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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• jerryu 4y ago
  Those POS made by Square are the reason for this. Always begging for more...
• exabrial 4y ago
  Yes. If you business wants to collect a "tip" up front, before services rendered, it's not a tip (Doordash, Instacart, etc). If 100% of the proceeds don't get straight to the employees, but some end up in the pocket of the business, it's not a tip. This last one is going to be to hear, but if you pay your employees below mimimum wage and allow for tips to make up the difference, well..... Always tip, in cash, direct to the employee.
  • jackson1442 4y ago
    delivery services just need to rename it to a "bid" because that's really what it is.
    • godelski 4y ago
      Economists would probably love this, but I don't think consumers would.
    • nanidin 4y ago
      Yes, and this is exactly what I proposed to my senators and representatives.
  • pirate787 4y ago
    I worry if I don't tip, they will vandalize my food. It's a hostage situation. I limit my use of the services because of it.
    • moomoo11 4y ago
      I've faced that after moving to SF. Stopped eating out unless its a actually special high end place or something. I was in a rush and didn't put a tip, I found a hair in my fried rice and the tofu was not fully cooked. I'd ordered from that place a couple times before and its like $22 with tip for just Thai red curry with rice.. The prices are insane. Even if I made 10x what I make, I wouldn't eat out unless its really special.
      • kylehotchkiss 4y ago
        Here's a tip: report this to the department of public health!
        • moomoo11 4y ago
          Sure, but this is an isolated incident. I don't want to attribute to malice what could have been a total accident that day, maybe the kitchen was just busy. However, it was coincidental that it happened at a time when I didn't tip. I'll keep that in mind for next time though if it ever happens again! Now I kind of want to do a social experiment.. go to a restaurant like 4-5 times and then don't tip once to see what happens. If its really true service is affected that way, then its a broader problem.
          • maerF0x0 4y ago
            Malice or not, a trend is found by data. Report it, if it's one off it's fine, if it's not it's a trend.
            • moomoo11 4y ago
              Will they know it was me if I report?
    • denkmoon 4y ago
      In australia we have no tipping culture and I've always been very against it, but I've found if I don't tip the quality of delivery driver is just abysmal, but if I do tip, I get "regular" service - ie. they come to my door in my apartment building, not just leave it in the lobby, and they usually don't completely fuck it up (ie. squished pizza from holding the box vertically). It sucks but I just view it as an extra cost for using uber eats.
  • cactusplant7374 4y ago
    I tip up front with Uber Eats and Rappi because it usually means I get my order faster. But I have reduced tipping recently because I can see other orders are taking priority over mine.
    • avereveard 4y ago
      I absolutely do not use these services unless there's a substantial coupon involved, it's madness. You get a delivery surcharge, a service surcharge, and a 20% tip to top it all or risk the food be messed with. Last order was 25 eur food and 20 eur charges for two hamburger before I went in and reduced the tip %. If it weren't for the 15e coupon I'd never have completed such a predatory transaction.
      • cactusplant7374 4y ago
        A few years ago Uber and Uber Eats in Ecuador was awesome. I could order a meal for $5-$8. Sometimes two dishes. I could take a taxi around town for $3. The promotions were dropped and the price of food increased substantially.
  • teawrecks 4y ago
    Should the person greeting and seating customers get a tip? Should the people running food from kitchen to table? Cooks? If any of the above are a yes, then unless you want to tip each one in cash individually, you need them to split tips at the end of the night amongst themselves. The fact that tips technically need to be reported to the IRS and thus your employer aside, I believe it is a legally fireable offense to pocket cash in order to avoid any policies on splitting it with others working the same shift.
    • exabrial 4y ago
      A lot of restaurants do that? If it's agreed up by the employees BEFORE the transactions are taking place or even the employment decision is made, then whatever system they choose is fair (cooks or no cooks, etc). The key here is the the cooks know what they're getting into as well as the servers. The problem is when the restaurant tries to change the rules in the middle of the game (Like the girl in Bentonville who's manager tried to confiscate a $2k tip) OR the restaurant owner sees this cash left on the table and gets a little greedy.
  • undersuit 4y ago
    I really dislike tipping when I order my pizza deliveries. It doesn't offer me anything over giving the delivery driver a $5 bill.
  • nanidin 4y ago
    I contacted my senators and representatives about how the IRS should classify tips made before service. I got a call back from my senator’s office. The reasoning I presented was: that automatic gratuity for large parties is taxed differently than actual gratuity in some jurisdictions (why those have disappeared in most places), and that since the tip is used to determine order priority it is not a tip but is instead a bid for preferential service. I also went through a call to get back a tip I made on a Chipotle order (DoorDash I believe) up front after the driver failed to find the address and then chewed me out after driving through parking lots for 5 minutes.
• cratermoon 4y ago
  Solution: pay people a decent wage. Stop externalizing the costs of running a business. If you can't make enough money to keep the business viable, then maybe the law of supply and demand and the free market is trying to tell you something.
  • bluedino 4y ago
    Plenty of restaurants have a sign advertising $15 starting wage and have too jars And this is fast casual where you don't even have a waiter.
    • cratermoon 4y ago
      > $15 starting wage Let me say again "a decent wage"
  • loloquwowndueo 4y ago
    That law works on the side of labor too : if competition (more supply of workers vs fewer work slots) for the job is high enough that employees are willing to risk working for a crappy wage plus tips, then employers can still get away with this. As long as regulations permit. I agree that a decent wage is the best path forward.
  • kube-system 4y ago
    Why would businesses stop asking for tips if wages rise? Tipping is a cultural norm in the US that won’t be changed by the price on the menu going up a few bucks. If anything, the relationship is the opposite. You are socially expected to tip better for more expensive meals.
• musicale 4y ago
  Starbucks: "No, we won't raise your wages, but we'll add digital tipping."
  • DrThunder 4y ago
    Seems like a win for the consumer. You don't have to tip but if they raise the wages you'll be paying more for the same service and same product.
    • notfromhere 4y ago
      "We won't raise your wage, we'll just let you beg for it instead"
      • DrThunder 4y ago
        Who is you? Is there someone out there requiring Starbucks workers that make minimum wage (or higher in many cases) to stay at that job and ask for tips? Are you considering providing good customer service begging for a wage? I'm confused here.
• adam_arthur 4y ago
  Given that even retail stores have added tipping prompts to their checkouts, I'd say yes. Plus many restaurants with placeholder tip icons that start at 25%+ You also don't know what the tip is really going towards in many cases. In the classic restaurant/waitstaff case you can reasonably expect it to go to the workers, in the random knick knack or general goods stores ??? Tipping in general is a system to transfer wealth from the charitable to the uncharitable (high tippers pay more and subsidize the business, low tippers pay less). I believe in the spirit of tipping rewarding better service, but by and large it doesn't actually function that way. Most tip ~20% on everything outside of extreme circumstances. Much better for everything to be baked into the price of whatever good or service it is.
  • notch656c 4y ago
    I noticed the expected tipping percentage go up after most customers started tipping in credit. Tipped workers had to up their game because they can no longer do tax evasion with everything on the record. Back in the days where most paid their restaurant with cash, tips were more like 15%. The move from 15 to more like 20 to 25% almost perfectly corresponds with the amount needed to make the same earnings after tax.
    • barbazoo 4y ago
      Do workers usually get a say in what those tip levels should be? I can't imagine that being the case.
      • notch656c 4y ago
        I don't know all the mechanisms behind how it happened. I expect indirectly yes, as employees choose to work where they are paid highest (if possible) and employers putting the pre-calculated percentages on the receipt / point of sale that match those desires influence tips. You have to keep up with employee expectation to keep and retain employees and setting those expectation at the point of sale as a voluntary option is an easy win.
    • giardia 4y ago
• jalino23 4y ago
  its expensive but I always tips atleast $10 on my $20-40 doordash orders now so it gets atleast picked up
  • maxerickson 4y ago
    That doesn't seem unreasonable. I don't think I've ordered delivery in like the last 2 years (when someone else was ordering and I got something). It's like 8 minutes to all the places that deliver here though, so it's worth picking it up to have it fresher.
• plasma_beam 4y ago
  Was really shocked to go through my normal Starbucks drive thru recently and was verbally asked “are you going to leave a tip?” and they thrust the card reader in my face which starts with a $1 tip as the first option you see on the left hand side. You have to hunt for the “No”. Of course Starbucks knows their target, those that feel too embarrassed if they don’t leave a $1 tip. (I paid). I tell myself, not again. Then I was back there today and paid it again. They got me. Not again.
  • kube-system 4y ago
    If you pay with a Starbucks card through the app, it’s just a quick scan, and it asks in the app after the fact.
  • tenebrisalietum 4y ago
    Your community may have a local coffee shop that either doesn't do these shenanigans or will deliver service worthy of a tip.
  • anthonypasq 4y ago
    Jeez, are people really this spineless? I'm assuming you also get roped into paying for some random dude's mixtape outside a grocery store?
• plantwallshoe 4y ago
  I’ve implemented a personal policy to make it easier for myself and reduce bias: Full waiter experience (seated, handed menu, food brought to table, plate cleared) gets 20%. If the level of service is less than that, the percentage starts to go down proportionally. Counter service is flat-rate $1 per person served. This is the same every time regardless of quality of service (unless something truly malicious happens, but I’ve never experienced that.)
  • tptacek 4y ago
    If the level of service declines below "full waiter experience", likely so too do the prices.
    • pclmulqdq 4y ago
      And so should the tips. It makes no sense to tip someone who just hands you something from behind a counter.
      • tptacek 4y ago
        That's my point: as the price declines, so too does the amount you pay in tips.
        • pclmulqdq 4y ago
          I also think the proportion of the tip should decline. They are doing a lot less work to give you the food, disproportionate with the small decrease in cost.
          • tptacek 4y ago
            It's not clear to me why the proportion should decline alongside the price, since the decline in price also reduces compensation to the server, and a single prevailing tip rate is more convenient to consumers than a floating rate, but I don't care enough to make a stink about it.
• AussieWog93 4y ago
  They started this in Australia just before the pandemic, but I haven't seen it since we reopened. I suspect enough people, when prompted with these uncomfortable requests, paid it reluctantly then just never came back. At least, I know I've never been back to any business that asked for or expected a tip. I'm sure this showed up on the metrics as an immediate spike in revenue, followed by a large downturn some months later. Honestly can't think of a quicker way to ruin your business.
• xiphias2 4y ago
  “Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed” It is funny how words change meanings depending on which meaning is better for the person who says it.
