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Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?

• Doubtme 4y ago
  2022 12th gen intel Asus rog strix You'll thank me later
  • lukeholder 4y ago
    With linux?
• algem 4y ago
  I like the lenovo thinkpads as an alternative to macbook pro. I find their track pad similar to the macbook pro. Their performance is good enough and they are pretty durable. Asus is also nice but i think it’s really hit or miss with them.
• mr_spothawk 4y ago
  This seems relevant wrt Purism 14: https://www.reddit.com/r/Purism/comments/my8u2l/psa_librem_14_units_appear_to_have_been_modified/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Purism/comments/my8u2l/psa_librem_1...
• fennecfoxy 4y ago
  I don't know why everyone loves XPS so much. I got one to use for dev and it just sucks. Why I say that, you ask? 1: Advertised as "space age cooling" is just a dinky heat pipe: this laptop has HUGE cooling issues, super loud fan, impossible to share screen during meetings without everyone hearing your portable jet engine. I mitigated this by placing some good thermal strips to connect the heat pipes to the aluminium back of the laptop, this dropped it a few degrees and the back only gets slightly warm, not hot. Why couldn't Dell have done this? I'm still tempted to repaste the thing as well. 2: Dell's usual early 2000s corporate BS. The fan is loud. But you can't control it. Well you can, but you have to use Dell's crappy Power software which gives you three different settings for it. No speedfan, no manual fan control etc as it's all locked down. 3: Variants with 4k screens from about 2019 (idk about other years) with integrated graphics just _cannot_ drive the 4k panel properly in terms of performance. 4: The cooling sucks 5: The battery sucks pretty bad, you might get a couple hours out of it at most (esp on Windows). 6: The cooling sucks Granted, they provide drivers for linux/support it etc which is great, and the machine itself (at least the one I got XPS 9380) is pretty powerful - it just can't cool itself well enough to get the performance unless you're fine sitting in front of the world's loudest white noise generator. Only thing is I paid £1650 for it late 2019...now they're available for like £399 secondhand. No wonder, they've probably all cooked themselves.
  • fennecfoxy 4y ago
    Here was my thermal pad install: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/glh92c/comment/ftda5mz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/glh92c/comment/ftda5m... It did improve things by a decent bit, but under full load it still wants to melt itself. I guess we can blame consumers complaining about laptop undersides becoming a bit warm.
• fsflover 4y ago
  > However, I am curious about users' experiences with: >the Purism Librem 14: https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ https://forums.puri.sm/t/no-nonsense-review-from-an-actual-user-of-librem-14-laptop/16826 https://forums.puri.sm/t/no-nonsense-review-from-an-actual-u...
• secperkinsstan 4y ago
  If the intensive computing is GPU use a lambda machine might be a good choice.
  • watersb 4y ago
    A quick announcement on Ars Technica -- the Lambda is nVidia CUDA, Linux beast laptop with very nice Razer design. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/04/razer-designed-linux-laptop-targets-ai-developers-with-deep-learning-emphasis/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/04/razer-designed-linux...
    • bodge5000 4y ago
      The Razer design is nice, but as someone with a blade who's battery bulged within only a year of moderate use because cooling was clearly an after-thought to looking good, I wouldnt be quick to trust it. Then again, maybe they've improved since then. Mine was a 2019 model after all.
      • malsanton 4y ago
        so it’s not just me! twice replaced a bulging battery so bad it caused the trackpad button to stop working.
    • zamalek 4y ago
      Something to be wary of: Razer has a bad reliability reputation, in conjunction with bad customer support. The glowing remarks usually come from people who Razer has a vested interest in pleasing.
• francis-io 4y ago
  The professional (T series) line of the Thinkpads are my go to. I've been running ubuntu 20.04 for the past few years. You can have hot swap batteries and an inbuilt SIM slot if you choose. Not sure if the fingerprint is working (I didn't select that option) but everything else works flawlessly. Side note: I have been maintaining an Ansible playbook for years now that sets up my developer workstation. I do know Ansible already, but I think it's a worthwhile weekend project if you are starting from scratch. You just need to be consistent and have all changes go through Ansible.
  • excitednumber 4y ago
    I recently wimped out of buying a thinkpad due to uncertainty regarding getting Ubuntu running correctly and the time it would take me to do it. Do you have a guide you’ve used or instructions you have stashed somewhere?
    • philliphaydon 4y ago
      Ubuntu more or less just works, just shove a bootable usb stick in, install it, and use it. Things get a bit fiddly if you want to use something like Manjaro or Fedora. But even then, it all just works.
    • andmikey 4y ago
      For my Thinkpad (Thinkpad 13, I think it's called L-series now) installing Ubuntu was no trouble at all - set up a bootable USB, install, and done. Ubuntu actually runs much better than Windows!
    • jack_pp 4y ago
      I'm running Debian on a t490 and have had no issues so far. I can find a replacement t490 for under 600$ and it's a great dev machine.
    • goosedragons 4y ago
      What needs to be done depends on the model. Some models are Ubuntu certfied [0] and just work. They even sell some with it. Some need a little tweaking. I recently got a P14s Gen 2 AMD at work and all I really had to do was install the OEM kernel to get WiFi working and set sleep in the BIOS to Linux instead of Windows. Otherwise everything works. [0] https://ubuntu.com/certified https://ubuntu.com/certified
• adhesive_wombat 4y ago
  Second hand ThinkPad T series gets a lot of bang for the buck (maybe not as good as they used to be, but still good, repairable, generally upgradable and very available as ex-enterprise machines). Good matte displays, good hinges and great keyboards. Don't sweat the battery, they're removable, upgradeable to larger ones if you have to go a longer time on a charge and easy to replace. For the change left over from $2000, you can buy lots of them!
  • horsestaple 4y ago
    Yeah I don't think you need to spend so much when these second hand T-series get you 95% of the way there for less.
    • iforgotpassword 4y ago
      Thirded. Even switching to a 2 years old used T every other year is still cheaper than spending 2k just to get what's currently high end and hope it lasts you 6+ years. You get them decently refurbished on ebay as they are popular leasing models for companies which switch them out more or less on a fixed schedule. If you're lucky you get one that was sitting in a docking station for two years and is almost pristine, just the battery destroyed because it was on AC power uninterrupted.
  • rjh29 4y ago
    I agree. I've tried the X1 Carbon and the T series. The T14s in particular is much cheaper than the X1, more powerful, more reliable, has more USB ports and deeper keybed, at the cost of being slightly thicker and heavier. In addition my X1 Carbon broke after two years of use (trackpad failed, left arrow key stopped working, trackpoint started moving by itself, etc.) which I think is due to how thin and flimsy the whole setup is. But I'm very happy with the Ryzen T14s.
  • hef19898 4y ago
    Agree. I have refurbished T series as a back up and a then-new X1 Extreme as a daily driver. For everything work related the T series was more then enough, and it cost a fraction of the X1 Extreme. I did go with the X1 so as it also replaced an obsolete gaming desktop, so it was still reasonably priced overall.
• terafo 4y ago
  Are M1 Macs with Asahi Linux a viable option for daily-driver or they are not mature enough?
  • Milner08 4y ago
    I would say not mature enough yet. There are plenty of things missing support right now.
  • Casteil 4y ago
    Definitely not mature enough for a daily driver. It's an alpha, and there are significant things that don't work yet including HDMI, displayport, thunderbolt, GPU acceleration, video acceleration, and sleep/deep idle. https://asahilinux.org/2022/03/asahi-linux-alpha-release/ https://asahilinux.org/2022/03/asahi-linux-alpha-release/
    • martinald 4y ago
      I've rarely seen a Linux laptop with solid display out, GPU acceleration and sleep/wake ever though...
      • silon42 4y ago
        I'm happy with my T480 (has NVidia, but I disabled it -- it did mostly work with open source drivers, just warmish)... USB-C DP, PD works. The only issue I have is that original Docking station sometimes fails to switch audio outputs (Ubuntu LTS).
      • smoldesu 4y ago
        Really? Unless your machine is completely unsupported by the kernel, I find that hard to believe. Even Nvidia machines "just work" these days...
      • prmoustache 4y ago
        No issue on my two thinkpads (E580 and Yoga 390), my Dell Latitude 5310, my GPD Pocket 2 in that regard. I have an HP elitebook 8140p that works well with netflix, hbomax and youtube but seems to have lower framerates with other video streaming services. Not sure if it because it uses the nouveau driver or because it is just more than a decade old.
• PaywallBuster 4y ago
  Huawei Matebook looks interesting alternative to Macbook https://consumer.huawei.com/en/laptops/matebook-14-amd-2020/ https://consumer.huawei.com/en/laptops/matebook-14-amd-2020/ Similar build and high power CPUs (not the mobile optimized/low power)
• pizza234 4y ago
  If you're going for small(er) brands, another entry to the list is the [Penguin J4](https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/penguin-j4-gnulinux-laptop https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/penguin-j4-gnulinux-l...), which has a replaceable battery. Speaking of big brands, the Dell XPS developer edition is on paper very Linux compatible, although in pratice, it's (insulting) marketing fluff (I've had one). I second the Thinkpads compatibility (I had several, I think they were T/W).
• bebna 4y ago
  Battery Life Lipo: - Run it in by fully charge it 2-3 times, (deplete it with normal use) - Normal use keep it between 20-80%, write yourself a script or something to stop charging manually/automatically - Deplete/fully charge it quarterly or twice a year to give the bms a change to balance the cells.
  • acky 4y ago
    While these are good guidelines, I came to the conclusion that life's too short to spend so much mental energy on this. If your devices need to be charged - charge them. That's it, that's the only rule.
    • JamesAdir 4y ago
      Lenovo has a tool that can keep the battery at around 70%. If you are 80% working in the same location, then it can really keep your batter life longer. If you are moving all the time, then certainly keep it charge to 100%.
      • lazzurs 4y ago
        Apple has started doing this and I can't say I am impressed. When I unplug I expect my laptop to be at 100% not randomly at ~80% based on a guess as to when I might unplug.
  • pflanze 4y ago
    > - Deplete/fully charge it quarterly or twice a year to give the bms a change to balance the cells. AFAIK it's not the balancing that needs to happen periodically, but the measurement of the voltage curve so that estimates are shown correctly. Balancing should happen all the time (and is, AFAIK, usually done by a low-level circuit, not a microprocessor) regardless of how far you charge or discharge. But if you know more, feel free to correct me.
• Bancakes 4y ago
  Any device that can build its own kernel is a good SWE device. However, I'd recommend a DELL or Samsung with a high-res OLED display. Those are gorgeous and have great color and luminance contrast for text.
• pflanze 4y ago
  > maintaining battery life Using less battery power: - use `powertop` to find processes that are sucking power - stop browsers when not in use (e.g. `killall -STOP firefox-esr`, then same with -CONT when using them again, although Firefox tends to first spin 100% for a little while then; alternatively simply `killall firefox-esr`, Firefox will usually re-open the tabs) - I use hibernate Retaining battery life over the years: - AFAIK Li-ion batteries last longest when kept cool, and when kept in the 30%..70% charged range most of the time; there used to be ways to tell ThinkPads to stop charging when reaching 70%, I've never used that though. - I'm still hoping LiFePO4 (LFP) batteries will be sold for laptops some day, they would last much longer (but I guess when it happens, most third-party ones will be fakes (re-labelled Li-ion)...)
• windex 4y ago
  I got an old X series thinkpad for 120USD. upgraded ram, and HDD to SSD. Does its work.
• aristofun 4y ago
  Speaking of longevity, given the performance of m1 and absence of any moving parts except keyboard — go with Macbook Air M1 and just run Ubuntu there. Would be still more performant than most of intel laptops in 2000$ range.
  • daenney 4y ago
    > go with Macbook Air M1 and just run Ubuntu there. You can’t really do that, yet. Asahi is making good strides so that you can run Linux on the M1, but it’s not there yet for a daily driver.
    • erwincoumans 4y ago
      You can run Ubuntu under Parallels on Mac M1. It works well for us.
  • tzs 4y ago
    I have some concerns about longevity of many of the current M1 machines. Yes, they have no moving parts other than keyboards (and fans in some models) which would be covered by AppleCare+ [1] so it would seem that you could keep on going a long time. However, one of the non-moving parts does wear out: the SSD. It is not clear to me from the AppleCare+ TOS if an SSD failing due to reaching its write limits would be covered. The TOS says it does not cover wear and tear, but I'm not sure if SSD wear falls under that or not. I like to keep computers a long time. I kept my 2008 Mac Pro until 2017, and only switched then because something I needed required the latest MacOS and 2017 was the year when the 2008 Mac Pro stopped getting the new major MacOS releases. I'm now only considering replacing the 2017 iMac i got then because the display has developed a vertical line of bad pixels. If not for that I'd be staying on it for another few years at least. The SSD in my iMac is still around 98% after over 4 years and so seems like wear won't be a problem, and it is replaceable with some difficulty (OWC calls it an "advanced" repair and suggests having a pro do it). But I've got 64 GB in the iMac. I don't think I've ever seen it touch the SSD for swap/paging [2]. I'm worried that on many of the M1 Macs that would not be the case. All of them except the Studio and the 14/16" MacBook Pros top out at 16 MB, and I've noticed on my iMac that I'm usually using between 16 GB and 28 GB. I've watched quite a few reviews on YouTube of people testing the M1 machines under heavy load in quite a few different configurations, and one thing that has stood out is that there is surprising little performance difference in a lot of these tests between maxed out memory and minimal memory configurations. These tests do show significant swap usage on the low memory machines. Similar thing in a lot of the comments on HN from developers using M1. Great performance with a lot less memory than I expect a machine used for heavy development to need. I think what is going on is that there is so much bandwidth to internal SSDs now that on recent machines if you are hitting swap for task switching the I/O is so fast that it won't noticeably limit performance. It would only be when you are dealing with data structures big enough that you need to hit swap during random data structure access in a single task that you'd start really noticing a slowdown. My concern then is that with the M1 Macs that have 16 GB or less RAM they may be making enough use of swap that they won't work out when it comes to longevity. Most people's needs grow over time as software becomes ever more bloated, so I'm worried that even if they aren't touching swap much now they will be in 3 or 4 years. [1] In case anyone else missed this a year or so ago like I did, Apple changed the way AppleCare works. It used to be a one time purchase that extended your warranty to 3 years and then ended. They changed it so that you can buy it as an annual subscription that you can keep renewing indefinitely. [2] Hah! In the middle of typing this post, my swap usage went to 99.0 MB. Kind of weird. I didn't manage to get any swap usage when I purposefully tried doing several large things trying to see how much memory I actually needed, and now I'm just sitting here with everything idle except the browser and I get swap.
