12 ms·
GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex
https://x.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575 https://x.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575, https://xcancel.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575 https://xcancel.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575
- postalcoder 3mo agoI wonder if it's related that that OpenAI has found a way to cut inference costs by half, according to The Information. https://www.theinformation.com/newsletters/ai-agenda/openai-discovers-new-way-cut-inference-costs-half https://www.theinformation.com/newsletters/ai-agenda/openai-...
- drivebyhooting 3mo agoWhat’s the technique? And did they buy it from thinking machines?
- turtleyacht 3mo agoMaybe cache similar answers from others. Surprised if this is not already being done.
- nimchimpsky 3mo ago[dead]
- wahnfrieden 3mo agoLike google search, this does not work because of how common long tail use is. What you think could be a big chunk, is more likely to be a fraction of a percent of queries. And what use is similar query caching - so you (very often! if actually cost effective, maybe half the time) get a response to a query that was different from yours. Including for when you have a lot of context input already. You’re going to get trash. If it were constrained to only very common initial prompts, and somehow the long tail did not actually dominate as it does with Google search (can't find the reference at the moment but it was a famous article some years ago), it also wouldn't account for serious enough cost savings. Long context is what is expensive. This might only work in constrained domains like customer service where there’s tolerance for generic answers and escalation paths. For technical work? For general purpose use, with secretly canned responses charged at full price?
- turtleyacht 3mo agoPlease pardon the pure speculation incoming. Yes, caching the answer doesn't seem useful. Caching the progression, the graph, may be. This is similar to making code changes with ed(1) instead of editing in vi. The transform script(s) are cached and can be played back or adjusted. Surely for some breadth of question inputs, they map more often to similar answers--but not static answers; instead, evented edits. It's nearly untenable for a human to keep private edit scripts to generate code changes. The extra steps for custom regex, essentially one-offs for a shared codebase, is inefficient. But maybe not to an LLM.
- wahnfrieden 3mo agoI don't understand how this fits LLM architecture at all
- dools 3mo agoI would be very surprised if they hadn’t sorted out some form of shared KV caching
- wahnfrieden 3mo agoI wouldn't
- ewild 3mo agopeople really dont understand how the transformer works to think this is something trivial if possible at all
- dools 3mo agoOrly? “ Automatic Prefix Caching (APC in short) caches the KV cache of existing queries, so that a new query can directly reuse the KV cache if it shares the same prefix with one of the existing queries, allowing the new query to skip the computation of the shared part.” https://docs.vllm.ai/en/latest/features/automatic_prefix_caching/ https://docs.vllm.ai/en/latest/features/automatic_prefix_cac...
- simpleintheory 3mo agoThey're already doing this under the name "fast answers" [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/comments/1stsxvc/new_feature_fast_answers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/comments/1stsxvc/new_feature...
- layla5alive 3mo agohttps://archive.ph/NEwVz https://archive.ph/NEwVz "However, these inference optimizations, which rival Anthropic refers to as “compute multipliers,” are a big focus for all the labs. Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei has been publicly talking about the concept since at least mid-2023, when he said on a podcast that the company limits “the number of people who are aware of a given compute multiplier” because it could give other AI labs a leg up if they were to be able to replicate them. (Compute multipliers can also refer to efficiency optimizations in the model-training phase.)" Yes, on a world with finite resources where your industry is singlehandedly siphoning ALL THE RESOURCES - hoard general efficiency optimizations and treat them as trade secrets - winning is all that matters, normal people and other species and the planet be damned. Everything I hear about Dario these days makes me like him less and less. He sure did seem to speed run the 'tech leader with scruples' to 'tech villain' path! I guess all the cycles are compressing as we approach the singularity..
- razodactyl 3mo agoNot sure I know where I fall regarding your point: Yes to trade secrets, but also science and AI should be for the good of all. OpenAI seems to be trading roles back with Anthropic becoming misanthropic. I hope they both start heading in the direction of how the AI field was prior to LLMs. Collaboration and benefit for all should always be the primary motivator.
- georgemcbay 3mo ago> Collaboration and benefit for all should always be the primary motivator. Of all the things to never happen, this is never going to happen the most. That train left the station for good once hundreds of billions to trillions of dollars were involved. On the bright side, in the long run I suspect the vast majority of the value of AI will not be captured by the model making labs and the vast investments in them are going to implode, so...
