28 ms·

The MacBook Neo

• voy707 7mo ago
  RIP Microslop
• jackhalford 7mo ago
  > Given Apple's historically very premium pricing, launching such an affordable product is certainly a shock to the entire market No? Apple has been delivering way cheaper laptops ever since M1, this one is just even cheaper. I thought PC execs were asleep at the wheel but not this bad.
  • alwillis 7mo ago
    > Apple has been delivering way cheaper laptops ever since M1 I wouldn’t "way cheaper". A baseline Neo with 256GB SSD is $599 vs the first M1 MacBook Air with 256GB SSD was $999 ($1,251.09 in 2026 dollars) A Neo with 512GB SSD is $699 vs the M1 MacBook Air with 512GB SSD was $1249--that's $1,568.38 in 2026 dollars. So this is a big deal; the Neo is the first Apple Silicon MacBook where the starting price is less than $999.
    • ndiddy 7mo ago
      Apple sold the the base model M1 Macbook Air through Walmart for $600 between when they stopped selling it directly up to early this year. It looks like this computer is about as performant as that one, so I guess they started to have trouble sourcing components and came up with the Neo as their replacement.
      • alwillis 7mo ago
        I know that Walmart and Costco sold discounted M1 MacBook Airs, which why I used introductory prices. > so I guess they started to have trouble sourcing components and came up with the Neo as their replacement. There’s no indication Apple had any issues with getting components; they’re have problems with sourcing more expensive components. Apple tends to be very deliberate with products; this isn’t a replacement for something else. In fact, there was an article stating unlike some other laptop manufacturers, Apple’s prices aren’t expected to rise because their buying power and having contracts in place [1]. A low-cost MacBook using an iPhone process has been rumored for at least a year. [1]: https://www.macrumors.com/2026/03/10/apple-holds-edge-laptop-prices-increase/ https://www.macrumors.com/2026/03/10/apple-holds-edge-laptop...
      • bombcar 7mo ago
        It's pretty obvious to me that the Walmart Wonder sold better than they expected, and they wanted to make it widely available.
        • alwillis 7mo ago
          I’m sure Apple has wanted to create a low-cost Mac laptop (the base Mac mini was already $499) for a long time, regardless of what previous models have done. They waited until they could do it in alignment with Apple’s brand, going back to Steve Jobs saying during the netbook hysteria: “We don’t know how to build a sub-$500 computer that is not a piece of junk. [1]” And to their credit the Mac Neo is not a piece of junk. [1]: https:http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/blogs/21bits-read-my-1677.html http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/21/blogs/21bits-read-m...
      • NetMageSCW 7mo ago
        That was a late run for the US only. This is a mainstream product for the world.
      • TMWNN 7mo ago
        >Apple sold the the base model M1 Macbook Air through Walmart for $600 between when they stopped selling it directly up to early this year. I took advantage of this after the fact. I bought a pristine open box M1 from VIPoutlet (Walmart's closeout brand, as I understand it) on Walmart last month for ~$350 as a backup computer.[1] The Neo reinforced the wisdom of my purchase, as M1 has slightly better specs for less money. [1] If the M4 Pro MacBook I am typing this on needs repair, I will use the M1 with a bootable clone of the M4's drive made with SuperDuper!.
  • stetrain 7mo ago
    This product effectively cuts the entry price for a new model Mac laptop in half. The cheapest current-generation MacBook has been $999 or above for a very long time, even back to the iBook days. Yes, Apple has offered discounted prices by continuing to sell older models or offer straight discount sales via third party retailers. But I expect that will continue here too. This is $599 MSRP at Apple but will probably be $499 via the usual retailers by the end of 2026. That's a bit different than continuing to sell a 5-year-old model at a discount.
• scuff3d 7mo ago
  "Of course, it's not that it cannot do all the work, but considering user experience and those hardware limitations, the experience, I think, differs significantly from mainstream products..." I worked in retail for a decade, a lot of that was selling computers. The vast majority of what people buy computers for could be done a toaster. You don't exactly need top end specs to browse the internet, reply to emails, and write the occasional document.
  • vrighter 7mo ago
    electron...
  • red-iron-pine 7mo ago
    the average user could probably do most of their computing on a $150 cell phone and a raspberry pi 4. gaming is a different beast, but there are xboxes, ps5s, steam boxen, etc.
    • scuff3d 7mo ago
      Exactly. That's why the comment was seemed arranged to me. For the most part, there's gamers/editors and a few other groups who need a lot of horsepower. They're generally gonna have decent hardware. Then there's everyone else, who wouldn't notice a difference regardless of hardware (to a point). There just isn't a whole lot of middle ground.
• dagmx 7mo ago
  I was watching this video and it’s pretty impressive what can be done on this spec machine. https://youtu.be/d-VOt9559Gk?si=tYlDstnaxtQWoJ88 https://youtu.be/d-VOt9559Gk?si=tYlDstnaxtQWoJ88 He opens 50+ apps at once while working in Final Cut and Lightroom. Obviously anyone doing those full time would benefit from more resources but I think this is going to be enough for a big chunk of the population, and will be more appealing than the windows alternatives.
  • justsomehnguy 7mo ago
    I still remember how Apple fans run around singing praises what their 8GB M1 absolutely kicked ass of Intel Macs with 16GB (and even more). Only to quietly replace them with a model with more RAM next year or some even way earlier than that. I can open even 500 apps on any laptop. This is what swap for. But with only 8GB you are getting into the swap territory very fast because you need almost half of it for the OS and video memory. Eg: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47272996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47272996
    • thejazzman 7mo ago
      It did/does absolutely kick ass and 16GB is better. They’re not at odds with each other :D
    • dagmx 7mo ago
      More RAM is better. But doesn’t negate that it’s still very usable. Did you even bother to watch the video for responsiveness before commenting? Also it was a couple years after the transition to arm that Apple bumped the minimum RAM they shipped their laptops with.
      • justsomehnguy 7mo ago
        > But doesn’t negate that it’s still very usable. As a glorified terminal? Sure. > Did you even bother to watch the video for responsiveness before commenting? I did, now what? > Also it was a couple years after the transition to arm t Hello, we are talking about Neo with the same 8GB.
• rurban 7mo ago
  I've used an MacAir with 8GB ram starting at 700€ for years, writing and testing compilers. This was until the macOS and butterfly keyboard desasters, which made me go back to 450€ ThinkPad Ryzen laptops with Fedora, upgraded to 64GB RAM. My wife is using a fancy new air for 2500€, which is way better. But I still think of the good old MacAir times, they'll try to bring up again.
  • yeukhon 7mo ago
    I never have problems with butterfly keyboard. It felt good. Not sure why you guys have such big hate against it.
• frankacter 7mo ago
  I’m a bit confused about who this article is really for. The MacBook Neo starts at $600 so when I read: “MacBook Neo is built on an iPhone chip—the A18 Pro. It’s far less capable of running intensive tasks than any of Apple’s M‑series chips or any moderately powered Intel or AMD processor.” and that: “It’s merely the right kind of performance for anybody who wants to browse the internet or stream video.” ...at this price point there are plenty of alternatives for laptops with better performance and specs. For example, you can get a 15.6" Ryzen 7 5700U laptop with 32GB RAM and a 1TB SSD for less than the “unbeatable” price of the Neo: https://www.amazon.com/NIAKUN-Computer-Processor-Graphics-Keyboard/dp/B0DDXSGLZM https://www.amazon.com/NIAKUN-Computer-Processor-Graphics-Ke... Or a 15.6" Intel Core i7‑1255U/12650H laptop with 16GB RAM and a 1TB SSD in a similar price range: https://www.amazon.com/HP-Laptop-High-Performance-i7-1255U-4-7GHz/dp/B0G6763MD2/ https://www.amazon.com/HP-Laptop-High-Performance-i7-1255U-4... Both of these offer: * A more traditional laptop CPU * 2–4× the memory * 2-4× the storage (1TB vs 256GB base on the Neo) Standard HDMI/USB‑C video out for external displays So I can definitely see the appeal of the Neo for people who just want an inexpensive way into macOS, but the claim that “no other budget laptop can compete.” doesn't track. Maybe it should have been "The least expensive Macbook yet, but that comes with significant downsides."
  • sockaddr 7mo ago
    Your amazon links are broken. But I think you're missing the point of this thing. This isn't for people that really even care about performance. It's for people that want a laptop that works with their iPhone, does all the things their school needs them to do in a browser, and doesn't come with a complete dogsh*t OS, and isn't of dubious quality like an HP or a "NIAKUN", whatever that is. Now the color options, that's a tragedy.
    • frankacter 7mo ago
      >Your amazon links are broken. Thanks. Fixed. >This isn't for people that really even care about performance. It's for people that want a laptop that works with their iPhone That was my conclusion to my comment in my original. The title of "no other budget laptop can compete" is not just sensationalized, it is factually wrong. It should have been "the least expensive macbook yet comes with a catch"
• GeekyBear 7mo ago
  PC Magazine came to the same conclusion: > Apple pulled off what I thought wasn't possible. The MacBook Neo is poised to set the budget-laptop world on fire as a $599 system that's better-built and sharper than anything else at or below its price. https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/apple-macbook-neo https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/apple-macbook-neo Similar to the Verge: > even the cheapest MacBook Neo is good enough to be the go-to Apple laptop for a lot of people. Actually, not just the go-to Apple laptop; the Neo’s hardware simultaneously embarrasses an entire class of affordable (and even far pricier) Windows laptops, as well as just about any Chromebook. And the thing runs on an iPhone chip. https://www.theverge.com/tech/891741/apple-macbook-neo-a18-pro-review https://www.theverge.com/tech/891741/apple-macbook-neo-a18-p...
  • hulitu 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    • bdbdbdb 7mo ago
      *Gb not Mb
    • lukevp 7mo ago
      What better options?
    • akagr 7mo ago
      Go beyond the specs, though. Which windows laptops have similar combination of all metal build with tight tolerances, a display hinge that doesn’t wobble, a nice keyboard and even close to similar feeling trackpad at this 600 dollar price point? Most non haptic trackpads are dive board designs where you can only press the lower part of it because they hinge from the top, whereas as Neo’s trackpad is completely floating and can be pressed even on the very top. Also, one of main target audiences - students - can have this for much cheaper with education pricing. If quality and in-hand feel matters to you at all, you’ll be hard pressed to find a more well rounded laptop than a MacBook at any price point.
      • 7mo ago
• shrubble 7mo ago
  It’s really an iPad running MacOS instead of iOS; the question is whether people want that. I’m not the target market since I require Linux compatibility but I realize that is not a necessity in the market.
  • musicale 7mo ago
    The iPad has a touchscreen, supports Apple Pencil, etc. but the observation that the iPad has been Apple's "budget" computing platform for a while is spot on. It is interesting that they have reformulated it into a Mac laptop (and also that A-series iPhone chips offer M1-class performance.) Fortunately/unfortunately for Apple, the M1 MacBook Air from 2020 is still a great laptop.
