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Sick of smart TVs? Here are your best options
- deafpolygon 10mo agotl;dr: don’t connect it to a network, and/or use a computer monitor.
- ToucanLoucan 10mo agoYup. Works great. All things equal I'd prefer just not buying a damn Smart TV to begin with, but absent that as a realistic option (every 4K TV I've ever seen is smart) I'll happily settle with them never seeing one byte of Internet.
- eightnoneone 10mo agoI’m in the same camp. The next escalation is defending against a TV scanning for, and joining unprotected neighbor networks to “phone home.” It’s a thing.
- jonnrb 10mo agoI mean yeah or they include a 5G modem because the ads are so lucrative. But then we can start discussing how to cut the red wire to disarm your spy rectangle.
- kotaKat 10mo agoThat one I’m starting to lean on getting closer to happening because we now have 5G RedCap out there for the ‘cheaper’ moderate-speed IoT data market. https://about.att.com/blogs/2025/5g-redcap.html https://about.att.com/blogs/2025/5g-redcap.html https://www.t-mobile.com/news/network/5g-redcap-powering-smart-devices-with-smarter-5g https://www.t-mobile.com/news/network/5g-redcap-powering-sma... Wouldn’t surprise me to see modems and eSIMs and embedded PCB antennas some day down the line.
- ToucanLoucan 10mo agoImagine if we could put this kind of innovation to work to solve actual problems and not find ways to bypass people attempting to not have capitalism screaming at them 24/7 to buy things.
- anonym29 10mo agoBet this is easy to fool with a fake/honeypot open network with a high rssi that blocks all traffic except the initial captive portal / connectivity check.
- dr_coffee 10mo agoThe article lists several manufacturers of 4k dumb tv’s
- ToucanLoucan 10mo agoThe article also says why they suck: > Dumb TVs sold today have serious image and sound quality tradeoffs, simply because companies don’t make dumb versions of their high-end models. On the image side, you can expect lower resolutions, sizes, and brightness levels and poorer viewing angles. You also won’t find premium panel technologies like OLED. If you want premium image quality or sound, you’re better off using a smart TV offline. Dumb TVs also usually have shorter (one-year) warranties.
- cgh 10mo agoYeah, Sceptre's site shows a bunch of dumb TVs that max out at HDMI 2.0, 4K/60Hz. Basically, they are ten years out of date.
- imp0cat 10mo agoSome of the advice is a bit weird though. Get a 4k HDR TV and then connect it to an antenna? I mean, why do you even need a 4k HDR TV in that case? Not to mention disabling the smart/ad features is an option on some smart tvs (ie. Sony).
- jonnrb 10mo agoSomeone should start a blog where it's all clickbait titles and the articles are all once sentence with the obvious resolution to the bait.
- jeremy151 10mo agoMy work health insurance recently offered a free scale and blood pressure monitor, I thought that's a nice perk, I'll use that, so I ordered with the intent of never using their app, just using it for my own tracking. The first time I used it, I got an email from my insurance company congratulating me and giving me suggestions. Both devices have a cellular modem in them, and arrived paired to my identity. I destroyed them and threw them in a dumpster like that Ron Swanson gif. All to say, little cellular modems and a small data plan are likely getting cheap enough it's worth being extra diligent about the devices we let into our homes. Probably not yet to the point of that being the case on a tv, but I could certainly see it getting to that point soon enough.
- aquir 10mo agoHoly shit! I would’ve done the same! This is pure evil! I guess the box never had this info on it
- anonym29 10mo agoI'd have tried to disassemble it, locate the SIM card or cellular modem, and see if it could be used for other traffic. A wireguard tunnel fixes the privacy problem, and I can always use more IP addresses and bandwidth. Until people start abusing these "features", they will not go away.
- tzs 10mo agoBe very very careful if you do that. The data plans on some embedded modems are quite different from consumer plans. They are specifically designed for customers who have a large number of devices but only need a small amount of bandwidth on each device. These plans might have a very low fixed monthly cost but only include a small data allowance, say 100 KB/month. That's plenty for something like a blood pressure monitor that uploads your results to your doctor or insurance company. If you are lucky that's a hard cap and the data plan cuts off for the rest of the month when you hit it. If you are unlucky that plan includes additional data that is very expensive. I've heard numbers like $10 for each additional 100 KB. I definitely recall reading news articles about people who have repurposed a SIM from some device and using it for their internet access, figuring that company would not notice, and using it to watch movies and download large files. Then the company gets their bill from their wireless service provider, and it turns out that on the long list of line items showing the cost for each modem, a single say $35 000 item really stands out when all the others are $1. If you are lucky the company merely asks you to pay that, and if you refuse they take you to civil court where you will lose. (That's what happened in the articles I remember reading, which is how they came to the public's attention). If you unlucky what you did also falls under your jurisdiction's "theft of services" criminal law. Worse, the amount is likely above the maximum for misdemeanor theft of services so it would be felony theft of services.
- maurits 10mo ago"We, and our 226 partners use cookies and similar methods to recognize visitors"
- pandemic_region 10mo agoThis
- mrweasel 10mo agoHow can you as a publisher not look at that an not go: "Seems a bit much". Fine that you need to run ads and maybe partner with someone to sell those ads, but 226 of them?
- deafpolygon 10mo agoIt’s just a modern-day MLM scam.
- aquir 10mo agoDon’t ever connect your TV to the internet?
- M95D 10mo agoThey nag.
- anonym29 10mo agoThis must be a very new or not universal feature. I have an Element E4AA70R 70" 4K UHD HDR10 Roku TV I picked up in mid-2023 for well below $1000. It has never once been connected to the internet, and it doesn't nag me.
- M95D 10mo agoI rented an apartment that had an LG. It showed a FOMO-inducing popup every week.
- anonym29 10mo agoAny information on model number so people can compare, learn from your experience, etc?
- matheusmoreira 10mo agoMight still be possible to jailbreak LG TVs. Not sure what the quality of the homebrew TV firmware situation is like though. Maybe not stable enough for family use.
- RajT88 10mo agoI have an LG C3. The old jailbreak no longer works. I keep avoiding the upgrade to keep the possibility open. At some point they force upgrade your firmware.
- guerrilla 10mo agoMy Phillips 65" doesn't. I just have it connected to my old PC via HDMI. Don't need any smart features.
