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Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately
- landgenoot 1y agoSo, their next vacation will have a 100k fee?
- notmyjob 1y agoDoesn’t seem fair to the companies that employ these people. It’s obviously a hidden tax on large tech companies like x and Tesla that hire a lot of global talent.
- ProllyInfamous 1y agoDoesn't seem fair to the citizens that live here. We should be taxing companies that have international leverage more. ¢¢ –– Citizen, former Data Center Electrician (still blue collar — I'll eagerly do the work if paid citizen-wages!)
- roncesvalles 1y ago>I'll eagerly do the work if paid citizen-wages What was the wage you were last offered?
- ProllyInfamous 1y agoIBEW - so prevailing wages. Citizenship is a requirement for us blue collar union hacks. So is proper compensation (we're not tech gods but we eat good, too, and clearly aren't disposable==benefits/pension).
- bialpio 1y agoI hope your next potential employer rescinds the job offer 2 days before your start date, maybe that will make it clear to you why some of us think this is unfair.
- ProllyInfamous 1y agoIt's happened — IBEW is thrive/perish — most of us grunts can handle a change in plans/jobs because we've always had to. Welcome to reality, and welcome back home.
- seadan83 1y agoI think a bigger tax on small companies. I worked on one where the co-founder was an h1b. That company grew to employ about a thousand people. It's job creation.. that would not have happened when the company was young with this tax. Meanwhile, big tech is sitting on piles of money. I think startups and scale ups will suffer a lot here.
- pavlov 1y agoNot just vacations, but also business trips. They come up with these rules on a Saturday morning. If you’re a visa holder outside the country and you don’t return to the US by Sunday, you’ll be asked to pay a $100k ransom to re-enter the country where your life and work and children are. Amazing level of contempt for ordinary foreigners who came into the country legally.
- ericmay 1y agoMicrosoft can also just pay the fee right? My understanding is that it’s on the employer to pay, not the individual. Given that these are incredibly skilled folks this would certainly be annoying if you’re Microsoft (like any other tax or fee) but given the value they get from each employee it seems like $100,000 isn’t much.
- phyzix5761 1y agoIncredibly skilled? More like incredibly low paid. H1Bs are mostly used now to save money not to fill high skilled jobs. I know US citizens who have 10+ years of experience as software engineers and have been out of work for a year now. The $100k will try to take that advantage away from employers.
- axiosgunnar 1y ago[dead]
- lmz 1y ago[flagged]
- Smeevy 1y agoWhat does "globalist" mean again? Please explain that to me so I can understand.
- Muromec 1y agoWhy can't they set a salary cutoff for visas at something like 1.5x of median salary in the same industry? That's what EU does. No lottery, no degree requirement even -- if the company wants you to pay above the market, they can, otherwise, nah. This of course creates another problem -- highly paid foreigners price locals out of the housing market, but hej, we can always blame that on refugees, right.
- jjgreen 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- drooopy 1y agoAre you suggesting that people who potentially moved to the US for employment perhaps from the other side of the globe, give everything up immediately and make a 180 and find a new job in another country? Do you have some examples as to how this could work?
- jacquesm 1y agoNo, but it is practical: you can consider your life in the US and what you've built up there as an immigrant pretty much lost or at least hanging by a silken thread that can be capriciously cut at any moment. This all depends on the whims of the dictator. Almost anything is better than that. Remember that the purpose of the Berlin wall was not to keep the West out but to keep the East in. You're at the stage where 'in' and 'out' are being defined and if you have the choice I'd go for 'out' even if that means a temporary - large - setback.
- jama211 1y agoThat will take time and may be good long term advice but is almost useless short term advice - they (and potentially you) should read the room, we’re talking about their immediate urgency. Their comment was pretty insensitive considering that.
- jacquesm 1y agoI've seen my life upturned a couple of times on short notice, I was merely being very practical, it is you that should 'read the room', in the most immediate sense there is fuck-all that will come out of being frustrated and shouting 'injustice', you need to act because the clock is ticking. Get your money out as fast as you can, try to find a way to give someone power of attorney so you don't end up losing everything over an unpaid bill, start thinking of how to go up from where you are right now rather than back to the way things were because there is no 'back'.
- lotsofpulp 1y agohttps://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/trump-mulls-adding-new-100000-fee-h-1b-visas-bloomberg-news-reports-2025-09-19/ https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/trump-mulls-a... Non cancerous link to the source.
- OutOfHere 1y agoThe original link's page loads okay with an ad blocker.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoI am using Wipr on iOS and macOS. I can see the whole Reuters link without a paywall.
- drooopy 1y agoThis is just cruel and inhumane and solves no issue that I can think of.
- UncleMeat 1y agoDon't forget that the "normalize indian hate" guy is still employed by the federal government.
- Rebuff5007 1y agoI'm actually not sure who this is. Can you please name drop?
- fhdkweig 1y agohttps://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/normalised-indian-hate-why-vivek-ramaswamy-was-fired-from-doge-but-marko-elez-wasnt/articleshow/118121642.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/normalised-indi...
- JKCalhoun 1y agoHad to Wikipedia this guy. Wow.
- the_gastropod 1y agoMarko Elez, the 25 year old DOGE staffer.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dboreham 1y agoIt solves the issue of "not looking cruel and inhumane enough" with a bonus of also solving "not tanking the economy enough".
- 1y ago
- xyzelement 1y agoSkimming the articles I don't see the source of the 15 hour urgency. Seems like the fee is on new visas - what's promoting Microsoft to send this notice to existing people?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- rawgabbit 1y agoThe executive order said to bar re-entry unless the $100k was paid. This is the enforcement mechanism. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/restriction-on-entry-of-certain-nonimmigrant-workers/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/rest... Quote: Section 1. Restriction on Entry. (a) Pursuant to sections 212(f) and 215(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1182(f) and 1185(a), the entry into the United States of aliens as nonimmigrants to perform services in a specialty occupation under section 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b), is restricted, except for those aliens whose petitions are accompanied or supplemented by a payment of $100,000 — subject to the exceptions set forth in subsection (c) of this section.
