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Deutsche Bank becomes first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe
- JimmyBuckets 2mo agoIt will be interesting to see how much of Thucydides Trap plays out in currency and trade as opposed to military conflict. I am hopeful that economic and financial warfare absorbs the brunt of the power struggle.
- iugtmkbdfil834 2mo agoCan you elaborate a little? I suspect it is a well known concept, but its the first time I heard of it in this context.
- ForHackernews 2mo agoRising power challenges the fading imperial hegemony. In this case, CNY displacing USD.
- baxtr 2mo agoIs China still rising or already in decline?
- ForHackernews 2mo agoRelative to the US or Europe? I think you know the answer to that.
- edgyquant 2mo agoRelative to the US it’s not a straightforward answer but China is definitely not rising in the way it was a decade ago and has been outpaced by the us
- myrmidon 2mo agoChina has a massive demographic problem in the near future (after 2040ish), and it is extremely unlikely (IMO) that it is going to catch up/surpass the US in GDP per capita within the next decades. But its relative GDP growth has been higher than the US for decades, is higher stil and is probably going to stay higher for years: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/real-gdp-growth?country=USA~CHN https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/real-gdp-growth?country=U...
- edgyquant 2mo agoBut the gap between the us and China in terms of GDP has widened in recent years making it look like China will never surpass the us
- myrmidon 2mo agoNever surpass in what exactly? If you look at absolute numbers (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gdp-worldbank-constant-usd?tab=line&country=USA~CHN&mapSelect=USA~CHN https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/gdp-worldbank-constant-us...), it seems likely that China will surpass the US economy pretty soon (they're a lot more people though, so per-capita is much worse). Personally I think its most likely that chinese GDP will be larger than US GDP within 2035, but that the median citizen is NOT going to catch up to US standards in the next 50 years. And their whole society will run into the exact same problems that many western countries are dealing with already (increasing fraction of retirees), so I'd be very careful with extrapolating their currently superior growth rate past 2040 or so.
- tokai 2mo agoThe answer is really not a clear cut as you assume any longer.
- Markoff 2mo agotheir yough unemployment rate sure is rising, it sure ain't great to be young Chinese looking for job now https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/15/business/china-youth-unemployment.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/15/business/china-youth-unem... https://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/d01203/ https://www.nippon.com/en/in-depth/d01203/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1pedov5/oc_the_rise_of_youth_unemployment_in_china/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1pedov5/oc... also there are salary paycuts for people who already have work, my Chinese clients tried this, but not gonna accept it, I will rather lose such client than lower my rate, I am losing money by not increasing my rates over many years already despite huge EU cummulative inflation and EU salaries growth by my experience visiting country after almost 10 years last year just by looking at salaries, restaurant prices, real estate prices/rent their economy seems to be stagnating in last 10 years, restaurant meal cost pretty much same as 10 years ago, same goes for entry level salaries like waitress, cook and other you can see in street they are getting stronger overall, though doesn't seem like middle class is benefiting from it, my CN family bought apartment many years ago and they would have problem to sell it for same price, let alone make any profit on it
- curuinor 2mo agoCNY displacing USD would entail allowing people outside China to buy really significant quantities of CNY-denominated financial products. This would entail CNY/USD changing so CNY is more expensive, because the default currency for financial products currently existing is USD. Which would slap a corresponding huge price increase with 0 increase in quality to all Chinese export. Which would murder Chinese manufacturing export. Which would entail laying off some grand proportion of an industry that employs 5% of the _human_ race. Which is why they're not gonna do that.
- pocksuppet 2mo agoSame thing that happened to USD, right? Once the USA stopped having to actually manufacture things to get money, it stopped actually manufacturing things.
- WarmWash 2mo agoChina is step by step learning that communism actually sucks and doesn't work. Unless you can have a super intelligence that can monitor every aspect of everything all the time to ensure optimal decisions. Hmmmm...
- quickthrowman 2mo agoI’ll believe it when I see it, there’s a spread between onshore and offshore yuan exchange rates due to currency manipulation. It becomes harder to manipulate a currency as more of it is created, and AFAIK countries are not loading up on Chinese govt debt, but I may just be unaware? The USD hegemony isn’t because of oil, it’s because everyone wants dollar-denominated assets. Treasury bonds, US real estate, US equities, etc. Possibly Chinese exports could soak up some of the yuan demand?
