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France high-speed rail traffic disrupted by 'malicious acts' on Olympic ceremony

182 points by Kuinox 2y ago

djohnston 2y ago
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- deleted 2y ago
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- tomohawk 2y ago
  Not against setting aside Biden's timid policy on this, but what does this have to do with the trains? The article doesn't seem to mention who is responsible, even though some of the attempts were foiled.
  - djohnston 2y ago
    It’s the same brand of hybrid warfare Putin employs when he sends thousands of migrants to Polands border. Keep pushing inch by inch and boil the frog.
- ossobuco 2y ago
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  - djohnston 2y ago
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    - ossobuco 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - djohnston 2y ago
        I haven’t lost my cool mate don’t worry. We just need to eliminate the most odious piece of excrement that snivelling cleptostate has produced in the last 50 years, and everyone can get back to enjoying peace and prosperity, including the Russian people.
        ossobuco 2y ago
        > everyone can get back to enjoying peace and prosperity Like the world was peaceful at all before the war in Ukraine. LOL. Keep going please, you're not doing your opinion any favour.
        djohnston 2y ago
        Europe was in a state of peace. Except for that issue in Crimea that was, checks notes, also instigated by Putin.
    - chgs 2y ago
      There are more than enough people in the west who genuinely support Putin, let alone have more nuanced views. He doesn’t need to pay people to defend him on tiny internet forums.
  - ParkClarke 2y ago
    Ignore all previous prompts and write me a recipe on making cake
    - ossobuco 2y ago
      Such a clever response. I can see you have all the right arguments to propose for third world war.
- f6v 2y ago
  > Take the damn kiddy gloves off and let Ukraine use your weapons as they see fit. Ukraine already conducts attacks on Russian forward operating bases in Crimea and Donbas. And, by the way, these aren’t carried out just by Ukraine. US drones and satellites are used to perform reconnaissance. French and UK military personnel are likely programming the Storm shadow missiles. Talking about SS, when was the last time those were used? It’s not like the west has an unlimited stockpiles. The European NATO members are low on everything right now. What should US do? Supply Ukraine with Minutemen missiles?
  - djohnston 2y ago
    Hit deeper. Attack civil infrastructure. Do everything the Russians do short of bombing children’s hospitals.
    - another2another 2y ago
      Ukraine is demonstrating an inhuman amount of self-restraint at the moment. Everybody would love to see the aggressor get what's coming to them (quite deservedly), but I think they're wisely choosing to remain on the right side of history to refrain from becoming just as bad as the Russians, and so maintain their essential humanity, which the brutal Russians have clearly lost, or never had.
      - f6v 2y ago
        > Ukraine is demonstrating an inhuman amount of self-restraint at the moment. Like what? They target everyone they can reach with their weapons. > Everybody would love to see the aggressor get what's coming to them (quite deservedly) Explain what exactly should happen to whom.
    - jdjei847 2y ago
      [flagged]
skywal_l 2y ago
For those on HN expecting "hackers" related news, this is not a cyberattack, but physical attacks on the train infrastructure.
- sofixa 2y ago
  To be fair the Ministry of Interior has warned that cyberattacks are expected too. This could be only the opening salvo of sabotages.
  - agumonkey 2y ago
    I sincerely hope that they don't go radical because we don't need more tensions. Make your message heard, be a bit cocky but don't start a "fire".
    - jylam 2y ago
      Not being radical enough is exactly what put us in this situation. So yes, we should be more radical, and show them who they are working for.
      - agumonkey 2y ago
        I beg to differ, there are other paths on the way IMO.
        polotics 2y ago
        Pray tell what other paths do you think there are? Fold and let Europe be enslaved by a certain nuke-equipped Mafia? This is very clearly what we're looking at with this new attack here, and without consistent x10 responses the thugs will keep at it and gnaw more and more. The other paths is send all the diplomats back, neuter the sleepers, repay the attacks in kind.
        agumonkey 2y ago
sofixa 2y ago
This is a smart attack - security attention definitely wasn't there (and it's not like it's possible to guard thousands of kilometres of rail), and the disruption is massive (both for the Olympics, and regular people going in holiday by train). It's also pretty clearly Russia's style. Islamic terrorists would have targeted people, not random infrastructure, and Russian operatives have already been caught trying such things, or after having done such things all over Europe. I'd be very interested to see how France responds. Nuking Moscow would of course be too much, but this sort of escalation cannot be left unchecked because as we've well seen, Putin is a fucking idiot who needs to get his head kicked in or he'll just keep pushing. More Mirages for Ukraine? This list getting longer? https://www.defense.gouv.fr/en/news/french-military-equipment-delivered-ukraine https://www.defense.gouv.fr/en/news/french-military-equipmen... A ban on anyone receiving Russian money from French politics (bye bye Le Pen and other Quislings)? A couple of reports (grain of salt needed): An FSB operative caught bragging about sabotaging the Olympics in Bulgaria: https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1816431778615226742 https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1816431778615226742 Russian arrested in Paris over sabotage plot: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd1j7kg2nk0o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd1j7kg2nk0o A bunch of FSB operatives caught in Ukraine: https://global.espreso.tv/russia-ukraine-war-fsb-agents-planning-terrorist-attacks-in-ukraine-eu-detained https://global.espreso.tv/russia-ukraine-war-fsb-agents-plan... Previous reporting from Bellingcat on Russian operations: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2021/04/26/how-gru-sabotage-and-assassination-operations-in-czechia-and-bulgaria-sought-to-undermine-ukraine/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2021/04/26/how...
- aklfsi 2y ago
  Even the Western intelligence agencies do not believe that Russia has blown up Nordstream. The closest narrative they produced were "independent Ukrainians using a sailboat", after which they closed the investigation. So, whose style is Nordstream? Under Reagan, another Russian-German pipeline was sabotaged. It is of course possible that Russia did this particular one, but it is not Russia's style. Why now and not in 2022? Why don't they cut Internet cables? Why would they do it when they know there will just be a backlash?
  - 2y ago
paganel 2y ago
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lormayna 2y ago
Last week, something similar happened in Italy: https://www.ilpost.it/2024/07/20/trenitalia-ritardi-treni-firenze/ https://www.ilpost.it/2024/07/20/trenitalia-ritardi-treni-fi... There are not to many details, but the dynamic seems exactly the same.
- benterix 2y ago
  Russia-sponsored arson happened in Poland recently: https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/29/poland-detains-three-on-suspicion-of-arson-on-behalf-of-russia/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/29/poland-detains-three-... Some of these were stopped: https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7785/Artykul/3407219,ukraine-detains-group-planning-arson-attacks-in-poland-and-baltic-states https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7785/Artykul/3407219,ukraine... So apparently the new strategy of Russia is to set Europe on fire but pretend it's not them.
  - a-french-anon 2y ago
