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I've been using it extensively since the release and the best summary I can give is that it's good enough to use it for (almost) everything and cheap enough tha
by LaurensBER 2mo ago
I've been using it extensively since the release and the best summary I can give is that it's good enough to use it for (almost) everything and cheap enough that the cost are irrelevant. I'm running it in Oh My Pi with a second instance running as "advisor" and even with 5-6 active sessions (effectively 12 streams) I'm struggling to spend more than 5 bucks per day.
OpenCode Go even has double limits temporarily so for 10 USD you effectively get 140 USD of tokens to spend. It would impress me if someone could burn that amount with "normal" usage. Even when running multiple sessions.
I have a Claude Max subscription but I've barely touched it, it just feels like a step back to have to think about limits and usage even though the models are stronger.
The beauty of intelligence at this cost (even if it's not SOTA) is that it opens a whole bunch of new use cases. Test failure in CI? Have the bot automatically propose a fix, its cheap enough that you can discard it w/h issues. Test coverage too low? Auto generate tests on CI for every pull-requests! Monitoring server logs, continuous security audits and investigating every received exception now becomes possible.
I'm thinking about having it automatically filter and re-rank my social media feeds so I can steer the algorithm instead of the other way around.
Perhaps other people (with enormous budgets) were already doing all of the above but for us this is a really exciting release!
- Aeolun 2mo agoBut DeepSeek now has a warning they’re going to sharply increase their API pricing sometime in the future.
- metadat 2mo agoSource?
- striking 2mo agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/DeepSeek/comments/1vgpysh/deepseek_says_api_pricing_is_going_up/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DeepSeek/comments/1vgpysh/deepseek_...
- dolebirchwood 2mo agoIf you're on the DeepSeek Platform, you'd see this: "We plan to raise the overall pricing for DeepSeek API services in the near future, with a significant increase expected. Please plan your usage accordingly. The specific pricing plan will be subject to official notice."
- embedding-shape 2mo agoI made a HN submission about it yesterday with a copy of the email: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49197176 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49197176
- LaurensBER 2mo agoDax (from Opencode) has tweeted that they can replicate or beat the price with rented GPUs. Deepseeks secret sauce is the incredibly cheap caching (magnitude cheaper than other providers). vLLM has recently released a similar approach. It's not as effective as what DeepSeek does but still an interesting development. I have no doubt that in due time other providers will match or perhaps even beat the current DeepSeek prices.
- NorwegianDude 2mo agoEh, what are you guys even talking about? Deepseek is not cheapest provider as is, and it's MIT. So deepseek making it more expensive to use is just nonsense, they can only change their own pricing. It's the beauty of MIT license and open weights. If anything, these models are some of the safest in the world to use if you worry about a rug pull.
- akman 2mo ago90%+ cache hit rate is common, and so you'll see on places like openrouter that Deepseek cache cost is indeed a magnitude cheaper than the rest.
- greenavocado 2mo agoMy usage thus far from api.deepseek.com - input_cache_hit_tokens: 1,265,646,976 x 0.0000000028 = $3.5438115328 - input_cache_miss_tokens: 18,208,088 x 0.00000014 = $2.54913232 - output_tokens: 9,615,178 x 0.00000028 = $2.69224984 - request_count: 10,837 (no price) Total cost: $8.7851936928 (approximately $8.79) Cache: - Hit: 1,265,646,976 - Miss: 18,208,088 - Total input tokens: 1,283,855,064 Hit rate: 98.582% (1,265,646,976 / 1,283,855,064)
- natrys 2mo agoSo your cost would be $40.68 with another provider that has one less zero in the cache hit price.
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- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- ms8 2mo agoYes, there is warning, but also there are many providers on OpenRouter[0], hosting open weight model with similar pricing. The question is Will they go up as well? [0] https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731#providers https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4-flash-0731#provid...
- apitman 2mo agoDeepSeek has far cheaper cache pricing. That's the difference.
