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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
- mrKola 2y agoAmerica should invade it, and get done with it.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y agoLooks like the main reason is - Cuba's two main benefactors stopped supplying fuel on the cheap, as they have their hands full with their own crises.
- anovikov 2y agoI see it as complete opposite. They did it because they could: for a long while, U.S. admitted virtually everyone as a refugee without even an attempt to cook up a plausible story. That happened only in 2022-2024. It's a no brainer to see no one ever wanted to live in Cuba. Trick is having a place to go. Until the politically opportunistic immigration loophole was closed this year, they had.
- paleotrope 2y agoCuba would be quite a desirable place to live if it wasn't a socialist authoritarian state
- inglor_cz 2y agoAs the old joke from behind the Iron Curtain said... Q: "What would happen in Saudi Arabia if Communism triumphed there?" A: "First, shortage of oil, later, shortage of sand." Edit: for all the downvoters, shortages were our daily lived experience when I was a kid. I still remember chasing such rare stuff as "kid's sneakers" or "toilet paper". And Czechoslovakia was still better off than neighbouring Poland, where you could walk into a shop and find literally nothing in the shelves. The black market was the only thing that reliably worked.
- logicchains 2y agoIt's funny because Saudi Arabia's neighbour Yemen is the only gulf state that had a (Soviet-sponsored) socialist government, and maybe not entirely coincidentally is an order of magnitude poorer than the other gulf states, and has done a terrible job of tapping its oil resources.
- inglor_cz 2y agoNow that you mention it, this really looks like more than just a coincidence.
- OJFord 2y agoWasn't that deliberate oppression though? Not that I'm pro-communism as an ideal or anything (I favour free-market conservatism) I'm just not sure it can be blamed for ineptitude/mismanagement there as the joke implies?
- inglor_cz 2y agoIt was mostly incompetence mixed with a lot of corruption and petty theft. Publicly owned businesses had no incentives to compete on quality, had to fulfill centralized plans designed by distant bureaucrats that weren't completely attached to reality. Western products were mostly unavailable or extremely costly, so no substitution possible. Lots of ossified monopolies. Factory leaders were often chosen on the base of being someone's nephew or protégé rather than expert. If you applied for a phone line (plain old copper wire), you could wait up to 10 years before you actually got it, as there was a waiting list of 300 000 applicants in a country of 15 million ... ugh. The mess. It is hard to describe the omnipresent dysfunction of everyday life back then. Communism was a theoretical system dreamed out by intellectuals who never engaged in any commerce. All the violent oppression aside, economic side of Communism was just crazily inefficient.
- 1oooqooq 2y agoevery "open and capitalist" country also had 10yrs wait for a copper phone line. besides the top 3 countries economically at the time from were you hear your make believe stories, most other countries until the 80sv phone line contacts were used to buy cars and homes. sometimes the lines were not even installed.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y agoConditions have deteriorated drastically in recent years, food production down 70% from a few years ago.
- Quarrel 2y ago> Trick is having a place to go. Until the politically opportunistic immigration loophole was closed this year, they had. What loophole changed? The Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966 still applies. They get automatic Green Cards. Not sure it is fair to call legislation implicitly giving them work permits and a path to residency a loophole.
- cmrdporcupine 2y agoCuba was hit extremely hard by the COVID crisis, is my understanding. Not just internal policies and procedures, but consider that tourism is Cuba's #1 industry. And not many of us Canadians, etc. were heading down there spring 2020, winter 2021 or even winter 2022...
- amunozo 2y agoThis is almost Ukraine's levels.
- bearjaws 2y ago[flagged]
- lukevp 2y agoThe paroled non-citizens who don’t have voting rights are going to vote for trump in droves? How would this be possible exactly?
- manquer 2y agoPerhaps OP means the Cuban Americans who fled before are generally pretty right wing - which is why they were persecuted by far left regime of Castro in the first place- will likely vote for Trump. It is also perhaps possible that those citizens don't like the new wave of immigrants, it is not uncommon for groups to try and raise the ladder behind them so to speak. A surprisingly large percentage immigrants are anti-immigration .