• anotherhue 4y ago
  A thousand dollar second hand thinkpad now (t or x1) and another thousand dollar one in two years.
• daenney 4y ago
  The problem I run into with a lot of these is that their screens aren’t great. 1080p@60Hz and usually pretty terrible brightness makes them a bad fit for me as a travel companion, or even just working from my garden. It’s also annoying that some keep insisting on a barrel connector for charging instead of leveraging the USB-C port. As much as I appreciate the privacy and freedom enhancing aspects of some of these devices, ultimately a device that’s more practical for me in day to day usage wins out. That generally leaves me with a more established manufacturer. Lenovo Thinkpad and Ideapad have options in this area and run Linux just fine. Dell XPSes are good too, though I wish they’d offer an AMD option. HP Envy/Spectre devices are rather decent too, though getting the touchscreen and sensors to work on these can be fiddly because HP compensates for their broken BIOS through the Windows drivers instead of just fixing shit.
  • Avalaxy 4y ago
    > Dell XPSes are good too Be very careful. They are very good laptops, and Dell's customer support for businesses is stellar, but the XPS machines play VERY bad with Linux. There are some XPS machines that are shipped with linux, so they should be fine. But most of them have wifi/bluetooth chips that have no support at all, or very bad support.
    • daenney 4y ago
      I’ve owned two generations of them and exclusively run Linux on them (I think the 2016 and 2018 releases). One of them was a Developer Edition from work, but the other one was a generic store bought. Never had any issues with WiFi or Bluetooth. I’ve always run distributions with kernel releases that aren’t months or years behind upstream, which might have helped as far as hardware support goes.
    • pizza234 4y ago
      Dell XPS has a Linux-specific line, called "Developer edition", which is intended to be Linux-compatible (it can be indeed be configured with Ubuntu on purchase). Their compatibility is not as good as they say (it needs a couple of tweaks, one of which is crucial, otherwise the machine eats batteries while on standby), but it's still decent. Definitely not "VERY bad".
• tommyage 4y ago
  www.tuxedocomputers.com I never had hand on them yet, but they appear very promising.
  • number6 4y ago
    I am using this one from 2018: https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/de/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/17-3-Zoll/TUXEDO-Book-XC1711.tuxedo https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/de/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note... Which is a https://clevo-computer.com/en/clevo-pa70ep6-g/pa71ep6-g https://clevo-computer.com/en/clevo-pa70ep6-g/pa71ep6-g in fact. It is an excellent laptop, but more on the side of a workstation than on the side of mobility
• jll29 4y ago
  Lenovo ThinkPad X1 or X1 Nano are my favorites. Small, light, but powerful. Before I used the ThinkPad X230 and DELL Latitude 7270, each for many years and bought second hand. The DELL was particularly sturdy. All of these are Ubuntu LTS friendly boxes. Avoid Microsoft Surface Laptops, which require patches to run Linux, Microsoft doesn't offer an Image ready to burn on a stick. And although I'm writing this on an M1 MacBook, I can't recommend that box yet as a primary machine; I use it mostly for making and presenting slides and browsing HN and such, not for serious dev work. In a year's time, this may look different.
  • jrib 4y ago
    What do you find lacking in the m1 to make it your dev machine? The battery on the m1 was to enticing. I went back and forth between a ThinkPad x1 with Linux and this MacBook air. It's impressive and I have no regrets. When there's an arm laptop released with similar performance and battery life I can run Linux on, I'll definitely be picking one up
    • jlokier 4y ago
      > What do you find lacking in the m1 to make it your dev machine? For me, the 16GB RAM limit on the MacBook Air is the principal reason not to get one, otherwise I would have already. As soon as you go to 32GB or more with M1, it's a big price jump to the Pro range, not sub $2000 any more. I have been looking at the M1 MBPs, but the price makes it need justification, and the 2.5 months lead time even at Apple stores for the higher models, has kept me from committing. And when I tried the MBP keyboard in store, it felt not as good as the old <= 2015 keyboards. Firefox in daily use is constantly swapping on my older MBP that has 16GB RAM, and when I used Safari, it wasn't any better. (It was the trigger that made me go back to Firefox, as it used less memory than Safari when I switched). It quickly rises from 10GB to using 30GB after a little browsing; I've seen it go up to 67GB. Some sites will do that with just one tab open. It took me a long time to realise that's why browsing was so janky and pausing a lot, and back when I used Safari everything else paused often too. So I'd not be eager to buy a new laptop with the same problem. Perhaps the Linux dev VM and several Electron-based communication apps that have to be running constantly add up, but it always seems to be the browser that grows to use much more memory than there is available. With Firefox it seems to be a fixable software problem, because when it's triggered to release memory it will drop as fast as it can swap in, with no apparent affect except a long pause. I expect it's all cache. The memory statistics fluctuate very rapidly sometimes, gaining several GB in seconds, even when just clicking around text-only sites like HN. But it's not realistically going to be fixed, so I think it best to get at least 32GB RAM for the next machine, whether it's a Macbook or not.
• scns 4y ago
  Check out Tuxedo Computers, Linux first with a Tux key. You can configure the machine to your liking. If you want compute intesive skip the slim & light ones. They have machines with 45W TDP Ryzens on offer [0]. [0] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/Alle.tuxedo#!#1271,2078;1275,1322 https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note... https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/why-TUXEDO.tuxedo https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/why-TUXEDO.tuxedo https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note... https://github.com/tuxedocomputers https://github.com/tuxedocomputers
• jraph 4y ago
  I'm happy with both my second hand HP Elitebook 840 G6 and the ThinkPad carbon X1 Gen 9 I have for work. I think I like the HP one slightly better: function keys can be set to trigger either F1-F12 or to the actions drawn on them without the Fn key (and the Fn key swaps this). If set to the actions by default, F1-F12 are still automatically used when pressing a modifier key, and no action is on F2, which means I almost never need to use the Fn key for those and I can intuitively use alt+F4. That's not the case on the ThinkPad. It has a proper menu key (on the Thinkpad, they decided to replace it to screen capture, which is on FN+Right Caps on the HP). I like the metal feeling of the case and the feeling of the keyboard (but the ThinkPad is good on these areas too). Both have a touchscreen, and there are visible, diagonal lines on the Thinkpad's screen. Which is not very problematic, but better without. The HP has an Ethernet port, too. I think Linux works slightly better on the HP too: the sound automatically switches to the headphone when plugged, and switches back to the internal speakers when unplugged, on the same distro (openSUSE Tumbleweed). Though that might be some settings issue. S3 sleep works flawlessly on the HP. On the ThinkPad, it is not supported and indeed it does not work well. They decided to switch to whatever Windows decided to do with suspend, which does not really turns off components but put them in low power mode, which is a mess. The ThinkPad is lighter, probably has a better sound from the internal speakers (though the HP's sound is correct too). The trackpoint on the ThinkPad is way more useful, you can scroll with it by holding the touchpad's upper middle button which is not there on the HP. Both have a long battery life. I can recommend both. I've not tried the KDE Slimbook 15, but it is a more expensive rebranded version of another model if I remember correctly.
  • GordonS 4y ago
    Do you have any thermal and/or noise problems with the HP? I've had several HPs over the years, including ZBooks, and every single one got very hot and blasts the fans all the feckin time :/ They were all company machines, but it's put me off ever buying one myself.
    • jraph 4y ago
      No. Actually that was a main requirement for me. I hate noises. The computer is completely silent except when doing heavy computation or maybe long video calls in the browser (and then it's not that bad, though I would not notice that much because my headset blocks a lot of noises), and only if KDE's power setting is not set to power saving (though some things can feel a bit sluggish then). And the computer keeps cool. The 840 G3 was similar in this respect (that's how I discovered the Elitebook, the lab had an agreement with HP at the time), except I had to turn off the secondary HDD I chose to take when tweaking the configuration with hdparm -Y. Though the ZBook seems more focused on performance than the Elitebook, so maybe the Elitebook will not cut it if you expect similar performance. The ThinkPad actually spins its fans more easily than the HP I think, but it is also more powerful. The HP's noise when the fan do spin is also less annoying than the ThinkPad, it's a soft blow.
• rbanffy 4y ago
  Have you thought about a 16G M1 Mac? They are in that range and are incredibly well built. And MacOS is a fine BSD.
  • yellow_lead 4y ago
    > I have no intention of using Windows/MacOS
    • rbanffy 4y ago
      Got to that part after posting this. I too like Gnome better, but I don’t like it better enough not to be tempted.
• cookiengineer 4y ago
  I got myself a T440p because the 4th generation is the last one with replaceable display, battery, RAM and CPU. They're quite heavy but that's not an issue for me. Best bang for the buck I ever spent. Bought it around 2015 in used condition for around 250EUR, then upgraded CPU, RAM, batteries (2x as of now), got a bigger SSD and HDD (512GB+4TB) and got an IPS display and a touchpad of the T480 which fits in there. I just love that laptop. Superb linux support once you figured out how to setup the synaptics driver configs with synclient. Oh and it's also the last generation (afaik) that can run coreboot as a BIOS. Overall I probably spent around 800EUR on it, but considering its lifetime (sold in 2013-today) I say it's definitely worth it. So many "Ultrabooks" and Macbook Pros died on me before, because I always overstressed their GPUs. There's a German Thinkpad wiki that contains all kinds of quirks and potential problems you can get, it's an amazing resource. The tldr is you should update the BIOS first and update the firmware of your dockingstation with windows running, and then install linux to be safe. [1] [1] https://thinkwiki.de/ThinkPad-Modelle https://thinkwiki.de/ThinkPad-Modelle edit: Oh and I used an external m.2 adapter to PCI-e occasionally when I have to do ML related work when I'm not at home on my tower. It kinda works but performance is limited to somewhat PCI-e 4x speed even when it says 8x mode is being used.
  • penner_im_auto 4y ago
    I can confirm that. Also have a T440p And I'm very happy with it. Added a 1 TB SSD, 16 GB RAM, Kubuntu, keep some spare CPUs with different performance levels because I travel a lot. Everything is very easily interchangeable, designed to military standards. I've had my device for 3 years, and it's already suffered bumps and scratches that would break other devices. Got myself a docking station for 25€ for when I am home. It hasn't even crossed my mind to get another device since then.
    • cookiengineer 4y ago
      > It hasn't even crossed my mind to get another device since then. Honestly, I don't even know what to get in case it would break. I even have a spare mainboard just because it was 30 bucks on eBay. But in case it would fail completely, I don't know how to replace it. Most other devices would be a major downgrade in repairability, which I meanwhile value so much that getting yet another Ultrabook that runs 2 years would be no option for me. The framework laptop and the System76 devices look nice, and either of those would probably win in that case, depending on which system is more easily repairable. But still, they're by far not as easily repairable when components break down.
• andrepd 4y ago
  notebookcheck.net has excellent in-depth review and "top 10" lists in various categories (gaming, office, workstation, etc)
• JonChesterfield 4y ago
  Lenovo T14s here (AMD version). Stuff works out of the box on Debian, except for the LTE modem which works after a bit of a struggle. Battery life is better under Windows but I haven't bothered working out why, probably need to set up some power management stuff. Associated dock drives three 1920x1200 screens at the same time as the built-in one.
  • whitefang 4y ago
    Battery life is very bad here.. I've a T14
  • consp 4y ago
    If you have issues with sleep mode draining like crazy: Update the bios and enable "Linux" ACPI mode, which they claim will destroy windows beyond belief but I haven't noticed anything. Since otherwise s3 (aka deep sleep) is disabled and s2idle might be broken prior to the 5.15 kernel.
  • cosmiccatnap 4y ago
    Fyi, they pushed a bios update that fixed my battery issues. It's not m1 good or anything but after the update it's average and sleep works correctly without draining it.
• OJFord 4y ago
  > I looked into the Framework laptops and so far it looks like they are still a bit beta. I'm not sure that's fair, (and it's pedantically wrong - they're in production - but I know what you mean) the hardware is the nicest I've seen besides Macbooks (I agree with you about macOS, but I do like the hardware, keen for Asahi one day but that is very much beta (alpha actually I think)) and Linux is Linux? It works fine out of the box, everything 'in-tree'. Unless you just don't want to buy any company's first product of course, which I suppose is fair enough, but I hope (for the longevity of a company I like & spares/upgrades for my laptop) that enough people don't feel that way.
  • resonious 4y ago
    I use a Framework and it's been fantastic. Even the fingerprint works "out of the box" (in quotes because in Arch Linux nothing is really out of the box... I just had to install the right package). The only particularly disappointing thing is that the battery drains mega fast while suspended. This is something I might be able to tinker away, of course. And for what it's worth, non-functional suspend is basically par for the course for every Windows laptop I've ever owned. Also, I get the feeling that the Framework isn't your typical first product. It's built to be upgradable, so unless you find something fundamentally off-putting about the shape of the board, I'm not sure if you get much by waiting for the next generation. If they release a slimmer case, better keyboard, touch screen, or whatever, then you should be able to retrofit the new thing onto an old machine. Of course, the product is still young. Time will tell if this actually pans out.
    • radicalbyte 4y ago
      > The only particularly disappointing thing is that the battery drains mega fast while suspended That's a killer - it's 2022 and Apple are still the only company who can get that right. I'd switch over to a Framework in an instant (for dual-boot Linux/Windows) if they could fix that.
      • OJFord 4y ago
        I didn't mention it because I don't think it's a Framework issue (GP obviously doesn't have it) but rather my somehow messed up configuration of it, but the one problem I have with mine at the moment is that ten seconds or so after resuming (but not before) everything starts segfaulting, literally any command. And consequently logs don't get written to disk, so there's no record of it after I reboot it (with the physical button, necessarily) - so I'm having a hell of a time trying to debug it...
• indymike 4y ago
  I've been running Ubuntu on an LG Gram 17. Huge screen (true 17"), 18 hour battery and weighs Les than 4 lbs. It also has a metal chassis. Only device that doesn't work is the fingerprint reader.
  • gnfargbl 4y ago
    Another very happy LG Gram / Linux user here. Fingerprint reader seems to work for me, running Ubuntu 22.04.
    • indymike 4y ago
      so... I upgraded to 22.04... and the reader now works.
  • pliuchkin 4y ago
    I've got a LG Gram 16" running with Fedora. Loving it.
