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MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch
- buildbot 5y ago64GB of 512bit unified memory is REALLY fast/huge This will be better than many training GPUs for ML... Better than dual socket servers... I wonder if the mac pro will be dual proc...
- humanistbot 5y agoYeah, but can it run CUDA pipelines?
- djxfade 5y agoConsidering that CUDA is a proprietary technology from Nvidia, how could they?
- wmf 5y agoThere are a bunch of CUDA translation shims being worked on.
- nikisweeting 5y agoNot holding my breath, it's been almost 5 years without a working CUDA shim. Hopefully this will push that work over the edge though. If I had the relevant skills I'd contribute...
- par 5y agodoubt it
- avaku 5y agoI think they want everyone to move to Metal Performance Shaders. I've done some stuff on them, but not nearly as developed as CUDA.
- anko 5y agoAny idea how the neural engine does vs the gpu?
- baybal2 5y agoSo, now we know that LPDDR5 will be coming with at least 16GB per die stack. A doubling from LPDDR4. One package = 128 bit, a double of regular DIMM I/O width. I see, it's not too much behind even HBM2, of which we may never see a mobile variant. I was long pointing to people making laptops that LPDDR4 is much cheaper than DIMMs in overall, despite nominal per-GB cost being higher. The elimination of manual assembly, termination, extra through hole parts, along with LPDDR actually taking less PCB area, less layers, and being less demanding of the PCB material easily compensates for higher chip cost.
- mustachionut 5y agoOoh they're shipping the 16-inch with a 140w power adapter: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLYU3AM/A/ https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLYU3AM/A/ Sadly looks like its still not GaN, this thing is a beast...
- Whitespace 5y agoMy iPhone 13 has an amazing front facing 1080p camera, FaceID scanner thing, speaker, and other stuff crammed into a small notch, but the notch on this is even larger and only has a camera? What gives? Why is the notch so wide? (I'm still getting one to replace my 2012 MacBook Pro)
- downWidOutaFite 5y agoYour iphone is a lot thicker than a macbook's lid.
- techpression 5y agoI'm curios as to why these much more energy efficient chips require a significant upgrade of the power brick, now at 140W that's more than 40W higher than the Intel chips (and only for the 16" model). Not a big deal, but can't see what would require the massive upgrade (and I'm a bit frustrated that all my cables are only rated for 100W)
- valine 5y agoEpic update. Crazy fast chips, 120hz, mini LED, more ports, 64 gigs of ram. It's literally everything you could want in a new MacBook Pro.
- can16358p 5y agoYup. This was more than many of us demanded TBH.
- rstupek 5y agoAnd they got rid of the touch bar which everyone dumped heavily on
- yellow_postit 5y agoIf you listen closely you can hear the IT procurement IOs being opened up en masse.
- awill 5y agoI love how they boasted about bringing back the regular keyboard. Even though they're solving a problem them created.
- rstupek 5y agoDamned if they do, damned if they don't? Sounds to me like they listened and changed course.
- thuccess129 5y agoStill have not solved the tinytiny inverted Tee arrow keys arrangement. Need to improve on the former IBM's 6-key cluster below the right shift key, or arrange full keysized arrows in a cross pattern breaking out of the rectangle at the lower right corner.
- airstrike 5y agoI think the parent comment is taking issue with how they frame it, not with the actual decision
- miohtama 5y agoReal keys and not touchbar, advertised as a feature in the presentation. What a leap of innovation. Though Apple makes the best hardware, they are arrogant as ever.
- yarcob 5y agoThe new "feature" is that the function keys are full height. Apple laptops had half height function keys for as long as I can remember.
- allenu 5y agoI didn't even notice that they were full height. There was something off aesthetically when I saw the pictures of the new keyboard and I figured it was just the missing touch bar. As a touch bar hater from the beginning, I'm super excited to be able to hit keys to play/pause/skip music, mute, and adjust brightness without having to look at the touch bar to do it.
- 1ibsq 5y agoSure, but did anyone had a serious use for them? Surely there are people, but I have the _feeling_ that the Touch Bar was a failure from the beginning. Also they brought back a magnetic snap cable for charging (the same my Air mid 2012 has that I'm typing on rn) and they added a HDMI and a SD card slot. It's all coming back ^^
- msie 5y agoWow! Apple just can't win with you, can they? I'm glad they aren't arrogant enough to revisit some of their design decisions.
- rileymat2 5y agoI suspect what the OP is reacting to is not revisiting a design decision but the presentation of it.
- 5y ago
- launchiterate 5y agoThese are some top notch MacBooks!
- unraveller 5y agoThey are a touch screeny if you ask me.
- tantony 5y agoI have a Framework laptop on order. But I must say that I am very tempted. If my attempt at daily driving linux doesn't work out, I will probably get the M1 Max 14'' MBP.
- rrradical 5y agoAt least there's good choices all around these days. Very recently it was 'everything sucks'.
- swozey 5y agoThe 16" has a 140w charger, the 14" has a 97w charger. Did the TSA stop limiting chargers to 97-100w? I priced both w/32core 32gb 512ssd and the 16" is only $299 more than the 14" .. I want the 14" though, I'd like that 140w charger.. edit: I confused this with the battery maximums, nevermind! Thanks for letting me know!
- Ayesh 5y agoFlight limit is on the battery, limiting it to 100 Wh. I have a laptop with a 230W power brick and never had any problems.
- RL_Quine 5y agoThe limit is on battery capacity at 100Wh, not charger wattage.
- gradys 5y agoI would be extremely surprised if the TSA started checking the wattage on power supplies. I've never even done the separate liquids thing.
- swozey 5y agoThat's a good point. I've never had a bigger charger than the 97w so I've never had to think twice about it. I wonder if this will be obviously 140w, when I see bricks like that on gaming laptops they're usually meant to sit on the floor not plug into the wall directly.
- tiffanyh 5y agoTSA regulates the SIZE of the battery, not the charging mechanism. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/items/lithium-batteries-more-100-watt-hours https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/...
- mgkimsal 5y agoNot trying to be snarky here, but... it'll probably come across that way. Will we ever see the end of beach balls? I've got an m1 Mac mini, and ... I see far fewer, but I still see them. I don't understand what with so many core, so must 'fast' and 'powerful' stuff, that my computer will still freeze and lag doing seemingly normal stuff.
- setpatchaddress 5y agoThe beachball isn't directly related to CPU speed. It indicates the main thread of the foreground app is busy for more than a few seconds. It may be, for example, blocked waiting for something from the network -- which is one reason it's important for macOS developers to move filesystem and network access to background threads as much as possible.
- jacobolus 5y agohttps://accidentallyquadratic.tumblr.com https://accidentallyquadratic.tumblr.com
- afandian 5y agoIt's been a while since I developed on Mac OS, but ISTR that beach balls happen when the main thread blocks and doesn't respond to events. If an application does that it's due to the developer putting too much on the main thread, as much as whatever the CPU's doing.
- wrs 5y agoBased on long experience I suspect most beachballs nowadays are because of locks, not lack of CPU cycles. The UI thread is waiting for something to happen in the background that should have been fast, so the developer did it synchronously, but for some reason it isn’t. Maybe a helper process failed, or there’s a network glitch, or maybe the developer just didn’t get multithread locking right and the wait will never end. In any case, a faster processor does nothing to help.
- Andys 5y agoGood reason to support Linux port project.
- aqme28 5y agoI’m curious about all the distaste people have of the notch. It’s more screen space. Would people prefer a larger bezel? My guess is you’ll have the option for a virtual bezel on apps that don’t properly account for the notch.
- salamandersauce 5y agoWhen competitors like the XPS 13 have like 1mm extra bezel across yes.
- aqme28 5y agoI still don’t understand. Why is a larger bezel something to be desired?
- prewett 5y agoYou get a nice, perfect rectangle. It goes nicely with all the other rectangles in the product (case, keyboard, trackpad). Two lines of symmetry everywhere. Now the main rectangle has a big chunk out of it marring it and removing the horizontal symmetry. The larger bezel keeps everything looking nice. It's not like an extra 1/2 inch on the top is going to let me put my laptop anywhere easier. (Except on a plane while the person in front of me is reclining. Which happens a couple times a year, I can live with that, compared to staring at the gash every day.)
- beltsazar 5y agoI prefer a larger bezel because the notch takes the menu bar space, which is already scarce even without the notch. Some people may have many app icons and "widgets" (e.g. iStat Menus) on the menu bar.
- bart_spoon 5y agoIts amusing that a lot of the features being hyped are simply Apple giving up on terrible design features they've been forcing for years and just providing what every other laptop does (normal keyboard, no touch bar and physical function keys, ports for HDMI cables, headphones, SD cards).
- Joeri 5y agoIt’s weird how now the only touch bar mac is that weird m1 macbook pro which now nobody will be buying when the 14 inch is so much better for not much more money, and the macbook air is almost as good for a lot less money. They went from all pro macbooks sold having touch bars to effectively none of them.
- agd 5y agoFor me these devices look incredible. Can anything come even close to the performance/energy usage of these? And with a great screen, sound, and good webcam? And as an iPhone user, the notch really isn't a big deal. In fact it's a positive because you get more usuable screen space. Yes they're expensive, but, for something we use every day for 8hours+, it seems worth it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- g42gregory 5y agoWhat happens if you plug-in an external display? With 3456-by-2234 non-standard ratio (neither 16:9 nor 16:10), will there be black bars on the sides when you mirror screens? If you don't mirror screens, the MacOS still does not rescale DPIs properly (unless it's Apple's own $4,999 retina monitor).
- blunte 5y agoToo bad Apple shows performance compared to intel cpus. I’d like to see it also compared to 8 core M1. Edit. Correction. The other link directly to the new processors does give comparisons to standard M1. It’s really impressive! But it’s also unnecessary unless you’re doing some very heavy, specialized work. Normal modern full stack development probably won’t be noticeably faster.
- hintymad 5y agoDarn! My current company has a 4-year replacement policy. Guess I'll have to switch company now to get a 2021 model.
- DeathArrow 5y agoI am not interested in Apple's ecosystem. While I stay with X86 I wonder if and when AMD and Intel will catch up. Or if another ARM chip maker will release a chip as good but without tying it to a proprietary system.
- yurishimo 5y agoAt this point, I think AMD and Intel are _at least_ 5 years away from being competitive if they shifted all R&D to ARM and started funneling insane amounts of money into it. Without that shift in focus though, it could be a decade? More? Apple has funneled all of their success from mobile straight to the desktop, and they are actively watching any competition for a sign of increased development. This is basically still the first generation of Apple Silicon arguably and it's absolutely bonkers. Let's say Intel tries to shift to ARM for some new product. Apple's first response is going to include releasing some crazy spec boost that makes Intel's attempt look like a joke, with the likely intention to discourage them from trying again. I think it's more likely at this point, that we see Apple assume a sort of leader role similar to what Intel has been losing since the release of Ryzen. Apple will hold the lead so long that they get complacent until someone can slowly sneak in a new product that leap frogs their technology. Intel held that top spot for how long though? Over a decade? Almost 2? I can easily see Apple taking a similar foothold if they can bring the price down over time similar to older iPhone models. Imagine buying a "new" $400 laptop in a few years with a M1 Pro/Max chip inside because they're just old tech at that point. Apple already does this sort of chip recycling with products like the Homepod and AppleTV. Both use the SoC from older iPhones that cost 5x as much when they launched. The fight between Intel and AMD was already interesting enough, but adding in Apple is going to make the next decade a roller coaster! Best of all, it's a win/win for consumers as these companies try and out compete each other. I'm excited for it!
- bkolobara 5y agoI don't think that the red and blue teams are that much behind. A high end AMD mobile processor like the Ryzen 7 5800HS easily beats the current M1 in most CPU bound multithreaded workloads, like compile times. Even if the numbers are true and the M1 MAX is 75% faster than the current M1 it will just be slightly faster than the AMD chip produced on an inferior process node. And the 5800HS you can get in laptops that cost like $800. The next generation of Intel CPUs Alder Lake, that also has a split between performance and efficiency cores, showed some promising numbers in current leaks and should be competitive with the M1 Max in CPU bound workloads. Where Apple shines are all this proprietary additions to the CPU that are massively going to benefit content creators (video & audio), but I as a developer don't think I can profit much from it and prefer to stick to open standards and technologies. I'm also super excited and can't wait to see what the next years bring us. As you said it, we are going to be the biggest winners here.
- PostThisTooFast 5y agoThey got rid of the shitty emoji bar, but their keyboards still don't have a real Delete key. What the fuck is Apple's peculiar retardation or petty stupidity on this issue? I don't backspace files, E-mails, or other items away when I want to delete them, Apple, you morons. And mislabeling a Backspace key "delete" DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT IT'S BACKSPACE.
- lavp 5y agoI just bought a new Air like 3 days ago...
- 72deluxe 5y agoHurray! They finally built a machine that could replace my 2012 MacBook - a proper keyboard with fn keys, SD card slot and MagSafe. HURRAY!!!!
- eric_b 5y agoHDMI and magsafe are back!
- guilhermetk 5y agoI really hope the magsafe cable is not fixed to the power brick, it is the only bad memory I have from magsafe 2
- seumars 5y agoLuckily it's not, the cable is a 2m magsafe to usb-c.
- Etheryte 5y agoHonestly, both of those combined with physical function keys matters more to me than any processor update they could've delivered. All around this is just a very solid machine that's completely worthy of the pro title.
- purple_ferret 5y agoDisappointed they're not releasing a Max Pro. Guess I'm waiting for the next cycle.
- KarlKemp 5y agoI believe they were uncharacteristically open about the schedule from the beginning of the CPU transition, with the Mac Pro coming in 2022.
- tmaly 5y agoIPhone 13 chips are on back order. I would love a Max Pro, but it I think it is going to take some time to reach market.
- Doctor_Fegg 5y agoMac Pro M1 Max Pro™
- Tpt 5y agoI'm very curious to see how the 64GB of RAM GPU performs with deep learning models fine-tuning. It might be impressive.
- jjcon 5y agoDo any deep learning frameworks even have metal support? I could see inference working well on these laptops but they lack so much of the specialized hardware I'd be surprised if training was even possible for most useable models.
- cguess 5y agoThere's been work on PyTorch to move some over, but it's still all CPU (which still, on an M1 isn't HORRIBLE) last time I checked.
- muggermuch 5y agoTensorflow supports Metal AFAIK.