- ImHereToVote 2mo agoI don't think China wants to make the CNY the reserve currency because it would decimate China as a manufacturing hub. They prefer China to be Jakob to the U.S. being Esau. The red lentil soup can be quite bitter.
- detourdog 2mo agoPresident Xi of China mentioned it when the US President visited him in May. https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty-research/policy-topics/international-relations-security/president-xi-jinping-invokes-hks https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty-research/policy-topics/i...
- nubg 2mo agoutterly repulsive ai slop
- igorkraw 2mo agoThe how of the reference seems important, it's not like he brought it up first apparently >Xi has referenced Allison’s term before. In a speech in Seattle in 2015, Xi said, “There is no such thing as the so-called Thucydides Trap.” And in an October 2023 meeting with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, Xi said, “The ‘Thucydides’ Trap’ is not inevitable, and Planet Earth is vast enough to accommodate the respective development and common prosperity of China and the United States.
- detourdog 2mo agoDo you think Xi's comments are specifically that war is imminent?
- JimmyBuckets 2mo agoEssentially its the idea that the interaction between an incumbent power and rising "challenger" power inevitably leads to war between the two. I was expressing my hope that if this does happen, the war can play out in less destructive arenas - one of which is in the competition for reserve currency status which the US has held for the whole of the modern era. This article possibly points at China's first shots in this conflict. Edit: credit LarsDu88 for correcting me on its age. I originally stated the idea was very old (2.5k years) but actually its a recent idea based on an ancient conflict between Athens and Sparta
- WJW 2mo agoThe obvious counterexample would be the previous most powerful empire in the world (ie the UK) ceding that title to the USA after collapsing after WW2? No war between the UK and the US was needed.
- JimmyBuckets 2mo agoThe UK was a declining power that had been absolutely gutted by war and owed huge debts to the US that it had accrued to fund the war. I believe Thucydides Trap is more about the situation we have now with the US and China where both are moving from strength to strength.
- WJW 2mo agoI'm not really seeing the USA moving from strength to strength lately TBH. Iran is a disaster, the Navy now has 3 (or 4, depending how you count) failed warship projects in a row, economic growth outside the AI/datacenter boom has dropped to near zero and the internal political climate is polarized to the point of inactivity. Most of its traditional allies have been moving to distance themselves from the USA and worldwide trust in the USA as "leader of the free world" is at the lowest point in decades. But quite beyond that, I'm just saying that the Thucydides trap is not an iron rule. The first place I looked was a counterexample and I'm sure there have been many more over the centuries.
- kachnuv_ocasek 2mo agoI, for one, would appreciate if we could just move on past these incessantly destructive power struggles as humanity.
- edgyquant 2mo agoHumans can not “move on” from human nature no matter how much people try to will it
- kachnuv_ocasek 2mo agoIt's as much "human nature" as being a slave was once the nature of some (chosen) peoples.
- victorbjorklund 2mo agoConflict between humans is much much more nature than slavery was. Just look at animals. Flock animals often have conflicts which others. But none of them have ”slaves” (at least no how humans understand it)
- usrnm 2mo agoThere is a different between a conflict and a war. Humans are uniquely violent and cruel to each other, there is nothing even close in the animal world
- igorkraw 2mo agoYou should learn about chimpanzee wars and how dolphins treat tortoises, and about the enslaving ants
- joshuaissac 2mo ago> how dolphins treat tortoises Do you mean porpoises? Dolphins are not known for mistreating tortoises but porpoises.
- aprentic 2mo agoChina has some internal documents that address the Thucydides Trap with a Chinese idiom, "There are no just wars in the Spring and Autumn Period."
- andsoitis 2mo ago> China has some internal documents how did you get to see them? that must be a very interesting story.
- aprentic 2mo agoIt depends on what you find interesting. No crazy spy stories but I've been learning Chinese, so I've spent more time looking at things that are only written or said in Chinese. Project 2025 wasn't really secret but it wasn't in the public consciousness until about a year later https://trends.google.com/explore?q=project%20202&date=today%205-y&geo=US https://trends.google.com/explore?q=project%20202&date=today... China also has a bunch of political philosophy nerds that crank out wonky policy papers. I keep finding references to this one by Wu Bikang, https://www.rmlt.com.cn/2014/0403/253621.shtml https://www.rmlt.com.cn/2014/0403/253621.shtml I'm still very bad at Chinese and I don't assume that I understand that paper well, even with translations, but that paper clearly interprets the Thucydides trap very differently from how it's discussed here.
