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Daylight Computer – New 60fps e-paper tablet

• deleted 2y ago
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• asadm 2y ago
  Can somebody figure out display part# this uses?
  • Projectiboga 2y ago
    Display is custom made for them, it is not a part. Only way to buy is as offered.
• sparrish 2y ago
  Android 13 with 8GB RAM. I'm not familiar with the MediaTek Helio G99 CPU. Will this perform well or just be another underpowered tablet for $800?
  • 15155 2y ago
    I haven't been impressed by any Mediatek part to date.
    • boochiboo12 2y ago
      This Xiaomi tablet uses the same chip as us It’s pretty decent performance, and what makes it special is how good battery life is Check the notebook check review https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-Redmi-Pad-review-Affordable-Android-tablet-with-90-Hz-and-4-speakers.673345.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-Redmi-Pad-review-Afford...
      • sparrish 2y ago
        Who's "us"? Are you affiliated with Daylight Computer?
        • jv95 2y ago
          Based on their other post in this thread they’re the founder of daylight computer.
        • Workaccount2 2y ago
          Its the founder.
  • dtx1 2y ago
    > 2x Arm Cortex-A76 up to 2.2GHz > 6x Arm Cortex-A55 up to 2.0GHz > LPDDR4X > Arm Mali-G57 MC2 Not great, not terrible. I'd say lower middle class phone, roughly equivalent to the Snapdragon 680. The real question is longterm software and security support. I'd bet good money this will se one android update and security patches late or never at best.
    • helf 2y ago
      [dead]
    • xnx 2y ago
      They've said the bootloader is unlocked so it should never be totally obsolete.
      • snvzz 2y ago
        comments here promise an unlocking tool in the future. This is very different from shipping unlocked. Until the tool is available, I would not go anywhere near this.
  • bottom999mottob 2y ago
    At this price point, I'd much rather have an portable e-paper external display at a cheaper price. Seems quite underpowered
    • floundy 2y ago
      Indeed! A Waveshare portable e-ink monitor is $499.99 for the 10.3" size, almost identical to the Daylight's 10.5" display. The external display would also outlast this tablet device for sure. And if I'm reading the MediaTek Helio G99 specs correctly, it seems to have similar raw performance to a Raspberry Pi 5. One could easily put together a little "productivity PC" using a Pi (or a Windows mini PC), a power bank, and have the added benefit of full-fledged desktop apps rather than Android versions of them. I wanted to want to impulse buy this thing. But the above analysis, as well as the lack of any real hands-on 3rd party video-based reviews will be a no from me.
      • boochiboo12 2y ago
        if you make something comparable for $729, i will buy it from you x 10 not kidding its hard to get things made at low batch sizes with good economics! (third party video based reviews coming in the weeks ahead! youtubers hopefully will actually reply to us now after the attention of this launch) PS this review does a good job of describing the perf / tradeoffs of the G99 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-Redmi-Pad-review-Affordable-Android-tablet-with-90-Hz-and-4-speakers.673345.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Xiaomi-Redmi-Pad-review-Afford... we're gadget nerds, its not as bad as you think :) in fact, no early users have complained about performance at all, either to us or on twitter we're open to feedback on how to improve the next gen! all we ask is to judge based on actual performance on intended workloads and not specs nor crysis lol
        • xnx 2y ago
          I hope MKBHD does a review of it.
  • ranger_danger 2y ago
    define well
  • jeffhuys 2y ago
    8GB is underpowered on Android? Oof.
• spaceisballer 2y ago
  It’s funny that Tech is the source of and solution to all of our problems. But my real critique is that all portable devices these days are around $1000 dollars. I’m sure this display makes the device expensive, why can’t we just have a more humane workflow in our current devices instead of buying a new device?
  • normalaccess 2y ago
    For some, e-ink displays are the holy grail of tech. I have several e-ink devices but the real hangup is the refresh rate. If this solves that problem in a meaningful way it could be game changing.
    • jll29 2y ago
      I agree, refresh rate is an issue that is more important than energy usage, colors or life time (apparently e-ink dies quicker when viewing videos). I'm just experimenting with a USB-based external e-ink display to see if it is capable of reading/writing/editing technical documents (started last week), using a device with a 50% more affordable price point. My first impression was I needed to increase the font size to be able to work. Let's see how it goes.
      • rchaud 2y ago
        Video forces e-ink screens to redraw the scene 30 times per second. For static text like an ebook, the display redrawing the scene far less frequently, maybe once every 30 seconds, if that's how long it takes to read a page of text.
    • rchaud 2y ago
      Images look terrible on e-ink, so that's an issue as well.
    • cush 2y ago
      Some are comparing their display tech to Pebble, which was so threatening to the growing smartwatch market that Fitbit purchased the company and (for reasons I don't know) took all their IP and shelved it. I wonder if Daylight will be able to keep their mission when Amazon comes knocking
• normalaccess 2y ago
  Ohh my, on first blush this looks great.
• nathcd 2y ago
  Looks nice! I think I'd only get it if I could use it as a monitor though. Displaying more than grayscale colors would be a plus too. Still glad to see it though.
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    we aim to build a monitor, but hardware companies arent very hot for VCs, so cash flow from selling the tablet is the primary way we are going to fund building a monitor, phone, and laptop
    • cush 2y ago
      So good to hear! This seems like it would be right up the alley for a company like Nothing Phone
    • puetzk 2y ago
      > and laptop Maybe start with a screen module for a Framework laptop: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-13/tree/main/Display https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-13/tre..., before/instead of trying to engineer a laptop from scratch...
  • e-_pusher 2y ago
    You can use an app called Duet Display on it. It works quite well (can’t remember the exact ms latency now)
• NBJack 2y ago
  Oof. I hope the tablet is better than the website. I think I need to switch to a device with a dedicated GPU to see it right. My laptop is struggling, and it's running a 12th gen i5. They seem to be using a video provider that can't keep up either. Still, the tablet looks exciting, especially since it's based on Android. I'm curious as to how they overcame the refresh rate issue that plagues so many similar displays.
  • normalaccess 2y ago
    It's a transflective display. Although not E-Ink it may solve many of the same problems while having a reasonable refresh rate and less burn in. Comment from Daylight_Co https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1bk294i/comment/kvx17fc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1bk294i/comment/kvx17...
  • knowaveragejoe 2y ago
    It's strange, on an M2 with chrome I often struggle with websites like this. but this one is seamless for me.
  • Cyberdog 2y ago
    Agreed. I don't have faith they can make a usable device if they can't make a usable web page. Never break, take over, or "fix" scrolling! Never!
    • jeffhuys 2y ago
      It shows, to me, that they only tried their website on a "normal" mouse with scrollwheel. My trackpad does (sub-)pixel scrolling guys! I'm used to having full control over websites. Those that take away that control feel sluggish and unprofessional (this JS snippet makes our scrolling cool!), and distracts me away from the (sparse!) content.
  • tedunangst 2y ago
    I wonder how well the tablet renders its own homepage.
• deleted 2y ago
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• andrewcchen 2y ago
  It's not an e-ink display, but rather a monochrome transreflective lcd. [1] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1bk294i/comment/kvx17fc/ https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1bk294i/comment/kvx17...
  • normalaccess 2y ago
    Hmmm, a little disappointed but I'm I still very interested. My favorite smart watch was a pebble and they used a transflective display, I loved it. If this is more of the same but refined and bigger count me in.
    • boochiboo12 2y ago
      It is a Godzilla pebble watch I hope you will be pleased
      • modeless 2y ago
        I hope you don't meet the same fate as Pebble. Maybe you can do a watch next?
        • boochiboo12 2y ago
          need more feedback on what the use case / killer apps to nail of a 'pebble watch returns' would be
          • modeless 2y ago
            Week+ battery life, truly always on, sunlight readable, much smaller size/thickness and thus more comfortable than all other smart watches. For me, the use case of a smartwatch is notifications. It lets me keep my phone on silent all the time without missing important messages or calls. Proper filtering is important so you don't get notification spam on your wrist but some notifications truly are important and checking them without taking out my phone, and even sending a quick reply, is awesome. I also use the "extend unlock" feature of Android which works with any Bluetooth device but especially well with one that is always on your wrist. Locating a lost phone is another great feature. Timers and alarms are a given of course. Maps navigation directions on your wrist can also be useful (but you get this for free with a proper implementation of notifications). To me the paradox of the wearables market is that it seems like the only reason people buy them is as fitness trackers which they are actually pretty bad at. The numbers they report might as well be made up in many cases, and the weird metrics they provide aren't useful. The sensors make the watch thicker and less comfortable too. Meanwhile, it's actually super useful to have phone notifications on your wrist, but people don't seem interested, and e.g. Android Wear really sucks at it. (Can't speak for the Apple Watch as I don't have an iPhone, but I've always felt that the hardware design was ugly.)
