13 ms·
Lawmakers added $1 to car insurance policies. That money paid for Flock cameras
- DivingForGold 1mo agoSnooping Bastards !
- k310 1mo agoTexas > In 2023, the Texas Legislature unanimously passed a law raising auto insurance costs for Texans by $1 to combat rampant catalytic converter theft. > The Motor Vehicle Crime Prevention Authority, led by a board mostly appointed by Gov. Greg Abbott, has turned the $1 fee hike into at least 3,200 Flock cameras. More coming. Meanwhile, secure your EV!!! Batteries will be next!!!
- SoftTalker 1mo agoIn Texas I'm surprised it's not legal to shoot a catalytic converter thief if caught in the act. That's what they used to do for cattle rustlers.
- ceejayoz 1mo agohttps://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/stand-your-ground https://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws/stand-your-ground links to https://www.uslawshield.com/defend-property-texas/ https://www.uslawshield.com/defend-property-texas/ > Texas law allows you to use deadly force to protect property if you would be justified in using force, and you reasonably believe it is immediately necessary to prevent the imminent commission of specific enumerated property crimes. These are arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime. I'd think that'd qualify. https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/?tab=1&code=PE&chapter=PE.9&artSec=#D https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/?tab=1&code=PE&chapter=PE... > Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property: > (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and > (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: > (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and > (3) he reasonably believes that: > (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
- sokoloff 1mo agoI can’t see a catalytic converter theft on a car parked on the street as burglary. Parked in a (private) garage? Yes, burglary. Parked on the street? No. So, daytime theft of a converter from a car parked outside wouldn’t qualify I don’t think.
- thaumasiotes 1mo agoIf you sleep in the car it will qualify no matter where you're parked. This also appears to be true of an RV or any vehicle that clearly accommodates sleeping. For reference: "Burglary" under the Texas penal code is defined by entering a habitation or any portion of a building that is not open to the public, either with the intent to commit a crime, or when followed by the actual commission of, or the attempt to commit, a crime. "Robbery" is theft in which the thief causes an injury to someone else. (Or intentionally threatens to do so.) "Theft" is what it sounds like. Most notably burglary need not include any element of theft. I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in. On topic for this particular comment, "habitation" is specifically defined to include vehicles "adapted for the overnight accommodation of persons".
- thejazzman 1mo ago> Private Domicile, BITCH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdaQcq4w88 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdaQcq4w88
- logicchains 1mo ago>I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in. They're not at all fully interchangeable, just many Americans have a poor grasp of the English language.
- thaumasiotes 1mo agoThe language is solely defined by what people think it means. The terms are in fact fully interchangeable. If you'd like it packaged in something that looks authoritative, you might consider the following definitions from Merriam-Webster: burgle: to commit robbery rob: to take away as loot : steal thieve: steal, rob
- dghlsakjg 1mo agoYou can use force in Texas to stop property crime. Fire away, I guess.
- hopelessluca 1mo agoMy comment may sound cliché, but I genuinely believe this, no material possession is worth more than a human life. A catalytic converter can be replaced, a life cannot.
- Geonode 1mo agoThe thief shouldn't value something more than his life then.
- rationalist 1mo agoMore specifically: The thief valued the gain of the crime more than the risk of the crime.
- bryanlarsen 1mo agoThat's not cliché; Texas is the only state that applies stand-your-ground to crimes against property alone.
- giardini 1mo agobryanlarsen says "Texas is the only state that applies stand-your-ground to crimes against property alone." Not true.
- bryanlarsen 1mo agoNot true in which direction? If another state allows it, which one? Lots of states apply stand-your-ground against robbery, but robbery is a threat to a person, not just property.
- GaryBluto 1mo agoNobody is forcing people to risk their lives to infringe on other people's rights. Whenever I see a news article about a criminal killed in the act, I never think "I wish they were alive.", I think "I wish they never went down that path in the first place that lead to that scenario."
- exabrial 1mo agoI would love to live in a world where thieves feared for their lives.
- cosmicgadget 1mo agoSounds like Texas is the place for you.
- ultrarunner 1mo agoNo, I think their civil forfeiture rates are quite a bit higher than average. Property taxes too. Quite a bit of fearless thievery going on in Texas.
- cosmicgadget 1mo agoCivil forfeiture, sure but the property taxes are presumably to offset the lack of income tax, neither of which is thievery outside of a Zerohedge comment section.
- giardini 1mo agoYeah, but who know how many thieves end up dead. And regardless of state, there's always revenge - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071402/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071402/
- 3eb7988a1663 1mo agoYet I believe crime still happens in Texas.
- jrflowers 1mo agoYou want thieves to be armed?
- AlexandrB 1mo agoThey frequently already are. Even here in Canada[1] where any kind of "carry" is generally not allowed. Shockingly, thieves often don't care about gun laws though. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-cash-reward-fairview-mall-robbery-shooting-9.7178567 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-cash-r...
- zippyman55 1mo agohttps://media.makeameme.org/created/ai-is-going-28c40ae773.png https://media.makeameme.org/created/ai-is-going-28c40ae773.p...
