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Flock CEO calls Deflock a “terrorist organization” (2025) [video]
- rationalist 9mo agoWow... "...and then unfortunately there is terroristic organizations like DeFlock, whose primary motivation is chaos. They are closer to Antifa than they are anything else." "We're not forcing Flock on anyone..." It is a short 1:32 video, I encourage people to watch it for themselves. I thought DeFlock was just publishing locations of cameras and lawfully convincing local governments to not use Flock, primarily through FOIA requests.
- verdverm 9mo agothe line from authoritarians is often predictably to proclaim their opponents "terrorists" and the like https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/weakness-strongmen-stephen-kotkin https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/weakness-strongmen-step...
- saalweachter 9mo agoTwenty-some years back, I attended a talk by a classicist who was talking about how the Romans, Caesar specifically I think, basically used "pirate" the same way.
- nmora 9mo agoI saw an exhibition on cannibalism that mentioned a similar thing such that being called a "cannibal" was used in a similar fashion.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 9mo agoAre there any famous examples? Like did John Adams ever call an opponent a cannibal?
- stevenwoo 9mo agoFunnily enough, the currently airing Starz program, Spartacus: House of Ashur does this, has Caesar as a character and all political sides use “pirates” as a bogeyman to justify all sorts of things and stage false flag attacks while pretending to be pirates. It’s meant for entertainment not historicity but it’s kind of reminding me of Battlestar Galactica reboot touching political themes in this one aspect except with swords and prosethetics flying everywhere.
- verdverm 9mo agoart comments on life and life imitates art
- int_19h 9mo agoAlso https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandenbek%C3%A4mpfung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandenbek%C3%A4mpfung
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- IAmGraydon 9mo agohttps://archive.is/IBKgO https://archive.is/IBKgO
- pixl97 9mo ago> They are closer to Antifa than they are anything else. So they just said "These people are anti-fascist and this is a bad thing" Aren't authoritarians great.
- lowkey_ 9mo ago[flagged]
- lazyasciiart 9mo agoPresumably you mean that it is commonly presented that way by authoritarians who have no idea what they are talking about.
- qu4z-2 9mo agoYou can disagree, but "Presumably you meant the opposite of what you said" is condescending nonsense.
- idle_zealot 9mo agoIt's the most charitable interpretation. I think HN rules require that you give others the benefit of the doubt and assume that most charitable case.
- Ar-Curunir 9mo agoHe gave you a charitable interpretation of your absolutely nonsense comment.
- RealityVoid 9mo agoIt's wild what the perception is in the right echo chamber right now. I was talking with my brother, who I love, but who, through his practicing Christian faith is essentially pulled into this right-wing cultural environment and propaganda machine. So he was making the point that the politics in the US have drifted so much more to the left that the right is actually the center. My jaw dropped off the floor. How do these thing even get propagated? It's borderline ridiculous and I don't know how this firehouse of bullshit can ever be countered.
- Ar-Curunir 9mo agoAh yes, and the antifa line. Wonder if these assholes ever stop to think what being anti-antifa actually means.
- ahartmetz 9mo agoIt's not uncommon for fascists to call themselves anti-antifa.
- JumpCrisscross 9mo agoIs there a general term for metastatic semantic overinclusivity? Terrorist. Racist. Colonist. Fascist. Historically-rooted and precise terms that are collectively decohering in a self-amplifying and propagating way as everyone feels increasingly free to detach more and more words from their original meanings.
- schmidtleonard 9mo agoDeath of the author.
- GuinansEyebrows 9mo agoyou have seriously got to read and understand Eco's 14 tenets of Ur-Fascism [0] if you think that contemporary applications of the term "fascist" are inaccurate in describing what's happening right now in the US. [0] https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci...
- JumpCrisscross 9mo ago> if you think that contemporary applications of the term "fascist" are inaccurate in describing what's happening right now in the US Didn't say that. I'm saying I've seen the term thrown around wildly to apply to all manner of things. Like the other terms. The term is probably fundamentally fucked. If you asked Hitler if he's a Nazi, he'd say yes. If you asked Mussolini if he's a Fascist, he'd say yes. These were the words they used to describe themselves. The reason I'm describing the phenomenon versus blaming the folks using the terms broadly is because I don't think this is a personal failing by anyone as much as something that's linguistically happening.
- trinsic2 9mo agoUnless you are suggesting an alternative word, IMHO, that's a great way to side line people that are actually talking about real harms.
- riedel 9mo agoFunny thing is that in my German neighborhood we have Antifa stickers pretty much on any other street lamp. Given the fascist tendencies all around it actually makes me feel safer...
- JumpCrisscross 9mo ago> in my German neighborhood we have Antifa stickers pretty much on any other street lamp. Given the fascist tendencies all around it actually makes me feel safer My Polish-German godmother asked me, as a kid, "who would you hide." I didn't get the question. And 6-year old me wasn't ready for Holocaust with grandma. But it comes back to me from time to time. Who would you hide. Who would you stake your wealth and life on to keep from undeserved suffering. The stickers are good. But they only mean something if you're willing to fight for them. At least in America, I'm unconvinced most sticker-toters are willing to sacrifice anything. (It's what makes Minnesota and Texas different.)
- vpribish 9mo agowow.. "who would you hide" - christ. thanks for posting that - it's powerful.