• rchaud 2y ago
  the site loads OK, but keeps crashing when I scroll to the "animated text on scroll" section . I'm on Brave Android on a phone with 12GB RAM.
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    should be fixed now, does it work for you? thanks for helping report a bug
• boochiboo12 2y ago
  Hi yall, founder of Daylight here. Happy to answer any questions you have. Long time lurker, so this is pretty cool to finally take part :) I made this because I wanted the eye-strain free and minimalist qualities of my kindle/Eink applied to so much more of what I do on a computer. Lack of speed and ghosting felt like it made traditional Eink impossible to do most computing tasks. So we focused on making the most Paperlike epaper display that has no ghosting and high refresh rate - 60 to 120fps. We started working on this in 2018. We developed our own custom epaper display tech we call LivePaper. We focused on solving the tradeoffs RLCDs traditionally have - around reflectance %, metallic-look / not Paperlike enough, viewing angle, white state, rainbow mura, parallax, resolution, size, lack of quality backlight, etc. First proof of concept in late 2021, and then it took us 2.5 years to get it into production. And we built a whole android tablet around it. It’s essentially our attempt at making a remarkable tablet on steroids / kindle on steroids. Definitely some trade offs, but on the whole we think it’s worth it. (& on twitter a bunch of early customers seem to think so too) Note: it’s 60fps epaper, not off the shelf Eink. We spent years developing what we think is the best epaper display in the world and it’s exclusively manufactured by our display factory in Japan. There’s still many cases where traditional Eink is going to be better (bistability, viewing angle, white state color, etc), but we feel for more general purpose computers you can code on and do google docs on and do fast multitouch amongst a thousand other things, the speed and lack of ghosting totally makes it worth it. Think of it as a Godzilla sized pebble watch with a decade of improvement Or think of it as a gameboy advanced, advanced
  • timmg 2y ago
    How hard will it be to scale up resolution/dpi with your tech? Hopefully you’ll be successful enough to make more devices. Just curious if there is a path to “retina” displays.
  • achow 2y ago
    It does look great. Any plans of supplying the ePaper display to OEM's like Amazon, Remarkable, etc.?
  • dcan 2y ago
    Any plans to sell just the display?
• dmitrygr 2y ago
  More or less the same screen tech as some old Sony PalmOS PDAs like SJ20 from the 2000s: Transflective greyscale LCD. Glad they are making a comeback. They were nice. I still use an SJ20 to read ebooks for this very reason. Plus, they can be had for $10 on eBay.
  • e-_pusher 2y ago
    Source: I was the chief hardware engineer for this project. Thanks for your comment! I grew up using a Palm III that was already super old when I had it in high school. But years later, my fond memories of the sense of focus I had using it became a major inspiration for deciding to join Anjan’s team for this project :)
    • msephton 2y ago
      I'd be interested to hear more about the specific screen tech and the how it compares with the ~2000s.
• mattkevan 2y ago
  Yeah this looks like a cool device. I love my Remarkable, but the lack of backlight and slow refresh rate means it’s not as versatile as it could be. A tablet that has similar screen properties to eink but with a backlight and 60fps would be much more usable, especially at night.
  • edderkopp 2y ago
    Indeed. Another advantage of this tablet over Remarkable is that it should be possible to set up synchronization with many more cloud services, including Nextcloud. Remarkable is limited to the biggest commercial cloud providers.
    • funksta 2y ago
      Furthermore, reMarkable doesn't actually sync anything. You can download files from the cloud but it's a one-way, user-initiated thing
      • mattkevan 2y ago
        I dunno, it seems to sync your notebooks back up to the cloud & other devices pretty well. It’s £3/month after the first year, but it still syncs. https://remarkable.com/store/connect https://remarkable.com/store/connect
        • funksta 2y ago
          Sorry, you're right in terms of their own cloud. I meant the syncing with Google Drive, Dropbox, etc, which is quite limited
  • deleted 2y ago
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• cwrichardkim 2y ago
  Can you tell us a bit more about the OS? does it resemble stock android or would it be unrecognizable for most people? Tiny bit of feedback: the cart doesn't make it clear what the founder's edition is
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    it can pretty easily become / look like stock android if you switch out our launcher for one of your preference we also gonna come out with a bootloader unlock tool so you can customize it to your hearts content goal is to be hacker/DIY friendly.. we'll get better and better with this over time
• kepano 2y ago
  I've been dreaming of a device like this to run Obsidian on. I made an e-ink theme for Obsidian[1] but the refresh rate and ghosting of e-ink makes it less appealing to work with. I am curious to see if this device will solve some of those issues. [1] https://minimal.guide/features/eink https://minimal.guide/features/eink
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    we have a couple units set aside for devs to optimize their apps to the daylight, email me and we can try to get you one! many of our early testers / customers loved using it as an obsidian typewriter anjan 'at' daylightcomputer.com
    • kepano 2y ago
      I preordered one already but will do!
    • ghotli 2y ago
      In one of the pictures on the site was it sitting on a dock with a keyboard. I use obsidian and would use this as an obsidian typewriter. If I order is it just the tablet itself or more? I presume it runs Linux so any keyboard that would work in that environment would work with the device? Even better if I can ssh into it. Edit: I see elsewhere in this thread that it’s android. If I can adb shell into it and push my own custom launcher to it, I’ll buy one today :)
• ant6n 2y ago
  I dunno, after the steaming pile that the Dasun Color Monitor turned out to be (some notes of mine here [1]), I’m kind of weary of this e-ink thing. The problem isn’t just ghosting and slowness, I could deal with that. It’s also reflective, very poor contrast, bad dithering, awful color reproduction. One would have to hold it in ones hand first. …very cool looking project though. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40364254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40364254
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    we're not eink like them! see my comment here :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40457491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40457491
    • ant6n 2y ago
      That’s not really the point. The point is that companies will sell these new technologies and make the product seem great in their marketing material. Which for screens can be especially annoying. At least for an apple I can ran into the next store and find out that yes the screen is nice, but it’s still pretty reflective.
• vineyardlabs 2y ago
  Any more specific numbers on battery life? I see it says "days" on the website, but I'm curious if there's an hours number with usage condition specified (ie, screen on, reading a book, etc.)
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    still doing more testing, but some test results: - reading without amber backlight: 67 hours - youtube without amber backlight: 30 hours - reading with 30% amber brightness: 30 hours
    • vineyardlabs 2y ago
      That sounds fantastic, thanks.
  • e-_pusher 2y ago
    Source: I was the chief hardware engineer for this device. Anjan can comment further to see if the team these days has any further optimizations in store, but with my personal Daylight tablet anecdotally, these days I am charging it every other week, and using it for 1-2 hours a day to browse the web and read PDFs. I usually have a low backlight setting on it.
    • vineyardlabs 2y ago
      Awesome, thanks!
• ax0ar 2y ago
  I got super hyped first when I saw all the details. I use a Boox Page and love the device. This would be a super nice addition which could act as a fully functional tablet. But then I saw the price tag, and that it’s only 190 ppi. That killed it immediately for me. I hated the first few generations of Kindle because of the low resolution display. I think it’s unbearable in an e-ink display. And the price is a bit outrageous for what it offers..
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    i think your feedback is fair. if you're open to a few considerations: - with monochrome pixels (ie no RGB subpixels), resolution is not really apples to apples.. things look a lot crisper subjectively than their objective resolution spec i think a bunch of early customers have tweeted out their reactions to resolution/crispness. id encourage you to ask them for their feedback if you were still curious not claiming its perfect, just that its not as bad as you think it is. (PS we chose this resolution specifically cuz it results in a larger aperture ratio which enables a brighter screen.. we had other experiments at 220-240ppi, but we couldn't really tell a difference in resolution, and the brightness difference was palpable) PPS on price - not much we can do here, extremely difficult to get even the price we did on low batch totally new custom displays.. we're proud of what we're able to do, but we understand there's a tesla roadster effect of sorts.. starts our expensive, and successive generations will ride the cost curve down tremendously but cant get there without early supporters. so you choose anon! more economical samsung, or more pricey (but worth it?) indies like us!