- AlecSchueler 10mo agoDon't bring one into your house?
- wkjagt 10mo agoThe article goes into that option.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- teeray 10mo agoTV Manufacturers: “oh no!” *proceeds to remove all dumb TVs from the market*
- AlecSchueler 10mo agoThere's a second hand market.
- asdff 10mo agoFor now. Try getting a good CRT today. Most all the good ones were sent to the dump.
- AshamedCaptain 10mo agoSpoiler: this is Ars Technica. Obviously they suggest you to instead get an Apple TV so that you send your data to Apple and watch Apple ads instead (with the only argument being that "so far they do less ads").
- flux3125 10mo agoFunny how the article itself is an ad
- karmakaze 10mo agoAdsTechnica now.
- shlip 10mo agoYup, from the Apple TV article linked in the article[1]: > According to its privacy policy, the company gathers usage data, such as “data about your activity on and use of” Apple offerings, including “app launches within our services…; browsing history; search history; [and] product interaction.” [...] transaction information, account information (“including email address, devices registered, account status, and age”), device information (including serial number and browser type), contact information (including physical address and phone number), and payment information (including bank details). Yeah, sure, that's privacy, Ars. [1]https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/all-the-ways-apple-tv-boxes-do-and-mostly-dont-track-you/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/all-the-ways-apple-t...
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoLet’s see where to start? 1. Email address - you have to use an email address to have an Apple account. How are they not going to have your email? 2. Devices registered - you mean when you log into your device, they keep track of your logged in devices! 3. Transaction history - they keep track of what you bought from them! Must I continue? Every single piece of data that you named is required to do business with them.
- valleyer 10mo agoSceptre is not in fact "a Wal-Mart brand" but rather an independent company. https://www.sceptre.com https://www.sceptre.com Westinghouse TVs are made by a company licensing the brand, not a "Pittsburgh-headquartered company". These seem like easy mistakes to avoid.
- csdreamer7 10mo agoThis is really poor research on their part.
- Animats 10mo ago> "Below are the brands I’ve identified as most likely to have dumb TVs available for purchase online as of this writing." That just has to be an LLM at work.
- 1970-01-01 10mo agoIt's a failed article IMHO. It's to the point that the article should be pulled and corrected. None, as in zero TVs are made in the USA. They haven't been made in the USA for many decades. I HATE to say it, but an LLM would have given a better researched article.
- bityard 10mo agoAnd Emerson has for a LONG time been just an American brand on the cheapest Chinese electronics your money can buy. The whole article is pretty terrible.
- hypercube33 10mo agoThat said my Dynex TV from like 2008 won't die so my agreement with my wife to replace it can't kick in for a 75" OLED TV...someday. Thing has a decent panel FHD and 120hz and you can turn the smoothing crap off and it's definitely a dumb TV
- itomato 10mo agoTo say nothing of the the ads..
- shlip 10mo agoOther options than the suggested Apple TV route, include pihole (adblock), kodi, openelec (opensource media players).
- HiroProtagonist 10mo agoPi-hole
- mr_mitm 10mo agoI have a fire tv and run adguard, which does the same thing as pihole, and I can barely tell it's on. It may block some tracking, but I get an increasing amount of ads in the fire tv GUI, not to speak of YouTube ads. Sometimes I wonder if the people recommending pihole actually tried it. You get much better value out of ublock, smarttube, and so on.
- ProllyInfamous 10mo agoThis is a great suggestion. I've run two on my local network for about five years: pi#1) My personal DNS resolver, which I manually configure on each device. pi#2) The much less restrictive DNS resolver which my DHCP server automatically issues to all other network clients, including all phones and IoT [0] Individual hosts can then manually configure their DNS to resolve to the local network router (or third-party DNS), which effectively bypasses both PiHoles (for that device, only). [0] There is a method to use a firewall to capture all outbound DNS and force routing through PiHole (ifsense? I don't know), which may be necessary for hard-coded DNS-IPs. I do not know how to do this but it's not necessary on my network.
- lazyeye 10mo agoOften devices will have the DNS server hard-coded and never connect to the pihole DNS server. This is not just to avoid ad-blocking but to make the DNS more reliable and avoiding having lots of potential support issues around faulty DNS.
- encom 10mo agoI've never used pihole, but on any decent router you can intercept outgoing udp to port 53, and redirect it to a destination of your choosing. DNS-over-HTTP ruined that however.
- jqpabc123 10mo agoHow I break free from Smart TVs ("smart" for the manufacturer but very dumb for the user). Buy a cheap smart TV and run it in "store mode". Brightness and saturation will probably be maxed out but with a cheap TV, it looks more like "normal" on a more expensive model. Hint: The main difference between cheap and expensive in some cases --- the color adjustment range is limited by software on the cheaper models. Currently using a Hisense 4k model from Costco connected to a small mini PC --- Windows or Linux, your preference. The TV functions as nothing but a dumb display. Use a small "air mouse" for control. On screen keyboard as needed. Use a Hauppauge USB tuner for local digital broadcasts. I use software called DVB Viewer to view local channels and IPTV. A browser with VPN for streaming in some cases. In every case, I maintain full control of my data and the ability to block ads as I see fit.
- gear54rus 10mo ago> Buy a cheap smart TV Why does it have to be cheap? What if I want a killer panel without all the bs? > Use a small "air mouse" for control An alternative is something like 'unified remote' on it, then you can even type from your phone without any pain. > A browser with VPN for streaming in some cases. There is a missing piece for me here. A magic 'send my PC browser tab to this other PC connected to the TV' button. Not sure if something like this exists. It would be ideal to send all the browser context with cookies etc so that you are logged in too and can just start playing whatever you found on PC. Any for of cast is not an option, rendering has to happen on the TV PC box.
- jqpabc123 10mo agoWhy does it have to be cheap? It doesn't have to be --- but you may be wasting your money if you run in "store mode". As noted above, "store mode" will usually max out the brightness, saturation and contrast while removing user control. This looks pretty "normal" with cheaper models. More expensive ones can become overbearing. It appears to me that in some cases, the difference between cheap and more expensive is mainly the color adjustments. In order to take advantage of economies of scale, they may use the exact same screen panel on multiple different models but limit the cheaper ones in software so it doesn't look as "bright" and "eye catching" in the store as their more expensive "killer" model.
