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Suez Canal says traffic in channel resumes after stranded ship refloated

• 0xcafecafe 6y ago
  I wonder why the previous link to track it is not working again. Would have been cool to see it navigating the canal: https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9811000 https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9811000
  • GreeningRun 6y ago
    Is OK for me but maybe the web server is submerged under the load
    • gorkish 6y ago
      Unfortunately at 02:53:44 GMT a web request which, due to high botnet activity and a packet storm, experienced poor routing conditions and unfortunately became wedged in one of the major transatlantic fiber optic cables. Network operators are working to free the stuck request. It is estimated that 50 billion requests per minute are queueing in the cable which will soon become filled if the situation is not resolved quickly. Experts fear the effects to international browsing, and some requests have already begun to take "the long way around."
      • pfarrell 6y ago
        I know we typically don’t upvote humor here, but that was really good.
      • deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  • throw0101a 6y ago
    > imo=9811000 I find it neat? strange? that IMO numbers have checksums: > An IMO number is made of the three letters "IMO" followed by a seven-digit number. This consists of a six-digit sequential unique number followed by a check digit. The integrity of an IMO number can be verified using its check digit. This is done by multiplying each of the first six digits by a factor of 2 to 7 corresponding to their position from right to left. The rightmost digit of this sum is the check digit. For example, for IMO 9074729: (9×7) + (0×6) + (7×5) + (4×4) + (7×3) + (2×2) = 139.[10][11] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMO_number#Structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMO_number#Structure MMSI numbers do not: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_Mobile_Service_Identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_Mobile_Service_Identi...
    • geoduck14 6y ago
      Was this comment intended for a different thread?
      • blfr 6y ago
        Probably not. The site linked uses imo numbers for ship ids.
    • teddyh 6y ago
      > I find it neat? strange? that IMO numbers have checksums: It’s a relatively common feature of ID numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhn_algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhn_algorithm
• walrus01 6y ago
  https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/EVER-GIVEN-IMO-9811000-MMSI-353136000 https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/EVER-GIVEN-IMO-9811000-... https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:5630138/mmsi:353136000/imo:9811000/vessel:EVER_GIVEN https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:56...
• ocschwar 6y ago
  I'm brushing up my Arabic so I can understand the interview with that excavator's operator.
  • selimthegrim 6y ago
    Link to the interview?
    • ocschwar 6y ago
      There are several. But I can't type in Arabic to save my life, so it will be some time before I can find it.
• belinder 6y ago
  Was it reported how it got stuck in the first place?
  • sjm 6y ago
    The ship's operators blamed a sandstorm and high winds.
  • richrichardsson 6y ago
    High winds + sandstorm reduced visibility.
  • Pyrodogg 6y ago
    This is a pretty good synopsis of the situation as of Sunday https://youtu.be/5iyn2q6s1Sk https://youtu.be/5iyn2q6s1Sk
  • rjzzleep 6y ago
    They blamed a sandstorm, but the Taiwanese operator blamed the Japanese owner for it. And the Japanese operator agrees. Basically, we're not getting the real answer to this question. Also, the following: > However, the chairman of Egypt's Suez Canal Authority said Saturday, without giving details, that weather conditions "were not the main reasons" for the grounding, and that "there may have been technical or human reasons," the BBC reported. An investigation is ongoing.
    • navbaker 6y ago
      If it turns out to be human error related, how much liability falls on the actual ship's captain versus the required canal pilot?
      • toxik 6y ago
        Google “Costa Concordia” for a simulation of that scenario.
        • dubbel 6y ago
• cyberlab 6y ago
  Looks like https://istheshipstillstuck.com/ https://istheshipstillstuck.com/ has updated their message!
  • politelemon 6y ago
    And you get Rickrolled if you stay on the page long enough.
    • pqdbr 6y ago
      All of the sudden I had Rick Astley playing loudly in my computer and I was like "WTF?". Well played, well played.
    • loginatnine 6y ago
      I got solidly caught as well. If you're lucky enough, you can also get https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPCJIB1f7jk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPCJIB1f7jk. Object(c.useEffect)((function() { var e = "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ"; Math.random() > .999 && (e = "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPCJIB1f7jk"), setTimeout((function() { return window.location.href = e } ), 9e4) }
    • macintux 6y ago
      Thank you, I was wondering how I ended up with two Ricks singing at me this morning.
