25 ms·

Not setting up Find My bricked my MacBook

• pierat 3y ago
  Yet another company whom never relinquishes real ownership when they "sell" it. At best, any Apple "purchase" is at best a rental. Stallman is right. And always has been with tech.
  • dagmx 3y ago
    The owner lost his device after declining to setup security. Someone else claimed it and set up those security measures. Unless Stallman believes that users aren’t allowed to set up security, then none of what you said is really relevant.
  • worik 3y ago
    > Stallman is right. And always has been with tech. Love RMS But no, he is not right always...
• DonHopkins 3y ago
  That title is a very hard to parse sentence.
  • lbotos 3y ago
    Yes! I feel like Not setting up Apple's "Find My" ended up bricking my Macbook is easier to parse?
  • codetrotter 3y ago
    Only if you are not familiar with Find My.
    • jojobas 3y ago
      Which is like everyone outside the Apple Reality Distortion Field.
      • DonHopkins 3y ago
        Parse Different
• bagels 3y ago
  Laptop stickers, and don't let your belongings out of your sight at the airport.
  • placesalt 3y ago
    I was going to post the same thing. A moral of the story is: put a sticker on the cover of your laptop. Similarly, a bit of flagging tape[1] on luggage isn't a bad idea. Having an expensive and precious belonging that looks exactly the same as an uncountable number of other people's belongings is, on the face of it, unwise. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagging_(tape) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagging_(tape)
    • jabroni_salad 3y ago
      I wrap the handles of all my travel stuff in patterned washi tape. Multiple times at luggage return I have seen someone else pick it up and then immediately set it back down.
  • jojobas 3y ago
    Better yet, don't use hardware backdoored at the factory.
    • lolinder 3y ago
      Not an option for a lot of people who don't get to choose what they use for work.
      • wkat4242 3y ago
        No but Apple is much easier with unlocking business managed Macs when you have AppleCare Enterprise and can prove the company bought it. Besides, if that happens it's the company's problem, not yours. And they tend to care much more about the data on stolen devices than the hardware itself.
        • 3y ago
• RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
  Reading this actually makes me feel more secure about my Mac laptop. It seems that social engineering attacks on Find My are pretty well guarded against. Just remember to set up Find My.
• kelsey9876543 3y ago
  they kept the unlocked laptop and bought an icloud locked device on ebay and sent that one to you, thats why it took a long time and they wouldnt return it to their airport.
  • toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Author would be able to check the hardware serial number to what they bought from and that receipt, no?
    • kelsey9876543 3y ago
      Apple confirmed it didn't match with "If you need help removing Activation Lock and have proof of purchase documentation, you can start an Activation Lock support request." -> "We are unable to process your request at this time."
      • toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Sure. I’m saying OP could confirm explicitly by turning the device upside down (and looking near the regulatory markings) and pulling the receipt up. Apple is being too opaque considering Apple has the purchase history on file and could communicate, “this device is not in your purchase history, that is why we can’t unlock it.” This leaks no information of value. Edit: no worries!
        • kelsey9876543 3y ago
          ah yes, correct. I don't know if disassembly is required for the HWID when its forced into bootloader lock, and i am not going to experiment to find out haha. But yes correct reasoning. edit: sorry for bad reading comprehension it's late for me >_<
          • russell_h 3y ago
            No disassembly required, the serial number is printed on the bottom exterior of the case.
• e28eta 3y ago
  > included having them use remote access on my iPhone. I don’t understand what this refers to
  • teaearlgraycold 3y ago
    Apple support can view a live stream of your iPhone screen. They used this to confirm what the author saw in their iCloud account.
    • ayewo 3y ago
      Really? Where can I read more about this?
      • teaearlgraycold 3y ago
        Googling a bit yields no results. I had them do this to me though. I think it’s not anywhere in settings. They can request this remotely.
      • fh9302 3y ago
        It's similar to screen sharing over FaceTime. You first have to accept it, afterwards the technician can see a video stream of your phone and tell you where you have to click. They can't directly interact with your phone.
• mjg59 3y ago
  Very small nit: there's a reference to the Apple T2 chip. The Apple Silicon devices don't have a T2 - the functionality is integrated directly into the SoC. If it had been a T2 device then it would be possible to "simply" jailbreak the T2 and wipe all enrolled ownership data, since the T2 is based on the Apple A10 and has the same bootrom vulnerability.
• lmm 3y ago
  > Since Apple isn’t able to handle legitimate requests to disable the Activation Lock like mine, you should turn on Find My on your own MacBook, or risk it becoming a brick like mine. Why do people accept this nonsense when it's Apple? They wouldn't for any other company. You bought and paid for a laptop from them. It's broken. You've gone through their process and they haven't fixed it. At that point you escalate to a credit card chargeback and/or small claims court.
  • Veliladon 3y ago
    >Why do people accept this nonsense when it's Apple? They wouldn't for any other company. Because 99% of the time it saves one's ass. Three times now I've left my iPad in a shopping cart. All three times my phone has gone "WAIT! WHERE'S THE IPAD?" as I left the parking lot and all three times I was able to retrieve the iPad.
    • anigbrowl 3y ago
      ...why would you leave a tablet or a laptop in a shopping cart?! I don't mean 'why did you forget', why would you leave it out of your hand at all, or leave anything in a shopping cart? I pull out my phone to check a price or product specification sometimes when shopping, but then I put it back in my pocket, not in my grocery basket.
      • arcanemachiner 3y ago
        Shit happens.
      • saghm 3y ago
        I imagine they can't fit their iPad in their pockets. I'm guessing they prefer using their iPad to their phone for their shopping list, maybe because it's easier for them to read.
        • anigbrowl 3y ago
          That's what bags are for.
• mdekkers 3y ago
  > Since Apple isn’t able to handle legitimate requests to disable the Activation Lock like mine, you should turn on Find My on your own MacBook, or risk it becoming a brick like mine. Or don’t buy overpriced gear from a company that is aggressively user-hostile. Take them to some kind of small claims court. It is your device, you purchased it from them, and they have no right to refuse to un-brick if they have the ability to do so, just because you didn’t do the magic handshake in the right way.