- amelius 10mo agoUnfortunately cars are becoming like smart TVs in this respect.
- anonym29 10mo agoIt's not feasible for everyone, but between grocery delivery services, telehealth, etc - if you work remotely anyway, it may be surprisingly feasible to get rid of your car altogether and only Uber/Lyft as needed, at least until robotaxis expand into your area at a fraction of the price of traditional ride-hailing apps.
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoI work remotely, my gym is downstairs as well as a convenience store with some fresh (overpriced) items, a bar and an (overpriced) restaurant. My barber and grocery store is a $9 Uber Ride each way. So I could get away with a car easily where I live now. My wife and I have been down to one car since Covid. But when I was in the burbs if metro Atlanta where everything wasn’t so close, it would have been over $100 easy going from one side to the other or basically anywhere besides the grocery store. My car insurance is only $176 a month for my wife and I. It doesn’t make sense not to have a car, even if you include the minor maintenance on a car that would be hardly ever driven. Even at a theoretical $400 car payment + $176 in insurance, it still easy to come out ahead.
- asdff 10mo agoOnly a $9 ride in 2025? What is that 1-2 miles? Just bike.
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoYes because it’s completely safe to bike everywhere and how would I bring the groceries back? I live in a tourist area where there are a lot of drivers causing the prices to be low. I noticed it in Las Vegas too. The only reason I know is I use Uber to run errands close by when my wife has the car on the weekends.
- DrPhish 10mo agoJust use a commercial signage display
- amundskm 10mo agoI looked into this. If I am remembering correctly the price was higher. It is just easier to connect a mini PC to an hdmi port and bypass all of the built in TV functionality.
- sn 10mo agoYes, the price is higher, maybe partially because it's not ad-subsidized. I was happy to pay it, this is what I bought: https://www.sharp.eu/sharp-nec-multisync-e868 https://www.sharp.eu/sharp-nec-multisync-e868 There's historical speculation that a smart TV could connect to an open wireless access point, or more realistically, that it refuses to operate without internet access, perhaps after a certain number of power on hours.
- gbear605 10mo agoHow'd you wind up buying it? All the options like that I can find start with "Get a Quote".
- amundskm 10mo agoI have had an old PC hooked up to the hdmi port of an old TV for years and it works exactly as I want. I have full control and don't have to deal with smart tv ads.
- lucasRW 10mo agoAren't private DNS or PiHoles a good enough compromise ?
- MattTheRealOne 10mo agoThat can block some trackers, but does not block ads or “suggested” content. There are also some devices that have hardcoded DNS settings that bypass any local network DNS settings.
- Marsymars 10mo ago> There are also some devices that have hardcoded DNS settings that bypass any local network DNS settings. You can intercept those as long as they're not using DoH/DoT.
- Simulacra 10mo agoI gave up on televisions about 10 years ago, they were all slow as molasses in January, underpowered, with atrocious interfaces. Nothing fluid or positive about any of them. I've got a 30 inch iMac in the bedroom that we watch everything on, much better than a television. I would be interested in purchasing a 52 inch iMac, hang on the wall, has all the media sharing and everything that televisions fail so much at.
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoBuy a Roku TV, never connect it to the internet, set it to come on on the HDMI channel your AppleTV is connected to and you get a fast fluid user experience.
- jrm4 10mo agoRight - I'm wondering why this article is so important and maybe I haven't seen enough intrusive "smart" TV's -- but is it not the case that for the vast majority of smart TVs, you can still just connect whatever to the HDMI (e.g. a computer) and keep it on that? Mine are Roku's, but I feel like the Samsungs et al are the same?
- fn-mote 10mo agoThe point is what if you DON’T just connect something to bypass all the slowness. Maybe in a tech forum everybody has done it, but certainly not out in the “real world”.
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoYour choices are 1. Spend money. AppleTV and the Nvidia Shield have the best hardware followed by high end Roku devices. 2. Use a computer. That’s a horrible experience.
- xnx 10mo agoTerrible article, but a good topic. You can get rid of homescreen ads on Google(/Android/Chromecast?) TV with a custom launcher like Projectivity: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spocky.projengmenu&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spocky.pro...
- tormeh 10mo agoWhat I'd really like is a TV with DisplayPort. How is this not a thing? IIRC you cannot buy a display with DP that's larger than 45 inches, give or take - they just don't exist. I think this is really weird. Like, I'd pay an extra $100 for that port, but I'm just not allowed to have it.
- EnPissant 10mo agoWhy would you want such a thing? HDMI 2.1 does HDR 4k @ 120hz without compression. The entire TV ecosystem uses HDMI. If you want to connect a PC to a TV they always have at least 1 HDMI out, and some have a couple.
- willis936 10mo agoOh, I know this one. It was recently on the HN front page. Open source software stacks are locked out of high end pixel clocks. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46220488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46220488
- MarsIronPI 10mo agoBecause HDMI 2.1 uses a proprietary protocol that's not implemented in any free OS[0]. If you want to use HDMI 2.1 features right now, your only option is to use a non-free OS like Windows or MacOS. [0]: This came up recently with Valve: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46220488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46220488
- no_wizard 10mo agofrom a purely technical point of view i do wish HDMI 2.1 was able to gain traction. On a couple of things I own that do actually use it, its an actual noticeable improvement and I feel does a better job than DisplayPort. Granted, I suspect quite strongly the next wave of consolidation is going to continue the trend of being around USB-C, since the spec should have the bandwidth to handle any video / audio protocols for quite some time. Matter of time until that happens IMO. It also lets you have a single cord that could theoretically be your power cord and your A/V cord.
- AndrewKemendo 10mo agoDont buy a TV?
- encom 10mo agohttps://theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesnt-own-a-televisi-1819565469/ https://theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesn...
- AndrewKemendo 10mo agoHaha yeah that’s a good one, fair Obligatory David Foster wallce just to add some gen x post structuralist nihilism https://youtu.be/A_ujr9gi3wk https://youtu.be/A_ujr9gi3wk
- JayGuerette 10mo agoI'm confused. Every TV is a dumb TV if you don't give it your Wifi password.
- dawnerd 10mo agosome will yell at you with a notification until you give in and connect it.
- Retric 10mo agoReturn it as unfit for service.