- seniorivn 2y agomost anti-immigration folks, are for controlled immigration process, instead of droves of people crossing the borders And to be honest being on the other side of the board, the immigration process is a mess
- manquer 2y agoThis phenomenon is not limited to immigrants. It has been observed with many types of groups like say women in corporate leadership The reason being that they had it difficult and therefore it shouldn’t be easy for the next person
- manquer 2y ago> It's hilarious I would hope that humanitarian aid and relief are based only on need and not on any political calculus.
- BurningFrog 2y ago[flagged]
- giancarlostoro 2y agoI wonder what a sensible way forward for Cubans is, and their government. What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. Cuba would be a great travel destination. Their cigars aren't as on par anymore as far as I know, but there's potential there, Nicaragua and Dominican Republic basically make the best ones last I checked.
- wkat4242 2y agoWhy does the US still have sanctions on them anyway? The missile crisis was 50 years ago. It's time to forgive.
- stackskipton 2y agoPolitics. Florida used to be swing state in Presidential Elections. The Cuban community in Florida loses their shit if President talks about lifting the sanctions and will vote other way. If all Cubans had settled in California or Wyoming, we likely would have lifted sanctions a long time ago since they wouldn't have as much political power. It's why we lifted sanctions on Vietnam so long ago. Vietnamese who fled mostly immigrated to California and can't impact California voting Democrat.
- rqtwteye 2y agoIt almost seems the Cuban exiles want the people they left behind in Cuba to suffer as much as possible. What else have the sanctions achieved?
- stackskipton 2y agoThere seems to be a belief that if sanctions remain THIS YEAR, regime change will come to Cuba. It didn't work. Well, NEXT YEAR they will, they have to! Repeat for 50 years. Most people fleeing Cuba blame current regime for their suffering with good reason. So they have a desire to see it overthrown.
- V__ 2y ago> Most of those migrants have come to the United States in what experts call the most significant migration wave in Cuban history. With the destabilization that a population drop of 10% has, the potential for more migration in the long term and the associated costs... Wouldn't it make sense for the U.S. to invest and help Cuba? It would also have the additional benefit of maybe depriving Russia of an ally.
- chaorace 2y agoThe current U.S. position towards Cuba continues to puzzle me. Their geopolitical stance is nowhere near being on the same level as North Korea or Iran. Given Cuba's proximity and relative productive capacity you'd think that we'd be easy allies if only they hadn't upset a bunch of dead politicians 60 years ago.
- seniorivn 2y agoThey are a hostile dictatorship, with zero resources but their oppressed people. Why would USA be interested in allying with them?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- atlas_hugged 2y agoTheir government is hostile like a friend’s chihuahua. It will make it known it doesn’t like you, but it ain’t going to do anything about it because it can’t. The people on the other hand are truly wonderful human beings that would love to be able to have visitors or visit other countries themselves. Who cares if some politicians feelings get hurt. People want to be free to do what they want in a supposedly free country.
- joshlemer 2y ago> it ain’t going to do anything about it because it can’t And, it can't because it's too poor to be able to do anything, which is partly a result of the sanctions.
- oldpersonintx 2y ago[flagged]
- lWaterboardCats 2y agoSetting the tired debate of communism vs capitalism aside, Cuba has a government that puts itself above its own constitution.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ein0p 2y agoIf I were Xi Jinping, I’d step in quite heavily at this point. A few billions in investment would do wonders there. I’m sure a hypersonic nuke base could also be negotiated in return.
- danggggggggggg 2y ago[flagged]
- InTheArena 2y agoHe’d much rather the USA just invaded it, subjugated all its people while proclaiming that it is a long held part of the post-Kennedy American empire. Fits his narrative better.
- ein0p 2y agoI think he’d much rather have a permanent and painful boil on America’s ass, like what the US has in Taiwan. Mexico isn’t cooperating, so maybe Cuba will. There’s precedent for that kind of thing, as well as for US military getting its ass handed to it while trying to “subjugate” Cuba.
