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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

• theasteve 6y ago
  BS
• deusofnull 6y ago
  protip. small piece of scotch tape and a small piece of paper. when you need camera, just fold the paper open. when it gets worn out, new paper and scotch tape.
• Scarbutt 6y ago
  There's still the audio problem.
• gumby 6y ago
  Apple should have an indicator light for the microphone as well, and to avoid confusion,far from the camera. I don’t think it’s possible to block the mic.
  • markstos 6y ago
    It's possible to have hardware kill switches that can't be compromised via software. Apple opts not to include them. Purism laptops include them. https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/
    • samrolken 6y ago
      Apple includes this on the latest iPads and Macs with the T2 chip. https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/03/apple-hardware-microphone-disconnect-ipads/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/03/apple-hardware-microphone-...
      • gumby 6y ago
        Only when the cover is shut. That prevents an important set of attacks. But a mechanical switch in the power connection to the two devices keeps you from accidentally broadcasting when on, say, a Zoom call.
    • gumby 6y ago
      Much to my surprise, amazon Alexa devices with mute buttons use a hard button, not a soft input.
• soulofmischief 6y ago
  If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances. Doesn't this sound like an engineering oversight and not a user error? Why are camera covers not just part of the design? My phone camera physically retracts when not in use.
  • jereees 6y ago
    Your phone camera sounds like an engineering oversight.
    • rosywoozlechan 6y ago
      As a former one plus 7 pro owner, I agree with this sentiment.
    • soulofmischief 6y ago
      What makes you feel that way? I enjoy the peace of mind and lack of a notch on my screen. It's designed and advertised as a feature, not an oversight.
      • Twirrim 6y ago
        There's a lot more moving parts to go wrong.
        • soulofmischief 6y ago
          It's a bit unfair to say that a single moving part is "a lot more moving parts". I can almost guarantee you that my phone will outlive its usefulness before the camera stops working based on current market trends. Regardless, it's a feature I wanted and the engineering team catered to this desire, so I don't see how this is an oversight. Engineering is about trade-offs.
        • swebs 6y ago
          I'd rather take that risk than have some dumbass notch blocking the screen.
• dyingkneepad 6y ago
  More than once I was gifted camera-cover plastic things that I could stick to my laptop cameras. They all had convenient ways to open/close them, and they all had the logo of the company that was gifting them to me (one was a proprietary AI software library). I am 100% confident that those plastic things would indeed damage my display, since they were slightly thick and the laptop lid wouldn't properly close with them. So I kept the insulating tape that is currently there, and nothing was damaged. It does make some sense that this article exists.
• jeffrallen 6y ago
  Seriously Apple, just stop blaming your users. Camera covers are a totally reasonable response to the threats we all face. If your precious computers can't have them installed, build one in. I am a longtime Apple hardware user, but it's just getting so hard to keep using them...
  • callmeal 6y ago
    >Seriously Apple, just stop blaming your users. C'mon you know you should not be holding cellphones in that way...
  • valuearb 6y ago
    Where the blame? Apple shouldn’t warn users?
• kalium-xyz 6y ago
  Beyond a certain point Apple computers became a status symbol and now they seem to be able to get the users to cater to them instead of the other way around.
  • teekert 6y ago
    It's just a warning. You can ignore it, you may damage your display. Nothing more, nothing less.
    • ziddoap 6y ago
      Which is sort of the definition of having your customers cater to you instead of you catering to your customers.
      • teekert 6y ago
        So you're catering to Siemens when you refrain from putting your dog in the microwave?
        • Thetawaves 6y ago
          What are you trying to say? All I get from this is boot-licking absurdity.
        • ziddoap 6y ago
          What a ridiculously hyperbolic reply. But no, this analogy does not follow, because your microwave will still work after you put your dog in there -- and I have not seen guidance from Siemens telling me that microwaving my dog voids my microwaves warranty.
          • teekert 6y ago
            Replace dog by CDs, you will break your microwave. The macbook just wasn't designed to puy something over the cam. I don't get all the excitement.
• ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  When I moved to Germany I was surprised how everyone taped the camera on their laptops with these small, thin, easy to remove stickers that left no residue made for bookmarking your notebooks. This should still work on Macs as a sticker is thin enough not to damage the display.
  • roland35 6y ago
    As long as it's thinner than a standard page of printer paper, according to apple at least!
  • dguo 6y ago
    That's what I use as well, and I'm still using the same one that I started with. It's lasted over a year. I appreciate this line: > The camera is engineered so that it can’t activate without the camera indicator light also turning on. This is how you can tell if your camera is on. But I still want a physical assurance that the camera can't see anything. I don't want to have to count on myself noticing the light. Some Lenovo ThinkPads have built-in shutters, and I wish Apple would do the same for MacBooks. In my ideal laptop, it would also physically disable the microphone.
• whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  Half of my office has camera covers, honestly at this point I'd have a lot of respect for any maker who had a physical mechanism to their camera... Sort of like the original iSight https://www.coolsmartphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/isigiht1-1280x720.jpg https://www.coolsmartphone.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/is...
  • anuragsoni 6y ago
    Lenovo gets pretty close. Most thinkpads starting from 2018 have a thin plastic cover to block the camera [1] [1] https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkShutter https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkShutter
  • kilo_bravo_3 6y ago
    I've never understood physical covers, then again I am never in a compromising position in front of my laptop. Any malware that can take pictures can record keystrokes. I want no cover so I can see the activity light because knowing the webcam is on is more important than it being on. The (pennsylvania?) school district webcam spying scandal got kicked off because a boy noticed his webcam light coming on. If it had been covered would he have noticed? No, the school district wouldn't have had pictures of him, but they still would have screengrabs, audio, and keystrokes and he likely never would have noticed. Take all of the pictures of my double chin that you want. I want to know that my webcam is coming on without my authorization so I can root out the spyware that is keylogging. Passwords > Pics If you're the type whose life will be ruined by pictures taken by your webcam, by all means cover it up. I'm too old and hairy to be blackmailed with nudie pics. Having my passwords leak would seriously cramp my style, though. And no, nobody is going to waste a zero-day that can reprogram a webcam controller to disable the light (if possible and often it is not) on a nudie-pics malware. They are going to use it to make actual money.
    • slipheen 6y ago
      For me it's not about blackmail, it's about making sure the camera isn't accidentality enabled unexpectedly during a meeting. The worst that would happen is I'd look kinda unprofessional slurping up some noodles, but having the camera covered allows me to be confident I'm not presenting unless I intend to.
• oskenso 6y ago
  Just cover the camera with a piece of sticky note paper, problem solved
• 0xDEEPFAC 6y ago
  Well, being in the security field I would want to know if that light is software or hardware controlled.
  • awake 6y ago
    The light is hardware controlled. The camera can only get power when the light is on.
    • slenk 6y ago
      Now. It definitely wasn't always
      • valuearb 6y ago
        Right, only the last ten years models.
  • 1123581321 6y ago
    It’s hardware controlled. https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/14705/hard-wired-link-between-webcam-and-led-indicator https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/14705/hard-wired-l... Bypass attacks have been demonstrated on old hardware. Nothing most people would own today.
• roland35 6y ago
  This is an interesting side effect of designing a thin, fancy glass display! I see a lot of people who cover their camera and I appreciate their concerns but I do trust the green light. Although... You may not see the light on if you leave your laptop open when you're away from your desk. I do wish it was easier to get a laptop with no camera or microphone at all!
  • kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    Can you be confident that the light stays on long enough when taking a quick snapshot?
• duxup 6y ago
  This seems like a pretty mild warning for folks who might stick a bulky cover on their camera and press down / pack their laptop tightly and now have wedged part of the screen open with the cover. I'm a fan of using painters tape.... pretty low profile, easily removed, stays on really well. Also the weird blue glow you get when the camera is on tells you pretty quick "Hey there's a cover on there" where sometimes with the all blackout covers ... I can't tell. I renew my calls for all devices to have an led indicator (good on Apple here) and a physical switch that cuts power to mics and cameras for all devices with them. With the endless layers of software we have today, I have trouble trusting anything but cutting power.
  • dathinab 6y ago
    But it's also a sign about Apple not doing a good wrt. making their premium products robust. With many other Laptops in that price range you would either have to use a very fat cover or apply a amount of pressure which might damage your laptop anyway. I just tried it (carefully) with my laptop and the screen has enough "play"/"flex" to handle it just fine. PS: Fun fact as far as I remember a number of webcams with LED indicator allow (or did allow in the past) anyone using the camera to switch off the indicator without stopping using the camera...
    • duxup 6y ago
      I'm not sure if this is more or less of an issue with Apple covers than say ... anyone else. It could be, but I wouldn't base it off just Apple having a warning about it.
    • filoleg 6y ago
      >Fun fact as far as I remember a number of webcams with LED indicator allow (or did allow in the past) anyone using the camera to switch off the indicator without stopping using the camera... While this is still true for many laptops, it hasn't been true for MBP for at least the past 5 years (cannot be bothered to find the exact year), even if someone has full root access to the machine. I say that, because the camera LED on MBPs these days is hardware activated, not software. So if the camera is active on hardware level, the LED indicator will go green, no matter what.
