46 ms·
IDF killed Gaza aid workers at point blank range in 2025 massacre: Report
Report [pdf]: https://content.forensic-architecture.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Israeli-Executions-of-Palestinian-Aid-Workers.pdf https://content.forensic-architecture.org/wp-content/uploads...
- tokai 8mo ago[flagged]
- moogly 8mo agoIndeed. Vouched but it won't last for long. As shablulman's inexplicably dead post says, this is very impressive work analyzing this unquestionable war crime.
- bondarchuk 8mo agoShablulman is shadowbanned.
- whatisthiseven 8mo agoCause their post sounds like some AI wrote it, and I guess everyone else noticed, too.
- SSLy 8mo agoshablu shouldn't sounds like a LLM (no, i didn't flag or downvote it)
- dang 8mo agohttps://hn.algolia.com/?query=flags%20off%20turn%20by%3Adang&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=flags%20off%20turn%20by%3Adang... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47141443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47141443
- Xmd5a 8mo ago[flagged]
- NurembergDfens 8mo ago[flagged]
- Qem 8mo agoFull report: https://content.forensic-architecture.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Israeli-Executions-of-Palestinian-Aid-Workers.pdf https://content.forensic-architecture.org/wp-content/uploads...
- apexalpha 8mo agoThis is very thorough. Thanks for the direct link. The case seems pretty clear, especially since the soldiers tried to hide all evidence.
- ignoramous 8mo ago> case seems pretty clear, especially since the soldiers tried Even if the 'soldiers' didn't, it wouldn't have mattered as the governing apparatus usually goes out of its way to protect their own militants. Ex A: Detainees executed, unarmed civilians killed in their sleep, a child, handcuffed and shot, all covered up by the chain of command – this is the testimony of more than 30 eyewitnesses, former members of UK Special Forces ... Panorama – Special Forces: I Saw War Crimes ... reported a series of cold-blooded murders by UK military personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan over a period of ten years, followed by years of official cover-up. https://www.counterfire.org/article/cold-blooded-murder-and-years-of-cover-up-uk-veterans-speak-out/ https://www.counterfire.org/article/cold-blooded-murder-and-...
- austin-cheney 8mo agoYes and no. It does matter because it illustrates both malicious intent and evidence of guilt, as in the guilty party knew they were perpetrating a criminal action. However, you are also correct, the IDF has little or no accountability for criminal behavior.
- ignoramous 8mo ago> the guilty party knew they were perpetrating a criminal action ... the IDF has little or no accountability for criminal behavior. May be the brazenness is why they make the best Tech CXOs? "The Israeli tank commander who has fought in one of the Syrian wars is the best engineering executive in the world. The tank commanders are operationally the best, and are extremely detail oriented. This is based on twenty years of experience — working with them and observing them." Eric Schmidt (Start-up Nation / Saul Singer et al / pg. 41)
- shablulman 8mo ago[flagged]
- tt_dev 8mo ago> The Israeli soldiers remained on the sandbank while firing continuously at the aid workers for four minutes. Damn…
- likiiio 8mo ago[flagged]
- metalman 8mo ago[flagged]
- epolanski 8mo agoThere's plenty of live footage of IDF forces targeting international aid workers and journalists. "fun" fact: more journalists died in the Gaza than in every conflict since ww2 combined.
- throwawaysleep 8mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- conartist6 8mo agoFrom where I sit nobody is questioning that the Israelis are supposed to be the good guys in this story. But the stories coming from the region are horrific! Is it true that it is the official policy of the IDF to shoot to kill children who throw stones at them? Plus because Israel is making serious efforts to choke off all information from the region, I understand that it takes some time before a sober accounting of an incident like this reaches the outside world. To avoid the charged rhetoric I have waited. Yet the point blank executions of humanitarian workers is still shocking to me. Such reckless hate, it must destroy a person.
- tovej 8mo agoWhere I'm sitting, nobody would question that Israel is and has been the bad guy since 1948. Before that it was the Jewish Agency for Palestine/World Zionist Organisation and the British. Israel has been an apartheid performing ethnic cleansing and a slow genocide during its whole existence.
- superb_dev 8mo agoIm questioning whether the Israelis are the good guys. Frankly I don’t know how you can look at their history of provocation and unbalanced retaliation and not begin to wonder if maybe they aren’t the good guys
- 8mo ago
- forvelin 8mo agowhy is this flagged ?
- appreciatorBus 8mo ago> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ycombinatrix 8mo agoThis is most certainly not something that is covered on TV news. Seems on topic to me.
- glenstein 8mo agoI think it also touches on issues of interest to the hn crowd (it's being reported on a YC-incubated platform!), and one especially unique things about the reporting is the spatial reconstruction of the scene, which is not a degree of detail you typically get, and limits the number of variations of interpretations possible. I also think issues of censorship are very high on the list of topics of interest on HN and few topics are subject to more extensive censorship than reporting on events in Israel and Palestine.
- appreciatorBus 8mo agoIsrael and Palestine is one of the most obsessively covered topics in every form of western media. All the more the reason it doesn’t belong on HN. I’ll grant that there’s a tech angle to this specific story, but past experience with such articles on HN is that they reliably devolve into endless repetition of fixed talking points on each side. No useful information or opinion is conveyed, just endless insinuation and infective. Furthermore, there are handful of accounts who sole purpose seems to be to pump the HN feed full of Israel and Palestine. People who want so badly to talk about a single political topic should probably go to Bluesky.
- bananamansion 8mo ago[flagged]
- throwaw12 8mo agoThings are in terrible state in the world. Gaza exposed it even more: * No one accepts high western "morality" anymore * Most US politicians are blackmailed via Epstein who worked for Israel, with high probability, including Trump * ICE is just the beginning, they're trained by IDF, send more people and 1940 is not too far away from us
- 7952 8mo ago> * No one accepts high western "morality" anymore Is that an accurate trend on an individual basis?
- throwaw12 8mo agoTravel to Middle East, some parts of Africa and China, ask what people think. Most say have similar opinion that west is not "morally" superior.
- spwa4 8mo agoTravel to anywhere, anywhere at all, ask people if they consider themselves morally superior ...
- asdfss674564 8mo ago[dead]
- rbanffy 8mo agoSouth America as well, in particular with regard to the US. Too many coups and sponsorship of military dictatorships will do that.
- throwaw12 8mo ago[flagged]
- glenstein 8mo agoWith a specificity of the number of shots and the spatial reconstruction of the scene, there's some impressive uses of tech to bolster reporting: >A digital reconstruction of the scene shows that the soldiers would have had an uninterrupted view of the arrival of the convoy. >The reconstruction was jointly achieved with the two survivors of the incident, with an immersive spatial model they could walk through and amend. Together with spatial and audio analysis we established the position of the soldiers on an elevated ground with an unobstructed line of sight to the emergency vehicles.
- NicuCalcea 8mo agoForensic Architecture, the people who did the spatial reconstruction, have been around for a while. You can see more examples of their investigations here: https://forensic-architecture.org/ https://forensic-architecture.org/
- lilytweed 8mo agoForensic Architecture are great. I remember their work being very hot in the international art scene around ~2018 (when they were nominated for the prestigious Turner Prize, among others - https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-britain/turner-prize-2018/forensic-architecture https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-britain/turner-prize-2...). Not sure if they're still fêted as artists or have moved away from that label. I still find their approach completely mesmerizing nevertheless.
