43 ms·

Somewhat unrelated to the article, but I live in a mid-size EU city and dumped my car for an e-bike a few months ago. Surprisingly, it hasn't been that hard (m

• agilob 4y ago
  In any city I lived in in the last 10 years ebike would be stolen or at least the battery would be, in minutes.
• xapata 4y ago
  > you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking; A pedestrian I know was seriously injured (brain damage, years of therapy) by a cyclist who was going the wrong way down a one-way street. To be fair, the cyclist wasn't drunk, ... so maybe the drinking bit is completely irrelevant. Carry on then.
• sleepybrett 4y ago
  > - you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking; You might kill yourself though.
• Macha 4y ago
  > - do not have to worry about car maintenance, parking tickets or theft; I'm glad you're in a city you don't have to worry about theft, but this is one of my biggest issues with bike ownership. You basically need to get a shitty bike to not worry about it being stolen or hope there's something adequate to firmly lock it to at the destination in my city.
• smugma 4y ago
  I have an eBike but rarely use it. My main concern is theft. However, I frequently use Lyft eBikes to get around town (SF) but I don’t have the same concern for my car getting stolen if on the street for an hour (or all day at our offices in a locked room).
• acchow 4y ago
  It absolutely amazes me that places like Amsterdam, London, etc build so much safe bike infrastructure when the weather is so dreary. And despite the weather, of course people will use it because it feels great and is so fast! And yet, here we have California (especially LA) with the best cycling weather but barely any safe cycling routes. LA is laughably bad with tons of "bike routes" that are just the rightmost car lane shared with bicycles.
  • magnuspaaske 4y ago
    In Scandinavia the attitude is "there's no bad weather, only bad clothing" and going outside and feeling the seasons change is awesome. I find it kind of funny when people in Florida or California will have all this great weather but then end up spending so much time in indoor climate controlled environments from their house to their car to their office. The weather in the Northern Europe really doesn't stop you from being outside any more than the weather elsewhere does (counting forest fires and hurricanes as things that'll keep you indoors).
  • q845712 4y ago
    it's one of our greatest tragedies in the U.S. that the region most suited for walking/cycling/"active transit" is also the region completely obsessed with appearances and specifically with appearing like you just stepped out of the makeup trailer and onto the set for each scene. I honestly think that the social faux paux of looking like you might have been exercising, or exposed to wind, or the hair and clothing style limitations imposed by arriving via bicycle are major factors for SoCal, moreso than in many other parts of the country and world. For ~6 years my wife and I lived in Santa Barbara without owning a car. We'd occasionally rent one to get out of town - there were a couple times I left my bike locked up at the airport for a long weekend. I used to fantasize about making a documentary called "the disappearing bike" where you would video somebody cycling around town but every time the bike lane disappeared and then reappeared a quarter mile later, you'd show them just gliding across the street without their bicycle. Even in SB, which has a much more chill attitude on the roads than anything south of Thousand Oaks (as you head into the LA metro area), some drivers would be bizarrely unsympathetic to the fact that you were traversing a short strip with no bike line in order to connect two bike lanes, with reactions ranging from honking, yelling, revving the engine to loudly pass, "buzzing" you by passing much too close, ... but I think it generally follows that rule that most of us are kind and some small constant percentage (5? 10%?) of the world is jerks.
• wolverine876 4y ago
  > Pros: I'd add to your list: No stress of driving in traffic. Imagine your ride home is pleasant personal time and exercise in the fresh air, not cars honking in a standstill in traffic. You feel better after riding. I've had bike shops apologize for a $20 charge. :D They are thinking in a different context; I'm comparing that to my alternative, a car and its repair bills. > significantly faster if parking is taken into account for most trips. The bike is faster for any < 10 km / 7 mi trip; I don't think many people realize it: It's far more practical and efficient to ride. When you start doing it, driving (those distances) becomes frustrating and tedious, an odd choice given one that's faster, cheaper, and much better in all the other ways you listed. At an easy pace, a bicycle goes ~16 km/hr (10 mi/hr). Especially in a dense city, think what's within 5-10 miles of you. Imagine very little traffic and then parking for free, without looking for a spot, within probably 20m of the door (depending on the city and bike parking rules). > about €300/month in additional disposable income And how about the cost of the bicycle? $250-600 for a good one, used or new. I own several for different purposes, guests, etc. That would be pretty expensive if it was a car. And if it's stolen or damaged, buy another. > Cons: Also, not an option for those without the coordination to ride safely or durability to fall safely. Everyone falls. Elderly people can easily break bones.