- InTheArena 2y agoThankfully even CcP authoritarians have more sense than this. China is and will continue to foment unrest in South America to play the same role, but after watching china rape Africa’s resources for the last decade, they are far less likely to capitulate.
- ein0p 2y agoThe correct name of the party is the CPC. “CCP” is a good indicator for propaganda.
- mr90210 2y agoWell it turns out Xi is smarter than such idea because he’s learnt from history. Does the name Nikita Khrushchev ring a bell?
- xyzzy4747 2y ago[flagged]
- pasquinelli 2y agochina's doing good. or is china not doing good, somehow? or are they not communist, somehow? meanwhile, america is a farce...
- atlas_hugged 2y agoEverything is a farce. Everything is made up. People in power are always just the most high functioning sociopaths that clamor for it, communism or not.
- olalonde 2y ago> or are they not communist, somehow? How are they? They have a market economy. Plus, the US has greater government spending (as % of GDP) than China.
- energy123 2y agoTheir system is quite capitalist since Deng, and they're not doing that well compared to Taiwan which is as close to an A/B test as you'll get.
- westpfelia 2y agoI mean when there is mass embargoes against your country so much so that normal everyday things we take for grated are hard to get things can become tough. But we could also just say "lamo commy dont werk" without understanding the geopolitical reasons for why a country might be struggling.
- MaxPock 2y agoNeither does capitalism
- atlas_hugged 2y ago[flagged]
- basisword 2y agoIt's interesting reading the opinions in the comments on this thread. As a non-US person, I don't have a strong opinion on Cuba. I'd like to visit someday but don't know much about it other than the headlines. Reading the comments here it sounds like a pariah state on the level of North Korea. With 1m people leaving in a year, it clearly has its issues - but lots of the comments here are a good example of how your country's media and propaganda can significantly colour your opinions. I don't get the feeling many other countries continue to have such a negative opinion of Cuba. Are there any countries other than the US that has a strong negative opinion on Cuba? I'm also curious if anyone comes from a country that has a significant negative opinion on another country that others might find surprising?
- forrestthewoods 2y ago> Are there any countries other than the US that has a strong negative opinion on Cuba? It appears that Cubans have a strong negative opinion on Cuba.
- brigadier132 2y ago[flagged]
- rightbyte 2y agoIf anything Cuba is heavely romanticized outside the US I believe.
- totallywrong 2y agoMaybe it used to be, probably because the Castro and Guevara rebellion is a great story. But today I feel that everyone knows that it backfired and the country is in shambles due to terrible totalitarian leaders.
- mbrubeck 2y agoThe US has by far the world’s largest ex-Cuban population (well over 1M people). Those communities are a big part of what shapes US perceptions and policy toward Cuba.
- Acrobatic_Road 2y agoIt has also has an extremely low fertility rate.
- tehjoker 2y agoCuba's economy is not doing well because of the illegitimate and illegal US embargo. End the blockade. Take Cuba off the completely farcical State Sponsors of Terror list. Let Cuba live! Cuba developed its own COVID vaccine but couldn't give it to its own people because they could not buy metal for syringes. Its fucking crazy.
- WorkerBee28474 2y ago> illegitimate and illegal US embargo Illegitimate and illegal according to what authority? Unless you believe in God, there is no higher authority than the US government and its military might.
- bawolff 2y agoInternational law? That said, i don't think sanctions violate intl law. You are under no obligation to trade with people you dont like. A blockade probably would be (generally blockades are an act of war which is only allowed in defense or if un security council approves) however america isnt blockading it. Things can morally wrong without being illegal.
- matrix87 2y agointernational law in itself means almost nothing, it's just a convenient excuse for the more powerful to threaten the less powerful
- bawolff 2y agoSo like normal law then?
- WorkerBee28474 2y agoInternational law isn't real. You can tell it's not real because if it were real there would be real repercussions for violating it. There aren't, so it isn't. It's just words made up for politicking and persuasion.