- netsharc 8mo agoWhat a depressing portfolio... Their reconstruction of the Beirut Port explosion was incredible though: https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/beirut-port-explosion https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/beirut-port-...
- magic_hamster 8mo ago[flagged]
- 8mo ago
- kharak 8mo ago[flagged]
- jquery 8mo agoHacker News is not solely news about hacking. "On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."
- mapt 8mo agoEcholocation based on audio from a cell phone video, with the reports echoing off flat walls in the area, establishes 3D troop movement during the massacre, and the eventual close-range executions. Including of the person whose cell phone it was. Eyewitness accounts may be dismissed for any number of biases by the motivated reasoner, but echoes are echoes.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- aa-jv 8mo agoThere are plenty of people on HN who are active in protecting human rights, and this particular incident is a clear example of the amount of work still left to do in the world by those of us who care about each other more than we cling to national identities - especially those national identities with a long track record of human rights violations.
- wtfwhateven 8mo agoyou cannot be serious. wtf?
- churchill 8mo agoIsn't mass murder of civilians the most Israeli thing ever? For those out of the loop, this isn't an anomaly. It's a societal-level policy: 47% of Israeli Jews want all Palestinians killed; 82% want all Palestinians forcefully expelled (i.e., ethnically cleansed) [0] which would constitute genocide. 56% want the same for all Israeli Arabs. So, it's pathetic when Westerners act surprised at Israel's antics: you can't support a genocidal state and then be shocked when it does genocidal stuff. This is just Tuesday for them. Once you understand this, Israel's actions are not an anomaly. It's the natural expression of people who consider their neighbors beneath them, and barely even human. [0]: https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/poll-show-most-jewish-israelis-support-expelling-gazans https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/poll-show-most-jew...
- badc0ffee 8mo ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 8mo agoI do like to set a personal moral standard a little higher than "what would Hamas endorse?"
- pcthrowaway 8mo agoHamas also doesn't endorse genocide of Jewish people. In 2018, after the deadliest attack of Jews in the U.S. (11 killed during an attack on a synagogue), Hamas condemned the attack: https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/187356-181028-hamas-condemns-pittsburgh-synagogue-attack https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/187356-181028-h... They do want Palestine (from the river to sea) to be under Muslim and Arab rule, which is still a racial and religious hierarchy similar to Zionism, which we have seen can all to easily lead to genocide, so I don't want to suggest they are beacons of morality, but they are certainly no worse than Israel, and they are operating from the position of having one of the world's most advanced militaries and media apparati stacked against them
- 8mo ago
- churchill 8mo ago[dead]
- mapt 8mo agoWhy was this flagged? Automatically / without review? This is a novel tech story, albeit one without a lot of technical detail. https://www.earshot.ngo/what-we-do/audio-ballistics https://www.earshot.ngo/what-we-do/audio-ballistics https://forensic-architecture.org/ https://forensic-architecture.org/ https://content.forensic-architecture.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Israeli-Executions-of-Palestinian-Aid-Workers.pdf https://content.forensic-architecture.org/wp-content/uploads... > Earshot used echolocation to analyze the audio on the recordings in order to arrive at precise estimates of the shooters’ locations. Echolocation is the process of locating the source of a sound based on an analysis of the sound’s echoes and the environment in which the sound travels. The Israeli military destroyed and cleared so many buildings in the Tel Al-Sultan area where the ambush of the aid workers took place that very few structures remained. This destruction actually strengthened Earshot’s ability to determine the positions and movements of Israeli soldiers, based on identifying the surfaces responsible for clearly distinguishable gunshot echoes. Rather than having multiple buildings reflecting the sound waves, there were only a few standing walls and the emergency vehicles themselves. > “Earshot forensically analyzed over 900 gunshots fired at aid workers. It took one whole year of careful listening to reconstruct an auditory picture of what happened that dark night,” Lawrence Abu Hamdan, the director of Earshot, told Drop Site. I'm not sure how much this was actually necessary to the eventual verdict if this is ever adjudicated, though, if "hiding the evidence" is a factor: > Following the ambush, Israeli forces crushed all eight vehicles using heavy machinery and attempted to bury them under the sand. > The body of Anwar al-Attar was found near the ambush site on March 27, and the bodies of the other 14 aid workers, all wearing identifying uniforms or volunteer vests of their respective organizations, were found in a mass grave near the site on March 30. But the understanding that they were advanced upon in a walking wave of fire, and then the survivors were executed one by one at close range, may help.
- jquery 8mo agoReal shame this got flagged so quickly, too. This is prime HN material.
- dudefeliciano 8mo agothis is prime material for HN to flag...
- datsci_est_2015 8mo agoIs there an HN but for anarchists? Or maybe just anti-authoritarians?
- glitchc 8mo agoThe Atlantic? I kid. I really mean Al-Jazeera.
- thomassmith65 8mo agoThere are no anti-authoritarian news outlets in Qatar, for obvious reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Qatar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Qatar
- glitchc 8mo agoOf course, that's because Qatar actually is an authoritarian state, unlike the US. It hasn't stopped Al-Jazeera from challenging the authority of other nations or claiming that they are authoritarian. Pot, meet kettle and all that.
- diffs 8mo agoI think The Atlantic is actually pretty close to the mark. Committed, hardcore ideologues frequently turn out to be authoritarian, even if they refer to themselves as "anarchists". Most of these ideologues are busy administering ever more stringent purity tests to anyone they encounter lest someone in their vicinity commit wrongthink. There is a name for people who build coalitions through compromise and diplomacy, and work towards pragmatic solutions to actual problems — they're called "centrists".
- dudefeliciano 8mo agoI reached this post via https://github.com/vitoplantamura/HackerNewsRemovals https://github.com/vitoplantamura/HackerNewsRemovals I recommend any hackernews users to check that site frequently, plenty of interesting posts on hackernews that get flagged and hidden daily.
- smartbit 8mo agoIn https://hckrnews.com https://hckrnews.com these flagged items appear listed. With https://hckrnews.com https://hckrnews.com as my entry into HN I don't see the need for HackerNewsRemovals other than curiosity to see what is removed.
- culi 8mo agoThey also appear on https://hn.algolia.com/ https://hn.algolia.com/
- 34679 8mo agoYou can just click on your username in the upper right and change "showdead" from "no" to "yes".
- dudefeliciano 8mo agook I just found out about /active a few weeks ago and now this? stop humiliating me please
- _DeadFred_ 8mo ago[flagged]
- iufybbyy 8mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- jayquery 8mo ago[flagged]
- gopheryourshelf 8mo ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 8mo agoI remember when folks here were shilling the "Israel promises they'd never bomb a hospital" and "Hamas is lying about the death toll" lines. All the hospitals are now rubble, and the IDF quietly let it slip that the death toll is legit recently. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2026-01-29/ty-article/.premium/idf-accepts-gaza-health-ministry-estimate-of-over-70-000-palestinians-killed-in-the-war/0000019c-0918-dec4-adfd-fd5dde830000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2026-01-29/ty-article/.p... There's damning video of this specific incident, recovered from the dead. I suspect subsequent massacres made a policy of finding and destroying all the phones. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-aid-workers-deaths-video.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/world/middleeast/gaza-isr...