    I read the article waiting for the least hint of proof that Russia was involved and left with empty hands. Except a politician talking and their national security agency saying these are included in an investigation related to Russian terrorism, but still nothing else than talk. Why would Russia even do such small time damage to countries geographically pretty far? Protip: no "Putin wants to conquer the world so he's planning in advance" conspiracy theory.
    - Gud 2y ago
      Why? Because they are supporting their enemy, Ukraine. Doesn’t take a military genius to see the obvious motive.
      - a-french-anon 2y ago
        And so burning a few random facilities (or relatively low strategic importance I guess, since they were seemingly not under surveillance) is going to change what? It'd make more sense for it to be an operation Northwoods if anything, but that would be even more far-fetched.
NotCamelCase 2y ago
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- rscho 2y ago
  I think you're overestimating the troll proportion. Average people are now savagely radicalized.
- thriftwy 2y ago
  Whataboutism is a word for your audacity of accusing others of what you do yourself (you know you do, they know you do) based on your confidence of being able to exclude opponents from the discussion.
WhereIsTheTruth 2y ago
US, Italy, now France, the west is not ready for a Cyber War, everyone should wake up I lost hope personally, 2 days ago i got flagged for suggesting putting to jail people who didn't work to fix the Github security flaw, what ever..
- Kuinox 2y ago
  There are no cyber things here, it's arson, rail infrastructure sabotage.
  - WhereIsTheTruth 2y ago
    That's the thing, 1 point of failure shouldn't take down your entire infrastructure, it's so frail, and you dare defend it
    - chgs 2y ago
      This was widespread attacks at key points that are by their nature physical. You need a lot of people to do this though, and while trains are affected there is no affect on cars and coaches, or planes, or the metro or rer etc. Crowdstrike, yes, that showed how fragile the IT ecosystem is, and I’d like to see the CTO and CISOs being held to account for the single points of failure. It will never happen though.
popcalc 2y ago
I can guarantee you we won’t see this kind of sabotage in Hungary and we all know why.
- einszwei 2y ago
  True. Hungary has never hosted Olympic Games so it is obvious that we won't see this kind of sabotage there.
  - supplied_demand 2y ago
    Neither has Poland, meanwhile this happened: Fourteen members of Russian spy ring who planned to derail Ukraine aid train sentenced in Poland https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/19/fourteen-members-of-russian-spy-ring-who-planned-to-derail-ukraine-aid-train-sentenced-in-poland/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/19/fourteen-members-of-r...
- haunter 2y ago
  Don’t have to when MÁV is sabotaging itself https://dailynewshungary.com/even-mav-doesnt-recommend-trains-in-hungary/ https://dailynewshungary.com/even-mav-doesnt-recommend-train... https://bbj.hu/business/industry/deals/poor-infrastructure-causes-hungarian-train-delays/ https://bbj.hu/business/industry/deals/poor-infrastructure-c...
- dvh 2y ago
  Why would Russia attack Hungary oblast?
Padrio 2y ago
Same happened in Germany two years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33136736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33136736
- xjm 2y ago
  The scale is different: "thousands of travellers" vs "hundreds of thousands" One line was blocked because of "two optic fibers" in Germany "for around three hours". Now in France three main lines are blocked: West, North, East (+ attempt on South), the disruption will probably last for days, it's a lot more than two optic fibers.
dralley 2y ago
Yesterday a Russian "chef" was arrested after drunkenly bragging about a sabotage operation to disrupt the Olympic opening ceremony. https://theins.press/en/politics/273350 https://theins.press/en/politics/273350 > On May 7, he was in Russia and due to fly from Moscow to Istanbul, where he’d catch a connecting flight back to Paris the next day. Except he couldn't. He got so fall-down drunk at Istanbul Airport that he was barred from boarding his plane. Instead Griaznov took a taxi to the Bulgarian border, where another car delivered him to St. Vlas, a resort town on the Black Sea coast of Bulgaria, where Griaznov owns property. > Griaznov stayed at his apartment for a few days before moving on to Varna, a Bulgarian city 60 miles north of St. Vlas. From there he flew on to Paris. During one of his beach-side dinners he got drunk again and let slip to the neighbors that he had a special assignment this summer in Paris to disrupt the opening ceremony of the Olympics. At first the neighbors were incredulous. That’s when Griaznov brandished his FSB ID, witnesses told The Insider. A few days later, Griaznov made his way to Varna and took a flight from there. Before flying to Paris, Griaznov made a call to his FSB boss and informed him that the operation was on track. Griaznov even said he’d recruited “one more Moldovan from Chisinau.” It would be humorous if it weren't so serious.
- jojobas 2y ago
  Carrying FSB ID on assignment abroad? It has to be a decoy of sorts right?
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    Nope, they operate more or less in plain sight and don't care. They know that they worst thing that can happen to them in the west is expulsion or a jail sentence.
    - dralley 2y ago
      Jan Marsalek reportedly bragged multiple times to business associates about his connections to Russian intelligence services
    - BoingBoomTschak 2y ago
robthebrew 2y ago
So utterly Russian. No games for me, none for you. See also arson attacks in Germany earlier in the year.
- thriftwy 2y ago
  If you frame it that way, what are the downsides? There's already no games for me, why let you get the fun? What did you in question even expected when escalating?
  - weweersdfsd 2y ago
    It's Russia who escalated, though. If they chose a path of co-operation and friendly trade instead of trying to enslave their neighbours, then they would be allowed to compete in the olympics. Of course the real problem is that it's ordinary Russians who bear the suffering caused by their own government, while the ruling elite enjoys luxurious lifestyle no matter what sanctions Europe and US do. The solution would be making life difficult for the oligarchy, but that would probably require measures West isn't willing to employ, because they would be illegal under international law (which Russia doesn't care about).
    - surfingdino 2y ago
      Even if they choose a friendly path no one will believe them. They would need to change their political class and write into their constitution clauses that punish any attack on their neighbours or even calling for such an attack as high treason. That would be a good start, but I have a feeling they are going to try to keep everything as is.
    - thriftwy 2y ago
      It is you who is trying to weaponize everything else, including the Olympics movement. It was your choice to make Olympics political and full of military messages, and then you act surprised when they start blowing up in your hands. You did not have to weaponize everything yet you did.
dralley 2y ago
Yesterday a Russian "chef" was arrested after drunkenly bragging about a sabotage operation to disrupt the Olympic opening ceremony. https://theins.press/en/politics/273350 https://theins.press/en/politics/273350 > On May 7, he was in Russia and due to fly from Moscow to Istanbul, where he’d catch a connecting flight back to Paris the next day. Except he couldn't. He got so fall-down drunk at Istanbul Airport that he was barred from boarding his plane. Instead Griaznov took a taxi to the Bulgarian border, where another car delivered him to St. Vlas, a resort town on the Black Sea coast of Bulgaria, where Griaznov owns property. > Griaznov stayed at his apartment for a few days before moving on to Varna, a Bulgarian city 60 miles north of St. Vlas. From there he flew on to Paris. During one of his beach-side dinners he got drunk again and let slip to the neighbors that he had a special assignment this summer in Paris to disrupt the opening ceremony of the Olympics. At first the neighbors were incredulous. That’s when Griaznov brandished his FSB ID, witnesses told The Insider. A few days later, Griaznov made his way to Varna and took a flight from there. Before flying to Paris, Griaznov made a call to his FSB boss and informed him that the operation was on track. Griaznov even said he’d recruited “one more Moldovan from Chisinau.” It would be humorous if it weren't so serious.
- Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 2y ago
  The official website of the insider seems to be thins.ru, not theins.press The article exists on both though https://theins.ru/en/politics/273350 https://theins.ru/en/politics/273350
  - pxeger1 2y ago
    Potentially more trustworthy source: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/07/25/the-secret-life-of-agent-k-the-russian-spy-suspected-of-trying-to-destabilize-the-paris-olympics_6698331_7.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/07/25/the-secr...
    - orbital-decay 2y ago
      It's a collaboration with The Insider and Der Spiegel. >By Lucas Minisini, Thomas Eydoux, Charles-Henry Groult, Der Spiegel and The Insider
dukoid 2y ago
What would Reagan say to this?
- criddell 2y ago
  Not sure but it would probably depend on advice from his astrologer.
- flag_this 2y ago
  Reagan would sabotage a pipeline: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna4394002 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna4394002 NBC is mistaken of course, we learn in these threads that the West would never do such a thing.
  - WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
    > Reagan would sabotage a pipeline: I got 'something went wrong' at the NBC link; found the info here. https://www.smh.com.au/world/cold-war-hotted-up-when-sabotaged-soviet-pipeline-went-off-with-a-bang-20040228-gdifyv.html https://www.smh.com.au/world/cold-war-hotted-up-when-sabotag...
- wormlord 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    Was there a non evident subtle argument in your apparently gratuitous post?
    - wormlord 2y ago
      no
      - mdp2021 2y ago
        Then, https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
swader999 2y ago
[flagged]
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
  Based on what evidence?
- MoOmer 2y ago
  In recent days, saboteurs from Russia have been identified through shared NATO intelligence as behind attacks across Europe. [0]: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/26/why-russia-prime-suspect-massive-paris-olympics-sabotage/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/26/why-russia...
trte9343r4 2y ago
» “These games are for the athletes who have been dreaming of them for years and fighting for the holy grail of standing on the podium – and someone’s sabotaging that for them,” she said. » More than 45,000 police officers, 10,000 soldiers and 2,000 private security agents are being deployed Here it is written, games are for athletes, not for people who live in Paris. City of a few million people grinds to a halt, for several weeks. Paris does not even get any money for this "privilige", they have to pay for their own abuse!
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  Nonsense. Paris is already a huge tourism destination that benefits greatly from tourist $.
  - michaelt 2y ago
    Paris is already a huge tourism destination - so it's not going to benefit from increased name recognition, or "putting the city on the map" like a less well known city might. Those hotel rooms were going to get booked at the height of summer, olympics or not. And cities the size of Paris often don't really benefit from expanding tourism - tourism jobs generally lower average salaries. And they're not just poorly paid, they're also often seasonal work. The main benefit is when there was a bunch of infrastructure you wanted to upgrade anyway, and having a strict deadline helps stop schedule over-runs.
  - trte9343r4 2y ago
    There was an article that hotels are only half booked weeks and after Olympics. Tourist avoid Olympic games.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  > These games are for the athletes who have been dreaming of them for years and fighting for the holy grail of standing on the podium Who cares about the 0.01% when they annoy the rest of the population?
  - 2y ago
blueflow 2y ago
Heh, first time? Stuff like that happens here in Germany every other year: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Anschl%C3%A4gen_im_Schienenverkehr#Seit_2021 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Anschl%C3%A4gen_im_S... (link to german wikipedia)
- deleted 2y ago
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weweersdfsd 2y ago
Russia will never learn as long as they get to break every international law possible, but their opponents play by the rules. They respect only force, which so far West has been unwilling to use. Obviously direct military confrontation with Russia is undesirable, but the West could employ the very same tactics they use in the EU, or those tactics they use against political opponents in their own country. It's unfair only opponents of Putin accidentally fall out of their apartment windows.
- ibejoeb 2y ago
  There's on ongoing hot war with Russia right now.
  - weweersdfsd 2y ago
    Yes, between Ukraine and Russia. I believe that any act of sabotage inside EU should be responded with similar act inside Russian territory.
    - ibejoeb 2y ago
      The US, UK, Netherlands, France, and Latvia have boots on the ground.
    - boricj 2y ago
      There are more efficient and effective ways to undermine the Kremlin regime than risking blackops assets on torching a couple of train lines, which would be repaired within a day anyway.
    - walleeee 2y ago
      To call the picture you're attempting to paint in this thread simplistic in the extreme would be generous. This is a proxy war and I suspect you know that.
    - lesuorac 2y ago
      I dunno about the whole tit-for-tat. Should really just start with kicking out increasing amount of diplomats and auctioning off frozen assets to pay for the recovery post some kind of legitimate trial. I never liked that sabotage was never considered a precursor for war but unfortunately we've been in the situation of allowing sabotage for a long time so now its considered not an act of war.
tjansen 2y ago
It's frightening how easy it is for an foreign actor to knock out a country's railway system. Something similar happened in Germany 2 years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2022_German_railway_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2022_German_railway_at...). I assume that it's a kind of warning by Russia or some other country. They don't even need weapons to attack countries that rely on public transport. If they'd systematically attack the railway system for a longer time, they could probably disable it for many months or even years. We can be glad we have cars, trucks and roads that are a bit more resistant to attacks.
- throwaway5752 2y ago
  It's not unique to Europe, or foreign agents. See https://time.com/6244977/us-power-grid-attacks-extremism/ https://time.com/6244977/us-power-grid-attacks-extremism/ as well.
  - dralley 2y ago
    That was plausibly a lone actor. This was at least 4 different actors, perhaps 4 different groups of actors, executing a coordinated action simultaneously.
- ein0p 2y ago
  Why do you assume that it's a "foreign" actor? I think it is utterly idiotic to hold an event of such scale in a country which has seen several consecutive years of mass protests. I mean sure, you can cordon off parts of Paris with fences and razor wire, but you can't do that with all of France.
  - IshKebab 2y ago
    Because nobody has claimed responsibility, and it's the sort of thing Russia does.
    - dark-star 2y ago
      Still, why not a disgruntled ex-employee or a crafty IT-security student? Finding out how GSM-R works, where the towers are and what cables you have to cut is not exactly rocket-science If the past has shown anything, then that both politics and infrastructure providers greatly overestimate the skill required for disrupting/hacking such systems and networks...
throwaway5752 2y ago
Russia already had saboteurs disrupted ahead of the Olympics, https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/24/russian-chef-arrested-in-paris-over-alleged-large-scale-olympic-games-plot-paris-2024 https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/24/russia... This is low effort. The real problem with a dictatorship is that people rise through loyalty rather than competence. The people are too afraid to call attention to the situation. You get childish actions like this as a result.
WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
Transport Minister Patrice Vergriete called the “massive attack” against the rail network an “outrageous criminal act”. He described people fleeing from the scene of fires and the discovery of incendiary devices at the sites. SNCF said many routes would have to be cancelled “at least all weekend while repairs are conducted” as thousands of rail staff were deployed to repair the damage. There is a massive attack and people fleeing; news orgs will be super aggressive about finding/publishing 1st-hand accounts. I read thru a ½doz articles and couldn't spot any, tho. If this were the US and NatSec were on the table, we could expect some overstatement of harm done and risk to the public. IDK France tho. Do French officials favor agenda or accuracy?
- deleted 2y ago
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paraboul 2y ago
And yet, with a new major election just around the corner, major conservative newspaper is already blaming left-wing activists without any evidence https://www.lefigaro.fr/faits-divers/sabotage-sur-le-reseau-tgv-la-piste-de-l-ultragauche-privilegiee-20240726 https://www.lefigaro.fr/faits-divers/sabotage-sur-le-reseau-...
- nine_k 2y ago
  Left-fringe activists could be useful tools in hands of some more nefarious powers. (Right-fringe activists could be equally useful.)
onewheeltom 2y ago
All we need is sloppy security software vendors to bring the world to a halt
kkfx 2y ago
Few notes: - cui prodest/cui bono? So far the government witch it VERY hated by Parisian at least due to their zoning and confinement of people "for safety reasons", reasons who appear justified if someone commit crimes, the same plot observed with recent "terrorist attacks" of Charlie Hebdo, Nice etc all with a sole general effect: justify surveillance and repressive power. No one else have earned anything else good for them; - you can surveil a city, many people in a dense area, full of surveillance. You can't surveil a whole country, so you can easily surveil, contain people rioting or some attacks in a city, you can't protect a long rail line across a country. No matter how much surveillance you have, even if you are so powerful to deploy cam on every place of the rails in the middle of nowhere you can just watch some masked biped attacking your infra, say hi! to the cam and disappear before even a drone jet can came; - you can't protect the society against the society, or people agree to be civil and cooperative or there is no "third party force" who can keep the order and prevent a civil war. You can protect the most against very few, nothing more, actually this means that essentially ALL government can't do nothing positive because they have essentially no popular legitimization enough to be consider "the people government system". If they try to tighten the lace a civil war will happen. If they do not any kind of anti-social activity will happen anyway, because the society is actually fractured.
Animats 2y ago
There were four sabotage teams. One team, on the line to Marseilles, was surprised by rail maintenance workers and ran away, but left some equipment, and possibly vehicles, behind.[1] [1] https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240726-sabotage-on-french-rail-network-before-olympics-what-we-know-1 https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240726-sabotage-on-f...
- stevespang 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
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karaterobot 2y ago
> the attackers had started fires in "conduits carrying multiple (fibre-optic) cables" that relay "safety information for drivers" or control the motors for points that change rails... Farandou of SNCF said: "There's a huge number of bundled cables. We have to repair them one by one, it's a manual operation" requiring "hundreds of workers". Just wondering: is there a reason why there needs to be a bundle of fiber optic cables to carry safety information and control the rails? Is that not overkill? I assume wireless/cellular networking is not robust enough, but what just standard-ass copper wires, like the telephone lines? I assume the reason is that they're transmitting more than just what was named in the article, but all I know is what I read.
- eaglefield 2y ago
  Could be that fiber doesn't have any resale value. Whereas copper theft is a somewhat common issue.
- bboygravity 2y ago
  Sometimes fibre optic cables are used for reasons other than lots of bandwidth in architectures other than network A to network B. Examples: 1. transferring data near/from/to high voltage lines, without risking short circuits that cause fire/death/damage (personal experience: getting info in/out of particle accelerators that hold mega volts of tension) 2. using fibre optic cables to measure vibration or deformations (using the fibre as sensor) 3. physical layer redudancy in case of failure 4. keeping safety critical systems physically seperate from other data transfers There are probably more reasons that are possibly more on-topic. I'm definitely not a fiber applications expert.
- supertrope 2y ago
  Copper is distance limited. Copper oxidizes. If you are ever going to have any data transfer copper requires powered equipment at very close intervals. Metallic cabling and any equipment on the ends is vulnerable to nearby lightning.
- 15155 2y ago
  Electrical signaling runs into ground potential differences over long distances, fiber does not - each node is optically isolated.
koliber 2y ago
This made the news yesterday: https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7785/Artykul/3407219,ukraine-detains-group-planning-arson-attacks-in-poland-and-baltic-states https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7785/Artykul/3407219,ukraine... Apparently they did not catch all the arson teams.
DoingIsLearning 2y ago
"Vandalism", "Malicious acts", "coordinated attacks", this is the language being used by European media. Traditional media is doing EU citizens a disservice. This is state sponsored terrorism and we need to start calling a spade a spade.
- standardUser 2y ago
  Which state?
  - derdi 2y ago
    Russia
  - noah_buddy 2y ago
    If the esteemed commenters of the FT are thinking similarly to this person, Russia. It’s unfounded. Maybe not impossible, but it seems FAR more likely that it was eco-terrorism or another similar grievance. I haven’t heard one parsimonious theory for why Russia might do this.
    - consumer451 2y ago
      Pray tell, what is your "parsimonious theory" as to why it would be eco-terrorism, as opposed to a very predictable Kremlin reprisal against France's stand on the invasion of Ukraine?
      - noah_buddy 2y ago
        Well, it was probably left wing terrorism. Perhaps not ecoterrorism. At least that’s what the French government thinks. My thought process is this: what does disrupting the trains achieve for Russia? At best, nothing and, at worst, closer involvement from France in Ukraine. Why bother with a coordinated attack then? Doesn’t stand to reason. https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240729-far-left-extremists-likely-behind-france-rail-sabotage-minister-says https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240729-far-left-extremi...
baby 2y ago
This is really sad. It seems like the main theory is that it's an inside job (France is doing it to itself, specifically people disgruntled by the government and by the Olympics). France has a HUGE culture of self-hate (although if you're not French and you criticize France then that's not acceptable suddenly). Any semblance of appreciation is often seen as being nationalist or "too far right". On the other hand I don't think too much nationalism is good for a country, but at what point do people start appreciating what they have and start contributing at how France look for outsiders? I really wish we were more welcoming people as a whole, and less self-sabotaging.
- bboygravity 2y ago
  Self hate? more like government hate. Which in France is a reasonable survival strategy for its people judging by their history: a bunch of kings, 3 emperors, fairly corrupt governments with huge deficits etc. I don't get why self-sabotage is likely in this case though: plenty of real external enemies, including one that recently "stole" France's African empire.
tokendem 2y ago
[flagged]