- igorkraw 2mo agoWhich of I understand the Wikipedia article correctly would mean it's a euphemism for "there are no just wars"?
- aprentic 2mo agoChinese idioms can be notoriously difficult to interpret. From what I've seen, they're often an abbreviation of some passage from a famous text. The listener is expected to know the rest of that text and all the major commentaries that go with it. I absolutely do not have a solid grasp of the full works of Mencius and I have fairly anemic knowledge of the derivative works but I'm fairly sure it's not just a simple euphemism. My read of the idiom is that Chinese political philosophers claim that the basis of Western political philosophy is the balance of power between hegemons and the basis of Chinese political philosophy is the concept of the righteous rule/mandate of heaven. His implication seems to be that Western nations are held together primarily by force whereas the CPC primarily maintains power by serving the people.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- onetokeoverthe 2mo ago[dead]
- DC-3 2mo agoWhat does that mean?
- rvz 2mo agoIt means the dollar is dying.
- glimshe 2mo agoPeople have been saying the dollar is dying since the 19th century. They said it again during the Great Depression, the end of Bretton Woods and the 2008 Financial crisis..
- YesThatTom2 2mo agoThe difference is now the US has a leader that is actively encouraging its downfall.
- herbst 2mo agoAnd people actively rooting for it even
- Moldoteck 2mo agoUS dollar value was held by several pillars, among which- pax americana, petro dollar/assets and innovation sector. Pax americana is dismantled by US itself. Petro chemicals are threatened by ren transition and China. Tech sector still ensures having a lead in innovations. Guess what'll happen when/if pax americana will be fully dead, most important economies like EU/China/India will be able to supply own needs with less petrol products since the rest will com from ren and when/if tech AI pops/turns into a fiasco. Nothing lasts forever and US dollar is no exception
- hk__2 2mo agoThose people were right, it’s just that it will take more time that what they though.
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- sigma5 2mo ago"but at what cost" ?
- wirj34iuh324uh2 2mo agoI'll pay. https://genius.com/Jc-chandor-margin-call-boardroom-scene-annotated https://genius.com/Jc-chandor-margin-call-boardroom-scene-an...
- FrustratedMonky 2mo agoThe end of the Petro Dollar? Soviet-China-Iran - Petro Yuan? /edit for the pedantic. Russian Federation.
- kibwen 2mo agoThere won't be a petro-anything. In 30 years the oil industry will no longer be the resource upon which the whole world turns, and will instead be just another industrial input.
- thehumanmeat 2mo agoThere was never a petro-anything. It's always been and is the Eurodollar global reserve currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurodollar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurodollar
- FrustratedMonky 2mo ago[flagged]
- FrustratedMonky 2mo agoOne can only hope. This current crises has been a boon for alternative energy sources. Really has driven home the point to even the most 'head-in-sand-right-winger' that Solar is a National Defense issue, not a woke agenda.
- smalllangmodel 2mo agoSoviet?
- victorbjorklund 2mo agoRussia and Iran are irrelevant in the global economy.
- andsoitis 2mo ago> Russia and Iran are irrelevant in the global economy. They're modest by raw economic size, but outsized in relevance due to energy resources and geopolitical leverage.
- avisser 2mo agoIs it a yuan or is it a Renminbi?
- rf15 2mo agoBoth. Renminbi is the currency name, while the yuan is the base unit.
- xingped 2mo agoIt's a little confusing, but technically RMB (renminbi) is the official name of the currency and CNY (yuan) is the base unit of the currency. Think of it like the difference between USD ("US Dollar") vs "dollar and cents", except there is no fractional yuan equivalent of cents, so it's all just yuan.
- darrenf 2mo agoPretty sure the jiao (角) (1/10th of a yuan) is still in use?
- xingped 2mo agoOh yeah, you're right, I forgot about that. It doesn't really get used much except occasionally for very small transactions, usually ones less than 10yuan.
