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Framework Laptop 13 Pro

• altern8 6mo ago
  Looks awesome, but any developer laptop should have an inverted-T layout for arrows. Those might look cool, but they're a huge pain to use.
• commandersaki 6mo ago
  Blah why do they insist on those full height arrow keys.
  • ciupicri 6mo ago
    Full?! I'm seeing half up/down keys.
• mikkelam 6mo ago
  I've been super happy with my Framework desktop. And since getting that I've been craving replacing my MacBook... This looks super attractive
• andrewmcwatters 6mo ago
  [dead]
• cassianoleal 6mo ago
  The whole page advertises how well this runs Linux, but then… > The side-firing speakers are tuned with Dolby Atmos® to deliver clear, balanced audio on Windows
  • moffkalast 6mo ago
    Well you know how it is on linux, one wrong move and pulseaudio needs restarting lol.
    • rjh29 6mo ago
      At least pulseaudio is pretty much dead now and we have pipewire.
      • abdusco 6mo ago
        https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
        • rjh29 6mo ago
          Yeah pretty funny when apps are using alsa, pulseaudio and pipewire all on the same system!
        • yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
          That is a problem that Linux has, but this is actually one time that it really isn't. Pipewire is flat-out better than pulse, while including sufficient compatibility that it really does just supersede the thing.
    • nine_k 6mo ago
      Who does still run pulseaudio when pipewire exists?
      • jampekka 6mo ago
        Edit: This is incorrect, as pointed out below. Pulseaudio still does the device juggling etc on most systems even when there's a pipewire backend.
        • sph 6mo ago
          Wrong. Pipewire is pulseaudio-compatible, and the device juggling is done by wireplumber
        • yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
          Are you sure? On every device I could quickly reach (Gentoo, NixOS, Pop OS, all with vanilla/default pipewire configs), `ps aux |grep -i pulse` only turns up pipewire-pulse.
  • Kirby64 6mo ago
    Don't forget literally all the battery values are specified as Windows 11.
    • yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
      Not literally all; they say > 7 days > Standby without charging > Wi-Fi connected on Ubuntu (I'm unimpressed with listing all the "active" battery life listings with Windows, mind; I just want us to be precise in our criticisms.)
      • olejorgenb 6mo ago
        I don't want "standby", I want suspend where the only power usage is keeping the ram alive...
    • IshKebab 6mo ago
      Can you really blame them for that?
      • yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
        Yes. Easily. If you proclaim up front that a device is "Linux first", it seems reasonable to suggest that maybe you should tell us about its performance on Linux.
        • IshKebab 6mo ago
          Yeah I mean I don't think they want to say because the numbers are going to be bad, and it's probably not within their power to fix it. They should probably give the Linux numbers after the Windows ones at least tbf, even if they are bad.
          • snarkconjecture 6mo ago
            I am much more likely to fault them for omitting important information specifically to hide a weak point of the product rather than out of laziness.
  • aljgz 6mo ago
    If you are an avid Linux user, you should know that this kind of Criticism is not on point. Battery life? Should they share all possible config combinations? Should they share the most power-saving setting (and then be blamed for sharing numbers that almost no one gets to reproduce?) As a Linux user on an AMD FW my battery life is good enough (7ish hours of work), and I never felt I need to tune it further from the OOB Fedora Kinoite.
    • ua709 6mo ago
      They should share the battery life numbers of default shipping configuration while running Linux with whatever settings they want. Then publish the configuration and settings. Same as every other manufacturer. i.e. https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/#footnote-5 https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/#footnote-5
  • rozab 6mo ago
    In my experience, Linux support on Framework is worse than on a typical ThinkPad, and they don't have much interest in contributing to the ecosystem like System76 does. They still make good products, I'm just very unimpressed with the Linux marketing.
    • dangus 6mo ago
      For me it’s very much “it just works” with pretty much every distro I try. I had to configure zero hardware. How much better am I supposed to expect it to be? They financially sponsor Linux/OSS projects and give them laptops to test on. What more do you want them to do? They don’t have a zillion employees like Lenovo who is the #1 volume computer company in the world. Finally, IMO, System76 is a much worse example because they aren’t focusing on the things Linux needs to grow. Linux doesn’t need contributions like their their silly Ubuntu reskin distro to be popular on the desktop. Instead, Linux needs a company making compatible hardware that is good, attractive hardware that will stop people from buying a MacBook instead. The System76 lineup is a complete mess of white label Clevo systems. They have no business offering 8 different laptop models. That just tells potential customers “wow, buying a Linux laptop is a lot more complicated than buying a Mac!”
  • tredre3 6mo ago
    I agree with you, it would have been nice if their speakers had dedicated hardware to drive them instead of the magical dolby software. All laptop speakers sound like shit on Linux. I'm sure people will reply with their anecdotal evidence, or pretend that it's not that bad once you have a good EQ. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I've spent hours trying to get multiple laptop speakers at least half as good as they sound on Windows. No success. And I'm talking thinkpads, dell xps, the usual linux go-tos, not some exotic stuff.
    • muyuu 6mo ago
      Maybe you have very niche needs, but for most of us speakers on laptops are never great and they're not really there for that. Reminds me of people shopping for high performance scooters. I mean, you're riding a scooter... it's not meant for that.
  • TiredOfLife 5mo ago
    You can record the applied effect and then use it in linux
• whalesalad 6mo ago
  Pre-ordered a Ultra X7 358H with 32GB as an upgrade from an M2 Air. I hope that I do not regret this.
• rglover 6mo ago
  Has anyone made the jump from a Mac to Framework as a daily driver? This is the first model to get my attention as a possible candidate for a full switch to Linux.
  • varun_ch 6mo ago
    I have a MacBook Air M2. I bought a framework 13 last year right before the RAM shortage. I really wanted to love it but ended up returning it due to really bad battery life performance (NixOS). Still on the MacBook today, but heavily considering the new framework
    • Cider9986 6mo ago
      I'm on the same Mac as you. Have you tried Asahi Linux? I am running Asahi Remix with Gnome and couldn't be happier.
  • linguae 6mo ago
    I use a MacBook Pro at work and a Framework 13 for personal use. The biggest downside to my Framework 13 is the low battery life; I’ve been getting only about 5 hours on Windows 11. Other than that, I like my Framework 13. I am very excited about the Framework 13 Pro and it’s dramatically improved battery life. It’s unfortunate regarding RAM prices, though; I only paid $96 for 32GB of DDR5 RAM back in December 2023 when I ordered my Framework 13 (I bought my RAM on Newegg). It’s much more expensive today. I’d like to upgrade, but I can’t afford it at today’s RAM prices. With that said, because the RAM is still modular in the Framework 13 Pro, I could settle for a lower configuration and wait until a later date to upgrade the RAM.
    • unethical_ban 6mo ago
      You could do what I'm considering doing, which is sell my old Framework at market price. The 64GB of RAM that I bought for $200 at the same time you did is now worth almost $800 on Amazon new.
    • unethical_ban 6mo ago
• sharms 6mo ago
  This is great - a Macbook Pro for Linux users, made of CNC milled aluminum, haptic trackpad, and 20+ hours of 4k video playback under Linux
  • rick_dalton 6mo ago
    The 20h figure is specifically for streaming 4k Netflix in the app on Windows. Netflix doesn’t even support 4K streaming on Linux as far as I know.
    • sharms 6mo ago
      Good call out - but seeing 2.5W consumption at idle from people with it already on Linux so these numbers will hold (like Dell XPS 14)
• pojntfx 6mo ago
  I'm really looking forward to having this as the go-to laptop to recommend to devs again. The original Framework chassis was really showing it's age next to e.g. a MacBook Pro or the new XPS 14. Having mainline Linux on a system with 24h+ battery life in a 13" case is pretty damn impressive.
  • jampekka 6mo ago
    > Having mainline Linux on a system with 24h+ battery life in a 13" case is pretty damn impressive. Does it have such battery life on Linux? The benchmarks, apart from suspend battery life, are for Windows.
    • deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    • pojntfx 6mo ago
      Don't see why it wouldn't - as long as pstate etc. works it should be the same. I'd argue it's probably better given that modern desktops use far less resources in the background compared to Windows I bet they don't publish Linux numbers because it depends on which desktop you use etc.
