
- sandGorgon 10y agoFour Thunderbolt 3 ports that support USB-C. Any one of the four ports can be a charging port. /win Hopefully, this will disrupt the rest of the industry. The XPS 13 is a brilliant machine (IMHO better than the Mac) but why did they not use the USB-C for charging is beyond me.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- raesene6 10y agoFor me it would've been a win if they'd also included some other ports for backwards compatibility. Having only USB-C ports means that pretty much every user will have to have a set of dongles for things like USB2/3, HDMI, Display port etc, which doesn't seem like it's an ideal approach.
- sandGorgon 10y agoas the iPhone 7 keynote had mentioned.. its about courage. And in case of type-c, most new products (and charging cables) are moving towards a single standard. Its well worth the temporary pain I'd say ;)
- raesene6 10y agoit'll be years before the legacy peripherals are gone, would it have hurt Apple too much to include a USB3? So all the users of the product get years of inconvenience and expense for "courage" ... that's a word you could use, probably not the one I'd go for.
- hajile 10y agoUSB-C doesn't seem like a great replacement for their current solution though. I really like not having someone ruin my ports or having my computer fly off the table.
- mixmastamyk 10y ago> why did they not use the USB-C for charging is beyond me. I believe it is able to be charged through usb-c but they provided the normal power adapter also.
- makecheck 10y agoWhen I am at a desk, the lid is closed so both TouchID and touch-anything effectively don’t matter, including any display information. In fact, I am worried about applications gradually putting information only on the Touch Bar that cannot be found anywhere else. Perhaps they could have placed a TouchID button on the SIDE of the laptop (usable when open or closed). And hopefully the ENTIRE Touch Bar display is also available as a global window ON the screen so that it is still able to display/activate things when you are lid-closed connected to an external display. The real shock though is that a lot of these changes show a lack of usability testing. Like, “10 minutes in the hallway” level of testing. How much serious work can actually be accomplished with such tiny touch keys that require you to look down at them, constantly changing and mostly unpredictable? Before ever creating new hardware for this, they should have enhanced macOS to provide an on-screen version of this ever-changing toolbar to encourage more universal support from developers and work out the usability kinks. Instead, now they’re stuck: this thing is in your laptop, with all its flaws.
- grzm 10y ago"When I am at a desk, the lid is closed so both TouchID and touch-anything effectively don’t matter, including any display information." "And hopefully the ENTIRE Touch Bar display is also available as a global window ON the screen so that it is still able to display/activate things when you are lid-closed connected to an external display." You make a good point. I can imagine adding a Touch Bar to keyboards. That doesn't address the TouchID button, but I believe that might addressed with tech like the Apple Watch or iPhone.
- SysArchitect 10y agoThere's no reason they couldn't add a full secure enclave on a USB based keyboard with TouchID. Register your fingerprints into TouchID, they are stored securely on the keyboard, with some secure communication between keyboard/computer... now you can easily log in and or do Apple pay.
- grzm 10y ago
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ROFISH 10y agoNo Displayport 1.3/1.4 means no 5k displays. :( Why spend thousands on a new device when you can't even use modern displays from a standard out since 2014?
- madlynormal 10y agoA short segment of this event specifically showed the new Macbook Pro connected to dual 5k monitors.
- anupshinde 10y agoIt seems like they built the touch bar first and then asked people to build use cases around it. A touch screen with a software enabled touch bar would have been much better
- Yabood 10y agoWhy do the Apple presenters keep bringing up the whole "use both hands" point when demoing touch bar. I mean isn't that how keyboards are used? Without looking I might add. I was ready to drop 3K on a new MacBook pro, but now I'm not sure.
- grzm 10y ago"Why do the Apple presenters keep bringing up the whole "use both hands" point when demoing touch bar." I think it's to reinforce that it's multi-touch capable.
- Wonnk13 10y agoI'm no longer the target audience of Apple. I still own an iPhone, but their notebook line doesn't appeal to me at all. I'm still using my aluminum macbook from '08 and my next one will probably be a chromebook running Fedora.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 10y agoLots of 2008 Unibody Macbook owners coming out today. My sentiments exactly.
- davesque 10y agoIronically, I feel that the touch bar just makes it more glaringly obvious that the screen itself is not a touch screen. It invites you to expect that you can interact with your computer via touch. I'm sure there are going to be a lot of people who go right from tapping some icon on the touch bar to mistakenly tapping a close button on the actual display. Seems like a UX failure.
- mixmastamyk 10y agoWith the touch bar next to the keyboard however, you don't have to raise your arms up to the main screen. It may make sense on that level.
- digi_owl 10y agoCould have sworn i have seen this come and bomb at least once already...
- btym 10y ago>The space is a small multitouch screen that utilizes gestures and taps to perform a wide variety of different tasks Oh, like trackpad gestures? >from showing typing suggestions to displaying tools for various apps – all based on the context of what the user is doing at the time. Oh, like a toolbar?
- reustle 10y agoI'm so happy they are continuing to offer the 13" pro with function keys.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- cpr 10y agoOf course, as some wag said a while ago, the cost of the MBP that I want remains at $3K. ;-)
- mikestew 10y agoI don't know if John Dvorak was the first to say it, but I recall him saying that in PC Mag (?) in the mid-80s: the price of the computer you want will always be about $3K. Less accurate over the last ten years or so, but for Macs it remains true.
- codeinstyle 10y agoAm I the only one disappointed by the butterfly keyboards on the new Macbook Pros? I've been a Mac user for roughly about ten years now, but I think it's time to switch back to Windows.
- wingcommander 10y agoI agree, I've had the 12" Macbook for more than a year and I still hate the butterfly keyboard.
- icedchai 10y agoIMO, Mac laptop keyboards have been going down hill since they switched to the chicklet style. I much preferred the pre-2008 MacBook Pros with "regular" keyboards.
- ftrflyr 10y agoIs Apple completely out of touch with reality? The Mac Book Pro starts with 256GB? Same processor as my current 13in MBP? Disappointed.
- lukeholder 10y agoIt's not the same processor at all though?
- ftrflyr 10y agoI stand corrected on the processor bit - I overlooked the "Dual." I still stand by what I said about storage.
- lukeholder 10y agoIt's not the dual or quad, it's the whole CPU architecture upgraded, they are now using intel skylake CPUs.
- weinzierl 10y agoThe new MacBooks are here and one of them will come with function keys and ESC included. Yeah.
- merb 10y agothe 15" now has less ssd space for the same price than it had previously, i'm not sure if that satisfies me. also the lack of good docks for USB-c is a real bummer. better wait till 17/18 and get one with kaby lake
- trevorhartman 10y agoAny word on max memory? 16GB is standard on 15" but can it be upgraded to 32GB?
- trevorhartman 10y ago16GB is the max :( http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
- ssijak 10y agoof course it can
- davesque 10y agoOther than the touch bar, I feel like the only really interesting thing here is the 4 thunderbolt 3 ports. The rest just seems really underwhelming and leaves me feeling like they hardly put any effort into this.
- ookblah 10y agohonestly, pretty let down by the event. apple touchbar is ... i cant' even. it's like trying to force features that were on my phone on to the laptop. and this thing is supposed to be geared toward professionals. 1) what if i'm docked to an external monitor + keyboard? becomes completely useless. 2) going forward and back in safari? "quick type" autosuggestions when typing? really is that the innovation? i'm pretty sure i can type and/or correct myself faster than it takes to look down and touch an autocorrected version of what word i just typed. why not build that ui into you know.. the on screen software. this is just a terrible ui decision that was brought over from a phone... which makes 100% sense there given the small real estate. anybody who uses pro apps already knows all the primary shortcuts or remaps them so they are easy to access by feel. now you require me to stare at my keyboard and manage two touch surfaces that aren't close to each other. 3) and thanks for removing my esc key and replacing it with a one that changes context every time i switch apps (or even within an app). i'm sure that goes well with all the developers out there. that pretty much leaves being able to... quickly select emojis in messages and touch id (which admittedly was very cool). seriously debating this (given the bumped specs) or a previous gen macbook pro or new macbook. if i could move out of apple ecosystem i'm seriously considering it this time around.
- huac 10y agoI'm very sad that the MagSafe connectors will be gone. It's one of my favorite parts of the Mac ecosystem, and a huge advantage.
- lostgame 10y agoWhy? Why? Why? Are they actively trying to piss people off by removing key features? What is the advantage of this?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- toufka 10y agoThe new charging mode is way cheaper for them, and for their users. And way more convenient too. I really like the magnetic part of MagSafe, but everything after that sucks. The wire the MagSafe uses is really susceptible to being frayed at both of its attachment points, and the power brick itself is expensive (>$100). It looks like the new power brick thing is similar to an iPhone's, and uses a detachable USB-C cable. I presume the cable and the bricks will become fairly commonplace. And that means way less work in the long run. I do like the magnetic grasp though.
- bronson 10y agoWhy Every New Macbook Needs A Different Goddamn Charger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyTA33HQZLA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyTA33HQZLA
- zaius 10y agoI personally haven't tried them, but there are USB-C magnetic cables, e.g. https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po...
- massysett 10y agoReplacing an expensive proprietary connector (that had widely available knockoffs that would explode at will) with a standard connector that will have $5 cables on Monoprice is a HUGE win. Plus, I can recharge it with an Anker battery off Amazon. I did like the Magsafe breakaway feature but there are enormous advantages to USB C.
- hyperbovine 10y agoNo more MagSafe? Count me out.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- otterley 10y agoFortunately, a third-party solution already exists: https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po...
- kennell 10y agoyay, more adapters. By the time you purchased all the adapters you need you have dropped another $100
- hyperbovine 10y agoTo say nothing of the fact that this "solution" is totally inferior to MagSafe. I really do not understand what Apple is thinking here... Steve is turning in his grave.
- otterley 10y agoHave you used it? Why do you think it is inferior? (Other than being unidirectional.)
- hyperbovine 10y ago1. One more little doo-dad to not lose. 2. It protrudes more than 1cm from the edge of the case, so we're right back to where we started in terms of things unintentionally dragging the laptop around. 3. MagSafe is patented by Apple, and not licensed to anybody. To get around the patent, other manufacturers had to make an inferior product. In particular, the polarity of the magnets in MagSafe is optimized to make the connection as strong as possible, and that's written right into the patent (https://www.google.com/patents/US7311526 https://www.google.com/patents/US7311526). The knockoffs are wimpier. 4. Dropping $2500 on a laptop and then having to spring for a $40 part than came from free with your $1700, last-generation laptop is just annoying.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- weinzierl 10y agoThe new MacBooks are here and one of them comes with function keys and ESC included. Yeah!
- weinzierl 10y agoThe new MacBooks are here and one of them comes with function keys and ESC included. Yeah!
- quicklyfrozen 10y agoWow, they're dropping the 15" model without dedicated GPU so no 15" under $2k. Dead silence when they announced pricing. :-)
- Longhanks 10y agoThe website isn't even updated yet...
- guessmyname 10y agoIt is now, if you bypass the cache with a random extra parameter in the URL [1]. [1] http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/?2016 http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/?2016
- robtaylor 10y agoIt is with UK prices http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro
- derekmcloughlin 10y agoAnd despite Sterling getting a hammering at the moment, the UK price of the fully-specced out MBP works out 500 Euro cheaper than the price from Ireland.
- ynniv 10y agoApple has replaced the MacBook Pro with a faster MacBook Air labeled "Pro". I have no idea how they could think that professionals would use a MacBook Air (no ports, shallow keyboard, no expansion, no innovative features, marginally lighter). A tiny ribbon display is completely useless to me. They removed the escape key. Twenty years of using Macs and I'm not sure what my next laptop is going to be.
- SEK3NLM 10y agoNo escape key? 2007 called and wants its "you can't do serious email on a phone without a phyciscal keyboard" line bad. Seriously. You didn't learn the lesson the iPhone taught the world a decade ago? Also you you obviously don't understand the difference in CPU and GPU capabilities between the Air and the Pro. So you're just ignorant of technology, aren't you?
- dasmoth 10y agoIt may not be the ports you want but 4x Thunderbolt/USB-C connectors is not exactly "no ports".
- ynniv 10y agoNo HDMI. No miniDP. No ethernet. No SDHC reader. No USB port that 100 out of 100 keyboards and mice will plug into. No audio input port. There are no^H^H only useless ports.
- dasmoth 10y agoDoes anyone else get the feeling that Apple are planning to kill desktops entirely? I went into this kind-of interested in the touch bar but thinking "how will they add it to external keyboards." Now, I don't think they ever will. The "pro workstation" sequence they showed during the live event is what they're aiming at: set your desk up so that the laptop us the keyboard and just add monitors (and perhaps external storage). And you know, perhaps they're right. But may take me a while to accept.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- kennell 10y agoThey can't kill it. Someone (we) has to continue making all those fancy, shinny, shitty little $1.99 apps.
- Lio 10y agoThis is how I've been working for a couple of years now. The ergonomics seem pretty good since the keyboard is narrow and central. You also aren't moving off axis to use the touch pad. If a (desktop) eGPU over thunderbolt 3 can deliver the performance it would probably be my preferred solution long term.
- sccxy 10y agoPro device with emojis. Did you hear about emojis? I guess they mentioned it five times in the keynote.
- FireBeyond 10y agoWell, you -know- the Surface Studio doesn't have an emoji keyboard.
- mastax 10y agoWell, actually: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tb6fWHelumA/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tb6fWHelumA/maxresdefault.jpg it's probably not bad on a touchscreen.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- 0x0 10y agoNo tactile escape key and no magsafe is a bit of a letdown, to say nothing of tactile function keys :(
- nodesocket 10y agoThe base model of the 13" with touch bar price increases from the current $1399 to $1799. That certainly surprised me and is substantial. Also, why would anybody buy an air now? It is worse in every possible category.
- munchor 10y agoI think the reason you'd buy an Air is for the regular good old keyboard (without Touch ID) for those of us that want a real Escape key.
- Randgalt 10y agoOnly 16GB!!!! No!!!!!! That stinks.
- jnsaff2 10y agoYeah, total bummer.
- bit_logic 10y agoSomething I wish Apple would do: Apple Executive: Engineering team, make the new MacBook Pro 20% lighter and thinner! Apple Engineering: OK! (Many months later) Apple Engineering: We're done! We had to make massive improvements in energy efficiency, thermal issues, etc. but we did it. Apple Executive: Now give all that 20% weight/width back to the battery. Pro users probably care more about battery life than weight/width at this point which are more than good enough.
- nkw 10y agoWow. I hate to say it, but I thought the products in Microsoft's event yesterday were way more exciting than anything from Apple lately. This plus macOS Sierra seems like a whole lot of "meh". This coming from a guy whose first computer was an Apple IIe, who owned a Mac Cube, and whose daily driver is a trashcan MacPro.
- usaphp 10y agoWhile I agree that Apple event was unimpressive today, I wonder what exactly was so "exciting" from the Microsoft? That $4200 desktop with an outdated unupgradable hardware and a touch screen for the OS which is know for being horrible at scaling things?
- josho 10y agoSadly I have to agree. I wonder if Jobs really was that much of a visionary that the company is lost for ways to innovate without him.
- gm-conspiracy 10y agoIt seems pretty obvious to me. At least they didn't release any 2nd gen Newtons.
- maxxxxx 10y agoI would love a new Newton :-)
- taytus 10y agoI believe he was. Besides being a great salesperson. Today's speakers were terrible.
- tedajax 10y agoI try not to buy too much into the Jobs hype because it falls into the same line of thinking that leads to the "Great Man" theory which I don't put much stock in. That said he did seem to have a way of understanding the whole ecosystem that Apple was trying to sell. In the post Jobs era the number of products and configurations available is getting pretty unruly and you now have an issue where you can't plug an iphone 7 out of the box into a new MBP without a dongle. That's pretty disjointed and strange. The TouchBar also seems to be misplaced on the MBP which every time I've had one for work is pretty much immediately folded up and put under a thunderbolt display (now requiring another dongle) and making the TouchBar worthless. So yeah I don't know if you need Jobs specifically but you certainly need someone looking over the entire product range and making sure it makes some amount of sense.