- HSO 2mo agoeven if they double it it`s from such a low base it is still supercheap
- eli 2mo agoI assume/hope this is about prices going up for the next release of Pro
- fastball 2mo agoBut the model is open weight?
- anramon 2mo ago>even if it's not SOTA And, probably 99.99% of people using LLM probably don't even need SOTA anyway.
- swiftcoder 2mo agoAt least on these benchmarks, it seems to be pretty handily scoring up with the SOTA from 6 months ago?
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- jmyeet 2mo ago> I'm thinking about having it automatically filter and re-rank my social media feeds so I can steer the algorithm instead of the other way around. I hadn't really thought about this but AI may well be the technology that disrupts and ultimately destroys social media. The value proposition of something like FB or IG is, as we know, the network effect. The platform gets to extract value from user generated content. I believe that users should own the platform, a bit like the Wikimedia Foundation, because they're the ones that create value. Federation is a popular belief on HN and I've come to believe that's simply the wrong solution to the right problem. Anyway, how these social media companies make money is by optimizing the feed for engagement. People know it too so you see people trying to build an audience by rage baiting. And then more time spent equals more advertising revenue. But what happens when the AI can simply slurp all the posts and then filter and rank them? It destroys the engagement and advertising model. And I'm not opposed to that, honestly. It may be on eof the few good thing sto come out of AI.
- catigula 2mo ago>Test coverage too low? Auto generate tests on CI for every pull-requests! Terrible use-case.
- wrobelda 2mo agoTerrible comment.
- meetingthrower 2mo agoWhat's the best harness to use with it?
- LaurensBER 2mo agoI've enjoyed using https://omp.sh/ https://omp.sh/
- rpdillon 2mo agoSeconded. I love OpenCode and Pi, but omp is my daily driver.
- ljosifov 2mo agoomp - current top, after using codex claude opencode pi that I still use too
- dominotw 2mo ago> Auto generate tests on CI for every pull-requests! this seems like such a bad idea
- EchoVoicy 2mo agoDepends on the prompt I think. If it's just "Generate tests plz" then I agree, but if its "If this PR adds any new endpoints, ensure that there are functional and integration tests. If there are not, please investigate the feasibility and appropriateness, and create functional tests using the guide found on our wiki for guidance https://www.ourdevwiki.site/how-to-make-functional-tests https://www.ourdevwiki.site/how-to-make-functional-tests" then maybe it could add some value. But that very much depends on the specific system. Some tests are obvious, some not so much.
- amelius 2mo ago> it's good enough to use it for (almost) everything which in your case is?
- dan_q 2mo ago[flagged]
- rpdillon 2mo agoI've posted a few times about my project that's a collection of 30k-250k webapps that are served from a WebDAV server. The apps know how to write updated copies of themselves back to the server. My family uses it. I have gallery apps (yearbooks for each year are a lot of fun!) of us on trips and just living, an outlining app that's a mesh of Workflowy and Org Mode (it's called Fluxtral), a markdown-backed app (it uses marked.min.js, and is called Dextral) that offers documents, logs, calendars, and kanban boards, all parsed from markdown. I have a List app for gear, trips, shopping, etc. that we all can contribute to. There are utilities (world clock, calendar) and games (an oracle for RPGs, a KenKen implementation), and apps (a diagram editor that exports to SVG, a web-launcher that uses pneumonics, a Scheme-based hacking environment, and a spreadsheet that does most of what you'd expect aside from Solver and Pivot tables). I started these projects before AI, and made slow progress over the years, but the modern versions of all this stuff have been built with Deepseek V4 Flash. I've also used Gemini in the very early days, and Kimi K2.6 later on, but these days, since I can now host Deepseek v4 Flash 0731 in a 2-bit quant on my Strix Halo box (128GB, but only about 250GB/s of memory bandwidth, so 15t/s), I used Deepseek with omp for almost everything. It's a very capable model, and I'm amazed I can run it locally and get good results. It's really revolutionary for my (small) use cases.