  • andy_ppp 4y ago
    > I'd add to your list: No stress of driving in traffic. Imagine your ride home is pleasant personal time and exercise in the fresh air, not cars honking in a standstill in traffic. You feel better after riding. I imagine you have never cycled across London during peak hours, depending on the day some of the most nerve shredding cycling you can imagine; some of the angriest motorists in the world running people off the road (even squeezing me into the curb in a cycle lane, before threatening to kill me after I knocked on the back of his van) in their metal boxes completely oblivious to safe driving around cyclists and how defensive you have to be to be seen and yes sometimes get in the way of vehicles. Once some moron on the Kings road swings the door of his Lexus into the road (only cars exist right?) and I career into the opposite lane managing to just about stay on my bike and avoid the on rushing car beeping his horn at me as if I was cycling on the wrong side of the road deliberately. A near death experience I'd say. But yes cycling can be relaxing on occasion, just not on the roads motorists use and not in London during rush hour. I have to say having cycled across France the motorists there are absolutely amazing and give you loads of space when overtaking.
• moving_sofa 4y ago
  "Bicycles deliver the freedom that auto ads promise" https://twitter.com/tomflood1/status/1609976864897916930 https://twitter.com/tomflood1/status/1609976864897916930
• settrans 4y ago
  > you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking (other than yourself)
  • raphaelj 4y ago
    Indeed. Still better though.
  • ajmurmann 4y ago
    While much more rare than with cars, biciclysts still sometimes fatally hit pedestrians.
    • alkjsdlkjasd 4y ago
      Some numbers from 2021 in the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-road-user-risk-2021/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-road-user-risk-2021-data https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua... > Chart 4 shows that, again, in terms of absolute numbers, cars are the vehicle type most often involved in fatal collisions when others are killed, followed by HGVs and Light Goods Vehicles (LGVs). Very few other road users are killed in collisions with pedal cyclists or pedestrians (5 and 6 respectively in 2021).
      • jjgreen 4y ago
        I wonder if "road accident" includes incidents on the pavement? Not clear from that document.
        • _-____-_ 4y ago
          Cyclists on the pavement make me so angry. (Also, "pavement" means "sidewalk," for the Americans reading.)
          • emj 4y ago
            Why be angry about it; they are just scared of cars like the rest of us, I live in a neighborhood where the cyclepath just merges into the pavement. The cyclepath actually continues on the pavement if you look at the papers. My point is that we have pretty heavy traffic of inexperienced cyclists, and I never have an issue with them. As a cyclist I avoid pavements, the are very seldom the best route anyways. I do understand the fear that make them seem like the best options.
• bee_rider 4y ago
  Biking and drinking (in excess) — probably not the world’s best combo in general, but on the bright side it is just your own life at risk, and there’s a built-in coordination challenge, so I guess it isn’t possible to get going while truly hammered!
  • tokai 4y ago
    Eh what? You can definitely kill someone with your bike. Also if you kill yourself in traffic you will raise the risk of traffic related deaths for the responders. Many places in the world riding a bike drunk is as illegal as driving a car drunk.
    • DangitBobby 4y ago
      > Many places in the world riding a bike drunk is as illegal as driving a car drunk. Even if you assume the the risks outlined in your comment as relatively high likelihood (which I don't), it still makes 0 sense to think it's anywhere near as serious as driving drunk.
      • tokai 4y ago
        Riding a bike drunk is asocial and a danger to yourself and others. You might like to think of it as less serious, just like people thought of drunk driving as okay if you were careful. It's a judgment call you make, but it is objectively more dangerous than when you are sober.
        • DangitBobby 4y ago
          All motion is more dangerous while drunk, but how drunk you are matters, how fast you're going matters, and how dense traffic is matters. I'm not convinced of how much more dangerous biking is while mildly drunk than walking, or biking very slowly while very drunk, especially at night when almost no one is walking.
        • ilyt 4y ago
          So is walking anywhere
• mrpopo 4y ago
  1 car/household is still entirely feasible with children (and the norm for many lower-class in Europe). We live with 1 child and no car and it's been working fine thus far. You have to be careful about where you live and work though, but I'd say the added quality of life of living car-free (in a car-free city) is all worth it.
  • pjc50 4y ago
    If you live within London transport zone 1, it's quite likely to be a zero-car household, simply because of the difficulty in keeping the car somewhere.
    • rnk 4y ago
      That doesn't quite make sense, "it's difficult to avoid having a car because you can't store it"? Can you elaborate? I'm interested what life is like in these cities that charge drivers so as to reduce cars in the road.
      • em500 4y ago
        I think you misread GP: he's saying that in inner London it's difficult to have a car, not to avoid having one, mostly because parking space is very limited. What exactly are you interested in, about life such cities? I live in Amsterdam, haven't owned a car for over a decade (which doesn't mean that I never drive one), and haven't really missed it (even with a primary school aged child).
        • rnk 4y ago
          Sorry, just saw this. I do some sports that are 50 miles from the city, and there's no public transportation, not even any private transportation. Skiing is one such activity, but hiking and camping in the summer time. I do recognize that I'm using energy to do these things. I'd love to take a bus. Actually in my west coast city, during the summer they have bus service to a number of area hiking trails, within 10 miles of the city. But these other farther away activities are out of that reach.
• onpensionsterm 4y ago
  >- Immediately stopped having insomnia. Better feel overall; It's interesting you mention that. When I took up cycling to work in Manchester, I started struggling to fall fully asleep because I'd have short pseudo-dreams about the POV of cycling on wet, dark, busy roads & jerk awake, scared that I was falling asleep at the handlebars.