- npgatech 10y agoThis event was by far the most disappointing Mac event in the history. A lot of the time was wasted in: - Mildly funny jokes and comparison with 90's technology. - 90% of the talk was about the touch bar. - Awful demos of Photoshop & some cringy DJ. I was hoping we would see: - A new MacBook with all day battery life and touch bar, even thinner design. Ok, I understand that they are trying to consolidate their product line but the category of a web-browsing machine that is 12", super small design and an adequate processor is left without any update. - A MacBook pro with some real innovation. They could just copy Microsoft with a detachable screen (oh but they would cannibalize iPad market), pen input, touch screen. But, instead we get this touchbar thing which is great but I am just disappointed that it is the only thing they have innovated here. - Killed Macbook Air. - No iMac update (!!!). - No monitor announcement. Microsoft really hit it out of the park yesterday. Apple's entire presentation felt like they are trying to fill the 1.5 hours of time with bullshit. Also, Panos Panay sounds like a genuine, authentic, passionate and knowledgeable whereas Jony Ive sounds like an Evangelical designer who feels "fake". I don't know how to explain it.
- FireBeyond 10y ago16GB max. No iMac update. No Mac Pro update. Buyer's Guide on MacRumors now: "iMac: Might as well buy. Nothing on the horizon." "Mac Pro: Buy. If you like paying 2013 prices for 2013 hardware."
- yuhong 10y agoLooks like they still use LPDDR3, with no 32GB option even in the 15-inch. I wonder if they want to go to LPDDR4 when Intel supports it.
- op00to 10y agoWhat do you need 32GB for? Not saying you don't, but what's the use case vs. using someone else's cloud machine in a datacenter?
- 10y ago
- 0942v8653 10y agoFor some reason the old page is still showing up for me. The only new thing is this image from the homepage: http://images.apple.com/v/home/cy/images/gallery/macbookpro_large.jpg http://images.apple.com/v/home/cy/images/gallery/macbookpro_...
- Matachines 10y agoI was either happy/neutral about everything but the price... not sure what to do now. I'm just too used to macOS and don't feel like making the switch to Windows or Linux.
- Lio 10y agoI'm in the same boat. For the moment I think a thunderbolt 2 eGPU on my existing 2103 13" MacBook Pro might be enough for what I need. When it gets a bit older, I'm not sure what I'll do.
- Matachines 10y agoI think I'll bite the bullet and get the non-Touch Pro and a USB Hub.
- ant6n 10y agoIt's stupid to pay so much money and then be so inconvenienced.
- erikb 10y agoI like OSX and Linux and have both systems running on different computers. 90% of the time I am in a browser or in the terminal anyways. So it doesn't really matter which one I'm on. When I want to watch a movie, my Macbook is far superior (even better than my TV). If I want to configure my user interface Linux is far superior. And sometimes I need OSX since I need to interact with people who mostly use proprietary tools all day long at work from time to time and OSX has the better support for these tools.
- drinchev 10y agoWhat about upgradeability. I guess the fight is lost. I thought "Pro" stands for that. The reason that I will ( probably ) buy Apple MacBooks was narrowed to software compatibility. So sad.
- mieses 10y agoAre SSD and RAM user-upgradeable or soldered on?
- alva 10y ago$1200 upgrade cost for 2TB option. 16GB RAM maximum. edit: Jeez. For 15" with 1TB UK buyers will be paying £3,059.00
- codemac 10y agoThis + 6th gen Intel is disappointing. I used to buy macbooks to put linux on them. I'm happy with my switch to Lenovo (20g ram, 6th gen Intel, 512g nvme). Oh, and ports.
- pier25 10y ago- 6th gen processors - gimmigck touch bar - no USB-A ports - no SD card reader - no magsafe - super expensive for what you get
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- binarycrusader 10y agoI wonder what all the people complaining yesterday about Microsoft not using a 7th gen Intel processor instead of a 6th gen are going to say now... Ultimately, neither one of these product launches could line up their supply chain with Intel's newest processors and nVidia's newest mobile chips. They just weren't ready yet.
- gfodor 10y agographics card on their site for the 15 says its a "AMD Radeon R9 M370X with 2GB of GDDR5 memory", but I think this is the current mbp gfx card. slides said radeon pro 450. maybe placeholder text didn't get updated?
- verandaguy 10y agoI'm surprised (and a bit disappointed) by the lack of HDMI and DisplayPort/Thunderbolt ports. I'm even more surprised by the lack of a physical escape key. I'm concerned that it could break some applications (Vim, Emacs, all kinds of command-line stuff), even if <Esc> isn't as big a deal with Apple's non-developer user base. ... At least they kept the 3.5mm jack.
- nodesocket 10y agoMap "esc" to caps lock should work.
- verandaguy 10y agoThat's not necessarily comfortable for everyone, and in any case, Caps may already be mapped to something else. (Personally, I've got vim-arpeggio and my Normal Mode key sequence is simultaneously mashing <jk>). My point is, it shouldn't be necessary. Most people don't remap keys if they're using editors on a server because many people might use those, so setting up a personal configuration could be counterproductive and interfere with other users. If the soft <Esc> key conflicts with the editors in any way, this could cause a lot of annoyance.
- nkw 10y agoBut that is where my control key goes!
- djhworld 10y agoI have Ctrl mapped to my caps lock key :(
- bobwaycott 10y agoI have both mapped to caps lock. Single press is esc. Hold with another key is ctrl. I do a similar thing with my shift keys. Single press of left/right shift places the appropriate parentheses. Holding acts like shift.
- heyiamlukas 10y agoMacbook Pro. The Pro stands for Emoji.
- alva 10y agoThe Pro now stands for Prolapse
- untog 10y agoI know USB-C is the future, but it's going to be a long, long, long time before all our devices are using it - particularly external displays. My current Macbook Pro has an HDMI port. I use it every day. I do not want to carry a converter dongle with me everywhere (I did that with my old Air that only had a DisplayPort). To echo other complaints: this is supposed to be a professional machine. I don't care about it being several mm thinner, especially when it comes at the cost of useful ports and a great keyboard. Give me a device that I can use, day in day out. Don't take away the damn escape key to trial out a new "touch bar" that inputs emojis, and don't bump the price up by this much when you know I'm going to have to go out and buy a host of $20 dongles when I buy the thing.
- philip1209 10y agoYeah, I would consider retiring my Air for one of the new Pros, but I'll have to spend ~$300 replacing power cords (home, office, backpack), monitor adapters (backpack, around office, at home), while still having to keep the old chargers and adapters due to my old work computer. That dissuades me. At the office - this now means that the conference room adapters, power cords, etc will have to be swapped out as soon as a new employee starts.
- javajosh 10y agoYes, I've never once thought about my MPBr "This beast, it's just too thick!" Honestly the only improvements I would like are the following: 1. Stop making new power connector standards. 2. Stop making power adapters that fray after a year. 3. Increase battery life. 4. *Add* at least one standard USB port. 5. Decrease display bezel. 6. Increase RAM and HDD to 32G and 10TB.
- stephenr 10y ago1. They have, new Apple laptops are now using USB-C. 2. They have, new Apple laptops now use a USB-C charger that has a separate cable, rather than a fixed attachment point. 3. The 15" has increased by an hour. 4. USB-C is a standard, and is backwards compatible via cheap adapters/cables. USB-A ports are not forwards compatible, and cannot be used for charging, thunderbolt, display port, etc. 5. They have. Both 13" and 15" are smaller externally with the same screen size. 6. RAM, I agree with. My 2011 17" MBP has 16GB RAM so I don't know why they aren't up to 32GB yet, at least in the 15". I doubt 10TB is feasible as SSD in a portable device this size.
- banhfun 10y agoThey actually removed the USB ports and function keys, the absolute madmen!
- mherrmann 10y agoThe touch bar is going to be really useful for a file manager I'm developing [1]. Traditionally, such file managers use function keys for common tasks (eg. copy with F5). On Mac, you have to press Fn to get the function keys, which is very inconvenient. Now my users can use the traditional key bindings _and_ remember them more easily! [1]: https://fman.io https://fman.io
- EpicEng 10y agoNice plug. Why wouldn't people be able to remap the keys as they like? Using the function keys for common shortcuts seems wrong.
- mherrmann 10y agoPeople are able to remap the keys [1]. It's just that fman is a dual pane file manager and in that niche it's been the convention for 20 years to use the function keys. I also use them on Mac, but I have configured OS X to not require me to press Fn. 1: https://fman.io/docs/customizing-fman https://fman.io/docs/customizing-fman
- whywhywhywhy 10y ago> Traditionally, such file managers use function keys for common tasks (eg. copy with F5) On Mac, you have to press Fn to get the function keys, which is very inconvenient or just press cmd+c, easier than reaching to the touch bar.
- valine 10y agoBeing able to charge from any of the four ports is legitimately cool. I also will be happy not buying an $80 power brick every time my cable frays. The touch bar will provide some significant user experience and workflow improvements. Overall I'd say it's a solid upgrade.
- Lio 10y agoIf you don't mind me asking, how do you think you'll make use of power to the 4 sockets? Is it just for the convenience of swapping sides or is there another use case I'm missing?
- valine 10y agoI was just thinking about the continence of swapping sides. Unless it's possible to charge from all four ports at once. 4x charging would be cool ;).
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- trurl 10y agoStill no 32GB option. I guess Pros just don't need that kind of memory?
- dev1n 10y agoAnd you know macOS is gonna suck up half of that at the very least.
- taivokasper 10y agoWhat!? Only half? I would expect it to make better use of the free RAM and use all of it for caching!
- bfrog 10y agoHow many apps will really support this for the one or two generations that actually have it?
- adrianlmm 10y agoThe new touch bar looks pretty useless and unconfortable to use, a missed oportunity if you ask me.
- hartator 10y agoI think I am a bit disappointed by the Touch Bar. I can see it being more annoying than useful. They could have set themselves apart by doing something grandiose like having small oled screens for each key that are changing dynamically according to apps and keyboards. But, I guess this time of true risks are gone.
- frankchn 10y agoI can see it going both ways. Some power users will completely customize the touch bar, while others will just be annoyed at it.
- mo1ok 10y agoDual core i5? What year is it, 2004?
- subie 10y agoI'm still using a 2008 Macbook for most of my development. You'd be surprised how much OSX can do with little resources. That being said I wouldn't buy a new laptop without a quad core.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- sakisv 10y agoSometimes I really cannot understand the guys at apple: - No regular USB ports - No HDMI port - No F keys - No option for more than 16GB RAM - No mag-safe - More expensive Why not bump the specs, allow for more RAM, and just add an extra USB-C to start the adoption slowly?
- yoz-y 10y agoApple was never much into slow adoption.
- sakisv 10y agoTrue, but on the laptops they did it on already declining technologies, like removing the CD/DVD drive. I don't think that USB is dying any time soon, no matter how great USB-C is. I'm actually kinda surprised that they didn't remove the headphone jack. That would actually be a really effective way to push the adoption of USB-C :)
- oldmanjay 10y agoThe removal of optical drives was accompanied by all this same hand-wringing and prognostication of doom, but if there's one thing I've learned over the last 20+ years, it's that nerds on nerd forums have no idea what people want and no ability to stop themselves from asserting they do.
- masklinn 10y agoSo was the absence of floppies in the original iMac. USB keys weren't exactly a common thing back in 1997.
- TillE 10y agoNobody except five Apple dorks in the world gives a damn about advising companies about how best to exploit their markets. We all just want a product that suits our needs. No USB-A ports (and no Ethernet) really sucks for a lot of people. Apple will continue to be a profitable company. These things are not contradictory.
- israrkhan 10y agono physical escape key.. I suspect this will negatively impact vi/vim experience.
- steveeq1 10y agoOne can always type Ctrl-C or Ctrl-] . Also, remapping ESC to CapsLock is also possible and even preferable to some people.
- coredog64 10y agoI guess we know where Apple comes down in the vi vs. emacs war.
- minitech 10y agoThey make sure to irritate everyone equally by having Control to the right of Fn.
- jkaunisv1 10y agoKilling the escape key seems weird to me too, but do regular vi users actually rely on the real escape key? It's way too far from home row and sees too much usage for me to not remap something closer like Capslock.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- msie 10y agoDoes it have user-serviceable memory? I doubt it.
- eugeneionesco 10y agoOf course not.
- msie 10y agoReally? -4 points? Valid question since I have a Macbook Pro from 2012 which does have user-serviceable memory. "Pro" should count for something.
- mixmastamyk 10y agohttp://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/10/apple-quietly-kills-non-retina-macbook-pro-it-sold-for-four-years/ http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/10/apple-quietly-kills-non...
- ilyanep 10y agoStill can't go above 16GB RAM. As someone who is frequently running a lot of servers on my development machine (but still values portability), this is pretty disappointing.
- nodesocket 10y agoI agree, 32GB RAM should be an option.
- chiph 10y ago"Emoji Bar" Seriously, who did Apple talk to (besides their navels) in designing this? No more dongles, Apple. Not on a pro-level device.
- rl3 10y agoThere's a 13" MBP model that lacks Touch Bar, featuring normal function keys. Apple is using last year's Skylake processors (6th-generation), not Kaby Lake (7th-generation), even though some OEMs are starting to ship hardware with Kaby Lake right now. >Retina display >15.4-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit display with IPS technology; 2880-by-1800 native resolution at 220 pixels per inch with support for millions of colors No 4K display on the 15" models. The GPU configurations are as follows based on the order page: Intel Iris Graphics 540 (13" sans Touch Bar) Intel Iris Graphics 550 (13" with Touch Bar) Radeon Pro 450 with 2GB memory (15") Radeon Pro 455 with 2GB memory (15" top-end) Radeon Pro 460 with 4GB memory (both 15" models, optional) As a WebGL developer, I'm really happy to see the Intel HD Graphics 4600 chipset die. It's basically been the performance target for consumer-oriented web applications for years now. Unfortunately, that target will still linger until older models finally reach obsolescence.
- Matachines 10y agoThe only problem with the non-Touch Pro is the lack of ports :/ Otherwise I'd get one right now.
- audessuscest 10y agowtf Euro prices are 200€ higher than dollars price ?! $1,499.00 -> 1 699,00 € for the first model
- audessuscest 10y agoeven upgrade options are more expensive in Euro
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- cygned 10y agoI have just spent ~2.8k EUR on a 13". Feels a little weird.
- kgwgk 10y agoTaxes are one of the reasons.
- audessuscest 10y agoIt used to be equal so I don't think that's the reason and more than 200€ (since $ < €) just for taxes is a lot.
- kgwgk 10y agoIn France, for example, it costs 1415 eur (i.e. 1543 usd) plus taxes.
- ROFISH 10y ago16GB RAM max, DP1.2 (so no 5k display support), worthless Touch Bar when I use my current MBP dual monitor with the lid closed. Pass. Sadly I really wanted something better since I'm on an old 2012 MBP that badly needs an upgrade but I'm not dropping $1500+ for something that doesn't support 32GB and 5k displays.
- davesque 10y agoI'm a bit confused. I thought the event showcased a setup with two 5k displays attached to one 15" macbook pro.
- hrrsn 10y agoThey did.
- andrewbarba 10y agoMy guess is those are Thunderbolt-connected displays
- pat2man 10y agoAccording to the spec: One 4K display (4096 x 2160) 30-bit @ 120 Hz One 5K display (5120 x 2880) 30-bit @ 60 Hz Two 4K displays each (4096 x 2160) 30-bit @ 60 Hz
- drinchev 10y agoCorrect, but why would you use 3 screens when you can use just 2? And anyway I use external keyboard with numeric keys and a magic mouse instead of the trackpad. So why should I keep my Mac open anyway?
- masklinn 10y ago> Correct, but why would you use 3 screens when you can use just 2. If you can use two 5k displays at the same time, you can probably use just one...
- Xylakant 10y ago
- simonsarris 10y agoInterestingly they removed the pricing from their landing page, this morning the Macbook pro prices (for the old gen) were pretty prominent at the top of the page, above the fold and above any images of the computer. The 13 inch now starts at $1,499 (but no touch bar at all unless you spend at least $1,799), up from $1,299. The 15 inch now starts at $2,399, up from $1,999. If you want to compare the copy, you can see the old version cached here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:z7BWPC9E778J:www.apple.com/macbook-pro/+&cd=20&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:z7BWPC9...
- qz_ 10y agoWho the hell are they marketing this to?
- Etheryte 10y agoThe same question struck me. Because it's obviously not meant for the previous pro audience.
- IMcD23 10y agoFYI - The Google cache has been updated. Archive.org has a better archived copy: http://web.archive.org/web/20161027182455/http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/ http://web.archive.org/web/20161027182455/http://www.apple.c...
- stillhaveadream 10y agoWhat a waste of my time, was really expecting something better than this.
- stillhaveadream 10y agoReally a waste of my time.
- douche 10y agoWhy is it being thinner such a draw? This is bordering on too thin for me to comfortably grip. I'll stick with the EliteBook I just bought for 10% of this price, and damn-near every port ever made. It doesn't really bother me that it's about 3" thick and doesn't have an emoji bar.