- _dan 10mo agoYeah I have a couple of recent Samsung OLEDs and they're fine without an internet connection despite reports that they wouldn't be. If I press one of the annoying streaming service buttons on the remote it'll give me a setup popup which needs to be dismissed, otherwise they work fine, albeit without any built in streaming support. I'd read reports that Q-Symphony (audio from the TV speakers and soundbar simultaneously) wouldn't work, but it does. I stuck an OSMC (https://osmc.tv/ https://osmc.tv/) box to the back of both of them so they can play stuff from my NAS. They're not the cheapest solution and I realise Kodi/XBMC on which they're based isn't everyone's jam (I grew up with XBMC on an Xbox so it is very much mine) - but they play everything, have wifi, HDMI-CEC, integrated RF remote, and work out of the box. Model numbers if anyone cares: Samsung QE65S95C, Samsung QE77S95F. I believe S95, S90 and S85 (at least up to F) are all very similar so they should all work but ofc ymmv.
- drnick1 10mo agoThis OSMC box looks interesting, but does it allow to run arbitrary programs like a plain Linux box? What I have in mind here are things such as VacuumTube (YoutubeTV front end), a Web browser to stream from various online sources, etc. I found KODI (as running on Linux) far too restrictive when it comes to streaming from the Internet, and the add ons to be terrible. (In particular the YouTube add-on requires an API key registered with Google, which makes it a far worse proposition than using VacuumTube anonymously.)
- taxmeifyoucan 10mo agoFor a hacker news article, it misses the crucial option - hacking a smart TV! I have LG OLED jailbroken using rootmy.tv, it was pretty trivial. It's basically a linux computer with a huge screen, you can customize it, SSH into it, map any commands to the remote, etc. Before I only used monitor, simple DP/HDMI input is all I wanted. But being able to take full control of the tv and connect it with other devices in the house I would normally get Rpi for is pretty convenient!
- throwaway63467 10mo agoIs there much you can do with it? Does it still work as before, does it still have a GUI? Sounds really cool.
- montymintypie 10mo agoI think the parent commenter is perhaps a little over-selling the LG rooting. It is definitely root, you can write whatever you want on the filesystem (at your peril), and theoretically do whatever you want, but the homebrew exploit launches a bit later in the boot chain than you'd want (so blocking update nags isn't quite reliable), and a lot of the inner system things are proprietary and require reverse engineering to extend. It's the same system software, just with root capacity. That being said, there's still a bunch of nice homebrew: - Video screensavers ala Apple TV - DVD logo screensaver - Adfree (and sponsorblock-integrated and optional shorts-disabling) Youtube - Remote button remapping (Netflix button now opens Plex for me) - Hyperion (ambilight service that controls an LED strip behind the TV) - A nice nvidia shield emulator for game streaming from my PC with low latency - VNC server (rarely useful, but invaluable when it is) Sponsorblock and remote remapping are killer features for me, and the rest is just really pleasant to have.
- rssoconnor 10mo agoI used my rooted TV to root my PS4. I'm not even joking. https://youtu.be/NzBBfGnAWM0 https://youtu.be/NzBBfGnAWM0
- 10mo ago
- PaulHoule 10mo agoAs a Plex user I'd recommend a used last-gen game console as a TV source. In my AV room upstairs I've had an XBOX ONE S for a long time and more recently I got a PS4 Pro for the spare room downstairs -- both at Gamestop. I have some games for both of them but I am more likely to game on Steam, Steam Deck or mobile. Every Android-based media player I've had tried just plain sucks, the NVIDIA Shield wasn't too bad but at some point the controller quit charging. You can still get a game console with a built-in Blu-Ray player too and it's nice to have one box that does that as well as being an overpowered for streaming. I have a HDHomeRun hooked up to a small antenna pointed at Syracuse which does pretty well except for ABC, sometimes I think about going up on the roof and pointing the small one at Binghamton and pointing a large one at Syracuse but I am not watching as much OTA as I used to. It's nice though being able to watch OTA TV on either TV, any computer, tablets, phones, as well as the Plex Pass paying for the metadata for a really good DVR side-by-side with all my other media. As for TVs I go to the local reuse center and get what catches my eye, my "monitor" I am using right now is a curved Samsung 55 inch, I just brought home a plasma that was $45 because I always wanted a plasma. I went through a long phase where people just kept dropping off cheap TVs at my home, some of which I really appreciated (a Vizio that was beautifully value engineered) and some of which sucked. [1] [1] ... like back in the 1980s everybody was afraid someone would break into your home and take your TV but for me it is the other way around
- Marsymars 10mo agoWhat does a last-gen game console offer over an Apple TV if you don't care about games?
- joombaga 10mo agoA DVD/Blu-ray/CD player and a digital TV tuner.
- PaulHoule 10mo agoI think it costs less too, whereas a new or used PS5 costs more but doesn't add a lot of value -- there are roughly 15 exclusive games for the PS5 so it's not compelling if you have a gaming PC, but it is a nice package to sit next to your TV that does a lot and can stream games from the gaming PC. Personally I like a PS4 controller better than the Apple TV thing.
- QuiEgo 10mo agoThe is the modern version of "ditch your cable company's horrible DVR for a TiVO". What's old is new again, sadly.
- j45 10mo agoIt's always best long term to attach your own smarts to a tv. That can be as simple as an Apple / Android TV, or more.
- ynac 10mo agoI've been on projectors for 10 years. Never even had to own a smart TV.
- Dementor430 10mo agoIt's a nice starting point. There are other options such as used Flanders Scientific or Sony Studio Screens. But those are usually rather expensive. I would recommend to buy them on Ebay if anything.
- disambiguation 10mo agoI'm surprised no one has mentioned that KDE revived the Plasma Bigscreen project. No idea on the ETA but assuming all goes well I can see it becoming my daily driver very quickly. https://plasma-bigscreen.org/get/ https://plasma-bigscreen.org/get/
- pabs3 10mo agoPresumably locked bootloaders on smart TVs are a problem that would block usage of that project?
- moltopoco 10mo agoSteamOS/Bazzite also makes it pretty easy to integrate flatpaks into its gamepad-oriented UI. I hope that leads to the development of more apps that work with a remote control or gamepad, which would then also work on Plasma Bigscreen.