- Tpt 5y agoApple is maintaining a Tensorflow plugin: https://developer.apple.com/metal/tensorflow-plugin/ https://developer.apple.com/metal/tensorflow-plugin/
- zsmi 5y agoWouldn't you use the Apple Neural Engine for that? https://www.infoq.com/news/2020/11/apple-tensorflow-acceleration/ https://www.infoq.com/news/2020/11/apple-tensorflow-accelera... "Recently Apple released the new M1 "system on a chip," which not only contains a built-in GPU, but also includes a 16-core "Neural Engine" which supports 11 trillion operations per second. Apple claims the Neural Engine will support up to 15x improvement in ML computation."
- Tpt 5y agoThe neural engine seems to be only about inference. For training it seems most systems rely on Metal like the Apple Tensorflow plugin [1]. But I have never tried to do ML on macs so I am maybe wrong. [1] https://developer.apple.com/metal/tensorflow-plugin/ https://developer.apple.com/metal/tensorflow-plugin/
- tumblewit 5y agoSo basically apple just went back to the things they tried to fix that weren't broken and then messed up the aesthetics by making it a design from 2010 and added a notch. Why do they do this. Does the design team not understand how to design macbook pros ?
- theshrike79 5y agoWait, what notch? Do the processors have notches now?
- hu3 5y agohttps://twitter.com/MichaelBabich/status/1450154997858115587 https://twitter.com/MichaelBabich/status/1450154997858115587
- planb 5y agoIf it disturbs you, there will sure be a software that moves the menu bar below and makes the top black. This is a Mac and not an iOS device after all. I’ll take the extra pixels.
- LeoPanthera 5y agoSo, they were wrong when they removed those things, and they were wrong again when they put them back?
- tumblewit 5y agoNo i meant they were right to just put back what wasnt broken. I guess I have worded it wrong. I am just complaining about the design team putting the notch.
- darklion 5y ago> So basically apple just went back to the things they tried to fix that weren't broken and then messed up the aesthetics by making it a design from 2010 and added a notch. "Apple corrected nearly everything about their laptop design that people complain about, used a design this is considered by some to be the best MBP design ever [1], and put a small intrusion on the screen in the least-used-possible spot in order to provide more overall screen real estate. Why does Apple hate us?" [1] https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever
- shantara 5y agoEverything they’ve said about the new MacBook Pros is extremely promising, but they had to add a notch to the screen. Just why? All for the sake of reducing the top screen border by a couple of millimeters.
- zepto 5y agoThe notch occupies otherwise wasted space in the menu bar - how is that not purely positive?
- eecc 5y agoWell, unless you’re only ever using text edit, the menubar is there for er, menus? It’s going to be interesting to see the gymnastics around this
- ascagnel_ 5y agoThere was at least one shot of it -- it'll be a gap in the menu, with top-level menus flowing around the notch if necessary.
- zepto 5y agoIt’s not really clear what your point is. There is plenty of room in the menu bar for the camera to be in the middle.
- anonfunction 5y agoIs there? Photoshop has a bunch of menus, not sure what they're planning to do. See this screenshot for example: https://i.imgur.com/hHEl3cN.png https://i.imgur.com/hHEl3cN.png
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- banana_giraffe 5y ago
- smoovb 5y agoKills the touch bar, the light touch keyboard, adds back weight, card reader, ports and the mag safe. Feels like an apology for prior design decisions. My 2011 MBP is new again!
- paxys 5y agoI was laughing when every single one of these changes was presented as "revolutionary" in the keynote. No, you just had to revert everything because your previous revolution was universally hated by users.
- enraged_camel 5y ago>> because your previous revolution was universally hated by users. Nah. It was hated by a small but vocal minority of users, of which HN has a lot of.
- nolok 5y agoYou're provably wrong : if it was a minority, they wouldn't have reversed. See headphone jack on iPhone.
- enraged_camel 5y ago"Provably wrong"? On the contrary, if it wasn't a small minority, Apple wouldn't have continued to break sales records with each iteration they release. I posit that "hate" is too strong a word. I would describe the changes as merely unpopular.
- kristiandupont 5y ago>small Do you have a source for that? Because if that was the case, it would seem silly for them to undo.
- audunw 5y agoI think he meant "hate" is too strong of a word. My impression is it just didn't serve much of a purpose for most people. I almost never use the function keys for anything but volume control anyway, and probably wouldn't have used the touch bar for anything but that either. It was just a waste. I probably wouldn't have hated it if I got one, maybe even found some nice uses for it, but I still think it was the right choice to get rid of it.
- tiffanyh 5y agoNo FaceID. Interesting.
- have_faith 5y agoCan't believe they did so many positive changes with the MBP only to add the notch from the phone in too. Almost the perfect update. Does this mean every app in full screen has to be updated to account for it? > posted in wrong thread so copying here
- foldr 5y agoI suspect there'll be a setting to have the notch area ignored for full screen apps by default, or something like that.
- phyalow 5y agoNot a huge deal for me, I dont notice it on my phone, I dont expect I will on my new Mac either.
- randyrand 5y agoBy default full screen apps do not use that space. It remains be black.
- _kush 5y ago> Does this mean every app in full screen has to be updated to account for it? A simple black bar in full screen apps would be sufficient I guess.
- etempleton 5y agoI wonder. Maybe full screen will behave differently and the menu bar will never be hidden? Otherwise I am looking at my web browser in full screen and how do you design around that? You have to push the tabs down anyway, might as well just make the menu bar static.
- have_faith 5y agoYou could get clever and have apps program around it as a dead zone (tabs jump either side of it when moving them around) but sounds like a pain.
- cpascal 5y agoIt seems the era of few ports, gimmicky keyboards, and thinness over function in MacBooks is over.
- have_faith 5y agoCan't believe they did so many positive changes with the MBP only to add the notch from the phone in too. Almost the perfect update. Does this mean every app in full screen has to be updated to account for it?
- dkonofalski 5y agoNo. It looks like the notch only cuts into the menu bar area and letterboxes fullscreen apps.
- have_faith 5y ago> letterboxes fullscreen apps. Sounds odd but I'll see what it's like in practice
- dkonofalski 5y agoLook at the old Macbook pros. The bezel at the top was thick. All they did was cut into the bezel so, in letterboxed mode, the display is the same size as the now previous gen of Macbooks.
- dmonitor 5y agoIf it works like the iPhone, it'll be alright. It doesn't really cut into screen real estate. You just get a little extra notification area
- clolege 5y agoWell the iPhone has a touchscreen whereas this will be used with a mouse. I'm wondering what the behavior will be to run the mouse across the top of the screen?
- dkonofalski 5y agoOn the contrary...you get more screen real estate.
- 5y ago
- tiffanyh 5y agoNo FaceID. Interesting.
- tiffanyh 5y agoNo FaceID. Interesting.
- dewiz 5y agocould be "face ID ready" without telling us, and share it will be a coming with macOS 12 on M1 Pro+
- aaroninsf 5y agoMy thought as well. That's a software features as long as the requisite hardware is there. There is a track record of hardware sitting dormant on some Apple hardware, too.
- oefrha 5y agoDon’t fish for karma by making the exact same comment on four threads.
- can16358p 5y agoWhen I saw the notch I immediately thought of Face ID. But comparing how frequent we unlock our Macs vs phones, it makes sense not to put it.
- kllrnohj 5y agoWindows Hello is widely praised as an excellent feature, I don't see why FaceID on Mac would somehow be different.
- valine 5y agoThey probably want developers to optimize around the notch shape. Would be dumb to change the shape next year when they add faceID.
- msie 5y agoThe touch-id is so fast, I don't mind.
- partiallypro 5y agoA big notch and all of that for no FaceID? Only Apple could get away with that.
- d3nj4l 5y agoThese look positively insane. 120Hz HDR displays. Can be specced with up to 64 GB of RAM and a GPU that (apparently) matches a 3070. All the ports you could ever want and magsafe. I can't wait to get my hands on one. The notch doesn't bother me because it's literally more room on the screen. Laptops with the camera below the screen tend to have an uncomfortable angle that look sup your nose, and the design suggests that they may be adding Face ID in a future iteration.
- ant6n 5y agoYes, it looks _really_ nice. Specced with the crazy graphics, and 64G ram and 2TB storage, it costs 4000$. Ouch! Is the Max CPU still fanless? (I really wish there was a matte screen option at the price point, my old macbook pro was a very expensive mirror and it puts a lot of strain on the eyes to try to concentrate on whats on screen, rather than behind it)
- agloeregrets 5y agoNone of it is fanless on these models. This is more of workstation Core i9 replacement.
- Toutouxc 5y agoOnly the Air is fanless, every other M1 * Mac has fans.
- ofou 5y agoI think is about the same if compared with a windows-based with the same specs (GeForce RTX 3070 Mobile) and so on.
- dagw 5y agoit costs 4000$. Ouch! A Windows laptop from HP or Lenovo with similar specs/performance won't be cheaper.
- SamuelAdams 5y agoCan confirm. Currently using a P52 with 64 go ram and an Xeon processor, and a 4K screen. Probably cost my company 5-7k after all the enterprise support fees and such. Would much rather have a Mac, the thing is just way smaller and lighter.
- salamandersauce 5y agoIf the M1 Max maxes out at 64GB does that pretty much imply no new Mac Pro until M2?
- nojito 5y agoYup. They will have 20/40 core arrangements as per Gurman https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/01/apple-silicon-roadmap-gurman-mac-pro/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/01/apple-silicon-roadmap-gurman-...
- kllrnohj 5y agoThe max memory isn't an indication of that, the M1's max of 64gb is limited by LPDDR5 module capacities. What would block a new Mac Pro would instead be DDR4 or DDR5 support instead of LPDDR5, and also PCI-E lanes. Both of which would likely require yet another change in silicon design.
- simonh 5y agoIt looks like it, previously Apple have indicated Apple Silicon Mac Pros will come in 2022. That will be interesting to see. I'm wondering how the economics of a super high-end processor exclusively for the Mac Pro could work out. It seems unlikely a single chip aimed just at the mac Pro market could be economically viable. I wouldn't rule out a multi-CPU architecture with dual high end M2 processors.
- wmf 5y agoThe rumored 20-core M1 Extreme and 40-core M1 Plaid haven't been announced yet.
- hmate9 5y agoThe greatest improvement: no Touch Bar.
- can16358p 5y agoTBH I'd love to have Touch Bar but improved with haptic feedback, making it much more useful. It helped me a lot while debugging and loved the customization it offered for the "static" keys on the right, but having no haptic feedback always caused me to miss the button unless I stared at it, killing the purpose greatly.
- epistasis 5y agoHaptic feedback, and also elimination of the lag. It often takes >100ms for the bar to respond, which makes a quick adjustment to the sound slider impossible.
- azundo 5y agoThe lag truly makes it unusable. Trying to mute? Hit the mute button. Did it register and is just laggy? Or just missed the tap altogether? Why have an always-on touchbar that doesn't even respond to taps consistently.
- can16358p 5y agoYup, agreed. Those were solvable problems though, and really easy ones. The bar itself would have benefited from ProMotion for example: be super responsive while touching/dragging sliders, and stay at 10Hz or even less when static. Couple it with haptic feedback and I'm pretty much sure that many would love it. It had great potential but they killed it.
- mclightning 5y agoI love my touchbar.
- 5y ago
- aldanor 5y agoWas so hoping for a Mini. Sigh.
- santialbo 5y agoFinally a decent camera
- purple_ferret 5y agoSo we're back to 4 macbook laptops again with 3 of them being called 'Pro' Hmm
- eberkund 5y agoHow do you count 4? The 13 and 16 will be phased out as old models and the 14/16 will remain. Then there's the MBA. So 3 models, with 2 of them being 'Pro'.
- mrbuttons454 5y ago13" M1 Pro is staying
- doorcrasher 5y agoThe regular M1 13" Pro is still being offered, I would probably still count that as the 4th model.
- hmate9 5y agoThe greatest improvement: no touchbar.
- dang 5y agoPlease don't post duplicate comments to HN. It makes merging threads a pain.
- More-nitors 5y agowhen will they open up the laptop specs/pricing?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- BitAstronaut 5y agohttps://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-inch https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-inch
- peterkelly 5y agoDetails available already on their online store, though it's unresponsive at the moment as everyone is trying to check it at once.
- pbalau 5y agoThey already did. On the UK store: 14" 1.8-Core CPU, 14-Core GPU, 16GB Unified Memory, 512GB SSD Storage - £1,899.00 2. 10-Core CPU, 16-Core GPU, 16GB Unified Memory, 1TB SSD Storage - £2,399.00
- nharada 5y agoHappy to see they added Magsafe but ALSO still support charging via the USB3 ports.
- troupe 5y agoThis was my biggest concern. Having the option to use MagSafe is much better than always being required to carry around yet another charger.
- buu700 5y agoSame here. I want to use MagSafe at home and the office, not carry around a bulky bespoke charger just for one device while traveling.
- james33 5y agoFrom what I can tell, the charging brick is the same either way. The new MagSafe is just a different USB-C cable that has the MagSafe connector on the end.
- buu700 5y agoAh, awesome, that was actually something I was hoping they would do (and probably suggested once or twice in some HN threads). If I can just plug the MagSafe cable into any old USB brick, that's way more convenient.
- _the_inflator 5y agoFinally this dongle hell is over. It was so cringe worthy to see all Apple users carrying around a bag of dongles. Reminded me of the old LAN party cable fun…
- wl 5y agoUSB A. Ethernet. Dongles are here to stay.
- kfprt 5y agoStill no removable storage? How are you supposed to get your data off if it dies?
- Toutouxc 5y agoYou're kinda supposed to be doing that periodically BEFORE it dies.
- kfprt 5y agoSo my options are either a constant network connection or always keeping an external drive plugged in assuming I want to maintain 0 loss. Great! That's totally easier than just being able to remove the SSD.
- ghaff 5y agoWell, there is an SD slot so if you're really concerned about being able to back up your work at all times if you're not network connected, you can periodically copy to that. If your laptop dies, there's no guarantee your SSD drive won't be the cause of the failure and/or can fail based on the same external event--e.g. spilling something.
- easton 5y agoWhat do you do if your laptop gets wet or lost? Or if someone runs it over? There’s not a ton of instances where the system won’t boot but somehow the SSD has survived. Besides, the recent storage Apple has used is all encrypted with the keys stored in the Secure Enclave. Data cannot be recovered if you don’t have the board (even on the Mac Pro, IIRC).
- kfprt 5y agoOf the 2 laptop failures I've experienced both of them wouldn't boot but the data was recoverable because the drive didn't fail. Only in a vanishingly small percent of cases is the computer so destroyed that the SSD is also destroyed. The secure enclave is just another failing on Apple's part. If I'm encrypting my data it should be with keys I control. Apple should have a backup plan for users. Not doing so is negligent.
