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Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.
- berserkpi 10y agoHere is an opinion of a Mexican guy. I remember back in the day when Mexican president Carlos Salinas promoted the NAFTA deal as a solution to our problems. I started to disagree when reason came to me (I was too young when it happened), few reasons: - I believed in a more protectionist system that encouraged internal growth. I still do to a point. - Trading is good as long as you don't compromise internal production and employment. NAFTA is way too aggressive in this sense. - It will triggered this bad "us-american?" behavior of consumerism and materialism. Well, here we are 22 years after and it's evident the system got exhausted, even for US-Americans who were supposed to be the strong link in this chain. Is killing NAFTA a good idea? maybe. I don't know. We are so deep into these waters that it has to be a small "chunk by chunk" change, and even so, it'll be chaos. What I am sure we need, is to find a new balance, going all protectionist will be a huge mistake, just like this crazy aggressive neoliberalism that allowed companies behave irresponsible. Believe me, the consequences of this 20+ years trade system in Mexico are massive. Wait, I'm not a pro-Trump crazy Mexican, keep reading. As I said, we need a new balance. To my eyes, Trump is an extremist and a dangerous man, he doesn't sound or act like a guy that could bring this balance. I think USA voters made a huge mistake on electing him. But, at the same time, they had 2 very poor choices. They just chose the worst one. The years to come will be interesting ones... that is given.
- smegel 10y agoEvery pollster/pundit quit your job now. Edit: I know, not EVERY one of them.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- pfortuny 10y agoWhere are the Nate Silver fans right now?
- y_u_no_rust 10y agoSilver is and always was a total cuck
- andars 10y agoHello. Pretty disappointed.
- ori_b 10y agoStill here. Nate Silver's models were some of the most generous towards Trump's chances of winning out there.
- adt2bt 10y agoHonestly, I'm still a fan. He, unlike most other models, gave Trump a healthy shot and cautioned repeatedly that a large polling miss was possible this year. That's pretty much what happened.
- nl 10y agoI'm here. I think he came out of this with his reputation enhanced: he gave Trump a 28% chance of winning the morning of the election which was vastly more than any other model. I think about polling and forecasting a lot, and I've concluded that the presentation of forecasts is a big problem. People often seem to conflate "30% chance" with "30% of the vote" which is clearly wrong - or something like this anyway. Silver went though the last month going "25% is a big chance!!" and no one really listened. I'm not sure what a better way to express it is though.
- nilkn 10y agoTo be fair, he was consistently significantly less favorable towards Clinton than any of the other high profile models. He even took quite a bit of flak for this in the weekend leading up to the election, but he stood his ground. While he was ultimately wrong, he was closer than mostly anyone else running a serious model.
- Klockan 10y agoWho would have thought that people are reluctant to express controversial opinions in a live phone interview?
- dudul 10y agoA lot of polls predicted this outcome. They were just not taken seriously or given visibility in the media.
- ZenoArrow 10y agoThe thing is, the actions of those pundits worked in Trump's favour. Clinton was seen as a political insider, any one-sided story could be seen by Trump supporters as the establishment trying to protect one of their own. I lost count of the number of YouTube videos with one-sided Trump bashing leaving people in the comments saying it made them more likely to vote for Trump.
- survivingtrump 10y agohttp://www.survivingtrump.com http://www.survivingtrump.com
- douche 10y agoScott Adams called it.
- rorykoehler 10y agoMillions of Bernie supporters did too.
- redial 10y agoPeter Thiel is not looking so foolish right now...
- rch 10y agoGive it time.
- simonh 10y agoIt depends what Thiel's objectives are. If they are purely self serving, he might do very well out of this.
- thesimpsons1022 10y agono more palantir racial discrimination lawsuit.
- jedmeyers 10y ago> It depends what Thiel's objectives are. SCOTUS nomination?
- yoklov 10y agoHonestly, as someone who finds the current situation a bit abhorrent, and who generally disagrees with most things I've heard come out of Thiel's mouth, there are way worse choices. He has knowledge of the tech sector and doesn't want to ruin it, he isn't anti-science, he's gay (and thus pro-gay rights), etc. That said, I think it's profoundly unlikely, since unless I'm not aware of it, he'd be the only supreme court justice with no legal background.
- M_Grey 10y agoThe man who thinks that young blood (literally) is going to keep him alive? That Peter Thiel? Yes he does.
- jules 10y ago
- nightcracker 10y agoMy condolences.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- michaelvoz 10y agoBeen living in the Bay Area for 17 years. Nothing will change.
- andars 10y ago.
- Niksko 10y agoUnless you're gay, a woman, or part of a minority. Then your situation is that the leader of the free world is at best openly dismissive of you, and at worst actively encourages hate towards you.
- Oletros 10y agoSad day for the planet Earth if he abides at his promises about EPA, NOAA, Paris Agreement, etc
- michaeldorian 10y agoYes.
- allemagne 10y agoI suppose we'll all see what he "really" meant by everything he has ever said during his campaign. Wall with Mexico? NATO? Putting Hillary in jail? Killing the families of ISIS members? It makes sense to put the likelihood of any of that happening at a solid zero but it's hard to trust intuition at this point.
- chasing 10y ago:-(
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- sho_hn 10y agoSo as a European ... Clinton didn't spend enough time in the Upper Midwest expecting to carry those states, but Trump had an actual message for them (NAFTA, etc.) while Hillary didn't, and they don't care that he is racist and sexist, they want their jobs back, so the election was called by a 40+ white demo in an economically depressed region just like old Middle England called Brexit. About right?
- hubert123 10y agohe is not racist nor sexist
- thomasahle 10y agoUpper Midwest? Wasn't it just a question of Florida and North Carolina?
- xienze 10y agoNot exactly. He needed those states assuming he didn't win WI, MI, PA, OH. Which he did. Trump blew it out the water.
- sho_hn 10y agoOhio, Pennsylvania, etc. are traditionally Democratic states, but it's a region Trump spent a lot of time targeting with anti-globalist messages around the decline of domestic industry. The predicted safe margin in the other direction, the narrow win, the demographic stats, the issues on the table ... it's all highly reminiscent of how I experienced Brexit.
- adt2bt 10y agoI, like many, did not see this coming and I am truly afraid for the future of the USA. We sure showed up Brexit, though.
- snag 10y agoI don't care much for america. after all they are consenting adults who voted for the best candidate they had. I am more concerned about the consequences for the rest of the world.
- thesimpsons1022 10y agogoodbye baltic states. you had a good run. im sure putin will enjoy his empire.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Scea91 10y agoAs a European I believe that massive investments into defense are necessary. I hope that we start pulling our weight in NATO now.
- Strom 10y agoI assume you're referring to Trump not being happy with NATO members freeloading on USA. Estonia spends >2% GDP on military [1] as the NATO guidelines say. Thus, at least in regards of Estonia, Trump should be satisfied. [1] US, Greece, UK, Estonia, Poland are the only NATO members who pay at least 2% GDP in 2016. http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160704_160704-pr2016-116.pdf http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_0...
- gragas 10y agoThat's exactly why I'm glad that Donald Trump will soon be our president. He will ensure we serve the American people before tending to the desires of other nations.
- fgandiya 10y agoAh well, and his party has house and Senate too. I've been looking through his policies and I'm amazed at how he won. I'm gonna be angry about this for an hour before I give find something else to do.
- prostoalex 10y ago> his party That's a fairly broad statement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_opposing_Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2016 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_opposing...
- fgandiya 10y agoFair enough, bit he ran under the Rep ticket...
- prostoalex 10y agoThat and $3.50 gets one a cup of coffee when negotiating with fellow Republican senators and congresspeople who all have their own agendas. Just ask John Boehner.
- thomasahle 10y agoHouse and Senate and the Supreme Court...
- dudul 10y agoI bet a lot of families will have an "interesting" Thanksgiving dinner.
- anuraj 10y agoBernie Sanders was the candidate who could have defeated Trump. The DNC establishment and media rigged the primaries for Clinton but failed to gauge the anger that is building - Trump is the outcome.
- ph4 10y agoIs there a clear, objective, and accurate list of the ways in which the DNC rigged the primaries? All of my searches turn up shady conspiracy web sites.
- anuraj 10y agoRigged media coverage and polls, selective voter registration, Debbie Wassermann Shultz incident, Super Delegates - too many to list.
- appreneur 10y agowow you are spot on with Bernie and Demonetisation of currency. I think I can say trump won because of independents were not allowed to vote for Bernie...effectively DNC did a self goal. Bernie is the most popular guy ever.....somehow hillary and her machinery scrwed him, independents inturn screwed her.
- royka118 10y agoHe did it his way can't fault the man on that!
- Artoemius 10y agoBrexit, then this. Life on Earth is becoming unpredictable again. A bit scary, but fun. It was way too boring.
- cooper12 10y agoIt's only "fun" if you have the privilege to not be affected by any of it.
- estefan 10y ago"Fun" in the "emboldens Russian aggression safe in the knowledge the US won't back up NATO" sense? I think this is a complete disaster for world peace. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see Europe involved in a major war with Russia in the next 2 years. If that happens China will seize the moment too. Also having someone who thinks climate change is a lie in the White House will affect everyone. He should ask the inhabitants of Delhi whether they think climate change is a lie [1]. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/08/world/asia/india-delhi-smog.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/08/world/asia/india-delhi-smo...
- blahi 10y agoThere have to be a lot of things going bad for a major war to happen. War is probably to start out in Turkey, trying to get back a chunk of the middle east back. Russia is always ready to oppose the status quo and get back influence in Eastern Europe. They do not stand a chance against the US. Even if China sees this as an opportunity to jump to (that's a VERY big if), the US can easily handle all three of them. The problem is going to be whether or not the US can count on its allies in Asia. Not because it needs the military support, they don't, but because you cannot be alone vs. the world. The population will simply not support you. As it is stands now, the US can count on its allies in Asia. No matter how much they dislike the US, they fear and hate China much, much more thanks to thousands of years of history. The status quo might change but not violently, perhaps giving influence ground in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Also losing ground in future trade/economy deals which will have a real impact on US population if it were to happen.
- ebcode 10y agobear in mind this paper is now owned by jeff bezos, and the actual results are still not in yet edit: bozos -> bezos
- andars 10y agoThe full results are not in, true. But enough are in to know that Trump has won.
- hatmatrix 10y agoThe paper doesn't confirm either, the post title is not true (yet).
- Nadya 10y agoEven Hillary privately called Trump and conceded. Not sure what you're waiting on at this point.
- ocdtrekkie 10y agoIt's been basically a done deal for about two hours now. AP, CNN, NBC, etc. have all called different states at different times, but there's really no doubt about where the rest of this is going to fall.
- jrockway 10y agoThe race isn't even close. Trump won. Don't blame Jeff Bezos for this.
- ebcode 10y agonot blaming bezos. and the spelling mistake was unintentional. just trying to keep an open mind and an awareness of media bias.
- simplemath 10y ago...
- lurker78 10y agoAmerica wins, the world wins.
- bdrool 10y agoThis event and Brexit are proof that you cannot shame people into voting how you want. Calling them bigots over and over just galvanizes them if anything.
- M_Grey 10y agoEspecially when they're bigots.
- blahi 10y agoThis is exactly the moral of the story. If you want to blame somebody for Trump, blame yourselves. Democracy, especially in the US is ruled by consensus. If 30% of the people are extremely opposed to something, like gay marriage, you cannot shove it down their throats. You cannot disregard their feelings and opinions. You just have to swallow it and move on. Because if you don't, somebody will take advantage of your foolishness.
- QUFB 10y ago40% of Alabama was opposed to interracial marriage: https://ballotpedia.org/Alabama_Interracial_Marriage,_Amendment_2_(2000) https://ballotpedia.org/Alabama_Interracial_Marriage,_Amendm... Should that be outlawed too?
- cobalt 10y agoalso about half the country was opposed to letting "all men be equal"
- xienze 10y agoAnd you know what? Eventually that changed. It takes time. The approach the left has been taking lately is to make sweeping changes that a lot of people aren't comfortable with RIGHT NOW OR ELSE YOU'RE A BIGOT AND YOU DESERVE TO HAVE YOUR LIFE RUINED. For a large portion of the population it was just too much, too fast and they had enough. Well, that's the social side of it. The rest of the election was about economic factors.
- meddlepal 10y agoDemocrats need a new strategy for middle America. Pretending the coasts and middle America are the same or can be made the same is a failure.
- adrr 10y agoWhat is the strategy for the blue collar workers? Getting rid of NAFTA and other agreements doesn't solve anything. People are getting replaced with machines and no one has come up for a solution for that. If social safety nets get removed, they'll be in a worst position.
- seanp2k2 10y agoAs others have said, this is our Brexit. The manufacturing jobs aren't coming back. The supply chains aren't here anymore. The labor is too expensive. The environmental concerns are too grave. They'll now be left with even less than they had before.
- MisterBastahrd 10y agoHad the media not made such a spectacle of Trump's candidacy early in the campaign, he never would have gotten anywhere near being the Republican nominee to begin with. They played chicken and lost.
- Kadin 10y agoBoth the Democrats, in large part, and the Republicans, in overwhelming part, made a sort of Faustian bargain starting in the early 1970s, embracing globalization in ways that were harmful to U.S. industries but, the implied promise went, would be in the long-term best interests of the country. Partially this was economic -- a bet on trade and comparative advantage -- and partially geopolitical, in that many of the early trade deals had the effect of countering Soviet influence (e.g. Nixon's famous China trip in 1972). I think it's safe to say that not everyone felt, in the decades that followed, that they benefited as a result. It's hard not to read this election, and particularly the Republican victories in formerly manufacturing-heavy areas like the upper Midwest and Appalachia, as a repudiation of this deal. Many people aren't impressed by either the alleged economic or geopolitical benefits of globalization, and they're expressing that extreme discontent at the ballot box.
- MichaelBurge 10y agoVery nice! I voted for him in Oregon, so my state is one of the few holding out.
- Beltiras 10y agoCan we stop referring to the wisdom of crowds now?
