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Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

• urdbjtdvbg 3y ago
  I recently rented a car from Hertz. I knew I wouldn’t need more than a single full tank of gas for my trip (and if I underestimated I could just stop at a gas station). I wasn’t sure what might happen with the (cheaper!) Tesla. So I opted for the ICE vehicle. (Where could I charge it? The hotel? Do I need to find a super charger? Etc. Just more headache than I wanted on a vacation).
  • gjsman-1000 3y ago
    This seems to be an extension of the biggest problem with EVs: The edge cases. Even if the edge case is only 1% of your travel, do you want to buy a car that can't do it? It can be anything. You're living in Minnesota and your dad in Chicago had a heart attack. An ICE can get you there in about ~7 hours. An EV... you're going to need 1 supercharging station at a minimum, probably 2. Or, you just decide you want a road trip from Minnesota to Texas. You pull over to the nearest supercharger in Arkansas to discover you're forced to hang out in a town where you really don't feel safe for an hour or two. That's great. EVs make far more sense in Europe than America, with the current range they can offer, combined with general proximity of relatives. I'm not saying they don't have a future in America, I just won't be surprised if we are the slowest adopters.
    • _ea1k 3y ago
      An hour or two? Noone is hanging out around superchargers for that long if they don't already want to be there.
      • gjsman-1000 3y ago
        Sure, if you buy a new Tesla, it's pretty good now. But not everyone can afford a new EV. If you buy almost any EV on the used market, such as a used Tesla...
        • brianwawok 3y ago
          A used 3 or Y will charge just fine. 15-20 minutes should cover most cases.
        • _ea1k 3y ago
          That still wouldn't be true for a used Tesla. Most used sales are Model 3 or Y. Both charge really well. Even older used Model S or X are more like 30 minutes than 2 hours, especially if the location is bad and you'd rather get to the next one.
      • bryanlarsen 3y ago
        You might be if you need to return the car at 100%, the last few percent of battery takes forever to charge due to chemistry. I don't know what Hertz requires, but returning it at 100% is stupid. It's hard on the battery and takes forever. Charging to 80% takes a lot less time and is easier on the battery, so hopefully that's all that Hertz requires. Edit: a different commenter says you need to return at 75%. That's reasonable.
        • _ea1k 3y ago
          Yeah, and tbh, I'm hearing that their return fees are actually pretty reasonable. If you can return at less than 75% for only $25, just do that. Supercharging isn't particularly cheap anyway, so you can't save that much money with a long wait.
    • jstummbillig 3y ago
      Sounds like a transformation issue. In the beginning (I assume) before widespread filling station networks getting gas was an issue. Now it's not. That's not a quality of gas vs EV, it's a quality of ubiquity.
      • nytesky 3y ago
        There is also the fact that charging takes longer, even with supercharging, right?
        • jstummbillig 3y ago
          Improvement is tightly coupled with ubiquity. As things get better, they improve in a lot of ways.
      • gjsman-1000 3y ago
        I agree; but nobody buying cars cares about what kind of issue it is. It's an issue ICE doesn't have and they don't want that issue.
        • _ea1k 3y ago
          True, and this is why sales for EVs basically automatically increase as infrastructure is built out in a particular area. Once consumers understand the capability and what is their, their buying patterns are fairly rational. In my experience, most people outside of the EV bubble underestimate how much infrastructure is already there. At least for Tesla. For CCS cars in the US, it isn't so great.
      • bryanlarsen 3y ago
        At one point in time the pharmacy was the standard place to buy gasoline.
      • andrewla 3y ago
        It's both -- the ubiquity would make things a lot easier, but you can fill up a car with gas in five minutes.
    • Ekaros 3y ago
      I consider my probable edge case, driving to the capital for example airport there, 160km+something nearly all of it motorway so slightly worse range if I drive at legal limit. So I would like to get there in one go as being 2 hours early anyway is big time sink. And then when I'm coming back I just want to get to home not stop in middle to charge... Or I might want to do same with some client or relative there. Train station is very near, but not that near... And it still means connection to get to actual airport... And new EVs are pretty expensive, compared already paid car...
      • gjsman-1000 3y ago
        > And new EVs are pretty expensive, compared already paid car... My family has neighbors that just buy and repair older cars and sell them pretty low cost. The quality of their work has been considered very good by third-party mechanics. My parents recently bought a 2005 Pontiac with a V6 from them for about ~$4K with 135K miles. One accident (deer sideswipe), only body. Do you know what a 2013 Tesla Model S with 135K miles goes for around here? About $17K. If we're lucky, we could maybe negotiate it to $15K-$14K; but that's still almost four times the cost. And sure, the Tesla is eight years newer, but I make a similar comparison because it was very much a 1st-gen product... My money is on the Pontiac lasting longer.
      • _ea1k 3y ago
        That sounds like an easy problem to solve, tbh. 100 miles and l1 at the airport. It'd be nice if they all installed at least a few rows of those.
    • JohnFen 3y ago
      > Even if the edge case is only 1% of your travel, do you want to buy a car that can't do it? Why not? If my car covers 99% of my needs, that seems fine. I can rent a vehicle for the other 1%.
    • FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >EVs make far more sense in Europe than America As an European, no they don't. Europeans often use their cars for long travels cross borders for work, vacation or visiting relatives where public trasnportation doesn't serve them, and the lack or underdevelopment of charging infrastructre makes them viable only for people with their own house, garage and charger at home or for businesses which do short trips around town like deliveries or realtors. Everyone else has ICEs.
  • zwily 3y ago
    Same here. I’m a happy Tesla owner at home but have always skipped them when renting for all the reasons people have listed.
  • nytesky 3y ago
    Literally made the same decision last night for a rental. I had no idea how to charge an electric car and did not want to have to deal with figuring it out on top of everything else. They charge you $25 if you return it not fully charged, which is bananas, because why couldn’t they just plug it in while they’re cleaning the car? It’s not like gas where they have to drive the car to a gas station.
    • gnfargbl 3y ago
      Is that a $25 recharging fee, or $25 for the electricity? A full tank of electrons is around $25 equivalent in the UK. (I realise it's cheaper in most of the US.)
    • bryanlarsen 3y ago
      You're likely going to spend more than $25 to put gasoline in your rental before returning it, and $25 is the approximate cost for a supercharger, so that charge seems very reasonable. You could have just taken the electric car and returned it empty.
      • pc86 3y ago
        The last time I rented a car (2 months ago?) if you returned it less than whatever you receive it at, you get charged for an entire tank of gas with the $3-4/gal markup. So receive it full and return it at 15/16ths and you're looking at a $80-100 bill easily on the larger vehicles. It's likely similar where if you receive it at 100% and return it at 98% you're getting charged the full $25. It's just another revenue source for the company.
        • bryanlarsen 3y ago
          $25 flat fee is reasonable. $25 + the cost of a full charge isn't. I'm not sure which the OP experienced.
        • mschuster91 3y ago
          The refill charge is nuts anyway even for ICE vehicles. Put an 1 m³ construction site tank+pump for diesel and one for regular gas on the site and that's it - these things cost about 1000€ [1]. From the start, refill charges have been an utter scam. [1] https://www.geratech-tankanlagen.de/tankanlagen-diesel-adblue/hoftankstelle-1000-liter-komplett/a-10302 https://www.geratech-tankanlagen.de/tankanlagen-diesel-adblu...
• nelsonic 3y ago
  We recently went on vacation to Germany and rented a Polestar 2 from Hertz. The car was good but charging was infuriating. Had to download a new app for each charging spot and they didn't include a home-charging cable so we couldn't charge at family home we were visiting. Overall wouldn't recommend which is a huge shame. At home we drive a Tesla M3, charge at home from solar and supercharger network is flawless when doing road trips. Very puzzling that Hertz + Tesla hasn't streamlined the charging process for rental vehicles.
  • cycrutchfield 3y ago
    If you rent a Tesla from Hertz you can just charge at any supercharger and it will charge to your final bill. It’s super easy, no friction whatsoever.
  • thesimon 3y ago
    Rented a Polestar 2 multiple times from Hertz in the summer. It included both a home-charging cable and a charging fob. The Hertz charging fob is quite expensive though, cheaper to signup to something like EnBW, which you can use for almost all charging stations [0]. Supercharger in Germany are almost all open to third-party cars as well, though not as cheap as EnBW. [0]: https://www.enbw.com/elektromobilitaet/produkte/ladetarife https://www.enbw.com/elektromobilitaet/produkte/ladetarife
  • steveBK123 3y ago
    EV owner 6 years here, rented an EV in Portugal and was a disaster. Nearly stranded at a rest stop, spent 2 hours trying to charge, apps wouldn't accept payment, apps wouldn't activate Ionity charger, spent an hour on long distance cellphone call to Ionity call center where they manually activated a charge for me after great difficulty. The other thing for people who think they can plan around it is that remember with typical rental agency you have no idea exactly which EV model they are going to give you at check in. So could be the one with 220/240/280mi highway range. And then they might hand it to you with the battery at 80% full. Your plans to safely get to your destination on 100% of the 280mi battery may be quickly spoiled by getting a a 240mi EV at 80% full and being -90mi short.
• oldpersonintx 3y ago
  I've never driven an EV before. I don't want to learn about them when I am renting a vehicle...my relationship with rental cars is pure utility: get me from A to B By the same token I would never rent a diesel or a manual transmission vehicle...I don't want to learn about them via the rental experience
  • masto 3y ago
    I haven't driven a gasoline car in over 5 years, so similarly I don't want to have to try to remember how to work one, and I'd rather just rent an EV for familiarity. As more and more people have electric cars, it makes sense for the rental companies to transition to them, so that renting doesn't feel like you're being offered a horse and buggy.
  • nolongerthere 3y ago
    FYI, you appear to be shadowbanned, I had to vouch your comment to make it not dead. And most of your comments are dead when I look at your profile. I couldn’t find ground zero for what caused your comments to become shadowbanned, but you can reach out to dang to find out why and ask if he’ll consider unbanning you.