- ignoramous 8mo ago> All the hospitals are now rubble Hospitals may have been used for retaliation [0], but it is unclear how many & in what capacity (according to accepted conventions, using a hospital to treat wounded combatants wouldn't make it a valid military target, for example; but hiding weapons or personnel would). [0] One such recent report: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/msf-suspends-some-gaza-hospital-work-over-presence-gunmen-suspected-weapons-2026-02-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...
- weird_tentacles 8mo ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 8mo agoIt's not at all an uncommon scenario to have to deal with in war, especially asymmetrical conflicts. IMO, Israel stepped very clearly over the line, repeatedly, in how they handled it, but the parent post is a pretty reasonable summary of the considerations.
- weird_tentacles 8mo ago
- _zachs 8mo ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 8mo agoOh, come on. > The Israeli military was forced to change its story about the ambush several times, following the discovery of the bodies in a mass grave, along with their flattened vehicles, and the emergence of video and audio recordings taken by the aid workers. An internal military inquiry ultimately did not recommend any criminal action against the army units responsible for the incident. Unfortunately, the takeaway here will be "be better at destroying the evidence". The video is quite damning against their initial claims; it includes an uninterrupted view of their arrival, in marked emergency vehicles with lights on and uniformed personnel, and the gunfire beginning: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/world/middleeast/gaza-israel-aid-workers-deaths-video.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/world/middleeast/gaza-isr...
- knickerbockeroo 8mo ago[flagged]
- tovej 8mo agoThat's literally the opposite of how the media game around this genocide has played out. And Forensic Architecture has proven to be a reliable source thoughout the conflict.
- heyitsmedotjayb 8mo ago[flagged]
- estearum 8mo ago[flagged]
- dang 8mo agoPlease don't cross into personal attack, no matter how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- coolca 8mo agoDisgusted by this, I hope that the good people of Israel realize what their hideous regime is doing and stop it. I know for sure that
- weird_tentacles 8mo ago[flagged]
- RIMR 8mo agoDamn, the IDF got this guy mid-sentence...
- jihadjihad 8mo agoWHAT DOES HE KNOW FOR SURE???
- ebbi 8mo agoThe problem is majority of Israeli citizens think the government isn't doing enough. Cue the citizens that protested to stop the aid trucks from going into Gaza. The citizens that protested because the Israeli military arrested (after a lot of international pressure) soldiers that were caught raping Palestinian prisoners. They were protesting for the right of soldiers to continue to rape.
- woodruffw 8mo ago> The citizens that protested because the Israeli military arrested (after a lot of international pressure) soldiers that were caught raping Palestinian prisoners. The people you're talking about are Israel's far-right. I don't think you can index from them onto the median Israeli's political views anymore than you could reasonably index from a member of Hamas's armed wing onto the median Palestinian. (A recurring theme in both I/P and MENA conflicts more generally is that political minorities - WB settlers in Israel, for example, manage to wield disproportionate power and induce chaos and strife across the region.)
- 8mo ago
- heyitsmedotjayb 8mo agoMike Huckabee said yesterday that all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates should be taken by Israel. That would involve a cleansing of hundreds of millions of people.
- herdst 8mo ago[flagged]
- themafia 8mo ago> He immediately qualified it Did he qualify it by indicating his claim is based on centuries old religious documents that are not agreed to by any majority of the Earth's population?
- heyitsmedotjayb 8mo agoIf they're not seeking to take it, then why are Zionist settlers currently crossing into Syria and taking it?
- halflife 8mo agoBecause they are crazy people? Not representing anyone in Israel?
- heyitsmedotjayb 8mo agoThey're supported and armed by the IDF
- halflife 8mo ago[flagged]
- heyitsmedotjayb 8mo agoIf they're such crazy violent outliers, why doesn't the Israeli government crack down and prosecute them? They could treat them the same way they treat a Palestinian who throws rocks, for example. But they don't.
- upmind 8mo agoIf this was happening against the west, people would care a lot more. Unfortunately, nothing seems to be happening to Israel.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- MagicMoonlight 8mo ago[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago> If this was happening against the west, people would care a lot more It’s literally happening in Ukraine and, to a lesser scale but precisely the same in type, Minneapolis. On the other hand, there are conflicts across Africa and Asia which are not receiving half the attention.
- kombine 8mo ago> On the other hand, there are conflicts across Africa and Asia which are not receiving half the attention. Because the West doesn't fund and shield the perpetrators unlike Israel.
- throwaway3060 8mo agoI hear this sentiment a lot when it comes to people trying to justify why Ukrainians or Iranians are somehow less deserving of their attentions, and it infuriates me every time. If the goal is to try to prevent unjustified killings, then it makes no sense.
- kombine 8mo agoI personally raise awareness about Ukraine and Palestine in equal measure. But there is fundamental difference: Israelis will stop their violence on Palestinians the minute they lose support of the US and Europ, whereas the West doesn't hold the same leverage over Russia.
- jajuuka 8mo agoI just wanna say it's nice to see more people finally waking up and smelling the ashes. I can only hope in the future this genocide will be studied to better understand the main points of failure to not repeat such a widely event covered event.
- incahoots 8mo ago[flagged]
- dralley 8mo agoThe problem is that both sides lie flagrantly with such frequency that very few claims about the war can be taken at face value. On the other side there was the famous "hospital bombing" news event early in the war where it was claimed that 500 people were killed, and then within a couple of hours it became obvious that the explosion was caused by a misfiring Hamas rocket, with video from multiple angles of the failure, that it hit an empty parking lot in front of the hospital and only blew out the windows and burnt a few cars, and that no more than a handful of people had been killed. And also the repeated claims that Israel were lying about the tunnels under Gaza Hospitals, and make videos of one such strike (a bunker buster penetrating the parking lot just outside the entrance) go viral, only for Hamas to later announce that one of the replacement leaders for Sinwar had been killed in that strike, and for excavation to find the bunkers / tunnel network underneath that very hospital. As well as, earlier in the war, a Hamas bunker w/ data center equipment directly underneath the UNRWA HQ in Gaza. None of that justifies genuine instances of war crimes and atrocities that Israel may have committed, but there's a reason why people tune out some of the extreme claims that fly around.
- vibeprofessor 8mo ago[flagged]
- HappyPanacea 8mo ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 8mo ago> Earshot used echolocation to analyze the audio on the recordings in order to arrive at precise estimates of the shooters’ locations. Echolocation is the process of locating the source of a sound based on an analysis of the sound’s echoes and the environment in which the sound travels. The Israeli military destroyed and cleared so many buildings in the Tel Al-Sultan area where the ambush of the aid workers took place that very few structures remained. This destruction actually strengthened Earshot’s ability to determine the positions and movements of Israeli soldiers, based on identifying the surfaces responsible for clearly distinguishable gunshot echoes. Rather than having multiple buildings reflecting the sound waves, there were only a few standing walls and the emergency vehicles themselves. Seems like interesting tech.