- _s_a_m_ 2mo agoThese posts have to be Chinese bots, these models are all trash. Used it via OpenCode for an hour, cost me one hour of my life. It is for anything complete trash.
- greenavocado 2mo ago(1) you used opencode (2) what provider did you use. openrouter is trash because they shit up the model serving. no max effort and horrific cache utilization, on the order of 50-75%, absolutely garbage. beware
- alex0015 2mo agoWhat should we be running deepseek on besides opencode? I chose it because I heard good things. Also provider is directly through deepseek credits.
- greenavocado 2mo agooh you used opencode go? harness: omp.sh
- stavros 2mo agoI use the Deepseek API and pay peanuts. Very satisfied.
- dan_q 2mo ago[flagged]
- EchoVoicy 2mo agoPoint 1 finger out, and you point 4 back.
- ricketycricket 2mo agoSaid the man with 6 fingers.
- paxys 2mo agoHow is $5/day irrelevant? In the $150/mo range you can get effectively unlimited usage of GPT 5.6 Sol (Pro plan). Why use a much weaker model for the same price?
- rain_iwakura 2mo agonot at all true. if you're truly using it across the board for smaller things (translation of pages, filtering of every individual tweet based on its relevance to you etc), the costs ramp up super quickly. i used for work where i did less and it quickly reaches thousands if you're not careful. i can already see what some will say: skill issue et cetera - whatever.
- whimblepop 2mo agoI thought it went without saying that GPT 5.6 Sol is the wrong model to use for things like filtering tweets. Apparently not?
- nicoburns 2mo agoIf you factor in cost then it may well be, but it's definitely the case that the high-end models can get you significantly better results than the cheaper models even for tasks that feel like they should be straightforward.
- Drupon 2mo agoYou would think that no one would be stupid enough to use Fable or Sol for small one-off tasks like filtering tweets, but AI has opened up a lot of avenues for stupid people to ship code. It's only going to get worse.
- rain_iwakura 2mo agoyeah man it's me who's stupid and not you when i use an example of the author who claims that you can use pro subscription on all of the mundane tasks w/o going over the budget. sure. my point is that you can only use it with cheaper models. also some tweets are fairly dense in their compression/context, so yeah sometimes it's necessary.
- jojohack 2mo agoRunning DeepSeek with Pi as well, any plugins you recommend running it with ( e.g. native browser for snapshots, etc. )
- ljosifov 2mo agoHear hear. IQ tokens to cheap to meter upon us. So many things changed since last week. Now I've had Prime agent session grinding into its 20-th hour still not giving up. Been using opencode-go since Go sub appeared. What made a difference was deepseek-v4-flash and mimo-v2.5 showing. Very similar middling models ~300b so light on the gpu. 1M context and hybrid archs - so one can actually make use of that 1M (don't grind to a halt like others). In OMP I have one the primary (default), the other one as /advisor looking over the shoulder and nagging. On opencode-go in credits counting they are the bottom-2 in cost, cheaper by 200-350 times than than the top-1. Last week with deepseek-v4-flash-0731 another jump - now it's closer to the top models then to the middle. Now I don't even need the /advisor probably. Still left it there it's sometime amusing the models back and forth. :-) DeepSeek offer /v1/responses api now with flash-0731, so setup Codex to use that too. I'm loving this :-)
- klardotsh 2mo agoI would not recommend DSV4F (even 0731 edition) without an advisor. On its own it’s an absolute drunk intern in my experience, but with an advisor model watching like a hawk when it gets stuck in loops or goes down boneheaded rabbit holes, it’s fine (and very cheap). I’ve been using GLM-5.2 as my /advisor but might try just a second DSV4F instance.