      • jampekka 6mo ago
        > I bet they don't publish Linux numbers because it depends on which desktop you use etc. They ship with Ubuntu on it, which would be quite natural choice for such benchmark. Also they do do the standby test on Ubuntu for some reason. Can't help but suspect there's a reason why Linux numbers are not given. :(
        • cogman10 6mo ago
          There have been fairly recent changes to the linux kernel to better support panther lake in terms of power performance. I'd suspect a major reason for holding back is because ubuntu 26.04 has not been released yet and it is using kernel 7.0 which includes these power improvements. 24.04 does not. By the time these laptops start shipping, 26.04 should be released and testing should be easy. I suspect no major differences from it vs windows. 7.1 includes even more performance improvements for panther lake. [1] [1] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Enabled-Intel-FRED https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-7.1-Enabled-Intel-FRED
• iamcalledrob 6mo ago
  I really wish this had a 4K display option. As someone who dislikes fractional scaling. I'm clinging on to my older Thinkpad X1 because the 4K display is so good.
  • zackify 6mo ago
    on omarchy ill switch with super + / and use 1x, 1.6x and 2x when needed. 1.6x works surprisingly well now, that wasnt the case a couple years ago
  • dismalaf 6mo ago
    Forget fractional scaling, just keep scale at 100% and increase font and icon sizes.
    • Groxx 6mo ago
      Which is something like 2/3rds successful in my experience (I use this daily), and requires tons of fiddling to get things looking even mostly reasonable (lots of misalignments and funky padding otherwise). And lots of applications don't respect it and you're stuck with too-small controls when it fails. Which makes it a noticeably-worse success rate than fractional scaling, afaict. I still use it because the end result on some of my most-used applications is nicer, and it seems to be slightly-noticeably better performing (on a high framerate screen). So it's good enough for my tastes. But it really isn't anything I'd call "successful".
  • SomeoneOnTheWeb 6mo ago
    Doesn't it work perfectly with a 2880px-wide display with 2x scaling?
    • iamcalledrob 6mo ago
      It just, just not enough real estate!
  • tuetuopay 6mo ago
    As a heavy fractional scaling user, as long as the display has enough DPI, it's a non-issue. At my last job I was happily running 1.35 scaling, and I run my TV at 1.5 scaling. Make sure you're using a sane compositor, which excludes DWM; most Wayland compositors should run just fine.
• kingsleyopara 6mo ago
  I really want to love this thing but at least in the UK, matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer. Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra X7 358H, 16GB, 1TB, default ports, no adapter) Framework 13 Pro: £2264 (Ultra X7 358H, 32GB, 1TB, default ports, no adapter) MacBook Pro 14: £1699 (M5, 16GB, 1TB, no adapter) MacBook Pro 14: £2099 (M5, 32GB, 1TB, no adapter) MacBook Pro 14: £2199 (M5 Pro, 24GB, 1TB, no adapter) - added as I think it’s an even better deal
  • levkk 6mo ago
    On top of it, intel chips are not competitive with apple silicon. Why buy a laptop that's 30% slower and uses more energy for the same price?
    • wao0uuno 6mo ago
      To be able to run any OS you want.
      • pb7 6mo ago
        Can it run macOS?
        • cogman10 6mo ago
          For now, yes. But probably not for the next macos release.
        • clifflocked 6mo ago
          See https://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM https://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM
    • encom 6mo ago
      To avoid having to use Mac OS, and suffering the whims of Apple.
    • 6mo ago
• NewJazz 6mo ago
  LPCAMM2 looks interesting. How much is that RAM though :'(
  • yonatan8070 6mo ago
    I went on the configurator page briefly, like 400$ for 32GB IIRC. They don't ship to where I am so I didn't stay long
• sosodev 6mo ago
  TIL LPCAMM2 exists. What an awesome solution to allow memory replacements while meeting all of the other requirements for laptops.
  • kube-system 6mo ago
    It doesn't meet all of them. AMD considered it for Strix Halo but said it didn't meet their latency requirements.
    • wmf 6mo ago
      LPCAMM2 latency should be the same as soldered. The problem is that Strix Halo wants a L-shaped memory layout and LPCAMMs are straight.
  • Spunkie 6mo ago
    Well to be fair they only kind of quasi-exist for consumers right now. As far as I can tell Crucial was providing the only consumer accessible lpcamm2 modules on the market right now. Crucial is certainly the only option that comes up looking on amazon or newegg right now. Lenovo has some OEM modules but they are obviously marketed as replacement parts to just their laptops, not sure how the warranty and support for them would be outside a lenovo product. But the Crucial brand was unceremoniously sacrificed by Micron to the AI gods at the beginning of this year. So will these lpcamm2 modules even be available once current stock runs out? The 64gb module is already sitting at $1000 on newegg. Samsung is making lpcamm2 modules but no telling when those will actually hit the market and be accessible.
• IshKebab 6mo ago
  64GB of RAM is £850? Insane timeline.
  • gamerslexus 6mo ago
    Let's all thank the AI industry for this.
• ciaranmca 6mo ago
  Don’t think I have ever came across a queue to buy a laptop before but congrats to the framework team.
• chis 6mo ago
  It's so cool that every individual upgrade they did here can be hot-swapped back to the older designs. That's a huge extra lift that they didn't have to do. To be specific: There's a new lower chassis, and a new chassis top with haptic touchpad. On my older framework I could buy just the chassis top to get the new touchpad. Crazy that they could make that work. I also just really admire the CEO for doing these semi-scripted public presentations nerding out over the new devices and shouting out specific team members who did the designs. Really hope the company is doing well. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxgCEpkiKM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxgCEpkiKM
  • tuckerman 6mo ago
    My heart sank when they said 13 pro and then to see that so much is backwards compatible was amazing. It's quite refreshing to see a company live up to their mission so well.
    • cogman10 6mo ago
      Yeah, really impressive to see that you can take a 13 and turn it into a 13 pro with just a few new parts. I've just ordered my own 13 pro. I've been waiting for a laptop and this ticks all the boxes. I'd previously ordered a new dell xps laptop and ultimately returned it because the keyboard was busted. I would have kept it if I could have swapped the keyboard for a new one. The use of LPCAMM is also really nice. I've hoped to see this standard start taking flight and I'm happy to grab a product with it included.
    • Trollmann 6mo ago
      Same, though the battery upgrade alone will be around $260 because of the new bottom cover, at that might just throw in the speaker upgrade as well for $19. Not sure if I even want a haptic touchpad at all.
      • ghqst 6mo ago
        Haptic trackpads are the secret sauce that make MacBooks so pleasant to use. You probably want one.
• dehugger 6mo ago
  A laptop without a unified memory model is categorically incapable of being the "ultimate developer laptop". Framework already have Strix Halo machines, I don't know why they felt the need to hamstring this thing with Intel.
  • femiagbabiaka 6mo ago
    Why?
    • bestouff 6mo ago
      Running local AI requires unified memory.
      • luyu_wu 6mo ago
        The iGP can access shared memory the same as with any modern system. I'm confused where you got this idea from.
        • dehugger 6mo ago
          There is a huge difference between on-die and off-die memory. Where that shared memory is located matters immensely.
          • Rohansi 6mo ago
            Assuming you're referring to Apple Silicon's memory bandwidth, that is not necessarily because the memory is on-die. The bandwidth comes from having more channels to access memory. This gives the SoC a wider bus to increase throughput vs. your typical x86 system with two channels. For whatever reasons Intel/AMD decided that two channels is all the typical consumer chips can support now so it's on them.
            • dehugger 6mo ago
              Ah I see, thanks for breaking it down.
• jasonjmcghee 6mo ago
  Out of sheer curiosity, why do apple devices have astronomically longer battery life when sleeping? (How is the sleep so efficient?) I was busy with work and didn't touch my personal laptop for a few weeks and it still had well over half the battery.
  • iknowstuff 6mo ago
    They write their own software. And firmware. Other OEMs can just beg their tier 1/2 suppliers to get their shit together and put components to sleep properly by making windows, drivers, and firmware work well together. Also things like lpddr5x, ssd controller built into the SoC with cache in unified ram (instead of running a whole ass separate computer with its own ram on an m2 stick) etc
    • cogman10 6mo ago
      This is it. Sleep is such a finicky thing which requires all parts of the system to do it right. My desktop lost the ability to sleep because I guess the nvidia drivers have decided that you are wrong to want to put things to sleep.
    • jeffbee 6mo ago
      Great point about the storage. That is another place where the repairability meme is really not helping. Moving the storage controller up into the host SoC is a good idea and the PC world should adopt it. Apple's storage controller is not even a PCIe peripheral internally, so it's saving power and latency cutting out that interface, even when it's active.
      • Plasmoid2000ad 6mo ago
        I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around how this could work for PCs today. I'm guessing Intel/AMD could integrate a single SSD controller that OEMs could use for a specially socketed SSD? I'm not familiar enough with SSD controllers - but what limits would this introduce. I'm thinking they can't be totally generic - with any NAND chips, any layout, 1-4 chips and TLC or QLC NAND - any capacity etc. It strikes me it would be limiting - you would become restricted to a a small subset of SSDs, maybe not forwards compatible with newer NAND chips etc. I'd think only the minority of PC Laptops would make sense to have this - ones with soldered SSDs - and I don't know many of these. So Intel/AMD would need a big push to integrate any controller. Maybe Windows ARM laptops, if the controller makes a big enough difference, will do this. I'm curious now if any Snapdragon devices are doing this already.