  • s3p 3y ago
    >Or don’t buy overpriced gear from a company that is aggressively user-hostile. This adds nothing to the conversation. Saying "Just stop using it", when 'it' is the most popular mobile phone in the US and one of the dominant computer manufacturers in the world is a gross oversimplification. You say it's that easy, but it isn't. And you know that.
    • perryizgr8 3y ago
      >You say it's that easy, but it isn't. If it is easy, then people should do it (don't buy from Apple if you want to own your hardware). If it is not easy, Apple is abusing their market dominance and should be regulated accordingly.
    • mdekkers 3y ago
      “Stop buying their stuff” is a perfectly valid action to take, especially when many alternatives abound. As computer manufacturers, they are not even in the top 3, with less than 10% market share in terms of units shipped. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_share_of_personal_computer_vendors https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_share_of_personal_com... Your argument isn’t based on valid assumptions.
• millzlane 3y ago
  I don't understand why if you have the invoice apple won't remove the FMM activation lock from the device. I have gotten apple to unlock devices just with screenshots of them being managed in an MDM at one time and a copy of my work badge. An invoice is like the golden ticket they require that you have.
  • CamperBob2 3y ago
    "Because FY, that's why. We don't have to care. We're literally the phone company." - Apple
    • millzlane 3y ago
      Brought to you by Carls Jr. "FY, I'm eating"
  • kube-system 3y ago
    They really shouldn't. An invoice does not prove current ownership. It proves historical ownership.
    • markus92 3y ago
      So what way could you prove current ownership?
      • Aeolun 3y ago
        Having it in your hands? De facto ownership, if maybe not de jure.
      • thedrbrian 3y ago
        Log into the laptop? /s
      • deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  • r00fus 3y ago
• kube-system 3y ago
  Why would someone not set up activation lock? This is exactly what it is for! > An attacker could “prank” someone by wiping their MacBook, activating it with their own Apple ID, and then reporting it as lost. The victim then has no way to recover it. When you lose physical control of a device, there's an even bigger denial-of-service vulnerability: https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/breaking-a-laptop-computer-with-hammer-picture-id646884838 https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/breaking-a-laptop-compu... There is really no solving denial-of-service problems associated with losing a device. The priority in that case should be preventing unwanted disclosure of data, which is exactly what Apple did here.
  • pwim 3y ago
    I didn't set up "Find My". The connection with the Activation Lock wasn't obvious to me. The main thing Apple emphasizes is that you can recover a missing device. But it wasn't obvious to me how that would work without an internet connection (unlike with an iPhone where I have a data plan). Protecting unwanted disclosure of data is different than preventing the erasing of a device, which is where I'm stuck.
    • junofan 3y ago
      > But it wasn't obvious to me how that would work without an internet connection I believe Bluetooth pinging the iPhones of passersby.
    • kube-system 3y ago
      That's true, as I recall the explanation is pretty brief during setup and they should probably explain it better.
      • andrewstuart2 3y ago
        That's an interesting fight between minimalist designers/product people and a good security team wanting to make things crystal clear. Especially at a company like Apple that really strives to prioritize both. I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.
• wkat4242 3y ago
  > Since Apple isn’t able to handle legitimate requests to disable the Activation Lock like mine, you should turn on Find My on your own MacBook, or risk it becoming a brick like mine. Or not buy MacBooks anymore. I don't want my computer doing anything out of my control.
  • michaelsshaw 3y ago
    Apple products being bricks described as "functioning as intended and therefore a good thing" by Apple fanatics is laughable
    • bitwize 3y ago
      It is a good thing. The most valuable bit of the computer is the data on it. Apple security: * can prevent the data from falling into the wrong hands * significantly reduces the value of a stolen machine, which acts as a theft deterrent
      • wkat4242 3y ago
        The data can easily be well encrypted while the enduser retains full control. And if it's really just about the data it doesn't matter if the machine gets stolen if it's properly encrypted.
      • michaelsshaw 3y ago
        it's perfectly possible to just encrypt data and not completely destroy the machine. bricking the device for the actual owner because it might get stolen one day is Mutually-Assured Destruction levels of lunacy.
  • jameshart 3y ago
    When your laptop has been out of the country in the hands of a stranger for an extended period, it's very much out of your control what it does.
    • 3y ago
• codetrotter 3y ago
  > I also needed to pay ¥11,100 of import duties on it - it didn’t seem to matter that the MacBook was mine. I traveled to Mexico a few weeks ago. In my luggage I had two MacBook Pro laptops and an old ThinkPad. To my dismay the people at the airport in Mexico demanded quite a bit of money, telling me that because I had brought more than one laptop I had to pay import taxes. I am a tourist from Europe traveling with three laptops. I begrudgingly paid up. It’s abusive and stupid to demand import taxes in situations both like that in the OP story and like they did from me.
  • kelsey9876543 3y ago
    Imagine if people from dubai complained about having to pay import taxes to bring a few extra ferraris into the states, we would call them insane, yet a macbook is likely many months comfortable living in most of mexico.
    • zbrozek 3y ago
      If they were then turning around and taking them back out after their stay, that seems like a perfectly reasonable complaint.
      • codetrotter 3y ago
        Exactly. One is for work, and one for personal use. And both of them are coming with me when I leave. The value argument does not hold water to me. Why does the value of two laptops matter, but not the amount of money in my bank account? Why would I go the roundabout way of selling one of my laptops in Mexico, when I have money in my bank account that I can use directly. The whole system is weird. And it ends up unfairly punishing travellers. When they should be focusing on the big scale stuff.
        • JCharante 3y ago
          > Why would I go the roundabout way of selling one of my laptops in Mexico, when I have money in my bank account that I can use directly. Because you might be taking advantage of price differences between markets? iPhones are cheaper in Hong Kong than in Mainland China, so people smuggle them to collect the margin gained by avoiding tarifs https://9to5mac.com/2017/07/18/iphone-smuggler-china-hong-kong/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/07/18/iphone-smuggler-china-hong-ko...
• voltagex_ 3y ago
  Apple creating e-waste like this should negate every single claim they make about environmental friendliness.