- tcp_handshaker 2mo agoAnd software keeps getting worst. The analogy I like is that building software is running a Michelin restaurant. The moment you scale, the chef is just writing cooking books and is absent, and you move into franchising, you will be amazed at the bottom line revenue scaling, while customers will be progressively appalled with the food...
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- palata 2mo agoNot that I disagree, but the average software before AI was more like a McDonald's. I have genuinely seen companies who were writing code a lot worse than what AIs produce nowadays. Doesn't necessarily mean that their software is better now, but my point is that before AI, I don't think that software compared to Michelin chefs.
- abixb 2mo agoIf what you're saying is true and accurate, then US-based AI labs are in big trouble. The only saving grace might be some sort of a 'national security' proclamation banning the use of state-of-the-art Chinese (and non-US) models across US federal and state governments and large enterprises (especially ones with federal government contracts), but even still, US AI labs will probably lose out massively on international market if a smaller model can match SOTA of just a few months ago. There's no way large companies outside the US will pay the "US AI lab" premium if they can get the same workloads done at a fraction of the cost using open-weight models that they can self-host and optimize/fine-tune on.
- ComplexSystems 2mo agoIt is true. I don't care about having infinite frontier-level intelligence, and I don't care if Fable can one-shot frobnicate a klaxelzorp with a benchmark performance of 97%. I doubt most people do, in fact. I just want something that meets the baseline level of intelligence needed to be a really, really good pair programming agent. It shouldn't have any silly dealbreaker issues involving laziness or hallucinations, it should be smart enough to bounce ideas off of, and it should automate doing tedious boilerplate. And - most of all - I want to be able to afford using it as much as I want. That's what has happened here.
- abixb 2mo agoI wonder when we crossed the "99 percentile of intelligence for 99% of the usecases" threshold. At this point, the gains seem to be right at the very edge of bleeding edge for narrow and specialized use cases, and wonder if it'll be a sort of diminishing return from here on.
- horsh1 2mo agoIn April
- dukeofdoom 2mo agoProbably the best counterexample is the games they are able to design. It's still mostly AI slop, few would want to play.
- LPisGood 2mo agoDoes auto generating tests even do anything helpful? Don’t they just sort of tautologically say the code does what it does at best or do something completely ridiculous like test and implementation that only exists in the test file at worst?
- LaurensBER 2mo agoWe have an extensive description of _how_ tests should be written and they're reviewed by a human. All the AI does is fill in the boring middle part.
- sfifs 2mo agoIt's very impressive and I'm running it locally on 2x DGX. Non thinking mode is very responsive. Thinking mode has some latency but can be switched on when needed. Both are really good
- electroglyph 2mo agomy experience is the same, but deepseek is planning on increasing prices soon, which will make it a lot less attractive
- swingboy 2mo agoAgreed. With less than $10 on the DeepSeek API used, I’m somewhere near half a billion tokens over the past week or however long it’s been since it came out. I’ve found it to be very capable. I’m using it with pi as well and some custom extensions I’ve put together over the past few months and it’s pretty crazy having it do what I need it to a vast majority of the time, do it fast, and see that it’s used like $0.12.
- m101 2mo agoCould you go into how you run two instances that speak to each other in an implementer / advisor role in parallel? I’ve been looking for this sort of orchestrator / worker solution where there’s constant feedback and nudging between the two.
- LaurensBER 2mo agoSure! It's https://omp.sh/ https://omp.sh/ with the advisor mode enabled. You can probably implement something similar as a plugin for your preferred harness. From a technical perspective I think it just sends the output w/h the thinking and tool trace to another model and asks it to double check everything (exact prompt must be somewhere in the OMP repo).
- m101 2mo agoThanks I’ll give that a go. Would you run a less costly model as the supervisor given it’s consuming a lot of text and may have a simpler task to do like “make sure the implementing model doesn’t start over-engineering things”?
- h14h 2mo agoAre you using it via the official DeepSeek API, or via a different model provider? If the former, it's worth noting that their cache read prices are one tenth that of every other provider ($0.0028/M vs $0.028/M), so folks who want to use a sovereign inference provider with a zero data retention policy likely won't see anywhere close to the same value.