- gryzzly 8mo agoMuch discussion of the tech here, lots of it. Should be definitely flagged.
- xinuc 8mo agoIt's relevant for all humanity. Not relevant only for those that have lost theirs. Nice try Zionist drone.
- adv0r 8mo ago[flagged]
- lyu07282 8mo agoI don't know lots of zionist fashists defending their favourite ethno state all over here
- kazinator 8mo ago[flagged]
- mhb 8mo agoThat battle's been fought and lost. The moderators' suggestion, which I recommend, is to email the moderators.
- culi 8mo agoRead the article. This is an incredible feat of science and technology. The "forensic architecture" done here uses genuinely innovative and groundbreaking technologies and techniques. Even if you somehow have no sympathy for the conflict it is undeniably fascinating work
- blacklight 8mo ago[flagged]
- axus 8mo agoThat didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not the IDF's fault. And if it was, they didn't mean it. And if they did, Gaza deserved it.
- stackedinserter 8mo ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 8mo ago> That didn't happen. Hamas brags even about their failed attacks. Your comparison fails at the first step. > And if it was, we didn't mean it. And this one! How often does Hamas pull the "we didn't mean it!" card for their attacks on Israel? Have they ever? Of course they mean it, they're a bunch of assholes.
- nailer 8mo ago[flagged]
- denkmoon 8mo agoGood thing one can be anti genocide without being pro hamas
- nailer 8mo ago[flagged]
- denkmoon 8mo agoGreat news then, there are no conspiracy theories here. Just claims supported by the UN Human Rights Commission. https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c...
- dkersten 8mo ago[flagged]
- bamboozled 8mo ago[flagged]
- neaden 8mo agoPeople in places like this generally don't feel the need to condemn Hamas because it's understood that they are bad. Hamas is not an ally of the United States, it's troops and police force don't train with the United States military, it does not buy weapons from United States factories, and it does not receive government aid from the United States. If you feel the need to, you can add a condemnation of Hamas to basically every post here and it'll be accurate. Hell if you want to add a condemnation to the Iranian and North Korean governments too while you're there, that'd be fine too.
- criddell 8mo agoThere are a bunch of people here who are university students and Hamas support isn't as low as you might think on western campuses.
- bdhe 8mo agoHamas support or Palestinian support?
- appreciatorBus 8mo ago[flagged]
- yosamino 8mo agoThe meaning of your comment is > The people I don't agree with are too stupid to understand what they are supporting. That is lazy thinking, and your claim is unsubstantiated. That doesn't move a discussion towards a better understanding of each other, it fosters division. Please don't do that.
- EchoReflection 8mo ago[flagged]
- woodruffw 8mo agoDon't do this. TFA doesn't come even remotely close to collectively blaming Jews (or Israelis) for this particular war crime.
- EchoReflection 8mo agoDon't do what? Point out that "TFA' is selectively reporting on an (admittedly undeniably tragic and dystopian, as war inherently is) situation that has been weaponized by powerful, unfathomably wealthy “news” (”real” news can be framed such that it is “propaganda”) organizations? Analysis of Potential Anti-Israel Bias Bias in journalism is best assessed through criteria such as language tone, source selection and balance, contextual framing, omissions, and factual selectivity. This article exhibits several hallmarks of anti-Israel bias in its presentation, while reporting on verifiable elements of a tragic incident that has drawn international scrutiny. Loaded and emotive language: Terms like "massacre," "executed," "execution-style killings," "ambushed," "point-blank range," and "deliberately" dominate descriptions of Israeli actions. Palestinian victims are consistently portrayed as unarmed, clearly identifiable "aid workers" with "emergency lights" and markings visible. Israeli forces are depicted as advancing methodically to kill survivors without provocation. By contrast, the article does not use neutral phrasing such as "incident," "exchange of fire," or "alleged." A quoted Forensic Architecture official explicitly links the event to "genocide," which the piece endorses without qualification. One-sided sourcing and lack of balance: The core narrative relies on PRCS (a Palestinian organization), two named survivors, and Forensic Architecture/Earshot—entities whose prior work has frequently focused on alleged Israeli violations. A single supportive quote comes from a Center for Constitutional Rights attorney. The Israeli military's response is relegated to a brief paragraph near the end, presented without detailed rebuttal or independent corroboration of its claims (e.g., that the convoy was uncoordinated or posed a perceived threat in an active combat zone). No interviews with IDF personnel, Israeli forensic experts, or neutral third-party analysts appear. Selective contextual framing and omissions: The article opens by noting Israel's "abandonment" of a January 2025 ceasefire and resumption of "scorched earth bombing," implying unprovoked aggression. It provides no discussion of the broader operational context in Rafah (an area of ongoing military activity post-ceasefire violations by both sides), Hamas's documented history of embedding in civilian and medical infrastructure, or any potential misidentification of vehicles/personnel in pre-dawn conditions. Claims of a "rescue convoy" responding to an airstrike omit whether movements were coordinated with Israeli forces (a point raised in Israeli accounts). Post-incident military engineering (the "Morag Corridor") is framed solely as evidence concealment rather than standard security measures. Autopsy details from PRCS/Guardian sources alleging "intent to kill" are accepted without cross-examination. Publication context: Drop Site News, founded by journalists with records of critical coverage of Israel and U.S. policy, is rated left-biased by independent evaluators, with a tendency toward one-sided narratives on conflict issues. The timing aligns precisely with the Forensic Architecture/Earshot report release, functioning more as advocacy amplification than detached analysis. Counterpoints and Broader Context Independent reporting and Israeli statements acknowledge a serious incident involving the deaths of protected aid personnel, with autopsies indicating close-range upper-body wounds and an internal IDF probe admitting a "professional error" while denying executions. The audio-visual evidence cited (gunshot counts, shooter positioning via echolocation, lack of return fire) appears methodologically rigorous and has been cross-verified in allied outlets. However, Israeli accounts describe an ambush setup in a high-threat environment where the convoy's approach was deemed suspicious, with no coordination notified. The event occurred amid resumed hostilities following ceasefire breakdowns, and Palestinian Civil Defense has been alleged by Israel to have militant ties in other contexts. These elements receive minimal or no engagement in the article, limiting its analytical depth. Overall Assessment The article demonstrates clear anti-Israel bias through its adversarial framing, selective emphasis, emotive terminology, and near-exclusive reliance on sources critical of Israel, while marginalizing the Israeli perspective and relevant conflict context. It advances a narrative of deliberate, unprovoked executions as established fact, rather than a contested interpretation of evidence from a chaotic combat zone. That said, the underlying forensic reconstruction raises substantive questions about proportionality and accountability that merit transparent investigation by credible international bodies—not dismissal. A more balanced treatment would integrate diverse viewpoints, test competing hypotheses (e.g., misidentification versus intent), and avoid presuming genocidal motive. Readers seeking a fuller picture should consult primary sources, including the full Earshot/Forensic Architecture report, Israeli military statements, and contemporaneous coverage from multiple outlets.
- greedo 8mo agohttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/the-gaza-family-torn-apart-by-idf-snipers-from-chicago-and-munich https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/the-gaza-famil... Read that and tell me that Israel is acting proportionally...