• moomin 4y ago
  I mean, the US could just get a decent welfare state like a grown-up country, but instead you have the worst paid members of society depending on tips.
  • 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    No thanks. I don't want a welfare state and I don't want to tip either.
    • ASalazarMX 4y ago
      You already have a welfare state, but it goes to businessmen instead. The more money you have, the easier it is to pay fewer taxes. Money want to trickle up.
      • DrThunder 4y ago
        Give us an example of how higher taxes have benefited the low class. Maybe you could use a high tax haven like California? I think you've made the mistaken assumption that government has your best interests at heart. Has the government trickled down that tax money to worthy causes? Do you expect that same government who gives these wealthy businessmen so much to suddenly invest MORE tax money wisely? It seems to me that we have constant tax increases with no benefit except to pad elitists pockets in Washington.
      • maerF0x0 4y ago
        I agree with 2OEH8eoCRo0 . When I say I do not want a welfare state, I mean for businessmen too.
  • kofejnik 4y ago
    waiters aren't the worst paid workers by far
    • seizethecheese 4y ago
      Thanks to tips they make roughly 3x what the back of house staff make and their work is much easier (I have experience).
• Invictus0 4y ago
  Around me the restaurants are still doing "economic recovery fees" and "kitchen appreciation fees". I just tell them I'm not paying it and to take it off the bill.
• pugworthy 4y ago
  I most certainly get paid a lot more than the person behind the counter does. If it's a person who did something helpful and the person gets the $, then I'm happy to tip. If they can give me some attention (e.g., not chatting away with someone behind the counter while I just stand there), I'm happy to tip.
  • Symbiote 4y ago
    You also get paid more than the staff at Walmart. Do you tip there?
    • pugworthy 4y ago
      No. I don't go there, and I'm hard of hearing and usually use self checkout any time I can. And perhaps you're perceiving my post as being supportive of "tip culture", whatever that is. I don't condone tips, but I realize it's more effective for me to "help" those who live partially on tips than to try and change that culture. I go to a few select places I like, and I tip well there. I also put money to artist and others who's work I appreciate. I don't want my name in their credits, I don't want a shout out, I just want them to keep doing what they do because they are good at it.
• godelski 4y ago
  One thing I've never understood is the argument for tipping. It has always been "because servers are being paid less than minimum wage." Which the issue with that is that that varies state by state. Most west coast states do not have a separate tipped wage[0]. So the question is, why do we tip at all on the west coast[1]? Worse, it seems to be expanding and increasing in size[2] The followup argument is often "well they are still being under paid." While I can buy this argument, I do not think the solution is tipping. Because if they are underpaid so are non-tipped jobs like the fast food worker, janitor, grocery worker, or movie theater employee. All tipping does is divide these people and reduce the pool for a larger collective to bargain for a higher minimum wage. I feel we have this collective belief that tipping is bad (it sure confuses my foreign friends, who sometimes get dirty looks because they didn't tip), but once we've effectively created the criteria necessary to abolish it[3], we still maintained the cultural aspect of it: that we __need__ to tip (often thinking we'll get our food spat in if we don't). I've had others get upset with me for these opinions (I do tip btw) but I don't understand how we can think tipping shouldn't exist but continue in this direction. It's also interesting that in early America we thought of tipping as akin to bribery (I still believe this and I think this is common). It also has a history with slavery[4] [0] https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped [1] Obviously the argument no longer holds outside Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington [2] When I was a kid (some 20 years ago) 10% was common for a standard tip. Now most places have an 18%/20%/25% option on screens. Some even higher! The second image in the article even shows a 30% tip [3] I wouldn't completely abolish it, but I'd say it shouldn't be a standard. [4] https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee
  • tptacek 4y ago
    Tipping is a system in which customers explicitly, optionally, and variably share some of the cost of labor. It has the features of allowing individual patrons to modulate the labor subsidy they provide, based on their current price sensitivity, the value they place on warm fuzzies (don't dismiss this!), the relationship they want to build with the business, and the service they perceive themselves to be getting. You can't do all these things with prices; prices apply universally across customers, and for the most part in the hospitality industry they can't float (see airline tickets as an example of a floating price, and the sheer loathing it creates in the customer base). Later I also should have added, and probably led with, the fact that tipping addresses a big agent-principal problem in hospitality: in restaurants where servers rely on tips, their incentives are strongly aligned with those of customers; without tips, virtually all the incentives are aligned with that of management.
• jmugan 4y ago
  I'd much rather pay one (higher) price than to have to negotiate an individual transaction with each person who works at the place.
• yieldcrv 4y ago
  We can regulate this in a variety of ways The point of sale system can be shamed or regulated, or have codes for the merchant type that dictates whether they have the option of doing a compulsory tipping screen The payment processor can dictate all or cut them off, payment processor can also be regulated from on high We can also make viral articles shaming a random shop for their behavior. This is not normal now but we can make it so. We can realistically address the conflict of interest from service workers wanting more tips that are shaming consumers for not tipping a certain amount. We pretend that because they’re closer to the environment then their thoughts should be more privileged, when it is so convenient to just gamble on getting more tips that its a conflict of interest. And of course the crazier thought of raising wages, but we should stick to things we can control
• tkuraku 4y ago
  I think tipping should be outlawed. The price should be the price. Workers should not be subject to inconsistent pay for the same amount of work. In addition it gets rid of any bias in wages (more attractive people or people of different ethnicities might get higher tips for the same work).
  • seizethecheese 4y ago
    Nothing should be outlawed unless it causes a reasonable amount of harm. This mostly doesn’t. First, it’s just semantics. Second, you don’t have to buy again.
    • Fauntleroy 4y ago
      The tipping system causes harm.
      • seizethecheese 4y ago
        It causes a minimal amount of harm. What proportion of the tip requests you get are from your first time buying from the establishment? It’s very low. After that, you know there’s a tip request and choose to return.
      • DrThunder 4y ago
        Provide evidence based examples please.
        • Dylan16807 4y ago
          https://www.eater.com/a/case-against-tipping https://www.eater.com/a/case-against-tipping here's some
          • DrThunder 4y ago
            Propaganda aligning with a certain modern day cult and nothing but subjective anecdotes isn't proof of anything. First of all you'd have to PROVE the tipping difference is due to racism.... something this article fails completely at. Let's assume that people are actually tipping "people of color" worse. Do you think getting rid of tipping is somehow fixing this perceived racism? If so, why do you believe you can legislate a personality trait out of people?
• crtified 4y ago
  Is this a thing in countries other than the USA?
  • nayuki 4y ago
    The tipping situation is numerically very similar in Canada, unsurprisingly. But at least in Canada, the waiter brings a wireless point-of-sale machine to the table for you to pay. Whereas in American, they take your credit card all the way to the cash register (unsafe!), bring the receipt to your table, make you write the tip and total on the receipt, and collect the receipt.
    • kylehotchkiss 4y ago
      There’s handheld machines now at American restaurants which have a very bold tip screen. At the one I see it at, the waiter (who usually only took our order, didn’t even fill drinks, bring food, etc) holds it towards me and says “tip?” instead of the common “it’ll ask you a few questions”. Maybe it’s a clover POS system?
      • nayuki 4y ago
        Handheld POS terminals exist in America but I found them to be rare. When I was in New Orleans last year and went to a bunch of restaurants, 9 out of 10 of them had the traditional opaque payment system. Only at one restaurant did I I experience the waiter bringing the wireless POS to my table.
  • Pxtl 4y ago
    Yes. Here in Canada it's a couple percent points less (15-20%, I here it's higher there) and servers have a proper minimum wage, but tipping is still expected here. And the pandemic has shifted things and now everybody's got tip options on the takeout touchpad... I'm iffy on that. It was one thing when everything was shut down and so takeout was a fallback for restaurants with a lot of staff, but that's over.
  • kiwijamo 4y ago
    I've only ever seen this in the US. Not in Europe, Asia nor Oceania.
• tmnvix 4y ago
  I've never experienced the US tipping culture, but have been aware of it for a long time. Am I remembering correctly that the 'standard' tip has been increasing over the past few decades? I don't mean just the dollar amount, but the percentage that is expected. Why has this happened? Is there some standard explanation or justification given for this?
  • hprotagonist 4y ago
    yes: restaurant workers are increasingly fucked and low income.
  • noah_buddy 4y ago
    I think it’s gone up because of the cultural marking of “cheap tippers.” You see it lambasted in movies and TV (in Reservoir Dogs it’s even a significant point of foreshadowing). The scale as I understand it is: For delivery, tip 10-20% on the subtotal based on the size of the order and the service/delivery time (and perhaps your relationship with the deliverer or business, in cases where they have a dedicated pool). Often these people live off tips and their wage doesn’t even cover gas/maintenance on their own vehicles. Dining in? Outside of very bad service, I’ll tip 18-20% of the subtotal. Service industry is hard and there’s a lot going on. Even with a bad experience, sometimes it’s not your waitstaff’s fault and they’re trying to roll with it themselves. Take out/coffee/etc: tip 10-15% based on your relationship to the business and price. If I’m going to a pricier coffee place, I may tip less because I do have a upper limit on what I’ll tip for anything paltry (a buck or two for a latte and a muffin). Moving guys/tradesmen: May slip em a ten if the job was a pain or they were real punctual.
• deleted 4y ago
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• hkarthik 4y ago
  I wonder if the POS companies take a share of the tip as part of the total transactions flowing through their systems. Then they'd be incentivized to show the tip screen by default, and maybe jack up the default amount to 20-25%.
  • justinpowers 4y ago
    Most POS systems do not charge per transaction, neither by count nor dollar amount. It’s usually an upfront or flat monthly fee, based on number of terminals, level of service and feature set.
• fishtoaster 4y ago
  I quite dislike the tip system, but feel I have no good way to protest it. I could "just not tip," but that mostly harms the people who have the least power in the situation (the waiter) rather than the people who can change it (management). Instead, I feel like the only ethical option available to me is to preferentially frequent no-tip restaurants. Unfortunately there aren't too many of those and although I hate the tip system, quality of food is usually more important except at the margins. It seems like the sort of thing where maybe there's a regulatory answer, but I'm hard-pressed to think of one. California already takes the reasonable step of mandating minimum wage before tips, but that doesn't seem to remove the tip expectation.