  • GoToRO 4y ago
    It goes away after some time. It's almost as if you unlock a lot of stored energy just by moving. After a while the extra energy is gone and you will sleep right away.
    • ilyt 4y ago
      I just... got more fit and stopped being all that much tired after the trip so it stopped helping for sleep.
• alkjsdlkjasd 4y ago
  > - weather might make the ride unpleasant; As the Dutch like to say: there is no such thing as bad cycling weather, only bad cycling clothes. I would strongly recommond a pair of water/wind proof trousers to go over your regular trousers, if you don't already have some. This has lead to a much more pleasant riding experience, especially in winter. They aren't very practical on a regular bike as they make you uncomfortably hot, but on an e-bike, it's much less of a worry.
  • meindnoch 4y ago
    How often does it snow in the Netherlands?
    • badpun 4y ago
      Amazingly, there is a city almost as dominated by cyclists in Finland (don't remember how it's called atm). The city is plowing and de-icing all the bike paths on regular basis. They're also well-lit, as people's commutes during winter months are often in the dark.
      • joromero 4y ago
        Another interesting fact is that at least some of the cycle lane markings are projected rather than painted because otherwise they would be covered by the snow.
      • bertil 4y ago
        You are thinking of Oulu. It’s not just Oulu, though: any city with students in the North has a lot of bikes, Umeå in Sweden has 40k students almost all on bikes; Vaasa (opposite Umeå, in Finland) also has a lot of bikes. Uppsala, Stockholm, Malmö, Göteborg, Eppo, all have a lot of bikes—and just as many in winter and summer.
    • Xylakant 4y ago
      Meet Oulu, the winter cycling capital of the world. https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/01/22/meet-the-bike-loving-finnish-city-that-keeps-pedalling-even-in-the-snow https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/01/22/meet-the-bike-... https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/what-on-earth-winter-biking-1.6781027 https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/what-on-earth-winter-biking-...
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• Zardoz89 4y ago
  You can absolutely kill a pedestrian or another cyclist when on an e-bike, do not drink and ride
• jraby3 4y ago
  I’ve had 5 bikes stolen and no cars stolen, so have to disagree about worrying about theft.
  • raphaelj 4y ago
    Well, my bike is insured, and I bought a recently released angle grinder-resistant lock [1]. My workspace is also fairly well located so that also helps. [1] https://eu.litelok.com/products/litelok-x1 https://eu.litelok.com/products/litelok-x1
    • afavour 4y ago
      The concern I have (in NYC FWIW) is that someone will see they can’t steal the bike and will instead just trash the thing while it’s still locked. Maybe I’m too pessimistic.
      • ClapperHeid 4y ago
        That's pretty much my experience in the city where I used to live. I'd regularly pass bikes securly locked to some post or other but with the front wheel stoved in and bent. I always assumed a would-be thief had done it in a fit of pique, after failing to get the lock open.
        • newaccount74 4y ago
          Drunk assholes smash random stuff all the time without first trying to steal it. Bicycle wheels are unfortunately easily bent by kicks from the side.
        • danjoredd 4y ago
          These days it seems worth it to get a folding bike. I am currently trying to get one myself so I don't have to worry about it getting stolen OR trashed. I just fold it up and take it inside where nobody will touch it
    • ClapperHeid 4y ago
• fipar 4y ago
  About not killing someone if you ride after drinking, Obviously it is ver difficult for a bike to directly kill someone other than the rider (as opposed to a car, where this is very easy), but a drunk cyclist can still hurt other people directly or indirectly (causing a bigger accident by forcing someone to avoid them). Even on a city free of private cars, you’d still share the road with pedestrians, other cyclists, and public transportation. And even if you really don’t hurt someone else, it’s terribly hard on a bus driver if they kill someone, even when it wasn’t their fault (my wife saw this first hand when someone committed suicide by throwing themselves under a bus). So no, if you drink, just walk, take public transportation, or get someone else to take you home, but don’t ride a bike. (edit: typos)
  • Fricken 4y ago
    The risks you're concerned about are not statistically relevant.
    • mecsred 4y ago
      Cool thanks for letting me know. Time to down a 40 and start doing wheelies through high traffic crosswalks.
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      • InitialLastName 4y ago
        Safer than doing the same with burnouts in a parking lot.
  • jerrre 4y ago
    Don't most of you points also apply to drunk walking?
    • nonethewiser 4y ago
      The damage is a function of mass and speed. Obviously walking < e-bike << car
• jacobr1 4y ago
  > - do not have to worry about car maintenance, parking tickets or theft; While significantly less of a hassle than car maintenance, if you are riding a bike daily, you do now need to consider bike maintenance. And theft remains an issue in many cities for bikes as well.
