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Anyone can push updates to the doge.gov website
- 4ndrewl 2y agoWith friends like these, who needs enemies?
- bufferoverflow 2y ago[flagged]
- 4ndrewl 2y agoThis isnt "getting hacked". This is basic 101 kids stuff. Any competent org wouldnt allow this anywhere near their dev environments let alone prod.
- notahacker 2y agoAnd it's not a big org or one with a strict division of responsibilities between clumsy juniors who update the website and carefully vetted experienced pros who do the real work, so this is likely to be representative the calibre of developer currently trawling through sensitive government databases....
- ramon156 2y agoFound the DOGE employee
- bufferoverflow 2y ago[flagged]
- pesus 2y agoWhat agency is that?
- bufferoverflow 2y ago[flagged]
- orthecreedence 2y agoIn case you were asking genuinely: TDS is "Trump Derangement Syndrome." Generally coined to critique people who are furious with Trump no matter what he does. For instance, one time he ate McDonalds at the white house and there were articles criticizing the event for days. But it's often over-applied by Trump's supporters to dismiss any real criticism (the above being a perfect example).
- 83457 2y agoSome of his supporters have their own “TDS”.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- phailhaus 2y agoWho cares about security. As long as the libs are crying, right?
- bufferoverflow 2y ago[flagged]
- jasonvorhe 2y agoThis reductionist way of thinking isn't doing you or anyone any good. Unless you have at least some circumstantial evidence hinting at that, apart from "someone disagrees with me so they must be x", this isn't providing any value to the discussion.
- anigbrowl 2y agoYou should probably address your criticisms to the gp. Giving trolls a pass and wagging fingers at people who reject their specious arguments is an increasingly common failure pattern.
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoTrolls don't get a pass. But neither do their critics. You want to criticize a troll? Be my guest. Criticize away. (Or just downvote and flag.) But if you criticize, do better than false accusation. (There's a fine real accusation to make, namely "you're being a troll"; you don't have to make false accusations.) Be better than the trolls. Don't stoop to their level.
- anigbrowl 2y agoI really think people can distinguish between a formal accusation and snark. Now, I agree that in febrile political environments it's better not to rely on sarcasm and satire for communication because it imposes extra cognitive overhead and is subject to misinterpretation, but at the same time 'found the [negative stereotype]' is such a common joke format in American popular culture that it would be foolish to take it literally. It's like objecting to a 'knock knock' joke by complaining that the person is lying about being on the other side of a door. And putting trolls and their critics on the same level is fundamentally foolish, and a much worse example of feeding trolls. It means attacking the critics for paying the trolls back in their own coin, which inevitably leads to a ratchet effect in favor of the trolls. There's good evidence that being rude to trolls is the most effective way for an online community to maintain itself: https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.03697 https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.03697
- 2y ago
- timeon 2y agoImagine Google doing this performative stunt and getting hacked.
- nxobject 2y agoIronically enough, the WHOIS record points to CISA – the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency. Very confidence-building.
- croes 2y agohttps://www.npr.org/2025/02/06/nx-s1-5288883/cisa-staffers-deferred-resignations-doge https://www.npr.org/2025/02/06/nx-s1-5288883/cisa-staffers-d...
- itronitron 2y agoif you think you own everything then there are no external threats
- BarryMilo 2y agoAnd internal threats, well, you just have to deal with those, no matter the cost!
- asynchronousx 2y agoGuys, ALL .gov records point to CISA. That’s one of the requirements for getting a .gov domain in the US. This is standard practice.
- locallost 2y ago[flagged]
- zoelow 2y agohttps://archive.ph/wy1Wt https://archive.ph/wy1Wt
- zmgsabst 2y agoLots of government websites are vulnerable early on. Hope they used good proxies, because this seems like a felony. > One of the sources told 404 Media that they were able to push updates to a database of government employment information after studying the website’s architecture and finding the database’s API endpoints. Oof, not something to put in your article.
- lvturner 2y ago"Able to" and "Did" are two very different things.
- zmgsabst 2y ago> This person showed me two database entries they were able to push to the website, which are live on doge.gov as I write this (archived here and here) All you had to do was actually read the article; it’s the very next paragraph from the one I quoted.
- lvturner 2y agoApologies. Missed that line, you are quite correct.
- netsharc 2y ago> push updates to a database of government employment information Huh, what would be the goal of connecting this database to an API on or near doge.gov? Surely it's not the "actual"/"source of truth" database, more likely a copy: I can imagine the geniuses thought ""let's mirror everything online on a single system so it's easier for all of us to access it and do queries like "WHERE gender NOT IN ('m', 'f') OR race NOT IN ('white')" and get results from all the databases we know of."". (I assume there is no single federal employee database?) And since the truth is whatever they say nowadays, maybe it IS the "source of truth" database.
- zmgsabst 2y ago[flagged]
- rainforest 2y agoFor a while the /join page was blocked by cloudflare WAF yesterday - I wonder if this is why.
- cozzyd 2y agoThose DOGE 10Xers are so efficient they're outsourcing website content to the general public.
- petargyurov 2y agoMove fast and break things, government edition.
- whoomp12342 2y agoow, put it back
- Adachi91 2y agoFail Fasterer™
- Shank 2y agoIt looks like the defacement was already cleared, but archives are available [0][1]. I posted these separately because of 404Media's soft-paywall, which is also linked separately here. [0]: https://archive.md/XzvTY https://archive.md/XzvTY [1]: https://archive.md/cMeco https://archive.md/cMeco
- Hamuko 2y agoI still see them live.
