32 ms·

Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

• thrill 4y ago
  I think they should post salary minimums instead of a range - that huge range is just eye candy. Oh, but not enough people will be interested at the minimum? Then your minimum wasn't good enough and isn't actually the minimum.
  • zinckiwi 4y ago
    I like that. "If you get an offer, it won't be lower than X."
    • ronatory 4y ago
  • lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Why would you want less information than more information? A range is a minimum, plus more.
  • znpy 4y ago
    > Oh, but not enough people will be interested at the minimum? It's way worse than that. I recently had the displeasure of reading one of the dumbest thread of comments on a linkedin post because the job description did exactly that: mention the minimum salary. It was a job post for a "seo and social media manager" position which can mean a lot of things, can mean everything and can mean nothing, depending on many factors (eg: company size, number of customers). The (minimum) pay was 20 k€ (south europe). Everybody was looking at the number, no one had even considered it was the bare minimum and that maybe the original company was looking for some 20-something fresh out of high school, which no particular set of competencies.
    • Dylan16807 4y ago
      How long does it take to get competent at that? If it's not a very long time, then why shouldn't everyone get a somewhat similar pay range? Unless the plan is the hire that person out of high school and then rapidly ramp up their pay as they get good. > can mean everything and can mean nothing, depending on many factors (eg: company size, number of customers) If the position might not be full time, then that's an important consideration. But if it is full time it shouldn't matter how big the company is or how many customers there are or how much "nothing" there is.
    • Markoff 4y ago
      well the company should decide if they are looking for fresh graduates or experienced candidates then, judging by 20K seems more likely they don't wanna experienced people or dunno what they really want if they come up with such number
• barelysapient 4y ago
  It’s as simple as not proceeding past the initial 15 minute call without knowing the comp range of the role. Period. Bonus points if you also confirm I’d that’s W2 or 1099. That one has caught me a couple of times.
• Trias11 4y ago
  Nothing prevents you to ask about salary range at the very first conversation. Just specify that "depends on experience" or "we're competitive" or "industry standard" BS is not going to fly.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• mr90210 4y ago
  I use the same approach, save me time.
• fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
  The salary ranges are largely meaningless though? Equity compensation for good tech roles is like half or more. Also, levels.fyi has most salary information you could need.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • phphphphp 4y ago
    Equity compensation has meaningful value for a small minority of roles (i.e: at liquid companies) so for the majority of job seekers, salary is the compensation.
    • f6v 4y ago
      Yes, don’t be fooled by private company valuation.
    • frollo 4y ago
      It also depends a lot on the person. Like, I totally refuse equities as a compensation and thus would not consider any job with a salary under my minimum, even if the equities would bring the total compensation to an extremely high value.
    • noirbot 4y ago
      And for the most part, even if it's a lot of money, I can't pay my bills with RSUs or options. I may be willing to accept a bit lower cash salary if the equity numbers are huge, but I still need cash in my bank account to pay for things that is above some number per month.
  • JustSomeNobody 4y ago
    > Equity compensation The vast majority of developer jobs offer no equity comp.
  • eesmith 4y ago
    Colorado's already thought of that. https://cdle.colorado.gov/sites/cdle/files/INFO%20%239_%20Equal%20Pay%20Transparency%20Rules%20%28Revised%20July%202021%29.pdf https://cdle.colorado.gov/sites/cdle/files/INFO%20%239_%20Eq... > Compensation and Benefits to Disclose. Employers must include in each job posting (1) the rate of compensation (or a range thereof), including salary and hourly, piece, or day rate compensation; (2) a general description of any bonuses, commissions, or other compensation; and (3) a general description of all benefits the employer is offering for the position. Benefits that must be generally described include health care, retirement benefits, paid days off, and any tax-reportable benefits, but not minor “perks” like use of an on-site gym or employee discounts. At a minimum, employers must describe the nature of these benefits and what they provide, not specific details or dollar values — such as listing that the job comes with “health insurance,” without needing to detail premium costs or coverage specifics — and cannot use an open-ended phrase such as “etc.,” or “and more,” rather than provide the required “general description of all of the benefits
• donatj 4y ago
  > No need to waste time with 7 rounds of interviewing only to find out the salary is 50% of what I currently make. You can just ask at the end of the first interview. I've never had a problem doing so.
  • Clubber 4y ago
    I would ask before the interview process even starts. Actually I wouldn't, I would just skip like the OP.
  • praptak 4y ago
    I don't like having to ask.
    • 1270018080 4y ago
      Ok.
    • verdverm 4y ago
      what else do you not like but still have to do?
      • lazyasciiart 4y ago
        What makes you think he has to take jobs that don't tell him the salary upfront?
    • codegeek 4y ago
      Don't ask. Tell. "Hey just to ensure that we are on the same page, I am ideally looking for a minimum of $xyz/year. Is that in the range for this role ?". Then pause and wait for their response.
      • lucasmullens 4y ago
        That's one quick way to get exactly a salary of $xyz, and with the word "ideally" in there you're admitting you'd go slightly lower.
• carrozo 4y ago
  Remote job listings made up 18.4% of paid job postings on LinkedIn in May, attracting 53.5% of applications, up from 2.9% in January 2020, according to LinkedIn data. (Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-that-remote-job-opening-really-remote-check-the-fine-print-11656961532 https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-that-remote-job-opening-real...)
  • ThePadawan 4y ago
    Using LinkedIn as a source of data is completely pointless. I see the same exact position posted 20 times by the same 3rd party recruiter. I see positions posted as listed in Zurich with a title of "Software Engineer, Bangalore Office (relocation provided)" which is listed 30 times for the 30 biggest cities in the world. I see positions deleted and being re-created daily to pop up in job seeker's filters again. You could argue anything using this as data.
    • altdataseller 4y ago
      Yep, getting job statistics from Linkedin is a bad idea simply because Linkedin don’t track “unique” jobs.
      • pklausler 4y ago
        distinct*
        • KronisLV 4y ago
          Unique for the constraint, distinct for the select. :)
  • MaxHoppersGhost 4y ago
    Given the amount of people applying for fewer remote jobs one would think employers could/should start paying lower salaries for remote employees, if they haven’t already.