  • exidy 7mo ago
    I don't think it's a useful distinction. I wouldn't describe my car as "really a vacuum cleaner", despite them both having an electric motor. The form factor is the defining characteristic, because that informs how people use it. The CPU does not.
  • recursive 7mo ago
    Really an iPad running MacOS instead of iOS, with a built-in keyboard and touchpad, without a touch screen, multiple ports. In other words, indistinguishable from a laptop by virtually everyone. I don't even know what difference you might be referring to.
• pipeline_peak 7mo ago
  This feels like the first time Apple’s walled garden approach has paid off in the desktop arena. With a cheaper Windows alternative to the MacBook Neo, your options are inferior battery life with AMD 64, or Windows Arm’s inferior compatibility. I doubt Microsoft is holding developers hands when transitioning to Arm the way that Apple does. Not to mention they’ve been using their own chips.
  • happymellon 7mo ago
    > I doubt Microsoft is holding developers hands when transitioning to Arm the way that Apple does. While this is key it has nothing to do with the walled garden approach, and everything to do with Microsoft's contempt for users of its platforms.
    • operatingthetan 7mo ago
      People may not be very happy with recent UI changes in Tahoe but it's still another universe compared to some the clunky Windows 2000-ish stuff still in Windows 11.
      • einr 7mo ago
        And what's worse, the clunky Windows 2000-ish stuff is the good stuff that works!
  • perfmode 7mo ago
    I think what you're describing is vertical integration rather than the walled garden specifically. The walled garden is the App Store restrictions, iMessage lock-in, that kind of thing. What made the Neo possible is that Apple controls the silicon, the OS, the firmware, and the industrial design as a single unit. They could put a phone chip in a laptop form factor and have it feel coherent because there's no seam between the hardware and software teams. The distinction matters because it changes what the lesson is for the rest of the industry. You don't need a walled garden to compete here. You need to own enough of the stack that you can make aggressive tradeoffs (like shipping 8GB and an A18 Pro) without everything falling apart at the integration boundaries. Microsoft can't do that because they don't make the hardware. Dell and Lenovo can't do that because they don't make the OS. Qualcomm can't do that because they don't control the software ecosystem. The one company that could theoretically pull this off is Google with ChromeOS on their own Tensor chips, and the fact that they haven't is probably the more interesting question than why Asus is shocked.
• pjmlp 7mo ago
  All these PC can't compete reviews are based on US prices, outside it is ridiculous expensive for a 8 GB laptop.
  • keyle 7mo ago
    Note that 8GB of ram on a Mac plays out a lot more different than 8GB on a PC. I work professionally on a Macbook Air 16GB now and I have quite a few docker images and services running bare metal, + browser, vscode etc. on top. Not a problem until I start loading up some LLMs. The paging works wonderfully well; an advantage of everything being fused. If anything, I'm much more bound by the CPU limitations and the eco-cores than the memory. On a PC, I wouldn't think about less than 32GB for a dev pc. If I had a fulltime gig programming C, I'd even say I could work on this A14 8GB device. Why not? It's as powerful as a 10 year old powerful machine; probably. Or in that ballpark.
    • pjmlp 7mo ago
      PC work just fine with 16 GB, that is coping with Apple limitations. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255765423?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255765423?sortBy=rank Why on Earth do I need a 32 GB PC?!? Turbo C also worked just fine with 640 KB in MS-DOS, but then again MS-DOS wasn't full of Electron crap.
      • foldr 7mo ago
        There are lots of reviews on YouTube of people demoing the performance of the Neo in typical non-power-user usage scenarios (multiple apps, lots of browser tabs, etc.) It works perfectly fine for typical consumer usage.
    • Rohansi 7mo ago
      > The paging works wonderfully well; an advantage of everything being fused. I think it's more of a combination of 1) lower baseline usage by macOS and 2) your swap is guaranteed to be on a fast SSD (1.5+ GB/s read/write). Also when you buy a budget PC they cut back on everything, while you get roughly the same SoC across the board for Mac (give or take a few cores). There are absolutely horrid CPUs, GPUs, and SSDs still being released today! If you cut your budget too much you can get a slow E-core only CPU with a no name SSD that's barely faster than a HDD. Hopefully the MacBook Neo puts pressure on manufacturers to do better.
• shablulman 7mo ago
  [flagged]
• bob1029 7mo ago
  Looks like the PC laptop market is going to have to stop being bad on purpose. I hope this causes significant pain for vendors like Dell, Microsoft and Asus. I don't see any way they can get out of this situation without seriously improving the UX of their products. Windows itself is likely implicated here too.
• pupppet 7mo ago
  Microsoft will respond to this by furiously adding more garbage to Windows.
  • theshrike79 7mo ago
    "We need to put Copilot into more places!" - Satya Nadella most likely
  • bdbdbdb 7mo ago
    I've yet to meet anyone who wants AI added to anything. If they released a version of windows+office tomorrow that was "guaranteed free of AI" it would be their top seller
    • ryandrake 7mo ago
      But, then all Microsoft's top managers, who apparently have bonuses based on how much AI is shoved down our throats, wouldn't get those bonuses. Nobody's cares whether or not something is a top seller because their incentives are obviously aligned toward cramming AI.
  • commandersaki 7mo ago
    Needs more javascript for native functions in the OS.
    • cromka 7mo ago
      idk, Gnome is full of javascript and is snappy! Don't think it's the language itself, the bloat must come from elsewhere
• rf15 7mo ago
  Except for the bit that immediately killed it for us in the office: only one external display. Even if you close the lid. I dream of the day I can kick windows into the next bin, but this is the one thing that the Neo fails hard on, all other compromises would've made this a great remote dev machine.
  • red-iron-pine 7mo ago
    does the ~$400 consumer PC market -- which is what theyre aiming at -- need multiple external displays? my mom might need a 2nd monitor, but probably not. that's who they're chasing. my crappy business dell work computer can only do one too, but it comes with a docking station to do real multi-monitor
  • NetMageSCW 7mo ago
    So what $599 Windows laptop are you using with multiple external displays?
    • rf15 7mo ago
      Any shitty dell can support two external displays with a docking station. And I truly mean it when I say that for a second the Neo got me excited to drop Dell.
• NoPicklez 7mo ago
  As someone who buys Asus motherboards when he builds PC's, it hasn't been a shock for me as an owner of a Macbook for the last 18 years. I've been of the firm opinion for a very long time that Macbook's are the best productivity laptops and now even more so once Apple moved from Intel to their own M chips. Their entry level Macbook before the Neo you could buy and it would be a laptop that would see you for many many years.
  • vrighter 7mo ago
    all of my normal pcs served me well for many many years. They don't get slower naturally, it was windows getting ever more bloated. I put linux on an 8 year old computer and it just flies again
    • fxtentacle 7mo ago
      Fully agree. When I have to use Windows from time to time, I’m always surprised by how laggy the cursor feels even on hardware that can do 8K VR just fine.
  • jahnu 7mo ago
    2016-2019 was an awful blip but otherwise I agree
  • TacticalCoder 7mo ago
    > Their entry level Macbook before the Neo you could buy and it would be a laptop that would see you for many many years. I hope they fixed the ultra brittle screens of their Macbook lineup. I bought a MacBook Air M1 a few years ago and I've been royally pissed off when, after 13 months (one month out of warrant in my case/country) the "bendgate" hit me: the screen died overnight, without any reason (was fine the day before, woke up: screen dead. MacBook Air didn't move). Many people had the same happen to them and they called this the "bendgate" (except there was no "bend"). This prevented me from buying a MacBook M2, M3, M4 and now M5. Well... Unless I can be convinced that this time the screen isn't going to die overnight. Saddest thing of them all: I'm the kind of person to only ever use the laptop at home on my lap and never ever put it in a backpack (I don't even own a backpack).
• deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
• KingMachiavelli 7mo ago
  IMO the consumer PC industry is near an existential crisis. The big players are just awful at marketing; too many SKUs and models - it takes a paragraph to figure out how 2 Dell laptops from the same release year differ. The exact same specs will be in two different chassis designs. Additionally, you can’t count on the basic being correct. It takes a hour of research to know if the trackpad is not-awful, keyboard doesn’t suck, and display isn’t a 300nits POS unusable even in a bright room. You want the same performance as a MacBook Air without one of these fatal flaws? You’ll hand to spend $1500+ anyway so you save nothing. Then the OS is full of ads and pre-installed garbage “gaming-optimization-tool” or driver tools taking up 99% of a single core while being riddled with security holes.
  • hutattedonmyarm 7mo ago
    I recently helped a friend picking a new laptop. Just going through the options at the websites of manufacturers was a nightmare. Huge amount of choices, shitty filtering, separated into multiple product lines were I often enough had no idea what separated the lines from each other
    • drcongo 7mo ago
      If they're your friend, why didn't you just tell them to get a Mac?
      • gabrielhidasy 7mo ago
        Why would I inflict that to my friends?
      • retired 7mo ago
        15 years ago this comment would have been a troll. Nowadays it’s solid advice. The current Mac line-up is a step ahead of the competition. App compatibility is hardly an issue anymore with the exception of some very niche software.
        • 7mo ago
• gamblor956 7mo ago
  He wasn't referring to the build quality which is about average, or the ipad level performance. He was referring to the supply chain. The shock is that Apple was able to build something like this with current component costs.
  • BoredPositron 7mo ago
    Planning beyond the next quarter? That’s a rare level of foresight for most.
  • financetechbro 7mo ago
    “Average” build quality? All the reviews I’ve seen rage about the build quality of the Neo
    • gamblor956 7mo ago
      Yes, compared to other Apples, which fall apart if you look at them funny. The Apple Neo is only slightly better than an HP or Dell for the same price. But HP and Dell don't need to maintain a service center in every major city and shopping center. They make cheap devices that just work.
• smackeyacky 7mo ago
  My daughter just ordered one of these. She’s a student (not stem) and her ancient 8Gb MacBook Air with an intel processor was still serving well but the battery has become unuseable and her keyboard is becoming flaky. The Neo is such a perfect replacement and easier than fixing the Air.
  • ThePowerOfFuet 7mo ago
    The keyboard issue was probably caused by the battery, which can be replaced, and the keyboard would have likely returned to normal after the battery replacement. In fact, depending on the model, the battery replacement may well have also entailed replacing the whole top cover (including the keyboard).
    • smackeyacky 7mo ago
      Interesting I will look at replacing the battery if that’s a possibility. Thanks!
      • B1FF_PSUVM 7mo ago
        The Intel MacBook Air battery was very easy to swap, just opening the bottom lid. Amazon has kits for about 40 bucks with the two necessary screwdrivers included.
        • ThePowerOfFuet 7mo ago
          Don't buy lithium-ion batteries on Amazon. Especially not very large ones like in a laptop.
      • adastra22 7mo ago
        Just did this on a 2017 MacBook Air. Battery was cheap ($50?) and it was simple to do. Machine is working just fine now.
        • adastra22 7mo ago
• ExoticPearTree 7mo ago
  Maybe other manufacturers will actually stop making crappy hardware that feels like its taped together?