  • antongribok 4y ago
    One more very satisfied user of an LG Gram 17. A beautiful LG 2560x1600 screen, amazing (also LG) battery life, less than 3 lbs. I really like the keyboard and touchpad, more so than on a Mac (but that's very personal). The RAM can be upgraded to 40 GB, and there is a second M.2 slot if you want disk mirroring or striping. I run Fedora and have zero problems. (I generally upgrade 3 months after a release.) The model that I have has a 72 Wh battery and newer 17 and 16 inch models now come with an 80 Wh battery. Mine is 3 years old now and it's aged much better than I expected. I can watch a 4K movie over a network CephFS mount and after 2 hours, my battery is at 80%. I bought it on a whim at Costco, and I seriously think I'll get another one next time (maybe a 16"). Costco drops the prices to $350-$400 off every few months, and they're a steal for what you get.
• boomskats 4y ago
  I have a 2nd gen Thinkpad P1 with an H-series intel chip, 64 gigs of ddr4 memory and 2 NVMe SSDs. And a 4k OLED screen. It is divine, I can't recommend it enough.
• fy20 4y ago
  A few years ago I would have said ThinkPads but I think there are better options available now. At the end of last year I wanted to replace my T470, and wanted to upgrade to something with a more powerful (not U-series) CPU. The ThinkPad option that fitted my requirements was on back order for months, so I looked around... The ASUS ROG line of gaming laptops had exactly what I wanted, although they look a bit garish, they are good value for what you get. On Black Friday I got a G14 Zephyrus with a 8c16t Ryzen 9, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD and 14" FHD IPS screen. I think I paid £1300. There's a free RAM slot, so I upgraded to 32GB, I think it supports 48GB max. There are a couple of gotcha's mind you: - It came with a WiFi chip with poor support for Linux (and it wasn't great on Windows). I got an Intel one from eBay for £10 and it took a few minutes to swap out. - You need to restart X to switch from hybrid to integrated graphics, which you want to do on battery to save power. - You need to restart X to switch from integrated to hybrid graphics, which you want to do when you get back to your desk so you can use a USB-C display. - The default fan curves mean the fan turns on and off every few seconds. I changed the settings so it is off most of the time and it runs fine. - The powerbrick that comes with it is heavy. I use a 65W USB-C brick and have no issues for working, but for gaming (it has a RTX 3060) it needs more power. - The model I have has no webcam, that's fixed in this year's modem. Everything else works great. Battery life is 5-6 hours as standard, but if you disable turbo boost and you can get closer to 10 hours.
  • eoerl 4y ago
    I’m using a similar setup (G15) for “AI” dev on Linux, it works very well with the Asus-laptop utils. To complement other points: - you can put the nvidia card in “compute” or “hybrid” mode, which removes the need for X restarts. Compute is really nice, the computer runs on IGP (which is vey capable) and all cuda workloads seamlessly wake up the nvidia card, no question asked - the above means that the pc is nearly silent, maybe helped by the AMD cpu, while being pretty capable with the 8 real zen3 cores - no issues really on Linux, and the Asus-laptop tools allow you to switch off the leds or cap the battery charge. The wifi card was an issue initially, quickly fixed with a newer kernel - the screen is 120Hz, and this is really appreciated actually I would buy a newer version in a pinch
  • doix 4y ago
• flowerbreeze 4y ago
  I use a slimbook with Manjaro/i3, and it's fast. Far more performant than Macbook Pro 2017 13-inch 16GB with iOS I have to use at work (a bit older hardware to be fair) and 1/2 in price. No freezing, can run PyCharm, VSCode and be on a video call with screensharing + run a pacman install at the same time and I've not been able to get it to slow down even a bit. Meanwhile Mac crawls to a halt with Google Meet or Slack calls screen-sharing. This is my setup, so a bit different from yours though: ESS-15-AMD ESSENTIAL 15" AMD Memoria RAM 16GB Teclado Español Sistema Operativo Sin Sistema Pendrive No Wifi Intel AX200 M2 250GB SSD NVMe Modulo SIM NO Procesador Ryzen 5 4500U 659,00 € The only issue I have is the touchpad location and style (no explicit buttons). It's not centered at laptop middle, but instead at text part of keyboard middle, but I mostly only use keyboard. Works ok as long as I reconfigure it to count middle button presses as left-click, otherwise I tend to misclick. Battery life is still about 6-8 hours when using text editor/developing or about 4-5, if watching movies. It's quite heavy laptop, but still fine for couch-slouching. A bit too heavy for travel. It's a year old and so far it does have some discoloration on plastic, but nothing has broken and it feels fairly solid. The KDE Slimbook you've chosen seems to have aluminium body, so it would probably far outlast my basic plastic version.
  • inter_netuser 4y ago
    How good is the keyboard?
    • flowerbreeze 4y ago
      For me, it's good, because I like quite soft and low keys. They still do a mild click and it feels obvious if a key is pressed, but it's not pronounced like on higher-key/mechanical keyboards. What I personally like is that the keyboard is wide enough to have a dedicated num-pad and that the layout is closer to a full-size keyboard than on most other laptops I've had, Ctrl is in left-most position as with normal keyboards with Fn key to the right of it. The Delete/Ins etc are moved to the top row next to F-keys, but I've not found it difficult to adjust to. No complaints so far about any keys stopping from working or feeling odd switching between it and my full-size more clicky keyboard.
• jazzyjackson 4y ago
  serious question: what is the practical difference between MacOS and Linux? Do you have a habit of modifying your wifi drivers and recompiling the source? I am big on open source but have never felt my life was improved chasing dependencies vs just brew install ... I have never had a satisfactory battery + sleep/standby experience on a linux machine, vs a Mac I can leave unplugged for weeks and it wakes back up where I left off, battery still holding charge, so I'm just curious what is worth the tradeoff, especially when your priorities are battery life, computational performance, and hardware longevity (I get a new MacBook every ~5 years)
  • afarrell 4y ago
    The thing I miss most from Linux is strace. This is far outweighed by 1. The much frequency with which stuff just works on OSX. 2. The opportunities to spend $30 on an app instead of $300-$800 worth of time on software that is Free as in Puppy.
    • usr1106 4y ago
      Are you serious? There is nothing comparable to strace on MacOS? strace can save you so much time if some software (your own or not) just doesn't work like you want. Of course problems 100% in user space are not covered. But I find a fair share of real world problems are.
      • jlokier 4y ago
        > Are you serious? There is nothing comparable to strace on MacOS? There's dtruss, but the information and options are nowhere near as useful as strace, and for some system calls it prints errors instead. read() and write() print access errors so you can't see what's read and written, same with stat/fstat, you just get an address, no file information. Perhaps strace could be ported to MacOS but it's not. "brew install strace" says "strace: Linux is required for this software." :-)
  • funklute 4y ago
    For a start, the hardware. I hate working on glossy screens, and it's not possible these days to get macs with matte screens (I know I can install a diffuser, but for the price point apple operates at, I shouldn't need to spend extra money on adapting the hardware). Also, bugs in the OS where you're completely at the mercy of Apple. I like to do custom re-mappings on my keyboard, and the last time I tried a mac (around 2016), the keyboard reverted to the default layout every time I viewed a pdf. At the time, there was no way of fixing this issue. Along with the glossy screen, this issue convinced me that MacOS was not at the time a viable platform for me.
• bodge5000 4y ago
  These threads always surprise me with the number of people who buy new thinkpads. Nothing wrong with them I'm sure (well, maybe a few things wrong with them), I just never even considered it as an option. I recently picked up an old 2005-ish (edit: 2011 actually) x220 for a few hundred quid off ebay which seems to be running nicely. Specs aren't anything to shout about but it works fine for what it is. Durability wise, its clearly been running for at least 15 (edit: 10?) years so its got something to it.
  • zhdc1 4y ago
    > I recently picked up an old 2005-ish x220 for a few hundred quid off ebay which seems to be running nicely. The x220 launched in 2011. It's an old machine, but not that old. That said, I ran one myself for years and highly recommend it if you need a barebones, durable laptop for under 200ish.
    • bodge5000 4y ago
      Yep, your right. I did a google search and it came up with 2005, but that turned out to be the entire X-series. Cheers Google.
  • culopatin 4y ago
    Someone bought that laptop new at some point.
  • mtreis86 4y ago
    I also have a x220. A couple of the benefits/tradeoffs: The keyboard is the best, I have never used a laptop with a better one. Using a dual core sandybridge is slow but if you develop on a slow machine you'll never build something your customers can't use. You can install coreboot on it and remove IME. It is on the list of systems Qubes (and every other Linux) runs 100% on. The screen is only 720p but you can install a 1080p with a mod. 12in is borderline too small a screen size but the laptop is compact. An extended battery in it gets around 8hrs of use. Almost the entire machine is magnesium, aside from a strip of plastic at the top covering the antennas. It can actually run 1600mhz 16gb of RAM.
• dom96 4y ago
  > 2. Linux support: I use Linux as my OS of choice and I have no intention of using Windows/MacOS If there is any leeway here, I would seriously recommend switching. You cannot beat the M1 MacBooks and macOS is close enough to Linux anyway.
  • pure_simplicity 4y ago
    And with Asahi, you may not even need to compromise on the linux part, though it will take some time before the first stable release.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
• Schopenhauer01 4y ago
  Get the latest thinkpad in X series or X1C. Might not be the best choice, but it still works. Rugged, good keyboard.
  • inter_netuser 4y ago
    How’s the trackpad? Is good keyboard quantifiable somehow? As good as old T?
• zhdc1 4y ago
  Put 350USD aside and pickup the best Lenovo T series laptop you can find on Ebay.
• pcdoodle 4y ago
  I'd go for the framework. They're going so over the top that it's wrong to not support that company.
• haspok 4y ago
  > "battery life" vs "Optimized for intensive computing usage" These are contradicting conditions. (Unless maybe on an M1?) If you do use the CPU then battery life will drop even for the best laptops to a few hours max, while the fans will spin like crazy emulating a helicopter taking off. All the above mentioned laptops will behave like that. At my last place I had a Thinkpad P1 which is supposedly for the above mentioned purpose, and still I suffered from heating and noise, and the battery life was abysmal (2 hours of Zoom call would deplete it, for example). Although I just noticed that you didn't mention portability - in which case buy an older Thinkpad T4xx/5xx which had the dual battery setup, and buy some additional batteries too, and you can swap them on the fly. Sadly AFAIK Lenovo no longer makes these laptops... Battery life tips: 1. get the simplest screen (FHD instead of 4K, 90Hz...). 2. don't get an integrated 3D card.
  • lelanthran 4y ago
    > Battery life tips: 1. get the simplest screen (FHD instead of 4K, 90Hz...). 2. don't get an integrated 3D card. This sounds counter-intuitive. I thought integrated graphics used less power than a discrete amd/nvidia card.
    • adrusi 4y ago
      Yes, I can only imagine the parent made a very unfortunate choice of wording, meaning "integrated" as in "integrated into the laptop," and "3d card" as "discrete graphics card." You definitely want A graphics card for battery life (not that you can buy a laptop without one) and you want it to be one integrated into the CPU.
  • kitsunesoba 4y ago
    Yeah, it’s an unfortunate reality with your bog standard x86 laptop. Choose performance or portability, silence, and battery life, but not both. And sometimes even when you pick your trade-off, it still doesn’t work out. See my Thinkpad X1 Nano I selected as a silent ultraportable with decent battery life — it spins its fan up to surpassingly loud levels when plugging in a 2560x1440 60hz display or whenever it’s doing anything even remotely strenuous. If my needs for that machine didn’t include Windows, I would have been so much better served by an M1 MacBook Air it’s not even funny (and even then, I sometimes wonder if a bodge of Windows on ARM in a VM on an M1 Air wouldn’t work better).
• lelanthran 4y ago
  Depends on the development. I am doing C development, with some Javascript thrown in for the client, quite comfortably on a laptop from 2008 (Core 2 Duo, 2GB of RAM, 320GB spinning rust HDD). I use WindowMaker, Firefox, Xterm, Vim, Git, Clang and GCC. from login Window to my first xterm opened in the project directory is around 500ms. My build (C only) is currently around 700ms. My editing is lag-free only as long as Vim's 'cul' option is turned off.
  • forinti 4y ago
    I have a Core 2 Duo laptop. I pimped it up to 3GB of RAM and an SSD. I also installed Ubuntu Mate. It works great for remote work, when I mostly just use it as a terminal into my workstation. I can also use MS Teams on it without issues. I read somewhere that it might support 5GB of RAM (4GB + 1GB), but I don't want to spend more money on it on a gamble.
  • nullbytesmatter 4y ago
    What cul option? Cursor line highlighting? I also recommend putting synmaxcol to something low, like 80-128.
    • lelanthran 4y ago
      > What cul option? Cursor line highlighting? yes. > I also recommend putting synmaxcol to something low, like 80-128. I'll keep that in mind if it slows down, but TBH it's working just fine right now.
• gameswithgo 4y ago
  Framework laptop. I think the concerns about it being beta are unfounded, the few quirks it has are also had by Lenovo/Dell etc but you don’t have a discerning userbase talking about a single model so much.
• yread 4y ago
  get an hp elitebook in the 8 series (830, 835, 840, 845) the cheapest one with 400 nit screen and put as much ram and ssd as your budget allows, maintenance is easy nothing is soldered. I spent less than 2k on mine
• lhl 4y ago
  There was a recent discussion on the StarBook: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31034024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31034024 - in the comments I mention a few other laptops I've been looking at that may be of interest as well as my own review/experience w/ a laptop w/ the same chassis as the KDE Slimbook 15/Tuxedo Pulse 15.
  • ajb 4y ago
    Tuxedo pulse15 is great. Only issue I have so far is that I have a crumb stuck under the shift key and haven't figured out how to get it out without damaging the key. It's a very flat keyboard which may not be for everyone.
    • _raz 4y ago
      Best laptop i ever had
    • tsak 4y ago
      Have you tried compressed air? I had a similar problem with an old 12" MacBook with the old super shallow keyboard and compressed air helped me blow crumbs out.
      • ajb 4y ago
        That just worked! Thanks!
    • lhl 4y ago
      If the compressed air suggestion doesn't work, you could also try 90%+ isopropyl alcohol which might work to dissolve any bits and is electronics/keyboard safe. Otherwise, drop a line to Tuxedo support, I've seen XMG/Tuxedo guys be very active on their forums/subreddits, so I think you have a good chance of getting a useful response from them.