- Florin_Andrei 10y ago> Can we stop referring to the wisdom of crowds now? The crowds are "wise" on the most base, trivial issues. Now give them world-spanning complexity and crowds turn into complete idiots.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dredmorbius 10y agoHumans are anti-ants. Ants collectively are unintelligent. Collectively, the solve complex problems. Humans individually are intelligent. Collectively, they create complex problems.
- JumpCrisscross 10y agoHow does this change Silicon Valley'a relationship with Washington and the American cultural narrative? In an world where urbanisation, diversification and a global American technological hegemony are "good" American values, Silicon Valley for right in. But now our values are under fire and our titans likely liable for payback. Does this restructure the entrenched powers? Or merely force them to rebrand as rebels?
- gkya 10y agoI just want to reproduce here part of my comment on the today's AskHN regarding Trump: My interpretation of Trump is as follows, though note that I'm not american nor a close follower of US politics, or politics in general. The main concern of his is the flow of capital out of the US, be it through delocating companies or employment of cheap workforce mainly in southeastern Asia. He wants to exploit the national potential of workforce and has a more introvert, more domestic politic inclination, planning minimal involvement in international questions. And he seeks the support needed through a populist policy with a xenophobic and banale rhetoric targeting the unread american proletariat, the unemployed, and the elderly who does not appreciate the today's increasingly internationalised society and culture.
- inimino 10y agoGiven that this has been among the most polarizing campaigns ever, could a new, truly centrist third party start building support among the many "no to both" voters and have a chance in 2020? I realize it's crazy to suggest a third party could have a chance in American politics, but prove me wrong.
- scott_karana 10y agoI'm hoping for general electoral reform. The US is too large and diverse to adequately satisfy its populace with the current system.
- abraae 10y agoIn 1994 my country switched from first past the post to MMP. Incredible fear mongering was put about (and sometimes still is). But despite our near brushes with craziness (like Kim Dotcom almost buying his way into parliament) the situation now is immeasurably better than when we had political parties who did not have to compromise and cooperate. Everyone's more...reasonable. To an outsider it looks like getting rid of the two party system would be a great thing for the US.
- hyperdunc 10y agoMMP can actually over-represent minority interests by putting minor parties in power-broking positions. But I agree it's an overall improvement.
- wtallis 10y agoI don't think our system leaves room for three parties to coexist for any length of time, and with partisan identity being so strong these days the two major parties will continue to exist in name at least. But they have pivoted before, and in big ways. This Republican sweep has probably forestalled such a shift, but it'll be interesting to see which factions of the Republican party end up in conflict over the next few years, and which ones come to the fore the next time they're up against strong Democratic opponents. I think it's too soon to tell how the Republican Congress will get along with this Republican president.
- thewarrior 10y agoIt is possible to view this as an isolated event or a trend. Coming on the heels of BREXIT this is a trend. The attempts at building an interconnected globalised world are beginning to fail. A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population. Whether it is for economic reasons or just plain bigotry is something for the sociologists to study and not something I can pontificate on. Also people seem to care a LOT about immigration and preserving their culture. Instead of patronising these people it's time we tried to understand their concerns and try to assuage them. There is no genuine leftist alternative. It's a choice between center-right "left" that's sold out to the establishment and the far right.Economists need to stop acting like priests in the medieval ages who justified the existing order . The rural voter who lost his job doesn't care about the theory of comparitive advantage. If this trend holds this will soon take hold in France and other European nations. This is a return to the world of the 1920s. Not gloom and doom but a much more unstable global order with every country for itself. Not what we need when we face planet scale threats like global warming. Get out of your bubble. Hang out more on subreddits you don't agree with. The divide is bridged one person at a time. PS - Reposted my comment from another thread as it got flagged. Hope its OK with the mods. EDIT: His concession speech seems to indicate that he's beginning to appreciate what he's been entrusted with.
- jv22222 10y agoThis link submitted to HN was flagged by mods but it should not have been. It helps to explain how Trump won: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/ http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-on...
- bambax 10y agoOne of the most informative articles I have read about the divide between rural and urban America. Probably very true. Highly recommended.
- dibstern 10y agoLol what are you on about. Plenty of countries have a very multicultural society, and they do great. Look at Melbourne, Australia, we have huge immigrant populations, and all the different cultures have made this an awesome place to live - E.g. I highly doubt you'd find a more diverse selection of restaurants per capita anywhere else. This election wasn't about race. Don't project your bigotry onto all Trump supporters. And the 'world elite' is not actually the group of people that aren't racist, it's the middle class that isn't racist. The 'elite' and the 'worker class' are actually pretty similar in how bigoted they are.
- legodt 10y agoWell, time to finally arm the left
- douche 10y agoThe party of disarmament?
- nostromo 10y agoSuch a watershed moment. A few things strike me: * A Republican just won without being very religious and being wishy-washy on abortion. * The loser out-spent the winner by huge amounts. Does money really buy elections? Maybe, but not this one. * The rich abandoned Republicans, but many poor and working-class abandoned Democrats. [1] 1: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/elections/exit-poll-analysis.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/elections/e...
- woodpanel 10y agoYep. Been following the coverage since the primaries and though I don't know who I would have voted for, seeing the self righteous intelligentia being so blatantly wrong on the election outcome gives me an embarrassing satisfaction. None of the established media did even try to keep a disguise of neutrality. Not in the US, not the BBC or here in Germany. You can be against Trump all you want, but where has "journalistic standards" been gone? If your whole organization is made up of individuals who see themselves as morally-superior while being a Clinton-biased - how realistic is it that this organization is able to get a realistic glimpse at the outside world?
- sdegutis 10y agoThe media is entirely biased towards moral liberalism and I thought it was an "open secret" that only the most self-deluded didn't know about. Of course they're going to be biased towards Clinton, she's the morally liberal candidate. That's their job. If they don't go along with it, surely they get fired. They provide an avenue for confirmation bias, which is interesting because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, considering most people are liberal because of the strong influence of the (biased) media on them.
- pedalpete 10y agoI believe Fox is the most watched news channel and Fox is the 2nd most popular network behind CBS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_television_networks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_television_networks So not all media is as liberal as you say. The sad bit is that the source of media is so partisan that we only listen to what we want to hear (that goes both to the right and to the left).
- acjohnson55 10y agoThis is utter madness. If we're lucky, this wheels fall off this whole enterprise and these people are discredited before they do too much harm. It's deeply frustrating to hear so much crap analysis of what's been going on. If we're really honest with ourselves about what's happening, we're seeing a massive vote for protectionism of a particular demographics that have long enjoyed it. People talk a lot about the forgotten white working class voter. And while that's a real thing, that's only half the story. The Trump voters are on the whole wealthier than the Clinton voters. That means there are a whole bunch of people with real money who've decided they can stomach the open bigotry of Trump's campaign because they think ultimately his policies are what they want. That's why the incumbents of the GOP largely never fled his side, no matter how obscene his personal conduct. To be really blunt, Trump's entire track record says "if you're white and wealthy, I've obviously got your back", and his words have said, "if you're white and struggling, it's brown people who stand in your way". In that way, he's managed to get an extremely energetic white vote. This election will be forever remembered for just how lurid it has been. From the very beginning of the Republican primary, it's been Trump who continually lowered the bar. God help us all if we do in fact end up with literally the least qualified Commander in Chief of American history. Going to sleep now, deeply discouraged.
- hubert123 10y ago> To be really blunt, Trump's entire track record says "if you're white and wealthy, I've obviously got your back", and his words have said, "if you're white and struggling, it's brown people who stand in your way". In that way, he's managed to get an extremely energetic white vote. yeah and exactly because of this kind of insane, bogus "analysis" you lost. When or if you find back the connection to reality, you will realize how Trump actually won. By talking about real issues that nobody else even dares to touch.
- dibstern 10y agoWhat 'real issues' are you talking about? What was anyone else scared at all to touch?
- 10y ago
- l33tbro 10y agoCall Trump what you will, but he played the media like Hendrix. They took the troll-bait and reported every outrageous soundbite gleefully, all in pursuit of a few clicks and ad-bucks. Meanwhile, Trump gained more and more of a platform and eventually established a cult of personality.
- marchenko 10y agoComedians appear to have been more perceptive about Trump's appeal and Clinton's weaknesses than the media: Scott Adams and Dave Chappelle both made some salient pints this cycle. Mainstream media:0; reclusive comics:2.
- l33tbro 10y agoAgree. I was glued to Adams' observations, who called this result in August of last year (one month before Trump's first big surge).
- venomsnake 10y agoCan you provide links to Chappelle? I have read everything from Scott.
- marchenko 10y agoSome comments highlighted here, particularly the "coin-worthy" bit: http://observer.com/2016/11/dave-chappelle-defends-trump-rips-clinton-shes-not-right-and-we-all-know-it/ http://observer.com/2016/11/dave-chappelle-defends-trump-rip... He seems to have understood the uneasy feeling voters got from Clinton.
- estefan 10y agoGiven all the barefaced lies told during the Brexit campaign and the US campaign it does lead to questions about democracy, i.e. should the average man on the street really decide? To be sure I'm not advocating Communism but perhaps up until 20 years ago the lack of social media helped contain outright lies and extreme views, perhaps with people asking the intellectual(s) in their social circles about candidates. There was also the social engineering aspect of TV soaps (e.g. featuring gay characters to make homosexuality more accepted). Social media has done away with that and allows anyone to broadcast to the world. The media report the lies and it's impractical to research everything politicians say. Even if someone reports that the lie was a lie, by then the damage is done. Trump played this game all the way through. He knew what he said would be reported far more than the accuracy of the statements. This result raises a lot of questions, few of which I suspect will be answered and will lead to even fewer changes I imagine.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ipsin 10y agoI have to readjust my own mental model of what it means to be an American. It's not the end of the world, but shit, what happens to the Supreme Court will have implications for the next few decades.
- kowdermeister 10y agoFinally, somebody who will guarantee the future of the internet. He will totally get net neturality and stuff. [irony shield activated]
- sorokod 10y agoPeoples of eastern Europe may want to brush up on their Russian.
- jrockway 10y agoWho knew that not paying any taxes, asking your "second amendment people" to finish off your opponent, and using your position of power and authority to sexually assault people could lead to becoming the most powerful person in the free world. We live in the darkest of times.
- reitanqild 10y agoUpvoted. At the same time: Who knew that: * cheating against wildly popular Sanders, * being partly responsible for recent wars, * have your campaign talking like many of your opponents (and a good number of potential voters) are dumb racists wouldn't be a surefire way to get elected? Edit: last bullet, blame it on campaign instead of her personally, also most->many
- gragas 10y agoYou're delusional. Trump has paid more in taxes than you will make in your entire life. Perhaps not income taxes, but some form or another. He'd be in jail if he broke the law.
- komali2 10y ago>He'd be in jail if he broke the law Let's see, which should I pick for this particular occasion of encountering this fallacy... we've got the US housing crisis, US war crimes and torture, NSA spying... hmm so many choices.
- mcv 10y ago> He'd be in jail if he broke the law. Unless he bribes the prosecutor, of course.
- mikeyouse 10y agoYes, we all know that the extremely wealthy who break financial laws always see justice and punishment.
- quonn 10y agoHe made his money within a society. Money is not necessarily adding value (increasing the pie), it is also just shifted around. If his income were distributed more equally between many others who would instead pay taxes, the amount of taxes would be far, far higher.
- pcglue 10y agoSeeing that bozo at the podium as president-elect, I really feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
- ctvo 10y agoGrew up in the US. I'm a minority. I think this is the only time in my life I've ever felt like I didn't belong in America. Tonight a large portion of the country confirmed that the US is for whites. That it's not a melting pot. This demographic has been angry for a generation because they've felt like their culture, their socio-economic status and way of life is slipping away and this election (after 8 years of a black president), the line in the sand would be drawn. The numbers don't show any division in voting based on class, but an entire chunk of whites (women, men, making under or over 100k+ a year, college education or not), all voting for Donald Trump. I don't know what the future looks like now for America.
- joatmon-snoo 10y agoDisagree with this, but will have more to say in the morning/day when I'm actually sober.
- steveeq1 10y ago> Tonight a large portion of the country confirmed that the US is for whites. Well, we elected a black man as a president for two terms in a row, so the country may not be as racist as people perceive.
- masklinn 10y ago> we elected a black man as a president for two terms in a row And see how the republican base and party reacted. > so the country may not be as racist as people perceive. Or the country didn't feel it could express its racism until Trump gave it a bullhorn and an endorsement.
- steveeq1 10y ago> And see how the republican base and party reacted. They reacted the exact same way any political party would react against their opponent. > Or the country didn't feel it could express its racism until Trump gave it a bullhorn and an endorsement sure they could have, by not voting for him (Obama)
- mirceasoaica 10y agoAmerica, you're fucked!
- blfr 10y agoSpeaking of tech bubble, just a few weeks ago people wanted to purge Thiel for supporting Trump.
- smackay 10y agoJeez, everybody is all bent out of shape on this. The Republican establishment hate Trump nearly as much as they hate Clinton so with Republicans controlling The House and The Senate how much "damage" is President Trump going to be able to do. The really interesting part of all this was reading Scott Adams blog who proposed the idea that Trump is a master persuader (probably this is just a fancy name for populist). He has been blogging about persuasion techniques and about cognitive biases and how humans are irrational creatures 90% of the time and are open to persuasion techniques. This seems to offend everybodies sensibilities but for me it's been fascinating and a real eye-opener. The reaction (bias?) in the media has been particularly interesting and has forever changed my world view. If you have the time it's probably worth reading the posts for the past year or so, http://blog.dilbert.com/ http://blog.dilbert.com/ It won't be so interesting now that we know the result but the ideas and methods of persuasion he talks about will shape the future for a long time to come. The cognitive dissonance being shown by the media is particularly funny. It's amazing that they really don't understand that a large percentage of the population voted for Trump because he probably represents for them a reasonable hope for change. I'm waiting for somebody to suggest that nobody actually voted for him and instead he rigged the election all by himself.