• tedunangst 3y ago
  > An attacker could “prank” someone by wiping their MacBook, activating it with their own Apple ID, and then reporting it as lost. The victim then has no way to recover it. An attacker can also prank you by running a drill through your laptop. I feel like this story is just a longer version of "I left my laptop at the airport and never saw it again." The moral should be don't let your laptop leave the airport without you.
• jameshart 3y ago
  Should have been a travel insurance claim. This person lost their laptop at an airport - to all intents and purposes it was stolen. They even bought a replacement on the assumption they weren't going to see it again. The person who returned the laptop returned an unusable MacBook that Apple refuses to even confirm is the original laptop that belonged to them. In addition they incurred shipping and import costs to have this brick shipped. But they don't have their laptop back in working order, so... effectively that laptop was stolen and destroyed, just as surely as if a stranger at the airport had grabbed it and smashed it in front of them. Let the insurance company deal with this stuff.
  • monsieurbanana 3y ago
    Realistically, can this result in anything else besides the insurance company laughing at you?
    • jameshart 3y ago
      An Allianz OneTrip Premiere trip insurance covers $2000 for loss or theft of baggage and personal effects. They reported the loss to airport security. Getting a written notice of that report ought to be enough to file a claim.
      • syndicatedjelly 3y ago
        This entirely misses the point. Using travel insurance for "loss or theft" of something when something is actually, well, lost. The guy has possession of his property, how has anything been "lost"? I really, really doubt a travel insurance company would pay out on this one.
        • corbezzoli 3y ago
          The computer was “lost” for a whole month before being found and 2 months before being returned. You should claim losses immediately anyway so probably he could have gotten the refund before even knowing it was found.
• mikeryan 3y ago
  I’m a bit confused. According to Apple’s documentation Activation lock is enabled when you turn on Find My Mac and disabled when turned off. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208987 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208987 How did it get activated in the first place if it the author never set up “Find My”?
  • Gigachad 3y ago
    From the post it sounds like the person who picked it up wiped the laptop and set up activation lock with their own account.
    • mikeryan 3y ago
      Ah that makes sense. That might explain why Apple won’t deactivate it. They don’t have a way of knowing if the OP sold it to someone and “stole” it back. If the guy who got is legit OP may want to reach back out to that guy and ask him if that’s the case the guy who had it may be able to disable it from Find My.
  • pwim 3y ago
    I'm confused about it to. I suggested some possibilities in the "How did it get locked in the first place?" of the article.
• mattcantstop 3y ago
  I had a similar issue with Apple a few days ago. I was running and an AirPod fell out of my ear and I just happened to be by a drainage drain. It fell through the grate. I immediately rode my bike to the Apple Store (still with a working case and left AirPod) and purchased a replacement right AirPod. The Apple person who helped disconnected the left one and told me to have it plugged in for 30 minutes so the case and AirPods could reconnect and connect to my phone. Except they didn't. I brought it back to Apple after lots of phone calls and troubleshooting and Apple has now told me that something must have gotten messed up with the software. I am able to buy a new pair of AirPods if I would like to, or I can spend $250 for them to diagnose the issue (the price of a new set of AirPods). I can't imagine having a problem like this that seems so obvious to be a software bug and passing that cost down to the consumer instead of making it right. I left the Apple Store in a worse situation than when I arrived. I had a working case and one working AirPod. I left with having spent $90 on my replacement AirPod, with none of them working. I worked at Apple years ago in Apple Retail. I am shocked the people there thought this was the right approach to take. I love Apple products, but this is making me rethink the Apple ecosystem. I am certainly not buying another pair of AirPods. The environmental impacts of this also irk me. Instead of trying to solve the problem they want me to just throw away my AirPods and buy new ones. If a company has a software issue and pushes the cost of that bug onto the consumer the company is incredibly unlikely to ever solve it. Apple pushed the pain point of their software issue onto the consumer. That's a painful experience as a customer.
  • leshenka 3y ago
    Can't believe they can't just re-flash the firmware, shouldn't it take like five minutes?
  • BoorishBears 3y ago
    Have you tried just pairing them again like-new? As in put both in one case, close it, open it, and hold the sync button until it glows white? I've personally lost more Airpods than I want to admit and now have roving pairs of unpaired AirPods in my apartment, which I randomly re-pair when I'm in a hurry and don't want to find the correct pair. I'd imagine that's as much of a torture test for the pairing system as could exist and it still works...
• tjpnz 3y ago
  Did the switch occur when op somehow put his laptop in somebody else's bin or was this the work of airport security?
• palijer 3y ago
  I only used a macbook personally around 2009, but I imagine these days you can't just buy a new drive and install MacOS on it... I don't understand why we accept a product there the above isn't possible. If security is the argument, those claims need to have some proof of a widespread problem actually existing that was solved by removing the ability to swap your drive in your own computer.
  • Gigachad 3y ago
    The point of the feature is to stop theft. Surely we don't need to prove theft is a problem that exists.
    • worik 3y ago
      > The point of the feature is to stop theft A failure then
      • mckn1ght 3y ago
        Hard to know without running the experiment again without the controls to see how much more theft would result were they not in place. I doubt the theft issue would be better without them. You are just letting the perfect be the enemy of the good by demanding absolute results.
      • c23gooey 3y ago
        Please don't reply to every post to try and prove your point. HN is a great place, let's not let it devolve into flame wars
• menshiki 3y ago
  > The stranger wiped my MacBook, set it up for themselves, and turned on Find My How would the stranger know your MacBook's password. Unless it was a very simple password, I don't think this option is very likely.
  • jameshart 3y ago
    How did the stranger figure out their email address?
    • menshiki 3y ago
      If OP used their real name as the account name then I guess it wouldn't be that difficult. Otherwise no idea.
  • LeoPanthera 3y ago
    You can factory reset a MacBook without the login password - if activation lock has not been enabled.
  • lights0123 3y ago
    You can always boot to recovery partition and clean install the OS without Find My lock
  • ddingus 3y ago
    All they need do is go into recovery, wipe the machine and setup fresh. I have done exactly that on an M1 Air I purchased, and that the person who sold it to me bought it new.