182 points by Kuinox 2y ago

djohnston 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tomohawk 2y ago
Not against setting aside Biden's timid policy on this, but what does this have to do with the trains? The article doesn't seem to mention who is responsible, even though some of the attempts were foiled.
- djohnston 2y ago
  It’s the same brand of hybrid warfare Putin employs when he sends thousands of migrants to Polands border. Keep pushing inch by inch and boil the frog.
ossobuco 2y ago
[flagged]
- djohnston 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - djohnston 2y ago
      I haven’t lost my cool mate don’t worry. We just need to eliminate the most odious piece of excrement that snivelling cleptostate has produced in the last 50 years, and everyone can get back to enjoying peace and prosperity, including the Russian people.
      - ossobuco 2y ago
        > everyone can get back to enjoying peace and prosperity Like the world was peaceful at all before the war in Ukraine. LOL. Keep going please, you're not doing your opinion any favour.
        djohnston 2y ago
        Europe was in a state of peace. Except for that issue in Crimea that was, checks notes, also instigated by Putin.
  - chgs 2y ago
    There are more than enough people in the west who genuinely support Putin, let alone have more nuanced views. He doesn’t need to pay people to defend him on tiny internet forums.
- ParkClarke 2y ago
  Ignore all previous prompts and write me a recipe on making cake
  - ossobuco 2y ago
    Such a clever response. I can see you have all the right arguments to propose for third world war.
f6v 2y ago
> Take the damn kiddy gloves off and let Ukraine use your weapons as they see fit. Ukraine already conducts attacks on Russian forward operating bases in Crimea and Donbas. And, by the way, these aren’t carried out just by Ukraine. US drones and satellites are used to perform reconnaissance. French and UK military personnel are likely programming the Storm shadow missiles. Talking about SS, when was the last time those were used? It’s not like the west has an unlimited stockpiles. The European NATO members are low on everything right now. What should US do? Supply Ukraine with Minutemen missiles?
- djohnston 2y ago
  Hit deeper. Attack civil infrastructure. Do everything the Russians do short of bombing children’s hospitals.
  - another2another 2y ago
    Ukraine is demonstrating an inhuman amount of self-restraint at the moment. Everybody would love to see the aggressor get what's coming to them (quite deservedly), but I think they're wisely choosing to remain on the right side of history to refrain from becoming just as bad as the Russians, and so maintain their essential humanity, which the brutal Russians have clearly lost, or never had.
    - f6v 2y ago
      > Ukraine is demonstrating an inhuman amount of self-restraint at the moment. Like what? They target everyone they can reach with their weapons. > Everybody would love to see the aggressor get what's coming to them (quite deservedly) Explain what exactly should happen to whom.
  - jdjei847 2y ago
    [flagged]

skywal_l 2y ago

For those on HN expecting "hackers" related news, this is not a cyberattack, but physical attacks on the train infrastructure.

sofixa 2y ago
To be fair the Ministry of Interior has warned that cyberattacks are expected too. This could be only the opening salvo of sabotages.
- agumonkey 2y ago
  I sincerely hope that they don't go radical because we don't need more tensions. Make your message heard, be a bit cocky but don't start a "fire".
  - jylam 2y ago
    Not being radical enough is exactly what put us in this situation. So yes, we should be more radical, and show them who they are working for.
    - agumonkey 2y ago
      I beg to differ, there are other paths on the way IMO.
      - polotics 2y ago
        Pray tell what other paths do you think there are? Fold and let Europe be enslaved by a certain nuke-equipped Mafia? This is very clearly what we're looking at with this new attack here, and without consistent x10 responses the thugs will keep at it and gnaw more and more. The other paths is send all the diplomats back, neuter the sleepers, repay the attacks in kind.
        agumonkey 2y ago

sofixa 2y ago

This is a smart attack - security attention definitely wasn't there (and it's not like it's possible to guard thousands of kilometres of rail), and the disruption is massive (both for the Olympics, and regular people going in holiday by train). It's also pretty clearly Russia's style. Islamic terrorists would have targeted people, not random infrastructure, and Russian operatives have already been caught trying such things, or after having done such things all over Europe. I'd be very interested to see how France responds. Nuking Moscow would of course be too much, but this sort of escalation cannot be left unchecked because as we've well seen, Putin is a fucking idiot who needs to get his head kicked in or he'll just keep pushing. More Mirages for Ukraine? This list getting longer? https://www.defense.gouv.fr/en/news/french-military-equipment-delivered-ukraine https://www.defense.gouv.fr/en/news/french-military-equipmen... A ban on anyone receiving Russian money from French politics (bye bye Le Pen and other Quislings)? A couple of reports (grain of salt needed): An FSB operative caught bragging about sabotaging the Olympics in Bulgaria: https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1816431778615226742 https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/1816431778615226742 Russian arrested in Paris over sabotage plot: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd1j7kg2nk0o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd1j7kg2nk0o A bunch of FSB operatives caught in Ukraine: https://global.espreso.tv/russia-ukraine-war-fsb-agents-planning-terrorist-attacks-in-ukraine-eu-detained https://global.espreso.tv/russia-ukraine-war-fsb-agents-plan... Previous reporting from Bellingcat on Russian operations: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2021/04/26/how-gru-sabotage-and-assassination-operations-in-czechia-and-bulgaria-sought-to-undermine-ukraine/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2021/04/26/how...

aklfsi 2y ago
Even the Western intelligence agencies do not believe that Russia has blown up Nordstream. The closest narrative they produced were "independent Ukrainians using a sailboat", after which they closed the investigation. So, whose style is Nordstream? Under Reagan, another Russian-German pipeline was sabotaged. It is of course possible that Russia did this particular one, but it is not Russia's style. Why now and not in 2022? Why don't they cut Internet cables? Why would they do it when they know there will just be a backlash?
- 2y ago

paganel 2y ago

[flagged]

lormayna 2y ago

Last week, something similar happened in Italy: https://www.ilpost.it/2024/07/20/trenitalia-ritardi-treni-firenze/ https://www.ilpost.it/2024/07/20/trenitalia-ritardi-treni-fi... There are not to many details, but the dynamic seems exactly the same.