  • thebruce87m 3y ago
    I had to learn how to use an automatic when I rented a vehicle in Texas. That was the first time I’d ever driven on the wrong side of the road which was also interesting.
• brd529 3y ago
  I recently rented a tesla from hertz - I had made sure my hotel had charging in it's parking lot. I arrive at the hotel to find that the tesla was missing it's j1772 adapter, which is what the hotel charger required. I had to hunt down a supercharger and hang out there for an hour. Pretty lame. When I returned the car I complained and was told that there is no guarantee from hertz that the adapter will be included. Without the guarantee renting an a tesla is a scary prospect - I probably won't do it again. this from someone who has a model y at home as my daily driver and I love it.
  • pc86 3y ago
    Sounds like it was your fault for not traveling with your adapter /s
• r00fus 3y ago
  Recently rented an EV (Nissan Leaf) from Enterprise - they were happy to upgrade me from my economy, but one catch - it was at 20% battery. Luckily the hotel we were staying at did have a charger (called ahead) free. Amusingly the rental place told me as we were returning the car that it had been sold in the interim. It's amazing to me how little effort these companies take to resolve the charging questions - there wasn't even a charger at the rental place.
  • astanix 3y ago
    That seems pretty crazy to me they they would offer EVs and not have the ability to charge them on site.
    • _ea1k 3y ago
      Some have Tesla superchargers, but not necessarily Chademo for a leaf. It would take hours to charge on their L2 and they probably have fewer L2s than EVs. It is pretty easy for them to fall behind on charging vehicles during peak periods, especially something like the Leaf.
  • nunez 3y ago
    love the time I rented from Avis and got assigned a Kia Niro EV with, not shitting you, EXACTLY ONE PERCENT capacity left! I wasn't sure if I could get it off the lot! I exchanged it for a Bolt that fared better. Love that car.
• cloudking 3y ago
  I really enjoy Tesla vehicles, but I had a bad experience renting one from Budget. The cars require a Tesla account with a credit card attached in order to use Super Charging stations, which is managed by Budget and then they add the charging costs on to your bill at the end. Half way through the rental period the card they had attached expired, and I was locked out of using Super Chargers. I spent a long time on the phone with customer support, and they said because the cars are provisioned by a third-party company, there was nothing they could do other than offer me a replacement vehicle. It wasn't convenient to swap the vehicles because I wasn't close to Budget, so I had to use much slower chargers at a mall parking lot to get around. I complained to Budget when I returned the vehicle and they discounted me 50% of the bill for the inconvenience.
  • _ea1k 3y ago
    Yeah, I remember being really excited about this at announcement. It made perfect sense too, as Tesla does really well on Turo! But the rental companies overshot a bit. They didn't keep their processes and infrastructure up to pace with the number that they brought on. It isn't shocking that caused some issues.
    • cloudking 3y ago
      For sure, I thought it was crazy that customer support didn't have access to the Tesla account attached to the vehicle. This seems like a very basic process that should have been put in place for troubleshooting.
  • smileysteve 3y ago
    Next you're going to tell us that rental companies don't change ICE oil on time.
  • cyberax 3y ago
    > The cars require a Tesla account with a credit card attached in order to use Super Charging stations, which is managed by Budget and then they add the charging costs on to your bill at the end. Hertz did it correctly, they use their account and just charge your credit card after your rental period is over. Just like they do with parking tickets or tolls.
• ramesh31 3y ago
  Slightly OT, but used Teslas are dirt cheap these days (relatively) thanks to all the fleet sales. You can find a ~3 year old Model S off lease now for under $30k.
  • bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Less off topic if you buy those used Tesla's from Hertz for $14K: https://electrek.co/2024/01/10/tesla-model-3-hertz-cheap-used-rental/ https://electrek.co/2024/01/10/tesla-model-3-hertz-cheap-use...
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    • _ea1k 3y ago
      The bad thing is that you'll likely have to spend a few thousand to get them into decent shape. It sounds like the cheaper ones are pretty rough.
  • skeeter2020 3y ago
    I think you and I have different definitions of dirt cheap
• steveBK123 3y ago
  Owning an EV in US is still something of an enthusiasts niche. I have been an owner almost 6 years. Things that increase the riskiness - unfamiliar area, unfamiliar car, non Tesla, not knowing EVs. So rental non-Tesla while on a vacation is probably the worst possible scenario.
• theandrewbailey 3y ago
  https://archive.is/xGVbP https://archive.is/xGVbP
  • dang 3y ago
    Also https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hertz-... https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/11/business/hertz-tesla-selling/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/11/business/hertz-tesla-selling/... https://techcrunch.com/2024/01/11/hertz-sell-evs-tesla-fleet-gm-polestar-gas/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/01/11/hertz-sell-evs-tesla-fleet... (from other threads we've merged hither)
• cycrutchfield 3y ago
  I’m surprised to hear that people have had some anxiety about charging when renting Teslas from Hertz. My experience was quite the opposite. Just use any supercharger and it bills to Hertz who bills to you. The hotel valet had EV charging and charged the battery up all the way every night. The only confusing part was figuring out what charge level I needed to return the car at (I think it was 75%). Otherwise it was great and I would love to rent a Tesla from Hertz again.
  • _ea1k 3y ago
    Yeah, it really varies. If you have a hotel with good ev charging, an EV can be a convenience. I've had the experience of renting a gas vehicle, and then realizing my hotel had EV charging and would have actually been more convenient. :) But plenty of hotels still don't have that.
  • keane 3y ago
    I second this. I've rented Teslas from Hertz about 5 or 6 times now for long trips across California and the experience was flawless. I couldn't believe how well everything just worked. The integration resulted in a seemingly Tesla-controlled experience where there was little friction reminding you the car belonged to Hertz.
• asne11 3y ago
  https://archive.is/xGVbP https://archive.is/xGVbP
• helen___keller 3y ago
  Over Christmas I flew to another city and rented a car for week. Hertz had great deals on EVs but not so great for ICE so I specifically avoided hertz and went with Avis instead. I like EVs and have a charger at home for my own car, but maybe due to that I also understand the difficulty of finding a reliable charging situation in a new place. On top of that I was visiting and parking at my parents house, and they don’t have a charger installed.
  • _ea1k 3y ago
    > On top of that I was visiting and parking at my parents house, and they don’t have a charger installed. Yeah, and hertz doesn't tend to give you a mobile charger. I can't blame them, they are a separate cost and they tend to "get lost" with rentals, but it makes the EV option a lot less practical.
• _ea1k 3y ago
  With the updated Model 3 on the market and these starting to get sold en masse, there will be some great bargains on used Model 3 soon. Interestingly, they seem to be selling off more of the 3 than the Y too.
• nocoiner 3y ago
  I’ve owned several EVs (though not at this particular moment) and generally think they’re terrific. But I agree with several other posters - the typical scenario where I’m renting a car is exactly the one where EVs’ current shortcomings are most prominent. Plus I can really only think of two types of vehicles that I’d ever want to rent - either an econobox to get me from point A to B to C in an area underserved by Uber/Lyft where I could not care less about what I’m temporarily driving, or a convertible. I guess maybe also an SUV - but in any event, those three categories are (as far as I am aware) just not yet well matched by any EVs on the market.
• bradfox2 3y ago
  We've been daily driving tesla exclusively since 2015. Too much uncertainty in a new area to rent one when on business travel with strict deadlines.
• mint2 3y ago
  Rented a car from hertz for a work trip, the travel platform called it a medium suv. Hertz apparently doesn’t use standard classifications and it was actually a sub compact suv - the Chevy bolt euv. Their counter person was strangely gleeful in explaining how I would not be able to find a charger for it. I get the feeling hertz and car companies just hate electric vehicles
• zug_zug 3y ago
  "due to higher expenses due to collision damage" I wonder if that means insurance, frequency of collisions, average damage in a collision, or cost to repair disparity
  • parkererway 3y ago
    Very likely cost to repair (which ends up a component in insurance cost)
  • Rebelgecko 3y ago
    I imagine if you're operating on the scale of Hertz it's cheaper to self-insure. Anecdotally it seems like Teslas have higher damage in a collision (eg more expensive and fragile electronics in the bumper) and are more expensive to repair. The last body shop I went to even had a separate hourly rate for Teslas
    • bryanlarsen 3y ago
      Isn't that just pure gouging? If a Tesla is harder to repair it'll take longer and be more expensive for that reason, no increased hourly rate necessary.
      • olyjohn 3y ago
        Or... you need a person who is specialized in working on EVs. EVs are still not the majority, so anything different from the norm will need different training, and thusly higher hourly rates to work on them. When Ford started making putting aluminum bodies on their F150s, they had special training programs for doing bodywork and repair on them. I guarantee that cost was passed down to you. It may not even take longer to do the repairs, it might take the same amount of time once you learn how to work on them. That said, I guarantee the shops and insurance companies are recuperating the costs of that extra training.
        • bluGill 3y ago
          When Ford makes a new car they write a large book on how to repair every body panel on it. For hidden parts how much damage was acceptable before you had to do something. All dealer body shops are required to have book before the dealer can on sell the fist car (along with books and training on other repairs). I believe most body shops don't buy this book, but at the time I worked for a company that made tools and those books were used to decide what special tools we needed to design/make next. I left before Tesla was a thing (2 years before the roadster), so I don't know what Tesla does, but I suspect this is one of those details they didn't realize was important.
• bryanlarsen 3y ago
  So Hertz is continuing their narrative to blame EV's for their own executive mistakes. If you dig deeper you'll find that: - most of their EV's were rented to Uber drivers. - All Uber rentals, gas and EV, have higher milage, higher maintenance costs and lower resale values. In other words this state of affairs was highly predictable. That it wasn't taken into account is the fault of Hertz executives. They're trying to shift blame off of their own shoulders.