• _bxg1 6y ago
  People are suggesting just using tape, but the issue is when you want to un-cover it frequently (which is probably more common now than a few months ago). For a couple dollars you can get a thin, nice-looking little plastic cover that you can actually slide out of the way when you need to use it. Most of these are thin enough not to be a problem, but they vary, and even the really thin ones usually don't quite let your Macbook close all the way, potentially putting pressure on a narrow point.
  • dogma1138 6y ago
    TBH the thing I’ve noticed is just how fast people stopped turning cameras on during Webex. Before the nearly everyone at my company what was WFH or was joining from their laptop rather than a video conferencing room had their camera on. Within like a week of the lockdown people stopped and I can imagine why you stopped dressing, stopped shaving heck I can hear bedsheets on some of the calls I attend. Pretty much now the cameras are useless.
    • jabroni_salad 6y ago
      Something I noticed specifically with webex is that the latency isn't nearly as bad in audio-only mode. Not as good as Mumble or Discord, but you can actually have a decent phone call.
    • dharmab 6y ago
      That might vary by team. My team/org still uses cameras a lot as it makes it easier to empathize and be empathized with. Especially if we're trying to be persuasive, a human face is easier to emotionally connect with than a voice.
    • _bxg1 6y ago
      That's some pretty broad-strokes-painting. I'm still on a video call every week, and I'm not in as many meetings as most of my coworkers. I'm also in two separate weekly online roleplaying game groups and we use cameras for those because it's much less fun without the added expressiveness.
    • 6y ago
• etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
  > The camera is engineered so that it can’t activate without the camera indicator light also turning on. Has anyone torn down the hardware and verified this lately? It should not be a complicated feature at all. Just ensure you have the same voltage applied to your LED circuit as your camera circuit, and enforce that by having them on the same wire...
  • noja 6y ago
    Wait: that's not the same as having a camera cover. A camera cover guarantees that the camera can only work when the camera is uncovered. A camera light alerts you once the camera is already on.
    • markstos 6y ago
      Important distinction. If your microphone is compromised, your web cam might be triggered to turn on just long enough to take a photo, or the camera could turn on only when the mic is quiet and there are indications the person is not engaged with the computer.
      • 3pt14159 6y ago
        Should be a tiny mechanical device in addition to the light and it should only unlock with touch id. Same for microphone. Honestly, I want the same thing for phones too. The ease by which we are monitored is too damn high.
      • runarberg 6y ago
        Note that this is not only about security. Sometimes a user simply makes a mistake, or have an app configured the wrong way, and accidentally turn on their cameras without intending to. Nothing has been compromised, everything is secure, but they still suffered an unexpected exposure. A camera cover will prevent many of these situations.
    • tartoran 6y ago
      Yeah, light can turn on when one is looking away from the computer or sleeping and could potentially be spied on. A cover is a non spying guarantee, at least the visual part, spies can listen on the mic though
• blue1 6y ago
  A post-it note is about 0.07 mm thick, so according to the article it’s within the allowed limit of 0.1 mm.
• oskenso 6y ago
  > The camera is engineered so that it can’t activate without the camera indicator light also turning on. This is how you can tell if your camera is on. I'd assume this is done in firmware for the camera module?
  • goldfishlover 6y ago
    I still prefer a hardware solution or even a toggle, 1\2 the reason I like the cover is less for privacy and more to prevent joining meetings with the camera on when I'm not ready removes the need to always be thinking about some random indicator being on or off
  • ehavener 6y ago
    I'm guessing the light is part of the camera's power circuit. I don't think this would work for photos, though.
  • chrisjshull 6y ago
    Do camera modules need power? Could the LED be wired in series to the camera module voltage in wire?
  • valuearb 6y ago
    Hard wired to Camera power supply, no firmware necessary.
• gtm1260 6y ago
  I was very skeptical of the camera covers, but then through conversations with some of my co-workers, I realized that they weren't being used because people were worried about spies secretly turning on the camera. It was 90% of the time just peace of mind that their camera was actually off, instead of having to find the sometimes hard to see options in video chat programs etc.
  • slipheen 6y ago
    That's exactly it for me - I'm in a lot of remote meetings, and wouldn't want to be accidentality presenting without expecting to.
  • ashtonkem 6y ago
    With regard to privacy, the microphone is 100x more sensitive than the camera most of the time, and it’s much harder to secure.
    • iso1631 6y ago
      It certainly is, I have the option to 1) Block the camera and hope the microphone is on mute 2) Hope the camera isn't on and home the microphone isn't on 3) Not have the mac at all Clearly 1 is better than 2.
    • hanniabu 6y ago
      Mic-Lock: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KRC3G7R/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KRC3G7R/
      • dividedbyzero 6y ago
        This is just for external headsets.
        • hanniabu 6y ago
          No it's not. It's meant for any port, but this model has it's own port so you don't need to keep plugging and unplugging it. You can leave it in and daisy chain by plugging your headset or speaker into it rather than directly.
• foofoo55 6y ago
  Though fixed many years ago, there may be a lack of trust due to previous ability for malware to take snap shots without turning on the camera LED. https://www.theregister.com/2013/12/19/apple_isight_webcam_led_hack/ https://www.theregister.com/2013/12/19/apple_isight_webcam_l...
  • pantaloony 6y ago
    People also do it so they don't accidentally open something that's got the camera enabled. If you're a school teacher answering questions for students in the evening you don't want to click the wrong thing and turn on video, or close the lid with something running then open it later, having forgotten, and now you're broadcasting. Stuff like that. Whether teh haxx0rs can get at the camera is irrelevant for that reason of using covers. Personally I wish all my devices had hardware toggles for camera and mic, both. Phone included, since it's only a "phone" a small fraction of the time these days, the rest of the time it's a small Web-stuff device.
• quotha 6y ago
  Don't make all MacBook's with a camera that a lot of your customers want to cover up all the time.
• miles 6y ago
  > "Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. ... Published Date: July 02, 2020" Perhaps Apple missed these? 2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-can-be-hacked/ https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... 2016: Former NSA employee: This hack gains access to your Mac's webcam https://www.cnet.com/news/mac-webcam-hack-ex-nsa-employee/ https://www.cnet.com/news/mac-webcam-hack-ex-nsa-employee/
  • toxik 6y ago
    Fud, these don’t work anymore.
    • electrotype 6y ago
      these
    • OrangeKnucles 6y ago
      Something new will come that will work.
    • zdragnar 6y ago
      The fact that they worked at all is an indication that something similar may work in the future. It's not like apple has never had a regression in software.
      • gist 6y ago
        Risk to the average apple customer is? Do you think that most people need to worry about this? Point Apple is making is it's not needed for the vast majority of their users and if you feel better use a piece of paper. So let's stipulate it can happen (because well it can happen). That would take both someone being targeted en masse (prior to apple having a fix in place) and it making a difference to the person or people it happened to. Is that really a big enough risk to spend time worrying about?
• bzb3 6y ago
  The alternative, the led, is not that good. Even if it's 100% hardware controlled, just a brief flash is enough to take a picture of you.
  • duskwuff 6y ago
    IIRC, it takes about half a second for the camera to initialize from power-off and take a photo. The flash this creates is pretty noticeable. Besides, on current versions of macOS, you need to grant permissions to an app before it can use the camera.
  • axoltl 6y ago
    You should try this on a recent (last 4-5 years or so) Macbook! There is a hardware timer that forces the LED on for at least 3 seconds even if the camera only grabs a single frame.
    • bzb3 6y ago
      I meant that by the time you notice the led, if you do, the picture was already taken and probably sent over the wire.
• XaspR8d 6y ago
  > The camera is engineered so that it can’t activate without the camera indicator light also turning on. This is how you can tell if your camera is on. Is this verifiably true? I trust Apple on security matters more than the average laptop maker, but the fact that so many of these indicator lights are software-controlled erodes my trust in basically all of them.
  • valuearb 6y ago
    Yep, for a decade Macs have been shipping with indicator lights hard wired to camera power.
  • pfranz 6y ago
    This [1] is the best source I've seen. 2008 era Mac laptops definitely had that exploit, but since then they've made hardware changes. > All cameras after that one were different: The hardware team tied the LED to a hardware signal from the sensor: If the (I believe) vertical sync was active, the LED would light up. There is NO firmware control to disable/enable the LED. The actual firmware is indeed flashable, but the part is not a generic part and there are mechanisms in place to verify the image being flashed. […] [1] https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams
• vngzs 6y ago
  If you're going to cover it, use a sticker, like the EFF stickers here[0]. They're reusable, so you can move it to the side for meetings. I used a hard plastic MongoDB-branded sliding camera cover on a couple laptops[1], and its presence appears to have contributed to backlight bleed like this[2]. [0]: https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set-ii https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set-ii [1]: https://www.amazon.com/C-Slide-Sliding-Computers-Chromebooks-Consoles/dp/B00AZ639VG https://www.amazon.com/C-Slide-Sliding-Computers-Chromebooks... [2]: https://i.imgur.com/P264KiI.jpg https://i.imgur.com/P264KiI.jpg
  • windexh8er 6y ago
    Came here to say this. Have been using the EFF stickers for years and everyone always asks about them vs the kludgey plastic ones everyone wedges in there that Apple is making note of. I've used them in the past on my phones as well, but given the advent of multiple front facing cameras this has become more of a pain. I purchased some of this sticker material a while ago with the intent to try and laser cut some specific designs. This was a good reminder!