• yowlingcat 4y ago
  I don't think it's true that companies "can't hire". Many companies are freezing hiring for now given economic conditions, and the market equilibrium between supply and demand while still apparently candidate centric is nowhere near as favorable as it was a year ago, and the pendulum continues to swing the other way. Nonetheless, to your point, whether salary ranges are posted or not is likely a moot point. The truth is you might see anywhere near 50-100% dispersion for a role. Figure out what range or number you're looking for, see if they can offer it on the first call, and go from there. If you're really insistent on that as a prescreen, do what I did when I was in your shoes and use a platform like Hired that lets you prescreen offers. I just think that if I were you, I would be careful about having an attitude that implies "I know why you can't hire and you don't." The process you are in is much more similar to dating than it is to a standardized test being taken. Top hiring managers at top companies are not having trouble hiring (myself included) because they are not squeaky wheels. We're hiring silently, paying above market, getting inbound referrals. And similarly, top candidates are not having trouble sourcing multiple offers because they can command a premium (which was always the case for me when the shoe was on the other foot). My advice to you would be to rely on your skills and ability to get competing offers which you play against each other to do the heavy lifting of increasing your salary. Then it won't matter whether companies post salary ranges or not. If, on the off chance you aren't able to get multiple competing offers, then I think you have your work cut out for you and I would highly recommend to sharpen your interviewing abilities first as that will serve your career very well in the long run.
• NikolaNovak 4y ago
  Agree in principle. My approach would not be quite that categorical/binary though, for couple of reasons 1. Sometimes salary ranges are wide enough to not be meaningful - i.e. 80-200k 2. When I'm in the hiring manager role these days, there are roles for which I have limited to no flexibility; but also roles for which I have or can fight for flexibility for the right candidate. If I post e.g. (random numbers) 100-120 Croatian Lipa, for some roles that's hard limit, for others it's the middle section of a bell curve: If I get an exceptional candidate way at the tail of bell curve, I may be able to obtain exceptional compensation. (why not just post that in the first place? See #1. Answers/solutions are easy only if you don't consider enough questions/cases/consequences:). So if I were looking for a job (not currently), and I see a posting with an interesting role on a very interesting project at a supremely interesting company, I might approach the interview more as "open the door slightly, peak inside, and see what we can come up with for mutual benefit", rather than a strictly interpreted formal requirements description.
  • BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    >but also roles for which I have or can fight for flexibility for the right candidate Realistically this happens very little in the candidate's favor (they undervalue themselves and the employer decides to throw them a massive bone), which leaves cases where you initially lowballed them and they called you out on it / you realize throwing the lowball offer is not going to work. By forcing ranges, you're flipping the script. Odds are you'll quickly find out what prices these exceptional candidates are going for anyway. I agree it's not black-and-white, but you're largely arguing for your employer's convenience, not the candidate's.
  • lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > 1. Sometimes salary ranges are wide enough to not be meaningful - i.e. 80-200k It is always meaningful for a labor seller to know the lower bound.
  • schwartzworld 4y ago
    Are you saying that 2 different people could apply for the same (or equivalent) roles and you would actually pay one 2.5 times as much as the other for the same work?
• 1270018080 4y ago
  I ask in the recruiter phone screen. Maybe 5% of the time they deflect and don't give an answer but 95% is good enough for me.
• gdulli 4y ago
  The job I have now and am happy with, I would not have applied for if the "official" salary range had been published. What ultimately sold me were intangible things that I only discovered after being in a conversation with them. And it turned out there was enough other flexibility for things to fall into place. The range is often a leaky abstraction anyway. As a hiring manager I've wanted flexibility for the right candidates. As a candidate I've wanted to know that comp is more personalized than arbitrarily capped by a bureaucratic process.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• ElijahLynn 4y ago
  This is true. I respond to most recruiters now that I won't even talk to them without a salary range. And then they send it right over.
  • ThePadawan 4y ago
    I personally find that 90% of the responses I get to salary requests are: "I would love to chat to you on the phone about this on the phone with you!" "How dare you ask me that, you should be thankful for me even writing to you with this incredibly vague offer in the first place." I tried responding to ~20 recruiters with a copy-pasted question about salary, and none responded with anything even close to a salary range, only the responses above. Needless to say, I have simply given up responding to recruiters at all.
    • AnimalMuppet 4y ago
      There are a few that are worth dealing with, and a large number that aren't. When you stumble into the few, even if you aren't looking, take note of who they are. You may want them later.
      • ThePadawan 4y ago
        I'm glad to hear it. I'll keep watching out for the first.
    • conro1108 4y ago
      I have a similar approach that works well, you just need one more filtering step. Anyone who reacts negatively to the salary request, you ignore and move on. Don't even bother replying. For the "lets hop on a call" folks, I have a second copy-paste that just politely states that my schedule is tight between interviewing and my day job and that I want to ensure a reasonable fit is possible before investing a lot of time. Anyone who _still_ hasn't given a clear answer after those 2 tries I stop replying to. To be clear, well north of 90% of inbound linkedin recruiters will fail this test, but I've found it to be a surprisingly low-effort way to separate valid opportunities from uninteresting recruiter spam
• hyperrail 4y ago
  https://www.coloradoexcluded.com/ https://www.coloradoexcluded.com/ <- last year, when this requirement began, several companies started refusing to accept job applications from Colorado residents to avoid having to post salary ranges, and someone made this webpage to name and shame these employers. It seems to have been less active lately, but based on what you say, that may not be because employers are responding to the incentive...
  • bonestamp2 4y ago
    That's a great site. I've also noticed in the last couple months, many jobs (although not most), have started to list salaries for Colorado employees. It's a good ballpark for the rest of us at least, and I like this trend. I post the salary range for all the jobs that I list because it's a waste of everyone's time if we don't meet each other's expectations on some of those important points before investing more time in finding the right fit. Recruiters don't like to post the salary range because they want to have a phone call with every candidate. There may have been a time when that made sense for them, but that time is not now. The job market is not the used car lot it used to be.
  • reaperducer 4y ago
    I think that web site is out of date. I clicked on a few, and the companies are still hiring Colorado people. For example, clicking through the Accenture link to a job listing shows: "As required by Colorado law under the Equal Pay for Equal Work Act, Accenture provides a reasonable range of compensation for roles that may be hired in Colorado. Actual compensation is influenced by a wide array of factors including but not limited to skill set, level of experience, and specific office location. For the state of Colorado only, the range of starting pay for this role is $112,000-$134,000 and information on benefits offered is here."