    • dna_polymerase 6y ago
      The real rickroll occurs after buying that page's NFT and realizing what they just did to you.
  • postingawayonhn 6y ago
    I wonder what their $59b cost is based on?
    • craftinator 6y ago
• pmiller2 6y ago
  Well, that was a really short few weeks.
• codevark 6y ago
  Free? I'll take it!
• nindalf 6y ago
  .
  • brummm 6y ago
    That's not true. $58B worth of goods were delayed for a few days. That definitely didn't cost anything even remotely that much.
  • scrollaway 6y ago
    Whenever you see such absurdly high numbers attached to cost estimates, always try to understand how they calculate it. This took the "$400 million / hour of shipped goods are being delayed" figure and ran with it by multiplying it, claiming that's the total damage cost. Now ask yourself: Let's say you're sending a parcel via UPS that contains an iphone, or simply $1000 worth of goods. At the last stopping point of the UPS truck, they get a flat tire before being able to deliver it. Your iphone delivery is unexpectedly delayed for a day. How much damage has been caused? What if it's two days? Six days? There's just a big fat "this isn't how it works" attached to this $58bn figure. Edit: For context since parent comment was deleted, this refers to istheshipstillstuck.com's estimate of $58bn worth of damages being caused by the ship being stuck.
    • Karunamon 6y ago
      Delivery to end customers is not equivalent to delivery as part of a supply chain. Instead of $1K of iPhones, think of it as $1Mn worth of components for a manufacturing process or items to be placed on a shelf. Many of those items' shipping timeframes are well-known and factored into calculations of supply and demand. If a customer wants to buy something from you and you're out of stock, they're generally not going to sit on their hands and wait patiently, they're going to buy from your competitors or not at all. That money is gone. Also, consider that we're at the end of a financial quarter, and this could also account for missed targets for all manner of industry.
      • scrollaway 6y ago
        So what you're saying is, "it's complicated"?
• mckirk 6y ago
  I suppose the Suez Canal is going to find out what rush-hour traffic is like.
• Stormwalker 6y ago
  Any info how it was freed? Article does not mention any solutions.
  • vnxli 6y ago
    WSJ posted an article with some more detail. TLDR; high tide and dredging https://www.wsj.com/articles/ship-blocking-suez-canal-is-partially-freed-11616989503?mod=hp_lead_pos5 https://www.wsj.com/articles/ship-blocking-suez-canal-is-par...
    • el_duderino 6y ago
      https://archive.is/DD9PB https://archive.is/DD9PB
• bnralt 6y ago
  It's worth looking at the discussion of the ship just three days ago on Hacker News[1]. A lot of what people thought was true (that it would be stuck there for weeks, being dismissive of using tugboats to pull it out) didn't pan out as expected. Just a reminder that we should always take what we read with a grain of salt, and that it's fine to reserve judgement and see what will actually happen after the initial media storm passes. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282
  • jeremymcanally 6y ago
    Also, if we’re being honest, a pack of software nerds on a website don’t have the deep expertise on every topic like they think they do (speaking as a software nerd on a website myself :)). The stuff that gets posted here sometimes is...fascinating.
    • craftinator 6y ago
      To be fair, there were a number of people chiming in who were claiming to be experienced in that area (ex Navy captains, people who did dredging ops, etc). One of the big things that changed the timeline was that the highest tide of the month occurred yesterday; if not, I imagine that ship would be stuck for another month!
      • gameswithgo 6y ago
        Being expert in adjacent domains is sometimes worse than being clueless. The ratio of actual to assumed expertise seems to get worse. Navy captains vs shipping boats, geologists vs climate scientists, programmers vs cpu design, etc etc. You can very easily not understand subtleties, comment on a thing, and then people listen to you.
        • xxs 6y ago
          >programmers vs cpu design You went a bit too far. I'd presume a lot of programmers do know CPU architecture well. While not common some of them to work on boring web platforms, some still do. Also most CPU architects would be decent programmers to begin with. Programming has not changed all that much and it was not so long time ago that programmers routinely knew assembly and how many cycles (and bytes) each opcode took... Nowadays it might be regarded as an arcane art by most, of course.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• ziml77 6y ago
  I wonder how much the couple of excavators helped. I saw people on HN saying having two measly excavators was just to give the appearance of doing something and not an actual attempt to get the boat unstuck. But when I saw a photo of the digging, it looked like there was some serious progress made.