  • bagels 3y ago
    From what I read, they were mostly only able to rent them to existing ev owners, after which, they rented them to Uber drivers to try to at least get some revenue from them.
  • lokar 3y ago
    They put them in the Uber fleet because they were getting rented.
  • itsoktocry 3y ago
    >blame EV's Wait, what? Hertz was basically bankrupt, and suddenly was a "good business" when it bought a bunch of Teslas. It was always a stretch. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38052601/hertz-buying-100000-tesla-rental-evs/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38052601/hertz-buying-100...
    • thegrim33 3y ago
      But hey, they hired Tom Brady (who also got paid to shill for FTX) to do their EV-focused commercials. Surely it's a good business when their commercials don't, you know, extol the benefits of their company and products, but instead hire a celebrity in a pretty low-brow disgusting way to try to sell a product: by pandering to the people with "hey, this famous person is in our commercial and for money he says our product is cool, so that means you should like it too, if you want to be cool like Tom Brady". Surely their fundamentals are rock solid.
      • 3y ago
• legitster 3y ago
  Car rental companies regularly rotate through their fleet. I suspect these are cars that are supposed to go up for resell anyway and they are just not replacing them with equivalents. EVs are already not a good fit for rental cars - I don't think travelers on vacation want to figure deal with a charging plan. It's also really hard to sell even a luxury sedan as an upgrade when everyone wants an SUV. I'd be curious to know if something like the Rivian would fare better as a premium option.
  • asveikau 3y ago
    > It's also really hard to sell even a luxury sedan as an upgrade when everyone wants an SUV I don't want an SUV. I get angry at rental companies when they try to give me one. I increasingly don't recognize this country I grew up in with the car culture. In the early 90s nobody wanted SUVs either. The truck and SUV craze was apparently sparked by an emissions regulatory loophole, where larger vehicles were excempt because they were meant for work.
    • bluGill 3y ago
      Unfortunately people who like small cars are a minority. Most people want whatever is the current fad, and small cars are out. I do not know how to change this. (come to think of it, even though I prefer small cars I drive a large truck because once in a while I need a truck and I don't drive enough to justify two vehicles)
      • Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
        > Most people want whatever is the current fad, and small cars are out. I do not know how to change this. The only thing I can think of is to emphasize their superior fuel economy and get people to appreciate the superior handling. Make people drive an obstacle avoidance course in both a small car and a huge SUV. Maybe some people would accept that the safer car doesn't have to be the bigger car, but the one with enough agility and stability to avoid it completely.
        • 3y ago
• camhart 3y ago
  I tried renting an EV from Hertz a couple months ago. I reserved a Model Y. They waited until the morning of to call me and tell me they didn't have one for me. Said they might have a model 3 (but not the model Y I reserved) 3-4 hours passed my reserved pickup time. I waited an hour or two, then found a model y on Turo that got the job done. Then Hertz tried to charged me for cancelling... they did fix that but I was furious when I saw it going pending on my card. I'm going to avoid Hertz from here on out as much as possible. Especially if I want an EV. Perhaps the problem isn't Tesla, but Hertz. At least based on my experience, that's what it was.
  • bombcar 3y ago
    Rental agencies don't actually "rent specific cars" - they sell rentals at specific price points and fill those obligations with whatever they have laying around at the time. Which is why it's almost best to just rent the lowest, cheapest thing, because they'll give you whatever they have. This stops working when you need a particular aspect of whatever it is, especially if it's an aspect nobody really "cares" about - like whether it is EV. Most people care it has enough seats, and enough luggage room. So a larger SUV works as well as a car for them.
    • stilldavid 3y ago
      My wife and I went to Kauai and specifically rented a Jeep so we could take it on some moderate trails to see waterfalls and whatnot. We were somewhat dismayed when we arrived and found we had been "upgraded" to a BMW X5 and there were no actual off-road vehicles available from the company. It was a nice car, for sure, but not what we had wanted.
      • rich_sasha 3y ago
        IME rental car agreements prohibit taking them "off road" which might include tracks. No idea about US (EDIT not Japan) specifically.
        • 3y ago
• water-your-self 3y ago
  A plug in is cheaper than a gas tank of fuel, and a rental car company is insulated from that fact until they get handed a car on empty.
  • richiebful1 3y ago
    Hertz charges for an "empty" battery. I highly doubt they're losing money on recharges.
  • bombcar 3y ago
    Being able to "charge onsite" is a minor advantage, if any at all. They get to charge for cars brought back not full, and either they're active enough that they have on-site refueling (delivered by a gas truck) or they're inactive enough that sending the new guy over to the gas station isn't a major issue.
    • RegnisGnaw 3y ago
      Considering what they charge you for fuel, they make money on that.
• 1970-01-01 3y ago
  This is due to high body damage repair costs and has nothing to do with repairing an electric powertrain: >Let me share a bit more context on the damage equation. First, while conventional maintenance on electric vehicles remained lower relative to comparable ICE vehicles in Q3, higher collision and damage repairs on EVs continue to weigh on our results and negatively impacted EBITDA. For context, collision and damage repairs on an EV can often run about twice that associated with a comparable combustion engine vehicle. Second, where a car is salvaged, we must crystallize at once any difference between our carrying value and the market value of that car. The MSRP declines in EVs over the course of 2023, driven primarily by Tesla have driven the fair market value of our EVs lower as compared to last year, such that a salvage creates a larger loss and, therefore, greater burden. https://ir.hertz.com/static-files/75a583c0-90e0-496a-8b45-9f9d9389a93a https://ir.hertz.com/static-files/75a583c0-90e0-496a-8b45-9f...
  • smitty1110 3y ago
    Bloomberg has the same story and cites high repair costs as one of the reasons, so you may be onto something.
    • bombcar 3y ago
      That coupled with customer complaints and annoyance could definitely sour the company on it.
      • adfm 3y ago
        Adrian Cockcroft wrote about his Hertz experiences back in April. Update: Bad experiences renting electric cars from Hertz https://adrianco.medium.com/experiences-renting-electric-cars-from-hertz-c662d28d55cc https://adrianco.medium.com/experiences-renting-electric-car...
        • Tempest1981 3y ago
          Seems like a lot of random complaints, from mobile apps to lane-keeping software. Not much seems specific to EVs, more just about new technologies. I guess you can rent a $20k Kia and avoid all the new tech.
• bombcar 3y ago
  The years of these vehicles (2021) is about the same as all the other vehicles they're selling (though there are some older ones which I suspect might be trade ins?). The only thing really of note is that they're not buying more of them, selling off cars that are 2 years (or about 30k miles) or so old is standard rental car policy. Sell it whilst they can recover much of the capital outlay.
  • happytiger 3y ago
    This is exactly the point. This is really a non-reup on Tesla as a rental fleet option. It’s important to note that they have been renting half this fleet to Uber drivers at approximately 1/2 their consumer rental rate, according to TheVerge: > Hertz is scaling back its EV ambitions because its Teslas keep getting damaged / Also, Uber drivers, who are using about half of Hertz’s Teslas, are damaging their cars more than Hertz expected. And: > repair costs are about double what the company spends on gas car fixes, Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr told Bloomberg. Apparently they tried to pull more vehicles into the leisure category (aka consumer rentals not Uber driver rentals) to mitigate repair costs, but it didn’t work. Also, the price cuts Tesla has been making are turning the company off on renewing: > Price cuts have taken another toll on Hertz. “The MSRP [manufacturer suggested retail price] declines in EVs over the course of 2023, driven primarily by Tesla, have driven the fair market value of our EVs lower as compared to last year, such that a salvage creates a larger loss and, therefore, greater burden,” Scherr said. Your analysis seems spot on. https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/27/23934691/hertz-tesla-uber-ev-plans-damage-repair-price-cuts https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/27/23934691/hertz-tesla-ube...
    • bombcar 3y ago
      It's a cascade of issues, but it really comes down to "people didn't want EVs when offered". For want of renters, the Uber was used. For want of Uber gentleness, the repairs mounted, etc. I honestly can't fault them, they tried a thing and they ran into real issues. I suspect that Tesla themselves could manage a (smaller) rental EV fleet for those who wanted them, and do decently well (they could rent out used cars they've prepped for sale).
• elliotec 3y ago
  This is interesting. Last summer my family had a trip to LA and rented a car through Hertz. I'm a Gold member through Delta status (which is 1000% better than trying to use Hertz without the status), so they had an upgrade for me - a Tesla Model 3, which was by far the cheapest option. I live in Utah, drive a (hybrid) F-150, and had never driven a Tesla. It was fun and novel but a PITA to figure out charging (at Disneyland no less). When returning the car I was a little surprised to see what seemed like hundreds of Teslas on the lot. We have another SoCal vacation this summer, and I expected to see a Tesla at the top of the list again, but I was surprised to see that it wasn't even an option, and the other EV (I think a Bolt) was 50% more to rent than the standard Jetta. So we got the Jetta /shrug
  • bombcar 3y ago
    It's the people who wanted to "rent a car" and ended up with a Tesla without understanding the difference and got annoyed/angry that will really sling the deal. Even if 10% of the customers would be fine with it (I'd love to rent one to see what it was like) it's not worth bifurcating the fleet.
• bearjaws 3y ago
  A rental Tesla has to be one of the worst ideas, people crash rentals way more often than their daily driver. Teslas have a high cost to repair and long down time...
• ShakataGaNai 3y ago
  This is not really surprising due to the business model Hertz was going after. They expect their used vehicles to have better resale values than what they currently have... which is a bunch of Tesla's bought at more or less the peak of pricing and now to be sold when prices have come down to sanity. They rode the market and lost. Also they got a LOT of EV's, I give them props for doing so... but rental cars should be a little more diverse of fleets. I realize it's easier to maintain a few types of vehicles, but that's not the business they are in. Additionally, Tesla is not yet the type of company that can readily support fleet purchasers. It'll be a while before they are, so until then you're looking at a lot of pain. Its really no different than buying Apple for business use in 2010 (give or take). Lots of companies were starting to do it, but at that time there were only 4 Apple stores in the US that even had a "business team". Apple was not setup to handle it and still, to this day, are very very slow to roll out business centric features and functionality.