- ucha 10y agoInteresting fact: the 13" macbook without the touch bar has a 10% larger battery; however they don't describe it as having a 10% better battery life: they're both rated at 10 hours.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 10y agoI noticed this in technical specs on their site. Odd.
- wmeddie 10y agoMore capacity and with one less display to drive. It should definitely last significantly longer.
- dtnewman 10y agoThe loss of the escape key is something I find annoying, even if it can be remapped[1] to caps lock (which i never use). [1] https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/25/remap-escape-key-action-macbook-pro-macos-sierra-10-12-1-modifier-keys/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/25/remap-escape-key-action-macbo...
- ChicagoDave 10y agoTouchBar. Dead on arrival. This is a cute feature, but kind of embarrassing from an innovation perspective. And given the announcement of the Surface Book update and the new Surface Studio, Apple is inconceivably playing second fiddle to Microsoft on the innovation front. The leap ahead on ports is premature at best. I'm sure Apple will hold most of their fan base, but there are going to be quite a few defections me thinks.
- steejk 10y agoAgreed. To me all the demos of the touch bar looked awkward and could've been replaced with far better functionality using a touchscreen. Hopefully it's more appealing when actually using it.
- drawkbox 10y agoI just don't get the appeal of having to look at your keyboard instead of the beautiful screen. The Microsoft approach with the dial on the screen at least is on the screen. Why do I want to keep looking down to be sure the TouchBar has the keys I expect? I'll take a look at them and see, but it seems like something that will be used very little and almost annoying. The locked 16GB memory is a deal breaker for developers, can't even run OSX and Bootcamp for Windows 10 on it. 8GB per VM is not enough and really we need 32GB/64GB to have 16GB/32GB each. Same with their current iMacs, next update better have 64GB+ options or they are making themselves irrelevant to developers and designers without having to spend $6k on an Mac Pro.
- 10y ago
- ComputerGuru 10y agoSo, really, new touchbar aside, the MBP doesn't really bring much to the table at all, does it? It's a device for pros... who already have the keyboard shortcuts for the same actions the touchbar provides long since memorized. I thought this was supposed to be a MacBookPro event - but it seems like it should be called the Apple touchbar event, really. I personally found the suggestion that taking my fingers away from my keyboard to tap on the touchbar for autocomplete suggestions would let me "type faster" to be beyond ridiculous and even borderline insulting. Obviously Apple couldn't say - in a room full of developers - "When is the last time you used a function key?," and instead had to go with an awkward joke about no one using IBM mainframes any more... And power users sharing MacBooks? That automatic profile switching belongs on the new iMac, which is actually a PC meant to be shared with family... oh wait, there is no new iMac, is there? Craig also deftly avoided mention of the fact that as soon as you let go of the function key, the F1-12 buttons disappear once more - at a time when laptop developers have given up on forcing the alternate Fn behavior over the standard F1-12 buttons by default. I'm also concerned Apple won't give a damn about making the UI of applications accessible and intuitive and simply assume everyone wants to use the touchbar instead. It seems they've given up on innovating when it comes to desktops and workstations and have decided to simply shoehorn any mobile innovations they have into their notebooks rather than come up with something -actually- useful. I posted this part yesterday, and I'll post it again: I just gave up on Apple ever shipping you are MacBooks and received my custom order HP two days before they announced the October 27th event. My (magnesium unibody) ZBook is as slim as my retina MBP, has a higher-PPI display, also comes with a glass trackpad, has user-replaceable battery, 2x M.2 PCIe SSDs, and upgradeable ram. I was able to pay a bit extra and get it with a mobile Xeon CPU (E3-1545m with Intel's top-of-the-line Iris Pro 580 integrated GPU) which is the equivalent of the i7 6920HQ only with more cache and better graphics, meaning I was able to buy 32 GB of ECC RAM for only $130. It has a 4GB nVidia Quadro and still manages to weigh less than my rMBP. The only thing that sucks is the noise. It's fairly quiet even with the fan running at its highest RPM, but the frequency of the resulting noise is very distinguishable and it has a tendency to rev up and down quite suddenly (and often). It doesn't help that there are two fans, one on each side, which turn on and off independently - meaning you can suddenly feel like you've lost hearing in one of your ears until you realize the noise level is imbalanced. I don't know if Apple will introduce Xeon workstations (update: they didn't. The crowd clapped at "6th generation Intel" because they didn't realize it meant two year old tech), but even if they did, I'm not sure I'm ready to give up my three USB 3.1 (non-C), three thunderbolt 3 (/USB-C), hdmi, gigabit ethernet, 3.5mm audio/mic, and power ports along with my function keys, home/end/page up/page down buttons, Kensington lock slot, and a proper typing keyboard that celebrates instead of denounces key travel in exchange for a more-pleasant acoustic profile. While I might be willing to give up the ECC memory I use with my Xeon 1545m for the standard DDR4 Apple's new maxed-out MBP configured with an i7 6920HQ supports (which is otherwise more-or-less identical to the Xeon 1545m, except with less cache), I'm definitely, over-my-dead-body not willing to trade my 32GB of RAM for the paltry 16GB the new MBP offers [0]. Did I mention I've been a faithful Mac user for over a decade? 0: https://neosmart.net/blog/2016/apples-best-newest-macbook-pro-still-has-only-16gb-of-ram/ https://neosmart.net/blog/2016/apples-best-newest-macbook-pr...
- Matachines 10y agoA sorta-maxed out non-Touch 13" Pro looks perfect except the lack of ports :/
- 40acres 10y agoI was very intruged by the Dell XPS 13/15, especially since they come in a developer edition which runs Ubuntu. I've been holding off on a purchase because I wanted to see what Apple would come up with, Dell looks pretty strong today.
- kilroy123 10y agoI bought one a few years ago. Worst laptop I've ever bought! The keyboard was broken right out of the box. They replace it, reluctantly. I always had problems with the touchpad after that. The CPU fan went out after a year. Then I had lots of trouble with replacements after that. Ugh. Much happier with my Macbook Pro.
- ianai 10y agoNo hardware problems on my XPS 13. But the trackpad, however, has never worked properly with Windows 10. They seriously dropped the ball on the trackpad. I don't understand how that's possible on a laptop.
- TheRealDunkirk 10y agoOther than the hardware failure, what's the situation with Ubuntu handling things like external displays and suspending?
- kgabis 10y agoI have a 2016 XPS 15 and it's nowhere near a mbp when it comes to build quality. Keyboard and touchpad are much worse than on my 2010 mbp 13, palm rests are made of grease-absorbing plastic, fans can get VERY loud and it's impossible to open it with one hand. It just sits in my drawer nowadays.
- 40acres 10y agoYikes, yeah I've heard the build quality is not up to par. Even the base MBP (no touch bar) is a tough pill to swallow.
- optionalparens 10y agoLooking at the various missing keys and the touch strip, I couldn't help but laugh and cry. Less is more, right? I think we all know this is aimed at casual users, but it's still fun to poke at it. The first thing that came to mind is any time now that I walk into a coffee shop, if I see someone passing themselves off as a programmer on a new Macbook, I'll know they are just screwing around or otherwise extremely angry (and should not approach). I guess carrying around your own keyboard is going to be more of a thing for people who like to work outside the home/office. As an Emacs user and someone who spent at least some time in Vim and Vi over the years, wow, I can't imagine the inner rage of some people I know if they tried to use this. The other thing I thought of is hasn't this quite often been a problem for other people who tried similar approaches? For example, we tried the UI with not looking at the main screen with things like the WiiU, did we not? Obviously gaming is different than productivity, but still, the screen is the primary focus. Could we also not just throw dynamic UI like this on in other ways? A few I've seen/heard of or could be a future tech: * Remapping an icon or otherwise minimal custom glyphs/text per key. * Remote style. Ex: Second display like they had with Vista or other things, but via iPhone or other devices - put it next to you, in front, whatever, boom - extra contextual touch screen. Apple even does this for many apps like Logic Pro X. * Perfecting tactile response better and using a full dynamic keyboard like on some laptops out there right now (but with more mechanical response). Obviously easier said than done. The problem with all this is I wonder who is looking down so much or wanting to look down. If you have time to look down, is it really such a problem then to use the OS UI to get the same thing done? Probably the only time most people I know that can actually type decently tend to look down at a keyboard is to orient themselves again in some way. I know sometimes when I switch languages/locales on my machine to type in some other languages, it takes me a second depending on the language. But this tech doesn't help at all with that except giving me a button to flip, that is already a keyboard chord anyway.
- sundvor 10y agoI'm fully with you. Programmers NEED physical function keys, and at the very least the escape key. Anything that requires you to look down is just a joke. Lenovo quickly learned their lesson with their (imho, as a touch typer, brilliant) X1 Carbon, when they went fancy with the function row in Gen2. Suffice to say, the near perfect keyboard layout of Gen1 was back in Gen3.
- msh 10y agoSeems like the mac mini is dead. I rather liked that one :(
- brandon272 10y agoThe most exciting and practical product of the announcement was squeezed in at the end, the oddly named MacBook Pro replacement for the Macbook Air. And when I say exciting I am speaking relatively. There was no mention of battery life, which is hugely important to me as a notebook user and which I guess I will have to find out from the Apple website once it refreshes. I just found the whole thing to be kind of weird and underwhelming. Maybe the TouchBar is mind blowing in person. We'll see.
- cstross 10y agoBattery life was mentioned: "up to 10 hours" (all machines).
- silverwind 10y agoThe non-touchbar version will probably last longer because in addition to having one less draining device, its battery apparently also has around 10% more watt-hours.
- rnernento 10y agoI see a headphone jack, that seems downright cowardly.
- overgard 10y agoRemoving the escape key was courageous though.
- sprite 10y agoSeriously, no 32gb ram option?
- elcct 10y ago13 inch only 8GB? Wat...
- thoughtsimple 10y agoupgradeable to 16 GB
- elcct 10y agoah, true you can upgrade at checkout
- sbuttgereit 10y agoAn aside, but I just watched the "design video" on the Apple site. Does Apple and Microsoft use the video production team? The exploded device views and the exploding color dust bombs made it seem like the Apple video and the Microsoft Surface Studio video were made by the same people at the same time. Very much the same look and feel.
- fivesigma 10y agoRe: the wide gamut display I really really hope there's proper sRGB emulation for those of us who want to make content for the 99.99% of users out there. Edit: not every app is color managed
- bdcravens 10y agoI'm sure it's a great machine, but disappointed that it's still capped at 16GB (since there have been lightweight machines like the XPS15 that support 32 for a bit)
- leitasat 10y agoNo USB-C port? That's I call consistency!
- morinted 10y agoAll four ports are Thunderbolt 3, which is USB C compatible, plus some extra features.
- collias 10y agoIt looks like I'll be waiting for the 2nd gen of this. Gen 2 wishlist: - Something more than 16GB RAM - Nvidia GPU (always had issues with ATI) - Cheaper option with no Touch Bar - MagSafe power
- Kequc 10y agoThere is a no touch bar option currently. I think you'll get your first two wishes along with a vastly superior CPU if you wait for second generation.
- yedpodtrzitko 10y agoTwo ports only is a joke.
- grzm 10y agoWhich ports do you currently use? On my MacBook Air (13-inch, Early 2015), I use the MagSafe and either a USB port for charging/syncing a phone or the ThunderBolt display. If I'm plugged into a display, I'm using USB ports on the display for charging. If I were using additional peripherals, I think I'd most likely be using those when I'm also connected to a display, so I can use the ports on the display for those as well. That said, for the target market, I don't think it's unreasonable to think they likely need only two ports the vast majority of the time. I'm not saying you don't have a use for more than two ports. Just that "two ports only is a joke" sounds quite dismissive without any additional details.
- rangibaby 10y agoTwo ports is not ideal on my current laptop. Normally use one for charging phones, the other for an external HDD. Plugging something else in (USB stick) usually means not being able to connect to my external or making my wife mad because she was charging her phone.
- yedpodtrzitko 10y agoYou're right, I'll be more verbose. I was looking forward to this event as I was considering getting a new machine. However the new machines are full of compromises I would need to do (usual things I hear a lot are "oh you can remap Escape, you can buy a dongle, you dont need that much ports etc.") I am a touch-typist (and I use the F keys), so the machine with Touchbar is no-go for me. What's left? The non-touchbar machine, with two ports. I will omit the thing I would need a bunch of adapters from USB-C to anything. If I look on my current setup right now, that would be a charger (1st port), a monitor (2nd port), a mouse (3rd), a mobile device for development (4th). Ocasinally I use an external disk too (5th). So if I am doing the math correctly, I am missing 2-3 ports. I guess that would mean some extra adapters to be able to connect all of this. All of them on one side of the laptop (including headphones). That's just mess.
- guessmyname 10y agoIs the Touch ID sensor the new power button? When I buy it, how am I supposed to power it up? I feel stupid and old just for asking this question :-(
- josho 10y agoDidn't notice, but I like your hypothesis as it makes for a smart design. That you can't even power on the hardware unless your fingerprint matches--saves me from setting a firmware password that I may forget since I never go into the firmware. Ironically this is the only thing that impressed me from the announcement, yet it wasn't discussed.
- htp 10y agoIs the Touch ID sensor the new power button? Yep.
- out_of_protocol 10y ago* two colors, yay! * model with physical keys is shit (2x less USB-C, way worser CPU etc) * no physical keys for 15" * http://i.imgur.com/1Y0Elul.png http://i.imgur.com/1Y0Elul.png :) * jack 3.5 in all models - not brave enough
- josho 10y agoIt's strange that they killed all the port options, but choose to keep the one port that was removed from the iPhone (the headphone jack). I appreciate that Apple kills off older tech to push the market forward. But, Thunderbolt, USB3, SD cards, nor HDMI strike me as legacy plugs needing a swift transition. I've yet to encounter a USB-C plug in the wild, so this port killing is a misstep.
- pbhowmic 10y agoMy single biggest fear was that they would end the MagSafe and that has come to pass. 3 kids, 3 cats, 2 dogs, the MagSafe has saved my existing MacBook Pro so many times.
- walterbell 10y agoCould someone make a MagSafe-to-USB-C adapter?
- yaegers 10y agoSomeone already does. ZapTip etc. But how often have we heard about issues? Short Circuits and even fires and it ended up being a non Apple Third Party acessory that was faulty and caused the issues? Is it really that much to ask if one wants to use only official apple tech? One dedicated magsafe and this would have been a non issue. It can't have made the macbook thicker seeing as how small the magsafe is. They could have even mentioned in the keynote "and if you don't want to use the magsafe, charge your macbook from any of the usb-c devices" And simply put both charging options in the store so people could get a non magsafe usb-c is they wanted.
- nicky0 10y agohttps://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-po...
- brokencode 10y agoThere are magnetic connectors for USB C. Slight added expense, but at least Apple is using a standard connector
- imron 10y agoI can't believe they killed the MagSafe. This was an amazing innovation that has saved various laptops of mine over the years.
- justanton 10y agoApple is being run more and more by marketers, rather than by techies. As a developer, I don't want to see "emojis" on my keyboard, but I do want to be able to plug in any device I need in that exact moment, without looking for a right dongle. Apple needs to stop sacrificing usability for "looks".
- vermooten 10y ago> Apple is being run more and more by marketers, rather than by techies. Yes. Today's the day that Apple became irrelevant.
- 123jay7 10y agoHahaha. Said after the launch of every single Apple product post Apple II.
- josho 10y agoAgreed. The venn diagram of people that can afford the pro and those that care about emojis is likely rather slim. However, watching the photoshop demo I could see the value. Honestly though, I think an add on accessory the size of a trackpad would be better. Unfortunately, that would sell in numbers so small that software support would be non-existent. So, this is a compromise solution that doesn't have Apple's usual boldness to it, rather a lacklustre add on that will deliver lacklustre results (to both sales and usefulness).
- jakebasile 10y agoI don't know, I see emoji infiltrating my tools more and more. For example, I had to submit a PR to Yarn [1] to add a flag to disable the terrible things. GitHub uses emoji to indicate the type of commit [2]. I hate it. Edit: I mean GitHub the company, not the product. Atom is maintained by GitHub. [1]: https://github.com/yarnpkg/yarn/pull/922 https://github.com/yarnpkg/yarn/pull/922 [2]: https://github.com/atom/atom/commits/master https://github.com/atom/atom/commits/master
- dmritard96 10y agoAnybody know what software is used for the design renders/exploded views? Keyshot, Maya, Blender, something else?