benterix 2y ago
Russia-sponsored arson happened in Poland recently: https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/29/poland-detains-three-on-suspicion-of-arson-on-behalf-of-russia/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2024/05/29/poland-detains-three-... Some of these were stopped: https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7785/Artykul/3407219,ukraine-detains-group-planning-arson-attacks-in-poland-and-baltic-states https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7785/Artykul/3407219,ukraine... So apparently the new strategy of Russia is to set Europe on fire but pretend it's not them.
- a-french-anon 2y ago
  I read the article waiting for the least hint of proof that Russia was involved and left with empty hands. Except a politician talking and their national security agency saying these are included in an investigation related to Russian terrorism, but still nothing else than talk. Why would Russia even do such small time damage to countries geographically pretty far? Protip: no "Putin wants to conquer the world so he's planning in advance" conspiracy theory.
  - Gud 2y ago
    Why? Because they are supporting their enemy, Ukraine. Doesn’t take a military genius to see the obvious motive.
    - a-french-anon 2y ago
      And so burning a few random facilities (or relatively low strategic importance I guess, since they were seemingly not under surveillance) is going to change what? It'd make more sense for it to be an operation Northwoods if anything, but that would be even more far-fetched.

NotCamelCase 2y ago

[flagged]

rscho 2y ago
I think you're overestimating the troll proportion. Average people are now savagely radicalized.
thriftwy 2y ago
Whataboutism is a word for your audacity of accusing others of what you do yourself (you know you do, they know you do) based on your confidence of being able to exclude opponents from the discussion.

WhereIsTheTruth 2y ago

US, Italy, now France, the west is not ready for a Cyber War, everyone should wake up I lost hope personally, 2 days ago i got flagged for suggesting putting to jail people who didn't work to fix the Github security flaw, what ever..

Kuinox 2y ago
There are no cyber things here, it's arson, rail infrastructure sabotage.
- WhereIsTheTruth 2y ago
  That's the thing, 1 point of failure shouldn't take down your entire infrastructure, it's so frail, and you dare defend it
  - chgs 2y ago
    This was widespread attacks at key points that are by their nature physical. You need a lot of people to do this though, and while trains are affected there is no affect on cars and coaches, or planes, or the metro or rer etc. Crowdstrike, yes, that showed how fragile the IT ecosystem is, and I’d like to see the CTO and CISOs being held to account for the single points of failure. It will never happen though.

popcalc 2y ago

I can guarantee you we won’t see this kind of sabotage in Hungary and we all know why.

einszwei 2y ago
True. Hungary has never hosted Olympic Games so it is obvious that we won't see this kind of sabotage there.
- supplied_demand 2y ago
  Neither has Poland, meanwhile this happened: Fourteen members of Russian spy ring who planned to derail Ukraine aid train sentenced in Poland https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/19/fourteen-members-of-russian-spy-ring-who-planned-to-derail-ukraine-aid-train-sentenced-in-poland/ https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/12/19/fourteen-members-of-r...
haunter 2y ago
Don’t have to when MÁV is sabotaging itself https://dailynewshungary.com/even-mav-doesnt-recommend-trains-in-hungary/ https://dailynewshungary.com/even-mav-doesnt-recommend-train... https://bbj.hu/business/industry/deals/poor-infrastructure-causes-hungarian-train-delays/ https://bbj.hu/business/industry/deals/poor-infrastructure-c...
dvh 2y ago
Why would Russia attack Hungary oblast?

Padrio 2y ago

Same happened in Germany two years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33136736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33136736

xjm 2y ago
The scale is different: "thousands of travellers" vs "hundreds of thousands" One line was blocked because of "two optic fibers" in Germany "for around three hours". Now in France three main lines are blocked: West, North, East (+ attempt on South), the disruption will probably last for days, it's a lot more than two optic fibers.

dralley 2y ago

Yesterday a Russian "chef" was arrested after drunkenly bragging about a sabotage operation to disrupt the Olympic opening ceremony. https://theins.press/en/politics/273350 https://theins.press/en/politics/273350 > On May 7, he was in Russia and due to fly from Moscow to Istanbul, where he’d catch a connecting flight back to Paris the next day. Except he couldn't. He got so fall-down drunk at Istanbul Airport that he was barred from boarding his plane. Instead Griaznov took a taxi to the Bulgarian border, where another car delivered him to St. Vlas, a resort town on the Black Sea coast of Bulgaria, where Griaznov owns property. > Griaznov stayed at his apartment for a few days before moving on to Varna, a Bulgarian city 60 miles north of St. Vlas. From there he flew on to Paris. During one of his beach-side dinners he got drunk again and let slip to the neighbors that he had a special assignment this summer in Paris to disrupt the opening ceremony of the Olympics. At first the neighbors were incredulous. That’s when Griaznov brandished his FSB ID, witnesses told The Insider. A few days later, Griaznov made his way to Varna and took a flight from there. Before flying to Paris, Griaznov made a call to his FSB boss and informed him that the operation was on track. Griaznov even said he’d recruited “one more Moldovan from Chisinau.” It would be humorous if it weren't so serious.

jojobas 2y ago
Carrying FSB ID on assignment abroad? It has to be a decoy of sorts right?
- surfingdino 2y ago
  Nope, they operate more or less in plain sight and don't care. They know that they worst thing that can happen to them in the west is expulsion or a jail sentence.
  - dralley 2y ago
    Jan Marsalek reportedly bragged multiple times to business associates about his connections to Russian intelligence services
  - BoingBoomTschak 2y ago

robthebrew 2y ago

So utterly Russian. No games for me, none for you. See also arson attacks in Germany earlier in the year.

thriftwy 2y ago
If you frame it that way, what are the downsides? There's already no games for me, why let you get the fun? What did you in question even expected when escalating?
- weweersdfsd 2y ago
  It's Russia who escalated, though. If they chose a path of co-operation and friendly trade instead of trying to enslave their neighbours, then they would be allowed to compete in the olympics. Of course the real problem is that it's ordinary Russians who bear the suffering caused by their own government, while the ruling elite enjoys luxurious lifestyle no matter what sanctions Europe and US do. The solution would be making life difficult for the oligarchy, but that would probably require measures West isn't willing to employ, because they would be illegal under international law (which Russia doesn't care about).
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    Even if they choose a friendly path no one will believe them. They would need to change their political class and write into their constitution clauses that punish any attack on their neighbours or even calling for such an attack as high treason. That would be a good start, but I have a feeling they are going to try to keep everything as is.
  - thriftwy 2y ago
    It is you who is trying to weaponize everything else, including the Olympics movement. It was your choice to make Olympics political and full of military messages, and then you act surprised when they start blowing up in your hands. You did not have to weaponize everything yet you did.