- Markoff 2mo agonobody really use jiao (1/10th RMB/CNY), same as nobody really use yuan (CNY/RMB) they are called mao (1/10th RMB/CNY) and kuai (CNY/RMB) in China but mao pretty much dont exist anymore now with electronic QR payments everywhere even in food stalls, heck even beggars have QR codes and fen is for many many years more like some monopoly money papers
- mytailorisrich 2mo agoNo there are cents, they are called fen (分). It's in Japan that it's all just Yen.
- zer00eyz 2mo agoDeutsche banks slogan should be "If you need to do something shady call Deutsche". At some point china will loose the ability to keep its global currency (Yuan, should be inflating) decoupled from the domestic one (Renminbi is deflating). They have been keeping long running issues in Banking, and Relestate at bay but a global recession (and were on the cusp it seems) is going to be brutal to china. I suspect that if (when?) that hits this will turn into another Deutsche scandal.
- benhill70 2mo agoYou are getting down voted, but folks really need to look at DB extremely shady history. Read the list for yourselves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank#Controversies
- zer00eyz 2mo agoI pointed out the actual issue at hand for china with its currency - and that implies why DB would be a solid choice for them to use that bank. The thread devolving into a debate about "reserve currency" is - to be blunt - deeply misinformed. Chinas bond liability and the currency its priced in is the ultimate contra indicator into how its going to handle the coming storm.
- pizzathyme 2mo agoThe US wields incredible negotiating power and hegemony because the dollar is the world’s reserve currency. Like the British pound and the Dutch guilder before it, if that loses reserve currency status it will be harder to borrow on favorable terms, which would affect the entire US economy. This is a big step in that perhaps starting to happen over the next few decades.
- smalllangmodel 2mo agoI really hope this is one step into a more multipolar world, maybe without a single hegemon the world is easier to change for the better
- ForHackernews 2mo agoHistorically a more multipolar world has been a more violent and chaotic world, but maybe this time will be better.
- smalllangmodel 2mo agoWell I wouldn't say it's peaceful now, or has been in the past... Actually there's few years that the US wasn't at war.
- zeryx 2mo agoCompared to the time of great powers before WW1 and during, this has been by far the most peaceful the globe has been for a very long time
- dimitrios1 2mo agoPlease, for the love of God, speak to someone who is actually from a war torn country and understand how privileged all of us have been to live in the west. Even the wars we have been part of in the middle east have been minor disruptions to the Pax Americana: we really don't feel the effect of the wars we are in.(another problem in of itself). 99% of us got to grow up without the fear of military violence, and go about our lives.
- Alien1Being 2mo agoTrump is making China great again. Pity about the USA....
- pocksuppet 2mo agoAfter he already decimated the meat and oil industries. How very woke of him.
- qprofyeh 2mo agoI wonder if it has anything to do with the currency apparently being backed by an immense reserve of oil (proven to the world by this year's geopolitical events), then coal, and then a massive amount of renewable solar, hydro, wind kWh's and infrastructure to deliver it to homes and shops. More and more it feels like a nation's kWh throughput is the new metric to track its global influence in manufacturing, industry, and financial services. In other words electric power now equates to global power.
- trillic 2mo agoThe more interconnected the grid gets, the more true this becomes.
- lopsotronic 2mo agoI've always sort-of-joked[1] about a "Blood Standard": your status as reserve currency is proportional to the percentage of the world population your nation can murder in 12 months. Puts a hard floor on nations with strategic nuclear deterrents - they can never fall below a fairly high threshold, no matter how much of a "Security State Zombie" their national economies have become. [1] I'm not 100% sure it's all me joking anymore.
- ang_cire 2mo agoI mean, Russia's currency is in the toilet, and if even just 10% of their nukes are actually functional they probably kill a significant percentage of the world pop.
- lopsotronic 2mo agoRussia's desperately terrible internal financials, applied to any nation lacking strategic deterrence, would have brought them a lot more pain. I sort of jokingly contend that they're floated by a theoretical "Blood Standard", in addition to the very distributed basket of commodities they built their country on top of. The problem here is that I've got the mechanism reversed. Blood Standard measures negative power - the capacity to destroy. Reserve status tracks positive power - the ability to keep other states from destruction. So maybe what the Blood Standard really represents is super-sovereignty - you never get under the thumb of IMF, you never get invaded, you don't lose control of internal monetary policy a la Argentina. Thinking about it, the Swiss break this model, but from the other direction. "We will never ever screw with you" and in return they get seen as safe. Again it's a bit of a lark, but it's not as funny anymore, as the growth curve in positive economics hits some natural physical limits along with a very deep gravity well.