- mh- 2mo agoWorth mentioning also that DeepSeek is the only provider in OpenRouter that was disabled-by-default until I enabled a setting: Allow paid endpoints that train on request data.
- afro88 2mo ago> The beauty of intelligence at this cost (even if it's not SOTA) is that it opens a whole bunch of new use cases. Test failure in CI? Have the bot automatically propose a fix, its cheap enough that you can discard it w/h issues. Test coverage too low? Auto generate tests on CI for every pull-requests! Monitoring server logs, continuous security audits and investigating every received exception now becomes possible. I don't think this is the win you think it is. It's amazing that this is possible, but it introduces so much human overhead that you can drown in reviews and it can effectively slow you down more than a quick check and fix yourself. The models need to get a lot more consistent in what they can and can't do before you can automate this stuff and only check the things you know the model isn't good at
- frogperson 2mo agoThe pricing was awesome, but deepseek just sent out emails warning of a large price increase.
- ycui7 2mo agoit is funny when people say i am struggling to spend money.
- eru 2mo ago> It would impress me if someone could burn that amount with "normal" usage. Even when running multiple sessions. What's normal usage? I mean, Kimi is already really keen to spin of lots of subagents, and DeepSeep can probably do the same? > The beauty of intelligence at this cost (even if it's not SOTA) is that it opens a whole bunch of new use cases. Test failure in CI? Have the bot automatically propose a fix, its cheap enough that you can discard it w/h issues. Yes, though I did that even with Claude (on my employer's token budget). The agents are great at doing the gruntwork of chasing down the reproduction of flaky tests, too. They need some hand holding at first, but the guidelines are usually re-usable per project. (Claude specifically needs to be told to really concentrate on reproduction, and not eagerly start fixing the flake: if you don't have a reliable reproduction, you have no clue whether your fix actually fixes anything.)
- Snowfield9571 2mo agoYou should try with reasonix. It is designed to maximize cache hits. It seems less featurefull in its current state than open code and omp but I am getting a 99% cache hit with reasonix making my costs insanely cheap.
- trollbridge 2mo agoI kept running into it looping two nights ago or else getting trapped in a reasoning loop it couldn’t escape from. Switching to Pro helped, but I ultimately had to use GLM-5.2 to recover my session. (GPT-5.6-Sol’s cybersecurity guardrails went off since the problem I was trying to fix involved a race condition where it would segfault and the words “stack frame” in my session made it decide I was being naughty. Yet another reason not to use American models…) Another time, Flash started trying to make tool calls by just calling bash and catting the tool call to stdout. Then it started running echo xx for every two letter UNIX command it could think of: mv, cp, etc and the it dug into uv, ty, and jj
- bronson 2mo agoWhat was your prompt? If something benign, then it sounds like your harness has an issue with its tool calling that the agent is atrying to work around.
- trollbridge 2mo agoIt was simply repeating the same text across 50-100 words over and over. MiMo UltraSpeed periodically does this, but seeing Flash do it was a new surprise. (The agent eventually detects the loop and kills it.)
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- ec109685 2mo agoI try to use all the intelligence I can, which fable, opus and then second tier models. I am not sure why you wouldn't want to use the SOTA models unless speed is a concern. Otherwise you are leaving quality on the table.
- twotwotwo 2mo agoHard to make big predictions, but it sure looks like at least this level of capability is going to be available in the open and relatively cheap to run. The 'floor' has gone up: today's model a bit behind SOTA is like model releases that were blowing people's minds a few months ago. Compared to, say, DS R1, this is far out stuff. This, Luna, and (if it's good in practice) Laguna S are also fast and light not just cheap. And, as happened before, DeepSeek's first but other open model makers likely follow. And a small, fast model taking small steps is...fun? More like working with code.