- valine 10y agoI'd be more interested in which render engine was used. The animation portion could be easily be done in any of the software you memetioned. My guess would renderman due to apples relationship with Pixar, but that's complete speculation.
- omnimus 10y agoIts unlikely pixar is involved. It can be realy anything. But it has nice realistic atmosphere at times. Looks very unbiased. I would guess Arnold because unbiased would take too much time and Arnold just has that real vibe without being too slow.
- elcct 10y agoWith W10 having usable Ubuntu built in I can hardly see a use case for having a mac.
- slg 10y agoI find the back to back introduction of the Surface Dial and the Touch Bar to be interesting. These two input devices are going to rely on developer commitments for any real level of success, but why should developers spend time on them when they will only be available on a relatively small percentage of devices? If these were web browsers we would all be complaining about standards, but there seems to be little blow back because they are OS level devices. Meanwhile this would seem to be a big headache for developers of cross platform software.
- ohstopitu 10y agomy bets are, major devs (corps like Adobe) are going to integrate with the surface dial, a few more devs are going to integrate with the touchbar (and that will probably increase over time) but in my opinion, both are going to be relatively niche devices for the next few years (one more so, than the other)
- vermooten 10y agomeh I'm sad that i waited this long only to be disappointed. It was a COO's view of being innovative.
- j79 10y agoGiven the opening of the Keynote and the focus around accessibility, I'm really curious how Touch Bar will work for non-sighted users. Will it require running your finger over the controls while VoiceOver relays the context of the button? Or, will the Touch Bar require "focusing" where a user swipes through the buttons, similar to iOS? Personally, I don't need application aware function keys (sure, emojis are cool in messages...) and would love an option for the 15" MBP to have physical keys, similar to the 13" option...
- agentgt 10y ago"We took that track pad that your palms occasional rub against and accidentally move your cursor.... yeah we took that and made it extra big so your wrists will now participate in cursor screw ups"... think different.
- bluthru 10y agoObviously software ignores those touches.
- ncallaway 10y agoSometimes! My current MBP misclicks occasionally when I'm typing. Even though the software is probably quite good and preventing 99% of the misclicks, the 1% of the time it occurs still ends up being a couple of times per session. It's frustrating and annoying. Unless they have significantly improved their software, this is a net-negative change for me.
- brentm 10y agoI hate to take away from the complaining in here but I actually think it looks pretty nice. I was pleasantly surprised with the interactions they demonstrated with the new ribbon display. I knew they were going to announce it and didn't think I'd care but I will walk away from the video with the feeling that I want one.
- alejandromaka 10y agocongratulations on being the only positive comment in here. thank you.
- Spooks 10y agoprobably a valid reason for all that negativity...
- cooper12 10y agoNot really, all I see is stuff like: "they removed the escape key" (except its still there, even if it isn't a physical key), "no one looks at the keyboard" (touch typists aren't the target demographic), "only 8GB ram?!" (again, HN is not their target demographic), complaining about the removal of ports (not a surprise at all, and Apple is moving the industry towards USB C), and the expected "Apple stopped innovating after Jobs!" comments on every Apple event thread. Personally I found the Touch Bar to be cool in exposing common actions in a touch-friendly manner.
- Retra 10y agoWho is their target demographic?
- cooper12 10y agoI can tell you it's not programmers who need the latest CPUs, 32GB RAM, mechanical keyboards, and every gizmo possible in their laptops. It's definitely a more casual professional user. (For anyone who truly needs that kind of power, they have the Mac Pro)
- davesque 10y agoMan...this just feels like such an epic letdown. All the new "killer" features just seem like gimmicks. I could care less if there's a touch strip (that I have to look at to use) on my keyboard. I also don't give a shit if I can scan my fingerprint instead of just typing my password to login. The hardware is also just not cutting edge (the price is though). Such a huge disappointment. It seems pretty clear that Apple just doesn't care about their desktop/laptop business anymore. And all this after months of waiting to purchase a new laptop since Apple delayed their normal product schedule.
- josho 10y agoMy last 3 MacBook Pros were purchased just before Apple did a major redesign. This time around I don't have the usual pang of desire for the new model. Maybe taking one of msfts new models for a spin might be opportune for you.
- overcast 10y agoUgh. I don't know what to do here. I've been waiting for Mac updates for ages, and this is what we get. My 2008 Mac Pro is maxed out on upgrades, and has been on the fritz lately. I can't go forever on an 8+ year old machine. Especially one that is no longer "officially supported" by Apple, and now requires 3rd party patches to install Sierra and its updates. Microsoft's Surface presentation yesterday was VERY tempting.
- pdxandi 10y agoFWIW, I love my (last-gen) MBP. i7, 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. Maybe you can get one for less now?
- overcast 10y agoIt's really not a matter of money. It's getting something at least comparable to eight year old hardware. I don't need 8 cores, but more RAM, and disk space should be realistic eight years later.
- Spooks 10y agoyeah, 256GB is much too small for a premium laptop, I understand they are trying to push their cloud storage, but programs and files are getting bigger and bigger these days and storage is pretty cheap.
- justanton 10y agoHuge respect for you for keeping your MacBook for so long. I personally tired of stuff that "breaks" or becomes "obsolete" in a year or so. Our environment is doomed if we continue to have lifestyles like this: buying new shit in a year.
- overcast 10y ago2008 Mac Pro tower! Only reason I'm considering MacBOOK Pro, is because the Mac Pro desktop has been just forgotten.
- hartator 10y agoI think it's also interesting to note that for the first time Apple is lagging behind in term of CPU generation when introducing redesigned MacBooks. The new MacBook Pro are said to be using 6th generation of Intel CPU (Skylake) when you have already on the market the 7th generation on Intel CPU (Kaby Lake). You are even competitive laptops using them already: http://www.gsmarena.com/new_dell_xps_13_laptop_comes_in_rose_gold_finish_launching_next_month-blog-20520.php http://www.gsmarena.com/new_dell_xps_13_laptop_comes_in_rose... As a web developer, I think something like this laptop with Windows 10 is becoming more and more interesting. With Ubuntu native integration in Windows, you can even run the Ubuntu versions of the full stack including Node.js, Mongodb and Rails. 100% matching your deployment environment.
- zeusly 10y agoas I understand it, the MBP line uses the 45W CPUs and I think they aren't out yet
- mamon 10y agoSo what? Apple could do the same thing Dell did: release 13 inch version with Kaby Lake today, and postpone 15 inch till December. I personally can't wait until xps 15 with 7th gen Intel and NVidia Pascal debiuts
- vladimir-y 10y agoIn my opinion recently updated HP Spectre x360 (comes with Kaby Lake, like updated XPS 13) is a better MacBook competitor than Dell XPS 13.
- smnplk 10y agoyupp, the new dell xps looks like a legit macbook killer.
- nyxtom 10y agoBash for Windows needs to hurry up and fix/implement the networking stack already so I can actually make a decent switch. That being said, once they fix all that crap then it will be an easy switch.
- ryanmarsh 10y agoThe 15" is capped at 16GB RAM???
- smnplk 10y agoI think my next ultrabook is going to be the new Dell xps 13(Kaby Lake) or Razer Blade Stealth. Probably not mac anymore.
- stock_toaster 10y agoI want to like the xps 13 too, but the non touch model (I want the matte screen of the non touch model) has a max config of 8gb board soldered ram. :(
- gregwebs 10y agoI definitely need matte. Dell sells other laptop models with Linux pre-installed, some with larger RAM Configurations: http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-laptop http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-lapt...
- stock_toaster 10y agohmm! Nice find. That Precision 15 5000 Series looks like it has fhd antiglare screen too, and can be configured with up to 32gb ram. A bit pricey but might be worth it.
- smnplk 10y agoI didn't know the ram was soldered. I was looking at the same model in hopes of upgrading ram myself.
- inputcoffee 10y agoEveryone seems disappointed but I think the reason is this: There isn't that much to innovate on the laptop. If you want real innovation, you need new form factors: voice recognition, VR, intelligent devices and so on. The laptop is excellent at what it does and the only thing you can really do is make it faster and lighter.
- lostgame 10y agoEveryone's disappointed because we don't WANT innovation. We WANT better battery life, not a slightly thinner laptop. We WANT our USB ports and MagSafe. We WANT a touchscreen MacBook. We WANT significantly upgraded specs, and expandability. We WANT to have the same physical keyboard layout we've had forever. We WANT Apple to stop f•••ing us around by increasing the price while actively removing features. THIS laptop is not 'excellent at what it does' if I can't: • use any of my existing peripherals with it without paying an exorbitant $35 PER ADAPTER to get it to do so. • provide me with a significant performance increase to a laptop I bought 4 years ago. • provide me with the same features the previous laptop had (built-in HDMI, built-in SD card slot) This is head-shakingly, miserably sad and would've been a punch in the balls already for any serious pro user if it wasn't an additional punch in the balls for Apple considering Microsoft showed yesterday it's actually willing to innovate.
- TheRealDunkirk 10y agoFor me, "please, no," to the touchscreen. I think Apple is quite rightly keeping the dividing line between macOS and iOS with a touch screen.
- maxxxxx 10y agoHave you worked with a touch screen laptop? It's actually quite nice once you get used to it.
- cygned 10y agoI never understand people who want to have a touch screen in such a form factor. I mean, I would have to move my hand from my keyboard to the screen. That sounds very inefficient to me (but I am a heavy keyboard user, though).
- Osmium 10y agoWould be curious to know if they tested the Touch Bar below the keyboard instead of above it. I wonder if, as the concept further evolves, the bar might become larger or migrate locations. The comparisons they made to the original PowerBook were interesting, in that it really showed how constant incremental changes really add up in the long term. Edit: Another possibility is to integrate an OLED display into the trackpad too, so then you have haptics as well, and could interact with both mouse and touch bar with one hand. [Reposted my comment from the other thread.]
- slantyyz 10y ago>> The comparisons they made to the original PowerBook were interesting, in that it really showed how constant incremental changes really add up in the long term. I spent a huge chunk of my savings to get a Powerbook 170 in the early 90s to get the active matrix grayscale screen. I still miss that trackball. It was --awesome--.
- andyfleming 10y agoI imagine you would accidentally touch it too often it if it were below the keyboard. I wish they would have put it above the normal esc/f-key row and left it.
- milankragujevic 10y agoDAAAMN what a disappointment. No Mac Mini, no iMac... Well, might as well not buy a new computer afterall... :S
- dasmoth 10y agoI think Apple are looking to kill off desktops within a few years now. If you watched the event, they had a sequence showing a "pro workstation" with a laptop taking the "keyboard position on the desk" plus external monitors and thunderbolt storage. That's where they're heading...
- milankragujevic 10y agoBut what do I do with a MacBook Air 11" for ultra portability and no desktop yet because old PC broke, and I wanted to get a Mini because no money but I don't know what to do now...?
- josho 10y agoThat's fine for Pro's, but a silly strategy for the home/family market. Buying a mini is a no brainer. Buying an iMac is a bit iffy compared to PCs on price. But, a MacBook + display is a no go for most homes. I suppose Apple feels their iPads will target the home market.
- dasmoth 10y agoI don't think they expect home users to use an external display for "work" usage. For video or casual gaming you can connect to a TV. (Not necessarily happy with this logic, but I think it's the direction they're headed...)
- tensor 10y agoThat was quite a silly setup. The keyboard screen blocked the monitors and you have a break in the monitors right in the middle where you look most often. I currently use a MBP with an external monitor, keyboard, and mouse. It's ok, but with only 16gb of ram and no nvidia chips it's not exactly a good workstation. Professionals are now forced to have a second computer with a lot of ram and GPUs for computing. Very much not ideal.
- swang 10y agoI have the early 2013 MacBook Pro. It is still pretty fast. Nothing I saw today makes me happy to upgrade as a developer. Sure it's lighter and thinner and HUUGE trackpad that's a nice to have when I'm traveling. But the TouchBar requires me to look down at my keyboard which slows me down. And they can't even leave the keyboard itself alone with the terrible butterfly implementation coming over from the 12" MacBook. And I am sure all the Mac developers will enjoy developing apps that both have and do not have TouchBar. Just wait 5-7 years for all the non-TouchBar based MacBooks to not be as common. Then the ports. Apple seems to think that it can force upgrades to technology like they did with (arguably) floppy drives and cd-rom/dvd drives. But USB (non-C) is not a dying standard, neither is an SD-card slot. People still use SD-cards Apple! I don't want to buy dongles all the time. I am shocked they even bothered to include a headphone jack. Where's your courage now Apple? All of this has been very off-putting as a developer. And where are the iMac and Mac Pro updates? edit: also they got rid of magsafe. i guess thats a split since their magsafe 2 cables were way too loose.
- freshyill 10y agoI have no idea with the idea of MagSafe, but on my Retina MacBook Pro (also early 2013), it's become extremely finicky. About 20% of the time, it just doesn't charge. I just have to connect and disconnect it a few times and eventually it works.
- eof 10y agoI have had to clean out the port a bit with a qtip.. little tiny bits of metal (or something) has gotten in there.
- jacobolus 10y agoYou have dirty contacts or a plug which doesn’t seat properly. Try wiping both sides with a dry q-tip (this is Apple’s recommendation) or use one soaked in isopropyl alcohol. Sometimes little bits of magnetic debris can get stuck in the computer side, e.g. iron filings, staples, etc. You can try to get these out with Blu-Tack or similar if the q-tip doesn’t cut it.
- bdcravens 10y agoGiven it's only TB3, and the party line is to get adapters, won't this mean that you'll need to add $100+ to the price for adapters?
- kevindong 10y agoThe Touch Bar seems like it'll go the way of iOS's/Mac's Force Touch: completely unused by users and completely unsupported by developers.
- mindo 10y agoThey should have called it "MacBook Hipster". Call me stupid, but this spring I bought mbp 13" mid-2012 model not because it's the cheapest one they have, but because that's the only one they had with swappable hdd, ram, battery and even with ethernet port that I personally don't care that much about. I much rather have slightly lower specs but when the day comes and my ram is corrupted or i need ssd replacement I could order one online and get delivered the next day, rather than drive 200km to drop it for repairs, wait god knows how long and drive those damn 200km to pick it up. Hispter glue sandwiches is not something I'm planing to buy as my next computer, I just really hope Apple will get their sh*t together and release another laptop for old school guys like me...
- distrill 10y agoThey're not going to...
- mindo 10y agoI'm not religious, but I'll pray every night for a miracle. :)
- twistedanimator 10y agoI've got the mid-2012 13" mbp as well and it has been great! I have the RAM maxed out to 16GB and replaced the CD drive with an internal SSD adapter. Now it has 1TB of space across two Samsung 850 Pro 512GB SSDs. It's still very fast! With that said, I'm leaving it on El Capitan. Nothing in Sierra tempts me to upgrade and pay the price of configuring everything again and being left with worse performance. It's sad, I truly believe this is the last Apple laptop that I will purchase as they continue down a path of adding things I don't care about.
- vegasje 10y agoSeems like my next laptop won't be a MacBook Pro. Can anyone recommend a good Linux laptop that will offer up to 32gb of RAM and have decent battery life?
- wkirby 10y agoHave you tried a MacBook Pro with Linux installed?
- TheRealDunkirk 10y agoI'd be interested in such a recommendation, too, as long as it also comes with an assurance of good external display handling and suspending capabilities. (Those are the primary reasons I went with a MBPr last time around.)
- adnans 10y agoYou could try going the Hackintosh route. I've had a Dell XPS 15" model (9530) with hi-dpi display (1920 x 1080), 512gb SSD drive (partitioned to two 256gb, one for Windows 10 use when needed). There are few quirks, webcam light stays on after use, SD card slot not working but the whole Hackintosh community is great at solving problems.
- pavanky 10y agohttp://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-laptop?c=us&l=en&s=biz http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-lapt... I have an earlier version of the precision. You can easily extend the RAM in the precision line, but I am not entirely sure about the XPS. That said, two things I wish I could have known earlier: - Get the 1080p version. The intel GPU can not handle 4K (or atleast the one on mine did not). - The default battery is not enough. Go for the 90WHr battery. I chose the 2 hard disks option, but the good thing is that the battery is replaceable. So I am hoping to get the higher capacity battery soon.
- plusepsilon 10y agoI feel like a touch screen on the trackpad would've made more sense. Since it's so large there's room to be creative with on-screen shortcuts, dragging sliders, choosing an emoji :), etc. You can still keep all the keyboard shortcuts you need and not need to look at 3 things at once (screen, keyboard/trackpad, touch bar).
- cygned 10y agoJust bought one. Too sad, the MacBook Air is dead.