  • blahblah1234567 4y ago
    I think tipping waiters in restaurants, at the end of a meal is fine. It's the request for a tip at practically every cafe or donut shop, where a person is simply pouring drip coffee or placing an item in a bag, for to-go/carry out, which gets to me. Or the expectation to tip for a re-fill of a coffee mug, at a cafe. It's not service-- it's dispensing a product. I am starting to wonder how much baristas make, for example, if it's $10-$15 per hour, plus 15 customers per hour (x$1-$2 tip each)... that's potentially $50-60k+ per year. Which is more than many teachers and healthcare workers make-- people with degrees, training, and who provide a skilled, emotionally-involved service.
    • panda88888 4y ago
      The logical conclusion is that we should tip the teachers daily based on how little Johnny felt the educational experience was for the day /s
  • maerF0x0 4y ago
    > but that mostly harms the people who have the least power in the situation They have the ability to choose another job (250k new jobs are created each month!) and they have the ability to negotiate/complain to their manager. Just dont be surprised when the coffee shop starts to charge $10 for a drip. 50c of beans, 50c of hot water and $8 labor.
• amelius 4y ago
  What's next? The coffee machine down the hall asking for a tip?
• jackson1442 4y ago
  I frequently see tipped employees argue _in favor_ of tipping because it allows them to have a higher take-home than they normally could get at an hourly job. I think tipped establishments could have success by removing tipping but offering commission to their formerly-tipped staff. It's built into the price (bonus points if they add sales tax as well), so you just pay what it says on the menu, and the servers stay happy. Or you can just pay a good hourly wage, but no one really seems interested in making that happen.
• FpUser 4y ago
  I very rarely visit places where I have to tip so my sanity is kept in check. The whole idea of tipping however ruffles my feathers. Just give me price and fuck off. I did not come to the place to think how much should I tip and feel guilty if I do not want to tip for shitty service / food. I do give generously to homeless though.
• kderbyma 4y ago
  I started tipping for a while, and I think I will stop unless I am being served sitting down. I see no benefit from the tipping, and the staff are not thankful nor do they seem to notice. and in most cases they do not do anything at all to benefit the tips..
• syngrog66 4y ago
  Not exactly tipping but very similar: Panera became very annoying in recent years by hassling me every time I ordered at the cashier about whether I wanted to "round up" to ostensibly donate to some charity or other. Here's my take: I might already be doing charity work or donations elsewhere, and I'm at my limit. And I went to Panera for food and a place to sit a while. If Panera's ownership or rich executives want to donate somewhere as individuals, do that. If they want to make the biz itself donate, do that. If you want to pass this cost on to customers then simply build it into the pricing. But DO NOT hassle each customer and waste everyone's time with cognitive clutter. If anything it feels like a form of intentional guilt-tripping or griefing. What Panera offers isnt unique enough that a person cant go choose an alternate service. Anyway, not a rant on tippping itself, but a very similar structure. I believe tipping too should just be built into the prices a business charges. Massively simplifies each transaction and reduces griefing and psychological games. (Really, its another case of a more general rule, imo: simplify, simplify, simplify...)
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  • dbalatero 4y ago
    I believe this is a corporate tax game they are partially playing, as they can write off your charitable donation as their tax benefit. (Never round up, just donate directly to charities you choose.)
• zzzeek 4y ago
  I can't believe these comments, what is wrong with you people? if you are a highly paid technology worker, when you go to service establishments where people are working hourly and are desperate to work 40-50 hour weeks just to pay their rent and feed their kids, you *tip*. *generously*. the US has an insanely out of control income inequality issue that is very intractible and structural. If you are so fortunate as to find yourself on the winning end of it, as is the case for a vast portion of Hacker News members, yes, (WHILE SAID STRUCTURAL INEQUALITY CONTINUES TO NOT BE SOLVED BY OTHER MEANS), you should be transferring to the members of your local community who are not so fortunate (AND ARE EXPLICITLY ASKING FOR TIPS AND/OR WORKING WHERE TIPPING IS CUSTOMARY) and you should be happy to do it. hi - not as *a subsitute for raising the mimimum wage*, of course not, of COURSE wages should be raised. of COURSE if everyone were paid fairly in the first place, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. however, at the moment, the federal minimum wage hasn't been raised in 14 YEARS, so FOR THE MOMENT, until said inequality issue can be structurally modified, workers really could use tips. that's why they are asking for them.
  • godelski 4y ago
    I'd rather just increase the minimum wage. Why do this pick and choose thing? If the minimum is not enough then it isn't enough for __everyone__.
    • tptacek 4y ago
      Servers in fine dining restaurants make much more than the minimum wage on tips. $25-$30/hr isn't a crazy high amount for a server to be making; $50-60k/yr is also a thing.
      • djur 4y ago
        A friend of mine told me flat out that although he thinks tip abolition is the right thing to do policywise, he and his waiter friends personally hope it doesn't happen because it would effectively result in a pay cut for them (even though it would probably increase wages for BOH workers, waiters at low-volume restaurants, etc.).
• deleted 4y ago
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• Pxtl 4y ago
  Well, during COVID shutdowns I got into the habit of paying sit-down tips to takeout staff and 20% to patios because I knew how servers were suffering at the time, while I got to be a "laptop person" at home. But now since there's been no formal "end" to the pandemic, it's hard to say when/if you change that.
• ntr-- 4y ago
  > Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed Here in AU we call that "wages". Having to do quick maths while under social pressure and the threat of having your service quality degraded to make up for an employer or state being unwilling to pay workers enough to live might be called "coercion", but certainly it is externalising costs onto the customer.
  • Insanity 4y ago
    As a European living in Canada, the tipping culture took some time to get used to. It's such a stupid/bad system.
    • JimtheCoder 4y ago
      Am Canadian, can confirm... I do wish there was a way to tip the drivers who deliver my Amazon Prime stuff, though. I don't want to tip someone who presses a few buttons on a screen to take my food order, that they usually mess up and sometimes add on a free side of bad attitude. I would like an easy way to tip the guy who is trudging through the snow to deliver my 2KG jar of peanut butter at 9:30pm in January. I like this guy...
      • Insanity 4y ago
        Found this after a quick google but can't vouch for it: https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/shopping/you-can-tip-your-amazon-driver-through-alexa https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/shopping/you-can-... EDIT: seems like a limited program. But a more permanent one would be good
      • jmugan 4y ago
        Wouldn't that just continue to expand a bad practice? If drivers got tips, Amazon would lower their wages, and we'd just have another domain where we have to make extra decisions.
        • JimtheCoder 4y ago
• temporallobe 4y ago
  If we’re bot careful, this could “tip” in the wrong direction, where consumers will actively rebel against tipping, and I am nearly there. I was just in Europe and it was refreshing to eat in restaurants and never have to worry about tipping. If a meal was €50, that’s exactly what I paid and not a cent more. Even though prices in many places were more expensive than in the US (also considering the USD to EUR exchange rate), eating out ended up being a lot cheaper than in the US in the end.
• jacktribe 4y ago
  I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Also, some customers seem to think that the screen froze at the very end because it didn't ask for a tip. While it has been strange to see some customer's determination to leave a tip, I think overall it was well received by the great majority of people that just didn't say anything about it and made a mental note that the prices they see on the menu is what they'll actually end up paying. We will probably need to highlight that we pay a higher wage for baristas & cooks to account for the lack of tips, and give customers an option to donate to a charity if they still wish to part with additional money. I do believe that the incentive tips provide for employees to "act" friendly to customers can be transferred over into a review/feedback program, which is what we will be testing out. If customers rate their order and interaction with the barista to be satisfactory, a bonus payment will be made to the baristas on shift. Once we introduce this, I'll share the results.
  • bradwood 4y ago
    Japan has been doing it like this for years. And it's much better. Pay people properly, and encourage them to be the best they can be (even for jobs that are so-called "unskilled") and then everyone's a winner.
    • Renaud 4y ago
      Not just Japan. Basically most of the world except Noth America pay their waiters wages that don't depend on tips. Sure some places allow additional tipping, but it's not a mandatory fee and the workers don't have to get it to make a living.
      • jandrewrogers 4y ago
        The mandatory minimum wage where I live is $18.69/hr, which is higher than the median wage in many European countries. Any tips or mandatory service charges are always in addition to this and many waiters make more than the minimum wage. Replacing tipping with a 20% mandatory service charge -- tried many times here -- results in the employees earning less money, empirically. Eliminating tipping is unpopular with employees since it is effectively a pay cut. Proponents of "no tipping" policies in the US are not going to be successful until they address the elephant in the room of reduced pay for employees. Unlike in Europe, US employees know how much money they earn with tipping.
• eweise 4y ago
  I generally won't tip If the POS screen start at 20% and makes me do a "custom" amount to leave less. Its slightly embarrassing hunting around to give a 0 tip but maybe they'll eventually get the hint.
• justinpowers 4y ago
  This may just be a side-effect of the insurgence of new POS systems and customer-facing systems. Many of the newer POS systems were first developed with the hospitality industry in mind. In those cases, tipping is on by default. These POS systems have since expanded into retail and convenience stores, leaving tipping on by default. The shop owners have little incentive to turn it off, or may not even know how to turn it off. Additionally most older POS systems were not operated by the customer and so did not display set percentages. They relied upon manual input based on a signed receipt. So percentage norms were mostly word-of-mouth. Nowadays, with customer-facing POS systems, it’s easier to just provide a percentage button. And the owner or manager or even the lowly register attendant, can adjust as needed. And of course, higher defaults are better for all of them (within reason).
• refurb 4y ago
  How many people on HN have worked tip based jobs? Clearly not many based on the comments.
• Jedd 4y ago
  One Australian's anecdata follows. I hate tipping. It's an unwanted cognitive intrusion with no upside for me whatsoever. It also reflects a broken (wage / reward) system, and obviously my preference is they fix that. In Australia I may tip - iff the service is really good. And only at sit-down / eat-in restaurants. Cafes, cabs, ubers, couriers, hotels, etc - these are not tipping places. If I'm tipping at a restaurant, in addition to exceptional service / food, it'll be a) only if I feel there's zero guilt or implied obligation to tip, b) 5-10%, and c) cash (ie. not via the EFT / POS device).
  • barbazoo 4y ago
    It's very reasonable to apply this mindset to North America and you don't have to feel bad about it either.
  • ergvgdvgrd 4y ago
    The rule I was taught growing up in USA was 15% and it was really only for sit down restaurants where waiters served you at your table. Now, tipping in USA has metastasized, but I haven't changed. You want to play a guilt trip game after every business engagement? You'll lose against me. Tip for pouring a cup of drip coffee?---nah. Tip for making fast food? Nope. I will not enable the tip-everywhere culture.
