7 ms·
More than 100k people in Japan are now aged 100 or older
- deleted 16d ago[deleted]
- ashleyn 16d agoHow common is pension fraud in Japan?
- kevin_thibedeau 16d agoIt's common enough that the Japanese government has been tracking down long dead "centenarians" to root it out. Also, according to Saul Newman [1], many of the centenarians claimed for Japan actually died 80+ years ago in the war and were never recorded as dead when everyone else in their family died. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZE5ml7a6rE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZE5ml7a6rE
- EagleEdge 16d agoWe have travelled for about a month in Japan last year. They work under constant stress, lots of commute on public transit. I also did not feel their food was that healthy, lots of fried food and sweets. But the portion is small compared to what we would normally eat in a meal.
- anyfoo 16d agoDid you actually visit Japanese families, or is that assessment based on what you saw in convenience stores and similar? "Convenience" food and western style food has somewhat increased, but on average Japanese cuisine is very healthy. I also agree on the stressful work part, but don't quite understand what you mean with "lots of commute on public transit". If you mean the Tokyo-style rush hour traffic where people are literally shoved into the train car, of course that's stressful. But at any other time apart from that, Japan's public transit is enormously soothing and stress-free, both because of culture and transit technology.
- EagleEdge 16d agoDay in day out, everyday in public transit, just sheer noise would not add any lifetime. We stayed at our Japanese friend’s house so we did have exposure to their everyday life. The point I want to make is that many things contribute to a long life, and of course Japanese people are doing most of those things right, regardless of what that might be. I remember watching a documentary about Okinawa people. One thing they mentioned was laughter.
- anyfoo 16d agoI grew up in Germany. For the past 13 years, I've lived in the US. Oh, how I wish I could go back to the "day in day out, everyday in public transit" instead of this car hell. In Germany, just like in Japan, I didn't feel that it was noisy at all. It was clean and quiet and soothing, I could just sit there and relax. Everyone takes public transport, across all income ranges. As a result, public life itself is more quiet and soothing, because you are not constantly surrounded by cars, even if just sitting outside a café. As for the family you stayed at, they must eat differently from the Japanese families I know personally. Studies agree: https://www.livescience.com/54133-japanese-diet-longer-life.html https://www.livescience.com/54133-japanese-diet-longer-life.... https://chns.cpc.unc.edu/resources/publications/bib/2884/ https://chns.cpc.unc.edu/resources/publications/bib/2884/
- tikotus 16d agoJapanese public transport is insanely quiet! No talking, no phones ringing... It's my happy place.
- deleted 16d ago[deleted]
- autoexec 16d agoYeah, I'd agree. I think that the Japan's public transportation, even in Tokyo, wasn't at all stressful. Maybe I'd feel differently if I had to be shoved in, but that was easy enough to avoid and even at the times when it was a little crowded for my tastes, it was still a great experience.
- geraneum 16d agoI don’t get the bit about public transport. Do you mean it’s unhealthy because public transport is stressful?
- circularfoyers 16d agoSurely the exercise that comes with using public transport outweighs that. I feel like being able to zone out and not having to focus on driving, is more relaxing to me.
- cdelsolar 16d agoYup, public transit over driving for me any day. I grew up in NYC which has a relatively nasty public transit system too.
- SketchySeaBeast 16d agoIf we're talking about the extremely elderly, it seems better for them to be taking public transport than driving.
- zugi 16d agoThe extremely elderly are staying at home or a nursing home, and occasionally and delicately transported by car. But lots of walking in their less elderly days may partially explain their longevity.
- voiceeh 16d agoWhich doesn't track. Public transport in Japan is peaceful. I feel more relaxed on a Train in Japan than a car or Train in Canada.
- spike021 16d agoWhat exactly did you eat the entire time? tonkatsu and karaage? there's plenty of great home style food that isn't fried.. nikujaga, gyusuji, nikudofu, etc. Public transit there is pretty great. If anything the lack of escalators for some stations can be unmotivating to some people but on the other hand walking a lot of flights of stairs is healthy.
- socalgal2 16d agoPrivate transit there is pretty great Corrected that for you.
- spike021 16d agothis is HN not reddit. no need for snarky replies.
- socalgal2 16d agoIt's not a snarky reply. It's important IMO that people realize the consistently top rated transit system in the world is nearly all private. Otherwise, they push for public transit, not realizing they are asking for something different.
- spike021 16d agoExcept that is not the definition of "public transportation" being used in this context; OP is clearly referring to transportation that the public uses to commute. They're hardly referring to its ownership.
- dzink 16d ago“A government audit of family registries in Japan in 2010 uncovered more than 230,000 people listed as being aged 100 or older who were unaccounted for, some having died decades previously. The miscounting was attributed to patchy record-keeping and suspicions that some families may have tried to hide the deaths of elderly relatives in order to claim their pensions“ Thus they need to redo the audit in 2026.