- lifeformed 10y agoHow does Apple always have the worst websites? They _never_ work properly for me. Do they not test in Chrome Windows? The video links never work, the horizontal sliders are always broken. Aren't they supposed to be good at design or something?
- JoshGlazebrook 10y agoWhat isn't working for you? I've never had any issues with Chrome on their website.
- lifeformed 10y agoEvery time I check out a new product page of theirs I get these problems. The video players never work or even open, and the horizontal sliders are always broken or sticky. I turned off all my plugins and nothing helps.
- 3adawi 10y agoHow am I gonna use intellij with function keys :(
- mickronome 10y ago/rant mode partially activated While I want more RAM and better GPU to be able to connect more and bigger screens, I don't want any gimmicks. If they could get the keyboard to feel crisp longer, or make it cheaper to replace would also be great. But instead they add a bar that will probably make keyboard replacement even more expensive, and then they remove the magsafe which has saved my computer on several occasions, what's up with that ? Stupidly hunting for a mm thinner profile ? I never really like Jobs, but to me he always appeared to want to build beautiful tools, and while I have not always agreed with the aesthetics and the hows, they were still tools, and I respected both him and Apple for that. In contrast to that, Apple today appears to think they are selling a innovative fashion statement, or maybe a lifestyle ? Completely foregoing the tools aspect, and now it has reached the MBP line which have been mostly spared until now. It's a pity.
- te_platt 10y agoI've been looking forward to this for while now but my first reaction is that I don't think I need a new laptop. And I really wanted a new laptop. It looks nice, the last model looks nice too. The touch bar looks like it could be nice, 95% of my time I use an external keyboard. The new display looks really nice, 95% of my time I use two large external monitors. The USB-C ports will in the long run be more convenient, right now I'm looking at > $100 in adapters. I'll check them out at the store but I may just look for a good price on the last model.
- ben174 10y agoIt'll be interesting to see if Apple releases a new external USB-C keyboard with touch bar. I'd expect it to be priced around $150.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- vladimir-y 10y agoSo now there will be no way to use new Macbooks with Linux/Windows installed due to that weird numeric touch keys row? I better consider recently updated HP Spectre x360 with newest Kaby Lake CPU and usual fn keys row, plus it's convertible if someone needs that.
- thoth 10y agoWindows support for the touch bar gizmo will depend on Apple updating their bootcamp drivers. As for Linux... I guess somebody will need to reverse engineer and write a driver for it.
- vladimir-y 10y agoDoesn't sound very encouraging, but yes there is no other way since obviously Apple is not supposed to support Linux/Windows systems. That Spectre x360 laptop in my opinion does look like a real Macbook competitor, even a better device in some aspects.
- emilecantin 10y agoAt least they kept the headphone jack...
- Randgalt 10y agoI was totally prepared to buy one of these new MBPs and now I likely won't. Spec wise these are not much better than last year's model. Frankly I don't care too much about the ribbon-bar thing. What I really needed, as a developer, was 32GB. Damn.
- EpicEng 10y ago>And if you really want to go crazy, you can use the 15-inch version to run two 5K displays side by side Yeah... I wonder how well it can really do that. The thing that always makes me hesitant to jump back to a MB Pro is their terrible GPU performance. I hate spending that much on a machine which can barely run WoW.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- catbird 10y agoWhat would be the best time to buy the previous model of 15" MBP? The slight bump in processor speed doesn't make up for the loss in connectivity to me. I don't think I could live without magsafe power and an integrated SD card reader.
- gnicholas 10y agoSeeing this makes me want to go out and buy an 11" MBA (currently running a 2013 model), before they're gone. It reminds me of when the 12" Powerbook was retired.
- ianai 10y agoLong live the 12" powerbook!
- rdslw 10y agoHurry. I need to buy previous generation macbook pro while supplies last. Three years more!
- transfire 10y agoMore like "MacBook Blow". I mean really. They are trying to innovate but this thing still has a giant Caps Lock key, yet no Esc key? And who wants to use those tiny up and down arrows? I think the touch bar is a fine idea, it is actually way over due, but why make is so thin? And honestly I hate touch pads, force or no force. How about Leap Motion instead -- that would be innovative. And then there's the price. I guess people in San Fran can afford it. But it's certainly not a computer for the rest of us.
- nwrk 10y agoThe ESC on touch bar is really funny
- dguaraglia 10y agoAs a heavy Vim user, this might be my last Apple development machine. I can always remap Caps Lock to Esc, but years of muscle memory > a flashy feature I have little use for. There's nothing I'd pay extra for in this new machine: touchbar is a meh, biometric authentication has been around since ~2005, the hardware specs are finally catching up with what everyone else has been shipping for a couple years, the new keyboard is horrible, Siri is the new ubiquitous feature nobody wants, USB C... meh. I wonder if 2017 will finally be the year software developers go back to Linux machines? If only the story for mixed DPI displays was solid, I think it might finally be The Year of Desktop Linux :P.
- asadlionpk 10y agoThe upcoming devs never used Linux in the first place. So I highly doubt that. The tools will have to adapt.
- dguaraglia 10y agoSure, but there's an argument for Linux as a development platform: most modern stacks are mostly OS agnostic. Node.js, Python, Ruby, Go, Swift, Android development... unless you are doing iOS or Windows development, there's nothing tying you to one or another OS. Even .NET development is going that way.
- beamatronic 10y agoI agree, in all of Microsoft and Apple's recent moves, the big winner is Ubuntu ( at least, for those in my immediate circle, who want an OS that Just Works )
- massysett 10y agoLinux is not bad. But nobody is making decent Linux hardware, and the instant you slap Linux onto a Windows machine, battery life plummets. My days buying Windows machines and struggling to get Linux on them are over. I'd rather buy a Mac and get a Unix I can use without having to install it. Is anyone actually selling a decent preinstalled Linux laptop? If I really wanted to use Linux I would rather buy a Windows laptop and run Linux in a VM.
- dman 10y agoI got downvoted for this comment from 2 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12783720 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12783720 => I am expecting apple to drop both the headphone port and usb ports this time around. Maybe 2x USB C ports on either side
- stephenitis 10y agoclose but no cigar. headphone jack is still there.
- ianai 10y agoam I the only one wondering who wanted a 67% brighter display? I for one would like a display without a backlight...
- stemuk 10y agoHow come all that complaining and rambling about the missing upgrades for the iMac or Mac mini? I really think that Apple did a great job at evolutionally improving the MacBook Pro under the hood, and the TouchBar seems to be a really usefull addition for creative professionals. Quite a fraction of the HN community really seems to enjoy complaining about what possibly could have been, rather than just beeing happy about the stuff Apple delivered today. And if you just can't stand the new MacBooks? Who cares! There are tons of other manufacturers to choose from and a different machine may just fit your taste perfectly.
- cooper12 10y agoHN just loves to be anti-Apple so they can say they aren't sheeple. Every keynote thread here has had comments about how Apple stopped innovating after Steve Jobs. And yet every year they still somehow innovate. Comments like that show how deep HN has fallen into the cult of personality, that they actually believed it was Steve who was coming up with all of these ideas. So much for not being sheeple ;).
- ajeet_dhaliwal 10y agoI don't think this is fair. There are features many devs care about that going away. Everything soldered to the board meaning nothing can be upgraded, no increases in ram (which is fixed and makes this even worse), getting rid of ports that people use, now a touch bar that does not appeal to touch typists, and then to top it off a huge jacking up of prices .
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- cooper12 10y agoThe soldered-in stuff is not new to this model and is unlikely to be reversed. Your average user does not need more than 16GB of ram, and as said before, is not a new thing with Macbooks. (it's like expecting smartphone makers to suddenly include SD cards, sorry but the ship has long sailed) As for ports, they have USB C which can do everything the old ports did; that's where the industry is headed anyway, Apple is only jumpstarting it. Lastly, yeah the Touch Bar is not for touch typists, so what? No one is going to force you to use it. Price is price, that's just the Apple Premium (TM). It's naive of the commenters to think that Apple is suddenly going to appeal to them, sorry, but you're not the target demographic. Go buy some decades-old Thinkpads and install Linux on them since that's what you were going to do anyway.
- wkirby 10y agoWhat I wanted: - 7th generation Intel chips. Skylake (6th generation) is from August 2015. - A move to Nvidia GPUs - Retain the magsafe power adapter - At least one dedicated display-out port, preferably HDMI - 32GB RAM for the 15 inch base model - Support for the airpods using their new W1 chip What I'm mad they included: - Price increase for low value - Touch Bar does away with physical keys I use daily (most importantly escape), while providing very little functionality I see using in my daily workflows (auto-complete on a desktop? I type faster than that.) What they could have surprised me with: - A full touch screen - Support for the Apple Pencil on the new larger trackpad - Any mention of their desktop lineup
- masklinn 10y ago> - 7th generation Intel chips. Skylake (6th generation) is from August 2015. Nonsense, 45W Skylake are from April-May, 45W Kaby is not expected until February-March. edit: oh I just remembered they didn't use Iris Pro parts in the 15" so you are correct that these are 2015 parts. The corresponding KL parts still aren't out though.
- grennis 10y agoRazer blade uses kaby lake available now
- anzuli 10y agoWhile you are correct, the Kabylake processor that the Razer Blade uses is a low power 15W TDP chip. By nature this means that it is still slower than the range of 28W TDP Skylake processors the new 13" MacBook Pro family is receiving in this update. The 28W TDP variants of the Kabylake family is not yet available from Intel. Sources: http://ark.intel.com/products/95443/Intel-Core-i5-7200U-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_10-GHz http://ark.intel.com/products/95443/Intel-Core-i5-7200U-Proc... http://ark.intel.com/products/91164/Intel-Core-i5-6287U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_50-GHz http://ark.intel.com/products/91164/Intel-Core-i5-6287U-Proc...
- J0-nas 10y ago
- pisarzp 10y agoThey could've at least put lightning port in it. Android and Mac users can now charge and listen to music using same cables, but it's not the case for iPhone
- jakebasile 10y agoThey are also still selling the old models. For the same price as when they were released.
- HugoDaniel 10y agoheadphone jack ? what kind of treachery is this ? :D
- wkirby 10y agoWhere will I plug in my new lightning headphones...
- johnnydoe9 10y agoNot enough courage
- wkirby 10y agoI'm beginning to think Steve Jobs didn't die, he just got hired by Microsoft.
- dfischer 10y agoOn one hand disappointed - on another hand... what could you really do with a laptop at this point of innovation cycle?
- jmspring 10y agoDear Tim Cook, As the owner of a 16gig, 13" MBP, i7 processor, MacBook Pro, explain to me why I upgrade? Utili-bar is stupid. Old processor, no chance for more memory, OS going to shit by trying to be as constrained as iOS. Upgrade why?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- claudiug 10y agogiven the new mac book pro, genuine question: What is the best linux notebook that close the gap with macbook pro?
- pritambaral 10y agoDell XPS Developer Editions and ThinkPad workstations. No single specific model counts as a Macbook replacement. You have to choose. (Which isn't bad.)
- willismichael 10y agoI've always been happy with System76: https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops
- ashishb 10y agoThey feel clunky
- anuragsoni 10y agoI have been using the Dell Developer Edition since April of this year. There were a few hiccups because of some driver issues related to their USB-C dock (Correct me if i'm wrong, but I guess this problem was not limited to just their linux laptop?) Ever since upgrading to Ubuntu 16.04 things have been pretty smooth. I believe any distro with a 4.4 series kernel or higher will behave pretty well. Before this I had a thinkpad T series (I miss the keyboard, and the abundance of ports. It was really good), and I never had any problem with running any distribution of Linux. In Summary: I think you cannot go wrong with either a Thinkpad or the Dell Developer edition. They are well made machines with good support for linux.
- rorykoehler 10y agoI've been looking around. These look like sub-par options. Horrible plastic cases are a deal breaker. Also the track pads seem to be toy like compared to the macbook pro. I've been waiting to get a new mbp but after yesterdays announcement I'm not so keen anymore. Would love to switch to a linux machine but the hardware needs to be equal or better than the mbp not only in specs but in quality of finish.
- claudiug 10y agogiven the new mac book pro, genuine question: What is the best linux notebook that close the gap with macbook pro?
- Matthias247 10y agoSo if I compare the base model (13", no touchbar) with my current-gen 13" pro I see exactly one advantage: Thunderbolt 3. Seems nice to have for future docking stations and monitors. Don't care if only used as a notebook And lots of disadvantages: No Magsafe connector, no HDMI (which most current-gen monitors have), no SD Card, probably a worse keyboard if they adapted the 12" Macbook key style and 300€ more expensive. The touchbar might be a nice gimmick for some casual users which never used the function keys anyway. But I guess for most folks here that use their notebook for programming it will cause more trouble than help. It's not like most IDEs will support for the touchbar anytime soon if at all. And without special support it can be only worse then physical keys. They should have probably offered at least the 15" version without a touchbar too.
- blinkingled 10y agoApple's price points are no longer attractive anymore for the laptops. Previously you could buy a current gen MBA 11/13 for decent prices relative to what they offered. You could also buy MacBook Pros for less - for a 15" the starting price is now $2399!
- hiram112 10y agoAgreed. For non development use, an Air was fine and I'd actually recommend them at $900 (often on sale at BestBuy or Ebay). I just bought a brand new Dell Latitude Ultrabook with i7 and SSD for $600 from the outlet store. I added ram for $40 and it has a three year warranty. An i5 MBP at 2x-3x the cost is no longer worth the OSX premium, especially for those users who need only a browser and MS Office.
- ohstopitu 10y agoI was looking to get a new laptop this year (black friday) and now I have no idea what I'm getting. I've waited years for a Retina Macbook Air and instead, we got this. Overall, I'm less and less impressed with Apple. I am considering getting a mac mini for iOS development and calling it quits and moving over to the Windows world.
- frenck 10y agoTime to hit ESC... ow... wait... :( :S
- pvdebbe 10y agoThere's no escaping the Apple walled garden!
- crazy__joe 10y agoSo, where do I plug in my new iPhone 7 headphones?
- hiram112 10y agoDoes anyone know what is to become of the 2012 13" model that they still contine to sell that allows upgradable ram and HD? You can still find them for $800 on EBay (brand new), but it doesn't look like it is still available on Apple's site. There is a 4th 13th inch on the site, instead, but it is not the same as it has 128 SSD and newer graphics. It would be great if this had upgradeable ram and HD.
- PhantomGremlin 10y agoI think this was discontinued as of yesterday. It was definitely available on Apple's website until then. I have one and it's great. Of course I ordered it with SSD, since the default spinning rust would have made it behave like a slug. But it is 1 pound heavier than more modern 13" models, and 1.5 pounds heavier than the newest ones just announced. Normally I'm OK with the extra weight, but it makes a big difference for the occasional time that I'm a "road warrior". Edit: someone linked to a story about it being discontinued. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12811050 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12811050
- hiram112 10y agoThanks for the help. Might be time to grab one of them before they're completely gone on ebay.
- adgasf 10y agoDoes it have lightning so that one can use a single pair of headphones with the new MacBook Pro and an iPhone 7? Seems like a crazy oversight if not.
- tuxracer 10y agoNope. USB-C and traditional headphone jack only.
- HugoDaniel 10y agoDoes this mean i can put an external gpu in those thunderbolt ports ?
- babygetoboy 10y agoFor someone who was planning to get this, but not is rethinking, what is a good PC alternative laptop to get to run linux on?
- laurent123456 10y agoStill no 17-inches version unfortunately. I don't get why they no longer make one - is there no demand at all for it? It's basically why I've switched to an ASUS laptop since I don't want to bother with an external monitor (not to mention the extra cost).
- poorman 10y ago16GB of RAM? Are they serious? I've got 64GB in my MacPro and I can tell you these electron apps (like Slack) are consistently using 20GB of RAM. https://twitter.com/NickPoorman/status/791715570718769153 https://twitter.com/NickPoorman/status/791715570718769153 Not to mention I use my esc key all day to switch Vim modes in Atom. Disappointed.
- nathas 10y ago... You have what is really just a webpage in a desktop container using 24gb? Wat.
- SCdF 10y agoUhm, surely that's a bug? I can't fathom what Slack would be doing with 20GB of RAM…
- pvdebbe 10y agoApple makes people learn the ergonomic C-[ instead of using Esc, which is so last year. All hail Cook!
- jmspring 10y agoApple has failed at cloud. They have fired their car group. Software-wise, they want MacOS to be as restrictive (I mean featureful) as iOS. Underwhelming hardware updates -- I work for Microsoft and was waiting on upgrading to a new MBP... I'm an apple household... Apple 2016 is Nokia 2007. No innovation, no inspiration. A strong rival could bury them -- though it will take $$. I'm not seeing how Apple buys them self out of this hole.
