38 ms·
Apple Unveils M2
- renewiltord 4y ago20% better, 20% more cost? Fair enough. I'll get the M1 for my mum
- skavi 4y ago20% faster. The chassis and display have been changed as well. (Not to say you’ve made the wrong decision)
- renewiltord 4y agoNot at all, your opinion is much appreciated. Nothing massively different in the chassis and display, right?
- skavi 4y agoNothing game changing IMO. They added MagSafe charging. It’s thinner and lighter (the previous model was already thin and light). They added some new colors (I’m partial to the blue). The screen is a few pixels taller (however a new notch takes some of those pixels away). The camera is higher quality, the speakers are a bit better, and the screen gets a bit brighter.
- renewiltord 4y agoAh, the camera. That's big for her: 1080p vs 720p. But I think she's going to end up using her phone. Still, it does make me pause. The weight and colours are a good point. Thanks for the summary! <3
- fomine3 4y ago24GB of RAM (formerly 16GB) is a big upgrade for me.
- royletron 4y agoCan anyone fathom how a M2 MBP 13inch would stack up against the current M1Pro MBP 14-16inch? This whole CPU/GPU thing is hard to make out. An 8core M2 which has 12% more oomph then an M1 makes it equivalent to a 8.96core M1? What's wrong with clock speed...
- EgeAytin 4y agoDespite these improvements, it's not enough to replace M1 Pro when considering the price/performance
- kyleplum 4y agoI can't help but wonder what Microsoft's answer to Apple Silicon will be going forward. They don't really make hardware, but selling Windows laptops gets harder and harder the further Apple gets ahead. It seems inevitable that there needs to be some ARM-based Windows laptops to compete in perf/watt to the M1/M2 but I don't know what company can provide an ARM chip that competes with Apple at this point.
- vorpalhex 4y agoSimply getting functional Windows on ARM would be helpful. The last surface ARM attempt went poorly.
- zerkten 4y agoDo you mean the Surface X?
- kyleplum 4y agoI have faith in MS software development - I believe they can get windows on ARM working - but as far as I can tell, all non-Apple ARM hardware implementations are significantly lacking in the laptop space. There are vendors making decent phone chips, but I've seen no indication of the ability to scale up to a laptop in the way Apple Silicon has.
- MBCook 4y agoYeah, my impression is that the arm windows laptops were basically using cell phone chips. And if you consider that arm cellphone chips are already behind Apple cellphone chips (which the M1/2 improved on)… not great performance for windows.
- cowtools 4y agoeven if they can get windows on ARM working, they still need to get vendors to distribute ARM versions of their software. This is another leg up for apple and the humble penguin.
- Escapado 4y agoThey were so careful not to compare it to the M1 Pro!
- swyx 4y agocan anyone knowledgeable please oblige us with a comparison?
- masklinn 4y agoThe CPU cores of the M1 and M1P are exactly the same (just with different mixes, and different boosting behaviour on the E cores). If the M2 has 18% higher PPW, and keeps the same TDP / power draw, that's 18% higher performances (remains to be seen whether it's across the board for E-cores, or for P-cores) it's about 25% below the 6+2 M1 Pro, and about 70% below the 8+2 M1P. At least looking purely at the CPU.
- paulmd 4y ago14" MBP gets the M1 Pro/Max, not the base-tier M1. The M1 Pro is a 6+2 configuration, so it will have a little bit of an edge in core configuration, but Apple claims 18% faster on this generation, which might cancel out that edge a little bit (I'm guessing slightly slower still, but close). The M1 Pro does have a 40% larger GPU, but the M2 is 35% faster (again, taking Apple at face value) so it should again be similar-ish in gpu performance, very slightly slower (135/140 = 96% as fast). The big difference is still that M1 Pro gets support for much larger memory, and the 14" has a much better port configuration, the 13" is basically still the same old chassis with USB-C and the touch bar, just updated with a newer processor.
- stetrain 4y agoM1 Pro is either 6+2 or 8+2 depending on which model you select.