    • menshiki 3y ago
      Damn... I feel stupid for not knowing that. I've never used a Mac that was not tied to my Apple ID so I guess that's why.
      • ddingus 3y ago
• renewiltord 3y ago
  Apple is a very happy path company. I set up everything and all my shit is on their stuff. Thank you for sharing your experience. Good to know where the hard edges are.
• zshrc 3y ago
  Forgot this was Hacker News for a second. Hardwares doing its job; locking unauthenticated users out of it. Unfortunately, this is a consequence of not understanding how to use it and you not using it. I wish Apple was more informative about the risk of not using Find My, but this is software doing a good thing. The reason why Macs become bricks is because 9/10 of the times they’re stolen. And guess what? You’re not getting past Activation Lock. Really good deterrent. Sorry this happened to you, but this is Apple doing a good thing and something I wish more manufacturers did.
  • mrzool 3y ago
    It’s not a good thing to lock out users who are clearly and demonstrably the owners of a device. Automated protections are good, but there should be procedures in place to handle cases like these.
    • AgentK20 3y ago
      That's great in a world where people are unable to resell devices, but the concept of "ownership" is fluid in a world where users can sell their devices. I can think of many scams that could abuse a system where anyone who presents an ID associated with a receipt can claim "ownership" of a device and bypass various security measures. Keep in mind, Apple's threat vectors range from "random phone thief" to "state level actors", with equally as varied clientele.
      • pjerem 3y ago
        Still, Apple chose to keep the keys of Activation Lock although they could have made an autonomous system that they could not disable themselves. By keeping a copy of the keys, they are also getting the responsibility to use them when the owner needs them because if they don’t, it raises serious concerns as to why they keep the keys in first place.
      • kelnos 3y ago
        The problem is that you can't permanently disable it. To me, the risk of something like what happened to OP is more concerning than being able to lock a thief out of using/reselling my laptop. So I'd prefer to just disable Activation Lock entirely, and prevent it from ever being enabled. Of course, the ability to do that essentially reduces the theft deterrent somewhat, so Apple wouldn't want to implement this ability.
• throwaway290 3y ago
  The title is clickbait. TL;DR author did not lock MBP to themselves, lost it, someone else wiped it, locked it to themselves and used for a bit before returning without unlocking. That's the point of locking, it's not yours now. Sure the problem is Apple's GUI around how to lock it to yourself. I personally always have Find My on so it never occurred to me that's how it locked. But it's very far from "not setting find my bricked the device". I feel cheated.
  • rado 3y ago
    Thanks, it makes sense now.
• andrewstuart 3y ago
  It's a disgusting waste of resources and extremely anti environmental that Apple bricks its devices. Loads of old second hands Apple devices can never be used again. I suppose that's exactly what Tim Cook wants. Shouldn't be legal.
  • fastball 3y ago
    Activation Lock can be removed by the person that put it there. No legitimate computer without a weird history is going to be impacted by this.
    • andrewstuart 3y ago
      I picked up an old Macbook from a rummage sale and the hard disk was locked. I should be able to wipe it and use that machine.
      • __turbobrew__ 3y ago
        What about picking up some macbooks at the local university library? Should you be able to wipe those and use (sell) them as well? The activation lock is an anti theft mechanism so if you could just wipe it that defeats the purpose.
        • crote 3y ago
          There are plenty of ways to do this without completely bricking second-hand devices. For example, allow the Macbook to be wiped and reused, but inform the previous owner and ask them if it has been stolen. Yes? Trigger lockdown. No? Release ownership to the new user.
• throwaway67743 3y ago
  Why would you give a third party control over your device? You're just renting overpriced devices from Apple at this point, one of the many reasons I stopped buying iPhones (that and they're just awful anyway, the UI/ux is offensive.) By using this crap you're allowing Apple to brick your device on a whim etc if they feel like it.
• sargun 3y ago
  It sounds like the other person tampered with the computer. Either by swapping HW, or adding their own iCloud info. I believe at least with older MacBooks, if you swapped the logic board, it’d effectively remove any kind of association with the iCloud account / MDM. I wonder if OP can do that.
• vietvu 3y ago
  There are an awful number of Macbook got bricked and there no no other way to destroyed it as scrap. Yes, it is quite intended, but irony for the company claimed that they protect the environment. An old article, not sure the same one I read, but same problem: https://www.vice.com/en/article/akw558/apples-t2-security-chip-has-created-a-nightmare-for-macbook-refurbishers https://www.vice.com/en/article/akw558/apples-t2-security-ch...
  • threeseed 3y ago
    Not sure why it would need to go to scrap when much of the device is recyclable.
  • dagmx 3y ago
    That article was pretty widely derided because it’s only applicable to third party companies trying to resell the entire Mac. They don’t have a way to prove ownership but could still salvage the parts, but don’t. They’re the ones who are choosing to accept these devices and then scrapping them. It’s a grey market issue
    • crote 3y ago
      No, Apple has also been locking down part salvaging for years now. Many parts are now cryptographically linked to a specific device, and swapping them out between devices simply will not work. They are scrapped because for all intents and purposes they are scrap.
      • dagmx 3y ago
        Parts linkage is only a thing on the mobile devices. Additionally, even on the mobile side, Apple can recycle or reuse them. So they’re not scrap unless you can’t get ownership formally. The article in question was for a company that was tasked to dispose of the devices and wanted to double dip by reselling. They didn’t want to ask their customers to remove the activation locks because it would cut into their double dipping.
  • mckn1ght 3y ago
• fastball 3y ago
  Did the author try asking the UAE person to de-register the computer from their account? Not seeing any mention of that but that seems like it would be my first step before trying to get Apple to do anything. They were willing to send it back to you, so if they really did just wipe it so that they could use it, seems like they'd probably be willing to remove the lock.
• matteoraso 3y ago
  The macbook should still be usable if you wipe the OS and replace it with Linux. Still, that shouldn't be necessary, considering this is a problem that Apple created.
  • worik 3y ago
    > if you wipe the OS and replace it with Linux. Can you do that on modern Macs?
  • filchermcurr 3y ago
    Isn't activation lock part of the firmware, not macOS? It might work on an older Intel Mac with a T2 chip (you can jailbreak those, entertainingly enough), but probably not on the ARM ones.