- mrsvanwinkle 9mo agoAgreed with other comment thanks so much for posting.
- lbrito 9mo agoIt's wild how it became mainstream in the US to equate Antifa = Bad. Some geniuses proudly, openly self describe as anti antifa. Guess what that double negation makes you?
- radiator 9mo agoWell their view ist that antifa are actually fascists, which makes anti antifa democrats.
- jMyles 9mo agoBut that's really the height of silliness. I can say that all people who describe themselves as 'anticapitalist' are actually capitalists, but that doesn't change anything about those people, the ideology in question, or the world. Are some people who call themselves antifa secretly fascists? I'm sure they are. So?
- jmye 9mo agoThat’s not their view, it’s their propaganda. No one has ever made any actual, credible argument that anything about “antifa” is actually “fascist”.
- sershe 9mo agoIf you are against a self-professed democratic people's republic (of Korea), does that make you anti-democratic or anti-people?
- snypher 9mo agoWell, it makes you antiDPRK. Being anti-antifascist just make you a fascist, or a fascist-adjacent supporter.
- GaryBluto 9mo ago> Being anti-antifascist just make you a fascist, or a fascist-adjacent supporter. If a loose-knit ideology/movement called "Anti-Rapists" emerged that evolved into a cohort of various disconnected thugs who targeted homosexuals for violence, would being Anti-"Anti-Rapist" make you a supporter of rapists or rapist-adjacent supporter?
- hrimfaxi 9mo agoMan everything about this interview is so cringe.
- splatter9859 9mo agoYep. Everything about his body language screams, "I'm doing something slimy and I know it, but here, listen to these words spoken authoritatively whilst I wave my hands around and forget about it." Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
- rhcom2 9mo agoWould have been nice if the interviewer pushed back more than "lol I don't think they would agree". Spineless.
- DavidPiper 9mo agoSpineless seems a bit harsh. The interviewee did open with an unveiled threat of legal action against anyone who disagrees with him.
- wat10000 9mo agoThere was a time when the media would take pride in smacking down some moron who thought they could use the law to suppress speech they don't like.
- direwolf20 9mo agoI heard The Onion still does this
- DavidPiper 9mo ago"The media" in general, sure. They often still do. My point was just that one person not doing this in an intimidating 1:1 interview doesn't make that person spineless.
- tylerchilds 9mo agoPointing cameras at people? Law and order Pointing cameras at cameras? Terrorist organization
- Glant 9mo agoWho watches the watchmen? Terrorists
- mrguyorama 9mo agoThis film is dedicated to the brave freedom fighters of the Mujahideen!
- Fnoord 9mo agoHahaha, Rambo 3.
- Gibbon1 9mo agoThe thing is the billionaires are terrified of US. The point of these surveillance systems isn't to make us safer. Because we're actually pretty safe already. We're not going to be assassinated, kidnapped, or beaten because we pissed someone off. It's to make people like Garrett Langley feel protected from us.
- tavavex 9mo ago> The thing is the billionaires are terrified of US. Are they though? The odds of any kind of coordinated response that could seriously threaten the billionaires seem next-to-none. Flock seems to be a lot more offensive than defensive - it enables the targeting and mass surveillance in order to find and punish the 'right people', as well as mass tracking to create yet another datapoint to understand the way people move, think and coordinate. The defensive side is already covered through internet services, like social media. They don't have much to fear. I reckon that a powerful/rich enough person could kill a stranger on the street in plain view of a huge crowd and have absolutely nothing happen to them.
- tylerchilds 9mo ago“If you’ve got nothing to hide, let me profit off your surveillance”
- text0404 9mo agoThis is an excellent video documenting some Flock camera vulnerabilities by Benn Jordan, a security hobbyist/researcher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY. It's a bit long, but worth it.
- ChrisArchitect 9mo agoSome disucssion on that one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45945960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45945960
- hansjorg 9mo agoHis work on this and similar topics is very good, he has deep technical insight and is a good communicator, but it's a bit funny seeing him referred to as a security hobbyist as in my mind he's a musical genius and one of the greatest living US musicians/programmers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_SxlRQhHOA&list=RDZD8N9tDDQT4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vzXHhRBLnA&list=RDTgoAgYR4584 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHCg47cWIUc&list=RDXHCg47cWIUc
- therobots927 9mo agoSeems like “terrorists” = citizens standing up for their rights. We aren’t past the point of no return but we are rapidly approaching it. What will it be Americans? Liberty or death?
- cucumber3732842 9mo agoThis is a social problem. So long as people want to see Orwellian enforcement on their preferred petty issues (examples abound on HN and elsewhere) this type of activity will ping pong around enforcement subjects likely only growing and ratcheting tighter. Until people get so sick of it on the 11/12 issues they don't like, they're willing to give up the dream of Orwellian enforcement on the thing they do care about.
- theideaofcoffee 9mo agoThese wretched wastes of skin that contribute to the surveillance system need to have the full brunt of that same surveillance apparatus turned toward them full time, published for all to see. This should include elected officials that voted for and paid for these systems as well. You don't want a system that allows more anonymous movement? You want that data collected and stored and collated and analyzed without end? Ok, pull down your pants and have yourselves offered up as the first and most prominent ones to be tracked and then see if you change your tune.