    • mrignacio 6y ago
      What type of material is it exactly? I want to source some for myself but don't know what type of sticker will be "ultra-removeable" and reusable.
      • windexh8er 6y ago
        That's the part that I was struggling to figure out. I ended up purchasing some reusable vinyl window stick material from a hobby shop, but have yet to test it.
  • pabs3 6y ago
    The stickers that grocery stores have on apples, avocados and other fruit is also useful for this.
    • 6y ago
• colanderman 6y ago
  This is not helpful advice for those who wish to prevent their camera from turning on in the first place.
• diafygi 6y ago
  The EFF sells some removable stickers that cover your laptop camera while still being able to close the lid fully. https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set-ii https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set-ii Been using them for years, and they work great!
• fortran77 6y ago
  I'm glad my computer comes with a built-in cover. No need to jerry-rig anything on. It reminds me of this old Apple ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZByDkSuY5c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZByDkSuY5c
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• live_video 6y ago
  Japanese washi tape is the perfect solution to the 'covering the webcam' problem. It leaves no residue and resticks over and over.
• tartoran 6y ago
  Lenovos have a physical cover that can be shut when camera is not in use. It’s paranoia free and tape is no longer needed for that. Maybe apple could do something similar for their users comfort
• wtallis 6y ago
  Tangentially related: I have an HP notebook that has a physical webcam switch near the USB ports and microSD slot. This switch is not wired to the webcam in any way. It's a USB HID device. You need to install software drivers to make that switch function as a control of the webcam. That is insane.
• poorman 6y ago
  All the indicator light tells you is that "you are being watched". Not sure that gives people peace of mind that they won't be watched.
• sologoub 6y ago
  Or Apple could just include a cover into the lid, like many other manufacturers already do. For example: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/circuitbreaker/2018/2/7/16979810/hp-elitebook-zbook-2018-announced-webcam-cover-g5 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/c...
  • eugeniub 6y ago
    Apple: Not even in your dreams pal.
    • sologoub 6y ago
      So true!
  • tersers 6y ago
    Not until Apple makes a lid so thin it rivals a shaving razor
  • asldihgiyug 6y ago
    You mean sell a premium camera cover for $50?
    • altfredd 6y ago
      You have forgotten to type a handful of zeroes...
• bo1024 6y ago
  It's so interesting that we've arrived in a state where people, for good reason, cannot trust "their" devices in the slightest. On the computer where you do all your online banking or taxes or whatever, you don't feel safe without sticking something over the camera. Makes me very proud to support Purism laptops with their camera/microphone hardware killswitches and FOSS software (I know FOSS is not the same as secure, but at least incentives are aligned). On desktop I use FOSS software and physically plug in a webcam for meetings.
  • astrange 6y ago
    > It's so interesting that we've arrived in a state where people, for good reason, cannot trust "their" devices in the slightest. On the computer where you do all your online banking or taxes or whatever, you don't feel safe without sticking something over the camera. That really doesn't mean anything, because the people who post on here just like to not trust things. It makes them look cool when they're posting. You can always use evil maids or Russell's teapot or any argument you like as an excuse to be cynical, it's not like it can be disproven.
    • bo1024 6y ago
      I don't follow you. Lots of people put stickers over their cameras, not just hacker news posters, and furthermore, I think we all agree they have good reason to do so, it's not just posturing to look cool. (Also to me, "I bought a $2700 computer and I can't even trust it not to photograph me" is the opposite of cool, but I digress.) Also, I trust my chair, my bicycle, my car to a great extent (made in 2001 though), and quite a few other kinds of technology. So I don't understand what you're saying here.
• svntid 6y ago
  I hope they realize covering the camera is meant to prevent the camera from being able to make a image in the first place. Even if the light indicates and I am aware of the fact that I have been photographed. It would not have been possible if it was covered.
• bwooceli 6y ago
  One More Thing: the iNote. This magical pad of sticky notes will elegantly cover the camera and preserve the structural integrity of your display.
• YetAnotherNick 6y ago
  I don't understand this debate around blocking camera. If your laptop has already been hacked such that the attacker has access to disable the green light(if we could be disable by prevailed account in the worst case), wouldn't you have more serious things to worry about? I mean worst case they could film me nude or something.
  • dividedbyzero 6y ago
    That's correct, but it's not why I have a cover on my camera. I really like the peace of mind of knowing that my camera really is off during a meeting. I guess it's the same for many people, especially working from home without a dedicated office.
• planar_vector 6y ago
  Can someone help me understand the extent of possible damage by having a webcam cover? This might at least inform me if its worth the risk. When Apple says "you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances", do they mean? - the display itself could have scratches? - the display connector at the hinge has a chance of weakening? - others?
  • joezydeco 6y ago
    Extra pressure on the LCD cover glass. On my MBA there's a small metal lip around the lid and the LCD is recessed into that. Something thicker than the lip sitting on the glass would negate the relief the lip provides.
  • cjbconnor 6y ago
    If the camera cover is too thick it's very easy to crack the display itself by closing the lid too quickly
  • arn 6y ago
    MacBook Pro screens have gotten cracked due to camera covers: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/07/10/apple-macbook-camera-cover-warning/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/07/10/apple-macbook-camera-co...
  • duskwuff 6y ago
    The webcam is behind the same pane of glass as the display. It's similar construction to a typical modern cell phone. When the laptop is closed, the webcam lands around the bottom of the trackpad. There's a small gap between the screen and the lower lid, and the trackpad is recessed slightly, but not by much, and it doesn't have any "give". A bulky webcam cover will strike the trackpad and may shatter the glass of the display and/or the trackpad, especially if the laptop is closed quickly.
  • finger 6y ago
    I had a basic post-it like bookmark sticker on my macbook pro camera for years. Over time the black coating on the bezels started wearing off where the sticker was placed. Not much of an issue though, as this was purely a cosmetic issue.
• Angeo34 6y ago
  After reading this help article by Apple I will sell all my Apple devices and never buy anything again from them. This post by Apple is confirmation to me that they were spying though the camera. In recent years I have seen more and more people do this with nearly every single Mac owner I know doing this (and that's a lot of people). I don't think it's Apple conducting the espionage but rather LEAs of totalitarian undemocratic country (US, China) performing economical espionage. It makes sense that Germany is the country that is by far most affected by industrial and economical espionage. And it makes sense that nearly all of the spying is conducted by the US and Chins whether it be industrial economical scientifical or political.
  • valuearb 6y ago
    Since Mac camera indicator lights are hard wired to camera power supply, your theory is impossible.
• bargle0 6y ago
  I use a piece of black sticky note cut out to cover the camera. It doesn't interfere with the closing mechanism, it comes off clean, and it doesn't require trusting Apple.
• jackgavigan 6y ago
  Use a sticky piece of Post-It note instead.
• thisisbrians 6y ago
  I'd love to just have a physical kill switch for the camera/mic.
• hyko 6y ago
  Here’s the document explaining how it’s physically impossible to use the microphone when the MacBook lid is closed: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/1/web/1 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/... Where is the equivalent document explaining how it’s physically impossible for the camera to be active without the green LED lighting up?
  • randyrand 6y ago
    Would be nice if they explained how the hardware worked. Hardware is not free from bugs. Ask any hardware manufacturer!
  • abstrakraft 6y ago
    They also claim that if you add a (MFI-compliant) case to the iPad, and close it, that this similarly disconnects the microphone. The simplest mechanism to do this sounds complicated enough that it reduces my confidence in the mechanism. The point of half the comments in this thread is that a hardware interlock mechanism needs to be dead simple. This sounds like a step in the wrong direction.
    • arrrg 6y ago
      How could a complicated mechanism compared to no mechanism be a step in the wrong direction?
      • abstrakraft 6y ago
        The whole point of this thread is that Apple is telling us to not rely on dead simple devices (camera covers, tape, etc.), and instead to trust their internal mechanism that they claim can't be beat. If people take them at face value, but the mechanism is in fact complex enough to admit an exploitable vulnerability, that's a net loss of security, and is a step in the wrong direction.
        • arrrg 6y ago
          But you are talking about microphones which you cannot simply cover. I admit, muffling them is better than nothing – but in the case of microphones Apple doesn’t even advise you not to cover them. Either way, this is just an effect of common covers seemingly breaking screens. Which sucks. However, depending on your risk profile the re-assurance of a hardware solution that lights up the LED might be plenty for you.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• 1024core 6y ago
  That's why I have placed a very thin sticker on the camera. Apple can kiss my ass.