• edandersen 3y ago
  If Find My was not activated, therefore there was no Activation Lock, the most likely scenario is that the other person just reset and activated it themselves with this "mysterious" new iCloud account and is lying about it. The device can still be attached to Paul's original Apple account if its not removed from the list of devices by Paul, new activation lock or not.
• photonbeam 3y ago
  Seems like a warranty claim if your device is broken
  • laurent123456 3y ago
    I'm surprised he didn't even try that. That's a brand new laptop - go to a store and have it replaced. Or if they won't do it because of this activation lock, then purposely break it and say it stopped working.
• worik 3y ago
  Why are people still buying Apple products? For another two weeks I am making my living as an Apple developer. Then I'm gone. I started programming in the late eighties on Mac Plus In the intervening years, they have gotten awful Everything looks good, but it all mostly works Mostly works is not good enough Just walk away
  • bdlowery 3y ago
    Because Apple makes the best laptops for “programming”, their battery lasts for over 16 hours of straight use, and they’re extremely fast. The days of Apple having bad laptops ended with the M1 chip
  • adrianmsmith 3y ago
    Walk away to what? I am currently using Linux on the desktop on my work laptop. It's fine, but lots of things don't work (e.g. camera doesn't work at all). Last time I used Windows about 5 years ago it updated itself and it took most of a morning to sort out and get four programs which it had broken to work again. I had a deadline that day so that wasn't extremely convenient.
    • worik 3y ago
      > Walk away to what? A reasonable question > I am currently using Linux on the desktop on my work laptop. It's fine, but lots of things don't work... I have been regularly developing on and for 3 OSs, Linux (Mint and Raspberry Pi), MacOS (including iOS), and Windows. My verdict is: * as far as user interface goes it is taste whether Linux or MacOS. * The Linux machines are more reliable than the Macs, just. It is close run and other people probably have different experiences. But they are on a par * Tools. Linux wins by a big margin. The MacOS command line is a Unix (BSD I think) command line ten years out of date. The package management is either the official App Store (is it called that on MacOS?) that is full of utter rubbish or homebrew, which I really appreciate, is a good effort, but a long way behind Debian. The compilers on MacOS are unreliable, the default IDE (Xcode) has a lot of nice features out of the box, and in the three years I have been using it some are starting to work better, but it has a long way to go. Swift would look good, if Rust did not exist. The ergonomics committee from Rust - if any body listening - I love you people. Swift has nothing like that. Swift's concurrence model is really bad. Really bad. Embarrassingly bad. ARC was a good idea in the nineties for simple languages but there is no excuse for using it as the main memory management in the twenty first century. I will stop ranting now, but you get the picture. I could have a rant three times as long For the tools on Linux, less promises are made, quality varies, but it is all fundamentally honest. The underlying Unixisms are up to date, the compilers are top notch, all the languages I could ever want are first class citizens (I have no interest in .Net - it might not be) etcetera. So, from my perspective - perhaps not others, it is Linux that I have walked away to No need to even talk about windows. Makes me weep
• sschueller 3y ago
  He has a purchase receipt and his name is connected to this specific device in apple's systems! What else would apple want to unlock it? The only scenario where they should not do this if he sold this laptop and then stole it back but that is so unlikely they should just unlock it.
• PeterStuer 3y ago
  Ah yes, Apple support. It's been decades, sure things must have changed now, but as an anecdote. Back then my wife and me both used computers for work at home. I had a Dell, she had an Apple. When my Dell needed repair, a technician would come to the house next business day (it was a standard support option you clould choose back then even for their 'consumer' line) and perform the task. When her Mac needed repair, the only option was to deliver it by hand to the Apple store in town, and then you could pick it up again in 2 weeks. There was no other option. That was the last time she used an Apple product for work.
  • syndicatedjelly 3y ago
    I had to get a Dell XPS 13 laptop repaired in 2009. The hinge had broken (probably my fault for tossing my backpack around). I contacted support, and a day later the bell rang. A young tech jockie with slicked back hair politely appeared, a silver BMW M3 in the background. He quietly ignored the errant super glue residue around the hinge, my bodged attempt at a self repair. He sat at our dining table for about 45 minutes and expertly conducted the repair. I remember the quiet rumble of that M3 V6 as it left the neighborhood. That computer served it's duty faithfully for another 2 years, before I upgraded to a new computer (another Dell XPS). I have no idea how that could be a profitable business model, but Dell's support really impressed me that day.
    • harry8 3y ago
      Dell pushed out a bios update, relayed on by ubuntu, that bricked mine because after the update I closed the lid and put it in my bag because I bought a laptop. Situation: I was beside a child's ICU bed. The bios update made using the device advertised and bought as a laptop as a laptop become fatal behaviour. Can anyone talk to Dell about it because any reputable company would apologise and fix? No. Cannot contact them because they bricked it for me just out of warranty. So no, I do NOT recommend Dell. Ever. Their support blows goats. I hate them. I'm far from alone in that.
• movpasd 3y ago
  While I appreciate the security implications for Apple of reversing Activation Lock when they can't verify that you are the current, legitimate owner of the hardware (given Find My hasn't been set up), there is something intensely frustrating about the idea of a perfectly functional piece of hardware becoming unusable because of a software lock. Perhaps Apple should consider making Find My mandatory? I can't imagine this is the only case where this has happened.
• justin_ 3y ago
  Activation Lock is a weird feature. Users love it when it helps prevent device theft. But really, at the end of the day, you're giving up control of the device to Apple. Apple has already stopped supporting activation of certain versions of iOS[0]. Also, just as a user can request locking down a phone at any time, Apple could technically lock down your device when they see fit. They're not going to do that, but the fact that it's possible is a bit freaky. Someday, far in the future, their activation servers will go down, and no unactivated Apple device will be usable. Already, it is not possible to set up a new device without an Internet connection. Hopefully the jailbreak community figures something out by then, or maybe Apple would release a tool... [0] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-no-longer-activating-iphones-on-ios-9.2113888/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-no-longer-activat...
