149 ms·

Adobe to acquire Figma for $20B

• NicholasN 4y ago
  243 times their revenue? From what I can research: Figma took $332M in funding and has just $82M revenue for 2022. Adobe must be betting on Figma's 60% YOY growth and probably see them as existential threat.
  • vineyardmike 4y ago
    It’s probably less the revenue they’d gain and more the revenue they’d lose to figma. Doesn’t matter what figma makes if the customers they’re losing are worth 20B in the long run. This is certainly a defensive position.
  • askafriend 4y ago
    It's 50x revenue. Figma will make >$400m in 2022.
    • NicholasN 4y ago
      You are right, thanks for pointing that out. I pulled up the wrong info. Indeed, $400M for 2022-impressive.
    • airstrike 4y ago
      50x ARR which is technically different from 50x revenue
• mirzap 4y ago
  This is really sad :( There are 2 tech companies that I really hate. Whatever they touch they ruin - Oracle and Adobe. On the other hand, there's now a lot of room for other startups to go Figma-way and try to capture market.
  • npteljes 4y ago
    I don't see how Oracle ruined Java or MySQL for example.
    • jerrygoyal 4y ago
      use of Java has declined over the years. that's a sign.
      • npteljes 4y ago
        Stop this nonsense. Look at SO's 2022 survey, Java is the third worldwide most used programming language that can be used on the backend. This is after 12 years under Oracle's ownership. https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022 https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022
        • jerrygoyal 4y ago
          did u compare past years results? Java usage (SO survey): 2022 - 33.27% 2021 - 35.35% 2020 - 40.2% 2019 - 41.1%
          • npteljes 4y ago
            Looks like Python, and partially JavaScript, are eating Java's lunch. I knew that JS is popular, but I have not expected Python. Do you think it's Oracle's mismanagement that led to this?
• pym4n 4y ago
  I also hate Adobe with all my heart! Had the displeasure to work there for a few months and the company is super lame. They don't build anything at this point and just sell overpriced subscriptions. I basically ran from there... not for me.
• nkotov 4y ago
  Good acquisition for Adobe, terrible for the end users.
• flyingkickass 4y ago
  And here I was thinking of switching to figma after getting frustrated with adobe, sigh...
• yabqk 4y ago
• Bishonen88 4y ago
  I wonder how long before Figma and XD become one product then?
• tolulade_ato 4y ago
• crecker 4y ago
  Ahh, Adobe.. they have earnings for billions and billions and they can not improve their software suites on performance..
  • JKCalhoun 4y ago
    Yeah, kind of wonder what would have happened had Adobe instead pulled a pair of engineers aside and said, "Hey, we want you two to create a Figma rival. You'll have no directives from up above, have all the freedom to write the app how you want. You can work where you want, when you want ... if you need more specific expertise on the team you can take who you like. The first version you roll out doesn't have to have Figma parity, just has to be something you're proud of. We'll put it out as beta ... it can stay beta for as long as you feel it needs to be. We're hoping you can get us to have a Figma-like presence, maybe Figma-parity within three years or so?" I suspect Adobe are too behemoth these days. A scrappy start-up/skunk-works within Adobe might have been able to pull off some nice code and for a lot less than $20B.
    • ssrubin 4y ago
      My understanding, pieced together from conversations over the years with Adobe employees, is that they do try to do this, and they don’t have success with it. I have no idea if they’ve done something like this with a Figma-like goal, though.
    • vitaflo 4y ago
      They basically did exactly this with XD and it started with some good ideas and then basically just fizzled out.
    • someonesthere 4y ago
      That money's not for the code...
  • tmpz22 4y ago
    Why improve your software when Apple can just release better hardware? \s
• kgbcia 4y ago
  good purchase.
  • throw_m239339 4y ago
    Good for Figma founders, they'll make a lot of money, bad for Figma users and design authoring tool in general suffering from the lack of competition in the space for the last 25 years. I've seen what happened to Macromedia products after Adobe bought them.
    • leetrout 4y ago
      Exactly
    • 542458 4y ago
      Yeah, over the last five years illustrator has added no useful new features (at least for my use cases) and XD has wandered around with no clear direction. Meanwhile Figma has been a rocketship of features that massively improve workflows. I’m worried they’ll sink into the Adobe pit of complacent mediocrity if they’re bought out.
      • te_chris 4y ago
        I bet the Adobe PMs are salivating at the thought of 'improving' figma.
        • tomaskafka 4y ago
          They do, that's what the press release said: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32851038 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32851038
      • noizz 4y ago
        As much as I LOVE to shit on Adobe (they leaked my CC info) they surprised me recently with one new feature I've been begging for years - bullet points and ordered lists in text fields. Ever since Illustrator became an alternative to InDesign for smaller print jobs, it's been my core missing feature. Although, in the grand scheme of things, Illustrator has been really left behind and apps like InDesign or XD have seen next to zero updates in years.
• rchaud 4y ago
  End of the line for Adobe XD if this happens? I like Figma a lot, but I'm glad I have an old copy of Sketch to fall back on. Adobe and its forever subscription model will eventually get applied to Figma.
  • cj 4y ago
    > Adobe and its forever subscription model will eventually get applied to Figma. Figma is already a “forever subscription”. It’s a SaaS subscription.
    • rchaud 4y ago
      I meant the free tier.
• helsinkiandrew 4y ago
  https://archive.ph/EawX9 https://archive.ph/EawX9
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• doomlaser 4y ago
  Adobe consolidates. Where is the Blender equivalent for Photoshop? I don't think GIMP is the answer, but it seems like Photoshop is ripe for an open source competitor in the category. I just don't know of any realistic candidates.
  • Jorengarenar 4y ago
    For image manipulation is, nonen omen, GIMP. For drawing I would say Krita.
  • i386 4y ago
    This is an irrelevant comment.
    • greymalik 4y ago
      So is this.
      • i386 4y ago
        The original comment is the kind of comment that just derails actual conversation about the topic. Try to stay on topic.
  • elisvent 4y ago
    Use Keynote with a custom canvas size. You can do literally anything in Keynote. https://vimeo.com/100377108 https://vimeo.com/100377108 To repost their comment: “ In my work, there's constant discussion about which is the best and hottest new design tool to use. I’ve tried many of them, but in the end I still keep coming back to Keynote. It’s easy to learn and use, swapping assets is a breeze (using media placeholder), and most complex animations can be tested with Magic Move (the secret sauce to it all). Producing animations can span a range of fidelities; I can produce all the assets in Keynote, or I can copy out of Illustrator or drag and drop from Sketch (how seamless this works puts a smile on my face every time). As an interaction or visual designer, if you’re not using Keynote to test and bring your work to life, then I think you should start now! At least I hope this little experiment inspires you to try.”
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• addicted 4y ago
  This is a blatant effort at maintaining a monopoly.
  • 542458 4y ago
    Yeah, as a Figma and Adobe consumer this feels like an intentional effort to limit my choice and enable Adobe creative cloud to continue to be more-or-less the only realistic option for design work. I’m perennially frustrated that I live in an era with nearly-dead antitrust.
  • heyyeah 4y ago
    Adobe will be facing an existential crisis trying to maintain this monopoly vs AI generated content, AI augmented content generation tools and cheap image and layout apps.
    • smilespray 4y ago
      Adobe should have died a decade ago.
    • knicholes 4y ago
      Adobe has an excellent team of machine learning experts who are very well aware of what's going on. I attend their ML lecture series regularly and see speakers from FB, Google, OpenAI, universities, etc, especially on recent advances in large language models and their application to zero-shot learning and text to image generation.
      • polk 4y ago
        Irrelevant, if that doesn't lead to product innovation. Historically, it hasn't.
• uptown 4y ago
  Adobe's statement: https://www.adobe.com/about-adobe/intent-to-acquire-20220915.html https://www.adobe.com/about-adobe/intent-to-acquire-20220915...
  • replygirl 4y ago
    > By bringing powerful capabilities from Adobe’s imaging, photography, illustration, video, 3D and font technologies into the Figma platform, we can benefit all customers involved in the product design process, from designers to product managers to developers. Figma’s community will ultimately have a continuous user experience across ideation, screen layout, interaction design and content editing, allowing product designers and their stakeholders to operate at a whole new level. smart objects and cloud libraries, just kill me now
• yuchi 4y ago
  If true, congratulations for Figma founders, and a bad day for designers that were looking for a way to escape from Adobe. I don’t think that in the long term this will give Figma as an ecosystem any benefit — unless Adobe will keep it separate from the main Creative Cloud. This reminds me of the Trello acquisition. As a loyal Figma user I’m pretty sceptical of the future. Hope to be wrong. UPDATE: Looks like it is indeed true… https://news.adobe.com/news/news-details/2022/Adobe-to-Acquire-Figma/default.aspx https://news.adobe.com/news/news-details/2022/Adobe-to-Acqui...
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • Bilal_io 4y ago
    Big win for the Figma team. Big loss for consumers who have benefitted from the competitive market. I really hope this incentives Krita, Ink, Gimp or other OSS to focus more on UI design features. I think there is a value for Adobe to add Figma to CC, Photoshop can fully focus on photo manipulation while Figma (perhaps merged with XD?) will be target UI designers.
    • Tijdreiziger 4y ago
      > I really hope this incentives Krita, Ink, Gimp or other OSS to focus more on UI design features. A comment in another thread mentioned Penpot https://penpot.app/ https://penpot.app/
      • Bilal_io 4y ago
        Yeah I just saw a new post for the tool. It's currently #1 Never heard of it before, but I'll explore it.
  • JKCalhoun 4y ago
    As others will no doubt call out, Affinity have been my main-stay graphics apps for some years now. Affinity Design, Photo, Publisher.... I refuse to pay a monthly fee for something I use on a scattershot basis.
• pembrook 4y ago
  I’d put the odds at about 95% that Adobe will ruin Figma with bloat, 14 different “Creative Cloud” background processes, and hostile pricing models within 5 years. This is huge news for Sketch. However, to be honest, this is the type of acquisition that should be blocked IMO. Adobe is literally acquiring a direct competitor here. To me the consumer harm is pretty clear. Instead of a more competent org (Figma) growing further to disrupt more of Adobe’s business, we’re going to be stuck with Adobe forever. Great outcome for the founders and investors in Figma, terrible outcome for consumers.
  • baggiponte 4y ago
    Totally agree I don’t get why antitrust gave the okay to this…
    • Someone 4y ago
      Did they? Typically, the intent to merge comes before any anti-trust investigation.
    • nicoburns 4y ago
      Probably because anti-trust enforcement only seems to get involved when two already huge companies are involved.
      • pavlov 4y ago
        Nah, they just have different rules for different huge tech companies. FTC is blocking Meta’s acquisition of Within, the maker of a VR fitness app - an extremely niche product. Meanwhile Microsoft and Adobe seem confident that they can close on deals to buy Activision and Figma.
    • kylemh 4y ago
      can antitrust prevent public companies from acquiring private companies?
      • 4y ago
• lwn 4y ago
  Ugh, I'm still sad about what happened to Macromedia Fireworks after Adobe takeover. Have been boycotting their products ever since.
  • afhammad 4y ago
    Same here, best design software i’ve ever used, especially for web stuff. Sketch came close, although I haven’t used it in a while.
    • Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
      Sketch actually surpassed Fireworks in every aspect. After many many years with Fireworks, I was astonished by Sketch how they fixed every little thing that bothered me in Fireworks, and did it just right.
• saos 4y ago
  Fair enough. Preferred to stay clear of Adobe and their trash subscription model so naturally I feel some resentment. Was enjoying the competition and thought Figma was well ahead of Adobe to be honest. I hope the deal fall through NGL
  • blooalien 4y ago
    > "Was enjoying the competition and thought Figma was well ahead of Adobe to be honest." They were… That's why Adobe bought 'em.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• auscompgeek 4y ago
  From Adobe's end: https://news.adobe.com/news/news-details/2022/Adobe-to-Acquire-Figma/default.aspx https://news.adobe.com/news/news-details/2022/Adobe-to-Acqui...
  • gardaani 4y ago
    The founders of Figma must be very happy: "Adobe announced it has entered into a definitive merger agreement to acquire Figma, a leading web-first collaborative design platform, for approximately $20 billion in cash and stock."
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
• ilmiont 4y ago
  Well that’s the end of Figma then. It was fantastic while it lasted.
  • steve_adams_86 4y ago
    Although it’s still great software I’m stopping usage today because a) I refuse to support adobe and b) I’m confident the software will progressively get much worse, so any investment today is a waste of time I should spend finding and learning something else. Is there a blender of tools like this?
    • notaboredguy 4y ago
      Inkscape, penpot and/or maybe gimp afaik.
      • iddan 4y ago
        Inkscape is unusable sorry. It can’t support any of my workflows. The only real alternative for Adobe at the time being is Affinity
      • asutekku 4y ago
        None of these solve the same problems and they have the usual problems of free software. Grandious ideas but godawful UX and no interest to fix them.
      • kristopolous 4y ago
        Common things are so obtusely buried in these applications. It's extraordinary the decisions they make. Maybe there should be a telematics tool for gtk that tracks when a user is clicking around looking for something and treats it like a bug report after a program crash. Some Non-Obtrusive (very important) dialog says something like "looking for something? Tell us what and where you're expecting it so we can add it". There's no reason at all things can't be in 2 or 3 places instead of like View / Interface Options / General / Advanced / ... or wherever the hell someone decided to place it.
    • 4y ago
• laundermaf 4y ago
  No antitrust case yet?
  • blue_light_man 4y ago
    Obviously not.
  • Bilal_io 4y ago
    Too big to be regulated I guess.
• edotrajan 4y ago
  WOW
• guggleet 4y ago
  Collaboration is an interesting choice of words
• est 4y ago
  Will get bloated and overpriced in no time.
• kkirsche 4y ago
  That’s too bad. Good for the individuals and groups benefiting from it, I am happy for you, but I expect Adobe will ruin this product for users. Especially since this is an anti-competitive acquisition.
• throwoutway 4y ago
  Announced officially https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32850591 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32850591
• nicoburns 4y ago
  Oh hell no. Adobe is where software goes to die. Which is big shame because Figma has been great, and had serious potential to turn into the first WYSIWYG tool that would actually generate code you'd want to use. But Macromedia software was also great, and now it's mostly non-existent. I'd love for this to turn out different, but I have very low expectations.
  • egeozcan 4y ago
    > Adobe is where software goes to die. After EA acquiring Westwood, Macromedia is the second biggest let-down of a sale in the software industry in my book. Perhaps Skype comes close.
    • qwerty456127 4y ago
      Are there any examples when an acquisition actually led to improved value for the users rather than ruined or straight killed the product?
      • madeofpalk 4y ago
        Github. Apple buying Workflow to build it into the OS as Shortcuts.
      • dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
        Why should they? Acquisition today means: you have managed to become a threat to us, so we buy you so that this threat disappears. I just hope Adobe doesn't buy Affinity.
        • esskay 4y ago
          Buying Afilinity would 100% lead to antitrust.
      • infinityplus1 4y ago
        Github gained actions, sponsors etc. and keeps getting more new features. Whatsapp got E2E chats and group video calls and handles communications for a huge amount of people.
• pelagic_sky 4y ago
  As a long time Figma champion, this breaks my heart. Every time I am forced to go back to an Adobe product I find it worse off than I left it. I worry that I will no longer see rapid updates and features that benefit me as a user and not the grater "cloud ecosystem".
  • FractalHQ 4y ago
    Same here. This is going to do tangible damage to my daily life as someone who opens Figma daily. I also spend time hunting rogue Adobe spyware processes in activity monitor daily. Adobe destroys everything they touch and Figma was finally innovating despite them. I hope we get real anti trust laws someday.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • shabbatt 4y ago
      but are you willing to walk away from your current job where your employer won't share your sentiments? Are they going to switch to a Figma alternative because of ideology and emotions tied to the change in ownership? Isn't it more likely that the product will work as is and businesses won't face any direct interruption because owner changed? I think Adobe made a smart decision, businesses are locked in and unlikely to switch once something is deeply integrated to their application design workflows. "Corner the market, and raise the price." In this case, outsource the former and in-house the latter.
      • FractalHQ 4y ago
        I’m a freelancer so I have the luxury of choice here, but I agree there is likely not much that will change until Adobe cripples Figma enough for an alternative to surpass it significantly.
• ido 4y ago
  Oh no...Well, I guess it was good while it lasted!
• cornedor 4y ago
  Please, Adobe, please don't add Figma to Creative Cloud. It would be great to keep using it, I'm not going to change my file system to case-insensitive.
  • Bilal_io 4y ago
    Figma has a free tier, which doesn't exist under CC. On the other hand, Figma costs at least $12/$45/$75 per editor per month depending on the level, and they don't charge users without editing rights. Those prices are not far off CC plans, $20 for Photoshop, $55 for the full suite of apps. If they keep offering the free tier, I am sure they can include a standalone plan for Figma around $20, and add it to the Suite without increasing the price, and they won't lose customers except from Adobe hate, which I totally stand behind because I prefer having a competitive market.
• nakedgremlin 4y ago
  Not sure how I feel about this. Figma is great and all their feature releases have been impressive, but I feel it was due to competition and worry about similar products coming in from big corporations (like Adobe XD). I feel this competition really push Figma hard. Now being part of the same owner, just makes it feel like any aggressive progress will just stall out.
• thinkingkong 4y ago
  Adobe and Figma says that Figma will remain autonomous. I think if this acquisition is treated the same way as the MS / Github model then things will be fine. Im a little surprised at the timing. This deal must have been in the works for quite awhile.
• kbos87 4y ago
  If I had to pick a single product that I thought could upend an entrenched competitor, this was it. Congrats to everyone who benefitted, but it's a bit of a letdown to see them go this route and give up the opportunity to build a lasting company.
• nayroclade 4y ago
  Many years ago, when Adobe bought Macromedia, they acquired a tool called Fireworks[1]. This was a combined bitmap and vector editor that was incredibly well-optimised for user-interface and web design, at a time when most designers were paying exorbitant license fees to do such work painfully and slowly in Photoshop and Illustrator. Fireworks was cheap, powerful, and hugely ahead of its time. Many of the features and flows people love in Figma and Sketch were pioneered years earlier in Fireworks. After the acquisition, Adobe starved Fireworks of resources and marketing. They broke things, left major bugs and performance regressions unfixed, and eventually discontinued it altogether. I'd argue this wasn't simply negligence, but a calculated decision to kill an innovative product because it threatened the profits of their cash cows. As much as I hope otherwise, I believe the acquisition of Figma will go the same way. Once it's under the Adobe umbrella, the simple mathematics of profits from Photoshop and Illustrator vs. those from Figma will result in the latter being starved, stripped of functionality, and eventually left broken. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Fireworks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Fireworks
  • pembrook 4y ago
    They literally did the same thing with dreamweaver as well. And now dreamweaver is a fast growing business in the form of Webflow. It’s the same story over and over again. Adobe acquires and then stifles innovation. 10 years later we realize what we were missing out on when a challenger eventually gets big enough—-until Adobe kills that company too. I’d bet a nice chunk of money that Webflow is next.
    • rchaud 4y ago
      I don't think so. Webflow is all marketing and PR IMO. The issue with Webflow is that GUI-based web design that exports static HTML files doesn't fit with how most large websites are coded and deployed. It would be one thing if Webflow CMS and Ecommerce was gaining market share vs Squarespace and Wix, but I don't know if that's really happening. When I go on Twitter, I mostly see PR-type posts about Webflow. Lots of "Webflow experts" but few real companies that are willing to build large sites with it.
• lioeters 4y ago
  I don't understand how this acquisition is not anti-competitive behavior. It was such a joy to see Figma's growth and technical innovation, and now it will just get eaten by the established power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Inc.#Anti-competitive_practices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Inc.#Anti-competitive_pr...
  • nicoburns 4y ago
    It is. Unfortunately our laws against anti-competitive behaviours are very weak.
    • oyeanuj 4y ago
      thankfully, there is also Europe!
      • nicoburns 4y ago
        Unfortunately I am European! IMO our anti-competition laws are weak even here.
  • javajosh 4y ago
    I don't think "the government" does anything unless someone complains. In this case, the process is to send a letter requesting a "Business Review" [1]. It's probably a "fill out this simple 30 page form, wait 2.5 years (max!) and then have your review request politely declined" situation, but I suppose it's foolish to complain before trying. It feels like one of those processes that costs lawyer money that another business would usually pay for; however it's not clear what business would pay for this - maybe a heavy user of Figma? But then even if you 'win' and stop the sale, doesn't that alienate you from the founders? 1 - https://www.justice.gov/atr/business-reviews https://www.justice.gov/atr/business-reviews
    • lvzw 4y ago
      This is not correct. There will almost certainly be a second request issued by the FTC or DOJ in this matter, and my guess is that it will almost certainly get challenged by one of those agencies. [1] In building their case, the agencies will reach out to users and competitors of the companies. Adobe and Figma know that this merger will certainly be contentious on antitrust issues, and I bet there is a large breakup fee that Adobe would have to pay for Figma if the merger was blocked for this reason. [1]: https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers/premerger-notification-merger-review-process https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...
• city17 4y ago
  Figma's blog post title [0] being 'A collaboration with Adobe', when it's really an acquisition seems like a warning sign. [0] https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/ https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/
  • CharlesW 4y ago
    Agreed, that is very strange positioning. Clearly they understood how Figma users would take this news, but trying to obfuscate or spin it is a mistake.
• pavlov 4y ago
  Adobe’s PR includes the price: “…approximately $20 billion in cash and stock” Apparently it’s roughly half in cash according to other news reports. Adobe stock is down 8% premarket, so seems like the market thinks they overpaid. (Personally I disagree — this is a good acquisition for Adobe)
  • pessimizer 4y ago
    The market is caught up in the long-term value of Figma, but it's worth it to Adobe even if they bought it to run it into the ground.
• colmanhumphrey 4y ago
  Can’t begrudge anyone involved, but this feels kind of lame. I thought Figma really could compete long term with Adobe.
  • criswell 4y ago
    This is why I'm so bummed by it.
• margarina72 4y ago
  bad news of the day.
• calvinmorrison 4y ago
  downside: Adobe acquired yet another piece of software, one that even competes with Photoshop XD. upside: I now can roll out Figma anywhere we have adobe CC licenses without a rigamarole from management
• Tomte 4y ago
  A win-win situation: Figma founders get money. Figma competitors get a huge developed market to sell to when Adobe inevitably only sells Figma as part of their hellish subscription model. Okay, Figma users lose. But that was a given.