  • VerifiedReports 7mo ago
    More importantly, they need to find an alternative to Windows. A $10,000 computer wouldn't fix that dogshit.
    • ExoticPearTree 7mo ago
      There's really nothing in between. If ChromeOS would have been an alternative, maybe more Chromebooks would have been sold. It comes down to Microsoft not doubling down on "let's make Windows as annoying as possible" (with ads, with telemetry that can't be turned off).
      • fragmede 7mo ago
        Depends what you want to do. ChromeOS is pretty great at certain things.
  • MengerSponge 7mo ago
    Hardware is hard, and Apple's scale lets them make things that are nice while still maintaining their margins. A decade ago, but still relevant: https://beneinstein.com/no-you-cant-manufacture-that-like-apple-does-93bea02a3bbf https://beneinstein.com/no-you-cant-manufacture-that-like-ap...
    • ExoticPearTree 7mo ago
      Let me rephrase what I said: I do not expect everyone to be able to do Apple style quality hardware. But the build quality of a Thinkpad from 20 years ago I think is still doable.
      • MengerSponge 7mo ago
• VerifiedReports 7mo ago
  Windows is such an offensive, defect-ridden pile of shit now that every PC maker should be blaming Microsoft for their inability to compete with the Neo. I bought my parents Asus laptops years ago, and can't wait to replace them with a Neo. Microsoft has spurned and scorned users. Now it's time for computer makers to push back and reject its shit. I'd love to see a consortium of computer makers come together to refine a Linux distro that's consumer-friendly enough to oust Windows and compete with Mac OS.
  • nubinetwork 7mo ago
    Dell has been pushing Linux for like 20 years? I don't remember which distro, probably fedora or ubuntu...
    • BoredPositron 7mo ago
      It's an option for maybe 2 SKUs... hardly pushing anything.
      • ZiiS 7mo ago
        That you couldn't actual order; at least as a UK SME.
      • nubinetwork 7mo ago
        I count 4 desktops and 11 laptops. Sorry, try harder next time.
    • greatgib 7mo ago
      They have a very limited set of choices. I would have bought more if you were not too limited in term of choice in their inventory. At some point the XPS 13 dev edition was the almost perfect laptop. Then they ruined it with the following generations of it.
    • franktankbank 7mo ago
      I got an xps long time back that had the option to pay extra for ubuntu. I'm not going to pay to plug in a usb and I also get the joy of erasing a windows install from the face of this earth.
• svilen_dobrev 7mo ago
  maybe Apple is "subsidizing" this ? nudge/"help" people to join the party? trying to ride something around the windows-bullshitization , recent memory-prices etc..
  • deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
• bdbdbdb 7mo ago
  600 is a bargain for a MacBook, but I can't see the public windows users switching en masse. Most people who buy cheap windows laptops do so because 1) they need to replace a broken laptop and want to pay the lowest amount possible 2) they don't want to learn some new thing 600 might seem budget, but it's out of budget for most people. And my guess is PC manufacturers will retaliate against this by cutting prices just a little to drop under that 600 price point for mid range ryzens, with more ram and space. Any family members I've helped shop for computers only care about how much space it has, how cheap it is, and will it struggle to run things like the last one. As it sits the MacBook is more money for less gigabytes
  • lm28469 7mo ago
    > 600 might seem budget, but it's out of budget for most people. Out of budget for my parents but I'll pay the difference myself. It's just painful to see them use their pile of shit $300 laptop that can barely open a text editor, sounds like a jet engine and has about 45 minutes of battery life. The only haptic feedback they get if the entire fucking thing creaking as soon as you lightly touch it. They've been through at least 5 of them since I bought my 2015 mbp, which is still working fine in every aspects
    • tim333 7mo ago
      That's an important point - the been through 5 of them. The cost or running a $600 mac is probably similar to running $300 pc laptops that pack up.
      • MengerSponge 7mo ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
    • kreco 7mo ago
      The funny thing is that it would do the same for double the price. You need to spend a ridiculous amount of time on research because the producer itself is selling very different product (very different quality) from a year to another. I wish a "brand" would be consistant but it's not 99% of the time.
• cryptos 7mo ago
  Windows reputation is declining, so the operating system might be the actual crisis. Linux with modern desktops (e.g. Gnome 3) might fill the gap, but the market is far from broad adoption. Promoting and improving Linux desktop and apps would be a long endeavour, but betting only on Windows which degrades to a cloud and AI advertising surface might be fatal.
  • p_ing 7mo ago
    Windows 11 has 1 Billion+ installs. That's not a decline and hardly a crisis. That's a huge install base.
    • fsloth 7mo ago
      This. Ofc a huge chunk of that is in companies but I'm fairly sure there are at least two windows 11 machines per one mac in consumer segment as well.
      • halapro 7mo ago
        It's just momentum. You buy windows because you have windows. You buy windows because there's not really much of a choice. You have windows because you're not going out of your ways to reconfigure hundreds of laptops at your company just for your employees to be less comfortable with Linux. Now introduce a choice… and things might change. With the vast majority of software nowadays living in the browser, your OS matters less and less, especially for a business that buys machines for its employees.
        • fsloth 7mo ago
          As OS matters less that’s probably not going to entrench Microsoft less. Their relationship with OEM:s is not market based but a two way relationship. At this point I would not be surprised if MS started to subvent the PC manufacturers to favour Windows over Linux if that ever comes to that.
          • 7mo ago
• locallost 7mo ago
  Was my first thought also when I saw it. I honestly planned to ditch Macbooks before they released M1, but this hardware is just so much better than anything Intel or AMD can offer at least for laptops. For people that are not too demanding I've recommended Airs for a while, but this basically has the potential to destroy the entire midrange PC market. Some people will be reluctant to switch, but I don't think the OS is as important today as it was before. So much happens on the web anyway. edit: also on a tangent, Apple's pricing has become weird. It actually feels like it's a really good bang got the buck. Regular iPads are under 400 now, and they're just better than the competition. MacBook Pro is about the same price as it ever was, but it's just so much better than it was etc.
• JSR_FDED 7mo ago
  What's shocking is that this is a shock to the PC Industry.
• cromka 7mo ago
  Just imagine what Apple would do to the market if they also offered a full Linux support, but not Windows... They'd probably own some 70% of Linux market outright and also double its overall size overnight.
  • beAbU 7mo ago
    If apple came out with their own linux distro, with open drivers and a mainline kernel... A girl can dream!
    • pjmlp 7mo ago
      This path is already taken and it didn't sell Apple hardware in masses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MkLinux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MkLinux
      • beAbU 7mo ago
        MkLinux was first released in 1996, and discontinued in 2002. I would argue that things have changed significantly since then.
        • yfw 7mo ago
          Yeah liquid glass suckss
    • starkparker 7mo ago
      The memory that XNU and Darwin are technically open-source projects is a curse that brings one only suffering.
      • p_ing 7mo ago
        I would call them open access. Apple doesn't accept contributions.
        • 7mo ago
• ozlikethewizard 7mo ago
  When did $600 become budget?
  • thunderbong 7mo ago
    For existing Mac owners.
  • Schmerika 7mo ago
    Would you be surprised if I told you that $600 is slightly under 11 days of the average rent [0]? 0 - https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/
    • ozlikethewizard 7mo ago
      Is that more rents are insane though, british perspective but 600 ~ £450, £450 is still around a third of an average rent, but I'd consider a budget laptop those in the £2-350 range. For the average user £400+ (so $500+) is decidely midrange purely on the virtue that its the middle of the range for general use laptops (being £150-1000 really, anything more than that and you're entering decent gaming/workstation specs).
      • amenhotep 7mo ago
        Not to mention that it they are, naturally, going to convert $600 to £600.
    • dzhiurgis 7mo ago
      Are you comparing 11 days of utility vs 5+ years worth?
      • Schmerika 7mo ago
        I am comparing two things which cost the same. In a discussion about pricing. If your point was that it's crazy that 11 days of rent costs the same as a mid-range laptop, I completely agree. That's where we're at though.
• fxtentacle 7mo ago
  The legacy PC makers are lucky that Ubuntu doesn’t work on this, or else they’d face even more competition. By now, everyone hates Windows. And I’d wager some people hate it enough to be willing to switch to whatever works and is halfway ad-free.
  • joe_mamba 7mo ago
    >The legacy PC makers are lucky that Ubuntu doesn’t work on this If Linux would be able to be installed and fully working on this out of the box, then the laptop wouldn't cost 600 dollars. Apple profits from monetizing people tied to its iOS+MacOS ecosystem. If you're not gonna be a MacOS/iOS user, you're worthless to them and selling you a laptop for only 600 dollars is not good for business anymore.
    • NetMageSCW 7mo ago
      That’s never been true for Apple, and while possibly they are getting closer, it still isn’t true for Apple. They don’t sell anything at a loss.
      • joe_mamba 7mo ago
        >They don’t sell anything at a loss. How's your reading comprehension? Where did I say they sell at a loss? I said they want to monetize people inside their ecosystem.
• etothet 7mo ago
  “I’ll just say it: I think I’m done with iPads. Why bother when Apple is now making a crackerjack Mac laptop that starts at just $600?” I’m curious to see this machine in person, but I’d bet the an iPad is still the best large device in Apple’s ecosystem for anything that benefits from viewing in portrait mode.
  • bell-cot 7mo ago
    Portrait or landscape - if your use is dominated by looking at the screen and/or situations where it can't set it down (to use the KB), then the iPad is better. Assuming the software you need supports iPad, etc.
    • WillAdams 7mo ago
      Am I the only person who manually rotates a laptop screen to portrait, then holds it like a book to use thus?
      • rconti 7mo ago
        Quite possibly!
      • smartbit 7mo ago
        No, you’re not the only person. I use it to read news, blogs & hckrnews. Probably more than 2h per day. Often in an IKEA bamboo Bergenes, which I have several laying around the house, upside down with a usb-c cord charging it till 80%.
      • LtWorf 7mo ago
        Nope
      • wmwragg 7mo ago
        That sounds interesting, I might give it a go, but how do you rotate the screen, I can't see an option for it for the built in MacBook screen?
• calf 7mo ago
  "I wish Apple would make a MacBook that’s akin to the iPhone Air — crazy thin and surprisingly performant." I think a lot of us wish that! I'm struggling to pick either the Neo or the new iPad Air 13", the former for having MacOS, or the latter for light weight and light usage purposes. And come this fall pair whichever choice with an M5 mini at home.
• pragmatic 7mo ago
  But you’re stuck with MacOS. I can’t stand it and every update makes it worse. Been running popos abs everything I can and it’s petty nice. Installed it on a new LG Gram and everything works including fingerprint reader. Is my favorite laptop and my old Mac sits gathering dust,
  • Carstairs 7mo ago
    Yeah I got one from work. I was quite excited to get one as macos is supposed to be a paragon of design but after using it I'm so glad I didn't spend my own money on it as it's been a total disappointment. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't want to launch it off the roof.