- DashAnimal 1y agoPer the proclamation: "the entry into the United States of aliens as nonimmigrants to perform services in a specialty occupation under section 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b), is restricted, except for those aliens whose petitions are accompanied or supplemented by a payment of $100,000 — subject to the exceptions set forth in subsection (c) of this section. This restriction shall expire, absent extension, 12 months after the effective date of this proclamation, which shall be 12:01 a.m. eastern daylight time on September 21, 2025." So it applies to all H1Bs. Subsection c is limited (but will be interesting to see how it plays out) so I don't bother sharing. Actual proclamation here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/restriction-on-entry-of-certain-nonimmigrant-workers/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/rest...
- jonpurdy 1y agoReading a thread on r/immigration involving multiple immigration lawyers and corporate lawyers※, the Executive Order wording is apparently unclear and leaves CBP agents with discretion (which can obviously cause confusion and not apply the same rules to everyone). Much easier for the companies to recommend/insist on folks fly back before the deadline to avoid issues. ※ - https://www.reddit.com/r/immigration/comments/1nlo8jd/h1b_proclamation_92025_faq_megathread/nf6xswh/ https://www.reddit.com/r/immigration/comments/1nlo8jd/h1b_pr...
- HippoBaro 1y agoIt was nighttime in Singapore when the ruling was announced. My husband and I scrambled to find a flight back. The best we could find, at any price, lands 25mins after the deadline. We are on our way there.
- farseer 1y agoCheck for charter jets, you may be able to jet pool.
- panosfilianos 1y agoBest of luck! Keep us posted.
- 1oooqooq 1y agoi understand playing safe with this administration, but why? h1b requires that one company signed as responsible sponsor on form i129. they are the ones on the line for the payment.
- esalman 1y agoLet me guess, you're not an immigrant?
- 1oooqooq 1y agolived 5yr on L1A. It's a week to leave the country if laid off. But at the same time, most of the penalties/costs fall on the sponsoring company for all cases. ICE black shirts make it more uncertain on enforcement, but there's still laws.
- esalman 1y agoI don't know about this. As a brown student on F1 visa, I even used to walk into Walmart different than I do now.
- Aurornis 1y ago
- Muromec 1y agoThis is not what functioning bureaucracy in a functioning democracy looks like.
- jacquesm 1y agoThe democracy stopped functioning a while ago, this is just the bills being presented.
- add-sub-mul-div 1y agoI don't think this is a bill, just part of a series of proclamations he sprays around to get tied up in courts and then revoked by the next adult in the office. Legislation takes serious time and work and discipline, but it can be lasting in a way this isn't. This is a failed marshmallow test.
- ben_w 1y agoI don't know @jacquesm's intent, but I read "bill" as in "invoice", not as in "proposed new law".
- add-sub-mul-div 1y agoOh, gotcha.
- jacquesm 1y agoYou got it just fine.
- plasticsoprano 1y agoBold of you to assume there will be a “next adult”.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoUnless you mean the electoral college overriding popular vote nonsense, and disproportionate Senate power, which was there since the beginning, I don't know what you mean. The voters apparently wanted more of this per the Nov 2024 elections, when we still had a credible election process.
- jmclnx 1y ago>Some employers have exploited the program to hold down wages, disadvantaging U.S. workers, Change "Some" to "All major employers". I worked at a fortune 500 company in IT and all they hired were H1B employees over the past 15/20 years. The last raise we got that was above inflation and health insurance increases was before 2000. I left 2 years ago and after I left they fired almost everyone in the IT Dept I was in and replaced them with H1B. So I hope this sticks. Plus remember, H1B people should make a fair wage too, all too often their salary is set by their contracting firm and is far far lower then what we got.
- DashAnimal 1y agoIt is absolutely not all major employers. I'm on a visa and have worked for two major tech companies in the US over the last 10 years. I have never been a contractor. I've also compared salaries and know I am doing comparable or better. The majority of my team have always been naturalized citizens.
- roumenguha 1y agoName and shame?
- pclmulqdq 1y agoThe H1B list is all public. You can search through the data on h1bdata.info if you want. There are many people on H1B's whose employers will not have a problem paying a $100k fee, but there are also many other firms that will not pay.
- butpi67 1y ago[dead]
- einszwei 1y agoAs someone who previously worked in US with H1Bs who were making well over half a million, I doubt your statement. I have moved out of the US a few years back though. But regardless, I sincerely hope this policy sticks without any loopholes. This policy will only incentivise companies to move more of their operations to other countries and only keep the bare minimum in US to keep their US business thriving.
- tom89999 1y agoGet your relatives and family out of this shithole and start a new life somewhere else. Why paying taxes for fat crooks? Why working your ass off for major companiel that dont pay taxes? I more and more understand people leaving their home country.
- stronglikedan 1y ago[flagged]
- Muromec 1y agoLife quality wise West Europe is still the best place on this planet.
- decimalenough 1y agoRemember, Australia is a hellhole full of things that will kill you. Ignore all rumors about a great climate, laid back lifestyle, plenty of jobs, solid work life balance, low crime, a good social safety net, and that you're never actually going to see a crocodile/scorpion/drop bear/inland taipan in any major city. (The one about insane house prices is, alas, true.)
- namblooc 1y agoAustralia, although in name similar to Austria, is not located inside of Europe.
- Detrytus 1y agoI think you meant to say Eastern Europe. Western countries such as France, Sweden or Germany went through quick enshittification process thanks to uncontrolled immigration.
- YinglingHeavy 1y agoI'm convinced that the ills of America are pronounced, moreso than any other developed Nation, to prevent further brain drain from other nations to the US (with, among other things, its privileged reserve currency).
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- brainless 1y agoThis is terrible lack of planning. I understand the need for the US to be strict about people entering the country. They have a right to choose but this is so mismanaged. There are so many active H-1B visa holders, now everyone is just anxious. The rules can start for new visa applications. For existing holders, there should be a time period where people can figure out if the employer is even able to pay. If this stays in effect for existing visa holders and the employers cannot pay in time or wants to change the contract, the individuals and their families are stuck. Plus, employees probably lose their job if employer cannot pay the fees.