- guillybarres 1mo agoIf you do that in Texas they'll give you the key to the city. A man was once acquitted after using an AK-47 to shoot an escort who was being driven away after robbing him of $150: https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/06/07/texas-prostitutes-jilted-killer-acquitted-was-trying-to-retrieve-stolen-property-says-jury/ https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/06/07/texas-prostitutes-jil....
- tehwebguy 1mo agoWhat an insane trade off. Seems like a few bait cars and a couple of trackers would be plenty to figure out where the converters are getting fenced. Obviously there is a small number of buyers driving the entire catalytic theft economy.
- dfxm12 1mo agoIt's not about catalytic converters. It's about installing surveillance cameras and probably getting kick backs from flock.
- aussieguy1234 1mo agoEV batteries weigh hundreds of kilos. They typically require a mechanical workshop with a hoist to remove, not something your typical theif could easily steal on a street corner.
- seanmcdirmid 1mo agoStealing an EV battery is harder than stealing a cat.
- ihsw 1mo agoDid it reduce catalytic converter theft?
- baldeagle 1mo agoIt’s hard to say. As the economic got better, trade policies stabilized and the price of commodities and therefore the metals in a converter dropped in value. As the price of the metals went down, the thefts dropped nationally. Texas thefts seemed to have dropped inline with the national trend. Since the supply side issues are picking up again, the thefts are going up likewise.
- p_j_w 1mo agoIf what you say is true it doesn’t sound hard to say at all, it seems clear that the cameras didn’t reduce the thefts at all.
- floralhangnail 1mo agoI doubt it helped much directly. The nationwide ring that was dismantled recently was busted partially due to surveillance from a pole mounted camera though. The article title initially baited my rage, but I can plausibly see how LPRC's could be used to track catalytic converter thieves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932022_catalytic_converter_theft_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932022_catalytic_co...
- CoffeeOnWrite 1mo ago(a pole mounted camera for which a warrant had been obtained...)
- floralhangnail 1mo agoAs it should be.
- s1artibartfast 1mo agoJeez, in not normally cynical but the Japanese buyer faced no charges and this has bad optics: > Janice Ayala joined Dowa Metals & Mining America as their Chief Compliance Officer on March 3, 2023. During Ayala's 27-year tenure at the Department of Homeland Security, her most recent role before joining Dowa was as Director of Joint Task Force – Investigations. This agency oversaw the investigation into both DG Auto Parts and Dowa.
- wewro 1mo ago[dead]
- qwerpy 1mo agoStrange that someone else’s question “Did it reduce catalytic converter theft?”, directly relevant to the article, got downvoted to death. Not sure if we’re meant to have discussions here or just dutifully complain about topics that are fashionable to complain about.
- CamelCaseName 1mo agoI agree. I "revived" the comment by clicking on the timestamp ("33 minutes ago") and then clicking "vouch". I believe only users with a score of 200+ (points? karma?) can do so.
- kryogen1c 1mo agoBeen here 8 years, always wondered how comments died. I assumed it was algorithmic. TIL
- throwup238 1mo ago“[dead]” usually means algorithmic (could be as simple as an account registered via Tor that hasn’t been vouched for enough times). “[flagged][dead]” usually means it was flag-killed by users, except I’ve been noticing some AI written comments that are flagged instead of just dead, but they’re minutes old so unlikely to be user flagged.
- defrost 1mo agoThere's been an "AI comment detect" algo trialed and running for a month or so now. If you see any probably human comments tagged as Mr Roboto either vouch (weak indication, needs a few others to boost) or email hn@<this site> for dang / tom to cast a meat based eyeball over it.
- flexagoon 1mo agoDoes the account registration date also matter? I have 2110 points and I dont think I have the vouch button
- Waterluvian 1mo ago[flagged]
- chadgpt3 1mo agoIt's only taught them to keep a lower profile. Nobody's heard of Axon cameras, which are exactly like Flock, and getting installed in all the places that don't have Flock.
- jrexilius 1mo agoAlso Motorola, which is the big incumbent provider for LE systems (911, traffic cams, et al). Axon and Motorola re LOVING Flock taking all the ... flak.
- wahnfrieden 1mo agoThey’re in Toronto
- Waterluvian 1mo agoI’m searching for positive confirmation on this. I’ve heard rumours but non-Flock cameras keep getting flagged in the dataset.
- cromka 1mo agoWish you were right, but Palantir continues to gain adoption.
- DarmokTanagra 1mo agoFor a country that staged a revolution over a tea tax modern Americans sure seem to love having their rights trampled.
- bpodgursky 1mo agoOver a tea tax without representation. Very common to forget that part!
- troyvit 1mo agoYep. We asked for the nightmare we've brought upon ourselves
- DarmokTanagra 1mo agoDo 84 year olds on life support count as representation?
- johnnyanmac 1mo agoAccording to voting turnout: yes. That's the thing the 70+ year old voterbase learned from their peak working year. And yet there are still so many working class people who try to profess how "voting is useless, it doesn't change anything".