    • FeloniousHam 7mo ago
      I use it everyday, I love it. Native unix, great apps and ecosystem.
      • drcongo 7mo ago
        It's amazing how often people who post on here about hating macOS have only just got a Mac for the first time and simply can't be bothered to learn, or hate that the keyboard shortcuts are different, or desperately want their OS level adverts back or something. It's lazy.
        • throw-the-towel 7mo ago
          Conversely, it's amusing how often do Apple people assume everyone else is Holding It Wtong (tm).
        • p_ing 7mo ago
          Been using macOS for years, even main it for both personal and work. It has a LOT of UX issues and requires many 3rd party tools to "fix" it. macOS has plenty of it's own OS adverts.
• ryandrake 7mo ago
  Not Asus, but I have a crappy Lenovo plastic laptop that was around that price range when new, and it's horrible. The hinges have so much resistance that the garbage display panel flexes when you try to open the lid. The junk trackpad is the size of a credit card, and requires some amount of force to actually pick up the fact that your finger is moving on it. The SDCard reader has failed twice (I'm on my third). It's just a piece of garbage and is even then it's about middle of the road when it comes to PC laptop quality. And outside of specific defects, (and this is what's endemic throughout the PC laptop ecosystem) the build quality just subjectively feels like it's barely held together with tape and glue. Like what you'd expect from a toy from an old cracker jack box. These OEMs have been shipping absolute trash for years, and it's about time the industry got a shock.
• deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
• ChrisArchitect 7mo ago
  Some more discussion on source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47332009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47332009
• MarkusWandel 7mo ago
  "It's a real Mac" - I get that! I remember a whole slew of inexpensive netbooks and the like that were technically Windows XP or Windows 7 machines, but came with a dumbed-down "starter" OS, not enough RAM, only a 32-bit CPU in an era were 64 bits were already becoming standard - the sum of which amounted to a barely usable imitation of a real Windows machine and as a result most of these became garage sale fodder pretty quickly.
  • tfehring 7mo ago
    I thought I was so clever for buying one of those things for like $190 and putting Lubuntu on it to make it usable. It worked - but the joke was still on me when it died a year later.
    • adastra22 7mo ago
      I put macOS on one of those, back in the good old hackintosh days. My wife used it as her daily driver for years.
  • DauntingPear7 7mo ago
    This is pretty much a repackaged M1 air from 2020, so it’s a competent machine
    • madeofpalk 7mo ago
      It's a repackaged iPhone 16. Also a competent machine.
  • znpy 7mo ago
    Oh i had one of those! The acer aspire one d250, with 1gb ram and 160gb of spinning rust. Once i got Debian, fluxbox and emacs on it i was able to do java development (with ant and the j2me toolkit). It was no big issue at all really, once you got linux on it. I must say, however: the web was much lighter back in the day and electron was still to be conceived. That’s very relevant.
  • hliyan 7mo ago
• dmitrygr 7mo ago
  > Because the Neo’s only camera-in-use indicator is in the menu bar, that seems obviously possible to circumvent via software. Not as obvious as the author implies. Apple has some docs out, IIRC, explaining how it is implemented. Worth a read...
  • NetMageSCW 7mo ago
    I can’t find where Apple really explains how it works.
    • dmitrygr 7mo ago
      https://randomaugustine.medium.com/on-apple-exclaves-d683a2c37194 https://randomaugustine.medium.com/on-apple-exclaves-d683a2c... https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/03/m4-ipad-pro-security-feature-apple-hasnt-told-anyone-about/ https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/03/m4-ipad-pro-security-feature-...
• timpera 7mo ago
  Does anyone know if it runs Windows 11 well? It seems like the Parallels app has not been tested by reviewers so far. This could make a great Windows machine.
  • giobox 7mo ago
    Given you only have 8gb of RAM to share between MacOS and the Windows VM, running a Windows 11 VM in Parallels is not a great usecase for this machine.
    • timpera 7mo ago
      Update: > Parallels Desktop runs on MacBook Neo, but the experience will depend on what you intend to run inside the virtual machine. > For light, occasional Windows use, like a legacy business tool, or a Windows-only utility, MacBook Neo may provide an acceptable experience. For CPU- or GPU-intensive Windows applications, this computer is not the right choice. https://kb.parallels.com/en/131100 https://kb.parallels.com/en/131100
• etchalon 7mo ago
  I look forward to the insane amount of bloatware HP will add to hit a 599 price point.
• nicoburns 7mo ago
  > The Neo charges faster if you plug it into a more powerful power adapter, in either USB-C port. The fact that the "usb 2" port works for (fast) charging is a big win. That means you can charge and use the fast usb port at the same time.
  • Someone 7mo ago
    > That means you can charge and use the fast usb port at the same time. For some use cases, you can do that with a single USB port, too. For example, a single USB cable connected to a monitor can both send video and charge the laptop.
    • nicoburns 7mo ago
      Sure, but it's certainly convenient to have two ports
  • blacksmith_tb 7mo ago
    I think that makes it a non-standard implementation though (I agree it's certainly more practical for the user), sounds like it's usb-c pd but with nerfed data, an odd choice that feels like it would actually have cost more to develop than just adding two identical usb-c 3.x ports...
    • nicoburns 7mo ago
      I suspect the limitation is that the SOC doesn't have the IO bandwidth to support two ports at usb 3 speeds (remembering that the SOC was designed for iphones which physically only have one port).
      • blacksmith_tb 7mo ago
        Ah, that's a good point, it would make sense (and be a small but real gotcha of using a phone CPU in a laptop).
      • eldaisfish 7mo ago
• Marazan 7mo ago
  It's good but it's no Asus eee901
  • so-cal-schemer 7mo ago
    Nor an Asus C101: RK3399 6-core ARM v8, Mali-T864 GPU, 1.9lb aluminum body, 10" IPS multitouch display, USB-C, compact chicklet-style keyboard -- or since it's a 2-in-1, flip it around and use your own portable ergo/ortholinear. coreboot/libreboot support... Bring out a refresh, Asus. https://www.asus.com/us/laptops/for-home/chromebook/asus-chromebook-flip-c101/ https://www.asus.com/us/laptops/for-home/chromebook/asus-chr...
• efficax 7mo ago
  Calling this a "content consumption" device seems wrong to me. Sure, it's not a professional laptop. You're going to have a bad time trying to run more than one Adobe creative suite app at once, or running the iOS emulator, but the chip in it is very powerful, and you can do real work on this laptop. I was even thinking of snagging one to use as a kind of thin client for dev accessing my big linux box via tailscale. It might be worthwhile to ensure that a web app you're developing will work on a less powerful machine without killing the browser, for example.
  • nicole_express 7mo ago
    I can definitely see why the Asus CEO would want to put it in that box, though.
  • thesuitonym 7mo ago
    Content consumption definitely seems like the wrong term, it seems perfectly cromulent for let's say a college student, or an executive.
  • nottorp 7mo ago
    If you ask me, all web devs should be forced to work on 4 Gb machines. This way you'll be able to run more than one "web app" at the same time on your devices.
    • whynotmaybe 7mo ago
      Should be forced to Test on a 4gb machine. A few years ago, I had two computers on my desk, my beefy dev with double screens and some good specs for the time and my test machine which was the standard given to every non dev, with a 1024x768 screen. I couldn't say to the boss that the code was ready until I tested it on that machine, which was sometimes eye opening and why a 2Mb HTML page wasn't a good idea.
    • dangus 7mo ago
      That's dumb. You can hardly even buy a machine with 4GB of memory on sale, at any price. If you are making products that depend on people spending money on them, you generally don't have to care about broke people with 15 year old computers.
• nottorp 7mo ago
  So the force touch stuff has also been available on Apple laptop trackpads? Damned if i ever noticed, and all my laptops since like 2013 have been Apple. I knew I had it on one of my previous iPhones but there it was an annoyance because I never knew what was going to happen on a touch.
  • nerdjon 7mo ago
    It is also a critical part of watchOS. I am still sad that they stopped putting it into iPhone, I think the tech is great and the watch really proves what can be done with it when it is a fundamental part of the hardware and the OS can be built around it. But we never had a situation that every compatible iPhone had force touch so everything that could be done with it had to work in other ways. I think the iPad made that even more complicated since I doubt we would have ever gotten it on a screen that large, if it would have even worked. As far as it being on the trackpad, it is honestly pretty wild when you realize it. It does an incredible job of faking feeling like it is actually moving. Was similar with the fake home button that some iPhone’s had for a little while.
    • losvedir 7mo ago
      I remember being totally flummoxed when I was trying to figure out why my trackpad wasn't clicking when the machine was off. I had no idea it wasn't a mechanical lever anymore!
    • nottorp 7mo ago
      > I am still sad that they stopped putting it into iPhone Well I'm not, because i only managed to register a force touch when i meant a normal touch :)
• system7rocks 7mo ago
  I notice they are sold out at MicroCenter - I was hoping to go look at one in person today.
• drnick1 7mo ago
  > You cannot buy an x86 PC laptop in the $600–700 price range that competes with the MacBook Neo on any metric — performance, display quality, audio quality, or build quality. And certainly not software quality. I would argue the opposite: while Apple hardware is generally excellent, it is the software that leaves to be desired. Apple has also been consistently pushing the industry in a dangerous direction (walled gardens with app stores, excessive power over developers and users). MacOS is also very behind Linux these days in terms of app compatibility (especially games). I won't be buying a Neo before a compatible Linux distro is confirmed. If the stock OS can't be replaced for one reason or another, it's dead on arrival as far as I am concerned.
  • Teever 7mo ago
    How do you reconcile the fact that that Apple will sell millions of these devices without a compatible Linux distribution shipping for years if ever with your claim about it being DOA? Like sure it’s DOA to you, but in what world does that really matter when it’s going to sell so well?
    • bigyabai 7mo ago
      The same way I reconcile the fact that the 11" Macbook sold millions of devices; consumers don't care. They don't buy Macs as a conscious evaluation of what the device is capable of or how well it was made. Even the 2019 16" Macbook Pro, arguably the worst Mac ever sold, has millions of units floating around in Obsoleteland. Personally I agree with the parent's comment. I used to buy Macs, but nowadays Apple alienates me. I'm one of the millions that don't buy a Mac because the hardware is gimped by arbitrary software limitations. Unless Apple changes that stance, I'm a lost customer. Cupertino has the market share statistics, they know where to find me.
      • deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
      • raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        Consider how many Macs in total that Apple sold during the years that Apple sold the 11 inch Air and that they discontinued it, I doubt it was a raging success. Especially seeing that with the Apple now selling the 13 inch Neo and it decided to sell a larger Air instead of a small one, I don’t think it sold that well.