- foogazi 1y ago> This is terrible lack of planning. POSIWID This is what the system wants
- seadan83 1y agoTACO tuesday?
- mrbombastic 1y agoThe strength of a theory lies in its predictive capacity. I used to think people who said “the cruelty is the point” were hyperbolic, but the predictive capacity of that theory is doing pretty well these days.
- jacquesm 1y agoI don't think it is a terrible lack of planning. I think it is exactly what they intended to achieve.
- cozzyd 1y agoGuam is going to see an influx of people too far away to get to conus
- decimalenough 1y agoGuam and other US territories in the Pacific like American Samoa have their own immigration systems that are not identical to the mainland. I'm not sure how this intersects with H-1B validity, but it would be an expensive gamble to find out.
- cozzyd 1y agoThen I guess Hawaii is the play...
- orwin 1y agoLike I said when they put workers in chains two weeks ago, shitting on foreign workers and all the cheerleaders here and probably on less liberal outlets are presenting an image of the US individualist culture that I now have to acknowledge. Having to say to 'UPR' and other anti-atlantist militants 'you were absolutely right' was difficult I will admit.
- confidantlake 1y ago> 'UPR' and other anti-atlantist militants. Never heard of either of these 2 terms. What are these?
- roryirvine 1y agoUPR is a fringe far-right party in France - anti-EU, anti-NATO, pro-Russia conspiracy theorists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Republican_Union_(2007) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Republican_Union_(2007... Anti-atlantist might also be read as Anti-Atlanticist or Anti-Western. Probably some form of pro-Russia or pro-China sentiment in this context.
- jmpman 1y agoIf the $100k fee was then designated for STEM scholarships for underserved students, this policy would be continued even by the democrats. If the justification of H1B is that the US does not produce enough engineers, let’s financially encourage the domestic supply.
- megablast 1y agoThis is not how funding works.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y agoMany of the benefits are degraded or destroyed when the game is shifted immediately and drastically. People fear the game may experience more seismic shifts, so they don't take chances or make major investments. Even if you like this policy as an end goal, the implementation is pants on head stupid.
- gdulli 1y agoIt's true they may agree in principle that the program needs reform. But culture war isn't policy. The actual policy implementation would look very different when motivated by good faith vs. hating brown people.
- jmpman 1y agoThis policy applies to all H1B, not just India and China. Although Trump should have doubled the fee for India until they stop buying Russian oil.
- foogazi 1y agoDidn’t H1B fees already pay for training ?
- Smeevy 1y agoYeah. It would go to fund education. Sure. Funding education is totally on brand for modern conservatives.
- treetalker 1y agoGOP seems to prefer choosing to defect in the prisoner's dilemma.
- omarqureshi 1y agoThis isn't a big deal for the larger tech companies other than a short term pain in the ass. This is a large net negative for 3 sectors that I can currently think of: - American (software) tech workers - Healthcare - Research / Postgrad Medicine and Research are fairly self explanatory, however, why the American software tech worker? Let's say you're Microsoft, you have large offices all over the world - instead of hiring in the US and making those departments in US offices bigger, you're going to instead hire in probably the following places: - UK - Australia - South Asia It means less focus in the US which eventually will just become sales and marketing only with perhaps some smaller department sized tech jobs. Another great Trump strategy that appears to be helping the poor whites but actually shafts them.
- Aurornis 1y ago> This isn't a big deal for the larger tech companies other than a short term pain in the ass. A sudden $100,000 per year increase on every H1B salary is a big deal.
- omarqureshi 1y ago$0 is smaller than $100,000
- omarqureshi 1y agoEven better than this actually is a one time relocation cost, you retain the domain knowledge of the employee and send someone elsewhere where they can keep working.
- jacquesm 1y agoI think the focus should be first and foremost on the damage to personal relationships rather than their ability to keep working, even if that will become more important soon after. You can't just drop crap like this on people without warning, this whole governing by proclamation is idiotic.
- wrp 1y ago[flagged]
- kpybala 1y ago[flagged]
- penguin_booze 1y agoBut remember: he was elected; by the people; for a second time. Let that all sink in.
- ponector 1y agoMajority will choose dumb old convict instead of being ruled by woman.
- wussboy 1y agoIt does make one wonder why the democrats insist on putting women and racial minorities forward as presidential candidates. Yes, it shouldn’t matter but it apparently really does and was that the hill we wanted to die on? Handing the presidency to Trump?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- lotsoweiners 1y agoDemocrats have learned that 2 of last 3 elections. Based on what I’ve read here and Reddit I am not convinced the lesson has stuck.
- amelius 1y agoIn a true democracy the minority is not ignored, especially if it counts for like 49% of the population. Otherwise it's just a dictatorship of the majority, which it is now.
- yibg 1y agoNot sure about dumbest, but almost definitely the most cruel. (or at least least worried about putting on a facade of caring).
- kpybala 1y ago[flagged]
- Surac 1y agoSo USA demands its slaves to stay inside?
- seadan83 1y agoIt's worse than that. Demanding that the job creators and company growers be taxed or stay out. If a team is half H1Bs, it is not because there were Americans waiting for those jobs. These are irreplaceable people (if they could be replaced to not deal with H1B nightmares, companies would readily do so). So, the big irony is these people are job creators.
- Havoc 1y agoThis has very strong "cruelty is the point" vibes. There are a fair bit of international flights in the 10-12 hour range. Add some time to pack, get to airport, baggage check, get through security & how the flight times line up and this seems calculated in a way that is precisely not doable. Never mind people not perpetually online and only seeing this a couple hours later Meanwhile there is to my knowledge no reason why this couldn't have been 48 hours. Still fast, but doable for anyone suitably determined.
- cyanydeez 1y agoI smell "grift is the point" vibes.
- jacquesm 1y agoYes, no way that any of this isn't finely calibrated to cause maximum misery. I was on the wrong side of the border when 9/11 happened, for months a whole chunk of my life was in limbo. Thanks to giving my bookkeeper emergency power of attorney in just such an eventuality we managed to squeak through but if not for that bit of foresight I'm not sure if we would have.