- cehrlich 4y agoM2 will be faster in single core, M1 Pro will be faster in multi core. Taking Apple's 20% claim at face value: Geekbench Single Core - M1, M1 Pro: 1700, M2: 2040 Geekbench Multi Core - M1: 7700, M1 Pro 8-core: 9000, M2: 9200, M1 Pro 10-core: 12400 Of course we'll see M2 Pro/Max sooner or later, which will presumably match M2 on single core just like the previous gen.
- beckingz 4y ago"M2 takes the industry-leading performance per watt of M1 even further with an 18 percent faster CPU, a 35 percent more powerful GPU, and a 40 percent faster Neural Engine" 18% faster at the same performance per watt is a nice increase. Interesting to see if this will ever make it to their desktop computers.
- paulmd 4y ago> 18% faster at the same performance per watt is a nice increase. 18% faster at the same wattage, which means 18% higher perf/watt.
- skavi 4y agoHave they confirmed anything about power?
- kllrnohj 4y agoSince they never made any specific power claims of the M1, why would you expect them to make any such statements about the M2? You'll have to wait for 3rd party reviews and analysis for that.
- paulmd 4y agoFrom the presentation, taken from Anandtech's liveblog: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/17429/34312453.jpg https://images.anandtech.com/doci/17429/34312453.jpg Same power budget.
- skavi 4y agoAh, completely missed that slide. Thanks!
- smoldesu 4y agoGPU wattage seems to be increasing, but that appears to be linearly correlated with the number of cores they're adding. Still a bit of an "Intel Moment" all things considered, but not as bad as it could have been.
- nabaraz 4y agoLooks like a pretty minimal upgrade over M1 pro. apple.com and keynote were also super vague with multi display support, parallelization etc.
- packetslave 4y agoRight, but you can't get an M1 Pro in a Macbook Air or 13" MBP. I think we'll probably also see an M2-based iPad Pro. If I had to guess, we'll next see a Macbook Pro 14"/16" with M2 Pro/Max, and the Mac Pro will be M2 Ultra.
- notum 4y ago
- refulgentis 4y ago5 years from now people will grok more fundamentally that launching 2 process nodes ahead of Intel via TSMC was the big win. For now, we'll deal with marketing-ese about how "other CPU vendors have to choose between power and performance" from Apple's head of semiconductor engineering, and posts on this page like the one saying Microsoft doesn't care and Apple's about to take over computing.
- Shadonototra 4y agoHow do you provide fanless laptop, and extended battery life if you don't care about maximizing performance while maintaining ultra low power usage? That is why nobody buys windows based laptops anymore and the macbook air is the best selling laptop you don't need apple marketing team to see how people are fed-up with hot windows laptops and their noisy fans (and blind btw, pun intended or maybe not lol)
- refulgentis 4y agoI agree, a fanless cool laptop is preferable over a loud fan and hot laptop
- Quarrel 4y ago> That is why nobody buys windows based laptops anymore and the macbook air is the best selling laptop A huge majority buy windows based laptops. Macbook Air's are the best selling laptop because of the fragmentation of the Windows laptop market amongst manufacturers. MacOS does not in any way make up a majority of laptops. I get that it is 2001 again and we should all be shitting on MS, but let's try and keep some facts in the conversation.
- Shadonototra 4y agoIncapable of attacking my argument about fanless/power efficiency, instead you nitpick on the sales > I get that it is 2001 again and we should all be shitting on MS, but let's try and keep some facts in the conversation. That's a windows 11 with snapdragon for you! fanless! ha
- MikusR 4y agoNo VP9 or AV1 acceleration.
- tokamak-teapot 4y agoThe M1 accelerates VP9
- out_of_protocol 4y agoAt least not mentioned. YouTube 4k will eat a lot of battery…
- turtlebits 4y agoWhy watch 4k on a 1664p screen?
- out_of_protocol 4y agoBitrate so much better, even on 1080p screen it looks nice
- The_Colonel 4y agoYou can connect an external 4K screen. Also higher bitrate makes it better looking even on lower res screens.
- bee_rider 4y agoThey would probably rather you watch videos on appleTV anyway.
- perardi 4y agoThe M1 already has VP9 acceleration in the “media engine” chunk of the SoC. https://singhkays.com/blog/apple-silicon-m1-video-power-consumption-pt-2/ https://singhkays.com/blog/apple-silicon-m1-video-power-cons... Though Apple doesn’t super explicitly say that. As for AV1…well, we don’t really know yet. That’s deep in the weeds, and it’s entire possible the M2 does have accelerated decoding, but they just didn’t spell that out yet.