• shireboy 4y ago
  Unless you’re training some ml models or doing heavy graphics, you might not need super heavy compute/gpu. If you do need, then remote into a desktop or vm is another option. I have for the past 5 years or so focused on battery life over compute for my machines and then used RDP to access a VM dev machine hosted in azure. It’s worked great, and I was able to use free azure credits that came with msdn. You can do similar with ec2 and google compute. There are also container based dev environment services out there now. The benefit being you don’t need dev cruft on your everyday carry laptop. Plus if you get a new laptop or have multiple, your dev environment doesn’t change. That said I did just switch to an m1 max as I also need to do Xcode. That has been a solid machine, though might be above budget. You could run Linux on it pretty sure.
• kfrzcode 4y ago
  https://frame.work https://frame.work
• kfrzcode 4y ago
  What does "a bit beta" mean?
• icharters 4y ago
  • rhamzeh 4y ago
    True, but it is not a tool that works for everyone. In my case, I consider the Mac one of the cons of working at my current place of work. My days are filled with minor hassles that I could really do without. Doing simple things takes longer, and I have to deal with random freezes, slowdowns and even crashes that I did not have to deal with when using my own laptop for similar needs over the past couple of years (mostly dev related with minor content editing). So again, it is a tool, but it is not the best tool for the job for every person, especially developers.
    • icharters 4y ago
      Random freezes, slowdowns and crashes? Care to elaborate? What languages and tooling are you using that is giving that sort of grief? That is completely counter my experience.
      • jdavis703 4y ago
        Sounds like the poster is having power management issues. Could be a dirty fan or a bad chip. I’ve dealt with the latter and it was fixed under warranty.
        • FillardMillmore 4y ago
          I've been using a MacBook Pro 2015 for a while now for my personal stuff - it's been nothing but reliable for everything from programming to surfing the web to DJ mixing. Just recently, the battery cycles exceeded normal usage and I got a notification from the system that the 'Battery should be replaced soon' - almost as soon as this happened, I experienced random slowdowns, freezing, etc just doing low-intensity tasks like browsing this site. Open up Activity Monitor and find that the 'kernel_task' is absolutely throttling my CPU. Long story short, this particular MacBook Pro had a battery recall and Apple replaced mine for free - worked just like new after that, which I'm grateful for since it's basically the best laptop I've ever used.
• zamalek 4y ago
  Just some general advice: > https://kfocus.org/order/order-m2.html https://kfocus.org/order/order-m2.html NVIDIA gets really old, really fast. My personal laptop has an NVIDIA GPU and AMD iGPU, my desktop is AMD. For my laptop, a zen2 build of the kernel nets me about 15% more battery life and a snappier system. Unfortunately NVIDIA makes installing that kernel tedious, so I just run the regular kernel. I also have to install the proprietary drivers because noveau keeps crashing (across multiple distros). n=1 and everything, but I'd strongly recommend avoiding NVIDIA and going with either an Intel iGPU or AMD iGPU/dGPU. Unless you want to do some ML, in which case NVIDIA is a must.
  • neverminder 4y ago
    Nvidia is also better for HiDPI because they use faster RAM. I have dual 4K 144Hz screens, so unfortunately for the time being I have to stick with Nvidia.
  • belthesar 4y ago
    I'm going to hard second this. The ease and stability I gained from switching off the Nvidia closed source drivers to the open source AMD drivers has been nothing short of stellar.
    • bduerst 4y ago
      Third. NVidia drivers were the bane of my existence for a while, and became such a time suck when I wanted to be doing other things.
  • akvadrako 4y ago
    Unfortunately, the options with AMD dGPUs are very limited, I'd guess about 5% of what's out there with Nvidia. The new ASUS ROG Zephyrus G14 looks like a good option; my only concern is poor black levels.
    • allisdust 4y ago
      +1 for zephyrus (though I'm using last year's model). Thanks to the hard working asus-linux community, most of the hardware features are controllable seamlessly through GUI software (fan profiles, switching between gpus, keyboard lights etc). Goes well with Fedora because they have the latest kernels with stable releases.
• Darmody 4y ago
  Check the Slimbook Executive. I think it's the coolest Slimbook.
• donnythecroc 4y ago
  Msi
• rla3rd 4y ago
  You can pick up a Lenovo P1 Gen 2 with decent specs for about 1000 to 1500 on ebay. Max ram is 64MB and usually comes with an i7. The battery life isnt great if it has a built in Nvidia quadro card, I get about 4 hours. I bought it to be able to do ML with it. My only regret is getting one with the nvidia card built in. I believe it gets about 8 hours without it. I ended up buying a RTX 3080 Aorus Gaming Box to do ML instead via the laptops thunderbolt port. No matter what you get, if you want to do ML on it. I highly suggest just getting a laptop with at least a thunderbolt 3 port, and just skip on having an nvidia card built in.
  • StillBored 4y ago
    Yah, unless you absolutely need the discreet GPU, avoid it like the plague on the P1s. Mine cannot be fully disabled in the BIOS/etc, and its required to drive external displays. With Linux its hit/miss whether the machine works properly with any given linux distro nouveau vs the proprietary driver setup. I'm in the situation where neither driver works 100%, and I just wish the laptop was wired correctly to just use the integrated GPU for everything like my older thinkpad. (AKA nouveau suspends/resumes properly, but can't seem to drive my monitors consistently, while the nvidia driver refuses to resume properly and breaks secure boot, etc).
• rubyist5eva 4y ago
  I would get a System76 Lemur Pro with whatever upgrades for your budget, or whatever other form factor that suits your tastes really.
  • dbatten 4y ago
    Lemur Pro owner here. I personally have super-mixed feelings about the machine. Pros: Battery life is excellent. Used it for 12 hours while walking around a factory doing an IT system install, never had to charge it. Slim form factor is nice. With an upgrade to an i7, additional RAM, SSD, etc., performance is good for any task not requiring a GPU. It would easily be the best laptop I've ever owned, except for... Cons: WiFi chipset died within months of purchase and had to be replaced. Battery swelled by year 2 to the point that the mouse was unusable, so battery had to be replaced as well. The machine shipped with Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, which had a Linux kernel bug that caused the machine to freeze when trying to throttle up/down the i7 CPU for power management purposes. I contacted System76 about the problem, and they didn't know anything about it... I ended up having to troubleshoot it myself, at which point I told them the issue, and they sent out an email about the fix to (what I assume was) all Lemur Pro owners. I thought buying a Linux laptop from a company that specializes in making Linux laptops would let me avoid these kinds of nagging issues around things like drivers and power management bugs, but alas it did not. More startlingly, I would have expected a company that specializes in Linux laptops to at least be AWARE of such an issue on their machines, but it seems they had no idea... I feel like I would have been just as well off going with a Thinkpad. Related final pro: It was frustrating to have to replace multiple parts in this machine (especially so early in its life), but I have to give credit to System76's self-install policy. They sent me the parts and detailed instructions for doing the repairs myself. Saved so much headache. Overall, I really want to love my System76, but I'd have to think really hard before buying another one.
  • blumomo 4y ago
    Another Lemur Pro owner. Short essence: Casing quality is rather poor, if you like "used look" after 6 months, you may actually enjoy it. Wears off very fast. However being able to modify their firmware (I remapped quite some keys) and given that the battery can run up to 2 business days, I'd consider buying this device again. No hardware/software (using their Pop_OS!) issues since using for it 15 months now. Ah, and I like how slim and light weight it is (roughly 1kg).
• sethgoodluck 4y ago
  tl;dr: Find a used T480s for like $500. Upgrade its RAM and replace its battery if you need. Install PopOS and Regolith PPA. You'll be a happy camper. ---- MORE: Librems looked pretty cool. I might get one next. But I've been running my T480s since 2018 and it is still going strong, I don't imagine I'll replace it unless I drop it on hard ground... wait I've done that. or spill coffee on it... wait I did that too. Did I mention they were durable as heck? For software: I run PopOS for ubuntu-easy software and compatbility with a Regolith PPA because i3 window managers are amazing. Since its a thinkpad, you can swap out and replace most parts easily including the battery when it eventually wears out (literally takes <10 minutes).
• ineedasername 4y ago
  No Intel proc with a U, T or Y suffix. These are all lower power versions that won't sustain high performance. You absolutely sacrifice battery significantly with anything else though when under sustained high performance, including strong AMD processors, but they may do a little better. Next is discrete graphics. If you just need multiple monitors, an Intel G CPU will usually do it. If you need discrete GPU, again you're going to sacrifice on battery. For longevity, you might want to consider a Xeon laptop. Lenovo has these, so they're one option. One measure of how much sustained performance a laptop can take is the charger wattage, usually buried in the spec sheet. In my experience chargers are rated only slightly higher than the wattage necessary to keep the machine going at top performance. A laptop with a low wattage charger is unlikely to sustain top performance for long. But it depends on your definition of "sustain". 10 minutes? Half an hour? Constant load of 60, 70, 80%? The charger heuristic just weeds out low power though. There's less of a guarantee that a higher wattage charger == higher sustained performance.
• krnlpnc 4y ago
  If choosing to run linux on a laptop the model doesn’t matter very much. You’ll spend a chunk of time solving driver issues and managing power consumption with virtually every laptop out there. Look at Lenovo and Dell
• altitudinous 4y ago
  Whatever laptop you already own.
• martibravo 4y ago
  Asus TUF Dash Gaming 15 user here: I cannot recommend it enough. - Intel i7 H series processor (best mobile Intel chips) - Upgradeable RAM (currently at 24GB) - Intel Wifi 6 - Nvidia RTX 3060 - FullHD Screen with 144Hz - Comfortable keyboard with backlight - Two M.2 slots, laptop came with 500GB but added an extra 2TB. - Good connecticity: HDMI, Ethernet, 3 full-size USBA 3.1 ports, 1 Thunderbolt port. - Laptop runs on a 200W brick with a barrel connector, but on the go I plug it to a USBC 100W charger, works flawlessly. - Good build quality: back of screen is aluminum, laptop itself is made with plastic with no deck flex or other problems. - Only deal-breaker, not for me though, is the lack of webcam. I have a small USB one that attaches to the screen when needed. Battery life is around 9h for me doing Node.js backend development with VSCode, Firefox with +40tabs, PostgreSQL and Docker running the server running locally. It lasts longer with the screen set to 60Hz and tinkering with the power settings to disable the Nvidia card when only doing CPU-intensive jobs. Best of all: I only paid €999 ($1,081 taxes included) for it on Amazon Spain. Plus the SSD and extra RAM.
  • geekifier 4y ago
    That 1080p screen would be hard to get used to after working on crisp MBP screens. Especially when staring at text all day. The rest of the laptop does look great for the price.
    • martibravo 4y ago
      AFAIK there are/were some 1440p versions available in the US. I'm from Europe so I didn't see them.
    • usr1106 4y ago
      It takes a day or 2 and you are used to the lower resolution again. It's not that the visible pixels would hinder readability. It's all psychological: Those who feel that nice looking fonts are important will be hard to convince. Probably also a status symbol for some. I prefer longer battery life and generally hate products and vendors wasting resources. I got HiDPI on my work laptop, but would switch back to a lower resolution any day. Use it regularly in other setups.
• jbj 4y ago
  I got a lenovo P15 last year with some of the cheapest specs in that price range. It has official ubuntu support, and you can get under the hood to add ram/ssd later.
• hpcjoe 4y ago
  I have several different laptops. Current main (the unit I'm typing this on) is Linux Mint 20.2 based, AMD Zen2 8c/16t, 64GB ram, 3TB NVME, Renior (AMD) and 1660Ti (NVidia) based. HP Omen 15 2020 edition. I get about 3-4 hours of battery life (meh), with iGPU (AMD). Very light. Good keyboard, and trackpad. Everything works under linux, though sometimes the BT vanishes (I think I need to reseat that, but I was lazy and installed a $10 USB BT5.1 adapter). I do heavy development/builds/testing on it. I run windows in a kvm instance window if I need it (less than once per quarter at this point). Came w/o OS. Bought it on Amazon late 2020 for about $1850 or so. The laptop it replaced (though still alive) is a Sager 4c/8t Intel with GTX 1060 ish dGPU, Intel iGPU, 64 GB ram, and 1.5 TB SSD. Very capable machine, though battery life is abysmal. Maybe an hour. Its my current living room machine. Came pre-installed with Windows, but I installed 2 SSDs, and bumped the memory from 16GB to 64GB. Reworked the boot and virtualized windows (windows should never touch physin government's Federal Ministry of Education and Research.cal hardware). Bought in 2018 for about $2200. It is heavy, bulky, good workhorse, but older Intel CPU. I also have a Sager I bought in 2010. Still works, 16GB ram, 4c/8t, 500GB SSD, GTX 560m graphics. Its my basement lab machine. All 3 run Linux Mint 20.2. All function well (even the old machine). I expect I won't need to replace the new machine for quite some time. That said, work laptop is finally a Mac, having been stuck on horrible Windows machines from Dell. Had many driver/OS problems with windows, machines crashed regularly. BSOD and others. Newer M1 Pro now. Far more stable than windows, almost ... almost as good a UX as linux. CPUs are fast, though even with Homebrew, I can't build everything. This one ran the company about $3500 or so. YMMV, but the HP Omen series is nice.
  • hpcjoe 4y ago
    s/physin government's Federal Ministry of Education and Research./physi/g sigh fat fingered this one
• noduerme 4y ago
  This is probably an unpopular view, but I kind of use laptops as if they were terminals. If you want to spend $2k, I'd invest $1600 of that in a great desktop machine, and spend the other $400 on a cheap chromebook and tablets / keyboards / gizmos to log into it remotely.
  • tikkabhuna 4y ago
    I agree with this. I bought a Dell XPS 15 a few years ago with discrete GPU with the hope of using it for dev/mild gaming. Its now just used for remote desktop. Horses for courses though. If I didn't have space for a desktop I'd be happy to have the XPS 15. Multi-monitor is my big requirement when it comes to development. The 15" screen is good, but it doesn't beat a proper side by side setup.
  • jnwatson 4y ago
    I agree, except I haven’t found a ChromeBook I’ve liked. For $900, you can buy an M1 MacBook Air. It is the sexiest dumb terminal I’ve ever used. I had used Linux on a laptop for about 15 years prior. It is a fine 90% solution. The Air is barely the same class of device: no noise, almost instant-on, battery lasts forever.
    • avel 4y ago
      I was indifferent to chromebooks, until the Lenovo Ideapad Duet 5 (13.3"). Very cool machine.
