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It is a great irony that the heavy handed push for "protect da kids" is all happening while we learn, day by day, that the richest and most powerful members of
by pibaker 9mo ago
It is a great irony that the heavy handed push for "protect da kids" is all happening while we learn, day by day, that the richest and most powerful members of our society have no problem hanging out with a convicted child sex trafficker.
Rules for thee, free love for me.
- nickpinkston 9mo agoI'm fine with the free love and debauchery, but just really keep it to adults and be safe.
- RIMR 9mo agoI'm just going to go ahead and say that "free love" is a terribly inappropriate way to refer to sex trafficking, regardless of the age of the victims, unless you're being facetious (e.g., The Onion's "Penis Goofin'" allegations against Epstein).
- cgriswald 9mo agoI’m going to suggest re-reading the top level comment and the GP’s response. I don’t see anyone suggesting non-facetiously that free love and sex trafficking are synonymous nor that sex trafficking of adults is acceptable. I think the top level poster is being facetious; such a view is how these creeps might think. I think the respondent is, intentionally or mistakenly, ignoring that context and using the term at face value.
- gertarrsr 9mo ago[dead]
- handedness 9mo ago'I'm fine with extreme indulgence, but just really keep it restrained and be safe.' By definition, debauchery with durable constraints can't be normalized, as its appeal is the overstepping of norms. There's also an argument to be made that normalizing debauchery invites scope creep.
- ActorNightly 9mo agoWhat do you mean day by day. We have known this to be the case, for quite some time, yet majority of the public still thought that a convicted felon was good enough to be president.
- dijit 9mo agoI think that's the exact irony that the parent is eluding to. It's all about the kids, unless, idk, you're rich enough?
- kelseyfrog 9mo agoAndrew Carnegie's The Gospel of Wealth[1] lies squarely in the center of the foundational belief that those who've acquired such means have done so because they reflect "the highest type of man, the best and most valuable of all that humanity has yet accomplished." It takes only a brief glimpse of the real world and its most wealthy to recognize that an abundance of virtue is not what's reflected in reality. In fact, the benevolence Carnegie describes, serves as a smoke screen for cruelty, degenerate acts, and the slaughterhouse of the soul. We've sold out every moral for a bait and switch and it's well past time to reneg on the social contract. 1. https://www.carnegie.org/about/our-history/gospelofwealth/ https://www.carnegie.org/about/our-history/gospelofwealth/
- rob74 9mo agoI think you've got that quote backwards. In full it reads: > Unequally or unjustly, perhaps, as these laws sometimes operate, and imperfect as they appear to the Idealist, they are, nevertheless, like the highest type of man, the best and most valuable of all that humanity has yet accomplished. Or (to shorten it a bit): "These laws (of capitalism) [...] are nevertheless [..] the best and most valuable of all that humanity has yet accomplished". So this is only an unlimited belief in the virtues of capitalism, not in the virtues of rich people. From the introduction: > Carnegie believed in giving wealth away during one’s lifetime, and this essay includes one of his most famous quotes, “The man who dies thus rich dies disgraced.” Carnegie’s message continues to resonate with and inspire leaders and philanthropists around the world. I really wonder what Carnegie would think about his successors dismantling USAID?
- volf_ 9mo agodo as we say, not as we do
- tux3 9mo agoI am not a native English speaker, I may be missing a cultural nuance, but I wouldn't call any of what they did love. That word enters nowhere in a sickening child abuse island.
- ambicapter 9mo agoit's just sarcasm.
- ingohelpinger 9mo agoand they keep protecting the pedos from prosecution. lol.
- uncletscollie 9mo ago[dead]
- zozbot234 9mo agoThis is no worse than Discord just banning NSFW content wholesale throughout the platform (which they would be entirely within their rights to do). It's a big fat nothingburger.
- FireBeyond 9mo agoExcept it is scarily easy to find servers which openly have minors selling NSFW content. Or BDSM servers targeted at "14-28 year olds".
- danaris 9mo agoIt's not a nothingburger; it's a massive collection of personally identifying information.
- subscribed 9mo agoEspecially by the company already involved in a leak of a massive trove of pictures, personal details (including IDs), etc: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8jmzd972leo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8jmzd972leo What could possibly go wrong this time...
- Morromist 9mo agoIt would be in their rights to do it. Its users who value their privacy will be in their rights to leave and we will.
- johnnyanmac 9mo agoThey have a right to ask for my passport and SSN. And I have a right to say "hell no" and delete my account in response.