  • mhb 6y ago
    I wonder how they think the canal was created.
    • OskarS 6y ago
      I’m actually really curious about this! It was built in the mid 19th century, was there excavators then? Or was it shovels and manpower? I looked on wikipedia hoping to find some info, but was sadly disappointed. I would TOTALLY read an in depth article on how, practically, the Suez canal was actually built.
      • nicoburns 6y ago
        "Construction began in April 1859, and at first digging was done by hand with picks and shovels wielded by forced laborers. Later, European workers with dredgers and steam shovels arrived" https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/suez-canal-opens https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/suez-canal-opens
        • herendin2 6y ago
          Depiction of a steam dregdger working on the Suez Canal https://www.alamy.com/suez-dredgers-canal-build-dig-excavate-lock-steam-steamer-sail-ship-image6210051.html https://www.alamy.com/suez-dredgers-canal-build-dig-excavate...
      • SirLotsaLocks 6y ago
        I'd imagine a lot of explosions too. Most big excavation back then used explosions but also a lot of individual manpower as well.
• JimWestergren 6y ago
  "Helped by the peak of high tide, the flotilla of tugboats managed to wrench the bow of the stranded Ever Given from the canal’s sandy bank, where it had been firmly lodged since last Tuesday." - https://www.vesselfinder.com/news/20501-Ever-Given-is-Finally-Free-and-under-way https://www.vesselfinder.com/news/20501-Ever-Given-is-Finall...
  • rodiger 6y ago
    Isn't it the Evergreen? Edit: Thank you for all the corrections, will leave this up for anyone else that's curious.
    • marcos100 6y ago
      Evergreen is the company, Ever given is the boat.
    • arthurcolle 6y ago
      Evergreen is the name of the company, all of their ships have an Ever prefix. This one is called the Ever Given
    • deleted 6y ago
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    • deleted 6y ago
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    • bellyfullofbac 6y ago
      Evergreen is a huge Taiwanese shipping company, Ever Given is the name of this particular ship. There are probably several dozen ships around the world with the words "Evergreen" on its side.
    • swader999 6y ago
      Evergreen is the shipping company, ever given is the name of the ship
    • kaybe 6y ago
• divbzero 6y ago
  A bit more detail here [1] and here [2]. A combination of vacuuming sand, high tide, and tugboats did the trick. [1]: https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2021/03/29/Suez-Canal-traffic-resumes-after-Ever-Given-ship-refloated-Official https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2021/03/29/Su... [2]: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/29/ever-given-turned-80-percent-in-right-direction-live-news https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/29/ever-given-turned-8...
  • hinkley 6y ago
    Is it just me or is the Evergiven listing to port?
    • dghlsakjg 6y ago
      Entirely possible. The tugs are hooked up pretty high so that could be part of it. The other part is that they may have intentionally shifted ballast or fuel to induce a port list to assist the salvage.
    • rtkwe 6y ago
      There were reports I read earlier that part of the unsticking process was pumping fuel and ballast water around to remove as much weight as possible from the bow of the ship. It's probably unbalanced the ship a bit and they're just waiting to get to the lake to pause and fix it to allow shipping to resume as fast as possible.
    • Cthulhu_ 6y ago
      I'm only seeing that on two pictures, and in both there's a tugboat attached to the top front of the ship pulling it sideways.
• fblp 6y ago
  Some videos of boats celebrating by honking their horns here. You can't really see the boat moving, but I hope someone's filmed a timelapse! https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/suez-canal-ship-evergreen-freed-horns-celebrate-boat-moving-2021-3%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/suez-ca...
  • mwgarcia 6y ago
    Here's a somewhat good compilation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovWoznPIBhw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovWoznPIBhw
• pqb 6y ago
  I wish to see a satellite photos to see a traffic jam from the above. It is definitely not too common to see that many ships waiting in queue to entry the Suez canal [0]. [0]: https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:32.3/centery:31.5/zoom:11 https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:32.3/cente...
  • ZeKZ 6y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/mf705v/ships_waiting_for_the_suez_canal_to_open/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/mf705... https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/meopv9/satellite_view_of_the_ships_lining_up_at_the_suez/ https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/meopv9/s...