  • kxyvr 4y ago
    How well is this law actually enforced? As an example, I quickly pulled a physician job at a random HCA hospital in Denver: https://careers.hcahealthcare.com/jobs/9031565-pulmonary-slash-critical-care-opportunity-in-downtown-denver-co https://careers.hcahealthcare.com/jobs/9031565-pulmonary-sla... I see no salary ranges. I pulled some other medical jobs as well and it seems moderately random if they list anything at all. Really, I may be misunderstanding the law and what information is supposed to be disclosed, but the larger hospitals and medical groups in Colorado mostly don't post salary ranges.
• jstx1 4y ago
  > Most jobs on nation-wide job boards do not post a salary range. I will not even click on those job postings. It's simply not worth it. Not everyone is like you. I don't think that you can generalize based on the criteria you use to filter out companies.
  • myself248 4y ago
    Yeah, but there's an adage in customer service that for every customer who tells you what's wrong, ten more walked out without saying anything. That may apply here. Personally, I'm 100% on board with OP's point. I've been putting out feelers lately, and I likewise interpret an unstated salary range as a warning sign. Who knows if they speak for the majority, but they're certainly not alone.
• dingosity 4y ago
  Complicating things here is the fact companies like Amazon top up their compensation with stock grants (or maybe ISOs, it's been a while since I worked there.) So you see a job offer from Amazon that says the salary range for a SDE I is $85k-$160k, but I'm pretty sure they would low-ball you on salary but give you a stock grant that might be worth $80k over 4 years if AMZN stock holds its value. I think my point is... yes... it is very cool companies are posting salary ranges more often now. But it's just the beginning of the evaluation process. Bonuses, options, grants, etc. aren't listed and could be valuable.
  • Dayshine 4y ago
    Companies like amazon... So, what, maybe 100 companies out of tens or hundreds of thousands? Why even bother talking about it.
  • trinovantes 4y ago
    It's even worse when you realize most of that stock is paid in years 3-4 whereas a lot of people don't last past year 2
• simontheowl 4y ago
  For most companies, you can tell them what your expected salary range is during the first round of phone screens or meetings - no need to wait till the end. The HR represenative should be able to tell you right there and then whether they are comfortable with that number or not. The biggest tip is to know what your market worth is so that expectations of both parties align.
• kokanator 4y ago
  We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion, salary is a sign of respect from you employer. If your primary reason for responding to an ad is based upon salary you are not going to be happy where you work. I promise. Of the top reasons people are happy at work, salary is way down on the list. [0] It is important, it makes it possible to pay bills, but it isn't what makes people happy. Meaning, if you are looking for a place you will enjoy working, do not start with salary. [0]https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobmorgan/2014/12/15/the-top-10-factors-for-on-the-job-employee-happiness/?sh=4c9a9f45afa7 https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobmorgan/2014/12/15/the-top-...
  • shikoba 4y ago
    > Of the top reasons people are happy at work, salary is way down on the list. My gosh :face_palm:
  • bilsbie 4y ago
    Keep in mind it’s really easy to trick yourself into believing the salaries you’re offering are aggressive. I bet 80% of companies would say they have above average salaries.
    • kokanator 4y ago
      All our salaries are based upon most recent data assembled by market across the country and, in the case of this round of hiring, +10% to deal with the current inflation conditions. So, I am not just 'saying'. I have data. Careful research goes into making sure our employees are paid in pace or exceeding the market.
      • jddddd 4y ago
        K, then how much? List the number or you're just blowing smoke
• cygned 4y ago
  We don’t post salary ranges right now. We are a small firm and cannot keep up with the salaries from enterprises in our area. We are looking for (and finding) candidates that are willing to sacrifice parts of their salary for 100% remote, flexible work time, PTO and others. We decided to screen applicants in an informal phone call and discuss salary options at the end, after they had a first impression of how we are as a firm.
  • ivraatiems 4y ago
    Why not post the range and say what you just said?
    • cygned 4y ago
      Concern was that it still turns down too many, maybe we were too careful. We have another vacant position soon, I might try it.
      • csomar 4y ago
        Why do you want to mislead these people in the first place? The advert has a role in filtering, and in turning down many people you are avoiding wasting time both for you and the potential candidate.
      • ivraatiems 4y ago
        Give it a try. I've taken a lower paying job in exchange for a better experience. It happens!
      • cweagans 4y ago
        You should! Not everyone wants to work as a cog in the giant enterprise machine. I've taken a lower salary from a small company specifically because they are small. I would caution you against the "willing to sacrifice parts of their salary for 100% remote, flexible work time, PTO and others." mindset though. 100% remote, flexible work time, PTO, and other benefits are not added bonuses at this point: they are the minimum requirements for many positions/prospective employees. Instead, focus on the selling the qualities of your workplace that make people happy to work there (for instance, work/life balance, no red tape/micromanagement, creative freedom on solutions, interesting problems to solve, etc).
• projectazorian 4y ago
  Just ask in the initial phone screen. Say you won't entertain roles below <your number here> and you don't want to waste everyone's time. Usually recruiters appreciate this and if they can't give you the number themselves they will check with the hiring manager. Some people say this reduces your negotiating leverage because it reveals your hand too much. I try to get around this by making clear it's a minimum, not a maximum, and anything other than stellar equity/benefits/WLB will require even higher base
  • ejb999 4y ago
    I always ask salary range before I even apply, and especially before I share a resume - like the OP, I don't want to waste my time (or the recruiters time) doing the dance only to find out they are not even close to what I need to consider a move.
  • lowbloodsugar 4y ago
    Some people say this because it's true. This is an ineffective negotiating tactic. You shouldn't accept anything less than stellar equity/benefits/WLB. But if you do, now you are in the position of saying "Well, your equity/benefits/WLB suck, so I want more money." There's no positive way to spin that. You look like an ass and are negotiating from weakness. I tell them exactly what number I'm looking for. Saves everybody a bunch of time. Yes, my current job I got what I asked for.
    • projectazorian 4y ago
      > But if you do, now you are in the position of saying "Well, your equity/benefits/WLB suck, so I want more money." "The equity/benefits/WLB you describe aren't consistent with what I was expecting. I'll need higher base if this is going to work." Salary is not the only part of a compensation package. If other parts of the package pencil out, great, if not, you're within your right to ask for more salary. Some employers have more flexibility on salary, others might be more flexible in other areas. This is a very common negotiating technique; if you can't reach agreement on one point, expand the negotiating space. Anyone who would be offended by the above worth working with anyway. > There's no positive way to spin that. You look like an ass and are negotiating from weakness. If you think negotiation is about what party can project dominance the most, you don't have a clue about negotiation. You're not haggling for cab fare, you're establishing the terms of a relationship that will continue for years if things go well, and in those situations you want to be collaborative rather than adversarial. This will pay dividends down the road.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• bayareabadboy 4y ago
  I feel completely the opposite. Why would I apply for a job with an upper limit of a salary range? That doesn’t really make sense to me. Also it’s an incredibly easy thing to sus out in a phone screen.