  • bombcar 3y ago
    Companies like Hertz have a lot of issues that people don't consider, and making another division in the fleet makes it worse. Over time, one-way rentals tend to congregate specific vehicles in specific areas, and so you have to have ways of "undoing" that. Having EV cars slowly pool in an area is going to be perhaps MORE annoying than just having too many SUVs, because most people will say "ooo free SUV upgrade" but will balk at "ooo free EV upgrade". That with the double-whammy of dropping resale value (because new ones are cheaper) along with additional customer complaints, means they really have no major reason to continue. If the EVs were working for them, they'd buy more to replace the ones aging out of the fleet.
  • verisimi 3y ago
    > Also they got a LOT of EV's, I give them props for doing so... Why give them props? It sounds like an obvious waste of their money and resources, one that could easily have been foreseen and calculated. How can a company that specialises in cars like they do, make such an obvious error, like buying 20k EV cars? They are not consumers making lifestyle decisions, they are meant to be running a business!
• orenlindsey 3y ago
  Apparently the big problem is repair costs. They should buy Cybertrucks, those things are indestructible. One got in a head-on collision recently and didn't even get dented, no one in either car was hurt Edit: this is a joke, by the way
  • remh 3y ago
    that's not how physics work
    • FlyingAvatar 3y ago
      It can work if the other car took more of the damage than it would have compared to a collision with a "squishier" car. Would be interested to see a Cybertruck vs Cybertruck crash.
      • orenlindsey 3y ago
        > Cybertruck vs Cybertruck crash An unstoppable force hitting an immovable object.
      • remh 3y ago
        parent said: "no one in either car was hurt". If the cybertruck didn't have any damage it means that no energy was dissipated by "squishing it", basically it made the impact twice as bad (compared to a regular squishier car) for the occupants of both cars. Maybe indeed no one got hurt, but then it means that the crash was at super low speed.
        • theultdev 3y ago
          I saw the twitter post of what they're talking about. It was just the way the car hit it I guess, CT was basically untouched, everyone was fine, but it was high enough speed to total the other car. It's not really an indicator of anything, just an interesting happenstance. CT didn't crumple because it wasn't hit where it needed to crumple.
      • 3y ago
• elintknower 3y ago
  This is an absolute dream for anyone with a services business ready to re-up or replace their fleet of vehicles. Most of these hertz teslas were barely driven and those with defects are generally pretty easy to catch and they're desperate to get rid of them at bottom of the barrel prices. It almost makes me want to quit my dev job and start a plumbing or electrical biz.
  • itsoktocry 3y ago
    >It almost makes me want to quit my dev job and start a plumbing or electrical biz. Ummm...I think there's a little more to running a plumbing company than the type of vehicle you're driving to service calls in.
• jetrink 3y ago
  I would think that car rentals would be one of the slowest areas for electric adoption. You're immediately limited to people only intending to drive short distances, which is less common for car rentals than day-to-day car ownership. Of those, many will be people far from home where they're not familiar with the charging infrastructure. Maybe they can stay at a hotel with chargers, but what if there are only a couple and they don't get one one night? It just sounds like a way to make planning a trip more complicated.
  • legitster 3y ago
    On the other hand though, rental agencies can normally get away with offering a broad set of options and price points for any niche. https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/vehicleguide/index.jsp?targetPage=vehicleGuideHomeView.jsp&countryCode=US&category=Adrenaline%20Collection https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/vehicleguide/index.jsp?target... So it's moreso that they can't find a profitable price point to justify keeping it in the general car pool.
• apapapa 3y ago
  EVs cost more in almost every way... I had to pay $900 for 3 weeks of super charger ... And since it was a rental the cost was a surprise at the end. In addition to that, they gave me a model 3 when I was trying to rent the most basic gas model (for the same price). I'm glad I got to try it but never again. I thought I was getting a good deal...
• houseatrielah 3y ago
  CNBC did a better job than this low-density article. Why Hertz’s Bet On Tesla Isn’t Paying Off In The U.S. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfbkvUXTV_I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfbkvUXTV_I "pricing troubles, skyrocketing repair costs and low resale value"... They turn their fleet over every 2-years or so, so resale value is important, and with prices of new EVs coming down, the resale value will be significantly lower than a new model.
  • JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > with prices of new EVs coming down Prices of new Teslas coming down. This is incredibly specific to Hertz's bet on Teslas.
    • jjoonathan 3y ago
      Are other brand EVs selling at high prices? Or are they sitting on lots at high prices?
      • zardo 3y ago
        For a resale impact it doesn't matter much if the price is low or high, it matters if the price drops.
        • JumpCrisscross 3y ago
          > a resale impact it doesn't matter much if the price is low or high If you're actually trying to sell them, it does. If you're marking your assets on a balance sheet, the "price" matters more than the price.
    • maronato 3y ago
      If Tesla lowers their prices, other EVs manufacturers are forced to do the same to remain competitive. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-cuts-prices-electric-vehicles-us-market-2023-01-13/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
• ado__dev 3y ago
  I have had an EV since 2018, love it to death, but would absolutley never rent one. The biggest pain point with EVs imo is charging infrastructure. My personal car, I can charge at home so it becomes a non-issue. But if I'm traveling to a new city that I'm not super familiar with, I do not have any desire to plot out where charging stations are, is the hotel going to have charging, is it going to be operational, etc. Too much headache and cost of public chargers on top of premium cost to rent an EV just doesn't make much sense.
  • aweijrawiej 3y ago
    I charge my Tesla at home and I love it. But I visited family over christmas and driving around in their Rivian I was reminded how absolutely shit non-tesla charging still is. I'm not at all surprised EV sales are dropping when charging is as awful as it is.
    • bdcravens 3y ago
      I have a non-Tesla EV (Kia EV6). I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gotten it if I didn't charge at home. (We've done a couple of long trips in it, including cross-country, but I had lower expectations of what the experience would be like)
    • pengaru 3y ago
      Didn't I read in the news that Tesla had opened up its supercharger network to other brands?
      • dangrossman 3y ago
        Yes, but not in a way that benefits anyone immediately. They made deals with each individual brand (I think every US make except Stellantis now), in which those brands will start putting Tesla charging ports on the cars in future model years, and in some cases offer adapters to existing owners starting in 2024 or 2025. Each brand also needs to integrate with Tesla for payments in some way, since 99.9% of their charging stations don't have screens or payment terminals. The predictions I've read are that will mean new versions of each company's mobile apps, rather than having non-Tesla owners use Tesla's app.
• ballenf 3y ago
  > it would sell about 20,000 electric vehicles, including Teslas, from its U.S. fleet due to higher expenses related to collision and damage, and will opt for gas-powered vehicles. The repair costs and turnaround time seems like Tesla's achilles heal right now. Insurance costs on a Tesla were the primary deciding factor in me putting off a Tesla purchase. From my preferred insurer, the premium was 50-60% higher than for a similarly priced ICE vehicle. And Rivian is way higher than Tesla to insure. I really think EV makers need to prioritize repairability in their next push. It's more important to me than extra range. It will both lower initial costs and reduce EV depreciation. An out-of-warranty EV has to be very cheap for it to make sense.
  • etimberg 3y ago
    Unfortunately for consumers repairability would harm efforts to treat cars like subscriptions so I doubt EV manufacturers care
• eptcyka 3y ago
  I was under the impression that EVs would be a better fit for exactly this kind of a purpose - they're easier on the consumables other than tires and more resilient to abuse. Is it the lack of 3rd party part availability that makes damage repair more expensive?
• yabones 3y ago
  Copying this over from the other thread - It makes sense... EV's pay for themselves over the long run, much longer than rental cars stick around for. They typically lease them for up to three years and then flip them for newer vehicles. EV's have lower TCO, but only if you keep it for a decade. With a higher sticker price and insurance, it makes sense the rental sector is having cold feet. Anecdotally, the exception was Japan, where my wife and I rented a pristine ten year old Aqua direct from Toyota, but that sort of vertical integration seems to be rare here.
• harshaw 3y ago
  We are 5-10 years too early to be renting EVs. I have seen folks in Vermont who have rental EVs because those were the last on the lot. There is not enough infra, you need a bunch of apps, you need to understand how EVs work with weather and driving conditions, etc. This just hinders EV adoption because all of these people will never get an EV for the forseable future because they aren't early adopters but were forced into it. So yeah, it's kind of obvious why Hertz would dump these cars.
• s0rce 3y ago
  I rented a Tesla from Hertz once in Houston and the whole experience was terrible. Got to the counter and the agent first suggested that I take a gas car for $25/day. I was confused because that was so cheap, although the Tesla was already heavily discounted. Apparently, this was $25/day above what I had paid for the model 3 and it was for a compact economy car. I stuck with the Tesla. The agent warned me that repairs were very expensive and I need to have insurance, which I had bought and my company also provided. Stuck with the Tesla. I was told I need to return the car charged or I would be billed for "filling it up". I was confused why they couldn't charge at the airport and also explained that if I charge near my hotel it will likely not be 100% when I get to the airport. They couldn't say if that was ok. I went outside to get the car and they had to go get it, a few people asked me what I was waiting for while I stood there. People getting gas cars were quickly served. I got the car and was again told that I need to return the car charged, explained again that it won't be 100%. The agent said that 85% is fine. He asked me if I had driven a Tesla before, I had not, I expected he would show me the vehicle and provide some guidance. He simply handed me a QR code and wandered off. I got in the car and it was only at 80% charge. I figured out how to drive it on the way out of the parking lot.