- whoitwas 2y agoIt's a "team" of junior hackers. What do you expect? I don't quite understand the motive. I mean the motive of the masses who cheer this on. Is it just to own the libs? They have to all be evil or completely misinformed. I assume most are ignorant and only a few are evil.
- crocowhile 2y agoWell, the ministry of propaganda says this is la creme de la creme and we can trust their handling of government data blindly. So showing that DOGE is unable to even secure their website is a good exercise of hacker activism. The times are mature to rediscover where the word hacker came from. It never rhymed with billionaire but it seems this website tried hard to change that narrative.
- whoitwas 2y agoExcuse me if you think I referred to Elon Musk as a hacker. He's a marketer. I meant the nazi kids he hired.
- croes 2y agoThe same kids who have now access to vital US systems. Better people learn about their lack of experience fro a hacked doge site than a hacked paxment system. The ones who will hack that won't be as friendly.
- boxed 2y ago[flagged]
- gunnihinn 2y agoTheir boss does nazi salutes at political events. They’re nazis.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rsynnott 2y agoI am shocked, SHOCKED! that this Elon Musk thing staffed by a bunch of weirdos he found wherever isn't very competent.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoloyalty >> competence
- fecal_henge 2y agoCan someone help me with what roro means?
- tennisflyi 2y agoI think they meant "ruh roh" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3SaxRRfJ4E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3SaxRRfJ4E
- gavinray 2y agoIt's common to sign your handle to exploit/pwn'ed messages. I'd wager the person who did the edit goes by the name "roro".
- PokemonNoGo 2y agoScooby dooby Doo...
- buyucu 2y ago[flagged]
- mieses 2y agooh good i hope someone other than China can now access all the natsec data
- dadbod 2y ago[flagged]
- axegon_ 2y ago[flagged]
- amitrip 2y ago[dead]
- throwrats 2y ago[flagged]
- kennysoona 2y agoNo they're going to be insufferable for the next 4 years celebrating literally every action the current admin takes no matter what and blaming every problem on the last guy in office. Having a front row seat to the fall of the biggest empire in history is certainly something.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- throwrats 2y ago[flagged]
- gorbachev 2y agoIdiocracy is a documentary.
- Y-bar 2y agoToo optimistic. President Camacho listened to the smartest person in the room and allowed them to improve everyones situation the best way he could.
- perrygeo 2y agoThe only unrealistic part is where it happens in the distant future. 19 years since its release, we've made exceptional progress in making it reality.
- cyberlimerence 2y agoEvery other intelligence agency on the planet is about to scoop a ton of American data via cyber and basic HUMINT. It's free for all out there, I guess.
- average_r_user 2y agoTinfoil hat mode: "What if" this results from a foreign influence? But I guess that you don't need to find answers externally when stupidity is a much simpler reason
- ethagnawl 2y agoI've been wondering this myself, not that I necessarily believe it. If they _were_ acting at the behest of a foreign adversary (pick your reason: leverage over an individual because of a targeted campaign, leverage over all of them because of the SolarWinds/Salt Typhoon hack, cash, etc.), how different would their actions look?
- not2b 2y agoSometimes the tool doesn't have to know he's a tool. The Russians use the term "useful idiot". They've created the back doors, I'm sure that the Russians and the Chinese are now in the systems the DOGE people broke.
- yieldcrv 2y agoforeign influence like a South African blood diamond heir?
- delecti 2y agoThat accusation is wildly off base. He's a blood emerald heir.
- dobin 2y agoIts not just this website. Since DOGE, China probably canceled all vacation days for their hackers, as its a free for all. Firing of most so many people including security departments and most likely the (good) femboy furry hackers. Is the newly created user with name "bigballs" who downloads whole government databases a foreign TA or just DOGE? Who knows. Who cares, certainly not the Government. The data and access gained currently by China, Russia, NK and SA will continue to be useful until and way after the next war.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rob_c 2y agoWell it was probably faithfully outsourced to people with correct documentation and certificates with their weight in gold then...
- SXX 2y agoThat would be very inefficient spending. They hired some cheap Upwork freelancers instead.
- aithrowawaycomm 2y agoPretty gross to think of these people doing code reviews for projects they have no familiarity with - along with of course this bafflingly incompetent tweet: https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1889062581848944961#m https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1889062581848944961#m Donald Trump said DOGE were "super-geniuses," and according to his standards they probably are. (The way Trump's election directly led to "retard" being a common pejorative again hasn't been discussed enough. Just awful.)
- rsynnott 2y agoThis is about the level of Musk's understanding of tech: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12519729 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12519729 Games are written for Windows, therefore webapps should be written with "Microsoft C++" (presumably meaning Visual C++, though I suppose there's an outside chance that he means "Microsoft C/C++", from the early 90s). He's not new to being... bad at this.
- dada78641 2y agoReading that set of quotes, it really is incredible how little Musk knows about even extremely basic things. He doesn't understand there are different problem spaces in tech, and that different problem spaces require completely different approaches and skill sets. To him, something like World of Warcraft is very impressive, so if you build Paypal on the same technology it will be impressive too. Like, honestly it's shocking that this guy is allowed near anything that has a button.