    • trenchgun 4y ago
      Agreed with M1 MacBook Air.
    • ramesh31 4y ago
      >For $900, you can buy an M1 MacBook Air. It is the sexiest dumb terminal I’ve ever used. There's something ironic and wonderful about a laptop with more processing power than an i7 desktop being called a dumb terminal.
    • lhl 4y ago
• JabavuAdams 4y ago
  ** "I don't want to use a Mac" ** "I've had these problems with Mac" Reasonable response: Cool, use what works for you. EDIT> Here are some suggestions that match your constraints. Annoying response 1: You should reconsider because Mac works great for me. Annoying response 2: Your problems aren't real problems. Annoying response 3: Let's live debug your problems in this thread to see if they're real problems. Guys. I mean. Seriously.
  • fortran77 4y ago
    Proper response 1: Ignore this whole thread.
  • ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
    It's every Ask HN thread, every time I want to ask a question here I give up because I find myself listing the obvious, requirement-breaking answers that I know will come but that I don't want to see. It's not like stack-overflow where often the users are beginners and don't know what they want and it's sometimes helpful to point out XY problems. Here people are technically literate and know what they want yet the requirements are still ignored.
    • nanidin 4y ago
      I guess that if someone can’t articulate why they do or don’t want something, someone who is passionate about that thing sees their chance to help someone see the light. I then guess that the solution to giving requirements like “not a mac” is to also articulate why at a level that the audience will respect. OP has already made the mistake of asking for something very broad in the title, then asking for something very specific in the body. If the title read “Linux laptop” I doubt they would have as many people in the comments suggesting anything else.
      • akhmatova 4y ago
        If the title read “Linux laptop” I doubt they would have as many people in the comments suggesting anything else. Sorry, but that's a cop-out. As others have point out, the real problem is "people just don't read these days". Not even the top few lines of a post. If they did, they would have had no problem finding this important qualifier: I have no intention of using Windows/MacOS
• Volrath89 4y ago
  I’ve been very satisfied with a Thinkpad E15, AMD Ryzen 7, 32GB of RAM, 1 TB SSD. Costed $1800 Before that I had another thinkpad that served me well for 5 years. It was actually still going strong but I figured out I wanted to upgrade before the coming Taiwan crisis just in case. Now I plan to own this laptop for hopefully a decade
• amir734jj 4y ago
  System76. They have great customer service and contribute to open source community. Support them.
  • krageon 4y ago
    This shop is very US-centric and it also appears that you cannot figure out what shipping will cost unless you create an account. This is not a good first impression.
    • fullstop 4y ago
      Shipping for me (in 2020) was $35.32.
• simjnd 4y ago
  Huawei’s MateBooks are really good: great hardware, good specs, and good Linux support (doesn’t ship with it but you can install it)
• jmsa 4y ago
  After a ton of research I picked up a Dell XPS 15 (9510) around the holidays for roughly 1600 USD and switched from OSX to Manjaro and I'm in love. 11th gen 11900H processor. I started with the super high def display but returned it for the FHD display. The resolution of the FHD is more than sufficient (it's actually GREAT), the battery life is better, and it's matte display is much easier on my eyes. Things I love - 16GB of RAM (that is upgradable, and will be upgraded), two SSD slots (both occupied). I set it up to hibernate since s3 sleep is gone. I open/close my lid many, many times per day, and it comes back quickly enough for me (probably ~5s). And I appreciate that it's totally powered off that way when the lid is closed. The only hardware issue I'm aware of is the two extra subwoofer speakers don't yet work in Linux, and they sound really good in Windows (I kept a dual boot, but I very, very rarely use it). But the speakers still sound decent w/o the subs running, much much better than my wife's Ideapad. I don't know if the fingerprint scanner is operational and don't care about that, but everything else works well. I do lots of Zoom calls, camera is fine, etc, etc. I code on it all day almost every day, and the keyboard is a high point. I'm a trackpad user, and Linux trackpad is subpar, but after a ton of tweaking I'm happy and functional.
• croutonwagon 4y ago
  Have you considered System76? https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops Another one i found interesting is the framework laptop. Its completely modular. https://frame.work/ https://frame.work/ And apparently their firmware is opensource. https://frame.work/blog/open-sourcing-our-firmware https://frame.work/blog/open-sourcing-our-firmware That said if you are looking to play games or have a dedicated graphics card your options will be severely limited.
  • julianlam 4y ago
    Depends on the games I suppose. The games I like (CS, sleeping dogs, cities skylines) all run spectacularly on a Ryzen 3 desktop (not System76) Well, I haven't actually tried the last one since I added more RAM, but I imagine it would work well too.
  • kellogs_aran 4y ago
    Hi. OP here. I read some of the previous HN threads on System76 and just laptops generally and it seems like these won't be a good fit for me now. Maybe later when both products are a bit more mature.
    • croutonwagon 4y ago
      Yeah understandable. We all have our own requirements that change up our own decision. For example i CANT stand large laptops. 12.5-14" is my max. That excludes a lot of options though.
• jwalton 4y ago
  Lenovo has some pretty good sales on thinkpad X1s (at least they do in Canada - didn't check the US site). But, if you're in Canada, I just bought this: https://www.newegg.ca/p/N82E16834233446?Description=gigabyte%20aero%2015&cm_re=gigabyte_aero%2015-_-34-233-446-_-Product https://www.newegg.ca/p/N82E16834233446?Description=gigabyte... It's got a gorgeous 4K OLED screen, a quite decent CPU and GPU, and it's currently $350 off + a $300 mail in rebate (there was an additional $350 off over the easter weekend, too). The track pad is not my favorite, but it's good enough, and the keyboard is very decent. I haven't had it very long and mostly it's plugged in so I can't comment too much about battery life. My biggest complaint is that the screen is too good. When I'm done with the laptop and come up to my desktop, my IPS screens look washed out and sad. :P Edit: I didn't buy the X1, I bought a Gigabyte Aero 15.
  • avel 4y ago
    I am happier with the 1080p screen on the X1. Better performance, less headaches with non-high-dpi-friendly apps, better symmetry when connecting to a non-4k external monitor.
    • colordrops 4y ago
      I'd recommend a 1440p screen, so that the dot pitch would be roughly the same as your external monitor, assuming it's 4k.
    • rodelrod 4y ago
      Same experience. Makes life easier with no downsides I can perceive.
    • hknapp 4y ago
      I think they are 1200p now also.
  • linza 4y ago
    How does the display work for you in bright daylight? I couldn't find any definitive information about the OLED option if it's more glossy or more matte.
• controlledchaos 4y ago
  I love my Lenovo Thinkpad (X1 Carbon). From the little things like hardware switches for the webcam and microphone to the big things like the excellent keyboard feel and Linux support (I use Manjaro). HOWEVER, get the premium screen, because WOW the 1080p screen isn’t great.
  • lb1lf 4y ago
    This. I love my current one to bits (X1c 7th gen) - almost weightless, sturdy, excellent battery life, excellent connectivity, wonderful keyboard. Oh, and the 1080 screen, which isn't great, but did help improve battery life significantly over the other offerings. I get a full work day out of mine without a charge, which is most useful whenever I'm in the field.
    • synergy20 4y ago
      I have 4 of them for family members. Myself uses Dell XPS15 but it's from the employer. I will get myself a Carbon X1 more likely for personal usage. Lightweight, robust, powerful enough for development and daily use, we had them for a few years, no complain so far.
• dqpb 4y ago
  Refurbished Dell XPS
• lultimouomo 4y ago
  I saved this HN comment in my favorites a week ago, has some good options that should be available soon: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31036929 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31036929
• kache_ 4y ago
  lenovo. slap linux on it
• inetknght 4y ago
  I recommend System76 laptops. The Serval WS has full desktop class hardware in a laptop chassis (so battery life is a distant second -- my Serval WS lasts for about 40-90 minutes on battery depending on workload). Their other product offerings are pretty good too. And, best of all, they provide first-class Linux support and provide their own Ubuntu-derived distribution, Pop!_OS.
  • acidburnNSA 4y ago
    I love my system76 lemur pro. It has amazing battery life. It's quite small and isn't going to be the most powerful thing in the world. I remote into my ryzen 5950x desktop when I need real power
• cs702 4y ago
  As a longtime user of System76 servers, desktops, and laptops, I can recommend them. * The hardware has always been "more than good enough." I mean, you can always nitpick about some or other detail, but the machines work, they work well out-of-the-box with Linux, and they last a long time. We still have eight-year-old machines that are humming along. * Support has always been outstanding at everything from answering questions to sending replacement parts with detailed how-to instructions. On one occasion we sent them an older machine for fixing and shipping back, and they handled it flawlessly. * Most importantly, I've always felt that everyone we've interacted with at System76 actually cares about me as a customer. They're not a charitable organization, so they need to make money, but I've always gotten the sense that doing right by customers is a higher priority.
  • jasoneckert 4y ago
    I second System76 for these exact reasons as well. I like their hardware and Pop!_OS customizations, but I love their company and support.
• rufius 4y ago
  Framework. I use mine as a daily driver. Gets about 13 hours of battery life and It’s repairable.
• brudgers 4y ago
  The best $2000 laptop is ten used Latitudes. Laptops are cattle, not pets.
• freemint 4y ago
  My advice is wait. There is much interesting silicon coming out this year. Wait till the end of the yearish and you will have much better options. Especially if some of your compute can happen on GPUs.
• talentedcoin 4y ago
  For what it's worth, I have been using cheap-o refurbished HP Elitebooks (the 830) off of eBay running Fedora and they are great. I have been running my old one for years and years and the new one for about a year or so. Battery life erodes over time but a new battery will fix it right up. It depends what kind of development you're doing, of course. I am not sure what intensive computer usage means to you, but I would say I use it intensively! But I am not doing anything that requires a GPU nor am I re-compiling kernels every day. But for my humble needs I've found it's a cost-effective solution that holds up quite well.
• agentultra 4y ago
  Consider buying used/upcycled. With Linux you're in good hands: the older models tend to have better support. The T-series Thinkpads are excellent. They're rugged and designed for falls, spills, and travelling. There are still manufacturers producing extended battery packs and chargers for them. They're designed to be upgraded and modified. Bonus: you'll save some silicon from reaching a landfill for a few more years. And they're cheap. If one bites the dust you can replicate your setup to a new one and get going again without breaking bank for another $2k. Unless you're planning on doing bleeding-edge real-time 3D graphics work, the likelihood that you need a big, expensive machine is pretty low. Depending on the software stack you intend to work on you might not even need that much RAM (though if you're doing stuff in bleeding edge C++, Rust, or Haskell I'd recommend >16GB).
• Freaken 4y ago
  I can vouch for the Framework. It doesn't feel beta at all. I'm running Xubuntu 21.10 on it an it rocks. Someone created a repo with salt scripts which works all the kinks of the laptop under Ubuntu. The only thing I needed it for was to fix the touchpad issue after resume from sleep (it would be at max acceleration) and to enable hibernate (just note that you must disable secure boot first). https://github.com/lightrush/framework-laptop-formula https://github.com/lightrush/framework-laptop-formula
  • jamal-kumar 4y ago
    I can't vouch from personal experience but the framework is so good that one of my friends is just giving away his old laptop to me, which I think says a lot
  • nickstinemates 4y ago
    +1 for Framework laptop. On the road and typing from one now.
  • aquaticsunset 4y ago
    +1 to the Framework as well. My only issue is the aforementioned sleep power draw, but they're a pretty smart group of folks. I'm pretty sure they'll figure this out in time.
  • tomrod 4y ago
    +1 for Framework as well. With recently launching a company, I have been evaluating laptop builds for my soon-to-hire employees. Thinkpads were at the top followed by XPS builds (which have been terribly variable in quality in recent year, unfortunately). I am now using a Framework as a daily driver w/ Fedora and it is wonderful! Deep sleep needs work still, but everything else is working great. Plus Framework works well with Windows as well.
    • kellogs_aran 4y ago
      Hi. OP here. ThinkPads have come up a lot generally in this and other threads. I am definitely considering them too. The Framework Laptop still has some issues that need ironing out from what I could tell so cannot to commit to them this time round. Will definitely keep an eye on them though. Thank you.
• bo1024 4y ago
  Purism Librem 14 Is my daily driver currently running Linux mint. - overall very happy with it for my uses. I don’t do a lot of intense workloads on the laptop, mostly stuff like text editing and latex compiling. - battery is great. With screen brightness reasonably low and working on low intensity tasks, I could get 8 hours I think pretty easily. Probably 3 hours of video calls. - durability is good so far. My librem 13 lasted about 4 years before succumbing to a hinge issue which I believe has been addressed for the 14s - ergonomics are good for me, trackpad keyboard etc. are great especially once you get used to them. - expect some challenges if you’re going to run a different distro. Be prepared to put in some effort. Things are probably better now it’s been out longer. - due to foss requirements the wifi range isn’t the greatest. You can easily and cheaply switch out the card if you want. - One issue I had was plugging in a certain external dock to the usb c port and the entire computer shuts off immediately. - not sure how it fares for intense compute tasks. I rarely get any fan noise but sometimes it will kick in noticeably. I also echo others that, depending on the battery life situation, take another look at framework. I haven’t put a ton of hours on it yet but a very pleasant machine.
  • kop316 4y ago
    Second a Purism librem 14. It is a really high quality design, the SW support is fantastic, and it is easy to repair.
  • ibejoeb 4y ago
    Do you have the 3-cell or the 4-cell battery? > expect some challenges if you’re going to run a different distro. There are some battery life/suspend issues that seem to be rooted in the disabled intel ME. I'll have to track it down, but I recall purism trying to get a kernel patch upstream from their PureOS. It surfaced on Arch, but I haven't seen it on Qubes, which is their other first-class OS. > trackpad keyboard etc. are great especially once you get used to them. N.B., they only offer US qwerty. The keys have quite a bit of travel, which is fine for me. The thing that really still gives me some grief is the mini shift key. If you're a right-pinky shifter, you're going to need to stretch. If you miss, you've hit up-arrow and now you're typing on the wrong line. The speakers are perhaps the worst I've ever heard. Doesn't bother me because I never use them, but on that note, bluetooth is a little tricky out of the box since pureos doesn't ship a driver. Not sure if another distro just works. Also, as mentioned elsewhere, it's really simple to take apart, upgrade, fix, etc. No torx, glue, or esoteric fasteners. I dumped 64gb ram in it for like $200 and it took about 3 minutes.