• cyberax 6mo ago
  I was hoping for a monitor update for the 16" laptop. But: > 16" 16:1- Anti-glare matte display (2560x1600), 500 nits, no HDR Sorry. That's just not going to cut it. These are 5-year-old specs.
• koalaman 6mo ago
  I'm struggling to understand if this supports usb-c based thunderbolt
  • daemonologist 6mo ago
    All four ports support Thunderbolt 4 - if you scroll down to "Interfaces" on the product specs page there's a graphic showing everything that's supported.
    • koalaman 6mo ago
      nice! Thanks! I had no idea USB4 and Thunderbolt were equivalent.
      • ciupicri 6mo ago
        They aren't equivalent. The "shape" of the port is the same, it's (USB) Type-C. Though as far as I know most of the time you can use USB4 peripherals with TB4 ports.
    • jonf3n 5mo ago
      They do a terrible job with the documentation... making TB4 (superior) sound like it is USB-C (3.2 or something?). Only the Intel versions seem to support Thunderbolt, the AMD not which I think is the main issue. Anyway, the next Frameworks need to adopt Thunderbolt 5 to handle modern HDMI 2.1 and 2.2, eGPU, Oculink, etc.
• unethical_ban 6mo ago
  This is awesome. I like my 2 year old framework and this new RAM looks really interesting, I need to learn more. However, the 358H processor + 64GB RAM + 1TB NVMe is $2700. Wow. Even if I sold my current AMD 7840U with 64GB of RAM it would still be quite an investment. The biggest question I have, which is probably easily searchable: How well will this run local LLMs? Seems the RAM is fast enough.
  • yencabulator 5mo ago
    The Intel chipset and LPCAMM2 are limited to 128 bit RAM bus so about half the speed of a Strix Halo (e.g. https://frame.work/desktop https://frame.work/desktop).
• skywal_l 6mo ago
  75% keyboard?
  • iknowstuff 6mo ago
    No numpad
• lawn 6mo ago
  Please say that the new keyboard has QMK support? It's the one thing I'm jealous of the Laptop 16 together with their key module that should let you design arbitrary layouts.
• christophilus 6mo ago
  Well, this looks excellent.
• nrp 6mo ago
  I’m happy to answer questions folks have around the product (later today).
  • varispeed 6mo ago
    Any blue-sky thinking like 256GB RAM support? I have a feeling that laptops don't keep up with the today's dev workflows.
    • Schiendelman 6mo ago
      The ram is an Intel chipset limitation, I don't know that they can do anything about it. Even AMD only goes up to 128GB now.
  • pimterry 6mo ago
    All the battery life stats use Windows for testing. How does the equivalent Linux performance compare?
    • zdragnar 6mo ago
      Always depends on your configuration but I've not had issues with arch or fedora getting comparable battery life to Windows in a long time.
    • nrp 6mo ago
      We're going to publish more Linux benchmarks as well. We have s0ix noted (7 days), and we're trying to make some more repeatable productivity-oriented workflows for Linux to use. We expect that Phoronix will publish some pretty thorough power efficiency tests too. We'll certainly be providing them with review hardware.
      • _-_-__-_-_- 6mo ago
        Thank you Nirav for everything you are doing for right-to-repair and better hardware. And, thank you for directly engaging with the community. I can't wait to update my 12th gen i5 FW 13 with a new chassis!
• sandreas 6mo ago
  Here is a more explanatory video what's new and how it looks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnOpIQJnYWU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnOpIQJnYWU
• LorenDB 6mo ago
  I'm happy to see they finally added a touchscreen. This will probably be my next laptop.
• iririririr 6mo ago
  "pro" in the name, without ECC ram is a travesty
  • voxadam 6mo ago
    Does the LPCAMM2 standard allow for a full-blown ECC interface, as opposed being limited to the on-die ECC that's part of the DDR5 spec?
    • snvzz 5mo ago
      Apparently the interface itself does support ECC, but there is no end user product implementing it. As I require ECC, it seems I won't be upgrading anytime soon.
  • multimoon 6mo ago
    I hope you’re being sarcastic because if not you’re delisional to expect ECC ram in a laptop. You’re going to pile up software updates that you should absolutely reboot for long before a comic ray causes a meaningful bit flip. ECC is only worthwhile in servers and is a waste of money otherwise, especially since “pro” for laptop = prosumer device. If you don’t reboot your laptop in years where ECC matters I’m not sure how to help you.
    • deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
• Sephr 6mo ago
  My main gripes: - There's zero mention of the display technology, just "2.8K Touchscreen Display" - The optional HDMI ("3rd Gen") adapter is only 4K 60hz, when the host chip has integrated Thunderbolt 4 which can output 4K 240Hz
  • 12_throw_away 6mo ago
    In the announcement video, he says the display is "LTPS LCD" (I don't actually know if that's good or not)
    • rick_dalton 6mo ago
      They would have definitely advertised if it was something special like mini-LED but it seems to be a pretty standard display.
      • Sephr 6mo ago
        Judging by the graphics used in the launch event, it may actually be miniLED. Perhaps they aren't mentioning this so people don't compare their max 700 nits full screen brightness to other vendors' >1000 nits full screen brightness.
  • jonf3n 5mo ago
    Yes, it is HDMI version 2.0b -- they seem to try and hide that. Really need TB5 and HDMI 2.1 at least!
    • jack_arleth 5mo ago
      HDMI 2.1 is basically blocked by the HDMI forum: "... This isn’t some unsolved mystery buried deep in kernel code. The issue sits with the HDMI Forum, which controls the HDMI 2.1 specification. To implement it fully, you need to agree to licensing terms that clash hard with open-source licenses like GPL. ..." Source: https://www.makeuseof.com/hdmi-forum-is-holding-back-linux-and-its-getting-worse/ https://www.makeuseof.com/hdmi-forum-is-holding-back-linux-a... So I can perfectly imagine a small hardware vendor like Framework being unable to get support for this. Perhaps DP is a better solution for your use-case?
• Rooster61 6mo ago
  Is there a side by side comparison for their products anywhere? I'd like to compare this to the current 16 specs. And are they planning a "Pro" version of the 16? I don't have plans to buy a laptop in the near future, but its nice to have this as an option. I like the idea of a bespoke Linux machine I could use.
• subscribed 6mo ago
  sigh. I wish I knew. I've got Framework 13 (Ryzen AI 300 series) and it's battery life is absolutely awful. Won't even survive a weekend in sleep. My old, dying Dell was better.
  • unethical_ban 6mo ago
    This is the next Framework I will buy, unless AMD's AI 400 series is better. I await a Linux-based battery test for both active work and overnight suspend consumption. I don't think suspend battery drain is vendor-specific though; AMD and Intel both shat the bed compared to Apple due to hardware decision-making. edit: I missed this. >7 days Standby without charging, Wi-Fi connected on Ubuntu
• ndom91 6mo ago
  Anyone know much about the new top of the line Intel vs AMD CPU options? Which is more power efficient? Powerful?
  • wmf 6mo ago
    Intel Core Ultra 3xx is mostly better than AMD Ryzen 3xx/4xx. This year you're better off with Intel.
  • dismalaf 6mo ago
    AMD Ryzen AI 400 is built on TSMC 4nm and Panther Lake is on Intel's 18A so Intel is literally a generation ahead for this product cycle and wins hands down...
    • nottorp 5mo ago
      But is the GPU good for anything? I'm used to Intel being completely crap and AMD actually being able to run games if you can live without 8k and 400 fps. Also how's Linux support for either?
      • dismalaf 5mo ago
        Intel GPUs have never been that bad... In the past they were simply small because the expectation was they'd be paired with a dGPU. The Core series has GPUs on par with or even slightly bigger than most of the Ryzen AI series (look up benchmarks and articles).
        • nottorp 5mo ago
          > they were simply small But that's bad in my book. I'm happy with 720p on low detail once in a while if it's a laptop. What I remember is Intel GPUS being unable to do even that. If they caught up with AMD iGPUs, that's great. I don't do desktop replacement laptops, I prefer the ones I can hold in one hand, the dGPU is in my desktop.
          • 5mo ago
• rubiquity 6mo ago
  Are the mainboards and upgrade kits available for purchase now or just the whole laptop? edit: I think I found it: https://frame.work/products/laptop13pro-mainboard-intel-ultra-3 https://frame.work/products/laptop13pro-mainboard-intel-ultr...