• saagarjha 7mo ago
  > The Neo doesn’t have a hardware indicator light for the camera. The indication for “camera in use” is only in the menu bar. There’s a privacy/security implication for this omission. According to Apple, the hardware indicator light for camera-in-use on MacBooks, iPhones, and iPads cannot be circumvented by software. If the camera is on, that light comes on, and no software can disable it. Because the Neo’s only camera-in-use indicator is in the menu bar, that seems obviously possible to circumvent via software. iPhone and iPad does not have a hardware indicator light
  • zarzavat 7mo ago
    Arguably with SIP a hardware indicator light is not strictly necessary, the OS could force the indicator pixels to be lit.
    • madeofpalk 7mo ago
      Isn't the argument that a hardware indicator light is (more) immune to bugs? If its just software, you're a software exploit/bug away from finding a way to access the sensor without tripping the software light.
      • halapro 7mo ago
        Yes but also this has never been an issue on any phones (i.e. never heard a complaint), and you take that to the toilet. By comparison a laptop camera has much less access to your private life. People who are truly worried about cameras will cover it regardless of indicator.
      • bigfishrunning 7mo ago
        This depends on how the light is implemented -- if it's implemented in the camera module itself it's pretty bulletproof, but i would bet it's just a gpio to the processor on most of these devices and controlled by the os anyway. I could be wrong about that, but I err on the side of caution. I keep my phone in a bag most of the time. Treat every gun as if it's loaded, and every camera as if it's filming.
• asadm 7mo ago
  Soo has there been work to run hackintosh on an iPhone??
• xp84 7mo ago
  > You cannot buy an x86 PC laptop in the $600–700 price range that competes with the MacBook Neo on any metric — performance, display quality, audio quality, or build quality. Interesting metrics, though I'd add that if you count storage and memory as metrics, it'd be hard to find a worse PC laptop. And I don't see why we should artificially exclude ARM PC laptops from the comparison. https://www.bestbuy.com/product/asus-vivobook-14-wuxga-laptopsnapdragon-x16gb-ram1tb-ssdqualcomm-adreno-graphicswin-11-blue/JJG7VH87V5 https://www.bestbuy.com/product/asus-vivobook-14-wuxga-lapto... 2x the RAM and 2x the storage isn't meaningless to a lot of people. The PC has a single-core geekbench around 2100 single / 10,000 multicore. The Neo is apparently in the range of 3600 / 9,000 multicore. No arguments on the Mac's screen being way nicer though. However, the low-end computer market - unlike most of us on HN - has never cared about pixel density, color accuracy, or really any screen specs other than size (Looks like the Asus has the Mac by an inch on that spec). Bottom line, for a high-end Chromebook replacement (literally everything is done in the cloud, so storage doesn't matter, and only running a browser, so RAM isn't a big deal), as long as it's for someone who will take care of such a delicate device, the Neo is pretty great. For everyone else, it's debatable. > And certainly not software quality. This is most definitely only a little true in that Windows has jumped the shark lately with ads and various enshittification, and thus ties with Mac OS. Tahoe is without a doubt the worst Mac OS ever released. It's both poor quality and poorly designed.
  • zarzavat 7mo ago
    The manufacturers don't care about display quality, because displays are hard and expensive. Apple has enough volume that they can get a custom panel. Users on the other hand, they definitely care about display quality more than they care about RAM. The display is the part you look at! If you're in store and there's a Neo with a crisp 200 PPI screen and a Windows laptop with a cheap screen but more RAM, the vast majority of consumers will choose the laptop with the better display. People make purchasing decisions based on feels and the Neo has great feels.
    • fsh 7mo ago
      On the contrary, displays are commodity components. So much so that motivated enthusiasts have managed to swap better panels into their ThinkPads for a long time. Manufacturers don't prioritize display quality in cheap devices because it doesn't show up on the spec sheet and most customers don't care that much.
• bdbdbdb 7mo ago
  There's no point taking any Mac opinion from John Gruber, he's basically just Apple PR. He can't be objective
• Reason077 7mo ago
  > “Once or twice a day I need to manually bump the display brightness up or down.” This is a daily, albeit minor, annoyance on my MacBook Air too.
• philip1209 7mo ago
  Imagine if future versions had a sim card slot for data-only connections. That would be killer - a main reason I've considered an iPad is for "ambient internet" wherever you go. Why has that phone feature not made its way to laptops?
  • baq 7mo ago
    esim has you covered.
• GenericDev 7mo ago
  [dead]
• BugsJustFindMe 7mo ago
  > The biggest shortcoming of the decade-ago MacBook “One”, aside from the baffling decision to include just one USB-C port that was also its only means of charging, was the shitty performance of Intel’s Core M chips. MMMMMMM.....I don't know. I think the biggest shortcomings of that laptop were super common keyboard (dustgate), SSD, USB-C port, display, battery, and CPU (popcorning) failure.
• intrasight 7mo ago
  >we’re lucky it comes with a charger at all Yup
• dangus 7mo ago
  While the impact of the MacBook Neo is huge, this type of review is really screaming of an inexperienced reviewer who can't actually make good purchase recommendations to average people. It's really cool that this device is cheap but 8GB of RAM is the elephant in the room. Even non-technical web browsing users will notice the sluggishness coming from that spec. The moment they upgrade it to the next iPhone processor, it'll get 12GB of RAM, and it will need it. And the other elephant in the room that John doesn't bring up is the fact that you can definitely find in-warranty MacBook Air options for ~$700 and they'll be much better buys. You'll get more RAM, keep your Touch ID, better trackpad, better screen, better battery life, better speakers, better mics, I think even a better webcam? Maybe. That reminds me: the small battery in the Neo means that high screen brightness or more than light usage will more quickly deplete it compared to other Mac systems.
  • nirava 7mo ago
    > Even non-technical web browsing users will notice the sluggishness coming from that spec. I'm sorry but this line invalidates most of your comment, to the point of looking like satire. We have reviews and videos of people editing 4k videos with glee, launching and switching between all apps at once, and stuff like that. I used the base M1 as a power user/developer for years when it came out, and the only reason I had to switch was the storage. Sluggishness wasn't on the top 10 issues I had with that device.
    • dangus 7mo ago
      Be careful of the MacBook Neo reviews that have hit so early. Many of these reviewers are happy to sing praises of Apple for views, clicks, and early access to review units, etc. It is not a device that anyone has had on their desk able to test extensively, write review scripts, record and edit video, etc, yet without having special access. Dave2D had his MacBook Neo on his desk with an edited video completed on the day the computer was announced. That's the special access I'm talking about. And you'll be lucky if you watched an early video like that from someone like him who is willing to be reasonably critical and risk losing that special level of access. This segment of the Just Josh Tech podcast talks a lot about the caution you need to take with Apple reviewers who are just rushing review content out there: https://youtu.be/kSwXyxAA9XY?t=2406 https://youtu.be/kSwXyxAA9XY?t=2406 I think it's very interesting how they note that someone they know who is very non-technical noticed the sluggishness of web browsing with an 8GB M1 MacBook Air. I noticed that when I owned mine as well. I bought into the hype surrounding the faster RAM and was happy to save some money at the time. I wouldn't say I regret it but I would say it made the system last much less time. Yes, you can edit 4K videos, but not all 4K video editing workflows are created equally. You can't just jump into Final Cut Pro with complex timelines and lots of plugins and expect a good time. But of course if you're editing 4K videos in CapCut, that's no problem. For more casual users, this same concept applies: a Safari user who has 3 tabs open is having a much different experience than a Chrome user with 40 tabs open and a simultaneous big file download competing for swap disk writes, even though both of those users are "casual" and "non-technical" computer users. And here's the other thing, which Dave2D also mentioned: If you're locked in at the level where you just cannot spend more than $499 on a laptop, the Neo is a good deal. But if you actually have some willingness to spend just a little bit more, you'll almost certainly find some kind of M2/M3 MacBook Air, often brand new discounted at a retailer like Walmart or Best Buy where you end up 16GB of RAM and a ton of additional niceties over the Neo (Haptic trackpad, backlit keyboard, larger battery, better screen, speakers, microphones, etc). That system is a system that will ultimately last you longer than a Neo and only a small additional cost gets you there.
• heraldgeezer 7mo ago
  Impressive hardware for cheap. Too bad it is MacOS.
• yegle 7mo ago
  > The A9, in 2015, benchmarked comparably to a two-year-old MacBook Air from 2013. More impressively, it outperformed the then-new no-adjective 12-inch MacBook in single-core performance (by a factor of roughly 1.1×) and was only 3 percent slower in multi-core. Too bad that performance is (still) locked in the walled garden and cannot be used as a small Linux server.
• needSomeCoffee 7mo ago
  I do not really understand why the Walmart $599 M1 MBA comparison is so lost in the MSM. The Neo is the same price (without edu discount). The Neo CPU benchmarks slightly better until the 4W performance limit factors in more real-world cases (then the M1 wins handily). So much is given up with the Neo: Worse screen, Worse keyboard, No TouchId, Worse Trackpad, etc. Yet Apple is praised for the Neo. No longer matters of course as it appears that the Walmart M1 is history, and we now have the Neo -- worse in almost every way vs. M1 MBA. The only real beneficiary is undoubtedly Apple's margin. I guess the MSM and Apple fanbois hatred of Walmart and the "losers who shop there" influences this, but even so. Neo only benefits Apple vs. Walmarts M1 MBA deal. Edit / Link: https://www.macworld.com/article/2986234/walmart-m1-macbook-air-too-good-to-be-true.html https://www.macworld.com/article/2986234/walmart-m1-macbook-...
  • kvuj 7mo ago
    For me the longer software support would play a role in my decisions. The M1 MBA will probably lose support in 4-5 years whereas the Neo has a longer road ahead. Combine that with the enormously improved single core performance (which matters more in the real world than sustained load for an entry level notebook), fun colors and 499 price tag for students and I can see the interest. The screen is good compared to the MBA (only loses P3 colors) but the bummer seems to be ports and the "normal" trackpad.
  • nouveaux 7mo ago
    Why compare the M1 MBA discounted at Walmart but not give the same edu discount to the Neo? The target audience for Neo is likely people who would be able to use the edu discount. I know many people who would not care about the differences you have outlined and gladly pay $499 for the Neo.
  • haunter 7mo ago
    Even cheaper if you buy from Walmart's refurb outlet, they are $380.
    • bombcar 7mo ago
      I never even knew Walmart sold refurbs: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Restored-Apple-MacBook-Air-Laptop-Apple-M1-8-Core-CPU-7-Core-GPU-8GB-RAM-128GB-SSD-13-Space-Gray-MGN53LL-A-2020-Refurbished/995073547?conditionGroupCode=2&classType=VARIANT https://www.walmart.com/ip/Restored-Apple-MacBook-Air-Laptop...
• calf 7mo ago
  I woke up to see my other comment downvoted by some rando, but I honestly think this is the best line in the entire article and Gruber's wish is telling (I quote the line only here, but it is best read in context of the original passage): "I wish Apple would make a MacBook that’s akin to the iPhone Air — crazy thin and surprisingly performant." What this reflects is all those comments and users, myself included, over the years saying "I would get an iPad if only it could run MacOS", and the ensuing discussion to the effect of why Apple won't do it, the chips are just as powerful, etc. A tablet Mac is a lot of people's (both casual and tech) holy grail in portable computing, justified/sensible or not in terms of technology and UI form factor. Gruber's wish is precisely the expression of this not unpopular sentiment. And also the Tahoe iPad OS features is a clue that Apple knows this.