• alanbernstein 6y ago
  Reading this, I had the idea to create a sliding cover, in the same style as the bulky plastic ones, but made out of a sticky note. Turns out this was not an original idea, and the person who beat me to it has a much slicker design than what I had in mind, using a single sticky note, cut in two pieces, with a symmetric design. http://www.linux-works.de/Wiki/OrigamiWebCamCover?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=CamCover.pdf http://www.linux-works.de/Wiki/OrigamiWebCamCover?action=Att...
• napier 6y ago
  > Downside of covering your MacBook camera: "If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances. Covering the built-in camera might also interfere with the ambient light sensor and prevent features like automatic brightness and True Tone from working." Upside: a square of post-it or similar stuck over the camera gives you peace of mind assurance that this particular lens of the digital panopticon isn't watching you.
• ph4te 6y ago
  I learned this the hard way with one of these slide covers from CloudFlare I got at BlackHat Conference. Picked up the Mac with one hand and I heard the crack. Needlees to say I now have a vinyl type sticky cover I just move on and off when I need to use the camera. Apple replaced the screen for me for a small fee of course. https://www.ipromo.com/promo-products/20101/Custom-Webcam-Covers.html https://www.ipromo.com/promo-products/20101/Custom-Webcam-Co...
• abrowne 6y ago
  I always wonder why the people who cover webcams don't think about the mic. Isn't that almost worse? It could grab speech even if you aren't right in front of the camera.
  • sky_rw 6y ago
    The much more real-world use case for me is guaranteeing I won't join a video conference call with my camera on. In light of all the WFH zoom accidental nudity videos going around, its no surprise camera covers have become more prevalent.
• epberry 6y ago
  Covering the camera is so silly. Do people also stuff the microphone hole with glue? Do they reinstall the keyboard and look for trackers. Do they think about all the software they use which is collecting far more information than grainy shots of your face could ever provide?
• jcun4128 6y ago
  Lol I have electrical tape with a piece of paper on the part that goes over the camera lens. Use both 2015 and 16" Also not sure about this "tight tolerance" as there's a rubber seam all the way around the screen that would have a gap between the camera and laptop body right?
• reaperducer 6y ago
  Looking at the comments here, I guess I'm the only one who finds sadness that Apple even has to publish this document. Some of those novelty and promotional camera covers are really quite thick. And it just seems like common sense to me that you wouldn't close a laptop with one of those things on. Just like I wouldn't close my laptop with a pen or a ham sandwich tucked into it. But I guess Apple has had enough complaints that they had to issue something. I can only hope that the department that writes these things was shaking its head the whole time.
  • dabernathy89 6y ago
    This is the one that destroyed the screen on my 16" MBP. 0.023 inches thick. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C24NBGL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_TkeSEbCAYCA73 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C24NBGL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_T...
    • jorge-d 6y ago
      It's quite similar to the one I've been using on my 2018 15" MBP for the past two years. Can you give more information on the cause of the problem? Did you close the macbook very firmly and it broke?
      • dabernathy89 6y ago
        I also used one on a 15" MBP (albeit 2015 model) for a long time with no trouble. I don't recall closing the lid particularly hard when it broke, though I may have.
    • iso947 6y ago
      That’s about half a mm. what the hell happens to Apple laptops if you get a coin trapped in there When did Apple start building such fragile devices?
      • draebek 6y ago
        Is that a common thing for you, having a coin closed in your laptop? :)
• cosmodisk 6y ago
  I've got Dell XPS 13. The only camera indicator I trust is sticky tape on top the camera every time I don't need. Little blinking lights I trust not.
• jb775 6y ago
  I use a small piece of black electrical tape to cover the camera, and another small piece to cover the mic. It peels off easily and retains stickiness pretty well.
• runxel 6y ago
  Just as a social observation I noticed a pattern which always struck me pretty hard: Nearly all (say 9 out of 10, and not, it's not an exaggeration) of my friends – me included FWIW – have some kind of cover over their webcams. This is true even for people who you would describe as the opposite of tech-savvy. Sometimes these folks even have no ad blocker installed and use Chrome happily. But still: Everybody has something over their webcams. It is truly ubiquitous! Might it be we dislike the fact something like an eye stares us right into the face all the time?
  • rahkiin 6y ago
    And no microphone cover, and no cover for either on their phones
  • gruez 6y ago
    Probably because it's more concrete than some abstract threat like the ad industry building a dossier on you, or the NSA spying on your web browsing habits and phone records. John Oliver uses this to great effect when talking about NSA surveillance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M
• gswdh 6y ago
  Why didn't they attach the LED indicator to the PSU to one of the image sensor PSU rail? Thus in order for the camera to physically function, the LED must be on. Why not use a hardware interlock? Unless you have physical access this is literally unhackable.
• once-in-a-while 6y ago
  Use a (black/dark) spray. You never want the camera to be active anyway... (and if you really want to, hey, remember to be creative!)
• dabernathy89 6y ago
  Yep. https://twitter.com/dabernathy89/status/1257341572267548673 https://twitter.com/dabernathy89/status/1257341572267548673 https://twitter.com/dabernathy89/status/1257350535440748547 https://twitter.com/dabernathy89/status/1257350535440748547
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• elsonrodriguez 6y ago
  If someone can hack your camera, they've probably already got the ability to capture your screen, keystrokes, and data.
• meddlepal 6y ago
  I put a piece of scotch tape and a thin piece of paper of it regardless.
• chansiky 6y ago
  With everything being digital these days, physical failsafes are slowly becoming a luxury. I love having the vibration/sound-on hard toggle on my iphone. I don't see why this can't exist for something people feel so insecure about like webcam functionality - a physical toggle that physically disconnects webcam wiring.
• aloukissas 6y ago
  The easiest solution: opaque scotch tape
• cpursley 6y ago
  This is exactly what destroyed my 2020 Pro. Gowing forward its a ThinkPad with Linux. For serious work I need a serious machine.
• rvense 6y ago
  Meanwhile, my new Thinkpad has a camera cover built in...
• maallooc 6y ago
  Amazing how this post and privacy in general attracts schizos like light in the night attracting moths.
• CapitalistCartr 6y ago
  I don't want a warning light. I don't want audited code. I don't want encryption. I don't want security updates. I want the fucking camera to not take pictures without my turning it on.
  • valuearb 6y ago
    Great news, Mac camera lights are hardwired to the camera, and have been for ten years, no code necessary!
    • stevenwliao 6y ago
      The light only tells them after their camera turns on, so it doesn't address their concern.
      • valuearb 6y ago
        Neither does a camera cover given no one will remember to always close it after calls. The hardwired status light is far better, you know as soon as you’ve been hacked, and well before they are likely to see anything compromising.
        • stevenwliao 6y ago
          Privacy isn't binary. It's a spectrum. A light and sometimes remembering to close the camera cover is better than a light and no cover.
• darth_avocado 6y ago
  Has anyone here not heard of duct tape?
• rglover 6y ago
  I've had my barn door over my camera for years. It prevents a perfect seal but my screen works great. I'm sure this is valid in one way or another, but I don't buy this for a second. Adjusts tinfoil hat
• ivalm 6y ago
  But the problem is not indication that attack happened (light turned on). It is too late if the camera was used even if I was notified! The camera cover is not an indicator of use, it prevents use. Indicator of use is not sufficient.
• low_key 6y ago
  "might also interfere with the ambient light sensor and prevent features like automatic brightness" Oh, if I could only get automatic brightness to actually turn off!!!! I keep the sensor covered with electrical tape because that's the closest I've been able to get.
  • pfranz 6y ago
    https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/change-your-displays-brightness-mchlp2704/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/change-your-display... Does that preference not work for you?
• aczerepinski 6y ago
  If they sold a model without a camera for the same price, I would have bought that. The camera on MacBooks is terrible anyway, and you can buy a USB camera that's significantly better for less than $100. Since that isn't an option, I keep a square torn from a post-it note over the camera.
• theo31 6y ago
  I broke my 16"'s screen because of this, and they asked me to pay $1000 to fix it. This was in January right after the 16" came out.
• ludwigvan 6y ago
  Broke my Macbook Pro's display after I unplugged my earphones, accidentally left the tip of the earphone at the edge and closed the lid lightly. So beware of that too.
• ryanmcbride 6y ago
  According to that it's fine if it's thin enough. I always just use a little piece of electrical tape. Not really worried about spying just like the piece of mind that I won't accidentally be seen nude on a zoom call.
• stevespang 6y ago
  piece of aluminum foil, duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
• 2trill2spill 6y ago
  I've had tape over my camera on my mac pro for over 10 years and have had no problems. And no Apple I don't trust the light indicator.
  • Tempest1981 6y ago
    A small square of electrical tape works nicely, and can be moved aside if need be. But will it cause damage?
• floatboth 6y ago
  On the Google Pixelbook though, a camera cover is great for closing the worrying huge gap in between the lid and the touchpad in the closed state! :D
• catalogia 6y ago
  Forget LEDs, hardware switches, and all the rest, what I want to know is why Apple is making hardware so fragile that a simple piece of tape might damage it.
• leogout 6y ago
  How does the smart backlight can adjust luminosity without triggering the webcam's indicator then ? (genuenly curious, I don't know how it works)
  • gundmc 6y ago
    I think the sensors are located near but not part of the camera assembly. Covering the camera is also likely to cover the light sensor.