- RobotToaster 9mo agoI'm sure the owners of Tumblr thought the same.
- Macha 9mo ago
- oguz-ismail2 9mo agoIt's a question of scale. Neither crime is less serious but far more children are groomed and abused over Discord than flown in via some super rich sicko's private jet for a 'costume party'.
- johnnyanmac 9mo agoMaking everyone "teens by default" fixes none of that, though. Roblox spaces aren't exactly 18+
- nickpsecurity 9mo ago[flagged]
- spauldo 9mo agoI don't recall the Bible saying much about who to vote for, given that democracy wasn't much of a thing in the ancient middle east.
- nickpsecurity 9mo agoThe Bible tells us how to pick godly leaders. It also gives many examples of those doing right and wrong. For both, leaders exist today with similar worldviews. So, it's directly applicable. Thomas Jefferson took inspiration for our system from Jethro's advice to Moses: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2018%3A14-23&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2018%3A1... Here's the elder requirements under Christ. Notice that teaching and character are the main focus. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%203%3A1-13&version=ESV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%203... Which character traits in the baove passages do you think lead to good leaders? Which do you reject as wicked? I think, and have seen, that they all lead to good outcomes.
- hackable_sand 9mo agoThomas Jefferson treated humans as objects.
- nickpsecurity 9mo agoYou and I commit sins, too. Should everything we've ever said be disregarded? If you are sharing opinions, you can't possibly believe that. If you expect people to listen to and weigh your comments, we should consider his as well. Especially since they were part of building a great, adaptable system that we are benefiting from now.
- subscribed 9mo ago
- johndhi 9mo agohe was convicted of soliciting prostitution (not of minors), right? why do we assume that the people he was hanging out with knew the details of what he did wrong?
- anon84873628 9mo agoThis article was on the front page recently: https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=9534 https://scottaaronson.blog/?p=9534 So at least some lay people easily realized he wasn't worth getting involved with.
- johndhi 9mo agogood call! hadn't read that.
- ibejoeb 9mo agoHe pled to Procuring Person under 18 for Prostitution.
- johndhi 9mo agoI could be wrong and would be happy to be so but it seems like this to me: If someone did a few months of house arrest for "pleading guilty to solicitation of prostitution involving a minor" it would be incredibly easy for that person to say - whoops, she said she was 25 and then they threw the book at me." And not terribly unreasonable for someone to take him at his word on that. The real crime is that the prosecutors massively under charged him for doing an insane gigantic awful pedophile recruitment ring. No one really knew that til a long time later.
- hardlianotion 9mo agoHe was arrested for sex trafficking minors and convicted procuring a child for prostitution.
- Finnucane 9mo agoHe ran a sex-trafficking ring that involved hundreds of girls and women. Possibly over a thousand. He wasn't keeping it all to himself.
- alexfromapex 9mo agoPeople don't realize that all of our problems lately are stemming from lack of truly representative government. Until we find a way to ensure political candidates aren't corrupt and bought off, there will always be corruption, double standards, and lack of accountability from them.
- octoberfranklin 9mo agoTerm limits for congress.
- tremon 9mo agoAnd age limits for congress.
- vunderba 9mo agoSame for the Supreme Court. 20 years. A lifetime appointment is no different than a king.
- octoberfranklin 8mo agoThat's not an elected office.
- vunderba 8mo agoI never said it was.
- chr15m 9mo agoBring back sortition, within elected parties.
- johnnyanmac 9mo agoThat's a lot of work to do. It ultimately works off the issue that most voters are disengaged, while the most interested parties are very engaged. Corruption is happening out in the open and there's still so many people shrugging in response. One good push back from everyone all at once would fix a lot of things quickly. But that implies the people are united and not instead driven into manufactured conflict by said interested parties. It's basically enough that we're in a post truth era as of now. I don't know how we come back from that Anyways, repealing Citizens United would be a good first step.
- mrtksn 9mo agoIt is kind of obvious that once someone reaches such a power they should be monitored all the time. Criminality among the rich and the politically connected is off the charts. It’s way beyond any group of immigrants for example that these same people are trying to demonize. Chat control? Every single politician should have that on their phone.
- agilob 9mo agoThey will have that exception on their phones.
- hacker_homie 9mo agoI think politicians should be the least privileged people in a society except those in prison. Any protections or exceptions for them alone are unconstitutional.