• z3ugma 6mo ago
  It doesn't come with any RAM? You have to add $140 for 8GB or "bring your own"...so the list price does not represent a working computer?
  • yencabulator 5mo ago
    Select "Pre-built" instead of "DIY Edition" if you want everything installed. The DIY edition has been very popular historically and lets you bargain hunt for storage & RAM in the current stupid pricing situation.
• brson 6mo ago
  I'll take this opportunity to report on my Framework Laptop 13 experience. I've had it for over a year. The case is warped in multiple places. One USB C module doesn't accept a power charge reliably. It can overheat and shutdown. If the case flexes a little the trackpad stops responding - it needs to be on a flat surface. Power brick died. On the plus side, my partner had one and when she threw it away she gave me her parts and I was able to swap some out. That was cool.
  • mplanchard 6mo ago
    To compare anecdotes, I’ve had mine for 3 years, and it’s still working great. Haven’t had any issues with it.
    • vaylian 5mo ago
      4 years here. Still running fine.
    • DreadY2K 5mo ago
      Similar story here. Mine is 3 years old, and the battery is about 80% of its original capacity and the touchpad occasionally drops clicks, but otherwise it's still working great! Also the charging cable frayed, but I have plenty of those cables around.
      • smj-edison 5mo ago
        I think I've had mine for three years now, and it's been great! I had the same issue with the touchpad button going bad, but I just replaced it and it's been great since.
  • Night_Thastus 6mo ago
    That's rough. Did you contact their support about it? I measure a lot of companies by how they handle recovering from stuff like this.
    • dpatterbee 6mo ago
• dangus 6mo ago
  I was sure they’d deliver Panther Lake but didn’t think it would have LPCAMM. I thought they’d either solder the memory or skip out on delivering the good integrated graphics from the X SKUs. I’m stunned in a good way. This is a MacBook Pro killer for the nerdier end of Apple’s market. The fact that you mostly can pick and choose your upgrades to Pro is really cool, too. The mid-tier X7 board sold alone seems like a great value and it would be a pretty solid uplift to the old system.
• asadm 6mo ago
  I wish it was easy to port Asahi Linux to macbook neo. That would be insane!
• ua709 6mo ago
  The expansion card system seems like something I would actually really like, especially as a hardware engineer. But the more I thought about it I couldn't really think of any compelling expansion cards that were worth the effort. So I figured I would look at what was in their store to see what other people thought up, and there isn't really any 3rd party store that I could find. I did find this list: https://community.frame.work/t/list-of-company-or-individually-driven-projects/18559 https://community.frame.work/t/list-of-company-or-individual... According to it there are more 3rd party main boards than expansion cards. I kinda get it, but wow. End of an era I guess.
• benoau 6mo ago
  I might be in love...
• bodge5000 6mo ago
  Just wish they'd give the FW16 the same treatment, at least in terms of the build. You shouldn't choose a laptop based on looks but thats hitting exactly what I want, minus the 16" screen
• aktuel 6mo ago
  The unevenly sized arrow keys still prevent me from buying any of it.
  • genpfault 6mo ago
    Hear, hear!
  • stvsu 6mo ago
    I am more hung up on not having ctrl/alt/super on the right side
• pb7 6mo ago
  Why are they advertising only Linux OSes but the battery life numbers are for Windows 11? Why not show the Linux numbers?
• varispeed 6mo ago
  > up to 64GB of LPCAMM2 LPDDR5X That's a non-starter. Why not 128GB or push boundary for 256GB?
  • progval 6mo ago
    Because no one makes larger LPCAMM2 modules. But Framework's CEO says he expects higher density modules in the future: https://youtu.be/GnOpIQJnYWU?si=UBMfW7SsiNjwJ1fo&t=292 https://youtu.be/GnOpIQJnYWU?si=UBMfW7SsiNjwJ1fo&t=292
  • codeflo 6mo ago
    Last I checked, one kidney might not even suffice to pay for 256GB anymore.
  • jpeeler 6mo ago
    Maybe because 64 GB is $849.
  • voxadam 6mo ago
    > Why not 128GB or push boundary for 256GB? As I understand it, 64 GB modules are largest LPCAMM2 modules yet released with 96 GB being announced only a couple months ago. 128 GB might be possible on the Ultra 5 325 once either sufficiently large LPCAMM2 modules have been release or if the motherboard was redesigned to support dual LPCAMM2 modules, the Ultra X7 358H and Ultra X9 388H only support 96 GB. Support for 256 GB would likely require a desktop processor, or a redesign from Intel to support a quarter terabyte of memory on a mobile processor. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245720/intel-core-ultra-5-processor-325-12m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz/specifications.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245720/... https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245527/intel-core-ultra-x7-processor-358h-18m-cache-up-to-4-80-ghz/specifications.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245527/... https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245526/intel-core-ultra-x9-processor-388h-18m-cache-up-to-5-10-ghz/specifications.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245526/...
• giancarlostoro 6mo ago
  I wonder if they'll ever make a "Toughbook" type of laptop. Those things are very interesting, since you can shove drives in and out of them and it matches the spirit of what this is.
• iamdamian 6mo ago
  For me, this was an immediate buy. Everything about this is what I've been looking for in a Linux laptop. (Also, how refreshing is it to not have to think hard about how much RAM you might need over the next few years because you know you can always upgrade it later?)
  • nhumrich 6mo ago
    Or, another way to think about this: "buy more ram when it becomes more affordable"
• Retr0id 6mo ago
  Depending on how good that haptic trackpad is, this could be a real Macbook Pro competitor. 32GB of RAM on my M1 Pro is starting to feel a bit cramped.
• haspok 6mo ago
  No dedicated Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/Ins/Del? Meh. No T-shape cursor keys?!? Lame. No love. No want. Go home. Thinkpad FTW. Sorry.
  • deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  • manuhabitela 6mo ago
    I have to agree the keyboard layout is a noticeable bummer. The only actually impactful one I can find on this laptop on my side for now. So, props to the team still!
• fwipsy 6mo ago
  Framework is cool, but Lenovo and Dell have been selling repairable enterprise laptops with Linux support for years. Some Precision/XPS laptops even have replaceable graphics cards.* It feels like they don't get nearly as much attention. * Some will even work with graphics cards from newer laptops using the same chassis; for example, the Precision 7530 (8th gen Intel + Pascal GPUs) can be upgraded with Precision 7540 (Turing) GPUs. This isn't officially supported, though, and may not apply to later models.
• ChrisArchitect 6mo ago
  Blog post: https://frame.work/blog/introducing-framework-laptop-13-pro https://frame.work/blog/introducing-framework-laptop-13-pro
• niteshpant 6mo ago
  These are cool laptops. But, after getting a decent config (32gb ram, 1tb ssd, 7 series chip), the price is ~$2300. At that point, a MacBook Pro seems like a better choice. I'd not want to develop on anything less than that config. The selling point seems to be the Linux + Framework brand + highly customizable machine you can actually own I've always wondered if these laptops can scale beyond the enthusiast group. If so, how?
  • vizzier 6mo ago
    14" macbook pro with those specs is ~2100. 200 dollar delta for repair-ability seems acceptable to me.
    • stavros 6mo ago
      I'd pay $200 to run Linux. The repairability is a bonus.
      • CarVac 6mo ago
        It's $200 cheaper than that for that configuration with Linux instead, only $2100.
        • stavros 6mo ago
          Oooh, no contest then. I'm definitely getting one to replace my previous Framework.
  • vvpan 6mo ago
    But you can upgrade it later by swapping parts and not buying a new machine, so it should be cheaper in the long run.
  • m463 6mo ago
    This is a tough one because a macbook pro hooks you into the apple ecosystem and makes apple money. Let alone the macbook neo. This is like the really cheap televisions that harvest your data for profit. How can you compete/compare against vizio if it makes more on your data than on the television?
• foresterre 6mo ago
  Finally! Glad they will now offer something which doesn't have a bending frame. ... but I wish they would make something with a bit more screen estate without being heavy and bulky. Their 16" is just too big. I really like the Dell XPS 14 and MBP 14", which I think is the right trade-off between screen size and portability.