- DarmokTanagra 1mo agoIn American style representative democracy there certainly are places where voting is useless depending on your political affiliation.
- johnnyanmac 1mo agoUseless because everyone around you genuinely thinks differently from you? Or useless because said 70+ yo retired asset owners with more means to vote without more than the working class? Big difference in issue. You can't gerrymander a local bill so those kinds of votes are arguably more important than nationals. And you'd be surprised how big a difference a visit with a few dozen of your peers can make to a townhall meeting. That's something we seem to forget until our backs are truly to a wall.
- rayiner 1mo ago[flagged]
- fluidcruft 1mo agoBecause the users of the cameras have proven themselves untrustworthy.
- BirAdam 1mo agoThat and it’s against the spirit of the bill of rights.
- fluidcruft 1mo agoWell, the debate about the Bill of Rights itself was that the Constitution does not explicitly authorize those activities the first place (which is why they were amendments) and that listing any of them would imply that things not explicitly listed were somewhat endorsed. But I do know the Founders had no clue about computers, networks, cameras or license plates so they certthad no opinions about Flock cameras when they drafted the Bill of Rights. The Founders were all rich white men who were more than happy to dragnet to find unauthorized non-whites so who really knows what was in the spirit of the Bill of Rights.
- alex43578 1mo agoIf you remove the technology that they wouldn’t understand, the founders wouldn’t consider Flock to be some absurd concept: a sheriff asking a night watchman standing on the road into town “did you see George go by riding Samuel’s horse?” It’s a reasonable question, it’s a public road, and it doesn’t violate George’s privacy in his person, home, papers, or belongings.
- defrost 1mo agoHow about "Give me an instant heat map of all of George's movements the past year across all 13 states. With a particular focus on parking up near any and all brothels"
- mannanj 1mo agoSo to fight abuse and overreach by your leaders, you can: - give up your car/vehicle propery - let an LLC take ownership - reside in the privacy protections of LLC and corporation I don't think any successful case has happened yet where flock et al have pierced the corporate veil to get address information, nor dug into insurance records to find who the LLC-license plates belong to.
- carlob 1mo agoThe fact that corporations have more privacy rights than people is dystopian.
- parineum 1mo agoIt would be, you're right.
- toofy 1mo agoi don’t think that will help anything. surely flock and similar companies use facial recognition features? particularly at every stores parking lot that has these in it? and i’d be more shocked if the same stores weren’t already sharing their own inside cameras facial recognition directly with companies like flock already. and from what we’ve seen, these companies cameras are linked up with names from frequent shopper cards, cc data, what people buy, when they buy it, etc…
- StevePrefontain 1mo agoThese camera also monitor the ambient Bluetooth output of phones in cars that pass by to identify who exactly was in the car at the time. Don’t think the LLC will hide that unless your phone is also owned under an LLC
- mannanj 1mo agoI use my phone on airplane mode a lot, and also in a faraday cage bag. If you need directions, You can use use radio and pop in the directions then use just airplane mode and navigate and it will still place you via gps. If you want music use an AUX cable. If you want privacy give up some of your convenience. If you're refusing to give up your convenience, than you have chosen to give up your privacy. I find it distasteful with people who have given up project their failures onto everyone else who haven't given up.
- SwellJoe 1mo agoGiven how unpopular these cameras are, and how sloppy their security has been, I have come to assume there's boatloads of bribery happening. I can't come up with any other explanation for how willing police chiefs and city councilors and mayors are to get yelled at at city council meetings and how wantonly they're giving away the privacy of their constituents. I'm guessing that as scrutiny increases, we'll begin to hear about questionable, at best, sales tactics, if not outright bribery. Trips, sponsored speaking/training engagements that puts money in the pockets of cops and policymakers, etc. The whole thing stinks of it.
- bigbinary 1mo agoIt’s been proven (at least in the Minnesota flock conference) that flock pays politicians and police as private contractors and commissions them on any potential contracts they bring to flock
- FridgeSeal 1mo agoI’d say “wow, how have they gotten away with such blatant corruption?” But the US really seems to be full-sending into “mask off corruption meltdown”.
- diydsp 1mo agoI hate flock and similar violations... But I can't find any evidence of this claim. Who here can help lead to it?
- j45 1mo agoIf this is $1/year does that mean a certain number of cameras can be purchased each year?
- 1970-01-01 1mo agoThe only mistake Flock has made in terms of general acceptance is leaving them closed-access. The right way to build this empire is to set all the cameras as public. When they're wide-open and everybody is free to watch (along with ads, of course) not enough will care about the privacy because they want to track their cheating boyfriend, Amazon delivery, and get live traffic and weather info.
- ndsipa_pomu 1mo agoThat's a terrible idea as it'll be used/abused by stalkers etc. Women will never feel safe again.
- tencentshill 1mo agoStrange how that works
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- farcitizen 1mo agoIt's important that the cattle pays for its own imprisonment. For example a cow's milk gets sold to pay for the fence. If the farmer where to pay for the fence out of his own pocket, he would be creating negative karma, but if the cow pays for it, its a form of consent. You are are the Cow in this story.