  • yawnxyz 4y ago
    I'm always put off by a server hearing my American accent and insisting / guilt-tripping that I add a tip, thinking I'm a tourist in Sydney... Yes I do tip sometimes, but only if the service has been fun / great. So off-putting when a place tries to squeeze a tip if they think you don't live here.
  • JenrHywy 4y ago
    As another Australian, tipping and tax are the worst part of traveling to the US (other than maybe the toilets....). I don't really mind what the final price is, but I really would like to know it up front without having to do a bunch of calculations, which vary depending on which state I'm in.
  • koala_man 4y ago
• 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  Let's start a no-tip revolution. Everyone stop tipping. People that rely on tips will lose their minds and push for change.
• dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  I'm not a fan of tipping but I'm very much a fan of the incentive alignment between the person providing the service and the person paying for the service it produces.
• kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  I went to a grocery store, and purchased some items. Tip options: 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%. No thank you.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• floren 4y ago
  I assume some of this comes from small businesses getting a Square terminal and thinking "Tips? Yeah sure, I'll check that box, can't hurt!". It can hurt. If I'm prompted to tip [15/20/25]% just because somebody grabbed a donut out of the rack and dumped it in a paper bag, I think less of the place and I'm less likely to come back. Thought: Somebody should cook up an "AR" app that reads a menu and adds 20% tip plus local sales tax to every price. I'm just as guilty as anybody of visiting e.g. European countries and thinking everything's expensive, but that's because the prices on the menu are exactly what you'll pay, not 70% of what you'll actually pay. Yes I realize I can just do basic mental math, but not everybody can do it, and it'd be kinda neat to point my phone at a menu and see all the prices instantly reflect what I'll actually have to shell out.
  • Psychlist 4y ago
    As a tourist it sucks though. You have to buy something to see the various taxes, then hope that they're the same for everything. Then you move on in your trip and have to repeat the process. Just advertise the actual price, dammit. And keep tipping for "OMG, this person was wonderful" not "this is 90% of their income".
• akomtu 4y ago
  Tips is a way to advertise false price, attract more customers, and then exploit their guilt to charge the full price. It's telling that food service businesses arent viable without this sort of lying.
• borroka 4y ago
  I have been living in the US for years, but I am not from the US. Over the past two years, I have greatly reduced the purchase of coffee and the like in coffee shops and the times when I eat outside because I am turned off by the tipping and the murkiness of the final price. When I see $10 as the price of the item I am buying, I expect it to be the final price. Instead, surprise! I have to add taxes, tips, and the cost of the air I breathe. On the one hand, I don't want to be "culturally inconsiderate" and not tip; on the other hand, I don't have the same bovine acceptance toward money and spending issues that unfortunately many Americans seem to have -- see, for example, health care spending. I have therefore decided not to contribute to something that makes me uncomfortable. I wish many more people would say no.
• riddleronroof 4y ago
  So it used to be 18% off the base. But credit card receipts show 18% off the price + tax, effectively 20-25% Most don’t do the math, just pay.
• johnp314 4y ago
  A few years back I attended the RSA Conference in San Francisco and stayed at an AirBnB in Haight-Ashbury district. I discovered a nearby restaurant, Zazie, that advertised on their web site they were "proud to be tip free" so I tried it. I had dinner there more than once over my week stay in SF and it was so nice to get a credit card receipt with no space for tip and a reminder from the server that no tip was wanted. The service was great and the prices did not seem excessive compared to other places. Many of the comments here have discussed how without tips paying a living wage would compel higher prices. I ask, what's the difference between a higher up-front price on the menu for the item or a lower price with the expectation that at payment you'll pay 20% more? I prefer the simplicity and less pressure of a bill with no space for "tip", that the price you see on the menu is the price you will pay when finished eating.
  • maerF0x0 4y ago
    And the advantage of no tips is a-holes like me cant game the system for a 20% discount.
  • ciupicri 4y ago
    > what's the difference between a higher up-front price on the menu for the item or a lower price with the expectation that at payment you'll pay 20% more? Taxes.
• brightlancer 4y ago
  I like tipping at bars and restaurants: it eliminates the middle-man between me and the person providing the service, and I can reward (or consequently punish) servers who provide good or great (or poor) service. But in other cases, I see the tip line and click Zero. It makes the math easy.
• kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  I don't hate the 10% "service charge" fees I see abroad. It's automatically added, can be removed if you really have an issue, and 10% is a fair charge for being waited on. Wish payment terminals could move towards this. No guilt 10% charge, bury the option to increase it for those who want, and remove it entirely if you're unsatisfied with service.
• freitasm 4y ago
  "“Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed,” said Schenker, who’s been working in the service industry for roughly 18 years." Yes, this would be what some call "wages". It's a terrible system. People are not valued by their employers. Employers distance themselves from employees.
• friend_and_foe 4y ago
  The problem is payment terminals have it in the software and most places don't turn it off because "why not?" I have a set of rules, I will not tip, regardless the social consequences, if a drink was not poured, food was not delivered to my door, my hair wasn't cut, a hostess didn't seat me and a waiter didn't come around and hand me a menu and ask me what I want, or someone didn't roller skate to my car. And then, the tip starts at 15%, it goes up for above and beyond service and goes down for sub par service. Everywhere else I proudly push no.
• major505 4y ago
  30% tip? More than 10% tip is extortion, not tip.
• alxmng 4y ago
  Tipping in the US isn’t tipping. It’s a fee that’s not included in the price. You’re expected to “tip” a certain amount and employees can get quite upset if you don’t.
  • mbg721 4y ago
    But over that expected amount, it's still tipping. It hasn't gotten too much out of control, except in Vegas.
• soupfordummies 4y ago
  I’ve started asking if they get to keep the tip. Surprisingly, bartenders told me they don’t get the tip at: An MLB stadium 2 large outdoor LiveNation venues
• cmason 4y ago
  I have a personal rule that in order to get a tip you must do something (anything really) that is not simply giving or dispensing me an object that I paid for otherwise. If someone cooked or baked it or brewed it or pulled a shot or whatever great I’ll leave a tip. If it’s just handing me something or pouring into an cup and taking my money I have no problem hitting no tip.
• tevon 4y ago
  Most people wouldn't care if it wasn't for the shady things the payment terminals do. Like reordering the tip % to either be reverse of what is expected or random. Additionally they wouldn't care is the % was standard. From left to right: 15%, 18%, 20%. Leave it there and stop using dark patterns.
• aksss 4y ago
  We all started tipping high during COVID, and everyone on the receiving end got too used to it. What was done out of generosity turned fueled a new entitlement.
• jrockway 4y ago
  > Clarissa Moore, a 35-year-old who works as a supervisor at a utility company in Pennsylvania, said even her mortgage company has been asking for tips lately What sort of mortgage activity involves asking for a tip? The article didn't really go into this, but I'm very curious.
• dcormier 4y ago
  Today I ordered a physical item from an online store. The checkout page asked if I wanted to tip the employees, with buttons for preset percentages, and an option to enter a custom amount. I considered aborting my order.
• rr808 4y ago
  I've started leaving bad reviews for restaurants who a semi-agressive on asking for tips. Its becoming the worst part of the experience.
• post_break 4y ago
  I got asked for a tip at an automatic car wash, because the guy was there wouldn't let me put the card into it myself, he wanted to push the touch screen buttons. I looked at him and said no. I hate tips, they aren't tips any more, they are subsidized payroll. I almost never eat at sit down places any more. Pick up orders? No tip. I will tip for a pizza delivery though, it's the one time I feel like it's deserved due to the hell they go through, but it's the exception not the rule for me.
  • jmckib 4y ago
    He may not have even worked at the car wash. That’s a pretty common scam among panhandlers.
    • post_break 4y ago
      Oh he worked there, uniform and all.
  • dyno12345 4y ago
    I got prompted for a tip at an auto mechanic at one point
    • post_break 4y ago
      I would only tip an auto mechanic if it were a mom and pop shop and I asked them to do something not the norm to my vehicle.
• paulpauper 4y ago
  God, I hate it. 20%, 25% , 40%, or none? How about stop being so greedy.
• biglost 4y ago
  Tipping is an abuse of workers. https://www.flanlate.com/2020/11/dueno-del-baco-explica-por-que-en-su.html?m=1 https://www.flanlate.com/2020/11/dueno-del-baco-explica-por-... Chilean restaurant without that tipping shit
• TheDesolate0 4y ago
  [dead]
• paxys 4y ago
  My personal rule is – if I didn't tip for something 5 years ago I don't tip for it today. Restaurants, taxis and food delivery make the cut, as do most personal services like cleaning and haircuts. Self checkouts, grab and go items, food trucks, fast food, online shopping, convenience stores, grocery stores and lots more all get $0 extra from me with absolutely no guilt. Oh and the default 20/25/30% options all come way down as well. If others want to get socially shamed into it, well that's fine by me.
• photochemsyn 4y ago
  The solution to eliminating tipping while also incentivizing servers and others to provide excellent service seems pretty obvious - raise prices by 20% on every transaction in the service industry, and then the employee gets that percentage. This is good for the business as it encourages the server to provide good service (as long at they clearly understand the importance of the return customer), and also rewards them when the business gets really busy (the result of continually providing good service & good products). It does eliminate the ability of the customer to play the role of generous or stingy aristocrat, but if they don't like it, they can just not come back.
  • maerF0x0 4y ago
    interestingly we actually wouldnt need to raise prices 20%. Some customers do not tip. Some groups of people tip far less, so actually the increase likely is less than 20%.
• xyzelement 4y ago
  I personally love tipping. When you can tell that someone actually makes a real effort to take care of the customer and do their job well, there's nothing better than being able to make their day (or at least, make it better and show your appreciation) by going above and beyond. Most of the situations in which you tip are already signs of you not being too frugal. If you are eating in a restaurant, buying coffee out, valeting your car - you are not penny pinching so you can give someone a few extra bucks without breaking your bank. Of course you have to be culturally sensitive. In the US tipping is expected and appreciated. Other cultures don't expect it and would think it's rude.