- pear01 9mo agoGood luck trying to subject them to the same level of scrutiny. They live in places with high walls and armed guards, a lot of them don't even drive themselves if they drive at all. Even when using helicopters or planes their private ownership means a lower level of scrutiny. "The plane" was a big part of how Epstein was able to do what he did. Obviously, these types never step foot on public transit. Even if hypothetically speaking you could support volunteers to follow them around and film them, I would think the asymmetry of resources would practically make it impossible. It's not about privacy, it's about wealth. Take their wealth away and then they'll actually have to live the way they tell you to. They don't care because they don't live in the world they are creating, you do.
- direwolf20 9mo agoWhat if a drone with facial recognition could do it? And an ALPR network for their vehicle
- Fnoord 9mo agoShoot down the drone one way or another? Don't you guys have guns? /s
- joezydeco 9mo agoIf we're terrorists for marking Flock cameras on a map, we might as well go all the way and start breaking them.
- TOMDM 9mo agoIf peaceful forms of protest and dissent are delegitemised, only the alternative is left.
- array_key_first 9mo agoIf surveiling the surveillance is terrorism, why isn't the original surveillance terrorism? Makes no sense.
- rireads 9mo agoBut but that wouldn't be the peaceful protest they can ignore
- vgeek 9mo agoFlock (YC17)
- bsimpson 9mo agoI've been online long enough that when I hear "Flock," I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flock_(web_browser) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flock_(web_browser)
- toomanyrichies 9mo ago"Thankfully, we live in a beautifully democratic and capitalistic society where we can fight in court." Of course he's "thankful" for that, since in our "beautifully democratic and capitalistic" society, Flock can use their $658 million of VC funding [1] to wage lawfare against the have-nots with their armies of lobbyists and lawyers. [2] 1. https://websets.exa.ai/websets/directory/flock-safety-funding https://websets.exa.ai/websets/directory/flock-safety-fundin... 2. https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/lobbyists?cycle=2025&id=D000116304 https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/lobbyis...
- ahartmetz 9mo agoFelony contempt of business model? Weak. Today, companies sue for terrorist contempt of business model! https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/06/felony-contempt-business-model-lexmarks-anti-competitive-legacy https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/06/felony-contempt-busine...
- paxys 9mo agoIt isn't even just about money. It's more apparent than ever that freedom, democracy, justice, human rights in this country are increasily reserved for those with the right political alignments.
- therobots927 9mo agoIt’s not so much about political alignment as much as it’s about your bank account.
- ChrisArchitect 9mo ago5 months ago; Source article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2025/09/03/ai-startup-flock-thinks-it-can-eliminate-all-crime-in-america/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2025/09/03/ai-st... Discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45119847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45119847 and at the same time: Pump the Brakes on Your Police Department's Use of Flock Safety https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45128605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45128605
- rationalist 9mo agoThe parent's entire original comment in case anyone is wondering why it was flagged: > 5 months ago? c'mon OP Thankfully OP is posting about it again, because I missed it the first time. Thank you OP!
- da_grift_shift 9mo agoSaw that too.
- ChrisArchitect 9mo ago[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 9mo agoDoes anyone have a template for a network audit that one could request of a local police department that would disclose access logs for Flock Safety data?
- text0404 9mo agoA lot of jurisdictions actually require the data to be public! For example, ctrl-f "download csv" on this page for central LA PD: https://transparency.flocksafety.com/central-la-pd- https://transparency.flocksafety.com/central-la-pd- . Not all jurisdictions require this, but if you can guess the URLs (https://transparency.flocksafety.com/<DEPARTMENT ID>) you can find quite a few, or just Google "YOUR PD flock safety portal". (EDIT: You'll want to regularly download these if you're trying to build a comprehensive record. The PDs I've been monitoring are only required to keep data for 30 days, so the CSVs are just a rolling window cut off at EXACTLY today minus 30 days.) You can also do FOIA requests directly to departments, like this one: https://www.muckrock.com/foi/novato-296/flock-alprs-cameras-in-novato-ca-201840/ https://www.muckrock.com/foi/novato-296/flock-alprs-cameras-... Good news is that even the images captured by the cameras is FOIA-able! https://www.404media.co/judge-rules-flock-surveillance-images-are-public-records-that-can-be-requested-by-anyone/ https://www.404media.co/judge-rules-flock-surveillance-image...
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- benmw333 9mo agoI dislike this person and company. That is putting it mildly.
- culi 9mo agoIf you wanna go a little further than leaving milquetoast comments on the internet: https://alpr.watch/ https://alpr.watch/
- lrvick 9mo agoI would not do this now, but teenage me would be spray painting every lens. Not to give anyone ideas...
- nine_k 9mo agoThis is inefficient. Some semi-transparent laquer applied to the lens that makes the picture permanently blurred would be much less conspicuous.
- culi 9mo agoAn infrared laser beam could also do the trick. The beam would be invisible to the human eye
- culi 9mo agoPeople are so out of touch with how far the US has slipped into surveillance capitalism. You simply cannot get away with doing stuff like that today.
- lrvick 9mo agoNot with that attitude. There are tens of millions of people pirating software and media and blocking ads. There are not enough prisons to hold them all so the law is not enforceable at that scale. Likewise there have always been and will always be effective non violent forms of resistance with sufficient systems of coordination and communication, because the public is always larger in number than the oppressors.