- bla3 5y agoFor me personally, they hit it out of the park -- except for the notch, which seems like a complete showstopper to me at first sight. Maybe it's not so bad in practice if games and full-screen videos keep that whole strip solid black? But almost all the screenshots are of fullscreen apps, so it seems Apple thinks it looks a bit ungainly too.
- nohr 5y agoI imagine most games and videos can be run in 16 by 9 aspect ratio and that'll draw black bars above and below thus hiding the notch anyway.
- quirino 5y agoFrom my understanding the screen is 16:10 plus the extra space on both sides of the notch.
- dont__panic 5y agoI hadn't even thought of gaming, but most games I play tend to use the entire screen. Though maybe with a ratio above 16:10 that will be different? Games have never showed awesome support for Apple's weird decisions, so I guess I would expect some issues there, unfortunately.
- cuddlecake 5y agoHeh, if push comes to shove, I reckon games will have to add support for `safe-area-inset-top`
- threatofrain 5y agoI wonder how this will work with Apple Calendar or Safari in full screen (with the new iOS 15 compact tabs). I wonder if they are moving to a concept of full screen where the top bar is always visible.
- dmart 5y ago
- thecybernerd 5y agoI was really hoping for wifi 6E and Bluetooth 5.2 but besides this i'm floored!
- Ayesh 5y agoAs a PC user, I'm sold and looking to get one soon.
- swozey 5y agoI know what you mean, my current PC laptop is a horrible experience, I used all mbps before this. Dell xps 13z 2n1. It's so, so cool and pretty but it throttles so much that it's absolutely useless for dev work. I got the full blown $2500ish 32gb/16core or whatever, too. Such a waste, sending it to my mom and getting a 14" whenever I can.
- Ayesh 5y agoI recently shelled out a €1,200 ish on a new laptop too, and it already looks archaic compared to this. Dell XPS line up is horribly overpriced and has pretty worse performance, and the lack of Ryzen option kept me away from it. I love my Lenovo's keyboard though.
- cocoggu 5y agoI know it will be an unpopular opinion here, but bringing back the HDMI and SD card port is making the macbook much thicker and will eat up some space than can be used by battery instead, all that for ports I will never use. I wish there was another option without these ports.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- humanistbot 5y agoThen get an Air.
- macintux 5y agoGiven the power efficiency of the M1, I’m not sure it matters all that much.
- meepmorp 5y agoI agree. I don't want in-laptop HDMI or an SD reader - I can use an adapter for the half dozen times I'll ever need them. But, I also want the high end processor and memory, so alas, here we are.
- asdff 5y agoThe 16" is already built to maximum battery capacity by law
- gimmeThaBeet 5y agoInteresting, honestly didn't know that was a thing. Is this the first macbook that's hit the 100WHr limit, or has this been a barrier previously? But I mean like, that's it? No doubt there are gains to be made with a better battery, charging, cycling, cost and so forth. But without changing the regulations, a better battery can only get you more space, not higher capacity. Wild to consider.
- MVorlm 5y ago
- I_am_tiberius 5y agoUnfortunately still no bitcoin payment option.
- Toutouxc 5y agoI won't be getting one, because the M1 Air is currently more than enough for comfortable webdev, but I'm genuinely happy for people who will be getting one, because those things are incredible!
- francislata 5y agoThis is me too! I’m content with the M1 chip for mobile and ML development. I know this machine of mine will last a few years before it needs an upgrade!
- aaaaaaaaaaab 5y agoDon’t worry, webdevs around the world will do their best to hasten it as much as possible!
- laurent92 5y agoI think every React component should be a docker vm.
- comeonseriously 5y agoSo true. Maybe the refreshed Air in a few months will have more ports and be an even better value (relatively speaking).
- jmkni 5y agoSame, I have the 13" M1 Pro and I don't regret it. I don't. I don't regret it...
- H12 5y agoMy first hope is that the Pro line leads to more ubiquitous ARM support for professional software tools. I'm lucky that most of my WebDev workflow works fine on M1, but there are those rare instances I bump into something that doesn't work quite right. And unfortunately, these instances tend to be pretty frustrating. My second hope is that more ubiquitous ARM support lights a fire under other CPU designers to build better high-performance ARM chips for other desktop operating systems. I've been interested in switching to Linux for some time, but the hardware/performance of my M1 Air simply has no real competition at the moment. An ARM-powered Framework laptop running Arch is my dream.
- mizzack 5y agoWow looks like Apple has abandoned every bad decision on the MBP for the past 5 years in one swoop. No touchbar, increased key travel, added back hdmi/sd/headphone/power jacks. Plus bumped up RAM limit, M1, new displays, 120Hz... Wow.
- Sephr 5y agoBringing back a dedicated HDMI port is a downgrade. This port can only do 4K 60Hz HDR (implying HDMI 2.0), which is inferior to previously-supported standards in addition to taking up space as a single-purpose port. The Intel MacBook Pro 16 supports DisplayPort 1.4 over USB-C, which can do 4K 98Hz HDR, and doesn't take up dedicated single-purpose ports.
- timmg 5y agoCan't you still use the USB-C ports for the higher bandwidth if you want to (and have the dongle?)
- mvid 5y agoBut you can't use the HDMI port as a USB-C. I would much rather another USB C to an HDMI, which never gets used
- bombcar 5y agoI doubt there’s another USB C bus available to be used so it’s not really stealing away one(or if it is it’s shared with other peripherals built in).
- jrochkind1 5y agoTrue, but you also have a dedicated power port, when before if you wanted to plug in that had to be one of the USB-C's too.
- Bud 5y agoNope! Not a downgrade. Distinct upgrade. You are aware this machine has THREE Thunderbolt 4/USB-C ports, yes?
- ssijak 5y agoThis is literally a dream laptop. Improved in every area and lacking in none I can think of right now. And the price is crazy cheap for this performance if you ask me.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- caleb-allen 5y agoI was surprised at the price point as well
- gunshai 5y agoMaybe, I am missing something but the price seems high. Possibly this is reflected in my general consumer use case, but all of my high computation oriented use cases are offloaded to a desktop. Where are you deriving the majority of the value for this offering?
- javajosh 5y agoIn general, the people here will use the perf to run webpack faster.
- cuddlecake 5y agowebpack is usually fast enough, jest is where I need CPU & RAM. If I were to write tests, that is.
- Oddskar 5y agoPro tip: if you can switch some tests from using JSDOM to Node as the test environment they will run significantly faster.
- cuddlecake 5y ago
- gjsman-1000 5y agoFor me, think about that memory bandwidth. No other CPU comes even close. A Ryzen 5950X can only transfer about 43GB/s. This thing promises 400GB/s on the highest-end model.
- intrasight 5y agoI hope they'll make a Mini soon
- PascLeRasc 5y agoThis notch looks like it'll be fine. The notch I'm worried about is the one all the PC makers are gonna decide they need now but with zero integration or standardization with Windows.
- whywhywhywhy 5y agoFeels a return to form, finally approaching this machine from the needs of the users rather than what's compelling for the industrial design team. Every bad decision of the atrocious 2017+ era laptops reverted.
- concinds 5y agoI don't know if I'm allowed to swear on here, but thank fuck for this. It literally doesn't impose on Apple to do this stuff; they can keep their 28% margin, keep things soldered if they want, but making functional laptops that aren't made to be stared at or look good in pictures is a bare minimum.
- Svetlitski 5y agoKiller specs, better keyboard (no touchbar), more ports, and yet the most frequent comment here is about the notch. HN is a tough crowd to say the least, in this instance IMO to the point of it being comical.
- flpp1 5y agoNice hardware. It's a pity that I don't trust them with my data any more. What will they scan and report?
- wodenokoto 5y agoInterested if the macsafe cable ends in a power adapter or ends in a usb-c plug. E.g can I attach a usb-c to usb-c cable to the accompanying power brick when traveling?
- chromatin 5y agoIt ends in USB-C =)
- ksec 5y agoHDMI, SD Card, and MagSafe. Things people on the internet inclusive but not limited to HN said they will never come back because the future is USB-C. Now I just want to know if the new keyboard has more key travel distance back to the like of MacBook Pro 2015. In case anyone wants to know the thickness difference. MacBook Pro 13" 2015 - 1.8 cm MacBook Pro 13" 2016 - 1.49 / 1.55 cm MacBook Pro 14" / 16" 2021 - 1.55 / 1.66cm So basically even the new 16" is still thinner than the MacBook 2015 era. Which I think vast majority of people were happy with. Edit: Both 14" and 16" have 254 PPI, up from ~220. Apple tends to stick with same PPI for a very long time. So this is interesting. 3456-by-2234 or 3024-by-1964 is 14:9 Ratio. So somewhere in between the old 16:10 and 3:2 which is current trend of Lenovo and Surface Laptop.
- krzyk 5y agoBummer, I hooe usbc can still be used for charging. Abd that will be the default charger. I love the fact that I can charge my phone laptoo (lenovo) and my wifes macbook air all with the same charger. Bummer 2, because now producers of tvs/monitors will have less drive to reolace old hdmi with usbc. sd cards? Are they that popular nowadays?
- Someone1234 5y ago> I hope usbc can still be used for charging They said it can.
- skuhn 5y agoYou can still charge with the USB-C ports. The supplied power adapter is a USB-C charger with a detachable USB-C to Magsafe cord.
- TacticalCoder 5y agoSo it's now going to be possible to use magsafe for non Apple device but that are using USB-C charging?
- 5y ago
- rowanG077 5y agoThis is everything I wanted. But the notch... I can't really accept that.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- msie 5y agoThey increased display area with that notch and it only covers the menu bar.
- flareback 5y agoI agree that in normal use it's only covering the menu bar and probably won't be much of a deal. What happens if an app has a lot of menu options? What will that do to the bar? What about gaming? is this something the developers will have to work around or will the game only be below the notch?
- pzo 5y agoI think on iphone notch is more of a deal because you use if different orientation and between notch you couldnt squeeze much content like baterry percentage. On macos I think it's not a big deal for me considering I almost never maximize screen but extra 0.2'' of screen estate because of smaller frame is nice to have
- blhack 5y agoI want to hate it because I really wanted normal USB back, but I guess that ship has sailed. I love it. I want one. Gonna be tough not to hit that order button!
- jhatax 5y agoWith all these computational capabilities and an upgraded camera, I’m surprised that Apple put a notch into their MacBook Pro line but left out FaceID. This seems like a bizarre omission.
- djhworld 5y agoReally happy with my M1 air for home use, but would really like one of these for work!
- AquinasCoder 5y agoLooks like they focused a lot more on utility this go around. Going to try out the 16 inch but hoping it can fit in my bags well and isn't a hassle for traveling.
- dreamer7 5y agoI don't really like the chassis design. It looks dated. But the rest of the Macbook Pro sounds really exciting! For those who missed the keynote, here are some laugh-inducing moments - "Our Pro users love to use physical function keys. So we have added them" "Our Pro users like to connect a lot of devices without using a lot of dongles"
- TheOtherHobbes 5y agoI'd guess that's about thermals. Thin looks good but runs hot. Apple have de-Ived and gone for practicality over fashion-accessory style. I'm not convinced that's a bad move.
- dreamer7 5y agoI have nothing against being thick. The 2012 model was thicker but I like its design
- cassianoleal 5y agoIt's not really thick though. In fact, the 14" is 1mm thinner than the M1 13" Pro.
- hardwaregeek 5y agoYeah it’s surprisingly ugly. Maybe it’ll grow on me but I can’t help but think this is the first post-Ive laptop
- asdff 5y agoHow often are you looking at the bottom of you laptop?
- hardwaregeek 5y agoNot often but an aspect I respect about Apple is how they get the details right even when you don't see them. A profile of Ive mentions how they've thought about stuff like the color of the internal chips: > One afternoon, Ive and Bart André removed the bottom panel of a MacBook laptop, revealing black and silver components arranged, with unnecessary orderliness, on a matte black circuit board. Ive looked down happily. “This is such an extraordinarily beautiful thing,” he said. André noted that, in a competitor’s computer, the board would be green. He sounded embarrassed on behalf of that other machine. On the same table was a plastic model of an existing Apple headphone—an EarPod—the size of a golf driver. Having ugly feet on a laptop does betray a slight change in values. And yes, it's minor but it's like the extraneous requests on a rock star's rider. If they're not getting this right, what else are they missing?
- dukeofdoom 5y ago$1999 starting price. Even higher than predicted.
- lowbloodsugar 5y agoOn the other hand, the 16" max ram 64GB, is less than $4000, which is less than I paid for my 2018 32GB RAM i9 pro.
- kondro 5y agoThese prices all feel like standard MacBook Pro pricing to me. I just ordered one (M1 Max, 64GB, 2TB) and it cost as much as that tier always seems to cost me.
- gnicholas 5y agoI was excited to replace my 2017 MBP with a new model that has a decent keyboard and old-school features like multiple kinds of ports and an SD card slot. With a starting price of $2000, I don’t know that I’m going to pull the trigger right now. My guess is this is a sign of a supply chain crunch, and they are maximizing profit instead of revenue, which makes sense. Still disappointing that getting these basic-seeming features (I don’t care about the performance) costs $600 more than my last MBP. The base Pro shouldn’t jump in price by 50%.
- memco 5y agoFor me the price of RAM and SSD were the downers. I was hoping that after over 7 years I'd be able to buy a new computer with more RAM and drive space without paying that much more, but to upgrade I'd need to spend $600. The RAM is less important for me, but the fact that drive space hasn't grown much is a bummer since data accumulates every day and the kinds of data only seem to be growing in size.
- vimy 5y agoThe 13” is the base Pro.
- turtlebits 5y agoThey've made 16GB and a 512GB SSD the base spec. Maybe they're tired of the "only 8 GB ram" comments that always get posted. /s
- gnicholas 5y agoYeah they’re basically forcing everyone to purchase a non-base amount of storage (and RAM, to a lesser extent) and charging them for the pleasure.
- yoyohello13 5y agoI've got to say these M1 chips are very tempting. I've been a Linux guy for a long time now and these make me contemplate the switch. I really wish apple had a real competitor in the laptop space, but honestly no one seems to come close to apple's hardware quality. I'm really hoping to see some M1 style chips for non-apple hardware in the near future.
- schaefer 5y agointel 12th gen, alder lake, does mix high efficiency and performance cores, like the M1 series... but it's certainly not a total in-die solution like we see with the M1. And also, the wait time for alder lake to ship in actual laptops is unknown.