• insane_dreamer 7mo ago
  My kids (ages 10, 14) have never used a Windows computer. They were introduced to computing with iPhone and iPad, and they use Chromebooks at school. At home I have Win, Linux and MacOS computers, but they've only used the MacOS ones (not interested in the others). I am trying to get them to use Linux, but unless they want to do hacking-type stuff (that's not them), then it's hard to sell them on it. When we buy them personal laptops (not there yet), it'll be a MacBook Neo (or its successor). I expect that unless they're forced to at work, they'll never touch a Windows computer in their life.
• rconti 7mo ago
  > because the key caps are brand new, it feels even better than the keyboard on my own now-four-years-old MacBook Pro, the most-used key caps on which are now a little slick Honestly, I have a hard time typing on a new Apple laptop; it doesn't feel right until the keycaps are a bit worn.
• capricio_one 7mo ago
  I wonder if this will get RISC-V adoption on the roadmap of competitors. We had a thread in the last 24 hours over how slow as molasses it is, but honestly x86 isn’t the way to go. I like that the AMD x64 literature tries to push down on the legacy cruft but some of it is evident in the ISA which is harder to ignore, like default behaviours of registers and other things that are left over for backwards compat and as such everything around it suffers in a thousand broken windows sort of way. nb I haven’t delved too deep into RISCV but I am under a general impression it did away with all this. My concern is the layers that are added will turn it into a CISCV over time.
• listless 7mo ago
  Would it kill this guy to make his site responsive? It’s like one prompt.
• tasuki 7mo ago
  > You cannot buy an x86 PC laptop in the $600–700 price range that competes with the MacBook Neo on any metric — performance, display quality, audio quality, or build quality. And certainly not software quality. My old x86 "PC" laptop with the $0 Debian certainly compares positively to Apple in terms of software quality.
  • kilpikaarna 7mo ago
    As much as I like the form factor and price point of the MB Neo, I just can't accept a computer that needs to phone home when reinstalling the (one approved) OS. Bought yet another second hand 11" MBA instead. Now looking at SMT soldering equipmemt for doing ipgrades and repairs.
• yalogin 7mo ago
  This was always going to be the case. Apple has perfected the art of finding slots for different use cases and consumer buckets just as well as they have perfected the hardware and software. This is a no brained for most home use and particularly education. Only issue for home use is photos and able to process an entire photo database at once and doing ML operations on them. Of course apple’s photos is the one black mark in their software stack, or may be something I don’t like.
• jauntywundrkind 7mo ago
  It's remarkable to me that this shows what an iPhone chip has been capable of, and a reminder about how strongly Apple works to keep phone, tablet, and laptop in separate segments. Even though they share the same chips. Going to be signficiantly harder for Qualcomm X2 Elite to make a splash, given the price here. I have high hopes for the X2 Elite Extreme (even if it is going to be cursed with incredible difficulty trying to get each of these non-ACPI / DeviceTree systems running Linux). But this raises the bar signficiantly.
  • halapro 7mo ago
    People keep calling this "a phone chip" when M1 was literally "a phone chip" to begin with, based on A14. It's entirely reasonable that in 4 generations of "phone chips", the A18 reaches the speed that M1 did during its "one-generation" rework.
    • jauntywundrkind 7mo ago
      The M1 was beefed up in quite a number of ways. More cores, much bigger GPU, double the memory bandwidth, more clocks, more power, a massive io subsystem that just didn't exist period with thunderbolt, pcie, etc. You are correct that the architecture was indeed the same, but it was quite a different chip. "Literally a phone chip to begin with, based on", to me, misleads from how different the m1 was. But yes, they appear to share the same architecture.
• Fraterkes 7mo ago
  I feel corny being so positive about a megacompany, but I bought my first Macbook air half a year ago after a life of PC's, and it has been genuinly surprising to use something made by a huge company that is constantly better than I expected.
  • MeetingsBrowser 7mo ago
    I have a macbook air from 2022 and it is easily the "best" computer I have ever owned. Its portable. It has a great keyboard, screen, and battery life. No fans or overheating. No issues with the operating system or installing software I need. I can even use it for some lighter software development directly, and for everything else I can ssh back to a beefier machine. If I weren't already so happy with this macbook air, I would be ecstatic for the neo.
    • ProllyInfamous 7mo ago
      Same. I got the 2024 15" Macbook Air when CostCo had it for $849.00* Hadn't purchased a laptop new since college scholarship decades ago. This machine continues to make an immediate impression. The entire thing is thinner than just the bottom of my college CoreDuo. It also lasts 8x longer, on battery. I just use mine as a tertiary machine (i.e. bedtime reading/podcast), but if you ever want to run the machine hard long-term, you can use 1mm thermal pads between the heatsink and bottom of external case (and then it'll never throttle).
      • zuhsetaqi 7mo ago
        > if you ever want to run the machine hard long-term, you can use 1mm thermal pads between the heatsink and bottom of external case (and then it'll never throttle). That will spread the heat to the battery and degrade it much faster.
        • ProllyInfamous 7mo ago
          The inverse is true: This removes heat from the internal compartments (which logic board heat sink and battery co-habitate [0]) by transferring it outside via heat conduction through the case. There is no detectible heat increase (to touch) — consider the heat masses relative sizes (processor v. entire metal case). [0] See <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXY9tCBpf48&t=188 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXY9tCBpf48&t=188> — thermal pad placement goes between four central screws (above processor) As a thought experiment: how would ejecting heat from the inside increase its temperature?
• panos_news 7mo ago
  "I’ll just say it: I think I’m done with iPads. Why bother when Apple is now making a crackerjack Mac laptop that starts at just $600?" So, Gruber, you're telling me that you didn't have a laptop before because of the price and you had to settle for an iPad?
  • deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
• nobrains 7mo ago
  No mention of no backlit in keyboard?
• hinkley 7mo ago
  I swear to god every time I go to Gruber's website he's narrowed the text another ten pixels.
• rekabis 7mo ago
  I am perfectly fine with many of the technological restrictions on this device, and think it represents a great balance. However, I think that two will bring sour tastes to people’s metaphorical mouths much more than expected: the RAM and drive space. There should have been a 16Gb option. Nosebleed the price if you have to, or include a SODIMM slot if needed, but the option should have been there to expand the memory to 16Gb either on spec or at a later date. Because each version of MacOS gets weightier and more demanding of hardware - Windows isn’t the only resource hog out there - and at 8Gb the pain will begin to be felt long before the 7-year usability cycle comes to an end. There should have been a 1Tb option. Not because people use that much drive space - many don’t - but because 1Tb is the level which provides enough cells in parallel to properly saturate the PCIe bus, ensuring maximum performance. Not always at that 1Tb level, and not on every machine. But typically 1Tb or above, rather than below. Even if it required a hairdryer to unstick the original due to the constrained space not permitting a lock-down screw, the drive should have been either replaceable or with the size as (again) a nosebleed-price option at provisioning. Because while I see every other compromise as acceptable, it is those two which make me hesitate on getting this as a long-term secondary/casual system. Other than that, this is a laptop which can only goose Apple’s further adoption among students and casual users.
  • NetMageSCW 7mo ago
    Anyone who knows what any of that means, or even to looks at those specs, are not in the market for this and should know better. Why do you think the cheapest MacBook available should be one that costs more to support power users. Apple has the MacBook Air for those users.
    • rekabis 7mo ago
      > Anyone who knows what any of that means, or even to looks at those specs, are not in the market for this and should know better. Why? I am a power user, and if I didn’t already have a copious stable of second-hand machines (a side effect of also being in the hardware end of IT), I would gladly pick one of these machines up as a “vacation/personal device”. I mean, as a power user I am going to need high specs… for my work. In my off time and on my vacation time, all I need is something that can connect to the Internet, let me do basic eMail and web surfing, and lets me connect remotely to my iron back in my office to keep a light touch on things. And in that regard, this machine is perfect. My issue with the device is in term of long-term ownership, where 8Gb RAM and 512Gb of storage isn’t going to get me all the way out to 7-8 years of usage in a comfortable manner. Even with light duties, imma gonna see the seams stretch uncomfortably so somewhere in the 4-6 year stage.
• ksec 7mo ago
  This is going to be against a lot of the comments and opinion posted on HN here. The best selling Macbook in history, as percentage of total MacBook sold is the 11" $899 MacBook Air. That was when Apple learned people are willing to give up on performance and features just to get a Mac, or just to use OSX. And despite the declining state of macOS, as Gruber said it is still zillions times better than Windows. Apple Mac has always been more expensive than PC. But they are also better built. No Laptop has decent trackpad until M$ pull R&D into their surface book. PC Speaker was appalling until YouTuber start to state the obvious how MacBook speakers were better. But none of these matters, at the end of the day most consumer dont understand spec. They see that is the cheapest MacBook, it looks good and works, just like the MacBook Air 11", if they could afford to buy a $500 laptop, they will spend extra $100 on Apple. Even if the spec on paper is arguably worse. And if we are really talking about spec and compare. If you even want some after sales services, you would at least have to look at Dell, HP or ASUS. And not some random Chinese brand. These 1920 * 1080 15" screen is not a decent screen. Even ignoring P3 colour, you will have to find a screen with 200PPI+, let alone Apple do it with 220PPI. If you want to use Amazon as comparison, they have been selling M4 MacBook Air at $200 discount sometimes $250 for most of the time. I have no idea why, but I would not be surprised the $699 model be selling at $599, same as EDU price. Then at this point the MacBook Neo is extremely competitively priced. You get better screen, faster CPU for less storage and less ram. And let's fast forward a year. A Neo with A19 Pro as used in iPhone 17 Air and Pro with 12GB RAM, Double the SSD Speed. WiFI 7. Assuming that is true, I dont even see anything on the PC roadmap that is competitive, especially when they are all facing DRAM pricing pressure. ( Although I also think Apple will bump A19 Pro version by additional $100 ) Forgetting all that for a second, not a single review look into the actual Neo hardware. We will have to wait for iFixit for detail teardown. But is should be the easiest to fix Mac, and designed to be simple to manufacture as they said in the interview. The chassis is likely heavier due to this process but could see further refinement. The mechanical trackpad is work of genius, I am not sure if this is Apple only innovation or something that is on the market already. That trackpad alone is 150g, that is nearly one tenth of the weight of whole Neo. The Neo is, as far as I am aware perhaps the first Apple product that was designed and engineered to be as practical and cost effective as possible. True to their words this isn't some cost reduction exercise using old design and components. This makes Neo the most boring Apple product on paper, but sometimes boring is good. And I agree with MKBHD, this is perhaps the most disruptive Apple product since the original iPhone. There are roughly 1.5 - 2 billions Windows PC in use today. And Apple has at best 150 to 200M Mac user. So there is plenty of room to grow. I would be happy if they could double that in 5 years time. I am really liking everything this New Apple is coming through so far. Molly Anderson as Industrial Engineer. John Ternus on Hardware Engineering. Not sure if Steve Lemay is great but my gut feeling is he would restore a lot of Apple HID. The only thing missing is software ( And may be Services lead ). I know Craig Federighi is popular on HN and internet but I haven't liked a single software engineering direction since he took charge. Stop adding features and Resume driven development and start fixing bugs. May be lastly, Tim Cook has never been any good at picking person. But all these new selection seems to be great. This cant be a coincidence. I am wondering if there are some additional changes in the background at Apple we dont see. I have been giving Tim Cook's Apple plenty benefits of doubt but losing faith steadily for 10 years. This is the first time ever since Steve Jobs passed away I am excited to see changes in direction. The name Neo is just great. Truly something new.