• crossroadsguy 4y ago
  I’ll pick some examples from the article. > Schenker says it’s hard to sympathize with consumers who are able to afford pricey coffee drinks but complain about tipping. How will it reflect upon tipper if they in turn judge Mr Schenker for being in this position in the first place? > Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed This just sounds ignorant because the comment is pointing to the wrong entity - as in “who owes”. This is barking up the wrong tree. But society has enabled and allowed business establishments to create a situation like this. At the same time this is also entitled — the thought that the tipper is supposed to pay for service provider’s bills above the cost of the item purchased. This is sad and outrageous. A person is driven to think like this. Is it society, or the culture and tradition? Or the businesses collectively doing this? > Moore said she believes consumers shouldn’t be asked to tip nearly everywhere they go — and it shouldn’t be something that’s expected of them. This is what I do. I leave a tip if I feel like. I exclusively do not tip if an establishment points to it, or asks me to tip. I say a simple no and that saying no is difficult but I always say no in this situation. The last thing I want is this outrageous tipping culture, especially like USA, where I live.
  • silisili 4y ago
    Completely agreed. Tipping by definition is paying for good service - what you feel they've earned. Not what they're 'owed.'
• eslaught 4y ago
  I recently saw a "3% cost of living" charge at a restaurant (in California). This same restaurant provided suggested tips of 18, 20, and (I think) 25%. At a certain level I think this is just dishonesty. They want to raise prices, but they know some people will stop coming, so they try to hide it in extra fees instead. I don't mind tipping per se, but the hidden fees and tip inflation make me think that if this keeps going, we may need to pass some price transparency laws.
  • PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    It's an extra fee, sure, but the salient quality is that it's an optional fee, which a price increase is not. I'm not condoning it, just clarifying what strikes me as the central point.
    • rhplus 4y ago
      OP states that it was a non-optional fee, a hidden surcharge.
      • PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
        OP discussed an apparently mandatory "cost of living fee" and tipping, which is optional. The overall discussion based on TFA is about tipping.
  • simonebrunozzi 4y ago
    Give them a 10% tip. Write why. It will make them think.
    • loeg 4y ago
      Zero. Don't reward it.
  • bbarn 4y ago
    Just ate at a place in CA with an 18% automatic gratuity added, and a second line for "additional gratuity". Reminds me why I do all the cooking in my house.
• biglost 4y ago
  https://www.dt.gob.cl/portal/1628/w3-article-109452.html https://www.dt.gob.cl/portal/1628/w3-article-109452.html Tipping is almost mandatory by law in Chile (southamerica), it’s really hard to just say no
• iansinnott 4y ago
  Something I don't see mentioned often is how much TIME tipping takes. I recently visited Australia and realized that each transaction at a cafe/restaurant was very quick, perhaps an entire 10x quicker than an equivalent transaction in the US. You just tap your card and go. Transaction time at cafes can compound against people waiting in line as well, especially if the customer wants to tip but the default on-screen amount is too high. Would be curious to know how much time is collectively spent on these minor transaction decisions in countries with tips. I'm sure it's substantial.
• ForestCritter 4y ago
  If you want to see tipping go away, then the lower + tip minimum wages would need to go also. Some states it's as low as 2.39 an hour...
  • mikhael28 4y ago
    That would be great! Who wants to keep those, apart from restaurant owners?
• xwdv 4y ago
  I’ve stopped leaving tips for anything that isn’t a sit down restaurant with a waiter. These retail iPads asking for tips are ridiculous. At first it felt awkward to zero out the tip, but soon it got better, and now I zero it out with no mercy. I recommend you try it.
• wiradikusuma 4y ago
  "..says it’s hard to sympathize with consumers who are able to afford pricey coffee drinks but complain about tipping.." Hmm.. wat? I don't drink "pricey coffee drinks" (I'm cheap), but I think everyone can do whatever they want with their hard-earned money. They should complain to their employer. If it doesn't work, to government as policy maker. As mentioned at the end of the article, "If you work for a company, it’s that company’s job to pay you for doing work for them"
• baron816 4y ago
  Guys, please tip your AP News reporter. These people work long hours for little pay. It’s also a good idea to tip your HN moderator, and the SREs keeping HN up and running.
• sershe 4y ago
  I like tipping (high almost regardless of service quality, as long as it's not aggressively bad) to support the workers specifically. I think service workers/low-level contractor crew workers/etc. have one of the highest "people who I admire" x "people who don't get enough money" scores. So it's a small wealth transfer - like taxes, but instead of being completely wasted or given to whoever, the best people get it. Sure you could also try to change the "unfair" world. Or you could just give people money :P
• ugh123 4y ago
  On a recent Disney cruise, I was greeted at the end of my trip with a "receipt" under the door for over $250 in mandatory tips for our 5 night cruise. Even the "head server" (who only did so much as greeted us at the table each night) got $80 of that. Such BS.
  • parallel 4y ago
    I think "mandatory tips" is just another name for a bill.
• jurassic 4y ago
  I pride myself on being a big tipper in restaurants with table service, but when the point-of-sale prompts me for a 25% tip on a counter-service transaction before I have even been served I balk. Why should I pay so much extra for service when all they did was hand me my food/coffee/whatever? I recently got into a big argument with my wife over whether and how much we should have tipped a "valet" who didn't fetch the car and just handed me my keys.
• rhplus 4y ago
  As a point of reference, Ross tips $20 on $200 in a nice restaurant, after Rachel’s dad tips “like 4%” in a season 3 episode of Friends: https://youtu.be/gOxG6HSicwk https://youtu.be/gOxG6HSicwk So we can say that 15% was more than generous in 1996 according to the NY/LA TV writer set.
  • GenerocUsername 4y ago
    Agreed. I remember the days of 10% being standard. It's the stripe/square payment machines that started offering 18%, 20%, or other.
• c3534l 4y ago
  I'd love for us to abolish tipping, but I don't really get a say in it, because these are expected wages and I can't just say "no, I want to keep my money." Its a social norm, not something we all voted on.
• ilyt 4y ago
  Waiters need a fucking union. Tips are pretty much used exclusively to fuck over workers
• bbarn 4y ago
  The greatest scam perpetrated by tipping was the idea of it being a percentage of the cost of the product you ordered. This is why tipping still exists in America. Because there are urban restaurant workers, and busy bartenders being tipped absurd prices not because of their stellar service, but because they are lucky enough to work in a place with high prices and the cultural percentage mindset benefits them so much they will fight against a "living wage" because they are making more than that, and most of the time, not reporting it as income. It's inequality disguised as being the "hard worker" when in reality, the shitty diner selling 8$ meals has servers working just as hard, or harder, than the upscale place selling 50$ meals.
• Night_Thastus 4y ago
  I think it's a symptom of a bigger problem. It's tied to shrinkflation. The problem is that the cost of many things has just gone up, a lot. And the US has bent over backwards to ensure no one has to pay the real cost of gasoline. If customers were really seeing the true cost of every good and service they bought with no manipulation, hidden fees, shrunken products, etc, demand would fall drastically and we'd go into a recession.
• yafbum 4y ago
  There has been a deplorable profusion of dark patterns in restaurant checkout UIs, such as offering preselected tip amounts set along a 18-20-25% scale (standard used to be 15%), making it quite difficult to leave a custom tip, etc. Add to this various "surcharges" and other mandatory fees added for this or that (my favorite: mandatory "resort fees" for hotels - seriously why is that not just rolled into the price of the stay?), and the service industry in the US has a serious price transparency crisis. It is quite literally impossible to predict the final cost of service, so as a rule of thumb I have come to generally expect to be out of pocket about 50% - 80% more than the listed price. Any other country would call this fraud.
  • 8note 4y ago
    Lol, more like 20/25/30 15/18/20 was in 2018
  • irrational 4y ago
    Fortunately it is still possible to choose the tip amount. I just move it to 15%.
    • amrocha 4y ago
      if they have 15% available I choose that If they don't I do a custom $0 tip and tell the restaurant why I did it
  • swaggyBoatswain 4y ago
    100% this Some of these places will also auto add grauituity charges as well for larger parties, and auto select a tip so if you don't look at the bill you could be footing out as much as 40%. Super shady UI practices. I don't want to be guilt tripped in tipping for a baked item for instance, or a chipotle style served food restaurant.
    • orev 4y ago
      Adding a tip for large parties has been a common practice for decades—long before the current trend of adding tips for everything. Whether you agree with the idea of tips or not, that’s the system we have, and in that system large parties very often take up far more resources at a restaurant than smaller ones. They take more time to leave, they clog up the kitchen (as all dishes need to come out at the same time), they often occupy multiple servers at the same time (when a normal table takes only one), and very often don’t tip at a level anywhere close to the standard 15% (with so many people, everyone thinks they can get away with a low tip and others at the table will make up for it). Servers get charged taxes as if they received those tips, so getting shorted actually costs them money (paying taxes on money they didn’t receive). This practice is different than dark patterns, as it’s actually addressing a real problem with the customers that’s been known be restaurants for a long time. It’s not the same thing as trying to trick or guilt people into tipping.
• anothernewdude 4y ago
  Microtransactions have made their way into real life.
• alwaysanon 4y ago
  Good article - mirrors my thoughts. I moved to Australia from the US in 2006. I swear that when I left the tip was more like ~15% (as the sales tax where I was was 7.5% and the rule was that you doubled the tax to work it out). Every couple years I'd go back and it would seem to creep up. All of the sudden it was 20% and, then when I was back last year, somebody told me 20% was minimum and 25% was really more expected if the service was good. The last time I was there I was out with 6 people and the bill was $500 and I watched them tip $150 (and then expect us all to evenly split it). The service was not exceptional - if anything I remember waiting ages to get the second drink and the bill. I am sure that person was working at least 5 tables (likely more) and you'd think at least a couple sittings so they'd be making some quite good money for a night at those kinds of numbers. I made a bit of a comment about how it felt generous and they said "if you can't afford to tip like this you can't afford to go out to eat in America" - and I remember feeling things had gone way too far. It is a bit of a strange flex?
• thepasswordis 4y ago
  I’ll offer some dissent. I like tipping because I usually tip a lot, and it causes the staff to remember me and go above and beyond. During the covid pandemic instacart times would go as high as several days, but if we would tip $100 or so, we’d get our delivery within hours. I like free markets, and I like being able to bribe service workers. In fact, I wish there were more people I could tip.
  • pokepim 4y ago
    [dead]
• jhoechtl 4y ago
  Tipping in central europe work fundamentally different compared to the US. I never do the math 'what are roughl 10 percent' instead round up to a meaningful amount. It is certainly less than 10%. If you don't tip its because you were not satisfied with the service. Sure, recipients expect it and will look at you in dismay if you don't. In countries like Italy or spain it's not common at all. I tip more of late as unfortunately the US habit of earning less than being able to make a living became the rule and so service personell is dependent on the extra cash.