- rsynnott 2y agoThe "games programmers are best programmers, in all senses" thing is a very, very common point of layperson confusion; not totally sure why. (As someone who has worked in both the games industry and Big Tech(tm), yeah, no.)
- pas 2y agoBecause a game looks hard. Forms look easy. Website? Even a phone can run a website, but a game requires that beefy big box!
- tjpnz 2y agoThey're promising to deliver security next quarter.
- giomasce 2y agoYou mean Full Self Security?
- cellwebb 2y agoFull SS by 2028 :(
- bamboozled 2y agoI thought this was a feature to make it easier to leech information ?
- cedws 2y agoElon Musk needs it most of all, he’s the most insecure human in existence.
- EvanKnowles 2y agoIf I click Join I am immediately redirected to a "Sorry, you have been blocked You are unable to access doge.gov" CloudFlare page. That's odd.
- bstsb 2y agosame, i'm assuming they've set up a firewall rule on the cloudflare dashboard to block non-internal ips for certain routes
- CompuIves 2y agoIt's a block for non-US IPs, I think. The page is an application form for joining them, and it only accepts US citizens.
- amarcheschi 2y agoI think this is it, in eu i get blocked but if I access it via VPN I can open the page
- Larrikin 2y agoUS citizens have to pay federal taxes abroad but now can't view federal websites.
- mystified5016 2y agoYup, that checks out
- tothrowaway 2y agoThat's been the case for a long time. I made a big stink about not being able to fill out my census survey to my congresswomen. It got nowhere.
- oulipo 2y ago[flagged]
- poniko 2y agoTransparency maximum.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- libsofhn 2y ago[flagged]
- Brendinooo 2y agoDoes anyone want to talk about the hack itself? Can anyone give more details than "left their database open"? I came to this site hoping for a real discussion about that and didn't see it here yet...
- a012 2y agoMy bet is on SQL injection
- shaunpud 2y ago[flagged]
- rozap 2y agoIn the year of our lord 2025? I doubt it. I'd put money on "some third party cloud service was configured in a silly way". But, I would love to see details.
- radicalbyte 2y agoThey used one of those databases which are easy to connect directly to the internet, it's the same thing as about 90% of modern data breaches. Every generation we make things much easier, lower the bar, and are rewarded when amateurs make amateur mistakes like this.
- bregma 2y agoWe made it so easy to program that any idiot could do it. So they do.
- radicalbyte 2y agoI found my new signature quote.
- koakuma-chan 2y agoNo way this is real.
- Molitor5901 2y agoWell, it seems to be working fine now.
- Molitor5901 2y agoIt's still working today.
- greatpatton 2y agoIs it me or mods are actively hiding everything that is critical of the current admin? This post is 6 hours late, 308 points and at the bottom of the 3rd page. This is not the first post that is either flagged or just made invisible. Is HN still a place we can trust?
- et-al 2y agoI trust dang. I also believe there are a bunch of Musk fanboys on this site that would flag this. Or people who don’t want to understand the implications of what’s going on and avoid anything that’s “political”.
- Balgair 2y agoKnowing how petty Elon is with Diablo and PoE, I do not at all put it past him to have some bots/cheap labor just flag anything about him. I also trust dang Don't know how to square these thing either, though
- dang 2y agoIt's not bots flagging these things, it's regular users. Unless the regular users are bots, which seems unlikely. When there's a major ongoing topic like this one, especially when it's divisive, the flags tend to come from a combination of (1) users who flag one-sidedly for what appear to be political reasons, and (2) users who don't think the story is on-topic for HN, whether because it's too sensational / flame-prone, too repetitive, or both. The first is a bad reason to flag and the second is a good reason. When we notice users flagging repeatedly for bad reasons, we take their flagging privileges away.
- Balgair 2y agoHey dang, thanks for the reply. I didn't know you take the flagging away. That's not a bad idea. I've been seeing you defend yourself all over the place these days. Sorry to make you feel like you had to do that here too. My comment was more one of confusion, to clarify. Reading your comments these last few weeks, I trust in your decisions and those of the rest of the mods. HN is a really good place because of you all. But I also know Elon is super petty/crazy and doing some monkey business is not above him. And yes, I know that sounds very conspiracy theory of me based on your comment here. Suffice to say, maybe I'm just reacting to the sea change in HN participation and doing some 'self protection'. I like HN and then I recognize this flagging behavior on mostly just two men. Is there more flagging? Yes, but that's 'background' to me. These things don't square to my mind, so I go off to conspiracy land. Either way, my lizard brain is triggered and whether I like it or not, I can't help feeling 'bad/danger'. Maybe some self-work is needed. Still, thanks a ton for all the time and the effort yo and the rest of the mod team put in here. I really appreciate it.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoThis post now appears on page 5 of HN despite being number 1 at /active :<
- rozap 2y agoTIL about /active. There have been so many of these types posts that have been hidden from the front page.
- noname120 2y agohttps://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented#flame-war-detector https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented#flame-...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dang 2y ago/active shows the threads that are accumulating comments most quickly. If we ranked the frontpage that way, then HN would be a flamewar site. Therefore we don't rank the frontpage that way.
