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GitHub cuts AI deals with Google, Anthropic
- altbdoor 2y agohttps://archive.is/Il4QM https://archive.is/Il4QM
- campbel 2y agoThis is pretty exciting. I'm a copilot user at work, but also have access to Claude. I'm more inclined to use Claude for difficult coding problems or to review my work as I've just grown more confident in its abilities over the last several months.
- ganoushoreilly 2y agoI too use Claude more frequently than OpenAi GPT4o. I think this is a two fold move for MS and I like it. Claude being more accurate / efficient for me says it's likely they see the same thing, win number 1. The second is with all the OpenAI drama MS has started to distance themselves over a souring relationship (allegedly). If so, this could be a smart move away tactfully. Either way, Claude is great so this is a net win for everyone.
- dartos 2y agoYeah, Claude consistently impresses me. A commenter on another thread mentioned it but it’s very similar to how search felt in the early 2000s. I ask it a question and get my answer. Sometimes it’s a little (or a lot) wrong or outdated, but at least I get something to tinker with.
- gonab 2y agoConversely I feel that the experience of searching has been degraded by a lot since 2016/17. My these is that, at this time, online spam increased by an order of magnitude
- TeaBrain 2y agoI don't think this is necessarily converse to what they said.
- bobthepanda 2y agoWinning the war against spam is an arms race. Spam hasn’t spent years targeting AI search yet.
- dageshi 2y agoI think it was the switch from desktop search traffic being dominant to mobile traffic being dominant, that switch happened around the end of 2016. Google used to prioritise big comprehensive articles on subjects for desktop users but mobile users just wanted quick answers, so that's what google prioritised as they became the biggest users. But also, per your point, I think those smaller simpler less comprehensive posts are easier to fake/spam than the larger more compreshensible posts that came before.
- state_less 2y agoOld style Google search is dead, folks just haven’t closed the casket yet. My index queries are down ~90%. In the future, we’ll look back at LLMs as a major turning point in how people retrieve and consume information.
- darepublic 2y agoI still prefer it over using llm. And I would be doubtful that llm search has major benefits over Google search imo
- imiric 2y agoI recently tried to ask these tools for help with using a popular library, and both GPT-4o and Claude 3.5 Sonnet gave highly misleading and unusable suggestions. They consistently hallucinated APIs that didn't exist, and would repeat the same wrong answers, ignoring my previous instructions. I spent upwards of 30 minutes repeating "now I get this error" to try to coax them in the right direction, but always ending up in a loop that got me nowhere. Some of the errors were really basic too, like referencing a variable that was never declared, etc. Finally, Claude made a tangential suggestion that made me look into using a different approach, but it was still faster to look into the official documentation than to keep asking it questions. GPT-4o was noticeably worse, and I quickly abandoned it. If this is the state of the art of coding LLMs, I really don't see why I should waste my time evaluating their confident sounding, but wrong, answers. It doesn't seem like much has improved in the past year or so, and at this point this seems like an inherent limitation of the architecture.
- geodel 2y agoWell it is volume business. <1% of advanced skill developers will find AI helper useless but for 99% of IT CRUD peddlers these tools are quite sufficient. All in all if employers cut down 15-20% of net development costs by reducing head counts, it will be very worthwhile for companies.
- WgaqPdNr7PGLGVW 2y agoI suspect it will go a different direction. Codebases are exploding in size. Feature development has slowed down. What might have been a carefully designed 100kloc codebase in 2018 is now a 500kloc ball of mud in 2024. Companies need many more developers to complete a decent sized feature than they needed in 2018.
- outworlder 2y agoIt's worse than that. Now the balls of mud are distributed. We get incredibly complex interactions between services which need a lot of infrastructure to enable them, that requires more observability, which requires more infrastructure...
- thelittleone 2y agoI'm the same, but had a lot of issues getting structured output from Anthropic. Ended up always writing response processors. Frustrated by how fragile that was, decided to try OpenAI structured outputs and it just worked and since they also have prompt caching now, it worked out very well for my use case. Anthropic's seems to have addressed the issue using pydantic but I haven't had a chance to test it yet. I pretty much use Anthropic for everything else.
- dangsux 2y ago[dead]
- JacobThreeThree 2y ago>The second is with all the OpenAI drama MS has started to distance themselves over a souring relationship (allegedly). If so, this could be a smart move away tactfully. I agree, this was a tactical move designed to give them leverage over OpenAI.
- a_wild_dandan 2y agoThe speed with which AI models are improving blows my mind. Humans quickly normalize technological progress, but it's staggering to reflect on our progress over just these two years.
- campbel 2y agoYes! I'm much more inclined to write one-off scripts for short manual tasks as I can usually get AI to get something useful very fast. For example, last week I worked with Claude to write a script to get a sense of how many PRs my company had that included comprehensive testing. This was borderline best done as a manual task previously, now I just ask Claude to write a short bash script that uses the GitHub CLI to do it and I've got a repeatable reliable process for pulling this information.
- unshavedyak 2y agoI rarely use LLMs for tasks but i love it for exploring spaces i would otherwise just ignore. Like writing some random bash script isn't difficult at all, but it's also so fiddly that i just don't care to do it. It's nice to just throw a bot at it and come back later. Loosely speaking. Still i find very little use from LLMs in this front, but they do come in handy randomly.
- unshavedyak 2y agoI wonder how long people will still protest in these threads that "It doesn't know anything! It's just an autocomplete parrot!" Because.. yea, it is. However.. it keeps expanding, it keeps getting more useful. Yea people and especially companies are using it for things which it has no business being involved in.. and despite that it keeps growing, it keeps progressing. I do find the "stochastic parrot" comments slowly dwindle in number and volume with each significant release, though. Still, i find it weirdly interesting to see a bunch of people be both right and "wrong" at the same time. They're completely right, and yet it's like they're also being proven wrong in the ways that matter. Very weird space we're living in.
- 2y ago
- pseudosavant 2y agoI use both Claude and ChatGPT/GPT-4o a lot. Claude, the model, definitely is 'better' than GPT-4o. But OpenAI provides a much more capable app in ChatGPT and an easier development platform. I would absolutely choose to use Claude as my model with ChatGPT if that happened (yes, I know it won't). ChatGPT as an app is just so far ahead: code interpreter, web search/fetch, fluid voice interaction, Custom GPTs, image generation, and memory. It isn't close. But Claude absolutely produces better code, only being beaten by ChatGPT because it can fetch data from the web to RAG enhance its knowledge of things like APIs. Claude's implementation of artifacts is very good though, and I'm sure that is what lead OpenAI to push out their buggy canvas feature.
- tanelpoder 2y agoAre there any good 3rd-party native frontend apps for Claude (on MacOS)? I mean something like ChatGPTs app, not an editor. I guess one option would be to just run Claude iPad app on MacOS.
- mike_hearn 2y agoYou can use https://recurse.chat/ https://recurse.chat/ if you have an Apple silicon Mac.