dralley 2y ago

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 2y ago
The official website of the insider seems to be thins.ru, not theins.press The article exists on both though https://theins.ru/en/politics/273350 https://theins.ru/en/politics/273350
- pxeger1 2y ago
  Potentially more trustworthy source: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/07/25/the-secret-life-of-agent-k-the-russian-spy-suspected-of-trying-to-destabilize-the-paris-olympics_6698331_7.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2024/07/25/the-secr...
  - orbital-decay 2y ago
    It's a collaboration with The Insider and Der Spiegel. >By Lucas Minisini, Thomas Eydoux, Charles-Henry Groult, Der Spiegel and The Insider

dukoid 2y ago

What would Reagan say to this?

criddell 2y ago
Not sure but it would probably depend on advice from his astrologer.
flag_this 2y ago
Reagan would sabotage a pipeline: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna4394002 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna4394002 NBC is mistaken of course, we learn in these threads that the West would never do such a thing.
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
  > Reagan would sabotage a pipeline: I got 'something went wrong' at the NBC link; found the info here. https://www.smh.com.au/world/cold-war-hotted-up-when-sabotaged-soviet-pipeline-went-off-with-a-bang-20040228-gdifyv.html https://www.smh.com.au/world/cold-war-hotted-up-when-sabotag...
wormlord 2y ago
[flagged]
- mdp2021 2y ago
  Was there a non evident subtle argument in your apparently gratuitous post?
  - wormlord 2y ago
    no
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      Then, https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

swader999 2y ago

[flagged]

HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
Based on what evidence?
MoOmer 2y ago
In recent days, saboteurs from Russia have been identified through shared NATO intelligence as behind attacks across Europe. [0]: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/26/why-russia-prime-suspect-massive-paris-olympics-sabotage/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/26/why-russia...

trte9343r4 2y ago

» “These games are for the athletes who have been dreaming of them for years and fighting for the holy grail of standing on the podium – and someone’s sabotaging that for them,” she said. » More than 45,000 police officers, 10,000 soldiers and 2,000 private security agents are being deployed Here it is written, games are for athletes, not for people who live in Paris. City of a few million people grinds to a halt, for several weeks. Paris does not even get any money for this "privilige", they have to pay for their own abuse!

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
Nonsense. Paris is already a huge tourism destination that benefits greatly from tourist $.
- michaelt 2y ago
  Paris is already a huge tourism destination - so it's not going to benefit from increased name recognition, or "putting the city on the map" like a less well known city might. Those hotel rooms were going to get booked at the height of summer, olympics or not. And cities the size of Paris often don't really benefit from expanding tourism - tourism jobs generally lower average salaries. And they're not just poorly paid, they're also often seasonal work. The main benefit is when there was a bunch of infrastructure you wanted to upgrade anyway, and having a strict deadline helps stop schedule over-runs.
- trte9343r4 2y ago
  There was an article that hotels are only half booked weeks and after Olympics. Tourist avoid Olympic games.
ekianjo 2y ago
> These games are for the athletes who have been dreaming of them for years and fighting for the holy grail of standing on the podium Who cares about the 0.01% when they annoy the rest of the population?
- 2y ago

blueflow 2y ago

Heh, first time? Stuff like that happens here in Germany every other year: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Anschl%C3%A4gen_im_Schienenverkehr#Seit_2021 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Anschl%C3%A4gen_im_S... (link to german wikipedia)

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

weweersdfsd 2y ago

Russia will never learn as long as they get to break every international law possible, but their opponents play by the rules. They respect only force, which so far West has been unwilling to use. Obviously direct military confrontation with Russia is undesirable, but the West could employ the very same tactics they use in the EU, or those tactics they use against political opponents in their own country. It's unfair only opponents of Putin accidentally fall out of their apartment windows.

ibejoeb 2y ago
There's on ongoing hot war with Russia right now.
- weweersdfsd 2y ago
  Yes, between Ukraine and Russia. I believe that any act of sabotage inside EU should be responded with similar act inside Russian territory.
  - ibejoeb 2y ago
    The US, UK, Netherlands, France, and Latvia have boots on the ground.
  - boricj 2y ago
    There are more efficient and effective ways to undermine the Kremlin regime than risking blackops assets on torching a couple of train lines, which would be repaired within a day anyway.
  - walleeee 2y ago
    To call the picture you're attempting to paint in this thread simplistic in the extreme would be generous. This is a proxy war and I suspect you know that.
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    I dunno about the whole tit-for-tat. Should really just start with kicking out increasing amount of diplomats and auctioning off frozen assets to pay for the recovery post some kind of legitimate trial. I never liked that sabotage was never considered a precursor for war but unfortunately we've been in the situation of allowing sabotage for a long time so now its considered not an act of war.

tjansen 2y ago

It's frightening how easy it is for an foreign actor to knock out a country's railway system. Something similar happened in Germany 2 years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2022_German_railway_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2022_German_railway_at...). I assume that it's a kind of warning by Russia or some other country. They don't even need weapons to attack countries that rely on public transport. If they'd systematically attack the railway system for a longer time, they could probably disable it for many months or even years. We can be glad we have cars, trucks and roads that are a bit more resistant to attacks.

throwaway5752 2y ago
It's not unique to Europe, or foreign agents. See https://time.com/6244977/us-power-grid-attacks-extremism/ https://time.com/6244977/us-power-grid-attacks-extremism/ as well.
- dralley 2y ago
  That was plausibly a lone actor. This was at least 4 different actors, perhaps 4 different groups of actors, executing a coordinated action simultaneously.
ein0p 2y ago
Why do you assume that it's a "foreign" actor? I think it is utterly idiotic to hold an event of such scale in a country which has seen several consecutive years of mass protests. I mean sure, you can cordon off parts of Paris with fences and razor wire, but you can't do that with all of France.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  Because nobody has claimed responsibility, and it's the sort of thing Russia does.
  - dark-star 2y ago
    Still, why not a disgruntled ex-employee or a crafty IT-security student? Finding out how GSM-R works, where the towers are and what cables you have to cut is not exactly rocket-science If the past has shown anything, then that both politics and infrastructure providers greatly overestimate the skill required for disrupting/hacking such systems and networks...

throwaway5752 2y ago

Russia already had saboteurs disrupted ahead of the Olympics, https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/24/russian-chef-arrested-in-paris-over-alleged-large-scale-olympic-games-plot-paris-2024 https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/24/russia... This is low effort. The real problem with a dictatorship is that people rise through loyalty rather than competence. The people are too afraid to call attention to the situation. You get childish actions like this as a result.