    • zodiakzz 6y ago
      That's Bay of Bengal, not Suez. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sujeeva-salwatura-49341a36_fascinating-site-witnessed-early-hours-yesterday-activity-6770222582080786432-w-lv https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sujeeva-salwatura-49341a36_fa...
• JosephRedfern 6y ago
  Lots of articles quote a $XXX billion dollars per day figure, but those numbers are normally for "worth of goods delayed" which, while interesting, doesn't tell the story to me. Are there any estimates as to the actual cost of this "mishap", due to e.g. spoilage, financial/contractual repercussions of late deliveries, personnel/fuel costs?
  • iujjkfjdkkdkf 6y ago
    Agreed that just quoting the delayed value does not tell the whole story. But it could be a pretty good proxy: to some approximation, everything in the supply chain would be set up to work with the 9.6 Bn daily flow of value - everybody's financing payments, payroll, working capital, etc. The time is gone. Just like if you had to take two weeks off (unpaid) because you were sick, you could work more later to get that money back, and recover some of it if you work overtime, but you still missed that window to make money.
  • ufmace 6y ago
    Probably the actual cost will require an army of accountants and lawyers at a dozen major logistics corporations arguing with each other for months to even try to compute. I doubt us regular uninvolved people will ever get a "real" number. How do you even try to calculate and reveal the cost associated with say a manufacturer in the middle of a supply chain deciding to source their parts from a different vendor for this run because their usual source was delayed due to the Suez blockage and they didn't want to leave their factory idle?
    • ape4 6y ago
      Perhaps adding up all the penalties all the delayed ships have to pay could cover it.
    • chipsambos 6y ago
      Agree it's incalculable, I don't mean that in the "it's too big of a number" sort of way but in the "we can't possibly know" kind of way: 1) The scale and depth of the disruption makes it impractical to figure in any kind of accurate way and 2) The disruption will have introduced hypotheticals that nay spiral out themselves (butterfly effect style) e.g. some retailer may have lost a customer who went elsewhere, some supplier may have lost a retailer who went elsewhere, etc
• rodiger 6y ago
  Does Evergreen get fined for something like this? Is there enforceable law here? Or just say sorry and life goes on?
  • BurningFrog 6y ago
    Ships going through the canal are commanded by Egyption pilots, so it's doubtful that Evergreen has any responsibility. That would make the Egyptian government responsible. But I'd be stunned if it paid or apologized to anyone.
    • rsstack 6y ago
      Suez Canal policy (enforced by contracts) removes liability from the Authority and its pilots. Also worth noting that the pilots don't control the helm directly. That doesn't mean it wasn't their fault :) We may never know.
  • kevstev 6y ago
    Iirc, the actual captain does not pilot through the harbor, there are specific pilots that take your vessel through. So it seems unlikely that there would be any liability to the ship crew or owner.
    • zeristor 6y ago
      YouTube video by Cheif Makoi pointed out that the Master of the ship is responsible for any issue caused by the ship, even if commanded by a pilot. https://youtu.be/ltdHRdtEHE4 https://youtu.be/ltdHRdtEHE4 Obviously I am not a legal expert
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
• foxes 6y ago
  What a surprise it didn’t need nuclear ordinance or building giant elaborate dams or millions of helicopters.
  • faefox 6y ago
    Pretty disappointing, honestly.
  • neogodless 6y ago
    We wanted the hero to be a Death Star, but in the end it was just the moon.
  • hilbert42 6y ago
    It's been blocked before but for a lot longer (from late 1956 to early 1957—about five months) during the Suez Crisis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis That was a really big deal—more so than this one, I still remember the daily radio news reports and huge newspaper headlines from when I was a young kid. It was an international crisis that dragged on for months and months.
    • pbourke 6y ago
      It was closed for 8 years after the 6 day war.
      • hilbert42 6y ago
        Yeah, right. I recall that too, it got to the point where shipping had gotten used to taking the long way around. Towards the end, everyone had become so used to the fact (and the delays) that we'd almost forgotten the canal existed. Maybe there's now some virtue in dusting off the old proposal for second canal route via Israeli territory (of course, sans the nukes this time).