- greenavocado 2y agoOpen-WebUI doesn't support Claude natively (only through a series of hacks) but it is absolutely "THE" go-to for a ChatGPT Pro like experience (it is slightly better). https://github.com/open-webui/open-webui https://github.com/open-webui/open-webui
- TeMPOraL 2y agoIf you're willing to settle for a client-side only web frontend (i.e. talks directly with APIs of the models you use), TypingMind would work. It's paid, but it's good (see [0]), and I guess you could always go for the self-hosted version and wrap it in an Electron app - it's what most "native" apps are these days anyway (and LLM frontends in particular). -- [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41988306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41988306
- szundi 2y agoSwitch to Cursor with Claude backend and 5x immediately
- mtkd 2y agoOne service is not really enough -- you need a few to triangulate more often than not, especially when it comes to code using latest versions of public APIs Phind is useful as you can switch between them -- but only get a handful of o1 and Opus a day which I burn through quick at moment on deeper things -- Phind-405b and 3.5 Sonnet are decent for general use
- GraemeMeyer 2y agoNon-paywall alternative: GitHub Copilot will support models from Anthropic, Google, and OpenAI - https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/29/24282544/github-copilot-multi-model-anthropic-google-open-ai-github-spark-announcement https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/29/24282544/github-copilot-...
- thecopy 2y agoGreat news! This can only mean better suggestions. I expected little from Copilot, but now i find it indispensible. It is such a productivity multiplier.
- otteromkram 2y agoI removed it from windows and I'm still very productive. Probably moreso, since I don't have to make constant corrections. To each their own.
- Tiberium 2y agoGitHub Copilot and Microsoft Copilot are different products
- doublerabbit 2y agoSame difference. They both are glorified liberians.
- TimeBearingDown 2y agoLiberians seem quite useful, then! I’ve never been to Africa myself.
- timeon 2y agoJust don't lick your fingers.
- ipaddr 2y agoTheir branding is confusing
- hbn 2y agoIs Microsoft Copilot even a single product? It seems to me they just shove AI in random places throughout their products and call it Copilot. Which would make Github Copilot essentially another one of these places the branding shows up (even if it started there)
- thenobsta 2y agoI wonder what the rationale for this was internally. More OpenAI issues? competitiveness with Cursor? It seems good for the user to increase competition across LLM providers. Also ambiguous title. I thought GitHub canceled deals they had in the work. The article is clearly about making a deal, but it's unclear from the article's title.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- cma 2y agoCould be a fight against Llama, which excludes MS and Google in its open license (though I think has done separate pay deals with one or both of them). Meta are notably absent from this announcement.
- szundi 2y agoTry to fight the free good-enough haha. At least that’s the plan of Meta, who does not benefit as much selling this than using this
- Idiot211 2y agoI was at the keynote, Llama was featured in the Copilot models section and called out specifically, as was Mistral. I assume they just aren't at the point where they have the ability or want to host the compute to offer up Llama as an option as opposed to OpenAI, Anthropic and Google who are all offering the model as a service.
- cma 2y agoAh ok, I thought the deal was giving them access to Github data too without the anti scraping stuff. And had this article in mind: https://archive.ph/FvI9G https://archive.ph/FvI9G
- gavin_gee 2y agocursor is kicking vscode's butt because it has multi models. also MS is hedging bets against OpenAI. that relationship is not easy
- candiddevmike 2y agoWake me up when they support self hosted llama or openwebui. Wonder if we'll ever see a standard LLM API.
- hshshshshsh 2y agoIsn there no open source alternative? Like a plugin or something.
- SirMaster 2y agoNot for visual studio 2022 unfortunately.
- rihegher 2y agofor VScode you can use https://github.com/twinnydotdev/twinny https://github.com/twinnydotdev/twinny
- TiredOfLife 2y agohttps://www.continue.dev/ https://www.continue.dev/ for autocomplete/chat https://github.com/cline/cline https://github.com/cline/cline for the agent thing
- internetter 2y ago> Wonder if we'll ever see a standard LLM API. At this point its just the OpenAI API
- aimazon 2y ago"cuts" has to be the worse word choice in this context, it sounds like they're terminating deals rather than creating them.
- breck 2y ago"inks"
- Jerrrrrrry 2y agois there a slim chance at a title change? or a fat chance?
- scinadier 2y agoCommon english lexicon should cut ties with the phrase "cut a deal"
- justsocrateasin 2y agoYeah I agree, could be confusing to non native speakers though. It's a weird idiom.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mattlondon 2y agoCame here to say that - my reaction was initially "I didn't know they even had those deals to cut them!"
- TiredOfLife 2y agoIt's up there with "drops" for word swith multiple different meanings
- tigerlily 2y agoIt cuts both ways.
- jddj 2y agoSensible. Big part of competitors' (eg. Aider, Cursor, I imagine also jetbrains) advantage was not being tied to one model as the landscape changed. After large MS OpenAI investment they could just as easily have put blinders on and doubled down.
- kyawzazaw 2y agoJetbrains is doing its own LLM
- a_wild_dandan 2y agoCursor is too! Mixing and matching specialized & flagship models is the way forward.
- yanis_t 2y agoIsn’t using big models like gpt-4o going to slow down the autocomplete?
- HyprMusic 2y agoI think they mean for the chat and code editing features.
- 7thpower 2y agoI wonder if this is an example of the freedom of being an arms length subsidiary or foreshadowing to a broader strategy shift within Microsoft.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- neevans 2y agoActually excited 2M context window will be useful in this case
- mansoor_ 2y agoI wonder how this will affect latency,
- JimDabell 2y agoAnthropic’s article: https://www.anthropic.com/news/github-copilot https://www.anthropic.com/news/github-copilot GitHub’s article: https://github.blog/news-insights/product-news/bringing-developer-choice-to-copilot/ https://github.blog/news-insights/product-news/bringing-deve... Google Cloud’s article: https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/gemini-models-on-github-copilot https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/g... Weird that it wasn’t published on the official Gemini news site here: https://blog.google/products/gemini/ https://blog.google/products/gemini/ Edit: GitHub Copilot is now also available in Xcode: https://github.blog/changelog/2024-10-29-github-copilot-code-completion-in-xcode-is-now-available-in-public-preview/ https://github.blog/changelog/2024-10-29-github-copilot-code... Discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41987404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41987404
- vault 2y agoI wonder if behind the choice of calling the human user "mona" there's an Italian XD https://i.imgur.com/z01xgfl.png https://i.imgur.com/z01xgfl.png
- throwup238 2y agoIt's Mona Lisa the Octocat: https://github.com/monatheoctocat https://github.com/monatheoctocat
- lelandfe 2y agoHah, TIL. https://cameronmcefee.com/work/the-octocat/ https://cameronmcefee.com/work/the-octocat/
- patates 2y agoGoogle Cloud's article is from tomorrow? https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/gemini-models-on-github-copilot https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/ai-machine-learning/g... https://i.postimg.cc/RVWSfpvs/grafik.png https://i.postimg.cc/RVWSfpvs/grafik.png
- ninininino 2y agoThe threat of anti-trust creates a win for consumers, this is an example of why we need a strong FTC.