- insane_dreamer 2y agofair enough; thanks for the explain. I do appreciate that HN doesn't turn into a flamewar while allowing discussions and not flagging everything just because it's controversial, especially with all the impactful stuff going on. kudos on the moderating and threading that needle; tough job
- mbravorus 2y agoso most people here are salty about Doge actually delivering on transparency, albeit imperfectly, vs promises and SLS style multi billion "effort" unable to deliver for decades? mind you, it's totally legit to ridicule the noob security lapses, but the rest of the sentiment here seems a bit meh
- insane_dreamer 2y agoI agree the website itself is fine -- not that the information wasn't publicly available before, but having it consolidated is nice. But as for transparency, DOGE isn't at all being transparent about what it is doing. I'd give them an F so far on that.
- bakuninsbart 2y agoI'm generally trying to keep away from the whole political madness going on, but when I do follow a story, Iat least try to verify what I am seeing. This requires a fair bit of mental energy, intelligence and frustration tolerance, and is frankly impossible to do for more than a fraction of what is going on. For example, the recent headlines of the state department trying to buy $400m worth of armored Tesla vehicles was obviously a Democrat plant. It was done under the Biden administration in December, with no chance of fulfilling before the handover. Some.one thought it would be a simple way of making the Trump admin look bad. You have to always be wary of being misled by the media in today's age. That said, the shit-slinging coming out of Doge has been largely false and illegal. If Congress assigns money to fund impressionist dancers in Pakistan, then that's what it has to be spent on. The real issue here is that to get a bill passed in the US a lot of fluff has to get attached to it. Doge can't unilaterally cancel payments without breaking the law. Even in the cases I looked at were real corruption is plausible, ie. the money given to the Clinton Foundation, Doge just straight up lied about the amounts and purpose. Outside of corruption, there is no good reason to move this fast and reckless. At least no good reason for the American people. They are moving this fast because they know what they do is illegal and idiotic and false, and they are trying to drown us in bullshit. Musk gets a nice kickback for every single link going back to his own website (that is actually corruption), but more importantly, they are building up outrage fatigue for normal people and a frenzy for their fanatics. This is all about paving the way to paint legality as corruption so that they can justify ignoring the courts and Congress going forward.
- deadbabe 2y agoMaybe they should fire these kids and replace them with REAL engineers. And I know some of those kids probably read Hackernews, so here’s the advice: put away ChatGPT and learn what the fuck you’re doing.
- guywithahat 2y agoThe one good thing about them all being so young is it explains why I never got an interview; at 28 I was too old to ever get a job there
- deadbabe 2y agoYup. At 28 you’re going to have way more things in your life distracting you from the job, you’re probably prioritizing work life balance which is a red flag.
- baggachipz 2y agoWhy would you apply to work in this debacle. Ever.
- drawkward 2y agoTo move slow and break DOGE?
- guywithahat 2y agoYou can criticize it all you want but I'd be working directly for the President and the richest man alive, doing incredible LLM-powered work that's basically never been done before. Not only would all the work be innovative (and thus fun), but it would look incredible on a resume
- acdha 2y ago“Incredible” is far from a given. If DOGE doesn’t provide enough benefits to cancel out the billions if dollars of economic disruption it’s causing, or if the purported savings turn out to be misrepresentation instead of real, you look like a political hatchet man instead of an engineer. A reputation for making mistakes (like making your web site world-writable) and jumping to conclusions probably isn’t what you want.
- tolmasky 2y agoI guess DOGE lives up to "Vox Populi, Vox Dei" even better than Twitter.
- waltercool 2y agoPlease stop sharing paywall content. We are not paying subscriptions because some headline.
- outside1234 2y agoIdiocracy in full effect! Just wait until we have a huge outbreak of Measles or are prescribed essential oils for cancer...
- avanai 2y agoToo late. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/12/science/measles-vaccination-texas.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/12/science/measles-vaccinati...
- neilv 2y agoNot a good look, when you're doing a blitz of obviously criminally -- treasonously -- reckless things. It's harder for supporters to even pretend that you're even minimally competent.
- leptons 2y agoI'm not sure you've actually heard from their supporters - they have proven again and again that there is literally nothing they won't excuse or handwave away.
- hn_acc1 2y agoMany of their supporters wouldn't know a webpage from a database schema and once thought Bill Gates would send him $$ for forwarding emails. Like my 60+ BIL.
- nomdep 2y agoSure, because half of the country is stupid (that’s the only explanation!) unlike you oh, enlightened one
- danso 2y agoWorth noting that the U.S. Digital Service (USDS, i.e the org that DOGE has now subsumed) has for a long while been experts at building and deploying static websites for the federal government. And doing it completely in the open. Within minutes you can literally clone and re-deploy all of httsp://usds.gov — 150MB of 2,700 assets and documents, built on Jekyll — locally or on S3. They've even written out the complete deployment instructions: https://github.com/usds/website https://github.com/usds/website
- darth_avocado 2y agoBut that’s only useful if the incoming people in charge don’t have any contempt towards existing employees and want to leverage best practices instead of pretending that they know better. Twitter had the same problem after Elon took over.
- bozhark 2y agoYou mean the next incoming people
- TheGRS 2y agoYea so far DOGE doesn't seem like they take any time to ask questions or research before doing anything.
- xd1936 2y agoThere's always a relevant XKCD. https://xkcd.com/932/ https://xkcd.com/932/
- hsuduebc2 2y agoClassical snake oil sales
- gvx 2y agoEveryone knows investing in cybersecurity is just wasteful spending!
- linuxhansl 2y agoIs that really a surprise to anyone. DOGE is theater, a stage show.
- enraged_camel 2y agoThey are doing tremendous damage for something that is supposed to be a stage show. Among everything they've done over the past three weeks, HUD is being gutted as we speak and the company a friend works at lost $100 million in contracts practically overnight.