- chc 10y agoMedia bias? If anything, the media has been weirdly accommodating to Trump. Trump literally hides his tax returns and they just kind of go "Oh well, guess that's that," but they kept reporting on Clinton's emails ad nauseum no matter how many times it was established that there was nothing there. When Comey broke protocol and commented on her emails again a week ago, the story was not, "Look how the GOP is trying to rig this election with a false scandal," the front page stories were once again credulous acceptance that there was something fishy about Clinton. And when Comey once again failed to find anything, that was a much smaller story. IMO the media's hunger to appease Trump is one of the most interesting contributors to this result.
- n8n3k 10y agoTrump literally hides his tax returns and they just kind of go "we're going to break federal law to publish them"
- rafinha 10y agoBernie Sanders could have been the president, but Hillary cheated in the primaries.
- pnathan 10y agoNah, he had no chance of building a coalition outside of the white urban liberal types. anyway, he's a socialist.
- thecrazyone 10y agoI don't understand how socialist the way he describes it is a bad word. People just don't listen these days.
- thecrazyone 10y agoI don't understand how socialist the way he describes it is a bad word. People just don't listen these days.
- rafinha 10y agoThat is questionable, after all even Trump managed to do so, even if the Republican party was against him at a given point.
- snarfy 10y ago> anyway, he's a socialist. That's not a bad thing. I'm not sure why people use socialist in a pejorative manner. It reminds me of the 80s, except then the term was communist. At least then there was the cold war and in some ways communist made sense as they were the enemy, but using socialist today the same way makes no sense.
- partycoder 10y agoWell, not only that: - Trump president - Republicans won the Senate - Republicans won the House So it's going to be a very hard time to endure.
- defen 10y agoI take this as the ultimate vindication of pg's "It's Charisma, Stupid" essay from 12 years ago http://paulgraham.com/charisma.html http://paulgraham.com/charisma.html
- gre 10y agoWashington Post is a hack publication that helped to elect Trump by printing so many anti-Bernie ads as articles. Literally the worst in journalism.
- Kaedon 10y agoUgh.
- timdeneau 10y agoUnbelievable. With the House and Senate.
- mtgx 10y agoThat's what you get with a Democratic "leader" such as Hillary Clinton. She inspired no one to come to vote. Most of those that voted for her did it so Trump doesn't win. But voting against someone rather than for someone is almost always a losing strategy, proved once again today.
- sccxy 10y agoJust tell me, how all those polls got it wrong. People were afraid of telling what they really want?
- adrr 10y agoBecause it polls likely voters. The unlikely voters came out and voted.
- laichzeit0 10y agoThe LA times poll did not get it wrong.
- jonknee 10y agoYea it did, she will probably take the popular vote. It was the state polls that were the problem.
- cobalt 10y agoextrapolation
- tnmrnis 10y agoWe don't really know yet. There are two (quite likely) possible options. A shift in the voter demographics and/or the "shy tory" (people not admitting to vote conservative because a negative social consequences). Polls are never truely objective even if they try to be. You always have underlying assumptions about how to get a representative sample. The third option would be that the polls were rigged. After reading the leaked Podesta mails this doesn't seem too unlikely but still less likely then other possible reasons.
- sickbeard 10y agoFBI effect was not captured in the polls
- Illniyar 10y agoMMM... so silver lining - is the TPP going to die now?
- dredmorbius 10y agoObama's promised to punch that through the lame-duck session. Maybe he can do that. That would indicate a revolt of the GOP against Trump though. Otherwise: fairly dead, at least in this guise.
- nickpp 10y agoI don't think Donald Trump won these elections. Rather Hillary Clinton lost them.
- Kadin 10y agoI've never been much of an HRC fan, but it's hard to see what she could have done differently, based on the information available. Aside from "don't be Hillary Clinton, with all the baggage that involves", of course. A candidate less well-known to the public might have done better in a "change"-focused election. But she pretty much ran a campaign according to all the best practices, and lost to a guy who basically did everything wrong (within the scope of the campaign) that you could do wrong. The problem wasn't in the Clinton campaign. The problem was that the electorate didn't want what she was selling, despite a very good sales pitch. I suspect there's going to be a lot of analysis focusing on exactly what level of positional compromise would have gotten the Democrats enough votes in the Midwest and Appalachian states to win (off the top of my head: an about-face on gun control and some sort of mea culpa on NAFTA might do it), but I don't think the Democrats could have known that in advance. Any more than any of the Republicans who lost to Trump in the primaries could have known how badly they were underestimating the latent anger of voters when they ran their own by-the-book campaigns.
- thesimpsons1022 10y agoshe never decided to give a credible reason to vote for her other than Trump is awful.
- mcv 10y agoI was really impressed with her performance in the debates. She must have unbelievable self-control. Her baggage isn't even her own baggage; people have been attacking and hating her for decades, apparently only for having the gall to be an ambitious woman in politics, while being married to a successful man in politics.
- _RedPanda 10y ago-destroying documents (everyone else would have been killed) -openly being against gay marriage -submitting the idea of building a wall multiple(!) times to the senate -wanting to start a war with russia if she gets elected (???) yup, not her baggage at all, she totally lost because she is a woman.
- buchanaf 10y agoWhelp, on the bright side future historians will now have an easy way to mark the decline of the United States. I feel totally numb. As an American, I could not be any more disappointed in the people of this country.
- hyperdunc 10y agoI'm sorry to hear they don't live up to your standards. I'm feeling rather excited that Americans decided to take a gamble.
- codez4lyfe 10y agoI"m glad we didn't elect a corrupt politician. Trump's a gamble, but it's a better choice. #SilentMajority made their minds clear today.
- buchanaf 10y agoRather a corrupt business man with 10+ allegations of sexual assault and the intelligence and demeanor of a young child?
- nopinsight 10y agoBrexit and the Trump election share the same root causes: * Inequality within developed countries, leading to dissatisfaction among working-class voters. * Globalization benefits accrue largely to capital owners, leaving a lot of workers behind. Many blame immigration since it is the most visible cause. The blame is partly backed by human's xenophobic instincts. Ironically, Trump's tax plan will mostly benefit the rich. Instead, we need a much better system to mitigate hardships from job losses to globalization and technological change. The 2017 Congress will be very unlikely to enact such policies. I wonder how this tension will play out in the future...Thoughts?
- BlackjackCF 10y agoWell, there's that saying about how the poor in America think of themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires...
- oldmanjay 10y agoYeah, it's one of those high-horse things elites tell themselves while they try to understand why they can't just instill their perfectly obviously correct opinions already.
- mistermumble 10y agoPoor whites in America seem to identify with rich whites more than others from different races who are working (or unemployed) right next to them. To them, Trump is like the star NFL quarterback that everyone wishes to be, and wears that star's jersey on their back. Even if the fan is overweight and can barely waddle across the parking lot. Except that in reality Trump does not have the skills necessary to do the job. (He is a great candidate, but will likely be a terrible president). Someone observed that Trump is a poor person's idea of a rich person. He is unfortunately likely a disenfranchised person's idea of an effective president.
- JBReefer 10y agoThat's ironic, because that quote means the exact opposite of what people think: “Except for the field organizers of strikes, who were pretty tough monkeys and devoted, most of the so-called Communists I met were middle-class, middle-aged people playing a game of dreams. I remember a woman in easy circumstances saying to another even more affluent: ‘After the revolution even we will have more, won’t we, dear?’ Then there was another lover of proletarians who used to raise hell with Sunday picknickers on her property. "I guess the trouble was that we didn’t have any self-admitted proletarians. Everyone was a temporarily embarrassed capitalist. Maybe the Communists so closely questioned by the investigation committees were a danger to America, but the ones I knew—at least they claimed to be Communists—couldn’t have disrupted a Sunday-school picnic. Besides they were too busy fighting among themselves.”
- navinsylvester 10y agoSaddened to see the world heading towards a very unsavory place. The Brexit effect is going to take us backward and backward. We are going to see more hatred being spread :(. How did we come down to this place?. #1 Americans policy in the middle east is a total washout. The repercussions of it is starting to rear its head. #2 The rigidity of the staunch followers of religions in following the rule of the land. I mean the stupid followers. Your country men are also your brethren sort of attitude - not just people of your faith. In the highly inter-connected world if we don't shed hatred and don't learn to be tolerant towards other faiths - we will be doomed. #3 The voting process needs a re-look. Look what happened with boaty mcboatface, brexit and now US polls. Age shouldn't be the only criteria to allow someone in voting process. I don't think this is a easy problem to solve but we definitely need a rethink.
- russellsprouts 10y ago> Age shouldn't be the only criteria to allow someone in voting process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test
- pavanred 10y agoJust curious, why is the concept of absolute majority not used a criteria? For example, to win an election in India, you require an absolute majority (if there are 3 candidates and A wins 40%, B wins 30% and C wins 30%, A is still not a winner because a total of 60% voted against A). I see it in this election and in the Brexit vote, a major decision is based on a simple majority with <5% difference.
- navinsylvester 10y agoBut US is basically a dominant two party system. In India it's not the case though.
- pavanred 10y agoI think its the other way around, there's a dominant two party system because of the simple majority requirement. If there's a requirement absolute majority, then neither major party wins and the smaller parties and independents that are currently considered spoil sports become very important to form coalitions. That then gives rise to more parties catering to specific interests, demographics and minorities which enable more representation in the senates/parliaments fighting for their primary causes, instead of having to choose either of two always, and any other option basically relegated to a spoil sports.
- pgl 10y agoAnd I thought Brexit was bad.
- dibstern 10y agoSo the world's most liveable city is Melbourne, Australia, we're very far from Trump, much further than Canada, VC firms and tech startups are more than welcome to come on over and enjoy the best quality of life on offer! Hehe
- sjwright 10y agoSeriously. Even our McDonalds is several classes above the greasy, cheap muck they sell in the USA.
- cturner 10y agoCan confirm. A rite of passage for students in Adelaide is to drive to the big Mcdonalds on the nw outskirts of Melbourne, and then turn around and drive home again.
- insulanian 10y agoAs soon as you fix your internet connection :)
- cperciva 10y agoFor Bay area VCs and tech startups which are looking for a highly liveable city a bit closer than Australia, Vancouver ranked a close third (after Melbourne and Vienna) in the Economist's ratings, and is just a 2h15m flight away from San Francisco. If anyone is interested in relocating, I'd be happy to help in any way I can (realizing of course that I'm not an immigration lawyer).
- ahh 10y agoI find it interesting that most of the people I see on e.g. Facebook talking about moving to Canada are, in fact, not eligible to do so. (At least without a job offer in hand from a Canadian company to sponsor you.) (Canada's a lovely country, I wonder if their immigration policies help keep it that way?)
- 10y ago
- jyriand 10y agoLet's be honest, if you have to choose between two unacceptable candidates, it's not a choice at all.
- lis 10y agoThis is one of the issues that the social media bubble creates. We don't reach people that are different, neither do their voices reach us. We are all so connected nowadays and yet so separated.
- PerfectElement 10y agoHow did you reach those people before social media?
- code_duck 10y agofor the most part, we all watched the same 3 news networks and read the same newspapers.
- lis 10y agoI'm not sure if we did, but we didn't forget that they exist. We focussed so much on publishing facts (and rants) on social media, instead of talking to the people directly. There are zero Trump supporters on my timeline, everybody is shocked and horrified. I would bet that there are people out there who have a diametrically opposed timeline with zero HC supporters. We need to get those people together instead of further alienating and separating them by "better", more personalised and targeted algorithms.
- Broken_Hippo 10y agoThat is only partially true. Before, your bubble usually was the people around you, physically. You had network news and the newspapers for your information. You could read books about other countries and systems. If you had cable, you could watch the 24 hour news at the time - Cspan and similar things. The bubble has simply shifted and become slightly more obvious. Which really disappoints me. I was all hopeful that the internet would broaden people's bubble, but that was 20+ years ago.
- mikeash 10y agoStrange, it's been the opposite for me. Social media has revealed to me diverse political opinions from friends that I never would have known about otherwise.
- rl3 10y agoThis election proved that virtually the entirety of the election prediction space has no idea what the hell it's doing. We live in a world of big data with vast computational resources, and this outcome is somehow an upset—a totally unexpected surprise.
- Strilanc 10y ago538 gave more than 25% chance to Trump winning. That's losing two coin flips, not "totally unexpected".
- rl3 10y agoThe degree by which Trump won is the "totally unexpected" part.
- OscarCunningham 10y agoOnly just? He even lost the popular vote.
- tim333 10y agoAnd in fairness to Nate, he was saying the polls were about 42 Trump 45 Clinton with ~13% undecided and those undecideds could send the election either way. With hindsight I'd say quite a few undecideds were Trump supporters who were afraid to admit it which I can understand. Just look at the reaction to Theil backing Trump with various calls for him to be fired. I can see why people kept quiet about it.
- Florin_Andrei 10y agoEven modern computing is still vulnerable to the old GIGO phenomenon: Garbage In, Garbage Out. The way data was collected has some very serious flaws.
- rawnlq 10y agoI wonder if facebook and google could've built a better model. Prediction based on polling doesn't seem as reliable compared to what people post to their newsfeed or search for.
- imh 10y agoI like the new york times coverage better. It does a better job of acknowledging Trump's supporters and why he won, as opposed to just focusing on why Clinton lost. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-president.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/hillary-clinto...
- pmoriarty 10y agoIt will be most interesting to see the fallout from this on the Republican side. Will there be consequences for all those high level Republicans who dared to publicly come out against Trump? Will they still be against Trump now that he's won, or will they start supporting him all of a sudden? I, for one, can't see any scenario where Trump is as mild and easy going once he has power than he's been when trying to get the popular vote. If anything, he'll be far more extreme now. Will such extremism further fracture the Republican party? Or will they look the other way and act as apologists for it as they have so often in the past?
- jondubois 10y agoI hope they get replaced. I think that's the whole point of Trump; to give politics a good flush.
- pmoriarty 10y agoIf there's one thing you can rely on in politics it's that the replacements will usually be just as bad if not worse than those who they replaced. As one editorial quipped, no matter what happens in this election, the Washington elite will remain the Washington elite.