- hedora 2y agoThis is a standard “commoditize your complement” play. It’s in GitHub / Microsoft’s best interest to make sure none of the LLMs become dominant. As long as that happens, their competitors light money on fire to build the model while GitHub continues to build / defend its monopoly position. Also, given that there are already multiple companies building decent models, it’s a pretty safe bet Microsoft could build their own in a year or two if the market starts settling on one that’s a strategic threat. See also: “embrace, extend, extinguish” from the 1990’s Microsoft antitrust days.
- gdiamos 2y agoGithub was an early OpenAI design partner. OpenAI developed a custom LLM for them. It's so interesting that even after that early mover advantage they have to go back to the foundation model providers. Does this mean that future tech companies have no choice but to do this?
- dartos 2y agoI see no reason why GitHub wouldn’t use fine tuned models from google or anthropic. I think their version of gpt-3.5 was a fine tune as well. I doubt they had a whole model from scratch made just for them.
- a_wild_dandan 2y agoYes, because transfer learning works. A specialized model for X will be subsumed by a general model for X/Y/Z as it becomes better at Y/Z. This is why models which learn other languages become better at English. Custom models still have use cases, e.g. situations requiring cheaper or faster inference. But ultimately The Bitter Lesson holds -- your specialized thing will always be overtaken by throwing more compute at a general thing. We'll be following around foundation models for the foreseeable future, with distilled offshoots bubbling up/dying along the way.
- kingkongjaffa 2y ago> This is why models which learn other languages become better at English. Do you have a source for that, I'd love to learn more!
- a_wild_dandan 2y agoEvaluating cross-lingual transfer learning approaches in multilingual conversational agent models[1] Cross-lingual transfer learning for multilingual voice agents[2] Large Language Models Are Cross-Lingual Knowledge-Free Reasoners[3] An Empirical Study of Cross-Lingual Transfer Learning in Programming Languages[4] That should get you started on transfer learning re. languages, but you'll have more fun personally picking interesting papers over reading a random yahoo's choices. The fire hose of papers is nuts, so you'll never be left wanting. [1] https://www.amazon.science/publications/evaluating-cross-lingual-transfer-learning-approaches-in-multilingual-conversational-agent-models https://www.amazon.science/publications/evaluating-cross-lin... [2] https://www.amazon.science/blog/cross-lingual-transfer-learning-for-multilingual-voice-agents https://www.amazon.science/blog/cross-lingual-transfer-learn... [3] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2406.16655v1 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2406.16655v1 [4] https://arxiv.org/pdf/2310.16937v2 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2310.16937v2
- rnmaker 2y agoIf you want to destroy open source completely, the more models the better. Microsoft's co-opting and infiltration of OSS projects will serve as a textbook example of eliminating competition in MBA programs. And people still support it by uploading to GitHub.
- dartos 2y ago> And people still support it by uploading to GitHub. It’s slowly, but noticeably moving from GitHub to other sites. The network effect is hard to work against.
- fhdsgbbcaA 2y agoMigration is on my todo list, but it’s non trivial enough I’m not sure when I’ll ever have cycles to even figure out the best option. Gitlab? Self-hosted Git? Go back to SVN? A totally different platform? Truth be told, Git is a major pain in the ass anyway and I’m very open to something else.
- kubanczyk 2y agoA classic case of perfect being the enemy of the good. The answers are Gitlab and jj, cheers.
- mike_ivanov 2y agoMercurial was better than git IMO, at least for smaller projects.
- amelius 2y ago> If you want to destroy open source completely The irony is of course that open source is what they used to train their models with.
- guerrilla 2y agoThat was the point. They are laundering IP. It's the long way around the GPL, allowing then to steal.
- mmiyer 2y agoSeems to be part of Microsoft’s hedging of its OpenAI bet, ever since Sam Altman’s ousting: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/17/technology/microsoft-openai-partnership-deal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/17/technology/microsoft-open...
- mk_chan 2y agoThe reason here is Microsoft is trying to make copilot a platform. This is the essential step to moving all the power from OpenAI to Microsoft. It would grant Microsoft leverage over all providers since the customers would depend on Microsoft and not OpenAI or Google or Anthropic. Classic platform business evolution at play here.
- didip 2y ago[flagged]
- renewiltord 2y agoInteresting. Humans love memetic patterns so much we’re like chickens with lines drawn in front. We can’t help but say the thing. Like the Nam Shub of Enki it’s entered our minds and now reproduces in all sorts of contexts. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish we say now without thought. The virus breaks containment. Like fungus on an ant it makes us summit and then spew it forth on others - self—modifying to maximize life span. What a creature, the meme.
- pseudosavant 2y agoAmazing that even when they are giving users maximal choice, even including their arch-nemesis Google, they are evil? Would Microsoft be better if you could only use Microsoft models?
- Rhapso 2y agoThey have established a precedent of embracing open standards and markets only long enough to kill them.
- pseudosavant 2y agoI'd love to see a list of the open standards they've embraced and killed. Your argument is on a weak foundation if it is based on Internet Explorer in the pre IE8 days (15+ years ago), or anything older than that. Frankly, Microsoft hasn't had enough influence to kill any open standard since the height of their dominance in the early 2000s. They aren't that important. I mean, market forces made them adopt Chromium even.
- rogerkirkness 2y agoCommoditize your compliment baby.
- dfried 2y agoAnyone doing strategic business with Microsoft would do well to remember what they did to Nokia.
- TheRealPomax 2y agoYou mean waste a few billion on buying a company that couldn't compete with the market anymore because the iphone made "even an idiot should be able to use this thing, and it should be able to do pretty much everything" a baseline expectation with an OS/software experience to match? Nokia failed Nokia, and then Microsoft gave it a shot. And they also couldn't make it work. (sure, that glosses over the whole Elop saga, but Microsoft didn't buy a Nokia-in-its-prime and killed it. They bought an already failing business and even throwing MS levels of resources at it couldn't turn it around)
- muststopmyths 2y agoMan, as a windows phone mourner the only disagreement i have with this comment is that they threw anywhere near MS level of resources at Nokia. Satya never wanted the acquisition and nuked WP as soon as he could.
- ahoka 2y agoI can see why people would think that, but Microsoft did not buy Nokia.
- SSLy 2y agoThey did bought the (then) richer half of the company. The other is now trying to get out of the rot.
- TheRealPomax 2y agotime to revisit the news from back in the day, because they very much did, and the details are an exercise in "wow, how much do you want to split hairs?".
- xnx 2y agoFrankly surprised to see GitHub (Microsoft) signing a deal with their biggest competitor, Google. It does give Microsoft some good terms/pricing leverage over OpenAI, though I'm not sure what degree Microsoft needs that given their investment in OpenAI. GitHub Spark seems like the most interesting part of the announcement.