    • cchance 2y ago
      As you should be proud its a really cool product, but the price points definitly going to lock you into a very small niche audience, it's just too expensive for me your in the price range of full blown ipad air's and technically more expensive than them, with a cool screen tech, great readability, and paper feel, but... no where near the ecosystem or use cases i'd imagine and again, more expensive.
      • breakfastduck 2y ago
• dot5xdev 2y ago
  I'm a current owner of a Ratta Supernote A5X. I use the Supernote all the time. I previously had a Remarkable 2, but thankfully Remarkable added a subscription which made me look elsewhere and led me to the Supernote. This seems right up my alley. Although, $800 seems steep. The new Supernote A5X2 is due this year... at probably half the price? Granted it doesn't have the 60fps display, but it definitely has a bunch of other features. Is the 60fps worth $400 more?
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    you're right, for some folks it's not gonna be worth the price increase we understand that, and we hope we can bring the price down with scale for some of the folks who its worth it for, some of the reasons are: - onenote or noteshelf or goodnotes on eink working without lag makes it worth it - obsidian or google docs or your terminal working without latency - you end up reading way more substacks, articles, blogs, things in the browser - dragon ball z on eink is fun :)
  • jeron 2y ago
    $800 is ridiculously steep. I could buy 8 kindles for that price
    • Tepix 2y ago
      You're ignoring the 60fps and the display size for starters.
    • mdp2021 2y ago
      It is the same range of current high end E-Ink based Android tablets. (See for example the Onyx Boox Ultra C.)
• sevg 2y ago
  @boochiboo12 Looks like a really interesting device! I have one question about one of the taglines on the home page "A distraction free space". What are the things inherent to the OS that make it distraction free? Is it Android with notifications ripped out?
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    the simplest mod is notifications off by default but we've got a bunch of things in the pipeline also for example, one sec like 'app delaying / intentional friction' functionalities built into the OS
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• fuzztester 2y ago
  I always preferred amber to green when using monochrome PC monitors way back.
• garyrob 2y ago
  My biggest need is for an ebook reader. What abilities does it have in that area? Having trouble finding info on that on the web site.
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    - run the kindle app (android app) - run epub readers like lithium reader - use our PDF reader or others like adobe - go into the browser and download books - use google play books and its beautiful page flip animation lol
    • garyrob 2y ago
      Excellent! Thanks!
• antisthenes 2y ago
  Without going into pricing details, what's the longevity of an e-ink device at 60fps? As far as I understand it, e-ink has essentially a "finite" albeit a very large number of refreshes available, when moving the "nodules" to display different images. Has the issue been solved? E.g. will users be able to get at least 5-7 years of heavy usage out of this device? Or will this become e-waste after 2-3 years?
  • naikrovek 2y ago
    It’s not eink, it’s a reflective lcd whose design tradeoffs were tweaked for what this manufacturer wanted. While technically it is an lcd, reflective lcds are extremely readable in sunlight and use very little power to maintain the image on screen. An epaper/eink display uses zero power to maintain the display and uses electrostatic manipulation to refresh the screen.
  • wkat4242 2y ago
    As it's not eink but LCD there shouldn't be refresh limits.
• thih9 2y ago
  Is there an independent review, preferably video?
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    coming! should be a bunch of unofficial ones on twitter
    • thih9 2y ago
      Does anyone have links? I don't have a twitter account, search seems login walled.
• beckthompson 2y ago
  Man looked super cool but its just too expensive for me. I hope you guys are successful so your price point can go down a little so I can buy one in the future!
• localfirst 2y ago
  this is good enough to game on
• turtlebits 2y ago
  IMO, the software will be the most important part of the device, not necessarily the screen. What makes the Remarkable great is that it's functionality (while limited) makes for an excellent experience. Any more details on what apps will be built in and designed for the device? (not just 3rd party Android apps that will feel like any other tablet). Also - I would order this immediately to support more e-ink devices, but the display is too small for me - at least 13" to display full page documents.
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    we've built our own PDF parser / renderer, so we have a pretty good beta PDF reader app we're building next up would be epub reader / support and then building our own notetaker & typewriter app (though google docs, lex.page, IA writer are pretty good) and many more services and apps, like actually finally good handwriting recognition
    • goatking 2y ago
      Why PDF first? Isn't reading Ebooks (in ebook format) the main use case for such devices?
      • KeplerBoy 2y ago
        Once you're approaching regular paper size, PDF is king. There are just so, so many documents out there which were laid out with A4 paper in mind, which can't really be converted to any other format with reasonable effort. Just think of every research paper published ever. People who are primarily reading books aren't really in the market for this kind of device. You can read books just fine on any old kindle and it's far more comfortable on a smaller, lighter device.
      • turtlebits 2y ago
        Likely to focus on use cases for their display tech. Ebooks are already solved and faster refresh won't meaningfully improve the experience over other devices.
    • 2y ago
• faxmeyourcode 2y ago
  To me the videos are absolutely mind blowing, congratulations on the launch. It feels like a leap forward in an area of tech that has totally stagnated (e-ink). I think this device is tackling a few hard problems all at once. Well done and I wish you luck.
  • mdp2021 2y ago
    > the videos Please note (you will find info in these very pages) that they are tentative, made on prototypes. And they were apparently meant to be demonstrative of capabilities, not of real-life experience. The Company says they will be updated.
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• BadHumans 2y ago
  I need this to have a dedicated drawing app with layers for me to even consider this. None of the eink tablets right now have good drawing apps even if you can technically do it.
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    you can try concepts on our thing! its a pretty damn good drawing app / procreate alt
  • e-_pusher 2y ago
    I like Wacom’s own drawing app for sketching! https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wacom.bamboopapertab&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wacom.bamb...
• msephton 2y ago
  I have to see that the way you're managing the pre-orders and batches on your website is exemplary. Congrats to your web team!
• heavyset_go 2y ago
  Is this running a forked kernel and do you plan on mainlining the changes you made to Linux?
  • deleted 2y ago
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• tristor 2y ago
  I am not an Android user, but I primarily rely on a cross-platform note taking app that supports Android. Does Android with this device support OS-native OCR to convert writing to text? I'm curious if this is usable with Standard Notes. I currently own and use a reMarkable 2 daily, and then transcribe notes to Standard Notes when I'm near my computer. Would love something that lets me skip the transcription step with the advantages of e-ink / writing with a stylus.
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    standard notes has an android app you could use! https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.standardnotes&hl=en_US&pli=1 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.standardno... and we're working on OS level native OCR in the meantime you could use myscript nebo https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.myscript.nebo&hl=en_US&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.myscript.n...
    • tristor 2y ago
      It looks like Nebo is an alternative note-taking app? I will email the Standard Notes dev team and see if they are planning to do the lift for OCR on this type of device. I see upthread someone has mentioned Obsidian will do so.
• layer8 2y ago
  It would be nice for e-ink to eventually get better contrast than this: https://daylightcomputer.com/_next/static/media/split-comparison-2.dd0a3a74.png https://daylightcomputer.com/_next/static/media/split-compar...
  • boochiboo12 2y ago
    our contrast can vary depending on the lighting envrionment, its the nature of non lambertian reflective displays with optical gain most of the time its pretty good! in dimmer environments, you can boost contrast by boosting the backlight a bit
    • layer8 2y ago
      The photo I linked to supposedly is how the tablet looks like in full sunlight, which I would assume would exhibit the best possible contrast. But the background is awfully dim (around #987 in the photo) (also in comparison to the white frame), and the text isn't very black (around #433). This looks like a contrast ratio of roughly 4:1. The photo probably isn't the best, e-ink displays usually have a contrast ratio of around 15:1. But that's still very low, printers can achieve a 100-200:1 contrast ratio for black ink on white paper.
• freitasm 2y ago
  I was just trying to order one. But only available to ship to a limited list of countries.