- sydthrowaway 4y agoHow does the M2 compare to Intel's offerings?
- supreme_berry 4y ago
- dylan604 4y agoOne is a chip just announced/released by Apple. The other is a company floundering and stagnating in their product offerings. Did you want to compare the M2 to a specific Intel CPU? The M2 is better.
- zamalek 4y agoWatt-for-watt, dollar-for-dollar, M1 steamrolls Intel. Intel does claim to currently have the most powerful consumer chip on the planet, if you watts and performance (effectively cooling the thing is a bit of a meme). Note that Apple do not mention AMD. M1 and M2 probably still kick AMD to the dirt on the power efficiency front, but the cost for performance end would be difficult to quantify (and the AMD performance ceiling is also significantly higher).
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- colinmhayes 4y agoIntel's chips are a bit faster at the top end but use far more energy. Certainly a problem for laptops, but I don't think most desktop users care. I guess Intels prices are a bit better if you want more than 8gb mem/256 ssg, but they're not that far apart.
- lynguist 4y agoYou get a comparable performance at 15W with M2 to Intel at 55W. Intel is not significantly faster, just more power hungry. That’s the mean difference in day to day usage.
- hit8run 4y agoWhere is the new Mac Pro? Where is the upgrade to the XDR Display? Where is the M2 Mac Mini? What a shit show.
- TillE 4y agoFor a very long time, the M2 has been expected to launch before an updated Mac Pro - which might still be using an M1 variant, and should be out by the end of the year.
- phendrenad2 4y agoShitshow? Hardly. This is business, you only release the products that sell. Presumably the Mac Pro and Mac Minis aren't selling. Might have something to do with PCs doing all of the same stuff for less money. Packing power into a thin & cool laptop is where Apple shines now.
- jjtheblunt 4y agomaybe they're still in development, or test production runs?
- perardi 4y agoGood faith answer? Supply chains. Good ol’ supply chains. The “Mac” is really the “MacBook”—very solid majority of devices sold are laptops, followed by iMacs, then minis, then a teeeeeny sliver of Mac Pros. Well, probably. People infer it from quarterly earnings. Apple no longer breaks it down explicitly by category. But it’s a very safe assumption the biggest selling Macs, by far, are laptops, and they are prioritizing silicon for those.
- gnicholas 4y agoThe XDR Display did get upgraded — you can now attach your iPhone to it and use it as an external camera for Zoom. Amazing! (The XDR-specific mount will be $249, and you will say thank you.) /s
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cloudengineer94 4y agoStill only supports one display. Also they increased the prices across the board.. Quite happy with my M1 Pro, a beat and a hell of a purchase.
- top_sigrid 4y agoThis is disappointing. It has 2 Thunderbolt 4 ports but can only drive one external display. So unnecessary, this would be the perfect machine for my home and work setup, but I have 2 external displays in both cases.
- ttul 4y agoThey are 100% doing this intentionally. They want to drive power users toward spending more and they know that many of us will…
- dougmwne 4y agoWait, you can't extend the display to a second screen?
- msh 4y agoYes but only one external display plus the build in display.
- conductr 4y agoDoes the 13" MBP support multiple displays? Sorry- I'm horrible at reading Apple Specs and inferring the capabilities
- ccouzens 4y agojust the one external screen (two screens total including internal). https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ People have gotten round it by connecting additional screens using display link adapters.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y agoAll i want is a laptop with similar build quality, battery life, and Ubuntu.
- yoavm 4y agoMy X1 Yoga from 5 years ago still answers all the above, IMHO. I replaced the battery (myself) about a year ago. Build quality is great, and I think you can even get it preinstalled with Ubuntu. If you're not into the touchscreen-yoga thing, the X1 Carbon is pretty similar.
- archon810 4y agoI have the new X1 Yoga, and I like it better than any other Windows laptop I've ever owned, but battery life is just trash. I'd be lucky to get 3 hours out of the thing.
- jacooper 4y agoI think you should be hopeful for Aeshi Linux.