• beowulfey 4y ago
  Applying (or hiring) for jobs is just like online dating. If there is something that stands out about you that may be an important factor in someone finding you appealing, it is worthwhile to be clear about it up front. If someone does care about it, they will pass on you, but you will get overall higher quality candidates from those who don’t mind or don’t rank the property as highly. It saves everyone time this way. I am a short man, and I have firsthand experience in this by posting my height on my dating profile. I got fewer matches when I did, but those who matched after were always way better dates!
  • zach_garwood 4y ago
    Haha, I put this on my profile, too!
• sroussey 4y ago
  Listed price vs Call for Quote
• shazami 4y ago
  What use are salary ranges when a majority of compensation is equity-based?
  • bigbillheck 4y ago
    Hard to pay the mortgage with equity.
  • JJMcJ 4y ago
    For most jobs that is not true.
• 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  I put all companies without listed salary at the bottom of the pile. No salary listed means the company assumes candidates will see the low pay, and will see nothing else of value in the job, and skip it. Which means the company thinks it doesn't provide competitive value as an employer. Why work for a company that doesn't believe in itself?
• gsibble 4y ago
  My former employer had a lot of trouble hiring and getting applicants even though we paid very high wages. They asked for my help. Naturally, they hadn't posted the salary range. I changed up the listing to talk about what we provided as a company for the employee and why we were such a great place to work and included our high salaries. We immediately had trouble keeping up with the number of applicants. If you pay well, they will come.
  • upupandup 4y ago
    In Canada, there is this weird faux pas where asking for market rate gets you flagged for a position that requires in reality less than 4 years of experience require significantly more as it is very much still a employer's market. (4 year experience job requires now 8~10 year exp without the salary to reflect this) I can see significant strains in hiring because of this cultural backward thinking. If you don't list your salary range, you simply won't get applicants other than the truly desperate. If you don't offer a competitive market rate you are not going to find quality people or very motivated workers. It's no surprise that Canada has massive brain drain, especially in the West Coast. Those that stay, like to gaslight and come up with a dozen reasons why a haircut is justified to live in the warm part of Canada. In the long run, Canada is absolutely going to lose relevancy economically. 1 out of 5 immigrants leave in the first 4 years, record number of Canadians/PR are leaving Canada permanently.
    • BlargMcLarg 4y ago
      Not unique to Canada at all, FWIW. Demanding top level skills while paying market rate at best has been going on for years now. Employers just don't want to change, and a lot of candidates are still accepting the circumstances. Especially noticeable with the whole cloud + microservices + event queue craze, since very few companies do anything with this yet, so few people actually accrue the knowledge they require, and most projects where the benefits of these shine are not projects individuals will tend to pick up.
      • upupandup 4y ago
• mkl95 4y ago
  Spammers != headhunters. The former tend to post low effort, programmatic crap and may not be allowed to give straight answers to your $$ questions. The latter will offer you an above market salary range up front, and then help you negotiate a higher number during the hiring process. Know who you are dealing with.
• TedShiller 4y ago
  Salary range is $60,000-$250,000
• m348e912 4y ago
  I am currently working with a friend who is searching for remote tech jobs. I even went through the internal job board at my company. No salary ranges posted anywhere. And while I agree salary should not be a top priority when looking at a position, it does answer one interesting question. Am I qualified for this position. You would think a job description would answer that question. But most people already know that job descriptions are wish lists, not requirements. Pay range really tells me how qualified an applicant needs to be.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• tomg 4y ago
  I don’t mean this to sound snarky but I fear it might. Earnestly: If a job looks interesting, why not just email and ask? If the position actually excites you, surely it’s worth a couple minutes of your time?
  • Markoff 4y ago
    aka why not waste time of dozen people instead providing answer in the first place, I really hate this attitude
• johnchristopher 4y ago
  That title is misleading. Reading that blog post it should really be "Tell HN: You can't hire me because you don't post salary ranges" or "Tell HN: I don't apply for jobs without salary ranges".
  • Markoff 4y ago
    isn't it same any way you look at it?
    • johnchristopher 4y ago
      Definitely not.
• nineplay 4y ago
  I live in a higher COL area than Colorado and their salary ranges help me in only that I expect to get paid more. I'm not sure if that's what Colorado wants.
• bertil 4y ago
  I could try to ask companies to list their salary but it’s a fight I’m not going to win, at least not alone. So instead, I stay mine. The vast majority of any applications for me for the last 10 years have started with an incoming message from a recruiter (usually external, very often not engaged by the company). To filter out irrelevant conversations, I respond “Thank you for your interest” and I immediately put: * my current detailed compensation, * that I am very happy where I am. Most conversations stop there. Several recruiters include the range, but it’s usually half to a third of my current compensation. A lot of recruiters assume they can just take the first number and compare that to the total compensation — that’s an easy filter too. I don’t think it’s a great situation to have my compensation so easily available, but I have regularly refused offers with higher base numbers because the conditions were not there –– a counter-productive bonus structure, or more recently, no remote option; that last one is worth +50% to me, and many recruiters don’t like when I tell them that.
  • joezydeco 4y ago
    I like the cut of your jib, I'm going to try that with unsolicited recruiters for a while and see what happens. I've been getting pings over the last two years and if I can get them to a range, it's routinely 80% of my current comp and that never changes. Nobody is getting the idea that you need something to attract talent away from a current job to hire for a new one. There's no salesmanship in this at all.
    • bertil 4y ago
      I’ve had many recruiters think they can try to sell me on the job _after_ I’ve told them it would be half of my compensation… And, look, I’d love to join a Series A start-up that offers a ton of early stock in a promising idea; I’m typically the rare profile that would happily discuss that, with a spreadsheet and all. But those are almost always meat-by-the-slice “agencies” with no bonus structure. I’m really taken aback by the glib of those recruiters.