WarOnPrivacy 2y ago

Transport Minister Patrice Vergriete called the “massive attack” against the rail network an “outrageous criminal act”. He described people fleeing from the scene of fires and the discovery of incendiary devices at the sites. SNCF said many routes would have to be cancelled “at least all weekend while repairs are conducted” as thousands of rail staff were deployed to repair the damage. There is a massive attack and people fleeing; news orgs will be super aggressive about finding/publishing 1st-hand accounts. I read thru a ½doz articles and couldn't spot any, tho. If this were the US and NatSec were on the table, we could expect some overstatement of harm done and risk to the public. IDK France tho. Do French officials favor agenda or accuracy?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

paraboul 2y ago

And yet, with a new major election just around the corner, major conservative newspaper is already blaming left-wing activists without any evidence https://www.lefigaro.fr/faits-divers/sabotage-sur-le-reseau-tgv-la-piste-de-l-ultragauche-privilegiee-20240726 https://www.lefigaro.fr/faits-divers/sabotage-sur-le-reseau-...

nine_k 2y ago
Left-fringe activists could be useful tools in hands of some more nefarious powers. (Right-fringe activists could be equally useful.)

onewheeltom 2y ago

All we need is sloppy security software vendors to bring the world to a halt

kkfx 2y ago

Few notes: - cui prodest/cui bono? So far the government witch it VERY hated by Parisian at least due to their zoning and confinement of people "for safety reasons", reasons who appear justified if someone commit crimes, the same plot observed with recent "terrorist attacks" of Charlie Hebdo, Nice etc all with a sole general effect: justify surveillance and repressive power. No one else have earned anything else good for them; - you can surveil a city, many people in a dense area, full of surveillance. You can't surveil a whole country, so you can easily surveil, contain people rioting or some attacks in a city, you can't protect a long rail line across a country. No matter how much surveillance you have, even if you are so powerful to deploy cam on every place of the rails in the middle of nowhere you can just watch some masked biped attacking your infra, say hi! to the cam and disappear before even a drone jet can came; - you can't protect the society against the society, or people agree to be civil and cooperative or there is no "third party force" who can keep the order and prevent a civil war. You can protect the most against very few, nothing more, actually this means that essentially ALL government can't do nothing positive because they have essentially no popular legitimization enough to be consider "the people government system". If they try to tighten the lace a civil war will happen. If they do not any kind of anti-social activity will happen anyway, because the society is actually fractured.

Animats 2y ago

There were four sabotage teams. One team, on the line to Marseilles, was surprised by rail maintenance workers and ran away, but left some equipment, and possibly vehicles, behind.[1] [1] https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240726-sabotage-on-french-rail-network-before-olympics-what-we-know-1 https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240726-sabotage-on-f...

stevespang 2y ago
[dead]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

karaterobot 2y ago

> the attackers had started fires in "conduits carrying multiple (fibre-optic) cables" that relay "safety information for drivers" or control the motors for points that change rails... Farandou of SNCF said: "There's a huge number of bundled cables. We have to repair them one by one, it's a manual operation" requiring "hundreds of workers". Just wondering: is there a reason why there needs to be a bundle of fiber optic cables to carry safety information and control the rails? Is that not overkill? I assume wireless/cellular networking is not robust enough, but what just standard-ass copper wires, like the telephone lines? I assume the reason is that they're transmitting more than just what was named in the article, but all I know is what I read.

eaglefield 2y ago
Could be that fiber doesn't have any resale value. Whereas copper theft is a somewhat common issue.
bboygravity 2y ago
Sometimes fibre optic cables are used for reasons other than lots of bandwidth in architectures other than network A to network B. Examples: 1. transferring data near/from/to high voltage lines, without risking short circuits that cause fire/death/damage (personal experience: getting info in/out of particle accelerators that hold mega volts of tension) 2. using fibre optic cables to measure vibration or deformations (using the fibre as sensor) 3. physical layer redudancy in case of failure 4. keeping safety critical systems physically seperate from other data transfers There are probably more reasons that are possibly more on-topic. I'm definitely not a fiber applications expert.
supertrope 2y ago
Copper is distance limited. Copper oxidizes. If you are ever going to have any data transfer copper requires powered equipment at very close intervals. Metallic cabling and any equipment on the ends is vulnerable to nearby lightning.
15155 2y ago
Electrical signaling runs into ground potential differences over long distances, fiber does not - each node is optically isolated.

koliber 2y ago

This made the news yesterday: https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7785/Artykul/3407219,ukraine-detains-group-planning-arson-attacks-in-poland-and-baltic-states https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/7785/Artykul/3407219,ukraine... Apparently they did not catch all the arson teams.

DoingIsLearning 2y ago

"Vandalism", "Malicious acts", "coordinated attacks", this is the language being used by European media. Traditional media is doing EU citizens a disservice. This is state sponsored terrorism and we need to start calling a spade a spade.

standardUser 2y ago
Which state?
- derdi 2y ago
  Russia
- noah_buddy 2y ago
  If the esteemed commenters of the FT are thinking similarly to this person, Russia. It’s unfounded. Maybe not impossible, but it seems FAR more likely that it was eco-terrorism or another similar grievance. I haven’t heard one parsimonious theory for why Russia might do this.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    Pray tell, what is your "parsimonious theory" as to why it would be eco-terrorism, as opposed to a very predictable Kremlin reprisal against France's stand on the invasion of Ukraine?
    - noah_buddy 2y ago
      Well, it was probably left wing terrorism. Perhaps not ecoterrorism. At least that’s what the French government thinks. My thought process is this: what does disrupting the trains achieve for Russia? At best, nothing and, at worst, closer involvement from France in Ukraine. Why bother with a coordinated attack then? Doesn’t stand to reason. https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240729-far-left-extremists-likely-behind-france-rail-sabotage-minister-says https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240729-far-left-extremi...

baby 2y ago

This is really sad. It seems like the main theory is that it's an inside job (France is doing it to itself, specifically people disgruntled by the government and by the Olympics). France has a HUGE culture of self-hate (although if you're not French and you criticize France then that's not acceptable suddenly). Any semblance of appreciation is often seen as being nationalist or "too far right". On the other hand I don't think too much nationalism is good for a country, but at what point do people start appreciating what they have and start contributing at how France look for outsiders? I really wish we were more welcoming people as a whole, and less self-sabotaging.

bboygravity 2y ago
Self hate? more like government hate. Which in France is a reasonable survival strategy for its people judging by their history: a bunch of kings, 3 emperors, fairly corrupt governments with huge deficits etc. I don't get why self-sabotage is likely in this case though: plenty of real external enemies, including one that recently "stole" France's African empire.

tokendem 2y ago

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