- fragmede 3mo agoimplode, how?
- minimaxir 3mo agoSemi-related, has anyone noticed their GPT 5.5 usage in Codex being cut in half as of a couple days ago? I got a lot more mileage out of my session usage yesterday for the same workload.
- oxmom 3mo agoI've noticed less quota and 5.5 intelligence degrading. I didn't run the analysis like the post the other day, but I had noticed decreasing ability to complete tasks, more laziness. Switched back to 5.4 and it's much better. Maybe they're getting ready to launch 5.6? https://github.com/openai/codex/issues/30364 https://github.com/openai/codex/issues/30364
- neon_diogenes 3mo agoYes, I’ve noticed the same thing recently. Yesterday I burned through four 5-hour usage-limit resets in roughly four hours of wall-clock time. Same workflow, but it feels like I’m getting about half the mileage now, maybe even less. Guess that means Sol is dropping soon..
- torginus 3mo agoI wonder if AI labs are actively manipulating the narrative (and thus investor sentiment) by airing problems, and then solving them weeks to months later. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a lot of stuff figured out that is not included in the current version, just to make a steady product cycle with years of tangible improvements from one version to another (this is a common practice in the industry). For example, if inference isn't too expensive, but they figure out how to cut costs, then price goes down. After all, why pay OpenAI when a smaller datacenter can give you similar models? But, if they make a huge issue about how inference is too expensive, they engineer a crisis of their own creation - then, once they deploy the solution (which they might already have), then they're back on top.
- andai 3mo agoFor context: > Additionally, we’re introducing a new ultra mode that goes beyond the capabilities of a single agent by leveraging subagents to accelerate complex work. https://openai.com/index/previewing-gpt-5-6-sol/ https://openai.com/index/previewing-gpt-5-6-sol/ Can someone explain how this compares with Pro? I thought Pro was already something similar.
- ludamad 3mo agoI imagine this is something like Anthropic's dynamic workflows where a JS file is created to make a little AI harness on the spot
- andai 3mo agoWow, I hadn't heard of this! const audits = await pipeline(found.files, file => agent(`Audit ${file} for missing authentication checks.`, { label: file }), ) I asked Claude in the browser if it could do anything like that. It wrote a little frontend app that calls the Anthropic API (with fetch()), without including a key. I expected that to fail, but it worked! Apparently in the web chat (and also in Claude Code?[0] Though I haven't tried yet) they can call the Anthropic API and your subscription key gets auto-magicked into the requests somehow. Those are two separate things of course (aside from the key-injection) but I guess there's no reason it couldn't run completely in the front-end... hmm... [0] https://code.claude.com/docs/en/workflows https://code.claude.com/docs/en/workflows
- jaggederest 3mo agoI feel like it's not crazy to run Javascript in the browser... We've come so far I almost forgot where it all started.
- dlt713705 3mo agoPer latest available data, point of origin traces back approximately 13.8 billion years to a singular event designated "Big Bang". YMMV
- jquery 3mo agoWill individual subscribers have access?
- AussieWog93 3mo agoI would assume yes - their goal is to capture consumer subscribers. Claude are going to take Fable away, and they're going to swoop in and give it to us.
- kirubakaran 3mo agoThis is why I don't think Fable will be taken away. Not for long anyway.
- ashraymalhotra 3mo agoI love how competition is great for customers!
- llelouch 3mo agoStill avialable through the API. According to people that have tried both Fable nad 5.6, Fable is clearly better at coding. So i expect a lot of people to pay extra for it.
- kirubakaran 3mo agoBut if 5.6 is better than Opus, Claude Code Max plan users will switch to OpenAI Codex en masse. Using Fable at API pricing is expensive
- neon_diogenes 3mo agoYou’re not kidding. I ran out of Fable tokens a couple days ago, loaded up $70 just to finish the task we were working on, and burned through it in about 15 minutes. Aaaaand it’s gone.
- 3mo ago
- brcmthrowaway 3mo agoGamechanger..
- lawgimenez 3mo agoNo Twitter, what’s he responding to?