- roschdal 2mo agoI don't like, trust or trade with China.
- smalllangmodel 2mo agoBut america xD
- herbst 2mo agoIt's very easy to avoid American products (there aren't many here in Europe you can't easily avoid) but it's kinda impossible to do the same with china. Except software/web, avoiding US tech is kinda complicated too.
- kklisura 2mo agoIf there's one thing you can do now that will set you up for the next 20–30 years: it’s learning Mandarin.
- argentinian 2mo agoWith advanced AI real time translation I don't see any need for that.
- kalleboo 2mo agoWith pervasive AI agents, intrapersonal trust between humans is going to be more important than ever. Completely real-time translation is an impossibility since languages have different sentence orders, so it will always be an awkward filter with fits and starts that erodes trust.
- tdeck 2mo agoThe trouble is that a billion people speak Mandarin already and many of them speak very good English as well, so your own skillset as a second language learner isn't very likely to be valuable. Unfortunately learning any language is rarely a valuable market skill on its own.
- crabette 2mo agoRight now Mandarin speakers in Europe are in high demand for contract support, it's different when you have a translator on a site with culture matching yours then having it in contractor's country.
- Markoff 2mo agotell that to my wife - native Chinese speaker - unable to find job in Europe, what you say may work for someone speaking perfectly local language (other than English), but not for just English/Chinese combo without 3rd language just language itself isn't enough
- aljgz 2mo agoChange happens gradually, and then suddenly.
- andsoitis 2mo agoit also stops, reverses, is interpreted incorrectly, has unforeseen second order effects, etc.
- barbecue_sauce 2mo agoIn the immortal words of Milhouse, "First it started falling over, and then it fell over."
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- athrowaway3z 2mo agoWould this also mean we can get a EuroDollar systems for the Yuan? As in, Deutsche Bank can create loans denominated in Yuan without Chinese central bank control?
- kasey_junk 2mo agoA bank can do this already. But it puts them in an awkward position for hedging their currency risk as they can’t be assured that they’ll be able to cover any shortfalls or invest any surpluses. I actually don’t know the ends and outs of the pboc clearing rules but to get access to the mainland repo funding and official fx rates you have to be in good standing so direct clearing banks like deutche and J.P. Morgan in practice are more under Chinese control, not less.
- pocksuppet 2mo agoEurodollar is based on physical cash reserves outside of the USA, right? Otherwise they can indirectly control it.
- BaardFigur 2mo agoNot a good thing. China is an authoritarian regime, which we need to reduce dependency on, not increase it.
- matheusmoreira 2mo agoThe US is not that different.
- SanjayMehta 2mo agoThe US is infinitely worse, at least China is predictable.
- matheusmoreira 2mo agoYeah, can't say I disagree. I expected Trump to be authoritarian but I thought he'd actually at least try to be smart about it.
- OutOfHere 2mo agoYou don't know the meaning of the words. Ask the Philippines how unpredictable China is in the South China sea.
- SanjayMehta 2mo agoYou don't know who is the President of the USA.
- OutOfHere 2mo agoAnd how is that relevant? You have a bad habit of routinely making extremist statements without backing them up. It is not the first time I have seen you do it. The US is not an authoritarian regime. To call it infinitely worse than China in this regard is false, and is a laughable claim. The President will be out in a few years.
- lenerdenator 2mo agoAh, yes, the best way to react to increased authoritarianism in the US is to checks notes begin doing more business with a country that is the final word in authoritarianism.
- blahblaher 2mo agothe big difference is that China is not bombing anyone, and causing chaos to it's allies..
- lenerdenator 2mo ago> not bombing anyone Not that they wouldn't bomb Taiwan if they thought they could get away with it. The reason they can't, of course, is that doing so carries the risk of starting a thermonuclear war with the United States. > causing chaos to it's [sic] allies... Well, there's two ways to think about this. 1) China doesn't really have allies. They've a long history of pissing off their neighborhood extending back centuries. 2) They very much are causing chaos to allies, given that the Vietnamese went so far as to buy American military goods to help defend their portion of the South China Sea, which China sees as theirs.