  • saiya-jin 3y ago
    I am not a huge tesla fan but to expect that car rental employees will babysit every customer and show them all the cars in detail is... unrealistic. I was once spending maybe an hour to figure out how to start and move a rental mercedes after picking it up, and next to me was some german guy in exactly same situation with same model. Eventually we managed to figure it out with phones.
    • s0rce 3y ago
      I agree, if it was just the issue with showing me the car it would have been excusable, although I'm not sure what would happen to someone less tech-savy, but anyways. It was the combination of issues at every step along the way that made the experience less than stellar.
    • wolverine876 3y ago
• nixass 3y ago
  Sixt is dumping Teslas for same reasons as well. On the other hand they are increasing their Chinese EV fleet in Germany at least https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/08/sixt-dumping-teslas-due-to-high-repair-costs-depreciation/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/08/sixt-dumping-teslas-due...
• peteforde 3y ago
  Hang on... people rent cars to drive for Uber? How can the economics come even remotely close to working out? I was under the strong impression that Uber drivers make dirt and that it's difficult to do much more than break even, assuming you own/lease your own car. Either Hertz is insanely cheap or Uber pays more than I thought.
• neverminder 3y ago
  I live in one of those upscale glass tower estates in central London. There is fancy valet underground parking for some 500 cars. There are 2 slow chargers in total that don't even work 50% of the time. Owning an EV is a fucking joke for most people and I don't see that changing any time soon. Rebuilding entire world's power grid is gonna take forever.
• bdcravens 3y ago
  It may also have to do with the fact that the refreshed Model 3 is now available for order in the US, and the Model Y is probably not too far away. I feel like the used market is about to be flooded with those cars, tanking resale value. (which has already dropped substantially) Resale value is a big aspect of rental car companies' profitability models.
• shadowgovt 3y ago
  So you're saying it's a good time to buy a cheap electric vehicle?
• alexb_ 3y ago
  [flagged]
  • TOMDM 3y ago
    There are ways to make this criticism where people would take you seriously.
    • leoh 3y ago
      Your comment is equally inflammatory to me. Behind the diction and emotionality of the poster, there are some entirely reasonable points that recapitulate the article itself.
      • TOMDM 3y ago
        I agree that there are reasonable points, that was the purpose of my comment, I thought the poster had something to offer, but am of the opinion that people won't take them seriously because of their approach. Emotion is even a valid addition to the conversation if they thought it added to their point. What is unproductive is expressing that emotion by calling a car brand "absolute cancer". I think it's valid to be upset about Tesla as a brand. I think it's valid to call out repairability issues. Coming across as hysterical means that people won't take you seriously despite that.
  • stcredzero 3y ago
    Really, because my understanding, based on an earlier Hertz president interview, was that the maintenance cost was 1/2 what their typical fleet vehicle was.
    • metalliqaz 3y ago
      he was probably just repeating what Musk had told him to make the sale, but of course Musk speaks only in varying degrees of B.S.
    • stoddur 3y ago
      I own a 2017 Model S and the maintenance cost over these 6 years has been 1000 USD (change brake calipers at the end of year 6). For EV owners it’s definitely lower but damage collision repairs are probably more expensive.
• CharlieDigital 3y ago
  Not sure about the economics for the rental companies, but for a consumer, there are practical reasons why electric aren't quite as attractive. When you rent a car, more than likely you will be in unfamiliar territory. So it seems that it just adds to the stress of travel and yet another thing you have to pay attention to. Will my hotel have charging spots? Will I be able to charge at the client site I'm visiting? How do I plan this long leg of the trip that I need to drive?
  • stcredzero 3y ago
    When you rent a car, more than likely you will be in unfamiliar territory. So it seems that it just adds to the stress of travel and yet another thing you have to pay attention to. Will my hotel have charging spots? Will I be able to charge at the client site I'm visiting? How do I plan this long leg of the trip that I need to drive? As a Tesla owner, driver, and 3 times Hertz Tesla renter, let me attest: - Hertz staff are poorly trained for Tesla rentals - The "must use same credit card" thing is worst than an absolute nightmare if one doesn't have the exact same credit card, landing late at night on a holiday weekend. The experience is so extremely bad, it sounds fictional!
  • gumby 3y ago
    FWIW I rented an electric volvo in november and its built in map (displayed by default even if you weren't using its nav system, which I did not) displayed charger sites. As it happened my hotel had a charger in the parking garage and the valets plugged my car in for me. One anecdote does not data make, and I didn't know at the time of reservation that my hotel would be adequately equipped.
    • rondini 3y ago
      As a second anecdote, I also rented one from Hertz (Polestar 2) and while it could navigate me to charging stations, at least 50% of the time I was unable to charge at a given location due to technical issues. It was bad enough that I had to divert 30 minutes off my planned route to find a working charger. I look forward to owning an EV someday but the rental experience right now and in my state was VERY stressful.
• penjelly 3y ago
  i distinctly remember an article from 2 years ago about them buying like 100k teslas. Look like theyre now up for 14k a pop
• drcongo 3y ago
  Given how many times this story has appeared on HN today, should we assume oil lobbyists?
• laweijfmvo 3y ago
  > While Hertz isn’t directly pointing a finger, it appears that Tesla has been largely to blame. > Tesla has been aggressively cutting its vehicle prices leading other automakers to do the same for their electric vehicles. When automakers reduce the prices of new vehicles, that pushes down the value of those models in the used car market, causing rapid depreciation. How dare Tesla reduce their prices without asking Hertz first
• kloch 3y ago
  There is a massive disconnect between the attitudes toward EV's of people who have owned EV's and those who have not. Range anxiety tends to dissipate after a short time of real world driving experience. You're just not going to rent EV's to many non-owners, even if they are going to be driving less than 100 miles (typical business trip where you fly then rent a car).
  • penjelly 3y ago
    > Range anxiety tends to dissipate after a short time of real world driving experience disclaimer: havent owned. but i disagree with this, and others have mentioned in thread already. range anxiety dissipates for most people because 1. they mostly drive daily commutes of areas they know and 2. they become intimately familiar with the Tesla and how it finds the next supercharger for you on route. Both of these dont apply when renting a car most times.
  • topkai22 3y ago
    I’m not an EV owner but plan to be one on my next purchase. The EV renting experience is bad. I got one though Avis, I believe a Kia Niro. I was told that I’d be charged if I brought it back under 80%. It was at 81%. Ok fine, I’m driving less than 50 miles and returning it. I’ll find a charger, since my AirBNB didn’t have charger. We tried to use the on board map to find a charging station. It took us two tries to find on that was actually public, which was at a fire station. It took over an hour to go from 70% to 85%. I never had range anxiety about the car itself, but trying to return it full enough was anxiety inducing, even though it wasn’t that big a fee. I feel my experience would have been really improved if 1) they made the fee be a sliding amount based on how close you returned it to where you checked out and 2) there was an onboard L1 charger you could use with a normal plug.
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
• drzaiusapelord 3y ago
  “[C]ollision and damage repairs on an EV can often run about twice that associated with a comparable combustion engine vehicle,” Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr said in a recent analyst call. --- This is concerning. These cars are essentially delicate ipads with wheels and repairs for them are costly and specialized. Driving, in general, is dangerous and accident prone. Waking up to twice your repair cost or insurance premiums must not be great for Hertz. Also the article doesn't mention the EV value cut-off unrelated to MSRP. When the battery reaches 50-60% of its top capacity, then range anxiety is back. No one wants a 150-100 mile Tesla, or worse in the winter with the heating on. Range issues aren't a big deal with regular owners as with regular use they only lose 10-15% range in the first few years, but Hertz drives theses hard everyday, unlike someone with a suburban commute who gets groceries on the weekend. Who knows what their internal data is suggesting. Id be very, very hesitant to buy a Hertz used Tesla. I'd want to see how bad the battery is first, especially what its real world range is in the winter. I wouldnt be surprised because how hard these cars are run, they'll have more battery degradation per year/per mile than a well kept car babied by someone who loves their Tesla. I just took a look on their website and the long range sedan I'd be interested in at that trim level 2024 model is going to be about $50k. Hertz has a 2022, a less than 2 year old car, with 80k miles for asking $31k. A 40% depreciation in 2 years is very rough. Their resale value is particularly punishing. Hertz doesn't keep cars for all that long, so a tough depreciation isn't something they can ignore.
• InvertedRhodium 3y ago
  I drive an EV every day in NZ, but even when I went on a road trip through Arizona/Nevada/California I rented a petrol car simply to avoid the additional overhead of having to worry about the availability of charging infrastructure. I completely understand why they don’t work well as rental cars.
• cameldrv 3y ago
  Teslas are extremely expensive to own. As the article says, collision repairs are extremely expensive, partially because of the design, partially because Tesla essentially fully controls the repair market. Also as mentioned in the article, depreciation is very high. I'm not fully sure why this is, but there is to some degree the same effect with luxury brands -- BMW, Mercedes, etc, where a lot of the signaling value is lost when the car is old, but the parts/maintanence are still extremely expensive.
  • stcredzero 3y ago
    Teslas are extremely expensive to own. BS. Cheaper by far than any gas car, in time and money! Half the cost to fuel. No more emissions check. No more oil changes. No more visits to the gas station. As the article says, collision repairs are extremely expensive I suspect this is also BS. That's par for the course with media outlets w/Tesla.
    • t3rabytes 3y ago
      My own experience with having our (now-lease-returned) Model 3 backs up collision repairs being more expensive. I live a major metro that has a single repair shop certified to work on Tesla vehicles. They have a multi-month wait, and they charge more to repair Tesla vehicles than the equivalent luxury vehicle because they can. A newer luxury SUV with an MSRP 2x of our Model 3 had a lower collision premium on our car insurance policy.
      • stcredzero 3y ago
        I don't think it works like this, if you get the Tesla insurance. Switching to Tesla insurance indicated to me, that the current premiums are heavily distorted.