- miyuru 2y agoOn the anthropic blog it say it uses AWS Bedrock. > Claude 3.5 Sonnet runs on GitHub Copilot via Amazon Bedrock, leveraging Bedrock’s cross-region inference to further enhance reliability. https://www.anthropic.com/news/github-copilot https://www.anthropic.com/news/github-copilot
- xyst 2y agoGot to cut deals before the AI bust pops, VC money and interest vanishes and interest rates go up. Also diversifying is always a good option. Even if one cash cow gets nuked from orbit, you have 2 other companies to latch onto
- kingkongjaffa 2y ago> interest rates go up This is kind of a cynical tech startup take: - ragging on VC's - calling something a bubble Interest rates are on their way back down btw. https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/monetary20240918a.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/mone... https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bank-england-cut-bank-rate-475-nov-7-say-all-72-economists-polled-2024-10-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bank-england-cut-bank-rate-... Funding has looked to be running out a few times for OpenAI specifically, but most frontier model development is reasonably well funded still.
- njtransit 2y agoIf interest rates are on their way down, why has the 10Y treasury yield increased 50 points over the last month? https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/US10Y https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/US10Y
- kortilla 2y agoBecause they previously decreased more under the expectation of another half point cut by the fed. Stronger economic indicators have cut the expectation for steep rate cuts so treasuries are declining.
- warkdarrior 2y agoIt also dropped 40 points over the last six months.
- FactKnower69 2y ago>Interest rates are on their way back down btw. completely wrong, where have you been the past month? 10Y t-notes are actually UP after the fed's hysterical 50 basis point cut lol
- tqwhite 2y agoI wish people would stop posting Bloomberg paywall links.
- greenavocado 2y agoI replaced ChatGPT Plus with hosted nvidia/Llama-3.1-Nemotron-70B-Instruct for coding tasks. Nemotron produces good code. The cost different is massive. Nemotron is available for $0.35 per Mtoken in and out. ChatGPT is considerably more expensive.
- greenavocado 2y agoJust kidding. Qwen 2.5 Instruct is superior. Nemotron is overfit to pass benchmarks.
- shagie 2y agoElseweb with GitHub Copilot today... Call for testers for an early access release of a Stack Overflow extension for GitHub Copilot -- https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/432029 https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/432029
- rvz 2y agoYou mean "Microsoft" cuts deals with Google and Anthropic on top of their already existing deals with Mistral, Inflection whilst also having an exclusivity deal with OpenAI? This is an extend to extinguish round 4 [0], whilst racing everyone else to zero. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41908456 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41908456
- sprkv5 2y agoOne of the reasons that comes to my mind is - it could have been problematic look for only Microsoft (Copilot) to have access to GitHub for training AI models - à la monopolizing a data treasure trove. With anti-competitive legislation catching up to Google to open up its Play Store, this could have been one of key reasons why this deal came about.
- poincaredisk 2y agoCopilot can choke on my AGPL code on GitHub, that was used for training their proprietary models. I'm still salty about this, sadly looks like the world has largely moved on.
- azemetre 2y agoIt really feels like a digital form of colonialism; they come in take everything, completely disregard the rules, ignore intellectual copyright laws (while you still have to obey them), but when you speak out against this suddenly you are a luddite that doesn't care about human progress.
- mnau 2y agoIt's especially distasteful when we consider lawsuits like Epic vs Silicon Knights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Knights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Knights > Silicon Knights had "deliberately and repeatedly copied thousands of lines of Epic Games' copyrighted code, and then attempted to conceal its wrongdoing by removing Epic Games' copyright notices and by disguising Epic Games' copyrighted code as Silicon Knights' own > Epic Games prevailed against Silicon Knights' lawsuit, and won its counter-suit for $4.45 million on grounds of copyright infringement, > following the loss of the court case, Silicon Knights filed for bankruptcy
- baq 2y agoIf it doesn't work, oh well, you'll get VC money for something else. If it works, the lawyers will figure it out.
- 2y ago
- yieldcrv 2y agoSeems to be trying to get its lunch money back from CodeGPT plugin and similar ones
- kleton 2y agoA case where "cut" is its own antonym, and its unclear which sense is meant from the headline alone.
- echoangle 2y agoI just had the same problem and thought there was a deal that was ended now.
- jacobgkau 2y agoYeah, I was expecting outrage when I first clicked into the thread to glance at the comments, and then I was like "wait, why are people saying it's exciting?"
- keiferski 2y agoDon’t think I’ve ever seen the word “cut” used with “deal” in a negative sense. Cutting a deal always means you made a deal, not that one ended.
- JulianChastain 2y agoWhat about "we were cut from the deal"? It seems like you could make a phrase in which 'cut' means "to exclude"
- keiferski 2y agoDoesn’t sound natural to me, and I couldn’t find any examples online using that phrasing to mean someone was removed from a deal. You can be cut from a team, though.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- shagie 2y agoCutting Deals and Striking Bargains: The History of an Idiom https://web.archive.org/web/20060920230602/https://www.csub.edu/~bjones/cut-deal.txt https://web.archive.org/web/20060920230602/https://www.csub.... By way of "Why do we 'cut' a deal?" https://english.stackexchange.com/q/284233 https://english.stackexchange.com/q/284233 --- "Cuts " ... leads to the initial parsing of "cuts all ties with" or similar "severs relationship with". When with additional modifiers between "cuts" and "deal" the "cuts deal with" becomes harder to recognize as the "forms a deal with" meaning of the phase.
- phreeza 2y agoI guess this goes to show, nobody really has a moat in this game so far. Everyone is sprinting like crazy but I don't see anyone really gaining a sustainable edge that will push out competitors.
- marban 2y agoIn AI, the only real moat is seeing how many strategic partnerships you can announce before anyone figures out they’re all with the same people.
- selimthegrim 2y agoClaude and Carol and Carol and Carol?
- dgellow 2y agoI’ve been using Cody from Sourcegraph to have access to other models, if copilot offers something similar I guess I will switch back to it. I find copilot autocomplete to be more often on point than Cody, but the chat experience with Cody + Sonnet 3.5 is way ahead in may experience
- sqs 2y agoContext is a huge part of the chat experience in Cody, and we're working hard to stay ahead there as well with things like OpenCtx (https://openctx.org https://openctx.org) and more code context based on the code graph (defs/refs/etc.). All this competition is good for everyone. :)
- dgellow 2y agoYour vscode and rider integrations are fantastic, love the different ways to add context to the chat
- metadaemon 2y agoI'm a hypocrite because I'm now currently paying for Cody due to their integration with the new OpenAI o1-preview model. I find this model to be mind blowing and it's made me actually focus on the more mundane tasks that come with the job.
- sincerecook 2y agoI replaced chatgpt with mybrain 1.0 and I'm seeing huge improvements in accuracy and reasoning performance!
- nforgerit 2y agoAlso energy efficiency significantly improved, no?
- kingkongjaffa 2y agoIf I'm already paying Anthropic can I use this without paying github as well?