- IshKebab 10mo agoThe problem with open source TV solutions like that is that they never support legal streaming platforms like Netflix, Disney+ and so on.
- Acrobatic_Road 10mo agoI'm failing to see a problem with that.
- simonmales 10mo agoSavage, but accurate. But I argue for these projects to have a long tail, they need revenue. A few have tried by selling hardware, but it never lands mainstream enough.
- Spivak 10mo agoLive sports / tv is the one you can't really work around when your device doesn't have DRM support.
- komali2 10mo ago> Any display or system you end up using needs HDCP 2.2 compliance to play 4K or HDR content via a streaming service or any other DRM-protected 4K or HDR media, like a Blu-ray disc. This plus all the notes below about how various apps won't stream 4k in various circumstances depending on platform or web browser just lend further credence to the idea that it's best to say fuck it and deploy a jellyfin instance and sail the high seas. Or at least rip blu rays. I mean why would I pay all these streaming services for such subpar service?
- mastazi 10mo agoI have the exact setup shown towards the end of the article - HTPC and K400 keyboard/touchpad. I have tried all "smart" platforms in the past, and this setup is an order of magnitude better in everything. I used to have issues where a specific content provider doesn't have an app for my type of smart TV[1], this is no longer an issue because I just use a browser to access anything. And I can browse the web when I'm not watching something[2] (in fact I'm using my HTPC right now as I write this comment). The only change I had to make starting from a "standard" Linux UI is bumping the screen zoom level to 150%. This may vary depending on your TV size and how far your couch is from your TV. Building the HTPC was very cheap, I just boughs a horizontal form-factor case, and used spare "donor" parts coming from our household PCs after upgrades. [1][2]For comparison, the only streaming platform that had all apps I wanted was Apple TV, but that one doesn't have a browser.
- athrun 10mo agothe big issue with this setup is that most streaming platforms won’t give you multi-channel audio via the browser on Linux systems. Some might also limit the video quality. On Windows, it used to be different, but lately I’ve observed the same—ex: Netflix seems to limit the streaming quality even with Edge.
- asdff 10mo agoIf you really care about fidelity you’d skip the streaming and either have a collection of new and used blurays, rip blu rays from the library, or pirate bluray rips from other people. No one offers actual fidelity on the streaming platforms. They consider cost to them to serve content and assume you don’t care enough to seek alternatives.
- tuna74 10mo agoSome movies like Avangers End Game are presented in 16X9 Dolby Vision on Disney+ vs 1X2.35 HDR10 on UHD Blu-ray. You can look up comparisons on Youtube if you want to. So it is not always the case that the UHD disk is better in all aspects.
- mrandish 10mo agoIf you already have a "smart TV" of some kind, one strategy is to block it from having Internet access at your router and then use an Android TV based streaming box/stick or other external source for all content (OTA tuner, 4K Blu-Ray player, game console, etc). It's pretty easy to side load apps like Kodi and SmartTube on Android TV (a YouTube client with ad blocking, other features and zillion UX improvements).
- robmsmt 10mo agoWhat’s wrong with never configuring the WiFi for it?
- Grazester 10mo ago...Not a damn thing. Makes you wonder if people on here connect their smart tv to the net just to find a complicated solution to make it dumb again. Someone is going to run in here talking about how smart TV's randomly connect themselves to wifi, which is absolutely nonsense. HN things I guess.
- gbear605 10mo agoIt depends on the manufacturer, but a lot of new ones show pop ups until you connect to a network
- aprilnya 10mo agoConnecting it to Wifi means you can use Airplay, Chromecast, Miracast..
- eggsome 10mo agoAre there any hobby projects to hack/replace the controller board to make a new/fancy TV into a dumb tv? Would be nice to be able to use a new OLED panel like that...
- bitwize 10mo agoThe cheat code is Sceptre dumb TVs from Wal-Mart's web site. I want Hackernews to know about this so that Sceptre and Wal-Mart can get sales and know that there's a substantial market for these devices, not shrug their shoulders and go "we may as well take these off the market and sell enshittified crap instead; it's not like our customers know or care about the difference."
- Marsymars 10mo agoI’d be in the market but walmart.ca doesn’t list any Sceptre TVs. (Nor does any other Canadian retailer.)
- stockresearcher 10mo agoI think they are selling off old stock and exiting the TV business. Searching various sites in the US shows only a basic 50” 4K TV. A few years ago, they had a very wide variety of offerings - I bought a 65” 4K dumb TV from them. Amazon (US) shows a wide variety of available-to-buy computer monitors, so that is probably their focus at the moment. It’s probably a lot more lucrative.
- pabs3 10mo agoHopefully this lawsuit will mean people can modify the software on their smart TVs; replace it with a Linux distro running KDE Bigscreen or similar. https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html
- aceazzameen 10mo agoWe're running a solution that isn't perfect and isn't for everyone. We have a nice Sony Android TV along with a pihole. But on the TV itself I installed f-droid and netguard. Netguard's UI sucks on a TV, but it's workable. I use it to block Internet access to everything including Google. Only a few streaming apps have internet access. There was some trial and error with a handful of dependencies too. If I need to update an app, I temporarily allow Google services access. All the streaming apps work well, except for HBO Max which takes a few minutes to load. I suspect it has a long timeout/retry count for something I'm blocking. But once it loads, it's fine. I also use a different and basic home launcher so we can open the apps we want immediately, without having to deal with shifting algorithm-based icons. But even if we use the Google launcher, it's mostly empty and free of ads because it can't connect. It does still capture what I recently watch though. Overall it's a decent experience, mainly because we're not being bombarded by more ad algorithms.
- symbogra 10mo agoMy wife and I have been wondering about exactly this question and are on the market for a new TV, and this list of options is really sad. 720p? 32"? Yeesh
- djmips 10mo agothere was a 55" 4K option but your point stands. Yeesh.
- chaostheory 10mo agoWill it be smart if you don’t connect it to the internet? Am I missing something?
- class3shock 10mo agoI'm less bothered by the ever present smart tv and more bothered that there is no way to just turn on the tv and go straight to input from a certain port. Would love to know TV's that just do that. My old Samsung constantly forces me to click through sources and out of smart features to get to the hdmi from my computer everytime I turn it on.
- wmf 10mo agoRoku has this feature.
- adambb 10mo agoLG (UT8000 at least) TVs have an option to default to last used input, that works reliably.