- asn0 3mo agohttps://xcancel.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575#m https://xcancel.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575#m
- asn0 3mo agoCorrected link https://xcancel.com/thsottiaux/status/2073933490513752151 https://xcancel.com/thsottiaux/status/2073933490513752151
- Cider9986 3mo agoCheck out LibRedirect or Predirect (MV3), it automatically redirects youtube, X, etc links to privacy-respecting frontends. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44344246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44344246 107 comments, 1 year ago.
- threecheese 3mo agoThe LibRedirect link in that post is 404
- Cider9986 3mo agohttps://github.com/libredirect/browser_extension https://github.com/libredirect/browser_extension
- ChrisArchitect 3mo agoRelated: Previewing GPT‑5.6 Sol: a next-generation model https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48689028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48689028
- behnamoh 3mo agoI still don't know why OpenAI doesn't put gpt-5.5-pro in Codex. It's one hell of a model and easily parallels Fable/Mythos. Sure, it'll use up your quota much faster but that's the price some users are willing to pay for absolutely high quality responses. I think gpt-5.5-pro runs 12x parallel gpt-5.5 agents behind the scene and uses OpenAI's secret sauce to synthesize their answers into one insanely good response.
- aetherspawn 3mo agoIs it as good as Fable..? Fable is the first model that mostly writes without the AI slop format for me, and so I can comfortably actually copy and paste most of what it spits out. OpenAI models have always been the worst in my experience for verbose, slop formatted responses, with each generation increasing in sloppiness.
- behnamoh 3mo ago> Fable is the first model that mostly writes without the AI slop format for me I'm not that impressed by Fable's writing to be honest, still has the AI giveaways like em dash.
- hn_user2 3mo agoHumans use em dash as well. I hate that I have had to remove it from my writing style because people assume it’s AI generated. But I think that ship has sailed. I’ll have to do without now.
- breezybottom 3mo agoParentheses usually read better anyway.
- CuriouslyC 3mo agoParens are ok for short asides (like this) but unreadable for longer asides and not usable for compound sentences like the emdash. Unfortunately, neither ellipses nor semicolons can exactly replace the compounding ability of the emdash, I find the best option without it is often to just split a sentence in two.
- asn0 3mo agoThe full conversation https://xcancel.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575#m https://xcancel.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575#m
- OutOfHere 3mo ago[flagged]
- timcobb 3mo agoare you, by any chance, a bot?
- OutOfHere 3mo agoNot at all. I was controlling the browser myself as a human, not via any bot.
- timcobb 3mo agoSorry this was a stupid joke
- kzrdude 3mo agoUnfortunately, Firefox is often put in the bot bucket nowadays. Not sure what happened here. It might be because of aggressive privacy settings that are flagged as unusual or suspicious.
- Cider9986 3mo agohttps://nitter.net/thsottiaux/status/2073933490513752151 https://nitter.net/thsottiaux/status/2073933490513752151
- kshri24 3mo agoRemove the #m at end of the link. That's causing the redirect. Here is a cleaner link: https://xcancel.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575 https://xcancel.com/haider1/status/2073695124220006575
- timcobb 3mo agowhen will it be available? do we know? I don't have X, not sure if the thread mentions it.
- throw394042 3mo agoI'm working in large US corporation. And I see that I already have access to 5.6-Sol Ultra on my corporate account. I haven't really used it yet. 2 months ago management was showing us scoreboards, praising leaders who used most tokens. Last few weeks, we're getting weekly emails, telling us that whenever we can - we should use cheaper models, and that we should watch the page which shows our tokens usage.
- noduerme 3mo agoThat's kinda hilarious. Pretty soon they might just ask people to write code themselves.
- imhoguy 3mo agooh no! what about all these demos which product management vibe coded?
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- wjnc 3mo agoI’m in Finance and learned pretty quickly that to point out the implicit future cost raises based on the cost the LLM-providers need to recoup was unpopular at best (STFU better describes the situation). Running full force into a bear trap.
- OtomotO 3mo agoThe sad part is that you work in FINANCE of all things and this happens there. Like: What competence do decision makers in FINANCE have, when they are this oblivious to economics?