  • banana_giraffe 6y ago
    There's a separate ambient light sensor. On some models you can make out the three separate holes above the monitor, one for the webcam, one for the led, and one for the light sensor. I can't for the life of me see it with more recent models, but if block the camera it's clearly still there since it can respond to light changes, but if you block enough of the area around the camera, it'll default to assuming you're in darkness.
• lmilcin 6y ago
  The track record of Apple keeping their camera light shine when camera is in use does not strike confidence and that's why people want to use something more advanced like tape. Unfortunately, everybody is focused on camera and forget that way more valuable information can be leaked through microphone and other sensors.
• moonchild 6y ago
  The real meat of TFA: > Make sure the camera cover is not thicker than an average piece of printer paper (0.1mm)
  • pfranz 6y ago
    I think being aware of covering the ambient light/True Tone sensor is also significant.
• ab_io 6y ago
  Simply cut a small rectangle out of the sticky part of a Post-It note for a safe camera cover that easy to remove and reuse.
• GekkePrutser 6y ago
  I just tape mine off. Apple webcams are pretty horrible anyway (current generation is even worse than a few ones ago). Noisy and blurry in anything less than ideal lighting conditions. So if I'm on a serious videocall I use an external one anyway.
• tandav 6y ago
  https://youtu.be/Zof-TH8hZ20 https://youtu.be/Zof-TH8hZ20
• ApolloRising 6y ago
  Is there actually a non adhesive camera cover that is .1 mm in thickness? Smallest I can see is .55 mm.
• hilyen 6y ago
  Unless there is a physical disconnect from mic or camera, assume its insecure. This goes with all electronics.
• mekkkkkk 6y ago
  Simple solution for those who are security minded: physically break the built in mic and camera through some precision hammer and needle work, and connect peripherals when you need em. I'm half serious.
• murat124 6y ago
  I've been using this[1] for the last 4 years. It's soft fabric and it can be easily removed. The adhesive can be reactivated with a tiny drop of water and it can be reattached easily. [1]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JY8C606 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JY8C606
• throw7 6y ago
  Surprised Apple didn't announce it's selling a $500 camera cover for your MacBook.
• coronadisaster 6y ago
  I use electrical tape on mine (not a macbook).
• unexaminedlife 6y ago
  I cover my camera (not MacBook, but I did when I had one). Partially because of what you read about hacks. BUT, the main reason I cover my camera is as a stop gap to user error. I have started chats with people (co-workers, etc) where I accidentally enabled the camera. Wasn't entirely "presentable" either, wearing just an undershirt or haven't shaved for several days, etc. Luckily all they saw was a black square. Will never NOT cover my cameras when not in use because of these experiences.
• rajacombinator 6y ago
  It’s ok they’re only 720p so you’ll be blurry if someone hacks you.
• mhammerc 6y ago
  I can relate, I broke my MBP16 screen because of a camera cover. Apple repaired my mac for free without a hitch.
• modzu 6y ago
  oh i get it, watching for a light to see if the camera is on is equivalent to covering the camera
• brailsafe 6y ago
  They should amend this article to mention that because they haven't updated the camera in 7 years, customers should rest assured in knowing that even if compromised, nobody will be able to make anything out on the other end ;)
• pests 6y ago
  The light might not make a difference. Wasn't there an NSA tool leaked that would turn on the camera, grab a picture, and have it off again before it would be lit up? It would be technically possible.
  • pfranz 6y ago
    Years ago there was an article about 2008 era Mac laptops that could enable their cameras without turning on the LED. I believe the camera firmware was read from RAM on boot. So they just intercepted that. Since then they redesigned the hardware to tie the LED to the sensor camera source. AFAIK Apple hasn't published any official documents on this. I, too, would be curious if it could be hijacked by only taking a still image or modulating the power, but I haven't of anyone actually do this. Their laptop cameras haven't changed in like a decade. The only change was making it physically thinner to match thinner screens. The image quality actually got a little worse.
• tluyben2 6y ago
  My mbp cam light started to be always on about a year ago, so I have a sticker over it. They cannot fix trivial things so it cannot be trusted. I checked for malware; nothing; if it is malware, the scanner did not find it.
• chuckleMuscle 6y ago
  A person I with used to work for the UK’s Atomic Weapons Establishment. Apparently their former employer’s preferred method of disabling the camera on a MacBook was to break the lens using a nail and hammer...
  • saagarjha 6y ago
    Isn’t the lens behind the screen glass? How did they break the lens without shattering the screen too?
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
• rgbrenner 6y ago
  As an alternative to a camera cover, use the camera indicator light to determine if your camera is active I've been thinking about privacy all wrong. I thought it was about preventing access to my data... but Apple has cleared up my misunderstanding and now I know that it's just about being notified when my data is stolen. Everyone feel free to post your credit card numbers... your privacy is secure, since your bank will let you know in the form of a bill when it's accessed without your permission. Thanks Apple!
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  • coldtea 6y ago
    >I've been thinking about privacy all wrong. I thought it was about preventing access to my data... but Apple has cleared up my misunderstanding and now I know that it's just about being notified when my data is stolen. This comment makes absolutely zero sense in more ways than one. First, in the post Apple also says how you can control exactly which apps have access to the camera in the privacy settings. And, like, not give access to any, if you don't feel like so. Second, the green light is not about "notified when your data is being stolen" is about being informed if/when you are filmed. In which case, you can just close the lid, quit the app, or do anything you like to prevent it. Your reasoning is like arguing ironically against an alert vendor that "I thought the problem was getting my valuables stolen, but now the vendor has cleared up my misunderstanding and now I know that it's just about being notified when my valuables are stolen".
    • elliekelly 6y ago
      You’re missing the point. By the time the light is on it’s too late - your privacy has already been violated. Closing the lid only mitigates a camera privacy violation in progress. Covering the camera prevents the privacy violation from happening in the first place. One is a proactive measure and the other is reactive.
    • KeepFlying 6y ago
      But in those few moments between when I notice the light and when I close the app/lid, my data has been stolen already. If I'm in a compromising position, I don't want ANY footage of it to be created. If it is a so how frame or multiple seconds, I'm not okay with it. So being told that the notification light is equivalent to covering the camera entirely doesn't line up for me.
• polyterative 6y ago
  What if a bad actor activates the cam for less than 10ms at a time or less time that the LED takes to kick on
• zelon88 6y ago
  None of the proposed solutions do anything to actually stop the camera from taking a picture of you. Sure, you'll see the indicator light up for 3 seconds. But the attacker still got what they needed. Camera covers have nothing to do with identifying compromise. They are strictly for preventing compromise. This is exactly opposite what a camera indicator light does, and thus the indicator should not be considered a "workaround" for not being able to install a camera cover.
  • crazygringo 6y ago
    This is a great point. This could be solved in software at the OS-level with a permission dialog that popped up every time the camera was asked to be activated (as opposed to an ongoing website permission). Which would be overly annoying for most, but appreciated by a privacy-conscious minority. But unless Apple ever did that (doubtful), once you see the green light it's already too late. It does make me wonder if something like that could ever be done with a kernel extension or similar?
    • Aeolun 6y ago
      But that would be hackable, so still not as secure as just covering the camera, which is absolutely foolproof.
    • jackson1442 6y ago
      This is something you can use OverSight for, it opens a permission banner each time the camera/mic is accessed, with an option to whitelist apps. https://objective-see.com/products/oversight.html https://objective-see.com/products/oversight.html
    • zelon88 6y ago
      Personally I think a hardware switch that disabled the mic and camera is the best route. Engineers would have to be honest in actually connecting the switch directly to the camera rather than resorting to some firmware tom-foolery. Then you could wire the indicator to the switch as a visual reminder that your camera is attached to your PC.
• SMAAART 6y ago
  Nice try FBI
• shmerl 6y ago
  If they cared about protecting privacy, they could add a physical shutter. Nothing hard about it.
• dialamac 6y ago
  I think the underlying stupidity is that no matter how good or bad the indicator is, that’s is fundamentally different than blocking the camera altogether. This is like telling you to not use a lock if you have an alarm.
• everdrive 6y ago
  So, Apple has done a nice job of making the sure the LED comes on when the webcam is in use. Unfortunately, there are still very good use cases for webcam covers. - The computer has malware which controls the webcam. Although it's nice that the light correctly alerts you the webcam is in use, the malware can still get some pictures off before you can act. - You're not very good with computers, and so you don't know how to change Zoom settings, and you want a surefire way to ensure that you camera will not be active when you join a call. - You're just fine with computers, but the app has changed its defaults for some reason, and/or; - Your company mandates a new app which you're either not familiar with, or doesn't have appropriate settings.
  • sowbug 6y ago
    - You can't see.
• lone_haxx0r 6y ago
  > Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. That's great, but we'll need the electronic schematics and the OS source code to trust that.