- dmix 4y ago> It also delivers 50 percent more memory bandwidth Anyone know if this means much in practice for a typical dev user?
- iostream24 4y agoWake me up when other hardware makers catch up so I can finally care, as I won’t be purchasing another Apple brand product, thanks.
- Xeoncross 4y agoI'm not surprised they are keeping the M1 Air alive. That thing is a great price/performance combo in a very light and portable wrapper. It's been $850-$900 multiple times at Costco, Bestbuy or Microcenter. Also, the first computer where getting the upgraded hard drive (512GB or 1TB) really helps with the low ram because of the integration bus they have with the drive for swap. It's fast.
- paulmd 4y agoThe price increases are a kick in the shins though. 20% more for 18% more performance. The M1 generation looks to be a bit of an "introductory offer" to get people looking at apple who otherwise wouldn't have... once they have established their mindshare as being a performance leader worth considering over x86, they can raise prices back up.
- mmmmmbop 4y agoI feel like most of the markup comes from the new industrial design. The previous M1 MBA was essentially a 2018 Retina MBA with an upgraded chip. When the 2018 Retina MBA was introduced, it was also $1,199.
- pier25 4y agoI agree. The Air used to be the laptop for everyone. Now it has entered into MBP territory in terms of pricing and performance. What will happen with the M3? Will the base Air start at $1500? Will the M2 Air drop its price to $999 when the M3 is released? I'm not saying the M2 Air is not worth its price compared to x86 laptops, but it's ridiculous that the cheapest Apple laptop is way overkill for its intended audience. Even the M1 is already overkill for users that typically spend the majority of their time in a browser or using Office.
- turtlebits 4y agoThe original Macbook Air when introduced had an MSRP of $1800. They are still selling the M1 Air at $1000.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago0n the return on MagSafe: they should have let Jony "Form over Function" Ive go much sooner. Maybe we'd still have audio jacks on iPhones.
- sgarman 4y agoI can't believe I'm saying this but now that all my devices charge via usb-c I don't actually want magsafe that much now I can bring one cable and change all my portables and mac + razer laptops. Not worth it for me to lug around another cable just for magsafe.
- mnholt 4y agoMy MagSafe cord for the 2021 MBP stays at home and it's USB-C while on the go. Still, the return of MagSafe is welcome just so folks have the option.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y agoThe best of both worlds would probably be a magnetically detachable USB-C cable. There are such cables out there but they have very very bad quality, at least those few I've tried.
- pdpi 4y agoThe best of both worlds is what we have today - you can use either magsafe or the usb-c ports, so you have the extra safety if you bring the extra cable, or the extra convenience if you can't be bothered. There's some third-party offerings out there for magsafe-style USB cables.
- kube-system 4y agoThat's what the new magsafe cable basically is. A magnetic USB-C cable that (probably) isn't garbage quality.
- corrral 4y agoThe improved battery life with M1 is so good that I pretty much only plug in when I'm at my desk. Most of the situations in which MagSafe saved me before (and there were plenty) I'm just not using a charger at all, now. And at my desk, I'm plugging into my monitor, not directly into a wall outlet. In fact, I almost never plug my Air into its charging brick at all.
- anonymouse008 4y agoIt's very interesting to think the processor releases were holding back the Mac for so long. They are on the cusp on turning Macs into annual upgrades - with meaningful performance upgrades tied to the OS, just like they've done for a decade with the A series / iOS releases. This is firing on all cylinders. The organizational structure and performance is a marvel for this.
- smoldesu 4y agoCounterpoint: M2 is a tock release, not a tick. This is pretty much the same behavior that ended up getting Intel shot in the foot: leaning too heavily on marginal performance increases from process enhancement will bite you in the butt when your competitors get their tech on your node. Intel and AMD are both going to be on 5nm in 2023, Apple should be pretty worried if this is what they're fighting with. 3nm isn't even getting taped off until 2024 AFAIK, so this really does feel like Apple's "Skylake" moment, as far as desktop CPU architecture is concerned.
- nojito 4y agoOnly because it’s a COVID year.