• jollyjerry 7mo ago
  This won’t happen, but I would love an Apple implementation of the Samsung Dex - phone soc that can dock into a laptop or desktop enclosure.
• flenserboy 7mo ago
  This does look great for its use case, but I'd love a version as a latter-day eMate.
• zamadatix 7mo ago
  I grabbed a Neo w/ the edu discount for my niece. Very pleased with it on day 1. So far I think the only thing I can add to the conversation about it is the only real disappointment is that the only upgrade option is to go to 512G w/ touch ID for $100. That's not to say the 8 GB option was bad by any means, it actually works even better than I was expecting, but it still leaves a big gap on the way up to the base model Air at $1100 and the splash could have been twice as large.
• j45 7mo ago
  If the Neo had been the next 12" macbook (2.0 lb), it would be the first apple product I would have lined up for. The article sums up why quite well: "The biggest shortcoming of the decade-ago MacBook “One”, aside from the baffling decision to include just one USB-C port that was also its only means of charging, was the shitty performance of Intel’s Core M chips. Those chips were small enough and low-power enough to fit in the MacBook’s thin and fan-less enclosure, but they were slow as balls. It was a huge compromise for a laptop that carried a somewhat premium price. Today, performance, performance-per-watt, and physical chip size are all solved problems with Apple Silicon. I’d consider paying double the price of the Neo for a MacBook with similar specs (but more RAM and better I/O) that weighed 2.0 pounds or less. I’d buy such a MacBook not to replace my 14-inch MacBook Pro, but to replace my 2018 11-inch iPad Pro as my “carry around the house” secondary computer.5"
  • NetMageSCW 7mo ago
    Given that the 12” MacBook cost $1300 back then, that new MacBook would be triple the cost, or around $1800 today. Still worth it?
    • j45 7mo ago
      Yes. Considering it'd be running an M series chip, plus battery life, it would have more horsepower than the 12" Macbook. Add to that more ram, and the 2lb or less alternative to iPad is real.
• amatecha 7mo ago
  Closer and closer to the desktop and mobile devices running the same OS... One other thing, how repairable is this thing going to be? I'm guessing it's going to end up with an extremely low repairability score, considering they seem to solder both RAM and storage these days. Looking at the MacBook Pro (repairability score 4/10) it seems crazy difficult even to swap the battery: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+14-Inch+Late+2023+(M3+Pro+and+M3+Max)+Battery+Replacement/167647 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+14-Inch+Late+2023+(...
• rtpg 7mo ago
  I still can't get over how this thing is priced the same as the 2013 Macbook Air... when looking at JPY prices. I wonder how much of the Neo pricing wow factor is Apple taking advantage of the strong dollar vs much else that's changed on the ground (obv the processor pick is a "real thing")
  • hinkley 7mo ago
    Welcome to being old. Inflation is cumulatively 40% since 2013.
    • rtpg 7mo ago
      Well the Macbook Air pricing in USD was always around $1000 right? 2013 MBA pricing in USD was $1100 2013 MBA pricing in JPY was 110k JPY 2026 Macbook Neo pricing in JPY is ~100k JPY 2026 Macbook Neo pricing in USD is $600 2026 Macbook Air pricing in JPY is ~140k JPY 2026 Macbook Air pricing in USD is ..~$1100 So depending on the currency either the Neo is a massively cheaper thing or filling a gap in a product line that inflation created. I wonder how much of Apple's costs are USD-denominated. The fact that the MBA hasn't changed pricing at all makes me guess that not that much, but I don't know how manufacturing contracts work I dunno, I find it interesting, but JPY inflation is a recent phenomenon
      • hinkley 7mo ago
        Apple has a different relationship with the Paradox of Choice than most companies. The price stability makes it a bad idea generally to buy the old model right when the new one comes out. And not chasing inflation numbers I think is also part of that. They also have some of the highest margins on consumer electronics in the business. Higher IIRC than Nokia had, before smartphones killed them. So absorbing a 3% bump in the dollar isn't that big a deal for them.
• dzhiurgis 7mo ago
  Very obvious next step is to release 15" or 16" variant. It would put nail in coffin on cheap PC market. But would also cannibalize their own air/pro sales.
  • bell-cot 7mo ago
    Sadly, "nail in coffin" is an exaggeration. Though the press would be throwing that phrase around. With plenty of dire-sounding quotes from cheap PC manufacturers. Limiting cannibalization wouldn't be hard. Just load up a Neo, a 13" Air, and a 15" Air on the Apple web store's Compare page - a 15" or 16" Neo would be the "obviously lesser" laptop by 90% of the metrics. My bet is that Apple has prototypes of the larger variant, and is waiting to see how the situation develops.
• crowcroft 7mo ago
  Not really a comment on laptops, but I recently built a new desktop for the first time in nearly two decades. I'm sure that there has been some innovation in the space, but overall I was surprised that everything just seemed... the exact same? PCI slots are from the 90s. DIMM from the 90s. SATA from the early 00s. LGA sockets from the mid 00s.
• jatins 7mo ago
  I know this is being marketed for students and such but honestly even if you are a developer who works primarily with web dev stuff you will be able to do all of it on this device. Or if you are a product manager in a tech company, this is perfect device. IMO there is a small subset of Mac users today(gamers, local LLM users, editors, mobile devs) for which this won't be the best option
• written-beyond 7mo ago
  You greatly underestimate the utility used, serviceable laptops have provided to broke students. My first laptop was a decommissioned pos office dell ultrabook. By every metrics it would've been the worst option to choose, but since it had replaceable memory I was able to push it to 16 gigs and get through my computer science degree and many side projects. Computational speed was adequate for me, I ran Linux on it. It had an Intel U series 6th gen (12th gen was latest then) i5, an NVMe ssd and was always responsive. If I were a student in this day, and all I could find were these laptops this is what I would think. 1 they're out of budget for most students in developing countries. 2 I will most likely out grow 8 GB ram faster than my laptops CPU performance. 3 I am limited to learning with what can run on apple silicon(most Linux distros excluding asahi). Finally I end up paying basically 50-60% of the cost of a decent machine and replaced it with a disposable one. Maybe this machine is perfect for a specific set of users, students with higher income households or degrees which need better a better quality display. I still advise every computing student I meet to get a under $200 old used laptop that has expandable memory and atleast an NVMe ssd. That way they can maximise their time learning and experimenting. Anything that needs more complex hardware can always be offloaded into your institutes machines. Once you're settled a bit and have a decent amount of cash to burn go ahead and buy whatever maxed out MacBook your heart desires.
  • andyferris 7mo ago
    It's definitely a product for the middle class, not the poor ("broke students" vs "mom bought me this laptop"). The distinction is a lot of (most?) Apple products are _expensive_ for middle class buyers, while this represents good value. If it's well designed and robust, it might be a great machine to buy second hand in 3-5 years.
    • aziaziazi 7mo ago
      Second hand apple products are fantastic deals! Just bought a second 2016 iPhone for 50€. Apple still push security updates 10 years after release! I wonder what's their business rationale, while being delighted buy the cheap, light, small and perfectly usable device compatible with my bank and all communication apps. Only downside are the unsolicited disapproving comments IRL. I'm very keen to buy a 50€ macbook Neo in 10 years.
• jwrallie 7mo ago
  I'm curious but could not find any information if virtualization is possible on the Neo. Not that 8GB is that promising to start with, but running a slimmed down VM has its uses.
  • canbus 7mo ago
    likewise - surprised someone hasn't tried to run docker on it yet and reported success/failure.
• tgma 7mo ago
  > When I wrote last week that the MacBook Neo is the first product from Apple with an A-series chip sporting more than one USB port — addressing complaints that the Neo’s second USB-C port only supports USB 2.0 speeds — a few readers pointed to the Apple Silicon developer transition kits. A12Z is really M0 (or you could say M1 is A14X or A14Z depending on GPU bin), so I would not characterize it as "(iPhone) A-series."
• teki_one 7mo ago
  My only problem with the Neo is that the base config has a good price, but if I want 512GB storage it reaches into the usable PC category. Usable for me: 16GB/512GB, Arc/RDNA 3.5 GPU Different tradeoffs obiously: light, good screen & touchpad versus Linux compatibility and backlit keyboard.
• arrty88 7mo ago
  The perfect kid or mom device for news, homework and entertainment.
• esprehn 7mo ago
  The missing camera light seems pretty serious. Any sandbox escape can turn on the camera and record without you noticing. Or your school or employer could. If you're in full screen mode the menu bar is hidden too. It's a very strange move for privacy centered Apple.
  • luketaylor 7mo ago
    The indicators are controlled along with sensor access at a very low level within a secure “exclave” from the main kernel; this is how the on-screen indicators have worked on iPhones for a few years. The indicator is rendered within the display controller at the firmware level, so can’t be affected by anything in _either_ user mode or kernel mode. [1][2] 1: https://randomaugustine.medium.com/on-apple-exclaves-d683a2c37194 https://randomaugustine.medium.com/on-apple-exclaves-d683a2c... 2: https://asahilinux.org/2021/08/progress-report-august-2021/#reverse-engineering-dcp https://asahilinux.org/2021/08/progress-report-august-2021/#...
    • esprehn 7mo ago
      Ah this is what I missed: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2026/03/12/macbook-neo-on-screen-camera-indicator https://daringfireball.net/linked/2026/03/12/macbook-neo-on-... It's not just the menu bar icon (which can definitely be spoofed), but an on screen dot where the system is controlling pixels directly bypassing any OS level drawing on the screen. Related: https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/1in0681/iphone_16_models_have_new_security_functionality/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/1in0681/iphone_16_m...
• mvkel 7mo ago
  It's as if people forgot about the MacBook One (anagram: Neo) from 2015 (which I daily drove for a year and loved). I suspect the Neo will sell about the same, and be forgotten in as many years.