• garyclarke27 4y ago
  It’s a shame that the competition authorities don’t seem to have any interest in these type of acquisitions which destroys competition and harms consumers. Same thing happened with Architecture software eg when Autocad bought Revit - end result is extortionately priced software that many architects cannot afford because they are paid so poorly. Same will happen for graphic designers.
  • myth_drannon 4y ago
    The company is Autodesk, the product is Autocad.
    • mynameisvlad 4y ago
      Is this level of pedantry needed? Even without the clarification, everyone knew what the parent comment meant.
  • vouaobrasil 4y ago
    I actually think we need new antitrust laws that are a bit more proactive when it comes to super-massive companies like Adobe. Such companies have learned to be much more cunning when it comes to get around existing laws, and plus they have much more money than ever.
    • javajosh 4y ago
      >we need new antitrust laws that are a bit more proactive Bingo! Adobe has a de facto monopoly on vector and bitmap editing software tools, and it would make total sense for this acquisition to be stopped by the government on that basis. "The government" in this case would be the DoJ's antitrust division headed by Jonathan Kanter [1]. Looks like the process is to send a letter requesting a "Business Review" [2]. It's probably a "fill out this simple 30 page form, wait 2.5 years (max!) and then have your review request politely declined" situation, but I suppose it's foolish to complain before trying. 1 - https://www.justice.gov/atr https://www.justice.gov/atr 2 - https://www.justice.gov/atr/business-reviews https://www.justice.gov/atr/business-reviews
• raoultwasright 4y ago
• shafyy 4y ago
  > Adobe is deeply committed to keeping Figma operating autonomously and I will continue to serve as CEO, reporting to David Wadhwani.[0] "autonomously". There, I fixed it for you :-) More seriously, I do hope that this will become an exception to the rule, but I'm not getting my hopes up. 0: https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/ https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/
• baggiponte 4y ago
  That’s so uncompetitive
• drikerf 4y ago
  (types www.sketch.com into browser)
• shishy 4y ago
  Gah, I love Figma. Heres to hoping it doesn’t go downhill. $20B price is interesting, Canva was valued at $25B recently and does way less.
• bamboozled 4y ago
  $20 billion dollars for Figma? What the actual f...?
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• Zealotux 4y ago
  I apologize in advance for breaking the usual rules of HN when it comes to quality of discussion. Fuck.
  • geodel 4y ago
    Yeah, M&A are joining of forces. So it might well be what you said.
• sxg 4y ago
  I'm dismayed by this acquisition but glad to see the near-universal dislike towards Adobe in this thread. How can a $150B+ company exist with this much disdain for its business practices and products? I'm guessing Adobe's primary customer base is large corporations who don't care rather than individual users?
  • kumarvvr 4y ago
    It exists because some of its products are productivity monsters and are enterprise staples.
    • elliekelly 4y ago
      I think one of the reasons I hate Adobe so much is that I genuinely like a lot of their software. They make great (if bloated) products but they make terrible managerial decisions. They’re one of the few companies I think are evil to the very core. They employ dark patterns at every turn. It’s not about providing a product or even a service to customers; it’s only about extracting as much money from every customer as they possibly can.
  • pessimizer 4y ago
    In my opinion, largely because they own a bunch of industry standard formats, so any competitor would be forced to start by cloning one of their products. Once you've successfully done that, congratulations, you've conquered 4% of the market, in that one area (let's say a photo editor), and your software still seems broken (although it's faster, bugs get fixed quicker, and the UI wasn't designed by a crazy person or filled with 30 year old cruft) because it doesn't seamlessly integrate with the rest of their suite. Affinity seems to have made some penetration by copying/innovating on an entire range of their products, but that's a huge up-front investment to grab a tiny piece of the pie. This is really a job for antitrust, but modern antitrust is just a circa mid/early 20c legend we tell children so they aren't scared that capitalism could get out of control and eat them.
    • missedthecue 4y ago
• paradite 4y ago
  Blogpost from figma: https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/ https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/
• gadders 4y ago
  Great news for Invision. They must be stoked.
  • nytesky 4y ago
    How is that good news? Their biggest rival is now part of a monopolistic Goliath? Or do you mean the valuation helps boost their value?
    • gadders 4y ago
      There biggest rival is going to fall apart under the dead hand of Adobe.
• lofaszvanitt 4y ago
  They paid 20 billion for Figma? :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
• city17 4y ago
  Really hope they won't force you to use Creative Cloud, but it seems inevitable in the long term as that's Adobe's core business model. I don't even really dislike their software that much (although it is somewhat antiquated), I just hate the extreme bloat of CC and the poor integration between their apps. It's really 2000s legacy software. Instead of bringing Figma into the Adobe system, they should make Photoshop etc. more like Figma.
• baron816 4y ago
  Someone call the DOJ.
• bongobingo1 4y ago
  Adobe can't eat penpot! https://github.com/penpot/penpot https://github.com/penpot/penpot https://penpot.app/ https://penpot.app/ https://help.penpot.app/technical-guide/getting-started/#start-penpot https://help.penpot.app/technical-guide/getting-started/#sta...
  • bauripalash 4y ago
    > Adobe can't eat penpot! That's the beauty of open source
    • m12k 4y ago
      It's kind of amazing to me that we've reached the point where using open source is not a matter of idealism, but rather risk management to guard against the threat of product regressions due to consumer-hostile takeovers.
      • jcbrand 4y ago
        Open source has been used for risk management rather than idealism for probably about 20 years now.
        • marcodiego 4y ago
          Open source has been used for risk management rather than idealism for probably since the beginning.
      • archagon 4y ago
        "Always has been." (Also: the threat of product pivots or discontinuations.)
      • DC-3 4y ago
        Open source began because Xerox neglected to update their printer drivers. It's always been a blend of idealism and pragmatics.
• veritas20 4y ago
  seeing lots of comments about concerns given adobe's position in the market and past acquisitions...you can raise a compliant here: https://www.justice.gov/atr/citizen-complaint-center https://www.justice.gov/atr/citizen-complaint-center with references to The Clayton Act (https://www.justice.gov/atr/antitrust-laws-and-you-0 https://www.justice.gov/atr/antitrust-laws-and-you-0)
• parkingrift 4y ago
  No acquisition of this size should ever be allowed. Hard cap at no more than $1 billion in 2022 dollars. If Adobe wants Figma users then Adobe should... compete for them.
• faramarz 4y ago
  I think Scott Belsky (bechance), Chief of Product, strongly influenced this acquisition! he's been the breath of fresh air and innovation that Adobe has needed over the years! As long as he's at Adobe, we're in good hands. Frankly, I'd be glad if my existing Adobe suite at $105/month covers Figma in the fold. I do wonder if this means sunset for Adobe xD, which I'm totally cool with. This whole market was Sketch's for the losing, and I suspect at some point a merger with Abstract and Invision makes sense for them.
• auggierose 4y ago
  Sigh of relief. That opens up a lot of room for new startups :-D
• jordanmorgan10 4y ago
  Oh man, can't wait to never be able to cancel my Figma sub now
• hazzamanic 4y ago
  CEO of figma, Dylan Field, has a thread on Twitter about it: https://twitter.com/zoink/status/1570385551517437952 https://twitter.com/zoink/status/1570385551517437952
• tomaskafka 4y ago
  > By bringing powerful capabilities from Adobe’s imaging, photography, illustration, video, 3D and font technologies into the Figma platform, we can benefit all customers involved in the product design process, from designers to product managers to developers. Figma’s community will ultimately have a continuous user experience across ideation, screen layout, interaction design and content editing, allowing product designers and their stakeholders to operate at a whole new level. Adobe's clueless middle managers are already adding "push my useless pet feature to keep my chair busy" into their OKRs. Basically, they are an orc army to be unleashed to destroy one of Adobe's few viable competitors. Like mafia thugs with a baseball bat.
  • swyx 4y ago
    for what its worth @zoink says they'll still be autonomous https://twitter.com/zoink/status/1570385560312909826 https://twitter.com/zoink/status/1570385560312909826 and he doesnt seem like the kinda guy to lie about it (even if this might change 1-3 years down the road)
    • capableweb 4y ago
      Well, lets see what happens. But it doesn't bode well when Adobe is saying they'll add features for photography (wtf?) into Figma, when that's not what the tool is about at all.
    • esskay 4y ago
      I dare say they will be autonomous for a year. Then Adobe will want some ROI and start slapping creative cloud crap into it. I'd imaging it'll be added to the CCX launcher pretty quickly and made the only way to download it. Thankfully because it's electron it shouldn't be too hard for a 3rd party client to be made.
    • cmrdporcupine 4y ago
      That's the promise almost all acquisitions get. Even if it holds for a couple years, there's still the corrosive effect it has on morale and productivity as the surrounding company's broken culture seeps in and most of the high quality employees just either rest & vest or flee the vacating ship. The founders will stick around and play middle mgmt until their agreements run out, then leave ASAP. You know it's really bad if they leave before those agreements are done.
• seasnake 4y ago
  No mention of Penpot[0] yet? [0] http://penpot.app http://penpot.app
  • trymas 4y ago
    a reply to the top comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32850953 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32850953 TIL of penpot from that comment - seems great tool!
    • seasnake 4y ago
      Oh, tried to find it on the page but must have hidden the comment. I've never worked in it, but played around with it for a few minutes and it certainly seems capable enough for solo or small team use. It's also the only open source prototyping tool I've found yet.
  • janlukacs 4y ago
    This will be interesting too once they launch: https://www.expressivesuite.com/ https://www.expressivesuite.com/ (web based motion graphics + a vector tool).
• lloydatkinson 4y ago
  Every designer I know moved away from XD to Figma and now Adobe are effectively forcing people into XD as Figma is dead in the water now. I suppose this leaves Sketch? I imagine they are over the moon at this news.
  • noizz 4y ago
    XD had a great start, tons of updates, good team communication, I really liked where it was going 3-4 years ago. Then, for the past 2 years+, a total radio silence. Barely any new features, just crash fixes to make paying customers shut up. At least I now know the reason.
    • lloydatkinson 4y ago
      If that's the state of XD now imagine what a shitshow Figma will be under Adobes control.
• shp0ngle 4y ago
  I don't understand US anti-trust enforcement protocol. Is this before or after anti-trust process? I think there will be more than one person against this.
• cyco130 4y ago
  Cool Edit Pro was one of my favorite programs ever. Adobe bought it and renamed it to Audition. I still can't believe how fast it went down after that.
• happytoexplain 4y ago
  My heart plummeted when I read this headline. I've done UI design work in some capacity for 18 years, and have always dreamed of design software with the thoughtful UI and features of Figma. When I realized Figma was that software, it was like experiencing a miracle. Software like this doesn't exist. It was the first design software I paid for (yes, in 18 years). And now it's going to die. I almost feel like crying.
  • Kelteseth 4y ago
    You should try out Affinity Designer, the one time fee of 40 euros is a no brainer. I use it since 2017 for my UI designs.
    • pier25 4y ago
      I've tried Designer and I just hate how it handles groups. Illustrator seems to be the only vector software that does groups right these days.