• kelnos 6mo ago
  As soon as I saw the email announcement for the 13 Pro, my face fell. My assumption was that this was a brand new, incompatible chassis, and that my current 13 would be obsolete, and if I want to go further, I'd have to buy a whole new chassis in one go. Essentially a full laptop replacement, completely betraying the entire point. And then I click through and see the compatibility table and my jaw drops. Amazing! Yes, it's a new chassis, but all the parts that matter will fit into my old chassis. And if I want to upgrade the chassis, I can even do that piece by piece as well, not all at once. I'm also glad to see another Intel mainboard, and one with the new, actually-powerful iGPUs. A part of me has considered over time defecting to AMD, but I'm still just more comfortable with Intel, for some reason that probably isn't rational. My one concern is that their CPU options top out at 4 performance cores; the i7-1370P I have right now has 6. But I know these days it's hard to reason about real-world performance just by core count, especially with the different flavors of cores we have now. Another worry: the thermals of the original 13 chassis have never been great, and I'm concerned that the new mainboard will throttle a bunch under load when installed in the old chassis. At any rate, I may not upgrade this year, given RAM prices. I have 64GB of DDR4 in my current laptop, and replacing that with the same amount of LPCAMM2 LPDDR5X is probably more expensive than the rest of the laptop itself. But maybe over the next few years I'll ship-of-theseus myself into a new laptop.
  • notenlish 6mo ago
    The thermals hopefully won't be a problem, since the new Intel chips are quite efficient.
    • stavros 6mo ago
      Does anyone know whether the AMD chips are more performant? I like AMD more as a company, especially since I like healthy competition. I'd prefer an AMD chip if it's as efficient and performant as the Intel ones.
      • Tpt 6mo ago
        My bet (I don't think there is any confirmation of it) is that the AMD board is still the one released last year. The main difference I see is that the new Intel board uses LPCAMM2 memory whereas the AMD board relies on usual socketed memory that has higher latency and is more memory hungry.
• babylon5 6mo ago
  Nice upgrades, but no mention of ECC RAM, the single thing that I wanted from an upgrade for a decade? Why do chip makers refuse to take our money? :-P A few years ago we were told only "Pro" parts have ECC: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37828168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37828168
  • vizzier 6mo ago
    to be fair, your money isn't as good as VC money for RAM at the moment
    • babylon5 6mo ago
      Are Nvidia using ecc ram? If not this should mean it is less supply constrained than regular ram.
      • vizzier 6mo ago
        I'm open to being wrong, but so far as I understand it ECC mostly lives at the controller level and shares the same DRAM chips across all forms of server memory (including non-ecc), which is why we see price increases across all sectors including consumer. Those DRAM chips being the bottleneck that would require hard to build new silicon fabs to increase supply.
  • Melatonic 6mo ago
    Do mobile CPU's and northbridges support ECC?
    • babylon5 6mo ago
      Handheld mobile no. Laptops could, but rarely/never do due to policy not technical requirements.
  • morserer 5mo ago
    Confused, doesn't all DDR5 support inline ECC by default? Or are you talking about the ability to enable it in the BIOS/OS?
• alsetmusic 6mo ago
  I continue to admire Framework from afar. If I were to switch from MacOS to Linux, they'd be at the top of my list when shopping.
• MarsIronPI 6mo ago
  Man, I want to get a Framework, but I'm held back by the lack of trackpoint. Yes, I know it's not going to happen officially, but I just can't see myself using a laptop without one. So, until someone figures out some mod or 3rd-party part I'm sticking with Thinkpads.
  • brookritz 6mo ago
    same
  • nhumrich 6mo ago
    Dell Precision used to have track points. Now the only holdout is Thinkpad. I sometimes wonder how much the track point itself keeps that product line successful. That being said, thinkpads are almost as upgradeable as frameworks. The latest t14 received a better score from ifixit than framework for repairability (first ever to get a 10).
    • MarsIronPI 6mo ago
      > The latest t14 received a better score from ifixit than framework for repairability (first ever to get a 10). Hm, I wish they had scores for the X230 and older; I'd like to see how they compare. IMO they're better, if nothing else because you can replace RAM, SSD and battery without unscrewing the entire bottom.
      • nhumrich 6mo ago
        I don't think the difference between half the bottom and entire bottom would make a difference according to ifix it. It's more about: 1. Is it possible 2. Is it documented 3. Do you need proprietary parts 4. Without solder
    • asimovDev 6mo ago
      I wonder if Lenovo has telemetry of some kind that tells them how many people use the trackpad and how often compared to the trackpad / mouse.
• philistine 6mo ago
  Hey let's make a very versatile laptop with tons of options for consumers, and let's not offer the other Standard Canadian French keyboard, let's just have the old one Windows forces on people.
  • cassepipe 6mo ago
    You could get a blank keyboard, and nice transparent stickers.
• outlore 6mo ago
  Can this drive a Studio Display XDR at 120 Hz? I wonder if anyone else is thinking about this and how to figure out compatibility.
• jpeeler 6mo ago
  Wish it supported coreboot. It seems hard to find modern hardware that does.
  • ebb_earl_co 6mo ago
    Some System76 SKUs have Coreboot now, e.g. https://system76.com/laptops/darter-pro https://system76.com/laptops/darter-pro
• darkwater 6mo ago
  When my hard plastic chassis T470 from 2016 dies and cannot be repaired, I will for sure buy a Framework.
• kapilvt 6mo ago
  Assuming the Qualcomm ARM lawsuits are what’s preventing the AArch64 debut…
• charlieboardman 6mo ago
  From what I can ascertain, the new bigger battery is incompatible with the old chassis: https://frame.work/products/pro-battery-74wh https://frame.work/products/pro-battery-74wh "This product can only be used with both the Framework Laptop 13 Pro Bottom Cover and Framework Laptop 13 Pro Input Cover." I applaud that the mainboard and keyboard are backwards compatible, but I don't think the pro is quite as backwards compatible as some are thinking
  • josephsw 6mo ago
    They actually call out this specific incompatibility in the video here (at 2m44s): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxgCEpkiKM&t=2m44s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxgCEpkiKM&t=2m44s Mainly just a trade-off because of because of the bigger battery (but it sounds like they'll sell you the bottom chassis pieces as well).
  • cbsmith 6mo ago
    Yup. Sounds right. Interestingly though, you can use the new input cover with the older frames.
• Jyaif 6mo ago
  Those transparent bezel look incredibly good.
• awongh 6mo ago
  How is ubuntu support for touchscreens these days? How does it compare to an ipad in terms of fidelity / responsiveness, and for native-feeling integration with ubuntu? I am, naturally, a bit skeptical that touchscreen UI would be any good in linux.
  • bigyabai 6mo ago
    > How is ubuntu support for touchscreens these days? GNOME supports multitouch gestures, and the GTK4 toolkit is overall very touch-native. It strikes a nice balance between overpadded and touch-accessible, IMO: https://www.gnome.org/ https://www.gnome.org/ (some of the newer Libadwaita widgets that GNOME is using: https://gnome.pages.gitlab.gnome.org/libadwaita/doc/main/widget-gallery.html https://gnome.pages.gitlab.gnome.org/libadwaita/doc/main/wid... ) > How does it compare to an ipad in terms of fidelity / responsiveness With Wayland, it's borderline identical.
    • awongh 6mo ago
      > GNOME supports I've heard that there's *support* -but is the experience of having a touchscreen on an ubuntu device actually usable and good? For example some random GUI app you're likely to use on ubuntu is the experience not broken? I guess Chrome is the first thing that comes to mind.
      • bigyabai 6mo ago
        My only issue with Chrome on touchscreen was the lack of 1:1 scroll/zoom gestures. As a Firefox user it was something that I got used to, but I just updated Chromium and apparently that's been fixed now too. Besides that, it all works about as well as you'd expect it to. You can drag the window around by the tab bar and tap-and-hold to pull up a context menu.
    • akdev1l 6mo ago
      >With Wayland, it's borderline identical. Come on lol. I have a couple steam decks and both are really clunky. Most applications are not built using GTK4 nor Qt6 for that matter. On my steam deck the keyboard never pops up by itself so I have to use a key combination and it feels like I am moving a ghost mouse around the place (rather than proper touch screen support) I ran gnome on the deck for a while but anyway the on-screen keyboard provided by the gnome sucked so bad that I gave up (sucked as in, it groups all the keys around the center of the screen tightly together and very small) I also have an M1 iPad Pro. No comparison because those issues simply don’t exist on iOS.
• erichocean 6mo ago
  I wish they offered a Dvorak keyboard. Of all laptops, this is the most obvious one to do it.
  • 0xc133 6mo ago
    They do offer blank keycaps, no labels, as an option…
• Elixir6419 6mo ago
  I would love to go framework and the specs here look pretty awesome but 5g modem is a must have for me and they dont really have an option for that. I am guessing due to the antennas.