- 7speter 4y agoMy understanding is that AMD coasts behind Apple’s process progress at tsmc, seeing as Apple invests the bulk of resources into tsmc’s cutting edge nodes. If apple hits a wall, well so does everyone else depending on the fruits of their r and d. Also, if Intel can keep up this time, and if tsmc/apple slouches, I wonder if there will be Apple silicon and Intel x86-64/risc macs/apppe devices on available simultaneously?
- dmix 4y agoApple doesn't really have to worry about competition too much for a long time, even if Intel and AMD get comparable watt/power levels for laptops, Apple isn't going to be using them for their products anytime soon. And people using Macbooks aren't likely to switch to Windows/Linux machines, even if there is a 20% better CPU. But really we've only had 2.5 released cycles so far. Not much to go by.
- xyst 4y agoLet’s hope they fixed the 32MB TLB bottleneck
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jrochkind1 4y agoI'd still buy the 14" Pro for the more ports, slower chip for more $ or not. And real function keys instead of a touchbar? They seem to be making weirdly inconsistent choices in the product line. I thought they were going to be getting rid of the touchbar (and maybe adding more ports?) and they were only still in the legacy 13" because it was legacy. But apparently they mean to indefinitely have a 13" Pro with a touchbar and a 14" Pro (actually the same size device, just less bezel, I think?) with function keys? And the new M2 Air has a magsafe power connector (like the M1 14" and 16" Pro)... but the new M2 13" Pro does not? Why?
- babypuncher 4y agoI don't think M2 is meant as an upgrade over last year's M1 X or Pro.
- jrochkind1 4y agoWhat is the 13" M2 Pro meant for, do you think? Why would you buy it instead of either the new M2 13" Air or the 14" M1 Pro? I can't find a reason. I guess if you really love the touchbar, this is the only thing that has it? (That HN hates and we all thought they were getting rid of based on the M1 Pro's). Or you really hate magsafe power connectors, this is the only new laptop that lacks it?
- babypuncher 4y agoIt is meant to fill the gap in the product line between the Air and the 14" Pro. The fact that it did not get redesigned alongside the Air makes it a weird and confusing product. Performance-wise, it should beat out the Air thanks to the inclusion of a better cooling system. Just like with the M1 versions of the 13" and MBA.
- icyfox 4y agoI can't figure this one out either. The Air now has the same screen as the MBP 13", same processor, slimmer form factor. The air is also $100 cheaper than the MBP so that's not a justification. The only thing that is different on the specs page is the GPU count 10-cores versus 8. Why keep the 13?
- jrib 4y agoonly two usb-c ports :(
- gnicholas 4y agoYes, but 100% more usable ones than before, if you factor in the new MagSafe. I'm still pissed I would have to spend $2,000 to get a Mac with more than 2 USB ports (or HDMI, SD, and other standard fare from MBAs of yore). But I'll put up with that limitation to get one of these new MBAs. If someone came out with a nub-sized flash drive that sat nearly flush with the edge of the Mac, I'd definitely get one. I was really hoping the base MBP would be revamped, and I'd be able to get an SD card slot and avoid Apple's insane storage tax...
- DonHopkins 4y agoI got an M1 Macbook Pro, and yeah, the processor is fast and cool and all that, but the most absolutely wonderful thing about it by far is that there's no touchbar!
- stjohnswarts 4y agoAm I the only one who just ignored the touchbar and didn't take it as a personal affront?
- reaperducer 4y agoMy work machine has one, and I use it to display status information, give me a proper Rub Out key, and for soft keys to insert certain Unicode and macros that I need occasionally, but not often enough to remember. I think it would have been better accepted if Apple make it more customizable right out of the box, instead of relying on half-baked solutions from tinkerers to program it. In my opinion, it should also have been in addition to the function keys, not a replacement.
- olliej 4y agoThe problem I have with the touchbar isn't the existence of it, it's that apparently my keyboard posture is terrible and I float fingers up their periodically. Because there's no force requirement for activation, I would keep triggering buttons. I could turn it off, but there are a few of the command/f buttons I use regularly, and so am stuck with it. Hence, it's a nuisance. Not something I go insane about like some do, but it is a very definite day-to-day annoyance.