- trinsic2 9mo ago>Not with that attitude. LOL. Love that. You got to have a better attitude if you want to fight the system my friend.
- direwolf20 9mo agoAnd yet, people do. Perhaps by slipping into some unsurveilled hidey hole, changing into a black hoodie, doing the crime, and running away before the police arrive
- cmurf 9mo agoWinning local elections means having the political power and thus economic power to Deflock your town. Telling illiberal authoritarians to go fuck themselves is reasonable. But power is still more important than insults.
- cdrnsf 9mo agoOur city council voted 5-0 to install more. A unanimous vote which includes democrats who ran on disrupting a council that had the same members for decades.
- rationalist 9mo agoIt seems like at the next open mic, people should read FOIA'ed Flock records which shows their car driving by adult store etc.
- josefritzishere 9mo agoWhereas most pf the rest of America considers Flock to be a terrorist organization.
- 4MOAisgoodenuf 9mo agoHis last name being “Langley” is a bit too on the nose. Like something out of a Pynchon novel.
- cm2012 9mo ago[flagged]
- rconti 9mo agoSo crime is down?
- cm2012 9mo agoIt actually is hugely down nationwide, but flock probably had nothing to do with that or very little
- jamiek88 9mo agoSays who? Flock?
- bigbinary 9mo agoThose are statistics given by Flock themselves and are manipulated
- tclancy 9mo ago>helping police solve 700k real crimes per year. Have to ask for a citation there. Also, what are "real crimes"? Also, aren't these cameras? How are they tackling these 700k suspects?
- rimbo789 9mo agoThat figure is straight from Flok's own press release. There were deep deep methological flaws in the calculation of that figure. https://archive.is/7iNyQ https://archive.is/7iNyQ - this is an excellent piece breaking down the many many flaws in that figure and quotes the 2 academics involved who later said highlighted the issues. ->"“This 'study' rings a cacophony of alarm bells: the closer you look at it, the more it looks like a marketing scheme than data science,” Dave Maass, director of investigations at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, told me. “Nobody should be repeating the claims until the data can be verified and the conclusions replicated by independent data scientists without a direct tie to the company that stands to benefit."
- 9mo ago
- laserlight 9mo agoCan we update the title to include the name, Garrett Langley? Everyone should know his name.
- rcakebread 9mo agoSomeone just had to come up with the goofy name "antifa" instead of just using "anti fascist".
- Y-bar 9mo agoIt was originally shortened in German from ”Antifaschistische Aktion” and ”Außerparlamentarische Opposition”. Then that carried over to other languages as a common name. Feel free to go back to the roots! ;)
- Fnoord 9mo agoIt was shortened as the acronym AFA.
- GuinansEyebrows 9mo agodisregarding the history of the term, you see that even posters on Hacker News Dot Com dispute the accuracy of the term "fascism" as applied to contemporary american politics, so what difference would it make? people who are okay with fascistic politics will not distinguish opposition with a name change.
- hareykrishna 9mo agohas anything ever good come out of silicon valley or the wall street? one greedy capitalist after another and you wonder why the world has turn to a shithole! the inequality between the rich and the poor is reaching the level of ambani vs. mumbai slums.
- trymas 9mo agoI “like” how Overton window (??? I hope I use it right) shifted dramatically in USA. - “law and order” is “good”, when _de facto_ most of constitution is not being applied for a year and laws or court orders are applied selectively. Not to say that “law and order” is vastly different depending on the size of your bank account; - “terrorist” now is anything you don’t like, especially if it’s anti establishment. True freedom of speech is now apparently “violence” (and of course this dictatorial (adjacent) government would think that, as it’s biggest danger); - “antifa” is apparently now a boogeyman, though I’d say he used it correctly as he is (apparently) fascist; Also it is forced against people, how population can choose otherwise?
- sjsdaiuasgdia 9mo ago"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition...There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
- kylebebak 9mo ago"For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law"
- paganel 9mo agoThe TV series Person of Interest [1] becomes more on point as years go by, even though by now it has been 15 years since its S1. One of the scenes [2] from that series where "terrorist" are shown as being in control over ghoulish CEOs like the one from this posted video. [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1839578/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1839578/ [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igKb2DhP7Ao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igKb2DhP7Ao
- paganel 9mo agoAnyone aware of people doing something like over here in Europe? And how legal/illegal it might be? I'm talking about putting government-operated security cameras on a map, for the general public to be aware of their locations.
- direwolf20 9mo agoAnything the government doesn't like is terrorism, same as America. You can do it anyway.
- sbuttgereit 9mo agoProbably worth posting some links to the Institute for Justice's "Project on the Fourth Amendment": https://ij.org/issues/ijs-project-on-the-4th-amendment/ https://ij.org/issues/ijs-project-on-the-4th-amendment/ This Project includes work to fight technologies such as Flock's in the courts: https://ij.org/issues/ijs-project-on-the-4th-amendment/license-plate-readers/ https://ij.org/issues/ijs-project-on-the-4th-amendment/licen... I've always felt good contributing to IJ and the topic and takes in the posted video are precisely why I do so.