- boothby 1y agoWild. I flew domestically about a week after 9/11 and forgot that I had my leatherman in my pocket until I got to security... and the xray operator didn't see it in my backpack.
- cantor_S_drug 1y agoTrump will backtrack. He will be bribed if not convinced by rational arguments just like this https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/trumps-unusual-nvidia-deal-raises-new-corporate-national-security-risks-2025-08-12/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/trumps-unusual-nvid...
- Smeevy 1y agoRational arguments? You're relying on a cognitively impaired, narcissistic criminal to come to his senses? Even if he does, there is damage here that will not be undone. We need to stop treating this monster like a wayward child.
- mrmansano 1y agoAnecdotally, although I'm sure it's happening to more people. I'm Brazilian, I work in the US on H1-B. I'm on vacations in Brazil with my wife and kids, one in school age. I also came to renew my visa stamp, as I had my extension approved not long ago. My visa is valid from September 21st, so, same day as this proclamation takes effect. And I can't go back before that because my visa is not valid. My flight was scheduled for tomorrow, and I would land in US by Sep 22nd. Of course, I rescheduled that to not lose my ticket. I left food in the freezer, car in the garage, and my son is missing classes. And all my family's stuff in the house. Now, I have no idea what will happen, I can't go in to get my things. At least the company is giving support, and I couldn't be more thankful. But the thing that makes me sadder is the blatant racism towards my Indian friends, reddit and x was swarmed by an army of people that was enabled to call them... whatever they want... It's a good time to be offline now. The H1-B program has its problems, and I understand the whole frustration with the job market, but this is not they way to solve anything.
- yash1th 1y agoi did not know until today there is this much anti-immigrant and especially anti-indian sentiment in tech. idk, it was very eye opening and very sad to read those. i am telling myself that people who were posting those things are small in numbers.
- yibg 1y agoIt's not surprising really. There needs to be an enemy group, one that some portion of the supporting population has some grievance against. First it's hispanics (illegal immigrants taking your jobs), then trans (men in womens washrooms), then Indians (taking your tech jobs), then it'll be some other group.
- rich_sasha 1y agoUK around Brexit time thought kind of similar: let's keep the "riffraff" immigrants out by applying higher criteria. The narrative also changed this way: we don't want immigrants in general, but you, with your highly paid PhD-requiring job, you can go in, on a 2 year rolling basis. Then everyone's a winner, except for unwanted, unskilled labour. But a lot of skilled labour left anyway. Partly because the general atmosphere got unpleasant. But also highly paid people have spouses, children, parents and other relatives. Once you are told you barely cleared (very high) criteria, you can be pretty sure your retired parents won't, if ever you need them to move in with you. So the effect may well be that the kind of people whose productivity and tax bracket makes a 100k fee justifiable simply choose to go elsewhere. Especially when the administration makes their contempt for any rights they have so obvious.
- gdulli 1y agoIt should be the most obvious thing in the world that whether you take a fundamentally welcoming and positive mindset towards people vs. a negative and unwelcoming mindset, the effects of either will propagate and magnify themselves over time. But when you're insecure the feelings you get from the latter are more comforting in the short term.
- ajross 1y agoThe principle is better stated as "don't be an asshole". HN's insistence on decorum is just really poorly suited to the moment.
- darth_avocado 1y agoI can assure you the decorum isn’t exactly being maintained and downvotes don’t exactly do much when there’s a consensus that a certain thing is okay to do.
- s5300 1y ago[dead]
- 1y ago
- ffsm8 1y agoI'm not American, but with how many software engineers having gotten laid off over the last 4 years, reducing foreign workers competing for the same positions should be a given from the perspective of governing a nation. I'm surprised how divisive such a decision seems to be considering our current reality of a contracting industry (employment wise)
- foogazi 1y ago> but with how many software engineers having gotten laid off over the last 4 years And how many times have we heard that you can’t time the market Can you call the bottom ?
- ffsm8 1y agoLet's be real here, the metric the foreign workers are mainly competing on is price. The average tech immigrant is not particularly more bright then the average native dev, and the truly outstanding ones can still be given entrance just my paying 100k - which should be entirely neglectable for world class talent.
- foogazi 1y ago> and the truly outstanding ones can still be given entrance just my paying 100k The same song, a tariff on talent
- ponector 1y agoWhy do you think they would not close the position in USA if immigrants are not an option anymore? If Indian developer cannot obtain a visa in Microsoft they will simply recruit the same person to the office in India.
- darth_avocado 1y agoThis is anecdote, but majority of the folks that Microsoft has on H1B from India are people who were hired in India in the first place and were allowed to move over because it was “worth it”. Microsoft specifically will be fine with Indian H1Bs even if they don’t want to pay $100k.
- thisisit 1y agoThis is such bad policy making. Its like using a cannon to kill a mosquito. And for a party which idolizes the founding fathers these people seem to have forgotten the lesson from Benjamin Franklin. They went from letting 100 criminals go than make 1 person suffer to punishing 100 criminals to full extent of the law and then justify the action if 1 innocent is presented. End justify the means. And for anyone who is supporting this - Sorry to burst your bubble but just like everything done by this admin so far it is not going to tide over the American job problem. First, Secretary of Homeland Security has a discretion. It means companies can graft/lobby him to get exception. Maybe shops like Infosys might not get one but Tesla can get one under the garb of supporting American manufacturing. Second, companies are going to find ways to get that exception. Consulting shops can always open a subsidiary with all American front and lobby for exception. Third, consulting shops can always bill their customers - maybe partial amounts - that is American companies. Or they can encourage to offshore even more. "You can now save $X + 100k if you offshore". So and so forth. You need a thoughtful policy not a blunt instrument like this.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y agoDid you mean "punishing 100 innocents to full extent of the law and then justify the action if 1 criminal is presented?"