• danlitt 2y ago
  Why?! The point of eink is that it's slow refresh.
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• minzi 2y ago
  Out of curiosity, how did you decide on the size of the device? Was it driven by cost considerations, preferences of the founding team, something else? I think it’s a little too big for me, but I’m tempted.
• edderkopp 2y ago
  What is included in the price in addition to the tablet itself? Stylus? Cover? Is it possible to fasten the stylus to the tablet/cover such that the stylus doesn't get lost easily? If the stylus gets lost, is it possible to purchase a new one?
• codingpanic 2y ago
  Love that you are calling a tablet what it really is: a computer. Now for a crazy question: does the Daylight Computer support an external full color display via a usb-c dock? Color when you need it… epaper when you don’t.
• mintplant 2y ago
  Epilepsy warning if you're on Firefox! The page background rapidly flashes between black to white: https://streamable.com/85wbac https://streamable.com/85wbac The flashing is much more rapid than shows up in my screen recording. (Firefox 126.0 on Windows 11)
• firstSpeaker 2y ago
  Is there any video/comparison for the software functionality with the likes of Kindle Scribeb, ReMarkable, etc. for note taking?
• heliostatic 2y ago
  Ordered. Can you recommend a stand that has worked well? Love the vision.
• dash2 2y ago
  Very interested to see this. I have a Supernote which has passed the basic gadget test: I still use it regularly after the initial few weeks. But it's true that it is limited to (a) taking notes in meetings and (b) reading and annotating PDFs. I wonder what more I would do with a truly fast screen.
• Tijdreiziger 2y ago
  I’m only able to see the page for a split second before it throws a full-screen ‘application error’.
• gillygize 2y ago
  It looks like it currently doesn’t ship to Japan. Any plans to include Japan in the future? I would have pre-ordered already if it did.
• lastdong 2y ago
  One thing that disappointed me with rM2 was the broken promise of developing your apps, rm2 became pretty closed (or not as easy and accessible) ecosystem, and I think it suffered. Most people on rM1 praised their DIY and hackability. Daydream looks beautiful, I hope they incentivise apps creation for the everyday engineer, who likes to tinker in spare time - it is Android
• yencabulator 2y ago
  Android 13, at a time when 15 will likely be production ready in a few months, seems to hint at a risk of not getting updates.
• zbowling 2y ago
  Sol:OS... it's just Android but we have to call it an OS I guess
• 698969 2y ago
  Where do I invest?
• yismail 2y ago
  product aside, I thought the design of the website and the branding was quite sleek, kudos to the team.
• CarVac 2y ago
  Would be neat to have this display for the Framework 13...
• RistrettoMike 2y ago
  Looks great! I have a Boox tablet from a few years ago that I'm still using sporadically, and can't quite justify replacing yet, but if I was in the market this would be very, very appealing. Congrats to the team on the launch! :)
• leetrout 2y ago
  I wish you the very best of luck. I bought a remarkable and while it works well the price is the most remarkable thing about it. Remarkable is also remarkably unfriendly toward their user base to be built on so much open source tech. They recently had a IP watchgroup file takedowns for template building materials on figma. Really onerous move given it is perfectly valid nominative fair use to say a template is made for the remarkable 2 the same as you would say something is made for an ipad.
  • echelon 2y ago
    > bought a remarkable and while it works well The Remarkable 2 is slow and clunky and starting to show its age. The refresh rate and CPU were slow when the device debuted, and now they're really feeling dated. Navigation through menus and sidebars is tedious, and the UI isn't very customizable for my workflow. There's too much clutter for things I never use, and the bad UI won't get out of the way. The new updates with gestures have broken the original ergonomics. The device now false detects a lot of interactions that I'm not trying to perform. I'm really hoping for intense competition in this space.
• efields 2y ago
  Enjoy my $100 deposit. Such a cool thing you’ve made!
• serf 2y ago
  I'm excited for all these epaper devices for use on my sailboat. Everyone uses tablets + Navionics, but glass tablets absolutely suck in bright daylight. It will be nice to find an ePaper device that I trust enough to use for charts.
  • siralonso 2y ago
    Ditto, except in my glider! I would appreciate a slightly smaller form factor, though - the cockpit in the Libelle is a bit... tight.
  • jval43 2y ago
    A 2000 nits bright iPhone is perfectly usable outside in bright sunlight. The brightest iPad (iPad Pro) is currently 1000 nits. Not quite there yet, but I'm sure the next generations will only improve.
• amlozano 2y ago
  This is awesome, I ordered one. Please bring this display technology to larger formats if it ever makes sense economically, this is like the dream for a wall calendar.
• Vegenoid 2y ago
  I'm too wary to be an early adopter, but I'm glad that there are many people who are stoked about getting in on this. If it turns out to be as great as it seems, it will be a dream come true.
• Atlasnowboarder 2y ago
  I would love a 15" portable external monitor based on this tech, hopefully thin enough that I can hang it in front of my laptop screen and use it to code outside. Would pay top dollar for something like that.
• pedalpete 2y ago
  Congrats on the launch. I've owned a few Boox devices and a Kindle. I love e-ink for reading and note taking. I don't need my entire computer, but definitely useful for a few things. If I hadn't bought a Kindle Scribe just 5 months ago, I'd have picked this up right away - if I come into some funds in the next little while, I just might anyway. Lots of opportunity for improvement over the kindle. I'd love to see a deep-dive on your screen tech and understand how you built it. I love clever engineering. Hopefully you'll be public on some of that stuff. I'm assuming you have patents, so it's out there somewhere, but hearing from you about the process of creation I think would be really interesting. On your website the "Who we are - A more caring computer company" doesn't link to anywhere. I think you're missing a great opportunity to tell us more about you. Looking forward to your success!
• LelouBil 2y ago
  Wow it looks wonderful ! And just when I was thinking about buying a remarkable... Hopefully I can get one for September. Also, being on HN and all, how tinkerer friendly is it ? Already the fact that it's android and not a custom locked down os is great but, can I unlock it's bootloader and sideload custom roms for example ?
• earlyriser 2y ago
  Are you going to sell LivePaper as an electronic component or it's just going to be available for Daylight devices?
• johnobrien1010 2y ago
  Good demo videos: https://daylightco.notion.site/Eye-Strain-Free-w-the-Daylight-Tablet-7efec89ce5134f0ca5718d29bb2466e3 https://daylightco.notion.site/Eye-Strain-Free-w-the-Dayligh...
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
• robgibbons 2y ago
  Really compelling product. Is the light temperature adjustable?
  • e-_pusher 2y ago
    Source: I was the chief hw engineer for this product. Yes - the backlight temperature allows you to adjust it from a pure (albeit on the warmer side) white to pure amber.
    • robgibbons 2y ago
      Thanks very much for responding. You mentioned backlight, and forgive my ignorance, but is this type of E-paper not front-lit?
      • circuit10 2y ago
        It’s not actually normal e-ink, it’s a kind of LCD, that’s why they say e-paper and not e-ink I think it’s like the kind of LCD you see on calculators and clocks and the original Game Boy, that doesn’t need a backlight to be visible but can have one
• freshpretzels 2y ago
  Looks like a beautiful device, congratulations on your launch!
• enduser 2y ago
  This looks really neat and I’d love to see if it becomes a viable replacement for rM2. For now it reminded me that I can set my OLED iPad to monochrome (via Accessibility > Display > Color Filters and crank up Night Shift). I just added shortcuts to my dock to toggle between these modes. Now I have the best of all worlds.. Typing this from my Magic Keyboard at 120fps 264ppi in warm monochrome. I do wish I could get a graphite tip for the Pencil Pro to use on the textured screen.
  • mofeien 2y ago
    Thanks for the inspiration. Works on android 14, too, under accessibility options -> color correction, and you can set a two finger swipe up gesture to switch between the modes.
    • 4b11b4 2y ago
      I'm usually in black and white. Can also get the accessibility icon to permanently show up in the bottom right corner of the bottom bar.