- tumblewit 5y agoI cant believe none of the news websites aren't using the title : 'Apple turns its silicon up a notch'
- berberous 5y agoAmazing update. I still wish the m1 air supported 2 external displays though, as I would still prefer the smaller form factor, lighter weight, fanless design, and cheaper price, as I don't need the pro power. Hopefully the refreshed air will get support for 2 external displays sooner rather than later as it is otherwise perfect.
- alwillis 5y agoIf you use DisplayPort, you can add as many as six external displays on an M1 Air [1]. [1]: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/24/m1-macs-able-to-run-six-external-displays/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/24/m1-macs-able-to-run-six...
- culopatin 5y agoI wonder what this means for the new M1 pro then. Can I have 2 external monitors AND the integrated screen on? I guess we'll have to try
- siva7 5y agoyes you can
- username190 5y agoDisplayPort != DisplayLink. DisplayLink hardware isn't known to be super stable - since it all runs through USB, things can get slow or laggy, and can sometimes be subjected to bandwidth limitations (at the port, the controller, etc). DisplayLink also uses software encoding, I believe - theoretically this shouldn't be an issue for the CPUs in this machine (they can handle something like that pretty easily), but there is a noticeable performance difference versus connecting them directly via HDMI or via a TB3 <-> DisplayPort connector. You're also reliant on DisplayLink's drivers, which haven't always been the best on macOS. I've heard that this was fixed more recently, but haven't tested.
- mrstumpy 5y agoThese all look amazing. Interesting to see them drop the popular 15.4" size. All my accessories that are sized for that form factor will have to be purchased again. I'm thinking especially of the vertical dock I have.
- elzbardico 5y agoLooks like news of MacBook Pro death have been greatly exaggerated
- eloisant 5y agoWell, Apple decided to stop digging their grave and finally recognized that the 2016 MBP was just a big mistake. No port other than USB-C, no magsafe, touchbar, crappy keyboard...
- lowbloodsugar 5y ago64Gb RAM, 400Gb/s! Ports! No touchbar! But 64GB RAM on a mac book, finally! Sold! Mine arrives next week!!!! And it is less than $4000!
- humanistbot 5y agoedit: this was wrong 16GB max RAM on the 14 inch model. No thanks.
- minimaxir 5y agoYou can configure to 32GB for an extra $400.
- EdwardMSmith 5y agoThis is not correct. 32GB on the M1 Pro and 64GB on the M1 Max in the 14".
- amrox 5y agoIt can be configured up to 64gb with the M1 Max.
- bingohbangoh 5y agowhat's the general need for microSD? My XPS-13 has one but I've never understood why its such a big deal. I almost never use it.
- gnicholas 5y agoGiven how much Apple charges for storage, and the fact that it is not expandable, SD card slots offer a reasonable way to get more storage. With a starting price at $2000, this may not make sense for people who don’t need a pro level machine but were looking forward to features like this
- destitude 5y agoSD cards are not a reliable medium term storage mechanism. They wear out much faster then SSD drives.
- gnicholas 5y agoYup, I’d just use it for storing my iTunes library and one of my iPhone backups. I currently use an external drive, which I don’t take everywhere. SD would make it trivial to have both of these with me at all times. I’d also be able to keep all my photos and downloaded videos for travel, without having to worry about filling up my internal storage.
- zmmmmm 5y agoYep. But there are huge types of cases where that's still useful. For example, I have all my docker images on a removable SD card. It's all cached so it doesn't matter but its hundreds of GB I don't need on my main storage.
- musicale 5y agoThat's exactly what I did - for previous Macbook Pro models with SD card slots you can find flush sd cards or adapters with an aluminum end that blends right into the case (you can still remove it fairly easily but I hardly ever do.)
- 5y ago
- astlouis44 5y agoApple has done it again.
- ellyagg 5y agoHow many external monitors does it support? I got an M1 mini only to find out it could only drive 2 4K monitor. And the M1 notebooks can only use 1 external 4K monitor. I'm not getting one of these until I can run 3 external 4K monitors like I'm doing on my 2019 Macbook 16-inch right now.
- terramex 5y ago2 or 4 external 4K monitors, depending on whether you choose Pro or Max. M1 Pro - 2x 6K monitors plus built-in display M1 Max - 3x 6K display plus additional 4K display plus built-in display External displays are 60Hz only.
- edot 5y agoEven if only one external display is run? That’s a bummer. Having a high refresh rate laptop screen with a 60hz monitor is not good.
- cletus 5y agoAnd so ends the last of the Dark Days of Johnny Ive. Don't get me wrong: he innovated a lot. My theory is when Jobs died, he lost his counterbalance and his designs suddenly became without compromise (no that isn't a good thing). It's when we saw the 12" Macbook as the crusade for thinness at all costs (terrible performance, only one port, a terrible version of the macbook Air), the end of the Macbook Air (before getting resurrected a few years later), the butterfly keyboard (allegedly to save 0.5mm in thickness), the Touch Bar (primarily there to boost Average Selling Price) and the loss of MagSafe. I was surprised last year how good the M1 was. The second generation looks even better. This thing has function keys back, no Touch Bar, MagSafe!!!, some non-TB ports and up to 64GB of RAM. Shut up and take my money!
- apozem 5y agoAnd the thing is, I don’t mind they put a weird, shallow keyboard and one USB C port on that 12” MacBook. They were trying to make the lightest laptop they could. Those compromises made sense. The same compromises made no sense on high-end pro machines.
- simonh 5y agoThe 12" wasn't for everyone, but I know 2 people who had one and they both thought they were just fantastic.
- orobinson 5y agoI have the first (2015) version of the 12”, it’s still my main laptop. It’s powerful enough for light coding and music production which is all I need. I love the form factor and if they brought a new one out with an M1 chip I’d buy it in a flash.
- fredsted 5y agoThe 12” was a truly awesome machine, and it would’ve been even more great with the M1.
- 5y ago
- buu700 5y agoI can live without HDMI, but it never made sense to me to put SD on the chopping block. In what sense was USB-C ever supposed to be an alternative to SD card slots? Edit: For clarity, read my reply to anamexis before responding to this.
- anamexis 5y agoOpposite for me - I almost never used the SD slot, so a dongle was no problem for me, but I used HDMI all the time.
- buu700 5y agoI'm not commenting on whether storage expansion or video output is more important. That obviously depends on the person. I'm saying that while USB-C is an effective solution for video output, and therefore can conceivably overtake HDMI at some point in the future, it doesn't address the same use case as SD at all. I can use an SD card slot for permanent expandable storage. I can stick a terabyte card in there and forget about it until I need to move it into a new device. USB-C doesn't help with that use case at all. It's actually worse than USB-A, because at least the latter has decent slim fit drives available that will stay in without sticking out too much.
- TheGRS 5y agoHidden in your comment is the intent, Apple was selling the MBP with iPhone marketing intentions. You can put more of a $$ premium on storage if the micro SD card slot does not exist, much like an iPhone.
- ksec 5y ago>and therefore can conceivably overtake HDMI at some point in the future, HDMI will live on forever in the TV space and professional equipment. USB-C / DisplayPort was only ever an effective solution in the computing industry, not consumer / professional electronics. Same to SD Card, both are targeting to Video / Graphics professionals.
- fflluuxx 5y agoI really hate the feet. Just the bottom half of the form factor looks like they're going back to 2006 design.
- asdff 5y agoVery ugly but luckily you don't look at that part much on a laptop. Especially on macs, the rubber feet just fall off and the case ends up scratched and marred up overtime.
- gimmeThaBeet 5y agoYeah I have a 2012(?) and one of the only things is that the feet have all worn flat and smooth, and feel like they are going to fall off. And if I want to overthink it, it's probably one of the cheapest feeling things about it. What do you mean the rubber feet don't stay on? They make millions of these, milled out of aluminum, they can't keep the feet on? Personally, I would trade a lot of design elegance for some hardy laptop feet.
- asdff 5y agoI have two 2012 era macs and both are on their second or third set of rubber feet by now. The adhesive just gives out over time.
- javajosh 5y agoIt's great Apple is changing course back to where they were in 2013. What sucks is that all those laptops built between 2013 and 2022 will be dogs on the used market. For my money, I'm getting the Framework latop and I'm going to bite the bullet and run (in order of preference) FreeBSD, NixOS, or some Linux (Ubuntu, probably). I'm tired of Apple's shit.
- dmicah 5y agoThe touchbar Macbook Pros were released 2016 rather than 2013.
- criddell 5y ago> all those laptops built between 2013 and 2022 will be dogs on the used market In what sense? I'd bet they still sell for more than similar Windows laptops from those years.
- buu700 5y agoI assume they mean by comparison to what they would have gone for in an alternate timeline where Apple hadn't bungled the design in the first place. They could have released another five years of evolutionary updates to the MBPr line instead, and then everything released between 2015 and the first half of 2020 would have looked less obsolete by comparison. i.e. There would be more demand in the used market for those machines if they were more cosmetically similar, even if lacking Apple Silicon and mini LED screens.
- trias 5y agowhat happened in 2013?
- wwweston 5y ago2013-2022 will probably still be in demand for anybody that's camping out on Mojave to keep 32 bit support or has Intel-related needs, though that demand profile will of course change over time. Framework + Linux sure seems compelling, though. I'm definitely tempted to try it.
- 5y ago
- chrisBob 5y agoI have been waiting on this announcement to buy a new Mac, but now that they are out, I don't think I will buy one. The prices are 2x a Macbook Air, but the utility for me doesn't match. If the 14" was closer to the previous 13" MBP price of $1500 I would be ordering one now, but I will be getting a Macbook Air instead. Note to Veterans: Apple gives a 10% Veterans discount on everything, including the refurbished store.
- dukeofdoom 5y agoHark to justify 2k for 512 GB of storage. I think I will go the macbook air route too. Just upgrade the storage. For the price difference I can get a mavic air 2s drone.
- newfonewhodis 5y agoExactly this. I use cloud VMs for heavy lifting. But if I used a laptop for even an hour every day, I would snap this $2k machine. I just wish they had a $1000 M1 laptop with ports.
- reaperducer 5y agoDifferent priorities for different people. 13" and 14" are unusable for me. They're just too small. I used to love that form factor when I was running through airports in a different country each month, which is why I'm typing this on an 11" Air. But in today's world, a bigger screen is more important. This one has 16.2 inches, which is almost as big as the old 17-inch Mac laptops, so I've ordered one. If I ever get back to traveling a lot, it'll be the 16" at the hotel, and then just take an iPad to the client. No need to drag a whole computer with me anymore.
- laurent92 5y agoI’d love to have it, but OSHA requires that we don’t work too much on the laptop. So, I would need a keyboard, a large screen and a mouse… I must not be the right audience. But would a videographist really mount videos on his laptop?
- bombcar 5y ago
- ModernMech 5y agoAnyone else getting an old PowerBook vibe off of these?
- rafaelturk 5y agoI was falling in love for this new macBook until I saw the notch. They had to add a notch to the screen. Why?!
- macintux 5y agoOr they shrunk the existing “notch” from the full width of the display to the least-used real estate on the machine.
- handrous 5y agoLooking at the empty space in the center of whatever they call the top menu bar in MacOS, on my machine, I can kinda see why they'd think it was OK to claim some territory there. Will probably be annoying to people who use programs in fullscreen mode, I guess, unless that mode just blacks out the whole section and treats it as bezel, which I assume is what all video players will do in fullscreen mode, regardless.
- Factorium 5y agoI wish we could get a Macbook Air in these screen sizes. I don't need the extra power, just the bigger screen.
- neogodless 5y agoYou can order a Macbook Pro 14" with the M1 (not M1 Pro) for $2000. EDIT: My mistake, it's an 8-core M1 Pro with 14-core GPU (so neither the 8-core M1 with 8-core GPU, nor the 10-core M1 Pro with 16-core GPU) at that price.
- rhodysurf 5y agoWait the base price of the Macbook Pro isnt for M1 Pro? That is confusing as hell. EDIT: The base $2000 new Macbook pro does come with a M1 Pro on the US apple Store....
- Factorium 5y agoTo be specific, 14" or 16" Macbook Air closer to the $999 of the 13". I guess that would cannibalise sales of the Macbook Pro, but the M1 Macbook Air is totally sufficient for regular browsing and officework.
- emsy 5y agoI feel like I’m alone with this opinion, but: I can’t buy one of these, as much as I’d like to. I still have to use windows half of the time because of software that’s missing on MacOS. So either I get to buy and maintain 2 laptops or settle for one and I think pragmatic wins over shiny, so I’ll get a boring old windows machine.
- ReC757 5y agoREAD BEFORE PURCHASE: There is a NOTCH at the TOP CENTER of screen.
- oblio 5y agoThe insides look great, the connectivity seems decent, but notch and chin, really? Like cheap Android phones? :-))
- syngrog66 5y agoESC key still present!
- hiram112 5y agoAnd function keys!
- newfonewhodis 5y agoI hate the notch. I wish I could get the 14inch body with the M1 (not pro/max) chip in it for <$1200. All I want are ports in last year's MBP but don't feel the need to spend $2k on a laptop I infrequently use.
- gigatexal 5y agoHoly smokes. I was impressed. I can’t understand how some folks here are underwhelmed. Who is buying and what did you buy??
- usui 5y agoI really enjoy the way that they admitted their design mistakes of the past by having the speaker mention that users love tactile function keys and made it come back. They tried their best to say it was a mistake without explicitly stating it. It's almost like they did real design and usability studies, and then acted on it! I find it so surprising that in this day, a big tech company is actually listening to its pro user segment (at least more than before). Fingers crossed for lightning port switching to USB-C, Touch ID making a return to mobile devices (does not have to replace Face ID although I wouldn't care if it did), and the screen notch going away over time.
- Oddskar 5y agoIt's laughable incompetence and hubris, honestly. If you read any material from the original UXers of Apple they would have said the same. "Fingers on glass" can never beat the tactility of having actual keys. The versatility it affords mobile devices in terms of gestures and such is inappropriate for professional devices where we need speed and accuracy.
- sumedh 5y ago> (at least more than before). I think this happened because Jonny Ive left Apple.
- sicromoft 5y agoThe maxed out 16-inch model comes in at a cool $6099.
- Zenbit_UX 5y agoYup, but no one needs 8TB of internal SSD space. ~$4000 maxed out with 1TB.
- BiteCode_dev 5y agoAnd just like that, the outrage about the photo scanning malware Apple installed on their iPhone is forgotten. "The screeching voices of the minority" indeed.
- john_minsk 5y agoI heard they reconsidered.