• pronlover723 4y ago
  It's somewhat infuriating. You use to tip waiters/waitresses. They took your order and brought it to you. Now they ask for tips when they do none of that. Every non-chain fast food joint / coffee stand where all they do is stand at the cash register, take your order, and hand it to you, they now ask for a tip. The bakery asks for a tip. The taco stand asks for a tip. On top of that, in SF, prices are off the chart. Went to a bread store. One loaf of bread + 1 canele + 1 coffee + 1 sandwich, $47. Got chinese dumplings. 3 people 3 plates of dumplings and 3 side dishes, $135 (with tip). That same thing would have been < $30 in Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Taipei. Even Japan
  • tayo42 4y ago
    I don't get why food is so expensive in the US. You would think economy of scale would kick in at some point. I eat at home now except for being social and tbh even then I'd rather just cook for a group. A good cookbook will get you better food then almost all restaurants. Even obscure ingredients from Asia are imported or even grown in the US now. There are a few exceptions
• irrational 4y ago
  I've actually started avoiding places solely because tipping has been getting out of control. I stopped going out to eat. I now cut my own hair. I don't go out for coffee. Etc. All because I get so much anxiety when the flip those screens around and stare at me while it asks me how much tip am I going to give.
• alwaysanon 4y ago
  One thing I was surprised by recently as an American ex-pat (living in Australia for years) too was tipping housekeeping in hotels. I was told by an American colleague on a recent trip there that I was meant to leave $5 in the room every day for housekeeping. This was because it might be somebody different every day - and I was expected to directly recognise each one. I have gotten used to not having to carry/worry about cash and the idea I need all these $5 notes whenever I stayed in a hotel in the States stressed me out a bit. Is this a thing?
  • mikhael28 4y ago
    I guess it's a thing. Happens in America too. Optional though. Tipping is a societal defense mechanism to rationalize & justify gross inequality. People will leave a 5 dollar tip, but they won't invest in helping change someones life by giving them knowledge and experience they don't have.
  • tayo42 4y ago
    I think it used to be. It was common travel advice. But only for longer stays. After covid hotels rarely do regular cleaning ime or they want to conserve water. I used to do it, but totally forgot about it until you mentioned. I've pretty much stopped. I also don't carry cash anymore except for emergencies and tipping isn't an emergency
• zupa-hu 4y ago
  This is not tipping. Tipping is giving money without being asked. When you are asked, it is called begging.
• rippercushions 4y ago
  > What’s next, they wonder -- are we going to be tipping our doctors and dentists, too? Japan is often called out as a tipless wonderland of excellent service, but while you don't tip in restaurants there, it is fairly common to tip doctors!
• saghm 4y ago
  A few days ago I got dinner delivered, and I added a $5 tip through the app (which came out to about 22%). When the delivery person came, he expressed disappointment about the size of the tip, which really surprised me. As much as I know that it would be better for businesses to pay better wages rather than tips being expected, I also know that the system being unfair isn't any consolation to workers who are just trying to make a living and don't have any power over the situation, so I've always tried to make sure that I give a sizable tip whenever receiving any sort of service where it might be expected. I admit that I haven't had any recent discussions with anyone who relies on tips to make a living in the past several years (the last one that I remember was a discussion with my older brother who had waited tables at a restaurant for several years), but my general understanding was that 15% tends to be low enough to not make up for below minimum wage that restaurants can get away with paying due to exceptions in law for jobs where tips are expected, but that 20% was a good baseline. Has this expectation changed in recent years? (Based on the specific wording of the complaint, I know that the delivery person did see the exact amount I tipped, so I don't think that the complaint was due to the app taking a share, but I guess I don't know for sure since he might have assumed I knew that or didn't think to mention it).
  • Acutulus 4y ago
    It's hard to say. I would argue that yeah, that baseline tip %age is creeping upwards in the US at least, though the rate at which is hard to quantify. There seem to be a lot of social factors at play that are continuing to put upward pressure on that number. I was taught 15-20% a decade or more back, but that feels to be closer to 25-30% now. Delivery app tip culture is a fascinating rabbithole in and of itself. /r/doordash is a great repository of posts to look at. You can get a sense of expected order pricing/tip amounts/driving distances sufficient to compel a dasher to pick up your order. Much like with the restaurant industry you will notice that quite a few (I would say a majority of posters there) take issue not with Doordash but with the delivery recipient as the cause of their low earnings. Tips are the name of the game, and any fervor to change or push Doordash into changing their payment models are hushed by the collective din that laments "stingy customers". Whether it was planned or a happy coincidence, that mentality is a sociocultural win for doordash as a company. The customer, who themselves can make no guarantees how much of that tip a driver will receive if paying digitally, is to bear the burden of blame more than the company that contracted that service to a driver when said driver feels underpaid. It feels me with a sense that's hard to describe. Disheartenment maybe? That new markets and services appear and the tipping culture we crafted for ourselves comes in with them, absolving some companies of paying market wages and sometimes shielding them from certain wage laws. I wish we in the US could collectively agree that this culture of tipping is (imo) a net negative for everyone involved. But with an economy looking over an uncertain horizon, and the recent bottom-to-top wealth transfers facilitated by the chaos of covid, I think the simple act of throwing a few bucks to the service worker will remain the average American's daily act of "helping the little guy" regardless of how real that benefit truly is.
• andyvesel 4y ago
  In Czech Republic, where I live, the tipping and payment system in restaurants is very convenient. As for the tips, if you paying, say 241 CZK, you don't need to worry about percentage, just round up to 250 and all will be good. Also, if you don't tip and just pay 241, it is totally acceptable, nobody will ever say nothing or look at you wrong. Just "Thank you" as usual. Regarding the payment it is also very convenient: you pay for yourself. E.g. your company at the table ordered very different food, drinks, some of them leaving sooner, some later. So when you finished, you just go to the cashdesk (or wait at the table) and say to the waiter what you had. That's it, you are not bothering with splitting the bills, counting tips or other annoying stuff. So far this is my favorite model of how it can be done.
• mikhael28 4y ago
  Most of the people loudly evangelizing tips, have themselves worked a job where they received tips.
• teekert 4y ago
  I can tell from experience if you come from a non-tipping country you can really have some negative experiences before you realize what's going on :) That said, the "need" for a tip does make the waiter/ress a lot more pro-active and helpful than in my country where waiter/ress's can be cranky even. In the US they introduce themselves ("Hi I'm Jerome, I'm excited to be your waiter today!" Made me smile every time), make sure you are ok, the level of service is pretty high. We do tip here (Netherlands), but it's more when service was really good. But personnel won't bat an eye when you don't. Of course, we learned from Reservoir Dogs [0] that tipping is basically part of the income in the US. Is that still true? In the Netherlands we generally agree with Mr. Pink, minimum wage is higher here though (I think). [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4sbYy0WdGQ
  • killerpopiller 4y ago
    I always have to cringe about such exaggerate expressions, "excited to be your waiter" and the like. What is the intensification? It just feels like an unnecessary lie or even hypocrisy.
    • lljk_kennedy 4y ago
      Exactly. I'm just getting a sandwich, man. Even I'm not that excited about it. And this in turn, diminishes the whole thing. Can I _not_ pay for the false charm?
• cmckn 4y ago
  Why yes I’d love to pay arbitrarily more for this $6 latte, thanks
• blahedo 4y ago
  Important to add: in fields where tipping is standard (notably, restaurant waitstaff), in many areas of the US the minimum wage is much much lower. Nationally, $2.13/hour. That pays their taxes... For all intents and purposes, restaurant and bar staff are gig workers that are working for a variable rate determined entirely at the customers' discretion. If you don't tip them, they're essentially working for free, or rather, the rest of us are subsidising your service. It is a mind-blowingly terrible system, but until we fix it, "tips" (in the US, in industries that are traditionally tipped) are not a bonus, they're part of the base wage, and if you don't pay them you are absolutely freeloading.
  • panda88888 4y ago
    In CA it is not. But it doesn’t stop this 25%+ tip minimum for normal service advice.
• dgb23 4y ago
  Another thing that gets out of control is manipulating the browser history in order to keep us on a website.
• FrontierPsych 4y ago
  I like paying tips at restaurants, but I agree - tips everywhere are maddening, especially the digital tipping at places where you are not served at your table by a wait staff or other places where tips are normal - like tipping a bell hop and people at hotels, bartenders, dealers at casinos. The normal classical tipping jobs. For all the other places like coffee shops, I never pay, I take pleasure in not paying a tip on the digital pad, because don't try to jam me up. I so when there's a tip jar at those places, but now I make it a point never to tip on digital. And when it does happen, I start looking for an alternate location where they don't have that crap. I might not find one this month, or for six months, but I'll be low-level looking for alternatives.
• underdeserver 4y ago
  Contrarian opinion: Tipping could be good if you look at it the right way. I always consider tips part of the entire price. If dinner is $30 and the customary tip is 20% then the dinner costs $36, not $30. Yes, it's annoying that the price you see is not the price you pay, but then in the US there's tax you're adding anyway. This makes tipping good: If there's some sort of problem - someone's rude, they took their time, something's wrong with the food and they won't replace it - you can actually just legally pay less. By the way - 10%, 15%, 20% are easy calculations to do: divide by 10 and multiply. Let's say your order is $35. For 25% halve twice. 10% = 35/10 = $3.5 15% = 35/10 * 1.5 = 3.51.5 = 3.5 + 1.75 = $5.25. 20% = 35/10 2 = $7 25% = 35/2/2 = 17.5/2 = $8.75 It's easy math once you get used to it.
• qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
  If a company outsources wages, what exactly is it doing, besides providing a situation for two strangers to exchange services?
• zuminator 4y ago
  I went to a little coffee shop in a museum the other day. I ordered a little sandwich from behind a display, as well as some tea. When I put my card in the machine, the gentleman taking orders immediately said, "press here, just press one of the buttons here," jabbing with his finger in the directions some on-screen buttons for adding a 15, 18, or 20% gratuity. It's true that the buttons weren't very noticeable but I was still taken aback by his forthrightness. I left a tip anyway, but then he handed me a pre-made sandwich, an empty paper cup, and a tea bag; and curtly announced, "Hot water's over there. Next!" So not only had he insisted upon a tip but he wasn't even planning on preparing my beverage. If people wonder why customers get turned off of tipping it's because of entitled people abusing the process. He did nothing but ring me up, but he was expecting the same tip as a full-service table waiter.