- linuxhansl 2y agoI agree. My apologies. I didn't mean to diminish the damage they are doing.
- dingnuts 2y ago[flagged]
- epc 2y agoIf it’s a $100,000,000 contract then it was appropriated by Congress. Whether or not it’s “waste” is entirely irrelevant.
- almosthere 2y agoThat's the problem, there is no amount of money that separates something "appropriated by congress" or "slush funding in USAID". USAID was given 50B a year, can spend it on ANYTHING it wants, there is no further congressional approval required. I do think we need to get back to a point where a congressmen needs to approve each check over 10k. Heck, it would at least give them something to do, and feel the money roll and make their choices in Congress mean something again.
- tomrod 2y agoLiterally not how anything in Civ agencies or CivTech works. Can't speak for defense.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Pxtl 2y agoIt took twelve hours to get one of the vandalized pages taken down. https://bsky.app/profile/pxtl.ca/post/3li5vddrkw227 https://bsky.app/profile/pxtl.ca/post/3li5vddrkw227
- internetter 2y agoOnly the most viral ones: https://bsky.app/profile/boehs.org/post/3li5m3cekec2s https://bsky.app/profile/boehs.org/post/3li5m3cekec2s They still have not successfully purged the database, though the endpoint has been secured.
- Pxtl 2y agoHah, that one's still up even now.
- taytus 2y agoIt seems Elon's DOGE boys aren't as tech-savvy as he made them out to be
- jpcom 2y agoIt's just an information page about the cuts that have been made, 404 could have reported this to the admins first but needed the clicks...
- Trasmatta 2y agoNah, this is an important story about how incompetent the developers are who have taken it upon themselves to dismantle the US federal government.
- jpcom 2y agoIt's just an information page about spending cuts, everyone in the thread is overreacting and embellishing.
- Trasmatta 2y agoIt's not an overreaction. It's a demonstration of how incompetent and lackadaisical the developers are that have been given totally free reign over government systems and data. If anything this thread is underreacting. DOGE is an autocratic power grab, and there's immense risk of damage, whether intentionally or through incompetence.
- jasondigitized 2y agoThe same dudes who stood up this page are now writing COBOL to determine what cuts to make. Sounds like a great outcome.
- thewanderer1983 2y agohttps://balajis.com/p/americas-175-trillion-problem https://balajis.com/p/americas-175-trillion-problem Might have something to do with all this.
- SXX 2y ago> 8) Less sanction efficiency than ever > So according to the World Bank (not a Russian source!), Russia just flipped Japan to become the fourth largest global economy in GDP-by-PPP: After reading this line you can easily identify that author is either propagandist or moron. This is how Russia "increased GDP": 1 - Paid to restore tons of USSR weaponry garbage to just burn it yesterday. 2 - Funded building of new weaponry that will be burned today. 3 - Moved 5-10% of population to "military economy" building some military crap that have no other use other than get burned tomorrow. 4 - Took 300,000 random people out of real economy via forced mobilization and thrown them on frontlines. 5 - Hired 500,000+ poor or destitute people who had annual salary of $3600. Hired them for $2000 / month and paid them out $40,000 sign up bonus to go die on frontlines. 6 - Killed at least 100,000 of them and paid out $50,000 for each dead body to a family. 7 - Made like another 200,000+ of cripples that wont be able to work like until they die. So more spending. And in process doubled mass of local currency in economy from 2022 from 65 trillion rubles to 117 trillions. Economy is booming!
- CapricornNoble 2y agoYour post is more a criticism of including military spending in GDP, not anything particular to Russia's GDP-PPP calculation.
- gamacodre 2y agoI could be wrong, but my impression is that GDP is usually thought of (by non-economists) as a trailing index that has some sustainability baked in, by inertia if nothing else. Military spending would normally track reasonably well with that. What Russia is doing... doesn't sound sustainable.
- zombiwoof 2y agoIt’s all bluffing and posturing and smoke and mirrors Is that really how Elon became the President :)
- xyst 2y agoWonder if the pitchforks will come out this year or the next? So many programs and jobs have been gutted so the orange man and his kleptocracy cabinet can get their $4.5T in tax cuts for the ultra wealthy [1] I’m not impacted but this shit is really tiring. It’s painful to see American public be so ignorant and buy into the neoclassical economic lies. [1] https://apnews.com/article/house-republicans-budget-blueprint-trump-tax-cuts-ff2bddf31f4e7cb0928139072392a091 https://apnews.com/article/house-republicans-budget-blueprin...
- jpcom 2y agoUnauthorized access or modification of any government website, even if it is left openly accessible, is illegal under laws such as the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) in the U.S.
- boredatoms 2y agoThats lucky, only the US is able to access the internet
- ethbr1 2y agoHack the planet.
- taco_emoji 2y agowell then, good thing they're gutting the law enforcement agencies
- ldoughty 2y agoThe DOGE website currently does not have an acceptable use policy. Modification of the site is as unauthorized as access to the site -- undefined.
- jpcom 2y agoThe domain ends in dot gov
- rs186 2y agoRussians, who happen to also have Internet access, are definitely afraid of violating CFAA.
- LastTrain 2y agoIs it a government website?