- Broken_Hippo 10y agoThe thing is that most of these folks were elected officials. So he'd have to get them voted out. He can, of course, not appoint them to seats and things like that. Those that aren't politicians? Unless they are in a position where he has some control over their career, there isn't much he can do.
- tmptmp 10y agoIt's not surprising. The left-liberal camp was always turning a blind eye towards many important national issues and importantly about the issue of Islam. This reminds me a talk given by Sam Harris about the blunder being done by left-liberals regarding their dishonest/spineless treatment of Islam. His video titled "Sam Harris : Liberals failure to talk honestly about Islam is responsible for the rise of Trump" is very educational [1]. This [2] also is informative in this regard. Even democratic supporter Bill Maher has said "Bill Maher: I Wish Liberals Would Have Same Intolerance For Muslims That They Do For Christians" [3] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCWf0tHy7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCWf0tHy7M [2] https://www.samharris.org/islam https://www.samharris.org/islam [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL8rZTuGfZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL8rZTuGfZo
- mikeyouse 10y agoIt seems strange to blame the left for not having a stronger response against Islam instead of the right for drumming up this insane hatred of Muslim people.. I have no doubt that this issue cost many swing state votes but how many Wisconsinites have ever even seen a Muslim? It's such an insane boogeyman created for this very purpose. I listen to Sam Harris, agree with many of his points but there are like 10,000 Syrians in the US - many of whom are Christians, all of whom were fleeing ISIS. Shame on Republicans for using them to score votes.
- tmptmp 10y ago>>I have no doubt that this issue cost many swing state votes but how many Wisconsinites have ever even seen a Muslim? In today's world of internet, you don't have see a Muslim(s) to get an idea of how vicious the ideology of Islam is. What happened after Charlie Hebdo attack? What happened after Nice attack? Wisconsin is not some 3rd world village where people don't get to see/hear these news. How many times did we hear "Islam is religion of peace" from Obama/Clinton and many other liberals after each such attack? In Germany also, I saw that nudists were barred from some areas because it might "hurt the religious sentiments of Muslims" in those areas. Again, what was the response from the liberals? Complete dishonest response. Come on, if the same nudists were opposed by Christians/Hindoos/Jews these pseudo-liberals would have raised hell against them.
- imode 10y agowe know not what we've done, but we will soon. the end of days is upon us, and I fear for us all.
- pnathan 10y agoNot a good thing. Not at all. Multiple systemic failures over a long haul led to this. Better batten the hatches, we might be in for quite the ride.
- einrealist 10y agoA President who considers Climate Change a hoax. I am now really afraid for mankind.
- adrr 10y agoIrony is Florida voted for Trump. They have the largest risk for rising sea levels.
- seanp2k2 10y agoFEMA will for sure save them all, just like before.
- swalsh 10y agoThe Irony is that rich countries not only benefited the most of the use of fossil fuels, we're also now in the best position to deal with changes. The people it will impact the most are poorer countries.
- epimetheus 10y agoDon't worry, Trump has it all figured out. He'll build a seawall all around Florida, and make climate change pay for it.
- hmate9 10y agoOnly 70% of America believes that climate is changing. This will keep rising and soon people will focus on this. I think in 2 years Trump will acknowledge climate change too. He will have to.
- orthecreedence 10y agoYes, and by then it will only be a decade or two too late. http://wondermark.com/c1177/ http://wondermark.com/c1177/
- einrealist 10y agoThe problem is that his political peers think, fossil energy is required to "make America great again". And unfortunately, they are right if its about the strategy that takes the least effort to achieve the economic goal. That's in big contrast on what Clinton advertised with pushing renewable energy to a point, where it helps the economy.
- flamedoge 10y ago2016 what a year
- astrodust 10y agoOh, it's not over yet.
- Rainymood 10y agoI've read somewhere that the president is the captain of a very large ship with a small rudder. Not sure how correct that is factually but it is somewhat reassuring. To think that Donald Trump is possession of the nuclear codes, dear god...
- jefffan241 10y agoHe is but republicans are projected to win the House, the Senate, and most state governments. If they can work together that rudder just got bigger.
- rdtsc 10y agoAlso this wasn't as much a vote _for_ Trump it was a vote _against_ Hillary. The Democrats had this election in their pocket, if it only wasn't for their corruption. They should have really stopped and paid attention to what happened with Bernie Sanders. That wasn't just something to shrug off, it should have been a stopping moment. I believe Bernie would have had no problem winning against Trump. Also I really liked the media in this campaign, I watched it for entertainment. Some channels thought they were helping by pretty much becoming an off-shoot for DNC and Hillary's campaign. But it blew up in their face, because people saw through that, so it had the opposite effect.
- skilled 10y agoThe only reason they had it in their pocket was because of corruption in the first place.
- ainiriand 10y agoYes, I agree completely with what you say. It is my impression that picking a fight against Trump by someone like Hillary is a poor choice. There is no way of beating him in its own ground, so Hillary was a poor choice. Someone like Bernie Sanders would have been a good rival because he is not involved (as far as we know) in dirty secrets or messy politics.
- snarf21 10y agoEven after the fix was in against Sanders, adding him as VP makes this election a slam dunk for the Democrats.
- alva 10y agoMAGA
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Nadya 10y agoSurprisingly, namecalling doesn't sway votes. Calling people with genuine concerns about their country and well-being racist and sexist doesn't win you votes. Calling half the country Deplorable doesn't win you votes. It doesn't help that the DNC rigged the election against Bernie, Clinton isn't "relatable" and struggles with public image, Clinton was under FBI investigation, both Clintons have had years and years of scandals. I'm honestly surprised it was even as close as it was for the popular vote. I did not vote, but it should be fairly obvious from this post or my post history that I lean pro-Trump and very strongly against Clinton. For those who disagree with it, I'm sure the first response is blaming bigots and racists and sexists and blah blah blah. Rather than listening to half of your country - you shout over them and call them names, names which are only sometimes "earned". The country can either grow more divided or we can grow together. The next four years will determine which direction we head.
- mcv 10y ago> Surprisingly, namecalling doesn't sway votes. Looks like it did. Trump was easily the biggest name-caller, and got rewarded for it every time.
- Nadya 10y agoSorry for the confusion, that line wasn't about the elects. It was about the people. Yelling and screaming and threatening half of the country pushes them away - it doesn't bring them closer. I've had a lot more hate for being pro-trump and transexual from the "Never Trump" crowd than I did from the Trump crowd. Staggering amounts of hate. Which is why I used the line: names which are only sometimes "earned". The names were used to try and persuade the public and to make people "not want to support Trump". All it did was turn huge parts of his crowd "silent". After all, "free speech is protected - but not without consequences!" and supporting Trump had its consequences. Look at how people treat Peter Thiel. "But the flag is upside down! No real LGBT supports him!" - https://i1.someimage.com/4UaCCr7.jpg https://i1.someimage.com/4UaCCr7.jpg
- mcv 10y ago
- hackaflocka 10y agoBetween all-purpose generic islamic terrorism (from Thailand to Phillipines to India to Middle-East to Paris to Belgium to London to USA), and black lives matter terrorism, the US needs a reboot. This is that reboot. Another brown indian dude here. I love western culture and society. I love the innovation, the science and the secularism. I'm sick of the left trying to convert it into a faux third world. For example: I teach at a university. This semester, there's a woman walking around campus in a burka. In the freaking US of A, a woman is walking around with a burka. WTF is wrong with these people?
- legodt 10y ago1. Calling black lives matter a terrorist organisation 2. Demonizing a woman for wearing her religious clothing Hey guys I spotted the racist
- gressquel 10y agoThe threadstarter is absolutely a fucking moron.
- gressquel 10y agowhy am I getting -points? I said the threadstarter (the racist guy whos post is now reported and hidden) was a total moron
- greglindahl 10y agoPlease stop name-calling. It doesn't help anything. And I say that as a person who disagrees with the guy you called a racist.
- hackaflocka 10y agoAnd I spotted the fire retardant.
- denzil_correa 10y ago> This semester, there's a woman walking around campus in a burka. In the freaking US of A, a woman is walking around with a burka. WTF is wrong with these people? Would you have the same issue if a nun walks around in her robe?
- laichzeit0 10y agoSo the LA times poll is the only poll that was right, from the beginning? Perhaps time to take their methodology seriously. Also, perhaps the extreme form of multiculturalism is a failed experiment, much like communism was a failed experiment. Time to wake up, ultra liberals.
- y_u_no_rust 10y agowut?
- wangii 10y agodon't understand why this comment gets down voted.
- daxorid 10y agoThis is HN. Conspiracy theories of "rigging" or establishment collaboration, which are rife in discussions of polling accuracy, are downvoted. No matter how true they turn out to be.
- noir-york 10y agoIt is fitting I suppose that on the anniversary of the 18 Brumaire, Napolean's coup d'etat, we should get a Trump presidency. And it doesn't end there, you need to look at the entire ticket; it is a clean sweep by the GOP who also have control of the Senate and the House. The GOP will be able to pass any legislation unimpeded, such as repealing Obamacare. More consequentially, Trump gets to fill the Supreme Court vacancy. The effects of that will last for a generation, way beyond his presidency. Elections have consequences, and this election has significantly shifted the political landscape.
- tomdell 10y agoIn addition to Trump winning, the GOP will hold a majority in both houses of Congress, further empowering conservatives. This is not the outcome many on the left expected.
- kristopolous 10y agoWell the left needs to get their act together and form some political party and then start running candidates in elections. They don't have one right now.
- harry8 10y agoObama rode to power on change ticket and immediately abandoned it, wholesale. OK that didn't work so who else you got? Bernie, outsider with nothing, no money, no establishment friends, too old, been a democtat for 5 minutes and nearly got the democratic nomination and the dem establishment hate him and broke the rules fighting him. Donald has fame and got the republican nomination. Republican establishment hate him. American voters want change. Change at any cost right now. And they'll keep trying for it. There has been no meaningful political reform. Regulatory capture and gerrymander are the norm. People hate it. They genuinely hate the status quo, the political establishment. Really hate it. Whoever is judged the most likely to do something, anything, in the way of reform has a huge advantage. You can be inexperienced and African American, you can be a blow-hard who inherited a billion dollars. Doesn't matter if people actually believe you are more for change and reform than the opposition. It's not the only important thing but having credibility as an agent for change is extremely valuable. Hilary had precisely no credibility on that count and was proud of it .
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Brakenshire 10y ago> Obama rode to power on change ticket and immediately abandoned it, wholesale. He had two years where he had legislative power, and spent that time shoring up the US economy after the financial crisis and passing healthcare reform. Had he passed political reform instead he would have been accused of putting elite concerns before the practical things affecting ordinary people. One of the problems in the US seems to be that the President has all the rhetoric of a ruler, but in fact only has power with Congress. People invest an enormous amount of hope and effort into the federal system, but in fact it's mostly ineffective, if the two parties are at one another's throats no one is capable of action a majority of the time. The system is set up to rely on the states for action, but people move around so much the states aren't seen as worth the effort (because you might be taking a job on the other side of the country in a year or two). It's a system which doesn't really match up with how people live their lives.
- 10y ago
- eoirs 10y agoThanks for the down-votes HN. Motivated me to go vote in Pennsylvania for Trump.
- incogitomode 10y agoAbsolutely the most depressing political event of my life. I would have generally written off an outcome like this as a product of personal mosanthropy and pessimism, only held in check by past results that surprised me in a good way. While my filter bubble isn't solid enough to not understand this, I truly wish it wasn't the case. As our new president-elect says; so sad.
- Houshalter 10y agoI hate democracy. Most voters aren't informed at all. Attractive candidates win 2.5 times more often than less attractive ones. Money and crappy 30 second ads apparently influence the outcome. First past the post voting means no one can even vote for what they really want to begin with. It wouldn't be so bad if the president didn't have enormous power. And they aren't supposed to. But it's been growing so much over the years. Maybe now people will understand why its so important to limit it.
- jhasse 10y ago> Attractive candidates win 2.5 times more often than less attractive ones. Money and crappy 30 second ads apparently influence the outcome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_cau...
- mtgx 10y agoYou just hate crappy democracy. Actually, the U.S. isn't even a democracy anymore. If anything, Trump winning is a return to the lost democracy, although it remains to be seen whether the country will be more democratic or even less than when he became president, after he leaves office. But I think the US model of democracy (or republic, whatever) is a pretty bad one, and the country is in a dire need of top to bottom electoral reform. But I barely even see anyone talking about this. Also, in more democratic countries, the media is significantly more regulated during elections. For instance, they have to give all parties equal time on TV, and other stuff like that to ensure the media bias is limited. So if you think the U.S. is a democracy, it's a dysfunctional one at best.
- staticelf 10y agoDemocracy is not the issue, the large country is. USA is way too large for it's own good. So it Russia and China.
- themckman 10y agoThe country was designed initially so that the Federal branch (i.e. the remote branch) of the government was limited in its scope and power. The State and local branches of government are supposed to be the ones with the power as it pertains to everyday citizens lives. If that were really the case, people wouldn't feel as though their personal well being is so directly tied to the outcome of these national elections and, hopefully, they wouldn't end up being the circus they are today. You hear about it talked about all the time with regards to large technology organizations. The supposed best ones have small, autonomous teams focused on their little slice of the organization, collaborating with other teams as need be while upper management aggregates the best ideas from all teams and presents those to the rest of the organization so that other team leads can decide on whether or not those ideas would work for them. I believe the Federal branch of the government absolutely has a role to play in the success of our country, I just think we'd be better off if it was a much reduced role.
- gotofritz 10y agoI think it boils down to Clinton not being a good candidate - she's "the establishment", a woman, and has no charisma. You can't have all three and still win. Obama had the "handicap" of being black and "a funny name" but has plenty charisma and was seen as an outsider. Trump has charisma (for some) and is an outsider. Clinton has no redeeming quality in the eye of the electorate, even many who voted for her did so to stop Trump, not because they believed in her.
- ckai 10y agohttp://whydidtrumpwin.com http://whydidtrumpwin.com
- sergiotapia 10y agoIt's been an incredible journey and frankly it's amazing he managed to cross the finish line. What a winner! I'm excited about the future of my country. OPTIMISM! No more self loathing and defeatism. Time to rekindle the American dream.