• jamilbk 6y ago
  An indicator light is good and well but, you kinda have to be present to monitor it in order to stop it. Someone can record all the video they want if you’re not around to notice. And that still leaves the possibility for it to snap a photo of you present at the computer before you can react to stop it. So far it has stopped me once or twice from picking my nose on camera. So not totally useless. /s
• ProAm 6y ago
  Good ol Apple always telling you how to use your hardware that you paid for.
• birdyrooster 6y ago
  A piece of tape will work just fine
• 12xo 6y ago
  Electrical tape...
• didibus 6y ago
  Apple Support: Wait until the light turn green, and then put a tape cover on your camera. ️
  • coldtea 6y ago
    Or you know, if you never see a green light, you never had any problem. How about that? Tin foil much?
    • airstrike 6y ago
      Unless the LED somehow gets disabled, stops working, or something like it. It's not like the tape is ineffective, so why does Apple care if people use it?
      • Widdershin 6y ago
        Because it can damage the laptop?
        • ekianjo 6y ago
          Because they designed it poorly without understanding end users?
          • kick 6y ago
            A minority of end users cares enough to actually put tape over their webcam.
            • ekianjo 6y ago
              Surely a minority, but it's steadily increasing even among non-technical folks. I see it all the time nowadays.
            • Jweb_Guru 6y ago
              Not as small of a minority as you think.
• aritraghosh007 6y ago
  So Apple finally wakes up and tells us that camera covers ruin displays, why now really?
• InafuSabi 6y ago
  Only hard switches can guarantee blocks to equipment. Any soft switch can be overridden. I use electrical isolation tape on all cams pointed at me, always on androids & even on linux notebooks. I always physically disconnect mics I dont use, if in notebooks I put a blob on removable glue on them
• nojito 6y ago
  Funny how people are so worried about the webcam...and yet they don't realize that there is a microphone easily available. Apple restricts access to the mic via the T2 chip https://www.apple.com/euro/macbook-pro-13/docs/a/Apple_T2_Security_Chip_Overview.pdf https://www.apple.com/euro/macbook-pro-13/docs/a/Apple_T2_Se...
• kirykl 6y ago
  A simple bandaid placed over the camera works well and is thin enough to not interfere
• victor9000 6y ago
  I use a small strip of black electrical tape and it works out great. It has virtually no profile and disappears into the black margin of my laptop screen.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• all_blue_chucks 6y ago
  Cameras and mics need hardware off-switches on all mobile devices. Not a digital switch that sends a signal to a CPU - I mean a slider switch that physically disconnects wires.
• j45 6y ago
  If you have access to Gaffer tape it's up to the task of covering when you need, and electrical tape cut down will do in a pinch.
• Groxx 6y ago
  Vinyl static-cling stickers work pretty well.
• mitko 6y ago
  For what it's worth, EFF has privacy stickers which are easy to re-apply multiple times and should be thin enough to close the laptop fine. I've been using them for a while.
• winrid 6y ago
  I have MacBooks with big dents in them. I'm pretty sure a piece of tape isn't going to break my MacBook.
• ekianjo 6y ago
  > The FaceTime HD camera built into your Mac computer is designed with your privacy in mind and uses a camera indicator light that glows green when the camera is active. So you will always know when the camera is on. Erm, the whole point is that you can't trust this kind of indicator on an OS that's completely closed source.
  • pfranz 6y ago
    My understanding is that the LED is hard-wired the power source of the camera sensor. There's no separate software command to turn the LED on. All Macs run Windows and most run Linux pretty well. So you /could/ audit at least one open source software implementation. However, like many others have mentioned in this thread, personally I see the value in having a physical cover in addition.
• S_A_P 6y ago
  I don’t use the sliding cover. I put black electrical tape over the camera. I keep a roll in my computer bag in case of an unusual scenario that I would need to use the camera. As soon as that is over I replace the tape. If it leaves a sticky residue? Oh well. Sorry. I have a phone if you absolutely need to see me. Also- why isn’t the iPhone camera engineered the same way as the Mac? How many apps/websites would love to have footage of compromising moments?
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• sockythesock 6y ago
  I am shocked at the people defending apple. A thin piece of tape shouldn't be enough to damage the laptop. That's terrible design. I hate to make the cliche comparison, but this is why newer think pads have the camera cover built in. "Dont cover the camera, YOU could hurt your 2500 dollar device." In my opinion, this response from apple says: They didnt know people covered their webcams. Or They dont want people covering their webcams.
• f0ok 6y ago
  Some IBM ThinkPads have physical cover for camera. I wonder why.
• natch 6y ago
  > The camera is engineered so that it can’t activate without the camera indicator light also turning on. Unless your laptop has been rerouted to Ft Meade for custom modifications prior to its delivery by our shipping partners.
• lnyan 6y ago
  If the the camera indicator light is enough, why did ThinkPad bother to adopt the camera shutter. Built-in camera shutter is a great design that really cares about users' privacy.
• vulcan01 6y ago
  What's the problem with the following? Why are y'all complaining? > Make sure the camera cover is not thicker than an average piece of printer paper
• jazzabeanie 6y ago
  > Covering the built-in camera might also interfere with the ambient light sensor and prevent features like automatic brightness and True Tone from working. I don’t see the LED come on any time I’m not actually using the camera, so I’m guessing the True Tone sensor is near the camera and it doesn’t actually use the camera. So as long as the sticker only covers the camera it should be ok? Also, my Mac has a lip around the edge of the screen which is probably thicker than most stickers.
• thread_id 6y ago
  I find that using black electrical tape works just fine and fits within the space between the display and the keyboard without any problems at all.
• girishso 6y ago
  Too little too late. Wish I knew that before, I broke my MacBook Air camera with that tiny sliding cover. Tried SMC reset and what not. It works “sometimes” though.
• sholladay 6y ago
  This could probably be solved by an accessory with a loose flap. Gravity would naturally ensure that the flap covers the camera when the display is vertical, but hangs over the edge to avoid getting sandwiched when the lid is closed. Not sure if the dimensions quite work out for this as Macbooks are very thin, but with some thoughtful design, I think this concept could work.
• touchpadder 6y ago
  Nice try, Apple
• PostThisTooFast 6y ago
  In other words, we've made another flimsy-ass product for the sake of thinness that no one asked for.
• johne20 6y ago
  This happened to me. Twice. I bought a 16" mbp when it was released because the keyboard of the previous mbp gave me carpal tunnel. I immediately added a camera cover like I always had done on macs. My screen stopped working a few days later, but mbp still worked on my external monitor. I took it in and they replaced the display for free via applecare. Once I got my mbp back, I added the camera cover again (stupidly). The next day I opened my mbp, and had a line down the center of my screen. That is when I realized what had happened. I then told Apple exactly what I think happened. And to their credit, the replaced it (again) for free. Over the next weeks, I received 3 different calls from Apple staff, with seemingly increased responsibilities. They all asked detailed questions investigating what I thought happened and in what sequence. I am not surprised to see this support article.
  • aloer 6y ago
    What kind of cover was this? My company provides a ~1.2mm thick plastic cover with a little slider inside. I didn't even trust it enough to be used on a thinkpad, much less a macbook What I do now is either ripping off a small piece of the sticky top of sticky notes (keep the remainder for later reuse) or a piece of washi tape.
    • praseodym 6y ago
      Post-it Page Markers or Flags work great as well and are already the correct size for most laptops.
      • eternalban 6y ago
        You mean the small plastic strips? I mix 3 colors on top of each other and snip off the non-adhesive end. Works great, even looks ok, with minimal raised surface.
    • _fat_santa 6y ago
      Yeah looking at the thickness of most camera covers, I always thought "hmm this might damage the display if I close it". Well looks like this support article proves my point. I always used sticky notes or other stuff. Now thought I've got a standalone webcam that can tilt up and down so I just tilt up so it's facing my ceiling. I look forward to getting extorted by hackers threatening to tell the world what my ceiling looks like.
• pcurve 6y ago
  Not just Apple. I have Lenovo yoga. Put a sliding cover. Now I have cracked display cover though led panel is ok. Don’t do it folks
  • ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
    Just don't masturbate in front of your laptop.
• ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
  I have personally used a camera cover on 4 macbook pros and 1 macbook air, I have friends and colleagues who have done so as well, I've never heard of anyone having an issue. Just my 2cents.
• k_sze 6y ago
  I put a piece of Scotch tape and blacken the area just around the “pupil” with a permanent marker. This way, I can still see the indicator light. You could use something like acrylic paint if you are extra cautious/paranoid.
• GoatHerders2 6y ago
  It's only .o2 incheas! LOL. Needs to be zero.
• semerda 6y ago
  Is this in response to FlexGate? https://www.macrumors.com/2020/05/08/flexgate-class-action-lawsuit/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/05/08/flexgate-class-action-l...
• cguess 6y ago
  If a hacker can modify the firmware on your Macbook to somehow turn on a hardwired camera without turning on the LED you're so beyond screwed it's not worth mentioning. This means they already have full sudo access to your entire entire machine, all encryption keys, everything.
• novia 6y ago
  low tech solution: use a post-it note as a camera cover.