- noduerme 3mo agoA better question would be how anyone who thinks about economic fundamentals could get a job in finance (or stay in it). [no offense intended to the parent post, I'm on their side]
- martin_drapeau 3mo agoRecently, I've been so eager to get new model releases in Codex. I'm hooked. I hope this accelerates development. Shows how dependant I have become to Codex.
- jvdsf 3mo ago[flagged]
- bagol 3mo agoYou.
- jvdsf 3mo ago[flagged]
- villgax 3mo agoAll these names mean squat
- xcjsam 3mo agoWill it have similar limited access like Fable? It is an interesting timeline, as general access for Fable (without using extra credits) is coming to an end :(
- imhoguy 3mo agoIt is like with drug dealers, you get some free dose, then cheap one, then you pay an arm and a leg. Somebody has to finaly pay for these heaps of accelerator hardware.
- jocelyner 3mo ago[dead]
- tw1984 3mo agothey better get that out fast, it will become totally meaningless when the next GLM gets there first. more competition is always good for consumers.
- internet2000 3mo agoHope this forces Anthropic to be less stingy with Fable.
- jascha_eng 3mo agoNot including their best model in a max subscription would otherwise be truly a good reason for once to consider going back to openai for me. I'll at least try it.
- sebra 3mo agoAt least Anthropic have a max subscription for corporate. Codex is only pay-as-you-go pricing beyond the base plan. Hence I'm stuck with Opus for work for the foreseeable future.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago> Codex is only pay-as-you-go pricing beyond the base plan I don't think so, I'm on a ~$200 subscription (guessing that counts as way beyond "base plan") and have no pay-as-you-go pricing at all, using the OpenAI APIs would be way too expensive for me.
- NorthSouthNorth 3mo agoFor corporate * You can't use sub pricing with orgs w/ OpenAI.
- jascha_eng 3mo agoApparently not? At least our it guy said after 150 people or so you have to pay for enterprise which is pay per token for everyone.
- carljungslabtek 3mo agoThis is referring to the Business plan I think (used to be called Teams or something). The problem is that there are two types of seats: normal and codex only. Codex only gets billed at API prices. The normal seats are more like a normal subscription, but their codex limits were LESS than a $20 subscription last time I checked (it used to be the same or more but they reduced it when they introduced the codex only seats).
- gigatexal 3mo agoI’m all in on Anthropic. How good is frontier openAI models for coding and things?
- throwaway27448 3mo agoBruh when did understanding chatbots become like following pokemon? Wtf does any of this this mean. Tf is sol? Tf is ultra? Tf is codex? Tf happened to descriptive nomenclature?
- chkmr 3mo agoMaybe you jest, but I'll bite. > Tf is sol? It's a proper noun: the name given to their latest and greatest model. Means "Sun" in Latin. Similar to how Anthropic has been naming its models Fable, Opus, Sonnet etc. Their other models are called Terra (Latin: Earth) and Luna (Latin: Moon) [0]. > Tf is ultra? The name of the "harness" around the model. It'll use deeper thinking, subagents and all that jazz in response to a prompt. Other options include max, high, medium etc I suppose. > Tf is codex? "Coding agent" similar to Claude Code [1], something with a more descriptive name. > Tf happened to descriptive nomenclature? Something like GLM-4-32B-0414-128K (not made up [2]) doesn't quite roll off the tongue I suppose. [0]: https://openai.com/index/previewing-gpt-5-6-sol/ https://openai.com/index/previewing-gpt-5-6-sol/ [1]: https://openai.com/codex/ https://openai.com/codex/ [2]: https://docs.z.ai/guides/llm/glm-4-32b-0414-128k https://docs.z.ai/guides/llm/glm-4-32b-0414-128k
- throwaway27448 3mo agoOf course I understand all this, but why the cuteness? Why not just say "<whatever the hell sol is supposed to imply> 2 agent? > Something like GLM-4-32B-0414-128K (not made up [2]) doesn't quite roll off the tongue I suppose. Surely it would sell better though if they could communicate what they're selling? > Coding agent" similar to Claude Code [1], something with a more descriptive name. Does this really need branding at all? Surely claude should sell itself if it can work as an agent. And if it is a specific model, what tasks is it trained to do? can we see the fucking training to make this money worth it? Or am I just another sucker buying nikes? All of this hand waving makes me nauseated. People should buy value, not vibes.