- mark_l_watson 10y ago+1 I did not vote for Trump, but I sincerely admire your enthusiasm. Trump's victory speech was gracious and I hope Americans rally behind him. I intend this to be a general comment: once a candidate wins the presidency, I think it right for Americans to offer best wishes and as much support that they can, given their political views.
- mcjiggerlog 10y agoWhy? If you deeply disagree with everything the person stands for then why would you offer anything but opposition? I get that you think that sometimes bipartisanism is needed, but this man's views seem so deeply offensive and dangerous to the rest of the modern world that trying to be "balanced" is actually just making holding those views seem acceptable.
- dkhenry 10y agoWhen Obama entered office there was a good slice of the population that genuinely disagreed with his policy, but because of his landslide victory and his overwhelming support in both houses of congress he just moved forwards with his agenda, and the opposition became very bitter, it took the next six years for those on the other side just to listen to anything he had to say as as a result major internal crisis were not dealt with as effectively as they could have been. There were at least two major issues that could have made significant progress if Obama had tread a more middle of the road path in his first term. Gun Violence and Police Brutality. Thats saying nothing of the immigration crisis going on with minors fleeing south America en mass. Later in his tenure I see a different Obama who just looks to be just as disenfranchised with the political system of America as the American people and I hope the lesson everyone can take away is the first priority of any ruling party should be to build bridges to the opposition, not ram through their policy's. If that is the case it is the job of the opposition to facilitate finding and pursuing common ground not just opposing everything, if you oppose everything you will just harden the differences and places where people do agree will be ignored for the sake of signaling
- icedchocolate 10y agoHonestly Brexit and Trump both tell me that democracy doesn't work, because the majority of the population is undereducated, bigoted, and has absolutely no idea about how to run an economy - it makes no sense for the working class who don't understand the most basic of economic concepts to influence how the economy is run. I hope he doesn't screw America's economy by preventing skilled immigrants coming in and helping the tech industry, and by screwing up America's free trade deals. The return of protectionist & economically idiotic policy could truly screw the US.
- Zpalmtree 10y ago>People don't vote how you want DEMOCRACY DOESN'T WORK nice job calling them bigoted and undereducated while you're at it
- jakebasile 10y agoCan you cite an example where a modern dictatorship substantially improved its subject's lives? This kind of demeaning talk is what got us here. Most people are, by definition, of nearly average intelligence. And someone's intellect doesn't preclude them from the right to have a voice in how they are governed just because they disagree with you. I voted for Clinton, so I'm just as disappointed as you are. Let's work to fix it, not further divide our already fractured country.
- catshirt 10y ago> Most people are, by definition, of nearly average intelligence that's... optimistic. doesnt that also mean half the population is below average intelligence?
- mdpopescu 10y agoYes, but on a bell curve the majority of the population is concentrated close to the average.
- xyzzy123 10y agoSingapore?
- Xisiqomelir 10y agoCongratulations to the President. Good luck with your time in office, it's probably the most challenging job in the world (after systemd debugger).
- esja 10y agoI didn't want this to happen, but I believed it would. There were a lot of signals, for those ignoring the group-think. e.g. Clinton needed a lot more help than Trump to get big crowds to her rallies, and Obama had to get involved at the last minute in allegedly "safe" states. There is deep frustration with our economic system, which isn't being addressed. Clinton is unfortunately a very clear embodiment of the current system. Trump is far from a perfect vessel for his messages, but he only needed to be better than Clinton, and he hit the key notes (e.g. regarding trade and jobs) over and over. Sanders would have won.
- esja 10y agoJust to add: Trump won despite being massively out-spent, despite his party being against his nomination, despite the entire mainstream media being against him, despite his business "issues", and despite all the publicised gaffes and scandals. In the face of that he seems to have won significantly more of the "white women" vote than Clinton. Anyone seriously believing he won due to bigotry etc. needs to reassess. The USA is a better country than that, and he has won convincingly. Edit: I forgot Wall Street. Almost unanimous support for Clinton.
- thesimpsons1022 10y agoyou had no argument he didn't win off bigotry. all you said was "USA is a better country than that". Too bad it isn't. Half the country is in fact uneducated racist bigots. they can have the country for 4 years and democrats can try to obstruct it.
- Ygg2 10y agoI think you're being unfair to the people voting for Trump. Yes, some of them are racist bigots (like white supremacists groups), however Trump struck a cord with rural USA. I doubt all are racists bigots, they just have different life style, and try to defend it from further deterioration. This Cracked podcast[1] really opened my eyes to some issues rural America faces each day. It's not that they hate Hillary, but Hillary both tells them that everything is fine, and for them things aren't fine. They see no jobs and Walmart just waltzes in and ruins small shops, sucking the money out of the rural parts. So, if Hilary tells them America is doing fine and we need more X, it poisons both messages. Which makes some sense from that perspective. If she's lying about America doing fine, then she is lying about X being good for country as well. http://www.cracked.com/podcast/trump-country-what-media-doesnt-want-you-to-know/ http://www.cracked.com/podcast/trump-country-what-media-does...
- markharris99 10y agoI am very happy that Trump won. I thought it was very interesting looking at what states won. Looking at CA and the East voting for Hillary and the rest of the country voting for Trump. I think we should admit it. If you are rich and in tech, well of course you want to disrupt, you want to carry on that gravy train. But what about everyone else that exists? Not everyone can retrain. Even though retraining is a huge undertaking here. It's simply not going to happen. Also protecting ones borders is not xenophobic. Are Austrialia, Switzerland, New Zealand, Canada, Japan wrong for not allowing streams of illegals in? Look at Germany. Many who voted don't want the US to become like that. Finally, basic income. I hope we can all see this is dead. Like many other liberal dreams. I'm hoping for a new future for the US. Jobs and the end of this PC nonsense. I do support diversity, but real diversity. Not at the expense of other people.
- jupp0r 10y ago> I think we should admit it. If you are rich and in tech, well of course you want to disrupt, you want to carry on that gravy train. But what about everyone else that exists? Not everyone can retrain. Even though retraining is a huge undertaking here. It's simply not going to happen. So what is going to happen? I happen to live in Germany where the Government is trying to regulate disruption in all sorts of areas, mostly digital-related. You cannot get rich by isolating your country economically, it's been tried hundreds of times in history and never succeeded. You get rich by innovating and improving, and global competition is the best way we have to make sure our economy is competitive.
- echelon 10y agoAnd here I thought my Donald Trump TTS engine [1] would be irrelevant by Wednesday morning. I guess now I need to make it not sound like garbage. [1] http://jungle.horse http://jungle.horse
- sidcool 10y agoI can't fathom how people can vote for him after listening to his speeches. He might be good, but his speeches are crap. Can't vote for him. Sad day for competency.
- mcv 10y agoThat's the problem with democracy: a lot of people aren't very well informed, and are easily taken in by his crap. Other than investing more in education, I'm not sure what can be done about this.
- _RedPanda 10y ago>aren't very well informed >easily taken in by his crap pretty big words for someone who just posted this: >"... Her baggage isn't even her own baggage; people have been attacking and hating her for decades, apparently only for having the gall to be an ambitious woman in politics ..." while ignoring/not being aware about all the bad stuff she pulled off/wanted to pull off (i.e. war, making gay marriage illegal, destroyed documents ...)
- mcv 10y agoThe stuff she pulled off or wanted to pull off wasn't pretty, but nothing out of the ordinary in US politics. The stuff Trump has pulled off and wants to pull off is of a totally different level. You focus only on the mote in Clinton's eye, while ignoring the beam in Trump's eye. Seriously, how do you, and clearly so many other Americans, manage to have such a limited view of reality? Do you understand how weird it looks to attack and hate someone for doing the exact same things that the guy you support also did?
- hellofunk 10y agoI used to think that, as the saying goes, we are all Greek. But that is no longer true. Now, we are all Russian.
- har777 10y agoWas this a result of protest votes against Hillary or do people genuinely support a Trump presidency ? Would Bernie have fared better against Trump had he been the democratic nominee ?
- Iv 10y agoIt was not a genuine support: this election was historical in the amount of unfavorable opinions toward both candidates. Today he gets a lot less unfavorable rating than either candidate, but no one knows what would have happened if he actually would have had to campaign against Trump.
- Fifer82 10y agoAmerica's greatest outcome today was their shunning of the Media. I am so proud. As a Skeptic and outsider, 95% of the media was anti trump. America made its own choice, and it has the balls to stand by it and make a success of it.
- shams93 10y agoI took a look at his economic plan. He seems to want to do everything at the same time, if hid campaign was a startup it would never be funded you can't present 3 bullet points as a pitch deck.
- gragas 10y agoYou're delusional if you think economic plans for nations as large as the US are comparable to startup pitch decks.
- erikb 10y agoDear American friends, some info in case you need it: http://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/Topics/Migration-Integration/Asylum-Refugee-Protection/Asylum-Refugee-Protection_Germany/asylum-refugee-policy-germany_node.html http://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/Topics/Migration-Integration/Asylu...
- simosx 10y agoBoth the BREXIT campaigners and Trump over-promised on how they will fix the financial crisis. Neither started to deliver yet, and will be seeing what they can actually do in 2017. It kinda does not make sense because their promises are either mutually exclusive (strict fiscal policy but spending) or do not play well with the rest of the world (tariffs and other trade restrictions which eventually would be matched on the other side). In many smaller countries, the politicians would run a whole campaign on the disaffected feeling and over-promising on how good they will be in fixing it. Once they were in power however, they would not achieve much and the next party would over-promise in order to get elected. In the following years we will witness how over-promising will play with a super-power.
- 2sk21 10y agoI think this is the heart of the matter. Automation and AI will ensure that many jobs will never return.
- intoverflow2 10y ago>Both the BREXIT campaigners and Trump over-promised on how they will fix the financial crisis. Important to keep in mind that even large amounts of the pro-Brexit campaign didn't actually expect to win, it was meant to be a bargaining chip.
- golergka 10y ago> Neither started to deliver yet Election day was yesterday. Shocking how Trump hasn't fixed US economy yet.
- johnb777 10y agoLook at the Washington Post with their tail between their legs. The Washington Post's coverage of this election was disgustingly biased towards the left and they should be ashamed not only from a journalistic standpoint but also as Americans. I can almost feel Aaron Blake's scathing hot breath as he sat in his Prius and typed this article on his (made in China) Acer laptop (probably wearing a beret with a Hillary logo).
- jroseattle 10y agoBig data and big polling (Nate Silvers) took a major credibility hit in this election. People will be studying this for years. Of course, it's not that big data itself was to blame, just the interpretation of it. Nate, not sure what to tell you but that was a significant miss in this election, going all the way back into the primaries.
- dagw 10y agoFivethirtyeight said the odds for Clinton where about 70-30 and trending narrower. Given how close the final win was I wouldn't really call that a miss. The miss where the models that where calling it 90+ for Clinton
- Shivetya 10y agowell it simply comes down to they aren't much better than other groups and its most likely because they stopped being really objective. for those who have followed that site its not been fun to watch
- dagw 10y agoIn what way do you feel their so called lack of objectivity has leaked into their model? Even ignoring the model they basically called out this exact possibility at least twice in very recent articles. One saying that people where underestimating the likelihood of Trump winning the electoral college, despite losing the popular vote. And another pointing out that Trumps was within one standard polling error of winning the presidency and people where shouldn't ignore error margins on the published polls.
- FrojoS 10y agoNot true. Fivethirtyeight said repeatedly that Clinton's lead was within a standard polling error and that hence a Clinton defeat was about as likely as a Clinton landslide. They also pointed out over and over again, that the uncertainty in this election was higher than e.g. 4 years ago (Romney was given a 9% chance). "To be honest, I’m kind of confused as to why people think it’s heretical for our model to give Trump a 1-in-3 chance — which does make him a fairly significant underdog, after all. There are a lot of ways to build models, and there are lots of factors that a model based on public polling, like ours, doesn’t consider.3 But the public polls — specifically including the highest-quality public polls — show a tight race in which turnout and late-deciding voters will determine the difference between a clear Clinton win, a narrow Clinton win and Trump finding his way to 270 electoral votes." -- Nate Silvers on Nov 6 http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-dont-ignore-the-polls-clinton-leads-but-its-a-close-race/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-dont-ign...
- nabla9 10y agoTrump is not an isolated event. Populism is growing everywhere - Italy: Silvio Berlusconi era (- 2011) - Philippines: Rodrigo Duterte - Hungary: right wing populist party in charge - Poland: populist Law and Justice party in charge - Britain: Brexit, Boris Johnson - Turkey: Erogan
- mcv 10y agoAnd right-wing populism has also been growing stronger in countries where they're not yet in power. Geert Wilders, Front National, Alternative fur Deutschland... I don't like the direction the world is taking.
- V-2 10y ago"Populism" is sort of a weasel word, but Law and Justice (in Poland) is arguably less populist than the party they replaced at power (Civic Platform), and certainly much less corrupt, whether you like their conservative outlook or not.
- d33 10y agoAh, the ultimate PO vs PiS discussion ;) I would disagree. They keep coming up with ideas and not implement them later because despite having enough resources to pass any law they please. It just shows that their ideas cannot actually be translated into legislation. PO, the previous party didn't have a clear vision either, but I don't recall as much "breakthrough" changes being announced back then. As for being corrupt, keep in mind they're completely bought by the church. This by itself is a huge red flag of corruption for me.
- V-2 10y ago"Bought by the church"? In what sense? Financial, I assume? What indicates that? The populism exhibited by PO was of a different sort, of course. We can probably agree about it. Despite being "civic" and all, they actually set out on explicitly discouraging any political involvement - with the slogan that went "let's not make politics" and the infamous "how water in taps" rhetorics. They refused to acknowledge every major problem the country faced, dismissing any voices of discontent as mere frustration (or worse). Painting a rosy picture of "the best times in a 1000 years", dismissing international security concerns as baseless fears (eg. in president Komorowski's speech not long before the invasion on Ukraine) etc. At the same time they were - and still are - a chameleon party, perfectly able to flip-flop on every issue overnight, solely for PR reasons... All this is 100% populism. A teflon variety, of course.