  • roflyear 4y ago
    Adobe is a shit company. It is criminal how hard it is to cancel a subscription.
  • jansan 4y ago
    What is the great feature of Figma? I tried to use it for illustration and it did not feel great at all compared to software like Affinity Designer. How were you using it that it feels like such a great loss to you?
    • ryanSrich 4y ago
      Product (software specifically) design is where Figma shines. Auto layout, prototyping, etc. are second to none. Sketch had all of these features for years, but Figma’s implementation and depth of execution is unrivaled.
    • nobleach 4y ago
      Figma's biggest strength is in UI design. Open illustration, while possible is not so great. (I still love Illustrator for this purpose, others may disagree or have other favorite tools). Figma allows UX/UI designers to speak a congruent language with UI developers. A design system or component library can be mutually understood. Things like, "we're using our 80% gray button here" can be very easily communicated. That's not at all impossible in other tools, Figma just takes it to a very nice level.
• mikece 4y ago
  And now all of the Figma users are saying "Oh [crap]... now I need to find a new tool to use." When is the last time Adobe acquired something and it improved? They destroyed Fireworks and Dreamweaver when they acquired Macromedia (which they only did because they wanted Flash). At this point I'm tempted to swear off Adobe products entirely -- except that the combo of Lightroom and Photoshop are the industry standard for photography.
  • kderbyma 4y ago
    I try to avoid them like the plague. Affinity while not nearly as supported and feature rich....it doesn't stab and bleed me monthly for the privilege of bloatware...
    • jansan 4y ago
      How is Affinity Designer less feature rich? It has great features like corner rounding and interactive path offsetting that I cannot find in Figma? Also, Last time I looked Figma did not even allow skewing of objects.
      • detritus 4y ago
        Well, for a start, you can't set a stroke width less than 0.1mm, which may sound like a useless edge-case, but makes it useless as a single-point tool for designs to be sent to Lasers or CNC machines that run off a print driver. Also, the workflow's quite clunky. Still, I've bought it and Photo, just because I want them to one day better Illustrator and Photoshop. - ed Sorry - 'less than 0.1pt', not 0.1mm. Samediff ultimately.
        • BashiBazouk 4y ago
          I agree. It depends on what you do with the program as to how it compares to Illustrator. From a prepress perspective where I would use it to rip apart and fix graphic files so they print properly, Affinity Designer has a long way to go. For designing it's not too bad and slowly catching up. It is also the only one I have found so far that supports Pantone....
• monkin 4y ago
  For the last 12 years I did everything to avoid Adobe at any cost (I used it from version 5). Creative Cloud was my biggest nightmare and single point of every crash of macOS and Windows that I had. It’s a very sad day for designers.
• Robotbeat 4y ago
  Anti-trust law, please.
• petercooper 4y ago
  I notice the overall sentiment is negative here, but Adobe is one of few companies I can think of that seems to acquire solid companies with solid products and a view to keep and develop them over time. Macromedia's stuff fitted into the Adobe ecosystem very well, as did the stuff from Behance, Fotolia, Aviary and Mixamo. As a long time Adobe customer, I'm feeling very positive about this move.
• achow 4y ago
  Oct 2020 Figma was valued at $2.05 billion. Here's how the CEO of Figma went from a computer science intern to the head of a $2 billion company that's challenging Adobe for the love of designers across Silicon Valley - Oct 2020 https://www.businessinsider.com/figma-ceo-dylan-field-design-software-startup-2020-10?IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/figma-ceo-dylan-field-design...
  • swyx 4y ago
    10b in Aug 2021 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkonrad/2021/08/10/how-figma-became-designs-hottest-startup-valued-at-10billion/?sh=13a47c81726e https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkonrad/2021/08/10/how-figma... covid was so huge for Figma. literally 10xed in value in 2 years
• jrgd 4y ago
  wow great they will kill it in so many ways
• rvz 4y ago
  In at least less than 1 year or two, Dylan Field will leave Adobe / Figma. This is the entire operation of how companies with tons of VC capital just work. Now I see commenters complaining about 'anti-trust', 'anti-competition', etc. Given that you are now doing this, why not also complain about the very practises that violate anti-trust laws and anti-competition laws regularly done by Big Tech in general by blocking those deals and giving massive fines in the billions which will deter these sort of acquisitions and anti-competitive behaviour, like what happened to Plaid and VISA for example and the up-coming investigations into the Microsoft, Activision-Blizzard acquisition, etc. We should not turn a blind eye on this and do nothing because it is Amazon, Google, Microsoft, VISA, or even Adobe or any other company that is part of Big Tech and does acquisitions like this.
• iamgopal 4y ago
  How can a 15B$ Revenue company can buy 20B$ company ?
  • geodel 4y ago
    Taking loan? That's how people with $50K income by $500K homes
  • swyx 4y ago
    because youre conflating stock and flow. adobe is worth $170b.
  • collegeburner 4y ago
    companies never buy with straight revenue. first it's half stock, so that becomes 10. second adobe had about $5b cash on its balance sheet. third they may have issued commercial paper or bonds to finance it, not in front of a bloomberg atm so i can't check issuances but it's pretty likely.
• pilingual 4y ago
  Show HN 10 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4744877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4744877
  • capableweb 4y ago
    6 comments, not a lot... Should show people that successful Show HN isn't the end-all be-all that some believe. Here is some more interesting submissions with 30+ comments: - Launch of Figma, a collaborative interface design tool - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10685407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10685407 - 135 points|7 years ago|40 comments - Introducing Vector Networks: Generalized path editing for graphics - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11070600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11070600 - 198 points|7 years ago|30 comments - Figma 1.0 – Collaborative interface design tool - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12597915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12597915 - 340 points|6 years ago|58 comments One interesting comment made ~6 years ago > I hope they'll eventually choose this route. I also hope they won't be as greedy as Adobe. vladdanilov on Sept 28, 2016 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12599444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12599444
  • O__________O 4y ago
    CEO of Figma also commented in the past on HN that they were able to start Figma with support of the Thiel Fellowship: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11448538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11448538
• brennvin 4y ago
  I'm surprised Figma is worth that much. For a while I was considering bootstrapping a business in this space and I was never very impressed with what I saw of Figma. Does not look that hard to compete with or replicate.
  • sn0w_crash 4y ago
    “Does not look that hard to compete with or replicate” Then why haven’t you? Seems like a good opportunity to make a few billion now that Adobe has set a price. I hear this all the time on HN. And yet, this rhetoric never seems to follow through.
    • brennvin 4y ago
      > Then why haven’t you? I found another product opportunity that will be faster and cheaper to build. That I believe I could out-compete Figma were I rich does not mean I _am_ rich. Thanks for the down vote.
      • yellowpencil 4y ago
        Just my opinion, but your original comment comes off as comically dismissive of what Figma has done. Adobe, a company with literal billions in cash and thousands of engineers, wagers 20 BILLION dollars that it is not easy to compete or replicate what Figma has done. In fact, they attempted to compete with Adobe XD and "lost". The founders of Figma started working on the beginnings of it in 2012 (perhaps indirectly) and launched in 2016. They also raised 330+ million in VC money to make it happen. I'm a bootstrapped at heart and love the idea of small companies outmaneuvering giant elephants but suggesting one could outdo Figma, with relative ease, just doesn't sound likely. All that said, if you truly feel like you can, get out there and do it! Theres billions of dollars waiting for you.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • phailhaus 4y ago
    You'd never be able to compete because the design is the product. You'd just be stuck copying them, always one step behind. Their interface's responsiveness is also a consequence of writing a rendering engine in WASM, so you'd have to figure that out too. [1] Plus the real-time collab. I don't know why you pretend as if these aren't difficult engineering problems to solve. [1] https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-by-3x/ https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-...
• phaedryx 4y ago
  Time to renew my Sketch license?
• kderbyma 4y ago
  time.to leave....
• cj 4y ago
  Congrats Dylan. I remember riding caltrain with you from south bay to SF, watching you sit on the floor of the train coding a "photoshop alternative" thinking your idea was crazy!
  • asciii 4y ago
    That's a neat throwback. Great to see his dedication pay off in the world.
• pastor_bob 4y ago
  I was just looking at Figma open positions and was wondering why they've been on a hiring spree while most other companies aren't. I guess I know now.
• admn2 4y ago
  I always felt Google would buy them to add a design tool to Google Drive's suite of offerings. Guess this make more sense.
• _jnc 4y ago
  In cases like this I always wonder, what stops another startup from basically just spinning up a figma clone from scratch?
• zander312 4y ago
  Adobe is a disgusting company. I remember they charged me $150 just to be able to cancel my fucking accidental subscription to their awful creative cloud. R.I.P Figma
• patchorang 4y ago
  With Figma's memory and performance issues lately, it feels like Adobe bought them a year ago.
  • jjcm 4y ago
    (figma employee) Unrelated to the news, would love to know what memory/perf issues you're facing. Do you have files where you're hitting the memory caps?
• gdubs 4y ago
  Wild to me that they are getting bought for $20B yet didn't think they could make it through this macroeconomic environment. Or maybe just too hard to turn down that amount? Figma is one of the most vibrant platforms I've seen in recent memory — genuinely it goes well for all involved, including the users.
• skilled 4y ago
  Okay, this is awesome - I literally had the thought of "Figma is so fucking awesome, what the hell would I do without it?" pop into my head multiple times today! And now I know now why... Fuck! I mean, I am happy for the entire Figma team and everything they have accomplished, and everything they've given to the designer and the Internet-at-large community. But I fear this might be gradual end of it, hence my brainwaves going all crazy about it. I signed up to Figma the day it was released, and it immediately became the tool I use for creating and editing vector graphics. Since then I have written well over 1,000 articles, and I can say with confidence that for 80% of those articles - all my visuals were created, edited or improved with Figma. I have never spent a single dollar on the product. That was also one of my thoughts today - like holy shit, I can actually enjoy this fast interface, greater features, and insane amount of community resources for no cost? Yeah, these guys did it right. Let's see how the story unfolds.
• diimdeep 4y ago
  $20B for graphics editor in browser – there is no inflation in US. World does not make any sense.
  • MisterSandman 4y ago
    Adobe is worth 10 times that and technically just makes "photo and video editors for PC."
• whiddershins 4y ago
  In contrast to the negativity here, I am optimistic that Adobe won't screw this up. The past acquisitions are not necessarily an indicator of the future. Adobe consistently upgraded Photoshop even when they had virtually no competition. Their CC subscription pricing is actually an incredible vaue if you use it as a professional. Figma has a huge user base, and a team that is excelling where Adobe is struggling - collaborative cloud-first design software. It is very possible that a 20B acquisition is in part Adobe investing in talent to address a gap in their expertise. This isn't 20 years ago, it is now.
• jdmdmdmdmd 4y ago
• rchaud 4y ago
  For those interested in non-subscription, one-time payment alternatives, there are a few options: 1. Figma replacement - Sketch (1yr fee, updates optional, MacOS only) 2. Adobe Photoshop - Affinity Photo (Win/Mac) 3. Adobe Illustrator - Affinity Designer (Win/Mac) 4. Adobe InDesign - Affinity Publisher (Win/Mac) (I use this to create my indie magazine) 5. Adobe Animate - Tumult Hype (closest thing to Flash that we have today, replaces my need for After Effects + Bodymoovin, Mac OS only)
  • gaws 4y ago
    Don't forget alternatives for GNU/Linux, too.