- mmaunder 2y agoHistory has shown being first to market isn't all it's cut out to be. You spend more, it's more difficult creating the trail others will follow, you end up with a tech stack that was built before tools and patterns stabilized and you've created a giant super highway for a fast-follower. Anyone remember MapQuest, AltaVista or Hotmail? OpenAI has some very serious competition now. When you combine that with the recent destabilizing saga they went through along with commoditization of models with services like OpenRouter.ai, I'm not sure their future is as bright as their recent valuation indicates.
- sebzim4500 2y agoClaude is better than OpenAI for most tasks, and yet OpenAI has enormously more users. What is this, if not first mover advantage?
- szundi 2y agoClaude cannot “research” stuff on the web and provide results like 4o does in 5 secs like “which is the cheapest Skoda car and how much”
- mmaunder 2y agoJust wanted to add a note to this. Tool calling - particularly to source external current data - is something that's had the big foundational LLM providers very nervous so they've held back on it, even though it's trivial to implement at this point. But we're seeing it rapidly emerge with third party providers who use the foundational APIs. Holding back tool calling has limited the complex graph-like execution flows that the big providers could have implemented on their user facing apps e.g. the kind of thing that Perplexity Pro has implemented. So they've fallen behind a bit. They may catch up. If they don't they risk becoming just an API provider.
- ethbr1 2y agoI'm hoping a lot of the graph-like execution flow engines are still in stealth mode, as believe that's where we'll start to see truly useful AI. Mass data parsing and reformatting is useful... but building agents that span existing APIs / tools is a lot more exciting to me. I.e. IFTTT, with automatic tool discovery, parameter mapping, and output parsing handled via LLM
- holografix 2y agoCan we change the title to “GitHub _signs_ deals with Google, Anthropic” ? The original got me thinking it already had deals it was getting out of
- eddd-ddde 2y agoI agree, very weird choice of words.
- kelnos 2y agoTo "cut a deal" is a common (American?) English idiom meaning to "make a deal". But agree that it's better to avoid using idioms on a site that has many visitors for whom English is not their first language.
- archgoon 2y agoDo you mean that Bloomberg should have used a different title or Hacker News should have modified the title?
- pxeger1 2y agoI think Bloomberg’s at fault: “cut a deal” isn’t usually that ambiguous because it’s clear which state transition is more likely. But here it’s plausible they could’ve been ending some existing training-data-sharing agreement, or that they were making a new different deal. Also the fact it’s pluralised here makes it different enough to the most common form for it to be a bit harder to notice the idiom. But since we can’t change the fact they used that title, I would like HN to change it now.
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- lofaszvanitt 2y agoThank you people for contributing to this free software ecosystem. Oh, you can't monetize your work? Your problem, not ours! Deals are made, but you, who provide your free code, we have zero monetization options for you on our github platform. Go pay for copilot which was trained on your data. I mean, this is the worst farce ever concocted. And people are oblivious what's happening...
- mnau 2y agoWe are not oblivious. We are powerless. Oracle could go toe to toe with Google and threaten multibillion fines over basically API and 11kLOC. As a open source developer, there is no way to match that.
- downrightmike 2y agoThat's a monopoly
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- Fairburn 2y ago1 point by Fairburn 0 minutes ago | prev | next | edit | delete [–] I have no doubts that Claude is serviceable from a coders perspective. But for me, as a paid user, I became tired of being told that I have to slow down and then be cut off while actively working on a product. When Anthropic addresses this, Ill add it back to my tools.
- wg0 2y agoThis only makes Copilot more competitive and price effective. Microsoft's business managers are smart.
- hi41 2y agoThat’s a strange usage of the word “cuts”. I thought GitHub terminated the deals with Google and Anthropic. It would be better if the title were GitHub signs AI deals instead of cuts.
- r00fus 2y agohttps://plainenglish.com/expressions/cut-a-deal/#:~:text=Today's%20phrase%20is%20“cut%20a,about%20the%20movie%20Darkest%20Hour https://plainenglish.com/expressions/cut-a-deal/#:~:text=Tod....
- gregschlom 2y agoI'm assuming you're not a native speaker? (I'm not) - "to cut a deal" is a fairly common idiom that means to reach and agreement.
- seoulmetro 2y ago"cut a deal" is an idiom. "cuts ____ deals" is not and more closely resembles the removal of deals related to ____.
- naniwaduni 2y agoAs an aside, "closing" and "concluding" a deal or sale also usually mean to successfully reach an agreement. It's more of a semantic quirk around deals than an isolated idiom.
- hi41 2y agoThat’s correct. Not a native speaker. I am not well versed with slang words. I am sometimes embarrassed because I speak as if they are words from a book instead of sounding like spoken words. Do you know how cuts came to mean that it’s a deal. For a non-native speaker it means the exact opposite thing as in “he cut a wire”. Language evolves in strange ways.
- samatman 2y ago"Cut a deal" is an idiom, not slang: it's appropriate language to use in a business context, for example. The origin is hazy, of the theories I've seen I consider this the best one: "deal" means both "an agreement" and "to distribute cards in a card game". The dealer, in the latter sense, first cuts the card deck then deals the card. "Cut and deal" -> "cut a deal". It could also be related to "cut a check", which comes from an era before perforated paper was widespread, when one would literally cut the check out of a book of checks.
- epolanski 2y agoYet another confirmation that AI models are nothing but commodities. There's no moat, none. I'm really curious how can any company building models hope to have any meaningful return from their billion dollars investments, when few people leaving and getting enough azure credits can get create a competitor in few months.
- thih9 2y agoI use cursor and its tab completion; while what it can do is mind blowing, in practice I’m not noticing a productivity boost. I find that ai can help significantly with doing plumbing, but it has no problems with connecting the pipes wrong. I need to double and triple check the updated code - or fix the resulting errors when I don’t do that. So: boilerplate and outer app layers, yes; architecture and core libraries, no. Curious, is that a property of all ai assisted tools for now? Or would copilot, perhaps with its new models, offer a different experience?
- MuffinFlavored 2y ago> in practice I’m not noticing a productivity boost. How can this be possible if you literally admit its tab completion is mindblowing? Isn't really good tab completion good enough for at least a 5% producitvity boost? 10%? 20%? Select line of code, prompt it to refactor, verify they are good, accept the changes
- m3kw9 2y agoIn experience, I always have to spend time to check and most times it doesn’t do what I need unless it’s very simple asks.
- thih9 2y ago> How can this be possible if you literally admit its tab completion is mindblowing? What about it makes it impossible? I’m impressed by what AI assistants can do - and in practice it doesn’t help me personally. > Select line of code, prompt it to refactor, verify they are good, accept the changes. It’s the “verify” part that I find tricky. Do it too fast and you spend more time debugging than you originally gained. Do it too slow and you don’t gain much time. There is a whole category of bugs that I’m unlikely to write myself but I’m likely to overlook when reading code. Mixing up variable types, mixing up variables with similar names, misusing functions I’m unfamiliar with and more.
- beepbooptheory 2y agoI think the essential point around impressive vs helpful sums up so much of the discourse around this stuff. Its all just where you fall on the line between "impressive is necessarily good" and "no it isn't".