• the_arun 6mo ago
  Macbook Pro 14" with M5, 32GB RAM, 1TB HDD = $2,099.00 Framework Pro 13" DIY AMD Ryzen 7 350, 32GB RAM, 1TB HDD = $2,049.00 Framework Pro 13" Pre-Built AMD Ryzen 7 350, 32GB RAM, 1TB HDD = $2,059.00
  • aljgz 6mo ago
    Your MBP's keyboard breaks? €730[1] Your FW's Keyboard breaks? Original price you paid, bonus: you can just buy the newest model. You want to upgrade anything in your MBP? "You know, with how thin, lightweight and fast they are, it's physically impossible to make them user-serviceable" On the FW? They gave you the one tool you needed when you purchased your laptop. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47822483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47822483
    • tredre3 6mo ago
      CTRL+F keyboard on your link. Not found. Why are you lying? That price is to replace the main board. Give us the price of the Framework's mainboard if you want to compare that.
      • bigyabai 6mo ago
        > Why are you lying? That price is to replace the main board. They aren't lying. Apple's OEM keyboard repair will charge you for the entire topcase assembly, which can easily crest $500. Contrast this with Framework or Thinkpad where a keyboard replacement is $20 and 5 minutes of screw work: https://www.ebay.com/itm/286053777254 https://www.ebay.com/itm/286053777254
• rickdg 6mo ago
  Very cool upgraded version. How noisy or hot does it get?
• stasomatic 6mo ago
  It’s a niche box within its own niche (Linux). Perhaps they’ll do a pivot to eco friendly slippers. I admire their manifesto, but can’t see them surviving. You can get a last year’s decent Thinkpad for $400-600 with parts galore. This thing, you buy it on principle only.
• nhumrich 6mo ago
  Personally, I don't understand aluminum chassis. Sure, it feels more premium, but it comes with quite a bit more weight than plastic, and I much prefer less weight over "feel" when it comes to a laptop.
  • whalesalad 6mo ago
    It manages heat better, with the entire chassis acting as a heatsink. Also unlike plastic, under repetetive heat/cool cycles the tolerances won't change like plastic will.
  • deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  • cassepipe 6mo ago
    Plastic. Never again will I allow a laptop to be unusable after some time because of a cracked chassis that couldn't handle mechanical and thermal stress correctly. Never.
• lazy-lambda 6mo ago
  I am getting this one for sure. The waiting is over.
• atlgator 6mo ago
  The 20 hour battery rating is for Windows 11. How long does Linux last?
• monegator 6mo ago
  - Intel CPU -> No thanks - Touchscreen -> mmkay, but i don't really care - Haptic touchpad -> I absolutely hate those. I want to click buttons. Buttons. Buttons. Well, this is not for me i guess :(
• dzhiurgis 6mo ago
  Very nitpicky, but video files for ASCII animation while advertising developer laptop. Cmon man.
• smallstepforman 6mo ago
  Who watches Netflix at 30% brightness? Another useless marketing blurb, really puts me off from reading the rest.
  • jhasse 6mo ago
    I do. Why not?
• cromka 6mo ago
  Too bad there's no second m2 slot for extra disk and no 5G WWAN support.
  • guerby 6mo ago
    You can add extra disk via the removable slots, frame.work shop has various disk sizes.
    • cromka 5mo ago
      Its not about size but being able to run a RAID1 setup for speed and redundancy. External USB storage doesn't help here.
      • guerby 5mo ago
        "With a USB 3.2 Gen 2 interface, it reaches 1000 MB/s read and 800 MB/s write speeds. It is fast enough to run apps and even boot an operating system from"
        • cromka 5mo ago
          That doesn't matter. Fastest PCIe 5.0 NVMe SSD is 14000MB/s. You typically run RAID1 on identical drives. It's also about IOPs, not just speed.
• muyuu 6mo ago
  Now that RAM is unobtainium anyway, it seems like the case for very energy efficient laptops is more compelling vs inference-capable ones.
• manuhabitela 6mo ago
  Man, this looks really, really impressive. It basically solves every issue we could find to the framework 13. Can't wait for the reviews. Accepting the prices of the ram shortage era is still painful, but even with the 64gb option, here in France it's still a great deal compared to similarly configured premium thinkpads or macbook pros.
• tokyobreakfast 6mo ago
  I get to choose 4 ports in a $2,000+ "developer" laptop? Is this a joke? Most of the port options are decoys because it means 1 or 0 USB ports. And no I'm not carrying around a satchel of modules like an old British lord.
• andrelaszlo 6mo ago
  It's beautiful. Just got a Framework 13 a few months ago, so I can't justify buying a pro just to get it in black... right?
  • kstrauser 6mo ago
    I think the pro is enough of an upgrade that it would pay for itself over the course of a year or so. It'd be practical and responsible for you to switch. (Now you have to validate the next person's justification when it comes up again.)
• hecifato 6mo ago
  I’ve been a MacBook guy for almost a decade now, but I’ve been watching Framework since their first announcement. This is the most appealing Framework device I’ve seen. The new display, battery life, the new Intel chips, and LPCAM2 memory all look great. I love my M1 MBP but Apple’s software quality has been rough the past year especially. I think this is also the first time the Framework 13 has officially supported Thunderbolt? Depending on how macOS 27 turns out I may seriously consider the 13 Pro as my next laptop. I’d slap Fedora Workstation on it and call it a day.
  • mshroyer 6mo ago
    I was lucky enough to be at the event and I can say the 13 Pro feels great in the hand. Overall chassis stiffness, typing (I guess due to the increased chassis stiffness), and the new touchpad all feel premium. Between that and the battery life, I think this really has a chance to win over a lot more current MBP users. FYI, the existing Framework 13 Intel motherboards do support Thunderbolt 4: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/usb-port-definition-matrix-framework-laptop-13-HkHVUHaTge https://knowledgebase.frame.work/usb-port-definition-matrix-... There's an additional, optional retimer update that's officially Thunderbolt certified, but I haven't bothered with that because my Thunderbolt dock was already working: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/framework-laptop-bios-and-driver-releases-13th-gen-intel-core-BkQBvKWr3 https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/framework-laptop-bios...
• etothet 6mo ago
  I really like what Framwork has been doing, but I have an honest question: is 20 hours of Netflix 4k streaming at 250nit and 30% volume a spec to show off? I genuinely don't know. I thought most modern laptops have dedicated video decode hardware that is fairly easy on battery. At only 250nit though...that seems dim by today's standards. I'm happy to be wrong though!
• nightski 6mo ago
  Beautiful laptop and then they stick a tiny 13" screen on there, I don't get it. 14" is the perfect size. Guess it just isn't the one for me.
  • yencabulator 6mo ago
    It's a 13.5" screen with a 3:2 aspect ratio. It's very comparable to many consumer-style 14" 16:10 screens.
• luxuryballs 6mo ago
  why is it so hard to find a simple keyboard layout diagram, the first full view of the keyboard I could find was flashing between different color options making it hard to see what the keys are, the first thing I think of for a “developer laptop” is what the keyboard is, feels like it should be more front-and-center (I might have just missed it though, on mobile)
• killingtime74 6mo ago
  Only 2.8k non OLED display?
• canada_dry 6mo ago
  Without a mockup of what all the customizable parts will look like... it's hard to commit to a build.
• SilverElfin 6mo ago
  I often see people talking about how MacBooks are better for local LLM usage. How would this compare?
• ciupicri 6mo ago
  > with excellent Linux support So can we finally update the firmware for the Sandisk SN7100 and 850X SSDs under Linux? Last time I've checked you couldn't even download the firmware for WD 850X using a plain browser. You had to use their "special" Windows software.
  • poisonsnak 6mo ago
    There's a github project that helps with this https://github.com/not-a-feature/wd_fw_update https://github.com/not-a-feature/wd_fw_update , or you can manually browse https://sddashboarddownloads.sandisk.com/wdDashboard/config/devices/lista_devices.xml https://sddashboarddownloads.sandisk.com/wdDashboard/config/... to find and download your firmware, and install it with nvme-cli. I've done it quite a few times.
• rkagerer 6mo ago
  Thoughts on the chassis being all aluminum, vs. a magnesium alloy?
  • rkagerer 6mo ago
    In case anyone's curious, my basis for comparison is an old Dell M6600 that's magnesium and has been awesome in terms of rigidity and durability. I still use it regularly even though it's going on 15 years old! (Mainly because I haven't found a newer laptop that's similarly maintainable that I actually like). Also wish it had an option for more RAM, even if the cost is astronomical at today's prices.
• christophilus 6mo ago
  I love their intro video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GnOpIQJnYWU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GnOpIQJnYWU Intel has really crushed it lately.