• dbcurtis 2y ago
  What is the hobbyist developer experience? It’s very interesting but I mostly quit buying computation devices that I can’t hack on. Yeah, I’m not your market, but I gotta ask…
• teleforce 2y ago
  News story from Pocket-lint: The Daylight DC-1 is a 'healthier' tablet that mimics e-ink without the lag: https://www.pocket-lint.com/daylight-dc1-tablet/ https://www.pocket-lint.com/daylight-dc1-tablet/
• matt-p 2y ago
  This looks fantastic! Congratulations, really amazing work. It's unfortunate it's twice the price of others in the field like remarkable, it's a little bit beyond what I'd buy for "that seems cool, I might use it from time to time"
• snvzz 2y ago
  Browser scroll behavior override alert.
• CGamesPlay 2y ago
  Mind sharing which website builder you used so I can avoid them like the plague? I see other complaints here, but for me it completely fails to show anything, saying that a client-side error occurred (iOS 16.6.1), in a full-screen modal with text selection disabled.
  • hn_version_0023 2y ago
    Same problem, iOS 17.4.1
  • rrr_oh_man 2y ago
    https://whatcms.org/?s=daylightcomputer.com https://whatcms.org/?s=daylightcomputer.com It looks self made
• RodgerTheGreat 2y ago
  A pen-tablet with a transflective display and a commodity OS is very compelling. I've been working for a few years on a "multimedia sketchpad"[0] application with a primarily grayscale UI that screams for a device like this. I imagine the browser port might already work acceptably, but perhaps I'll revisit a native Android port with the Daylight in mind... [0] http://beyondloom.com/decker/ http://beyondloom.com/decker/
• arathis 2y ago
  Oddly enough I find having apps (like Spotify) a turn off. I love my Kindle + it's extended battery life. Navigation is a bit of a pain in the ass, but otherwise I find it really great at just being a light-weight device for reading. Looks beautiful though (and I found the website to be nice too!)
• ulfw 2y ago
  A bit odd on the marketing front. Marketing it as an outdoorsy tablet "sunlight readable" but then won't be available before the summer is over (October+)
• kasperset 2y ago
  Would 190dpi screen be a deal breaker? Just wondering because Kindle scribe has around 300dpi.
• codpiece 2y ago
  I just ordered one, too! I'm a huge fan of eInk tablets and always loved the Pebble display. Your design is very clean, and the screen quality looks beautiful. I can't wait to run this as a thin client to my Lenovo P920 ML workstation.
• milani 2y ago
  Congrats on the launch! I was scrolling and everything on the hardware looked great (although I was looking for how the tech is different from e-ink, not how better its properties are). Then I reached "Introducing Sol:OS" and stopped right there. Didn't look further and closed the tab. I'm skeptical when it comes to custom OS. Not a lot of startups can handle a hardware+software company. Hardware is hard enough. Software is second class citizen and doesn't get regular updates after a few years.
  • vineyardlabs 2y ago
    It’s just an android rom tho?
• grugagag 2y ago
  A whiff of fresh air into the scene. Please keep it relatively simple but performant but with the user in mind. And no, this doesn’t need to have any AI in it.
• gsuuon 2y ago
  Excited for this, have tried out various e-ink things previously and the fast refresh seems like a game changer. Any chance a color version will be possible with this tech? Also - larger (monitor size) screens? I'd love to use this for coding outdoors as well as reading.
• razodactyl 2y ago
  Doesn't ship to Australia :( But checkout with Bitcoin Lightning :O
• srithon 2y ago
  I've been in the market for an e-ink tablet for a while, but was always turned off by the ghosting and low refresh rates. It's out of my price point right now, but if it gets cheaper for future generations, I'll definitely buy it!
• Zuiii 2y ago
  I have the remarkable and the main reason I don't use it and use an android tablet (with a normal screen) instead is because of the remarkable's bad software support; can't sync documents and notes securely (e2ee) using standard tooling. Put money in supporting mainline linux distributions and I will buy this in a heartbeat. Many would.
  • goda90 2y ago
    Looks like this is essentially an Android tablet. Not quite mainline Linux but lots of software options.
    • Zuiii 2y ago
      I am only using android as a compromise because it can run the bare minimum software I need and I couldn't find a similar device that runs standard Linux. Unfortunately, Google appears to be adding new limits to what software on Android is allowed to do with each update. I don't think android will continue to be a viable option for me for much longer. Standard linux support is likely going to be mandatory. Whether it's from daylight, pine64, framework, or any of the other OEMs working in this space, I don't care. I'll gladly pay anything for a good tablet that does what I need it to do.
      • deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  • jcul 2y ago
    Wow that's interesting, would be really cool to use this as a linux tablet.
• est 2y ago
  today's e-ink displays could provide some sort of color, can anyone tweak the color for coding friendly so we can use it in editor or terminal? Just 8 colors would be sufficient for most programming tasks.
• hkab 2y ago
  Absolutely love the idea! Although I'll wait for a while for reviews, congrats on the launch!
• nickzelei 2y ago
  Nice! This is really neat. I love e-paper but like many others in this thread, wish it was better. This seems to be a really good alternative. I had to pause at the price though.
• MBCook 2y ago
  I wish it had page turn buttons. I bought an Oasis entirely because of the buttons. Once again Amazon has killed their only reader with buttons. They clearly don’t care much about Kindles in general, they’ve had software issues like missing features forever that Amazon doesn’t care about fixing. This lacks ghosting, the screen and CPU are fast enough not to be obnoxious when doing literally anything (low bar, but Kindle). It’s USB-C, and since it runs Android apps it runs the Kindle app. But no page turn buttons. I get those don’t matter for a normal tablet, but to me their do for an e-reader. I guess it’s just as well, they probably wouldn’t work in the Kindle app anyway.
  • otoburb 2y ago
    >>I wish it had page turn buttons. I had the same thought, and then I realized that they claim to have customizable "action buttons" which supposedly can be used to turn the page if that's the action that was configured. They seem to be on the top and not on the side, but at least two of them are there.
    • MBCook 2y ago
      Oh I didn’t notice that part. That could work.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • e-_pusher 2y ago
    Source: I was the chief hw designer for this project. The tablet does have page turn buttons! There is a side button and a top button. The side button in particular is nice as a page turn button.
    • MBCook 2y ago
      Oh great!
• abhinavsharma 2y ago
  What is the magazine article they’re flipping through?
  • tern 2y ago
    Unflattening by Nick Sousanis and The Shape of Design by Frank Chimero ;)
• King-Aaron 2y ago
  What's with the weird static effect you've overlaid on the images here? It's quite hard on the eyes.
• londons_explore 2y ago
  This screen, but built into a proper laptop please. I want to actually do work from outdoors.
  • Benanov 2y ago
    The only laptop that fits the bill is the OLPC XO. The XO-1 is 18 years old... and yes I did work outside a few times, with rdesktop
    • londons_explore 2y ago
      I still use my XO-1 for work I can do with a console (via SSH with vi, tmux, etc). Alas, a web browser is kinda required for modern dev work, and an 18 year old machine with 128 MB of ram doesn't cut it. rdesktop, x forwarding, vnc, etc are all too slow. I considered removing the screen and trying to transplant it to a modern machine, but it looks like many months work to rebuild the electrical interfaces and custom pixel layouts etc.
      • AlanYx 2y ago
        There's a small DIY community who take XO-1 displays and installs them in old ThinkPads. It may not be as challenging as it first appears.
        • londons_explore 2y ago
          oooh - any links?
• nbzso 2y ago
  Nah. I would wait for an ink display with 60 fps. SaaS is not the future of computing. I need control. For artistic purposes, an iPad and Wacom tablet are enough. But cool product for a rich audience. Why you call it "computer" and then a tablet. Just call it a tablet with apps in the cloud. :)
  • nashashmi 2y ago
    So what makes this great is the battery life, the thinness, and visibility in the sun.
  • goda90 2y ago
    There are lots of Android apps that don't need the cloud. This can run those.
• fphhotchips 2y ago
  Not shipping internationally is a pretty frustrating decision. This device is almost exactly what I want, but I can't buy it because you... can't put it in a DHL box with a different country's name on it? Congrats on the launch, but this is kind of a kick in the nuts. Mild edit: I checked a UK address and it turns out you can put it in a DHL box with a different country's name on it, you just can't print the word Australia on the box. Nice. If this is because the device can't stand up to kangaroo rides, can I have one if I assure you that I won't take it with me when I hop to the shops?