- westpfelia 2mo ago> Not that they wouldn't bomb Taiwan if they thought they could get away with it. There is zero evidence of this. The last time China even engaged in a direct military conflict was the 1970s. Where as even before Trump America could have invaded almost any country on the planet. and it wouldnt have been to shocking.
- tgv 2mo ago> There is zero evidence of this. Ah, all those exercises are just for fun.
- xyzsparetimexyz 2mo ago
- mrtksn 2mo agoI have this pet theory that is fueled with ignorance but kind of make sense to me: The correct value of the USD would be adjusted to match the tech company valuations sans AI(Apple can be a good guide IMHO) when they serve 350M people instead of 8B people as AI makes software obsolete and the geopolitics and the US government behavior dismantles any network or lock in effects.
- blurbleblurble 2mo agoI'm interested to understand your theory better but right now the way you've expressed it is hard to make sense of for me.
- mrtksn 2mo agoAs I said, it is fueled with ignorance and I’m sure that it is complete bullshit when examined closely but the reason I kind of find it possible is that currently the American companies have a reach that is order of magnitude bigger than the American population and their valuations as well as their profits are based on that. What America is currently doing is dismantling of the world order that made this possible, therefore the American companies will have drastically reduced reach, i.e. Apple for example, won’t be able to sell hundreds of millions of iPhones per quarter because there are not that many Americans to buy that. Instead of the Market crashing in nominal values, maybe the value of the dollar we will crash. So Apple will still be $4T but an new iPhone will be $10K. Yes, I’m just throwing some bs numbers around but IMHO things will have to make sense eventually when US can’t just print infinite dollars without crashing its value and Apple can’t just sell iPhones to the entire planet due to wars and trade barriers that are becoming the new normal.
- bux93 2mo agoYou're not wrong in theory. If you're a small country, your currency's day-to-day purchasing power is influenced strongly by your imports and exports. If you have few things other countries want to buy, there's less demand for your currency, and it will go down in value as expressed in your trade partner's currency. A sustained trade deficit (more imports than exports) might mean your currency goes down and down in value. Certainly if some politicians decide to close the borders, you will export even less, but will probably still need some necessities from abroad, and you have a financial crisis. The US is a huge whopping exception to this strong correlation between the balance of trade and currency strength. US exceptionalism is usually wrong, but in this case, the US dollar being the 'reserve currency' of the world is an incredible boon. The US has been able to sustain a huge trade deficit for decades without sky high inflation (you think it's bad now, it's nothing). In fact, foreign goods keep getting cheaper and the US dollar and services keep getting more valuable. A lot of this is because foreigners are willing to keep their savings invested in dollars (stocks & bonds, including the magnificent 7) rather than selling off their dollars to buy e.g. Chinese goods. Also note that the tech companies make up a small portion of imports/exports. But.. If trade restrictions (or security concerns) make it harder for the magnificent 7 to make money abroad, their profits will go down and there could also be an outflow of capital that puts inflationary pressure on the dollar, just because US stocks and bonds are less attractive - the trade deficit increasing would also contribute a bit, but it would be a much smaller effect. An economy being propped up by foreign capital is not just a US phenomenon, the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997, Turkey 2000, Mexico 1994 - these crashes all were cause by sudden capital outflows. The proximate cause was a short term arbitrage trade, rather than those currencies being in extensive (structural) demand. This concern is also why China doesn't let foreigners invest directly in Chinese companies. You can only buy weird derivative certificates that trade on a Hong Kong exchange and are subject to tight capital controls if need be. Things like a domestic tax on imported goods/services (also called tariffs) are unlikely to lower the trade deficit unless there is already an industry domestically to absorb the demand.
- zefir 2mo agoI wonder if this might be a reaction to the "blindsided" ECB, following a US decision to prop up the Japanese yen. This would be an interesting fracture. https://www.ft.com/content/d9922d0b-51a0-48be-811b-42e08f90985a https://www.ft.com/content/d9922d0b-51a0-48be-811b-42e08f909...