• matheusmoreira 6mo ago
  > Your country might not be supported yet. :(
• pxc 6mo ago
  Is Framework open to an OLED panel option in the future? I have an eye disease that makes extremely high contrast and extremely deep blacks very helpful to me, since it means I can get good contrast with less total light. I can still read LCD displays well enough, but as my eyes worsen, that may not be true. Since Framework has a great track record with display upgradability, just an indication that there is serious interest in OLED options in the future would be enough to sell me. So if anyone at Framework is reading this: is there any opposition inside framework to OLED? Any fundamental constraints that make OLED panels unlikely for the next several years?
• dbg31415 6mo ago
  Do people actually like touch screens? That's a huge negative for me.
  • modderation 5mo ago
    You can always order the pro parts along with a regular display from the regular Framework 13. Some assembly required, but the bits are all interchangeable, so you can have your non-touch display. Alternatively, you can also "not touch" the touch display :)
• DanHulton 6mo ago
  Oh my god, yet _another_ "developer-focused" laptop with full-sized left/right arrow keys, which are an absolutely miserable experience to actually use. How is it that Apple is the only company these days() that consistently gets this right? ( Yes, I know they used full-sized keys for a while, I moaned and cursed them at the time as well.)
  • bigyabai 6mo ago
    The modern Thinkpad arrow cluster spoils me; most other laptops leave me reaching for a convenient pgup/pgdn key that doesn't exist. I'd much rather see something like that, going back to Fn+up/dn makes me feel like a caveman.
  • trostaft 6mo ago
    ? Sorry, I've never seen this perspective, why do you want the smaller ones? The small arrow keys on my MacBook are one of my least favorite parts of the keyboard.
    • bschwindHN 6mo ago
      You want the smaller ones so you can easily locate the arrow key cluster without having to look. The empty space above the left and right arrow keys is a good tactile indicator that your fingers are on the correct location.
  • kristianp 6mo ago
    I agree with you that having full height left-right and half-sized up-down is a pain, because of the inconsistency. The problem I have with laptop keyboard is that the arrow key height is too small, and the cluster itself is too crowded to sit my fingers on comfortably when using arrows. I want the arrow cluster to have full sized keys.
  • stavros 6mo ago
    Real developers use hjkl, which, if this keyboard uses QMK like their previous ones, you can just remap to actual arrows (with a modifier key). I am only slightly joking.
• LandenLove 6mo ago
  It's unfortunate that I am unable to access these new products because Framework does not ship to Japan. I have an original Framework 13 that's CPU fan has been making death noises. There is also a broken screw mount in the base. I didn't do shipment forwarding. I just bought the product and later moved to Japan. Also, Framework supposedly blocks shipment forwarding. It's odd, because I remember them advertising a Japanese keyboard layout in the past. They must not see a large enough market to justify the costs.
  • spaghettifythis 6mo ago
    Same problem here in NZ - they only ship to AUS, despite lots of people here being keen on their laptops. I know multiple people who have made it a point to time a trip to AUS with buying a Framework so they can pick it up while they're over there.
    • LandenLove 6mo ago
      I hope they ship to your region soon!
• alfiedotwtf 6mo ago
  This looks like it would fit my next purchase, but how does VRAM work in this scenario (I can’t find anything in the docs)?
• koiueo 6mo ago
  I said it before, I'll say it again: I won't consider Framework until they ditch they're crippled cursor block or offer trackpoint. I'll buy one on the day of release if they offer both options (my most recent¹ Lenovo is long overdue for replacement) ¹ I don't think I'll ever sell my X220, any I regret selling my X270. Everything after that was a disappointment.
• sourcegrift 6mo ago
  What linux needs is a better logo, it's come so far ahead
• pigeons 6mo ago
  Trackpoint/nipple?
• ericfrederich 6mo ago
  Glad they got a touchscreen but would really like to see a convertible/2-in-1
  • robotnikman 5mo ago
    That would be the Framework 12, I hope they release one with the new panther lake processors soon. Seems like Intel is finally starting to get up to speed with TSMC again.
• pveierland 6mo ago
  I'm amazed looking at the upgrade kit. It's everything you need to go from the old 13" to the Pro; including chassis, display, battery, keyboard etc - listed at $255. That's an instant buy from me. https://frame.work/sg/en/products/framework-laptop-13-pro-chassis-kit-graphite https://frame.work/sg/en/products/framework-laptop-13-pro-ch...
  • arximboldi 6mo ago
    Same... I bought a 13 last year, super happy with it but was kind of sad after seeing this release because this new design is just so much better and addresses all the concerns I had with the machine... until I saw this. Fuck I do love these guys! Give me a little hope in humanity. Will definitely buy this new chasis as soon as I can!
  • StrLght 5mo ago
    This doesn't sound quite right, I think they put a wrong price there. Bottom cover alone goes for more than that, even without battery or speakers: https://frame.work/sg/en/products/laptop13pro-bottom-cover-kit?v=FRANKN000H https://frame.work/sg/en/products/laptop13pro-bottom-cover-k... So does the screen: https://frame.work/sg/en/products/laptop13pro-display-kit https://frame.work/sg/en/products/laptop13pro-display-kit
    • pveierland 5mo ago
      Agreed - $255 sounded too good to be true. Fingers crossed it doesn't end up too crazy, because that chassis looks good!
• farfatched 6mo ago
  I'm a "Linux I. 2nd hand ThinkPad" type of person, but have recently admired my [first] MacBook Air. Does a Framework Laptop bridge the gap somewhat?
• whatever1 6mo ago
  Please make a standalone case with a usb port for the keyboard trackpad! I would love to have it for when I connect the laptop to an external monitor. I hate the mouse, but I love the trackpad right under the keyboard. There is no such product in the market.
• nl 6mo ago
  Strix Halo version available for pre-order!
  • StrLght 5mo ago
    It's not? The only 2 options available there are last gen Strix Point (AI 300 series).
• sudo_cowsay 6mo ago
  This fixes a lot of things that had made me hesitant to buy Framework before.
• LoganDark 6mo ago
  The highest tier of this laptop comes with four performance cores and twelve efficiency cores? What kind of Linux-kernel-compiler wants four cores?
• nreece 6mo ago
  I would have liked the option of non-touch display, and although the display is variable rate (30-120Hz) it's not going to be as optimal as the 1-120Hz panel in the Dell XPS 14 getting it to 40+ hours (https://x.com/dhh/status/2040139744445673938 https://x.com/dhh/status/2040139744445673938).
• WanderPanda 6mo ago
  I would be really interested in a podcast with the CEO where he goes a bit into the trade-offs of backwards and forwards compatibility. I can not imagine that their planning was so immaculate that there aren't any regressions that a clean slate design could have cleaned up. Nevertheless, amazing job for putting this together it looks like a phenomenal product!
• archon810 6mo ago
  Is there an option for a keyboard with dedicated PgUp/PgDn/Home/End/Insert/Delete keys? I looked at a bunch of designs and didn't find any. If this is a developer-focused laptop, how can the keyboard be so developer-unfriendly? This is why I keep getting Lenovo laptops, they don't compromise on these keys.
  • deleted 6mo ago
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  • nmlt 6mo ago
    There are enough keys there, just configure some to your liking. That’s a software problem.
    • manuhabitela 5mo ago
      You certainly can't remap the Fn key on the software side. If the keyboard firmware allows to remap the Fn-layer it would be a dream :)
    • delamon 5mo ago
      Not really. PgUp, PgDown are missing. It is possible to configure software combination that would emulate them. But emulation is emulation.
  • kombine 5mo ago
    I agree, ThinkPad T14 series has the perfect keyboard that I genuinely miss on my corporate HP laptop.
  • GreenWatermelon 5mo ago
    The perfect keyboards, for me, are the ones that put HomeEndPgupPgdwn on Fn+Arrow keys. It's just perfect.
• daemin 6mo ago
  Part of me was hoping there would be some sort of official arm mainboard announced, I know there's the third party version but they don't seem to sell the main board only.
• Barbing 6mo ago
  Congratulations! Incredible!
• jmakov 6mo ago
  No Ryzen options? Also no 1600nits display for working outside. Battery and display brightness are the only reasons I'm sticking with Macbook Pro.Sad it's not a priority for any other manufacturer. Because that's all you need, quality display, battery and remote access.
  • modderation 6mo ago
    Intel got a lot of attention during the keynote, but the Ryzen AI 300 series mainboards are available if you want them. It's one of the first few choices in the configuration flow.
• landsman 6mo ago
  I have to buy it. This company deserve a support.
• chrysoprace 6mo ago
  I'll be excited to buy one of these (or the newer iteration) if component prices ever return to pre-2025 levels. AUD$800 for 32GB RAM is insanity (which is of course not within their control, but my purchasing impulses are - at least for now).