    • gerikson 6y ago
      The canal was closed between 1967 and 1975, and some ships had bad timing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Fleet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Fleet
• exikyut 6y ago
  Oh hey, they fixed it, - without destroying or imposing significant additional damage to any of the cargo - without destroying or imposing significant additional damage to the ship - without taking multiple weeks - without needing to ship a trillion dollars'+ worth of equipment halfway around the world It's refreshing to see high-end engineering performed so competently.
  • JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    About the cargo part - it's entirely possible that some cargo is non-viable. It is going to be onboard days longer than predicted. Anything even faintly perishable may be degraded. But good news for sure!
    • ceejayoz 6y ago
      It's already a trip halfway around the world at something like 30 km/h. If you're transporting goods that are that sensitive, you're likely doing it by air already. Ships get delayed all the time for various reasons.
      • mwgarcia 6y ago
        The ship will still likely be anchored for hull inspection, perhaps in Bitter Lake. That may take a couple of days at best, and an indefinite stranding if serious problems are discovered. Also crew change is likely because of on-going investigations, and that will be tricky with the on-going mariner crunch. There's not a lot who are qualified to run a ULCV, especially one straight out of an accident.
        • m4rtink 6y ago
          In the past ships already got stuck on the Bitter Lake - for quite some time! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Fleet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Fleet
          • 6y ago
• cwhiz 6y ago
  That's too bad. Now the hysterical media will have to find something else to get worked up about.
  • Robotbeat 6y ago
    Oh, this was actually a fun disaster compared to almost anything else! If only we could live in a world where the worst international news story is a big boat being temporarily stuck with people making silly memes about it.
    • cwhiz 6y ago
      It's not that it wasn't fun. It's that the media goes into absurd hyperbole on every subject. This boat was going to be stuck for weeks, and maybe forever! ...and now they'll shift to absurd hyperbole on some other topic that is potentially more damaging.
      • krisoft 6y ago
        The company tasked to salvage the ship said that they will use dredgers and tugs and will try to pull the ship free. They also said that if that doesn't work they will have to lighten the ship, which can take weeks. After that it was entirely fair and true to report that "it might take weeks to get the ship unstuck." Just because we got lucky and the simpler, faster, plan worked doesn't make such reporting hyperbolic.
        • cwhiz 6y ago
          The company said they could have it out within days, or it could take weeks. So what do media organizations report? "Suez Canal could be blocked for weeks." Always err on the side of hyperbole and extreme negativity.
  • jasperry 6y ago
    I, for one, was thankful that we had something relatively non-polarizing in the news to discuss. "Stuck boat needs to get unstuck" is the kind of practical problem that people on both sides of the fence can agree on :)
• bArray 6y ago
  It's not free yet [1]... Still time for something to go wrong. For example, it's entirely possible they did hull damage whilst dragging it out. [1] https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9811000 https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9811000
  • ceejayoz 6y ago
    It's free and has moved up the canal quite a bit now.
    • bArray 6y ago
      It seems to be out of immediate danger, but the canal is much longer after the rest-area. I imagine they'll pull it aside to inspect the hull in this area to ensure it won't sink further up the canal?
• turing_complete 6y ago
  Good thing hacker news doesn't run large civil engineering projects.
  • abhiminator 6y ago
    That thread was a good chuckle though -- a bunch of mostly software devs brainstorming on freeing one of the biggest containers ships from their comfy armchairs. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282
    • rovr138 6y ago
      I learned how not to get rid of a whale at least. In case I’m ever asked about that...
      • croutonwagon 6y ago
        "The remaining chunks were of such a size, no respectable seagull would attempt to tackle anyway." This guy assume gull's are respectable. Man I hope this guy had an amazing career, because that was an awesome report.
    • foxes 6y ago
      Yes some of the options would have been fairly spectacular at least.
  • IgorPartola 6y ago
    You know, I used to think that HN was a collection of some of the smartest people on the Internet. Don’t get me wrong, there are some incredible people here. But I guess what I have learned over the past 10 years is that HN has as many blind spots as any other online forum. If you want SV advice, this is the place to be. If you want to dislodge a stuck mega ship, look elsewhere.
    • Grakel 6y ago
      HN is a lot of amazing experts in a particular subject mostly talking about something else. It's fascinating in this way.
• Trasmatta 6y ago
  I honestly love that it was freed using the "boring" solution. No need for any of the crazy solutions people proposed on the internet. Just careful and measured execution of proven techniques.