  • philistine 3y ago
    Apple has stopped signing older version of iOS for devices that could upgrade to later versions. The case you linked to is an iPhone running iOS 9 when Apple will happily sign iOS 11 for that device. iOS 11 is that latest version of the software that will run on that device. Do we blame Google for not allowing Chromebooks to stick to an older version of their OS?
    • justin_ 3y ago
      This isn’t about signing the OS updates. This is about the device contacting Apple’s activation servers during initial setup. In the linked thread, the users have a “working” device with software already installed, but the activation fails with a cryptic “Activation Error” without any reference to the fact that they must update. Typically, Apple continues to allow activation on older OSes, as long as they were installed previously. I’ve intentionally kept some devices on older versions, and personally have never had a problem activating after a reset. But I suppose that’s only possible because Apple allowed it. EDIT: I was wrong about the "Activation Error" not mentioning a software upgrade. It does mention it. But my point about Apple controlling access to the software still stands. It's something weird that Apple did specifically for iOS 9 and the iPhone 6s. Naturally, who really cares about one random version combination? I don't in this particular case, but the fact that Apple can control it is weird to me. Even more concerning is that some users report that the device locked them out _even during normal use of the phone_: https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/acmytg/iphone_6s_plus_verizon_activation_error/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/acmytg/iphone_6s_pl...
• rubatuga 3y ago
  It was stolen and a security feature was turned on. I think the fact that you lost physical control of your own hardware is why your MacBook is bricked.
• mullingitover 3y ago
  > But when I opened it up, a stranger’s profile greeted me. Evidently we had swapped laptops going through security. So I raced back, and returned the stranger’s laptop, and explained the situation. A friend had this exact problem going through airport security. It ended up being a huge ordeal getting things settled. Before hearing his story I was against putting stickers on my laptops, I felt it ruined the clean aesthetic. However, after hearing that story I always add a sticker to my laptops just to be damn sure there are no mixups like this.
  • koromak 3y ago
    So far, security has always let me leave my laptop inside a thin sleeve, I just put a sticker on the sleeve and send it through.
• planb 3y ago
  Look, Apple haters: there’s much to criticize about this company, and I understand everyone who wants to be in full control of their devices (and all related encryption keys), but this story is just documenting the feature working as expected. If Apple would unlock the devices after validating a proof of purchase, the next HN headline would be about some unlock scam for used devices on eBay. And if you cannot foresee what would happen if people would have to manage the unlock keys themselves, then you probably should get out of your bubble. So maybe you can argue that this feature should not exist at all. Or be able to be deactivated permanently by burning a fuse in the device. But in that world there would be more people without their devices than in our current one.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
• perryizgr8 3y ago
  Don't be surprised to find out who owns the hardware when the time comes. All these "security" features are IMO excuses to remove more and more control from the user and bring it to Apple. If you fall for it, you have only yourself to blame. Next time, buy a machine that you truly own. This is the number one reason I will never buy anything from Apple, not even a simple air pod.
• reactordev 3y ago
  I read as far as “Or so I thought. About 30 minutes before my flight was boarding, I pulled out my laptop to do some last minute work. But when I opened it up, a stranger’s profile greeted me.” At this point, everything below that line is working as intended. Be glad you still have your identity and bank accounts whole. I know this sounds harsh but, your laptop and your data is just as personal and vital to you as your phone. When going through airport security, throw your ID and phone in the same basket as your laptop. If they make you separate them, throw your ID in the laptop basket. Better, put a sticker on your laptop. Stop keeping it pristine and uniform like everyone else’s macbook. Then you would easily know you picked up the wrong laptop. Next time buy a Lenovo.
• fomine3 3y ago
  I understand that it should be an option: don't track me by Find My network but also there should be an option to register as my device to guarantee that others can't register.
• steveharman 3y ago
  "Apple ID requires you to have a phone number associated with the account, and only allows one phone number per account." That's not right. Login to applied.apple.com / iCloud and add multiple phone numbers to your Apple ID for 2FA purposes.
  • angulardragon03 3y ago
    Correct. You can even add the same phone number to multiple iCloud accounts.
• bella_sm 3y ago
  Sue them?
• supermatt 3y ago
  Less than a year old device and it is no longing functional. That would be covered by consumer rights in Europe. I would start a small claim against the apple store if i was in that position.
  • wrboyce 3y ago
    You expect theft to be covered by warranty? How about if I get Ransomware, can I sue my laptop manufacturer?
    • crote 3y ago
      This isn't theft. The legitimate owner possesses the device, but it just doesn't work anymore. That's pretty much textbook definition of "broken", and considering it is happening solely because of misbehavior of Apple's software it should be covered under warranty. If you try to report it as "theft" to the police or your insurance, they are rightfully going to laugh at you. Compare it to a friend borrowing your car. Turns out there is a bug where if you change radio stations 30 times before turning on the ignition, the car permanently destroys its ability to turn on. Your friend accidentally triggers this. Would you consider that "theft" too, or should the manufacturer fix it under warranty?
      • paulmd 3y ago
        > Compare it to a friend borrowing your car. Turns out there is a bug where if you change radio stations 30 times before turning on the ignition, the car permanently destroys its ability to turn on. This explicitly exists in most PCs to protect the Secure Enclave. If you push the wrong sequence of buttons in the bios or cause too many failures, you can definitely wipe secure boot, which is on by default now, and in a default windows install (with bitlocker) this will result in total data loss, by design, for exactly the same goals and reasons as when apple does it. Sony’s android phones will even do this to destroy the camera firmware if you unlock the boot loader. Can’t have some competitor get a look at your super secret debayering algorithm!
• 5pales 3y ago
  Or, you know, stop buying apple products.
• WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
  If I have to go somewhere via an international airport, and that somewhere is outside Schengen zone, I’m not taking any laptop with me that I would mind parting with. Which is why I have a small stack of old thinkpads and whatnot. The risks range from misplacement to customs officers being corrupt and petty, or airport security being draconian and wanting to poke around. Thankfully, VPNs like Tailscale or Zerotier exist, and I can leave the dearer pieces of tech at home and get into them when I need them.
• letier 3y ago
  I managed to remove activation lock by proving that I was the original owner (invoice) of the MacBook. Was that no option?