  • eyko 4y ago
    I used to cycle daily and as far as maintenance went, it was mostly: bike tyres once a year, valves, chain lubricant, bike repair toolbox (purchase once), drum brake maintenance. All in all it would be about £100 per year on average and I'm being generous. I've never owned a car, but the cost of replacing a lost bike (mine cost around £600) plus its maintenance (let's say £200 per year to be generous) sounds cheaper than what I'd pay for car insurance, petrol, and maintenance per year in UK/Europe. I also live in London where public transportation, even with its aging infrastructure, is wonderful. I'd definitely get a car if I was living outside of a big relatively city, especially if it isn't planned for walking and cycling.
• afavour 4y ago
  I live in NYC and love being car free. But with two kids that within a few years will be attending two different schools the pull of car ownership gets stronger and stronger. It’s depressing, especially as there is so much the city could do to encourage bikers but never does.
  • CalRobert 4y ago
    For being America's flagship city it's insane how car-choked and human-hostile NYC is.
  • ilyt 4y ago
    It's weird dissonance, here in rural village I cycled a lot to school during reasonable weather (from like age of 8, around ~10km), and outside of that school bus. Of course not really a option in unsafe spaces or younger kids.
• havblue 4y ago
  "might be impossible depending on work or children" I'll note that getting rid of a lot of cars would be nice for safety and pollution reasons, but many proponents underestimate how difficult the kid situation becomes, especially after having more than one. People tend to move their families to the suburbs for a reason.
• matsemann 4y ago
  > - might be impossible depending on work or children; The newer style of cargo bikes can for many families replace a car. Have two kids seated in the trunk of the bike and drop them off at kindergarten, then continue biking to work and pick them up on the way home. Those are a bit on the pricier side, though. Still cheap compared to a car, but people often look at them as something "extravagant" or "in addition" to a car. But they can be a replacement for most car use, and then just rent a car for other more seldom occasions. And to avoid the initial big purchase, not even sure if it's something for you, there's a startup where I live ( https://whee.no/ https://whee.no/ ) where you also can rent the bike on a monthly basis. Really recommended to see if it suits your lifestyle. Lastly, I also think this kind of easier movement will change how people live. You can no longer expect to move out of the city and still get a short way to everything by using your car, making life miserable for everyone else (noise, danger, pollution, too much asphalt). So I think we will see a shift in where people settle, where they will no longer base their lives around owning multiple cars.
  • celticninja 4y ago
    I used a bike trailer and child seat when my twins were young, I could drop all 3 kids off at nursery, unhitch the trailer and leave it at the nursery, cycle on to work from there. On the way back I would hitch the trailer up and go in and collect them and cycle home. Trailer was around £150 and I only had to tow it when necessary.
  • sidfthec 4y ago
    Why is no one talking about the safety of hauling kids on a bike? It's incredibly dangerous compared to a car. In my city, it's not if but when you'll get hit by a car on a bike. Yet I see parents increasingly think it's okay to haul their children on their bikes.
    • oangemangut 4y ago
      Because it should be okay, and it's a societal failing that it currently isn't as safe as it should be. Cars are always safer for their occupants, but using them puts vulnerable road users at greater risk of serious injury or death. In my city I love to see more people on the road with their kids on e-bikes. It shouldn't be a moral failing on part of the parent to be doing that. OTOH, just this morning one of the A*Hole parents back her SUV out of a parking space in a day care parking lot while on the phone and holding the phone to her ear. When I motioned for her to get off her phone in the DAYCARE PARKING LOT she shrugged and sped off.
• secretsatan 4y ago
  Also noting on drinking and riding, in Switzerland, it's possible to lose your drivers license if caught doing it, I kinda think thats unfair and not very sensible at all as a policy.
  • madeofpalk 4y ago
    What if you just don't have a drivers license?
    • Gigachad 4y ago
      At least in Australia, you get the fine, and your ability to get a license is suspended same as if you had one.
    • secretsatan 4y ago
      I'm not sure, I was under the impression that you won't be able to get one for the period it would be suspended, but can't find a source.
• britzkopf 4y ago
  Don't have to worry about theft?! Wow, Europe must be so different than North America. I'm much more worried about my biker being stolen (has happened about a dozen times in my life) than my car. If the former happens you get absolutely zero support, while if the latter happens the police will actually try to do something.
  • Macha 4y ago
    > If the former happens you get absolutely zero support, while if the latter happens the police will actually try to do something. The sad thing here is that it's not even triaging by property damage. Your €1000 fifth hand car will get more police attention if stolen than a €3000 ebike.
  • waldothedog 4y ago
    A dozen times? Damn, where do you live if you don’t mind me asking?
    • britzkopf 4y ago
      Vancouver, Canada
    • mschuster91 4y ago
      Probably Amsterdam, where 80.000 bikes are stolen per year [1] - at 821k inhabitants, one in ten will statistically have a bike stolen each year. The country is on its best way to become Europe's head narco state. [1] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0279906 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
  • acidburnNSA 4y ago
    This stood out to me too. I'm pretty sure that every nice e-bike left outside gets stolen within minutes in my city.
  • interdrift 4y ago
    bike thefts happen in the Netherland (once I saw a 50+ year old guy walking around inspecting bikes in a student neighbourhood + multiple bike thefts in that area). Also in Bulgaria where I am from :) but I can't say where it happens more or what the chances are.