- ChuckMcM 10y agoInteresting, I really like the touch bar (see my comments about wanting to create something similar, if somewhat larger, in other responses) but the overall product leaves me flat. I get thinness in general but when is it thin enough? I certainly felt "if they just made it thinner" wasn't really something that would inspire me to upgrade. Now a cellular modem built in? Maybe. Doubling the battery life? Sure that would be pretty awesome. A clever way to turn it into much expanded "desktop" kind of experience? Sure that would have some interest (Macbooks have sucked at "docking" for a long time). I think it looks great, and the design touches are top notch, but it doesn't seem to be an improved product than what it is replacing. I miss Steve Jobs keen insights into the way I used things or imagined I might use them. I always felt he was speaking to the issue of "what every you are trying to do, using this tool will make it easier/faster/more intuitive Etc." what I got from this Macbook event was "look how beautiful it is."
- maxxxxx 10y agoI switched from Windows to Mac two years ago and I am really happy with my MBP 13". But this new announcement is pretty underwhelming. 16GB max RAM, more expensive, no touch screen, nothing new and interesting, but a need for even more adapter cables. But it's really thin! I am not sure what I'll do when my current Macbook breaks down.
- finstell 10y agoI guess, that's the end of it. Hereby, my love relation will die when my early 2015 Macbook Pro dies. There is absolutely no reason I'd update. Nil. What kind of "pro" would care about a touch bar? It's merely a toy. More often than not, these machines are attached to larger screens. It's not even going to be used much even if you wanted to. It's stuck with a 16GB RAM. If I buy it now, then I will be stuck with a 16GB RAM laptop for several years. The only thing I can appreciate is it's lighter now, but then I need to carry all the adaptors for HDMI, SD cards, USB devices. I wonder if it would feel lighter or a headache to travel with the new MacBook pro. To sum up it up, I would not consider to replace my 2015 Macbook Pro to a new one even it's for free. What was needed a lighter, more powerful "pro" computer with more battery juice maybe. What we get instead? How am I supposed to benefit from this? Will being able to select emojis from the touch bar increase my productivity?
- gchokov 10y agoI for one like what I see. I currently have 2012 rMBP and love the form factor, love the material. Why would I want something different from what I really like already? I am sure the display will be a lot better, but here, nobody talks about it. I totally agree that functional keys take too much time and there are some I never ever use. Can't wait to jump on the new MacBook. I'll be more than happy if it lasts me nearly 5 years again. I don't understand all the negativity recently here on HN. Do you try to look cool guys? Go get MSFT book and leave the rest of us to use what we already love, but better one.
- pc2g4d 10y agoI really dig how laptop input devices are in flux right now. There's this trackbar thing, and then there are RGB keyboards like on the Razer Blade Pro. Here would be my ideal input configuration: * Touchbar with haptic feedback to make the buttons feel more concrete * Physical escape key * RGB keyboard with good travel * Regular-size clickpad Of course, this configuration doesn't exist anywhere. The new MacBook Pro is intriguing, but I have concerns: * Max 16GB RAM * Oversized trackpad is going to be a palm-click nightmare * Not sure if I'd like the new keyboard * GPU performance is unclear---they didn't give enough details to assess it Based on the level of detail in the video on Apple's website, I'm clearly not the target audience of this product. They hardly touched on the actual specs at all, except in a very handwavy, marketeering way. I had been waiting to see what Apple would offer before replacing my ancient laptop. I just might go with the Dell XPS 15 but have been worried about build quality issues. I'd like something that can play games decently but I'm willing to sacrifice some performance in exchange for reasonable thermals and weight. 5.5 lbs is probably my max weight---I use it on my lap a lot.
- 6stringmerc 10y agoAgreed on all the choices. Getting kind of crazy. How about my "Wristband Carpal Tunnel Keyboard" concept for all your devices? https://medium.com/@6StringMerc/why-i-keep-secrets-as-a-wannabe-inventor-cc06886147d3#.f1czka7g4 https://medium.com/@6StringMerc/why-i-keep-secrets-as-a-wann...
- wineisfine 10y agoAnyone else here still working on a Macbook Pro 17" ? Seems like everybody forgot about it, but was a great machine back in the day. And you could even buy a matte version of the screen.
- buckyball 10y agoYes, i do. I replaced the hdd with a ssd 2 or 3 years ago and i still use it every day and love it.
- sly010 10y agoApple will literally replace the keyboard with a touchscreen an inch at a time. Then everyone will follow suit, so we will all have to use external wireless keyboards (because the USB3- USB2 adapter will cost more than a new keyboard). Fast forward 5 years and Apple will announce "Macbook Bro", a laptop with a tactile buttons!
- sly010 10y agoFully reinvented .. bla bla .. Our most physically backward incompatible computer yet!
- arihant 10y agoThis does not seem like a major announcement to me. They added a bar and touch ID. But they added force touch with taptic engine last year and it took 3 minutes to introduce. Between this and Surface with Bash built in, it's the first time since Windows 98 that I can see myself using a Windows computer. This machine is not pro, as in not for professionals. No self-respecting Musician, Artist, Writer, Programmer, Photographer, Sportsman, etc. can make their living on this. This is what you take to a coffee shop to check e-mail. Anything else requires a dongle. It doesn't "just work" if you need to plug in a series of cables first. That's how Windows laptops were handled. They needed drivers for anything meaningful, this needs dongles. I need a laptop to create. I don't need a laptop that competes with a notepad on thickness and usefulness. It was all Steve Jobs. All of it. When is 4mm thicker laptop less elegant than thinner laptop with 5 dongles? Only on paper.
- phil21 10y agoI agree with you here. Unfortunately I will still be buying one as I don't believe bash on windows is there yet. However it was a painful choice and if I hadn't dropped my old 2012 rMbP repeatedly I'd be holding out. I think in a year or two Windows is going to look far more compelling. So apple won me with software. For now. The hardware is a step back though that I'm disappointed in. I'm strongly considering simply purchasing the latest rMBP release and use it for another couple years to see if anything meets my requirements then. That's a bad sign if you're Apple with a willing customer wanting to give you money whose primary driver is not cost. I'm actually all for the move to USB-C, but that was enough. A HDMI port at a minimum is a requirement for a pro series laptop in today's business world. It's either resign myself to carrying a dongle around, or buy the older generation of hardware. Sounds trivial but it's the overhead of a mental tax that simply doesn't need to be there. I run Windows 10 at home and it's getting pretty stellar as far as UI and features like high DPI. It sounds like they are rapidly making inroads on battery life (if not already surpassing Apple - the reason I switched to OSX in 2012 to begin with) on the same hardware, and as soon as they get some competent software like a terminal emulator that doesn't suck (assuming the linux subsystem development push continues) Apple really loses it's moat for this market segment. As far as I can tell though in the past couple years - they just don't care. At this point the largest missing piece for me switching back to Windows is lack of a stellar terminal emulator. Everything I've tried so far on the desktop (@4k) still either annoys me for closed source reasons, or just does not look as good as iterm2 on the retina. It's a silly thing, but something I don't want to have to worry about. It's also an incredibly shallow moat.
- EugeneOZ 10y agoOk, Apple, my current MBPr 13' have i5 2.6 GHz and new MBPr 13' have i5 2.0 GHz. Thanks, bye.
- j45 10y agoBoy, I'm a little relieved to have a fully loaded 13" rMBP with 1TB SSD, doesn't look like the new 13" with touchbar can let you go higher than 256 GB storage. If one standard was going to be picked, maybe 512 would have been better for a $3000 computer. The new Base model rMBP may be the next one for me for that reason for now. Keep finding it worth to always wait until the 2nd generation of a Mac laptop before diving in.
- lelandbatey 10y agoThe new 13 inch rMBP can definitely have up to a 1TB SSD. See this order page: http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MLL42LL/A&step=config http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MLL42L...
- j45 10y agoYour link has the new rMBP sans touchpad which can be upgraded. It seems the entry level rMBP with touchpad can't upgrade it's SSD. http://www.apple.com/ca/macbook-pro/specs/ http://www.apple.com/ca/macbook-pro/specs/
- rangibaby 10y ago> Keep finding it worth to always wait until the 2nd generation of a Mac laptop before diving in. Yep, I expect a lot of freezes, crashes, and general craziness with the touch bar until the next go around. It's just Apple's style.
- floor__ 10y agoI can't believe they didn't increase the ram. Wait till next year I guess.
- floor__ 10y agoI can't believe they didn't increase the ram. Wait till next year I guess.
- sly010 10y agoWhere will I stick my yubikey?
- sly010 10y agohttps://www.yubico.com/2016/07/yubikey-route-usb-c/ https://www.yubico.com/2016/07/yubikey-route-usb-c/
- jaxondu 10y agoCurious will the Touch Bar show the standard function keys when run bootcamped Windows?
- cowardlydragon 10y agoMonitors: just buy a quad HD TV for 40-55" for five hundred bucks.
- hota_mazi 10y ago"Our best addition so far: the removal of the ESC key!". Just kidding. You can still have one but we moved it.
- sly010 10y agoIt has a headphone jack. How oldschool.
- thetinman 10y ago100% agree with this. I'm still using the mid 2012 MBP 15 b/c I've waited for a major upgrade and now this... is probably going to wait 6 months and by the last MBP at close out prices then use that until the next version of the MBP because this one fucks up my work too much.
- jandrewrogers 10y agoThe most interesting new feature (to me) is that a Secure Enclave processor is built into the laptop. Depending on the details of the implementation, that may have interesting implications for the overall security of the laptop. I do agree that the rest of the updates are pretty underwhelming.
- pattisapu 10y agoWe're here to give you a computer, not a religion. - attributed to Bob Pariseau, at the introduction of the Amiga (fortune of the day)
- ommunist 10y agoAwww... Can I get "ESC" key on Touch Bar kind of permanent? Does anybody know that?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Rezo 10y agoI hope the Touch ID reader w/ secure enclave can be used with 3rd party apps like LastPass. Could be more convenient than a Yubikey (that you now cannot connect without an adapter!). My biggest worry is the new regular MacBook-style keyboard (which is complete rubbish), even if they claim it's improved. That's definitely something you'll want to try in person if you have a current MacBook Pro, at these prices.
- tedmiston 10y agoThere's a lot of dislike for the new machines in this thread. It's a good time to remember that previous gen machines are often found in the Refurbished [1] and Clearance [2] sections of the Apple site in the months following a launch. Clearance is empty right now, but there are plenty of rMBP in refurbished. [1]: http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac [2]: http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/clearance/mac http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/clearance...
- dorianm 10y agoStarts stockpiling 2013 Macbook Pros for my lifetime use (Seriously the 2013 Macbook Pro 13" feels so perfect) P.S.: It's weird how they never mentioned programmers in the keynote but I'm sure they are far more programmers than video editors on Macs
- paganel 10y ago> I'm sure they are far more programmers than video editors on Macs One would thing so, yes, but by reading these HN comments it seems that the only "professionals" worthy of the "pro" name are photographers and video-editors. There are even a couple of comments dismissing vim users (?!) for daring to touch-type, or something similar.
- bpesquet 10y agoDo you remember the last time you weren't totally or at least partially disappointed at the end of an Apple event? Me neither. Maybe we expect too much. Maybe Apple has consistently failed to deliver for a long, long time.
- headmelted 10y agoSpectacular. What people don't understand is that the reason Apple stays so far ahead of the rest of the industry year after year is their ability to integrate software and hardware, which as Jony Ive says in the video, is unique to Apple. Bravo.
- sdegutis 10y agoNot anymore. The Surface Pro is a great counter example.
- headmelted 10y agoI maybe should have been less subtle above, but this was me trolling. On a side note, I cannot believe in 2016 Jony Ive actually mentioned integrating software and hardware in a product video. This is a shockingly disappointing product launch, if only for how lost in the wheat they are. I'm starting to wonder if there's a very real possibility that Apple's marketing is so good that they've come to believe it themselves.
- callesgg 10y agoI can live without the legacy USB ports but the lack of HDMI and a magnetic charging port is harder.
- Roritharr 10y agoCan anyone just point me to a 32gb ram 13" machine with TB3 Ports? I would pay handsomely. If Microsoft had included a single Type-C port in the surface book, I would be at least in office bliss. We could all have just bought Type-C dock monitors and had instant flexdesks with one cablee... But no... I have to wait at least half a year more for that to happen :( If MS would just sell me a Surface Studio Display that works as a TB3 Dock for both Mac & Win Devices, offering Surface Pen & Dial support Windows only, or heck even Surface only, we would buy so many of them MS would have to become actually good at supply chains...
- pwenzel 10y agoMy technology prediction for 2017: Adblock for Touch Bar.
- walterbell 10y agoBest comment of this 1000+ comment thread!
- skMed 10y agoDo you know anyone that purchased Logitech keyboards for those sweet visuals on the tiny LCD screen? Me neither. This is a total gimmick. Power users don't look at the keyboard, it's a waste of time.
- redditmigrant 10y agoThis finally settles the vim vs emacs debate.
- kennell 10y agoI don't get it. The entire presentation was absolutely cringeworthy. The touch bar is a stupid gimmick being sold for a $300 price bump. Any serious developer, video editor or audio engineer knows all his shortcuts already and simply does not want to look down on his keyboard. The entire idea is flawed to begin with. I really would not care if they put this on their toy-macs (the 12" "Macbook" or the "Air). Go ahead. But for the love of god, just leave one machine for people that use their Macs as a serious, professional everyday work tool
- emars 10y agomicrosoft employees pls go
- bitsoda 10y agoConstantly having to shift your vision forward and down and back again is a usability nightmare. This isn't too different from the gimmicky nature of the Nintendo Wii U. Apple has lost its compass.
- everly 10y agoLess than two weeks ago I bought a 13-inch retina MBP with a 3.1GHZ i7 and 16GB RAM for $1,799 [0]. I was expecting that the update would make me wish I'd have waited but nope. Would buy the same one I currently have again, if given the option. [0] http://i.imgur.com/IT5LWJy.png http://i.imgur.com/IT5LWJy.png
- mixmastamyk 10y ago> There's a 13" MBP model that lacks Touch Bar, featuring normal function keys. The upgraded internals and lightness would be welcome.
- everly 10y agoThe internals aren't really upgraded though since I got the 3.1ghz i7 and 16gb memory. I've never once thought it to be heavy. And even if I agreed with those two points, it wouldn't be worth the loss of the ports.
- erickhill 10y agoToo many USB types now. Basically if you want the fancy new MB Pro, you have to sign up for new accessories or lots of ugly (and probably flaky) adapters all over the place. I totally get it, but it's annoying at the same time. I wonder if the Refurb Apple store is going to get nailed...
- Mikho 10y agoFact that majority of comments here in MacBook Pro topic are about Surface Studio and whether people still use desktops, and not nearly enough comments about Touch Bar--the only real innovation during Apple event--says a lot about both events.
- mcintyre1994 10y agoUK prices are absolutely batshit crazy, I know, Brexit, but oh my God. Middle range MBP 13" has gone from £1100ish to £1749. Bottom priced one used to have 128gb SSD and now has 256GB, but they've crippled it by only giving it 2 TB3 ports where the others have 4.. and it's still £1449.
- obiefernandez 10y agoWhere the hell are the USB ports?
- wkoszek 10y agoThey got smolla :)
- kibaffo33 10y agoHere is the evidence. The free thinking optimistic innovators of the tech community are really skeptical pessimists, doubting and disappointed. Like the rest of us, I suppose.
- setheron 10y agoI agree with lots of the sentiment here that the Microsoft lineup looked superior, but what option do I have if I do lots of development that gets deployed to a Linux environment. I know I can do docker/VM but I like the native coding experience.
- jblake 10y agoNot thrilled, but I need to replace my 2011 Air. Apple has me in the corner with Xcode...
- Tistel 10y agoI will bet $1.43 that Apple's next version of the iMAC will have a tilt bevel like the Cintiq art monitor and the new MS Studio computer. I think Wacom still claims to have better pressure resolution that the MS touch (no sure if true). I have a small cintiq that I enjoy. I feel a bit bad for Wacom, they seem to have attracted some mighty competitors. Maybe Cintiq/Wacom could try to partner with Apple. Have some sort of Wacom/iMac thing. Microsoft seems to have gotten some good leadership.