- choeger 2y agoWell, that explains why Cuban cigars are impossible to get since a couple of years...
- jmyeet 2y agoI really want people to understand that a sterile term like "economic sanctions" really means "starving them to death". It's not just food. It's the infrastructure necessary to grow food and to have clean drinking water. It's basic medicines, life-saving stuff. What we, as a country, have done and continue to do to Cuba is absolutely unconscionable. It affects us too. Over the last 60+ years there have hundreds of thousands or even millions of Cuban migrants to the US. This [1] claims 2.7 million but includes US-born descendants. Cuban migrants aren't a random sample of Cubans. They skew very much anti-Castro, which means by extension they skew very pro-Batista. Definitely right-leaning or even pro-fascist [2[. Importing fascist or fascist adjacent people who ultimately became voters has changed US politics where Florida is now a safely red state. Here's more on the demographics of Cubans in Miami in particular [3]. I find it interesting how this aspect of immigration is so often missed or glossed over. There is absolutely no justification for continuing 60+ years of sanctions just because our puppet was deposed. [1]: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/cuban-immigrants-united-states-2021 https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/cuban-immigrants-uni... [2]: https://time.com/archive/6762287/cuba-batista-backfire/ https://time.com/archive/6762287/cuba-batista-backfire/ [3]: https://latinostudies.nd.edu/assets/95278/original/grenchun.pdf https://latinostudies.nd.edu/assets/95278/original/grenchun....
- jimmar 2y agoThe UN, UK, and EU have no sanctions imposed on Cuba [1]. Why has no other country prevented Cuba from "starving to death?" Honest question. Is the United States so powerful that our trade is the only thing keeping countries alive? [1] https://globalsanctions.co.uk/region/cuba/ https://globalsanctions.co.uk/region/cuba/
- Devasta 2y agoSecondary sanctions. If your company trades with Cuba, then companies that want to trade with the US also violate the sanctions by trading with you. So even something as basic as opening a bank account in such circumstances isn't possible, as no bank will cut themselves off from the entire worldwide banking system just to provide you an account.
- labrador 2y agoI support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. A Somali-American former investigator: why you’re hearing about fraud in my community https://minnesotareformer.com/2024/07/17/a-somali-american-investigator-heres-why-youre-hearing-so-much-about-fraud-in-my-community/ https://minnesotareformer.com/2024/07/17/a-somali-american-i...
- tonynator 2y ago[flagged]
- minicoz 2y agodamn west coast elites living in fantasyland.
- AnarchismIsCool 2y agoImmigrants are substantially less likely to be involved in crime than US born persons. Don't make stuff up if you can't find a reputable source. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31440/w31440.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31440/w314...
- tonynator 2y ago[flagged]
- AnarchismIsCool 2y agoIf you're going to make the argument undocumented immigrants are murdering everyone, you have to actually cite something. This is conjecture.
- riffic 2y agoperhaps it's time to normalize relations with their government and end the blockade.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- wildrhythms 2y ago"No." -The U.S. and Israel https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/un-votes-end-us-embargo-cuba-us-israel-oppose-2023-11-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/un-votes-end-us-embar...
- kjellsbells 2y agoThe problem commonly skated over is that two views cam be true at once. For example: - the "Batista" regime was dictatorial and repressive. The people fought back with Castro. The first wave of people to land in Miami were essentially the moneyed class who lost everything. Unsurprisingly they hate the Castro regime and its descendents. The US government were happy to accommodate them under the guise of anti communism. - the "Castro" regime is dictatorial and repressive. The people cant fight back so they leave. The people landing in Miami and their descendents hate the regime for taking everything. The US Republicans are happy to accommodate them under the guise of sticking it to the libs. I dont see any of this changing until the regime changes in Cuba to a more democratic one simultaneously with the Republican party imploding in Florida. Which basically means not in my lifetime.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- epolanski 2y ago> the "Castro" regime is dictatorial and repressive. As someone whose family comes from the former Soviet union, and has friends that come from other repressive places let me tell you that this really doesn't matter. Economy and how you are doing are what matters in the day to day life of people. People really don't think about the oppression or lack of elections, they care how much they need to suffer to put food on the table, whether they can afford vacations on the beach, how expensive it's gonna be, etc etc. I consistently asked my grandparents and people from oppressive places whether they cared about politics and no they didn't. They knew that people across the borders lived the same lives they did, but they could afford a better car and better vacations that's all. The average Joe does not care about politics, even those who talk about it and share on social media don't care. The amount of people that campaign, try to get elected, try to do anything even in their own neighborhood has always been low and probably never as low as now.