- thisisit 1y agoI meant what I wrote. There is no denying H1B has issues and people are angry. But it has its uses like the doctors or specific skillsets. It is like punishing 100 guilty while persecuting 1 innocent. That is not what a proper law is supposed to do but this administration and its supporters lack empathy.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 1y agoSo you meant: The punishment of 100 criminals is cited as a justification for wrongfully prosecuting an innocent individual. ChatGpt can help with the language.
- duped 1y ago[flagged]
- xyzelement 1y agoI am a Republican and an immigrant and there are millions of others. So perhaps it is more complicated than that.
- mperham 1y ago[flagged]
- pinkmuffinere 1y agoSurely the poster is allowed to be Republican and an immigrant? They didn't even say they voted for Trump. Eg, if they're fiscally conservative and strongly anti-abortion, they may find that they are best aligned with the Republican party, despite being an immigrant.
- wussboy 1y ago[flagged]
- pinkmuffinere 1y agoI think I agree with your political views, and that makes me sad. It would be easier to believe in "my" party if this sort of stupidity wasn't so blatant.
- Tostino 1y ago[flagged]
- Scoundreller 1y ago[flagged]
- malkia 1y agoThere are a lot of bad angles to this, here is another one: What happens to people's social security they've build for the years they've been on H1B? (Or J1, etc. before that)? It's technically gone...
- yibg 1y agoNot an expert but I think citizens of most countries still get benefits post retirement if they've crossed the 40 point / 10 year threshold, even if they're not in the US. At least for now, who knows if that'll change down the road.
- darth_avocado 1y agoThis is correct. You’d get your social security if you worked for 10 years (you need 40 credits but can only earn 4 max per year, 1 credit for every $1810 of social security taxes you paid). I think most visa workers who worked 10 years on H1B will meet this criteria
- malkia 1y agoThank you both for the answers. Some further googling led me to "totalization agreements" and then it's per country. It looks like India (for example) may not have such an agreement, but say Austriallia has it. That to be said, it's all news to me, so might be completely wrong here
- irthomasthomas 1y agoWhy is this hn post not visible?
- acqbu 1y agoLikely because it's too political
- slater 1y agoIt is?
- irthomasthomas 1y agoIt's back now but it did vanish for a while.
- dotnet00 1y agoMaybe the mods temporarily hide a thread to catch up on moderation if it's spiraling too quickly to manage.
- dang 1y agoIt was never not visible, but it did set off the flamewar detector, which downweighted it off the front page. We eventually turned that penalty off. Btw, I've changed the HN title to reflect the article's title now. Submitted title was "Visa holders on vacation have 15 hours to return to US or pay $100k fee". I don't know if the article said that when you submitted it (news outlets sometimes update article titles as more information emerges), or if you rewrote the title, but if it was the latter, please don't do that—it's against HN's guidelines. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize."
- acqbu 1y agoPresident Donald Trump’s new $100,000 fee for high-skill visa holders only applies to new applicants — not current visa holders who may be on travel outside of the U.S. — according to a U.S. official granted anonymity to speak about the policy. Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/09/20/donald-trump-h1b-visas-overhaul-00574345 https://www.politico.com/news/2025/09/20/donald-trump-h1b-vi...
- dang 1y agoRelated ongoing threads: US Gov acknowledges that 100K fee does not apply to existing H-1B visas holders [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45318060 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45318060 - Sept 2025 (43 comments) Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45314906 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45314906 - Sept 2025 (108 comments) New H-1B visa fee will not apply to existing holders, official says - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45316226 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45316226 - Sept 2025 (3 comments) Also recent and related: Trump to impose $100k fee for H-1B worker visas, White House says - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45305845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45305845 - Sept 2025 (1675 comments) The H-1B Visa Program and Its Impact on the U.S. Economy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45309740 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45309740 - Sept 2025 (51 comments)
- glass1122 1y ago[dead]
- srameshc 1y agoI can just feel for someone who travelled back home for a family emergency and hope they have the means and courage to leave the family and come back.
- jgilias 1y agoI hope they have the courage to stay with their family, and the means to make it in their home country where I’d hope they’re not actively hated on.
- srameshc 1y agoThat would be the best case and unless somoone seeking refuge, I am sure they aren't hated in their country but who know. Sometimes it takes a little more time to relocate as people build their lives in a different country over time.
- tempodox 1y agohttps://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/restriction-on-entry-of-certain-nonimmigrant-workers/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/rest... : > … the effective date of this proclamation, which shall be 12:01 a.m. eastern daylight time on September 21, 2025. That doesn’t leave much time. I would have expected that current visa holders wouldn’t fall under this rule. Shouldn’t it be a legal standard not to apply new rules retroactively?
- softwaredoug 1y agoThis is a “better safe than sorry” measure by these companies. I think it’s not 100% clear on existing H1Bs.
- yibg 1y agoNo one is going take a chance on that if they don't have to. I'm expecting chaos at the ports of entry tomorrow unless there is some clarification / guidance provided today by the white house.
- jjav 1y ago> legal standard There are no legal standards anymore, when everything is at the whim of one single person.
- fabianholzer 1y ago> Shouldn’t it be a legal standard not to apply new rules retroactively? It should. But the in the American empire you better pray they don't alter the deal any further.
- dhfbshfbu4u3 1y agoBet all those tech lords are happy they went to the White House to stroke big Don and tell him how smart he is.
- vachina 1y agoYou don’t see Accenture, Wipro, or Infosys on the table. The tech lords will be fine.
- reactordev 1y ago15 hours when they know the quickest flights back are 16+ hours. Criminal.
- jmyeet 1y agoI guess it's safe to say there won't need to be an H1B lottery next year. I do think we need a visa category for people who have completed an education in the US. Yes, there's OPT for certain fields for F1 visa holders but it's not enough. But all that's a part of broader immigration reform that simply won't happen, particularly in this political climate. As horrible as this all is for those affected, particularly for people who have been waiting patiently in line for 10-20 years, it's also true that: 1. There absolutely is H1B visa abuse, specifically by the bodyshops like Infosys and Tata; 2. H1Bs are used to suppress wages for the entire workforce; and 3. In an era of permanent layoffs and high unemployment in the tech sector, preference should absolutely be given to existing US permanent residents and citizens. That's the declared intent of the H1B program but the reality hasn't really worked that way. The employers have brought this on themselves and ordinary people will suffer because of it. I do think that if you layoff more than 2% of your staff in any given year, you should be unable to sponsor any visa for a period of 2+ years.