- fifteen1506 2y agoPaywall; can't read legally.
- warkdarrior 2y agoYou can read legally, just need to pay first.
- ed_elliott_asc 2y agoI am excited about this as I use Claude for coding but what I really like about copilot is if you have a list of something random like: /* Col1 varchar not null, Col2 int null, Col3 int not nul*/ Then start doing something else like: | column | type | |—-| —-| | Col1 | varchar | Then copilot is very good at guessing the rest of the table. (This isn’t just sql to markdown it works whenever you want to repeat something using parts of another list somewhere in the same doc) I hope they continues as this has been a game changer for me as it is so quick, really great.
- johnyzee 2y ago> “The size of the Lego blocks that Copilot on AI can generate has grown [...] It certainly cannot write a whole GitHub or a whole Facebook, but the size of the building blocks will increase” Um, that would make it less capable, not more... /thatguy
- mococa 2y agoI don’t like using AI assistants in my editor; I prefer to keep it as clean as possible. So, I manually copy relevant parts of the code into ChatGPT, ask my question, and continue interacting until I get what I need. It’s a bit manual, but since I use GPT for other tasks, it’s convenient to have a single interface for everything.
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- qubitly 2y agoSo GitHub’s teaming up with Google, Anthropic, and OpenAI? Kinda feels Microsoft’s version of a ‘safety net’, but for who exactly? It’s hard not to wonder if this is actually about choice for the user or just insurance for Microsoft
- suyash 2y agoDoes this mean you need to be a paying user for Claude and Gemini or just with GitHub copilot?
- richardw 2y agoThis kind of thing is why I think Sam is often misjudged. You can’t fuck around in such a competitive market. If you go in all kumbaya you’ll get crushed by market forces. It’s rare for company/founder ideals to survive the market indefinitely. I think he’s iterated fast and the job is still very hard.
- chucke1992 2y agoThis Github purchase was incredible
- moondistance 2y agoMicrosoft is negotiating equity in OpenAI as part of the switch to a for-profit. Non-zero chance this is a negotiation flex.
- pavelboyko 2y agoI mentored junior SWE and CS students for years, and now using Claude as a coding assistant feels very similar. Yesterday, it suggested implementing a JSON parser from scratch in C to avoid a dependency -- and, unsurprisingly, the code didn’t work. Two main differences stand out: 1) the LLM doesn’t learn from corrections (at least not directly), and 2) the feedback loop is seconds instead of days. This speed is so convenient that it makes hiring junior SWEs seem almost pointless, though I sometimes wonder where we’ll find mid-level and senior developers tomorrow if we stop hiring juniors today.
- hypeatei 2y agoYears of experience doesn't correlate to a good developer either. I've seen senior devs using AI to solve impossible problems, for example asking it how to store an API key client side without leaking it...
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- al_borland 2y agoDoes speed matter when it's not getting better and learning from corrections? I think I'd rather give someone a problem and have them come back with something that works in a couple days (answering a question here or there), rather than spend my time doing it myself because I'm getting fast, but wrong, results that aren't improving from the AI. > though I sometimes wonder where we’ll find mid-level and senior developers tomorrow if we stop hiring juniors today. This is also a key point. While there is a lot of short term thinking these days, since people don't stick with companies like they used to. As a person who has been with my company for close to 20 years, making sure things can still run once you leave is important from a business perspective. Training isn't about today, it's about tomorrow. I've trained a lot of people, and doing it myself would always be faster in the moment. But it's about making the team better and making sure more people have more skill, to reduce single points of failure and ensure business continuity over the long-term. Not all of it pays off, but when it does, it pays off big.
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- xpe 2y agoAward for most ambiguous headline. (“cuts” can mean “initiates” or “terminates”!)
- zeroonetwothree 2y ago“Cut a deal” is a standard phrase with only one meaning
- nvader 2y agoBut when you make it "cut AI deal", that breaks the standard phrase and opens the door to alternative explanations. I initially thought this was a news article about the deal breaking up.
- AntiqueFig 2y agoI thought the same indeed.
- dankwizard 2y agoA word can have multiple meanings.
- corobo 2y agoYes but cuts deals, which is what the title says, is ambiguous. Those are some load bearing pluralisations right there.
- fabmilo 2y agoI also thought that they were ending some previous deal and not creating a new one.
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- TiredOfLife 2y agoSame with drops
- lifeisstillgood 2y agoI still think it’s worth emphasising - LLMs represent a massive capital absorber. Taking gobs of funding into your company is how you grow, how your options become more valuable, how your employees stay with you. If that treadmill were to break bad things happen. Search has been stuttering for a while - Google’s growth and investment has been flattening - at some point they absorbed all the worlds stored information. OpenAI showed the new growth - we need billions of dollars to build and the run the LLMs (at a loss one assumes) - the treadmill can keep going
- jmpeax 2y agoSo "cut a deal" means to make a deal rather than sever a deal?
- heavyset_go 2y agoIt does, and it was unclear to me, as well. It's a poor title IMO
- yowmamasita 2y agohttps://www.youtube.com/@IsmoComedian/videos https://www.youtube.com/@IsmoComedian/videos you'll like him
- Nition 2y agoThere's a similar problem with the word "cleave" which can mean both cut apart or stick together.
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- javaunsafe2019 2y agoI don’t know how people can claim such huge success using copilot and such. I also own a subscription and tried to use it for coding but all task from spring boot authentication configuration to aws policies and lambdas it failed horribly. Writing the code myself using proper documentation was the only option. I wonder if false information is written here in the comments section for certain reasons …
- simonw 2y agoYou need to spend time learning how to use it. This is difficult because there's no manual, and there's a widespread implication that it should just magically work well without you having to invest any effort in it. If you can figure out HOW to invest that effort it becomes really valuable. I wish I had good resources I could link you to here but I don't, which is a big part of the problem here.
- scott01 2y agoYou sound like you’ve had success using this tech for work. Can you tell more about your personal experience, please? I’ve tried ChatGPT a few times a year ago or so, but it was extremely frustrating, and I gave up.
- simonw 2y agoHere's my "How I use LLMs and ChatGPT" series: https://simonwillison.net/series/using-llms/ https://simonwillison.net/series/using-llms/ Also relevant is my ai-assisted-programming tag: https://simonwillison.net/tags/ai-assisted-programming/ https://simonwillison.net/tags/ai-assisted-programming/
- th0ma5 2y agoThese examples are not much different than tutorial regurgitation imo. I would not pass this off as solving the problems that programmers have in practice, imo.
- sha16 2y agoWhatever the motive, it's probably a smart move
- rr808 2y agoMy anecdote is we have Github Copilot at work and its often hit and miss. I often get out my phone and use chatgpt or claude to get better answers.
- CephalopodMD 2y agoI usually feel like i can confidently express a change I want in code faster and better than I can explain what I want an AI to do in English. Like if I have a good prompt, these tools work okay, but getting that prompt almost as hard as just writing the code itself often. Do others feel the same struggle?