  • kalleboo 2y ago
    It's not just "slap it in a DHL box", you have to register with GST etc. https://www.ato.gov.au/other-languages/information-in-other-languages/gst/goods-and-services-tax-gst-when-you-sell-to-australia https://www.ato.gov.au/other-languages/information-in-other-... Selling internationally in 2024 is a minefield.
• against_entropy 2y ago
  so the only problem now is that, it's black and white, not full color
• lihua12138 2y ago
  [dead]
• genevra 2y ago
  Wow, wondered when the next advancement was coming in epaper and now it's here
• edoardo-schnell 2y ago
  Still just a tablet... Damn, been waiting for a viable e-paper laptop monitor for a decade now
• terrycody 2y ago
  60Hz, my god, finally a mature product comes.
• zombiwoof 2y ago
  729 dollars. Massive miss
• wkat4242 2y ago
  Very interesting product! Being here in Europe (Spain) the price point makes it a non-starter though. Especially with only a mediatek G99 (the same that was in my 110€ Samsung A9 Tablet). However it's a nice idea and perhaps one that can become more mainstream and thus affordable. It's something I would buy if the price were right.
• alabhyajindal 2y ago
  This is very cool! Congrats on the launch!
• tassadarforaiur 2y ago
  Being able to use my ipad as an extra monitor is one of the main reasons I always carry it around. It might be too late for this model, but enabling the tablet to be used as a USB monitor, with all tablet functionality / storage hidden from the PC OS, or as a wi-di monitor, would easily justify a large chunk of the cost for some of us, and provide the tablet a useful life long past its last android os update.
• coin 2y ago
  What an obnoxious website to use on a mobile device
  • yoyopa 2y ago
    don't worry it's obnoxious on desktop too
  • jesterson 2y ago
    It's 21st centrury and unfortunate prevalence of form over substance.
• yoyopa 2y ago
  Could you make the bezel any larger?
• fyrn_ 2y ago
  Now if only this display manufacturer and Framework could collab, it would be so cool to swap a LivePaper display onto framework devices
• yoyopa 2y ago
  what is the warranty you are offering?
• a2128 2y ago
  I got to try one of these a while back and I personally have to say it's a bit generous to call them e-paper. These are more like reflective LCDs you'd see in a GameBoy. You'll notice all marketing photos of it are in either direct sunlight or have the backlight on. I compared it to my reMarkable in an indoor setting and I would honestly prefer the reMarkable's low FPS over the Daylight's low reflectivity for reading books or taking notes. Of course this all changes if you plan to watch videos or whatever on it - but for me personally the value proposition of an e-paper tablet is not about being able to consume that kind of stuff.
  • nabeards 2y ago
    Thanks for this info. I was wondering if you could turn off the backlight, would it be more like the reMarkable (which I love).
    • a2128 2y ago
      In the version I tested you can adjust the backlight brightness or turn it off completely at any time, it's a bit like the reMarkable but about half as reflective (the whites are more like gray). If you turn on the backlight then it's effectively just a normal backlit tablet but with a monochrome display and night color mode. If you're indoors without the sun shining directly at the tablet or without good lighting, in my experience you need to use the backlight for it to be usable, whereas the reMarkable is much more reflective and as easy to read as normal paper in any lighting conditions.
• markive 2y ago
  I'm really excited about this device for B2B. No glare, but with a backlight and excellent battery life make this a great option for Engineering. The only thing that's missing here is a rear camera. Fingers crossed this is considered in the future!
• davelondon 2y ago
  tl/dr: it's marketed as e-paper, but it's not e-paper... it's reflective LCD.
• karunamurti 2y ago
  Can this run Doom ? also can this run custom Linux?
• andvari3d 2y ago
  My first comment in HN. This looks extraordinary. Too bad you don't ship to LATAM, but it's worth asking a favor to friends in US to pick it for me
• kazinator 2y ago
  Can the skeumorphic simulated paper page flipping be turned off in favor of simple scrolling?
• whatever1 2y ago
  oof it’s heavy
• darthrupert 2y ago
  Nice subtle(?) reference to Vannevar Bush at 1:00 mark.
• cookiengineer 2y ago
  This is really a nice product, but I won't order it unless SolOS and its firmware and drivers are open sourced. I've probably spent far more than 8000 bucks over the years for devices like this, only to have to throw them away eventually because their software got abandoned and they've been so proprietary that they can only function as an expensive brick on the shelf. If the software is closed source, I'd recommend everyone to stay away from any product like this. It is a deal breaker for me now, and it took a lot of cash and hype to realize it. Products like this are not a mainstream product, which makes them high risk for their investors. And you have to minimize risk by demanding open source.
  • infotainment 2y ago
    While fully open would of course be ideal, I'd settle for an unlockable bootloader. I'm guessing whatever random extras "SolOS" grafts onto Android are probably fairly extraneous, and any vanilla AOSP-based ROM would be perfectly cromulent, provided it was possible to flash it in the first place.
    • bobwaycott 2y ago
      Founder said they’d be releasing a bootloader, fwiw: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40458954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40458954
    • cookiengineer 2y ago
      I am not sure you are aware how many years of development time are necessary to reverse engineer a driver on mobile platforms. For me that is where I draw the line, without drivers I won't touch it. I've wasted enough of my free time trying to get Cyanogen run on fucked up proprietary platforms. If the drivers aren't open source, the company won't give a damn about the platform anyways because they already did not comply with the law of the license of the tools they stole (read as: linux kernel license) already.
  • xandrius 2y ago
    I support this motion. I'd definitely splurge on this bur I want to actually own the device if anything goes wrong with the company.
• squarefoot 2y ago
  Seems almost exactly what I was asking to a e-book reader: fast refresh, powerful enough and potentially open to run user apps and allow offline work; price is nice too. My only complaints are the use of Android, no 13" version that would be a godsend for technical books with graphs and diagrams, and the apparent lack of a headphones connector. Not sure about the latter as the web page is absolutely atrocious to navigate if one is after actual information instead of fancy graphics. I plan to continue to to wait for the PineNote to mature, because I will always sacrifice functionality to get more openness, but I'm glad something is happening also among the others. Its screen refresh speed is fantastic; I hope they will license the technology to others too, and possibly make panels alone available for sale. As a maker, I would welcome even a reduced speed (say 5-10 fps) version of the raw panel for sale at a decent cost for tinkering.
• hurril 2y ago
  Happily interested in this, I discover that they have broken the scrolling on the homepage about this for reasons. This tells me that since they have never tried their own homepage, they don't really care about usability so their product is probably not going to be very good.
  • tern 2y ago
    As someone who had input on the website, I can say we're very concerned about that and aiming to fix it as soon as possible. Honestly, we just didn't get it right before the launch.
    • hurril 2y ago
      Why are you even doing anything with the scrolling? Something someone can do in JavaScript in a WebPage is better than the implementation in my touch pad on my Mac?
      • tern 2y ago
        You're not wrong. But there's a tradeoff between creating a cinematic experience (which really does resonate with people in a strong way) and adhering to standard methods. We debated both approaches and went with this one, in-part because that's part of our ethos: interface design is in a local maximum, and we've had success in our software prototypes creating new interface primitives that i.e. improve the reading experience dramatically. In order for this current design to work smoothly across platforms, devices, and input methods, however, it'll need to be re-implemented, and it was probably a mistake to try something so ambitious in the time we had available.
• globalise83 2y ago
  Not your target market because I am a cheapskate and only buy second hand stuff, but I will buy it when it becomes available on my local exchange marketplace. Good luck!
• anarchy89 2y ago
  Can you ship to Singapore ?
• libpcap 2y ago
  Where is this manufactured?
  • jesterson 2y ago
    You guessed it right :)
• jerjerjer 2y ago
  Is it possible to see it offline? Looks interesting but I'd like to see it before dropping $729. Also can it work as an external monitor? I suppose there's Android app for it of course, but "natively"?
• torginus 2y ago
  >Introducing Sol:OS a distraction free operating system with everything you need and nothing you don't Literally under that: >All your content in one place - with icons showing kindle spotify, edge Heh.
• kaon_ 2y ago
  If this works it is life-changing for me. Eyestrain is now one of the biggest threats to my career and killjoys in my life. I backed the EazeEye kickstarter (which was backlit LCD) but wasn't satisfied with the result. A work day without eye strain afterward would be gold. A work day on the balcony in the sun... Omg i am looking forward to the future!