  • quickthrower2 4y ago
    Museum. Flux of tourists. Probably doesn’t care about repeat business.
• conaclos 4y ago
  In France, supermarkets now offer to round up the bill to make donations to associations. This way, supermarkets have a good image and, at the same time, they reduce their taxes by donating to associations. It is much better to make direct donations to associations.
  • lleb97a 4y ago
    This has begun happening in Australia at the self service machines.
• jl6 4y ago
  I dislike tipping because it turns every tip-eligible service interaction into a kind of low-key hustle. It drives a wedge of insincerity between staff and customers. Service in Europe with no expectation of tipping is a more human experience - it's just someone doing their job.
• bilalq 4y ago
  I recently ran into a retail self-checkout stand that had a tip option. It's a low point I didn't think we'd ever reach, but here we are.
• spratzt 4y ago
  This reminds me of the brochure I once received from a fishing camp. In the pricing section of the brochure, there was an item described, completely un-ironically, as “compulsory gratuities”.
• xs83 4y ago
  It's starting to crop up here in Australia too - thankfully Aussies are pretty stoic about looking them in the eyes and clicking "No Tip". To be clear - I will tip for exceptional service or if we have been a particularly difficult table (dietary requirements, number of people etc), but its an exception rather than the rule and its rarely more than 10%. However often in these cases a surcharge is already added or the meal has been altered in such a way as to negate these issues (Set menu only for tables of 5 or more is common). Asking me to tip for basic service is going to be refused.
  • tayo42 4y ago
    I ate out at a restaurant in Australia, there was a tip section that as an American I instinctively filled out. The waiter didn't even know how to accept the check with the tip section filled out. Felt like a fool.
    • xs83 4y ago
      Yeah its rare here that it goes on the paper receipt, I found that confusing in the US too because I had already paid, so do they take a second charge out for the tip afterwards? I don't think I have signed a credit card slip in 10 years here in Australia and haven't even inserted my card in the last 5 - everything is tap and go!
• michael9k 4y ago
  “Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed” - This sums up the entire problem with tipping. It's just simply wrong / false. Actually tipping is making sure that the owner of a café can get away with paying a too low salary to the employee. So best advice: don't tip! You are keeping alive a system where it is up to you, the customer, to (maybe) ensure the employee is making a decent amount of money. That is flipping the issue of money on the head. This should be a matter between the employee and the business, using a contract, you know, like every other normal business relationship works!
  • chickenimprint 4y ago
    Tipping also makes sure every restaurant is slowly turning into a Hooters. When was the last time you've seen an unattractive nonwhite male waiter?
• hooby 4y ago
  In some countries like afaik Japan, it's customary to NOT tip and actually leaving a tip might be seen as an insult - as if you tried to insinuate they aren't paying their employees enough. I don't know why here in the west it's common practice to actually not pay employees enough and rely entirely on tips. Without those tips, many job offers in the service industry would not be attractive, as they don't pay enough to make a living. Without tips, many of those positions never could be filled, unless wages were raised. Of course, if wages were raised, the increased cost would ultimately have to be passed on to the consumer. So instead of paying €9 for your order, and placing a €1 tip - you might end up being billed €10 instead. At the bottom line, on average, this would work out to the consumer paying the same with or without tips, and the worker earning the same, with or without tips. But with tips, that's just the average - while in actuality, some patrons will tip a lot more than others. And some workers might earn a lot more tips than others. If you assume that workers are unfriendly by default, you could see this as an incentive to make them behave more friendly in an attempt to earn a tip. If you assume that workers are friendly by default, you could see that as a green-light for them to be unfriendly to those customers who don't tip. Not sure if creating a competitive environment between your workers is a good thing... What tipping does, is make things more uneven. Some customer will pay more, some customer will pay less, some workers will earn more, some workers will pay less, some patrons will be treated more friendly, other patrons will be treated less friendly. The average stays the same, but the variance increases. Without tipping, things would be more even. Individual cases would stay closer to the average.
  • rapht 4y ago
    > I don't know why here in the west it's common practice to actually not pay employees enough and rely entirely on tips It's really mostly the case in North America. In most of Europe, tipping is more an exception than a rule. "Normal" service (i.e. being nice to clients and appropriately responding to requests given the standing of the place) is expected to be included in the price. I tip only when I got really outstanding service, and even then, mostly as a symbolic gesture of appreciation (2-5% ballpark figure).
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
• maxehmookau 4y ago
  America's tipping obsession was such a huge culture shock to me when I visited last year. With the poor USD/GBP exchange rate, a $20 item on the menu would often cost me £25 or even more after tipping From what I can see, tipping exists to subsidise awful wages so someone's ability to make a living and pay their bills exists solely on how well someone else perceives their customer service skills. As a brit, that's just wild to me.
• maxehmookau 4y ago
  When I booked people to move my belongings to my new house, I picked a company where all of the employees were full-time salaried employees making a decent wage and had relative security in their jobs along with PTO, pensions, etc. When they finished, they still asked for a tip. I said no because I paid a premium them for the very reason that I didn't expect that they'd ask for a tip.
• samwhiteUK 4y ago
  ' “Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed,” said Schenker, who’s been working in the service industry for roughly 18 years. ' Shouldn't that be the employer's job? I'm not exaggerating when I say this tipping culture is a major reason why I wouldn't move the US. It's ridiculous.
• vbezhenar 4y ago
  I don't understand why people tip. I never tip. Sometimes tips are included in cheque as a flat percentage, that's fine for me as long as it's stated before order. But why would I pay more than necessary to someone who did his work? That makes no sense for me. If you're not paid well, leave and find another work, that's none of my business. I'm not that rich to throw money around to everyone who wants it. And if the service is bad, I'll require to fix it or decline to pay at all. I guess that cultural thing.
• encryptluks2 4y ago
  It is nice to see logical comments. I brought up the tipping culture issue during COVID-19 cause that is when I saw businesses start exploiting it substantially, and I swear there was some pro-tipping mafia on major message boards that would say you deserve spit in your food is you don't tip, you deserve to be beat up, etc. I believe the service industry is literally engaged in culture wars but fortunately other people have started to wake up to the issues and the discussion is no longer being insta-downvoted like it was before.
• qwerty456127 4y ago
  Tipping is awkward. I feel guilty of being an ashole in both cases: if I don't tip I feel like I'm a greedy asshole, If I do tip I feel like I am playing an arrogant aristocrat. I wish everybody would just rise the prices and pay their employees enough for them to be happy without tips.
• kaiwen1 4y ago
  I pointedly refuse to add any tip when the only special "service" is ringing up my purchase. I've become resigned to accepting the unpleasant glares of staff as I dial their tip to zero. That I'm even put in that position is just grossly antithetical to customer service. So here's my tip to all you business owners: pay your people, make it transparent, and stop annoying and insulting your customers. Tipping has become a burden and nuisance for most Americans. We need a plan of action to remedy this.
• rapht 4y ago
  To me, this relates to a broader subject: the way prices are displayed. In Europe, laws basically mandate that what you as a customer see on a price tag or price list, is what you ultimately pay. You don't have to do any guesswork, looking at the fine print, compute anything in your head. You pay the price that is displayed, and there should be no expectation from any one that you pay anything above that. When I go to a restaurant, I'm not like buying the food on the one hand, and the service on the other hand, and everything that the taxes cover above all that. I'm paying the restaurant for dining, which includes the food, the service, and whatever taxes the restaurant has to pay. The details are none of my business... and I shouldn't have to do any contorsions to compare prices between restaurants!
  • courgette 4y ago
    the tax being calculated separately seems suspiciously petty to my French ass. I’m used to it now, but the only rational I could find by asking around “why is the tax not part of the final displayed price” were : - “it depends from state to state.” Taxes are also different in Spain, France, Germany and Italy … we use the same currency and we don’t feel the urge to display our taxes by removing them from the displayed prices. Even in places like Andorra, where the tax on Tabacco is close to 0. - a less common rationale; often find in the libertarian type of interlocutors. “It’s to show what the government is taking you” Sadly; I think it’s the second one? I’ve ask that question a lot in the last 10 years. People just shrug it as un-important and we move on with the sale. Or maybe nobody knows?
    • ciupicri 4y ago
      American taxes vary way more than in Europe. You walk a mile to a nearby town and suddenly it's a different tax. Not by much, it's like less than one percent, but still.
      • courgette 4y ago
        Taxes can varies from counties to counties? Ha, I never noticed that. Kinda goes to show that it's not helping to display them like that.
• figassis 4y ago
  My issue with all this is the dishonesty. Yes, tips are ok, but don’t force me to pay them. Let me decide. Also, don’t lie, add a 25%-30% gratuity, charge me, then give me the check with additional tip along with all the same social pressure that it is “expected”. If I had an expensive meal, maybe I’ve been saving for a while to have it, and maybe that was a bad decision and maybe I won’t be having another one anytime soon. Don’t assume I just have money to burn. Because of this, I made it a point never to pay tips in the US if I feel a hint of pressure, regardless of how great the service is. I actually pay tips elsewhere, even when there is no tip item in a check.
• holistio 4y ago
  I live in Central Europe and I think our version of tipping makes a lot more sense than what's common in North America. If we receive exceptional service, we pay a little extra - usually 10% or less. Staff doesn't expect to be paid from tips, business owners don't expect their staff to be paid from tips, customers don't have a guilt trip because they feel like if they don't tip generously the staff will be underpaid. U.S. tipping doesn't make any sense from a European point of view. Just set the prices of things at a level where you can afford to pay your staff from your revenue.
  • pastacacioepepe 4y ago
    If you're an European waiter working in a touristic restaurant you get the best of both worlds. European pay and benefits plus large tips from unknowing USA tourists.
  • musingsole 4y ago
    > U.S. tipping doesn't make any sense from a European point of view. Because you're thinking about it too hard or otherwise unaware of the inner turnings of the system. Where it matters, servers are almost their own industry, swapping gigs at this or that restaurant to work with this or that regional manager. The restaurant gets their money from the bill, the server gets their money direct from the customer they helped. My server goes to a different restaurant -- I go there and keep getting awesome service. This type of arrangement gets really close to a guildhouse/coop more than a franchise. In places with less stable relationships (tourist restaurants), asking for tips might be a predatory thing -- or you can see it as paying it forward: "hey person working to get people their demands in a moments notice, I hope this tenner will help you hold that smile in the face of another consumerist monster. Thanks for being a human."