- karakal 10y agoIs it a good idea to invest a little money now that the market plunged?
- seanp2k2 10y agoGo for it. I'm sure 2008 won't repeat itself.
- grp 10y agoI don't think so. Unless you already invested money in your own life, your family and friends and there is still some money that really serves you nothing for the next 5-10 years.
- saganus 10y agoIs it really plunging? It's been a few hours since your comment, but right now (about 5hrs later) the market seems to be having a bit of an uptick actually: https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/%5EDJI#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 https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/%5EDJI#eyJjb21wYXJpc29ucyI6I...
- du_bing 10y agoChina now has a big chance to make more influences on the whole world now, because USA will focus more on her own problems.
- curioussavage 10y agoFine with me. The mindset most Americans have bought into is ridiculous to me. The idea that we should let our leaders waste fortunes wreaking havoc on the world out of fear that the Russian or Chinese boogeyman will rise is getting old.
- shanwang 10y agoI'm surprised how many chinese support Trump, when I ask them why, one of the main reasons is that Trump will withdraw military support to Asia, Japan especially.
- gragas 10y agoDoes this not prove that "diverse" liberalism isn't so diverse after all? Shouldn't a diverse group of people have seen this coming? Or is liberalism actually systematically excluding people by labelling them as "racist" and "sexist", when in fact they're just fiscal and social conservatives?
- Kliment 10y agoI reiterate my post-Brexit-vote offer of giving immigration and relocation and general advice to anyone wishing to move to Germany. Contact info in my profile.
- IndianAstronaut 10y agoOne of my coworkers is seriously contemplating moving to the Germanic world, either Zurich or Germany. Had little to do with the election, but just in general for a much better lifestyle.
- notliketherest 10y agoGod bless america!
- bignell 10y agoI'm sorry, but if there were ever a time for the black bar, this is it.
- SFJulie 10y agoDonald Trump is the president former european colons have elected on concern about immigration. What an irony. Sioux, blackfeet, algonquins, montagnais, apache, yahi ... you are the real americans and the world is telling you Donald Trump is the president of a nation that once welcomed the pilgrims that were persecuted in Europa. I guess thanksgiving meaning has been lost. If only trump could be consistent and self kick all the white americans him included as illegal immigrants from the country.
- Simaramis 10y agothere is no Sioux. it's a name the french gave them when they supplied them with guns and whiskey to fan a counter-insurgency. Sitting Bull was a Humpapa Indian.
- eva1984 10y agoSeveral things come to my mind: 1.It marks as the final blow to US hegemony ever since USSR clashes. It is hard for me to believe, after this election, US will still be hailed as THE example that others should follow. Too many scandals and ugliness have been unleashed. That era is now officially over. 2.US will start look inwards other outwards. I mean globalization will halt to correction, or we will see the start of reverse of it. 3.Immigration will be tamed, across all level of skills. There will be more political pressure and obstacle for company to absorb foreign talents. Not good news for developers to seek job here in US. 4.History will not end after all, human as species is too complex for that. 5.Last not least, this election breaks a lot of values, or the illusion of having them, but fails to bring up its own. This is the ultimate devastating part. The boundary between democracy and populism is vaguer than ever, and its benefits, other than a national ritual to legalize a new administration, is putting under questions.
- pasta 10y agoTo me this shows how hard it is to come up with good solutions for problems. I think both Trump and Clinton know what the problems in the US are. The difference is: Trump is naming all problems but doesn't provide real solutions, Clinton is only naming problems she has a solution for. That's why the working class votes for Trump because he is the only one who is talking about their problems. The same is happening here in The Netherlands. Politics doesn't likes to talk about problems with immigration. Wilders does. That's why he is very popular. But just like Trump his solutions are unrealistic. This is also why I don't think a lot is going to change in the US. The unrealistic solutions are what they are: unrealistic. So the Mexican wall is never going to be build. The only sad outcome is that this populistic talk is dividing the nation.
- d33 10y agoThere are at least two problems here: one is figuring out a solution and the other is communicating it to the general public in a politically correct manner. Perhaps if we agreed to talk in a more straightforward fashion without making it kind of a "who's going to feel offended first" contest, things would improve faster...
- d3ckard 10y agoWell, as a Pole... it's nice to know Americans are as dumb as we are. The problem is, number of places to run away just reduced considerably.
- welanes 10y agoWill the people who denigrated his supporters so vehemently here and on Twitter pause to ask themselves why Trump won so convincingly, and whether their reflexes to publicly shame his supporters may have played a role in the outcome? I'd hope they would. There are many important conversations to be had but we need to begin by understanding and respecting the opinions of the other side.
- rbanffy 10y agoHumanity, meet the Great Filter.
- aoeu345 10y ago> the Great Filter There had better be some serious conviction behind you. If you are aware of the great filter, then you better go get a job at SpaceX and work 100 hours for the rest of your life. We have about 20 or so years to set ourselves up for the future before it is too late. EDIT: Just want to clarify that I'm not mad, it's just that if you realize what the Great Filter is, and you're not hopelessly selfish, that you should be working all the time to help get us safely across it. The universe hangs in the balance, friend.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y agoThat's some reckoning on the level of 'Roko's Basilisk.'
- aikah 10y agoWell it turns out Thiel was right on the money. How many people are still going to call for his head on a plate now ?
- knguyen0105 10y agoSo the wall will be built?
- lightedman 10y agoAnd this is what you get when you eviscerate education budgets and remove things like civics and government from the classroom, or make it AP-only. The awesome part is that since I can't legally vote, I get to point at the rest of you and act like I'm George Carlin for the next four years. Brace yourselves.
- baccheion 10y agoWTF happened in the last 6 hours? Oh f*ck!
- myf01d 10y agoJustice has been served.
- giis 10y agoAs someone followed this election from India - I'll compare 2014, India's Right-wing party election with this one , my thoughts: * Ruling party tried to seek vote by projecting opposition candidate as evil, Instead of selling their own-accomplishment to the people. (Exactly the similar case with Current Indian PM in 2014.) * US Main Stream Media is corrupt. They didn't understand they can't fool people anymore, thanks to social media. There is lot of way to reach out common-people using social media, rather than just MSM. IMHO, US media ran campaign to projected one candidate as very bad person. (Exactly same again, with Modi where virtually all media refute the claim 'Modi Wave' across the country in 2014). Intentionally came out fake poll reports. * Result may look close, but I'm pretty sure, If there was fair trail of both candidates by MSM, Trump might have won by bigger margin than current one. * Fear of minority : Once you become 'head of state'. Elected leader must adapt themselves to their new role with more responsibility. So If you found something insane statement during campaign - most likely they won't be implemented. - Its just way to polarize people behind one candidate. * I think most people voted for Trump is fed-up whats going with-their political systems and corruption. Not necessarily agree with Trump on each & every thing he said during campaign. They might have thought, why not give him chance, if its not good. We can switch votes in 2020. Ending note: In 2014, Tea-seller Modi was running against ruling PM (phd scholar 2004-2014). People saw his development and anti-corruption promises (yes there are some political gimmicks to polarize votes). People fedup with scams & corruptions from ruling party for last 10 years, thought Why not give him a chance? and the end result is massive 171,660,230 votes to get majority to form the govt. In these two years, he still popular, way better than previous 2 govt by well-educated PM. (Just yesterday he announced surprising move to scrap Rs 500 and Rs 1000 currency notes to eliminate black-money) . Media still trying hard to create fake fears among minority since they want their master to get back in power in next election. Country is largely peaceful & economy is growing. I hope same will be case with Trump too, he will focus on most important economic and development tasks. He wont/can't implement this controversial plan which may affect his development plans.
- anupshinde 10y agoFirst - Trump is not Modi. Modi is much better and experienced leader than Trump (or Clinton). I like Trump too. Second - The entire election season was nasty. US is now seeing the real face of democracy with diversity. Third - The voters did not have a great choice. If the elections were to occur like India, it would have ended up in a hung parliament. And that would be the worst thing to happen. Fourth - Would you like if your job is offshored for low-costs? NO!... or Would you like to see veterans, elders or seniors live unhappily? NO!... The US (govt) will not be able to stop offshoring without allowing lower minimum pay. The only way to do that is by applying protectionist measures that will work in the short term. And most-likely that would weaken the currency over a longer term.
- trymas 10y agoPeter Thiel's dreams have beocme a reality.
- noir-york 10y agoHillary has been marked by betrayal. Jennifer Flowers Monica Lewinsky Vince Foster Whitewater Benghazi State Emails John Podesta's emails Anthony Weiner emails And the seeds of today's defeat: NAFTA, the 1993 free trade bill passed by her own husband that unleashed globalisation on an untrained and ill-prepared American workforce and rebooted Reagan Democrats as Trump democrats.
- nxc18 10y agoOur U.S. Democracy was the one and only thing I truly believed in. Now I have nothing.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jondubois 10y agoWow, this is so unexpected. Reading the news a few hours ago, it sounded absolutely certain that Hillary Clinton would win. I think it shows that there is a limit to how far people can be manipulated by the media. It's a win for the people.
- evils 10y agoThe new MacBook Pro doesn't seem to be that big of deal any more.
- Slackwise 10y agoOnly because Trump also doesn't have an Escape key.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- known 10y agoThanks to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect
- known 10y agoWill US exit WTO under Trump regime?
- hathym 10y agoAMERICA IS FUCKED!
- greens231 10y agoi dont know about america but he certainly made the news great again
- imron 10y agoTrump's acceptance speech was quite magnanimous. If he can pull off the things he mentioned in that speech then it's not going to be so bad.
- hmate9 10y agoHonestly, I think that is mostly how he will behave. His "headline" behaviour in this election has been done to get media coverage. Hillary outspent him but if you look at how much coverage has been on Donald Trump, than it is almost an unfair race. But now that he's president, I predict that will change.
- id122015 10y agoHow many times has the word "globalisation" been used in the comments ? Do you know what it means ? Does it have only one meaning ? Just previously a subject was opened "Why is electricity so hard to understand? (1989)" http://amasci.com/miscon/whyhard2.html http://amasci.com/miscon/whyhard2.html
- throw2016 10y agoI honestly thought the Trump presidency attempt was a big internal joke. I didn't think Trump himself believed he would become president ever. This guy is clearly a sociopath lacking in empathy typical of the american elite and his behavior has just been rewarded. It's really troubling what this means for Americans who are not rich or white. It also troubling we celebrate wealth to an extent we do not view having an elite class of extremely selfish and self serving individuals as a problem which has directly got us to the Trump presidency. Hilary Clinton was completely untrustworthy and tedious so the alternative was a bad choice. The democrats have themselves to blame for not taking their own policies seriously, posturing, paying lip service to the poor and unprivileged for decades, and failing completely to put up an inspiring candidate. They have supported and built the surveillance state, ignored the poor and destroyed millions of lives in the middle east. I don't think Trump can be called a good person. His perspective on life is shaped by wealth, privilege, ego and acqusitions. It all economics and very little humanity. Some of his positions are unquestionably racist and unpleasant. It's troubling and telling that a majority of this country thought such an individual should 'lead' them. All pretensions are off, the mask has dropped to reveal the deep ugliness within. All those smug comedians making fun of Trump look like clowns themselves.
- akerro 10y agoI still can't believe Hillary disrespected all people who supported her and came close to her stage by not giving a final speech. Was she not paid for it?
- reddytowns 10y agoThe bottle was a'calling
- unabst 10y agoThe victor will never be asked if he told the truth. / I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature. / Great liars are also great magicians. / I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few. Trumps handbook. He shouldn't be mistaken for the same person, since people of that caliber only happen once, but that is exactly how he elected himself. Psychology wins elections. Not policy, not integrity, not even sanity. And now he has the power. Nothing he said or says matters. He is a magician. So I hope he's full of white doves. His victory speech wasn't all that bad actually.
- einr 10y agoThe Baltic Republics vs. the rest of the USSR. Just FYI, since I assume you're not very familiar with these countries: this kind of lumping together the so-called "Baltic Republics" with the "USSR" is generally very offensive to Estonians, Lithuanians and Latvians, who have nothing to do ethnically or culturally with Russia and generally view the Soviet era as very dark times. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were invaded and taken by force because of geographical proximity to Russia. Nothing else. There are no relevant conclusions to be drawn by making comparisons like yours because these are different peoples with different histories and pretty much nothing in common.
- salamisultan 10y agoMuh privelege...
- crottypeter 10y agoIsn't that the point of the parent post? The two regions are very different.
- creshal 10y agoNo, because they never had any ties to Russia to begin with.
- BurningFrog 10y agoThey were part of Russia for several hundred years, gained independence in 1918 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk) and were retaken by Stalin in 1939.
- einr 10y agoSo different indeed that the comparison is meaningless. That is my point. If you're going to draw conclusions from comparisons -- like the OP did with his coast/interior thing -- the things you're comparing have to be at least somewhat similar.
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- grandalf 10y agoLet's use this as an opportunity to hold president Trump accountable in a way that we've failed to do for the past few decades. This could lead to unprecedented checks and balances and unprecedented democratic participation leading to a resurgence in the rule of law.
- JulianMorrison 10y agoYou stupid fucks, you broke it.
- mindcrime 10y agoThreads here are all over the place, and I guess there's a lot that can be said in response to Trump's election. So I'll just chime in with this, which is a hasty, from-memory, partial rehash of something I posted on Facebook earlier. If you have a problem with Trump being elected, or with our political system as it is in general, consider this old saw "If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting." Now, full disclosure, I'm a "third party" guy (Libertarian, specifically) anyway, so I am absolutely biased, no bones about it. But I believe that part of doing something besides "what we've always done" means starting to vote for 3rd party candidates. Screw Duverger's Law, forget "lesser of two evils" voting, and quit voting out of fear. I posit that people need to start voting for candidates they support instead of voting against candidates they are afraid of. Along with that, of course, belong efforts to switch voting systems to approval voting, or Condorcet voting, etc., as well as efforts to eliminate restrictive ballot access laws, open up the debates, etc. Basically, we have to break up this duopoly that has been in place for 100+ years, or nothing is really going to change. Of course my hope is that all this will lead to more Libertarians in office,but even if you don't support the Libertarian viewpoint, I hope most everybody can agree that the current system isn't working as it should.