        • t3rabytes 3y ago
          Tesla's insurance product wasn't/isn't available in my state (NC), so I can't speak too much to it.
• nosequel 3y ago
  Interesting tidbit at the end. > Besides costing more to repair when they’re damaged in a crash, Scherr also said, EVs are also getting in more crashes. then > Our work with Tesla is to look at the performance of the car, so as to lower the risk of incidence of damage I'm curious if they are working with tesla to <reduce> the performance? Are people getting into accidents because they aren't used to teslas' acceleration vs. a typical gas car? Or are people getting into accidents for other performance reasons, eg: cornering / braking?
  • stcredzero 3y ago
    Are people getting into accidents because they aren't used to teslas' acceleration Most likely. Even the lowest end Tesla can scare the pants off of a passenger who has never been in an EV before. I know this from personal experience. An EV driver noob who stomps on the pedal has a chance of panicking and death-stomping on the pedal more.
    • kyleee 3y ago
      Yeah I actually wish they offered a Tesla with about 1/3rd of the power and better range / smaller battery
• david422 3y ago
  > they have higher damage-repair costs People tend to treat rentals with not a lot of care. That seems like it could certainly add up.
  • VBprogrammer 3y ago
    Is that really a thing? I'm super paranoid when I have a rental car, the idea of taking it back and having them basically able to charge you what they like for any damage gives me the fear.
• louwrentius 3y ago
  I wonder what the impact of 20K Teslas flooding the second-hand market would be...
• Animats 3y ago
  This article doesn't mention that, apparently, Uber drivers are renting or leasing cars from Hertz. Hertz markets this to Uber drivers.[1] This is apparently terrible for Hertz. Uber drivers put a lot of miles on the vehicles. Plus, Teslas are expensive to repair. On top of that, the auto rental business is a speculation in used car futures. That's why it hurt Hertz when Tesla reduced prices. This all reflects on Hertz's accountants, who should have seen this coming. [1] https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/misc/index.jsp?targetPage=uber_landing_page.jsp&LinkType=HZLK https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/misc/index.jsp?targetPage=ube...
• Proven 3y ago
  [dead]
• Zanni 3y ago
  I've rented Teslas from Hertz twice, about one year apart. The process has improved considerably in that time, so I don't think this is an indication that Hertz has turned bearish on Tesla. The improvements include an on-display tutorial for how a Tesla differs from other models in their fleet (including door operation, use of keys and charging) and the ability to use your phone as a key. This last is very nice quality of life improvement.
• gcanyon 3y ago
  I've rented Teslas from Hertz and Avis. The experience was nominal; the only issue the first time was my lack of familiarity with Teslas, and Hertz's onboarding for them was weak. But otherwise everything has been fine whenever I rented them.
• screamingninja 3y ago
  I tried renting one in Hawaii last month. Figured it would be a great idea on an island where I could drive all day and easily charge overnight. Wrong. - Our hotel (and many others) did not offer EV charging. In most places, there was no assurance that the chargers would be functional. - Oahu has very limited level 3 charging. Finding a supercharger meant driving out of the way. - Hertz wanted me to top-it-off before returning. I was mindblown when I realized that they had a fleet of EVs but no in-house charging equipment. Had Hertz offered to charge it themselves upon return, I would have still taken it, but asking me to sit around for a few extra hours at an L2 charger just before returning the vehicle was definitely a deal-breaker.
• leroy_masochist 3y ago
  I feel like there's a big market opportunity to create an EV-only rental car agency that will eventually get rolled up by an Avis or Hertz. Besides the body damage repair cost mentioned in the article, one other reason for Hertz' decision has to be customer complaints. Car rental agencies frequently have to give people a different car than the one they reserved and for whatever reason, a lot of Americans have a bone to pick with electric vehicles. Having traveled extensively for work over the years, I've seen some pretty stunning meltdowns from the people ahead of me in the Hertz line when they got, e.g., a Traverse instead of a Tahoe (i.e., a marginally smaller SUV than the one they reserved). Imagine the theatrics that ensue at the Honolulu airport when an entitled boomer out of central casting (sorry to stereotype) gets a Bolt instead of the Malibu they reserved. I could totally see how such incidents, at scale, would bubble up to Hertz leadership and drive decisions. It doesn't seem like there are any electric-only agencies out there except for the Tesla plan to let owners monetize their vehicles during owner downtime. Feels like a good market opportunity and the US Gov would probably subsidize the shit out of it.
• nunez 3y ago
  I have been almost exclusively renting electric cars since late 2022. This makes total sense. Tesla is very strict about their parts distribution. They will only send parts to authorized Tesla service centers, of which there aren't that many. This is extremely unfortunate for rental cars, as they get beat to absolute shit and are in a near constant state of repair. I've rented several Teslas from Hertz and Avis. Almost all of them have had at least one visible non-OEM replacement part on them, and half of them had that part installed incorrectly. Examples: - A replacement backup camera that was pointed way too far downwards. Because this car didn't have ultrasonic sensors, it couldn't do distance estimates reliably. Parking that thing was like going straight back to 2006 every time. - A passenger-side window that didn't align with the top of the window frame, causing air to leak into the cabin and kW/h averages to skyrocket. - Heaps of el cheapo tires. This isn't a problem specific to Tesla, but it's a worse problem with Teslas since their cabins are already loud as they are and non-EV-rated tires throw off energy consumption. It's not _as bad_ with Hertz since they are a Tesla partner, but it's the wild west with other rental car companies. Teslas offered by Avis are almost entirely bought individually from who knows where and I think every single Tesla I've rented from Avis has had something up with it. I can also believe their claim regarding low customer adoption. Most of Hertz and Avis's customers are business travelers on corporate expense accounts. When they want to rent a car, they need a car _now_ and do not want to worry about things like fueling and parking the car. Teslas are a completely different experience from a "normal" car. Their interior is also very polarizing, especially now that Tesla is experimenting with a stalk-less steering wheel cluster. This makes it not only more difficult for rental car companies to put those cars to work, but it also adds toil in the backend from dealing with car returns and clogging the (almost always understaffed) reservation desk with exchanges. Non-Tesla EVs are also impacted by this. Many business travelers just _won't_ with charging apps, especially when they only fuel the cars either just after getting them or just before returning them.
  • _ea1k 3y ago
    Also, with business travel, I generally haven't been allowed to expense fees to returning it with less than a full tank. With EVs, this would mean that I couldn't pay even a reasonable fee for this service. That'd be enough to make me avoid them on business travel, even though I also tend to rent EVs when traveling for leisure.
• Yhippa 3y ago
  Yesterday I went to their website looking to hopefully rent a Cadillac LYRIQ to try out before buying and I was shocked to find that their website is stuck in the early 2000's. Unbelievable.
• kelnos 3y ago
  Regardless of the repair issues they cite, I wouldn't ever rent an EV. Last summer I was attending a wedding in slightly-upstate New York. I flew into Newark airport, and went to rent a car that I'd pre-reserved. They tried to give me an EV. I had no idea what the charging situation would be where I was going, so I declined and asked for and ICE car instead. Good thing, as I didn't see any kind of charging infra at my hotel or at the wedding venue, or anywhere nearby. Renting an EV would mean planning ahead of time and becoming familiar with the charging infra in whatever place I'm visiting. That seems not worth the effort or potential stress. On top of that, I've read of plenty of situations where people go to rent an EV, and find that it's barely charged, and then have to waste an hour or more finding a place to charge it before going about their day. The rep at the rental place will just shrug and say they didn't have time to charge it fully after it was returned.
• tedk-42 3y ago
  Hertz putting the square block in a circular hole and then blaming the square for being a square
• wolverine876 3y ago
  Where do we buy them?
  • gkfasdfasdf 3y ago
    https://www.hertzcarsales.com/used-tesla.htm https://www.hertzcarsales.com/used-tesla.htm
• fuddle 3y ago
  Obligatory: "Yes the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders." https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a16995 https://www.newyorker.com/cartoon/a16995
• mcculley 3y ago
  I rent often and almost always from Hertz. They have recently been trying to push me into renting an EV, which would not work for the ranges I drive. I have waited in line behind other customers arguing about not wanting an EV.
• MBCook 3y ago
  When I rented from Hertz late last year I asked about how people felt about the EVs. The agent said people used to EVs loved them, and almost everyone else wouldn’t touch them with a 10’ pole. Between the cars dropping significantly in value (all EVs have), the lack of maintenance savings if no one is driving them, the cost to repair body panels when hit, and most people not wanting to touch them I can’t blame Hertz. Just too early for the mass market in most places and the wrong brand choice due to repair costs (though choice was very limited at the time).
• natinatinati 3y ago
  I rented Bolt EV from Hertz in San Jose airport. Returned it with full charge. The person receiving the car on return confused range with total miles driven and charged me for not returned the car above the charge level. I explained to him that he is reading odometer wrong but he was so adamant that I am wrong. I am sure Hertz didn't even train their customer facing staff with how EVes work.
• nate 3y ago
  Today I also learned, it's dangerous to rent from Hertz. https://www.npr.org/2022/12/06/1140998674/hertz-false-accusation-stealing-cars-settlement https://www.npr.org/2022/12/06/1140998674/hertz-false-accusa... You might accidentally get arrested for stealing one of their cars. It apparently has happened thousands of times.
  • aetherspawn 3y ago
    This is ridiculous, in Australia it takes a minimum of 2 years and 4-5 court hearings and escalations to get someone into jail. At each level they would have thrown this out and charged Hertz for wasting time. (This is my personal experience of a straightforward theft case where I was the victim and the police actively wanted to get the person behind bars)
  • ohhnoodont 3y ago
    Given that your article (from 2022) states Hertz will pay $168 million to people accused of stealing cars, it seems pretty unlikely Hertz is still making that mistake. Seems totally safe to me. Have there been any recent instances of this?