- thehappypm 5y agoFirst of all, they never "installed" anything, it was a future feature. Second, they delayed it (possibly indefinitely) after the huge pushback.
- comeonseriously 5y agoOof. I was hoping at least 1 version of the 14 would be closer to $1500. These are just too expensive for me. For that reason, I'm out...
- xvilka 5y agoHopefully, they didn't change much in terms of software interface so Asahi Linux would work [1] out of the box. [1] https://asahilinux.org/2021/10/progress-report-september-2021/ https://asahilinux.org/2021/10/progress-report-september-202...
- musesum 5y agoI put off trip to Bali until this update. Last time, the screen cracked due to lid closed and heat buildup with fan trying cool in a positive feedback loop. Had to fly to Singapore to replace. This time, carrying (soon to be) old MBP as backup.
- hiram112 5y agoCan anyone comment on how well M1 chips work with X86 development workflows e.g. Brew, Docker, etc? I know there are still problems if you're heavily dependent on Virtualization software like VMWare and Virtual Box. For example, will I be able to just do the same "brew install x" for the majority of the *nix apps, libs, services, etc. that I use daily? How bout Docker Desktop and Docker images? For example, if all my teammates are using older Intel Macs, PCs, etc. and we deploy and develop using X86 images, will I need to be very careful that I don't end up pushing Arm based Docker images to our repo? Will I need to have modified Docker / Docker-Compose files that reference Arm versions of our images so they can run on my machine? This just seems like a pain if you're the only one using Arm, while the rest of the team and various environments are on X86-64. It took years before most Node, Python, Java, etc. incompatibilities between Unix and Windows were ironed out, and I still run into issues when, e.g., an inexperienced developer on Windows hardcodes some 'backslashed' path in their app or assumes Windows line endings instead of standard Unix.
- beaner 5y agoUnpopular opinion: I am surprised by how much people like MagSafe. Charging over usb-c seems so ideal: one cable for all of my devices. And in a decade, the number of times I've tripped or banged on the cable in a way that having MagSafe would have made a difference is zero. Just trying to understand others I guess... What makes it so appealing, given you have to carry around more stuff to use it?
- judge2020 5y agoUSB-C locks into place - not ideal for when someone trips on your cable and brings your laptop crashing into the hard floor.
- beaner 5y agoYes... I understand. My questions was why this seems so desirable to have when it requires carrying more equipment, and seems like an unlikely scenario most of the time.
- dont__panic 5y agoDifferent strokes for different folks. I personally already have to bring micro USB, usb c, lightning, and a couple of proprietary chargers wherever I go, plus Magsafe 2 when I bring my personal laptop... so it's not like I'm going from an all USB-C world just because of magsafe. And I have tripped over my cables many times and been saved by magsafe. My work laptop has come crashing to the ground a couple of times so far because a family member's dog pushed on the cable... I don't want to have to deal with that risk profile for my personal laptop!
- yodsanklai 5y ago> magsafe can we still use an usb-c port for charging?
- macintux 5y agoYes.
- bengale 5y agoI’m so disappointed to trade a multifunction thunderbolt port for a single use hdmi port when the same thing can be done with a £5 cable. I wish I could get that M1 pro max chip in my current MacBook Pro.
- macintux 5y agoI have to admit, that was frustrating. I’ve been in one meeting, once, where I needed HDMI but didn’t have any dongles.
- killion 5y agoI haven't been able to see if the DAC that powers the headphone port supports 24-bit/192 kHz yet. Being able to listen to Lossless audio without a USB DAC would be nice. It seems possible that Apple would add that since it's a feature of Apple Music Lossless.
- MetricExpansion 5y agoDuring the video, they quickly mentioned that the jack supports high-impedance headphones and later specifically mention that you can connect “high-fidelity” headphones. Skip to about 33:30 in the video. So while nothing shows up on the spec page on their website, I wonder if they’re taking audio output more seriously.
- timdaub 5y agoAs someone that has felt many years stuck with his MBP mid 2014 all I can say is: Shut up and take my money.
- reaperducer 5y ago2012 MacBook Air here. Yep, I ordered a new 16" machine minutes ago. It's funny how people on the internet were crying, "16GB is completely unusable!" Ummm... I have 4GB, and it works fine for everything. I'm even running Catalina. Maybe it's not good for games? I don't play computer games. Maybe that's where all the teeth-gnashing and kiddie posturing comes from.
- Raminj95 5y agoIts not only games, but doing webdev with docker instances up and running and many tabs etc etc it eats through that ram so fast, so its nice to have alot of ram so that the dev experience still feels snappy. thats my 2 cents anyway.
- icoder 5y agoMBP late 2012 right there with you
- hammock 5y agoIs 8GB more memory and an upgraded processor worth the $700 price difference from MacBook Pro M1 base model?
- tw04 5y agoIt's refreshing to see them actually listening to customer feedback, I don't think this ever would've happened in a Jobs/Ive world. Would they have released "pro" focused M1 chips/laptops? Absolutely. Would they have gone back on the (IMO) trainwreck that was touchbar and removing everything but 2x USB-C ports? No way. ALSO, I'm actually kind of shocked they're supporting charging by both USB-C and magsafe. That is 100% the right thing to do and 100% the opposite of what Apple would normally do (namely lock you in to having to buy magsafe-3 and magsafe-3 only to charge the laptop).
- krrrh 5y agoObligatory reminder that Apple killed the miniDIN-8 and ADB ports on the original iMac before almost anyone had ever seen a USB cable in real life. They sold the notion of charging off your monitor cable pretty hard, there’s no way they could go back on that.
- leokennis 5y agoAnd to be honest, I use my laptop for home and office work. It’s very nice to be able to have to just (un)plug one cable and have everything (charging, 4K100 video, keyboard, mouse, webcam) working. If Apple would have killed charging via USB-C PD, it’d have been a big regression for me.
- viburnum 5y agoAll the processor options are really confusing.
- fishywang 5y agoDoes anyone know why would it need 140w power adapter? I thought the M1 chips are supposed to be more power efficient than the Intel ones, and they never needed >100w power adapter in the Intel days. The new USB-C spec to support >100w power delivery was just out, I really hope they are following that spec in their new 140w USB-C power adapter.
- culopatin 5y agoNow I just wait for the 14in air? All I want is a 16/32gb air with this 14in screen. I feel like I'm always in the lineup gaps of apple.
- nbzso 5y agoNice. Ports are back. Very nice. Prices are up. Not nice. The deal breaker is the notch. Sorry Apple I am a designer. I cannot watch this 24/7. Even if the top bar is black the notch will be visible enough to distract my visual line. The more I look at this, the more I like the Framework laptop. P.S. Happy down-voting, have a nice day and stay safe.
- josephg 5y agoCan you help me understand that? I have an iPhone with a notch and I find it’s totally fine. Day to day I don’t notice it. It just kind of blends in to the design of the phone. And I assume the situation here will be the same. Most software doesn’t use the whole menu bar anyway. It wont be on top of anything except if you use that space to watch full screen video. I’m not excited about the price, but I’d totally take tiny bezels and an upgraded webcam in exchange for the notch. This looks like an excellent upgrade.
- saiya-jin 5y agoWell if you are also exposed to notch-less experience elsewhere, ie work, it can become quite annoying. If that's your whole world, I can imagine you just learn ignoring it
- nbzso 5y agoI up-voted your comment, you ask reasonable question and I will try to answer it honestly. It is a use case. There are different levels of design craft. The more you, as a designer, train your mind and eyes, the more you see invisible things for regular people. I can spend days in clearing the white space between glyph/kerning of typography and this notch will distract my eyes constantly. Call it OCD or professional deformation, the notch will drive me crazy.:) When designing you want every visual distraction to be absent from your screen, for example I use 50% gray for wallpaper to have middle gray reference etc. You cannot compare iPhone UX with Design process UX. When you use your phone, you have a legitimate reason for compromise. When you use Pro labeled hardware you expect all Pro use cases and Pro UX to be respected. Don't get me wrong, I like the overall design (even the redesign of the shape of the keys), and there is no doubt that this are top-notch monsters. But for my use-case this is no go.
- dcdevito 5y agoNo M1 Pro/Max Mini announced and my conspiracy theory on that is: they couldn’t justify a high price tag for it and instead are pushing pro users to the MacBook Pro and eventually Mac Pro and maybe iMac Pro. If they did an M1 Pro Mini would cannibalize these MacBook pros. I’m glad I pulled the trigger two weeks ago and I just received my M1 mini last week, I am relieved and will be continuing to enjoy it
- dreamer7 5y agoHave Macbook Pro sales been declining for the past few years? I can understand removing the touchbar as a bad experiment but I thought Apple was obstinate about the move to USB-C. Really did not expect this backpeddling. Edit - I'm definitely pleased with the move to add more ports. Just surprised.
- Justsignedup 5y agoYay magsafe is back. Boo magsafe is now a brand new one, incompatible with old chargers, and even usb-c chargers. YAY! Rejoice! Jesus I hate apple's policies on dongles and such. But at least they ackgnowledged that everyone wants an hdmi connection. Everyone.
- alexashka 5y ago2k USD for a laptop in 2021? Apple's goddamn genius. Oh, it has a newer processor that'll make awful software such as XCode and every internet browser a little faster? Well I'm in!
- Oddskar 5y agoTo be fair, a decked out i9 laptop can easily end up in the same price range. So I don't think it's that outlandish really.
- alexashka 5y agoSure. I'm making the argument that 2k for a laptop form factor is outlandish, not that there aren't products as bizarre as 'gaming laptops' that perhaps cost even more. I have yet to see a mass market use-case for a powerful laptop. Who are these people that need to regularly go from place to place and need to do compute-intensive work in those various places? I've been given laptops at work - everyone would've been better off with a mac mini 100% of the time (assuming you can upgrade those?) - the only people who don't connect their laptop to a big monitor anyway are people asking for neck and shoulder problems within a decade.
- belltaco 5y agoIf they'd only add touchscreens. Sigh. Edit: Ouch, so many downvotes just for asking for a feature. Weird.
- sanderjd 5y agoWhat for? I'm sure some people use them to draw and stuff but it seems pretty niche to me.
- MaxikCZ 5y agoThe laptop I bought for my dad have touchscreen "by accident", as neither of us recognized it as a feature to go for. Now he says its the best feature of the laptop, from pinching on maps to selecting checkboxes/radiobuttons. I dont know who was more surprised to find it useful.
- sanderjd 5y agoInteresting anecdote!
- theshrike79 5y agoThat's bad UX unless the whole of MacOS is redesigned to be used with fingers. Not happening soon. Not saying never though.
- yarcob 5y ago> unless the whole of MacOS is redesigned to be used with fingers People use a lot of web apps that were designed mobile first, and using them without a touch screen sucks. You wouldn't use the touch screen as primary input, but it would make a lot of things much easier.
- theshrike79 5y agoIt would also require the whole thing be designed differently. The hinge would need to be sturdy enough to not wobble when the user is dragging or tapping with a finger. The body would need to be heavier than the screen by a big enough margin to not topple the whole thing over when tapping.
- sergioisidoro 5y agoA fair warning to developers: You're getting into an adventure with M1. From docker images not built for M1 with segmentation faults on qemu (eg. Liquibase for spring developers), to _significant_ troubles trying to make React native apps build with the M1 and XCode. Don't get me wrong, I have a Macbook air M1 and I love it, but it hasn't been a love without pain. Also, the magsafe feels like it comes too late. Almost like a political feature in response to the EU measure of enforcing a single charging cable.
- urthor 5y agoIt's very difficult to justify the purchase because ultimately I've switched to thin client for serious development long ago. I guess I'll use the unrivaled performance per watt to drive Jetbrains.
- PedroBatista 5y ago> I guess I'll use the unrivaled performance per watt to drive Jetbrains. So you're advocating for nuclear power?
- syspec 5y agoYou can still charge using USB-C
- sergioisidoro 5y agoYes, that is true. And I hope that would be the default (at least in Europe). But the timing of this launch (when all new machines were already using USB-C), with the decision of the European commission is quite a coincidence. Which makes the feature feel a bit out of place, or just a good upselling opportunity for Apple.
- vinay427 5y agoHonestly, I’m not sure I see this. They made the charging cable USB C at one end, shipping a standard USB C PD adapter and even mentioning that a USB C to C cable can be used with the same adapter to charge the same laptop. I don’t think they could have done much more without compromising MagSafe, and this allows for the same portability of cables and adapters that people like about USB C PD.
- spenvo 5y agothe notch is a major design compromise and apple is not trying hard enough. i can not imagine paying six thousand dollars for a new laptop and literally staring into an unforced error every day. (See, Dell XPS bezel-less displays like this: https://twitter.com/SpencerDailey/status/1450170126360358914 https://twitter.com/SpencerDailey/status/1450170126360358914) I hide my menu bar for maximum space, and you can't do that here without eating into your main apps' vertical space. the notch also reminds people of iphone features, which makes a touch screen an even more obvious omission, as well as Face ID. (FaceID is trending on twitter b/c people assume this laptop ships with it: https://twitter.com/MKBHD/status/1450162489795170307 https://twitter.com/MKBHD/status/1450162489795170307 )
- ashtonkem 5y agoM1 aside, it's pretty clear that Jony Ive was holding back Apple's designs here. While he worked at Apple it was thinness at all costs, right after he leaves the MBP suddenly gets a tiny bit thicker in order to return a huge chunk of the features that were previously removed. Probably the only thing on this new laptop that can't be pinned on his departure is the M1 series of chips.
- mproud 5y agoThe 14-inch actually gets barely noticeably thinner.
- dandotway 5y agoThe worst thing about the NotchBook - this union of iPhone notch with MacBook - is that all the other laptop manufacturers have a way of copying Apple's decisions: non-replaceable batteries, soldered in RAM and SSD, fewer ports, near-zero key travel for keyboards, and now a notch. The Dell XPS line has had ultra-thin bezels for ages with no notch but now future XPSes might have a notch just because some Dell suits thought, "Look at how many of these NotchBooks Apple is selling. Consumers must want the notch." But correlations of sales are not causations of sales.
- adam_arthur 5y agoIs there a reason Apple couldn't just implement magsafe using a USB-C port? Prong is too long/deep to be workable?
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y agoThis was a "Shut up and take my money" day for me. I've been running on a 3-year-old machine, straining at the leash, and it's time to change. I made my order about a minute after the store went live, and I won't get it until next month. I suspect part of that, is because I'm getting the M1 Max processor. They'll make a lot of money, this week.