- anyfoo 16d agoI was also thinking about that, but that miscounting story is so old, notable, and well-known by now, that it's basically popular knowledge around the world. So I hope that the BBC, but especially also the Japanese government that the BBC was reporting on, are aware of that issue and have, by now, accounted for it.
- groundzeros2015 16d ago[flagged]
- anyfoo 16d agoUnlikely, as the quote about >230k misattributed people comes from the article itself. So even without taking into account that I generally expect more from the BBC, the author of this article seems to be at least aware of the fact. Be it as it may, and even if that's an AI-generated article (which I don't think so), the point is that the article is reporting on the Japanese government: Japanese authorities have called the trend an "existential crisis" with Prime Minister Sanae Takichi describing the decline as a "quiet emergency". And my hope that they have taken that past mistake into account seems to have some ground, given that the 100k total number that the current figures cite is by itself well below the then-figure of 230k misattributions.
- groundzeros2015 16d agoI guess we can’t discuss this because my comment was removed to protect the BBC.
- briandw 16d agoThe secret to extreme long life is bad record keeping.
- hn_throwaway_99 16d agoYeah, I agree that the "Blue Zone" theory is mostly explained by bad record keeping. Okinawa is one of the poorest areas of Japan, but was deemed a Blue Zone, despite that wealth is nearly always positively correlated with longevity within similar cultures. Low and behold Okinawa had shitty record keeping and tons of incentives for relatives to commit pension fraud.
- dnautics 16d agoThis is dumb. If you go to any Japanese graveyard in Hawaii (where family graves have prefecture of origin) you will find the preponderance of centenarians are from okinawan families. There is no incentive for pension fraud for someone born in the us (or emigrated to the us in their younger years) and died in the us in the 1980s-> early 20XXs
- crooked-v 16d agoSure, but there would have still been the same poor record keeping around birth dates and the same incentives for people in a poor area 60 years ago to enter the workforce early.
- dnautics 16d agoBad record keeping in Hawaii in 1900-1910++? Bad record keeping and misregistering a 8 year old as 18 upon immigration to the territory of Hawaii? What are you proposing here? I'm looking at a photograph I have with a 1915-2015 and in same frame an immediately adjacent plot for a distinct family which has 1913-2015, both of these deceased almost certainly born in the territory of Hawaii (one site has two 1880s born -- that's probably the immigrants). Supposing there were bad records and incentives to fudge that persisted into the territory of Hawaii, why would those incentives only exist for Okinawan immigrants in Japan versus immigrants from any other prefecture, including poor ones like those in the south of Honshu or Kyushu!?
- shoobiedoo 16d agoThis article calls it a "quiet emergency" but even as a foreigner living in Japan there are alarm bells everywhere. And the government buying 150 F35's is just a slap in the face when there's a massive chunk of the population that is, very quickly, going to need extra care. I looked into becoming a care aid myself as I'm tired of office culture in Japan and have some experience in that field. I was shocked to see that they start at less than 10USD, and working your way up takes years, decades even. Continuing to kick this can down the road is going to be an absolute disaster.
- PorciiVorbesc 16d ago>And the government buying 150 F35's is just a slap in the face when there's a massive chunk of the population that is, very quickly, going to need extra care. I'm torn on this issue. I think the elderly and people in general should get a decent life, but on the opposite side we have Europe that's investing massively more in making its boomers richer and more comfortable than anyone in human history has ever been(average pension in France is now higher than the average salary), rather than investing that money in ensuring opportunities and prosperity of future generations, who are facing economic stagnation/degrowth and are forced to foot the bill for this elderly spending, with the guarantee the pyramid scheme they're funding will fail them when their turn comes to benefit from it. So perhaps Japan sees the defense capability those 150 F-35's bring to its future national security more valuable than keeping the elderly alive for a few more years. Yeah, it sounds harsh when you look at people like that, but taking care of people takes resources(money), and money is finite, so all these decisions are a game theory trolley problem, where you have to choose whose lives a country should prioritize the most: the past generations, or the future generations. Historically in the history of nations would be willing to sacrifice the elderly to prioritize the survival and growth of its future generations, that was the social contract of the tribe, that is until the western boomers came and decided they deserve to fuck the future of their nation if they can get wealthier and feel good till the end. I'm not saying there's one correct solution here, because I don't have it. I'm saying tough decisions have to be made from which there will be winners and losers, so a nation should choose the winners carefully, if it wishes to have a future.
- 16d ago
- SMAAART 16d agoThe blue zone.
- xnx 16d agoObligatory note about most centenarians not having verifiable birth records.
- bhhaskin 16d agoJapan is quite a bit different in that regard since they have family registries. Their issue tends to be death records.