• seanppaul 4y ago
  I've been a dev for almost 20 years. Though a bulky laptop with finest specs would be great, I need mobility so I had luck with these three. Super portable, yet powerful. 1. Dell XPS 13 2. Lenovo X1 Carbon 3. HP Dragonfly Elite (current) Regardless of the brand I always stuc with i7/16Gb and at least 512Gb NVMe storage. One downside with my current machine (HP Dragonfly) is it comes with 8th Gen intel processor not really a big problem for me, but fan it a bit louder to my liking. Coming to Linux compatibility I've used Dell XPS 13 and Lenovo X1 with no issues. Haven't tried Linux on the current machine yet.
• mosselman 4y ago
  A MacBook with M1 processor. Air, Pro, I don't know. Just max it out with RAM or storage or whatever until you reach 2000
• alkonaut 4y ago
  I have the same question but I'll tweak the parameters somewhat: I want a movable developer workstation. I'll never (or almost never) be using these components of the laptop: battery, screen, touchpad, keyboard. I also don't care much about size weight since I'll be 99% sitting still. On the contrary I'd like it to be large and heavy, if it would help with noise and thermals. Are there good "movable" laptops that run cool and quiet yet have high perf, and achieve this by actually making the laptop larger? I want something with good build quality (not a plasticky gaming rig). I want something using recent CPUs (intel 12th gen, or recent Ryzen). High power (35W and up) that can run for hours without throttling. I have tried various Dell models (precisions) but the thermals are abysmal because it's only half the thickness it needs to have in order to manage that kind of power.
  • jobigoud 4y ago
    Do you use a portable screen? I'm also looking for a "movable" workstation. I have considered a mini PC like Intel NUC coupled with an external GPU, but between the screen and the GPU case I fear it would start to be inconvenient for plane travel.
    • alkonaut 4y ago
      No I use normal screens 27” and up. I just move the machine between a home office and computer and have screen/keyboard/mouse etc in both locations.
• flashfaffe2 4y ago
  Have you checked frame.work? They offer fully customisable laptop where each pieces can be replace. Ps: I've just bought mine and tested it for few days so should take my view with a pinch of salt but so far the laptop is inline with my expectations. You can check some reviews on YouTube as well. https://youtu.be/jmgBwMHpP1w https://youtu.be/jmgBwMHpP1w
• ajennings 4y ago
  I bought a Librem 15 before the 14 existed. I was very happy with it (including battery life/suspend) for about a year and used it with Linux as my daily driver. Then hardware started to fail and now it freezes randomly. (I've replaced the memory. Must be the mainboard?) Maybe I was unlucky. Also, the 14 may be more reliable. After that, I almost bought a Librem 14, but I took a chance on the Framework. The only real problem is battery life/suspend, but it's annoying enough that I can't bring myself to use it as a daily driver.
  • shultays 4y ago
    Why the number goes backward?
    • ajennings 4y ago
      Screen size. They had a 13 and 15. Now they just sell their second-generation flagship, the 14.
• dirwiz 4y ago
  I imagine everyone's answer will begin with "It depends". I can only give you feedback on my workflow & setup. My dev hardware is an external SSD (USB3) running Debian. I virtualized my dev environment using qemu/kvm. I have several old laptops with no hard drives stationed at various offices. I just plug in, boot from the SSD and off to the races. If I need a laptop while traveling, I just pull from the old laptops pile and remove it's hard drive. Good to go. I do have minimum specs for the hardware: 1TB Samsung SSD (be sure the cable supports TRIM!) 16GB Memory (Virtualization) nVidia graphics (hard to find those non-hybrid types) decent screen size. In addition to normal backups of the host & VM, I do a weekly image of the VM. This helps greatly against damage/loss of the SSD. Hope this helps
• lazerl0rd 4y ago
  MSI Creator Z16[P] You should be able to disable the dGPU if you have no need for it, within the BIOS, to improve battery life. As for why I recommend it? 1) It has a thin, MacBook-esque aluminium chassis. 2) A choice of two biometrics - Fingerprint and Facial (the latter works with Howdy on Linux). 3) The processor is a 11th (Z16) or 12th Gen. (Z16P) Intel Core i9. The former uses 3200MHz DDR4 AND the latter uses DDR5. 4) They both sport a RTX 30 Series dGPU for creative work or gaming. 5) MSI has decent Linux support historically, for their laptops at least. 6) MSI laptops feature a "hidden BIOS" which exposes hundreds of options and toggles (from undervolting and over locking, to tuning PCIe slot power limits). This is quite helpful at times. 7) It has a panel that pretty much ticks all the boxes except HDR: a good resolution of QHD, high colour accuracy (∆E < 2), a high refresh rate (either 120Hz or 165Hz), as well as touch support. 8) It sports RGB keyboard backlighting, if that's your thing. 9) It has a great selection of ports, with one (Z16P) or two (Z16) Thunderbolt 4 ports and two USB [Type-A] 10GBps ports. 10) MSI laptops of this size usually sport two NVMe slots, for expansion. You could even use one slot for a Google Coral. Furthermore, the included NVMes from MSI that I've had have been "top-tier" in terms of throughput.
• elzbardico 4y ago
  Never had too much problems running linux on Dell or Lenovo laptops. The fact that no matter where I am in the world I can find parts or support was a strong point to me to go the traditional route. Now I make do with a Mac M1 and a companion samsung book pro, a machine that I choose because I wanted a very light (in physical weight) intel evo as a companion mobile machine running linux for when I feel that using linux is better than using Mac OS. I run fedora on it, and other than the fingerprint sensor that doesn't work (at least out of the box, never cared enough to figure out if I could find a workaround). I find it great that there are all those niche sellers out there, but I don't think going this route is cost-effective for most people.
  • tomrod 4y ago
    My recent experiences with Dells have been that they last up to two weeks after the warranty expires. I couldn't physically pick up an XPS 15 without it freezing due to case flex. It's a laptop -- this was killer.
• ParsnipsOfSnail 4y ago
  Bought an XPS 15 9500 last March, ticks these boxes for me. I think these laptops are underrated as Linux machines, frequently overshadowed by ThinkPads. - Good linux support, only had to manually install one driver. - Good durability. I'm very careless with my devices, all my laptops have broken at the hinges at least once. This one has held up after multiple hard drops. - Very quiet, fan noise barely noticeable even under load. - You can upgrade the memory - Easy to take apart and service as a user, which is great since I'm going to break something and have to service it eventually. Dell XPSs have always been the best for this IMO, at least of the mainstream laptops I've used. TLDR: Good combo of linux+repairable+quality+rugged
• dhdhhdd 4y ago
  Lenovo? T495/X1 carbon/etc.?
• a3w 4y ago
  In europe, you can use a site that offers a comparison across all vendors, with actual market prices. https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=nb&asuch=&bpmin=&bpmax=1533&v=k&hloc=at&hloc=de&hloc=pl&hloc=uk&hloc=eu&filter=&plz=&dist=&mail= https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=nb&asuch=&bpmin=&bpmax=1533&v=k... Next step would be to add technical specifications, perhaps limit the list to vendors with generally well linux support, or set the OS to no-os/FreeDOS/Linux-preinstalled. Is something like that available for north america, since the request was in dollars?
• egberts1 4y ago
  A good laptop is one without the UEFI. Un-socketable, solder-on BIOS chip.
• factorialboy 4y ago
  Does it have to be a laptop? I ditched my 2019 MBP for development. I used a desktop with Linux and couldn't be happier. For email, zoom, etc. I used the MBP. Linux dev experience is still far superior than Mac OS for me, and I tend to prefer big screens, mechanical keyboards and a work-desk env for long programming or video editing sessions.
  • princevegeta89 4y ago
    This used to be my setup until I realized I was running into a constant, frequent extra effort of keeping my PC and my laptop in sync for various things like my environments and files. Ditched it for a single power laptop instead.
• nullbytesmatter 4y ago
  I have a Librem 15v4 by Purism. It's no longer sold, but it's a nice laptop. It's the only Purism laptop with a 4K screen. For some reason, you can only find FHD screens these days. System76 has some decent laptop options for Linux, but all are FHD.If I had to purchase a new laptop today, I'd look at System 76's Lemur Pro or Purism's Librem 14.
• camdenreslink 4y ago
  I bought a Dell Latitude 7490 refurbished from the Dell Outlet a few years ago for < $1k and it suited my needs. I’m not sure what the newest Latitudes are like but the one I bought had the following qualities: 1. Installed Ubuntu on it, never had any driver issues 2. Keyboard was pretty nice 3. Screen wasn’t very good, although I did appreciate it having a matte finish. Not in the same ballpark as a MacBook screen.
• pSYoniK 4y ago
  Depending on where you are I would probably recommend looking at used Thinkpad P1/X1 Extreme. They tend to be within your budget if you're looking at a model from a year or two ago and they work very well on Ubuntu (Debian as well if you look at grabbing non-free drivers for whatever isn't working) and Ubuntu derivatives. While I know there are a few suggestions for gaming oriented laptops, but I'd suggest you are careful going down that route as some of the cheaper models feel very flimsy and if you end up working on this for longer periods of time, things such as sharp edges, sub-par (rattly) keyboard, bad screen or hell, even weak hinges, can be very frustrating. There is also the issue that Linux support might not be as good. I had an E460 and it worked fine for 6 years (I dropped it a few times and someone spilled coffee on it) but even 4-5-6 years down the line I could find replacement keyboard, replacement battery and even replacement case for it. When I gave it to be used by someone else, I had swapped these parts out, paid probably 60$ for them but I knew that the laptop will keep running fine for a few more years. I don't think I could find replacement case/keyboard for some gaming laptop 6 years down the line...? Or maybe I could and I just haven't had the chance to look. To sum up, get an older Thinkpad or maybe even an older Dell Precision.
• derbOac 4y ago
  I'm in a similar boat and the ones you're mentioning are all ones I've considered, along with some in the comments. Just to throw one more out I haven't seen mentioned is Razer. I haven't purchased one but have played around with them in person. The Razer Blade laptops in particular seem really nice to me, with nice build, screen and very nice touchpad, in a good form factor and nice specs. The MacBook Pro is maybe the closest thing I've seen to them. There's apparently a version of a Razer released by second company with linux on it (blessed by Razer), targeted at development, although the "regular" Razer laptops can be had for much less cost, more in your range. I used to think of Razer laptop as a "desktop gaming alternative" but some of the newer ones seem like they could be used for development. I've seen the Blades in AMD and Intel form.
  • drusepth 4y ago
    Would definitely second Razer. The build quality and touchpad are the best I've ever used and the only real downside is the price. But if it's in the budget, I'd definitely recommend.
• 2143 4y ago
  Since you were seeking laptops I imagine you're fine with the computing power laptops usually offer. I recently purchased a ThinkPad E14 gen 3. It has a 6 core 12 thread Ryzen 5 5600U, with 24 GB of memory (8 GB soldered + 16 GB I installed later). I run Linux exclusively. No Windows or dual boot or anything like that. I currently run the latest Fedora 36 Beta. On this particular OS I have none of the usual Linux problems. - Wifi works on both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. - Bluetooth works seamlessly. Picks up my wireless mouse and headphones right after boot/wakeup. Couldn't say the same about my older Linux laptops. - Sleep/suspend/wakeup etc works. - Camera works. Btw it has a shutter. - Screen resolution is full HD. - Battery life of about 6 to 7 hours on moderate usage. I think you might be able to customise your order with a bigger battery and faster charger. What doesn't work: - Fingerprint sensor Note that I did not have to do any workarounds on my machine with Fedora 36 Beta. YMMV. Some general thoughts on the ThinkPad E14: - Material quality of the E series is definitely not as great as the T, P, and X series of ThinkPad. But then again, it was much much cheaper, and I think the quality is okay for the price. - You can upgrade memory, storage, and a few other things by opening up the bottom panel. - Keyboard is great. Trackpad isn't as good as the ones on the Mac. I personally like the 3 physical buttons above the trackpad. - Choose your display wisely. There are TN displays as well as better quality displays. ------ My friend has the same laptop, except it's on Ryzen 3, memory is only 8 GB, and Ubuntu 20.04 LTS. On his machine, there are the following two problems: - Display always goes to full brightness on boot. - Memory shows only 6.2 GB (usually it shows 7.7 on other Ubuntu laptops with 8 gb; on my Fedora it shows the full 24 GB). However, these are OS specific problems and workarounds exist. Also, I'm hoping things would be sorted out in the newer versions of the Linux kernel.
  • xbar 4y ago
    Sidebar: do you have an opinion about which ThinkPad series currently has the best material quality, disregarding weight as a factor of such quality?
    • 2143 4y ago
      I haven't used it extensively, but the X1 carbon impressed me. Where I live the X1 carbon is crazy expensive though — even more expensive than well spruced Macbooks. The newer M1 Macbooks have impressed me. Though I love Linux, I don't do anything that can only be done on Linux. Hence I hesitate to spend more than a Macbook money on a ThinkPad.
• packetlost 4y ago
  I've been very happy with my Dell XPS 13 (a bit small, but my work laptop is also an XPS 15 which is a good size for daily use IMO). I recommend the developer editions for better network driver support (they use an intel one iirc).
• camgunz 4y ago
  I ended up buying an MBP 14" because of the apps, but I very very nearly bought a ThinkPad P14s G2 [0]. It's fast, cheap (wait for a deal) has good battery life (for a non MacBook Air), has a great, bright, matte 4k screen, and an Ethernet port. If I could afford to be Linux only like I have been in the past I would've definitely gone this route. [0]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-P14s-G2-AMD-laptop-review-With-a-matte-4K-LCD-and-Ryzen-5000.562498.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-P14s-G2-AMD-la...
• asciimov 4y ago
  Do you actually need a laptop as your main development machine? A few years back, I switched off of using a laptop for my main machine. This allows me to spend my money on hardware with more cores, more ram, better gpu, better linux support, bigger screens, and upgrade paths. $2000 will buy you a lot of desktop computer. Further, if you don't spend all of your $2k on fancy cases and overpriced gpus, you will have enough money leftover for a cheap but decent laptop. This laptop can then remote in to your workstation anytime you actually need the high end computing power.
  • kellogs_aran 4y ago
    Yeah I considered this too but it's not very child friendly. I live with family and I try to optimize for mobility. Maybe one day :)
• nextlevelwizard 4y ago
  MacBook Air M1 works wonderfully for me
• baq 4y ago
  Unfortunately Windows with WSL is the best Linux out there in terms of hardware support and driver quality, so if at all possible, I'd recommend checking that out.