• SuperHeavy256 2y ago
  This sounds too good to be true. But if it is true, I want it.
• rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  All the best to you! Just one little thing: I think you're killing your conversions. The website is janky even on my M1 Macbook Air. Not sure the scroll hijacking stuff is really needed to get your point across either. (Check it yourself https://pagespeed.web.dev/analysis?url=daylightcomputer.com https://pagespeed.web.dev/analysis?url=daylightcomputer.com)
  • jeffhuys 2y ago
    The scroll hijacking turned me off. I have an M3 so it was pretty smooth (not ProMotion smooth but kinda smooth), but I just want to SCROLL a page! Especially with a trackpad (which I exclusively use). Not blocking my scroll halfway through, it's just so jarring. Yes, cool tech, but we want simple websites. Your product should wow us, no special tricks needed.
    • rrr_oh_man 2y ago
      > Yes, cool tech, but we want simple websites. Your product should wow us, no special tricks needed. Agree. Many times when my teams or I built products we had came up with cool CSS tricks or visual pizzaz during the creative process. Swishes, swirls, micro interactions, confetti, particle animations, and all that jazz. Absolutely adore stuff like this. But: you really need to put yourself into the chanclas of a new user. Of a person who's on the page for the very first time. During their lunch break. While waiting in line for a coffee. Ask yourself: Is that really needed? And cut mercilessly. Side note: You can observe a different flavour of that same thing in great screenplays / movies. Nothing is there just for the sake of it; every scene promotes the plot and tells us things about the characters. [0] Compare this to the drawn out, flashy, soulless action sequences you see in DC action flicks or Matrix 2 and beyond. [0] E.g., excellent analysis of one of those case here: Pirates of the Caribbean - Accidentally Genius (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhdBNVY55oM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhdBNVY55oM)
  • WHA8m 2y ago
    Smooth enough on my X201 with library wifi. Not a fan of those flashy websites though
  • 2y ago
• beAbU 2y ago
  I hope this tablet is capable of rendering it's own product website, because on my laptop with not-so-modest-specs it's a laggy unscrollable mess.
• nitin-pai 2y ago
  I have a simple hack to achieve most of the advantages of the Daylight Computer: set the display of your computer, tablet or smartphone to greyscale. Voila!
• tobiasbischoff 2y ago
  Uhm, thats a very expensive Mediatek Tablet with outdated android.
• yc-kraln 2y ago
  This would be killer for musicians!
  • hmottestad 2y ago
    I would recommend something bigger. There are several 13.3” e-ink tablets that will allow you to show an A4 sheet of music. There is even a dual 13.3” tablet that has two 13.3” e-ink displays and folds in half.
    • josmar 2y ago
      > There is even a dual 13.3” tablet that has two 13.3” e-ink displays and folds in half. Do you have a link?
      • hmottestad 2y ago
        https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1bp26hn/got_my_gvido_with_dual_133inch_eink_screens/ https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/1bp26hn/got_my_gvido_... GVIDO used to make them, but it looks like they shutdown production. According to the redditor there are still some devices available, but they are hard to find. Might not be worth getting one if they are somehow tied to GVIDO's backend servers...
• unnouinceput 2y ago
  Quote: "For a limited time get the founder’s edition complete with accessories. Tablet, stylus, charging cable + extras" Do they plan to apply Apple's style of asking for an arm for extra stuff that the rest of hardware vendors include by default? I wish good luck to them with that then. Hard pass
• laserbeam 2y ago
  Looking forward to MyDeepGuide's review. The product sounds great, but when it comes to e-ink devices he's the reviewer I trust. https://www.youtube.com/@MyDeepGuide https://www.youtube.com/@MyDeepGuide
• dakiol 2y ago
  I bought a Kindle Scribe and I love it. I’m looking forward to use more e-paper screens in the future, so excited about this new product!
• Brajeshwar 2y ago
  For those who receive their copies and who also ordered the iPad Nano Textured glass; how do they compare/contrast. I know the stark difference in everything from the material to the entire concept but one has to stick to one, what kind of compromises and limitations will someone be deciding on.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• smikhanov 2y ago
  Who makes this? "About" section has 5 (five) words of waffle in it, their ToS is buried and doesn't give any indication of what this company is, except the name, phone number and governing jurisdiction (CA). Their "founder" in comments here is a newly registered HN account.
  • smidds 2y ago
    CEO appears to be Anjan Katta (https://www.linkedin.com/in/anjan-katta-250b232b4/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/anjan-katta-250b232b4/), and the company is listed as a Public Benefit Corporation on their website.
• throwaway81523 2y ago
  $729, lol. Inkplate 10 is still on my want list. A 14 inch version at $729 would be of more interest than a 10 inch version which is too small to read full page PDFs. 60 hz update for e-paper is nice but imho not that valuable. I see it as a reading device not video.
  • op00to 2y ago
    Yeah - I’m old now. I need 13” and I really don’t wanna blow $2500 on a 13” iPad Pro.
    • throwaway81523 2y ago
      You can get 12" and 14.6" Samsung tablets for under $1000. No idea whether they are good. In that size range I've always gotten laptops. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-galaxy-tab-s8-ultra-14-6-128gb-wi-fi-with-s-pen-graphite/6494238.p https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-galaxy-tab-s8-ultra-14-...
  • 7bit 2y ago
    That price is CRAZY. Definitive no from my side.
• PETz 2y ago
  No shipping to Romania? :(
• SoylentOrange 2y ago
  I was really excited for this - I’ve been saying to all my friends that I wish I could use my kindle for more. Obviously the kindle is quite slow so it’s not a good fit for reading on the web (I use Instapaper a lot and wish I could have that experience in eInk). I also read scientific papers and those often have figures that are very hard to read on a small black and white display, and I tend to scribble in the margins when I referee for conferences. For these tasks I use my iPad Air, but the eye strain problem is real if you’re reading for hours at a time. Since I bought a small laptop, I exclusively use my iPad for reading and writing. The writing experience could be better, with the surface feeling a little too glassy. My big worries are the app support. I use notability to write notes, which has OCR and allows syncing to my laptop and phone. My bookmarks sync across browsers. My reading list syncs with Instapaper and my citations with Zotero. Can I get a similar syncing system? Another perennial problem with such devices is the stylus. I’ve lost 2 apple pencils at conferences. It’s horrible - you now can’t write anything until you get a replacement. At least with an Apple Pencil you can walk into any store and pay the exorbitant $120 to buy a new one (imagine if you could never borrow a pen from anyone ever again and each pen cost over $100 - that’s what it feels like). How will I get a replacement pencil for this device if it falls down in an airport or out of my bag in some conference center far from home? But as others have said, the iPad is a tried and tested device. It has a powerful ecosystem and great resolution. The base model comes with 128GB of on device storage. And it’s $600, significantly cheaper than this device. I find the price tag hard to justify in comparison .
  • layer8 2y ago
    The new Pencil Pro has Find My, which might help in such a situation.
• felixding 2y ago
  No headphone jack? Why?
• milesward 2y ago
  Planning for a keyboard case?
• hollander 2y ago
  We want the monitor, not the tablet. Plus the probably needed software for Windows, macOS ánd Linus to handle the color scheme.
  • josmar 2y ago
    You may want to check this out. It's a monitor using reflective LCD (RLCD) https://www.sunvisiondisplay.com/rE-Monitor https://www.sunvisiondisplay.com/rE-Monitor Have not tried myself and have no affiliation. If anyone here used it, lmk how it works
• snowstormsun 2y ago
  Is there a video demo where you can see how it refreshes the display and how smooth it really is?
• choilive 2y ago
  I've tried a bunch of eink tablets (scribe, supernote, remarkable). At the end of the day, I go back to just plain paper and ink, the advantages of digital just wasn't worth it. I can buy a quality notebook for $25 or less and it will last me a year. For the cost of this device that means I can get a stack of 30 of those notebooks which will last me most of the rest of my life. I doubt the daylight computer will have a 30 year service life.