- austin-cheney 8mo agoIf video evidence indicates IDF personnel committing these crimes also happen to be US citizens I wonder if those people could face criminal prosecution in the US. As an American I wouldn't want to live next to or do business with a serial murderer. I certainly wouldn't want them coaching my kids sports or other community involvement.
- s5300 8mo ago[dead]
- an0malous 8mo ago> If video evidence indicates IDF personnel committing these crimes also happen to be US citizens I wonder if those people could face criminal prosecution in the US. I think it’s become pretty apparent that they would not face any repercussions and might even be rewarded.
- adonovan 8mo agoThey certainly could be prosecuted; see https://www.cair.com/press_releases/cair-chicago-urges-doj-to-file-war-crime-charges-against-naperville-man-who-joined-idf-admitted-sniping-children https://www.cair.com/press_releases/cair-chicago-urges-doj-t.... But at this point the DoJ acts more like Trump's personal law firm.
- sharts 8mo agoIsrael doesn’t extradite to the US. Hence why so many pedos escape to there
- boppo1 8mo ago
- iberator 8mo agoMy stance is Mossad reading: - Likud is an evil political party - Natanyahu is a wanted war criminal - IDF committed many atrocities - Hamas was insane to think that Bibi would NOT BOMB the Gaza in retaliation. - Hamas was the first to cast the stone. - Israel ALWAYS gonna retaliate with non proportional force when it comes to security of its citizens.
- ch0wn 8mo ago> Hamas was the first to cast the stone. That is ignoring many decades of history.
- irishcoffee 8mo ago[flagged]
- yosamino 8mo ago[flagged]
- ultrablack 8mo agoThe muslims arent native to the land though. They are just colonizers.
- 46493168 8mo agoThere was never a process where Arab or Muslim conquerors completely replaced the native population, they just added to it. Conversion and Arabization gradually transformed the existing population’s identity. If descent from conquerors means colonizer, then virtually no population on earth is non-colonial. Arabs in Palestine, Normans in England, Turks in Anatolia, Romans everywhere… Colonizer status is typically attached to an event and structure, not inherited indefinitely.
- 8mo ago
- mupuff1234 8mo ago[flagged]
- magic_hamster 8mo ago[flagged]
- myth_drannon 8mo ago[flagged]
- amcoastal 8mo ago[dead]
- simianparrot 8mo ago[flagged]
- moxifly7 8mo ago[dead]
- wiredpancake 8mo ago[dead]
- aaron695 8mo ago[dead]
- thenaturalist 8mo agoWhat is the HN community doing to use tech to combat terrorism and defend civilian security and freedom?
- sgt 8mo agoWell, you could join Palantir and fight terrorism: https://www.palantir.com/careers/ https://www.palantir.com/careers/
- 4gotunameagain 8mo agoWell, you could join Palantir and f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶t̶e̶r̶r̶o̶r̶i̶s̶m̶ help develop Israel's terrorism in Gaza.
- rainmaking 8mo ago[flagged]
- NickC25 8mo ago>If you go around accusing Israel of genocide, deliberately omitting the little detail of facing an enemy who does everything they can to get their own people killed to make you look bad Easy to make that enemy look bad when you are an impoverished country that has no food, no old people (they were all killed) or modern weapons, that enemy is starving you, killing your women and children, bombing schools and hospitals.....and oh yeah that nation has nuclear weapons.
- yosamino 8mo agoI find that a good sniff-test in politics is to change the actor in a claim to be Jewish and then consider if that make the claim an antisemitic conspiracy theory. Works surprisingly well. For example: > facing an enemy [Hamas] who does everything they can to get their own people killed to make you look bad Imagine the "enemy" in that sentence was not "Hamas", but "The Jews" - that would be a very antisemitic narrative, and in a similar way that antisemitism has nothing really to do with Jews, but rather with antisemites what you are writing here just shows your hatred. > does everything to get their own people killed for the purposed of making the killer look bad, is such a naïve take on this. Do you think netanyahu and his cronies care about "looking bad" ? To whom ? That ship has sailed since at least the 90ies.
- LorenPechtel 8mo ago[flagged]
- yosamino 8mo ago> I recall some time ago an Israeli strike--they hit with a roof knocker, Hamas responded by ordering the neighbors to rush to the roof. Too slow, the house was packed with people when the bomb fell. And somehow that's Israel's fault?! I don't even understand what you are trying to tell me here. You are constructing a sourceless story that after the Israeli Army dropped a small bomb on a house ( "roof knocker" is a euphemism) Hamas ordered some civilians to go on top of the roof. Hamas did this, in your telling, because they knew that the first small bomb, was the precursor to a large second bomb designed to explode the whole building. What would be the military objective here? Hamas knows that human shields do not stop the Israeli army. So it was not to stop the Israeli army from blowing up the building. Even worse, your logic is not even that Hamas ordered the civilians to go up on the roof not because they thought it would prevent the Israeli army from blowing up the house, you write > Hamas deliberately gets people killed. that means you think that Hamas sent these people on the roof to let the Israeli army execute them, not even to use them as a human shield. That is such a confused story. Can you explain what you are talking about ? What probably really happened is that Israel did a double tap: attack once, wait for people to rush back to tend to the injured, attack them again. While atrocious, there is at least a military tactic behind this. Your story about Hamas sending people on a roof in order for them to be killed has no sense to it and it seems it's only purpose is to dehumanize Palestinians. But maybe I am off here. Please explain what you were trying to tell me again.
- throwawayheui57 8mo agoIranian here! I wish freedom for the people of Gaza and an end to their suffering and oppression. Down with all the dictators and oppressors. Be it IRGC or IDF.