- its_ethan 2y agoThey may not care about the politics, but if the politics is what contributes to the economy / shortages / difficulty in getting things like food... then the politics matter, regardless of if any given citizen is consciously aware of it. And as a reciprocal anecdote, I have family that grew up behind the iron curtain - and they were very much aware of and knew the importance of the governments politics
- surfingdino 2y agoThis plus low fertility rates paint a bleak demographic picture. What happens to a country whose population collapses? I don't think we have past data to reference here?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- joecool1029 2y agoAgain and again I've been arguing for access to information. Let Cuba land an underwater cable in Miami. Ever since I was young I was fed this line 'Glasnost helped accelerate the collapse of the Soviet Union, people wanted things their government wouldn't give them... free access to information not filtered by their government', but the US argues for some reason that Cubans can't have this. Is it fear of an even bigger migration? Why? Is it expat Cubans looking to kick out the ladder?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nradov 2y agoI agree with you, but if Cuba wants better Internet access there's nothing stopping them from landing an underwater cable in Mexico. It's about the same distance.
- joecool1029 2y agoExcept Mexican government has a relationship with the US government and if US says 'don't do this' to Mexico there's not much upside to them going through with it. Also maybe consider this? A substantial amount of news/rhetoric in the US revolves around US/Mexico border problems. Do you think Cuban expats want Cuba to be associated with Mexico in any way?
- nradov 2y agoNonsense. Mexico already has an active trade relationship with Cuba. The US hasn't done anything about it.
- epolanski 2y agoRussians didn't give two shits about "free access to information", they cared to see that people in US lived richer lives that's it. Russians in Soviet union had to illegally trade and commit felonies to get their hands on some Italian mortadella. They had to go through insane lengths to buy a new tv. It wasn't glasnost but the oil crisis that ultimately killed the SU's economy and made people think that in democracy it was gonna be better. Is it better? In absolute terms, yes, but so is virtually everyone in the world compared to 1989. In terms of gdp per capita Soviet russia was 33rd in the world in that year. Modern Russia is 52nd. But you wouldn't be able to say that such a massive decline happened when modern Russia is far cleaner, richer and very low unemployment. Modern Russians are richer in absolute terms, but poorer in relative ones.
- BurningFrog 2y agoNote that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba. The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them.
- wslh 2y agoThe article exactly says "US embargo".
- BurningFrog 2y agoSure, but a lot of people seem to think Cuba is cut off from world trade. They're only cut off from one country. Someone called it a "blockade" on this page.
- spacebanana7 2y agoCuba’s ability to trade with the rest of the world severely impaired by the US embargo. Most international banks get very nervous about facilitating transactions involving Cuba and even tourists who visit Cuba can have their travel to the US restricted. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requirements https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requireme...
- mgbmtl 2y agoCuba rarely stamps passports to avoid those problems. They give you a piece of paper with a stamp, that you return on your way out.
- berdario 2y agoAt minute 12:33 in this video it explains the 180-days rule and other details: https://youtu.be/WgWK6_AYq_o?si=5aqdt7DW-gYd7XdN https://youtu.be/WgWK6_AYq_o?si=5aqdt7DW-gYd7XdN it might not be completely cut off, but the embargo is harsh, especially for an island ot only 10M people
- incahoots 2y agoThe US embargo includes NATO members. I don’t have the source handy at the moment but it’s clear that any current trade partners with the US would be violating the embargo if they attempt read with Cuba.