    • nate 3y ago
      You raise a great point. Maybe they’re good citizens now. On the other hand the Italian restaurant down the street from me was shut down from multiple health code violations including roaches. They’ve reopened. But I’m super hesitant to trust a restaurant that couldn’t stay on top of their roach and other health problems. Or see Apple settling their patent infringement claims and now we’re here again with another patent infringement case. Maybe I’m just too cynical now. I think I’m going to need to see some glowing reviews and press about how Hertz is doing great with customers again.
• fsckboy 3y ago
  I've been seeing a lot of headlines the last month about demand for EVs falling. Of course, it could just be a PR campaign by Big Fossil, I'm not in a position to judge that. I had another idea about it and I'm wondering what other people think: by buying Twitter/X, Musk has waded deeply into the culture war, and we see on HN plenty of people who just can't stand to see his name. It seems a sizable community, could the supposed downward trend in the industry simply be a lot of refusal to buy Teslas? It would not necessarily reflect directly in Tesla sales because reduced demand for Teslas could be made up on margin by other undecided EV brand buyers seeing more availablity of Teslas and switching because they feel Tesla is an upgrade. In a like manner, some of the former Tesla buyers might not be willing to downgrade from a Tesla, so they hang on to their car longer, get a hybrid, etc.
  • ender341341 3y ago
    Other possible reasons - We're in a recession (at least if you aren't upper middle class or above) - Dealers are still acting like there's a supply shortage, so prices are still up but lots are full - Everyone (pretty much) but tesla has commited to migrating to NACS, so if you buy a car now you'll need an adapter, and depending on where you are tesla's chargers are have half the speed if you're using the adapter (like if you're on a 800v based car) - Gas prices seem less volatile at the moment (we'll see how much that stays as the election gets closer)
    • Already__Taken 3y ago
      have the speed - half*? the speed maybe?
    • distortedsignal 3y ago
      Tesla's changers are *half(?) the speed...? I hadn't heard this.
      • ender341341 3y ago
        most existing tesla chargers are 400v (I believe the cybertruck is their first to use 800v), so for other fast charging cars (like kia/hyundai GMP based ev6/ioniq 5) you only get half the speed, so as they update this will start to fall away as an issue.
• double0jimb0 3y ago
  Don’t they have insurance for repair costs? And don’t they ask you 10 different ways from Sunday to pay for insurance when you are checking out? So read another way, they mispriced their repair plan and it’s costing them money.
• hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  I've owned a couple of EVs in my life, and I love them and would never go back to owning an ICE car. At the same time, I don't think I would ever want to rent an EV. Do I know that wherever I'm staying I'll be able to charge? Sure they said they had a charger but what if it's busted? Also, these days if I'm renting a car (as opposed to just Ubering) I'm usually going to use it quite a bit - having to deal with range anxiety or planning out charging stops is the last thing I want to do. EVs are great, but the broader infrastructure is still not as convenient as gas. When I've got a car at my house I know when and where I'll charge it, but when traveling it's just an extra hassle I don't want to deal with.
  • pmontra 3y ago
    So you never traveled with your EVs and used them only between places you either knew had a sure place to recharge or didn't have to because they were in range to come back home?
    • rootusrootus 3y ago
      Not OP, but I'd say I feel similarly if the EV were non-Tesla. If it were a Tesla, in the continental US, I'd be totally fine renting it. Superchargers are all over the place. But I'd definitely try to find a hotel with a level 2 charger, because that's nearly as convenient as charging at home.
• fortran77 3y ago
  I love electric cars, I currently own two of them, and owned several others before. That said, I can absolutely understand why a person wouldn't want to rent one: lack of charging at hotels or places you're likely to visit. At home, I know I can charge at home, at the office, and I'm familiar with the supercharger locations. In a strange city, I just don't want to have to worry about it.
• smsm42 3y ago
  As I have been traveling last year, I've seen several promotions from car rentals to get an electric car. Never took it - first of all, I don't want to drive Tesla because it's not safe (no physical environmental controls, which means, especially on unknown roads, distracted driving, not worth the risk), but I also don't need the trouble of figuring out where I can charge it, would the charger fit, etc. I know with a gas car I can use maps app to find a gas station, it'd probably be within 10 minutes drive and it will work, and I'll be on my way in 5 minutes after. I don't have such guarantee with an electric car. Also, I've been recently on a trip with a friend and they rented an electric (not Tesla). We had to build all our plans around "where can I charge it". I'd probably go for a hybrid, since it doesn't have any downsides like that, but not for fully electric. Of course, it's just my own opinion, but I suspect there are a lot of casual renters that are like me, and Hertz is seeing that.
• Scoundreller 3y ago
  My other issue with renting EVs is my credit card insurance's limit will be based on MSRP, which is a problem because: 1. EVs are more expensive up-front (supposed to pay for it through reduced opex) 2. ex-US/Canada, MSRP includes VAT, inflating it. 3. Nobody effectively pays MSRP for EVs because of various tax credits. 4. Every CC's CDW policy I've read said that they don't cover you at all if you exceed MSRP Maybe my insurance will think #2 is an oversight, but I don't want to test that. Some say "MSRP exclusive of taxes", but again, I don't want that fight.
• tw04 3y ago
  This feels more like an indictment on Tesla than on EVs. Tesla couldn't actually deliver the cars they sold, and their parts are grossly overpriced which is ironic given the quality of parts they're putting out.
• UncleOxidant 3y ago
  Last time I rented a car from Hertz back in November I was surprised how many EVs they had on the lot. I would've thought EV rentals would be kind of niche, but they had several available. As an aside, I was also surprised that they had a special line/desk that was only for Uber/Lyft drivers and there were people in that line. I guess I would've thought that by the time you paid for the rental costs you wouldn't make any money driving for Uber or Lyft.
  • Underphil 3y ago
    It's possible that them being on the lot and not out with customers might also tell a story.
    • echelon 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias#/media/File:Survivorship-bias.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias#/media/File:...
    • UncleOxidant 3y ago
      True. Though one of the Uber drivers was there specifically for an AWD Tesla. I'd guess that's not cheap to rent and would eat into profits. Also the people ahead of us in line rented a Bolt.
• ridderhoff 3y ago
  they made the mistake of buying teslas
• Solvitieg 3y ago
  The elephant in the room is that the depreciation curve on EVs is still not comparable to gas vehicles And it's all because of the consumable nature of batteries. Consumers don't buy used phones for the same reason The ship of theseus doesn't really work for EVs (yet)
  • rootusrootus 3y ago
    That doesn't appear correct to me. Compliance EVs always had horrid depreciation curves. That was because they were compliance cars. But even then, the Bolt has actually held value pretty well, especially recently. Tesla held value really well right up until Tesla started cutting the prices of the new ones. The same thing happens to ICEVs if you cut the price of the comparable new model. You want to see depreciation? Go look at an Audi. The phenomenon probably has more to do with market position than technology. More expensive cars typically depreciate faster unless they are supply constrained. > Consumers don't buy used phones for the same reason Ah, you sound like an Android user ;-). iPhones have pretty good resale value.
• wutwutwat 3y ago
  Irony: Hertz, the company who's name often refers to an electrical wave's cycles per second, ditches an enormous fleet of electric vehicles
• TheAlchemist 3y ago
  I'm old enough to remember, that on the announcement of the initial contract (which by the way was advertised as 100k cars), Tesla shares jumped ~25% in the following 2 weeks. And a week after that, Elon started selling Tesla shares.
• sebmellen 3y ago
  Funny, I just tried to rent a Model 3 from Hertz today, and I was “upgraded” to a Corolla (which they made me pay $33 extra for), even though I was guaranteed a Tesla online. Why? Because I’m not yet 25. Of course, the website let me book it even after I entered my age. Really horrible user experience and customer service.
• dcchambers 3y ago
  Im bullish on EVs but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. EVs are best for the types of driving we do on a day-to-day basis. Short commutes in areas we know well. Charge at home over night and 95% of the year you never worry about charging. Renting a car means I'm usually either driving long distances or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infrastructure. Can I charge at the hotel? What about at Disney World or the San Diego Zoo or wherever else I'm driving on vacation? What if there are no super chargers nearby? Etc... Maybe in a couple decades of battery/energy tech advancements where we can charge faster or swap batteries easier EVs for rentals will make more sense. Until then it's just extra stress you don't want when traveling. I know that's not why Hertz is dropping Tesla (the article sites high repair costs) but it's just my personal thought on rental EVs.
  • mbreese 3y ago
    > or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infrastructure. When I’m traveling for work and need a car, it’s usually for smaller quick trips where I wouldn’t even need to refill a tank of gas. For these types of trips, a single charge on an EV makes sense. But otherwise, I agree with you. EV rental doesn’t make much sense to me for long trips or vacation travel where you’ll be driving a lot in a place you don’t know.
    • nordsieck 3y ago
      > When I’m traveling for work and need a car, it’s usually for smaller quick trips where I wouldn’t even need to refill a tank of gas. For these types of trips, a single charge on an EV makes sense. That might make sense a lot of the time. But there's plenty of exceptions - for example winter time in cold climates can transform a single charge rental into several charges needed. Even with just a few short trips taken.
    • ghaff 3y ago
      And honestly, for the former type of trip, given Uber/Lyft, I'm less inclined to rent a car than I used to be--especially if work is paying--unless I'm doing short side trip(s) that aren't as amenable to just grabbing a ride from an app.
• davelondon 3y ago
  I'm considering renting a Model Y from Hertz in Calgary for three months, but their pricing model is a complete mess: 23/01 -> 30/04 C$10,952.88 (C$111.76 / day) ... but pick it up a day earlier and it's C$4,000 cheaper: 22/01 -> 30/04 C$6,777.00 (C$68.45 / day) Also: 13/01 -> 15/02 C$1,747.00 (C$52.94/day) ... but split it into two rentals and it's C$400 cheaper: 13/01 -> 01/02 C$727.00 01/02 -> 15/02 C$619.00 Total: C$1,346.00 (C$40.79/day) Nothing makes sense. Also, I need winter tyres. That'll be C$25/day extra... No discount for monthly rental. Doesn't make sense. I'm here with my money Hertz, but there's no way I'd deal with such a cluster-fuck.