- xxxmaster 10y agoI am not sure if I have to pay so much extra money for fancy bels and whistles that do not help me as a programmer. I was really hoping for performance boost rather than fancy touch screen that makes me watch the keyboard instead of touch typing. What I saw from the presentation made my actually go back home and check what Windows announced yesterday, since I was quite disappointed (I actually found the presentation of the surface book more close to what I was hoping the next macbook pro should be). I believe the only thing that continues to save Apple for consumers like most of the ppl around here is that it is Unix based.
- rootbear 10y agoI have a long history with Unix (6th Edition on a PDP-11) and it was OS X that brought me to the Mac. I would hate to go back to Windows for commercial apps, except now there is the Linux subsystem in Windows 10. I was not impressed with today's Apple announcements and I thought the Surface Studio announced yesterday was pretty amazing. And expensive. My 2014 Macbook Pro may be my last Mac laptop. We'll see. I look forward to seeing what the next iMacs are like. I doubt at this point there will ever be a next Mac Pro.
- pjmlp 10y agoNot really, for me what matters is the NeXT heritage, not UNIX CLI.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- shogun21 10y agoApple is fully supporting USB-C on their MacBook line. I don't know why they didn't just go all the way with unifying that across the iPhone 7.
- bnchrch 10y agoI think there's one fact that a lot of people overlooked here. The new touchbar is optional. The new MBP comes in two models and one still has your typical function row. I do agree that the announcement was disappointing, leaving me questioning if I'd get a new macbook anytime soon. I would have liked some more ram but its not work flow changing for those of us who are already accustomed to mac laptops.
- noir-york 10y agoAll I wanted was an updated Macbook Air. Instead we get a toy bar. Quo vadis Apple?
- hydandata 10y agoFunny, the original PowerBook they showed had a mechanical keyboard and a trackball, things that are much more compelling, and definitely more useful to me personally. You know, as a professional programmer I sort of take pride that I am immune to all this "innovation" crap. It is surprisingly easy to do as well. Erik Naggum sums it up pretty well [0]: "... they don't make poles long enough for me want to touch Microsoft products, and I don't want any mass-marketed game-playing device or Windows appliance _near_ my desk or on my network. this is my _workbench_, dammit, it's not a pretty box to impress people with graphics and sounds. when I work at this system up to 12 hours a day, I'm profoundly uninterested in what user interface a novice user would prefer. ..." You can just plug in Apple here instead of Microsoft and the truth still reigns. Now obviously Apple is not targeting professional developers with their products, no matter how much you try to pretend that they do, just stop, stop accepting inferior tools for doing stuff that puts food on your table, no other field is as bad at it as ours. [0] http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3065048088243385@naggum.no.html http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3065048088243385@naggum....
- mark_sz 10y agoDisappointing, almost boring event. Almost, because it made me laugh when I heard someone saying "incredible" again and app called "TV" :)
- ajeet_dhaliwal 10y agoThe presentation at times looked like it was ready made for comedians to spoof. Tim Cook's delivery is like something out of Office Space. And that TV section. Statements of the sort "Look! What we've just watched has been added to the recently watched list.", "This is going to change the way we watch TV."
- Philipp__ 10y agoOh God, I miss Steve so much. I remember the time when Apple conference was a real event, everybody would watch, and second it was done we would call and talk for hours about it. Now after 10+ years at Apple camp, I am afraid that this machine I bought 9 months ago might be my last if something doesn't change in next few years. And I fear nothing will change, because Cook is leading this company by profit and numbers, and he is doing great! But that is what killed Apple many, many years ago. And worst of all, I do not see anyone who can fill the shoes Apple had 5-10 years ago.
- Luftschiff 10y agoCan anyone here give me Buying Advice? Mine just died and I was really looking forward to this event because I have wanted to switch to Mac for a while now (I really don't like the "new" Windows interface and I've only had trouble with my previous Windows Laptops) but I don't see a reason to pay what would amount to about 2 months pay for one of the just announced MBp. I want to be able to do all kinds of hardware intensive things (photo and video editing, data science/statistics, maybe software development) because I don't know what exactly I will need my laptop for yet and want it to last for at least 4-5 years. I'd also love my machine to be designed with some care, I just can't stand the look of the Thinkpad series. Any ideas?
- bo1024 10y agoHow about a Macbook Pro model from earlier this year or last year? They're great machines.
- Luftschiff 10y agoI was considering that option. How much RAM do you think I'd need? My work machine is an old thinkpad with 12GB but it does slow down/freeze fairly frequently (this might be a because of other reasons though) so I am thinking that 8GB would never be enough. Is macOS less or more resource intensive?
- bo1024 10y agoGood point - I don't really know, depends on your needs I guess. I don't do very much memory-intensive stuff so 8GB has been fine for me.
- Luftschiff 10y agoWhat kind of tasks do you usually do? My old Laptop was already 6 years old when it died so I have no point of reference haha.
- 10y ago
- pacomerh 10y agoApple is really struggling to innovate and its playing it safe with these updates. It would seem like they fear launching semi-failed products like the MS Surface RT, Google Glass, Amazon Fire Stuff, etc. What would happened if they did?. I guess they would become like any other tech company, not so special anymore. Was Steve Jobs really what this company had on their secret bag of tricks? or why are they going through this bland face. I would hope to be proven wrong.
- mick_schroeder 10y agoCan it play Civ VI?
- csomar 10y agoLots of negative reviews here. My first mac was a 15" rMBP-2014. I have really fallen in love with the machine and OSX. Here is what I think Apple got right (from a personal perspective): 1- Lighter and thiner. When I'm out, I care only about how light it is; and how thin it is. I have a bluetooth mouse, and I don't really need an HDMI and SD card slot. 2- I can see myself using the TouchBar for Chrome and Mail. I usually browse/mail when I'm out. 3- The cheapest version has a good Graphic Card that supports 4 HD screens. My current retina does support only two HD screens and I have been thinking of building a 3or4 screen setup. 4- Larger Trackpad. I can see myself using this too. Here is where I got disappointed: 1- Limited CPU upgrade. Would have loved if we got a real killer CPU here (xeon mobile or something like that) 2- Possibility of a 32GB RAM Upgrade. 3- Higher resolution screen, but this is low on my list as the current one is fairly high-res. 4- Better front-camera. 720p? Come on, it's 2017. At least a 5MP camera. It'd not add much to the cost and make my skype calls less miserable. 5- nano-SIM Slot for 4G internet. Seriously, I tether most of the time. This function has been in my 10" LG 6 years ago.
- calebgilbert 10y agoI really can't believe that 'OLED touchbar' is the lead off for this thing. a) if I hear 'OLED touchbar' one more time, think I'm going to freak/gag, b) if I cared less about anything regarding a mac in my life I'm not sure what it is. Guess I'll be hanging onto my 2011 Macbook Pro a little longer.
- tarikjn 10y agoIf I had to take some wild predictions/hopes, I'd say: - The Thunderbolt Display live on with the iMac, the new iMac having a new Thunderbolt target mode, allowing USB-C Macbooks to use all its peripherals/ports, including the GPU. - This new iMac will also be released with a touchbar keyboard accessory - e-ink keys keyboard will either be released with the new iMac or at a later stage, also triggering an update on Macbooks, which, as a side effect, will allow Apple to reduce its number of SKUs - no new Mac Mini, the iPhone has now enough power to take over that role with a new accessory or target mode and code updates on OS X allowing everyone with an iPhone to try or use OS X - Mac Pro will be updated In short: (1) the thunderbolt display will merge with the iMac (2) the Mac Mini will merge with the iPhone
- elnygren 10y agoWhy is everyone so disappointed? This is still by far the best laptop out there - let's go through the painpoints: - no 32gb RAM. Name one laptop (a laptop, not a battleship) that has 32gb. Dell and Lenovo have a couple monstrosities with trackpads from the 90s with that amount of RAM. - no ESC key. C'mon, obviously the toolbar has it when running macvim or iTerm (or some other terminal) with vim. - no Intel something, no Nvidia this and that. So? With regards to GPU and CPU this is probably the best laptop in the market that is this thin and light. - 10h battery life. MBP already has the biggest battery that is allowed in airplanes. Nobody can do better with same amount of computing power. - USB-C. In a way this is valid, however, the world is better off with less connectors (it's Apple, everyone's gonna follow suit). For MagSafe, look at something like ZapTip. To people saying they are abandoning Apple after a decade of use: why? - still the best keyboard and trackpad BY FAR in the market - still the best build quality, design and dimensions in the market - excellent display - excellent software - an actual laptop that you want to carry around instead of a Dell/Lenovo plastic monster battleship I think other people already did the comparison against Microsoft. Surface Books are much more expensive ($/performance) with only the touch screen going for them.
- smilekzs 10y ago> still the best keyboard and trackpad BY FAR in the market I beg to differ. Last time I was at a BestBuy, I find every single Macbook there featuring a keyboard floppier than the type cover on my Surface Pro 4, let alone pre-chiclet ThinkPads which I have been using for 9 years until I switched to SP4. Full disclosure: I work for M$ now.
- theseoafs 10y ago> Name one laptop (a laptop, not a battleship) that has 32gb. Dell and Lenovo have a couple monstrosities with trackpads from the 90s with that amount of RAM. This seems pretty unfair. "Name a laptop with 32GB of RAM, except the ones I don't like don't count." > C'mon, obviously the toolbar has it when running macvim or iTerm (or some other terminal) with vim. I don't see how that's a foregone conclusion. Moreover I like using the terminal app that comes with the actual machine. > still the best keyboard and trackpad BY FAR in the market Trackpad maybe, but Apple's keyboards have gotten tremendously terrible.
- zyngaro 10y agoI currently have a mid 2012 Macbook air and I love it. I was thinking about buying a new Mac but now I gonna buy a Thinkpad. Apple strategy has become clear now. They are targeting the - wealthy that do not care much about technology and just want a fancy product - part of the market.
- zyngaro 10y agoI currently have a mid 2012 Macbook air and I love it. I was thinking about buying a new Mac but now I gonna buy a Thinkpad. Apple strategy has become clear now. They are targeting the - wealthy that do not care much about technology and just want a fancy product - part of the market.
- bby 10y agoapple has fucked up with this mbp. I am going full custom laptop now, one that I have designed myself with linux. as a developer, the touch bar, lack of USBs/HDMI/ports is unacceptable. I quit. I just destroyed my iphone 7, threw away my ipad, and am s*mizing my old ipod right now.
- greatest-ape 10y agoWow, people are getting very emotional about this. You know, Apple doesn't have an obligation to create the perfect product for your unique snowflake use case. And you don't have an obligation to buy any of their products either. Like, what are you people expecting from Apple? A few thoughts of mine: Pros: - Beautiful, thin, lighter design - Great screen (could of course have been even better) - Fast enough processor for most pro tasks - Judging by Apple's history, very good build quality - Up to 10 hours of battery life - A great OS mixing UNIX and support for professional programs Neutral: - Touch Bar: might be amazing, might just be an irritation. We don't know yet. I for one think it could be nice for music production and DJing, but likely not for programming. A few people actually use the function keys a lot. As before, they will be available while pressing the fn key. But people might want real keys. Since I use vim a lot, it's irritating that the Esc key won't necessarily always be where I expect it to. Sure, it will be available in the terminal, but in IntelliJ with the vim plugin? I might have to remap Esc to Caps Lock. An irritation but not a major deal breaker for most people. - Only thunderbolt ports. I think this is the right move and in line with expected Apple behavior, but I guess some people want to be able to simply connect old/current generation USB peripherals without any adapters - No more MagSafe. - Faster AMD graphics. This is of course nice, except for CUDA people and people who want to install Linux on their MacBooks (but seriously, why would you want to do that?) Also, positive: good support for external screens. But only for certain ones? I'm not sure about this, has anyone figured out exactly what screens can be used? - New keyboard, which some people will like and some won't. Negative: - Maximum of 16 GB of RAM, wtf? This is the only major deal breaker I see that applies to many people. - Hefty price. But we're talking about Apple here, folks. Pay to play To conclude, a great but expensive premium notebook with the major flaw of being limited to 16 GB of RAM. If you really need CUDA support, real function keys or have to be able to plug in various peripherals without adapters, this might not be the right computer for you.
- orkaa 10y agoMy friend found a receipt for the macbook air he ordered in 2012. https://twitter.com/OrkAA/status/791772715564826624 https://twitter.com/OrkAA/status/791772715564826624 Isn't this just a tad sad? :)
- EdSharkey 10y agoApple removed a physical Esc key - clearly a productivity superstar, but they DIDN'T remove that IBM-wannabe boat anchor Fn key?! The touch bar is all dynamic and touch-screeny, why the heck would you even need a PHYSICAL Fn key?? Just make Ctrl nice and fat like it used to be and dump Fn! I'd have less of a problem with Fn if Apple put it to the right of Ctrl like Dell does/did. But noooooo, they had to copy those usability whizkids at IBM.
- arcosdev 10y agoNot nearly enough RAM
- wkoszek 10y agoMakes me wonder how people here feel about the USB-C and basically all gadgets requiring adapters. I like Apple and Mac, but this piece.. Isn't it ugly at the end, that if you want to use an SD card from your camera you must get an adapter, adapter for your iPhone 7 lighting headphones and adapter for your $1k 27" Retina display which isn't 5k, but still pretty freaking good. That's 3 ports, and 1 USB-C port left you'll use for charging.
- grzm 10y ago"how people here feel about the USB-C" The idea of only needing one type of port is very appealing. No longer need to worry about ThunderBolt, DisplayPort, Mini DisplayPort, VGA, HDMI, USB, Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Ethernet. ("What? We don't have all of those any more!" I hear you say. Yup! Isn't it grand?) I'm ambivalent about losing MagSafe, but that's it. "if you want to use an SD card from your camera you must get an adapter" I can see how the SD card port is useful. That said, I remember the days when I had a camera with CompactFlash. Never had a computer than had a built in reader for that, and it wasn't that bad. As for adapters for other accessories, now all of the adapters will be X to USB2/TB3. The piles of adapters from this to that that I've collected over the years amazes me, in particular for displays and old FW drives. I'll be able to get rid of a lot of old adapters going forward. A tweet I saw today made me smile: "If someone isn’t raging about a hardware port, it’s not really a successful Apple event." https://twitter.com/rands/status/791733073972908032 https://twitter.com/rands/status/791733073972908032 Edit to add: Yup. Gonna be buying adapters. Won't be the first time, but going forward it's looking like that's going to be much more sane going forward.
- wkoszek 10y agoHm. Didn't get that. It's not that you've had USB->VGA or Thunderbolt->VGA etc adapters and you were confused which to buy. There was always 1 VGA adapter for projectors, 1 HDMI adapter for TV etc. (exception confirms the rule: there's combo Thunderbolt->VGA/USB-C/Lightning port) This won't change. It's basically the same now: you need all those adapters. So I'm going to throw away >= $100 of adapters to buy new >= $100 of adapters or more. I feel like I'd dislike Apple less if there was cable and adapter buyback program.
- sunstone 10y agoThe web page itself is a sign of the non-Jobsian direction Apple is taking. I doubt he would stand for all that shifting javascript crap.
- Etheryte 10y agoI think a good summary of how "innovative" this release is, is the fact the news didn't even reach top 20 on HN.
- toor2 10y agoThis is just another run of the mill update to me. I'm a developer and sys admin in research computing and to me, everything they removed I never used anyways. F-keys? Practically never use them, I much prefer keyboard shortcuts that allow me to stay closer to home row. Lack of ports? I never use them on my MacBook anyways so I don't really care Lack of power? All my heavy computing is done on remote compute clusters Not to say that my needs are homogenous or anything. I guess my point is, from my perspective, this update isn't some catistrophic failure on apple's part, and it actually fits my needs as a professional quite well. That being said, I will definitely not buy the new MBP. My late 2011 MBP still runs flawlessly and does everything I need on the go. All I'd really want out of a new laptop is for it to be as small and light as possible. For me, the point of a laptop is to be portable, not some do-it-all machine that can hold all of Wikipedia in RAM at once
- jrcii 10y agoThe all-new MacBook Pro. 32 GB of RAM, Bootcamp for Linux and BSD, a release mechanism to clean your keyboard and trackpad, new powerful NVIDIA graphics, and we brought back the backlit Apple logo. Sike. But we did remove the escape key!
- cyphar 10y agoWait, why are they talking about "Thunderbolt 3"? Hadn't Apple finally decided to use a standardised protocol for its ports (USB C) rather than creating a new proprietary thing? Or was the Macbook 2015 just an interim design while they worked on some new bullshit proprietary connector? Goddammit.
- ant6n 10y agoThey said fn-keys are a 45-year-old tech we don't need anymore. Next up: removing the screen, that's 70-year-old tech we don't need anymore either. Let's be brave!