• thinkindie 4y ago
  I live in Berlin, within the Ring (for those familiar with the city). I don't own a car, I have multiple carsharing subscriptions and I have two children, 1 and 4. We have a cargo bike to move them around and do groceries, almost in any weather (as long as it doesn't rain), otherwise we have public transport as a backup.
  • nonethewiser 4y ago
    Where do you live for those of us unfamiliar with the city? Paris? More on topic - Bikes make a lot of sense in the city but if you add kids to the equation the safety risk just becomes too high to stomach IMO.
    • alkjsdlkjasd 4y ago
      Reference is the s-bahn ring: https://oxyi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/map-of-berlin-commuter-rail-s-bahn-stations-lines-with-s-bahn-ring-berlin-karte-1024x724.jpg https://oxyi.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/map-of-berlin-co...
    • alkjsdlkjasd 4y ago
      > the safety risk just becomes too high to stomach Check out chart 2: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-road-user-risk-2021/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-road-user-risk-2021-data https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua...
      • nonethewiser 4y ago
        To share with everyone else, chart 2 shows 12x more fatalities per mile traveled for bikes compared to cars.
        • alkjsdlkjasd 4y ago
          On the other hand, is shows that pedestrians and cyclists have the same rate of fatalities per mile traveled. So better to not walk or cycle and just stick to your car /s
• hardware2win 4y ago
  >you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking; You may, especially that ebikes are hella fast. Dont ride after alcohol. In my country you would lose car license if they caught you driving a bike while drunk
• throwaway_ab 4y ago
  Did you put theft under the wrong heading? I've had many bikes stolen and everyone I know who rides has at least one bike stolen. I've never had anything stolen from my car and no issues with car theft, and I don't know anyone who has had their car stolen. I've met two people in my life who have had items stolen from their car, and in both cases they left their car unlocked.
  • flanbiscuit 4y ago
    I was thinking the same thing when they talked about "theft". Looks like they live in Belgium Maybe there's less bike theft there?
• mikrl 4y ago
  - if you ride after a night drinking I was at my local bar here in Ontario and a gang of older fellows (boomer/Gen X) roll up on electric stand-up scooters. Some drunk zoomers started laughing and giving them shit and flexing their trucks but they just ignored them, had their 3-4 beers and said they were going to <fancy uptown bar> which would have been at least 45 minutes to walk.
• LightBug1 4y ago
  >>- you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking; Please don't take that attitude ... I have a work colleague who basically had an ankle tendon sliced by just such a person. The very likely outcome now is that they will never walk or run normally ever again.
  • LightBug1 4y ago
    Interesting. I genuinely couldn't give af about points on these kind of websites, but I've noticed the count on this comment vary up and down. What kind of @sshole would disagree with the sentiment? I do worry about those who walk among us.
• vishnugupta 4y ago
  > might be impossible depending ... children Bakfiets[1][2] FTW!! I lived with my two young (under 10) children in Amsterdam for one year without car relying 90% on Bakfiets and occasional Uber rides. After a brief period of teething issues it worked out perfect, even in winters/rains. I used the non-e-bike version as I didn't want to splurge on Urbanarrow about which I kept hearing raving reviews. [1] https://www.bakfiets.com https://www.bakfiets.com [2] https://urbanarrow.com https://urbanarrow.com
• mytailorisrich 4y ago
  > you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking; You definitely can still kill someone. In at least some countries an 'e-bike', depending of exactly which type it is, may be motor vehicle that falls into the exact same laws as drink driving a car. If not it may still be illegal to ride a bike on the road while drunk.
• ilyt 4y ago
  I live in big-ish EU city (Warsaw, Hamburg/Glasgow level of population) and have been cycling for 10+ years, moved to car for various unrelated reasons. But car commute is still faster. I can get from home to work in ~35 minutes at lower traffic (say 10AM, blessed be flexible work hours) and in MAX hour in more of a rush traffic. Best time by bicycle is around 1h10m. I do park at work building so that's 5-10 minutes of looking for parking saved there. Technically I can get there by 50 min if I get with bike to metro but that's pretty much possible only on off hours. It's definitely pretty nice way to keep in shape, now with more remote work I just use the time saved to do some cycling. Did it pretty much "from when it stopped snowing to when it started", 20km a day (I went via metro in the morning, came back cycling, just didn't wanted to do all the mess with arriving sweaty and having shower at work every day), including few in pouring rain at near-zero 0C which was.. experience and I have now learned to stop shivering by force of will alone. Thought I'd get less fat but it didn't work, tho I did get more healthy overall. Diet is the key in the end. > - somewhat dangerous when the infrastructure is lacking. Yeah I try to not share any road with cars as much as I could. For 10 years I don't think I had a day where I didn't saw some car doing something sketchy or just driver not paying attention. Not that cyclists were holy here just... much less potential for damage. > - you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking; please just don't
  • KptMarchewa 4y ago
    1:10h on bike in Warsaw is like 20km, it's pretty much whole city in straight line length: https://i.imgur.com/21GFPI1.png https://i.imgur.com/21GFPI1.png You just live very far from your job.