- JuniperMesos 1y ago> I do think we need a visa category for people who have completed an education in the US. Yes, there's OPT for certain fields for F1 visa holders but it's not enough. There's already enough of a problem of foreigners enrolling in low-quality or even basically-fraudulent American higher education programs, specifically because their goal is to do whatever they can to get legal residency in the United States rather than gain an education only available in the US or contribute to American intellectual life. Such a visa category would exacerbate this problem.
- mystraline 1y agoI'm going to keep banging on this website, of definitions of fascism. And also, for the time being, is also hanging in short form at the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause Labor Power is Suppressed Rampant Cronyism and Corruption These are all elements of fascism, and is directly on display. We are living in a country being invaded by fascists from within the republican party. And to my knowledge, no fascist government willingly cedes power. All have required extreme violence (aka war) to oust them. And most also have done so with Communist and Socialist allies (see Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, et merde). In a way, it might be safer for the H1B's abroad to stay away. Wish I had an exit plan as well.
- manco 1y ago> Labor Power is Suppressed Isn't this making labor more powerful since it's restricting competition from overseas?
- mystraline 1y ago'15 hours to return or you're fucked' is not the kind of policy to reform H1B status. Disassociating the employee with special skills from the sponsoring company would do a load better. Right now, the current H1B sponsorship creates a form of indentured servitude, which is horrific. Now, sure, H1B should be gated similarly to Green Card status, as in there is a need for people of those skills. Right now, H1B serves as a way to depress wages for the rest of us. If anything, H1B should be significantly higher to show "these skills are highly in need", but instead, average H1B wages are 100k/yr. Reforms are completely needed. But slapping a 17 hour 'show up or you'll be sorry' is NOT it.
- prime_ursid 1y ago“Labor power” in this context refers to unions, collective bargaining, and so on. The NLRB has been de facto shut down by this administration.
- cs_throwaway 1y agoI think a lot of people arguing about the H1B visa are talking past each other. - There is no doubt a large volume of abuse by tech consulting companies. It's likely even worse than it looks, because the H1Bs in the U.S. are to support even larger teams offshore. I don't understand why we can't just blacklist these companies. - Some of medium-skill hires, e.g., did a 2 year MS degree from random university in the U.S., are also a bit sus, in my opinion. - I'll bet several of Zuck's recent $10M Superintelligence Team hires were at least briefly on an H1B before getting their EB-1A Green Cards. - Same for a lot of faculty in computer science -- you can get an EB-1B Green Card quickly, but you have to spend some time on an H1B. You cannot convert directly from a student visa. The O-1 exists, but is not on most people's radars in academia. I think likely because the legal fees are prohibitively expensive. (I have heard $40K+)
- surfingdino 1y ago> - There is no doubt a large volume of abuse by tech consulting companies. It's likely even worse than it looks, because the H1Bs in the U.S. are to support even larger teams offshore. I don't understand why we can't just blacklist these companies. I wish we could ban offshore IT consultancies dumping "talent". Unfortunately politicians will not support such ban, because those consultancies help corporate donors keep the wages down. If the government banned suppliers who use offshore consultancies from bidding for government contracts those outfits would disappear overnight.
- thisisit 1y agoTo add lot of people don't seem to have read the full announcement. It says Secretary of Homeland Security can grant exception. That means companies like Tesla are more likely to get a pass - because manufacturing jobs and what not. Also, HN is hyper focused on tech consulting. H1Bs are used by doctors too especially in rural America. Doctors apply for J1 waiver and then get H1B for work. From what I have heard some places the only available doctor is an immigrant on H1B. This is going to devastate medical teams.
- jacquesm 1y agoI'm pretty happy that my continued existence isn't subject to selective enforcement by some US bureaucrat. After all, given the last six months that sounds like a pretty stress inducing thing to have to be subjected to. They seem to err on the side of maximum harm, rather than caution.
- softwaredoug 1y agoRelevant to immigration bans, this clause is what seems to give the president very broad authority on immigration (see also Muslim ban). > Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Congress shouldn’t be writing this sort of broad language into its laws. Congress has delegated a ton of power to the executive and now Trump is going to pressure test it. The current Supreme Court will decide this clause is wide enough to drive an iceberg through. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182?utm_source=ch...
- deadbabe 1y agoA reminder that just because we may feel sorry for these H1B people caught up in this administration’s shenanigans, it does not mean we have to be overly supportive of the H1B program in general. If it ends, it ends. There’s plenty of American CS graduates desperate for jobs here at home too. Tired of hearing stories about people who have been unable to land any kind of CS job due to low hiring and AI making them irrelevant. We need to support these people and H1B programs absolutely don’t help. I hope the foreigners will understand, and not take it too personally. edit: but also, if you’re an H1B who gamed the system through consulting agencies to beat the lottery, screw you. Your fraud has taken opportunities from both, Americans and legit H1B applicants.
- ztwye 1y agoMight as well kick every single foreigner out of this country to let Americans find jobs. Of course us foreigners take it personally... Are you serious? How is this understandable?
- deadbabe 1y agoHow should the American workers who constantly get passed over in favor for H1Bs take it? Americans got so obsessed with being a “nation of immigrants” they elevated actual immigrants to higher status than American citizens themselves.
- ztwye 1y agoI don't get the higher status part. Why would big tech companies, for example, be more favorable to immigrants than americans? There are a lot of companies that will reject you simply because you are not american/greencard holder. Obviously personal opinion but I don't think gutting H1B will lead to more jobs for americans or just more jobs in general. I can't predict the side effects, but I doubt the tech industry is going to stay the same
- deadbabe 1y agoIf H1Bs disappearing doesn’t result in more jobs then there was never any point in hiring H1Bs in the first place. Just trimming the fat.