- bane 10y agoSo it's looking like Microsoft may now be offering highly competitive and innovative hardware, now has a *nix subsystem and prompt you can drop to, better gaming, larger software library and so on, and tons of clone manufacturers who will ape Microsoft and Apple's offerings at a discount, why should my next machine be an Apple one? Arguing with myself, I'd say hardware quality is probably going to be better from Apple -- but damn that's a hefty Apple tax to pay (and it doesn't stop when you buy the machine). I can also say, working in a mixed shop, that most people who got Surface Pros in the last couple of years are generally happy with them, but they have all kinds of weird bugs and can be kind of flaky. A few folks with Surface books report similar issues. So there's that. But really, this was honestly kind of a disappointing showing a day after Microsoft pretty much reinvented creative computing.
- leroman 10y agoI cracked it! the laptop was designed for DJs! Now they can scratch and mix right from the laptop instead of putting it on a stand as if it was a super model..
- gniquil 10y agoI don't understand why there's so much backlash against the "bar". Personally I'm actually really excited. I'm a programmer. I can imagine all sorts of plugins and addons one can make for one's favorite editor. Imagine writing a plugin for vim or sublime text to inc/dec font size, mapping short cut functionalities to "named" buttons rather than F9. Don't like it contextually changing on you? Just program it to stay static. Some here complain that there's no escape key. But what prevents you from putting it there (better yet, maybe we could make it twice the width so you won't accidentally hit F1?). In fact, extrapolating further, perhaps in 10 years, the entire keyboard (and touchpad) will eventually become one giant touch screen, with location specific haptic feedback. By then, the younger generation of programmers who grew up in the age of touch screen phones and ipads will not miss the real keyboards (like we don't miss the blackberries). And that one giant touchscreen will be infinitely more customizable.
- overgard 10y agoSo as a programmer, this stupid touch bar thing is a huge downgrade. I use the function keys all the time in my development tools. Now I'm supposed to use some stupid tiny touchscreen with no tactile feedback? And I have to look down at it every time I want to tap something? This thing solves approximately zero problems I had, but creates a bunch more.
- chadcmulligan 10y agoThe touch bar seems interesting, perhaps what I'd like is a separate product that sits beside my mac and gives the touch bar functionality - something the size of a trackpad would be fantastic imho.
- antoaravinth 10y agoI'm not sure if I'm the only one who worried about Apple Logo On Screen lid which is not present in new macbook pro!
- pmyjavec 10y agoApple...less is more
- 0x7fffffff 10y agoSo, does it charge faster if you plug in multiple chargers?
- sundvor 10y agoNon-physical function keys are a horrible idea for programmers. I wouldn't go near the new MacBook Pro. Lenovo quickly learned their lesson about that with the Gen2 of the X1C, and reverted to Gen1-style layout in the third generation. I could see myself upgrading then, if my 1st gen still didn't work so well (i7/8/256).
- thadk 10y agoIs Apple including GPUs in all versions of the 15" now because of any future move around software development, augmented reality and VR? Is there really a GPU-4gb guideline on Oculus or is it mostly to do with the power of the cards. If so, is there any speculation about how these "Radeon Pro" 450/455/460 cards map to the prevailing laptop GPUs?
- winteriscoming 10y agoEsc key gone? Using vi editor is going to be much more fun now!
- beedogs 10y agoApple has officially lost the plot. It's truly sad what's happened to what used to be such a great company.
- dvcrn 10y agoThis event confused me. I had a bunch of emotions from happiness to utter confusion. I love gimmicks and thought the TouchBar was cool. Then I thought about it how I would usually use it, and the answer was "close to never because I touchtype". Then I realized that the ESC key that I use for so many things blindly is now more awkward to reach. Then I realized that the TouchBar doesn't have haptic feedback which makes precision work more difficult. Then I realized the coming version might actually have haptic feedback and force touch. Then I realized that the MBP is still limited to 16GB RAM max. If I buy this machine I want to use it for 6 years to come. 6 years with 16GB RAM doesn't seem realistic. I am not a negative person and absolutely love my Mac. I love the apps that I own and I can't wait to get my hands on the new Final Cut Pro. But I don't know if I want to buy another Mac. Remember when everyone told you the 15" MacBook is effectively a desktop replacement? That's what I want. A desktop replacement for work that I can also put in my pocket and carry somewhere else. I absolutely don't mind buying 2 Macs. One portable one (12") and one semi/non-portable one for the heavy lifting. But right now that doesn't seem to be the option. For example: The new FCPX is amazing! But it requires a lot of specs to deal with the ever increasing resolution. It's highly possible that phones can soon record 6k footage in <6 years that need to get edited somewhere.
- yasky 10y agoI am sorry, does anyone know how to navigate this comment page??? I can't even find the 2nd comment. The first comment has tons of replies and I have scrolled 30 pages and cant even find the 2nd comment.
- PhantomGremlin 10y agoThere are now collapseable comments. Just click on the [-]. This works at any level of hierarchy. Of course, you need JavaScript enabled for that to work.
- ashishb 10y agoHas anyone tried this GNU/Linux notebook alternative: https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-15 https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-15?
- holografix 10y agoThe day we get a believable competitor the Apple iPhone the MacBook will be dead. Zero innovation coming from Apple right now, just amazing! I love Apple products but I had to buy a Surface Book due to the lack of updated hardware... guess what: it's a pretty decent laptop and the touch screen + pen is great. I expected a little more from Apple. Sorry the lcd Fn keys just don't cut it for me I hope I'll be proven wrong but right now I think it's quite a poor gimmick.
- asimpletune 10y agoIt's plain to see from reading the comments on here that Apple's graded on a curve, and they've gotten so good at what they do now that people are completely out of touch with reality. Bearing that in mind I think Touch Bar is amazing. Laptops still occupy a very important computing space - having a dedicated physical keyboard -, but this also makes it really hard to make them better. Which is why I was all the more impressed to see how how delicately it augments that laptop-experience I mentioned in such a subtle and nuanced way, yet decidedly introducing a new, patient dimension of interactivity. No, this isn't splashy or in your face "innovation", that would be too easy, but for those of us who have the imagination and can reserve judgement for a moment, this is going to dramatically improve the computing experience. And it's not about this being a "pro" product, hopefully Touch Bar will make it to their whole lineup down the road, it's about them being focused and disciplined in introducing something that people will actually find long term value in.
- seaghost 10y agoWhen you look at the venue you see how much they appreciate MacBook brand.
- joeguilmette 10y agoIf I'm not a professional user I don't know what is - I spend a double digit percentage of my life on a laptop (wow that's depressing), running multiple VMs, Terminal, Sketch, Sublime Text, and around 15+ other apps all the time. I went through two or three MBAs, have a MB, and am excited to be moving to a new 15" MBP. I am not sure if I'll be keeping the MB. I am pretty sure my main use case for the ESC key is to close out full screen windows, which thankfully is still possible with the Touch Bar. I am a touchtypist - the only time I ever look at the keyboard is to figure out which function key will adjust the volume/brightness/skip track/pause music. I don't use the Mission Control function keys and I seldom adjust key brightness or use the power button. I have wireless headphones and the only thing I ever plug in to my computer is my phone to charge it, and even then I usually just plug it in to my little travel USB/AC surge protector that the MB charges from. I bought a dongle for the MB and don't mind the negligible amount of space/weight it takes up. I can't wait for the day when everything (Lightning included) is finally replaced by USB-C. Yea, it cost me nearly $4k out the door. Maybe I could save a couple bucks on another platform, or maybe they could've included newer/faster components. I stopped giving a shit about which model CPU was in my box around the same time I stopped building Windows desktops (hint: I was installing XP on them). I look back fondly on those days but very much enjoy the simplicity of today's computer, at least in terms of hardware. Long story short: I consider myself a Pro user, am excited about the MBP, and really don't mind any of the growing pains that everyone seems so enraged about. If as many people do jump ship to Msft as are saying it, that's great - they need the users, and Apple needs the competition.
- erikb 10y agoAt the time of this writing this article has 748 points and 1530 comments. For an uncommented link to a product page, really? This is not a shopping site!
- calferreira 10y agoWhen most people are discussing Surface Studio on a Mac thread you know that Microsoft really caused impression and Apple is in bad water.
- JoClimb1ng 10y agoNext level: https://twitter.com/neuemodern/status/791231970588106752 https://twitter.com/neuemodern/status/791231970588106752
- mobiuscog 10y agoHas nobody in their R&D, user-focus groups, etc., realised the inconvenience of now moving your focus between 3 disparate areas - the screen, the 'touch' bar and the trackpad. With a touch screen, it's all on one surface. Using a mouse / trackpad it's all on one surface. Sure, when using the keyboard, you have an additional surface, but then there are two things to offset it - touch-typing and keyboard shortcuts. If you really want to help 'non-tech' users who can't manage shortcuts or mouse/trackpad.... just give them a standard touch screen. Oh right. It's Apple. Even using the phone would probably be more 'convenient' for most users in this category.
- hittaruki 10y agoThank you apple, for not putting a touchscreen on that. As a developer One of the reasons I use mac is that, it is one of the few high end laptops without a touch screen.
- kriro 10y agoSo HTC recommends an RX 480 or up as a GPU for the Vive, how does the Radeon Pro 460 (highest available upgrade for the new MBP) compare to that? I read on Reddit that it's about 85% the power of an RX 460...so I guess not enough raw power for VR? Didn't Apple promote the new MBP line as VR-ready or am I misremembering?
- aurelienb 10y agoCongratulation Apple. You have added the worst feature ever: the touchbar with adaptive keys. I discover this feature with Lenovo X1 Carbon (not the first generation): I would have paid not to have it. I lost so many minutes everyday. [Yes, I know this is optional on MacBook]
- hellofunk 10y agoI use Apple products for most things in my life, but their marketing department has jumped the shark. "A Touch of Genius," it reads. Did they copy this line from page 1 of the "Grand Book of Cliches" ? If I had just a fraction of a penny for all the times in my life I've heard this phrase, I could buy a majority ownership in Apple, Inc.
- esseti 10y agoWhat's the next tool for developers? i'm happy with my mac pro, but this "upgrade" has set the milestone for the "don't buy it if you have to develop software". what do you people buy?
- SocratesV 10y agoUnderstand that for most, yesterday's event was a disappointment. For me it was a good step in the right direction, despite the boring presentation. (I'm speaking as an Apple user, not claiming Apple came up with all these first) 1. Touch First they made Apple users get used to, in laptops, working with a trackpad for more functionality than just moving the mouse and clicking. Then they reduced the profile of the keys. Now they've introduced a touchscreen in our keyboard area. Wouldn't be surprised if we see a move towards a full touch keyboard. How? Not sure. Today "me" would think of some kind of glass like material that could display any layout and image while molding its surface to it (or at least something like the Optimus keyboard done properly). Tomorrow "me" will probably thinking of completely getting rid of it and using the future AirPods as wireless brain interfaces (you can ridicule me for this if you want, I know I would). Nevertheless, we got physical keys replaced by something more flexible and that will give us a more meaningful interface for what you can do depending on the context we are working in. Alpha-numeric shortcuts will always have a steeper learning curve than an good icon or descriptive button (some real estate issues there for the number of combinations, one for UX to solve). Know that this doesn't seem much, but it is once you start thinking of the possibilities and that it's only the beginning of what's to come. Will talk about Microsoft later in this comment... 2. "Standard" ports Finally! Thunderbolt 3/USB-C. Dongle fest? Maybe in the first year or two. Then it means every single peripheral (power, external SSD, network, screens) will only use one physical interface to connect to your Apple laptop (others have also started doing this, so the wheels are in motion already). What about your old peripherals? I'm a hoarder when it comes to tech, so still have PS/2 keyboards and mice at my parents'... Remember then? What about Serial? Sure, it was over a longer period of time, but things evolve quite faster now, especially when you are trying to simplify and make things smaller, lighter. Different physical interfaces are the enemy in these cases. As I've previously said, was surprised that the iPhone 7 didn't come with Thunderbolt 3/USB-C. Imagine it was either some control issue they wanted to maintain or didn't want to rebuild/refactor that part of the device just yet. Would expect the next iPhone to make the jump and join the USB-C family. Have addressed the issue of SD Cards and such in comments in the iPhone 7 thread. The future is wireless, which is also valid for cameras. Pain in the short term, bliss in the medium-long. My 2 year old Panasonic compact camera has Wi-Fi, others have Bluetooth (and I'm not saying it's the best experience as it is, mostly due to poor attention to the software, since cards are still the preferred way). 3. Apple TV They now seem to be a bit more serious about Apple TV. Why? Remember when they used to go silent for years? Sure, nothing groundbreaking or that it hasn't been done by others, but it is becoming a more enticing device now that they are at least catching up to the rest of the devices. Still think that using it for socialize during sports is grasping at straws. You know you want full screen for the transmission and just use your smartphone/tablet to comment... Maybe work on a better integration there? 4. What about computing (CPU, memory, graphics) power? Need more than 16GB of RAM at this stage? Better graphics card? Mac Pro. Want a laptop? Not Apple at this point. Wait for the next iteration. This wasn't one of those, as you only change so much between them to minimise complications. 5. What about the Air? Look at the Macbook and the new Macbook Pro? The Air was the spearhead, the prototype that made both possible and prepared the audience, it will potentially die, which kind of makes sense (the amount of choice was becoming overwhelming and probably not that efficient from a production POV: more lines to manage and maintain, less focus on each one). 6. Microsoft Yes, their new computer looks nice, for people in graphic design and audio/video editing maybe. Going to be polemic, but I think the dial is a gimmick and will be the source of a lot of frustration. You can already do a lot with touch and I reckon physical device feedback is still better than bland plain touch. However apart for a niche application, I don't see the general public using it. Big touch screen? Unless they revolutionise the way we do touch and interact with the OS, and I hope they do, it will get boring and a pain to use for most people that simply browse, watch videos, listen to music, send emails and play some games. Kids? You probably go for an iPad Pro or equivalent, something you can carry around easily. Final thoughts My take on Apple at the moment is that, despite what people say, that they've lost their way and are doomed, I think that's not going to happen, they do have a vision for their ecosystem and they are focusing on it, both on the hardware as well as well as the services side and experience. They are slowly introducing changes which minimises the risk (of going down the wrong path) and allows them to learn more from users as they go. Think that 5 years from now when you look back, the evolution and experience will be quite clear (and again, the mostly mocked AirPods are going to be pivotal in this, not because of the sound or current function but because of what, as a device to be developed, they'll enable). We cannot expect big bang innovation every year or even every few years and when it does happen, you then take a while to refine it and make it better.
- msimpson 10y agoCNET wrote up a quick comparison table, found here: https://www.cnet.com/news/macbook-pro-vs-surface-book-vs-razer-blade-vs-dell-xps-15/ https://www.cnet.com/news/macbook-pro-vs-surface-book-vs-raz...
- x0x0dead 10y agook agreed USB-C is way forward, what about.. -no usb typeB (iphone 7 cable) -headphone jack mismatch (lightning to 3.5mm) -no hdmi -no sdCard Reader (dslr pic transfers.?) they should sell a docking station as well., or wait for 802.11ad for wireless hdmi etc but wait no 7th gen intel processors as well. hmm Mac Pro should be called Mac TouchBar
- i336_ 10y agoThis will get buried, but I was curious about the Touch ID bit. It's at the far right edge of the touch strip. Zoom in on this: http://images.apple.com/v/macbook-pro/j/images/overview/intro_large_2x.jpg http://images.apple.com/v/macbook-pro/j/images/overview/intr...
- gejjaxxita 10y agoI'm surprised by the number of people concerned about the lack of ESC key. I literally never ever use it. Perhaps that's because I've been a Linux user for most of my life and only recently began using Macs. I use emacs as my only editor. What do you use ESC for?
- chmaynard 10y agoOn Hacker News, everyone has an opinion about everything and feels compelled to share it with the world at every opportunity. Sheesh!
- SnowingXIV 10y agoWith all this confusion, has anyone figured out the best scenario for 1 cable to dock for work/home? Are there any good ones made yet? Lot of the third party docks have different watts and other issues. Plus, with TB3/USB-C (getting that right is a headache) what are people doing? Just have a million adapters? I was hoping this would make life more portable not less. I currently have a MBP 13-inch 2011 that I've upgraded RAM to 16GB and a SSD. Was waiting for this announcement for a long time and feeling kinda eh. Thinking ethernet, charge iPhone, external HD, and connect to external monitor HDMI/DisplayPort?