• bloody-crow 6y ago
  This statement has a number of issues. First, you have to trust Apple that the indicator _really_ can't be disabled. You also have to trust that there isn't a vulnerability Apple is not aware about that could allow rolling the camera without the light coming on. This has happened in the past [0] and there are known Apple products that are vulnerable, yet the statement never mentions this making you believe it's impossible. Second, once the camera light is on, the data has already been captured. The light just told you about it, not prevented it. The plastic cover or a piece of tape does prevent it even if your laptop security is compromised. Third, in a world where remote conferences are more and more common, more and more software doesn't do a very good job at letting you know when it's about to enable your camera. You might click on a link to an all hands conference to listen in while you're changing only to have the software helpfully enable the camera and broadcast you for the rest of the company. I believe in big conferences organizer may sometimes control other ppl's camera as well. You can totally imagine a scenario when the organizer misclicks and enables the camera for the wrong person instead of a scheduled presenter. Camera covers solve all of those problems. [0]: https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569
  • hunter-gatherer 6y ago
    > First, you have to trust Apple that the indicator _really_ can't be disabled. I'm not disagreeing with your other points nor am I saying that this isn't the case nor am I a fan of any apple products... However designed circuits to implement such functionality is quite common. [0]; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits
    • m00x 6y ago
      If the circuit turns on when the camera is on, how does it have always-on True-Tone? Is it a different sensor or is Apple just full of shit?
      • nardi 6y ago
        Different sensor.
• qserasera 6y ago
  I bet they're going to engineer it harder to cover your camera. I hope we can make a DIY laptop community. Apple should not intentionally create a false sense security for its users.
• werstardust 6y ago
  Apple doesn't get it. The reason for a camera cover is to prevent snooping EVEN WHEN the camera is on.
• emsign 6y ago
  If a piece of tape acts like a bevel and cracks the display, use a sharpie instead. Problem solved.
• dredmorbius 6y ago
  You're Holding It Wrong 2.0
• flattone 6y ago
  If they would sell a laptop without a camera. I have never needed a camera on a laptop. Anyway EFF camera stickers work GREAT https://supporters.eff.org/shop/stickers https://supporters.eff.org/shop/stickers
• creativeCak3 6y ago
  It’s very sad that some users may associate Apple==Security. NO piece of software is secured on this planet. If it’s programmable(even through Assembly), then a programmer can break through it. I will cover my webcam physically, even if I am running linux, thank you very much.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• rudolph9 6y ago
  Why don’t iPhones have a camera light?
• godfrzero 6y ago
  > If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances. Yep, this is exactly how the screen on my 16" cracked. I'd rather have a 0.5mm thicker laptop where I can actually cover up the camera.
• dreamcompiler 6y ago
  Hahaha. My $5k MBP is rocking a 1 cent square cm of black electrical tape which isn't going anywhere. If it leaves adhesive residue, I'll wipe it off with alcohol and replace the tape. My camera is only for stupid zoom meetings, and if I ruin it I get to tell my colleagues my camera is broken. That's a feature, not a bug.
• ConcernedCoder 6y ago
  lol... nice try apple... nice try...
• aaronmdjones 6y ago
  I have something very similar to these [1] (the original item is no longer listed) on my laptop's webcam and my smartphone's front-facing camera. They've served me very well, and the former has saved me from a potentially-embarrassing conference-call-style disaster. I really don't get Apple's statement here. [1] https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114090118649 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114090118649
• mistersquid 6y ago
  There are good reasons to want a camera cover that physically blocks the camera from being used that are not addressed by an indicator light (especially prevention versus disclosing). But my guess is Apple recommends that users not block the camera because Face ID will someday make it to macOS.
  • dschuetz 6y ago
    Shame. I guess Apple either better includes a physical cover soon, or bury their always-on FaceID plans.
• davesque 6y ago
  It's a bit surprising to me that this is trending so much. Apple has been making functionality compromises for years at the expense of hackers and power users of all kinds. Is it really so shocking that MacBooks aren't compatible with camera covers?
  • dschuetz 6y ago
    No, it's shocking that Apple doesn't seem to understand that their assurances do not even remotely touch what users of physical cover have in mind. A LED showing that the webcam is active means that it's too late. It doesn't matter what app is using the webcam, with permissions or not. The users apparently want to prevent the webcam to make any clear pictures. Apple just doesn't seem to get it. Instead Apple say, it's impossible for apps to turn the webcam on without permission. Ever heard of "trustworthy" apps being compromised? I have. Apple compromises at the wrong issues. The issue is trending because of that.
    • davesque 6y ago
      Right and I don't disagree with any of what you said. I'm just asking, why is this surprising to anyone? Why are people suddenly acting like they care when this has been open and obvious for a long time?
• proc0 6y ago
  The first thing that was said in my InfoSec 101 class was that the best security is at the hardware level. If you really want to secure something, keep in inside a room with a lock, or chain it. Software will never be guaranteed security, and not having a camera cover is asking for something to go wrong, whether it's during a meeting or someone hacking into it.
• ericls 6y ago
  To know or to trust? I would always choose to know if I can afford.
• muzani 6y ago
  This seems like a massive UX issue in that a lot of people want it closed and that they're putting the light sensor close to it. In the future, they should put a lid over it. People seem to be more worried about accidentally opening FB live or Zoom rather than hacking.
• tomcooks 6y ago
  The tones used in this article sound very patronising. Maybe it's the matter of privacy being addressed that gives these "advices" a creepy tone. I'm glad other laptops have more tolerance for accessories that are a couple of mm thick.
  • mrunkel 6y ago
    Tip: while reading any tone you feel is entirely generated by you. I just read it and I didn’t get any patronizing or creepy tones.
• ahupp 6y ago
  My Lenovo X1 has a physical slider that covers the camera. I trust this a lot more than an LED.
• freakynit 6y ago
  I'd rather take the risk of damaging my display. Thank You.
  • system2 6y ago
    Why not electric tape?
    • teruakohatu 6y ago
      Not the OP but electrical tape is a lot thicker than 0.1mm. Any branded electrical tape ranges from 0.15mm to 0.25mm or more for speciality tapes.
• hansdieter1337 6y ago
  Why doesn’t Apple sell mechanical camera covers for a tremendous amount of money!
• beshrkayali 6y ago
  Apple should probably make a physical camera cover. I have it on my Thinkpad X1 carbon and I love it. What's missing is physical microphone and wifi switches, I don't know if there's a modern machine that has all three.
  • mpartel 6y ago
    https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ ?
• vms20591 6y ago
  Even if we trust that without the LED being on, the camera is never on, it does actually provide little consolation. Unless Apple has covered every single scenario, where any program trying to access the camera, can't do so without the user intervention. People accidentally leave their laptop lids open, and what if the app they trusted earlier isn't so anymore and turns on the camera, streaming the content before it. Unless Apple has a solution to prevent all these, they shouldn't be giving such advise.
• runjake 6y ago
  I use a small square of 3M yellow sticky sharpie over with black. That’s what I do for my work MacBook. At this point, with all the reported QA problems and my own QA problems with my work MBP, I am completely disinterested in acquiring any Apple notebooks — especially at their prices. I babied my 2 year old work MBP and it’s had the keyboard go bad, the video ribbon go bad, and the batteries expanded enough they popped the case. I babied this thing. I was careful with it, did all the best practice. The first failures were just out of warranty and Apple wouldn’t cover it. In the old days, I always could trust that Apple would make it right. But those days are long gone. And so is my loyalty.
• metafunctor 6y ago
  I use web-based teleconferencing almost exclusively. Safari asks every time for permission to use the camera. It would, of course, be better if camera access could be configured to require a Touch ID every time, controlled in T2 obviously. I would trust that.
• mads 6y ago
  Most of the time, I have an external monitor connected to the laptop (with the laptop still open) and I usually wont notice if the camera is on just by looking at the LED.
• anonytrary 6y ago
  Electrical tape with a flap so you can move it back and forth works extremely well.
• ajuc 6y ago
  Why would you ever use an apple computer with all their hardware problems, high prices and anticompetitive practices? I never understood that.
• radicalbyte 6y ago
  This is just an engineering issue. Build a camera cover which acts as a latch when you close your laptop. Problem solved.
• knolax 6y ago
  If the display is so fragile that a little piece of tape or plastic can harm it, then maybe they should rethink their product design.
• Venkatesh10 6y ago
  Just sticking a tape over the camera works really well
• stunt 6y ago
  I have two monitors connected to my laptop. There is a good chance that I will not even notice the LED for first few minutes. I’m using a thin cover. But I used to cover it with a folded piece of paper before finding this cover.
• anonymousiam 6y ago
  https://www.inc.com/john-brandon/why-the-movie-snowden-will-make-you-put-a-piece-of-tape-on-your-webcam.html https://www.inc.com/john-brandon/why-the-movie-snowden-will-...
• nick-sf 6y ago
  This could be mitigated simply by adding other pads/spacers with the same thickness around the screen bezel. This would reduce cracking chances, though maybe pressure right in the center top-bottom and left-right could crack the screen due to the gap between the screen and keyboard.