- pstrateman 2y ago[flagged]
- windowshopping 2y agoThis happened 50 years ago. I think we can let it go and worry about more current matters. I can't imagine still being hung up on this.
- whimsicalism 2y agoi don’t care about this at all
- dyauspitr 2y agoBeyond irrelevant.
- trhway 2y ago>Other factors were a high number of deaths, 405,512, With such a population churn the chances of dying at sea while trying to run away don’t look that bad.
- greyvddhb 2y agoDid US sanctions cause this? Why or why not?
- moneywoes 2y agoHow has this affected the country?
- icar 2y agoThis happens because of the US embargo, so I'll blame US until they stop.
- Manuel_D 2y agoThe embargo has been in place for most of a century, and was actually relaxed recently.
- incrudible 2y agoCubans can not eat your blame.
- PentiumBug 2y agoAs a Cuban that is currently living in Cuba, I think it might be useful to voice my opinions, as I have read some comments here which I consider less than accurate in some respects. To avoid typing too much, I'll summarize with... bullet points? * The published figure of 10 million people is already outdated. First, they are official figures, which means that they are not telling the truth. Second, six months have elapsed; which means the actual number of residents is less than 9 million. * Not only a large amount of people are gone, but most of them are young, productive people; lots of them professionals in several critical aspects of a functioning society. Where I work I'm only one of the few that remains in my activity (IT & IT adjacent). * Also gone are many of the more... reactive? brave? People that voiced discontent with the government and just chose to leave. What remains are relatively elderly people that are very conformist, or simple are not brave enough to voice their concerns. * Is Cuba a dictatorship? No. * Is Cuba a totalitarian state? Absolutely. The Cuban Communist Party is the only one allowed, as is written in the (relatively recent) Constitution. Even more than that, it exists above the Constitution, so this texts has no value at all. * Are there human rights violations in Cuba? Yes, no doubt. * Does the US embargo negatively impacts Cuba? Absolutely. Every single day, for the common people, that is. The elites? The top dogs of the Party? Of course they are unaffected; they are your run of the mill corrupt people in power, and they can have anything. * Can Cuba trade with other countries? In theory, yes... in practice, it is very difficult. In addition, Cuba is a minuscule market that interests no one. China, for instance, has very little presence in Cuba, despite we being "allies". But they don't care. I don't know how this could unfold in the future, except with a total collapse. I really wish the end of the embargo, and the possibility of open an free elections. We, common people, are at the mercy of US politics and being managed by inmensely incompetent leaders. We could debate all week on who's at fault here, who threw the first stone, but, as of this moment, that would be sterile. This country will be gone.
- useconoterror 2y ago[flagged]
- lucubratory 2y agoThis just does not seem plausible. Sure, I understand the claim that Cuban statistics are falsified because the Cuban government is obviously biased about whether "Cuba is good", but the claims about Cuban emigration are coming from groups that are very distinctly anti-Cuban themselves; why should I trust them to tell the truth about Cuba, particularly when lying about your enemies is incredibly effective, common, and completely unpunished?
- daemoens 2y agoThe published figure of 10 million people is already outdated. First, they are official figures, which means that they are not telling the truth. Second, six months have elapsed; which means the actual number of residents is less than 9 million.
- michtzik 2y agoHere's the opening sentence of TFA: > A stunning 10% of Cuba’s population — more than a million people — left the island between 2022 and 2023, the head of the country’s national statistics office said during a National Assembly session Friday, the largest migration wave in Cuban history. Is Cuba's national statistics office "distinctly anti-Cuban"?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- diogenes_atx 2y agoThere is absolutely no doubt that the Cuban economy is suffering through a severe crisis. However, mass emigration offers some benefits to the Communist regime. Many of the migrants who work in the USA send money back to their families in Cuba in the form of remittances, which provide valuable foreign exchange reserves to help pay for essential imports. Moreover, emigration provides an escape for those people who might otherwise form a potentially powerful class of under-employed and politically discontent civilians. If Cuba’s emigrants were still living on the island, then the Communist regime would have good reason to worry about a mass revolution, as shown by the experience of the Arab Spring, when authoritarian governments in Syria, Libya and Egypt, each struggling with rising demographic pressures and economic stagnation, were destabilized by popular rebellion. The Communist elite is certainly aware of the dangers to its regime from a potential “Cuban Spring,” and thus likely regards mass emigration as a welcome alternative, despite the obvious social liabilities of losing so much human capital.