• bdlowery 4y ago
  “Battery life is important to me” You’ll only find that with a MacBook. All other laptops have terrible battery life. But since you don’t want a MacBook… looks like your shit out of luck.
  • sergiosgc 4y ago
    Sorry, but no. That is entirely false. I get 10h out of a Lenovo X1C, and Lenovo is not special. Good battery life is not yet a given in every laptop, but easy enough to find with a bit of care when choosing the laptop.
    • bdlowery 4y ago
      M1 MacBooks have better performance than the top tier X1C, and 2x the battery life. Seems kind of weird paying for something that is just worse.
      • sergiosgc 4y ago
        M1 Macbooks support OSX only. That's a deal breaker.
• exdsq 4y ago
  I’d suggest relooking at Framework because I’ve seen so many positive reviews from people I respect, and it’s good to support that project. FWIW I’d buy one myself if I needed a new laptop. Might not be the solution for you, but I don’t think it’s worth discounting due to ‘Beta’ status!
• c2h5oh 4y ago
  AMD based Lenovo (5xxx or 6xxx CPUs - best performance per watt, very good open source drivers) from X, T or P series. X will be slimmer, lighter and likely with better screen (for media consumption), T and P will be bulkier but have a bigger battery. Ignore MSRP on Lenovo websites: discounts ranging from 30 to 50+ percent are active more often than not.
• hanselot 4y ago
• staticelf 4y ago
  I bought an HP zbook studio g8 and I am running ubuntu on it. It worked pretty good when I first installed it but some things weren't working correctly like the hdmi output and the sd card reader. Then I disabled secure boot and now everything I have tested works out of the box. I am running the latest edition of Ubuntu Desktop. I usually try to avoid HP but the new ZBook line works perfectly on linux with good support. Altough it uses Nvidia which is kind of cranky with the drivers and I also think the battery drain is a bit too heavy on linux. I am happy with it tho. I got a great keyboard, trackpad, screen and is plenty fast for me and my use case. I think I got it for around the price you wanted it and I even think they ship Ubuntu pre-installed in the US.
• sorry_outta_gas 4y ago
  I've had good luck with the asus g14, I don't run linux on it anymore since I'm stuck in UE but there's a good ROG discord with a big linux community focused on the machine.. running fedora worked mostly fine out of the box w/ gpu switching
• RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
  What specific kinds of development are you doing? Enterprise CRUD software? SaaS? Data science? ML? Just in review, I got a system 76 with pop os as the daily driver. I do a lot of ML and also game on it in my free time, so having a desktop 2080ti in a laptop chassis was nice. However, a major complaint I have is battery life. It's not just the ridiculous GPU, it's also that linux is apparently shit when it comes to power management. If you want to mobile compute and apparently you do, you might consider a thorough investigation into battery life as a part of your requirements. Mine is great as a mobile workstation machine, but the battery life prevents me from enjoying cafe style programming.
  • kellogs_aran 4y ago
    Hi. A combo of Enterprise CRUD software and SaaS. I use Docker/asdf to run 3 different projects so the memory and hard disk space I use add up to quite a bit.
• cowlby 4y ago
  I picked up a Dell Inspiron 7000 17" and liked these details: - Large 17" screen with slim design similar in size to many 15". - 2560 x 1600 resolution. 4K is too small, 1920p not enough pixels. - Dedicated Nvidia graphics. - Effective keyboard for coding. - Lower cost than XPS yet seemed more full featured. Battery life is somewhat lower due to the size and higher performance components. But seemed like a good trade-off in the end for the better coding experience.
• xwdv 4y ago
  Thinkpad T480s. Your search is over.
  • StillBored 4y ago
    Lenovo, in their wisdom (penny pinching I guess), has been soldering either 4 or 8G of ram into the thinkpads for the last few years. This is one of the things that drove me away from them, because it seriously limits the amount of ram that can be installed (vs what is possible) and it messes up any kind of dimm striping one might want to run, as well as restricting you to the generally not great timings of the soldered on ram. Its irritating and destroys what might otherwise be a pretty desirable machine, compared with any number of less expensive machines that have two DIMM slots.
    • xwdv 4y ago
      You can still install more RAM into a T480s as there is an open slot.
      • StillBored 4y ago
        Yah, I thought that was clear. But if you get one of the machines with 4G soldered, your basically limited to 1/2 the full capacity of the hardware (36G vs 64G IIRC). edit: Its actually 20-24G max according to the spec sheet, compared with my similar age cheepe dell which does 32G because it has two dimm slots so I have a pair of 16G dimms in it.
        • xwdv 4y ago
          Put a 32G dimm on an 8G and you get 40G
          • StillBored 4y ago
            I'm not sure that actually works on that machine, the intel specs list 32G max on the chips, which likely if its like some of their other designs caps the individual DIMM channel capacity. I've gone over the lenovo recommended RAM configs before when the intel spec supports it, but intel has been enforcing capacity limits on many of their parts (presumably in the low level binary firmware blobs which refuse to train DIMMs which otherwise might work) for the last few years. Even so, if you get it working, its the equivalent of 1/2ing your ram bandwidth. PS: what you probably want is a T480, same generation little thicker, with both ram slots, and the extended battery if one wants a beefier version.
• dhash 4y ago
  If you call Dell, they can make you a top of the line XPS or Precision that comes with linux from the factory. I stick to the thin-n-light XPS 13/15/17 or the Precision 5570 or 5770. Rock solid build quality. Note: if you call Dell they’ll give you a couple hundred bucks off the price on the website, and can do custom builds
• hedora 4y ago
  If you care most about battery life, aesthetics and keyboard, then the pinebook pro is a great choice. You can spend the $1800 you save on cloud VMs or a kick-ass desktop. Cons: The touchpad is acceptible, but middling. (I am a stickler for touchpads.) The battery drains in suspend mode out of the box. Supposedly, there are fixes, but people have mixed reports of their stability. You'll want a separate device for music streaming and zoom. Anyway, I have one, and it is perfect for my use cases.
• satysin 4y ago
  I used a Dell Precision running Linux and it was a very good experience with a lot of power. It is essentially an XPS 15 but you can opt-out of the dGPU and just have Intel Xe graphics which makes life easier with Linux if you don't need a high-end GPU. 15", good keyboard and trackpad, amazing screen (get the 4k option and scale at 200% so you have a 1080p look and feel but super crisp), decent sound, powerful CPU, lots of RAM, M.2 PCIe SSD, etc. Although if you really want to get better battery opt for the 1080p screen which is still great. Battery life with Linux on any laptop is kinda rough no matter what in my experience, it's okay but not MacBook Pro with M1 levels. Also the fans get kinda loud which you may or may not mind but is kinda par for the course with most Intel laptops as they're all a few mm too thin imho. As for why Dell? Well personally I have always had superb experience with Dell support. Engineer on site a day or two later to fix any issues and when I needed a replacement they sorted it within a few days and let me send the old machine back a week later so I could backup and restore without a huge hassle. I know others have had bad experience with Dell support but for me (in Europe) it has always been fine.
• brink 4y ago
  I've been using a Dell XPS 13" 9310 for a year now with Endeavour OS/Gnome. It's perfect, IMO.
• Mikeb85 4y ago
  Forget anyone who says just use a Mac or Windows. They probably haven't used Linux in awhile because most of their "issues" don't exist anymore. My experience: Ubuntu and Fedora "just work" on almost any machine. If your hardware is super new use the newest version or beta for the first release cycle. I used to have a ThinkPad, now have an Acer Swift 3, both "just worked". Dells seem to be good. System76 of course. Razer sells a dev machine these days. And so on. Tip on maintaining battery life: charge from 20% to 90% and don't leave it plugged in, use appropriate brightness, realize that GPU heavy stuff, multiple monitors, etc... all use more battery. Stay away from discrete GPUs unless you know you need/want them, integrated is fine for most gaming these days.
• 1337shadow 4y ago
  Only drawback of P14s is battery which you can't upgrade, otherwise great to have an AMD Ryzen with 16 cores and 48 gigs or RAM.
• Hippocrates 4y ago
  M1 MacBook Air and use a linux VM, docker container or remote in to a linux machine. You can't beat the hardware for the price even with the extra hassle of having to work inside a Guest OS for whatever reason. Don't torture yourself with some Libre Laptop hardware just for an OS.
• geocar 4y ago
  Maybe you want to consider a beefy desktop with a battery-backup and plugging it in someplace cold and setting up a laptop to remote into it. You can get a lot of bang for your buck in a desktop, and going lean on the laptop means you don't need to compromise on cpu memory or storage. They even make special video cards that do the remote desktop encoding (PcOIP) that are really quite fine for coding, but I find xpra to be just fine for me.
  • sto_hristo 4y ago
    I'm actually on the fence for something like this. Waiting to hear about cooling capabilities of the upcoming Dell XPS 15 though. In this case, instead of laptop i'm thinking of tablet with a big screen instead.
• havocsupreme 4y ago
  I know you said you dont want mac, but I recommend apple only for the hardware. If you want linux, you can use Asahi Linux. Its in the beta stages but it allows your to harness mac’s superior hardware to develop on Linux. Apple is proven to make long lasting products that meet all the requirements you’ve list. Recommend M1 in particular, better than most intel and ARM laptops of its generation. https://github.com/AsahiLinux/m1n1 https://github.com/AsahiLinux/m1n1
  • AlexCoventry 4y ago
    n-gate, can you please start writing again?
• ZuLuuuuuu 4y ago
  IMO, Lenovo ThinkBook 13s Gen2 (Intel) and Gen3 (AMD) are hidden gems which are not much talked about. - 16:10 matte screen with no PWM - Very good port selection (1xUSB-C, HDMI, 2xUSB-A) - Good battery life (for a Windows laptop) - IMO, the best keyboard layout - Fingerprint reader - It is actually around 1100$ - A difference between Intel and AMD versions is that AMD version does not support full length M.2 SSDs, it only supports the short ones. - But it is probably not for computing usage since it is thin and light A new gen with Alder Lake is announced a few weeks ago. It is almost the same but the biggest difference is that there are 2xUSB-C + 1xUSB-A instead of 1xUSB-C + 2xUSB-A. And the touchpad will be glass I think. Surprisingly the battery life seems a bit shorter on the upcoming gen. I currently cannot decide whether to buy Gen2 or wait for Gen4.
  • schroeding 4y ago
    Yeah, the ThinkBooks (both the 13" and the 16" models) are great! Linux Support is also good. The 16" models are also great if you need a laptop with a dedicated (consumer) GPU without any kind of "gamer aesthetic". :D They don't support classic sleep (S3 standby) anymore, though. But I'm not sure if any modern laptop still does. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • lhl 4y ago
    The Gen4 is supposed to be out this month, although many people are having their Lenovo laptop orders delayed (by months, even). You can check out r/thinkpad for the scuttlebutt. I like the new 16:10 2560x1600 display, but I don't know if there's going to be a keyboard lottery like with late-gen Thinkpads (distinct quality differences between Liteon and Chicony parts) - my biggest disappointment with the new version is that the AMD versions are Ryzen 5000 not 6000. At <45W the Ryzen 6000s have a distinct performance and battery-life performance vs the equivalent Intel 12th gen parts (like 50-100% better battery life when testing similar laptops for light loads like basic web browsing). I'm vaguely on the market, but willing to wait for a few months to see some real-world comparisons since I'm a full-time Linux user, and stuff like suspend behavior rarely gets proper coverage until a fellow dev starts using them - I've already taken a couple for the team the past couple years, so figure I'll sit back this round.
• smoyer 4y ago
  I've had great success with Lenovo X1 Carbon laptops running Linux (Debian with XFCE). I've also had good luck with the older Dell XPS laptops. Getting either of these for $2k would require a sale and if you want to run a lot of Docker containers you'll need to pick a beefier model. My only annoyance, which seems to cross brands, is that none of the newer laptops support the deeper sleep modes.
• mkasberg 4y ago
  You should look into a Dell Latitude. Specifically, look for one with Intel Graphics (for better Linux compatibility and battery life). I'd personally go for a 74xx model. They work great with Linux, in my experience. They're also business-grade, so they have decent longevity and repair-ability, with easy to find parts. https://www.mikekasberg.com/blog/2021/08/12/dell-latitudes-are-great-laptops.html https://www.mikekasberg.com/blog/2021/08/12/dell-latitudes-a...
• sandreas 4y ago
  I would go for framework. Maybe if the Lenovo X13s (ARM) is out and reviews are good, that might be an alternative. When 13 is a bit small, you could go for Lenovo T14s... But honestly, if you just wanna use this machine for development, a used Lenovo T480s with 24GB RAM and HiDPI display would be more than enough and costs about 500 bucks.
• buzzert 4y ago
  Highly recommend the Librem 14 personally. Pureboot, great set of mainline Linux drivers in PureOS, plus a very easily hackable firmware (I hacked mine to change the keyboard layout/behavior). The build quality is also surprisingly good, and you’re supporting a special purpose company that fights for the user!
• aidenn0 4y ago
  Some thoughts: 1. I have heard only good things about Framework. If I were getting a laptop today, that would be on my short-list 2. I have had an HP zBook 15 G3 for many years now, so no issue with durability there. However, I just tried to price one and the price has gone way up, so it's out of the $2k range for anything reasonably configured for developer use. 3. Battery life; if it's going to be mostly plugged in, select the option in the BIOS for that; it will stop charging the battery sooner to increase longevity of the battery. If it's going to be use unplugged a lot, try to keep it above 20%. Ignore any advice about fully draining the battery to prevent "memory effect" that was dubious advice even for NiCd batteries that could potentially suffer from memory effect and was never true for LiIon chemistries.
• seltzered_ 4y ago
  see this thread from a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31074881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31074881 , it was also about desiring linux support.
• philtar 4y ago
• 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  I highly recommend you just start buying laptops (plural), install different Linux distros on them, see how they work, return them if they have issues. There's just too many weird combinations of chipsets and hardware configurations and power profiles etc etc. You will spend all of your time looking for "good hardware for a good price" and end up with crap Linux support.
• mise_en_place 4y ago
  I'd say get an M1 mbp and use the shell script to install Asahi Linux on it.
• princevegeta89 4y ago
  Linux is great. I'm with you. As someone who's been on Linux for 8 years I can say that if going with Linux be prepared to experience driver compahility issues and random broken things although the occurrence chance is small. Be prepared to spend time to deal with them. Also be prepared to have suboptimal drivers that don't fully Make use of your CPU and GPU and their power management functions. In some cases you can also be prepared to not be able to find good software for the use case you'd be looking for. Or just go on with Windows + WSL.