• tcsenpai 2y ago
  Very promising. It would be super interesting to have an in-depth (when/if possible) understanding of LivePaper. If it is indeed "as eink but solving eink problems" I feel it could be adopted (licensed) from the industry in a blink. In general, I dislike Android on eink devices but I have to admit I am talking about classic eink tablets. The main concern would be the battery life, that is usually always reduced in respect of custom linux based OS. Pioneering new electronic paper technology is extremely underrated and important, kudos to you all for this!
• kernal 2y ago
  >Sol:OS is a custom Android OS carefully crafted to minimize distractions, with a clean, intuitive interface that keeps you in the flow. I'm glad they admitted its provenance instead of hiding it like Rivian and Rabbit.
• insane_dreamer 2y ago
  Looks beautiful and would definitely like one, though I don't think I have a use case that justifies the cost. This looks great for people who do a lot of reading and/or writing outside away from their desk. I wish that were me. My use case, fwiw: 1) I use my laptop for writing because I'm much faster on laptop than pencil anyway and if I have to carry a keyboard+ipad/epad I might as well have a laptop; 2) am not a "writer" so don't need that "distraction free" experience (though I do love the thought of it, I sadly have very little opportunity to sit in the forest and compose); 3) when I do have time for reading for pleasure, I use dead-tree paper (I've had various e-book devices over the years and keep coming back to paper: can throw it in a bag and take it on a hike with the kids without worrying about it getting damaged; I don't like "owning" (aka renting) DRM'd material; I avoid Amazon as much as possible; I buy used if I can find it; I want to be able to pass it on to someone else); 4) if I'm reading academic papers (a good use case for Daylight), I'm going to be making notes somewhere (much faster with keyboard), copy/pasting or links for reference, maybe sending a comment to a co-worker on Slack or making a TODO in Jira, and usually at my desk since it's usually work related. I used to have an iPad+keyboard but realized it didn't really provide me anything over a MacBook, so the kids have the iPad and the keyboard is in a drawer. Major kudos for what looks like an outstanding device.
• lacoolj 2y ago
  photo comparison between ipad and daylight - ipad is in the shade, daylight in sunlight not an ipad (or any apple) fan, but not a great way to instill confidence
• urbandw311er 2y ago
  Hmm. I think there’s some blurring of the lines between “e-ink / e-paper” and what this actually is, which is neither. The makers aren’t directly doing it, but neither are they actively discouraging it. Which is convenient. It would be more accurate to remove “e-paper from the post title and maybe sticky the commentators who helpfully point this out.
• LoganDark 2y ago
  I'm too late, apparently, I'm only in batch 3 which is arriving in some four months or so. Sigh. I did buy in though. I have a reMarkable 2 and it's a great device, but the software is super subpar. I'm cautiously optimistic about this device running Android, because that means I can run anything on it.
• motohagiography 2y ago
  realize it's a consumer product, and a very cool one. would like to get security information about it so that IT depts can approve it for use by employees. it's a great personal device, but every lawyer and analyst who wants to use one for company data will be blocked by IT until they get some specs. Android is not allowed in a lot of environments because it's so fragmented and impossible to lock down.
• bitcraft 2y ago
  I might be a minority here, but I don't really consider the Android OS a feature I want. As a Remarkable 2 owner, I've come to really appreciate the long battery life and purpose built OS. There are no "app" distractions, and it has become an essential part of my daily work flow for note taking and e-book reading. I wish Daylight success, but at their price, its not a compelling offer for me.
  • hbn 2y ago
    Yeah I was surprised to see it ran Android after watching the trailer showing a lady doom-scrolling on her iPhone before accepting the warming comfort of using the Daylight. Another trailer showed happy contemporary hippies in the forest, or their modern workspace with more plants than walking space. I figured it was a breath of fresh air from modern devices because it was simpler in its capabilities. But if it's running Android it seems like you'd just be doomscrolling in black and white.
    • tjbiddle 2y ago
      Seems like something that could be solved pretty easily by having self-control and not installing those apps on the device. Besides, I would have no interest in doom-scrolling black and white anyway. My app timers on my phone, when they switch to greyscale, I immediately lose interest on whatever it was.
• kkukshtel 2y ago
  This and that open source 60fps e-ink display repo from a few days ago on HN makes me think we're about to see an explosion of new tech that is centered around eink type displays: https://github.com/Modos-Labs/Glider https://github.com/Modos-Labs/Glider
• callalex 2y ago
  I see the website for about half a second on my up to date iPhone and then it just says “client side error” and blanks out the entire screen. Now I have no idea what your product is. Plain html never killed anybody.
  • moffkalast 2y ago
    I'm sure you can theoretically make an effective jump scare in plain html and give someone a heart attack.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• WhereIsTheTruth 2y ago
  Interesting product, but this is probably one of the worst website ever, it's hard to browse and very hard to find actual useful information, let alone specifications about the HW/Battery..
• japhib 2y ago
  You know what is paper-like, has infinite FPS, never runs out of batteries, and costs about 100x less than this? A physical notebook & a pen :)
• jrh3 2y ago
  I could see myself getting 4-5 of these one day so I could spread them around my desk to work and then stack them up in priority order when I was done.
• ji_zai 2y ago
  Thank you! I've been itching for a product like this. Hate the strain computer screens give me. Kindle, and Remarkable felt too restrictive. Building on Android is a good move.
• andvari 2y ago
  If I make a $100 deposit now, (because I prefer to wait for a review) What will be the price for the next batch?
• phforms 2y ago
  If I could afford it, I would buy this just to support the idea and invest in an industry that focusses more on reducing the “virtual noise” and creating computers that are more like natural tools/artefacts that blend in with our environments instead of separating us from them and from each other and distracting us from what we actually value in life. I hope you succeed on your mission!
• Ariel_Asura 2y ago
  Your product is very appealing, and I was just about to place an order. However, the purchase interface seems to be frequently unstable, showing application errors. It took me three attempts to finally see that your product is priced at $729 and won't be available until November. I hope you can optimize the payment system or make the pricing clearer on the homepage.
• dilidili9 2y ago
  WoW! Sounds amazing! I'm curious about a few things: How does LivePaper compare to traditional e-ink in terms of battery life, given the higher refresh rates? Are there any specific challenges you faced while ensuring the display's durability and consistency, especially with the custom tech involved? How does the viewing experience of LivePaper hold up in different lighting conditions compared to traditional e-ink and LCD displays? What kind of feedback have you received from early users regarding the usability and performance of the tablet in various applications like coding, document editing, and gaming?
• precompute 2y ago
  Do it right and you'll be eating Amazon's lunch!
• arkenflame 2y ago
  If anyone is looking for a much cheaper alternative to this very impressive device for the sole purpose of typing or writing in daylight, I made a mobile app you can use in conjunction with a Kindle or other e-reader: https://solarwriter.msol.io https://solarwriter.msol.io
• andvari 2y ago
  I need to see Return of the Obra Dinn on this
• victorhooi 2y ago
  I’m definitely interested in this - but I’m wondering about software updates. It mentions it runs Android 13 - which was released based in 2022. Android 15 is meant to be released soon. Do you know if it’s possible to update this to more modern Android releases? How involved is it? Or would it be tied to the older Android release for some time?
• welzel 2y ago
  One feedback on the webpage: it is impossible to find any spec on the device. It is pure emotion and marketing bull$hit, zero information. If you want to copy Apple & Co on this, please remember to also bring the tech specs. Like: Operation System, Ram, Storage, Battery Life, Format Factor, Weight, I/O. My assumption: you have a less crappy display with a outdated compute unit, made from leftover Shenzhen parts. Sorry, but every year hundreds of startups fail with a "big promise bad product" strategy. It is nothing against this product, i just have trust issues if a company cannot even create a basic webpage that delivers relevant information.
• watusername 2y ago
  This is a late comment, but it would be amazing if the AOSP device tree is available to the community.
• lpnotes 2y ago
  Pre-ordered! I noticed in the marketing photos that there was a keyboard, but it's not included in the pre-order bundle. Is there a recommended keyboard for the Daylight that's wireless?
  • e-_pusher 2y ago
    Any Bluetooth keyboard will work.
• jkestner 2y ago
  For everyone who’s curious about the screen tech like me, you’re getting tripped up on the marketing term “epaper”. From Daylight’s own comments here, it appears to be an LCD display. Hence good refresh rate (where the limitation may be in what the silicon can drive), no display when off, and mere “days” of battery life. The work is in giving it eInk-like readability.