- reaperducer 5y agoI've been running on a 3-year-old machine, straining at the leash, and it's time to change. My daily driver MacBook Air is very close to ten years old. I wonder if I'll get ten years out of this one, too.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y agoXcode is getting so damn big, that I'm actually running out of disk space. It's insane. I develop on the computer, so I tend to keep it busy. My computers are always in great shape, aesthetically, but I run them hard. The fans are generally going from about 6AM to 9PM.
- smoldesu 5y agoIt would sure be nice if they used any of that spare space inside to let us load up our machine with M.2 drives. Maybe that technology is too futuristic though, much like function keys or magnetic chargers.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y agoNot much extra height. They are barely thicker than the last generation.
- smoldesu 5y agoSure, but there's obviously extra space inside because of the SOC. M.2 drives are miniscule, if Valve could fit one in the Steam Deck, Apple has no excuse.
- dirkg 5y agoAm I the only one who like the TouchBar? It was fast, useful and configurable and I rarely use Fn keys anyway, nothing in MacOS uses them.
- benjaminwootton 5y ago$2500 USD (£1800 GBP) to buy in the US vs £2500 GBP. Apple are a total rip off.
- thehappypm 5y agoTariffs must be part of this.
- msoad 5y agoWhen I interviewed at Apple years ago there was a poster on the wall that had a picture of a MacBook with a MagSafe charger connected. A kid was crossing by the desk the laptop was sitting on it and it was about to cross the charging cable. Without MagSafe laptop could've fallen on this kid's head. The writing on the poster said: Come work with people who invented MagSafe to save children's lives. (or something similar) I really liked that poster. Never worked at Apple but I still remember that moment. MagSafe is great! What a shame they took it away for a few years!
- amelius 5y agoIn another commercial, a child walks near the edge of a cliff, loses balance and grabs the one thing in his reach: a laptop charger cable. Unfortunately, it's MagSafe, and the child falls into the abyss ...
- fnordsensei 5y agoBecause if it hadn't been magsafe, the child would be tethered to… a laptop? Presumably bolted on to whatever surface it was sitting on?
- amelius 5y agoHis dad was carrying the laptop.
- dkdbejwi383 5y agoAnd also his dad is Jony Ive
- phendrenad2 5y agoThis really happened, I read about it on LinkedIn.
- 5y ago
- seanhunter 5y agoWell my desktop PC picked today to decide it just wasn't going to boot up any more, making this a pretty straightforward decision...
- SalimoS 5y agoWhy no one is talking about the base 14" 8-Core CPU and 14-Core GPU but not a single mention in the presentation ? How the new M1 Pro 8 core compared the the M1 8 core ?
- petercooper 5y agoI don't plan to go back to MagSafe. I have multiport USB-C chargers all round my house and don't really want to buy lots of cables or proprietary chargers to add to the mix. I'm sticking with USB-C even if it's slower. SD cards I don't use. And HDMI I rarely use so dongles are fine, but it's nice to have I guess!
- skohan 5y agoAgree on the chargers. SD card is great if you do anything wit Raspberry Pi's and photos.
- dmt0 5y agoOr buy an adapter like this https://www.amazon.ca/BASEQI-aluminum-microSD-Adapter-MacBook/dp/B012F38H9A https://www.amazon.ca/BASEQI-aluminum-microSD-Adapter-MacBoo... and have yourself some extra storage expansion. Might be slow, but good for things you access rarely.
- yellowapple 5y agoIn a similar boat re: chargers. It's fantastic being able to grab any ol' USB-C charger (of sufficient power) and charge just about any modern laptop short of maybe the beefier gaming laptops / portable workstations (I haven't tried charging my Dell G5 via USB-C, for example, so maybe it'd work, but I ain't betting on it).
- thallium205 5y agoThey said you can still charge it via USB-C as well as the magsafe. Your choice.
- spuz 5y agoIf I chose to buy the 14" model which comes with a 96W USB-C power adapter, does anyone who has experience of Apple products know if I could still use my existing 65W usb charger to power or charge the MacBook? My Dell XPS 15 does allow me to charge it with a 65W USB-C charger which is nice when I don't want to lug around the beefy 130W power adapter but I do have to be careful not to stress the CPU too much or it will start draining the battery. I wonder whether MacBooks have a similar "graceful fallback".
- dirkg 5y agowhy are the new models fatter, wider and heavier than the old ones? https://support.apple.com/kb/SP809?locale=en_US https://support.apple.com/kb/SP809?locale=en_US https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-14-and-16/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-14-and-16/specs/ shouldn't it be the other way around with the integrated chips, thinner screen etc etc?
- mandmandam 5y agoPeople, including me, were pleading with them to stop trying to make things so thin over giving better batter life, thermals, cost effectiveness etc for the past 7 years or so. I am delighted with this change. If you want light and thin get an Air; I want thermals, power, and bang for my buck.
- noahtallen 5y agoI’m guessing: 1. Ports need more space 3. Thermal solution probably needs more space. MBPs have had terrible thermal solutions in the past several years. Obviously M1X will be more power hungry than M1, and that requires better cooling
- andy_ppp 5y agoI hope this lasts me 5 years like my 2016 MBP! Ordered and aside from the notch (they are adding Face ID later I take it? And minority report gestures?) I think it’s PERFECT.
- ChuckMcM 5y agoPriced out the one I would buy and it is $4300. Seems the value isn't quite there. Hard to say though without playing with it for a while. So clearly I need to go back to work for some tech company that will buy one for me :-). It is more interesting to me to reflect on the comments from about 5 years ago that "ARM will never be in laptops, its a 'phone' processor." That statement was both true and ignored the reality that if you wanted to put an ARM processor in a laptop you could add features and design it to work that way. Chip design is expensive of course, and so being a company like Apple really makes it possible to do this sort of thing as a 'risk' venture, but what surprises me is that Apple spent maybe $10B over the years developing an in house ARM design capability (after buying PA Semi) and here it is paying them some huge dividends. If you compare that to Microsoft's efforts trying to use off the shelf ARM chips in the original Surface and now the Surface RT and you can really see the advantage of having the chip designers and the software designers depending on each other. That was true in the "WinTel" era when Intel and Microsoft were joined at the hip, but it was never the case for ARM CPU vendors who were more concerned about being in the next flagship phone than what ever it was that Microsoft was doing. What an interesting alternate history if Microsoft decided to develop an in house production chip capability at the same time they decided to get into the hardware business for "real." [1] [1] Yes, I'm aware they have done custom chips, the pixel/pen processor in the Surface is one such but they haven't really jumped in with both feet like Apple did, and certainly haven't had it front and center as long as Apple has.
- alienalp 5y agoFirst gen of m1 mac was first Apple product that i bought. I can't say i like Apple ecosystem or macos. I am opposite of Apple fanboy. I don't like Apple and this price they made me pay another reason for it but simply anybody who want and who can afford will buy it. There aren't any alternatives.
- lostlogin 5y agoAs a review, I like this. An expanded list of likes/dislikes from a someone with universal dissatisfaction is always good to read.
- 5y ago
- faldore 5y agonext they will be bringing back the headphone jack to the iphone
- satoshiiii 5y agoAnd here I am with my Lenovo S10-3 still doing fine in 2021. My use case is if I can produce something fast with this machine then half of the battle has already been won because by default I need to optimize for the lowest possible spec of my target market. Obviously, I know this won't apply to everyone but anyway I hope this will continue for me a couple more years.
- atommclain 5y agoThe idea pad? Is it your main computer? I have an S10-2 I bought for installing a transflective display, and I can’t imagine using it for much more than noodling around with. I just wish it was just slightly larger to accommodate a decent keyboard and a slim battery.
- satoshiiii 5y agoI have another machine for mobile app development. It's also used for consuming multimedia and gaming. The low spec machine is mostly for web development and my main Linux terminal for managing other local/remote machines.
- qolop 5y agoI'm using a 6 year old ThinkPad X250 with 4GB of RAM. The benefit of using it is that I have zero tolerance for bloated software because it just won't run on my machine. This includes the software I make. And you're right, developers SHOULD be using the lowest possible spec of the target market. Whenever I visit some bloated SPA that crashes my browser I always imagine the developer being some smug chap with a fully specced MacBook Pro patting themselves on the back for what a smooth website they've built.
- whiskyant 5y agoHow come when you upgrade to the 24 core M1 max, it adds +$600 when the upgrade lists it as +$200. After you try to remove the upgrade the price only drops by only -$200. Is this a bug?
- huy-nguyen 5y agoI think the reason is that the upgraded CPU ($200 extra) automatically triggers an upgrade of the memory config from 16GB to 32GB ($400 extra). That explains the $600 increase.
- whiskyant 5y agoAh, that makes sense.
- dirkg 5y agoone more thing ... https://store.apple.com/xc/product/MM6F3AM/A https://store.apple.com/xc/product/MM6F3AM/A
- sireat 5y agoReally hard to tell if the $800 upgrade from 16GB RAM to 32GB RAM is worth it since you also get a mysterious 16GPU to 32GPU upgrade.. 10-Core CPU 16-Core GPU 16GB Unified Memory 1TB SSD Storage¹ 16-core Neural Engine 16-inch Liquid Retina XDR display Three Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, SDXC card slot, MagSafe 3 port Magic Keyboard with Touch ID Force Touch trackpad 140W USB-C Power Adapter $2,699.00 10-Core CPU 32-Core GPU 32GB Unified Memory 1TB SSD Storage¹ 16-core Neural Engine 16-inch Liquid Retina XDR display Three Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, SDXC card slot, MagSafe 3 port Magic Keyboard with Touch ID Force Touch trackpad 140W USB-C Power Adapter $3,499.00
- NathanielK 5y agoThe M1 Max also has twice the memory channels to feed that GPU. Instead of a 256b wide "quad channel" memory controller, it has a 512b wide "octa channel" memory controller. That's an immense amount of bandwidth with LPDDR5. There's an in between 24-Core GPU for less money, but it's still quite the jump.
- awill 5y agoAll laptop manufacturers have relied on Intel for years. That was fine when Intel was competitive. But now all those manufacturers are massively behind. They can either wait for Intel to catch up (unlikely), switch to AMD, which is better, but still behind, or they can try to move to ARM. Though that's really hard since they're relying on Windows. Really this is a massive miss from Microsoft and their partners that many saw coming years ago. It's obvious that this is precisely why Apple likes to bring tech in-house. To avoid depending on something that isn't competitive.
- js2 5y agoWeird that only the 13" Pro retains the touchbar. The 13" Pro is in a really weird place now. I don't know who it's for at this point. I can't think of any reason I'd choose it. I'd either get the Air or the 14" Pro. I suspect it won't remain in the lineup for long.
- wellthisisgreat 5y agoSo which one? 14 or 16? As the main driver for a person who uses a desktop
- amelius 5y agoThe article reads like an ad.
- darkwater 5y ago> HDMI, SD Card, and MagSafe. Things people on the internet inclusive but not limited to HN said they will never come back because the future is USB-C. Gonna be downvoted for the snark but... I'd like to hear now how the "a usb-c dongle fixes everything and it's perfect" Apple crowd will backpedal on this.
- ericmay 5y agoI’m that crowd and while I think MagSafe is a good addition back to the lineup (single-purpose and the other end is still USB-C) I just don’t see the point of adding back HDMI and SD cards. Now we get to go back to the era of jeez I sure hope there’s a dongle somewhere instead of moving to a future of just one cable. Maybe we should keep Lightning too instead of USB-C for the iPhone.
- 1-more 5y agoI think everyone thought that was just over the horizon for a long time, and it never quite got there. My monitor is my dongle for everything, but I'm lucky in that I didn't have a monitor before the USB-C everything era.
- darkwater 5y agoDon't get me wrong, I'm on that camp myself, I have a Dell XPS with 2 usb-c and my LG monitor is my dongle when at home and I love it. And if I were the traveling consultant type I would just use a dongle, until everything is usb-c. I was totally on Apple side also when they removed the dvd drive when optical disks where still being used widely. It was the right tradeoff to have slimmer laptops. I was just being snarky at the Apple fanbase that cheers every Apple decision, no matter what. Especially when Apple itself backpedals on something.
- 1-more 5y agoIn terms of the outsides, this matches up almost exactly with Benjamin Button reviews the late 2016 MacBook Pro https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the_new_macbook_pro/ https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the...
- bogwog 5y ago> Designed with the earth in mind. Lol
- zitterbewegung 5y agoThe cool thing about these macs is that apple is starting to decouple the processor from the type of Mac. You can choose between a pro and a max . If they do this for it’s whole product line it would be interesting.
- farmerstan 5y agoUhhhh can the MacBooks charge via USB-C? Because I’ve been investing heavily in usb-c chargers (they are $80 and I bought 5 of them for traveling, different room etc). If they can’t be used for charging anymore I’m going to lose my shit for real
- zlsa 5y agoYes.
- wanderinghogan 5y agoThese laptops are very impressive, but until there is clarification on their CSAM scanning plans/their future intentions with that, it's going to make me wait. The thought of my OS being integrated with ANY government database with only the assurances of 'trust us, we will say no' still repels me.
- wyager 5y agoIt sucks that such brilliant hardware is effectively locked to such mediocre software and corporate policy.
- katzgrau 5y agoNo touchbar, I'm sold
- nsxwolf 5y agoAnyone else think the new cross section looks a bit odd? Very flat on top. I am glad they did not copy the rounded off corner keys from the new iMac keyboards, though.
- jcun4128 5y agoI don't miss front end work but Apple always has that fancy scroll effects going on ha.
- srvmshr 5y agoI have a feeling that if they had released an updated Mac Mini with the new chips, it would have appreciably dented the sales of new MacBook Pros. Too many people don't agree with the notch aesthetic and probably pair a discrete unit with their preferred display. Right now Apple doesn't want their race horse being outrun by an underdog.
- poo-yie 5y agoReally impressed by the new MacBook Pro. Part of me would really like to order a 14" model with M1 Pro and 32GB RAM. However, I really don't like Apple's direction with macOS. I'm still running a 13" MacBook Pro from 2013. What's a little strange is that I first came to Mac with the introduction of OSX 10.0 although I wasn't overly keen of the hardware at the time. Now, I feel that the situation is reversed. I really like the hardware and am beginning to despise the software -- possibly to the point of abandoning the platform completely. Several years ago, I moved my music collection out of Apple's software and I use an Android phone. I use an old iPad for web browsing and Youtube. I purposefully transitioned to a point where I can leave the Mac platform without a huge effort. It makes me wonder.