- dumpsterdiver 4y ago> apparently my keyboard posture is terrible and I float fingers up their periodically Same. The short time I was exposed to the touchbar it felt like I was constantly being berated for my keyboard posture. Apparently the "at rest" position of my left hand leaves my middle/ring fingers hovering over the escape key (I had the earlier model that didn't have a physical escape key). Not to mention losing access to the physical f-keys decimated my custom hotkey usage for certain software.
- haunter 4y agoI'll switch once I can play my full Steam library on a machine like this. The power is there for sure.
- yieldcrv 4y agoI'm only a very casual gamer these days (although anyone I go on a date with would only see a gaming accessory or console and immediately think hardcore), I recently went down the gaming rabbithole to see what I can do with my M1. It seems like MacOS on M1 architecture can play almost everything! Like, there are so many titles that don't have OSX listed as ever being released for, but it can either be played out the box or with a slight tweak. But I guess that does preclude Steam releases if you don't have direct access to the per game, installers. And nowadays these indie games release on all major consoles, mobile, and windows, macos. What are you encountering? A few examples on whats missing for you?
- david_allison 4y agoDid you get any VR games working? https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Home https://www.applegamingwiki.com/wiki/Home paints a sorry picture of the state of M1 gaming (partially due to dropping 32 bit support).
- yieldcrv 4y agoNo VR! I’m sad I can’t get to experience Half Life Alyx, but I mostly forget
- lapetitejort 4y agoThree semi-broad examples, Elden Ring (Japanese dev), Horizon: Zero Dawn (Dutch dev, PS4 port), and Inscryption (indie dev) do not show MacOS support. I have not tried installing Windows-only games on a Mac. Can they be installed regardless if they don't show support? Does Valve have Mac-specific APIs to get them runnable like they do for Linux?
- culopatin 4y agoCan you expand on “almost everything” and what you do to achieve that?
- rootsudo 4y agoThe only downside is now magsafe over usb-c :( unless you can charge with both on new macs?
- habryka 4y agoYou can charge with both, in any port (I have a Macbook pro with Magsafe, but primarily use all the USB-C chargers I have lying around)
- clintonwoo 4y agoYou can charge with both on the 14" and 16", at the apple store a few weeks ago they told me the next one's will likely have the same capabilities.
- rootsudo 4y agoThat's awesome, thought they were doing a 180 and forcing magsafe charging only.
- ascendantlogic 4y agoWhy is that a downside? Magsafe was one of the best things about the older, early-2010's Macbooks.
- skohan 4y agoI for one love charging with USB-C. By now I have USB-C cables laying around a few different places in the house, and can charge almost anything at any one of them. No going to the other room to get the cable.
- wildrhythms 4y agoMagsafe is fine; having to travel with a separate charging block is terrible. The USB-C consolidation has been awesome for people like me who travel frequently- my phone, external battery, M1 Air, headphones, Nintendo Switch... all charge over USB-C, so I only have to travel with a single charger. It's wonderful
- maskedinvader 4y agoIt was super interesting for me to see Apple not directly compare M2 to M1 in any of the graphs, why not directly tell us how much better it is than its predecessor as opposed to PC Laptop peers ?
- Jtsummers 4y agoFirst graph of the first set of graphs on the page shows M2 as 18% better performance for the same power consumption as M1. First graph of the second set of graphs shows a GPU performance comparison between M1 and M2.
- mbreese 4y agoHuh? https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/live-action/wwdc-2022/Apple-WWDC22-M2-chip-CPU-perf-vs-power-01-220606_big.jpg.large_2x.jpg https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/live-action/wwdc-2022/... This was the first comparison on the page. M2 has 18% more relative performance than an M1. You can argue about the relative part, but the certainly included the comparison (and do for GPU, etc...).
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- aeonflux 4y agoThey had a graph with M1 and M2.
- maskedinvader 4y agoah I missed those while I was watching the livestream, probably distracted with something at work, but what I saw was some 5 different graphs with 10core laptop pc, so was like what happened to comparison with M!.
- yieldcrv 4y agoDoes this mean that a M2 Max could do 128gb RAM? That opens up some use cases beyond the 64gb. My world has pretty much no improvement between 32gb and 128gb, but I'm currently on a 64gb machine.