• kbos87 3y ago
  I only recently started sticking with Hertz because I can reliably get a Tesla from them. It's easy to be a gold member, I walk in, get my car without any hassle at all, scan the QR code in the car, all of my settings magically appear, and it's like I'm driving my own car at home. On the other hand, I think it's insane and a real shame that they just handed unsuspecting people who booked the cheapest car an EV. That's a flat out deception and a major hassle if you aren't ready for it. As is usually the case, Hertz may have raced into the trend a little too quickly, and now they will back off for a period of time. I don't think this says much about the long term trend under which we all end up driving EVs in another 15 years.
• peplee 3y ago
  Rented a model y last month from them and drove nearly 6,000 miles round trip to visit family out of state. Had to stop more than I did when I’ve previously done the drive in my ICE car, but other than that, very smooth experience. The supercharger costs were more than I expected, but basically a wash with gas. More chargers of course are needed (looking at you SE Arizona and West Texas), and it’d be nice to see EVs have a useable range of 300+ miles of highway driving between charging stops.
• osigurdson 3y ago
  High repair costs? I didn't think that there was much to go wrong on an EV.
• coding123 3y ago
  Real title: Hurtz to sell most valuable cars to pay for 168M settlement
• sytelus 3y ago
  Article says that the reason was huge mainly costs which I don’t understand. I thought EVs should have fundamentally much lower maintenance costs given dramatically reduced moving parts. Teslas need far less often oil changes and other services. Also, Tesla should theoretically lasts for million miles while gas vehicles rarely go beyond 2k. So, average TOC per mile should be very small for EVs. Where does math go wrong?
  • defrost 3y ago
    Economies of scale abd pre existing spare part warehousing | JIT production. IIRC correctly this was mainly Tesla EV's (?) which hard a high cost of replacement parts | long waiting times. Some of the other EV models are better situated re: spares and legacy gas vehicles have decades of replacement part infrastructure already in place. > Also, Tesla should theoretically lasts for million miles while gas vehicles rarely go beyond 2k. Here in Australia all our family cars since the 1980s have had at least 600,000 km on the clock before being sold on (a couple hit one million km).
• jve 3y ago
  Anyone else having MSEdge hang on particular links? Well, this one is it. Hang my Edge with many other open tabs twice. First time didn't even get past cookie banner, second time could press reject all but still hang.
• sergioisidoro 3y ago
  I rented a car on a holiday a while ago. I wanted to try electric or plug in hybrid. The car we chose was not available and he said the plug-ins didn't have the charging cable. The guy kept pushing for a brand new car they had, that was also hybrid. I said sure It ended up being an SUV that even being hybrid consumed more gas than an average non hybrid sedan. I had a feeling they didn't want me to rent an electric, or the clerk was pushing me away from it.
• golemiprague 3y ago
  [dead]
• pipeline_peak 3y ago
  A common use case for rental cars these days is EV owners traveling anywhere charging stations aren’t available, like small towns and the countryside. It’s pretty unfortunate they were too short sighted to see the irony.
• redcobra762 3y ago
  I’ll never forget the evening I spent driving around Phoenix desperate to find a place to charge the rental Tesla I had because I couldn’t figure out the charging station near my hotel. I eventually found the adapter in the trunk, and I am confident there were a dozen “right answers” I ought to have known about, but it was a rental and I didn’t at the time own an EV myself.
• alkonaut 3y ago
  I know it's not the reason for dropping EVs but one thing a rental car has to do is work exactly like any other car. Meaning like any traditional car. That means it needs a key/kefob with a lock button on it. It needs a normal UX for the driver It needs a way of refueling/charging the user can be 100% confident they can pull of - in a new city/country and with a new car. Without having to google. An EV you buy yourself seems to be a short week of frustration as you learn where the charging infra is, get 100 new apps for charging, learn the quirks of a car UX the manufacturer thought they might as well change since everything else changed and the car is now apparently a phone. But at least after that frustration it can be a good experience. But with an EV you rent for two days, you can't have a week of frustration. It just doesn't work.
• cik 3y ago
  Here, the local car sharing service had two plans. The first was pick and and drop off wherever you want cars, the second pick up and return cars. The former were electric, the latter gas powered. The electric cars were never powered up. Even when parked beside a charger, people simply wouldn't plug them in. When they did, the cars would charge for lengthy periods of time, and hence be unavailable. Gas won. Despite eletric being half the cost, and more covenient as a one way option, people chose to willingly pay more, and use gas. Today, the same system is gas only. Electric isn't suitable for this use case.
  • Spare_account 3y ago
    When I return a gas powered hire car, I'm required to return it with the same amount of fuel as I picked it up with. I sign a contract that states I'll be charged a higher-than-pump price to top up the car if I breach this requirement. Does the same (or an equivalent, eg: Plug it in to charge upon return) requirement not apply to electric cars?
    • cik 3y ago
      Car rental is different than auto share here. Car rentals work as you depicted. Auto share, is not that. When they tried this with the pay per minute vehicles (both electric and gas) the reality is the time to fill electric made them completely untenable. They also tried battery swaps, that was truly disastrous.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• ricardobayes 3y ago
  People are happy to fiddle with EV's in their hometown, but it adds a lot of stress to figure out apps and charging, especially in a foreign country.
• pkphilip 3y ago
  Whoever thought it made sense to use EVs for commercial use such as cabs hasn't dealt with the problems that EVs pose. 1. The number of public charging points available is very small compared to the number of gas stations. Very difficult to use EVs outside very urbanised areas because of this one reason. 2. Even at the base, you will need a large number of charging points and also access to much larger electricity load - all of which costs a lot more money and infrastructure. 3. It takes time to charge - and even the fastest charging units are usually a bit slower than doing a gas refill. 4. The costs can easily jump if the batteries need to be replaced for whatever reason. 5. Very difficult to put out fires etc.
• gnarlouse 3y ago
  What if, go with me, the US started offering insane subsidies for rail based transit Europe is so far ahead of us on this one it hurts.
• _heimdall 3y ago
  EVs are great commuter vehicles, but they make absolutely no sense for rental cars (or pickup trucks). You pay for a rental car by the hour or day, why would you want to have a vehicle that can drive for a certain period of time and then have to sit for a significant period of time before you can use it again? Not to mention the annoying logistics question of how Hertz would deal with EVs returned with a low charge. With gas vehicles they can happily charge you an excessive fee and spend a few minutes filling it up. With an EV they can still charge you, but the next customer may not be able to use the car for hours. I assume Hertz would ultimately have to float more unused vehicles at busy locations to cover for EVs charging after they were returned.
• mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Interesting to see the government fumble trying to get more EV users.
• yyyfb 3y ago
  I rented a Tesla on a recent trip lasting a few days, and I feel there are other reasons for which is a bad rental car than charging. I've rented a lot of cars, but when I got this one I spent ten minutes completely dumbfounded trying to get it going. They gave me a key card but I couldn't figure out what to do with it. Swipe it, I guess, but where? I tried the door, but the pillar? Would've never guessed until looking online. Pretty much all other cars have keyless entry with a push button on the handle. I couldn't figure out how to adjust the side mirrors, which I always need to do in any rental, until I gave up and looked online. Oh and when I got to where I needed to go, I left the car unlocked because I couldn't figure out how to lock it out or even whether I had locked it. I might have even left it running so that someone could have driven it off, for all I know. I am very used to Android Auto in rentals, which I love because of easy access to the places that I care about (vs the last place than some other rental customer went to), the music that I care about, and the voice assistant that I'm used to. Instead I found the Tesla screen beautiful but distracting and useless without Android Auto. It felt like a design very focused on eliminating hardware controls that are commonplace on most cars - very unusual - and with a strong proprietary, "we know better" bent. So I feel like if you're going to have EVs in your rental fleet, maybe a Hyundai or Kia or Chevy is a better choice than Tesla.
  • twobitshifter 3y ago
    I couldn’t agree more. Tesla has a major problem of not following the standard interaction design of cars. If you have to Google how to do something on your rental car, the designers have failed. Even opening the back door while inside is unorthodox. There’s not a handle to pull, instead it’s a push button that looks like it’s for the window?
    • vvillena 3y ago
      I've been in some Tesla taxis, they usually have to have an arrow sticker pointing at the open button for the door. It's definitely a non-standard car, and while in some cases it can make sense, because the mechanical contraptions behind some of the levers and latches are not a thing anymore, in other cases it's just a way to scream "we're different!" that doesn't help users, or a cost reduction measure. (Also, the ride quality in the back seats is abysmal)
• nerbert 3y ago
  Too bad, EV rental worked great for me with hertz, despite all the terrible testimonials in this comment section.
• voidmain0001 3y ago
  I would say part of this is related to resale value of their fleet. The daily rental companies have been taking a bath repairing their fleet of vehicles due to supply chain problems that force them to hold on to the vehicles for longer than desired. An offset for these companies has been the strong used vehicle market so they could sell a vehicle with 60,000 miles for more than they ever did in the past. The problem is that used EVs don't hold up in value compared to ICE vehicles. I personally know of a case where a customer purchased a Mercedes-Benz AMG EQS 4MATIC+Sedan and sold it after 6 months at a loss of $50,000 because there was no market for it. The EV resale market is a hot potato that no one wants to hold on to.
• wesapien 3y ago
  If only we gave as much thought into the energy production and transmission before the energy consuming devices.
• rabbits_2002 3y ago
  EVs are bad at long distances and take a long time to charge. Rental customers are usually on a tight schedule and need to travel long distances. I don’t know why they thought this would be a good idea.