- Gigachad 10mo agoHDMI CEC should be able to to turn on TVs direct to the input. Sadly few desktops seem to support it.
- moltopoco 10mo agoThe Steam Machine will support CEC, hopefully other PC vendors will take note and adopt it.
- pabs3 10mo agoApparently "almost no PC GPU has hardware support for CEC" according to Arch. Wonder if that is outdated and modern GPUs do? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/HDMI-CEC https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/HDMI-CEC
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- aprilnya 10mo agoThis is still pretty much the case. There are ways to do it (i.e. adapters that sit between your HDMI cable and GPU) but it’s wonky.
- asdff 10mo agoIt isn’t even the smart tv prospect that concerns me with new tvs. My current TV is technically a smart TV but you can’t tell. It has never been connected to the internet. My concern is the framerate. Some of these TVs, even in the 1080p era, will turn a cinematic masterpiece into feeling like a cheap soap opera. I’m not even sure what to look for to avoid this issue. Limiting myself to maybe 48hz tvs?
- fwip 10mo agoYou just need to turn it off in the settings.
- guidedlight 10mo agoI’m fairly certain that Sony TV’s ask you where you want to use it as a Smart TV or a Dumb TV when setting it up.
- d--b 10mo agosays the blog with tens of ads and hundreds of trackers
- lanfeust6 10mo agoIs Ars going to install and run ads on your device, and view your locally stored information? No.
- bradley13 10mo agoI'm a huge fan of projectors. With large TVs, you have a huge black wall when you aren't watching. With a projector you can have a pull-down screen that disappears when you don't need it. Or leave it down - it's white, and a lot less visually intrusive.
- globular-toast 10mo agoThe only problem with projectors is there's not much choice if you're sensitive to DLP rainbow effect. I haven't tried one of the newer ones with a faster colour wheel, though. It means I've had to go JVC DLA projectors, but these are now ridiculously expensive and I can't see myself ever spending that much on, well, anything.
- bpye 10mo agoI am somewhat sensitive to the effect and have been okay with an X3000i. If I scan my eyes across a black screen with white text, I can still perceive the effect - but it's nowhere near as bad as some older DLP projectors.
- sod 10mo agoYes, projectors with 3LCD tech is what you are looking for. They produce all 3 colors at once via 3 distinct lcds inside the chassis and mix them ahead of time. There are a few to choose from, but they all cost above 3000. The reason why projectors don't use a single rgb lcd (like monitors) to produce the color is the same why all sub 5000$ projectors use pixel shift to fake 4k resolution: Too much light is blocked by the lcd itself if the individual pixels become too small.
- kazinator 10mo ago> Westinghouse’s dumb TVs max out at 32 inches and 720p resolution Then why mention the pitiful shit? That describes a LCD TV I had in 2004, one of the first. > but some of them also have a built-in DVD player. Well, that changes everything; I want one now, LOL ...
- kazinator 10mo agoAbout commercial displays: > A spokesperson from Panasonic Connect North America told me that digital signage displays are made to be on for 16 to 24 hours per day and with high brightness levels to accommodate “retail and public environments.” Some TV's err on the side of being too dim for daytime viewing in a bright room; that could only be a plus. If it's too bright in a way that can't be turned down, you could always DIY a tinted shield to put over it for evening viewing. We used to use things like that over CRT monitors once upon a time. > Their rugged construction and heat management systems make them ideal for demanding commercial use, but these same features can result in higher energy consumption, louder operation, and limited compatibility with home entertainment systems. I've never heard a commercial flat screen display make a sound. > Panasonic’s representative also pointed out that real TVs offer consumer-friendly features for watching TV, like “home-optimized picture tuning, simplified audio integration, and user-friendly menu interfaces.” That person doesn't understand how this would be used at all. The user hooking up their streaming box to the display panel only needs the panel to do video (e.g. via HDMI cable). The display is not involved in audio at all. I use a 1/8" plug stereo cable going straight from the Android box to a pair of RCA jacks in the speaker system. Bluetooth could be used but the wire has lower latency, 100% reliability, and not using BT means that the speakers are available for pairing if someone wants to use them from a phone. They have a remote control that can switch between two copper line inputs, and BT. The TV's volume is kept at 1%; it would make no difference if it had no speakers.
- rock_artist 10mo agoThe more I think about it I wonder why Chinese TVs using Android based TV don’t have Some GrapheneTV or basic trimmed down Android aimed to be “dumb”. Unlike phones, - if it should be air gapped then all you’d want is your HDMIs input and remote control to work. - nice to have: ADCs/DACs for analog AV input and audio out and any antenna input if available. - super nice to have: Bluetooth for passing audio out and maybe network (Ethernet, WiFi) stack if same. But assuming the goal is airgapped. There are less security concerns in general, You just want the Android TV to be lightweight and fast and don’t care it’s “stuck” in specific version or use closed blobs.
- jeroenhd 10mo agoThere's a lineageos template for Android TV. I don't think grapheneos will ever run on something like that (it doesn't even run on phones with ten times the security capabilities of TV SoCs) but alternative ROMs are available. There's also KDE Plasma if you want to go the non-Android route, though you'll struggle to find good support for that. One problem with that approach is that you'll lose access to DRM'd contents, so while the official Netflix/HBO/Prime apps will install on lineageos, their video quality will be terrible or they will refuse to work. There are a bunch of Google TV variants (brands like TCL and Philips) that will let you turn on "basic TV mode" (https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10408998?hl=en https://support.google.com/googletv/answer/10408998?hl=en), disabling pretty much everything other than displaying content. As for why the Chinese TVs don't have a dumb mode, I think it's because the Chinese market is full of devices crammed to the brim with smart features, so smart TVs are sort of expected these days.
- reacharavindh 10mo agoAm I missing something? I have a LG nano something TV that has many “smart” features, but I never let it connect to my WiFi ever. Since day 1 it has been hooked up to an AppleTV. Can I not buy any fancy smart TV in 2025 and use it as a dumb HDMI display for AppleTV?
- cosmic_ape 10mo agoSecond that. There were articles a year or two ago about TVs trying to connect to any open Wi-Fi they can find, without you asking them. But hopefully LG wouldn’t go that far.