- dolebirchwood 9mo agoAn idea I like to bounce around is that everyone at the highest offices of power (not going to define that here) should be forced to live in monastic conditions during the term in which they hold power. You are fed, clothed, and housed by the state. You have no luxurious amenities, no exercise of personal wealth, no contact with anyone other than for official business. If you honorably discharge your duties to the completion of your term of office, you will be compensated for life to such a degree that you will never have to work again. There's a lot of nuance that I'm glossing over, but the gist is that holding powerful positions ought to require severe personal sacrifice, but you will be handsomely rewarded after-the-fact if you bear that burden with dignity.
- digiown 9mo ago> handsomely rewarded after-the-fact The other more important effect is that it neuters any kind of quid pro quo type of corruption, if paired with a big enough stick. It's hard to bribe someone if they will get to live in luxury for the rest of their life anyway, and where discovery of the deal would land them in prison for life.
- ozgung 9mo agoIt’s not irony. It’s by design. Politics is for controlling people. Rules don’t apply to rulers. No one cares about children or anything. Even manipulating the public opinion is outdated. Technology helps them to control. Freedom is an illusion today. We are not free anymore.
- athrowaway3z 9mo agoTechnology might be one half, but the other half is demographics. 40 years ago you'd have more ideals, riots, and young-minded ideas. Nowadays, our societies are old on average (especially the politically powerful). Older people on average are more inclined to pick whatever solution they feel promises a bit more security.
- themafia 9mo ago> 40 years ago you'd have more ideals, riots, and young-minded ideas. The government generated most of those too. As technology became more capable they utilized it more but that doesn't mean they were standing around with their hands in their pockets prior to that. > Nowadays, our societies are old on average Do they have an unfair access to technology? If not then does this actually have any impact? > Older people on average are more inclined to pick whatever solution they feel promises a bit more security. In your experience perhaps. I doubt the reliability of this logic.
- rglover 9mo agoThe gates have already been closed at the pasture's edge. Moo.
- kllrnohj 9mo agoPolitics is simply how a society governs itself. Whether or not a society values the rules being enforce to rulers is itself politics. Dismissing politics like this is how we end up with exactly the problem of rules not applying to rulers. Get involved with politics. Be part of politics. That is how freedom is earned & maintained.
- morgengold 9mo agoI hope this time it really sinks in that law and rules are only for the little man. Time to think about the system from scratch.
- imiric 9mo agoWhat makes you think next time will be different? Revolutions happen all the time. They all inevitably end up in the same place. The problem is not them. The problem is us.
- jMyles 9mo ago> Revolutions happen all the time. They all inevitably end up in the same place. The optimistic take is that this phenomenon is a characteristic of the _emergence_ of an information age (through the agricultural and industrial ages), and will no longer be true of the internet-connected human.
- imiric 9mo agoI appreciate the sentiment, but what makes you think that the internet or technology at all can help with this? Judging by the state of the modern internet and WWW, technology seems to be making things worse, not better. The idealistic view of the 1990s that connecting the world would make us more compassionate, tolerant, and rational, hasn't panned out. I don't see a reason to still cling on to that idea.
- hackable_sand 9mo agoDo you also not wash your laundry? Gross
- DaSHacka 9mo agohttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/non%20sequitur https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/non%20sequitur
- titzer 9mo ago
- 0sdi 9mo agoit has never been about children.
- hkpack 9mo agoThese are literally _the same people_. Musk was hanging out with child sex trafficker and is allowing kids to create porn with grok on X.
- omnimus 9mo agoHe is allowing a lot worse version. Allowing adults to create child porn with grok on X.
- ekianjo 9mo agoFunny how all of you guys focus on Musk but no mention of Reid Hoffman anywhere who was far more involved with Epstein.
- letmeinhere 9mo agoHe sucks too. Not everyone is working backwards from their team sports fandoms.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- hkpack 9mo agoLook, I would really like to mention everyone every time, but it is so tiresome to be honest, all of these guys are awful and all of them are connected if not through epstein, then through some other private club.
- krmboya 9mo agoOnly that you are incorrect that Elon hung out with Epstein. Unless there has been some new evidence
- deaux 9mo agoIndeed, _so_ strange that a lot of attention goes out to the wealthiest individual in the world. Didn't know that Reid Hoffman knowingly released a CP generator on a platform with hundreds of millions of users either.
- Arubis 9mo agoAnd, further, that all the child rape was coordinated, for the most part, in the clear over fucking Gmail. But we have to decrypt everything to protect the kids.
- squidsoup 9mo agoYou're really pulling your punches there.