      • joezydeco 4y ago
        A good hunk of them are just lazy. Just yesterday I had a lackluster job description sent to me by someone I've talked to before, and my rejection was just a boring. He had a small amount of motivation to ask what was wrong and I told him there's nothing in this JD that is interesting at all. His response: "Well, that's what the client sent to me." What the fuck value are you adding to this transaction at all, then?
• theknocker 4y ago
• Justsignedup 4y ago
  Every recruiter that reaches out gets my same copy-pasted response, which includes "what are the responsibilities" and "what is the salary range of this position" which often ends with "sorry, not looking to take a pay cut".
• kif 4y ago
  For some companies, giving a compensation range, e.g. $150k-$200k, would most likely create turmoil internally. Imagine Bob has many years in that role, and makes $160k. If I were Bob, I'd have a conversation with HR as to why I'm on the low end of the range.
  • joshstrange 4y ago
    Good for "Bob"? Bad on HR for trying to keep talent at the lowest price they can away with. I'm not willing to accept this as a valid "excuse", it just tells me your company is shitty. Bob /should/ take that info and either get a raise or leave for a place that values his work.
  • jen20 4y ago
    Good. That’s what it should do.
• danbrooks 4y ago
  I have no problem applying for jobs without a salary range. I typically ask in the first recruiter call.
• godelski 4y ago
  On the [Who's Hiring] threads we used to upvote those that listed salary and downvoted those that didn't to signal to companies that this is vital information (it saves everyone time). Is this something we should start doing again? We could also put this in the template.
• joshstrange 4y ago
  This is a huge pet peeve of mine. I one interviewed for a local place and at the very start, first interview, I asked for the salary range and was told "We are very flexible". Against my better judgement I went ahead and did the rest of the interview and later that night they sent me an offer... for ~$30K under what I was making. I emailed them back and told them the number I was looking for and they effectively said "Oh, well we aren't /that/ flexible". Thankfully this was only 1 interview but I can't imagine going through multiple rounds only to find the pay isn't going to work. There are jobs I pass over because my first thought is "Ehh, I bet that place/job/position doesn't pay well" but I have no way of knowing. I have a limited amount of time I'm willing to spend looking for a new job and going through multiple full interview processes is not high on my list of things I want to do. I absolutely hate having to take that "leap of faith" when starting an interview process. It's absurd that we don't demand that companies post what they are willing to pay. Also, let's not kid ourselves. There is 1 and only 1 reason why companies don't post this and it's greed. Period, end of sentence. There is no other reason. It's either because they don't want internal people to know what they are hiring at and/or because they want to try to get a developer for the lowest price possible.
• websap 4y ago
  Listing salary ranges is bad for employees because it limits upside from negotiation. Like everything it's just a trade-off between capping your downside and limiting your upside.
  • godelski 4y ago
    I got a solution. > Position pays 100k+ depending on experience. Solved. Or potentially > Position pays 100k-130k+, depending on experience If a company isn't getting applicants, boost that baseline.
    • codegeek 4y ago
      Most candidates overestimate their ability. No one would like to hear that they should get the lower end of the range because well they didn't deserve the higher range.
      • godelski 4y ago
        > Position pays 80-130k+ depending on experience but no one actually makes under 100k and 80 is only here to make you feel better Solved.
  • jasonladuke0311 4y ago
    That’s like saying unions suck because Conor McGregor or Lebron James won’t make as much as they do now.
  • ManlyBread 4y ago
    I have successfully managed to negotiate higher than the supposed maximum. I applied for a regular SE role and when I stated my expectations the recruiter said that this is over 10% more than the maximum. I stated that if I go any lower than that I will have no reason to switch companies. He offered some sort of a signing bonus (which was rather small) and the promise of quickly getting into a more senior role, which would put me in a higher pay range. I didn't budge. They came back 3 days later and actually offered me the senior role, the pay I wanted and a signing bonus that was 4x what previously offered and I accepted.
• andsoitis 4y ago
  Salary or total comp?
• Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  While I agree that the information should be there, I've had some success with asking "do you have a salary range you can share with me". Some quickly give a range, a few will reply "well... it depends" and about half dodge the question or ignore it. Most of the "well... it depends" group will end up giving a range if communication stops. The ones that completely refuse, well, that's part of their corporate culture and they'll have to deal with the shrinking pool of candidates who are willing to invest time in the hiring process without knowing the compensation range.
• alexfromapex 4y ago
  Or the hiring engineers are holding candidates to insanely high standards that they themselves couldn’t be held to. I did a 4.5 hour interview with Capital One where I had to design a full system diagram from a text description. I thought I did great on it because I’ve done it several times in previous roles for real. Then with a different interviewer I had to solve a Python challenge which I passed and then was asked to explain the Big O value for my algorithm which again I did successfully and then I was repeatedly asked if I would change anything with my solution. They probably wanted me to find a log n time solution with low memory usage in like 45 minutes when the algorithm itself was hard to figure out. Then I had a behavioral interview where they use sneaky questions to subjectively decide if you’re going to be a jerk based on your previous work situations which I don’t even remember after a few months. All of this was live over video after already successfully completing a coding exercise. I mean the caliber of person for these basic jobs would have to be insanely talented, invest tons of time interviewing, and then they don’t want to pay you a lot.
  • taude 4y ago
    Dont mold your interview process after a FAANG, if you're not going to offer FAANG money and incentives.
    • wyclif 4y ago
      This is precisely what you should filter out: 2nd-tier non-FAANG companies who have obviously and unthinkingly adopted SV/FAANG interview processes and expectations when they aren't required.
      • whimsicalism 4y ago
        On the flip side, I think people assume that FAANG process is easier than it is so when they see any leetcode style question process they assume it is "FAANG expectation" when it might be an easier question.
  • pridkett 4y ago
    That’s basically the same process that Capital One has had for hiring for years. It doesn’t seem like that was tweaked because of the pandemic and remote work.
• commandlinefan 4y ago
  Let's be honest about salary ranges, though - posting two different numbers is a meaningless nod to convention. Everybody who applies ignores the low number and expects the high number (maybe a little more, because they're "that good").
  • kitsunesoba 4y ago
    I would argue that the lower number is meaningful if the posting in question entertains hiring zero or low experience candidates (e.g. fresh undergrads) for the role. In that situation I would think that most applicants matching that description would be happy to get a salary on the lower end (within reasonable limits of course) since at that stage in one's career the biggest challenge is getting one's foot in the door. In my experience there aren't many postings like that though, most are looking for at least moderate levels of experience in which case I would agree that the upper end tends to be the expectation.