  • aurbxyajwur 7mo ago
    That thing started at $1300 and had a dog slow Intel processor. I bet that the Neo outsells it by at least 20x
• danhite 7mo ago
  Rather than just looking at Apple's motivations as to address ~new customers, I'd like to point out Mr. Gruber surprised himself: > I am in no way arguing that the MacBook Neo is an iPad killer, but it’s a splendid iPad alternative for people like me, who don’t draw with a Pencil, do type with a keyboard, and just want a small, simple, highly portable and highly capable computer to use around the house. My wife and I prefer iPads around the house as she is a pencil centric artist and loosely speaking I prefer touch to keyboards. But his framing points out Apple is expansively addressing broad market work/school/home computing needs/preferences and thus also brings up a question I think is under discussed... What is Apple's user experience roadmap for Apple TV mass market home computing? And for home computing in general? We are overdue for a leap up there, where Apple, as with the Neo, exploits their ability to profitably deliver higher end hardware which enables features at prices below any comparable competition. I know folks are fond of pointing to Apple struggling to deliver Siri/AI advances but I view that like their Apple Maps fiasco: an ongoing priority roadmap that they will keep working at until it is better than good enough. I believe Apple will soon accelerate the power ramp up in Apple TV both because they could now ~ Neo that device into very $/performance competitive vs game consoles but also because they likely predict an ever increasing demand for home compute by consumers. Not just speech i/o and AI conversation but also active realtime cheap private application of compute, such as personalizing your sports game feed, for example: a) continually show me where the ball is by [dynamic method] b) rewind to when player X had the ball c) freeze there and show me what might have happened if they had passed to Y d) dress all the players in tutus e) change to my cooking show but warp me back to this game if someone scores f) etc etc etc. Their 5+ year planning and commitment to the Apple Watch and Vision Pro show that they are ardent bettors on personal computing continuing to evolve very rapidly if they can concoct a profitable multi-year course from niche to ubiquitous. [not just for a product but for their synergistic products] Remember they build elaborate fake homes as test centers, and not just to film product promos. I would be very surprised to learn their current 5 year outlook ignores robotics. Look around the edges of their public activities and imagine how what you notice might also fit together with something new but hidden. They are ambitious. Very Ambitious. What's next?
• tempa985641 7mo ago
  This might be affordable for US and western world, but for us indians it's still a high end laptop at 70k. And considering that repair cost almost half of the price after warranty it actually in premier segment.
• divbzero 7mo ago
  > A decade ago, Apple began switching from trackpads with mechanical clicking mechanisms to Magic Trackpads, where clicks are simulated via haptic feedback (in Apple’s parlance, the Taptic Engine).... The Neo’s trackpad is mechanical. It actually clicks, even when the machine is powered off. I wonder if the real clicks on mechanical trackpad will actually feel better than the simulated clicks on the Magic Trackpad.
  • spiderice 7mo ago
    Why do you need to wonder about this? We've had mechanical trackpads for ages to compare them to. They feel worse. Getting even click pressure across a large surface is nearly impossible.
    • Jaxan 7mo ago
      I used to have a 2011 MBP and a M1 air at the same time. I actually preferred the mechanical trackpad of the MBP. Unfortunately that laptop died.
• olalonde 7mo ago
  > my personal workstation remains a 2021 M1 Max MacBook Pro I was surprised that a guy who shills Apple for a living still uses a 5 year old MacBook. It goes to show how the longevity of laptops has increased over time. I'm also on a M1 Macbook and find it hard to justify an upgrade.
  • raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
    Someone didn’t read the “There is something rotten in Cupertino” article that caused Apple not only to not make an executive available for his post WWDC podcast for the first time in a decade or how he continuously criticizes Tim Cook kissing Trump’s ass. He has also been a continuous critic of Apple’s App Store policies and its handling of regulators
    • olalonde 7mo ago
      Well "shilling" is a bit strong but his livelihood is tethered to Apple.
      • raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
        Yes, because if Gruber doesn’t say nice things about Apple, they may go out of business and he won’t have anything to write about…
        • olalonde 7mo ago
          Is he your uncle or something? I was just saying that it's surprising someone whose livelihood revolves around Apple uses a 5 year old MacBook. And yeah, if he was not an Apple enthusiast, Apple wouldn't suffer but his blog would.
          • raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
            No I am saying it’s dumb to call someone a shill when he has a very public spat with Apple, he constantly criticizes its CEO, its App Store policies, the latest OS, etc. Exactly what would you like him to criticize? That the latest Apple Watch doesn’t run Linux? Why exactly would he need to buy a new Mac just to maintain a blog? He buys a new iPhone every year and he gets review units of everything.
• jurschreuder 7mo ago
  The problem is, I just want to plug in a monitor, mouse and keyboard into my phone. But it cannot be done because it only allows AppStore content with a 30% cut for Apple. Technically it's not challenging as you can see with this new MacBook.
• looopTools 7mo ago
  I cannot believe I am saying this, but I am honestly thinking about getting one. So my iPad Pro is nice and I love my Mac Studio, but my MacBook Pro is out of support and installing Fedora Linux on it will be a hassle due to the touchbar from what I can tell. So I am actually in a marked for a laptop to just write on when I am on the go... The neo fits that spec perfectly....
• iqfareez 7mo ago
  [dead]
• croes 7mo ago
  > You cannot buy an x86 PC laptop in the $600–700 price range that competes with the MacBook Neo on any metric — performance, display quality, audio quality, or build quality. You don’t have to if the software you need needs Windows.
• crashbunny 7mo ago
  The neo might be the start of the end of traditional home PCs. You buy a thin client and a monthly subscription and all of your files and compute is in the cloud. Want to edit some raw video into a polished 20 minute video suitable for youtube? You don't open final cut pro, you tell your thin client to edit the raw video into a polished 20 minute video. Your monthly subscription includes AI and out pops an edited video.
  • Tepix 7mo ago
    It‘s capable enough not to be viewed as a Thin Client. Nor do I think many people want one.
  • odo1242 7mo ago
    Why would it be the end of traditional home PCs? If you can buy this much compute power for $600, who would pay a subscription for another computer?
    • diffeomorphism 7mo ago
      Because AI needs so much more power and in particular RAM.
      • deleted 7mo ago
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• DaanDL 7mo ago
  Why couldn't they just've called it Macbook, instead of Macbook Neo?
  • willtemperley 7mo ago
    Because it's the new Macbook.
    • nudpiedo 7mo ago
      So in a couple of years we will have de MacBook Neo Neo? I think they got just cheaper marketing since jobs died. No focus or brand protection.
  • gehsty 7mo ago
    To stop comparison to the old 12” 1 port MacBook? If you were to align the MacBook line with iPhone line logically this would be an ‘e’ class device, the Air would just become the MacBook, pro remains pro, and there would be a nice gap for a new ultra light MacBook Air, a modern Apple silicon version of the 12” MacBook - expensive, small and fast, analogous to iPhone Air. Also new names are fun. This name is a fun name. Nice to see some playfulness from Apple.
  • jurip 7mo ago
    It might be helpful to have a modifier on all the models. It's a bit awkward (not that the naming geniuses at Apple have ever cared about how awkward it's to talk about their products, witness "Apple Watch Edition" and Max Macs) to talk about iPads, because one of them lacks a modifier. "Which iPad" "The iPad iPad", etc.
  • tuetuopay 7mo ago
    "- yeah I have a macbook" "- what, an air?" "- no a macbook" "- ..?" "- the one in colors, not the one-port 12 inch one from 2015 but you know it just released!" This already happened in 2015, they probably don't want for it to happen again.
• jackyard86 7mo ago
  MacBook Neo with 512 gigabytes of storage configuration costs 1,200,000 KRW (Approx. 810 USD for reference) in my nation. I can get ThinkPad E14 with a decent lunar lake CPU and 16 gigabytes of memory, at a slightly lower price. So I'm not as hyped as others...
  • mono442 7mo ago
    That's interesting. In my country ThinkPad E14 16/512 is 37% more expensive and comes with garbage 60% srgb screen. It's actually more expensive than MacBook air M4 16/512.
    • jackyard86 7mo ago
      It't true that the ThinkPad display kind of sucks. Though I can upgrade to a 2K OLED panel for additional 80 USD. That makes the E14 30 bucks more expensive than the Neo.
• thefz 7mo ago
  > And there’s the whole thing with the second USB-C port only supporting USB 2 speeds. That stinks. But if Apple could sell a one-port MacBook a decade ago, they can sell one with a shitty second port today. This is the kind of reasoning behind why I can not take any Apple product review seriously, or any Apple fan seriously.
• AbuAssar 7mo ago
  not having a led indicator for camera, and not having an ambient light sensor, this means they are using the camera as a light sensor
  • rickdeckard 7mo ago
    yeah, I expect they use the camera as a make-shift ambient light-sensor, just with a lower frequency than a illumination sensor would be used (due to power consumption impact), and with overall lower accuracy (lower dynamic range, reduced FoV, very bad accuracy in low-light/bright conditions,...). This pretty much matches the described experience in the article that Gruber had, as he mentions he had to adjust brightness up and down at least twice every day...
• rickdeckard 7mo ago
  > "I’d consider paying double the price of the Neo for a MacBook with similar specs (but more RAM and better I/O) that weighed 2.0 pounds or less. I’d buy such a MacBook not to replace my 14-inch MacBook Pro, but to replace my 2018 11-inch iPad Pro as my “carry around the house” secondary computer." > "As it stands, I might buy a Neo for that same purpose, 2.7-pound weight be damned." The wonders of the closed ecosystem / walled-garden, where you don't have to face competition on equal terms, because you already locked-in your customers...
• Jeffrin-dev 7mo ago
  [flagged]
• deleted 7mo ago
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• Weryj 7mo ago
  If they made a thin client with these processors, in a mac-mini (mac-tiny?) format. I would be buying a couple on every paycheck. But that's very wishful thinking.
  • throwpoaster 7mo ago
    Mac Neo
    • Weryj 7mo ago
      Sure, but the screen/keyboard aren't necessary
• jollymonATX 7mo ago
  I miss deep technical dives on hw, folks just shillmaxn now.
• throwpoaster 7mo ago
  The MacBook Neo is, to my mind, almost certainly a sink for rejected mobile chips. My understanding is that they run a nominally six-core chip in five-core mode. This is fine, and actually a brilliant business move to monetize inventory investment that is otherwise sunk while releasing a new product that doesn't require them to fight for fab capacity. It's just not something I'm seeing in the consumer discourse that, perhaps, people might like to understand.
• abc123abc123 7mo ago
  What's the problem? By last years lenovo x-series, install linux, takes 10 minutes, done and everything works like a charm. Incomprehensible how much time and effort people spend on something which takes no more than a few minutes.
  • lquist 7mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
  • dainiusse 7mo ago
    If you ever try a mac laptop - there is simply no way back. I've got top tier Lenovo and Dell - the build quality is just incomparable. And that is sad. They may have edge on separate components - e.g. a gorgeous screen,but not the combination of it all.
• kvgr 7mo ago
  This is imho great MB for traveling, you want to edit some pictures, read/write and edit some code without being afraid of you 3K MB Pro getting damaged or stolen? Great! I want to do more travel and photography, with occasional light work on my own project. And this feels like better option than iPad, because i can use Xcode and android Studio. And for +- the same price.
• deleted 7mo ago
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