- sottol 16d agoSemi-related, but I did recently wonder if China's real-estate bust might serve as a strong fertility support measure / incidental pronatalist policy. Tier-3 and tier-4 cities supposedly saw 30-50% property value declines, setting them back more than two decades. If real estate was really holding back families, as is often stipulated, this might reverse that. Otoh, rural Japan has lots of cheap or even free real estate but it doesn't seem to support fertility rates at all.
- autoexec 16d agoI think high housing prices can impact people's decision about when/if they start a family, but other factors do as well. Rural Japan might be inexpensive, but raising a family there can be less attractive for a lot of other reasons.
- thatfrenchguy 16d agoReal estate is not the only reason why folks have less children, especially in cultures where people don’t mind having less space. Kids are expensive for other reasons in china
- Waterluvian 16d agoThe other reason is car seats. I can’t fit more than two and I’ll be damned if I trade in for a minivan!
- justsomehnguy 16d ago> If real estate was really holding back families, as is often stipulated, this might reverse that. It doesn't matter how much the property is valued if your work is somewhere else.
- tonyhart7 16d agobecause there is no work in rural area, why you not asking the same question why younger people move to city at their 20s ??
- 16d ago
- jan_m_savage 16d agoThe more salient point is why is this happening. That is to say, it also mean less and less younger people, as 'modernity' induces fewer marriages and fewer children.
- bigyabai 16d agoIt's pretty easy to follow if you know which neoliberal polity forced Japan to abandon traditionalism.
- jan_m_savage 16d agoyep. That, and also the porn.
- swingandamiss 16d ago[flagged]
- phyzome 16d agoWild that the article goes on about the percentage of centenarians, then just has this brief note about how the data are completely unreliable, and never squares the two sets of statements.
- kibwen 16d agoThe story is about the fact that the Japanese government is reporting these figures, and what the Japanese government has tried to do and believes that it still needs to do in response to its own figures. That it then goes on to cast doubt on the figures reflects on the Japanese government, not the BBC reporters.
- juiceland 16d agoProbably not. Welfare fraud is really common and the government hasn’t really done much to combat it. This article makes it sound like this is clerical error driven but the stories in the news say otherwise.
- tonyhart7 16d ago"Residents aged 65 and older currently make up around 30% of the population and are expected to make up nearly 40% by 2070." that is insane, having half of population is aging grandma is absolutely mind blowing
- erkt 16d agoIsn’t this often attributed to social security fraud? The family member dies, but the checks keep getting cashed.
- delichon 16d agocentenarians per 10,000 Japan 8.8 France 6.3 Italy 3.6 Canada 3.2 US 3.0 UK 2.4 Germany 2.2 Russia 0.9 China 0.3 India 0.2 What are Japan and France doing so much better?
- packetlost 16d agoSmoking
- zugi 16d ago> What are Japan and France doing so much better? I think the question misunderstands the data. Or more specifically, a big part of the answer is "not having kids." Think about the denominator.
- thenthenthen 16d agoAnd why is Japan so obsessed with french things?
- cyberpunk 16d agoParis Syndrome’s wikipedia article [0] has some causal clues. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
- thenthenthen 16d agoThanks for a new puzzle piece!
- imachine1980_ 16d agoI have two hypotheses. First, France already had negative demographic trends during the Napoleonic era. That might help explain why Macron’s call for a “demographic rearmament” is not necessarily taboo today. France started experiencing smaller family sizes quite a long time ago, so the current demographic numbers are partly a reflection of past trends rather than the situation today. In a few years, Italy will probably face an even worse situation. Second, in some countries, the very high number of elderly people may partly be the result of inaccurate population records. Some countries have a combination of incentives for elderly people and demographic records that were badly damaged during WWII. This may have made it relatively easy for someone to claim that they were, for example, their grandmother and receive benefits. Decades later, some of these people are supposedly over 100 years old. There is even an Ig Nobel Prize associated with research into this phenomenon.
- deleted 16d ago[deleted]
- zugi 16d agoYears ago people warned that we had to limit the population to save the planet. Now we're naturally reducing population growth, and people warn of disaster. Gradually decreasing populations means that overall, fewer workers have to support more non-workers. We've had decades of productivity growth, with more to come if we're not stupid, making that extremely feasible.
- deleted 16d ago[deleted]
- jimbokun 16d agoBut that productivity goes more and more to capital instead of labor, making it much less feasible.
- azernik 16d agoThe key word is gradual. Population decline in Japan may be faster than is economically manageable, depending on whose projections you read.
- xeonmc 16d ago"We need to make fewer kids." "Wait, not like that."
- stefap2 16d ago88% are women.
- dvrp 16d agoIn America too!
- alun 16d agoJapan has a 55% top marginal inheritance tax rate. I wonder how many of these centenarians aren't actually alive and their just deaths haven't been reported so that the family can avoid paying that.
- jocelyner 14d ago[dead]