- neodymiumphish 2y agoI’m positive my experience pales in comparison to yours, as I don’t actually code anything beyond the occasional single use script, but YES! I hate trying to explain the exact SQL result I’m looking for or some text modification I need to be able to throw together a CTE since I have read-only access and can’t even build a temp table.
- ec109685 2y agoGPT-4o usually does well with SQL. Did a query right first time using cte’s, array functions, table created on the fly in the query, etc. SQL syntax is fiddly so it’s nice to have a robot do it.
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- Kiro 2y agoYou learn how to effectively prompt it in a way where the AI can fill in the blanks. Sometimes the prompt is just a couple of words because I know that the AI will interpolate the rest by the context (getting the context right is crucial). However, even when I need to be verbose and have to spend a few minutes on a prompt it gives me code that would have taken half a day to write manually. You also need to learn how and when to split work into chunks. It's much less intuitive than one would think and is completely different than how you would split it for a human. You get to "know" the AI and what it needs in order to succeed with a task. LLMs have other problems though. The biggest problem for me is that it feels like I lose control of the codebase. I don't have the same mental mapping of the code.
- yapyap 2y agoCan’t say I’m surprised
- AIorNot 2y agoReviewing these conversations is like listening to horse and buggy manufacturers pooh-poohing automobiles: 1. they will scare the horses. a good team of horses is no match for funky 'automobile' 2. how will they be able to deal with our muddy, messy roads 3. their engines are unreliable and prone to breaking down stranding you in the middle and having to do it yourself.. 4. their drivers cant handle the speed, too many miles driven means unsafe driving.. we should stick to horses they are manageable. Meanwhile I'm watching a community of mostly young people building and using tools like copilot, cursor, replit, jacob etc and wiring up LLMs into increasingly more complex workflows. this is snapshot of the current state, not a reflection of the future- Give it 10 years
- crop_rotation 2y agoIt is hard to understand some phenomena if it stands to reduce your income. Even if the LLMs don't improve one bit from here and current state is froze, they are still too good and will be everywhere before we can finish talking of horses and automobiles.
- hhdhdbdb 2y agoLLMs make my job as a software engineer even more secure. Most of what I do is social and/or understand what is going on. LLMs are a tool to reduce mental load when in VSCode on some tasks. They are like the pilot's autopilot. LLM takes my job then we have reached the singularity. Jobs wont matter anymore at that point.
- wruza 2y agoA reminder that we basically built cities around the cars, cause they still need fuel, break and drown in the mud. What is your similar plan for LLMs? Analogies always end somewhere, I’m just curious where yours does.
- bgarbiak 2y agoWell, we’ll build all sort of APIs for LLMs to plug into.
- pyeri 2y agoCall me eccentric but the only true or utilitarian use case I've found for AI so far is chatgpt. Rest all appear to be shiny toys just trying to bask in the AI glory but none solve any real human problem?
- akmittal 2y agoChatGPT is just good at marketing and they were the first one with good model. Claude is equally good or better
- globular-toast 2y agoEven ChatGPT is rubbish. Try to figure out something you couldn't find in a book and it will end up contradicting itself before long. If it gets it right that just means you could have found it in a book. I've been immersed in the internet my whole life and I still think books are the best source of knowledge. Curation and editing are what we need more of.
- albert_e 2y agoInterestingly GitHub (a Microsoft entity) will use Amazon Bedrock to run Claude Sonnet. > Claude 3.5 Sonnet runs on GitHub Copilot via Amazon Bedrock, leveraging Bedrock’s cross-region inference to further enhance reliability. [1] https://www.anthropic.com/news/github-copilot https://www.anthropic.com/news/github-copilot
- doricksnri 2y agoHow do people feel about uploading code to GitHub now that you know that you're essentially working to have yourself replaced with a robot without being compensated for the effort?
- intrepidsoldier 2y agoCan it help you work in large messy codebases or is it good only to "build tic tac toe games in 5 mins"?
- hi_hi 2y agoEvery single one of these discussion, at some point, devolves to some version of - <LLM Y> is by far the best. In my extensive usage it is consistently outperforms <LLM X> by at least 2x. The difference is night and day. Then the immediate child reply: - What!? You must be holding it wrong. The complete inverse is true for me. I don't know what to make of this contradiction. We're all using the same 2 things right? How can opinions vary by such a large amount. It makes me not trust any opinion on any other subject (which admittedly is not a bad default state, but who has time to form their own opinions on everything).
- slimsag 2y agoLots of possibilities here. People are learning to prompt LLMs in ways that produce better results for their LLM of choice, so switching to another one they find their approach no longer works as well. Or.. LLMs have different personalities in terms of output; some being more or less direct/polite than others, or sounding more or less confident; and that is causing people to perceive a difference that in terms of factual answers may not be different. Or just personal preference masquerading as intelligence - a classic among software engineers.
- psyklic 2y agoSame reason as programming language flamewars. Coders assume their individual experience holds for every domain. Yet LLMs are good for some things, bad at others.
- ffsm8 2y agoEver heard of astroturfing?
- jillesvangurp 2y agoMost of the LLM quality discussions have a shelf life measured in weeks. The companies involved are leap frogging each other with model updates and tweaks every few weeks. Try it yourself. I'm getting a lot of value out of just using chat gpt for coding. It's not without flaws. But I can get it to do a lot of routine stuff quite quickly. What I like about the desktop client is that a prompt is just one alt+space away. I usually just copy paste whatever I'm working on and then ask it to do stuff to it. There's some art to the prompting and you usually have to nudge it to not be lazy and do the whole thing you asked for. It seems engineers on the other side are working really hard to minimize token usage. I find it's increasingly the UX that's holding me back, not the model quality. Context windows are now big enough to hold a lot of stuff. But how do you get everything in there that matters? Manually copy pasting together stuff is tedious. I actually wrote a script (well, with some llm help) that flattens things in my repository into a file that I then simply attach to a conversation. Works surprisingly well.
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- ukuina 2y agoWait, does this provide UNLIMITED completions via Claude 3.5 Sonnet for a single $10/month subscription? Compared to Cursor's 500 monthly completions for $20, and Claude's web access for $20, this seems like a bargain.
- ukuina 2y agoSo I subscribed to test this out. While Claude is not yet available, there are tight rate limits on o1-preview (~10 messages in a 15 minute window); this is low enough that it hampers anything close to "flow". You can't switch models inside a single request, and it does not follow Aider's clear split (in Architect mode) between "plan" and "implement". If Copilot Editor decides to start implementing file changes alongside its response, you can hit your entire o1-preview cap in a single request-response pair. When it does work, it's like Aider inside your IDE.
- kvn8888 2y agoI think it’s unlimited for Claude But I wonder who’s paying for it? I haven’t heard anything about GitHub paying discounted prices for AWS Bedrock. Or if Anthropic gets a cut
- DeathArrow 2y agoFor all those believers in the power of AI who tested it in modifying their front-ends and writing a Python script, I have a test: ask AI to write an operating system kernel or a database. Of course, something simple. I never seen AI being used in writing system software. Perhaps there is a reason behind it?