- schnable 9mo agoIt's useful to point out hypocrisy, but are you suggesting we shouldn't try to protect kids because of Jeffrey Epstein?
- brigandish 9mo agoYou might point out how this will protect children and what the trade offs are. You might also address the point that the same people who keep trying to do these "protect the children" attacks on privacy seem to be one or two steps away from people like Epstein. They didn't need to decrypt anyone's communications because they were the recipients - what did they do about it? It seems many of them continued to "hang out" with him.
- BurningFrog 9mo agoJust like how you learn that all black men are criminals when you see a few of them committing crimes!
- wnevets 9mo ago> that the richest and most powerful members of our society have no problem hanging out with a convicted child sex trafficker. In most cases a lot more than simply "hanging out".
- thinkingemote 9mo agoPeter Mandelson was pushing very hard for digital ID cards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006
- Seattle3503 9mo agoA good implementation of digital ID can do things like verify age while respecting privacy.
- TacticalCoder 9mo ago> It is a great irony that the heavy handed push for "protect da kids" is all happening while we learn, day by day, that the richest and most powerful members of our society have no problem hanging out with a convicted child sex trafficker. They are hypocrites. In the UK there are hundreds of thousands of girls who have been raped between the 1990s and now (17 000 cases of sexual exploitation in the UK in the year 2024 alone). At least one UK politician refer to the girls who've been raped as "white trash" and recently people are shocked because many are implying that these girls, who are typically mass-raped, have been considered to be consenting. It's known for a fact they tried to bury the story once it's been revealed. Turns out the same method is used by these grooming gangs in countless cities nearly all across the UK. It's not just that the richest and most powerful do frequent child sex trafficker: it's that many politicians and judges all over the west are totally fine closing their eyes on the mass raping of girls (some boys are victims of rapes too but it's mostly girls). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grooming_gangs_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grooming_gangs_scandal > Rules for thee, free love for me. Rules for thee, free love for me and for my voters base.
- kneel25 9mo agoI think it's wild you would make that connection for this topic
- ikrenji 9mo agothe "protect da kids" narrative is just a veil to make us give up more privacy and freedom for "security"
- aeternum 9mo agoIt's far easier to control and prosecute communication when an identity is attached.
- watwut 9mo agoTo be fair, the people in that group were literally writing articles about how meetoo went too far and sponsored lawsuits against feminists exposing the stuff. So like, their ideal vision of the world was "every man can treat women and kids this way, they belong to kitchen anyway".
- Havoc 9mo ago> Rules for thee, free love for me. No, only one rule - kill internet pseudo anonymity because it’s dangerous in the same way as large gatherings are. The age circus is just convenient pretext / collateral damage depending on perspective When the Gen Z protests happened and internet was cut…wasn’t to protect innocent from porn
- direwolf20 9mo agoDiscord aren't the good guys here. There are no good guys here.
- kmeisthax 9mo agoThe extremely cynical take: All of this is by design for well-connected billionaire pedophile rings to kill competition from millionaire pedophile rings. The less cynical take: Billionaire pedophilia is just a really dramatic consequence of us building a society that cannot make billionaires accountable for their crimes. There's not much connection between that and the government overreach being done in an attempt to put regular pedophiles to justice. Discord is overcompensating for their extremely lax child safety record. It's not terribly difficult to find servers full of child groomers on Discord that are rarely banned. Same thing with Roblox. The business model of social media presumes that the average user is going to require almost no attention from the moderation team. That's why, for example, removing CDA 230 safe harbor provisions in US law would be so catastrophic to online discourse. The only way any company can justify the risk of publishing Someone Else's Speech is if that risk is literally zero. The same calculus means that when we start requiring social media companies care about children on their platform, they immediately reach for the solutions that are trivially automated: ID and face scans. These companies are shoestring operations for their size, so everything has to "scale" on day one.
- brigandish 9mo ago> The only way any company can justify the risk of publishing Someone Else's Speech is if that risk is literally zero. Or, you know, employing customer service agents. The non-employing of such also allowed them to become billionaires so it seems kind of fair.
- jesterson 9mo agoIf you look at almost all "protect the kids" initiatives, they are targeting mostly to deter free speech or cover other shenanigans. Same people who "want to protect kids" have no problem exploiting kids. General public should be more intelligent and look a bit deeper than a cool title, but I really can't realistically expect that.
- IamLoading 9mo agoi am trying to understand why discord is doing this. Is it because of the charlie kirk killer using discord?