- y7 5y agoI'm exactly the same. I was looking forward to leaving Apple's ecosystem and getting a Framework laptop or something similar (I'd prefer AMD and I'd like to run Qubes, which is rather picky with its hardware). But with this release Apple is making it hard to do.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- wyuenho 5y agoApple has finally put a braided cable in their charger. I hope we can say goodbye to 20 years of charger cable breakage.
- codingclaws 5y agoWow, scrolling controls the animation frame by frame. Never seen that. Cool and frightening.
- soheil 5y agoWhy does the notch have to be so big if it's only used for a camera unlike iPhone where it hosts a multitude of sensors?
- soheil 5y agoThe notch is awful, it took Apple years to finally upgrade their crapy 720p camera to a mere 1080 and now they added an ugly notch around it that ruins the aesthetic of every program in fullscreen. Even in normal mode I have several menubar apps that show things like cpu load, bandwidth, etc that span almost the full width of the screen, the notch will certainly make it worse.
- lr1970 5y agoJust configured a MBP 16" with M1 Max, 64GB RAM and 2TB SSD. Delivery (USA) December 23-rd. WTF?
- busymom0 5y agoThe notch doesn't look annoying on the Mac as that area is used by the menu bar anyway. However, I don't understand the reason for it since it doesn't have faceid. Why not just go for a punch hole design? What else is in that notch??
- soheil 5y agoMaybe they added the notch so that when they remove it next year people will have to dish out another 2-5k to get the non-notch version. Specially given that there were a lot rumors that iPhone was going to get rid of its notch this year. Now it's likely to happen next year.
- soheil 5y agoUsing the m1 air for almost a year now I can't imagine going to another laptop with a fan. Doesn't matter what I ever do there is never any noise. I'm sure the fan in the Pro models almost never come on and you could also install something to limit max cpu frequency before fan is turned on, but having no fan is the next level.
- poulsbohemian 5y agoThese look great, but why bother continuing to sell the 13" or the Air? Or said another way - if the Air and the 13" are basically your "loss leader" then why continue to sell both.
- troupe 5y agoThe number of ports on a mac seem inversely related to how much Jony Ives was involved in its creation.
- whatever1 5y agoI really wished for a 120hz 6k external monitor that does not have all the HDR / dimming zone fluff and does not cost $6000 usd.
- Yaina 5y agoI guess I'm pretty much alone here, but I don't really like these new MacBooks. The things I'm happy about: - Function keys are back! - They kept touchID - Chips are probably pretty good - Headphone jack, yay! But what I really dislike: - The case-design looks kind of outdated. I'm getting MacBook Pro 2006 vibes here. - The base price starts at 2.000$ (2250€) ! - The notch... On the iPhone the notch was justified with a whole sensor array for FaceID, now we have something similar sized here for one 1080p camera. With a hole-punch I wouldn't have said anything; but here I'd rather have 2-3cm of bezels than a big notch. - I really bought into the USB-C future! I know that's not the case for everyone, and the addition of the SD-Card reader is welcome. But the HDMI port seems a bit...strange to me. It doesn't really cry "future of connectivity". I charge my MacBook with USB-C I connect my screens with USB-C (to display port) and for my occasional USB-A and HDMI needs I get out my one dongle. This actually seems like a step backwards for me. I know lots of these are highly opinionated, but...yeah: Bummer for me.
- efuquen 5y agoYou loose one usb-c port to get all the others. I've never needed 4 usb-c ports at a time, but definitely have needed all the others. And one usb-c port is replaced by power, which many times I have had to use one for anyway. So whether you bought into full usb-c future or not I don't see the extra ports hurting you. Maybe a 'whatever', but don't see it as a reason to dislike it.
- Yaina 5y agoI guess my line of thinking is that Apple going full USB-C was one major reason that the port took off for computers (USB-Sticks, Drives, Monitors, etc.). It feels like they surrender after winning. I never really cared for MagSafe but I'm also not super annoyed about it being there (just a old/new proprietary charging port), but the HDMI port...that creates the same feeling for me as if they had added a USB-A or VGA port honestly.
- thatswrong0 5y agoI don't really see it as surrendering at all. The vast majority of consumers don't need the power the Macbook Pros offer. I see this more as an (IMO overdue) acknowledgement of the target audience. The M1 iMac and the M1 Macbook only have USB-C ports.
- m0zg 5y agoIt's the "Fuck you Jony" edition. Ports (including HDMI!), MagSafe, and no touchbar. Would be a fine laptop if it didn't have government spyware baked in that I can't turn off even if I power it down.
- crubier 5y agoThe 1000nits display (1600nits "peak", whatever that means), is a major selling point for me!
- nitins_jakta 5y agoUnfortunately it looks like Apple still has no option to disable temporal dithering or other sources of flicker (PWM, pixel inversion, etc). A minority of people have binocular vision dysfunctions (like convergence insufficiency) that give them severe eyestrain, headaches and migraines when this flicker occurs. Apple should treat this like an accessibility issue (like VoiceOver) but does not. The current treatment from behavioral optometrists is not always effective. I recently found a whole community on this: https://ledstrain.org https://ledstrain.org. If you have expertise in displays, please join us on LED Strain! We were hoping Apple would address these accessibility issues and let people with vision problems use their products.
- buzzert 5y agoDo you have to use laptops with cathode backlights instead?
- nitins_jakta 5y agoAh, so for most of us LED itself is not strictly the problem. Low quality ones with a low refresh rate, like in some department stores, are a problem. It is likely other sources of flicker like temporal dithering (FRC), you can see it here (it is on Windows too): https://youtu.be/0y-I3hqQgCQ https://youtu.be/0y-I3hqQgCQ The visual noise/dots you see is the dithering. The e-ink display is slow enough so we can see it. People with BVDs are strongly affected by that noise...and unfortunately simple pair of glasses does not help.
- tcoff91 5y agoHave you considered trying Neurolens? http://www.neurolenses.com/ http://www.neurolenses.com/ If you've already tried prism lenses to help address the convergence insufficiency then these won't help. These are basically prism lenses but they're a progressive prism so the prism is strongest at the bottom and nonexistent at the top so you can wear one pair of glasses all day and have them help with devices but still have good distance vision through the top part of the lens.
- 5y ago
- mLuby 5y agoHooray for the return of MagSafe and the other ports! Thank you for listening, Apple. Just one mention of "games" and it's about the display resolution, so it sounds like Apple still doesn't care about getting more game developers on Mac. > thermal systems move 50 percent more air, even at lower fan speeds. Does that mean it's even louder than before?
- lethologica 5y agoThese are pretty much everything I’ve been waiting to upgrade to from my Pro 2015 model which has gotten very long in the tooth now.
- bengale 5y agoCan anyone recommend a dock that does 140w charging? Right now I use a Caldigit one but it only puts out 90w I think so I’ll need an upgrade.
- thehappypm 5y agoHuge vote of no confidence for the USB-C-only future, and I'm not sad about it.
- johncalvinyoung 5y agoThe only thing I'm disappointed on is that I was really hoping for Ethernet-over-MagSafe like the iMac power adapter.
- c7DJTLrn 5y agoGod I want Linux on these things. Apple have built some very sexy hardware, but I'm still not into the OS. It's just... sluggish (mostly in terms of productivity, not performance), too barebones, too basic and toy-like. I need a real OS to make my dream laptop.
- riffic 5y agoas beautiful as the hardware is, I just cannot stomach buying another machine I can not comfortably replace the battery in. Either Apple returns to its earliest roots of making machines that are easy to repair, or find me and many others buying machines from the likes of Frame.work instead.
- reustle 5y agoIs it difficult to replace the battery in these new models? I changed the battery in my 2016-ish macbook air in about 5 minutes, and it looks like my 2018 macbook pro is the same design.
- riffic 5y agoiFixIt doesn't really agree with you about the MacBook Pro with the glued-in battery. The MacBook air however was ironically easier to fix: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Bar+2018+Battery+Replacement/122269 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Touch+Bar+2... https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Early+2017+Battery+Replacement/135927 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Early+2017+...
- NotPractical 5y agoIt's extremely difficult (and risky) to replace the battery in any 2016+ MacBook Pro. In fact, it's so difficult, even Apple won't do it, so when you send a MBP in for a "battery replacement", they replace the entire top case instead of just the battery [1]. The Air models have different designs. As the other commenter pointed out, you're probably referring to the early 2017 Air, for which battery replacement is a breeze. The 2018+ Air has adhesive pull strips, making replacement relatively easy: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13%E2%80%9D+Retina+Display+Late+2018+Battery+Replacement/135301 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13%E2%80%9D+Retina+... If Apple hasn't switched to adhesive pull strips for these models, it's very disingenuous to advertise that they were "Designed with the earth in mind" like this website says. The battery is the only "consumable" component in the laptop, so it's completely unacceptable for it not to be designed for replacement. [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/07/2018-macbook-air-battery-individually-replaceable/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/07/2018-macbook-air-batter... > the battery can be individually replaced in the new MacBook Air [...] In all other MacBook and MacBook Pro models with a Retina display released since 2012, when a customer has required a battery replacement, Apple has replaced the entire top case enclosure, including the keyboard and trackpad. This implies that (at least from 2016-2019) they were replacing the entire top case assembly in MBP.
- dukeofdoom 5y agoDes anyone know if the faster internal drive is included on the base model? storage speed makes a huge difference for practical use.
- wly_cdgr 5y agoNot a detachable or a 2-in-1? Pass
- wly_cdgr 5y agoMBPs are irrelevant in the age of Surface Book and Framework
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- exabrial 5y agoThis is beautiful... I'd pay $4k for a mac without a damned touch bar! Now if they can just get rid of the legacy lightning jack on the iPhone.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y agoI'm curious to know why they decided to keep the headphone jack. I thought the narrative was that users don't need it. it's obsolete and wireless audio is the new normal. Yet, it is still there. It seems slightly incoherent.
- roody15 5y agoSimply too pricey… my two cents. Like to see the return of useful ports but 2,000$ a bit high here
- vzaliva 5y agoThe hardware is amazing, but I could not see myself going back to proprietary closed source OS. I would like to chose the distro (hey some people want NIX some OK with Ubuntu), X11 vs Wayland, pick the display manager, decide if I want to run LTS or beelding-edge, etc. My only hope is that some day Linux support all MBP hardware well enough to use this a Linux laptop.
- tashmahalic 5y agoDid anyone catch how many external monitors these can drive, and at what resolutions and refresh rates?
- syspec 5y agoUp to two external displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors (M1 Pro) or Up to three external displays with up to 6K resolution and one external display with up to 4K resolution at 60Hz at over a billion colors (M1 Max)
- rsync 5y agoWill we ever get another 11" MBA ? Best laptop form factor of all time. Of all time.
- awiesenhofer 5y agoThat's the 13" M1 MBA now, it has basically the same dimensions (+-5mm)...
- Program_Install 5y agoBeast machines for sure, Apple is doing a good job with their M Series chips. I can't wait for the next Intel commercial, complete meltdown.
- didip 5y agoI am so excited that the new MacBook Pro contains so many things that customers had been yearning. Couple that with 64GB RAM and M1 Max, if I am going to spend > $3000 for a laptop, this MBP is basically the only game in town for me.
- rackjack 5y agoDo they have an escape key? (This is not a joke question.)
- zamadatix 5y agoYes, there are plenty of pictures of it on the page https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-pro-14-and-16/a/images/overview/ports/magsafe__wkeiwwe9e36i_large.jpg https://www.apple.com/v/macbook-pro-14-and-16/a/images/overv...
- karxxm 5y agoDoes someone know the implications of the new M1 chips for neural network training? If I get it right, we'll see upto 64GB GPU on the new M1 processors? The processing performance will not be the same as on a dedicated graphics card, but 64GB is a game changer, especially for large models, isn't it?
- atlgator 5y agoIt seems like Apple purposely comes so close to offering the perfect laptop only to falter hard on one or two features. In this case, it's the battery life. Continuous web use time is down from 17 hours on the 2020 13" M1 to 11 hours on the new 14". That's "up to" time, mind you, and with real use as a developer I expect getting 75% of that at most. So 11 hours just isn't enough time. I buy a laptop for mobility. I shouldn't have to plug it in at all during my work day. Yes, it's better than competitors but still lacking. I would have been happier if they took the 13" M1 and added the ports.
- kzrdude 5y agoyes this is not an upgrade to the M1 at all - it is a parallel product! Seems like M1 can still be a very good deal.
- soylentnewsorg 5y agoOk, I believe you're being sarcastic, because this little paragraph is ridiculous, so I'll address it as if you are - because then you have a very good point. This is Apple's Pro line. There is no more performant laptop that they make. It's a portable workstation - a home tower that you can take with you. If people want battery life of 10+ hours or a light weight, they get the model optimized for that. Apple seems to not offer a real pro laptop (portable workstation) - period. People who use these pro laptops are either compiling code or doing heavy graphics. Work gives us Dell Precision laptops with 9 hours battery life during casual use, a pretty dang powerful discreet GPU, and oh - Xeon CPUs. No offense apple, but this "pro" laptop is a toy in comparison. So I don't get it - apple's plan. I couldn't seriously use their products for work unless I want to lose productivity. Why don't they make something that's actually "pro" instead of calling what everyone else calls mid-tier a "pro" and then completely excluding the actual pro target market all together. Do they just not want more money? As a developer, waiting less time for your device to finish an operation, while sitting there reading HN, makes you not need as much battery life. And the Dell seems designed for a full workday plus an hour. Now, I'm not a dev - did that for a year of my 20+ year career, too much sitting looking at code. I do however script a lot - with gigs of text output from data collection of logs and performance data, usually doing basic calculations or transformations. I look a lot at large datasets and graph them. I need a big GPU, I need fast CPUs. I mount up a 20G RAM drive because the disk is too slow. Now yeah - when compared to another Apple laptop w/ a Xeon, the M1 is faster for single threaded specialized workloads. Because Apple uses CPUs a generation behind everyone else, has worse cooling, and still loses on multicore. In real life, when I run a shell script on my laptop, and a coworker runs it on the same dataset on an M1, his is an all day run - he does it overnight. I do it over a long lunch - it's not even a real comparison. Now yes - My laptop gets hot, fans are blasting, and if my charge is at 80%, it literally won't charge while the script is running. But... that's what I want from a "pro." Now, his isn't a pro, and it stays barely warm. But we're talking the difference between 7 hours and 2 hours here. I don't think the "pro" is going to be all that much better. So I get the apples to old apples comparison. However apples to flagships from others - I highly doubt apple a serious contender for the portable workstation. Which is what "pro" should be.