- lynguist 4y agoIt would mean 96GB. They increased from 2 memory channels per M1 to 3 memory channels per M2.
- a-dub 4y agohow does m2 neural engine performance compare with popular contemporary nvidia laptop and desktop gpus?
- qmmmur 4y agoHow do these on the new base model air compare to an m1 13”? Any benchmarks yet?
- josu 4y agoApple A4 (2010) vs A5 (2011) - CPU: 100% faster - GPU: 600% faster Apple M1 (2020) vs M2 (2022) - CPU: 18% faster - GPU: 35% faster Diminishing returns.
- jb1991 4y agoThat's what they call cherry-picking stats.
- kristianp 4y agoThat's the same for all chip makers. It's the end of Moore's law that's bringing the diminishing returns, as you probably know.
- shinycode 4y agoIt depends also on the % of what. 600% of 1$ 18% of 1 000 000$ Which % do you prefer ?
- clintonwoo 4y agoOuch, that MacBook Pro 13" chassis makes me hurt. The air actually has a better body, that's disappointing. The display size, magsafe and function keys are all better on Air but it doesn't have a fan for sustained performance :'(
- dry_soup 4y agoAnd the touchbar limps on
- bredren 4y agoConfounding why this is continuing. Is there that much remaining inventory?
- romanovcode 4y agoThat would be the only reason I can imagine.
- ricardobeat 4y agoThat’s what the MBP 14/16 are for. Unless you’re editing video though, it’s unlikely you’ll notice a difference.
- skavi 4y agoAs far as I can tell, there is almost no reason for the 13” MBP to exist.
- blinded 4y agoyessss been waiting for a m2 mini for a new workstation
- MarioMan 4y agoNow that we have validation that Apple is sticking with a numeric naming convention, I wonder how they will handle the upcoming naming clash with the M7 through M12 motion coprocessors used in the A-series chips.
- de6u99er 4y agoI think tis is a non-issue. In 6 years nobody will remember those coprocessors any more.
- lvl102 4y agoThis makes me think Microsoft should just pay up and buy Intel because it will be hard to compete with Macs in a year or so.
- seabriez 4y agoCompete with what? Virtual Memory swapping that Apple just introduced?
- dotopotoro 4y agoHow much of microsoft is windows business?
- romanovcode 4y agoMicrosoft makes less than 20% of their revenue from Windows.
- dzonga 4y agoI like how Apple is pushing forward the computing industry to have SOC's. However, in as much how fast an m1, m2 or the Alder lake processors are. the problem, lies in 45% in the HN demographic that's shipping dog slow software. whether creating OS code at Microsoft, Linux or Chrome. then the rest of the web dev's. Hopefully the industry can transition to SOC's with documented API's so we can skip the multi-layers of software i.e Firmware -> OS -> Driver's -> User Land Software to Just Hardware -> Thin OS (unikernel like) -> User land software
- akrymski 4y agoSomeone please explain to me why I need so much power. Can't even run ML on these. More browser tabs? I miss my 100Mhz IBM PC with 16 MBs of RAM & Visual Studio.
- latenightcoding 4y agoVideo/Photo editing
- seabriez 4y ago$1500 to edit photos 20% faster? Was it slow before?
- ulfw 4y agoif you're dealing with 45-61MP RAW files yes. More RAM and more GPU and CPU speed help. Of course.
- seabriez 4y agoI'm a photographer, and almost no one deals with 45-61MP RAW files. You're talking about a subsegment of photographers, subsegment of those who deal with making very large images, almost no one. It's your money lol, I just don't understand why you justifying so hard spending money on this incremental update.
- ulfw 4y agoI use 45MP RAW files from my Nikon Z7. Guess I'm almost no one. Thanks for the helpful comment. "lol"
- dagmx 4y agoIf you're doing it professionally, then that adds up. This is such a ludicrous argument. If something is faster, it's faster. What's the problem?
- 4y ago
- shreddit 4y agoCan someone tell me how big of a difference in performance the missing fan on the air will make against the pro 13”?
- convery 4y agoI see a lot of hype around the AI cores. What do regular users use it for? Only thing I can think of is accelerating writing recognition / face-auth stuff.
- n00bface 4y agoFilters and Zoom backgrounds.