- woodruffw 2y agoCan you explain this? I'm pretty sure Cuban migrants to the US can't remit money to Cuba; that's one of the key points of the sanctions.
- ndneighbor 2y agoAs a Miami native, I can tell you for a fact Cuban remittances do indeed happen. The sanctions loosened after the Obama admin d'tente even after the Trump admin restored most of the controls. My alma matter https://cri.fiu.edu/cuban-america/remittance/ https://cri.fiu.edu/cuban-america/remittance/ has a continued focus of research to see how much flows go back to island nation. Anyway tl;dr is that Cubans use: https://havanaship.net/nueva-agencia-de-remesas-a-cuba-orbit https://havanaship.net/nueva-agencia-de-remesas-a-cuba-orbit, which is a gov't controlled remittance operator. As of commenting isn't on the OFAC controlled entity list. It used to be sanctioned after the previous remittance operator was associated with the Cuban Army but is now in compliance.
- woodruffw 2y ago
- BenFranklin100 2y agoThe United States is singular in its ability to assimilate immigrants. It is our one true superpower. The people who come to our country, like these Cubans fleeing their country, often come from societies where they lack freedoms Americans take for granted. Many Americans scarcely even acknowledge these freedoms but immigrants with their outside eye see them clearly. In doing so they refresh our founding ideals of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. As a fourth generation American and midwesterner, I welcome these Cuban immigrants.
- CamelCaseName 2y agoWhat a cruel thing to say when it is precisely because of the United States that the Cuban economy has been thoroughly crushed.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoThis is false. The US does not interfere with Cuban internal economy nor does the US Cuban trade embargo prevent Cuba from trading with other countries. Cuba’s disastrous economy is a direct consequence of the policies of its communist government, not external forces.
- robocat 2y ago> The United States is singular Maybe in the past, but now other countries now have wayyy more immigrants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_immigrant_and_emigrant_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_im... Shows foreign born 15% of USA. Countries like Australia have 30% foreign born immigrants.
- slantedview 2y agoRelevant reminder that Cuba has been under a brutal economic embargo and sanctions regime by the US for decades, which is the primary driver of Cuba's economic situation. The sanctions began during an era of land reform that saw American corporations, such as United Fruit, lobbying the US to overthrow the Cuban government on their behalf. When that failed, the US imposed sanctions.
- systemstops 2y agoThe arguments in favor of immigration are usually economical, but the resultant demographic change is a major force of disruption in our societies and the cause of many current social problems. My home state of California is an radically different place now than when I grew up only a few decades ago because of demographic change caused by immigration. The question needs to be asked "How much do you want your nation to change?" in exchange for the alleged economic benefits. Blaming the social problems caused by immigration on citizens because of "xenophobia" when they never wanted mass immigration in the first place is the height of arrogance. The pro-immigration people want the economic benefits of immigration while shifting the blame for the inevitable social problems on the poor citizens who are often victims of these social problems. It's sick.
- zombiwoof 2y agoI remember when I was called a Dago in NYC as a kid Yeah all us Italians are just dirty mafiaosa
- localfirst 2y agoi hope americams know what they are doing ex) France, Uk, Germany
- technick 2y agoSo they would rather flee like cowards instead of staying to fix the issues suffering their country. We don't need more cowards in America either.