- dfedbeef 2y agoOh now you want laws
- insane_dreamer 2y agoTrump/Elon fascism/heroism (depending on your point of view) aside, one thing that concerns me is how quickly is it possible to decide that 1000 employees at a place like the Department of Energy, including 300 at the National Nuclear Security Administration, can be dismissed without any impact on the effectiveness of these agencies. Even if you do believe that these agencies are bloated with workers who are doing "unnecessary" work, which is possible, it seems very unprudent to make cuts so quickly. And who is qualified to make these decisions? Elon? Some Tesla or SpaceX engineer who wrote some code and put up a website? Come on. WTF do they know about how all these agencies operate and the downstream effects? You think they're taking the time to really think it through? Now it's possible that prior to taking office, Trump had people with deep understanding of government operations go through everything, and really think things through, and prepare a list of jobs that could be cut without any impact, but if that is the case, it's never been said. Given who Trump has around him to lead these agencies (McMahon for Dept of Ed? An Oil and Gas Lobbyist for BLM? Really?) that doesn't seem likely. Move fast and break things works fine for a start-up, and might even be fine for more cultural type stuff ("DEI"), but Dept of Energy? It's like firing two-thirds of your sysadmins because "well, we haven't had any issues with our servers lately, and no breaches, so those people must not be needed".
- pizzafeelsright 2y agoI have been waiting 30 years for this to happen so I am excited while remaining optimistic. If the systems and Nation is as fragile we have bigger problems than the Chaos Monkey unleashed at the Federal level. Do people think Nuclear reactors will go unmanaged or Prisoners will go unfed? I suppose it is possible and time will tell. We were lied to by the Government. The new administration may be lying as well. I think we will all learn a lot. Considering the powers that be attempted to remove the current President through kinetic means I would imagine he is going to move as fast as possible.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoThe “powers that be tried to remove the current President” , not sure who those powers are (please spare me the “deep state” nonsense I expect higher order thinking here), but Trump attempted a violent overthrow of a democratic election. If you’re okay with that, then you and I have very different ideas of what democracy is. Coincidentally I’ve been hugely critical of the US government (regardless of party) most of my life, especially US foreign policy and military, and inherently like the idea of a shake up a la Young Turks style. But all that aside democratic ideals are the only thing that makes the US better than China or Russia, and Trump lost what little credibility he had left as someone who upholds democracy when he tried to stay in power 4 years ago and then doubled-down by pardoning the rioters. And that, my friend, trumps everything else.
- lowbloodsugar 2y agoI wonder if Trump ordered all the F22s to be flown into the ground, the aircraft carriers to be run aground, would anyone do anything? What about blowing up all the government buildings? How does Musk get to destroy millions of dollars of investment? These are all government assets. What the fuck is going on here?
- IAmGraydon 2y agoWhat the fuck indeed. And where the fuck are the people who are supposed to stop this?
- dragonwriter 2y ago> What the fuck indeed. And where the fuck are the people who are supposed to stop this? Which people? The paramount officers of the executive branch? They actively support it. They quasi-independent inspectors-general in the executive branch departments? Those in areas of concern have been (fairly blatantly illegally) fired, and in at least one case physically ejected by security personnel. The majority of both houses of Congress? They at least tacitly support it out of partisan loyalty. The courts? They’be issued orders, but ultimately rely on executive compliance or a different part of the executive enforcing those orders, and see “the paramount officers of the executive branch...”, previously. The electorate? They voted in the people supporting it in the executive and legislature. A sufficient number of safeguards have failed that there is likely no effective recourse within the system, and none of those failed safeguards are likely to reset into their functional state without some extreme force being applied to change their present direction.
- foxglacier 2y agoMusk has said that he like Xavier Milei's way of "deleting" government departments without too much investigation of their importance because if they're important, you can always put them back. He's probably taking a similar approach with DOGE. Some researchers and aid organizations lose their funding today but if they really are important and not just grift, they or their successors will probably get it back later. This isn't like social welfare where people might starve if their regular payment is stopped. Nobody's going to starve if research funding is cut. Researchers might have to get another job but that's an expected and normal part of life, especially for academics.
- JackYoustra 2y agoWell, except for everyone on USAID food, NIH funded trials, god I can go on. Just because you don't know precisely what you're cutting doesn't mean it's not important.
- klipt 2y agoYou can't just turn people off and on again like computers and expect them to carry on as before. You cut funding for cancer trials people are already enrolled in, people die. You cut funding for HIV drugs, patients' viral loads go up. Even if you put the funding back before they die, their viruses have already evolved resistance to the drugs they used to be on. You cut military aid to US allies, those countries learn the US isn't a reliable ally. Soft power centuries in the making evaporates, just like that.
- cindybrey 2y ago[flagged]
- cindybrey 2y ago[flagged]
- 8bitsrule 2y agoWell, they did claim they were transparent. Transparently juvenile. Befits the plan.
- aqueueaqueue 2y agoI am wondering if it would have been more of an effect to instead of this add some DEI trolling ... April 1st level of foolery so people think it is real and then get Twitter riled up on it.
- KoolKat23 2y agoSorry off topic, but isn't that x.com plastered on every single post not a flagrant conflict of interest? I mean other government sites subtly have a link to social media hidden somewhere and from multiple platforms basically x.com and Meta.
- Galanwe 2y agoMy thought exactly... When Musk was asked about potential conflict of interest he basically replied "Of course not, we're transparent and document everything on X"...
- Terr_ 2y agoOh, absolutely, but Republican legislators have decided that it's OK for the federal government to arbitrarily pick economic winners and losers now.