- godelski 4y agoWhy does the 13" Pro have a 720p camera and the Air have a 1080p? Seriously, why is Apple still putting in 720p cameras? This has to be a mistake, right? Edit: Also the pro is missing the magsafe charger. Are they phasing out the 13" pro? Pro: https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ Air: https://www.apple.com/macbook-air-m2/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air-m2/specs/
- flakiness 4y agoMBP13 is an old form factor so it'll be definitely phased out. There are 14 and 16 that are getting real love these have 1080p webcam IIRC. But the phase-out period is very long in recent Apple products (which is probably a good thing especially for enterprise context.)
- darkteflon 4y agoTo clarify, you’re talking about the 13” Pro only. But yeah, total mystery to me why they’re still selling it. It made sense in 2020 on the cusp of the Intel/Silicon transition, but now that we already have the redesigned 14”, don’t really understand what they’re doing here. Who would buy one of these? The Touch Bar is an evolutionary dead-end, and the design of the new 14” and 16” Pros seemed specifically targeted at addressing the well-known shortfalls of this previous generation.
- ricw 4y agoSimple answer: price. 13in pro starts at $1299. The newer 14in starts at $1999.
- meowtimemania 4y agoWhy purchase a 13in pro over the m2 chip air?
- threeseed 4y agoProbably the biggest reason is the fan. Allows for increased sustained performance as benchmarks have shown with M1.
- hit8run 4y agoNot really a new chip version. Still 5nm.
- mlindner 4y agoOne note, I used the images of the chips themselves and the M2 chip is physically bigger than the M1 chip by 21.8%, but the article claims a 25% increase in transistors. So there's only an actual 3% increase (1.25 / 1.218) in the transistor density with this new process. Most of the advancement is presumably in the form of better heat transfer and cheaper silicon per unit area.
- Waterluvian 4y agoFunny how I skim the page for eight seconds, see a ton of marketing fluff, and immediately back out and come to the comments section here for real info.
- peter303 4y agoI was hoping to the long-awaited Reality Glasses this keynote. Something like a M2 on each lens could drive a 90 fps 2K display. The libraries are hinting at howAR/VR will be done-Metal-3, lidar, etc.
- mrb 4y ago"Compared with the latest 10-core PC laptop chip, the CPU in M2 provides nearly twice the performance at the same power level" "compared to the latest 12-core PC laptop chip [...] M2 provides nearly 90 percent of the peak performance" That doesn't make sense. Twice the performance of a 10-core Intel CPU, but only 90% of the performance of a 12-core? This implies Intel more than doubles performance when going from 10 to 12 cores. Reading the footnotes, the 10- and 12-core Intel CPUs that Apple used for benchmarking are the i7-1255U and i7-1260P which have respectively 2P+8E and 4P+8E cores (performant and efficient cores). So the second Intel CPU actually has twice the number of performant cores than the first. This means the benchmark mostly depends on performant cores and nearly doesn't use or doesn't depend on efficient cores. If so, that's a rather useless benchmark for evaluating the CPU as a whole (P and E cores.) But what this also means is that Apple is being sneaky. The M2 has 4P + 4E cores (not revealed in the press release, but we can tell from the die shot). Thus comparing it to an Intel CPU with only 2P cores (i7-1255U) is guaranteed to make the M2 look better as the benchmark doesn't use E cores (see above.) What I'd love to see is the M2 put up against a Zen 3 or 3+ mobile CPU like the Ryzen 7 6800U (15–28 W) which straight up has 8 regular ("performant") cores.
- dagmx 4y agoI would recommend looking at the graphs below the section you've quoted because they do explain away the incongruity that you're thinking is there. It's 2x the perf if you compare the max power draw performance of the M2 vs the performance of the Intel CPU at the same power draw (so not maxed out) It's 90% performance of the Intel CPU when they're both maxed out, while taking quarter of the power draw
- mrb 4y agoErr, you are right. I misread.
- Maursault 4y agoThat's a year and seven months since M1 was released, so M3 is expected ? Jan. 2024? It'd be pretty rare for a January release, expect instead probably November 2023 or March 2024. There's a joke here somewhere... all those poor M2 suckers when M3 is about to be released. Something like that.