  • jeroenhd 4y ago
    My expectations are very much the exact opposite. When a company posts a range, especially a large range, I expect them to at least pretend that the lowest end of the scale is the best they'll give during salary negotiations. Companies, and companies people trying to hire you, have an incentive to get you the worst deal you will agree with. That said, ranges are still nice to have. I'd much rather have an estimate below expectations than another company saying they offer "competitive wages". Competitive just means "what you earn right now, or worse".
• stutsmansoft 4y ago
  I agree that salary ranges are needed. I would add though, "leetcode" is also why companies struggle to hire. I avoid outright companies who use this as a filter, and cut the process short if I encounter it along the way. Prima donna? Sure. But I believe quite strongly these things measure memorized puzzles, not skills.
  • kitsunesoba 4y ago
    Personally I'm more willing to go along with leetcode for FAANG-type giants, simply because in that situation it's more of a filtering mechanism than anything. I still dislike it but I understand why it's there. For startups and small-to-midsize companies however which typically aren't awash in candidates for technical roles leetcode makes little sense and I generally won't entertain it.
• tmp_anon_22 4y ago
  Every interview screen I've had in the last few years has been an opportunity to discuss salary before getting into the more grueling technical stages of the pipeline. Yes a screen call is annoying especially if you have a current work schedule but it really isn't that inefficient considering the phone screen is also the ideal medium to pick apart other aspects of the company and its constraints.
  • derwiki 4y ago
    A phone screen is fine for that other stuff, but why invest even 30 minutes if you know they won’t pay what you are looking for?
• BigOlThangs 4y ago
  I send an e-mail and ask "for a friend." Works every time. Unless they are low balling the range and then they are only hurting themselves.
• rich_sasha 4y ago
  It's a tough problem from a game theory point of view. The company wants to hire someone who wants the job, is paid within (below?) budget, and so on. They'll also try to pay you less if they can. If they publish the salary range, there goes the chance to pay you less. If the salary is low, you cut out people who might like the job but won't even consider it. The company might like them enough to pay more, too. Employees don't want to waste time on jobs where they wouldn't take the pay. I suspect not publishing salaries is a Nash equilibrium. Might not be great but you converge to it anyway.
• jeffmcmahan 4y ago
  I agree with OP 100%. I once went through multiple rounds, got an offer only to discover they wanted to pay me tens of thousands less than I was already making. I'll never engage another company about a job without knowing the salary info ahead of time.
• franze 4y ago
  In Austria we have a law that ever jobposting must have a minimum salary and if the company is open to overpay. It lead to lower entry positions salaries. Because they are too afraid to push for what they are worth (as they dont know it) and the salary "is already posted".
• dotdi 4y ago
  More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upfront about what my salary expectations were (wasn't looking for a raise, just a lateral move). They said we discuss salary when you meet the founders, i.e. the last step before getting hired, but they also didn't tell me that my range was way off. Turns out I had played this 9 week game and turned down other offers just to be severely low-balled by them. Maybe they saw that I really wanted the position and thought they could get away with a low offer. Obviously, I rejected their offer on the spot. I also promised myself to never, _ever_, be fooled like that again. We talk money before I invest any significant amount of time or I walk.
  • onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    This is exactly why. Interviewing can easily eat up 2-3 days of your life. You only get 15-30 days of vacation per year. Theoretically, you are working to have free time. This is maybe 1/5th of your free time per year. You can't waste this on unknowns. Give me the salary up front or p#$$ off.
    • dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
      >Give me the salary up front or p#$$ off. Good to see someone do this. I do this.
    • maxwell 4y ago
      > You only get 15-30 days of vacation per year. This is why I'm glad to have "unlimited" PTO (subject to manager approval + must be requested at least the duration in advance, e.g. 2 weeks notice for 2 weeks off), along with a few annual company-wide breaks and an earned month-long break every 3 years.
      • briffle 4y ago
• rapht 4y ago
  From an employer's point of view there are many good reasons not to state a salary range, the 2 most obvious ones being: - once you state clearly what your max is, why would your preferred candidate settle for anything less? - why would you want to exclude good candidates willing to accept lower comp than what you thought your min was? So then some places are a candidate's market... well maybe employers have to adapt, but I can see why they would not want to.
• mgraczyk 4y ago
  I don't think that leaving it out of the job posting would ever prevent me from pursuing a role. If I'm interested in a job, I ask for the compensation range. If they don't tell me, then I will not pursue the role. Personally my other requirements like field and company are much better ways to narrow the search than salary.
• nibbleshifter 4y ago
  If there's no salary range listed, I usually don't apply.
• t_mann 4y ago
  Interesting, I know of a place where the same law had pretty much the opposite effect: every company pretty much just posts sth like "The minimum salary for this position is 35k/year, but we will overpay based on qualification". In reality, they'll easily pay 2-3x that amount, but my suspicion is that the law had an overall downward effect on salaries (especially at the junior end - being offered 1.5x the advertised amount might feel like a great offer if you don't have a good idea of the market).
• twawaaay 4y ago
  In decades of interviewing and hiring developers I have not seen an actual difference coming from posting salary ranges. I tried many different versions of this. As a candidate, I do not apply to a thousand different places. I find 3-4 where I would want to work and I do my research before I even apply. I know what they can pay me before I get to talk to them. As an interviewer I try to stay away from candidates that spray and pray. They probably don't care where they work -- usually a bad sign (except for positions where it truly doesn't matter). They probably also have a problem finding a job -- do I want to play the expensive game of finding out why? When I meet the candidate the first time, I usually ask if they had a chance to look at our website. I have never hired a person that did not (somehow being disinterested prevents people from being good at what they are doing). More than that, as a candidate your bargaining power is lowest at the beginning of the process and highest at the end when they had a chance to get to know you and really want to hire you. And if this is not happening, don't get hired. If you made barely passable impression on your new boss but got hired because they needed a warm body in the chair, your career at the company is almost over before it got even started. First impressions matter and self-fulfilling prophecies are real. And again, as an interviewer, posting salary ranges is a loose loose for me. If you have posted a range, there is couple of things happening. First, you are loosing ALL candidates that you would gladly pay more than the posted salary range, but now that they see the range they say "Meh" to your posting. Second, everybody expects to get salary close to the top of the range and will be forever unhappy if they do not. So it is more like you have posted an exact salary you are paying and rather than be flexible you can now pretty much only decide to hire or not hire for this salary.