  • tgv 6y ago
    Not surprised. It's directly available, and there's a lot of experience. And the consequences and costs are known. But probably other companies were already working on alternatives. I wouldn't be surprised if Elon would send a small, custom built sub next week.
    • VBprogrammer 6y ago
      Is that before or after he tells the guy in charge of the salvage operation to shove the sub up his backside and go back to fiddling children?
      • iab 6y ago
        Precedent is after i believe
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  • mwgarcia 6y ago
    It's the only practical solution really. Cranes - Likely on a barge, on a relatively narrow canal. That's quite precarious. And make that two for both sides (canal is impassable). Heavy lift helicopters - Even the few multiple automated cranes capable of handling a ship this size take days to unload it. Also these helicopters are quite expensive to operate. Floatation devices - See Costa Concordia salvage operations. Lots of consideration for structural stress. Lots of mounting points on the ship. Lots of actual engineering needed for the floatation devices themselves.
    • dev_tty01 6y ago
• ldb 6y ago
  Had to think of that Simpson's episode where MacGyver appears and says something like "Don't thank me, thank the gravitational pull of the moon". Well, it seems that that line wasn't complete nonsense at all :-)
• sophacles 6y ago
  Anyone got a contact there? https://suezcanal.statuspage.io/ https://suezcanal.statuspage.io/ is still showing down.
• pradn 6y ago
  A great Twitter thread with many articles/resources if you want a critical lens at the global logistics supply chain. https://twitter.com/CharmaineSChua/status/1375868552129863681?s=20 https://twitter.com/CharmaineSChua/status/137586855212986368... I found this article on the impact on super-sized ships on logistical infrastructure useful and fascinating. It describes how the creation of ships too big to fit in the Panama canal (post-PANAMAX ships) was received by 1) Panamanians 2) East Coast / Gulf Coast ports 3) West Coast ports. The Panamanians spent billions expanding their channel to bring port fees and promote attendant value-add services. Ports across the East and Gulf coasts overinvested in trying to make their port the preferred one for these new ships. Clearly, not every port can recoup investments in higher cranes and deeper harbors. There was an irrational optimism on the East Coast, as they sought to take business away from West Coast transhippers (dock in Southern California and ship to the east by train.) In response, the West Coast logistics industry sought and received a series of infrastructure improvements to make transshipment from their ports viable. So, just a few shipping companies are able to increase the size of their ships (for economies of scale) and end up having a major impact on billions of investment dollars in more than a dozen cities. Policy makers in the US aren't able to pick just a few cities to focus investment in. How can you tell a city that they aren't going to get those jobs? Perhaps the US should set a maximum ship size to prevent this wastage of resources; but one could argue the efficiencies for consumers could be worth it. https://www.ijurr.org/article/fungible-space-competition-and-volatility-in-the-global-logistics-network/ https://www.ijurr.org/article/fungible-space-competition-and... The size of these ships keeps increasing at an astonishing rate. See the chart in this excellent talk: https://youtu.be/gdkvAXcZD7U?t=892 https://youtu.be/gdkvAXcZD7U?t=892 Moreover, the hydrodynamic effects of these large ships in relatively shallow and narrow canals is underappreciated. We're liable to see more such incidents as ships get bigger and bigger. https://www.ft.com/content/171c92ec-0a44-4dc5-acab-81ee2620d3c1 https://www.ft.com/content/171c92ec-0a44-4dc5-acab-81ee2620d...
  • beastialityking 6y ago
    You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.
  • HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
    >the hydrodynamic effects of these large ships in relatively shallow and narrow canals is underappreciated I'm really surprised I haven't seen this mentioned. A long time ago, I was trained as a merchant ship's navigation officer. One of the things we were taught (but unfortunately had few opportunities to practice), was using "bank cushion" or "bank suction" to use the hydraulic interaction between the hull and a narrow body of water like a river to navigate tight curves. These days, there are simulations that I'm sure capture these effects to it's easier to get some experience with them. Of course, in the case of the Ever Given it seems that the grounding was mainly due to not compensating for the strong cross winds.
• megous 6y ago
  I hope they'll give priority to ships with living animals that reported that they have feed just for a few days, and not just to whoever pays the most. Backlog will probably still take some time to clear.