- ivraatiems 1y agoThese new restrictions are uniquely capricious and gleefully harmful to people, but they are really only an extension of behaviors that have gone on for some time. I'd like to share a related story from the previous Trump administration: My roommate in 2018 was an Indian here on an H1-B. He was working for a large consulting firm. (You've heard of it.) I don't recall his title but it was sort of an SRE/infrastructure position. He was a relatively conservative guy himself, in terms of his views, and a huge fan of America. He delighted in being here. He bought a brand new Mustang because it was the iconic American car. We weren't particularly close friends, but we got along okay. In the spring of 2018, he went back to India for the first time in several years, for about a month. His return flight date came and went and I didn't hear from him until the next day: He was back in India. He'd landed in Chicago, and CBP had pulled him aside. They said his documents were flawed and he was to be deported. They said he had lied about where he was moving for his job. When he pointed out that he hadn't, they said, well, your employer didn't tell us everything they were supposed to when you moved. He asked to see documents he had with him, or call his managers. They said no. He asked for time to go online and get his employment details. They said no. The only options he were given was: 1) Admit he'd lied, and be deported but not banned from the US, or, 2) deny he'd lied, and be deported and banned for five years. Indignant, he refused to "admit" to anything. He was deported. His entire life in the US was summarily destroyed. I spent a great deal of time helping him get his possessions either sold or shipped to him, and on the phone, I had to explain to him that he likely hadn't done anything wrong - it wasn't his fault. This was how our system had been set up to work. About two years later, a judge concluded that there had not, in fact, been any issues with his employer or him that were material. The deportation was ruled to have been illegitimate. But by that point, he'd been back in India for years, and it was now COVID. He's probably never coming back to the US. We lost our chance to have him, because a couple of individual CBP agents in Chicago made a bad call one day in 2018 and wouldn't take no for an answer. Even if you believe in controlling and limiting immigration, even if you think that we should only bring the best and brightest and then only in limited numbers, even if you think everyone who crosses the border illegally is a criminal, there is nothing just in what happened in this case. If you are such a person, and you think the people in power are on your side, I urge you to look at what they're actually doing over what they say they're doing. There's no justice in what happened in this case; if even legal immigrants have such limited due process and can have their lives so utterly destroyed, what rights do any of us imagine we have?
- sega_sai 1y agoI am so glad I left the States. It is horrible to live in a country where on a whim of a deranged leader your whole life can be upended. No country is perfect, but the way US now behaves towards people on visas is not tolerable. (And it was similar situation during COVID)
- yfw 1y agoWhat country isnt descending into authoritarianism these days?
- onlyrealcuzzo 1y agoMost of Europe, Central and South America, Canada, Australia, Japan, India, South Korea - the majority of the world that could not already be described as authoritarian
- JuniperMesos 1y agoPeople describe all of these countries as authoritarian for various reasons. Multiple Indian immigrants I have worked with in the US have expressed displeasure at authoritarianism in India today, which I find difficult to distinguish from just not liking Modi.
- crop_rotation 1y agoI mean authoritarianism in India is far worse than what Trump can do at his worst, so their displeasure is not unwarranted.
- rammer 1y agoAbsolute bollocks, do you actually know anything about India and what's happening in the last 10 years. Easy being a keyboard warrior when you don't have to provide any justification.
- Scoundreller 1y agoOh great, some of our vendors work in USA on H1bs and when they need to send someone on-site to us (in Canada), they send the Canadian. I guess we'll be seeing someone new and unfamiliar... (edit: the vendor workers might be in USA on TN status and might be okay for now, I haven't asked)
- yibg 1y agoYea that's an interesting dimension too. If this holds as is, then business travel for H1B holders is dead.
- eloisant 1y agoNo business travel is one thing, no vacation to see your family in your home country is something else entirely. I guess they really do want foreigners to move out of the US.
- burnt-resistor 1y agoAny surprise change should be illegal, but that doesn't matter when the elected monarch decrees it.
- nis0s 1y agoA lot of aggrieved comments blaming US leadership, but nary a word about the leadership of countries which create conditions that people have to emigrate from. Populations of most countries offshore the blame for the lack of economic opportunity or social conditions where they live. I don’t blame the common folk, it’s the leaders and elite of such places who are responsible for their countries relative success or failure.
- verbify 1y agoSome people just emigrate without lack of economic opportunity or social conditions. I have a German friend living in Japan because he's curious about Japan (he previously lived in the UK).
- dragontamer 1y ago> but nary a word about the leadership of countries which create conditions that people have to emigrate from. Because we in the US largely care about making our country better. And pulling the best and brightest out of other countries has historically been considered a good deal for us or even an explicit 'Brain Drain the Soviets' strategy. This admin and the people in charge today have forgotten about this and now we are left with our multi decade system getting wrecked.
- nis0s 1y agoExcept the U.S. right now is nothing like what the USSR was under the Soviets, at least not for people who are in the U.S. via proper and lawful immigration protocols. The bent towards Christian nationalism may covert the US into an unviable USSR-like environment for a majority of its population, including whites and Christians. But I don’t think that scenario is likely given the range of leadership available to the U.S. I guess it depends on how the next two years unfold, maybe I’ll stand corrected. Regarding brain drains, why is it so bad if the best and most productive of another country stay in their home states, or go else where? The fact is that there are a lot of nations which experience relatively low rates of immigration, but are at the forefront of science and tech, such as China or Japan or Singapore. Maybe brain drains are not the main concern here, if anything the idea is a distraction.
- praveen9920 1y agoI just saw that some people on 4chan are organizing a mass booking of high-traffic route flights from India to stop some Indians from coming back. It feels like the visa process is politically weaponised for propagating racism.
- Etheryte 1y agoJudging by Google Flights, the tickets start from five hundred or so each, so I don't really see anyone putting a real dent in this. Unless it's actually Elon Musk who could literally book all the flights full, should he so desire.
- GenerWork 1y agoThat's not how it works. The idea is that the sites will hold your spot for X minutes before they release the seat, so what they're doing is booking the flight, choosing seats (or not), getting to the payment page, and sitting there while the timer counts down. I believe that once it gets to 5 minutes or so there's an alert that asks if you're still there, and if you say yes, they'll either reset the timer or add some additional time on.