- andrepd 9mo agoThese clean-shaven wide-eyed SV types give me the uncanny valley heebie-jeebies. Everything, from their tone of voice, to their appearance, to (most importantly) the way they phrase things... there's an almost AI-generated quality.
- takklob 9mo ago[flagged]
- dandanua 9mo agoI swear, every fascist has the same playbook. They use the same phrases, same accusations, same lies, sometimes even same wordings. It is like they have a single hive mind - for which everyone else is the enemy and is subject to destruction or enslaving.
- direwolf20 9mo agoThe Epstein files are revealing a web of surprising connections. Epstein's network knew about 9/11 and made stock trades beforehand. He was personally involved in some UK corruption to lower taxes on bank executives.
- Fnoord 9mo agoYup, the specific one in use here by Flock is accusation in a mirror.
- ian_d 9mo agoMountain View recently turned off their Flock installs after they discovered Flock had enabled data sharing without notice and other agencies were searching through MV data. https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/privacy/2026/02/flock-cameras-shared-license-plate-data-without-permission https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/privacy/2026/02/flock-came... > A separate “statewide lookup” feature had also been active on 29 of the city’s 30 cameras since the initial installation, running for 17 straight months until Mountain View found and disabled it on January 5. Through that tool, more than 250 agencies that had never signed any data agreement with Mountain View ran an estimated 600,000 searches over a single year, according to local paper the Mountain View Voice, which first uncovered the issue after filing a public records request. A different town (Staunton, VA) also turned of their Flock installs after their CEO sent out an email claming: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-ceo-goes-ballistic https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-ceo-goes-... > The attacks aren't new. You've been dealing with this for forever, and we've been dealing with this since our founding, from the same activist groups who want to defund the police, weaken public safety, and normalize lawlessness. Now, they're producing YouTube videos with misleading headlines.
- watwut 9mo agoThe groups and companies that break the law and norms as usual part of business always complain about "lawlessness" when someone opposes them
- pilingual 9mo agoI'd like to see a database of municipalities that have passed an ordinance banning these systems (including 12 hour drone flyovers like they've been doing in Camden, NJ; drones are fine for specific or exigent circumstances, but flying them systematically is concerning!). In fact, if anyone knows of municipalities that have done so let me know. I'd like to spend tourist money in those places that I haven't been able to spend in authoritarian-leaning locales as a reward for valuing freedom over suffocation of the constitution for little to no benefit.
- duped 9mo agoEvanston IL canceled their contract and took down the cameras, then Flock went and reinstalled the cameras.
- JoeDohn 9mo agoI'm honestly tired of all these knuckleheads. They've got a few bucks in their bank accounts and pretend that makes them smarter than everyone else. They're just gaming the system, nothing more, and they have every incentive to keep it alive. He can shove his cameras deep in his ** as far as I'm concerned.
- themafia 9mo ago> They're just gaming the system The "system" is not hapless or ignorant here. In fact, this company would not exist, if the "system" didn't have specific desires to effectively enslave the entire population. Who wouldn't want to become a new age digital pharaoh? Wouldn't this be precisely the type of panopticon they would try to create?
- markhahn 9mo agois it terrorism if it's a corporation who is in terror? no: terror is strictly about civilians.
- 0ldblu3 9mo agoTheir are documented cases of Flock cameras that can see into private residences. What if one of those cameras recorded an underage person? Would Flock be responsible for collecting and distributing CSAM?
- ninalanyon 9mo agoOf course not. CSAM rules apply only the plebs, not the rich and well connected.
- direwolf20 9mo agoWe saw this with Twitter's child porn maker. When it was called out, did Elon turn it off? No he saw it was popular so he paywalled it. He got away with that, but he's only well connected in the US not in France so he didn't get away with it in France.
- tamimio 9mo ago>I like law and order When it benefits me. This guy gives all villain vibes you see in futuristic movies, funny how he resembles a young version of “Fletcher” in minority report movie, a movie about mass surveillance to provide a “safer community” to all. Flock btw isn’t just an ALPR, it is a car finger printing technology, I have seen some videos of police IDing cars with no plates and they knew the owner by using flock cams.
- mlsu 9mo agoTranscript INTERVIEWER: Surveillance is becoming more prevalent everywhere. There's an organization called Deflock that's become fairly well-known in activist circles. They take an aggressive approach—counting cameras and maintaining a Discord channel where they discuss potential activities to move against surveillance expansion and stop organizations like Flock. What's your perspective on this organization and their methods? FLOCK CEO: I see two distinct groups of activists here. There are organizations like the ACLU and the EFF that take an above-board approach to fighting for their viewpoint. We're fortunate to live in a democratic, capitalistic country where we can fight through the courts. I have a lot of respect for those groups because they engage in reasonable debate while following the law. FLOCK CEO: Unfortunately, there are also what I'd call terroristic organizations like Deflock, whose primary motivation appears to be chaos. They're closer to Antifa than anything else. That's disappointing because I don't want chaos - I value law and order and a society built on safety. FLOCK CEO: For those groups, I think it's regrettable they haven't chosen a more constructive approach to achieve their goals. They do have the right to their views, but that's why we have a democratically elected process. We're not forcing Flock on anyone. Elected officials understand that communities and families want safety, and Flock is the best way to create safe communities. INTERVIEWER: Deflock probably wouldn't agree with the "terroristic" label you've applied to them, but... ---- Yeah. "They have a right to their views" buuut also, they are terrorists, and implicitly therefore deserve to have their freedom taken away because of said views. So giving the public a map of flock cameras and organizing to advocate against these being used in our communities is terroristic, I suppose. There's one party here that should be in jail here. Seems like that ought to be the creeps that are filming everyone against their consent, but I guess that makes me a terrorist...