    • rchaud 4y ago
      I only know about GIMP and Inkscape for Linux, and I wouldn't recommend them for work-related use. As free tools go however, they are both quite powerful and feature-filled. Just harder to use and can crash unexpectedly, which is why I didn't include them.
  • bearmode 4y ago
    Those options are all great for non-professionals. Absolutely go for those if you're not using them for your job. Have to see what Adobe does with Figma before abandoning it, though
  • brikwerk 4y ago
    After checking out Sketch, I don't believe they offer a one-time payment option any longer. They seem to have switched to a subscription service now? I don't use software like Figma or Sketch often enough to justify an ongoing subscription, so I suppose Penpot might be the next best alternative for users like myself?
    • Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
      > After checking out Sketch, I don't believe they offer a one-time payment option any longer You still can get it, but only after contacting support: "We can still offer Mac-only licenses as new purchases to people who, for legal or security reasons, cannot use cloud-based products. However, they only offer access to the Mac app, and don’t get all the other benefits of a subscription. Get in touch with us if you’re a company with special requirements and would like a to use Sketch with only local storage." [0] [0]: https://www.sketch.com/docs/subscriptions/ https://www.sketch.com/docs/subscriptions/
• kadomony 4y ago
  It's as if millions of design files screamed out and were suddenly silenced. Fuck Adobe.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• mukadul 4y ago
  Like Oracle. Buy nice things because you can and you hate colourful light shining through te windows of your dull offices. Paint it gray and resell it.
• wolfparade 4y ago
  Don’t do it Figma. You can beat Adobe.
• tekkk 4y ago
  Boo. How come the big American mega-companies are always allowed to buy out the upcoming competitors? I thought you guys were all about free-market? Although I guess that's what complete free-market does. Oh well. For sure prepare for price hike. But it'll be interesting to see what they'll do with the cutting-edge web app know-how they'll acquire from Figma.
  • chresko 4y ago
    How does this acquisition conflict with a free market? Figma isn't being forced to sell i.e. this isn't a hostile takeover. Figma is free to continue to compete. There's not a 100% clear antitrust case although the $20B buyout could be viewed as anticompetitive behavior (perhaps contradicting my previous statement).
    • tekkk 4y ago
      Now they aren't forced, but you wonder does this consolidation of assets/companies benefit customer in any way. For Figma this is probably a great move to become part of the biggest design/image/video/whatever editing company - you get your pay-day as well join the winning team in the market. To me it just seems less competition for them, higher prices for customers since there aren't really options (eg photoshop, Figma for collaborative design). But if FTC says this is cool, I guess we'll just have to live with it.
• micheljansen 4y ago
  This is huge. Adobe was asleep at the wheel while Sketch ate their lunch. Now they are definitely back.
  • nailer 4y ago
    To be fair Sketch was also asleep at the wheel while Figma ate their lunch.
    • micheljansen 4y ago
      Very true!
• yashasolutions 4y ago
  this is seriously sad. It is so hard to build a great product, and so easy to f things up. Given Adobe track record, there is litterally more chances to see things going south for figma
• boraoztunc 4y ago
  why why why
• felixmeziere 4y ago
  C'est de l'Adobe.
• rykuno 4y ago
  This is an extremely sad sellout and a poor and obvious effort to monopolize. The fact we all know whats coming is a sign Adobe should not exist as a company anymore with the way they can treat end users/products and still get away with it. I'm sure the people at Sketch are currently throwing a party that can be seen halfway across the world though. Fuck Adobe.
• tamade 4y ago
  If you can't beat them, buy them
• alphabetting 4y ago
  Lmao Meta can't even buy a VR fitness app. The current FTC leadership is an absolute joke.
• hartator 4y ago
  Nooo. Remember Macromedia. Flash, Dreamweaver, Fireworks, etc. Such a sad graveyard of great products.
• Dimidium-07 4y ago
  Hopefully Figma won't go under the CC and then there won't be a free version anymore.
• brailsafe 4y ago
  $20B is hard to say no too. Is that the new Unicorn? One piece of software basically being worth more than some first world cities? Thankfully I never tried it, so I don't know what I'll miss when it's destroyed.
  • solardev 4y ago
    Figma is really pretty revolutionary as far as web apps go, both from the design side (collaborative, beautiful, and easy to use) and from the dev side (realtime multiplayer, fast stateful graphics with undo/redo, incredibly complex UI, built in a combination of WebGL, WASM, and Workers). For a while before it, Sketch was the dominant UX/UI tool, but then Figma came outta nowhere and surprised the world by showing what could be accomplished with a web app, using a freemium model, developed by a previously unknown company. As far as unicorns go, I can't think of many startups that have delivered similarly amazing value (maybe Cloudflare and Vercel?), and certainly none in the design space. Like Canva and Draw.io etc. are alright, but Figma is really technologically impressive (and beautiful, and usable!). If you ever see a complex UI that you enjoy using... chances are very high Figma was used for some part of it.
    • Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
      > Sketch was the dominant UX/UI tool, but then Figma came outta nowhere and surprised the world by showing what could be accomplished ... I use both frequently and Sketch is far better than Figma. But Figma had one thing really going for it: it works on every platform with a browser, while Sketch is (sadly) Mac only. Every designer and his dog might have a Mac in the US, but the rest of the world is a different story. Lately, Sketch does show that it is moving in the direction of a cloud, but I doubt that we'd see a web editor from them anytime soon.
      • solardev 4y ago
        What do you like better about Sketch? (Just curious. I'm a FE dev and all the designers I've worked with have moved to Figma over the last few years, and you're the only one who's ever told me it was better.)
• pedrogpimenta 4y ago
  > In addition, when used in this communication, the words “will,” “expects,” “could,” “would,” “may,” “anticipates,” “intends,” “plans,” “believes,” “seeks,” “targets,” “estimates,” “looks for,” “looks to,” “continues” and similar expressions, as well as statements regarding our focus for the future, are generally intended to identify forward-looking statements. Each of the forward-looking statements we make in this communication involves risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from these forward-looking statements. Indeed.
• tolulade_ato 4y ago
• joshe 4y ago
  This is probably the only tech acquisition that's ever made me sad. I just hate Adobe so much. The nightmare of their installer, the weird store with horrible designs popping up when you activate normal ui stuff, the difficulty in canceling a subscription, and the stasis in their product and ui. Oh and the sloppiness of Lightroom on mac with it's weird ui and that it didn't even import and manage photos well. I've been so happy to have Adobe out of my life these last 10 years. I never even cared about the cost. And figma has been so admirable, one of the best browser based apps. Always squeezing incredible performance out of the web with their crazy c++ engine. And their fast pace of delivering new features, often reworking ui just for the craft of it. It's been fun to just read the release notes. https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-by-3x/ https://www.figma.com/blog/webassembly-cut-figmas-load-time-... Perhaps the silver lining will be the talent scattering, moving to and founding other companies, but for today this sucks.
  • Lorin 4y ago
    They ruined Macromedia as well. Fireworks was a fantastic hybrid vector/bitmap editing tool perfect for web work.
    • vyrotek 4y ago
      Indeed. I started using Fireworks during the Macromedia era. I still regularly using my CS6 Fireworks.
    • derefr 4y ago
      Always wondered why an indie app developer hasn't just decided to work their image-editor app up as "the new Fireworks." Many other image-editor apps do now take Fireworks' same non-destructive hybrid editing approach... kind of. But they're always missing one thing or another. Either: 1. they aren't multiplatform (can't get "standard" adoption like Fireworks if you're macOS-only) 2. they don't go far enough with the vector editing capabilities (e.g. Fireworks allows you to apply arbitrary gradients/textures/other image assets as the stroke and fill of vector shapes) 3. they don't go far enough with the non-destructiveness (e.g. Fireworks applies filter-effects to both vector and raster layers, as non-destructive "filter layers" bound to a parent layer — effectively "functional lenses" for images; can edit the base layer "underneath" these transformation layers, and see the transformed output change as a result. Of course, you can always "flatten" the transformations into the layer, to then edit the post-transformed version of the layer. Though IMHO this could be taken even further, with "brush modifications" being just another kind of transformation layer!) 4. they use project file formats that consist of entire directory bundles, or file formats opaque to the OS preview mechanism. Fireworks just stored projects as an extension chunk of a PNG file; and every OS knows how to preview PNG files. (And, if you didn't care about the project, you could just treat the PNG file as a PNG file, putting it through ImageMagick or MSPaint or whatever, which would strip the optional chunks, thus "exporting" the project to PNG without needing the program that created it!)
• denimnerd42 4y ago
  This is why I won't use SaaS products or orient my career into products that use SaaS.
• whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  Honestly my disappointment in the Figma team will be immeasurable if they sell out to Adobe. You took us all to a great place and threw us to the lion. Could have had customers for life but I’ll be canceling as soon as you transition over to Adobe. What pains me the most is they could have easily been the ones to make Adobe obsolete if they had vision and values. In 10 years it would be a Nokia VS iPhone situation with us asking how Adobe became Nokia.
• ezekg 4y ago
  Well, back to Sketch I guess.
• rglover 4y ago
  This shouldn't surprise anyone. Figma followed the typical path for a company/product taking on massive amounts of venture capital. If you are shocked by this, please take note and stop investing in products and services (no matter how good) that are investment vehicles, not real businesses.
• m88m 4y ago
  Nice. I guess it’s about time to check what Sketch has been up to…
• wly_cdgr 4y ago
  Noooooooooooooo surprise
• sklargh 4y ago
  A lot of antitrust sentiment here. If you care to cajole the feds into action - here is the public service email for reporting antitrust concerns to the FTC - antitrust@ftc.gov
• hmcamp 4y ago
  I don’t believe this will be good for the market. I feel Adobe is doing this to kill a potential threat to their XD and other design tools.
  • asadlionpk 4y ago
    I think XD is about to be killed.
• butterlesstoast 4y ago
  Brace yourselves for Figma to be the next Magento like monolith that Adobe has no idea how to support : (
• solardev 4y ago
  Oh noooooooooooo!!!! They're going to bloat it up, make it slow, roll it into Creative Cloud, and add obnoxious DRM :( :( :( Boooooooooooo.
• punkpeye 4y ago
  What are alternatives to Figma?
  • psteinweber 4y ago
    Sketch
  • solardev 4y ago
    There's that open-source one also mentioned on HN today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32851262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32851262 Sketch, Balsamiq (for simpler wireframes), Adobe XD
• artemkubatkin 4y ago
  Oh no :( Unbelievably sad news.
• aluminussoma 4y ago
  Adobe has been unable to find technological innovation organically (To their credit, their stock price soared through financial engineering). Adobe has instead augmented its capabilities through acquisitions. Today's acquisition of Figma is no different. And maybe that is fine. Adobe is not alone. Many big companies can only expand their capabilities through acquisitions. Those big companies are doing fine. Specific to Adobe, the acquisition of Macromedia was a huge success in part because it injected a lot of talent into Adobe that stayed and succeeded. Maybe Figmates will be able to do the same.
  • CharlesW 4y ago
    > Adobe has been unable to find technological innovation organically… In-house innovation is not the problem¹. What Adobe hasn't been able to replicate with XD or Illustrator is Figma's success with network effects related to collaborative editing and review. https://research.adobe.com/research/ https://research.adobe.com/research/
    • aluminussoma 4y ago
      In house innovation is certainly a problem on the product side. What new Adobe products have come out in the last decade? Every new product or service is from an acquisition.