- hayst4ck 2y agoI'm on your side, but that's not a good argument. Nancy Pelosi openly stated she has a right to be financially entangled with the companies she regulates. At least 60% of the democratic party is firmly pro-oligarch, too. Just like 2 or 3 republicans get to performatively dissent on unpopular votes, Democrat resistance is largely performative, too. Those economic winners and losers are also campaign donors. Citizen's United, the ruling that made America structurally a plutocracy, happened under Obama.
- sanderjd 2y agoI don't see how this undermines the argument. That's all bad too. It's consistent with the argument, not contradicting it.
- iinnPP 2y agoIt's an argument against the conclusion. When everyone is yelling "don't let side Y do Z because that will allow W." This is why. It's a logical fallacy until you're talking to a person who's argument didn't ever change.
- temporallobe 2y agoTime to lay off low performers!
- smsm42 2y agoSo, responsible disclosure isn't a thing anymore?
- kstrauser 2y agoResponsible disclosure is for researchers in it for more than the lulz. In practical terms, do you think there’s a nonzero chance Musk would give rewards or credit for the report? I wouldn’t do that because I don’t want a felony. I could see some 16 year old working for their their chance at glory.
- smsm42 2y agoResponsible disclosure is not about rewards. And I am not surprised some 16 years old doesn't care. I am more surprised HN ctowd doesn't seem to even mention it. 16 years old can learn, but only if there's a culture to teach them.
- kstrauser 2y agoI think that’s confusing “is” with “ought”. We ought to teach the people around us to be responsible. If my team, or my kid, or my friends, or anyone else nearby told me they found something like this, I’d explain why they should report it through proper channels. But I also understand why this would be an enormous temptation for mischief. Should they have reported it another way, ideally one that wouldn’t put them up for CFAA charges? Yeah! Am I the slightest bit surprised someone thought it’s be more fun to deface this one particular site with its especially crappy security? No, not at all! (Also, “responsible disclosure” itself is hugely controversial. It’s most often used by corporations who’d prefer that the vuln is never, ever disclosed.)
- smsm42 2y agoSure, there's temptation. Just as goods being laid out on shelves in the store is a big temptation to steal them and not pay. Am I surprised that some people shoplift? No, but that doesn't make their behavior correct or commendable. And the proper response to learning that somebody steals from shops is "this is bad, you should feel bad about this and should stop doing it immediately" not "stupid store, how dare they not to lock things up properly!". Yes, this does not and will not prevent 100% of theft, because some people are sociopathic enough to not care about (or even enjoy) social disapproval, but it will make a society where theft is not encouraged, and for people who are not thieves it's better to live in such a society. In the same manner, it's better to live in a society where responsible disclosure is a norm, and to create this norm, it must be culturally enforced. It will not prevent sociopaths from violating it from time to time, but having the norm is better than not having it. > “responsible disclosure” itself is hugely controversial. It’s most often used by corporations who’d prefer that the vuln is never, ever disclosed. It is sometimes used like that, but it is nowhere near "most often". Most often, the responsible disclosure results in exactly what it is meant for - fixing the vulnerability and improving security without harming anyone. And supporting this as cultural norm would make such cases even more frequent.
- jpcom 2y agoYou're all overreacting. This is a poster for a government agency. https://xkcd.com/932/ https://xkcd.com/932/
- talldayo 2y agoRelative to the XKCD, this is like if someone found out you could vandalize hundreds of thousands of posters and publish it under a US federal government website using an REST API. Feds getting DDOSed? Nothing new. Public read/write access to a government distributed resource? That needs to be taken offline as a matter of public security.
- Executor 2y ago[flagged]
- defrost 2y agoIs there any evidence that random non site maintainers can push data to this website other than the two examples pushed to the site by non site maintainers in front of witnesses and since viewed by many? Isn't that evidence enough that it is possible?
- SkiFreeWin3 2y agoExecutor -- "It's about time White people realize that the holocaust is used as a mind fuck to demoralize us and beat us down into submission." : https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=Executor https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=Executor Are you really looking for evidence?
- IAmGraydon 2y agoDoes anyone else see what’s really going on here? Naming a “government agency” after a meme coin? Wearing a hat in the Oval Office while talking over the (literally) sitting president? Elon is attempting to telegraph that he has no respect for the institutions of our country. Why do you think Trump did something as petty as renaming the Gulf of Mexico? It’s a litmus test to see who will follow his most inane power plays. Today, it was put into action when they banned the AP from the Oval Office and AF1 for not bending the knee on this issue. This is far darker than Elon just running amok.
- braebo 2y agoCorrect. It is a fascist coup by neo-nazis.
- cmrdporcupine 2y agoI don't really disagree, but it's also becoming pointless to use these terms. Naming Trump/Musk as fascists is mostly correct but all this does is make his adherents question whether fascism is "really all that bad" (or reject with lines like "NAZIs were socialist [nonsense] and Trump isn't a socialist, ergo..." It's not enough to point out that Trump is fascist and therefore bad. You need to go the next step and say why fascism is bad. (Yes, we've gotten to this timeline, where we have to go back and actually describe why fascism is bad -- where the press is reporting on proposed ethnic cleansing in Gaza with statements like "outlandish plan" and "unrealistic" rather than naming it for what it is: a brutal and immoral plan to exterminate an entire people. Oh, and now we need to explain why that is actually a Really Awful Thing)
- sjsdaiuasgdia 2y agoWe have forgotten so much, and we're going to suffer incredibly for it. https://archive.is/g6ElI https://archive.is/g6ElI https://graphics.social/@metin/113865450624948092 https://graphics.social/@metin/113865450624948092
- mbs159 2y agoDo you really have to explain to people why fascism is bad? Isn't that taught in highschool?