- IncreasePosts 8mo ago[flagged]
- mikestorrent 8mo ago[flagged]
- EchoReflection 8mo ago↑ uncouth, classless comment. Here's a list to help ease angst about how "necessary" or "appropriate" it may or may not be to universally villainize/dehumanize Republicans/conservatives: Beyond the foundational achievement of Abraham Lincoln in preserving the Union and ending slavery, the Republican Party has initiated several major policies that are widely regarded as landmarks of progress in American and global history. Given your focus on “material and real-world results” rather than hypothetical concepts, these examples highlight tangible shifts in infrastructure, health, and civil rights. 1. The Creation of the National Park System (Theodore Roosevelt) Theodore Roosevelt, a Republican, is often called the “Conservationist President.” He used his authority to protect approximately 230 million acres of public land. Material Result: He established the U.S. Forest Service and signed the Antiquities Act of 1906, which allowed for the protection of landmarks as National Monuments 1. This created the blueprint for the modern National Park System, ensuring that vast wilderness areas remained public rather than being depleted by unregulated industry. 2. The Interstate Highway System (Dwight D. Eisenhower) In 1956, President Eisenhower signed the Federal-Aid Highway Act, which authorized the construction of 41,000 miles of interstate highways. Material Result: This is often cited as the largest public works project in human history. It fundamentally transformed the American economy by lowering transportation costs, enhancing national security (allowing for rapid troop movement), and physically uniting the country. 3. Founding of the EPA and the Clean Air Act (Richard Nixon) While Richard Nixon is a controversial figure, his environmental record resulted in some of the most successful bipartisan legislation in U.S. history. Material Result: In 1970, Nixon established the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and signed the Clean Air Act. These actions led to a dramatic reduction in lead in the atmosphere, a decrease in acid rain, and significantly cleaner waterways across the nation 1. These laws prevented an estimated 205,000 premature deaths in their first 20 years alone. 4. The Americans with Disabilities Act (George H.W. Bush) Signed in 1990, the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) was a landmark civil rights law that prohibited discrimination based on disability. Material Result: This act forced a “material” change in the physical world—requiring “reasonable accommodations” like ramps, elevators, and accessible public transit. It is considered the gold standard for disability rights globally and was passed with broad Republican leadership. 5. PEPFAR: The Global Fight Against HIV/AIDS (George W. Bush) In 2003, George W. Bush launched the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) to combat the HIV/AIDS epidemic, primarily in Africa. Material Result: This program is almost universally praised as one of the most successful humanitarian programs in history. As of 2024, it is credited with saving more than 25 million lives and preventing millions of HIV infections. It reflects a massive, tangible victory in global health initiated by a Republican administration. 6. The First Step Act (Donald Trump) In 2018, the First Step Act was signed into law to address issues in the federal criminal justice system, such as reducing recidivism and correcting sentencing disparities that disproportionately affected minority communities. Material Result: This was a rare bipartisan “victory” that led to the immediate release of thousands of non-violent offenders and established new rehabilitative programs within federal prisons. --- But yeah. "republicans are evil" is only three words and that's a whole lot easier to handle conceptually (and self-gratifyingly!), so let's just go physically attack people like Charlie Kirk, Edward Coristine ("Big Balls"), or set fire to a Tesla dealership! "Glorious socialism is the only solution to defeating the 'evil capitalists' that are 'ruining the world' ", right? https://museumofcommunistterror.com/ https://museumofcommunistterror.com/ https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/basic-economics-a-citizens-guide-to-the-economy_thomas-sowell/258047/#edition=8369359&idiq=10225481 https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/basic-economics-a-citizens-gui... https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/social-justice-fallacies-9781541603929 https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/social-justi... https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-case-for-trump-9781541606432 https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-case-for... https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind-how-good-intentions-and-bad-ideas-are-setting-up-a-generation-for-9780735224919 https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-coddling... https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-parasitic-mind-how-infectious-ideas-are-killing-common-sense-9781621579595 https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-parasiti... https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-war-on-the-west-how-to-prevail-in-the-age-of-unreason-9780008492496 https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-war-on-t... https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-madness-of-crowds-gender-race-and-identity-9781635579949 https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-madness-... https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-strange-death-of-europe-immigration-identity-islam-9781472958051 https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/the-strange-... https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/on-democracies-and-death-cults-israel-and-the-future-of-civilization-9780063437135 https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/on-democraci... ---- *Quick Fun Fact:* Debating someone who emotes instead of reasons taps into an ancient human flaw: In argument psychology, it’s called the *backfire effect* — *when presented with evidence, people often double down instead of reconsidering.* (Brains: delightfully stubborn jelly blobs.) https://youtu.be/qIyOpFkvKZ8?si=hffb40PEnP5WfOIk https://youtu.be/qIyOpFkvKZ8?si=hffb40PEnP5WfOIk
- Dig1t 8mo ago>Israeli soldiers fired over 900 bullets at the aid workers That is a LOT of shooting. A normal mag holds 30 rounds, that's 30 full magazines worth of bullets they dumped into these people. They were really trying to make sure there were no survivors.
- vkou 8mo agoWhat is the appropriate term to describe something that would do such a thing to a human being? What should be done with it?
- alphawhisky 8mo ago[flagged]
- mmustapic 8mo agoNo, you don't commit war crimes against anybody. You call them war criminals and prosecute them.
- KennyBlanken 8mo agoShot, execution-style, then dumped in a mass grave. The ambulances were then buried to try and hide evidence of the attack.
- manyaoman 8mo agoI hear about IDF war crimes all the time, but this level of lying and cover-up is something new and causing me some serious cognitive dissonance right now. On the tech side I’m wondering if any LLMs were used for the investigation, they don't seem to mention any by name at least.
- proxysna 8mo agoExceptional report. Surprised to see that much of a confusion on HN about why it is there. MH17 posts with forensics did not seem to be offtopic when they were posted. This fits.
- aaron695 8mo ago[dead]
- rekrsiv 8mo ago[flagged]
- lingrush4 8mo ago[flagged]
- dfilppi 8mo ago[dead]
- denkmoon 8mo agoThe team involved in this analysis, Forensic Architecture, have a pretty decent youtube channel showing how they do things: https://www.youtube.com/@forensicarchitecture1967/videos https://www.youtube.com/@forensicarchitecture1967/videos
- richardfeynman 8mo ago[flagged]
- Sebguer 8mo agocan you provide that history? the best I can find is a single story where they incorrectly reported four children as dead, which I can only really find being discussed in reddit comments. surely if they have a 'documented history of being wrong' you're referring to something more material?
- darig 8mo ago[dead]
- jaimex2 8mo agoThis seems pretty damning. https://ngo-monitor.org/ngos/forensic-architecture/ https://ngo-monitor.org/ngos/forensic-architecture/
- austin-cheney 8mo agoI skimmed through that page but did not notice anything remotely negative.
- jaimex2 8mo ago[flagged]
- denkmoon 8mo agoDepends how much you weight you place on 'anti-Israel NGO'. Assessing for myself by simply watching the content, I do not find it objectionable. Referring to what is happening in Gaza as 'ethnic cleansing' is not biased language, it is calling a spade a spade. IMO.
- CommanderData 8mo agoIsrael killed UK army veterans, it was a targeted operation and a precision strike to send a message. It was covered by UK media for a short period and they would gloss over the veterans and focus more broadly on WCK, there is lots of examples of UK media weird coverage like this which no doubt was intentional. It was also barely spoken about by UK politicians RIP John Chapman, James Henderson, and James Kirby.
- ChoGGi 8mo agoI've never seen a topic I couldn't upvote before?
- pinkmuffinere 8mo agoI can upvote just fine. Perhaps you’ve already upvoted it, so the (already used) upvote button is now missing?
- ChoGGi 8mo agoNope, unvote is missing as well.
- tomhow 8mo agoCould you please email us (hn@ycombinator.com) a screenshot of what you see here? https://news.ycombinator.com/upvoted?id=ChoGGi https://news.ycombinator.com/upvoted?id=ChoGGi
- DSingularity 8mo agonope. I cant upvote it either. @dang
- pinkmuffinere 8mo agodang is very active and often sees these @'s, but there isn't actually any notification-like behavior on HN (or at least there wasn't a year ago). I've emailed hn@ycombinator to let them know there might be some bug here.
- tomhow 8mo agoCould you please email us (hn@ycombinator.com) a screenshot of what you see here? https://news.ycombinator.com/upvoted?id=DSingularity https://news.ycombinator.com/upvoted?id=DSingularity
- mdni007 8mo ago[flagged]
- sudohalt 8mo agoYou still have people defending the occupation forces even when the soldiers themselves are bragging no social media about killing kids, and how they wished they killed more.