- cbg0 3mo agoIt's a post on twitter, not a press release.
- patentlyze 3mo agoNice! It never made sense to me that Pro Extended wasn't in the Codex app.
- jj0jj0 3mo ago[dead]
- WhereIsTheTruth 3mo agoI can see they have inherited their poor product naming from Microslop
- luciana1u 3mo ago[flagged]
- finecode 3mo ago[flagged]
- throwaw12 3mo agoHas anyone already tried 5.6 Sol in their day to day coding/development activities? How does it compare to GPT-5.5?
- embedding-shape 3mo agoHas it been released yet? I'm not seeing GPT 5.6 anywhere in the selectors, nor any announcement about it, but you're talking about it as it's already been released?
- MallocVoidstar 3mo agoThere's something like 20 companies with access.
- embedding-shape 3mo agoIsn't it like 99% sure all those companies got that access to it together with NDAs and other goodies?
- MallocVoidstar 3mo agoSome of them will publicly break it for whatever reason, an NVIDIA engineer (@blelbach) recently made some posts on X about his results using 5.6 Sol Ultra to optimize stuff and then deleted them shortly after (presumably got yelled at).
- Szpadel 3mo agothere seems to be very big misunderstanding about what the "ultra" is, so let me explain it basing on the codex source code: it's similar to Claude code ultracode. there is no ultra effort level implemented on the backend. it's just alias in the codex to max effort setting and single line addition to prompt to use subagents proactively. that's all as far as we know pro models work differently. for once those are backend implementations and they probably run multiple parallel reasonings for any chunk and use some judgement model to pick best version as persistent one. but that's what I believe is most popular guess, because this is openai secret sauce. there is still no way to use pro models from codex, or at leat so far there is no trace of it anywhere.
- Szpadel 3mo agosources for easy confirmation: https://github.com/openai/codex/blob/98d28aab54ed86714901b6619400598598876dd0/codex-rs/core/src/session/multi_agents.rs#L53 https://github.com/openai/codex/blob/98d28aab54ed86714901b66... https://github.com/openai/codex/blob/98d28aab54ed86714901b6619400598598876dd0/codex-rs/core/src/client.rs#L172 https://github.com/openai/codex/blob/98d28aab54ed86714901b66... https://github.com/openai/codex/blob/98d28aab54ed86714901b6619400598598876dd0/codex-rs/core/src/context/multi_agent_mode_instructions.rs#L7 https://github.com/openai/codex/blob/98d28aab54ed86714901b66...
- cactusplant7374 3mo agoVery strange because in the TerminalBench benchmark Ultra does better than Sol. They didn’t add the reasoning level to the chart.
- smcleod 3mo agoultracode in Claude Code kicks off a dynamic workflow.
- Implicated 3mo agoIt's similar in that it also pins you at xhigh effort _combined_ with the workflows (which one might say isn't far off from proactive use of agents)
- cresting 3mo agoWhich will be the uses cases for this model?
- elAhmo 3mo agoBack to terrible naming from Open AI.
- jayzer01 3mo agoAre people excited about the capabilities of 5.6 over competing LLMs?
- shevy-java 3mo agoThey really try to force everyone into AI. Next logical step: mandatory age sniffing but it can only be done if you have AI. Those not complying will be denied access to the www.
- silversurfer863 3mo agocan't wait. been maxing Fable out, if Sol Ultra turns out to be as good and in Codex - that's a paradigm shift
- rh94 3mo agoI’m really looking forward to see non contaminated benchmarks. In this space its obvious that every day is just another day of a race. Cross fingers we get better opus for lower price
- bestony 3mo agoCompetition is still needed to allow us users to make better use of these good models.
- yeychenne 3mo ago[flagged]
- elAhmo 3mo agoThis is such a sad state of the industry that a reply to a tweet is now considered like an announcement by the company. No context, nothing, just a title and a random link to a tweet, which has a seemingly relevant response from someone who works at OpenAI I guess.
- matheusmoreira 3mo agoHope they release Sol on their subscription tiers. That'll make me switch away from Anthropic to OpenAI.
- sanky369 3mo ago[dead]