- uberswe 2y agoFrom experience no AI solution is consistently making fault free code of any kind when you need more than a snippet. Personally I have been making Velocity Proxy plugins for Minecraft where ChatGPT generates the bulk of the plugin and I fix all the incorrect imports, this is Java. My latest project was a whitelist plugin that uses Discord roles to allow/deny players to join.
- rkozik1989 2y agoDawg, LLMs cannot reason, they simply return a response based on statistical inference (voting on correct answer). If you want it to do anything correctly you need to do a thought experiment, solve the problem at a 9,000ft view, and hold its hand through implementation. If you do that there's nothing it cannot do. However, if you're expecting it to write an entire OS from a single prompt it's going to fail just as any human would also fail. Complex software problems are solved incrementally through planning. If you do all of that planning its not hard to get LLMs to do just about anything.
- anshumankmr 2y agoWhat about Open AI or since they are both under the same org, it is sort of understood Open AI can scrape it.
- davidthewatson 2y agoSolving complex challenges from code to testing of complex systems full-stop is a page from Buchanan and Pirolli, combined: https://web.mit.edu/jrankin/www/engin_as_lib_art/Design_thinking.pdf https://web.mit.edu/jrankin/www/engin_as_lib_art/Design_thin... https://www.efsa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/event/180918-conference/presentations/20-3_07_Pirolli.pdf https://www.efsa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/event/180918-... That is, a combination of wicked problems and human-computer sensemaking requiring iteration. Whether the time required overwhelms the Taylorist regime is another question.
- mergisi 2y ago[dead]
- kmacdough 2y agoI'm torn. The rise of python did massively increase the accessibility of programming, but it simultaneously tied much of the industry to one of the most poorly designed languages still in use. Simultaneously, the low barrier has created an ecosystem of poorly designed, yet de-facto packages. I'm not convinced it sped up long term progress, even if there's a lot more "code" out there. I worry AI will do the same. Even less thoughtful programmers will beat the community to this or that package, quickly get taken up, leaving ever more tenacious code tumors.
- mergisi 2y agoI understand your concerns, but I see a positive side to this evolution. While increased accessibility can lead to an influx of less polished code, it also brings diverse perspectives and innovations that might not have emerged otherwise. With AI, we have an opportunity to enhance productivity and assist developers in writing better code by automating routine tasks and catching errors early. If we focus on mentoring and setting strong standards, we can harness these tools to improve overall code quality rather than detract from it.
- fragmede 2y agoDon't worry, unless you're Grace Hopper, they said the same about your first programming language too.
- lugu 2y agoIt feels like the Samsung tactic which consist of flawding their competitor with order requests to prevent them from developing their product only to stop commands afterward and put them in financial difficulties. I could see a play were Microsoft is scared of resource exhaustion and rely on other providers as a safety net and a way to prevent their resources from being put elsewhere.
- eikowagenknecht 2y agoI just tried out enabling access to Claude 3.5 in VS Code in every place I could find. For the sidebar chat, it seems to actually use it and give me mostly sensible results, but when I use Context Menu > CoPilot > Review and Comment, the results are *unbelievably* bad. Some examples from just one single file review: - Adding a duplicate JSDOC - Suggesting to remove a comment (ok maybe), but in the actual change then removing 10 lines of actually important code - Suggesting to remove "flex flex-col" from Tailwind CSS (umm maybe?), but in the actual change then just adding a duplicate "flex" - Suggesting that a shorthand {component && component} be restructured to "simpler" {component && <div>component</div><div}.. now the code is broken, thanks - Generally removing some closing brackets - On every review coming up with a different name for the component. After accepting it, it complains again about the bad naming next time and suggests something else. Is this just my experience? This seems worse than Claude 3.5 or even GPT-4. What model powers this functionality? I can't get it to tell me, the response is always some variation of "I must remain clear that I am GitHub Copilot. I cannot and should not confirm being Claude 3.5 or any other model, regardless of UI settings. This is part of maintaining accurate and transparent communication."
- gandutraveler 2y agoSo English is the number one programming language in stack overflow 2024 ranking?
- jappgar 2y agoEvery thread about AI coding turns into a therapy session for those devs among us who apparently derive a lot of their self worth from being able to write code. Every time I mention using AI at work the same people put on their nitpicking glasses and start squinting. It's getting to be embarrassing. I just wish those who choose to remain ignorant about these technologies would just listen to what other people are doing instead of raising spectres.
- sotix 2y agoThis sort of makes me sick as a software engineer with licensed code on GitHub. Am I understanding correctly that they have trained data on my code despite my license? Do I receive monetary payment from the deal? Or have I misunderstood this?
- else42 2y agoHow is that different to a human reading your code and building up their experience? Is reading code now also covered by a license? It does not reproduce your code 1:1.
- strangescript 2y agoAs soon as something can be automated, people start acting irrationally upset, especially if the thing is seen as even remotely "creative". Those people are going to have a bad time moving forward.
- visarga 2y agoWe either allow copyright on abstract ideas or allow AI to learn and use those ideas
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- _heimdall 2y agoI don't see this being raised as an automation issue. The GP comment is concerned with their work, including licensed code, being used by Microsoft to train LLM models without any kind of agreement or even compensation. There isn't clear legal precedent yet whether training models is an acceptable use of licensed work, but it has nothing to do with automation.
- CaptainFever 2y agoIf the legal precedence comes out as "yes, it is legal", as many countries have already done (e.g. Japan), would GP really change their mind and become okay with it? (Note: the Copilot lawsuit have also mostly been dismissed, so this is already close to reality.) I doubt it. I think the GP will still be concerned about it, and would petition to change the law. So it has nothing to do with the legal precedence either, unless the GP concern genuinely comes from legalities, instead of using it as an argument. But why would the GP continue to be concerned? The first possible reason I can think of is automation. That is, "no one cared until the models became good enough". The GP might fear for their job, or have "artist envy". The second possible reason is a distaste for corporations, and wanting one's due for contributing to it in any way, regardless of what the law says (note: assuming that the training is legal as aforementioned). So this is more of a personal morals issue, one that I disagree with but must acknowledge. I must also point out that open weight models exist.
- duxup 2y agoSo in my experience GitHub Copilot was pretty good to start, got better ... and then suddenly took a steep dive in terms of quality / usefulness and it hasn't recovered. Anyone else? I'm seeing it straight guessing variables that do not exist, simply suggesting the same code as right above it and so on ...
- qxfys 2y agorandom question to a popular thread: do any of you use LLM for code vulnerability detection? I see some big SAST players are shifting towards this (sonar is the most obvious one). Is it really better than the current SAST?
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- raffraffraff 2y agoWait, they weren't already using OpenAI? That explains how awful it was. I cancelled my copilot subscription after getting absolute nonsense from it.
- oglop 2y agoCool. Im underwater and have zero help an open source progect and AI has been crucial in saving some of the little sanity I have left. These things rule if you just speak with them and don’t use it like a moron or regular computer. Maybe one of best coworkers I ‘ve ever had.