- dmux 10y ago>"If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting." In George Carlin's skit about not voting, he says "garbage in, garbage out" when referring to our politicians. We get what we deserve.
- OMGWTF 10y agoThe problem is not that we ended up with Trump (or Hillary). The problem is that we ended up with Trump vs. Hillary. The majority didn't care enough for the earlier stages of our democratic process.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jimnotgym 10y agoLibertarians of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your bigots. Lets put away national boundaries and show the world that the old order have become obsolete
- jimnotgym 10y agoLibertarians of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your bigots. Put away national boundaries and look to a worldwide connected future. Make bigotry obsolete
- plandis 10y agoI've never felt less American than I do right now. The country that voted for a man who has been recorded stating that he sexually assaults women is not a country in which I want to live.
- lxrbst 10y agoWell with the Clintons you'd have a criminal and a rapist in the whitehouse so you can't win.
- PeterStuer 10y agoI personally believe Clinton was almost uniquely qualified as the only democrat that could lose this election from Trump. The political establishment underestimates the underlying resentment. "The winners know that they’re winning but have been very slow to realize that the losers know that they’re losing and are enraged about the fact." The linked article, put in hash words but look beyond that, was written after the Brexit poll, but it is as relevant here: "Corrupt elites always try to persuade people to continue to submit to their dominance in exchange for protection from forces that are even worse. That’s their game. But at some point, they themselves, and their prevailing order, become so destructive, so deceitful, so toxic, that their victims are willing to gamble that the alternatives will not be worse, or at least, they decide to embrace the satisfaction of spitting in the faces of those who have displayed nothing but contempt and condescension for them. "There is no single, unifying explanation for Brexit, Trumpism, or the growing extremism of various stripes throughout the West, but this sense of angry impotence — an inability to see any option other than smashing those responsible for their plight — is undoubtedly a major factor. As Bevins put it, supporters of Trump, Brexit, and other anti-establishment movements “are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say FUCK YOU” to those they believe (with very good reason) have failed them" https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/ https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-lates...
- Blahah 10y agoJimmy Carter: "If we succumb to a dream world, we'll wake up to a nightmare." Trump: "I make the best nightmares."
- krmboya 10y agoMost fascinating for me as an outsider, is that perhaps, maybe, Americans decided to go against status quo, to vote against the establishment.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- shomyo 10y agoMAGA
- pknerd 10y agoSo the this anti immigration and Anti Muslim factor worked for US and UK well. Who's next, Australia?
- Grue3 10y agoHillary Clinton presidential campaign is probably the worst managed presidential campaign in history. How do you even lose to a joke of a candidate like Trump? The writing was on the wall when they named fucking Pepe the Frog the "symbol of white nationalism". The entire campaign, somehow, existed in a bubble with no connection to reality. It was painful to watch. Doesn't help that Clinton herself is suspiciously corrupt and unlikeable.
- CptJamesCook 10y agoPlease stop calling people you don't agree with racist and sexist. It's wrong, it's mean, and it does not seem to have the desired effect. Human beings are basically good. We are trying to go about our lives and do the best we can. The vast majority of us are neither sexist nor racist.
- Mahn 10y agoWhere does this rhetoric come from? Trump has made remarks that are inherently racist and sexist, whether you agree or disagree with him.
- ck425 10y agoThat doesn't mean everyone who supported him is racist and sexist, just that they have other concerns. As hard as it might be to understand there are people who think there are most important issues than the fact Trump is racist and sexist, even if they're still aware and disgusted by that fact. This election has been one of the most divisive ever and the rhetoric of "all Trump supports are racist and sexist" has only made that worse.
- mcjiggerlog 10y agoI hate this view. I think you're just trying to be balanced, but really you are legitimising views that ARE racist and sexist by saying things like this.
- hyperdunc 10y agoThe point is that these words are overused, and are used to label people and shut down conversation. If confronted by a true racist or sexist, the decent thing would be to engage in honest conversation. But people don't seem very interested in understanding other points of view.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- hogrammer 10y agoI think people are sick and tired of the attacks on Free Expression that come from the left. It culminated in Frankenstein's Monsters like "trigglypuff״.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- emblem21 10y ago1076 comments? I can literally say whatever I want and no one is going to flag or vote. Great. Do you think Glass-Steagall liberalization or Silicon Valley brilliance made flyover-state citizens say "Wow, thanks for innovating all of that technology to help Walmart bean counters find ways to keep price points for common goods low enough to justify why my boss pays me near minimum wage"? Or, maybe, do you think social media made flyover state citizens with no opportunity says "WTF WHY DOES THE INTERNET THINK I AM AN INBRED RACIST SEXIST HOMOPHOBIC BIGOTED EVIL PERSON BECAUSE I DON'T THINK ELLEN IS ALL THAT FUNNY AND THEY DOGPILED ME ON TWITTER?" Disregard a population long enough and you'll find they discover ways to hack your morality.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago"I can literally say whatever I want and no one is going to flag or vote" Fibs! I did, I did!
- TulliusCicero 10y agoI agree with you. I'm definitely in the 'Silicon Valley liberal elite' category, but the conversation around people from 'flyover states' is generally unproductive, or even non-existent.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- thesagan 10y agoThat's definitely a BIG part of it from what I'm seeing in my rustbelt state.
- udshu 10y agowe need to create something on internet more powerful than old nations !!
- XorNot 10y agoI am selling my US ETF holdings. I'm hoping for a bounce to get out at break even, but I'll clear whatever the price before Trump is sworn in. Presuming nothing world-endingly catastrophic happens, I'm pretty sure I'll pick it up on a discount later.
- Shivetya 10y agoWhat I am most interested in going forward. His cabinet. That will tell us where he really is going. If he meets with both sides quickly. Also, I want to see if President Obama is gracious today or not. He has a chance to make the transition smooth but at the same time his own rhetoric has not been encouraging as of late. If he poisons the well all bets are off
- robalfonso 10y agoAt the end of the day I hold hope he'll approach this like a business. He'll hire the best he can find, fire the incompetent (of which government has many) and generally clean things up. What remains to be seen is how much the politics of any one group may stop that type of thing.
- throwaawwaayy 10y agoOk, I'm trying to think of a silver lining of all this. Trump and brexit are about bringing changes. For brexit to work, it has to be hard brexit, for Trump to work, he has to follow through the things he said. And they must show the changes they bring are good, for example, there need to be more jobs, less foreigner, working class people take home more money, etc. When my thought reached this point, I'm thinking: it's impossible for them to do it. They either bring the economy down and hurt more people, or they betray their supportors. Either way will spell disaster for this Trump/Brexit ideology and put an end to it. Brexit/Trump fail => People support them realise they made a mistake => less people support far right Isolationism => we restore the happy central liberal world. But then I realise how wrong I was, they don't have to make it work for everyone, they just need to please the people who supported them, which is only half of the country, they have the other half to screw over with. They CAN make it work in the short term for some people, like Hilter did between 1933-1939. But then what..? So no silver lining after all.
- pdkl95 10y agoThis was ignored when I tried to post it recently, but maybe now is the time for Brown U. Prof. of Political Economy Mark Blyth's discussion of "Global Trumpism" - the discontent with the establishment and general revolt against technocracy and globalism. Full lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkm2Vfj42FY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkm2Vfj42FY TL;DW 4min summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzl4B3mrKQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzl4B3mrKQE
- pavlov 10y agoWith the Senate and House controlled by Republicans, Trump has an enormous mandate now. Nothing stands in the way of his delivering on his campaign promises. We know he loves to assign blame to anyone but himself. He doesn't take responsibility for mistakes. That's been proven over and over again, by everyone from business partners to former wives. In four years when America hasn't become "great again", who is he going to blame? That's the really scary part to me. Electing a populist isn't when things go off the rails -- it's when the in-power populists start looking for scapegoats.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dev1n 10y agoUnless trump has this grand, hidden plan to invest heavily in infrastructure, people in the middle of the country will see increasing unemployment.
- efaref 10y agoIt's not really hidden. I mean, it's right there on his website: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/an-americas-infrastructure-first-plan/ https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/an-americas-infrastruc... I don't know how he plans to pay for it, though. I assume Mexico will be occupied paying for his wall.
- mstade 10y agoIt's obviously not going to happen, but let's play hypotheticals for a minute. Do you have to have at least 270 electoral votes, or is the requirement just an electoral majority? Hypothetically – and the chance of this happening is obviously nil – if 10 people who are supposed to vote for Trump in the electoral college decides to be faithless and abstain or vote for Hillary, what would happen? At that point Trump would have 269 electoral votes and Hillary would have 218-228. Does Trump still win or does it go to the house for a vote? (Where Trump most certainly will be voted president anyway, so moot point.) I find the US electoral system fascinating, and scary complex.
- robalfonso 10y agoI won't get too much into the various possibilities, but simply put, if neither candidate has 270 electoral votes, then the election is decided by congress, the incoming one. So really there is no chance its not trump.
- mstade 10y agoRight, and congress must vote from the available candidates, and couldn't pick anyone? Obviously none of this will happen, but it's fun to think about I think. If you've seen the tv show Veep, they play around with a similar scenario, but one where the electoral college is tied. In the show, congress also ends up in a tie, and so elects the vice president into office instead. As far as I understand the rules though, the vice president would only be elevated to president in case congress can't resolve the matter before inauguration day, and will only hold the office until congress resolves the tie and picks a president. I probably have most of this wrong, but I think it's very interesting to hypothesize about the possibilities, no matter how remote. I obviously don't think any of this would happen, but it's fun to think about.
- paulddraper 10y agoOnly the top three are considered (12th amendment). The House selects the President, and the Senate selects the Vice-President.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- zump 10y agoAs an Indian in San Jose, I'm very scared. Am I going to be deported?
- netheril96 10y agoAre you illegal or legal immigrant?
- iamgopal 10y agoWhen back in India, Congress won with majority, I was flabbergasted, I mean how can people can be so retard to give vote to stupid congress ? Then I realize, Its just only me with some above average income have time to think about global warming or global harmony, most of the people plainly worried about where their next meal comes from. or at most which TV serials on air. For those people other things does not matter, until, basic necessities get solved.
- losteverything 10y agoWe all need to start to ignore mr. Trump and eliminate the fear he brings into our minds.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- aerodog 10y agoObama, 2 weeks ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC1NGWM8gP8&feature=youtu.be&t=17s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC1NGWM8gP8&feature=youtu.be...
- topbagsvk 10y agoThere are no major cultural or ethnic similarities http://www.bagsforsaleit.com/replica-handbags.html http://www.bagsforsaleit.com/replica-handbags.html
- vcool07 10y agoI think this strongly reflects the hypocrisy of the modern society. On the outside (especially on social media, most people wanted to be seen as a liberal/ pseudo intellectual bashing Trump and his policies. But on the inside they seemed to have appreciated some of his policies or attitude or whatever, and went ahead and voted for him. It's hard to take anyone at face value just based on their social media profile.
- lumberjack 10y agoWhat's interesting about this whole thing from my perspective: 1. Mark Cuban, Peter Thiel, Bloomberg and others might decide to run for president now that Trump has shown that it is possible. 2. Trump says he's anti-establishment, but he's also a billionaire. Wouldn't it me more accurate to see this as infighting between US elite? Or maybe a new group of elite wanting their share of power? Or maybe disagreements between elite from different sectors of the economy.
- bikamonki 10y agoPolls do have a margin of error yet the wider chances that Hillary was getting just a couple of days prior are NOT an error: private media responds to private interest. I've seen it happen before: in the US and elsewhere, to influence a presidential election or to make one choose coke over pepsi; it happened on printed media, it now happens online.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- EGreg 10y agoThe Alternative Vote would have prevented so many of the structural problems with USA's democracy that keep this country deeply divided, and people holding their nose when voting: http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=254 http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=254 As it is, the party that nominated the establishment candidate lost all the anti-establishment, anti-globalist fervor and vote that "Bernie or Bust" people represent. This fervor is not understood in today's Establishment including the media. The Alternative Vote would have properly channeled it.
- aryehof 10y agoI'm reminded of the saying "every nation gets the government they deserve". Let's hope for the American people it's for the better, not the worse.
- kaolti 10y agoIs it not possible that people just voted against politicians?
- Confusion 10y agoInstead of patronising these people it's time we tried to understand their concerns and try to assuage them. That seems pointless to me. This part of the population seems permanently unhappy and angry, no matter what happens. They blame their problems on outside causes, but their problems are actually their own and there is no change in the world that would solve them. Every country, including utopias like Norway and the Netherlands, has a lot of these people. At least in the US they can truly complain about being poor and mistreated. In Norway and the Netherlands, even these people have a better standard of living, better health case, better prospects, an objectively better life, than 95% of the world population. Yet they vote for populists, complain about immigrants and generally act is if they are being wronged in some way. Can democracy work if part of the demos don't have the best interest of all other demos in mind?
- Gatsky 10y agoThe general sadness is unwarranted. Trump has already toned it down in the acceptance speech. There is no better way to sedate a demagogue than to let them gain office. There are two types of elections these days - those where candidates are career politicians that are rather moderate, and opposing parties have very similar policies. These elections are always very close, nobody gets much of a majority, and nothing is achieved. The second type is where demagogues talk a lot of nonsense with impunity, and get voted in because of vague notions about their ability to disrupt 'the system'. They usually espouse conservative, paranoid, xenophobic views. They also don't achieve anything substantial, because fundamentally, they don't see running the country as their job, their job is to win, and whatever happens after that, well who cares? The weird leadership vacuum after Brexit was a classic example of this. Trump will probably fall into this second category, but there is a small chance he could actually turn himself into effective President. The most likely outcome though is 4 years of aimlessness. I also doubt he will get 2 terms. I think as an incumbent, the advantages that helped him win this election will probably evaporate.