    • ovi256 4y ago
      It takes longer than continuous biking in a city would make one think, for the same reason driving does: you have to stop at red lights, yield, wait in traffic.
      • KptMarchewa 4y ago
        My average was 18-20km/h, but half the journey was on the Vistula river bank which makes lights irrelevant. https://um.warszawa.pl/documents/61166/6599671/08102017_Bulwary-5_0.jpg https://um.warszawa.pl/documents/61166/6599671/08102017_Bulw... Still, would assume 16-18km/h is minimum reasonable speed unless you ride like a pensioner.
• lr1970 4y ago
  > - do not have to worry about car maintenance, parking tickets or theft; You are concerned about car theft but not about e-bike theft. How come? Stealing e-bike is so much easier.
  • ilyt 4y ago
    How many e-bikes would need to be stolen to reach average car price tho? You could have one stolen every year and still end up cheaper than owning a car. Hell, just price of petrol+insurance for a year is more expensive
• koonsolo 4y ago
  Some time ago I was surprised how fast these e-bikes are compared to my motorcycle. In Belgium we have plenty of roads where bikes can go but not cars & motorcycles. One morning I overtook a colleague on an e-bike (max 45km/h) with my motorcycle. A few streets later I overtook him again, since he took a shortcut that I was not allowed to take. A bit later I overtook him again, since I had a red light and he again took a shortcut. We arrived at the same time at work. Impressive!
  • ilyt 4y ago
    I've seen someone on one of those e-scooters going like 40km/h. It looked terrifying. I'd be worried doing that much on bicycle but on tiny scooter wheels anything bad and you're catapulted into pavement.
    • harambae 4y ago
      I have some experience with these and 40km/h (just under 25mph) is roughly half what some will do [0][1] and with full-suspension you wouldn't necessary be catapulted with a small bump. But when going above bicycle speeds, I do tend to wear increased safety gear. My biggest concern is always being t-boned by a car. [0] https://varlascooter.com/products/varla-eagle-one-dual-motor-electric-scooter-1/ https://varlascooter.com/products/varla-eagle-one-dual-motor... [1] https://fluidfreeride.com/pages/nami-burn-e https://fluidfreeride.com/pages/nami-burn-e
  • vladvasiliu 4y ago
    Are you sure your friend was actually allowed to take that shortcut with an e-bike going 45 km/h? AFAIK, these are considered "light motorbikes" (or something) and require the same paperwork (aside from an "easier" license) and gear as regular motorbikes. More importantly, they are specifically not bikes and aren't allowed to ride on bike lanes any more than a fat liter+ bike is.
    • koonsolo 4y ago
      You are correct, but for those shortcuts it was allowed. There is however a grey zone when going on bicycle lanes next to the rivers, because you can go max 30km/h there. But when nobody is there, I'm sure most e-bikes just go max speed.
• mellosouls 4y ago
  significantly faster if parking is taken into account for most trips This sounds unlikely for the average cycling commuter if parking alone is making the difference- cyclists (as motorcyclists) need to change (at each side) and shower etc; I think that is often forgotten in these calculations.
  • jonahrd 4y ago
    I could probably count the number of times I've changed or showered after cycling on one hand, and cycling has been my main mode of transit for 10 years. When your trip is like 3km you don't even have time to work up a sweat, especially if you're limited to just going at the speed of traffic. (Yes, on my own I could probably ride faster, but I'm limited by car/infrastructure speed)
    • mellosouls 4y ago
      Sure, there are always going to be anecdotal exceptions ("parking isn't an issue for me, I just park on site"), but I think fans on either side can have quite rose-tinted views when assessing the pros and cons; I was just pointing out an omission in one of the examples.
      • jonahrd 4y ago
        I live in the highest density cycling city in North America (Montreal) and this is not anecdotal. A huge portion of my office cycle-commutes to work, and the vast majority do not shower. This was doubly-true before I worked at my current company, where there weren't showers, and still most people used bikes to commute. At what point do anecdotes from people who actually live this experience day to day become more useful to listen to than theories from people who don't?
        • mellosouls 4y ago
          I used to commute by bike myself (and would still if logistics allowed), so you should probably not presume. The fact is, short of linking to professional analysis and reporting we are all here relating anecdotes - and that's ok.
• cypress66 4y ago
  > you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking; Wow. After a family member of mine being injured by a cyclist crashing into them, reading something like this is quite infuriating. If you drink, don't drive, even if it's a bicycle.
  • _-____-_ 4y ago
    Not to mention, you could easily kill yourself. If you're biking on the roads (especially in the UK where they're extremely narrow), you better recognize you're partaking in a dangerous activity and take it seriously. At least wear a helmet. Also, cycling drunk is illegal in many jurisdictions and can get you a DUI in the same way as drunk driving a car. If you're on an e-bike, it's almost certainly illegal, since you're driving a motorized vehicle.