  • jsdwarf 4y ago
    Your "loose-loose" problem can be easily addressed. Simply post two ads - one for a Developer, one for Senior Developer, Senior Developer range being x000 USD higer than dev range. If mediocre candidates apply for Senior, tell them that you can only offer them the dev Position because they lack qualification x. Vice versa, you can "promote" great dev candidates to the senior dev position. In the end, nobody forces you to hire both.
    • 4y ago
• chrismarlow9 4y ago
  If they don't bring it up in the first meeting I will. It's mutually beneficial for both parties not to waste time if the numbers don't work. If they absolutely refuse to give me any range I tell them I don't think it will work and go look somewhere else. It's not the only thing I care about, but it is a make or break item. Part of my life is having financial goals I want to meet, the same as any business. Sure I have passions and things I want to do to help the world, the same as any business. But if the numbers don't work I need to find a different way or pivot so that they do (again, the same as any business). A more pessimistic view is refusing to give me a range upfront (even if the gap is large like 90k-300k) tells me they're betting on me giving into the sunken cost fallacy at the end of the rounds. That's not someone I'd want to work for anyway.
• eranation 4y ago
  Salary ranges are great, and I think it indeed can save time for some job seekers (as well as employers) but on a side note, regardless of posting salary ranges, sometimes you want to hire people who do not only look for a better pay. Sometimes you can't pay better, and sometimes you know you can only pay worse (e.g. a seed stage startup) and all you can offer is - interesting problems to solve, culture, upside, vision, working with other crazy people who took a pay cut to try and move the needle and make a bigger impact.
  • frant-hartm 4y ago
    Then post the lower salary range and save yourself and the candidates who won't work for that kind of money the time.
• sour-taste 4y ago
  Just a note: in California you have the right to request a salary range after your first interview, and the company is forbidden from asking your salary history. When they ask you what you want, give a big number and negotiate from there!
  • equalpayact 4y ago
    https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/california_equal_pay_act.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/california_equal_pay_act.htm
• fab13n 4y ago
  I believe the reason they don't post salary ranges isn't to lure new hires into underpaid positions, at least not primarily. it's in order to avoid renegotiation with current employees, who may have negotiated a less favorable deal, under different circumstances or because they can't haggle.
• mattlondon 4y ago
  +1 "Competitive salary" = mediocre.
• civilized 4y ago
  Yep - as a top-tier passive candidate in data science, I swipe left on job postings and recruiter emails that don't provide a salary range upfront. Interviews are an enormous investment of time and effort these days. I won't go through one unless I'm extremely confident I can come out with the offer I want.
• seti0Cha 4y ago
  Maybe it's just where I am in my career, but I prefer to have some discussion before talking salary. I don't tend to look for $job, I look at specific jobs that look interesting to me. If it looks good I talk to them and see if they'd be willing to pay what I'd want to get to do it. I've had places go back and get approval to offer more so they could meet my requirements and I've taken jobs with lower offers because they looked more fun. If they'd posted a salary range, we probably wouldn't ever have talked in the first place. Maybe people find it hard to ask for what they want, or are worried they won't ask as much as the employer is willing to give? To me the salary range things more limiting than empowering.
• ChuckMcM 4y ago
  I think this is excellent progress (posting ranges) and I've made a habit of always telling candidates I'm interviewing right up front what the range is so that I don't waste their time (or mine!). It really is just good business. That said, I want to make an observation here on this part of the comment by Carrok: > I am currently job hunting. I started looking locally, everything lists salary ranges, perfect. I can know which positions to skip and which ones might be a good match right away. This is indeed a feature, but there is a trap here as well. I have watched a number of engineers who join a company that gives annual raises. They stay at that company for > 10 years and their salary is very comfortable for them. Then they decide to change jobs and the salary range for their current role with no history at the company is significantly less than they are currently making. As you get more senior experienced, it is important to consider that there are two components of your "worth"; The skills you bring to the job is kind of your intrinsic value, and the knowledge of how to get things done at this company is a value "add-on." You lose that add-on when you start at a new company. If you've been hopping from job to job every couple of years that won't be a significant issue for you but if you've been somewhere for 5+ years it could be, so keep that in mind while looking around.
• zemo 4y ago
  > No need to waste time with 7 rounds of interviewing only to find out the salary is 50% of what I currently make. I'm currently interviewing and this has come up in the first-round phone screen stage with everyone I've talked to.
• timcavel 4y ago
  [dead]
• WalterBright 4y ago
  > No need to waste time with 7 rounds of interviewing only to find out the salary is 50% of what I currently make. No reason why you cannot ask up front what the salary range is.
• OJFord 4y ago
  Also, to recruiters: non-desperate candidates are not interested in your semi-coherent description of what 'the stack includes' if you don't mention the company name. (Maybe if it's something really niche? But I receive things like 'you seem like a great fit for this python position'.. yeah, maybe, but that could be anywhere. I'm not interested 'because python'.)
• lr 4y ago
  Given the number of upvotes this has, and I would guess, too, that people who upvote a story don't always comment, I would say there is pretty strong agreement with posting salaries. Like, everyone, just get over yourselves, and post salaries. Then we can go on to debating other aspects of hiring, work culture, work-life balance, etc. I am not saying that to diminish the salary thing, but of all of the issues surrounding hiring and working somewhere, the posting of salaries seems like a no-brainer.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• jiveturkey 4y ago
  > No need to waste time with 7 rounds of interviewing only to find out the salary is 50% of what I currently make. You never need to do that. In 2022, you lead your very first call with that information.
• Joel_Mckay 4y ago
  When tasked with new hires, I was often biased by startup-culture to make sure everyone was fed at my table. However, this also led to overpaying inexperienced kids with senior level salaries, and often incurred a lack of work ethic from some (money makes some people stupid). In general, we found firing the counter-productive after 1 month was the most effective means at reminding everyone of their obligations, as handing out pay cuts and manipulative antics just fosters resentment. If someone appears purely motivated by compensation packages, than you can be sure they belong in a bureaucratic process rather than a development team. Likewise, companies that try to cost optimize labor for a fixed-cost project have doomed themselves to be crushed by competitors.
  • whimsicalism 4y ago
    You sound like someone I would never want to work with and certainly for. Tenure is not equivalent to performance, contra your "inexperienced kids" rhetoric. The idea that you can judge someones performance well enough in 1 month to fire frequently within that time frame sounds like bogus to me.