  • klabb3 4y ago
    > their stock price soared through financial engineering Not disagreeing with your point, but they can kindly fuck off piggy-backing on the good reputation of engineering, which is about building things, not rent-seeking and gate keeping. It would be like saying Intuit is innovating "political engineering". Or calling an unpaid internship at Goldman Sachs "volunteering". I have similar thoughts about "growth hacking", btw.
• redocecin 4y ago
  Just realize that Evan had left Figma before https://madebyevan.com/figma/ https://madebyevan.com/figma/
• arctics 4y ago
  This is normal for endgame capitalism, big fish eats small one.
• kehrin 4y ago
  Can't help but feel incredibly betrayed by Figma. Well, we had a good run.
• greyhair 4y ago
  Adobe is to software as Nestle is to water.
• icu 4y ago
  RIP Figma, I've been trying to avoid Adobe products since they charge the earth for their products and free open source options are solid alternatives. I'm expecting Adobe to eventually price gouge us to the point where we are forced to find a Figma alternative.
  • toastal 4y ago
    Post C6, I was 100% out and only FOSS as well. Dedicating time to those tools have proven more than acceptable and on occasion I got to file a bug too. Of them, darktable and Hugin have been my favorites.
    • icu 4y ago
      Gimp and Inkscape are incredible PhotoShop and Illustrator alternatives. I'll have to check out Hugin, thanks for the tip!
  • jacooper 4y ago
    There is penpot
• asciii 4y ago
  This is not the news I wanted to wake up to today. Come on Figma! How bad did you need it?
• flykespice 4y ago
  Adobe on the run to ruin another amazing software.
• jchw 4y ago
  There is literally no direction this can go but down. If there wasn't enough evidence before, this seems to strongly suggest your only salvation from user-hostile corporate monoliths is community open source projects. So... Anyone want to build a multiplayer design tool? :)
  • margarina72 4y ago
    you mean like PenPot? Check https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32851262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32851262
    • jchw 4y ago
      I assumed something like this didn't exist so hard that I never bothered to look. That's awesome.
• obert 4y ago
  long life to PenPot https://penpot.app/ https://penpot.app/
• not2b 4y ago
  I hope the antitrust authorities take a good look at this one.
• eagsalazar2 4y ago
  Just checked out Penpot, it's pretty good! Definitely usable for daily driving although I'm sure looking deeper there will be some features I miss. Going to try importing some Figma designs...
  • Vinnl 4y ago
    Link: https://penpot.app https://penpot.app It's also open source! Discussed on HN before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30407913 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30407913 Oh, and of course on the frontpage now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32851262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32851262
    • bokchoi 4y ago
      And it's clojure!
• hackitup7 4y ago
  So smart for both Adobe and Figma. Figma posed a serious threat to Adobe and it makes sense for them to do it. The losers are all of us poor sods who were happy Figma customers. Just goes to show that if you want an outsized exit multiple the best way is to put a gun to a $100B company's head.
  • tempie_deleteme 4y ago
    it's a bit counterintuitive that something can be good for a company (or companies) AND bad for the customers of said company... shouldn't something that is bad for a customer of a company be bad for the company too?
    • desmosxxx 4y ago
      It's good for adobe and figma employees/shareholders, but bad for figma as a product / new sub-business
    • Swenrekcah 4y ago
      Only if there is active competition between similarly sized companies with the customers able to move unhindered between them. Antitrust regulators have long since been forbidden to use their diminishing powers to make that a reality.
    • Vinnl 4y ago
      Generally, companies obtaining a monopoly position is bad for consumers.
    • colechristensen 4y ago
      No, the interests of companies and customers are usually at odds with big mergers. Competition is good for customers, it means different things get tried so there’s more diversity in products and pressure to compete on lower prices. Figma is not selling to gain any efficiency or benefit from being included in Adobe, people are just looking for a pay day. These kind of just payday mergers along with private equity profit by destruction mergers need a lot of regulatory backpressure because they simply aren’t in the interests of anybody but the people profiting from them.
• seangp 4y ago
  Looks like I'll be returning to Sketch.
• srameshc 4y ago
  I want to be happy for everyone who made Figma happen and their success but at the same time it makes me sad to see Adobe buying it. I am hoping Adobe won't mess up with Figma in future.
• frozencell 4y ago
  Good, Figma wasn't a good Photoshop alternative anyway.
  • marcofiset 4y ago
    Figma is an alternative to XD, and it blows it out the water. Not sure what you're trying to say.
• akagusu 4y ago
  This acquisition is anticompetitive and should be blocked by government.
• recardwe 4y ago
  Agree with @tambourine_man Adobe will KILL Figma just like Freehand. Adobe is a predatory borg that will kill innovation.
• moomoo11 4y ago
  It was a good run lol.
• recusive_story 4y ago
  Time start an alternative startup because figma is soon gonna stagnate once it is acquired.
• pantulis 4y ago
  Adobe will use Figma as a bridge between Creative Suite and Experience Cloud for bigger creative/mkt agencies and enterprises. I doubt they will destroy Figma, but the focus will be different.
• Aeolun 4y ago
  For once it would be nice if someone would value a world in which their baby isn’t ruined by a big competitor, more than a world in which they have 20B in their bank account. But I’ve yet to see that happen.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • elteto 4y ago
    Two things: 1) Once you take VC money you probably can’t say no to an opportunity like this. It’s not entirely yours to say no anymore. Alternative is to retain control, but you don’t get the cash infusion and have to grow slower and more organically. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, just a different path. 2) This is not a baby, this is a commercial product. If someone offers me 20B for something I created I will happily accept it. What greater reward for my work and my vision to create a product than someone valuing it in millions/billions?
    • Aeolun 4y ago
      > If someone offers me 20B for something I created I will happily accept it. I can’t say what will happen for real of course, but the knowledge that they’ll ruin what I spent years building would give me pause, I think.
• yalogin 4y ago
  How is this the first time I am hearing about a design firm that is worth $20 billion?
• nycdatasci 4y ago
  Interesting context on this deal from a month ago: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/25/figma-growing-inside-microsoft-testing-longtime-deal-with-adobe.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/25/figma-growing-inside-microso...
• dawsmik 4y ago
  Is it possible that this runs into anti-trust issues?
• ramosu 4y ago
  Sad news. Why don't Adobe just die already?
• bigfish24 4y ago
  Incredible product, journey, and financial success. Nevertheless, I bet this was not an easy decision. Losing independence even with all the other great aspects isn't ideal. Just a guess, but I bet the prospect of doing layoffs compared to selling played a role. Gitlab/Monday are public comps and currently worth less than Figma's last valuation.
• alexhackney 4y ago
  I have paid for Adobe CC for years now, since they started subscriptions. As much as I hate shelling out $29.99 a month for something I use maybe 5 times a month, it always just worked for me. I've started looking at alternatives, but it's hard to spend the time learning the new product vs just spending the $30 a month. I think they've tried to raise mine several times. If I can ever not renew at $29.99, I will probably prioritize finding the time to try other stuff.
• user3939382 4y ago
  Adobe engages in all kinds of bad faith shenanigans and dark patterns, feeling free to abuse their position. They need competition and this should be blocked by the FTC.
• satya71 4y ago
  I have had good luck with Lunacy [1]. I hope they get some users from this sale. [1] https://icons8.com/lunacy https://icons8.com/lunacy
  • Icons8 4y ago
    Founder here. A little bit, yeah. Twice the usual installs in the Microsoft Store: https://lun-us.icons8.com/a/mI9C5AKookGuZXtrXLg1Sg/HNVJ3hin3kqq1TIKpqekLg/Image.png https://lun-us.icons8.com/a/mI9C5AKookGuZXtrXLg1Sg/HNVJ3hin3... Thank you for supporting us; I'm touched.
• t3estabc 4y ago
  This does not surprise me.
• slantedview 4y ago
  Adobe is not buying Figma to keep its prices the same. There are a lot of ways this could play out, but that much is true.
• blairanderson 4y ago
  here to complain about bloomberg.com - couldn't find any content to read on that page. https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/ https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/
• kgc 4y ago
  Time to find a Figma alternative.
• connor11528 4y ago
  According to the FTC the law states that mergers are illegal when the effect "may be substantially to lessen competition or to tend to create a monopoly." Pretty positive this would lessen competition in design software and restablish Adobe as a monopoly. This merger should be blocked. https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/mergers/competitive-effects https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...
  • that_guy_iain 4y ago
    Considering the instant response on HN was to upvote the open source competition and the fact many people are probably going to leave to go to a competitor because they hate Adobe. It probably doesn't lessen competition but increases it since a lot of competitors are getting sign ups right now.
    • arthurofbabylon 4y ago
      The argument "but there are competitors" – that the very existence of other players in a market should preclude the blocking of acquisitions – is flawed and misleading. For competition to strengthen a space, it needs to be meaningful competition. The goal for regulators should not be "more than one player in every category." It should be diverse product expression, improved customer utility, and most of all ZERO winner-take-all effects. That last item (winner-take-all) is crucial to understand, and I'm sad that it is no longer a major part of economic discourse (as it once was when systems-thinking was more common). Winner-take-all effects often occur without an explicit monopoly, yet devastate the category and its adjacent categories.
      • that_guy_iain 4y ago
        > For competition to strengthen a space, it needs to be meaningful competition. There are meaningful competitors to Adobe's design tools. There are quite a few applications like Figma with a decent amount of traction. The fact they will be receiving an uptick in users will increase their meaningfulness which means Adobe acquiring Figma is not lessening the competition.
• makobado 4y ago
  that is too much
• kybernetyk 4y ago
  $20b? I guess hyper inflation is a thing. How long will they need to recoup the purchase? How many customers does figma have and how much do they pay to justify $20B?
• log101 4y ago
  Noooooooo!
• andsoitis 4y ago
  I read mostly disappointment here that Adobe will harm/destroy Figma. We have to remember, though, that Figma leaders think otherwise…
  • w-j-w 4y ago
    It's pretty easy to see the bright side of a deal that makes you incredibly wealthy.
• chadlavi 4y ago
  They're gonna fucking ruin the only good web design app. Very disappointed about this.
• panick21_ 4y ago
  Since this is a thread of Adobe and some people might know this: In the late 80s and 90s many of the window managers were based on PostScript. Sun News was an extension of PostScript and Next was based on Display PostScript. How did licensing work back then. Could Sun have OpenSource News? I mean it did implement PostScript but my understanding is they were not using actual Adobe code.
  • hedgehog 4y ago
    I don't know specifically but it was bad enough that Apple decided to rework OS X before they shipped.
    • panick21_ 4y ago
      I never read anything about why they did it. Next developed Display PostScript with Adobe back in the day.
      • hedgehog 4y ago
        At the time I saw claims that licensing was the reason for the switch, it makes sense but don't know of any 1st hand sources. PDF was free of royalties so it probably made sense to switch as they reworked NeXTSTEP into OS X.
  • grishka 4y ago
    Is it even possible to license a standard? Not a particular implementation, but the standard itself, like a file format or a network protocol.