• kebman 6y ago
  Yet another reason to buy something better than a MacBook. :) Don't get me wrong, I used to love Macs. But they really started screwing their own prosumers, ohhh, back in 2011 when they made Final Cut Pro X into a "for dummies" application, rather than the professional tool it used to be (this is a discussion all on its own btw, and while it's not clear cut, the change wasn't welcome at the time). From then on things have mostly gone down hill. That year marks a clear change in their philosophy, from prosumer-made products and to a far more consumer and fad-based focus as a "luxury" brand. Except the whole premise for buying Apple products used to be that they were better for professional production environments. I really hope they'll get back to this tried and proven mode, instead of what they're doing now.
  • fastball 6y ago
    What notebook is better than the new 16" MBP?
• gpvos 6y ago
  Having a mechanically guaranteed way to cover your webcam is a must. Apple should just add a built-in mechanical switch. If that makes their laptop a millimeter thicker then boo hoo.
• ivanhoe 6y ago
  Apple is completely missing the point. Primary reason to cover cameras is to avoid anything being recorded by accident, not just to stop hackers RATing you. Now with everyone working remote this has become even more important as it's super easy to get into the video conference with wrong settings and end up in an embarrassing situation. Activity LED doesn't help with this, when you see it damage is already done and Youtube is full of zoom bloopers to prove this. Of course, preventing hackers accessing your camera is just an extra feature. So I'll keep my cover on regardless what Apple says. I use just a piece of regular paper so it's not entirely blocking the light, light sensors work just fine, and also it's very thin so laptop shuts down normally without any problems.
• Existenceblinks 6y ago
  Why is physical shutter not a standard? wait.. I don't trust hardware kill switch either; anything is not visible right in front of my eyes. Mass product don't expect normal people to technically know about circuit design. How hard it is for a big tech company whose hardware suppose to be best in the market, to design a built-in thin cover .. like camera shutter that's invented very first days camera invented. ps; by shutter, I don't mean an actual light collector functionality although .. it's hard to argue that. For macbook mic, I use hot glue to seal it. It's pretty good at blocking sound wave (I tested it).
• scoot_718 6y ago
  I just remove the camera entirely. Why do laptops come with them again?
• harha 6y ago
  It looks like Apples quest for even slicker devices has taken its next toll, both the MacBook retina and the original touchbar work fine with a cover. The product line up is in a weird limbo between professional and luxury and it’s difficult to move away given the alternatives (I have Linux and Windows on my workstation, one needs a lot of attention to move beyond 95% working and the documentation just isn’t always good, the other is very annoying with ads and all sorts of stuff that is integrated and the lack of consistency) even though I miss my old thinkpad and appreciate how they think of business features like thinkshutter.
• andy_ppp 6y ago
  I love how everyone worries about their computer camera when there is no light for the camera and facial recognition hardware on the front of your phone...
• mytailorisrich 6y ago
  Huawei laptops have the camera fitted in a dummy key on the keyboard. You have to push the key for the camera to pop up. This solves the issue of privacy nicely and frees space around the screen. The slight downside is that the camera is obviously lower.
• cryptica 6y ago
  Also make sure you don't turn off your microphone, that could damage it too. The microphone needs regular electricity flow or else it may become decalibrated.
• sahoo 6y ago
  You don't put a cover on your cellphone camera, why do on the laptop. I take the cellphone to the shower or the loo, laptop never.
• karaterobot 6y ago
  We're surrounded by tiny, meaningless LEDs. I've even tried to avoid them, but right now I can see three of them from where I'm sitting, and if I turn my head away from the corner where my computer desk is positioned, I can see three more (one of them, on an electric toothbrush, is blinking to tell me it's fully charged...). Sometimes a light being on mean "everything's okay, don't even worry about me" but sometimes LEDs being on means "pay attention, this is important!", and sometimes LEDs being on means "LEDs are so cheap, we threw one on this device for no reason". Second, there is no shared 'vocabulary' of lighting that tells you consistently what a light being on means (consider how in this case, Apple wants us to consider a green light to be a warning indicator). Given this, I'm not at all convinced that a light being on would be enough to warn most people that they're being spied on, or that most people would even notice another small LED being on in the first place. Consider changing this UX!
• Iolaum 6y ago
  Genuine question. Why are people worrying so much about the camera but none talks about the microphone? Whenever I think about it, the microphone is able to gather far more harmful information than the camera about what I m doing close to my laptop.
• mavsman 6y ago
  Camera covers most cost less than a dollar. Why doesn't Apple just build a physical one into their laptops? I wonder what they could come up with for microphones as well.
  • jankiehodgpodge 6y ago
    Because it would undermine trust in their system.
• catoc 6y ago
  No amount of tech or trust beats a black sticky tape. Thin enough to not damage anything; Removed and re-applied in a second without leaving residu; Zero discussion whether it will work or not
• brailsafe 6y ago
  Seems like most/all ppl in this thread are also missing the bit where MacBooks are just too thin; so much so, that it's hard to even protect the fragile coating on the screen from damage without something as thin as printer paper in between it and the keyboard. It's hard for me to remember to put that piece of paper in there every time, but if I forget, I risk oils from the keyboard getting on the screen and permanently erodong the anti-reflective coating.
• collinmanderson 6y ago
  It would be nice if I could acknowledge missed phone calls on my Mac without turning my camera on. I believe it’s only possible with the FaceTime app, which turns the camera on when opening the app.
  • t31 6y ago
    Yep, and keeps it on, my housemate has Facetime open all the time and no camera cover, every time I walk by his laptop the camera light is on, defeating the point of it if it's always on?
• abbadadda 6y ago
  > Designed to protect your privacy, Mac notebooks have a camera indicator light to let you know when the camera is on. LOL
• sfgweilr4f 6y ago
  I'll put tape over the camera. Apple can't reasonably provide guarantees about the camera. I have reasonable doubt they can't provide privacy around that camera with the current designs. This is true even if the indicator light only powers on when the camera is on. That is not enough guarantee. This is also true even if the indicator stays on for several seconds after the camera was in use. I might not notice that indicator so there is no guarantee from that either. Even with hardware keys, encryption and everything else, none of it beats a cover over the camera. A sliding or moving physical cover always wins. That is the guarantee. But Apple will not allow or tolerate that. Because they emphasize design over function. So, close your device with a cover over the camera with a thin piece of tape. Its up to Apple to make that possible without damage. Any other answer is interesting but not a guarantee. There is always some caveat to the suggestions. But an actual sliding or otherwise physical cover always wins. Perhaps we might even address the microphone issue...
• Ice_cream_suit 6y ago
  The NSA is reputed to have malware that can activate certain laptop cameras, while keeping the indicator light off.
• needle0 6y ago
  The perfect opportunity for a hardware entrepreneur to start selling 0.1mm ultrathin camera covers.
• PeterStuer 6y ago
  Dear Apple Support, I am fully confident I can manage a physical shutter in front of my camera. I am absolutely way less confident that I can manage avoiding a myriad of dark patterned traps and mazes to have each app configured exactly right so as to not have given it permission to turn on my camera at inconvenient times. Yes, I do sometimes participate in conference video calls with only my dress shirt on over my short sweatpants, and that shutter gives me the confidence that my co-callers need not be exposed to my state of partial underdressing at inappropriate times. Call me Luddite, but your little green light isn't doing that for me.
• celeritascelery 6y ago
  Unless the hardware for the camera is open-source, there is no way to be confident that mechanism actually works.
• ajani 6y ago
  This is moot. I cover it because some apps turn it on, on an action I didn’t quite expect will start the camera. If there were an explicit confirmation asking me each time if I really wanted to allow camera access (like a delete file confirmation), I might consider not using a cover. And you can have a ‘don’t ask me again’ for this app option.
• libra1 6y ago
  I've been using a cover on my 2013 Macbook Pro for almost three years now. No issues so far.
• IndySun 6y ago
  Apple were boastful of the 'precise engineering', in a different way, of the iPads warping frame, I see to remember... You are as full of crap, Apple, as you are to be admired.
• vincnetas 6y ago
  Does mackbook has dedicated light sensor somewhere near camera, or the same camera is used to detect ambient light and adjust color temperature and screen brightness.
• jlj 6y ago
  Just use tape?
• vivekweb2013 6y ago
  I wouldn't trust the indicator light, its not a mechanical switch, its something programmed that means - you know what I mean. I would prefer covering with a tape, I'm doing it for a long and it didn't damaged anything.
• rudewater 6y ago
  So, their suggestion is to "Make sure the camera cover is not thicker than an average piece of printer paper." and also "Avoid using a camera cover that leaves adhesive residue."? Good luck finding a cover that is thinner than a piece of paper and is also not tape.
• HeavyStorm 6y ago
  Been saying that to my girlfriend for a while.
• anotherNae 6y ago
  So much easier to do a `modprobe -r uvcvideo` on a Linux machine to completely disable the camera when not required
• martyvis 6y ago
  I'm wondering whether all these paranoid engineers have poked a screwdriver through their speakers? (Every kid in sure has used a speaker as a mic)
• perryizgr8 6y ago
  Why don't they provide a physical cover for the camera. My HP laptop has a nice slide cover, in addition to the LED. It great for peace of mind.