- ileonichwiesz 10mo agoAt that point you just open up the back of the TV and drive a screwdriver into the WiFi chip.
- strangegecko 10mo agoGoodbye warranty
- dewey 10mo agoSame. I have not seen the interface of my TV for years (Only the input switching UI when switching between my Apple TV and Xbox). This really isp pretty much a "dumb tv" with a setup like this.
- Liquix 10mo agothe issue is that eventually SIM cards will be baked in to deliver ads and spyware; there will be no alternatives because everyone was fine with buying smart TVs and not connecting them to wifi. see: Android's recent transformation into a closed platform which no longer allows users to control devices they purchase. it's important to fight against trends like this loudly and vehemently while we still can.
- zeristor 10mo agoAbsurdly although I’m, currently paying for a BBC TV licence, I use an Apple TV but they have not, and will not provide UHD content for it on their streaming app. Either I can do the stupid thing and connect my LG TV to the network, or through various means download the UHD content, and therefore have to manage it, especially the last watched position, or forego it. Having ADHD, I never really watch to the end, and so rely so much on the saved position to resume.
- jan_nan 10mo agoTV devices are a hot mess to support from a streaming perspective, they each come with their own quirks that mean some perfectly-in-spec encoding and packaging techniques will result in a failed playback on some models of TV. Once a TV device _is_ supported, that support has to be maintained typically for more than a decade until usage of that model falls so low that dropping it from support can be justified. It would be prohibitively costly to produce per-device renditions so instead there is one generic rendition produced for "all smart TVs" and another one for "UHD capable smart TVs". Traditional TV manufacturers all work with the BBC to get their devices certified, which is a requirement for carrying the iPlayer app and comes with legal agreements that asset that a device _will_ be able to playback BBC content for as long as it's supported. Because Apple like to Think Differently, they opted not to align with the entire rest of the TV industry in standardising on MPEG-DASH spec. They instead require all developers to stream video using the HLS protocol. As UHD content on iPlayer is geared exclusively for smart TVs, and all the other smart TVs support MPEG-DASH, the UHD workflow simply never evolved the ability to target Apple's TV devices.
- anothernewdude 10mo agoAre dumb TVs rare? I've never bought one, just getting TVs when other people are finished with theirs, but I'm pretty sure every one I've owned has been a dumb TV. We just connect it to the PS4 and they've all been the same.
- kevin061 10mo agoA while ago I had a discussion with my friends that it is possible that in the future if 5G is sufficiently cheap, smart tvs come with a 5G SIM so they can force ads and updates even if you refuse to connect it to WiFi. I wonder if this will ever be a real thing. Either 5G, 6G or whatever comes next.
- Arbortheus 10mo agoWhat a horrid thought… You might be interested to read about the findings by Ruter, the publicly owned transport company for Oslo. They discovered their Chinese Yutong electric buses contained SIM cards, likely to allow the buses to receive OTA updates, but consequentially means they could be modified at any moment remotely. Thankfully they use physical SIMs, so some security hardening is possible. Of course, with eSIMs becoming more widespread, it’s not inconceivable you could have a SoC containing a 5G modem with no real way to disable or remove it without destroying the device itself. [1] https://ruter.no/en/ruter-with-extensive-security-testing-of-electric-buses https://ruter.no/en/ruter-with-extensive-security-testing-of...
- wiether 10mo agoChuck McGill was a visionary?
- burnt-resistor 10mo agoAnd it will require an uncovered camera and microphone, or it won't display an image. Sony TVs already come with "optional image optimization" cameras.
- JamesAdir 10mo agoSource about Sony?
- burnt-resistor 10mo agoYou could've just Googled. https://electronics.sony.com/tv-video/televisions/television-accessories/p/cmubc1 https://electronics.sony.com/tv-video/televisions/television... A family member's TV came with it.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- darkwater 10mo agoKeeping it practical and not purist, how do new smart TVs (mainly LG, it's the brand I like the most for the hardware) act with ads in a PiHole'd network? Does that block ads? Do they notice?
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- JodieBenitez 10mo ago> Best ways to find a dumb TV I did not give my TV network access. Works fine.
- idbehold 10mo agoManufacturers know people do this. The TV will attempt to connect to any open network (neighbors) and I'd be shocked if they haven't at least considered packaging them with 4G/5G antennas. You're gonna need a Faraday Cage.
- nickthegreek 10mo agoProvide any evidence at all that this is happening.
- JodieBenitez 10mo agoWell... I got lucky then: none of my 3 TVs from different brands (two of them being used as screens for computers) did this.
- bpye 10mo agoI have a projector, a BenQ X3000i, in my living room, with a retractable screen. It has the plus side of not needing a dedicated wall, but does perform poorly (vs a TV) if the room isn't darkened. Maybe eventually I'll tie it into my home automation with some smart curtains. It has low latency, will do 1080p 240Hz, 4k (pixel shift) 60Hz and HDR. Can even do 3D content if you really want... BenQ did include an Android TV stick in the box, but you can just not hook it up to the projector - problem solved.
- ZiiS 10mo agoThe fact they give you a half decent media PC whilst discounting the monitor in the hope you give them tracking and allow them to be a market gatekeeper; only needs to be mildly anoying in today's world. Just plug in whatever you want and ignore it.
- grvbck 10mo agoFor now. I can see a not-so-distant future where internet access is needed for "cloud AI" to enable full 8K resolution, or where Dolby Atmos/Eclipsa Audio/Amphi Hi-D has to be unlocked through an online account, or where "advanced" menu settings like color calibration are tied to a monthly subscription… Sure, there will probably be some alternatives from independent/smaller manufacturers but they will inevitably be based on older tech and/or standards, come with serious tradeoffs and so on.
- nephihaha 10mo agoI don't really watch TV now. Not scheduled TV anyway. Sometimes some sport in a bar or whatever. I do watch YouTube and some streaming services but old school TV never.
- rokoss21 10mo agoThe Vizio litigation is encouraging, but hardware-level hacking is still the most reliable way forward. Been running Linux on an old TV with HDMI-in for years - basically a dumb display with full control. For budget-conscious setup: even older plasma/LCD displays that predate the "smart" era are increasingly available secondhand. Pair with a Raspberry Pi or similar and you get a system you actually own.
- p1dda 10mo agoWhy not just buy a big monitor and use it to watch 'TV'?