• trumbitta2 3y ago
  I just take it for granted that using any Apple device means activating Find My for it and with the same iCloud account. And my iCloud account is sacred just like my password manager's master password. Or the keys to my house, or car.
• jbm 3y ago
  A side note, the author (Paul) is one of the nicest people I knew in Tokyo. Sorry about your laptop buddy.
• Gabrys1 3y ago
  Hmmm, can you return this product as faulty using your warranty?
• tobiasbischoff 3y ago
  With all the locks, DRM and hostile Software in place - an Apple device is never yours really. You are always on the mercy of corporate apple.
• bakugo 3y ago
  The best part about stories like this is that I just know the person is going to go out and buy another one, even though they are now fully aware that they don't own any Apple device they "buy" and are actually just renting it from Apple until they decide not to allow you to use it anymore, instead of just buying a real personal computer.
• kkapelon 3y ago
  Pro tip: when you put your laptop on the tray also put some other personal belongings in the same tray (but not ON the laptop) such as shoes, belt, watch etc. This way it would be more difficult for other people to get confused when they pick their own stuff Second tip: Add some stickers to personalize your laptop
• traceroute66 3y ago
  I dunno, something just doesn't smell right about this guy's story. For example a search of his blog post for the words "recovery key" yields zero results. You don't need to setup Find My. But you must use at least one of the many options that Apple provides you to regain access.
• vinay_ys 3y ago
  This is indeed a cautionary tale. But soon enough, this taking out electronics at airports will be a thing of the past as more and more airports deploy luggage scanners like the ones at Dubai airport where you don't have to take anything out of the bag. In general, here's my operational security to prevent scenarios like this: 1. All my luggage has uniquely identifiable tags and stickers on them. This includes my laptop, mobile phone, chargers and cables. This largely avoids myself or someone else mistakenly picking up wrong things. When I'm asked to take out electronics at airport security, I use 4 trays in sequence – carry-on luggage, all my electronics in the tray, and my backpack, my shoes. This way, my electronics tray is sandwiched between my luggages. I also put my laptop in a thin cushion sleeve and I have not been asked to remove the sleeve. I also put all my smaller electronics and cables in a clear plastic zip bag and put it in the tray. Then, I try to cross the human x-ray at the same time as my luggage (most airports do a good job of ensuring this if you stay in the lane next to the luggage line). When I pickup my luggage I'm super focused to make sure I verify I got back my stuff correctly. 2. My corporate MacBook and iPhone does not allow iCloud account on it. Hence, there is no Find My. But it is tied to corp MDM. If anyone were to find it and try to wipe and install, the MDM will force a profile on it. When I report my laptop is lost, they will put it in lost mode (via MDM) and also remote wipe it. Also, they have loss/theft insurance to cover the cost of the laptop. 3. On my personal MacBook and iPhone, I have had firmware lock (on Intel ones), and always had FileVault (for M1/M2 silicon, this is same as firmware lock) on with recovery key (not iCloud recovery). Recently I have turned on lockdown mode as well. I do have an apple account for Activation Lock, App Store and TV. And I have advanced data protection mode on for this iCloud account and I have disabled iCloud Web. I have recovery key and recovery contact for this iCloud account. I don't want my data on iCloud servers without end to end encryption nor do I want Apple to be able to unlock/wipe my devices without a cryptographic consent from another iDevice I possess. With File Vault on, nobody else who gets my laptop can unlock it or wipe it or reinstall it. On some of my devices, location service is off, so Find My can't show the location but it can still activate lost mode or remote wipe the device. 4. I have both physical sim which is locked and eSIM on my iPhone. And my iPhone is locked with a password. I disable Face ID while traveling. 5. Similarly, I have advanced data protection on my Google accounts. 6. I use physical Yubikeys with pin locks for 2FA.
• anArbitraryOne 3y ago
  I think the fundamental problem here was choosing to use an apple product. I loathe the software on my M1, and there is nothing I can do about it besides hope that Asahi adds support for everything
• ploum 3y ago
  Those problems are unavoidable in a monoculture. Worst, we are trying to adress them by putting more power on the monopoly in charge.
• voidee 3y ago
  This story will certainly start a trend of people covering MacBook lids with the most unique sticker combination possible.
  • koromak 3y ago
    Like its 2015
• drodgers 3y ago
  If you bought the laptop with a credit card, you should try doing a charge-back. Airport story aside, the laptop is now bricked at Apple's discretion, so you should just get your money back from them to cover a new one. CC companies are usually pretty sympathetic in cases like these.
• talkingtab 3y ago
  Just take Apple to small claims court. Every single person who runs into a Stupid Apple Problem like this should immediately file in small claims court. Apple can continue this kind of policy because they have no incentive to fix it. Sometimes if someone makes a stink (on HN or other) in an act of Deus Ex Apple, they will descend from the cloud and fix it. Maybe. But if 20 or 200 people go to small claims court they will have to pay legal fees to represent themself. They may decide fixing the problem is cheaper that lawyers fees It is relatively easy to go so small claims court. 1. SearchEngine your state and small claims. - for example "New Hampshire Small Claims" => https://www.courts.nh.gov/our-courts/circuit-court/district-division/small-claims https://www.courts.nh.gov/our-courts/circuit-court/district-... 2. Follow the directions. 3. Get your ducks/facts in a row. Collect receipts, emails, phone notes. Get the names of people you talk to. 4. Get the procedure in a row. Much of court is about procedure. Forget to notify the other party? You are dead in the water. Miss a deadline, don't follow rule 33.b.7A? you lose. But you just have to be diligent. And if you make a mistake ask the judge if you can fix it. 4. Serve Apple. 5. Show up at Court, bring your documentation, find out what else you need to bring. 6. Be a fair and reasonable person. Some states like New Hampshire allow you to appeal small claims decisions to the state Supreme Court. Do not accept easy failure. Many judges and lawyers look down on commoners and find them annoying. Don't be annoying and don't accept arbitrary rulings by a judge. In New Hampshire a coffee shop owner took Instagram to court, lost the case and appealed to the NH Supreme Court who reversed the decision. Do not be a victim, but do not expect to win. Do expect to make it clear to Apple that you will contest the "oh this is policy" or "oh we can't do this" kind of nonsense. And do submit your experience to HN.