- hello_moto 1y agoStill stoking the class divide war since …
- cm2187 1y agoIn the french news (https://www.lefigaro.fr/international/les-frais-du-visa-a-100-000-dollars-imposes-par-trump-uniquement-pour-les-nouvelles-demandes-20250920 https://www.lefigaro.fr/international/les-frais-du-visa-a-10...) it seems the white house clarified it is only for new visa and one time only. [edit] also: https://www.theweek.in/wire-updates/international/2025/09/21/fgn29-us-h1b-ld-white-house.html https://www.theweek.in/wire-updates/international/2025/09/21...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- hvb2 1y agoThat's not how laws and executive orders work? The text of the order matters, not some opinion of some admin official That's why, typically, this would have been reviewed and planned.
- cm2187 1y agoI am not trying to defend it, but I understand the issue was that the order was unclear.
- hvb2 1y agoAll I'm saying is that the text of the order matters, nothing else. I would love to be wrong on that though...
- nrmitchi 1y agoThat's the thing; the order was not unclear. It very clear said what it said. The general public's opinion that it was grossly unjustified and most likely going to be rolled back does not change how clear the initial order was. The fact that virtually every immigration attorney and firm was on the same page about it goes to show how clear it actually was.
- nobodyandproud 1y agoAs much as I think Trump and crew is dangerous to the nation, I’m not hating this and I believe it’s long overdue. I was about to wistfully wish Biden or Obama pushed for this, but it’s clear they were too deep in the tech industry’s pockets. Not sure how this administration intends on addressing the off-shore response though.
- Hizonner 1y agoScaling back, seriously modifying, or eliminating the H1B program is a perhaps reasonable policy action. Giving people 15 hours of notice is incompetent and a dick move.
- nobodyandproud 1y agoHow about 35 years of preparation? Tech businesses had 35 years to lobby and help fix this. Instead, the businesses abused and lobbied to keep H1B easy to abuse. Huge dick moves. Plural. The rank and file contractors suffer and they don’t deserve the chaos, but I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy for the hiring bodies and employers (and the abusive hiring managers).
- mlsu 1y agoThe argument is “well why don’t they come legally” … “if they just followed the law” … And this is what they are doing to those people, who followed all the rules, did everything right. That tells you everything you need to know about the intentions of this admin.
- ecocentrik 1y agoThey ran out of illegal immigrants with prior criminal records almost immediately and their political strategy depends on the generation of new "others" to demonize. MAGA basically hates everyone, including themselves, so they will keep expanding their targets.
- w10-1 1y agoRegardless of the merits of such visas, they were legal, and companies now depend on them. Business uncertainty is off the charts when any administration can change existing policy at a whim and on short notice, for any kind of sunk costs. The whim makes it uncertain, the short notice makes it unmanageable, and the sunk-cost makes it unavoidable. It's this uncertainty that fuels government corruption, by creating an undifferentiated need to make nice and comply. At each step, it will be cheaper for companies to join than to resist, and companies that resist will get oversized responses as a warning to others. That makes joining corruption an economic necessity. This is how Putin organized and subjugated Russian oligarchs and the elites.
- GoldenMonkey 1y agoWe all know this was a way for tech companies to keep wages down and replace local labor with cheaper labor. Now instead of 500 applications for 1 interview. Maybe, jobs vs labor will return to a normal balance.
- ck2 1y agomost H1-B per corporation: https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/09867/3/ https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/09867/3/
- arn7av 1y agoUpdate from USCIS: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/H1B_Proc_Memo_FINAL.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/H1B... "Clarification" from Press Secretary: https://x.com/PressSec/status/1969495900478488745 https://x.com/PressSec/status/1969495900478488745 1.) This is NOT an annual fee. It’s a one-time fee that applies only to the petition. 2.) Those who already hold H-1B visas and are currently outside of the country right now will NOT be charged $100,000 to re-enter. H-1B visa holders can leave and re-enter the country to the same extent as they normally would; whatever ability they have to do that is not impacted by yesterday’s proclamation. 3.) This applies only to new visas, not renewals, and not current visa holders. It will first apply in the next upcoming lottery cycle.
- mgraczyk 1y agoThe problem here is that the proclamation says otherwise. It doesn't include any exception for current holders Trump has the legal authority to block anyone from entering for essentially any reason (see Trump v Hawaii) So it doesn't matter much what the white house says today. They are free to change their minds tomorrow. That's part of the strategy, if immigrants are afraid they will be arbitrarily extorted at the border, then only the ones whose employers have bribed Trump will even bother applying
- Tika2234 1y ago[dead]
- nrmitchi 1y agoA "White House Official" may be saying this now, but it is not what was in the EO that was actually signed. There were no exclusions for current holders, and the start date was explicitly September 21, 2025 (a date that does apply to the "next lottery"). They are more than welcome to roll back this asinine decision, but pretending that everyone else is just mis-interpreting is gaslighting. Either way, until there is an official, in-writting announcement that can be depended on, no one should be taking the advice of an unnamed White House source. In any situation, your best bet is to follow the direction and guidance of your own attorney.
- gigatexal 1y agoThis effectively makes off shoring cheaper no? Just bypass the H1B thing altogether and hire folks in India, or Mexico, or Canada. It gets harder and harder to have skin pigment, speak another language, or god forbid want to come to the USA under this insane administration.
- ExoticPearTree 1y agoIf I'm not mistaken, the next step for Trump is to ban American companies to hire Indian workers in India (probably even the ones living around the world too) because India keeps buying Russian oil and starts to get friendly with China. It is a very clear case of "my way or the highway".
- metalman 1y agoit's hard to imagine Chinese government officials giggling, because the rare smiles they make look like they were designed and approved in commitee meetings on a case by case basis, but this ongoing assult on rational conduct must be messing them up, perhaps this will trigger a new round of purges as there ability to keep a strait face is tested in these unexpected and unprecidented ways
- yibg 1y agoMore official now: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/H1B_Proc_Memo_FINAL.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/memos/H1B...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]