    • holistio 4y ago
      > swapping gigs at this or that restaurant to work with this or that regional manager This or that restaurant or this or that regional manager could give them a fair wage and incorporate their labour cost in the prices of the items on the menu. I just had a chat with an AWS customer support agent earlier today... should I send them $10 for their service? Next month they could be working for GCP (or this or that) support, how can I expect AWS to pay them directly?
• getoffmyyawn 4y ago
  Simply put, there is no defense of tipping that stands up to rigorous scrutiny. If you think any of the following points are incorrect, please look for a study that reflects this. I'm willing to bet you won't find any. Studies show that tipping is inherently biased in favor certain races, genders, and phenotypes. Studies show that tipping is not strongly related to service quality. In fact most people in the USA tip even when they judge the service to be bad. People in tipping professions are more likely to be living in (or close to) poverty than people in other professions. Tipping on price makes no sense. A bottle of wine may cost $15 or $1500 but the effort to serve it will be the same. Expected tipping is a scam to artificially lower menu prices and nothing more.
• itwontbelik 4y ago
  When I was a child, the set of rules were pretty common: * Don't tip at counters * Don't tip the owner of an establishment * Tip on the quality of the service, not the quality of the food * Very low tips should be utilized only in case of very bad service. (A penny tip sends a much bigger message than no tip) * Round up to the nearest dollar for taxi drivers or Ubers, since they are almost all self-employed, and you don't tip bus drivers do you? Also, I only tip in cash, and only by putting that cash directly in the hand of one of my servers. Otherwise the manager, who is not supposed to be tipped will likely take a cut.
• xena 4y ago
  I get asked to tip at Taco Bell up in Canada. I'm not tipping at Taco Bell.
• Ekaros 4y ago
  What will be end-game of the tipping? When will police, customs start to accept and ask for them? For better and more personal service? Or judges and prosecutors. A hundred given at start would sure improve the vital service they provide? And before that, why not tip at any financial transaction? Maybe some money when meeting some person buying your SaaS product?
• jeffwask 4y ago
  Imagine if the title of the article was instead: "Is companies not paying a fair and living wage getting out of control?"
• jFriedensreich 4y ago
  in vietnam and estonia i encounter regularly someone refusing to take a tip or even seem slightly offended and it took me a while to get the right signals when it seems condescending, but it felt quite relieving to accept no tips are the default. especially delivery drivers made a real shift from being happy about tips to being proud and refusing and instead wanting real recognition by their companies and a livable salary instead of seeing responsibility shift to gratitudes.
• kgbcia 4y ago
  Ordering on Uber eats feels like game theory. I have to calculate how much to bribe the driver to get me my food, since Uber underpays
• dig1 4y ago
  > Schenker says it’s hard to sympathize with consumers who are able to afford pricey coffee drinks but complain about tipping. And he often feels demoralized when people don’t leave behind anything extra — especially if they’re regulars. Seriously? If I have $10 in my pocket and want to buy something good for $10, why I'd choose something cheaper just to leave the tip? > “Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed,” said Schenker... This does not make sense to me. If I'm a CEO, manager, or working for Google, Ford, or any company, behind the desk, should I be expected to be tipped for my service? If people are working for below minimum wage and expecting tips to compensate for the difference, they should be negotiating a higher paycheck. Some things in USA do not make sense to me.
• sytelus 4y ago
  Huge problem is that restaurant owners are usually extremely bad at economics. They think that defaulting to 22% tip (in addition to increasing prices by 50%) will sustain them. In reality many customers avoid sit down restaurants purely because of this.
• gwnywg 4y ago
  I'm not in US, but here in my part of Europe it is common to leave a 10% tip when eating in the restaurant (though nobody will complain if you forget). Some restaurants will collect 10% service fee if table was sat by more than 5 persons. I quite often order food through apps like wolt or glovo and always think twice when going through "tip" section. First- the app asks for a tip before I receive service (even though uber eats used to state that tip can be cancelled). But what makes me more curious is if courier knows about tip, or is the tip included in fee collected so higher the fee more couriers are interested to take the call.. I also have local pizza shop, whenever I order pizza there I tip delivery guy even though he does not, in any way, makes me to do so. I do it more eagerly if there is bad traffic outside or bad weather, basically being happy not having to drive/walk to collect the food..
• kris_wayton 4y ago
  I recently noticed this on Fiverr.com. I had used it in the past and wasn't ever hit up for a tip. Paid for some work to create some icons just the other day, and the payment flow hits you up for a tip at the end. With wording like "It's customary". And a minimum tip of $5, regardless of the order total, though you can opt out altogether.
• mensetmanusman 4y ago
  Mortgage companies asking for tips? Hahahaha Can’t wait to see this prompt at the back atm!
• CM30 4y ago
  I've seen a lot of people saying that tipping is uncommon outside the US, and that it's only a thing there because of the wage structure for servers. But that's never been my experience. Over here in the UK, I almost always leave a tip when eating in a restaurant, as well as when getting food delivered or having a haircut. None of these folks are paid under minimum wage or rely on the tips to survive, they're just offered as a bonus for their service. And most others I know act the same way. They'll tip those who provide good service almost regardless of the kind of job that's involved. So is that uncommon or something? Are there really folks here who just... pay exactly what a restaurant charges and no more? Or am I missing something with these whole 'no one tips outside of America' discussions?
• canibal57 4y ago
  So we're stopping the gratuitous kindness of strangers towards lower income workers so some other people don't "feel bad" now?
  • dmazin 4y ago
    Seriously! Why is this a story?
    • spopejoy 4y ago
      LOL look at where the "contrarian" views are here: voted to the bottom after 30 "I hate tipping too!" "It's irrational" "No really in MY ideal technocracy you just wouldn't need tipping!" Even some of the "contrarian" views are incredibly timid. "I say allow me to offer a different viewpoint because I wouldn't dare condemn your extremely rational stance kind sir!" Fact is, any chance you can take as an overpaid software dev you should tip to pay your debt to society. While you're at it, give some cash to beggars too. "Effective altruism" doesn't cut it.
• nwah1 4y ago
  As far as I can tell, there is no point whatsoever to have tipping as an option on payment terminals. You use them when you are getting takeout, or when you are at a fast-casual place. If there is waitstaff, then they take your card and you never see a terminal. But tipping is only customary when there is involvement of waitstaff. Complete disconnect. Printing receipts with a tip line in a circumstance where there is no involvement of waitstaff is also pretty sketchy. They should just ban it on these terminals and on the receipts. Tip with cash if you want to. Let businesses set fair wages and prices accordingly. End of story.
• dav_Oz 4y ago
  From a macro-economical perspective: Recession. Inflation is way up. Wealth distribution still growing more uneven: 'Classical' middle class is disappearing. From a non-US/middle European perspective[0]: the US-tipping system is weird[1] to say the least and easily exploitable. Combine those two and yeah, "service" gets ugly on both sides. I can understand why so many are upset in their experience about their respective situations (especially in the US) and trying to think about solutions to counter the "exploitation"/"inefficiency" in this new context. But it is also easy to get caught up by the dynamics at the ground exerted by the pressure from above (macroeconomics). Historically, the issue of "tipping" seems to erupt in times of hard economical/societal challenges. Like US-Prohibition 1919 or my favorite example during German industrialization in the late 19th century: >More generally, tipping, is a morally fraught issue in the history of hospitality and public education in Germany (more accurately, nationalen Pädagogik, or national pedagogy), going back to the nineteenth century. The jurist Ihering (more commonly referred to as Rudolf von Jhering, with a "J") argued that tipping encourages vices like begging, greed, false or feigned friendship, vanity, and hedonism among service personnel. He wanted service people to be penalized for receiving tips, and employers to pay enough that tipping would not be necessary. The controversy about tipping continues.[2] Interestingly through this moral/social debate in late 19th century Germany, "tipping"/"Trinkgeld" didn't vanish (intention of Jhering) but people became more aware of the social situation and a balance has arisen out of it. [0]https://switzerlandtimes.ch/lifestyle/the-impact-of-credit-cards-and-inflation-on-tipping/ https://switzerlandtimes.ch/lifestyle/the-impact-of-credit-c... [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity [2]Touwal, Amital: Anthropological Study of Hospitality (2016): The Innkeeper and the Guest, p.70
• Flatcircle 4y ago
  https://twitter.com/johnhfio/status/1617903269996793856?s=46&t=XNqP7rRHnVxQkXcdwbEfxw https://twitter.com/johnhfio/status/1617903269996793856?s=46...
• nojvek 4y ago
  Tipping is like every place expects an additional 15% tax and they look at you funny if you don’t give it. Regardless of how good or poor the service is. 11% to Uncle Sam, 15% to the workers. It’s become the fabric of life. I really do enjoy when I don’t have to tip. Even though the amount is slightly higher and the 15% is included in base price.
• ampham 4y ago
  Counter-service tipping is the most confusing to me. What service am I tipping for? And if I don’t tip, will my food be worse or take longer? Tipping before receiving any service or no service at all feels like bribing.
• revlolz 4y ago
  It's out of control. People are tipping 25% to 30% on almost all transactions with chip checkouts. Businesses are being shady and reversing the preselected % orders from lowest to highest and presenting highest to lowest. I've seen more videos of fraud on the rise where staff at businesses will add charges (not gratuity) or just select a % and inform customers this is "policy. " We need to get rid of tipping all together.
• DragonL80 4y ago
  Why is this on HN? This isnt even remotely related, all I see is Europeans not understanding the f'ed up wage policies of the US, and people from the US acting entitled like they do in restaurants.
• speby 4y ago
  My pet theory is that tipping became more common by almost accident. As the proliferation of various kiosk-based credit card processing machines took place (Square, etc.) where a little screen gets shared with a customer, the 'tip' step was either so easy to be turned on by the store/merchant OR it was even defaulted to on when the merchant applied for their credit card processor account and then the merchant just kinda left it that way; not enough people complained loudly enough or cared to do so, and so it stuck. Repeat tens of thousands of times across stores that opened or switched their CC processing over the years, even for places that didn't traditionally accept tips, and there you have it. Tip tip tip everywhere.
• stefap2 4y ago
  I stopped going to Starbucks because of this. Simple Americano (espresso + hot water) is $3.50. They ask for tip on the pad, customary at least $1. This adds up to about $5 with tax, for a medium coffee. It's not sustainable. I maybe getting old and still live in times when the same Americano cost me $1.69.