  • er4hn 4y ago
    I primarily use Pop_OS (Ubuntnu derivative) on a Thinkpad X1 as my development laptop. I'm able to run a few containers and VMs, vscode, some utils, spotify (via it's electron app), bluetooth keyboard, bluetooth headphones, with no issues. Pretty much all of the hardware stuff like bluetooth and wifi was supported out of the box. I normally work next to a power outlet, but if I don't have one my typical dev setup (vscode, spotify, some bluetooth, some containers running) gives me somewhere between 3 - 6 hours, which is pretty good imo. When I was feeling cheeky I setup Steam and got some basic games running through the Proton compatibility layer. That seems to have broken my ability to do updates due to some issues with Nvidia drivers and I'll look at that at some point. Overall though, an X1 with Linux can get you really far these days. I do have Windows around to dual boot if I need to but it is much slower and burns through battery like a jet plane through fuel.
• dsego 4y ago
  Thinkpad T series maybe, I have a t480s, it's a workhorse.
• pfooti 4y ago
  dell xps laptops are (a) pretty nice and (b) do ship in some models with ubuntu as the main OS. personally, i use an xps15/windows/WSL, mainly because i also use the laptop for video games and so on.
• vmoore 4y ago
  I'm gonna re-post this by @Tommy_Tran on Reddit. This is not me, but the comment was too good not to share it again on HN. This is from the self-post here, titled `Is Linux more private and secure than Mac OS?` https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/u6ws24/is_linux_more_private_and_secure_than_mac_os/ https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/u6ws24/is_linux_mo... Worth considering security when about to buy a daily-driver laptop! ----------------- Linux is not more secure than macOS. Infact, it is not even remotely nearly as secure as macOS. Linux for the most part lacks access control for apps. Flatpak and portal reduce some of this problem, but flatpak lacks granular control and no one is enforcing the usage of portals. As an example, controlling audio recording permission with Flatpak is a mess, as most things will just use the PulseAudio socket directly and you cannot deny them audio recording permission. You can revoke the PulseAudio socket, but that will deny both audio in and out. And this is only limited to apps which you install via Flatpak - any apps that you install via your package managers are not restricted whatsoever unless you spend hours and hours making an SELinux policy or AppArmor/Bubblewrap profile for each of them. The X11 server on Linux is also a huge problem. Any X11 window can snoop on any other X11 window and keylog + screen record you. Nested X11 is not great for performance at all and its hard to enforce it system wide. Wayland solves this problem, but not all apps work with it yet, and XWayland windows can still snoop on each other. None of the issues I described above exist on macOS. Unless you give an app elevated privileges, they all have to play by the rules with the permission system. Linux also lacks the concept of verified boot or system integrity verification. In fact, most distros don't even do UEFI Secure Boot right - the verification ends at the kernel and the initrd is left unverified, unencrypted and vulnerable to evil maid attacks. There is no protection against persistent malware whatsoever too, even if you manage to protect the initrd, because there is no verification that extends to /usr, /bin, /sbin, and various other directories. macOS on the other hand has proper verified boot from the firmware to the system volume, protecting it from both evil maid attacks and persistent malware. Beyond verified boot, it also has system integrity protection, limiting what the root user can do. There are also various miscellaneous things that macOS has such as system-wide umask setting (as opposed to just the shell), app signature verification, and so on. Telemetry on macOS, for the mot part, is optional. Unless someone can prove otherwise (by capturing it on the network or something), any claim about invasive telemetry will not hold. Also, remember that being open source doesn't imply being trustworthy. You are still placing complete trust in whoever distributing the compiled version of your software (which will be your OS vendor most of the time if you use a traditional Linux desktop distribution) to not add nasty code in there and screw you over. Some of Apple's apps do have mandatory telemetry or lack E2EE sync, but that is about it - you can simply not use them. One annoying aspect about macOS is that they really want you to make an apple account to do a major macOS version upgrade via the App Store (though you can still obtain the installer via their CDN if you know where to look) and that they collect hardware IDs. In short, macOS has superior security when compared to Linux, and privacy wise it is still a great option as it has great protection against the third party software that you install. It is not great for threat models where you require anonymity, but most people don't have such threat models to begin with. Some people will say Linux is targeted less and is therefore safer, but that is simply not true. Irrelevance != security. ReactOS is even less targeted than Linux, macOS or Windows because no one uses it, does that make it a secure operating system? And remember, malware for Linux does exist, and it's not hard to make one either. The security model is so bad that it's basically "if you execute bad code, you are screwed". There is not even a need for an OS exploit to compromise your system if the app you are running is malicious. The OS itself doesn't protect you from anything. And before anyone jumping in accusing me of being an Apple shill - I am a Linux system administrator, and most of the systems I use daily (both on my servers and personal laptop) are Red Hat systems, not Apple ones. As much as I want to say that Linux desktop is better than macOS - that is simply not the reality, I'd be lying to you if I say so.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• SkyMarshal 4y ago
  Play around with laptop builds on https://xoticpc.com/ https://xoticpc.com/ and see if any configuration there works for you. Just check the hardware compatibility lists to make sure certain things like the WiFi chips have Linux support. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31014306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31014306 https://www.linuxcompatible.org/ https://www.linuxcompatible.org/
• drusepth 4y ago
  Razer's a bit overpriced (a la Mac) but I really like the build quality and the specs are typically great. My current Razer Blade Stealth was about $2000 and has worked flawlessly for about a year now (and my previous RBS worked flawlessly for about 3 years before I cracked the screen by stepping on it in the night). Everything works OOTB on Linux. Battery life is around 9 hours or 5-6 with my full stack running and everything always feels snappy (I use 16 workspaces, so I typically have a TON open). Keyboard feels amazing, the chassis is probably the sturdiest one I've ever had (might be metal but doesn't get hot), and I prefer the touchpad over the mac one, which everyone seems to hold as a gold standard for some reason.
• nithayakumar 4y ago
  Have you considered cloud machines for software dev? Full disclosure: I'm a co-founder in a business that provides cloud environments for software dev. One of my cofounders used to code daily from his ipad. I switch between my gaming pc and my mac. The flexibility and peace of mind is unbeatable for me. Plus its great for intensive computing usage since you can scale up and down. That said, if Linux is your general purpose OS of choice (in addition to programming), than I completely get it :)
• llIIllIIllIIl 4y ago
  I've got ThinkPad X1 Carbon (gen 6) since it showed up at Costco (2018 maybe? idk) years ago and didn't have any real issues with it. The only thing that is not working is a fingerprint scanning, but I don't care. The battery never let me down. I develop on the laptop with vscode and docker. This is intensive computing for me, but I don't do npm installs. Can you unpack what's intensive computing for you?
• jackson1442 4y ago
  If you're already planning to use Linux daily, the Framework is a solid choice. I personally sent mine back (because of that "beta" feel), but it was more the software than the hardware- I am a Mac user and expected Linux desktop to just be a bit better than it is today. The Framework hardware is easily my favorite laptop hardware (aside from Apple, but really they're a different category than Framework).
• Saphyel 4y ago
  I highly recommend Slimbook everyone I know they tried they loved. It's built for linux (as others that you mentioned) and they contribute to KDE and others open source projects so as you can expect if you have any issue they will reply to your queries. On the other hand purism probably is the worst you mentioned.
• threeaccents 4y ago
  System76 makes some awesome laptops. Linux as a first class citizen.
• AsusToss 4y ago
  I’m running Archlinux on my Dell XPS 9750 and it’s pretty great. The downside is that the onboard GPU doesn’t have Linux drivers, but the CPU graphics work fine for what I’m doing (mostly web development).
• Melatonic 4y ago
  So to answer your question seriously I would say look at some of the newer laptops that have OLED screens and (if you need it) smaller dedicated GPU. These are going to be super future proof and you can sometimes get last years model very cheap. I do not have a ton of experience with them but personally might get something like the HP Spectre or maybe a Gigabyte or MSI laptop. What really holds me back though is the damn keyboards on modern laptops - they all suck. The old keyboard on my Thinkpad T420 I love in comparison. There are people that are actually replacing the whole innards (you can even buy them premade and shipped from China) of I believe the Thinkpad X301 or similar with modern CPU, modern screen, etc etc. And on the plus side anyone who sees your laptop at a cafe is going to think its an old POS and not even think about stealing it!
• xmagee 4y ago
  I currently daily-drive a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Yoga Gen5. 4k touchscreen, 15in, awesome Linux support. I've tried Fedora and Ubuntu on it, but I use Arch Linux daily on it (EndeavorOS at the moment), and its great for web development. I think it was ~ $1600 USD when new
• dogman144 4y ago
  Dell XPS 13 with Ubuntu is a lower cost alternative to Purism 14 and you get some possibly totally false mental guarantees about quality and linux integration via the Dell base. The touchpad, at least on my model from a few years back, was horribly sensitive to palm touches. There were some config changes I made that may or may not have done anything, and I don't notice it anymore but definitely type a bit differently. The other aspect is a 13'' screen is a bit small for dev work. A purism is next on my list fwiw.
• bobobob420 4y ago
  dell lattitude. getting a framework laptop when you need something proper and reliable is how you screw yourself.
• slaymaker1907 4y ago
  I absolutely adore my System76 Darter Pro. System76 is actually great for many different price points since they are extremely customizable. For example, you could do something like opt for a cheaper processor but more storage whereas many manufacturers force you to have more expensive everything (Apple is the worst offender, but all seem to do this to an extent).
• theyeenzbeanz 4y ago
  Don’t have a suggestion but I’d personally avoid ASUS. I’ve had 2 models within the recent few years and they have garbage battery life and run so hot with screaming fans on light loads.
• nobody10 4y ago
  I have Kubuntu Focus XE. Pros - support replies quickly - I really haven't install any new software other than Discord and Spotify. Everything comes out of the box. - Has all the IOs that I ever need. - Very light, build quality is above average. Cons - Mouse pad is kind of sensitive - I would trigger it by accident while typing.
• dark-star 4y ago
  If you really have $2k to spend on a laptop, then a Mac is probably a safe bet. All developers I know that use one are very happy with it, although I don't have one personally so I can't offer first-hand experience. OTOH, I am more than happy with my Dell laptop. A slightly older Latitude. Everything works out of the box (I run Manjaro on it), even the WWAN, keyboard lights, card reader, etc. And you can get replacement parts (battery, screen, keyboard) for years since those laptops are so common.
• BuckRogers 4y ago
  I don't know about Linux support, as I would use WSL, but I love Samsung laptops that have the S-Pen. It's Wacom EMR tech, which is the best you can get for a stylus and the only place to get it on the PC side that I know of. Other than a standalone Wacom digitizer of course. I also have a Thinkpad X1 Xtreme and it's solid, but nothing to write home about. If going for that, I'd compare (in person) with the latest Dell stuff. Otherwise, I'd go Samsung for me.
• theodric 4y ago
  Frame.work
• unit0x03 4y ago
  I think you're missing an obvious option: Lenovo supports Linux on all Thinkpads, and the AMD models like the T14 are a great bang for your buck, much less than $2000 even with 3y next business day warranty service. I've been doing dev on recent Thinkpads for the past couple years, and honestly they're the least hassle of any laptop I've used in the past decade. I've run Arch, Ubuntu, whatever. work great, reasonably priced, excellent support.
• flupke 4y ago
  I've been using the Tuxedo Pulse 15 for quite some time and I'm happy with it. https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Notebooks/15-16-inch/TUXEDO-Book-Pulse-15-Gen1.tuxedo https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note...
• swaranga 4y ago
  Have you considered an HP Elitebook? I am using an Elitebook 850 G7 given by my company. I have been daily driving it for a year now with Ubuntu 20.04 (previously an 840 G3 I think) and have no complaints. I use it with triple monitor setup, all 32 inch 2K (I find 2K better for programming) and use it with the Hp 120W dock. I even upgraded its memory to 64GB myself from Amazon for much improved quality of life (I give Intellij 24G alone; have at it!)
• tginart 4y ago
  This guy gets it. Also, recent ThinkPads do not come with good Linux support unless they are explicitly sold with Linux OS. Lenovo has different firmware for Windows vs Linux now. I recently got a Lenovo P15v Gen 2i that does not work with Linux (I ended up returning after a failed installation). Lenovo has a >4 month backlog on Linux laptops at the moment. So we will have to make do with something else.
• Koiwai 4y ago
  I know it's off topic but you should get external monitors, bigger monitors greatly increase productivity. They're cheap, Like 27 inch 4K *2, cost like $400, don't have to be fancy gaming monitors, I run 3.
• surge 4y ago
  Look at System76 https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops Personally, I buy refurbed or upgraded Thinkpads from Ebay from years ago and slap Linux on them.
• z3ncyberpunk 4y ago
  Thinkpad X1 or Extreme runs Pop!_OS flawlessly
• rmoskal 4y ago
  I usually buy a refurbished or new dell XPS-13 that is one or two generations behind the current Intel offering. Runs fedora and ubuntu perfectly and should cost about 1K. I usually get them on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/325032670333?epid=28035701461&hash=item4bad74f47d%3Ag%3ARmwAAOSwD4hhEqBw&LH_ItemCondition=2000 https://www.ebay.com/itm/325032670333?epid=28035701461&hash=... There's one with 16GB and a 4K screen. Get yourself a portable external monitor and you should be very productive. '
• JSavageOne 4y ago
  I'm a big fan of the LG Gram 17. It's the lightest laptop with a 17 inch screen ever made, even lighter than a Macbook Air. It's not the most performant machine so I wouldn't buy it if you need the best performance, but it's certainly good enough for software development. Just get a anti-glare screen protector with it since the screen is very reflective.
• gadiyar 4y ago
  "I looked into the Framework laptops and so far it looks like they are still a bit beta." I have been using one since December and it has been fairly reliable. Linux support is quite good as is the community they've built. It's also cool that the Embedded Controller firmware is public and they have some community members' threads showing how to customize it as well. They had some teething issues with power drain from the expansion ports while suspended - an upcoming BIOS update is supposed to fix those. The battery lasts around 6 hours, so if you can live with that I would highly recommend this for your needs. On maintaining battery life, they have a feature to limit the battery charge level to a customizable limit (usually people like to set this at 80%). Other than this, the fact that this is easily user-replaceable should help.