• turowicz 6mo ago
  You can get a new Asus P16 ProArt with 5070 for exact same price (AI 370, 2TB drive, 64GB RAM)
  • kombine 6mo ago
    16" inch laptop with a tkl keyboard and an AMD chip - why don't we have more of them on the market?
• gigatexal 6mo ago
  This reminds me of the legit coal smoke black PowerBooks of yesteryear. If they make a 16 inch model I’ll def consider it.
• jeremy8883 6mo ago
  Finally a haptic trackpad. Unfortunately not having one was a dealbreaker when purchasing my laptop last year, but next upgrade I'll be able to consider them again.
• asimovDev 6mo ago
  this looks exciting. We are allowed to choose between Windows, macOS and Linu at my job so I might consider this when we are due for an upgrade in a year or 2. Feels wrong to discard our M2 Pro machines when they are perfectly capable of my relatively minuscule workloads at the moment, it only slowed down once when I had a memory leak in Safari from a AWS tab
• vbezhenar 5mo ago
  This page is confusing and maybe even misleading. They write "Linux first". Few paragraphs later they write: 20 hours, Netflix 4K streaming, 250nit brightness, 30% volume, Windows 11. Why didn't they stream Neflix on Ubuntu they ship with? Overall it looks awesome. I just bought Thinkpad T14s upgrading from the same model of older generation, I wish Framework would expand its sales coverage, probably would buy it without second thought if it was available in my country without overseas shipping and customs tax hurdles.
  • ben-schaaf 5mo ago
    > Why didn't they stream Neflix on Ubuntu they ship with? It's not exactly impressive to say you can stream 20 hours of 540p video. Netflix DRM is awful for Linux users. Though I agree it would have been better to show a benchmark of youtube or similar for Linux.
  • sunbum 5mo ago
    Netflix doesnt support 4k streaming on Linux.
    • deleted 5mo ago
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    • Orygin 5mo ago
      They should have tested something else, like a raw H265 4K video or something. Can't imagine "pro" users would be amazed by the battery life of watching netflix.
  • vincentkriek 5mo ago
    4k on linux is not possible due to drm I think?
  • Mashimo 5mo ago
    I bet the linux drivers are not fully done yet and will mature after release.
• Melatonic 5mo ago
  Damn this is cool !!
• wiseowise 5mo ago
  If Framework offered MacOS keyboard layout I’d switch without a thought. > Watch a Framework Laptop 13 Pro battery go from 100% to 0%. Live. Live stream is not available.
• modeless 5mo ago
  Hard for me to justify an Intel or even AMD chip now when not just Apple but even Qualcomm are trouncing them on single core performance. The Snapdragon X2 Elite performance cores are faster than any Intel or AMD core ever made, full stop. Unfortunately Linux support isn't fully baked yet, but people are working on it.
• advirol 5mo ago
  What I miss is a keyboard with dedicated keys for Home, End, Insert, Delete, PageUp, and PageDown. Sadly, this is still something only ThinkPads get right. I really would like to give other laptops a chance but the substandard keyboards of most laptops are always holding me back.
  • manuhabitela 5mo ago
    yeah, why don't vendors just copy the damn thinkpad layout? It's a _pro_ line-up, we deserve a keyboard where _pros_ can directly use the keyboard shortcuts in their _pro_ apps :) I wonder if the 13 pro uses qmk or similar for its keyboard firmware, I think the framework 16 does, so maybe? Being able to re-arrange on the hardware level the Fn-key related layer would make it the perfect laptop keyboard for me. Otherwise, it rubs me the wrong way to pay 3 000€ for a premium device with a rather frustrating keyboard layout. But oh well, paying even more for macbook pros that have an even worse keyboard makes the pill easier to swallow I guess.
  • redditor98654 5mo ago
    Absolutely. What I had hoped was a proper 75% layout with proper full sized up and down arrow keys.
• spankibalt 5mo ago
  Cool, though I'd prefer a Framework 12 Pro (convertible, or even a detachable) with a Wacom EMR digitizer.
• poisonborz 5mo ago
  I really wish they'd do a tablet / MS Surface alternative. After the Laptop 12 the experience should be there. The demand is real and the current landscape looks dire. Alone the people who say they'd love an iPad Pro with a real OS on it.
• dalmo3 5mo ago
  Ohh they finally ship to New Zealand. It's a shame they wouldn't last year, and I ended up with a Lenovo :/
• amai 5mo ago
  Why do I need a touchscreen and Dolby Atmos as developer?
  • TonyTrapp 5mo ago
    YMMV but I primarily have a touch screen on my laptop so that I can see how my software breaks when people try to use it with a touch screen.
• hgo 5mo ago
  I saw the announcement video and I'm so relieved to hear actual honest language! - Actually naming your inspiration as Apple - Saying that thanks to machined body, the keyboard is actually slightly better. No overstatement, just an honest detail - No: "This is our best laptop yet" (As if managing to not making it worse is something to be proud of) - To the point, fast paced, clear communication - Honestly stating that you're working hard on getting as good as "the gold standard, which of course is Apples track pad" and that you think you'll get there soon - Clearly stating that the new memory standard is not magically your own invention somehow even though you're the first to use it - Clearly stating the actual numbers of the battery in Wh and density AND also how many video minutes you get - Clearly stating, not hiding but also not overstating that you started the company for the purpose of upgradeability - Proving what you mean with examples before emphasising that "we really mean it when we say we have redesigned the computer from the ground up" (While absolutely fantastically letting the new motherboards upgrade last generation chassis!) Result: I placed a pre-order, and kind of felt sad for this honest and clear language to apparently be rare.
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• rldjbpin 5mo ago
  the chassis upgrade is welcome and it is nice to see the company grow enough to start creating custom hardware, and supporting standards that should keep things modular without sacrifice. at the same time, there is a decent level of risk with using "new" standards before the industry catches up. lpcamm2 is great and should allow faster memory while "upgradable". the issue is with only having one slot which forces you to replace memory instead of adding to it. this is working with the assumption of having a single slot, which i am happy to be proven wrong on. the current timing is a shame but at least when one needs to shell out so much money after all, might as well get better performance and hardware along with it.
• maximzxc 5mo ago
  Why no trackpoint support yet? I saw it being requested a lot of times already. Really tired of using ThinkPads, would love to change to anything else, but trackpoint is the only thing that keeps me from switching.
• bloq66 5mo ago
  As I love the idea of modular and repairable laptop, I've got some issues with it. I have Framework 13 AMD with Fedora (as Arch was almost unusable on it for me). Connecting external hardware to it, especially dock stations and monitors - which work flawlessly with another laptops - sometimes works, sometimes not...
  • ThePyCoder 5mo ago
    Please check their docs. I have a fw13 amd as well and there's one usb port on the mainboard that does not support video out over usb c. It could be that!
• drzaiusx11 5mo ago
  This is a very impressive release. At 17h to 20hr battery life on Linux, I'll finally be a able to solve my MacBook addiction. With my M2 MacBook running Asahi Linux or my work M3 MacBook running MacOS I easily get 10+hrs on battery. I've made several "attempts" to jump ship from Apple hardware before, like the dell XPS "developer edition" which ships with Linux so all the hardware was supported out of the box; the hardware was OK, but the battery life was abysmal. If I can't get 8hr of battery on a machine battery it's just a portable desktop.
• fy20 5mo ago
  Interesting that the memory in the laptop is upgradeable or bring-your-own, where as in the Framework Desktop it is soldered. How does that work?
  • robotnikman 5mo ago
    The desktops use AMD Strix Halo chips which require soldered on memory for the required bandwidth.
• nailer 5mo ago
  > The side-firing speakers are tuned with Dolby Atmos® to deliver clear, balanced audio on Windows, ideal for calls or music while you work. Isn't this a Linux device? Why not skip mentioning this non-feature?
• EricRiese 5mo ago
  It's so ironic. I've had several Thinkpads over the years and I've repaired or upgraded every one of them, from RAM, SSDs, an upgraded screen, and a new fan/heatsink assembly. I have a first generation Framework 13 and I've yet to upgrade it. And by now this new Pro model has an upgrade for every component. If it weren't for crazy prices, I'd just buy a whole new laptop. At least I have the option of that CoolerMaster case. But maybe it'd be best to just sell the whole thing.
• jmakov 5mo ago
  Linux first but the battery life measured on Win 11?
• mistyvales 5mo ago
  I'm not yet ready to upgrade my old laptop yet, but this could change things. The RAM prices will probably put a damper on that however. Not ready to spend that much money on what will prob drop in a year or two (hopefully not 3).
• kevinfarrugia 5mo ago
  With any other laptop I wouldn't be paying attention to their latest releases one year after buying a new laptop. With Framework I am excited to see what they release and on the lookout for how I can upgrade my device.
• oliver66677 5mo ago
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