- doctorpangloss 9mo agothe more prosaic (the bear case) POV is that physically mounted outdoor street cameras have the same enforcement limitations as most other enforcement support technologies. flock isn't really bringing "number of unseen crimes" down from 1 to zero, he's bringing it from like 1000 to 999. a flock being easy to disable by a lay person, and a street corner not having witnesses - they're the same thing, it just isn't as good of a technology as he says (or people imagine) it to be. so at the very beginning, the thing that threatens him the most is: simple ideas that sound objective and that make Gary Tan wary of putting $50m instead of $25m. that said, very few things do that, bring "unseen crime" from N to 0. for example, legalization of something does that! he has found a very successful business nonetheless. it's more interesting to explore why. if he wanted to level constructive criticism at Deflock, i suppose we should wonder: how do they disrupt enterprise sales? flock is just, yet another failed IT project. it shouldn't be too hard. obviously, the best thing you can do is getting elected, and simply putting it in the law to not adopt the technology.
- o999 9mo agoFreedom is slavery
- alphazard 9mo agoThis statement essentially boils down to "The only right way to fight me is in an environment where I expect to win" That's how you know the DeFlock strategy is effective. They aren't playing the game that the CEO wants to play, they are playing the actual game. The actual game is minimizing the impact of cameras that are now everywhere. Some individuals may take it upon themselves to vandalize the cameras, which can't be planned via conspiracy (that would be illegal), but those radical individuals can be "set up for success" through information. This strategy of creating an environment where effective vandalism is easy, is also part of the actual game.
- sjs382 9mo agoFlock is a terrorist organization.
- creatonez 9mo agoFlock is a terrorist organization
- runjake 9mo agoThanks for sharing this. It completely destroyed the little respect I had left for Flock. And that they're sharing their data with other non-local agencies (eg. ICE as it stands) without a warrant? That's outrageous, IMHO.
- onetokeoverthe 9mo ago[dead]
- rustyhodge 9mo agoIt's amazing at how terrorism has been re-defined. When I was a kid you had to blow up skyscrapers or planes (or both at the same time), set off bombs in a crowded area, or a specifically targeted mass shooter to be labelled a terrorist.
- golden-face 9mo agoYeah really does show you how it's now (actually for some time) just a label, conveniently morphing over time for people/groups you don't like, losing any actual meaning because it's applied so liberally. And it's ironic because there are clearly "real terrorists" (i.e. 9/11 guys).
- ahartmetz 9mo agoLabeling everyone "terrorists" became fashionable very quickly specifically after 9/11. I think it has decreased by 80-90% or so since then. "Terrorists" used to be everywhere.
- tdeck 9mo agoSpecifically you had to do those things and not be in the US military, or in a military geopolitically aligned with the US.
- davesque 9mo agoIt hasn't been though. These clowns are just using the term disingenuously.
- disposition2 9mo agoI’m not saying it is historically accurate, but I would encourage anyone who didn’t experience interactions with law enforcement pre-9/11 (in the US) to watch early seasons of Law & Order. It is pretty informative, even in the dramatic context of the show, to see police interactions and the respect for / erosion of individual rights when you view the seasons before 9/11/2001 and after 9/11/2001.
- 9mo ago
- 0xbadcafebee 9mo agoWar is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
- direwolf20 9mo agoThe party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
- NautilusWave 9mo agoI've decided that anyone who uses the term "antifa" in a serious, scaremongering manner must be fascist.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- driverdan 9mo agoWell by definition yes. Being anti anti-fascist would imply you're pro-fascist.
- diego_moita 9mo agoThank Mr. Flock CEO! I've never heard about Deflock, but your tantrum motivated me to know it. And I like it! But the best part are the implications: it is ok for Flock to spy people, it isn't ok for people to spy Flock.
- tasty_freeze 9mo agoI wonder how he would feel about a competitor putting a flock-like camera outside his house so that anyone who wants to can learn whenever any car, perhaps his car, enters or leaves his home driveway. Would he be happy with this, or would he become a "terrorist" by objecting?
- Fairburn 9mo agoHe would cry and cry
- FarmerPotato 9mo agoOr tracking the tail number of his private jet, published each time it moves.
- davesque 9mo agoI think the clerk who wouldn't accept my return at Home Depot is a terrorist. Also my cat.
- Fairburn 9mo agoFlock is a terrorist organization. So there. Now what.
- creatonez 9mo ago> Now what Flock's terrorist cameras must be destroyed. With airstrikes and poisoned ice cream.
- Psillisp 9mo agoIf Deflock is 'closer to Antifa than anything else' logically where does that place Flock? Flock is Fa---
- aussieguy1234 9mo agoThose are the same words fascists would use to describe peaceful activist groups such as Deflock. It makes me wonder what his values are.
- Clownworldoff 9mo agoThey are building a surveillance state, LOL. The AI, Datacenters, the flock cameras, slow social media ban, the private police, etc. West, especially USA is slowly getting the taste of their own medicine.