- kayamon 10y agoI doubt he wrote that speech. Don't believe for a minute that he's had some kind of change of heart. Just listen to the non-scripted stuff he's been saying at his rallies lately -- that's the guy we're going to get.
- dennisgorelik 10y agoIt was a competitive game for Trump. Election campaign was one stage (that required being aggressive). Actually running a country is another stage, so he is using a different tactic (cooperation with other politicians).
- dennisgorelik 10y ago> 4 years of aimlessness. Keeping political engine running without dramatic changes - is a good outcome for the country.
- baybal2 10y agoNya nya nya;)
- juiced 10y agoLet's reject the low-impact politics going insane and instead focus on the advancements of high-impact technologies.
- daveheq 10y agoCongratulations to the party that supports corporate profits over clean water, clean air, health, wealth and mental health of the working class, religion over science and education, and power over empowerment. We'll know what it's like for the Republicans to rule the world for four years, and the who just had his staff convicted will now pick Trump's staff.
- maged07 10y agooh no
- maged07 10y agooh no
- maged07 10y agoi don't beleave
- veeragoni 10y agoA good reminder to the hackernews article posted a while ago. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12043428 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12043428
- blondie9x 10y ago#RepealElectoralCollege yet again this system has failed us with someone being elected with less votes than opponent. This system is broken.
- cryptica 10y agoI'm surprised by how many of my non-US friends are calling Americans 'Stupid' right now on social media for voting for Trump. I think that the Trump victory actually shows the opposite; that Americans are smart enough to think for themselves regardless of what the media tells them. They got to the meat of the information without buying into all the spin that the media put around it. I strongly disagree with several things that Trump stands for but I think that overall this is a really good outcome. It shows that the people are still in control - Not the media, not the celebrities, not the elites. That is reassuring.
- d--b 10y agoYou don't think this is the results of years of twisted information by news outlet like fox news and friends? I mean we're talking mostly white people living in the countryside voting to curb illegal immigration. We're talking about fairly unwealthy people voting for a tax-evading billionaire because they relate to him as a simple man. The media has a role to play for sure, but it's not as simple as "at least people aren't spoon fed left-leaning media bullshit."
- vinaybn 10y agoIt shouldn't be surprising though, because outsiders would only know as much as the media tells them. They have no vested interest, like the citizens do, in making an informed decision
- angry-hacker 10y agoWhile I never ever wanted Trump because of the geopolitical situation in eastern Europe, I can understand Americans who voted for him. You can't turn a dead eye on half of the population, call them stupid, racist, bigoted (heck, some even argue here democracy doesn't work and the people who voted shouldn't be able to vote, go figure.) and then expect the worst habitual liar, a psycho candidate to win. It was literally the easiest elections in the history for the Democrats, but somehow they were able to fuck up. Let's see what the future brings. From a personal point of view, I hope Nato stays (somewhat) strong. Again, I understand the anger of your people for us, Europeans, outsourcing the defense budget to American taxpayers (while it does come with some benefits).
- tormeh 10y agoI think we worry for nothing about his campaign promises. I guess he's a sociopath and a con man. He doesn't give a shit about what he's promised. Before he won he was going to jail Hillary, but now he says that "we all" owe her. What's he going to do in office? He'll want what he always wants: To win. Doubtlessly he'll try to enrich himself, but other than that it's kind of hard to tell.
- thrillgore 10y agoTomorrow I am going to contact a legal firm to start the processes needed to prove my UK Citizenship, as the son of a UK Citizen.
- kabdib 10y agoSo, how likely is it that the election was tipped by electronic fraud?
- readhn 10y agoMay be, just may be, after these elections the USA will pause and think about how we got here in the first place? when the only choices we got left are the "same old crooked politician" vs "egocentric billionaire with bathroom fixtures made of gold". As George Carlin would say: "This is the best we got folks. These are the best people the country got to offer! So.. ENJOY the circus!!"
- throwaway274739 10y agoThis is absolutely horrifying. To know that there are so many rural, angry white men who are so driven by hatred. There are just no words. This is a huge win for racism, misogyny and hate. I just don't know how this disgusting country is going to survive.
- adamrezich 10y agoBoy am I ever glad that the world I live in doesn't in any way resemble the world you live in.
- aardshark 10y agoThere's a number of people throughout this thread espousing the same opinion, using similarly divisive doomsday rhetoric. Doesn't this reaction seem hyperbolic? It's impossible for angry racist white men alone to elect Trump. What about all the Hispanic, black, Asian, female and other minority voters who must have voted for him? Would you dismiss their view as 'misguided', or would you listen to their opinions and concerns? I respect that you are passionate about the candidates, but I feel that the certainty you have when you dismiss all Trump voters as racist hateful misogynists is surely misplaced.
- paki123 10y agoAmerica: Grab life by the pussy
- paki123 10y agoAmerica: Grab life by the pussy
- DavajDavaj 10y agoI think that this is also a backslash against the PC, SJW, safe-space, trigger-warning, micro aggression tendencies that have been spreading in the U.S. for the last couple of years. This has become too much and millions of Americans are fed up with it, they have now spoken out.
- criley2 10y agoI hope everyone in this thread realizes that what they do: writing software and creating machines to replace uneducated lower income white workers -- is probably the single greatest driver to white economic anxiety and the rise of modern white nationalism. The scary thing is... none of us will stop. Our software, our robots, our big data, how many millions more will be displaced by the next election? How long until taxis and trucks are being massively displaced? With automation we're digging a grave and the people whom are getting put into that grave will turn to anyone -- anyone -- who promises they can change it. Donald Trump will be the first of many populist white nationalists in the West who meekly promise they can stop globalization and automation. They can't. Those jobs are dead men walking. The white working class is a zombie, undead, going through the motions, with twenty million more jobs on the cutting block in the next decade. A billion guns, a hundred million angry poor white people, and all we're doing is displacing them and validating their anger. What an industry.
- shawn-butler 10y agoI don't know why anyone listens to social science "experts" at all without asking significant methodological questions in the future. I keep hearing how it is unbelievable how there is a 55% approval rating of the current sitting president and yet... If it were me I guess I would be asking how exactly yet another made-up "fact" is calculated / rendered believable rather than just parroting more nonsense.
- pcunite 10y agoThoughts on the election: For the past year, I've have been made to feel stupid (only the uneducated back Trump), violent (we cause rioting), abusive (can't treat women correctly), uncool (Lady Gaga tells me), and you name it. Fake patriots are everywhere and they did not even have the courage to explain what this was all about. Last night was nothing short of a miracle. God stepped in and brought the victory over all the lying, cheating polling stations and managers. It was amazing. Trump won even though they had totally rigged it against him! There is still a lot left to do. And just like finding out your best friend is not perfect, Trump has a lot to learn. He needs our future support and prayers. There is so much corruption and he is not experienced with this. Many will claim to be on his side (people "love" winners) and it will take time to identify the fakes. The news media is lying to you. Think for yourselves.
- ant6n 10y ago> Last night was nothing short of a miracle Honest question: Why are you on Hacker News?
- pcunite 10y agoI am a member of the technology community making computers and related devices more enjoyable for people who must use them everyday. I guess you're insinuating that we differ to such a great degree that I should not be present. I was in the industry before a lot of startups made their first pitch. I will be present long after.
- ant6n 10y agoNo I'm insinuating that serious talk of miracles by God seems antithetical to the strong scientific slant on this site.
- Avalaxy 10y ago> God stepped in and brought the victory Ehh yea... No.
- 10y ago
- nthcolumn 10y agoTIL that you can be an intellectually challenged, racist, misogynistic, lying, tax dodging sex pest and still be president of the USA.
- ant6n 10y agoIt's all okay. You're allowed to be a racist now.
- beaner 10y agoI guess this is pretty obviously just blatant trolling and should be downvoted, but if not, you're only proving my point. You should also take the time to read the "Smug style in American liberalism" post that is also trending. [1] [1] http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberali...
- ant6n 10y agoWell, I'm not an American, so there's that. I'm actually a real lefty, you know, one of those people who care about income inequality, and who want real change, and think the US too much resembles an oligarchy, with a tendency of authoritarian corporatism (=fascism). I get the protest vote that Trump represents. Except I believe his pandering to the poor is only pandering, in reality he only has a his own interest in mind. But also, he's a xonophobic, sexist, racist with fascist tendencies, and he seems to have invigorated those tendencies in people. "Overcoming" pc is one of his big accomplishments. If saying that makes me a 'smug style liberal', so be it.
- beaner 10y agoWhat makes you smug was your comment that I'm a racist, knowing only that I "vaguely support trump" without knowing why. The article is a good read, you might learn something. Heaven forbid.
- ant6n 10y agoHaha, who is smug now? But seriously, what I meant is that you _can_ be a racist now. I don't know whether you are, although as a Trump supporter (even a vague one) it's a bit of a worry (certainly Trump supporters seem to be accepting of racism). The point is that having a such an important office held by a racist often means the population follows, previously deplored attitudes and actions become mainstream. When right-wing populists get elected, there's often a surge in xenophobic attacks (verbal or otherwise). So what I'm saying is, you don't have to worry as much about being derided as a Trump supporter now, because the associated behaviors have suddenly become much more accepted.
- ant6n 10y ago> * cheating against wildly popular Sanders Do you have any source for this? It seems that Clinton won even without the super delegates.
- agumonkey 10y agoWhoelse thinks that Trump is and will mostly be a joke. That none of is populist antics will really reach our realm (mexican wall, anti climate research deeds, ...). That he and his team will get a reality check when nature, life, mind changing people will start to resist bits by bits to nonsensical projects ?
- DanBC 10y agoJust being elected will unleash all sorts of stuff. After Brexit the rates of hate crime in the UK rose significantly, and they're still at those high levels. Since people were openly chanting "Jew S A" at Trump rallies it's not hard to image that some people will feel that more than speech is fine.
- agumonkey 10y agoAh, I thought the violence in UK went back since and was only an event spike. Concerning state indeed. So a path toward sustained crazy isn't that impossible.
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- supergirl 10y agoWho cares
- CyberSkull5702 10y ago...
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- radisb 10y agoU.S Elections 2016: "Pure Evil" vs "Corrupted Good" Some people see this a battle between purity and corruption, Some see this as a battle between good and evil. I think the difference in meaning,interpretation and semantics in the context of politics is much more distinguishable when we compare purity and corruption than when we compare good and evil.
- mtw 10y agoAt least Twitter will be saved! He won't allow a company to go under while it's his favorite media :)
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- dang 10y agoIt pains me to see HN serving pages so slowly, so I'm going to try an experiment and bury the current thread for a minute or two. Don't worry, we'll restore it or an equivalent; momentous stories like this one (or Brexit) are exceptions to the general rule against politics here. I just want to see if not having to render 2000 comments so often will let us catch a breath. Edit: ok, that definitely helped. I think the easiest solution might be to post a different story, let that one make the front page, and link to this thread from there. The WaPo article is a bit old at this point anyhow. If you'd like to be a good citizen—and what would be a better time for that?—then please log out to read HN today, unless you want to comment. Then we can serve you from cache and HN's single-core Racket process will creak slightly less under the strain.
- ohyoutravel 10y agoI am logging out to read as requested, but out of curiosity, why does logging out help the page loads?
- elsurudo 10y agoProbably due to caching. The page looks exactly the same to all logged-out users, but need customization for logged-in users.
- piyush_soni 10y agoI still don't get it much (not a web developer). The only customization that I see is probably in the top bar. Can nothing be done that the page contents are still loaded from the cache but the top bar is loaded separately and customized for logged in users?
- elsurudo 10y agoSure, it can be. You'd either need to cache the portion without the top bar (so you still need to generate some HTML), or load the same page for everyone, and then do an AJAX request for the top bar, for example. Each has its pros and cons. Both of these increase complexity though, so they may not have done either.
- devy 10y agoWhereas almost no political pundit would expect Trump to be the president-elect, there is one guy consistently predicted the result. His name is Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert[1]. Also worth mentioning is that Bloomberg ran an length article about Trump's campaign team and how they operate. One interesting tibits was the fact that the same team behind Brexit was also the major helper in the late stage of Trump's campaign. That team is Cambridge Analytica[2], funded primarily by Hedgefund manager/computer scientist Robert Mercer from Renaissance Technologies. [1] blog.dilbert.com [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica
- tgb29 10y agoI'm disappointed in YCombinator and SamA's attitude towards Trump and his supporters throughout this campaign. However, it's not YCombinator's fault, and I will blame the Mainstream Media for successfully distorting the views of so many smart and good Americans.
- tgb29 10y agoI'm disappointed in YCombinator and SamA's attitude towards Trump and his supporters throughout this campaign. However, it's not YCombinator's fault, and I will blame the Mainstream Media for successfully distorting the views of so many smart and good Americans.
- devy 10y agoWhereas almost no political pundit would expect Trump to be the president-elect, there is one guy consistently predicted the result. His name is Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert[1]. Also worth mentioning is that Bloomberg ran an length article about Trump's campaign team and how they operate. One interesting tibits was the fact that the same team behind Brexit was also the major helper in the late stage of Trump's campaign. That team is Cambridge Analytica[2], funded primarily by Hedgefund manager/computer scientist Robert Mercer from Renaissance Technologies. Mercer was a major donor of Republican party and indirectly helped Trump pick Kellyanne Conway as his one and final campaign manager. [1] blog.dilbert.com [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica [3] http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-brexit-us-presidential-election-2016-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-brexit-us-presid...
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- amai 10y agoGermany says: "Refugees welcome! (But don't bring your guns with you)" https://www.facebook.com/martin.sonneborn/posts/10211168800886311 https://www.facebook.com/martin.sonneborn/posts/102111688008...
- mikorym 10y agoI wonder if the Russian Troll Factory is active on this thread.
- diyseguy 10y agoHe won because the extreme left is devolving into an oppressive free-speech vacuum http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/09/trump-won-because-leftist-political-corr http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/09/trump-won-because-leftist-...
- gravityskills 10y agoLet see regarding new policies
- taxipleasanton 10y agolet see the his new policies
- GottsKreider 10y agoThank the Lord Almighty for Divine Interevention