- pyinstallwoes 2y ago“So rather than having a physical server or even something like Amazon Web Services, they’re deploying using Cloudflare Pages which supports custom domains.” So? Also, the distinction is moot.
- croes 2y agoThey claimed the savings site would show receipts not later than Valentine's Day https://www.doge.gov/savings https://www.doge.gov/savings Now it says "Receipts coming over the weekend!" Next time it's: The site is receipt-ready
- jimkleiber 2y agoOh you mean like FSD and other Musk promises?
- horns4lyfe 2y agoFSD is fantastic, not sure what the knock is here
- ModernMech 2y agoThe knock on "Full Self Driving" mode is it's not full self driving.
- phatskat 2y agoLooks like they started posting sole data - not sure what FPDS is but the documents all look rendered in OSX aqua theme lol. A lot of cuts looks “sensical” at first, until you realize things like “cutting magazine subscriptions” are more like “cutting financial news sources off from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau” or “not renewing reputable news subscriptions for people who really need to understand current events”. And then there’s a lot of DEI/diversity training cuts which feel targeted not at their war on Actually Being Nice to People, but at the groups those trainings help employees serve - cutting DEI for SNAP…so, there’s a reported (haven’t verified but allegedly from USDA data) 5 ethnic groups, as well as “race unknown”, that are enrolled in SNAP. Now imagine how you’d train people to understand, interact with, and help people in different ethnic backgrounds _who need this assistance_. I believe empathy and understanding are incredibly good skills to have in a role like this, and DEI helps train that - for all involved. The going notion on the right is that DEI is racist, and against white people, but it leaves out the idea that anyone non-white might also need this training? Like, DEI is about understanding differences, and then the right reads it as “understanding non-whites” and get offended that they even have to think about other cultures. And another cut funding for training on gender, and that training was for an office involved in tech and engineering…a professional field notoriously male-dominant for a long time. Again, it makes sense to me that this kind of training would be good, because I’ve heard the way people in tech talk and act towards women and queer folx, so yeah let’s have some training. These kinds of programs aren’t meant to tell people what to think - if they can’t empathetically interact with the world, work training won’t change that - but it will tell them that in a professional capacity they need to know how to interact and be productive. In business this is so you make more money, in government it’s how you help more people - including your own employees and also the communities you serve. So Trump is doing what he said, and the details are grim.
- chairmansteve 2y agoNot flagged? Amazing. Why not?
- jmatthews 2y agoIt is insane how tone deaf most of the comments are, jarring even. I forget how insular so much of the community is and I often make the mistake of equating intelligence, which exists here in spades, with critical thought. Understand that most of the sentiment expressed here is identical to the pre-digested mass media pablum intended for 100 IQ consumers. Think of mass media coverage of a subject you're an expert in and how horrifyingly wrong it typically is on so many levels, and try to rectify the two.
- sytelus 2y agoThe doge.gov website is just amazing. You can browse through the entire org chart of a typical government, average age of employees, avg salary in that department and so on. I hope they upload this data on GitHub and open sources for the future keeping. I am becoming fairly certain that all these will be removed when ruling party changes. Doge guys truly rock for doing this. And now, keep in mind that US govt is likely still way more "efficient" than most others on the planet.
- hliyan 2y agoI took a look at this (the "Workforce" section) and the "Regulations" section. A chill went down my spine. The first tool is purpose built for cutting jobs from areas that someone might consider "unprofitable". For example, you (and by "you" I mean an external party holding a scalpel) can drill down into Executive Branch > Cabinet Level Agencies > Department of Education > Office of the Secretary > Office Of Civil Rights, and think, "Hey, why does the DoE need an office of civil rights? Does it need a 570 headcount? We can save $78M by cutting out that entire office". I've seen this phenomenon in corporate, where cuts happen to areas that seem like they're not contributing to immediate profits, because their outcomes are long term, and there is enough organizational momentum to go forward for months, if not years, before their absence is noticed. For example, certain types of quality teams, technical/platform teams and employee safety/welfare related positions. Meanwhile the second section seems to be a tool for dismantling the regulatory system of the US. It is disingenuously called the "Unconstitutionality Index" ignoring the fact that a country cannot be run by a legislature and its acts alone, let alone a constitution.
- kmdrpc 2y agoIf the government has nothing to hide, it has nothing to fear.
- JKCalhoun 2y agoWondering why DOGE articles where we apparently are leaking classified info over the internet are being flagged. This for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43051135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43051135 (EDIT: Looks like others are wondering too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43050833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43050833)
- ImPostingOnHN 2y agoit's unfortunate to see negative posts about musk the nazi get flagged, while positive posts about musk the nazi get unflagged by mods
- dennis_jeeves2 2y agoWho here has listened to Elon/Trump extensively (and not opinions by news outlets) and has concluded that they are doing net damage? My opinion: Some mistakes will be made but remedied. But overall it's a net positive. As to how much of a positive it is, it need to be see. If the income tax, property tax (and other unavoidable taxes) are eliminated, I'd say America is greater again.