- direwolf20 9mo agoFoucault's boomerang
- einpoklum 9mo agoI didn't even know about flock, and I still don't quite understand what it is, other than that they seem to want everyone being spied upon every second of their lives they're outside the hose, or something. For our protection / against crime / terrorism / pedophiles / communists / zombies or whatever. Usually it's governments and their law enforcement arms that push for that, but in the US private enterprise is king so I guess in this domain as well? Anyway, assuming I've gotten the gist of it - I support De-flocking and de-surveillance'ing and will be happily to carry the label of an antifa terrorist all day long :-)
- mmaunder 9mo ago"Above aboard", "Capitalistic", "Terroristic". Interesting cluster of idiom and register errors. Suggests limited exposure to written English.
- jimt1234 9mo agoHe's looking for air cover from MAGA, trying to get on Trump's radar. Flock is law-and-order. DeFlock is Antifa.
- ece 9mo agoTechno-fascist that leases cameras would like governments to pay him his cut of a "law and order" society. News at 11.
- throwawa1 9mo agoI'm a deflock user - I'm a libertarian. These cameras are a huge privacy violation, its amazing how fast Flock has grown ubiquitous. There is a strong Fourth Amendment argument against Flock, they have a generous interpretation of the constitution that your car has no rights and neither does your license plate therefore you have no privacy while on the road. I've also been on the receiving end of secret Federal subpoenas for private user information at a YC backed startup. They include gag orders and management does not question the orders - they simply comply. It happens more often than you think. However you feel about the current administration, imagine this power in the hands of the other. Flock isn't American in any sense of the word. We should work in our communities, through legal, procedural, and civil means to eliminate these terrible, terrible cameras. The cost is much worse than the benefits on offer.
- fogzen 9mo ago"Terrorism" has become everything the critics of The Patriot Act and post-9/11 rhetoric warned about.
- exabrial 9mo agoFlock is a terrorist organization
- Fnoord 9mo agoDehumanizing other people as terrorists without applying the scholar definition in order to defame them should be called terrorism. Oh wait, defamation is already a thing. Let's just call it that, and it may end up being libel/slander, but the bar seems to be pretty high for that in USA and Europe as well.
- asacrowflies 9mo agoMaking people not feel safe ANYWHERE for being watched is the definition of terror.....
- unethical_ban 9mo agoWe're so busy thinking about if we can enable omnipresent AI surveillance, we didn't stop to think of we should. We must, as a society, reject the full capability of technology to observe the public.
- direwolf20 9mo agoDefinition of terrorism: anything I don't like
- IAmGraydon 9mo agoThis is how all authoritarians of the far right react when they are threatened. Take note - it means you're doing the right thing.
- nickandbro 9mo agoThat's insane. Deflock is a map of Flock cameras. Definition of terrorism is: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. couldn't be further apart from that.
- btown 9mo agoIf corporations can be people, cameras can be people too! Think of the cameras! /s
- DerArzt 9mo agoPlease don't give them ideas like that, even in jest.
- oofbey 9mo agoWhile I think the use of the term “terrorist” is unwarranted, I do think deflock is seeking political change. The decision to use flock is a government policy choice, right?
- vanc_cefepime 9mo agoJust the people’s choice, right? They voted for this government policy, right???!? https://www.coloradopolitics.com/2025/10/22/denver-mayor-extends-flock-camera-contract-against-councils-wishes/ https://www.coloradopolitics.com/2025/10/22/denver-mayor-ext... >> “I was stunned to learn late yesterday that after convening a task force of local and national experts, Mayor Johnston has been negotiating secretly with the discredited CEO of Flock Safety and signing another unilateral extension of this mass surveillance contract with no public process and no vote from the City Council or input from his own task force,” Councilmember Sarah Parady told The Denver Gazette.
- AngryData 9mo agoPolitical parties seek political change too, but that doesn't make them terrorists. Deflock isn't trying to intimidate or cause violence to citizens.
- driverdan 9mo agoReminder that Flock is a YC company and is still listed on YC's site: https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety From what I can tell no one from YC has issued a statement about Flock since the public realized how terrible they are.
- Cipater 8mo agoGarry Tan beating the drum as usual: https://x.com/garrytan/status/2022326673421771228 https://x.com/garrytan/status/2022326673421771228
- helloplanets 9mo agoThis guy is literally smirking while talking about this. It's like he's proud of himself for being able to produce doublespeak so effectively.
- ProllyInfamous 9mo agoTennessee pro-tip: Most trailers do not require license plates. The fee for the first time you get caught without a plate on your registered vehicle is $10 (2nd is $20). Trailer hitch balls do not "count" when considering whether a vehicle's plate is obstructed — I literally have one hung across my Camry, not technically obstructing the plate (but you can't see shit). YMMV. Lasers might be a good offensive, but defense is more important.
- Corrado 9mo agoUnfortunately, you cannot hide by obscuring your license plate. The ALPR system recognizes vehicles by type, color, and any outstanding features (bumper stickers, trailers, etc.) So, even if you removed your license plate completely they would still be able to track your car as a blue, 1999 Toyota Camry, with a "I love Peaches" sticker in the back window.