  • mns 4y ago
    Yeah, that's one of the big problems with bikes. People want all the benefits of using them everywhere (pedestrian only pathways, on roads, on bike lanes), but none of the responsibilities (don't drink and drive, right of way, traffic lights, traffic rules in general). People just don't see them as a serious thing, so they use bikes without any rules, getting themselves and others in danger, minimising the risks.
  • Mashimo 4y ago
    I drink and bike. I'm debating with myself how safe it is. Currently I'm still on "it's fine" side of things. I'm open the change though.
• jwr 4y ago
  Very similar impressions after years of biking (and having switched to an E-bike about 2 years ago). I bike year-round in Warsaw, Poland, even though most people consider winter to be "off-season". Don't really understand why — they do go skiing after all, so cold must not be the problem? The only days I don't bike is when it's raining heavily or when it's really slippery (lots of snow, freshly frozen sleet, etc). There are days when I don't ride a bike, and on these days I can really tell the difference: I feel much worse. I found that what I miss when switching to a car is the sense of freedom: on a bike, you can stop pretty much anywhere, while in a car you need to follow the road in the traffic and are generally stuck. No way to stop quickly, take a phone call, or admire the pretty passers-by. Also, switching to an E-bike was a great idea: it doesn't take away the exercise (as most people tend to think), it just makes biking more pleasant and extends the max distance I can go. And in summertime I can set the assist to max and not worry about arriving all sweaty. If you live in a city, I'd highly recommend getting a city E-bike. Not a mountain bike. A city bike with proper mudguards, upright posture, and a large basket in front. Don't be that guy in lycra pants on a mountain bike, with a backpack on his (sweaty) back, taking the full additional weight of the backpack on the narrow seat, and with a mud stripe on his back. Enjoy life!
  • tasuki 4y ago
    Apart from the air quality, Warsaw is great for cycling. It ain't hilly and there's enough bike lanes. Also Veturilo is pretty good with its dense network, especially in Spring before the bikes start breaking :)
    • jwr 4y ago
      Agreed about terrible air quality in winter. As to "great for cycling", I think it has a long way to go — there aren't that many bike lanes and there are parts of the city which are split by huge car-only high-traffic moats. But it isn't terrible either!
• tempsy 4y ago
  I always hear people make the argument that cost savings is the biggest benefit of ditching a car and living in a city with good public transportation. Then I look at NYC and it's $5k to rent a 1 bedroom and everything as soon as you walk out the door is 30-50% more expensive than most other cities. No one is saving money not having a car in NYC when everything else is so much more expensive.
  • onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    You can get paid 1000% depending on your job, so YMMV.
• scythe 4y ago
  >- might be impossible depending on work or children The public (media) conversation has largely focused on whether people give up cars entirely, but at least in America, the norm is for most families to have two cars, if not more. Walking that back to one car would meaningfully reduce the design constraints on medium-density housing — you can build a neighborhood of small houses with only street parking, for example, which is basically impossible when people need two cars — and therefore it would also reduce housing costs in urban neighborhoods. Ebikes could significantly help with that even if they don't lead to the car-free future envisioned by some techno-urbanists. For example, your girlfriend has a car.
• docmars 4y ago
  [flagged]
  • thiht 4y ago
    That's such bad faith.
    • docmars 4y ago
      Until it happens, and then what say you? And faith? In a secular religion with a shaky track record of alarmism and embarrassingly failed predictions, and then using them to corner companies and individuals into an unhealthy guilt complex about... existing? Yeah.
• ed_balls 4y ago
  > might be impossible depending on work or children a dog it's even worse in this regard. I don't think any taxi will refuse a child.
  • andrewshadura 4y ago
    Well, it does happen sometimes.
• TomK32 4y ago
  > - might be impossible depending on work or children; I can only speak for Austria and Germany, two countries that have the Pendlerpauschale, a tax rebate for those with a long commute and motorists far too much from this, it's even worse in Austria where high-income earner profit more from this than lower-income earners. Would that be dropped people would finally move closer to work (or work closer to them) and a lot of traffic into the city I live could be avoided (which would possibly lead to city residents using their car more often...) > - significantly faster if parking is taken into account for most trips. Fun fact about this: If a city reduces free/cheap over-ground parking and builds a few more parking houses, traffic can increase because straight driving to a parking house makes parking easier because they stop bothering looking for the few remaining overground parking spots.
  • benatkin 4y ago
    In most places, not only do parents with children need to use something other than a bicycle for transportation because of inconvenience, but many have to quit using them because the children depend on them and they shouldn't be taking unnecessary risks with their lives.
• throw0101b 4y ago
  > - might be impossible depending on work or children; For the latter, perhaps see "The Car-Replacement Bicycle (the bakfiets)": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhzEnWCgHA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhzEnWCgHA > - weather might make the ride unpleasant; I live in Toronto, Canada, and in the Before Times I cycled everday between ~April and December, rain or shine. The simplest solution is to just always have bad weather gear: it's like and doesn't take up much volume. Having it in a pannier means you always have it and don't have to think about it. The simplest solution for rain is a poncho, though I went with jackets and rain pants. I found the threat of rain is more of an obstacle that actual rain. If your commute is <40 minutes, odds are pretty good it won't actually rain during your ride. It's the possibility of it that tends discourage people, in which case some gear works to counter it. That said, if you ride >80% of the time when the weather isn't too bad that's still a good improvement over not riding at all.