- Havoc 2mo agoDoubtful. The clearing house thing must have been in discussions for years already.
- cluckindan 2mo ago[flagged]
- cromka 2mo agoWhich high street bank wasn't? Seriously...
- embedding-shape 2mo agoIs there any of the large-large banks that haven't at one point been involved in all sorts of money laundering? Feels like it's almost a rite of passage for the banks.
- TacticalCoder 2mo agoThe latest public CIA World Factbook numbers estimated that the percentage linked to crime was 3% to 5% of the world's entire GDP. BTW the CIA should know something about it... In other words, whether they know it or not, every single bank in the world is involved in money laundering. P.S: I don't know if that's true or not but some people have made the case that there are, percentage-wise, less transactions linked to crime on the public, transparent, ledgers that are the blockchains than in the real banking system.
- libertas_quae_s 2mo ago[flagged]
- t3hTao 2mo agoBank who did some dark stuff with Trump and Russia is working with China? I'm shocked!
- hnussffjc9 2mo ago[flagged]
- christkv 2mo ago[dead]
- jagermo 2mo agoOf course it's Deutsche Bank, I am sure nothing shady will come of that.
- mjg2 2mo agoRight. The favorite bank of Epstein's cash account will surely keep its integrity /s - https://fortune.com/2025/10/08/deutsche-bank-and-jeffrey-epstein-ghost/ https://fortune.com/2025/10/08/deutsche-bank-and-jeffrey-eps... - https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/likes-have-cash-inside-deutsche-banks-slow-split-epstein-2026-02-11/ https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat...
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- WhyNotHugo 2mo agoAn interesting move. Something that drives me crazy when interacting with China, is that I can only use American payment methods to make a payment from Europe to China. I pay a fee and the merchant pays a fee both to the US. It just sounds broken. I hope this is a step in eventually resolving this.
- vachina 2mo agoYou did not make an effort to switch and resorted to the easiest payment method. Unionpay for example, allows clearing directly in Chinese Yuan and most Chinese native merchants accept them.
- hk1337 2mo agoI would imagine a big reason for not making the effort was convenience. If they make Unionpay more convenient to use then people will likely be more likely to switch.
- WhyNotHugo 2mo agoNo bank in my country offers Unionpay. Of course, I could get a Chinese Unionpay card/account. Now each time I want to make a payment, I need to move money there, and can I even do that easily from a European bank account?
- hk1337 2mo agoI'm curious what other banks have this ability? Is this the first foreign yuan clearing bank in Europe or in the World?
- kasey_junk 2mo agoSingaporean banks have been able to do this for a year or two as well. JP Morgan clears directly as well.
- penguin_booze 2mo agoCozying up to China warrants caution. But moving away from USD is an absolute imperative. It's good to have options, you know.
- insane_dreamer 2mo agoworth noting that one main reason why this didn't happen sooner is because China didn't want it to -- while the RMB as a reserve / trading currency strengthens its status and weakens the US', it also makes it harder for China to control the exchange rate, which in the past it considered to be a strategic imperative.
- Kuyawa 2mo agoThe thing I hate the most about current world affairs is the american money printing machine. It is spreading their own internal inflation through out the whole world and we have to suck it hard just to keep their political dominance. Waiting for the dollar to collapse in the next 100 years and see what it brings to the political arena whether it's for better or worse. I am not afraid of the devil showing off its ugly face, whoever the new devil may be.
- MichaelZuo 2mo agoJudging based on where nations put their diplomatic money, pretty much every major nation in the world (except maybe Japan) has a negative outlook for the USA. Even the UK is spending a lot to upgrade their embassy in Beijing.
- photios 2mo agoB...b...b...but who's going to take care of AML procedures and FATF regulations. We'll get drowned in money laundering! :D
- yieldcrv 2mo agoGlad to see more forms of liquidity for offshore yuan I don’t really see the sinophobia as relevant at this point in history, or the US dollar pride as beneficial to the world aside from its unparalleled and impressive liquidity. Everything should be liquid and thats the project for the world in the finance sector, adding rails for major currencies is foundational infrastructure. Reserve currencies and soft power should be antiquated concepts. Nations will have to learn harmony a different way.
- nxobject 2mo agoSomehow, “euroyuan” doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.