- ProllyInfamous 9mo agoYou are correct. Although I drive a very common car/color, it is naïve to think that these systems aren't monitoring me as the grey sedan without visible license plate. I did remove the bumper stickers [0] My local newspaper retracted a story this month about how the police were able to locate a certain colored vehicle within minutes. Perhaps it was too revealing for general consumption? My "obstruction" is more (legal) protest? Better to just move to a de-flocked city/state..? [•] https://xkcd.com/1105/ https://xkcd.com/1105/ [License Plate Police] [0] I consider this similar to how some property appraisal maps allow people to remove their names from searches (either through LLC or black-out), but you can still request beneficial owner information of specific parcels; just one/two additional layers of protection to throw off the scent (have to know what you're looking for, not just simple plate# lookup — although I'm sure there are aliases/forwarders in advanced CCTVai systems).
- queenkjuul 9mo agoIf i were the kind of person to say "i told you so" (and i am), i would point out that people have been screaming since like 1994 that the term "terrorist" is a tool of the state to punish anyone they find inconvenient. Unfortunately for me i was born in 1991 and so i wasn't actually screaming in 1994 or 1998 or 2001 or 2003 but god damnit EVERYONE just decided "ah, typical left wing cranks" and said fuck it, let's let the president do whatever he wants, it's fine? Obama executed a US citizen without trial on allegations of terrorism. I was absolutely screaming then.
- insane_dreamer 9mo agois there a list of municipalities where Flock has installed cameras? I'd like to check if they're in our town
- toomanyrichies 9mo agoThe liberty at stake here is freedom of movement without a permanent, searchable record. There's a meaningful difference between "a person can see you in public" and "a corporation logs your plate, location, and timestamp thousands of times a month and makes it queryable." The Supreme Court moved in this direction in Carpenter v. United States, when it ruled that accessing historical location records constitutes a search even when the individual data points were shared with a third party, because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Some real-world examples of "the whole being greater than the sum of its parts": - If your plate and another person's plate consistently show up at the same locations at the same times, that's evidence of a relationship. Now multiply that across everyone. You can map social networks, figure out who's meeting with who, identify affair partners, figure out who attends the same AA meeting every Tuesday. - Regular trips to a mosque, a church, a union hall, a gun range, a protest staging area, a political campaign office. No single trip is meaningful, but the pattern over months tells you someone's affiliations and beliefs. - Repeated visits to an oncology clinic, a methadone clinic, a fertility specialist, a psychiatrist's office. That's health information that would normally be protected under HIPAA if obtained through medical channels. - When you leave for work, when you come home, what routes you take, when your house is empty. This is exactly the kind of information a stalker would want, and it's sitting in a database that (depending on the jurisdiction) may have minimal access controls. The key point is that none of these individual observations are particularly sensitive. It's the longitudinal aggregation that transforms mundane location data into an intimate portrait of someone's life. And importantly, that portrait exists for essentially every driver, not just people under investigation. You could argue that the 4th Amendment constrains state action, not corporate behavior. But it's not like Flock is collecting this data for some independent commercial purpose and the government occasionally subpoenas it. The product is government surveillance, just privatized. Outsourcing surveillance to a private contractor to avoid 4th Amendment scrutiny is arguably worse than the government doing it directly, because it bypasses the oversight mechanisms that keep the government in check (or at least, are supposed to do so).
- joriJordan 9mo ago[flagged]
- mvdtnz 9mo agoWhat's Flock? What's Deflock? Why should I care? There's absolutely no context but just another smug American with that same accent as all the other smug American dickhead CEOs speaking in that exact American CEO way they all do (is there like a school or something they all go to?).
- padjo 9mo agoGenuinely hilarious that this is banned off the front page. A YC alum is calling people who publish data terrorists and the fascism apologist bros are like "this site isn't for politics"
- ChoGGi 9mo agoJesus buddy, you're not supposed to drink the Kool-Aid. "I put cameras in your neighbourhood to track every aspect of your public life" == Apple pie and sunshine "You get together with your neighbours and make a map of their locations" == terrorist
- Kim_Bruning 9mo agoIt's interesting to read how flock is positioning themselves as all pro-law-and-order. In countries where I hang out in, Flock would be pretty much illegal.
- Kim_Bruning 9mo agoOk, so after a bit of research: In the Netherlands the municipality would remove all the cameras; and the national authorities would fine the company into the ground and arrest key persons. In Belgium much the same, except multiple overlapping authorities would tear it apart. Germany would dissolve the company, destroy their data, hunt down many of the employees for criminal conspiracy; and the Bundestag would hear of it. Germany has... experience. [1] [1] Depending on legal theory. I'm going for the good old 'and we're going to put them in prison for 200 years' worst case scenario. ;-)
- int_19h 9mo agoIt's not just Flock positioning themselves that way. It's that they have broad support from American police and other law enforcement agencies. My state (WA) is currently trying to pass a bill that places considerable restrictions on Flock - not an outright ban, but limits on data sharing, how long data can be retained etc; really basic stuff that you'd think wouldn't be controversial. So far as I can tell, every single LEO organization in the state is vocally against it.
- blacklight 9mo agoYou know that you are dealing with a fascist scumbag the moment you hear "terrorist", "antifa" and "law and order" in the same phrase. Flock is a disgrace for the industry, and this fascist sociopath is a disgrace for mankind.