• r00fus 4y ago
  Theft is the major reason I haven't invested in a utility e-bike (or use my expensive road bike) to do local shopping. I live in a place with fantastic bike-ability, but don't shop because of theft concerns. Is that different in London?
  • djtango 4y ago
    No bike theft is a huge problem in London
    • boudin 4y ago
      There are more bike hangars now though, but it often just solves half of the problem.
• tomatocracy 4y ago
  One big con you missed is "where do you keep it?" Cargo bikes big enough for (say) one adult plus two large children basically take up the space of a small car. I have room for bikes (and cycle to work myself) and a car in London (and I need my car for journeys outside London) but no way I would have room for a cargo bike as well.
• SergeAx 4y ago
  > you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking; It actually depends, but chances are better. > do not have to worry about car maintenance, parking tickets or theft; Isn't bicycle theft wider than car theft in Europe? Bycicle is easier to steal and easier to sell to black market resellers.
• Tarrosion 4y ago
  Do you worry about ebike theft? If not, how do you lock it in public?
  • andrewshadura 4y ago
    With a chain and a good lock.
• sebcat 4y ago
  > you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking You might however end up at the hospital doing that, or worse.
• dustedcodes 4y ago
  I really dislike cars in cities, but equally I dislike cyclists and cycling myself for the following reasons: > do not have to worry about car maintenance, parking tickets or theft; Not sure where bicycle theft is not a thing, I've not encountered this, even in Vienna, one of the safest cities in the world. You still need to lock your bicycle safely. > you will not kill someone if you ride after a night drinking; In London I see plenty of irresponsible cyclists badly harming pedestrians. > amazing when the weather is great; Or you end up drenched in sweat wherever you go. Personally I hate cycling for that reason as a way of commute in the city. Other reasons why I hate cycling and cyclists: - Uneven roads, pot holes, getting splashed by cars who drive through puddles - Inflexibility. You go somewhere, meet someone or your group of friends now spontaneously decide to move on to a different place and you'll be the loner who has to split from the group and meet them later again or you have to abandon your bicycle and get back the next day to pick it up. Sod that. - Helmets. I can't stand helmet hair. Also how fucking annoying is it to have to carry your helmet everywhere even after parking your bicycle. - Dirty clothes. You always end up with muddy splashes on your trousers. If you cycle then better not wear nice shoes or light trousers, which again limits where/when you can effectively use a bicycle as a way of commute. - Male genitalia. Cyclists completely kill off their male reproductive parts. If you cycle your whole life for daily commuting to places then you'll certainly end up with fertility issues and probably require assistance to get erected in older age. No thank you lol. Cycling is hugely overrated and I can't find anything nice about it to be honest. I rather have cities be transformed into amazing public transport systems so that I can go to places without a stupid castration apparatus.
  • ryukafalz 4y ago
    > You always end up with muddy splashes on your trousers. If you cycle then better not wear nice shoes or light trousers, which again limits where/when you can effectively use a bicycle as a way of commute. Does your bike not have fenders?
    • tremon 4y ago
      I suspect his bike might not even have a saddle.
• jcul 4y ago
  Cons: >- might be impossible depending on >work or children; > >- weather might make the ride >unpleasant; > >- somewhat dangerous when the >infrastructure is lacking. None of those things are so bad once you get used to them, except perhaps the 3rd. I've used a bike for commuting for years. Since having kids I now have a seat on the back and one on the front to drop them to childcare. The city I live in rains a lot! And it is quite hilly, and this is a normal bike, not an ebike. But I still prefer it much more than driving, I just have the waterproof gear at hand. The infrastructure and weather was a lot better for cycling in the city I just moved from, but I think even without good cycling lanes etc, if you are vigilant, signal well, and be assertive when needed it can still be fine.
• unixgoddess 4y ago
  > not worry about theft How do you protect your bike? Isn't it more likely to get your bike wheels stolen than to get your car stolen? Also, 10eur for just one lunch?? 8D
• bluecalm 4y ago
  I assume you can store your e-bike somewhere safe when commuting. Imo theft and complete unwillingness shown almost universally shown by police to do anything about it is a major obstacle in wider bike/e-bike adoption. If it wasn't for theft I would do 0 trips with my car within a city. As it is I can't even go shopping to the supermarket as my bike will be gone sooner or later.
• surfingdino 4y ago
  Bikes are also good for economy. The amount of expensive add-ons I see on the bikers and their bikes suggest to me it's good business. Helmets, clothing, and electronic add-ons are likely adding around £1,000 per annum to the cost of ownership. Bikes prices are a bit silly though. Expensive bikes (those in the £3,000 range) are ~25% of the price of a new Dacia Sandero. Bike theft is rampant in London, so the insurance premiums are high, too. It can cost £300 per year. Cons? Not all offices are equipped with showers.