    • Joel_Mckay 4y ago
      It is anecdotal opinion based on my experience, and people need to learn to get along with people they don't like... as it is called being a professional. To "judge someones performance" one needs to understand how systems work in detail, and empathize with individual situations. In general, I prefer ex-service personnel, as they typically are self disciplined and require minimal oversight. I still respect your opinion, but disagree because it sounds like someone who has never had to manage teams, projects, and or budgets. Enhance your calm. =)
• enb 4y ago
  If a company/recruiter hasn’t indicated salary, then I just tell them what my remuneration expectations are. If it’s out of their range neither of us waste our time interviewing each other. Or possibly, the company has no idea what they should be paying. In telling them what I expect they too may adjust their expectations.
• tdudzik 4y ago
  We don't have such a law in Poland but we have a nice culture of posting salary ranges in IT offers. It's very ubiquitous on boards, Facebook, Slack channels, etc. We also have a (very popular) board where it's required to share a salary range (you can take a look on nofluffjobs.com if you are interested, it's not an ad, I just love the idea).
• faangiq 4y ago
  No salary range = lowballer scum. Simple as.
• jjav 4y ago
  > No need to waste time with 7 rounds of interviewing only to find out the salary is 50% of what I currently make. It's somewhat nice to have salary range in the job posting, but I've never felt strongly about. You should not go through 7 rounds of interviews, or even a single round, if the comp isn't a fit! That's the conversation to have on the very first intro call with the recruiter.
• eddof13 4y ago
  I think for cold applications this is probably the case, salary ranges (if competitive) will help encourage people to apply. However, recently I've opted to just response to LinkedIn messages that seem interesting. Many of them have the range, or if not, I just respond asking what the salary range is prior to having a call with them. Most of the time I get a response, and if not, then to the dustbin they go.
• anonymous_dev 4y ago
  No salary range usually means salary dumping. Where I work the management play this game, job postings without salary range and then they try the lower possible offer.
• 1xdevloper 4y ago
  This has been my personal experience too. I found myself opening only the job postings which have a salary range mainly because you need a lot of time and motivation to go through the whole process. Especially when you already have a job. This eventually inspired me to create RemoteFriendly[1]. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32019598 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32019598
• s1k3s 4y ago
  Do you have some data to back this up or is it just your experience? Because I've recently hired 4 people without specifying ranges in either of the job posts and I didn't feel like I had any issue with it. 3/4 job ads got over 100 applicants and the 4th got like 70. All jobs in tech. I feel like your assumption that companies don't find people might be wrong.
• pitermarx 4y ago
  I've stolen this idea from somewhere. Feel free to steal from me too. https://blog.pitermarx.com/2022/05/how-to-respond-to-recruiters/ https://blog.pitermarx.com/2022/05/how-to-respond-to-recruit...
• strzibny 4y ago
  I don't understand why people start even a first call without knowing the salary range. As mentioned by others, it's waste of time.
• puntofisso 4y ago
  I don't share/forward jobs without a salary range, and usually refuse to engage with them. I do ask, and if they're fuzzy, I understand it's not a good match. That said, and beyond my personal preference of a relatively privileged person (white male early 40s), this website gives some ideas on why it's better to publish salary ranges: https://showthepay.com/ https://showthepay.com/
• savorypiano 4y ago
  I created a confidential salary survey app for companies/candidates who don't want to give a number. The idea was that the company would put a budget, and just get a yes/no answer whether the candidate expectation was in range. This way nobody loses any negotiation leverage, and no interview time would be wasted over salary. I didn't know how to get traction for it though. Any ideas? https://payscope.appspot.com/ https://payscope.appspot.com/
• piinecone 4y ago
  I have this problem. As a result, a friend and I made a developer job search and recruiting tool that requires employers to state how much they pay. It will actively filter out developers who won’t accept less than what you’re offering. Developers express their preferences — pay, schedule, interests, values, etc. — and then only hear about new jobs if they match their preferences. https://polyfill.work https://polyfill.work
• xnx 4y ago
  I'd rather have tax returns be public (like Norway) than have laws requiring salary ranges.
• ManlyBread 4y ago
  For me, the lack of salary range equals the following: 1. There's nothing to brag about. If you pay well and you seek talent in a market where most of the time it's the workers that are in position of power you want the people to know that you're paying well. FAANG wouldn't be half as famous if the pay was mediocre. 2. There's lots of people being chronically underpaid and revealing salary ranges would cause them to revolt. Even if I'd get hired and receive a competitive wage it still highlights an issue with keeping the wage up to the market standards, which makes the job a temporary gig at best and I'd have to start applying to other companies soon enough, so why bother in the first place? 3. The company doesn't actually want an employee and is just probing the market. 4. The company doesn't have an actual number in mind (or actual hiring budget) and their offer is not going to be serious. 5. Whoever is in charge believes in some fairy tales about pay not being important or people working for passion and assumes I am equally as dumb and naive. All in all I most likely won't consider the company if the information about pay is absent. There's nothing to gain by wasting time with the whole process only to find out the pay is mediocre and I really don't expect to be surprised by an above-average offer.
• nunez 4y ago
  those salary ranges are usually way off, i've found. for ex., the posted salary range for a position I know pays over $200k base caps out at $165k. i'm guessing this is the case bc the band for that region caps out at $165k but hiring managers will shift really strong candidates around to make numbers work. as always, the only reliable way to know what salary to expect is to be upfront about it as early in the interviewing process as possible.
• krschacht 4y ago
  Rather than doing 7 rounds of interviewing before finding out the salary, why not ask earlier in the process?
• mavsman 4y ago
  Colorado is just 1 of 50 states and I'd guess companies don't care about ~2% of applicants.
• le-hu 4y ago
  in Poland something like 90% of IT offers have transparent salary ranges - if someone hides that, he's already suspicious. There's also a community-wide agreement that those offers should be avoided.
• OneOfTheIdiots 4y ago
  I live in Serbia. The amount of job posts that have salary ranges is about 0.1%. That sucks. Also, you never get an email from your potential employer that you aren't their choice for that position. You just assume that with time passing by.
• ID1452319 4y ago
  The bizarre situation in the UK is that most companies will not post a salary on their job ads, but recruitment firms, advertising the same role, will post a salary. This means I will always go for the ad with a salary and the company will have to pay the recruiter their finder's fee.