• EricE 6y ago
  “ Oil prices remained volatile, however, amid concerns to the time it may take to clear the almost 500 ship backlog and expectations that OPEC members will hold their production cut agreement in place following their monthly meeting in Vienna later this week.” Such a perfect time for Democrats to play politics with energy. Wheee! Everyone get ready to bend over.
  • lostcolony 6y ago
    I mean...the largest increase, and the longest year-to-year increase of gas prices in the past 30 years happened 2002-2008, which was hardly Democrat controlled. Prior to that they were basically flat since 1990. The past two presidents saw an increase the first half of their years in office (4 years for Obama, 2 years for Trump), and a drop the last half. Not really sure a political conclusion is warranted here.
  • dang 6y ago
    Please don't take HN threads into partisan flamewar. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26621850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26621850.
• beansontoast 6y ago
  boo!
• cybert00th 6y ago
  Er, this party ain't over 'til the weight-challenged lady's cleared the exit door
• zeristor 6y ago
  I do hope it tooted its horn to celebrate.
• dksf 6y ago
  Free as in beer?
• GoodJokes 6y ago
  Just yesterday they said it would take weeks. I feel like a lot of the messaging prior to it being unstuck might have been...constructed for financial reasons?
• bluehazed 6y ago
  I still think they should have added another ship.
  • bluehazed 6y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PLzaSEj-GY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PLzaSEj-GY
• TedShiller 6y ago
  Funny how all the HN armchair experts kept telling everyone that the difficulty of this is vastly underestimated, and how people don’t understand “scale”.
• SubiculumCode 6y ago
  I do believe that this incident was a demonstration of how easy it would be to disrupt the world economy via terror.
• NicoJuicy 6y ago
  For those who are wondering. The canal is shallow at the sides, for a ship as this, this creates a suction when it's not in the middle. The captain wasn't going straight ( zigzag) and while he wanted to get out of the suction on the left side, the ship turned way too much to the right. There's a really good animation here at 1:03 in the video ( dutch): https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2021/03/29/zeevaartschool-maakt-simulatie-van-incident/ https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2021/03/29/zeevaartschool-maakt... Video is talking about a "sea driving school" that simulated the incident in their simulator. My info above is the Dutch information required to see the video from 1:03 till after the animation.
• pagade 6y ago
  Nice gif showing the ship movement on FleetMon: https://twitter.com/yukihilog/status/1376377678626844676 https://twitter.com/yukihilog/status/1376377678626844676
• Ansil849 6y ago
  So was the reason the ship became stuck because it was drawing a penis shape in its course path? Or was it getting stuck unrelated?
• oftheoaks 6y ago
  shame
• mrlonglong 6y ago
  I was wondering about the sheer size of those ships. Could they get even bigger than 400 metres? Is there a limit?
  • erostrate 6y ago
    From this (very good) FT article https://www.ft.com/content/171c92ec-0a44-4dc5-acab-81ee2620d3c1 https://www.ft.com/content/171c92ec-0a44-4dc5-acab-81ee2620d... "But the specific engineering of container ships mean that they can’t get longer; they have to get wider. An oil tanker is a shoe box with a lid: hull on the bottom, oil in the middle, deck on top. But a container ship is a shoebox without a lid: hull on the bottom, then containers all the way up. It’s not as strong without the lid. There are definitely hydrodynamic forces in the open ocean, it’s just that the ocean is usually in charge of them. And the biggest stress on a ship’s hull in heavy weather happens along the longitudinal bending moment — lengthwise, between the bow and the stern. The longer a ship gets, the worse the stress gets when a wave pushes up in the wrong place. As far as length goes for container ships, “we are at the limitations of welding and steel quality,” says Lataire. “I will not say that it is impossible to weld thicker plates, but in a way this is the economic limit.”
  • jokoon 6y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/7r85ji/ship_flexing_in_heavy_seas/ https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/7r85ji/s...
• jtwaleson 6y ago
  Interesting. If I see correctly on https://www.vesselfinder.com/ https://www.vesselfinder.com/ there are three big ships going into the canal north to south now. Seems a bit inefficient! To speak in TCP terms, they should increase their window size!
  • jtwaleson 6y ago
    I take that back, that was just for a couple of minutes. The windows size is actually huge!
• bruiseralmighty 6y ago
  Guess I was wrong. Glad that didn't become a bigger issue.