- porjo 8mo ago[flagged]
- GaryBluto 8mo agoUnfortunately there is a type of person who thinks there should be no places where politics is absent, and these people will endlessly spam non-tech politics articles like this one in the hopes of a few making it to the front page and surviving being flagged. You'll notice that posts like these don't have actual, logical discussion underneath and in their stead have repetitive slogan comments.
- TacticalCoder 8mo agoThe real question is: why is this on hacker news with 4 digits upvotes and why has Gaza been on Hacker News non-stop while there's been hardly any coverage of the islamist republic of Iran slaughtering tens of thousands of unarmed civilians in a matter of days. And I already know that although there's been very little coverage so far of what's happened in Iran, where islamists have been executing people inside hospitals, there's going to be non-stop coverage of Iran if the US decides to strike Iran to topple the islamist regime / prevent them from getting the atomic bomb. Then we'll have detective work to find innocents killed and upvoting of stories about how the evil west is committing war crimes on innocent islamists. But tens of thousands of unarmed civilians --who want sharia law to stop and who are protesting for a regime change-- being executed by an islamist regime? Very little coverage on HN. There's an ongoing inquiry led by several members or parliament in the UK about mass rapes that happened on UK soil, complete with a cover-up attempt by the government, involvement of police officers, as much, in some cities, as 30% of all men from one particular community involved, descriptions of killings (according to the testimony of some victims), of victims having their tongue nailed to the table and being ass-raped by several men, etc. And no coverage on HN. But the IDF firing for four minutes on the Toyota Hilux'es from Gaza aid workers: more than 1000 upvotes. The double standards here are just insane.
- ceejayoz 8mo ago> The real question is: why is this on hacker news with 4 digits upvotes and why has Gaza been on Hacker News non-stop while there's been hardly any coverage of the islamist republic of Iran slaughtering tens of thousands of unarmed civilians in a matter of days. 900 points, 800 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46760329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46760329 400 points, 380 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46761822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46761822 And some others: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=true&query=iran&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastMonth&page=0&prefix=tr... (And this one, at least, has the interesting little bit about echolocation from a cell phone video being used to verify events. I find that neat, technologically.)
- snypher 8mo ago[flagged]
- KennyBlanken 8mo agoComparing to their own rituals and practices around corpses it really goes to show just how thoroughly they have dehumanized the Palestinian people. Israel long since stopped using smart bombs because a)they were too expensive and b)they didn't really give a shit who died in them executing someone a black-box AI decided was a terrorist (an AI they know is wildly inaccurate.) But even the smart bombs - they didn't care if they wiped out an entire family just to kill one person. They even have snipers focusing on children. Doctors from international aid organizations working in the hospitals noticed that they were seeing a large number of children were showing up with few injuries/wounds except nearly identical head/chest wounds, and that not many adults were coming in with such injuries. Targeting and prioritizing killing children has only one purpose: extermination.
- LightBug1 8mo ago[flagged]
- Ms-J 8mo ago[dead]
- rustystump 8mo agoThis is reductive. All kinds of other countries do the same and the purpose is crystal clear. It isnt spying and killing without purpose. I dont like it either and i didnt like back when it wasnt trendy to not like it. But it isnt pointless. They know what they are about.
- xg15 8mo agoThe arab states offered a peace plan in 2002 that would include full recognition in exchange of an end of the occupation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative At some point it becomes obvious that Israel (under the current government and political climate) doesn't want peace.
- YZF 8mo agoIn 2000 Israel offered the Palestinians what is essentially the two state solution everyone keeps talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit At some point it becomes obvious the Palestinians (under their current government and political climate) doesn't want peace. Wikipedia is not a good source here. There was never a sincere offer accepted by all Palestinians that acknowledged Israel's right to exist. Specifically the sticky point here is the right of return which means that Israel ceases to exist. A peace proposal that includes the destruction of Israel is not one made on good faith. Either way it's not up to the Arab states to make peace here, it's up to the Palestinians.
- xg15 8mo agoThis proposal? > Most sources agree, that under Israel's final proposal, the Temple Mount (including Al-Aqsa) would remain under Israeli sovereignty. Israel would also take most of the rest of East Jerusalem, while Palestinians would get some parts too. Israel would annex 8% or 13.5% of the West Bank, and would maintain a military of an additional 6–12% of the West Bank for an unspecified period of time (sometimes called a "long term lease"). According to some sources, Israel would also retain its settlement blocks in the Gaza Strip. The Palestinian state would not be contiguous and the West Bank would be split into 2 or 3 sections. Finally, Israel would control Palestinian airspace. How is that a sovereign state? > Specifically the sticky point here is the right of return which means that Israel ceases to exist. If you see Jewish supremacy as a core element of Israeli statehood, then I guess, yes. There are other concepts though, like a one-state solution, which would solve that. > Either way it's not up to the Arab states to make peace here, it's up to the Palestinians. The arab states have leverage though, and in this situation, they tried to use it. I honestly don't see how Palestinians would be able to make peace if the result is more creeping settlements like in the west bank. What is the outlook here? Where would they live?
- krick 8mo agoI would like to know: is there even a single person here, who actually changed his opinion regarding this whole matter upon seeing this report? Not confirmed anything, but actually was forced to re-evaluate his opinion. Like, previously you thought that IDF are good guys, and all Israel does is justified self-defense measures, and now you see this as genocide of Palestinians? Of course, I assume, the answer is — no one. (And I'm hoping somebody will tell me I'm wrong.) So, what's the point? Is somebody gonna be held accountable? Will Israel be treated differently as a country from now on? If no, what's the point?
- stoorafa 8mo agoSeems like you’re asking “what’s the point of investigating crimes against humanity?” And if that’s a question you have to ask, then clearly something is very wrong.
- asacrowflies 8mo agoSeems like a good question to ask imo. The lack of accountability of crimes against humanity and children and the general apathy and shrug worthy reaction to most people to these issues especially on this site seems relevant commentary.
- jancsika 8mo agoThis is a kind of inverted-retrograde of the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect. Gell-Mann: 1) disbelieve a bogus story, then 2) turn the page and blithely believe the next story You: 1) believe bona fide investigative journalism, then 0) ask what the point of journalism even is.
- viking123 8mo agoI can tell you that the genocide and the Epstein files have made me to completely recalibrate my world view in regards to few countries. Absolutely. I bet many normies are going through these thoughts too in their heads now.
- FrancisMoodie 8mo agoJournalism isn't valued by how many opinions have changed, it is there to report on stories that are or have happened. You ask for consequences in your comment but how can there be consequences if there are no reports? Absolutely baffling take.
- mock-possum 8mo agoImagine being one of those soldiers. How could you live with yourself? How could you look anyone in the eye, your comrades, your family?
- superze 8mo agoAccording to reports from locals in Asia and Europe, they are traveling and enjoying life to the fullest while harassing local communities during those trips.
- tdeck 8mo agoThis soldier couldn't https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/21/middleeast/gaza-war-israeli-soldiers-ptsd-suicide-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/21/middleeast/gaza-war-israe... You have to read pretty far into this very sympathetic piece to discover he was running over hundreds of living people with a bullzdozer: > In a testimony to the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, in June, Zaken said that on many occasions, soldiers had to “run over terrorists, dead and alive, in the hundreds.” > “Everything squirts out,” he added.