  • FireBeyond 3y ago
    > 6. Be a fair and reasonable person. Oof. Step-daughter was involved in a car accident. Our insurance denied liability, his insurance said to involve small claims. (This is in Washington state.) What was described in the Small Claims paperwork as "optional arbitration available" was actually mandated by the court, as in "We won't hear you unless you go through this". I ended up filing a complaint about the arbitrator. Was a citation issued? "Yes, to my step-daughter, that we are contesting, because it says she ran a red light, based on the evidence of the other person in the collision alone, who is not exactly an unbiased witness". "That's irrelevant to this proceeding. I just asked if a citation was issued." This guy had his car towed to a shop who charged him storage fees. When my insurance informed him, whether he agreed or not, that they were not paying the bill, he kept the car in the shop for another six weeks accruing a $200/day bill because the shop said "Oh, it'll all be fine, they'll pay eventually". Couldn't understand why I was not going to accept any responsibility for that decision, apropos of anything else. Neither could the arbitrator. Arbitrator: "Well, you're going to have to pay for it somehow - your rates will go up because it's an at-fault collision". "No, my insurer is happy with considering this not at-fault based on everything." "Well, you were at fault, a citation was issued!" "I thought the details of the citation were irrelevant to this?" "..." And then a slight tactical error on my part, "What if the court awards against you?" "Then our insurance will pay, based on a court judgment being entered." Arbitrator (being absolutely neutral and impartial /s) "Well, in that case, I simply cannot understand why you would not - as a human being (her emphasis) - agree to give him everything he is asking for in this claim. I don't understand that." Really, you don't understand why I might have an objection to paying $10,000 (his claim) for damage to a $1,400 car that may have been his fault, that he then incurred a nearly $7,000 storage bill for due to him just assuming "it'll all be figured out, don't worry". Yeah, I had a big problem with that. Oh, and when we did finally figure something out, the arbitrator, who had mentioned she was a lawyer in family practice, wrote out an agreement that said that "FireBeyond and [insurer] agree to do this", and "if FireBeyond or [insurer] do not, it is agreed that they will be in default"... "I'm not an attorney, but pretty certain I don't have authority to enter into an agreement binding my insurer to anything at all..." "Sigh. Fine, I suppose not", and makes a big dramatic deal about rewriting it to remove that.
• koromak 3y ago
  Had no idea Find My did this. I always leave it off for privacy reasons, but I'm realizing thats probably not worth it.
• tech_ken 3y ago
  The iCloud thing is weird, is it possible that the email was automatically created for you using your username? I believe that Apple used to do that or something similar, regardless of which email the AppleID actually used. Alternatively, it seems like whoever had your laptop had your full name, so maybe they factory reset your laptop and then created a new AppleID under that name. Unclear why they would go to all this trouble to then brick it and send it back to you, especially when they already owned a comparable one which you had returned to them. Do you recall enough to confirm whether the AppleID on the other laptop matched the name of the person who emailed you? Or does it match the one you're currently seeing? Overall this truly sucks, sorry you had to go through it. However I'm not sure if "Not setting up Find My" is what bricked your laptop. Rather it sounds like you didn't utilize Find My, and then an adversary was able to use it to brick your laptop. It's frustrating that Apple isn't making an exception to help unblock you here, but I can also understand how they might have a pretty strict anti-theft policy that you're falling just outside of.
  • jiveturkey 3y ago
    yeah, i would be more suspicious that he accepted a default setting provided at OOBE, and created a new icloud account, than some bug in the Activation Lock system. i haven't gone through the OOBE flow recently but it's super easy to overlook something like this. he does question whether this might have happened: > That the iCloud address starts with a “p”, my first initial, is haunting me. Could it be that I somehow created an iCloud address when first setting up the MacBook? I certainly don’t remember doing this though. Or another scenario: > If I hadn’t set up Find My for the MacBook, they should have been able to wipe it themselves. When they set it up for themselves, they could have set up Find My, and now the Activation Lock would be enabled. Very, very plausible. So in either of these cases, the system seems to be working as designed and they just got caught up in an edge case. The criticism of Find My seems appropriate ... the link to activation lock is definitely not well known. Just as macOS gives you an annoying notification about "take a tour" after a little while using it on a new install, it should give you an annoying notification that without Activation Lock someone with physical possession can make it theirs.
• notnmeyer 3y ago
  to avoid this scenario i write my name in sharpie on all of my macbooks
• faeriechangling 3y ago
  Availability is a key part of security. When Apple can trivially authenticate that this man is the legitimate owner of the device, given he: 1: Bought it 2: Possesses it I’m not sure how “But it’s not him linked with the Apple ID” is a legitimate reason not to assume him the owner pending any evidence to the contrary. If the man had his laptop stolen by somebody at the post office, who set it up with their own Apple ID, does Apple just shrug its shoulders and go “lol how is this our problem buy another Mac XD”. Going through an onboarding process does not actually prove ownership, at all. I don’t believe what Apple is doing is actively illegal but it sure smacks of bureaucratic ineptitude.
• someonehere 3y ago
  Something doesn’t sound right. I’ve had the same phone number of mine connected to different Apple IDs over the years. Based on different places that I’ve worked I’ve been able to tie my phone number to different Apple IDs with different email addresses. The other thing that the author should’ve done is physically, walked into an Apple Store and asked them to remove the lock. I’ve had this removed a couple of times for clients of mine with no issue. You just have to show a receipt and someone at the store will go in the back and come out in 2030 minutes later at the machine unlocked. This makes no sense this article
• kkfx 3y ago
  To my eyes: you send a formal letter to Apple, describing the issue, with proof of purchasing and advise them if they do not unlock your device, regularly purchase they have to respond to a formal aggravated theft complaint because not only the device it's yours but also you data (a copy of them, maybe) it's on it and their tool prevent you to access them. I do not know the Japanese law but here in EU such complaint PLUS a copy with some chatty journals will make the deal VERY quickly. Sometimes peoples tend to avoid biting when they should.