• dang 6y ago
  The major threads appear to be: Giant Ship Is Moved To and Fro to Break Suction: Suez Update - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26617430 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26617430 - March 2021 (229 comments) Ever Given Everywhere - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26617081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26617081 - March 2021 (63 comments) Ever Given Ships Erratic Route into Suez Canal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26603778 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26603778 - March 2021 (37 comments) Ever Given Container Ship Fan Fiction - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26593708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26593708 - March 2021 (33 comments) HMM Rotterdam appears to be diverting to avoid congestion at Suez - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26590105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26590105 - March 2021 (49 comments) The bank effect and the big boat blocking the Suez - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26586866 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26586866 - March 2021 (92 comments) Suez Canal: How are they trying to free the Ever Given? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26586278 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26586278 - March 2021 (83 comments) It 'Might Take Weeks' to Free Ship Stuck in Suez Canal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585480 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585480 - March 2021 (51 comments) Is that ship still stuck? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282 - March 2021 (1229 comments) Suez canal blocked by a massive ship - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26560319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26560319 - March 2021 (426 comments) Others?
  • Denvercoder9 6y ago
    Is that ship still stuck? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585282 - March 2021 (1230 comments)
    • dang 6y ago
      Ah thanks! Inserted.
• garaetjjte 6y ago
  I'm somewhat disappointed we didn't get to observe huge container lifting operation. https://xkcd.com/611/ https://xkcd.com/611/
• doogerdog 6y ago
  They got traffic flowing sooner than I guessed they could. Three container ships and a livestock carrier have left Bitter lake and are entering the channel right now, heading for Suez. The third one in the group is the Ever Globe, the same size as the stuck ship. I had thought it would take most of today to make sure the channel was clear for the deepest draught vessels. The dredge crews must have done a good job keeping their discharge out of the main channel. Vesselfinder.com is a hoot to follow for this kind of disaster.
  • hinkley 6y ago
    > The third one in the group is the Ever Globe, the same size as the stuck ship. What could go wrong.
• johncessna 6y ago
  So, did they let it into the Canal, or did it go to the back of the line?
  • doogerdog 6y ago
    The ever given was towed north to bitter lake and is anchored there with two other vessels attending it. The ever globe is the third vessel in the first convoy south from bitter lake to Suez. The first two vessels have passed the location of the accident. The ever globe is the same size as ever given and is right now very slowly passing the place where ever given was stuck.
• jacquesm 6y ago
  Score one for Boskalis. Those tugs are very impressive.
• lmilcin 6y ago
  Now, understand all those ships will take a long time to pass the canal and then even longer time processing at their ports of destination which will also have their schedules completely disrupted. Does anybody know at what percentage of capacity the canal usually operates?
  • kzrdude 6y ago
    Apparently they are going to double throughput for the next few days compared to normal traffic, so they had some spare capacity.
    • lmilcin 6y ago
      Double throughput means it will still take about 4-5 days to clear the backlog (new ships are arriving and queuing up even as the backlog is being cleared).
    • rocqua 6y ago
      Is that mostly a matter of going for longer convoys on the sections where ships in opposite directions cannot pass?
• scumcity 6y ago
  Fortunately TWTR's market cap is worth more than a solution to problems like this because...
• markherring 6y ago
  has anyone done the analysis based on the backlog of ships waiting to pass whether it is worth going around Africa? ie. If you are #130+ in the backlog go around?
• MarkMc 6y ago
  Suez Canal Authority makes $5.6 billion per year, so a week's loss of throughput would be in the order of $100 million.
  • eCa 6y ago
    But most of the put will go through in the end, only the ones that chose to go the long way round will be the actual loss. Barring any delay discounts of course (if that is a thing).
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• itismetheidiot 6y ago
  Some feedback that will help better understanding of costs. 1. A medium size container vessel (10k TEUS) with abt 15kts speeds will cost the same as the canal transit cost now that the fuel is relatively cheap, compared to the Africa voyage. But you save time. 2. Major liners (APM, MSC, etc), enjoy significant discounts over face value for the canal transits as they commit volumes. The discounts could be north of 30%+, but not publicly available. WILHELMSEN has a nice calculator 3. There is no scenario that something cannot be monetized, either it will be fuel or time or both. As such any financial loss due to the canal clocking can be calculated. The vessel’s P&I will be very busy.