- Vaslo 8mo agoIf so many comments are going to be flagged, why even bother having a comment section?
- bawolff 8mo agoAnyone else notice the "lorem ipsum" on page 13?
- 948382828528 8mo ago[flagged]
- stoorafa 8mo agoAh, yes, part one of the ole That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not the IDF's fault. And if it was, they didn't mean it. And if they did, Gaza deserved it.
- smashah 8mo agoIn the last 3 years, many users on HN have justified Genocide constantly and openly while downvoting any dissenting opinion trying to speak up against this genocide. And all of them, without fail, when convenient, without consequence, will lie and act like they were against it. Once the genocidaires have built waterfront property upon the fresh tiny bones once the Board of Holocaust Profiteering is done with its demonic mandate. The entirety of the upper echelons of the tech industry, now in bed with the death industry, is that one swimming pool scene from "The Zone of Interest". Shame on all of you. And shame on the rest of us. We have failed as a peoples in history.
- smashah 8mo agoOf course, the Epsteinists have woken up and are now in a downvote spree.
- _HMCB_ 8mo agoThe downtrodden have become the oppressor.
- bambax 8mo agoAs is often the case.
- komali2 8mo agoI think about this a lot re: Israel. I had a conversation once with an Israeli where he was convinced "everyone is racist," but we're all too woke to admit it or something, or have some belief that racism is wrong but work to overcome this inherent thing. His arguments were all very zero sum, "if we didn't do it to them they'd do it to us," and from conversations with friends I'm thinking that what's happening here is the Israeli media apparatus focuses heavily on creating an "us vs them" mentality for diaspora Jewish people, which has now backfired to create a whole lot of Islamophobic and racist people. It's interesting because one may think that people with a historical trauma of one of the worst things ever carried out in human history would be the least likely to do something like that and the most likely to see the writing on the wall if something like that was about to happen again, but sadly that was too optimistic: the opposite happened.
- croes 8mo ago> "if we didn't do it to them they'd do it to us," And he didn’t think that Hamas could use the same lame excuse for their terror?
- namlem 8mo agoPeople with historical trauma are far more likely to inflict further wrongs than people without historical trauma. This is the case for individual trauma too. It has always been this way.
- mbix77 8mo agoAccountability has gone out of the window a long time. The only way it will come back is when the people fight back.
- tuwtuwtuwtuw 8mo agoMany of us are waiting for the people in the US to start taking their responsibility seriously.
- pms 8mo agoBy buying US products, using US-based media, and adopting US narratives? That's a part of the problem. This world is lacking multilateralism.
- xyzal 8mo agoIn case you wished to support legal efforts against Israeli soldiers accused of war crimes. https://www.hindrajabfoundation.org/donate https://www.hindrajabfoundation.org/donate
- seymores 8mo agoAwesome technicalities aside, it is really hard to watch the non-sensical violence and destructions when nobody is held accountable.
- derkan48 8mo agoThe place where humanity dies. Only a terrorist organization does this.
- dplesh 8mo agoCreated a new account just to comment on this biased report. Either you a bot or you can't read
- yodsanklai 8mo agoWhat can we individually do to help the people in Gaza, but even more broadly with human rights issues. Basically, to whom give our money to?
- severine 8mo agohttps://gaza-verified.org/ https://gaza-verified.org/
- yodsanklai 8mo agoAny risk of being accused of funding terrorism by the US if I donate there?
- propagandist 8mo agoThere are other efforts if you don't want to do direct donations. See Connecting Gaza (Rabbi Mivasair). There's also the Sameer Project. Nothing helps as much as speaking out vigorously and unambiguously though and without equivocation. We have to stop killing Palestinians first.
- AtlasBarfed 8mo ago[flagged]
- YeGoblynQueenne 8mo agoMods, can you look at this comment and maybe unflag it? It has some snarky language ("armchair critics") but it doesn't seem to contain anything flaggable and it provides important context, namely what I take to be the perspective from the pro-Israeli side. I for one am very curious to know what that this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47147359 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47147359
- dplesh 8mo agoI like Forensic Architecture’s work in general and I think this report is valuable as a micro-level reconstruction of a specific incident. That said, I think a lot of the HN discussion is treating it as if it captures the broader complexity of the conflict and I’m not sure thats what it can realistically do, at most, it leaves a lot of room for speculations - speculations which are fed by already existing bias of the reader (or so I see in the comments). A few gaps that matter if we’re trying to reason beyond the single event: Framing / conclusion baked in: terms like “executions” and “concealment” may ultimately be correct, but they’re also strong legal/moral claims that can bias interpretation unless the alternative hypotheses are seriously stress-tested. Its a dead giveaway of the writers bias. From this point on it looks like most biased readers do not try to critically tackle the reports claims. Limited “steelman” of operational context - without full access to military comms, ISR feeds, ROE, intel context, and command decisions in real time, it’s hard to evaluate what soldiers believed they were responding to (even if they were wrong, negligent, or violating orders). Its a known practice that Hamas militants travel undercover using civilian/emergency vehicles - I think its really pathetic this report does not analyze nor even addresses this claim. This is not being objective, and most of you guys here are too critical-thinking to miss this one out (or is it a bot swamp here? i really dont know). Evidence asymmetry - open-source reconstructions can be rigorous, but they inherently rely on what’s available (videos/audio/witness accounts). That’s different from having the complete internal dataset that would settle key disputes. I know this is the best effort available, but still, it leaves a lot of room for speculation. My expectations of FA were higher than that. Conflation risk - a brutal case study can be an important data point, but it’s not automatically a comprehensive model of the war or the incentives/constraints on both sides. “Here’s a detailed claim about what happened at Tel al-Sultan on that night.” would be a correct title for this report. Curious what you think: what specific pieces of primary data would most change your confidence/speculations here? (e.g., full comms logs, drone video, ROE brief for that unit, chain-of-command timeline, etc.)
- michalu 8mo agoI'm surprised such news and we have to read it from "dropsitenews.com"
- the_origami_fox 8mo agoUnfortunately this article and the conversation here is taken in the context of the entirety of Israel is bad, the whole military war against Hamas and its patrons was bad, and that there is a genocide in Gaza. It leaves little room to have meaningful conversations about difficult conditions in the war and whether soldiers acted incorrectly or not and if they should be tried or not with regards to this single incident.
- tovej 8mo agoHow does the fact that Israel is committing a genocide prevent anyone from discussing prosecuting the soldiers? That makes no sense.
- pfannkuchen 8mo agoHas anyone thought much about the impact of living in a group with a strong shared mythology? That is very rare among modern people, to the extent that we may have a hard time relating to it or reasoning about the impact it has on people’s moral sentiments and behaviors. Or at least it’s hard to see the one we do live in in a “this is water” kind of way, and we may have a hard time reasoning about the differences that different “waters” produce. Like if you grow up living inside the Star Wars mythology and suddenly you get a chance to fight The Empire, do you do it? Do you really care if people outside the Shared Mythos Group (TM) disagree with you doing it? (Note that I’m not saying anyone in this framing is “The Empire”, I’m just using the Star Wars mythology as a familiar example of a mythic framing)