- djoldman 10mo agoFor the tech-savvy, I'm not too worried about smart TVs. I just do this: > If you want premium image quality or sound, you’re better off using a smart TV offline. In the future, if they add e-sims, we'll just remove them or de-solder or whatever. The real risk is cars: if they start not working without cell network connections.
- scosman 10mo agoOffline smart TVs are great. As long as they support wake over CEC, they are close enough to a dumb display connected to an Apple TV. I let my latest LG TV on the network, but block internet access at the router. HomeKit integration (Siri turn off tv), Chromecast, Airplay, and other local services all work, without the ability for it to phone home.
- b-star 10mo agoI do this too, works great. Sometimes I cry remembering all the money I wasted on TV’s “smart” features but I’ll take the small win.
- sfilmeyer 10mo agoI feel like there's a bit of a jump from "tech-savvy" to de-soldering things on an expensive piece of home electronics. As it stands now, though, I agree that turning off the smart TV features seems to be the way to go for most people.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- djoldman 10mo agoHa, yea it's been awhile since I've done that. Although if I was annoyed enough I might take one apart.
- __MatrixMan__ 10mo ago> we'll just remove them or de-solder or whatever If we continue giving money to people who build malware into the products, the malware will eventually be baked in deeply enough that the rest of the device will refuse to operate if it can't phone home to the ministry of truth or wherever.
- mentos 10mo agoDon’t think it makes sense for Apple but would be cool to see them sell dumb TV screens to hook up to an Apple TV box.
- 1970-01-01 10mo agoWant to know the best option? GO USED. You can find a 50-60 inch dumb TV for a hundred dollars. No, it won't be UHD 4K, but it might be 3D, and it won't pester you to connect to Wi-Fi every time you use it.
- deltaburnt 10mo agoBasically locks you out of HDR, high frame rates, VRR, or (more importantly) new panel technology like OLED.
- 1970-01-01 10mo agoNope. https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850d https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x850d
- sllabres 10mo agoI am not a HIFI/TV aficionado, but the ACR [1] thing was new to me. I hope it is not yet important for me as I never allowed a TV access to my LAN/WLAN. But with smart devices using accessible open WLANs to transmit who knows. [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2409.06203 https://arxiv.org/abs/2409.06203 / https://arxiv.org/pdf/2409.06203 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2409.06203
- b8 10mo agoDon't connect to the wifi on the tv and just use a Nvidia Shield Pro or ugoos/Onn.
- wappieslurkz 10mo agoI just ignore all the smart features and never connect my smart TV to the internet, and I disconnected the WiFi antennas from the main board. I use an Apple TV to feed it live TV, series and movies via apps.
- DudeOpotomus 10mo agothis is the only way. Do not ever connect your new TV to the internet. Never, ever.
- mattacular 10mo ago1. buy any model that meets your specs (i like TCL) 2. setup a one time use wifi network with randomized SSID and password (hotspot from your phone works well) 3. connect your tv to it and update to latest software 4. delete the wifi config and reset that network (roll to new SSID and password) 5. connect an apple tv set top box and never use any of the tv features ever again
- MrMember 10mo agoSmart TVs are so user hostile now that this doesn't work for me personally anymore. Every TV I've seen recently always tries to get back to the "home" screen so they can funnel you into more ads and/or content that makes them money. If I have the TV set to the HDMI source for my connected HTPC, turn off the TV, and turn it back on again, it will be back on the TV's home screen. If I switch to an HDMI source that isn't currently outputting video it will switch back to the home screen in five seconds. I was at a friend's house over Thanksgiving and when he tried to navigate away from the home screen on his Vizio TV to a different HDMI input he got a confirmation dialog box with an ad embedded in it asking him "are you SURE you want to change inputs?" It's ridiculous. For now I spend the extra money for "digital display" TVs that are just dumb input for HDMI devices but I fear that someday that option will either disappear or fall significantly behind regular TVs in display technology.
- mattacular 10mo agoTry TCL. I just got a second one after 6 years with a previous model of theirs that was showing signs of death. On both this new (Google-based OS) and old one (Roku-based OS), I have done the steps I mentioned above. I wouldn't have bothered typing that up if it didn't work. Turning a HDMI device on wakes the TV and then it automatically selects that input. I've never been to the homescreen except by choice, and even then it is completely stock. Barebones, no ads - it has no internet to get any.
- MrMember 10mo agoThanks for the recommendation! I'll check them out.
- earthnail 10mo agoIt's interesting to read the praise for Apple TV here. I didn't like mine. My three years old Sony Bravia is really excellent, supports Chrome Cast, Airplay etc, has a great remote control, and a fast enough CPU that the apps don't lag. Everything is butter smooth. It's a thoroughly enjoyable experience. I had an Apple TV as well, but I don't use it anymore. And I otherwise only use Apple devices. But the Apple TV I just never got warm with.
- duxup 10mo agoI wish my apple TV could take a bunch of HDMI inputs and basically be my HDMI switch in the Apple TV interface.
- sryButLvLdUp 10mo ago[dead]
- qubex 10mo agoI have a 2010 Toshiba Regza TV that has never been connected to the internet and is from the time when “1080p” was the new hotness and there was a kerfuffle going on about 3D televisions. Lots of HDMI 1.2 (?) ports, and a lot of legacy connectors including a SCART for when I want to bring a tear to my eye by watching VHS tapes from my youth. Attached to a 3rd generation AppleTV that could take a round and not drop the line; a device still supported but also too ancient for the flamboyant new Liquid Glass UI. Also attached: a Raspberry Pi 4 with an external 8TB HD. Amongst other things it’s the authoritative node for my Resilio Sync mesh of media and ebooks across all my devices. I’m a happy camper. Newer stuff would feel like a downgrade. Couldn’t care less about 4K video. Never wilfully seen sought it out, unimpressed when I see it. I still go to the cinema regularly, alone. Something very deliberate about going to a place to pay a price to go into a specific space to do a specific thing. Pandering to second screen audiences has produced some of the most profoundly insulting media in living memory.
- HocusLocus 10mo agoHow come no one has suggested tiny screens and huge Fresnel lenses like Terry Gilliam's 'Brazil'? Is this the wrong thread? If you place the apparatus in front of a window to catch the afternoon sun, it would also harness solar energy in an exciting new way!