    • panick21_ 4y ago
      I don't know if there were libraries or things like that provided by Adobe that was included in News. > Is it even possible to license a standard? Its the age old question of software interfaces right? My assumption would that if Sun had their own implementation with no code from Adobe, they should be able to open it up. But unlike that that is something Adobe would have liked.
• bumblebritches5 4y ago
• ChildOfChaos 4y ago
  Whoa, $20b seems like an eye watering amount for a tool like this. I guess it goes to show how little I know about all of this, but surely a company with Adobe’s resources and prestige could just engineer something like this for less themselves? Seems crazy to me. I guess it’s mostly about removing competition and giving people less options to not use an adobe product rather than the product itself that has value?
  • didibus 4y ago
    They have Adobe XD which is a desktop app, and my UX designer friends tell me it's actually a bit better than Figma in terms of features, but the allure of a cloud based Web tool like Figma that really promotes easily sharing and collaboration as the designer work is why Figma is more popular.
• ChrisArchitect 4y ago
  Not a fan of Adobe and not really a fan of Figma but they are things. Alot of people talking about Macromedia Fireworks and Dreamweaver etc in here is a bit curmudgeonly-old HN. That's forever ago now as far as web/design. Yes it was sad/and Adobe made a mess, but alot has changed since then that lead to the environment where Figma rose. Not to mention probably most of the audience of users that are really into Figma weren't even born when all the golden era Flash and stuff was going on. The youngins don't understand big business Adobe, and they probably don't like the 'vibe', but they also aren't totally against it if they can keep using the product they owe a lot of their career to. They will be fine I think.
• andy_ppp 4y ago
  Surely this is terrible for competition?
• mym1990 4y ago
  It says a lot about the current state of the tech ecosystem when almost every acquisition is seen to be a death sentence for a product. What would a world look like where people rejoiced at these kinds of things? Well…we will probably never know, sadly.
• seydor 4y ago
  OK now the field is open, just clone Adobe Figma, acquire $$$. Do they have particularly substantial patents?
• silent_cal 4y ago
  Surprised to see all the "hate" for Adobe. They provide an awesome suite of products only $55 per month. I've had nothing but good experiences with them. Is it wrong to pay for software when you get a truckload of value out of it? No other creative software even comes close.
  • builtmighty 4y ago
    Paid endorsement?
    • silent_cal 4y ago
      No, I just use the software and like it. What's wrong with that?
  • happytoexplain 4y ago
    Figma doesn't come close - it blows Adobe out of the water. I don't need a "suite", I need to design software. Figma lets me do that for $15 per month, and, from experience, is miles ahead of Adobe XD.
    • silent_cal 4y ago
      Okay, I doubt that is going to change. If anything you will probably start paying less per month
• jawadch93 4y ago
  [dead]
• NaN1352 4y ago
  FFS now they’re going to ruin it.
• mathgladiator 4y ago
  Well, mediocrity will create an opportunity for a new thing to emerge. I'm currently building my own figma for board games, so perhaps I'll focus on it sooner rather than later.
• kundi 4y ago
  In America, greed eats purpose
• unstrategic 4y ago
  Figma was never on track to change the world. They were an Adobe clone from the beginning, out-executing them, but fundamentally exactly as anti-innovative. Not that $20B is anything to shake a stick at — but real innovation in this market will be worth one to two orders of magnitude more. Figma was scratching at this with their "whole org collab" vision and FigJam, but they lacked the vision to crack it, and their execution has been faltering since their early talent started jumping ship. Selling to a desperate Adobe, distressed by public markets, is the perfect chance to "fail up." Why am I disappointed in Figma? Because they could have been so much more. Because in effect, they have held the creative world back by doubling down & cashing in on Adobe's corruption of design tooling. Play Adobe games, win Adobe prizes. It's just a shit game, and peanuts compared to latent opportunity in this space.
  • duped 4y ago
    > but real innovation in this market will be worth one to two orders of magnitude more. 200 billion, maybe. $2 trillion? Maybe with 10% inflation for a few more years.
    • unstrategic 4y ago
      Sure, $2T — a fundamental innovation in how we "design and build" software has implications as far-reaching as the World Wide Web itself. Google IS the World Wide Web — they have previously broken a $2T market cap.
  • jjcm 4y ago
    "but fundamentally exactly as anti-innovative." Would love to hear more about this thought. Disclaimer: figma employee.
    • unstrategic 4y ago
      When Adobe acquired Macromedia, they extinguished an entire paradigm of design tool: "design tools that create software." Back in the booming 90's, this paradigm was _the future_. Through that acquisition, Adobe shoe-horned the world into a paradigm of "hand-offs," and Figma's leadership (namely, Sho) doubled down on the "hand-off" vision. "Play Adobe games." The future for collaborating on software design & build looks more like Flash, and less like Photoshop (though obviously, not quite like either.) "Exactly as anti-innovative."
• thrillgore 4y ago
  I just hate Adobe and Autodesk so much for pricing me out of affordable alternatives and software that's actually good.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• bilsbie 4y ago
  Why I gotta update my software once a week just to read pdfs?
• zander312 4y ago
  Adobe is a nasty, predatory company. They charged me like $200 just for the ability to cancel my Adobe subscription. Caught me with some fine print. Will never touch Figma now.
• spyremeown 4y ago
  Not a frontend dev or designer, but I've seen people doing amazing things with Figma and it seemed loved all around. Counting the days for Adobe to completely wreck it.
• bears-n-beets 4y ago
  As a current software engineer at Adobe, I was really disappointed when I got the internal email announcing this this morning. It's reminiscent of Microsoft's anticompetitive behavior in the early 00s. Figma is the better product and Adobe knows it - but instead of using that to light a fire under them and work harder to create a better product, Adobe just used its deep pockets to make the problem go away. I was already planning on leaving the company for other reasons but this is the nail in the coffin for me.
  • isnhp 4y ago
    Adobe loses the game with their skill and use money to win it. Figma won the game with their skill but lose the money game.
    • pcurve 4y ago
      Yep. Everybody has a price. It's not that Figma was worth $20 billion. It's that Adobe was likely seeing subscription revenue take hit from customers that realized there's no need for creative cloud subscription.
      • unstrategic 4y ago
        > It's that Adobe was likely seeing subscription revenue take hit from customers While being pummeled by public markets, and being forced to make a move that might keep shareholders from calling for blood. This is certainly not the first time that Adobe has presented a number to Figma's board — but it has to be the biggest number yet, by far. From Figma's position: take your chances on an IPO while the Fed is cracking skulls around inflation — or flip the bit on that liability, and cash out to a desperate Adobe?
        • majani 4y ago
          Another interesting layer to this is that Adobe only has $5b in cash according to their balance sheet, so the overwhelming majority of this deal is probably in Adobe stock with a long vesting period. Also the deal being done in a downturn means that the difference between this and an IPO is academic in my view
• lprd 4y ago
  I was burned by Adobe for the last time a few years ago. Since then, I avoid them like the plague. I loved Figma, but now I will be searching for an alternative. Adobe ruins everything they acquire, and its only a matter of time before Figma follows suit.
• beardedman 4y ago
  I honestly miss Adobe from 10 - 15 years ago. It feels like they were a product company back then, as opposed to an upsell-advertising company (they are now). I don't use their products a lot these days, but when I do; I am always surprised by the slowness & bloat. I'm not too sure why the Figma people decided this was a good idea - but makes me grateful for Affinity & Sketch still being available.
  • Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
    You mean that Adobe that recently aquired Macromedia and killed off Dreamweaver and Fireworks?
• Insanity 4y ago
  Man, that is bad news for news for consumers. But also seems like Figma could have gotten more money? $20B is a _ton_ of money but it's the only real competitor in Adobe's space I think. Or at least the only threat.
• headelf 4y ago
  In light of this sad news– who's working on a NON-Adobe version to take its place?
• hanselot 4y ago
  And another one down and another one down.
• metanonsense 4y ago
  When you listen very, very carefully, you can still here the champagne corks popping in the Sketch headquarters.
• gffrd 4y ago
  Well, it was fun while it lasted! See you in the dark ages …
• calibas 4y ago
  I'm not a big fan of Adobe. Many years ago, I spent about $600 on their Creative Suite. A few months later I bought a new camera only to realize Photoshop didn't support the RAW format, and I needed to purchase an upgrade to the latest version of Photoshop that had just been released. $600 software that I purchased less than a year ago and it was already obsolete... That being said, I always wished Figma had the ability to import/export PSD files.
• cromulent 4y ago
  Where software goes to die. Can someone remind me of a product that came from Adobe, rather than an acquisition?
• nk_kolja 4y ago
  What's Figma?
• homarp 4y ago
  https://mobile.twitter.com/pitdesi/status/1570467987119050757 https://mobile.twitter.com/pitdesi/status/157046798711905075... What investors first paid for @Figma , which @adobe buying for ~$40.20 per share: $0.088: @dannyrimer/@IndexVentures , Jacobsen/OATV A $0.199: @johnolilly /@GreylockVC, @semil B $0.332: @mamoonha/@kleinerperkins C $1.098: @andrew__reed/@sequoia D $4.619: Peter Levine/@a16z $21.29: @henryellenbogen/Durable
  • arbuge 4y ago
    So the seed was done at a $40m valuation?
    • laser 4y ago
      If there had been no dilution. Co-founders appear to have been diluted 80% so assuming seed investors were diluted 75% it’s more like a $10-12M valuation at the seed.
• nelsonic 4y ago
  Sad times. Figma could/should so easily have stayed independent. Clearly some VC needed a payday to buy a new yacht.
• homarp 4y ago
  The Story Behind My Investment In Figma (2015) - https://semilshah.com/2015/12/06/the-story-behind-my-investment-in-figma/ https://semilshah.com/2015/12/06/the-story-behind-my-investm...
• CharlesW 4y ago
  https://twitter.com/ShitUserStory/status/1570389286121250819 https://twitter.com/ShitUserStory/status/1570389286121250819
• nibbleshifter 4y ago
  RIP in Peace Ligma, I won't miss you at all, you sack of shit.
• random3 4y ago
  As an ex-Adobe employee (not a fanboy, no inside information whatsover) and a Figma addicted I'm happy for Adobe and Figma. I also believe this was a logical ending. I was wondering and actively discussing what Figma means to Adobe and happy to be right on my expectation on the number. This is Adobe's largest aquisition (its Whatsapp moment). Congrats to both. I wasn't the happiest employee, but I believe it's a great company for the creative kind and I wish both a good journey.
• Mobius01 4y ago
  You know who should be celebrating? Sketch and InVision. Sketch has signaled a desire to go multi platform, which has been a problem for large corporate customers with mixed platforms. InVision failed to standup their own UI design tool, but the collaboration suite is still good and they were starting to death spiral. This would be an immense opportunity for both to become the only viable immediate alternatives to the Adobe threat.
• deepzn 4y ago
• pc2g4d 4y ago
  Feels anticompetitive, and maybe even bad for Adobe as they prioritize acquisition over organic development.
• andrewcl 4y ago
  As much as folks may be unhappy Adobe is taking over Figma, I'm sure the team over at Figma are elated. It's a successful exit for a much loved company and I'm sure the hard working team that built such a fantastic product are being well rewarded by such a large acquisition.