- EGreg 2y ago[flagged]
- worldwidelies 2y ago[dead]
- seydor 2y agoIn southern europe we call this "Brain drain". It's a global phenomenon it seems, freedom of movement leads to contentration of productive forces to a few global cities, while the rest of the planet is increasingly deserted
- mattmaroon 2y agoDoesn’t brain drain imply the smarter people are moving? I’m not sure that’s what’s happening here. I think it’s anyone who can get out. When I was in Havana our AirBnB was next to the Spanish embassy. There was a long line every morning of potential emigres waiting for their turn. (I have no idea how the process works when they get to the front of the line, I just was told they were trying to get out of the country legally. ) After spending a couple weeks in Cuba it’s not hard to see why.
- seydor 2y agoTrue, it's now also "Hands drain" too. The phenomenon has accelerated. Even (illegal) immigrants are moving to richer countries
- mfru 2y ago> After spending a couple weeks in Cuba it’s not hard to see why. Which is the consequence of being sanctioned into oblivion for decades by the global hegemon, much to the dislike of the entire rest of the world.
- avidphantasm 2y agoNot a single mention in these comments of the US Embargo against Cuba. I’m sure Cuba has problems that are not directly because of the Embargo, but the Embargo makes dealing with all other problems much more difficult. Until the Embargo is lifted, I don’t see why people expect good outcomes for Cubans.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ngcazz 2y agoAgree, although that expectation is a result of manufactured consent entirely consistent with imperialist logic - downplay the major factors (because you are their instigator) then blame the victim for their predicament.
- throwaway199956 2y agoWhat are the numbers for Haiti?
- vt85 2y ago[dead]
- drowntoge 2y agoAh, the good old “My racism is actually okay because facts” thread of Hacker News.
- mrthrowaway999 2y agoI see a lot of mentions here of the US embargo as if it's the only factor in why Cuba is so poor. Unfortunately, it appears to be mostly misinformation. Noah Smith lays out quite well why Cuba's poor state is mainly due to poor policy of the single party state: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/why-cuba-is-having-an-economic-crisis https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/why-cuba-is-having-an-economic... Additionally, just skimming the wiki page about Cuba's economy points out how false the embargo narrative is: Cubas top export partners are China, Spain, Netherlands, and Germany. Cuba's top import partners are: Spain, China, Italy, Canada, Brazil, and... The US. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba It's ironic that there's a comment here supporting the misinformation about the embargo that points out how this state of affairs lasts because of manufacturing consent while it itself appears to be a result of manufacturing consents in the theme of "America Bad"
- TedHerman 2y agoWho are the most miserable, the citizens of Cuba or those of Haiti?
- munchler 2y agoHaiti is currently a lawless hellscape, from what I understand. As bad as Cuba might be, I don’t think it’s in the same league.
- GreatLdisisp88 2y agoThis kind of numbers are not auditted. Might as well a journalist fake the numbers while in washing room cubicle (happened before). So just take this reading litely.
- SaintSeiya 2y agoI'm one of them, the Cuban dictatorship has gotten worse over years and more brutal, the cuban government is the enemy of its own people and asphyxiates any piece of freedom we have there. Is not the U.S or any other country but pure malice of the government that do not want to give up the power and sacrifices a whole country if necessary to remain there. The amount of ignorance (bought the dictatorship propaganda) and even malice of foreigners commenting about cuba here (because Cuba has been always the flag of the Left) is staggering.
- SaintSeiya 2y agoAnd BTW is not the 10% only, is around the 20%, close to 2 million cuban's has left in this last 2 years. Everyone is escaping that sinking ship. The government is fully militarized and even complaining about your kid's food can land you in jail for 10 years.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoDo you have any advice for those with resources and desire to help Cubans leave?
- SaintSeiya 2y agoThanks, we need all the world visibility and support we can get.
- anonfordays 2y agoSadly, there are some problems that desire and money cannot fix.
- mahkeiro 2y agoGiven the low birth rate of cuba, it's going to create a havoc in the age pyramid. How can a country survive this kind of change?
- LoveMortuus 2y ago
- derelicta 2y agoUnderstandable. The US Empire's brutal economic sanctions have been asphyxiating the Republic for so long, I really can't blame them.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nsjolj 2y ago[flagged]
- testhest 2y agoCommunism is great, don't you know...