- SpelingBeeChamp 5y agoNo one seems to be commenting on the 140 watt power adapter. With the caveat that I already dropped $7k (after tax) on a top-spec model, I am very interested in seeing how hot these get. Particularly in light of how cool the M1 runs. Prior to my current M1 MBP, my daily driver was a maxed-out 16" MBP. It's a very solid computer, but it functions just as well as a space heater. And its power brick is only 100 watts...
- clarkmo 5y agoThe 140w power adapter is for fast charging I believe.
- dang 5y agoAll: to read all 1300 comments in this thread, click More at the bottom of the page, or like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=3 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=3 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=4 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=4 (Comments like this will eventually go away - sorry for the annoyance.)
- tytrdev 5y agoNow if I could just get one with an ortho keyboard layout… The 14 inch max with 64 gb ram looks fucking T A S T Y. If only my hands could laptop keyboard ={
- brailsafe 5y agoI'm happy to magsafe back. Even though I usually have mine sitting on a stand, I'm just lucky that I haven't yanked everything off my desk at this point. HDMI I couldn't care less about, but I suppose it provides another way to hook up to my display. I use a usb-c -> displayport connector most of the time though.
- Waterluvian 5y agoSo close. But that camera notch would drive me nuts. Curious: does it cut into a normal resolution/ratio or is it giving you extra pixels at the sides of the camera?
- truculent 5y agoExtra pixels on top of 16:10 iirc
- dd444fgdfg 5y agoI prefer my linux machine, but with hardware this good it feels kinda dumb to be on intel/amd...
- lefrenchy 5y agoI’m so frustrated. I bought the 13inch M1 in July, and was bummed it only supports one external display and has only two USB-C ports. This makes it pretty frustrating to use at my workstation (can't use all my monitors, hard to connect my keyboard/mouse/peripherals). Not even 3 months later they release this? It feels like such a fucking gut punch, I would have returned my M1 had I known that this was coming…
- andyfleming 5y agoIf I recall correctly, I think they were up front about more processors/updates coming later. The M1 is still a good computer, but that 13in was never going to be the same as the fully new gen of MacBook Pros.
- thatswrong0 5y agoThe October refresh timeframe was posted pretty much everywhere on the internet that mentioned an updated M1 Macbook Pro. The M1 was released last November. This didn't come out of nowhere.
- resters 5y agoThe pricing suggests that the M1 mini was priced aggressively as a marketing strategy, and that now that the dust is settling the cost of the M1 powered macs is going to be less of a value win than I'd initially hoped. Looking forward to actual use benchmarks for the things I'd use it for.
- zlsa 5y agoOn paper, the M1 Pro 10-core CPUs are faster multicore than any Mac ever except for the Mac Pro and iMac Pro. They're faster than the i9-11900k. It remains to be seen if they are as fast in practice as they are in theory, but if they are, I don't think they're overpriced.
- plg 5y agoWhat is the closest thing to these that runs GNU/Linux?
- binkHN 5y agoAs someone who loves ThinkPads, I want to cry. Apple is, finally, wiping the floor with them.
- mushufasa 5y agoWe've passed 1337 comments
- mcculley 5y agoStill no LTE modem. The Apple Watch can be configured with an LTE modem, but the highest-end MacBook Pro cannot. Is this because of Qualcomm royalties? Is there any technical reason why the market has failed?
- RandallBrown 5y agoI imagine it's because tethering with your phone is good enough for the vast majority of people.
- mcculley 5y agoWhy does Dell ship with one?
- macintux 5y agoI assume Dell still offers dozens of laptop configurations, so it’s easier to find your preferred combination of features (if you don’t mind researching). Apple keeps a much more streamlined lineup than any other major laptop manufacturer.
- mcculley 5y agoI travel a lot. I hate having to babysit the tethering and to worry about using up my phone's battery when I am trying to get some work done. It would be awesome to have an Internet connection that works all the time, as with iPhones, iPads, Watches, and laptops from other companies. It is obviously not a significant engineering challenge to put another radio in the laptop if the Watch has it. I read somewhere that Apple has to pay Qualcomm a royalty based on the price of the device and that this is why MacBook Pro buyers cannot have an LTE modem. I don't understand how other vendors are able to ship an LTE modem if this is the case. Can anybody enlighten me?
- heartbreak 5y agoYou can plug your phone into your laptop, and then you don't have to worry about the battery. Why waste money and resources on duplicating something you're going to have on-hand whenever you're using your laptop anyway? Apple has made it a particularly seamless experience between macOS and iPhones, too. As long as you're on the same iCloud account (or iCloud family) as the phone, the phone will always show up in the WiFi list as a hotspot. You can work off your phone's internet without even pulling it out of your pocket to set anything up.
- rubyist5eva 5y agoWhen are the 27" iMacs coming?
- finalight 5y agothe price diff between this and the previous model is huge
- throwaway20875 5y agoNo greater example of the decline of our society: the contrast between HN's focus and attention to this product announcement and the NSA leaks.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- arvinsim 5y agoBoth 14" and 16" can use the highest spec Pro processor. But the 14" only needs 96W while the 16" can go up to 140W. Does that mean that the 14" will be throttled on heavy workloads?
- therein 5y agoGood question. Also has smaller battery. I initially ordered the 14" with M1 Max and 64GB of RAM but then switched to the 16" because of the 17hr vs 21hr battery life.
- prvc 5y agoThe keybed now appears to be of a similar color to the keys. Does this indicate that the keyboards are now easily replaceable units?
- honksillet 5y agoOk. Now make it repairable.
- srvmshr 5y agoI dread manually resizing tiled windows every single time now. This is especially true if others in my situation do code reviews on two side-by-side non-fullscreen windows. > Comment moved from other post.
- sharmin123 5y agoHow to Protect Your Privacy And Personal Data from Hackers?: https://www.hackerslist.co/how-to-protect-your-privacy-and-personal-data-from-hackersfrom-hackers-protect-personal-data/ https://www.hackerslist.co/how-to-protect-your-privacy-and-p...
- CephalopodMD 5y agoFixed everything they've broken in the past 5 years then added a notch... They haven't had a perfect machine in years, and the trend continues.
- modzu 5y agoit has a notch
- tmellon2 5y agoDoes anyone have a handle on how the new M1X is expected to perform on Deep Learning training runs vs a NVIDIA 1080Ti / 2080Ti. I think the 400 Gbps bandwidth and 64 GB unified memory will help - but can anyone extrapolate based on the M1 ?
- Eugeleo 5y agoIf you find out, let me know! I'd love to know this, too.
- tfcata 5y agoThe notch is the most stupid feature. The stupid touch bar is gone but here you must swallow this. Apple just likes to screw you one way or the other.
- vvoaterr 5y agoI came into these comments and one guy said "The machine I spec'ced out only costs $4300" and another guy said "They just put back the ports and features they should have kept in 2011" and I noped out of these comments. Your mileage may vary.
- e-clinton 5y agoApple is offering $1400 for my 16” 2019 Machine. Really tempted to take it and put an order in.
- Wolfenstein98k 5y agoThe best features are backflips. Says a lot about recent Apple choices - the backflip says the most.
- gorgoiler 5y agoApology accepted, but way to drag your heels. You couldn’t just say sorry could you, Apple? You had to throw in a little barb at the same time. That’s ok: you wouldn’t be you if you weren’t overly prideful. Escape keys are 1U.
- potas 5y agoSeems like a great improvement over the latest models (since 2015). Still, I'll wait until they fix issues with virtualization. I don't know how virtual machines will perform on the M1 but I doubt it will match performance on PC Linux machines.
- thefounder 5y agoStill no OLED or MicroLed. New charger type...great!
- wiz21c 5y agoDancers ? How much of the $1999 go into advertisement ?
- simonebrunozzi 5y agoWondering how videogames will play on a specced-out MB pro, and whether this insane amount of GPU power will drive some developers who also are gamers to this machine.
- mihaaly 5y agoThat notch thing will put me off! Ugliest impractical thing causing additional efforts and potential troubles unnecessarily. Avoiding iPhones with that, will do the same with laptops. And that magsafe -> no magsafe -> magsafe again disarray! Come on, make up your f mind. I held off buying new computer looong, did not want to leave MagSafe, it recently died so was forced into USB-C charging, which I did not want at all, ok, reshaped my practice and now this?! A never existed incompatible magsafe again?! I don't want to switch yet again, the magsafe 1 to 2 was a pain alone, then USB-C is a torture, I fn not do that again! Ok it presumably charges through thunderbolt 4 ports too with USB-C (theoretically, one never knows as I heard) but you spread your new magsafe after killing it proudly and loudly!? Jesus! How come Apple can ruin and confuse things so effortlessly, do they have a mandatory training in that or what?! It is big kudos to remove touchbar, have (have?) proper keyboard after the pathetic stumble series of trying to reinvent the wheel and f up the life of millions (the Air M1 is flawed still, repeats keys frequently), hallelujah for having HDMI again, finally paying attention of practicaliities in a consumer product not just the appearances and show-off but come on! Now this idiotic notch thing and the zillionth way of charging again? Very off putting, again, continuouusly now. Actually not interested to buy. (luckily I do not need a power plannt only a decent performing one so I can live with my advanced Air M1 for long long long time - assuming the keybard holds off -, when my wife's old Air dies we will stick to that or turning back to some serious manufacturer making laptops for use not for show)
- gnrlst 5y agoYou know it still supports USB-C charging right? Rather than confusion, I would see it as Apple finally turning things around and getting back on a road that is less "design above all else"
- mihaaly 5y agoHow could you possibly now that, especially after decade long design fallacy over practicality and with this notch thing?! You have no foundation for this claim that it will happen just based one lone step back into the right direction. The best we can say is that after intensionally ruining practicality for the elusive gods of design there was a little light of hope, that's it! (btw.: "it presumably charges through thunderbolt 4 ports too")
- vletal 5y agoCome on! 140W adapter? I thought that the efficient M1 design will allow us to return to the 80W range for the 16".
- rStar 5y agotheory: the notch is apples way to keep people from taping over the webcam, a few percentage points. who benefits from less tape, at population scale, on a little used but programmatically controllable camera?
- ralmidani 5y agoI’m seriously considering buying a middle-spec M1 MBP, and I also have a preorder for a DIY Edition Framework laptop[0]. I realize devices which give users more freedom to tinker, repair, customize, improve, etc. may never compete for market share with locked-down devices which are harder to repair, upgrade, and recycle, but my hope is that the former will at least remain a viable option. It’s tempting to splurge on a top-of-the-line MBP, but I prefer to split my money so at least some of it goes toward sustainable and freedom-respecting computing. [0]https://frame.work/laptop-diy-edition https://frame.work/laptop-diy-edition
- kaladin_1 5y agoWell, you get to vote with your wallet. I'm also considering between the M1 Pro and Framework Laptop but not sure the Framework will be at par with what Apple delivers functions-wise. Regarding Framework using intel chip, I haven't really seen a strong argument comparing its specs with that of M1 other than the repairability. I'm not quite sure that's everyone's priority. Sure, if you've ever spent 2k repairing your Mac cos you don't have Apple Care, repairability becomes an important issue.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hahajk 5y agoIt’s not just repairability. It’s that everyone in this thread says “Apple gave us hdmi! They got rid of the touch bar!” Maybe this falls under “upgradability” but the idea of Framework is that the user decides what to include. Like with FOSS vs proprietary software. If the developers remove a popular UI element, there’s a good chance you can add a compiler flag or find a fork with what you’re looking for. (This is the idea, but we’ll see if it pans out in reality. I don’t like Framework’s smooshed arrow keys; the idea is that I can switch that out to a 3rd party I like. The reality is that there is so far no 3rd party keyboard.)
- vinay427 5y ago> the idea of Framework is that the user decides what to include. I agree that this is true, at least in theory. I also had a preorder for the Framework laptop. In practice, the problem is that modularity in this case seems to come at the cost of fewer ports, even if these ports are more flexible. The Framework has up to 3 available USB C ports after accommodating a charger. That matches the MBP in USB, but the Mac also adds HDMI and the SD card reader. One could even attempt this case with some other laptops like the X1 Carbon (2 USB C, 2 USB A, HDMI) compared to the Framework, for those who would have otherwise equipped the Framework with a few USB A ports. Obviously, being able to change these ports has long-term benefits where the Framework shines, but personally I can't see my preferred ports changing enough to offset the cost of modularity.
- fnord77 5y agoI guess Moore's law is slowing down? the single-core benchmark for this is about 2x better than the score for my 2012 macbook pro. 2x in 10 years doesn't seem that great.
- Lamad123 5y agoBig sur = Big brother
- Griffinsauce 5y agoPretty bummed about magsafe. No more taking one charger for 5 devices and another single purpose cable that isn't so easy to get a workable backup/replacement for.
- gchokov 5y agoYou can still charge via thunderbolt / usb-c!! :)
- Griffinsauce 5y agoAaah that's nice. I hope they don't bundle the charger then.
- theodric 5y agoCool, the screen has a chunk taken out of it, great stuff. I'm sure everyone will consider this a feature, and next year you'll hardly be able to get a PC laptop without a third of the top of the screen devoted to a notch and hard radii ground off the top corners, as well. Glad I bought my M1 when I did. At least it's a normal laptop.
- matthew-wegner 5y agoIt has a chunk added to it. It's a 16:10 area with an extra 74 pixels on top for the menu bar. It renders full black in fullscreen apps.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- lopis 5y agoIt has two extra chunks of screen where before it was just black bezel? I'm not a user of these machines, nor do I use iPhones, but I still don't understand why people hate notches so much.
- ubermonkey 5y agoThese are the best Mac laptops in YEARS. I'm only 2 years into a usually-3-to-5-year replacement cycle, and I'm VERY tempted, especially with the trade-in offer on my 2019 model. I guess it was Jony Ive that was pushing the "thinness above everything else" mantra that gave us embarrassing keyboards and no ports other than USB-C. I'm very glad he's gone and that's over.
- aj_nikhil 5y agoApple is becoming more and more like other brands. It's losing it's think different mojo.
- dumpsterdiver 5y agoNow as soon as they add a lightningbolt port (not to be confused with thunderbolt) for the (ahem) headphones jack, then we can finally do away with all of the hideous dongles.
- todd8 5y agoI have been very happy with my M1 systems, and I’m looking forward to getting function keys back. However, the SD card capability is coming back at a time when pros are moving to CFExpress cards. Unfortunately, there are some form factor differences between these new, much faster, cards used in higher end Sony, Cannon, and Nikon cameras. It’s a bit confusing since there are three types of CFExpress cards—I wonder if the new MacBook Pros can read any of them?