  • blacklion 4y ago
    Why is exit so valuable? Ok, money, I understand, fair enough, if your goal is money, and not company and/or product. It is Ok. But I see contradiction between "much loved company" and "successful exit". Successful acquisition is death for "much loved company" or "much loved product" almost always. If your company/product is "much loved" (and created not because you are serial entrepreneur for whom exit IS THE goal, but because you want to create this exact product), acquisition is like selling you child to slavery, isn't it? Edit: grammar.
• nemrem 4y ago
• hn2017 4y ago
  I think it's hilarious how many libertarian-minded people want government to step in with an anti-trust lawsuit but in everything else, they want no involvment with government. hmm..
  • imbnwa 4y ago
    I mean this is HN, never forget the 'Netflix for Black People' thread
• nemrem 4y ago
  "Dark patterns" will be coming to Figma soon with this. I'd suggest anyone running an Adobe product to check your outgoing connections while running one and then trying to block them. It's not just isolated to their products. PMS doing "market research" for their products have led students on to do work for them without paying them. (For anyone skeptical on the accuracy of anything here, feel free to email me at the address in my bio, I'm happy to provide evidence)
• royandre 4y ago
  https://royandre.medium.com/goodbye-adobe-4f26fa48e28a https://royandre.medium.com/goodbye-adobe-4f26fa48e28a Let's hope Figma doesn't become the next Dreamweaver.
• brundolf 4y ago
  So what I'm hearing is there's a market opportunity to go rebuild Figma, just without being owned by Adobe
  • habitue 4y ago
    Yes!
  • quickthrower2 4y ago
    Can the Figma founder do that … eventually?
• binthere 4y ago
  I remember when they acquired Allegorithmic, Substance Painter went down hill since then.
• dexter89_kp3 4y ago
  Figma could have been much bigger than adobe in 5-10 years. Why not go public? Is the economic scenario so bad that they could not raise money?
  • majani 4y ago
    $20b is an offer nobody can refuse. Bird in hand and all that
• gautamdivgi 4y ago
  How is this not anti-trust? I’d be surprised if it doesn’t get caught in anti-trust issues in the EU.
• gigatexal 4y ago
  Here’s hoping Amy Klobuchar and the FTC and anyone else who wants to see competition blocks this sale.
• vic-traill 4y ago
  'Adobe acquires Figma for $20B using revenue from years of price increases e.g. [0] [0] 'Adobe has more than doubled the price of Creative Cloud in Australia since 2014 (2017)' https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2017/05/reminder-renew-your-adobe-cc-subscription-before-june-5-to-avoid-price-hikes/ https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2017/05/reminder-renew-your-ad...
• dudeinjapan 4y ago
  This is Aldus Superpaint all over again...
• sirjaz 4y ago
  Screw all of this SaaS needs to die a horrible death. All of these webapps/SaaS products are just data collection apps that can lock you out at any moment. We need to get back to owning our data and installing locally.
  • pcurve 4y ago
    Figma is one of the best examples of harnessing power of cloud to deliver value to end users. Without cloud, Figma's value as a tool goes down by 90%+ However, there's no reason why much of Adobe is cloud.
    • sirjaz 4y ago
      Figma's value is ease of use. You do not need the cloud for that. You do realize that most laptops, and especially workstations have more than enough power and storage to do what a web backend does.
    • Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
      What we need is a self-hosted Figma / Sketch alternative. Maybe https://penpot.app/ https://penpot.app/ will come and save this space from being devoured by Adobe?
• cwkoss 4y ago
  crap
• vlugorilla 4y ago
  Time to go for penpot then: https://penpot.app https://penpot.app
• mikefallen 4y ago
  Signed up for adobe trial to use a feature of it that was not included in the free version. Forgot to cancel during free period, tried to cancel subscription they wanted a 120$ early cancellation fee. Charged it back on my cc and blacklisted adobe from charging my cc ever again. Sad say for sigma users have always heard really good things from friends that use it.
• ineedasername 4y ago
  Oh well, so dies an amazing product to be locked up behind a massively customer-unfriendly organization. I'd even rather it have been acquired by Google where it could end up being graveyarded, there at least it would, if it survived, have been more easily available. I consider it for practical purposes no less survived now than if Google had killed it. Is there anyone who could have acquired them that would have been a better custodian for such a great product?
  • saos 4y ago
    Perhaps Apple
• pratikch1253 4y ago
  Any open source alternatives ? I know Framer is an option but is it as good as Figma ?
• ineedasername 4y ago
  I know Adobe is not really included in the typical anti-competitive criticism like some of the entrenched FAANG's, but this amounts to nothin less than what they do to stifle competition: Point to upstarts like Figma to justify an argument that "No, see? Competition is still possible!" But then buy out that competition to create a metastable state of: 1) dominance w/ noncom practices 2) -> disruption by a slight threat arises to threaten #1 market share 3) -> buyout of #2 4) -> return to to the desired state of #1
  • Lammy 4y ago
    They were also one of the companies complicit in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
• TruthWillHurt 4y ago
  Numbers lost all meaning...
• gavin_gee 4y ago
  Adobe really is just the Telco or siriusXM of software companies. complicated and dark pattern pricing models free subscription extension to avoid cancelling bundle installers of unrequested software like antivirus its all a sign that the product is over priced and there isnt enough new innovation
• synicalx 4y ago
  Very sad news, I guess at least they haven't bought Canva yet?
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• zac23or 4y ago
  $20B? It is fear that gives wings to men... And opens the pockets of companies.
• alexibravo 4y ago
  I’m incredibly disappointed to see this happening. Adobe has a history for stagnating products and really now that Figma has sold out, their team will naturally start looking for other projects to work on that the core members have life changing amounts of money and the pressure to innovate is off. They have beaten their primary competitor. It’s funny to see Wall Street’s reaction to this but they don’t understand how much Figma is eroding Adobe’s enterprise businesses. I filled in a survey a few months ago saying I have been using Illustrator and Photoshop less for basic tasks as Figma was so much faster for those. It also fixed the collaboration step. I as the CDO, had dozens of people across our SaaS company using Figma, including the CEO and COO who were using it to design all of their slide decks. At the same time in my side projects working with small product manufacturers and HR consultants I’ve got them using it too as the infinite canvas enables thinking that other established software doesn’t (MS Office, Google). Usually Adobe’s products are only in the design or maybe marketing departments. So Figma was eating out Adobe’s core whilst reaching strongly into other parts of a company that Adobe struggles to reach. The Wall Street types who think Figma was just a pandemic boosted product are blind to Figma’s true position. Just the simple fact that you don’t have to install anything and you have something that can do basic drawing and design tasks is huge. Congrats to the Figma team on cashing out but RIP in stagnation.
• naansequitur 4y ago
  The forward looking statements disclaimer at the end of their announcement post is such a sharp tone shift it's almost funny - https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/ https://www.figma.com/blog/a-new-collaboration-with-adobe/
• hactually 4y ago
  Time to back the open source alternatives - https://patreon.com/akiraux https://patreon.com/akiraux
• sunpazed 4y ago
  Adobe charged me an “early termination” fee of $43.99 after 6 years of continuous subscription! https://twitter.com/sunpazed/status/1561679328995250177 https://twitter.com/sunpazed/status/1561679328995250177 Support didn’t help, so I had to vent on Twitter before they refunded the amount. Not happy with their obscure and deliberately misleading subscription model.
• jaimex2 4y ago
  RIP Figma. Any alternatives?
• stall84 4y ago
• replwoacause 4y ago
  Wow, everyone hates Adobe now. I haven't used them since CS4 or CS5. Crazy how all companies turn to absolute shit when they get huge.
  • epolanski 4y ago
    At some point sales and marketing run the show.
• Reshav 4y ago
  6yk
• carlsborg 4y ago
  Evan Wallace, the technical co-founder who build the Figma rendering engine and vector editor, is a web UI craftsman par excellence. Check out https://madebyevan.com https://madebyevan.com .
• LarsDu88 4y ago
  Adobe ruined substance painter for me and they'll ruin figma for you!
• yaomtc 4y ago
  That's Figma the software, not Figma the figurines, for anyone else who got it mixed up
• hzay 4y ago
  I didn't know adobe was so hated. They're still my best example for software making. I'm not a designer, and three times in my life I've had design needs that I tried to solve using free (as in beer) software, and it just never worked well. Adobe always just worked and fast. First time was a book that had to be made ready for publication quickly (InDesign - my intro to paid adobe software), second time was 4k video editing (here I truly tried so many alternatives, free & paid), third time was basic motion graphics (after effects is brilliant and easy). Their software costs a lot of money though -- maybe their payment plans are what have made people bitter. I dislike the plans too. Maybe I came to adobe late, but I love their software. Out of all the shady organizations that charge my card when I don't expect it, I mind adobe the least.
• projectileboy 4y ago
  Acquisitions are great for founders, not so great for anyone else - especially the customers.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• sfmike 4y ago
  So who's starting on photopea for figma today?
• fruit2020 4y ago
  20bn for an app used by web designers. Is the market that big? Wow
• dabedee 4y ago
  What an absolute nightmare and what a slap in the face from the team at Figma if this goes through. Selling out doesn't begin to describe it.
• nikolay 4y ago
  This is such an outragous amount!
• nbzso 4y ago
  A controversial viewpoint: Figma is selling the user data - labeled design, all for training the next big AI killer app - prompt generated UI/UX design. Google had an interest, but Adobe upped the offer. Yes, I know this will be downvoted to hell:)
• danmur 4y ago
  I can hear the collective wailing of a million designers, like obi-wan when Alderaan got nuked
• elschneider 4y ago
  nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
• belter 4y ago
  There is no financial modeling, CEO vision, or new markets insights that can justify paying $20B, $10B or even $5B for Figma. The company is apparently not event profitable. The metrics tossed around of annual recurring revenue are the typical fools numbers used to blind people with too much paper money and little sense. Adobe seems to be playing the game IBM did a few years ago, but it wont fool investors for much longer. The only winners here are the VCs at the cost of Adobe investors, and I predict this will be the deal that will push out Adobe current management in the next two years. "Adobe plummets 15% after $20 billion deal to buy Figma and as earnings reveal soft 4th-quarter guidance" - https://sports.yahoo.com/adobe-plummets-15-20-billion-151612362.html https://sports.yahoo.com/adobe-plummets-15-20-billion-151612...
• RadixDLT 4y ago
  this sux
• idkwhoiam 4y ago
  RIP Figma. I can already see the Adobe installer coming back to my Mac, crazy pricing plans, etc, or the fate of Macromedia.
• dorianmariefr 4y ago
  I like Sketch :)
• fnl 4y ago
  Doesn’t this have to pass anti-competition regulations before it goes anywhere? And if it does, is it likely that it will pass?
• barrenko 4y ago
  Cheap.
• pers0n 4y ago
  XD will die, no matter what Adobe says. Funny thing is Adobe let Fireworks languish after acquiring Macromedia, which was a good tool as it was to do UI.
• maram 4y ago
  Everyone should remember that the blog Steve Jobs wrote criticizing Adobes security was deleted at the start of the pandemic in June, 2020. From the blog “Symantec recently highlighted Flash for having one of the worst security records in 2009. We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash. We have been working with Adobe to fix these problems, but they have persisted for several years now. We don’t want to reduce the reliability and security of our iPhones, iPods and iPads by adding Flash.“ Here is the discussion we had https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23654011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23654011